I Say "E-bike", You Say... - Sea Otter 2016

Apr 18, 2016
by Vernon Felton  
Sea Otter 2016 was awash in E-bikes. The things could be seen everywhere, zooming to and fro. There was even an E-bike race in which the peloton pedaled slow, lazy circles while barreling up the hills at something just below the speed of light. Countless cross-country racers, the kind of gaunt, ropy types who have clearly suffered through years of shitty interval training in an effort to become genuinely fast, wept bitter tears and shook angry fists at the motorized bicycles whilst raging about the end of the world. E-bikes have a way of eliciting that kind of reaction.

Unless, of course, you love E-bikes. After all, some people really are enraptured with the things. Me? I haven't formed an opinion. I haven’t ridden an E-bike yet…but I am intrigued by the shit storm they’ve created.

Hoping to get some clarity on the matter, we decided to ask Sea Otter attendees what they think of E-bikes.

Where do you stand on the subject? I say “E-bike”, you say….

Views: 23,914    Faves: 22    Comments: 6




MENTIONS: @vernonfelton / @influxproductions




441 Comments

  • + 109
 Even though my immediate answer is "NOOO!!", I also think ebikes have the possibility to open different areas of biking to people who due to a disability might have never thought possible. But as for me, i'll stick to pedaling...
  • + 184
 Do you really think that Specialized and all the other big players are flooding the market hoping to grab a few handicapped people into the bike market? Please ... the Magura dude said it best ... you say ebikes i say MONEY!
  • + 41
 I totally agree with you! I think its a great invention/development for people who else would not be able to reach trails or be on a MTB at all. But the only people I have seen so far on electric mountain bikes were dudes who are to lazy to pedal..
  • + 56
 How cool is it that Martin Ashton has been back on 2 wheels with the help of an E-Bike?!
  • + 149
 I'm sorry but ebikes are just electic motorbikes. They hold no place on the same trails we ride. you think we have issues with trails being closed because of mountain bikers......just wait till these things start showing up. No thanks.
  • + 71
 Yeah. The only problem is people with disabilities are the 0.0001% of potential riders.
And electric motor conversions have been available for years.

As the Magura guy said, it is all about the money. Short term money.

This same situation happened in the 70's80's in some parts of europe with mopeds.
Original mopeds were considered bicycles with motors, as they needed pedals to start.
No insurance. No license. No helmet.
15 years down the line, mopeds needed Insurance, License and Helmet.
A couple of years after, no one was buying mopeds anymore.

A lot of politicians are already taking about license, insurance etc. for bicycles.
E-bikes will only bring more water to their bucket.
  • - 7
flag nojzilla (Apr 18, 2016 at 9:41) (Below Threshold)
 Yep, money
Tax licence an insurer the things. Then use that £ to help repair the damage they're inevitably going to cause to trail centres
  • + 47
 Couldn't agree more. Perfect example - my wife has pretty bad asthma. She is a great rider, loves biking, loves spending time outdoors, but due to her asthma the longest rides she can do are 10-15km. Now I myself love doing big long epic rides, 30-40 km with over 1,000m climbing. Unfortunately, as much as she'd love to, my wife just cannot physically complete these types of rides. It sucks because I feel terrible leaving her at home, and she hates getting left behind. I see e-bikes as a great potential to bridge the gap. If there was a small light-weight motor that could help her out (just a bit) on the up-hills, it would open the doors to so many different trails for her. I think people need to open their minds - not everyone has the physical capability to pedal all-day, and not everyone wants an e-bike for the sole reason of brapping up trails and destroying strava times.... It's about making the outdoors accessible for everyone who wants to enjoy it.
  • + 5
 @BelowThreshold: People with knee, hip, back, surgery. People that have some sort of muscle problems. Some types of tendinitis. Basically anything that doesn't permit a person to pedal and go through strenuous effort as we can. Even though these might not sound like serious disabilities, it might make a world of a difference. This is without mentioning cases such as Martin Ashton which was mentioned above or superman-4's
  • + 5
 I can see on good usage of e-bike, replacing scooters/moto or even cars in city, giving the ability to 'ride' a lot faster to get to work etc. It might be the transport of the futur. For the sport itself, it is quite different than the bike and I don't think it is meant to replace it. If those thing are capable of much more, than I expect races with obstacle impossible to clear on a pedal driven bike, like steep as hell slope, jumps and stuff. Winner is the one who can add 400 watts with his/her leg.
  • - 3
 @BelowThreshold: Way to delete your previous comment man
  • + 13
 the Yeti guy and NSMB shit guy made the most sense. e-bikes are great, e-mtb is another story. and the argument for carbon footprint is not bad. there's two sides to this coin. the more we hate it the more unreasonable we seem. but i guess thats a goal for a few of us.
  • + 95
 As a person with a disability that can/ does stop me from mountain biking (or any biking), I really hate this justification for e-mountain bikes. I feel like this is a defense pushed by the bike industry to make it harder to argue against e-bikes, because nobody likes to say that people like me can't use the trails because our bodies are shit. I think e-mtb are nothing but a danger to folks like me, because I could very easily get stranded in a place where I couldn't self rescue, but more importantly I don't feel that motorized vehicles belong on human power trails, and just because I have a disability doesn't mean the rules should get thrown out.
  • + 2
 @superman-4: Here in Norway there is a guy with some heart-problems(I dont remember the details) and he hasnt been able to ride his mountainbike properly after he got the diagnose. Then a friend of him said he had an e-bike he should try. So he did. Now he can ride the mtb again. The motor helps him keeping the heart rate down and that makes him able to ride with the friends again. So in that matter e-bikes are good Smile
  • + 8
 @GabrielDugas: go ride motocross or e cross then
  • - 31
flag randybadger (Apr 18, 2016 at 10:10) (Below Threshold)
 I just like that it will make getting up hills easier. I really fucking hate climbing hills. I've been doing 25 years and they haven't got any easier. I'm ready for an ebike
  • + 60
 @cuban-b: Carbon footprint with e-bikes (and probably anything "e-ish") is bullshit : destroying lands to get some metal to make batteries we can't recycle... There's nothing ecologic in there. For those who need shuttles, just think about it : an old Land Rover Defender that will last almost 70 years probably has a lower carbon footprint than a Specialized E-Bike you'll have to throw away after 2-3 years of usage because you won't be able to find compatible batteries...
  • + 7
 I've said before on another site, E'bikes are to MTB what trikes are to motor cycles. Great for the dissabled but, if you're able bodied on a trike.........
  • - 2
 @randybadger: tsk tsk. At least where I live you can't ride ebikes in any forest so I don't have to deal with people like you
  • + 37
 If it's got any kind of engine even electric and it's on two wheels it's a motorcycle and should not be on MTB trails! Allot of people can't climb + hike mountains so what do they do? Other things that they are capable of doing.
  • + 2
 @Manx: Exactly !
  • - 5
flag Lims26 (Apr 18, 2016 at 10:44) (Below Threshold)
 @BelowThreshold: plenty of people ride mopeds douche
  • + 26
 People don't understand that once the battery is dead they'll be pedaling a 40lb bike.
  • + 3
 @Jhou: Yeah pedaling up hill on a heavy dh bike is super hard, even if your in shape.
  • + 9
 @Jhou: Some people are still pedaling 40lb bikes that don't have any electric motor or batteries.
  • + 27
 It also opens up opportunity for people to get Strava KOM's while eating donuts :-)
  • - 13
flag spookyrider09 (Apr 18, 2016 at 11:24) (Below Threshold)
 @Manxboy you sound like an ignorant clown:
  • + 4
 @Jhou: You mean a downhill bike? I do that anyways.
  • - 5
flag torero (Apr 18, 2016 at 12:09) (Below Threshold)
 E -bikes are to blame for the closure of trails.
  • + 9
 Agreed. I am looking to build an e bike just for commuting and winter Snow bank destroying, I would also use it for after work access to far off trails so I can maintain and build them without using all my energy that I don't have after work to pedal 50 km into the woods carrying tools and such. there is a place for them, but not on regular mountain bike trails IMO.
  • + 9
 @HamsterPants Thanks for the perspective and challenging the industry's motives!
@KRVZ You just nailed one of the reasons I don't like the Prius. Un-recyclable battery cell once they go bad. The battery replacement is $$$, so all the money you saved in fuel, gets gobbled up if the batteries fail. Also by the time they fail you are either going to have to replace the batteries to save the trade in value or pay half the KBB just to keep it on the road. Even though it saved on some exhaust fumes think about the huge amounts of battery cells that will never decompose, recycle, or recharge once all these cars reach the end of their life. Hypocritical.
  • - 3
 E-Bikes are the Juice of MTB. They should be eradicated.
  • + 3
 And do not call it Bicycles! They are mopeds. Cyclists do not eroded soil.
  • + 2
 At least all the really grumpy hardtail riders can turn their focus to the E-mtb'ers. Now I don't have to receive grumpy vibes just for having a carbon fiber full suspension AM bike from them.
  • + 4
 Or not...

www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/what-happens-to-ev-and-hybrid-batteries.html

But e-bikes don't belong on trails for plenty of other reasons.
  • + 2
 @pauldiggity: not the same , e bikes are pedal assist, martyn has what is effectively an elecric motorcycle based on a mtb, he obviously needs it set up like that but is not the same kit people are talking about in this clip
  • - 3
 Don't want one, don't buy one. Why do people whinge about it?
Everyone is so quick to jump to the conclusion about the industry 'wanting more money', but in reality it's not like everyone feels an impulse to buy one?
Embrace the fact people are getting out on their bikes and having FUN. Some people are just lazy and/or unfit, and if an electric bike is their gateway drug to a long term mtb addiction, then that's a win in my eyes.
  • + 3
 @bogdan75: nailed it. The truth right there. Don't be fooled they're for anything else other than more profit.
  • - 2
 By the way, I'm talking about pedal assist bikes. Although bikes with throttles would be fun as f*ck, trails could get closed and that's not good Frown
  • - 2
 I just think it's a shame that people out there with a disability who want to get an e-bike may be deterred from getting one because of other peoples opinions, as it's clear most people are against them.
  • + 1
 @JohnnyVV Awesome, they are recyclable. Still have to mine the raw materials, pay for the pricey replacements once out of warranty, and recycling the lithium cost more than it does to mine the raw materials. Recycling the other materials also degrades them. One option mentioned was saving batteries to store solar power for your house, but there are some morons out there that may mishandle the cell and burn their house down though. At least there are some good looking steps forward though and just like any new tech there is a learning curve. Still don't like the Prius for plenty of other reasons.
  • + 2
 Instead of Braaaaap, everybody will be saying "eeeeeee"
  • + 2
 @steelpolish: All I can think of is the Mini-me and Austin Powers fight now. youtu.be/qCU1qQ0cw6U?t=38s
  • - 4
flag WAKIdesigns (Apr 18, 2016 at 13:36) (Below Threshold)
 @KottonGin: I know the way around it. A 15lbs gyro connected via clutch to your drivetrain. Before the ride you dismount that gyro and put it into a special 154 gear trainer, purchased with the system. Over the course of an hour you spin it to 5 million RPM and put it back to the bike. Lever on your bars engages the clutch and gives you assist when you need it.

Now, hypothetically speaking - would that be ok to ride for the self-righteous crowd in here (which has not a tiniest will to think for a moment what actually causes trail erosion) , and would that secure no more trail closures?
  • + 3
 @superman-4 my only concern with that kind of thing is when the batteries die and your wife with asthma is stuck in the middle of no where then she has no choice but to pedal or call for help.
  • - 2
 @nismo325: my only concern with riding a Mountain bike is you can crash while riding alone in the evening, knock yourself out, nobody finds you and you die of hypothermia during the night. Also this FEST series, stoned riders jumping huge jumps, I don't know man. Hiking is a much safer way of experiencing nature
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: .... thanks.
  • + 3
 I hope for mass failure to all E bike manufactures. May you all go bankrupt. E bikes for the LAZY SLOTHS of society.
  • + 8
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm pretty sure there is a bigger chance of dying while driving to the trail head then when your actually mtb
  • + 1
 @cuban-b: I think the carbon footprint side is BS. You can run a chairlift for many people for many years. 1 ebike only carries 1 person, so without going into real research, I think it's an easy argument that a chairlift is way greener than an ebike for shuttling. Oh, forgot to add , Death To EBikes!
  • + 4
 @HamsterPants: you win pinkbike today
  • + 4
 I don't like stuff, please stop doing things,,,, you know the things
  • + 1
 I definitely have to agree about the shuttling thing. My first inclination is to totally be against them, but I thought about the exact same thing mentioned in the video... I will ride lifts and shuttle so how could I fully be against the e-bike? Maybe you could pull your battery for the way down to "prove" that you aren't using motorized transport, and then buzz back up a road or motorized trail to the top.

Also - 8 miles away? Boohoo, that's not a bad ride unless you're on a dh rig or there's a bunch of climbing!
  • + 2
 Stop whining about the mtb industry wanting to make more money, does it come a surprise to some of you that companies want to make money?
Nah, you guys are right. f*ck the mtb industry, I'll continue buying all their products and their 7k bikes, but f*ck 'em.
  • + 6
 @superman-4: I hate to be a dick but I have to say, that argument is just like the whole "handicap access" to parks and forests movement... Refer to Edward Abbey for a position on that. I have asthma, although it's not horrible (it only starts to terribly affect me riding at race pace in peak dust and pollen season at elevation), and I have medication for it to improve symptoms. I understand your wife's discomfort. However, effectively "paving the outdoors" so everyone can access them just pollutes the place with people who don't want to work hard to get there. Yes, the .001% who are like your wife may be inconvenienced, but honestly, committed people find a way.

I know a marine who is missing both legs from an IED, and is a college student. He wanted to start hiking some of the classic appalachian hikes around his school, but obviously is handicapped. Instead of getting some sort of moto chair or anything like that, he and his buddies modified his crutches (braces?) to work better on rugged terrain, and they helped him up the trails. Sure, he had to work a little harder than your average Joe, but that's life. Should they install a lift to the top of Angel's Landing in Zion, so the morbidly obese fat ass next to you can get to the top? After all, she and her husband are missing out on the benefits of fit people who ride bikes like you and I.... it's about making the outdoors accessible for everyone who wants to enjoy it.
  • + 2
 @trialsracer: I see both sides to this argument. Only time will tell. The factors are legislation and whether or not companies can make enough money selling these. Will these be legal on trails intended for pedestrians and horses as well? Will they be limited to power or speed capabilities? Can a company even make enough to sell these? We shall see.
  • + 4
 @dmadness: The owner of a local bike shop here has a long tail cargo bike that he has set up with two electric hubs that he uses for trail building. Dude can carry a lot of tools up some pretty steep trails with a 2WD E bike
  • - 1
 @red720: Yeah that is fine use for ebikes as long as he is not going up the actual mtb trail and is going up the fire road instead
  • + 3
 The whole e-bikes are for handicapped riders is exactly the same as the medicinal marijuana argument. Total bullshit.
It is about a potential growth market.
In this case e-bikes entice a whole lazy user market (almost everyone) to explore the purchase a $6K to $10K product that will require even more maintenance than MTB's and to them it is a whole new cost center to profit from that did not exist a year ago. Industry HAS to grow. Status quo is death. They already tapped the 26 to 29 to 27.5 to Fat wheel markets. Next up. E-bikes.
  • + 3
 @jonokonko: Yeah, I think there are heaps of practical applications for e-bikes. But mountain biking isn't practical, it's a recreational pastime we do purely for the enjoyment of it. Once you stick a motor on a mountain bike it becomes something different and you are not really mountain biking anymore.

The points made about shuttling and uplifts are valid, I might be selfish, but I'd prefer to get lift up and not have a cumbersome e-bike for the descent.
  • + 3
 My step-father and mother go on regular long distance rides together. They both have Norco Sight's which have been great for them. Unfortunately, now that my step-dad is getting even older (he turns 71 this year) it's harder for him to earn his descents. For my mother (57yrs) this is tough because she wants to be able to enjoy the amazing back country riding they've been doing for years (they live in New Zealand). Realistically, within the next 5 years, my step-dad isn't going to be able to do much more than a few laps of their local loop. But with an e-bike, he'll be able to go on full day rides. So I'm all for it, as long as it's relevant to the user.
  • + 3
 When I was coming up in the 70's people gave a fuck about looking cool.
  • + 2
 @jervis: Both of my parents are active mountain bikers and they are both 73 years old. I am 36 and I have ridden with them all my life. However, the older they get, the more mellow trails they ride. Mostly gravel roads. I doubt they will ever try an e-bike as they are not interested in going further - whats the point? They ride all day rides, but go much slower now. I do agree with you, this e-bike thing is relevant to the user. I work in the electronics industry, and my company supplies the components needed to make e-bikes. In the next few years, e-bikes will be extremely powerful. I am afraid of 20 year olds ripping up the trails in a few years. I am not worried about old people or people with disabilities ruining the trails. Its not going to be them, but rather irresponsible speed freaks.
  • + 2
 @chasejj: Sorry mate, you obviously have not been sick - I have been through hell and back, spent 4 months in ICU with a tracheotomy on life support... medicinal marijuana got me back to living. Maybe its not for your in perfect shape, but for some people it saves lives. E-bikes are not in the same argument. Apples to Oranges my friend...
  • + 1
 @KRVZ: exactly!
  • + 9
 All I know is that the guy who whizzed past me up the hill the other day with a smug look on his face: I wanted to see him fall off his bike so bad. The thing here is you're getting lazy asses into the realm of cycling, but they're not really advancing the cause. They don't care about cycling as a philosophy for a better world. They will gladly run red lights or tear up trails because they can. They don't cycle so they can drink more beer and not develop a belly. They're thinking, I can be a motorcycle without actually getting a motorcycle. So simply put, by opening the door to ebikes we are inviting the motorcyclist onto our trails under the guise of a bicycle. Bad news.
  • + 1
 @blackthorne: The issue at hand with e-bikes is where people can ride them. I'd love to ride an e-bike, it seems like fun but they don't belong on regular mtb trails. That's stupid. Sure there will be a few people who you describe on e-bikes but you already run into joey's on non-motorized mountain bikes. I feel its pretty easy to discern between non-motorized and motorized trails so hopefully that holds up. An e-bike is a lighter dirtbike with just as good of travel and you do still have to spend the legs.... it could be a pretty awesome feeling.

Also imagine if they one day include them on dirt jump bikes. Remember the segment from Life Cycles? Imagine kids in the midwest doing that for real because of a DJ e-bike.
  • + 1
 @scott-townes: I loved Lifecycles - but the whole movie was about sustainable industry. It was awesome to see people doing amazing things with a HUMAN POWERED mechanical contraption. Whats the point of e-bikes? Do they make you fit? Are youngsters going to trick them? Whats wrong with doing it yourself, under your own power?
  • + 0
 @steelpolish: You've got to be kidding... there's nothing sustainable about filming a MTB movie at all, especially Life Cycles and that was not the message. It was an awesome film with the backstory of showing the life of a bike and/or trail- that's all. To counter your point, "Whats the point of e-bikes? Do they make you fit?" Well what's the point of dirtbikes then? And you only ride your mtb to be fit? Do you know what fun is? What's wrong with doing it with some assistance?

Again, the only trouble with e-bikes is people thinking they belong on non-motorized trails.
  • + 2
 @scott-townes: I love a good debate! Yes, I ride my mountain bike to stay fit and to have fun. Check out my bio to see pics of bad times. My point is, ride a dirt bike if you cant pedal. Ride a mountain bike to stay fit and trim. If I didn't need assistance, and I went through hell, why do you need it? Again, e-bikes have their place, but not on gnar trails.
  • + 0
 @steelpolish: You're missing my point. That may be YOUR focus on riding MTBs, but a ton others ride a MTB purely for fun. For a couple examples, those who ride in a bike park where the lift does the climbing for them or those who do the climb for the ride down and not just the cardio on the way up. And you did agree with me, but it seems you don't see that. E-bikes have their place, just not on MTB trails as I've always been posting..
  • + 2
 @scott-townes: I am agreeing with you - I was only trying to bring other points out in this debate. E-bikes are not for everybody. They do not belong on all mtb trails. But, who should be riding them? Why? When they are super powerful, what do we do as mountain bikers? Do we ban them? Should we?
  • + 0
 @steelpolish: I don't mean to paint a broad brush over folks in a dire spot. But the fervor and vitriol over the MM becoming legal was 95% about getting access to be a legal high . It was not legit about real medical need. Walk into any shop in Oakland and it is obvious.
  • - 2
 All it takes to bring your hate down is to get people like Warner, Hill and Caluori to ride E-bikes on few events. Nico Vouilloz has already done a lot for the E-bike cause in Europe. If you get fired up so easily then it is easy to manipulate you.
  • + 3
 @pauldiggity: this comment should be top of the list. Well done sir, I applaud you.
  • + 0
 @chasejj: What does it matter when 100% of people who want weed can find it illegally BUT the families that have no other options are uprooting their lives to travel to a legal state to treat their CHILDREN with health issues! A family with a young daughter with Cerebral Palsy was having 40+ seizures a day. Pharma meds didn't work for years. They research cannabis and 2 years later pack their trailer, leave their 2 acre ranch, and move to Colorado to get access to liquid CBD for her and they see seizure reduction almost immediately. 11yo with Crohn's (uncurable) and again pharma didn't work. Options were 60% chance lymphoma with meds, surgically remove his bowels (colostomy), or "alternative." Guess what they moved to Colorado too. My buddy works at a club and he has stories like this as well. You want to hear them let me know. I don't have my card, but do know it is easy to get but don't let those easy cards (at least they're off the black market) stop those in true need from getting the help they need. I was also hesitant until I started to see square bear parents giving their grade school children cannabis and it changing their lives. Don't get me started on the need to decriminalize and address the huge numbers we have in prison for non-violent non-intent weed charges, weed shouldn't be Schedule1, it's legal in D.C. FFS! The growth market and how it is being handled is also heavily debated within the industry. There are 1000s of farms just North of me in the Emerald Triangle that would collapse if the growers got pushed out by big weed business. Colorado showed tax revenues can be good for the community too, the legislation just needs to be well defined and not stuck in this gray area. The e-bike legislation being defined differently per State and Federally is the only thing that I can see that comes close to correlating with the legalization of marijuana. I haven't see any specific e-bike marketing aimed solely at handicapped riders either.
  • + 0
 @BelowThreshold: There are plenty of disabilities, like severe heart conditions, where former (and new) riders no longer can ride their bikes, due to health issues. E-bikes are perfect for them to get back out on the trails with their mates and have some fun without dying.

Other than that, I live in Norway, and we have pretty strict laws concerning e-bikes (no more than 250w motor and no assist above 25km/h). This means that you have to pedal to get help from the motor and if you go above 25km/h the motor stops assisting. Break these rules, and you have to register the bike as a motorcycle or a moped. Which in turn means you're not allowed to take it offroad.
  • + 0
 @pauldiggity @Eastbournemtber This one or is there another video? youtu.be/kX_hn3Xf90g Most goosebumps I have had in awhile. The look on Martyn's face and the laughs, we all could only imagine the joy he probably experienced.
  • + 2
 @BelowThreshold: I'll be disabled soon...what am I gonna do?
  • + 1
 @superman-4: I agree with you 100%. I was sceptical at first but I opened my mind to the possibilities and now I have one on order, a 180mm travel one at that, so plenty of shuttles up and fun down. What's not to like about that? I'm 52 and my legs just don't carry me uphill like they did anymore. Does that mean I'm not welcome on the trails now just because I'm getting a bit of help to get me up (pardon the double-entendre). I couldn't care less about Strava, personally, seen too many people hurt themselves because of it.
  • + 1
 @Steezwhip: As long as they have a friend to carry them out if something happens.
  • + 0
 Unconditioned (and unskilled) riders on the trail going 40+ via motor? Absolutely not. I'm aggressive towards these people forever.
  • + 1
 @KottonGin: Dude. When you have that kind of rant about weed. its a problem. Not THAT many people really NEED it.
  • + 0
 @sevensixtwo: You ain't aggressive anywhere except in your own little mind.
  • + 0
 I do believe half of us ranting here should both do weed and some heavier drugs to relax and get to the point of the problem.
  • + 2
 This conversation went down in a very lengthy and predictable way.
  • + 1
 @chasejj: Stop trolling
  • + 0
 I've seen a few eBikes on trails, and each owner was an absolute train wreck. So unskilled, fat, personality and intelligence to match – and then you give them a 40mph motor that is whisper silent. Dangerous and party-foul for everyone.
  • + 1
 @steelpolish: gotchhheyyyyaaaa, I get it now.
  • - 1
 @chasejj: Expressing an opinion should never be a problem, I didn't attack or intend to insult anyone. If I had to watch my child have 40 seizures a day, I'd do whatever it takes to help them too. I live in an area where 3 counties survive from it but regional economy is bogus too right? Or all the prisoners that shouldn't be there? I understand it's a tricky topic but when someone can go to a methadone clinic, pickle their liver with some alcohol, smoke a pack of cancer sticks, and take some "prescribed" drugs I find it ridiculous. I know people who use weed to counteract the side effects of their prescribed pharma drugs. See the huge amounts of irony in that? Weed was never made illegal due to use or crime, it was due to money and social racism. Whether it's legal or not it's not going anywhere, so it needs to be brought off Sched1 so it can be studied and the laws defined correctly because they aren't currently. It's not just about "needing" it. Hope you enjoyed rant#2 Wink
  • + 1
 @KottonGin: I listened to too many Joe Rogan podcasts... I'm with you man.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Thanks! Rogan is polarizing to people, but I respect him for approaching topics that people usually don't address. He has openly done some heavy stuff and he still maintains his career which is also commendable.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Side note; Most of us with a grasp on reality do not need to gravitate towards "weed" or "heavier drugs" to relax. It is possible you believe what you believe because you hold a skew the reality mentality. LIfe is so great without the self induced drug alteration. Nothing personal.

However, a observation worth noting coming from a tenured fellow living on the left coast of a country that consumes way to much drugs to apparently enjoy life, or hold a perveived aberhant opinion.
  • + 0
 most of us also don't need self righteous lecturers judging others' lifestyles and telling people how to live their lives. tenured fellows are usually more open minded. nothing personal.
  • + 2
 @dirtchurner: I tried very delicately and diplomatically to state the opinion without endorsing the use of cannabis to get high and focused on the medical and incarceration issues. By the way when you extract CBD it loses the psychoactive qualities of THC. I definitely didn't attack straight edge folk and whether they live in "reality." So if a doc prescribed norcos for back pain are those people not living in reality either? You're also assuming that any advocate is a user. Bigotry will be the end of all of us I swear. Idiocracy is upon us.
  • + 2
 @sevensixtwo: You know you're absolutely right, ebikes will do 40mph and each owner of one is exactly as you say. I've seen the light and will sell mine as soon as it arrives, the filthy thing. I apologise to you for being...what was it...unskilled and fat. Cheers
  • + 0
 @john260164: no problem. Glad I could help.
  • + 3
 I heard all ebike users where also rapists and wife beaters
  • + 1
 @randybadger You know, I could totally see that.
  • + 1
 @KottonGin: your autocorrect is clearly mtb obsessed. Kids, don't use norcos to treat back pain. Wink
  • + 1
 @alexhyland: Norco is a brand name of an opioid hydrocodone/acetaminophen. Guess I should have used the name vicodin or percocet instead since it is so close to narco. I used norco instead of narco because of the prescription aspect and large amount of abuse...either way docs are prescribing legal opioids attributing to an epidemic.
  • + 1
 @KottonGin: ha! 'scuse me I just assumed your phone had autocorrected narco to norco
  • + 1
 @alexhyland: It's all good, pretty much close in meaning either way lol. You could always crash riding a Norco and cause back issues though.
  • + 1
 @pauldiggity: Same as Anne Caroline Chausson after her battle with cancer. As well the Specialized dude said it best don't knock it till you try it
  • + 2
 I think the biggest thing is that ebikes require pedal input to be classified as ebike and they're electric motorcycles if they use a throttle, therefore those who would potentially benefit from the disabled argument most likely cannot pedal them. It's about getting money from lazy people.
  • + 2
 All in all its a foolish debate with no right or wrong answer, just a load of people getting angry at other peoples differing views. Add it to politics and religion as a taboo subject.
  • + 71
 A motor is a motor. Non-motorized bikes on non-motorized trails.Some of us don't shuttle up, we climb!
  • + 27
 This was my thought as well. If it's a motor assisted bicycle, it's no longer a bicycle. They should be classed with motor bikes, a shittier lower powered version of a motor bike, but a motorbike nonetheless. E moto's may be the future of motorbikes in general if we look at where the auto industry is going.
  • + 6
 I think that ebikes have a place in the outdoors, just not on mtb trails. Personally I would like to try one on a forest service road, it looks fun, but I believe that they belong on motorized trails only. There are many hundreds of miles of forest service roads all over and if they want to ride on them more power to them. It is just really annoying when you get to a steep hill on a trail and it has so much dust that you have to push your bike up the hill because you spin out.
  • + 5
 @WAtrailmaker: BINGO... FSR access to trails while carrying tools to fix and build mtb trails.. this is my sole perpose for wanting an e bike, but I will build my own for under 2G. and then ride my regular mtb when I wanted to go for a real ride.. I love Dirtbikes but don't dig how noisy they are, I'd rather ride a E bike down a FSR anyday.
  • - 2
 @dmadness: Good point, hauling tools a mile in and then a mile out to build trail is not something that i enjoy.
If you could build a large rack on the back of it to carry two shovels and some other building tools it would be cool! Just use a pedal assist ebike not the kind that has a throttle lever like a dirt bike.
  • - 1
 I will quit riding before I buy an eBike.
  • + 2
 @makripper: I agree. I have seen E-Bikes on flat ground and they go way faser then if you where just pedalling, it is insane people can say they are just regular bikes and they should be allow on mtb trails.
  • + 59
 I think the first clip says it all: money
  • + 21
 I noticed the big manufacturers had a bunch of their pro rider race on them at Sea Otter aka - push them as 'everybody' bike included even the fastest pros. This is not cool. Get a dirt bike if you want a ebike for christ's sake.
  • + 5
 yeah: get a dirt bike if you want an ebike!
  • - 7
flag cuban-b (Apr 18, 2016 at 9:48) (Below Threshold)
 the only thing we need to look at is the reaction from purists like those of us on pink bike. the more upset we get, the more it proves to e-bike manufacturers that we are threatened by this disruption. our reactionary behavior validates their goals
  • + 9
 @cuban-b: Firmly disagree - it's a concern of infringement and jeopardizing already threaten trail access in the western US. If the bike manufacturers want to disrupt the market - totally fine with me, I support innovation and more people out on the trails - but not with a motor (true mechanization not human powered) which have the potential to actually destroy trails and steam roll hikers both up and down the trails.
  • - 1
 @nicolai12: sure, i agree with you about the trail access issue. but thats only one argument of the dozen i see on this page. but, for example, when someone in the video says he wants to be an elitist, it makes our whole community seem douchey. wanting to be an elitist is a terrible reason to hate e-bikes.
  • + 8
 @nicolai12: I understand the the trail access issue. But isn't it a little bit of a stretch to say that e bikes "have the potential to actually destroy trails and steam roll hikers both up and down the trails". If it is a pedal assist e bike you are talking about, that statement is not true man. Have you ever ridden one? In the trails that I ride the prevalence of fatbikes riding muddy trails in spring and trails being leaf blown in fall create more erosion than anything else.
  • + 3
 @Chalchalero: Yes - ridden one and hated it. Sorry mate - not a supporter. Good luck with it.
  • + 3
 Yeah, money and wanton disregard for the possible negative outcomes. Fat and +size bikes are still fresh, price of carbon still pricey, new standards...again, sure are thorns in our sides but we have the choice not to consume. When the possibility that scares me the most is looming legislation change that's where I think the industry needs to hire an analyst to really take a hard look at the ramifications that could be handed to us without much of a choice.
  • - 8
flag RollinFoSho (Apr 18, 2016 at 14:07) (Below Threshold)
 .
YES - DH E-Bikes going up fireroads and logging roads then riding DH runs down

NO - E-Bikes on singletrack, especially climbs

= Everybody Happy !

and less dust from shuttle vehicles Smile
  • + 5
 @RollinFoSho: NO, NO, AND NO.
  • + 2
 @RollinFoSho: NO NO &NO
  • - 2
 @cuban-b: dude, you need to catch social ques. He wasn't saying he just wants to be an elitist, he's saying that there's reason to be an elitist, because that what mountain biking is about - using pedals and gravity. (Not supporting his point, I would just like other people to get it)
  • - 1
 And for the record I always pedal, almost never shuttle and would never get an E-MTB. I ride a I50mm Trail bike. I do live in beautiful BC CANADA. May be harder to all get along in other areas.
  • - 2
 @RollinFoSho: Why did you get neg repped? I have to agree wholeheartedly, at least if you qualify your statement with "working e bikes" on singletrack (pop the battery out or something). Either way enforcement will always be an issue.
  • + 0
 @properp: what do y'all not agree with there?
  • - 3
 @trialsracer: E turds.
  • + 0
 I just find it ironic that mtn bikers' hatred for ebikes is the same as hikers' hatred for mtn bikers. We are now no better than our critics. That's just what I see.
  • + 2
 @cuban-b: There are a few perspectives being thrown out there so it's impossible to single out the entire PB demographic to be honest. E-bikes already have Federal and State regulations in place and they are all different per state and some require a license and even a state that requires liability insurance if not on private property. For me I worry that if the regulated e-bike shares terrain with the pedal bike the regulations could cross over for some ridiculous reason. Hikers and MTB need to just get along. We need to start calling out blind turns and drops like they do in restaurant kitchens.
  • + 3
 The bike industry is selling their souls (and our trails) for money.
  • + 1
 In the USA, E-bikes may have it easier than pedal bikes getting trails just because it has a motor.
  • + 50
 You say e-bike, I say it's not a mountain bike.If you want to ride them with the motto crowd that's cool, but they don't belong on mtb only trails.
  • + 34
 Yep, Ibis dude nailed it for me
  • - 12
flag cuban-b (Apr 18, 2016 at 9:55) (Below Threshold)
 @speed10: it just makes him look like an elitist though. since he did say he'd like to be an elitist. NIMBYs are worse for trail access than ebikes.
  • + 13
 I would guess that these bikes are classified under "motorized" recreation, and although they have their place, it's not on trails designated for "non-motorized" recreation.
  • + 3
 Mountain moped!
  • + 1
 We need to start pushing policy makers to ban eBikes on bike trails. And be extremely aggressive with early adopters that are showing up at trails with motors.
  • + 1
 @acali: it sure is embarrassing if your friends see you riding a moped
  • + 3
 Who needs friends when you have a sweet ass moped?
  • + 40
 Whether you like e-bikes or not the mountain bike community cannot ignore the effect this will have on trail usage at a local, provincial (or state) and federal level. Many local trail building associations carry insurance to cover liability.... how will a motorized bikes affect this? Private land owners may not be open to motorized usage due to insurance liability. Until the bike community and manufacturers get together to address the longer term issue here this could just become a nightmare for everyone. The current create and sell without thinking about the longer term effect is bad... a little bad in Canada but VERY BAD in the US.
  • + 34
 The effect will be sweeping trail closures for all bikes.
  • + 8
 This. Everyone will have an opinion and choose to like, not like, ride, or not ride the silly things but the number one aspect to consider is the effect it will have on trail access. I believe that here in the US, they will cost us dearly.
  • + 6
 @SteveDekker: Yes. IMBA and STC better get their groups out ahead of this before it turns into a mega mess!
  • - 5
flag knarf1 (Apr 18, 2016 at 10:08) (Below Threshold)
 For all the closed minded people out there most of the electric assisted bikes out there only work when you pedal. So you can't just run on electric power and do donuts and burn outs. They also only work up to a rated speed before they shut off. So the point is you still have to pedal to go and once the earth points down the motor will more than likely be off. The E-Bike does less damage to trails than horses or pros blowing up berms for the sake of producing a video clip.
  • - 3
 @knarf1: Exactly. They are also called "pedelec" for the reason...
  • + 7
 @knarf1: The e-assist adds the pedaling power of a seriously fit rider to the power generated by the user. Pretending that is not a qualitative difference in how trails will be used and eroded doesn't strike me as realistic.
  • + 7
 VERY BAD indeed. Especially in sue happy California where a burglar could fall through your skylight, sue you for their injuries, and WIN! How long before the insurance companies are telling us when, where, and how we can ride and telling legislators what to pass that makes them the most mandatory money. Imagine being denied insurance coverage because a previous broken collar bone or leg and being classified a "high risk" rider. How many of us would have to pay high premiums or just be outright denied. Same with property insurance, it's already hard enough to cut a new legal trail. I honestly don't think e-bikes will be that much faster to make them dangerous but all it will take is a slight majority to be convinced, bought, or have business motives and the legislation could be really bad. Just look at regulatory capture in global banking, energy resources, large manufacturing, government contractors, and those questionable ethics. Those are huge global sectors and it still slips through the cracks so I could only imagine how bad us little ole cyclists could get screwed.

*Also take a look at the speed limit laws being introduced in Marin County. It is already happening. Add a electric motor to make the bikes faster and we just handed them even more ammo to screw us.
  • + 3
 @KottonGin: As I see it creates more controversy in the US. Land of the free with way too many restrictions insurance premiums etc. while in Europe the pedelec is taken off big time.
  • + 3
 @bosnianrider: Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't some of Europe embrace cycling as transportation and thus have great infrastructure? The issue with the US is all the e-bike laws are different at Federal and State levels. I looked up some laws and already found some states that require a license and even one state that requires registration and liability insurance if not on private property. As long as they keep e-bikes and pedal bikes classified separately i'm ok with it. My worry is that if the e-bike is allowed to use the same terrain it is possible to trickle down the regulations to the pedal bikes.
  • + 4
 @nicolai12: IMBA already has a stance on this and it is one of the few things i fully agree with them on. The official stance is a motor is a motor, no e-bikes on non-motorized trails
  • + 30
 I have the same CG opinion !! Thanks lord CG
  • + 23
 This is all just so odd and convoluted. So many delicious ironies and hypocritical elements to the entire "debate".

We've got cities across the country shutting down mountain bike trails (which, presumably, you need a bike to ride them on), and rather than pumping money into building, securing, and defending trail access (which would in turn sell more bikes) companies like Specialized and all the other soulless, greedy, shortsighted, ignorant, greedy, self-sabotaging, greedy (did I say greedy?) a$$hat companies out are just investing their futures in something that can ONLY hurt the sport.

I'm not criticizing the basic rules of capitalism, I'm criticizing the lack of social responsibility on these companies that seem intent on endangering the sport for many of us. I don't know about where you live, but I know that the first elderly dog walker that sees someone cruising up the trail pressing something that appears to be a throttle, it's going to be all over for me and all the other riders that live there and love that trail.

If you disagree you are most likely a lazy fat-a$$, brain dead, or morally corrupt. UNLESS , and ONLY UNLESS you have a legitimate physical impediment that would otherwise keep you from enjoying the sport. Being LAZY does not constitute a physical impediment.

These are harsh words that most likely make me appear to be a Luddite zealot a-hole. But that doesn't make me wrong.

If you write for a mountain bike publication though, what choice do you have except to be implicitly pro-ebike? You can't outright trash them, because you know which side your bread is buttered on. No mountain bike journalist who wants to keep making a living is going to come out against them very vocally. No head of a mountain bike publication is going to allow their employees to have a persistently negative opinion of e bikes. Without advertising dollars and other kinds of support from major bicycle manufacturers these writing jobs and publications may cease to exist. Unless of course these publication endeavors truly are passion projects for all those involved, whom are presumably diehard fans of persistently battling gravity as they pedal up a hill to earn the ride back down. But then, you would implicitly loathe the idea of e bikes, wouldn't you?

And while we're making all this noise about STC and what IMBA is or isn't doing, and how we are losing all these trails to wilderness and all that is a completely shoestring cash-strapped endeavor, we have no one with any true forceful public voice defending the sport from e bikes, something that I believe will prove to be much more insidious than an antiquated wilderness law.

If you don't want to break a sweat then buy a goddamn motorcycle and leave the rest of us out of it. If you are disabled, then somehow permits or other special access options must be figured out.

If you run a mountain bike publication, or you write for one, then please, for the sake of the sport, loudly proclaim what the rest of us are feeling. Because I know deep down, despite that paycheck and that sweet new test rig you're enjoying, you're feeling what we're feeling too.
  • + 1
 Well thought out, rational rant...... Loved it!!
  • - 4
flag MasterSlater (Apr 18, 2016 at 12:39) (Below Threshold)
 @RBWebb

Rant? Definitely...

Well-thought-out? Debatable!
  • + 1
 wow, nailed it
  • - 3
 Yet another idiot that thinks e-bikes have throttle and not pedals. You just wasted a lot of time writing that when you instantly pointed out you have no idea what your on about. Your thinking of motorbikes. FFS, these bikes stand no chance with people who rant on about things they don't even understand.
  • + 9
 @clarky78:

Please pull your head out of your ass long enough to compose a rational line of thought.

It's not about e bikes RIGHT NOW, it's about what they REPRESENT for the FUTURE OF THE SPORT.

If you're going to call people names, then do it from an actual solid understanding of what's unfolding around you. Not just what's right in front of your nose.
  • - 4
flag chasejj (Apr 18, 2016 at 17:16) (Below Threshold)
 Lighten up Francis! They are here get used to it.
  • + 1
 this!!
  • + 22
 E-MTB's have no place on bike trails & I hope they are banned ASAP.

Specialized & the other bike co's doing this are short sighted, greedy & stupid .... I for one will never buy another Specialized product over this E-bike stupidity.
  • + 24
 I kinda lost interest in what the last guy was saying when I spotted Hannah Barnes in the truck in the background
  • + 8
 Plus the @ 3:58 magic trick from the other woman in the background. Jeans then.... poof! Orange shorts.
  • + 2
 @garcmol: Good spot, dunno how I missed that.
  • + 3
 I think everyone tuned out the blah blah blah at that point.
Umm, what were we talking about???
  • + 4
 @garcmol: We need the missing footage! or maybe she is... magic..
  • + 20
 Electric mopeds. They are already marketing motorcycle riders. There are very few off road spaces for motorcycles compare to bikes. If these will take off, expect more restrictions on trail access. And possible a license plate and insurance on all bicycles. These are perfect as urban transportation and should be limited to that.
  • - 5
flag IllestT (Apr 18, 2016 at 11:50) (Below Threshold)
 What a load of nonsense
  • + 18
 E-bikes are expensive. Too expensive to be considered an "intro" into the sport for most people. I think their application is great for townie/commuter riders, but if you want to ride a motorized mountain bike on hike/bike specific trails, there will be issues. I personally don't see to point. If you are spending that kind of money to ride a motorized bike on dirt trails, just get a dirt bike! Braaap!
  • + 18
 Magura provides manufacturers who make e-bike with parts, they're not gonna say it's bad. Specialized makes e-bikes, they're not gonna say it's bad. E-bikes are a way to go around the laws because the laws did not evolved fast enough, but all in all they're just like any other motorised vehicles. They don't belong on MTB trails. These are motorbikes, not mountain bikes period. But they're exactly what über-consumers want : things to buy, things that make things easier, things that lower the bars : this will allow anybody to reach places you could before only access by doing a little effort. It's just like changing the mountains into an amusement park. Plus we allready pollute our planet with batteries we can't recycle (phones, laptops, tablets, whatever from our "mobile" generation) so why add more ? The world is always getting dumber. Thanks CG !
  • + 18
 They keep pushing the "no emissions" thing, but where do you think the energy you use to charge it comes from!??!
  • + 11
 @skelldify: Plus they don't tell you about the lifecycle of an e-bike... You'll probably have to throw it away after a couple of years, when you won't be able to find spare batteries anymore... E-bike are just like any other electronics consumer goods...
  • + 2
 @skelldify: Or for that matter the f*cking Teslas and Prius drivers. Everyone thinks all that power is free. Honestly, my farts are probably more polluting than the power used to charge these things though. This batteries are low in comparison.
  • - 1
 @chasejj: electric cars are more efficient. power isn't free but it's definitely the lesser of two evils
  • + 21
 You say e-bike, i say no REAL bike
  • + 17
 Good stuff... until the Specialized marketing ploy at the end. They just don't get it. It's not an issue about people thinking it's not fun, of course it is fun to not work as hard on the uphill. The real fear people have is losing access to even more trails than they already are. If Specialized really wants to take a leadership role in this shit and prove that they care about the sport, they should go full bore on the legislation side of it and create a clear line... instead, unfortunately, they will just continue to muddy the water.
  • + 6
 I loved his logic (not). If you haven't tried something how do you know you don't like it. Well, there are a lot of things I recommend you don't try, and if you like them your interests are not compatible with a community or society. Murder, Rape, Arson, Theft, Vandalism, Wrecking trails or trail access. E-Bikes are not compatible with the mountain bike community.
  • + 13
 As far as I'm concerned, keep them off non motorized trails. I don't care that these exist as long as they don't create conflict or closures and as long as they stay off hiking/bike trails they shouldn't . Other than that, Ride what you want.
  • + 13
 If it has a throttle/motor, keep it off trails. Sure people might say you can get back up faster, great, but now your atop a sweet trail with a heavy ass bike with high center of gravity, making it as fun to maneuver as the brick dh bikes from 12 years ago. Can't wait to hear stories about collisions on trails Rolleyes
  • + 14
 If legislation passes in San Francisco, it will mark the beginning of the end for E-bikes here in California. There are consequences to this new so called revolution.
  • + 9
 What a bunch of narrow minded elitists. I do not see why everyone has their panties in a knot over this. They do not have anymore impact in the trails than riders who skid down hill or blast through berms. If you are not in good shape riding a bicycle is not fun on the trails. The e bikes change that, they allow anyone to enjoy the amazing sport of mtb. Get off your soap boxes and let people ride what they want.
  • + 9
 If you don't wanna make a little effort, then don't ride bikes. You have to earn things a little. E-bikes make you go up a hill just like you would enter a supermaket. That sucks !
  • + 13
 "If you are not in good shape riding a bicycle is not fun on the trails."
You heard something about challenge?
A buddy of mine started out riding last year, being not as physically fit nor technically fit as me. When going on rides together, he almost died at every ascent, he tried to keep up with me(or even just get up in his own pace). Did it kill his fun? Of course it didnt. It motivated him to become fitter. Nowadays, people are doing less and less of physical work, even the sport they do in their leisure time doesnt compensate. Should that be further promoted, by saying "instead of getting fit, get a motor"?
Im not discussing the "let people ride what they want." part of your argument, but getting a bike and expecting to be fit straight away is really bad thinking. If you're not in a shape, good enough to properly ride a bike, then you definetly shouldn't be out on demanding trails, but first get in a healty condition first.
  • + 2
 @d-man trail degradation and erosion for DH will be comparable (although having a throttle in a turn is much more abrasive berms - it's the torque and throttle power going up hill. Look at any moto trail and the impact of throttle torque is stupid obvious.
  • + 12
 If you are not in good shape stop eating five hamburgers for dinner and get in a shape, that's the whole f*cking point of sports and it's not supposed to be changed. Why do you think the first sports were running, wrestling, throwing a javelin etc.? "Faster, higher, stronger" is the motto of Olympics. What do these words represent if not elitism, i.e. being better than others? I'm sick of this modern egalitarian world where everyone feels entitled to everything without having to make any effort whatsoever. What will be the next thing added to bikes, drone-like rotors so that you can safely jump off a 30 ft cliff?
  • + 1
 @d-man true. if people want to be purists, they should be riding a rigid frame 26" with v brakes, because it's old-school. however, i think adding any kind of motor takes these bikes out of the category of mtb and into moto.
  • - 2
 I agree with D-man. To many closed minded people on here... not that that's surprising. Same people who probably moaned about 15mm axles and dropper posts and 29ers and disc brakes..
  • - 1
 @nicolai12: Nikolai12. Your truly comparing an e-bike with a moto.. you really think you can lay down roost in a berm or chew up a trail uphill?! Haha. .as with most keyboard junkies here, clearly haven't ridden one or have any idea what they are capable (or incapable) of.
  • + 2
 @KRVZ: really you "have to earn it"??? What a joke. You don't "have" to do anything but enjoy riding a bike.
  • + 3
 @d-man: "You don't "have" to do anything but enjoy"

And that's exactly the degenerative modern mentality I'm talking about, people want everything immediately but just the idea of some physical effort makes them shake their heads with disgust.
  • + 1
 @d-man: @d-man: That's just primal consumerism. You just want to buy to be able to "enjoy". How can you be enjoying something you didn't earn ? There's no rewards without challenges. No reward = no enjoyment, it's just about spending money and consuming without efforts.
  • + 2
 @KRVZ: I'd specify it: You can indeed enjoy something you didn't earn - but usually only for a short period of time, then you get bored because there's no challenge. Like playing a computer game with cheats. And then you'll want more fun, because fun is addictive, so you'll look up something even more extreme and start wondering how to do that without any effort. And so it continues...
  • + 8
 It's odd that some people find climbing so bad. The dude from Specialized made it sound like no one likes climbing. I do. I have never shuttled in my life and I've ridden off road for 33 years. I do buy the comment that using an e- bike instead of a shuttle is a positive. My fear is that the marketers will be selling more and more powerful e-bikes to differentiate their bikes from the other guys. For. City commuting I think they are brilliant. City use l think has power restrictions and perhaps speed too, but I would think. Off road is wide open. Then you have places like the Chilcotins where bikes are tolerated. What if e-bikes make that area more accessible for non climber types? Personally I don't really care but other non riders might. I don't want to see bikes lumped in with e-bikes in a negative way.
  • + 11
 The place is not that big. How lazy do you need to be to ride around with an E-Bike at Sea Otter?
  • + 7
 How lazy do you need to be to ride around with an E-Bike a̶t̶ ̶S̶e̶a̶ ̶O̶t̶t̶e̶r̶? FTFY.
  • + 8
 I definitely see full on E-bikes as something that is motorized and should not be allowed on non motorized trails (most singletrack, in my area at least) but the pedal assist E-bikes are a frustrating gray area. I've never ridden one, so I don't know how much horsepower they add to a rider's output but I'm certainly hesitant about any kind of motor propelling bikes. Especially when viewed from a trail access standpoint.
  • - 4
flag bosnianrider (Apr 18, 2016 at 10:45) (Below Threshold)
 I tried a pedelec and I was really surprised because I liked it a lot. They assist the most effectively when your cadence is between 70-90rpm and only up to a certain speed. 25kph is the most common above that you are your own. After trying it on my loop in the local forest I just don't see the drama with them (pedelec) they are not electric motorbikes and they don't do more damage to the trails than a regular bike.
  • + 7
 This is not a new subject in the bike industry. I bought a shop and proceeded to get rid of the ebikes that were there. And now years later, I still have the same opinion NOOOOO. If we're looking for new customers, maybe we should think about dropping prices and trying to hook those folks that are not riding....
  • + 10
 I like how when the Magura guy said "money", his next reaction was "oh, should I have not said that?"
  • + 6
 Between all the new standards that have come out within recent years (most initially met with resistance, only later to become largely accepted) the bike industry has obviously come to the conclusion that they are the ones dictating what consumers want. (This is not entirely untrue due to our constant obsession with the latest and greatest). This trend has obviously escalated to the point where the mountain biking industry (ahem Specialized) seems believe they can convince us not only to accept, but also pay absurd amounts of money for technology that changes the fundamental core of what mountain biking is as a sport.
  • + 6
 I worked as a mechanic in different bike shops in Switzerland and the last 2.5 years in Zermatt (on of the best enduro regions of Switzerland when it come to riding hiking paths, switchbacks and so on. check the videos here on pinkbike). We were the biggest bike shop in town and sold something around 400 bikes/year wich about 1/3 of them were E-bike (either hardtail or full suspension Mountain bikes) Mountainbiking was rapidly growing at the time in Zermatt as many locals and hanging seasoneers were finding it as a great alternative to skiing in the summer. I no nobody or heard of nobody ever riding on the trails we normally rode with e-bikes and can not see the problem becoming one. Even tho those bikes have 100-160mm of suspension on the front/back the people aren't even considering riding on the trails there. Only on wider gravel paths that would be boring for every real biker. E-bikes are a great advantage for many purposes, such a replacing a car in a smaller town if you aren't transporting anything big, even companies are using E-bikes more and more to move around. I dont see why everybody is so paranoid now that they will get kicked of a trail because somebody else bought an E-bike. People are scared of everything today.
  • + 5
 I think the guy in the Yeti tent is echoing my sort of unresolved sentiment - I think e-bikes are great, but e-mtb has probably kinda gotten the horse in front of the proverbial cart. There is a ton of potential that e-mtb could tear up trails and get us all thrown out. Of course, they can also be used for less nefarious purposes, such as helping challenged athletes or as an environmentally friendlier option to shuttling. So I dunno - but the bikes are already out there and we can't take forever to figure out what to do with them. Myself, I ride mtb because I love it and need the exercise, so there is no ebike in my immediate future (plus, I'm too cheap) and I don't care if someone else wants to ride one safely. But I do care about my local trails.
  • + 7
 E-bikes please re-direct your product to the street only not our trails. Your ruining our mojo and you'll be the ambassador of trail closures all over America...
  • + 5
 I love the last guy's point of view. Don't knock it till you try it. As is with all things in life, there's too much blind hatred and vitriol towards things unknown... I personally love the idea of a light-weight E-Moto style bike, since I don't need to be going 75mph on a heavy-ass 250cc gas powered Moto. I'd be more inclined to try one for moto-style-enduro (uphill AND downhill) trail riding.
  • + 9
 "Don't knock it until you try it". That seems totally reasonable... Heroin, bank robbery, whale meat.
  • + 1
 That point of view is parroted by a bunch of the Specialized folks. Really, its avoiding the problem. This isn't an issue of a wheel size, or how much fun they are- Their political talking points only deflect the real issue and wrap it into "if you don't have experience on one, you don't get to talk".
  • + 4
 Don't knock it till you try it is one of the worse arguments of all time.

Don't knock it till you try it:
Rape, meth, white collar crime, abortion, fracking, exploiting immigrant workers for cheap labor, boost hubs, roller blading, going vegan.

The argument shows the individuals lack of foresight, plain and simple.
  • - 2
 You are disgusting
  • - 2
 @dberndt: haha wow. Did not expect you to take something reasonable about bikes and make it totally unreasonable about serious terrible shit that I would never advocate trying haha.
  • + 0
 @speed10: hilarious. I advocated trying a BIKE, not trying terrible shit that no sane person would advocate trying hahaha Lack of foresight plain and simple must explain drawing such conclusions between trying a BIKE and trying rape and meth etc
  • + 3
 @speed10: you missed dogging
  • + 0
 @Earthmotherfu: Dogging your Mom. Sorry it was too easy. @pauldiggity What the others are saying is that if you strip the objectiveness away from your statement and look at just the theory of "Don't knock it till you try it." it is not a viable decision maker regardless of subject matter. The extreme examples were just tools to portray that.
  • + 1
 @KottonGin: considering she's dead I suppose it would be necro.
  • + 0
 @Earthmotherfu No necro for me, not my thing. I had a hunch that was probably, but rolled the dice...mmmm looks like foot in mouth lunch for me. Again, sorry, didn't mean any disrespect.
  • + 1
 @dberndt: except that riding an ebike is not illegal......
  • + 3
 @d-man: yeah, and none of the extreme examples were illegal initially. The point is, as @KottonGin tried to eplain more clearly, the "don't knock it till you tried it" line is a close cousin of the anecdotal fallacy. It isn't based in logic.

Somehow the fact that a representative from Specialized is saying it is almost too perfect.
  • + 4
 So many closed minded fools here. An e-bike is not a motor bike. You cannot just sit there and twist a throttle. Also, I think I'm safe to say that a powerful pro rider can produce as much power as one. And go faster than most e-bikes too.. people saying ride them with the moto's are dumb, you really think a moto rider wants a bicycle doing 20kph going round a track where they are doing 100 kph? Yeah, that sounds safe!

I have ridden e-bikes, I'm not some uneducated fool who just thinks he knows what they are. Like the last guy said, it's like Tivo, it helps you just speed up the dull bits to enjoy the rest. Whilst PEDALLING!. Because I think it's clear most people think e-bikes are just mini-motos or something that just require no rider input. And, what happens when the battery dies? You have 25kg mtb. That will make you fit. And, get this, it's surprising I'm sure you'll, agree, you can't turn them off!!! Imagine that! You can actually ride under human power too! Whatever next!

Get off your high horses ass holes. I'm in my 25th year of mountain biking, longer than many on here have been alive, and I say they are fine if that what you want to do. I have made it up climbs I have never made on other bikes, even on a bike way too small for me. And I find it much more fun to maintain spend ththan pedal endlessly whilst tired. I don't own one, but I would. Probably a fat bike e-bike because I find fat bikes need some assistance when used for there intended purpose anyway.
  • + 1
 "An e-bike is not a motor bike"

yes, yes it is. an electric motor is a motor.
  • + 2
 Apparently "25 years of riding" or life have taught this dude nothing. They WILL END UP having full throttle, non-pedal assist soon enough. It's not about the e bikes as they currently are, it's about what the advent of the e bike portends.

I think you need to explore the issue a little further, because anyone who's been "riding for 25 years" would understand that the implications are a lot more far-reaching than you just maintaining speed up climb.
  • + 2
 They already have full throttle / non-limiter e-bikes that will easily hit 40-50km/h, and many jurisdictions have passed laws that class them the same as mopeds and scooters (thus they cannot be used on bike paths).
  • + 3
 @deeeight:

Right, they are classified and thus aren't "allowed" on certain trails, but that doesn't mean e bike riders will actually stay off those trails. Quite the opposite will end up happening I think.
  • + 1
 @MasterSlater: no one will give a shite about then in uk..until some lairy arsed kid gets squished by a juggernaut on one for going too fast on the road...uphill.
  • + 4
 Shit tastes like shit I know this yet I've never eaten it...so don't tell me I have to try an e-bike to understand it would be bad for mountain bikers and the battles that we already have to fight against all the people who want to see us do laps in parking lots instead of riding trails.
  • + 6
 that guy in the NSMB shirt knows that the electricity to charge an eBike most likely comes from a fossil fuel power plant right?
  • + 2
 In Marin, most homes are powered by a non-profit company that uses close too 100% alternative energy sources, and I bet that's where most of the e-bikes are being bought haha
  • + 0
 @the-lorax: That is BS by the way.
  • + 1
 @chasejj: NO it's not. If you "do nothing", you get 50% of your power provided by Marin Clean Energy. If you opt-in and pay something like $10 extra per month, you can go 100%

It's actually cheaper for most commercial businesses in Marin to go through them.

www.mcecleanenergy.org/your-energy-choices
  • + 1
 @chasejj: Happening one county North too sonomacleanpower.org
  • + 1
 @KottonGin: all BS hype. The infrastructure for 100% dosen't exist. its a scam to sucker greens into paying more for energy.
  • + 1
 @chasejj: I didn't do the 100%. Can't just jump in blind and headfirst into this stuff nowadays.
  • + 1
 @chasejj: Did you not read my post? It's actually cheaper in most cases (for businesses).
  • + 4
 I've been around the sport a long, long time. Personally I find it more gratifying to get fitter and stronger in order to pedal up something I can't. I secretly hit up impossibly steep climbs over and over when the mood strikes. It's a matter of pride and self-respect. I don't want things dumbed down for me, I want challenge. I have the same approach to distances too. I enjoy the fact that I can pedal 100 km of single track at a decent race pace, and pride myself that I will only get faster.

Having said that, if someone wants to ride an e-bike it's their choice, but unless they have an illness or disability I'll view them as the lowest common social denominator. I neither trust nor respect those who live for shortcuts. Is that elitist? Probably. Is dumbing down challenges in life lazy and uninspired? Definitely.
  • + 4
 The only appeal of an E-bike for me is to help drag a full weight DH rig to the top of a bloody great hill that would otherwise only be possible to hike up. I could then have more time riding down than pushing up. That sounds good to me. Anyone who buys one of these things to help them on an XC loop is clearly missing the point!
  • + 1
 That's what I've been saying, definitely the way to get more riding hours out of your bike. 5 mins down 6 mins up is way better than 5 down and a 25 minute walk up
  • + 0
 @simooo: spot on!! I've ridden a couple of 180mm ones and they make sense if you have limited time and want more dh than pushing, the ONLY issue is that most of your mates will be pushing so you'll probably be riding on your own a fair bit
  • + 3
 @simooo: My question is how many times can you run it up? Is it even worth over having to load up with your buds on a full days shuttle? Or is this a part of the quiver to only do self shuttle days? But if you are riding solo wouldn't a nice pedal/hike up be more self deserving on a nice dh? Then on the other side of the coin is that having one you could do more laps doing solo self shuttle. But I could see myself possibly being bored with that and a nice healthy pedal wouldn't been more soul rewarding. Or is that too hippie-ish thing to say haha

Either way I don't see myself on one, nor anyone I know and hope I don't see any on my local singletrack trails.
  • + 1
 @sewer-rat: Interesting to see all the GB flags on this one. Different rules in different countries seems to be coming through. Can't really see an issue in the UK, or at least Scotland where I ride anyway. Anyway, I think you've all hit the nail on the head. Uphill assist with long travel bikes, boom!
  • + 4
 I don't know shite... but that doesn't stop me from confidently saying ebikes are a hazard no matter where you put them.
If you build it "trail ready" then it's really just a e-cross bike, and once you start using e-power or gas to "send it" you're no different then moto. Do you honestly think the power output will remain limited? Powered bikes have a very different trail profile so NOMT!!! If you want a powered bike take up moto or commute on a Vespa; ebikes are about as sensible as the amphibious car.
  • + 3
 "You gotta try it, like anything else"

man there is a ton of stuff in the world that I know I dont have to try because they arent for me. Ebikes are one of them. Go ride an actual dirt bike and stay off our pedal access trails. This notion that it makes it easier to get places Irks me as well. Yes, E bikes will make it easier to get to far off trails, but not all of these trails are shuttle trails nor are they ones that any one wants constant and easy access to. Think about your favourite loam stash being destroyed because people can make their way there any time they please with little effort. There is a reason some trails are hard to get to, and thats half the fun.

Im going to go pedal.
  • + 3
 E-bikes are great, I own one. Surly Krampus with a Bionx D500. So much fun! Its my commuter bike so I ride on roads and pathways. I have no intention of riding on trails, that's what my mountain bikes are for. I get why some people would want to go E, but for me, with the added weight, there's no way you're going to have as fun or playful of a ride, especially when gravity takes over. As far as the E-bike goes though, I say the more people riding bikes and leaving cars at home, the better off everyone is!
  • + 3
 The reason for the shit storm is simple - people who hate E-bikes are ashamed of their own fitness level and project a whole lot of personal mishaps and minority complex related issues on a perfect scape goat. It is nothing more but a witch hunt. I do think that if you can't pedal without assist then maybe you do not have what ittakes to survive in mountaineous area, but at the same time, holy crap those things are super fun to ride and I am not going to be the wanker who tells others what kind of bicycle makes them moral human beings.
  • + 7
 We don't need no effing e bikes. Use your own power to get to the chair lifts like everyone else.
  • + 8
 Why does this guy always get so many upvotes? It seems like most of us disagree with him, and he's saying the same thing most people are getting downvoted for.
  • + 14
 @skelldify: the answer is simple - I am spending at least two hours a day up-voting comments of my main account using fake accounts.
  • + 5
 this isn't about jealousy or envy or morality, it's about trail access, and the possibility of losing it.
  • - 8
flag WAKIdesigns (Apr 18, 2016 at 12:09) (Below Threshold)
 @xeren: so you are playing a total underdog card? How much do you need to suck that governmental dick so that they allow you to ride a bike? If you are that afraid, then why not make everyone ride fatbikes which don't erode trails as much as Enduro weapons? They spread the load more evenly and have tons of grip. Why don't you see slack geometry allowing anyone to go fast as a threat? Please... the idiotic legislation, land ownership and military state like Police behavior are the problem. Don't blame E-bikes for shortcomings of American dream.
  • + 5
 @WAKIdesigns: okay, let's follow your crazy logic that it is military state like police behavior that is the problem. doesn't change the fact that trail access in america is tentative. I didn't say it was right or good, i just said how it is. and I didn't say trail erosion was the only cause of trail access issues, either.

stop building straw men to knock down, waki
  • - 6
flag WAKIdesigns (Apr 18, 2016 at 12:22) (Below Threshold)
 @xeren: Sorry, your logic is the logic of a beaten wife trying not to piss off her a-hole husband. Nobody ever achieved anything by just ducking and licking balls of lowest officials. Where was the lobby when Bush was riding MTB with Lance Armstrong on his ranch? I love it how you guys think you can stop development of E-bikes. You do realize how ugly it will get when you will try to fight it? What kind of a-holes MTBers will become when it goes into full swing? E-bikes are here and in that danger you should see an opportunity, you have no other choice.
  • + 7
 @WAKIdesigns: ohhhh, you're a troll. sorry i even tried to talk to you in the first place. I guess everyone has to learn this about you at some point, it's probably a right of passage here, no? I feel better that I can safely ignore everything you say from this point on!
  • - 3
 @xeren: get a gun and start shooting them. For the better future of MTB. Do you also scream at the rain to make it stop falling? Now... how exactly did you plan to insult me by calling me a troll? Thank you for that chunk of sweetness.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: such a cute troll! Such a hilarious impression of a mentally ill person!
  • + 11
 @WAKIdesigns: you're in over your head on this one, dude. I can only speak for what is going on with trail access here in the U.S., following Felton's editorials on Wilderness is just the tip of the iceberg. I believe what @xeren is trying to say is access here is being threatened more and more every day. The coincidal appearance of e-bike popularity with trail closures is probably the worst thing that could happen right now. The corporate machine is feeding (knowingly or not) the shutdown of even more trails..... Hate us here or not (calling us a Police State, passive aggressively mentioning we should use gun violence), we are fighting our own access demons.....
  • + 9
 @WAKIdesigns: sorry dude, I usually like your comments but you're out off your element. @xeren is right, trail access is difficult in the US. It's not a free for all, land owners don't want liability, finding space to build trail legally is rare. I've spent the hours building trail just to have it plowed, I've been ticketed for shuttling on Federal land($275 usd). Too many users, not enough land, everyone trying to get more but don't want to share. Hikers and equestrian are looking for any excuse to ban MTB and ebikes are just more ammo for them. I know they're fun and increase range, but if there aren't any trails you can use them on what's the point?
  • + 1
 @hypermoto: have you tried Bruce Willis?
  • - 8
flag WAKIdesigns (Apr 18, 2016 at 13:05) (Below Threshold)
 I totally see your concerns but all your arguments are irrelevant. E-bikes are the rain that won't stop falling just because you like it to. Corporate machine is pushing E-bikes in exactly same way as everything else. Want nice suspension, dropper posts, take the E-bike - you can't have one without another. And it already happened, they are here and wheels have been put into motion. Legislation system that closes trails for MTBs is sick and E-bikes won't make it any much worse for you. You are already in deep sht. In this climate, even if you get some access back, all it takes is one accident by one a-hole riding over another a-holes kid. As long as you tell me that you present a cold, political stance against e-bikes, I am fine with it.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Ebikes for the totally lazy sloths of society. If they put ashtrays and cigarette lighters on them sales will skyrocket.
  • - 1
 @WAKIdesigns: the most truthful statement ever made on PB
  • + 5
 @WAKIdesigns: I present a cold, politcal stance against E mtb bikes. E bikes on road I don't care about, we have huge hills in the Seattle area and more people would commute on e bikes, traffic is awful so more bikes the better. I make a living selling high end MTB and I'm in an area east of Seattle that has decent trail access, my primary concern is maintaining and expanding access so more people can buy and enjoy what I'm selling. As Jude from Magura stated, it is about money, but in my region e bikes could be a threat to the growth of the mtb community. Also, if you've been following the fight over bicycle access to designated Wilderness Areas, e bikes are another bullet in the clip of the Sierra Club and other anti mtb groups intent on limiting our access wherever possible.
  • + 2
 I could out ride you on pedal a bike with no chain! Riding skill has nothing to do with it you fool. Biking is about earning your results not having something else do the work for you. You LAZY SLOTH. Just go grow some moss.
  • + 0
 @hypermoto. Then the only thing you need to do is to take a stance where you say that you are representing users on non-motorized vehicles and cannot be held responsible for actions of individuals on any form of assisted bicycles. Just stick to the story. Now let's leave demonizing for lowlives prone to crowd dynamics, more eager to burn a nagger than helping an old lady to cross the street.
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: That's all I'm doing for now, and hopefully it doesn't get ugly. As I said, I know they're fun, the increased range and ability to ride to a trail is fantastic. I'm not demonizing/judging anyone for their personal choice in activity, I'd like to see everyone coexist if possible.
  • - 1
 Waki wins!!!! Bingo. The insecurities are plainly evident. Disguised as religious fervor.
  • - 1
 @hypermoto: could be a threat? Seems like a lot of worrying about ghosts and a common reason for being negative. Trail access can be threatened also from misuse by cyclists and illegal trail building as well.
Maybe focus on the actual issues.
  • + 3
 @d-man: We do focus on actual issues, and by doing so have gained more access than ever before. Illegal trail use has been diminished by the building of more aggressive legal trails. We will continue focusing on those issues, but don't need a whole new issue upsetting hikers and equestrians when trail access is already delicate and hotly contested in our area.
  • - 1
 @hypermoto: so how will an equestrian know if someone is riding an ebike? Will a hiker know the difference? I bet not. It seems the bike community is making a bigger deal of this than any one.

I ride my bike with my wife on her horse, no issues.....
  • + 7
 Distracted.... 3:35 to 4:35
  • + 2
 totally
  • + 1
 If only there would not have been that plant...
  • + 3
 Canada burned 56 million tonnes of coal to produce electricity last year. or it might have been the year before. regardless, over 70% of my provinces electricity comes from coal. the argument about electric bikes providing a better environmental alternative to chairlifts or shuttle trucks is suspect to say the least.
I myself have no qualms about someone using an e bike to get to work in the morning. it relieves traffic congestion in its own right, but pie in the sky envirotards are led astray if they feel electric cars or bikes are footprint free.
mtn biking is still in its infancy in relation to other outdoor pursuits like horseback, hiking and even OHV users. it occurred to me the last time I was in moab that, as mtn bikers, I need to make sure my appreciation of trail availability is articulated, and not seen as an entitlement. but I think that putting an electric bike on hiking/biking/equestrian trails could negatively affect the progress mtn biking has made in outdoor pursuits access.
  • + 3
 I'm not buying this argument that these bikes are going to help people who couldn't ride otherwise, be it because of asthma or otherwise. In my area the trails can be very tight and twisty, and there are plenty of steep switchbacks to climb. It takes much more upper body strength and control than some people realize to get a bike over and around everything on the trails here. Just having some extra climbing power is not going to make these trails easy, it takes fitness and practice to go fast. I can't see someone who cant ride a bicycle otherwise, having fun wrestling a 40lb bike through any of this. My prediction is that a lot of these bikes end up covered in dust in the back of a garage in a year or two.
  • + 3
 Ebikes- I'm in!
No to e motorbikes, but seriously who wouldn't want a little 200w motor in the frame that adds a couple of kgs to halve up time and double downtime when out on a ride?
From a bloke who loves DH but hasn't enough childless mates to put together a shuttle bus anymore this style of bike can't come fast enough..
  • + 1
 You got it!!
  • + 6
 Whatever that last guy said on the video I missed, that blonde girl had my attention.
  • + 3
 I have no problem with pedal assisted bikes. As long as they stay PEDAL ASSISTED. But full on electrically driven bikes that let you make throttle inputs without pedaling is a no no to me. That is definitely not a bike but a motorcycle.
  • + 3
 Every rider has the responsibility to not drag their breaks in corners or to avoid riding sloppy conditions leading to environmental impacts or accidental injuries. How many videos do we see every day of fools roosting loom and cutting new lines? Pedal assist bikes cause the same amount of damage as regular bikes. Stupid people using trails should be receiving all this hate and not people supporting the LBS and getting out using trails. The more people that use trails (responsibly), the more likely that the area’s usage will be embraced and hopefully invested in by nature users and trail builders. Obviously we should be against motorbikes on mtb trails. But PEDAL ASSIST bikes only work when you pedal; we should think of them as just better geared bikes with electric shifting. This hate on their weight or green factor is ridiculous. Stop hating because someone is having double the fun you are covering way more ground in shorter amounts of time, or because someone puts biking high on their list of priorities and is willing to shell out more cash than you for high end bikes. If you’re crying because you worked hard to only use muscle power, go ride xc or enduro. Trail access will only be harmed and limited due to stupid people being irresponsible, and that can also be applied to the discriminating tone of children posting here, poopy horses, and illegal moto and atv’s trespassors. Pedal assist bikes are not an issue to hate on (all other motor bikes I agree should not be allowed for many reasons). I respect one’s opinion to choose not to ride an ebike, but you’re ignorant for hating PEDAL ASSISTED bikes if you’ve never tired one.
  • + 3
 E-bikes: as long as it gets asses on saddles, er I mean saddles IN asses, its a BIG plus for cycling.
Haters were saying the same shit about:
Dropper posts, 29ers, 650b, front suspension, full suspension, airplanes, the internal combustion engine, the light bulb, AC current, the invention of the wheel, Kraft Dinner, sweet potatoes. The earth is round like a sphere, not flat like your head.......
  • + 2
 Working near a Park in town this Saturday,went to the van to get some tools and noticed some dude on a new ktm e bike.thought what a plonker until he went up a hill in hyperdrive.im 45 this year,knees are fxcked,backs fxcked...whats wrong with a little help up the hills for the oldies?ive done my time going ten to the dozen,blowing my bollocks out up hills.feck it,if orange do one I'm in.
  • + 2
 You say e-bike, I say they have their place, just like mountain bikes, road bikes, track bikes, bmx bikes, cyclocross bikes, clunkers, beach cruisers.... To each their own, I'll ride what works for me, you ride what works for you.
  • + 13
 What if you riding what works for you gets both of us (and everybody else on a MTB) kicked out of our trail systems?
  • + 4
 @thrasher2: And that's why motorized vehicles are prohibited on MTB trails systems. I never suggested e-bikes should be on our trails. It's simple: if it has a motor, it's prohibited. I don't get all the e-bike hate. I don't want one, but does that mean I'm obligated to get my panties in a wad over other people that do?
  • + 4
 E-fatbikes let you ride motocross/atv trails with very little noise and very little environmental footprint, and also still fits into your honda civic
  • + 0
 I agree. e-fatbikes make sense. they are already slow and heavy and have limited applications. some e-assist word be great for hunting trips or riding through snow.
  • + 1
 Everyone to busy saying F*ck that to see the possibilities
  • + 2
 E-bikes will hasten the nearly inevitable end of mountain bikes in multi-use parks and community forests where pedestrians and equestrians are common. I say hasten because the capabilities of modern mountain bikes have given us the capability to ride so much faster and there is likely to be a tsunami wave of anti-bike protests that makes everything to date look like a wave in the kiddie pool. Like or not, we are most likely to be relegated to bike only trails, which will be exponentially harder to find/get to and keep. My bicycle is so much faster than my moto everywhere that is pointed downhill, with no two-stroke sound to warn other trail users-sorry to be a Monday downer...
  • + 2
 I see everyone has understood the problem here and that E-bikes could be a potential solution for a small portion of people, yet you quickly dismissed that small portion. Yes it is money, but so is Boost 148 and 15x110 and everything else that has popped up in the last few years. If it were innovation, it would not have stirred so much drama on Pinkbike.
The portion of the people who want an E-bike are those with some disabilities, or are a bit too old, but since they are a small number, they should be muted all together? Come on, our community is better than that! I realise that E-Mtb can cause some problems in the wooded areas, but in the city an E-bicycles is just a phenomenal idea. I am 23, pedalling up the hill, sweating like crazy, trying to get to Uni for my lectures, then an old lady whizzes by on an E-bike without beating a sweat. She is clearly over 60 and she is pedalling, not lugging 2 tonnes of S-Class with her, she chose to move! As far as E-Mtb goes, 60 yeard old dudes with full faces on and knee pads are just awesome!
And don't forget, we do it all of the same reasons, to have a blast and escape the mundane reality of the metropolis. Smile
  • + 1
 I have to chuckle about a 60 year old granny overtaking you, that's quite cool in its own way. Like your comments too by the way, mtb used to be a friendly crowd, is it now?
  • + 3
 The "infrastructure and LEGISLATION isn't there'?
California recently LEGALIZED pedal-assist e-bikes(which is predominantly what's being offered) on every trail bicycles are legal on.
  • + 2
 The legislation is jacked and all over the place though. California leaves it up to the county or local governments to permit or ban either of the Class 1,2,or 3 on bike paths and trails so it's not quite a black and white ruling. Some states vary quite a bit in how they wrote their legislation too. I guess time will tell if this gets ironed out correctly or it has a negative impact.
  • + 2
 It makes sense ! It's like another electronic consumer good, that has an expiry date ! Genius.... They applefied the mountain bike!

It's funny how doing things right make you an "elitist" then what does that make all the lazy $uckheads that will be assisted by electric motors..... ?

What happens to the .001% disabled bloke and the heart defect guy and Ashma girl when their ebike fails 30km from home? Royal screwed I think...
  • + 2
 I don't have time to read all this but i happened to be standing there at the SOC when a group of E Bikers were heading out for a Spec demo ride. I was surprised that the 3 things the leader said was that they don't go unless you are pedaling, they use SRAM shifters and the dropper post piston is on the left. Another cat rolled up to the SC tent on an electrified carbon V10....not judgmental but they are about as cool as the electric skateboards the tech kooks are riding around by hood in traffic
  • + 6
 Just because you can exploit doesn't mean you should
  • + 2
 Have any of you ridden one? I didn't think so. I have been testing a Bultaco Brinco, they are incredible and make MTB more enjoyable, and we get to do more of the bit we like, going downhill fast.

They don't rip the trails up like a moto, those on here who say that is the case clearly have not ridden or even seen one of these bikes (I ride MX and dirtbikes so I know what I am talking about).

E Bikes help get you up the hill quicker so you can enjoy the fun part and get back downhill more often, and no they don't rip the trail up, slow riders who are on the brakes all the time do that. I only MTB with lift served or uplift days, am not interested in pedalling uphill 2 hours for 15 mins of descent. They are coming and will not go away and are far more green than me being bussed up a hill 8 times on uplift days.

They are a no brainer for me - my NukeProof Mega will be in the for sale section soon...
  • + 5
 F UCK ebikes! Death to the Fat Worthless Lazy Asswipes; that ride them, make them, sell them and advocate for them!
  • + 2
 Be aggressive with eBike owners when you see them at trails. Let them know they aren't wanted.
  • - 2
 Bet you get one Wink
  • + 2
 I agree with the whole shuttling thing to a certain degree. If people only rode up the roads with the electric pedal assist and then had no power to the cranks on the way down. This would never happen though. People would just smash up the trail with the power from the engine. Basically, if you are on single track I don't want anybody using an engine. Use it on the road and I don't care.
  • + 2
 I happened to be at Sea Otter this year and after racing Enduro on Thursday I test rode an e-mountain bike.
Pro: Very fast up hill with peddle assist - 20% grades at 12mph. Cover more distances in less time - try 2.5x for climbing. New sport up hill charging. Rides like mountain bike and looks like one. Self shuttling of sorts.
Cons: creating even further issue between bikers and everyone else. Destroying fitness requirements for a big ride. Adding additional cost / inequality in an industry that continues to cater to wealthy. Need new trails and legislation.
Verdict: Wait for law makers to decide on legality of these new wips. Determine if your trail is friendly. Be ready to sacrifice your work routine for additional shreding time. Do you really need a motor -between your legs - is your body not capable in propeling you to new hights? Maybe a motorcycle is a better solution?
  • + 2
 If a moped is legal on your trails go for it. Its motorized and should be viewed as such. The thing about mountain biking is it isn't easy. If you arnt fit enough to push yourself whats going to happen when you blow a chain up and are forced to start hiking. I am Very tempted to build up a long wheel base e bike for around town and hauling a few things on. But mountain biking is hard and should stay that way.
  • + 3
 Also my favorite comments are always about the limit power availible and top speed. Like those things won't get modded. In an ideal world they wouldnt be a problem. In this world filled with jackholes, it will lead to trail access issues amd closures.
  • + 2
 All of these same arguments were made by road cyclist about mountain bikes and downhill bikes and I swear I saw all of these about fat bikes just a year or two ago. If you enjoy what you are doing, don't change. I can see reasonable regulations like limiting the use of throttles and only pedal assist (except for special situations) and power limits. I do not get the whole argument that they will ruin the trails when every video on every bike site has people locking up their back tire and blowing up the corners. No one is stopping anyone from using spiked snow tires are they? I know that there are fights out west for access and compromises have to be made. Rules have to be made for the morons who can not use common sense and effect everyone else but don't think about making a rule to protect people from themselves.
  • + 2
 I truly love the feeling of burning lungs and legs as well as having the lightest bike so the ride feels responsive and playfull. I'm in my mid twenties and I'd never consider an e-bike, plus they look awfull and weight a ton.
But when my dad said two weeks ago that he would like to be able to follow my pace and ride with me on the trails longer than the average 25 miles he's doing I started to look at e-bikes the other ways.
A dad's friend of mine said the same thing, that he would'nt have bought a motorcycle if he wou'd still be able to pedal on hard climbs (he's suffering from a knee injury).

It's very difficult to get an absolut answer to e-bike: Yes or no? I say no but one has sometimes reasons you can't deny to say yes.
  • + 1
 E-bikes are bikes with motors, aka motor bikes. To some other (influential) user groups there is no difference between motor-e-mountainbikes. E-mtb bikes make the argument that mountain bikes are the the same as motor bikes a true statement. That is bad for everyone who wants to ride on trails. What mountain bikers think of e-bikes doesn't really matter all that much.
  • + 1
 e-bikes...like riding your moto on your local hiking/biking trails...
Meth...high for hours, tons of energy, feel like superhero.
Both sound fun, useful, and like you could get a lot done in a little bit of time. Both highly likely to cause more harm than good.
But accord to Mr. Specialized:
DONT KNOCK IT TILL YOU TRY IT.
what a moron...

I'll choose to never try either...
  • + 3
 You say e-bike, I say F*#k it! Might as well be a dirt-bike of sorts. Mountain biking is home of man power, not electric motor!
  • + 1
 I think that there needs to be a serious distinction made in the types of ebikes, because they're not all the same. You have ebikes that behave like electric mopeds that you you can pedal, and you have pedal assist ebikes. I think the moped style bikes have no place on human powered mtb trails because the rider does not have direct leg provided power output to the rear wheel. Pedal assist bikes on the other hand are fine in my view, as the bike goes no where unless youre pedaling, it's still a bike. In short, electric mopeds that you can pedal arn't bikes, but pedal assist e bikes are bikes.
  • + 1
 What's trying it got to do with it though?

For example, if somebody is against it because they think having e-bikes on regular mtb trails with make it harder to work out land access deals in the future because they have motors, I don't see how riding one first is going to change that. It might make you like it a little more, but the fact remains.

Unless your reasoning for disliking them is something like "they're lame", then the call to "try it before you criticize it" doesn't make much sense. But who knows, maybe that is the reason most people don't like them?
  • + 2
 I dont want to see one more trail closure! But during this past years Turkey day ride the dude from MTBR was riding an e-bike towing a guy riding a shit bike who was towing a keg of Lagunitas passing people riding uphill!!
  • + 1
 I quit mtbr because they are so pro ebike.
  • + 1
 @SteveDekker: Can you tow a keg uphill? Think of the possibilities? I cant even stand roadies never mind e-bikes cluttering the trails!
  • + 1
 @SteveDekker: I cant even stand the thought of electronic shifting!
  • + 1
 The issue with e-bikes is there is no control over what they are and how they are used. A responsible rider might use them to help get up a hill (which is fine) but a irresponsible rider will use them to double their speed on a flat section, making jumps where it wasn't there before, ripping up sections of track and being a hazard to other users (not fine). Also what about the KW power limits. What's to stop someone putting a 20kw motor on a bike, as realistically there aren't going to be inspectors at each trail to turn you away if you have an overpowered bike.
  • - 1
 Thats not the issue, and a responsible rider would say... f uck ebikes.
  • + 1
 www.imba.com/sites/default/files/eMTB%20Study%20Fact%20Sheet%20.pdf

FIELD STUDY HYPOTHESES AND INITIAL RESULTS
IMBA developed these hypotheses for this small initial study (one site, with one set of environmental conditions):
• Physical impacts to trails from eMTBs will likely fall somewhere between those caused by mountain bikes and motorcycles. We expect that they will much more closely resemble those of mountain bikes.
• We expect that eMTBs may lead to more soil displacement under certain conditions, such as
through turns, including bermed turns; on ascents and descents; and where there are abrupt changes in trail conditions.
Initial observations suggest good support for the field study hypotheses. We saw some differences between the impacts of eMTBs and mountain bikes, particularly at turns and grade changes. However, for the most part, the soil impacts observed in this study were not greatly different from those of mountain bikes, and were much less than those associated with motorcycle use.
IMBA has not completed the analysis of study data, but initial observations appear to support our hypotheses under this limited set of conditions. The results of the land manager survey and social impacts analysis are still being compiled. The entire study will be completed by the end of 2015.
IMBA has worked very hard to define mountain biking as non-motorized. IMBA recognizes that eMTBs, particularly those equipped with Type 1 pedal-assist are substantially different from other motorized uses, and may warrant a separate category and new management strategies.
IMBA does not have an advocacy interest in the eMTB study, but is leading this study as a respected partner of land management agencies, to further knowledge about recreational trails, and to inform future discussions with members, chapters, land mangers, the bike industry, and other user groups.
  • + 1
 They said the same thing about MTB's.... Hey are you a trailwalker? who let you in here?
  • + 4
 You say ebike, I say just buy a motorbike. If your going to twist throttle, then twist some throttle!
  • + 1
 i did a little Bion x ad segment 8 years ago www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVNusw2nIXQ ( 20 sec in, im that guy trying to turn that wierd 3 Wheeler in slow motion ) i have to say it's very fun to ride , do i want to hear people yelling MAKE ROOM
  • + 1
 and get passed by 2-3 guys on e-bikes on the way up .....I GET 'EM ON THE WAY DOWN BUT ... fun to ride , in the trails ... meh ....
  • + 1
 E-bike? LAZY! yeah you can go up the hills without pedaling and I'm a Downhiller so believe me i get it up hills suck but its MTB and I don't think they can build a bike were you can drive up the mountain and ride it like really hard and push it on a gnarly downhill or endure trail and the weight factor on the decent. Lets make gnarlier downhills, endure slope styles first, just my opinion (to the hates that watch the last clip in this video i have ridden one before)
  • + 5
 No more e-tards please. Lol.
  • + 1
 @Earthmotherfu: Yeah, I forgot a couple things, Haters were saying the same thing about........ehemmm.....

Disk Brakes, television, radio, space travel, disputing whether the earth orbits the sun or vise versa, if the moon was made of cheese or not, electric guitars, acoustic guitars, condoms, alcohol, hamburgers, allowing women to vote, allowing women to read, allowing women to speak.......
  • + 2
 pinkbike, you step up more information more video that's great. i only hope that you will get a boot at mont ste anne to continu great coverage of the wonderfull mountain bike scene
  • + 1
 Reminds me of the time I went to a local trail and there was a guy who'd crashed on his E-bike and broken his leg. The bike was way too powerful for the trail. E-bikes don't have a place on the majority of trails IMO. If E-bike specific trails were created then it's a different matter but at the present time it's a no from me.
  • + 1
 we're going to see a LOT more injuries on ebikes, not just because of the power, but because the people who buy them (or at least, the ones i've come across on the trails) have very little mtb knowledge. they will get in over their heads on the downhills and crash. I just pray they don't run into some poor hiker and ruin mtb access for us all on that trail
  • + 1
 Really? It wasn't because of skill level? Or poor decisions? A ferrari is to fast for most roads then right?
  • + 1
 @d-man: The Ferrari example is not a particularly good example to come back with. Driving a Ferrari round normal roads would be significantly easier (in relative comparison) than using an E-bike on tight single track. E-bikes weigh significantly more than a normal bike so there is more weight to move around underneath you. In a Ferrari the car has power steering, ceramic brakes and endless amounts of suspension technology. Comparing the two is just plain stupid. This might not be particularly well explained but I hope people understand what I'm trying to get at.
  • + 2
 @d-man: 9.9% of Ferarris end up in a crash. Google it. So basically, your argument proves his point.
  • + 1
 @sevensixtwo: no, my point is it is driver issue not the car....
  • + 1
 As with all things in life they have their place once you look past the sneery stigma. Some people may not have the ability to ride far and long and if it gives them the ability to get out there and explore so be it. Guys at 2:43 & 4:00 made good points and an open minded argument.
  • + 1
 I say, I don't live in the sh*thole community of Marin county anymore, I live in an area where being a reasonable human being is the main requirement, and in 40 years when I'm 70, I'll take the pedal assist to keep my @$$ still on the trails, thank you.
  • + 1
 I'll be pedaling at 70. Prob on lighter duty stuff.
  • + 1
 If someone needs an electric assist to help them compensate for a disability (being out of shape does not count), then it should be designed/marketed as an after market accessory for an existing bike. When an able bodied person is tooling around on one, it should be viewed with the same amount of contempt as the a*shole who thoughtlessly parks in the handicap spot.
  • + 2
 Anyone buying an E bike is going to have lots of fun trying to fly and travel with it.. they are banned on most passenger airlines due to the batteries.. leave e-bikes for roads ,towns and city riding imo
  • + 1
 Easy, just post the battery to your destination a couple of weeks in advance. Oh hang on that might not work either, doh!
  • + 1
 You say ebike I say whatever. I thought they were the devil incarnate for a long time, but now that I've actually ridden a few and tried on on a trail I can't say they're that big a deal. They don't deliver much, if any more power than a strong rider. They're heavy and noticeably cumbersome when descending and in tight spots. They're probably slower on technical climbs for that reason. I don't think they have any more ability to cause issues than a regular bike. It's all about who's riding it.
  • + 1
 I urinate on your derailleur, and spray silicone on your cardigan, I will defecate on the hood of your shiny BMW while crabs the size of cockroaches crawl around your balls and eat, as I delight in the bloody piles that torment you. May the acid of a thousand Ebikes corrode your gears and the arrogant "my trails" stance that permeates the purists state of mind.
  • + 3
 E-bikes and gearboxes on the rise, why don't we all just ride motocross bikes instead
  • + 1
 you should - MX is great
  • + 1
 Funny timing on this, because I just read this article from the New York Times this morning:

www.nytimes.com/2016/04/19/sports/cycling/with-a-discreet-motor-doping-the-bike-instead-of-the-cyclist.html
  • + 1
 Not sure why the link isn't clicky.
  • + 4
 I knew that "f*ck that" was coming, lol.
  • + 0
 E-commuting around town? That's none of my business. E-mountain biking on my local trails? Now we've got a problem. Whether they're "pedal-assist" or "all electric," these things will wreak havoc on multi-use trails. Intense user-conflict has always ended up closing trails to bikes.
  • + 0
 Wow...so much anger! Facts are that electric bikes are becoming very popular all over the world for a variety of reasons and little can be done to stop consumer demand for them. Calling people fat and lazy isn't going to help. Google "Rhonda Martin YouTube" and see how an electric bicycle helped her lose over 250 lbs.
If you are lazy, just click on this link
www.pedegoelectricbikes.com/customer-stories/living-instead-of-existing
  • + 4
 Can we all agree on calling them e-mopeds? E-Mop? Moppet-E?
  • + 1
 Came across a guy on ebike the other day he looked refreshed without a drip of sweat on him. Good for him, I enjoy riding my bike and some of it is up hill or shuttle.wouldn't want a fifty pound bike on way down or up
  • + 0
 I rode two different e-bikes at sea otter... I must say I was not the least bit impressed by the frame design on either of the bikes, they are HEAVY, when pulling up on the bars they do not manual, they just seem to stay glued to the ground. Although I was able to get up to 38mph on the flat and 52 on the hills, which was neat and I'm sure security didn't appreciate it. The bottom line is that anyone who needs a bike to ride like, well, a bike... Then you should look elsewhere. E-bikes; they are great if you're old and decrepit.
  • + 0
 Surley better than logging for lift service or shutteling with cars and great for people with some disadvantage or older ones. But as long as i`m fit enough i`ll pedal and let the mountainbiking be what it`s ment to be- Getting out there with your own power!
  • + 1
 Where I live we are blessed with hundreds of miles of moto trails and multi use trails open to moto. I believe that there is a place for ebikes. As long as that place is open for motorized use.
  • + 0
 I keep asking myself why these companies are forcing e-mopeds mountain bikes instead than e-mopeds for
city transportation.
I assume the market would be 100+ times bigger.

So why don't they go that route? Reduce carbon foot-print? Less traffic and better life quality?

Because the car lobby is way more powerful and as soon as city e-mopeds will be released in force, they will push for insurance, license, helmet etc. On all bicycles.

E-mopeds for off road will have the same result, license, limited trail access, insurance etc.
  • + 0
 Yeti guy gets it, Ibis guy gets it, even the cop gets it. Then you have the pro-ebikers making excuses and fabricating reasons for why it is okay. Pathetic to suggest it will replace shuttling as if that will make up for all the negatives. What happens when the ebikers climb the downhill trails? They collide with a downhill rider and then claim victim saying that the uphill rider should have right of way. I'm just waiting for the first lawsuit on that one. The greedy guts just see dollar signs, and figure if people try it and like it, then they get richer, andthey give zero craps about what happens to the trails or the trail access.
  • + 1
 e-bikes have to stay on orv trails only. i don't understand why there is such a controversy. if you aren't into gasoline powered motos or quads, e-bikes look fun as hell.
  • + 1
 Great if they help a few disabled people get on a bike... But all I see is more trails being closed to bikes because we will inevitably all be grouped together.
  • + 1
 Please note: sea otter 2017 will officially be a motorcycle festival...
All jerseys must be made from black leather or at least denim and must have tassels along the arm...
  • + 0
 just wait until you get to the bottom of the trail and your buddy hits the pedal assist to get to the top. two choices at that point, stop riding with that person or get an e bike.
  • + 3
 Just wait until your buddy drops dead from a heart attack; you outlive him by 50 years. Remember!
Friends don't let friends ride ebikes.
  • + 1
 Playing Devil's advocate... Someday I may need the assistance of an e-bike to ride the trails that I love. I think for the right people and the right reasons they are OK.
  • + 3
 Money...we've become pathetic.
  • - 1
 As long as I don't lose any more wheel options I don't care.and obviously e/mtb can't replace a traditional pedaling bicycle. I wouldn't mind trying it out but I don't want to have to be flying down a trail and have to go off trail because there's some a hole riding up a downhill only trail because he can via e/mtb.
  • + 3
 First guy- Bike Industry Ted Cruz
  • + 0
 hey look at me! "i have an e-bike... why go all the way around, if i can just throttle up the actual trail and do it all again??" prepare yourselfs to make new e-biker friends by accident...
  • + 1
 Have you seen that Florian Golay hasard just been crowned winner of the "shimano epic enduro" on a E-bike.
Industry is pushing really hard here in Europe...
  • + 3
 3:55 to 4:35 only ass .....PornBike
  • + 3
 First dude has never pedaled a bike in his life.
  • + 3
 I reckon you don't know Jude.
  • - 1
 I NEED an Ebike because I am disabled. Specifically, I have Over-active Fork Syndrome. I also suffer from terminal sarcasm and low levels of empathy. I will be setting up a Greed-Me account to fund research in ways to fight these horrible conditions. Stay tuned for the official announcement. Please help! (Every down vote causes me to eat more chocolate so please consider my plight before you click!)
  • + 3
 You say e-bikeI say go fack yourself
  • + 2
 Anti e-bikers....you mad bro?
  • + 0
 If I wanted to ride a self-propelled mountain bike, I would just go ride my moto bike. It has more power and in many cases longer range.
  • + 1
 Did I miss something? where is the market demand for ebikes? Who is asking for them?
  • - 2
 I like to be my own limitatio when i ride all day long, but some assits have sure crossed my mind a few times while pushing the DH up mountains, or if the "sercive-road" up to the local flowy singletrack is really long. More runs is more progress.

E-bike for older and the disalebd is fine with me for sure, why should they not be able to enjoy some of the fun i can?

I would judge a normal person if i see them on a full blown E-moto on my tails, but if they dont destroy the trails then be my guest.
  • + 1
 I say e-bike, I think pug it into a socket powered by electricity powered by coal!
  • + 1
 engines drive, motors are driven(electrically or otherwise)... for f*ck sake stop saying ebikes have engines
  • + 2
 It has a motor so it's not a bicycle.
  • - 2
 Last dude summed it up well. I'm keen to try one and possibly purchase as a green replacement for my dirt bike. There is something appealing about getting some help on a trail sometimes but from a quiet, green "machine".
The trail access issue is worrisome though so I'm going to see how it shakes out.
  • + 8
 How is an e-bike "green?"
  • + 6
 There's nothing green in e-bikes. An old 2 stroke MX bike is probably greener as it may be 10 year old or more and still ride well while an e-bike won't last more than a few years due to it's batteries (that we won't be able to recycle by the way...).
  • + 1
 @KRVZ: Yeah yeah. Nothing is truly "green" I get it. But riding silently through the woods on a off highway vehicle trail on an e-bike IS waaaay easier on the environment than a true dirt bike.
P.S. I love the shit out of my dirt bike : )
  • + 2
 its not a weapon ?? you sure about that ?
  • + 2
 Get a MX bike and stop fouling yourself.
  • + 2
 I wonder how many comments by the time I hit submit?
  • + 1
 E-Bikes... Reminds me of the movie Wall-E, that's where we are heading, automate everything, lol ! Facepalm
  • + 1
 Also what's wrong with Skynyrd?
  • + 1
 Exactly, Sir, am I right in saying they have no vowels in their whole band name?
  • - 1
 I borrowed an e bike to bar crawl and it was great! drunk 2 am hauling ass through Seattle. So much fun.. You can get dui's on a bike.... that's experience talking.
  • + 1
 Curtis Keens mildly starring at that girl in the background...
  • + 1
 I ALSO HAVE A REALLY STRONG OPINION THAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO KNOW
  • + 1
 if you don't like then, don't use them.
  • - 3
 Thats not the point, tinymind
  • - 1
 @SteveDekker: exactly but when people gets offended or insult because of others points of view is better not to listen, so thanks for the "tiny mind" I can see you are a very well educated person not worth arguing with you.
  • + 1
 E bikes can fondle my rancid salty monkey nutz! :-D
  • - 1
 Im not prejudice or narrow minded, I can see why they would but I wouldn't have one because right now, right now people, they are Fuuuuuuuuglyyyy!!!!!
  • + 1
 Mean while Curtis Keene just chilling in the background.
  • + 1
 as the great Bob Marley once wrote "you gotta stand up for your rights"
  • + 1
 On the day one of those will pass me by, what will i do??
  • + 1
 Kill it before they multiply!!
  • - 3
 Aside of the hot topic, @vernonfelton - if there will ever be a MTB top gear kind of thing (maybe e-gear? 12th gear? MTBeer) then you should be the no1 choice to be in it. I am a fan. Take Seb Kemp and Levy with you hahaha Big Grin
  • + 0
 i do like the shuttling elimination point of view.
  • + 2
 I could see them being allowed on trail systems where the uphill is a paved/gravel road, but only if the E-assist is turned off for the trails.
I still think it's a slippery slope. The anti-bike crowd will point to increased trail erosion due to increased number of runs in a day.
  • + 1
 @thrasher2: the added weight will ruin trails and jumps will have to be redesigned because of all the weight. Not a good idea at all. Go to a bike Park or a shuttle trail or ride up
  • + 5
 @jonokonko: "the added weight will ruin trails"? That's dumb. The motor and battery weigh what, like 10 kg tops? That's less than the weight difference between different riders. Do you also complain that people weighing more than you ruin trails? Do you keep yourself skinny so as to minimize your impact on the trails?
I also don't see why jumps would need to be redesigned.
  • + 1
 @Pedro404: actually yeah I agree. That was sorta of a dumb project, what I meant to say is that an e-bike will be harder to handle because of the added weight.
  • + 1
 @jonokonko: Yeah, I'm wondering about that. It definitely would be different and harder to wrestle around than a lighter bike, but all the weight should be fairly low and centered. The haibike downhill ebike weighs 24 kg, which is the same weight as some regular DH bikes from the era of Monster Ts, so obviously it's rideable. And I imagine the bikes will get even lighter with time.
  • + 1
 @Pedro404: My 180mm Haibike is due shortly. Would you like me to drop you a note to let you know how it rides? Cheers
  • + 1
 @john260164: Yeah, sure! I'm not in the market for one until they get seriously cheaper or until I'm way lazier/older/weaker/richer, but I'm interested in how they feel.
  • + 1
 @Pedro404: I'll do my best to remember, but along with failing legs comes failing memory!!
  • - 1
 e-bikes will be as detrimental to trails as geared FS bikes have been. Rigid fixed-gear 4 lyfe!
  • + 0
 I get what you're saying
  • + 0
 It would be a great idea if it didn't cost 3x as much as used xr400.
  • + 0
 keep them in europe
  • + 10
 We don't want these here either !!!!
  • - 3
 You say e bike i say AHHH!!! GAAAAYYY
  • - 3
 e-bikes don't destroy trails, is the people who ride them.
  • - 3
 the problem is they are silent and when they come up on you it is alarming.
  • + 4
 And thats different from a regular bicycle????
  • + 1
 A badly needed bit of humour at last. Thank you. Why is everyone so serious these days?
  • - 2
 HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA MY GOD that girl looks so stupid
Below threshold threads are hidden

Post a Comment



Copyright © 2000 - 2018. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.176298
Mobile Version of Website