Industry Digest: Tektro Electronic Shifting, Battery Recycling, Stem Lawsuits & More

 Would power steering lead to a trend of narrower bars?

 And then I expect numerous posts and articles about how much more hydrated people are with "e-bottles" because their lives are so busy and their time to hydrate is so short that they could never get that hydrated with a regular bottle. OR that they hydrate at the same rate as a professional and they need an "e-bottle" because on their rest days they still need to drink as much as their active days and they can't be expected to just moderate their drinking, no: they need an "e-bottle" so they can hydrate at the same high level every day! And then if someone points out how stupid that is because technically if they are "drinking", then it doesn't matter if they are drinking from a regular bottle or an "e-bottle" they are still "drinking".

Then I expect them to tell us how they only hydrate for FUN, and it doesn't matter to them if the whole point of "drinking" is to "drink", no they need an "e-bottle" because they only hydrate to have a good time and whether they "drink" or not isn't really important. Besides they have a regular bottle they drink from all the time and the only reason they bought an "e-bottle" is because all of their riding buddy's have "e-bottles" and they don't want to be the only one holding back everyone else when their hydrating together.

And anyway, if you don't support their decision to "e-bottle" your just a hater OR your too poor to afford one. And you can't even really understand hydration unless you've hydrated with an "e-bottle". Plus all the pro's "e-bottle" and obviously if they need to "e-bottle" then so do the rest of us. Also i should point out that ALL the pro's use smaller bottles which can be proven because there was an article with 2 or 3 cases of pro's who prefer to use a smaller bottle. So obviously the bottle industry and evil marketers are just trying to shove newer bigger bottles on us when they have no real benefit to the average hydrater.

that's insomnia for you...

 @HardtailHerold: Who needs bars. Self driving e-bikes for the ultimate mountain bike experience.

 It's called a Foam Dome stupid

 @stiingya: nice take on the ‘problem’

Oh and Try writing down some of the days issues before bed, it sometimes helps for the de stress to gain sleep.

 @stiingya: Perfect example of how satire cuts through bullshit arguments like nothing else.

 @stiingya: you don't have e-bottle. But there are many apps that remember you have to ingest some water, so there is that.

 Skip the mouth altogether with an IV. A banana bag would fit perfectly in a hydration pack.

 @Notmeatall: I've always wondered if these apps will also remind you when it's time to pee from all the water they encourage you to drink.

 @beeeefkirky: YES! All the fluid and electrolytes with no fuss. Frame designers would never have to worry about fitting a water bottle again.

 @noapathy: My favourite app notification was when I first got my Samsung watch years back. I was watching sports and I get this alert that said "Get Moving," which I promptly ignored. A few minutes later I got up to grab a beer from the fridge, then my watch alerted me again with, "Well done!"
I love my watch. . .

 @stiingya: If you're against e-bottles then you better still dig your own well by hand and haul your needed water in buckets to your home. Any use of plumbing means that you're a hypocrite. The e-bottle is just the natural extension of progress.

 @chriskneeland: this type of technological advancement would have greatly benefitted the woman with the loose stem

 the ultimate electric experience is to simply go for a ride in the metaverse

 @stiingya: I'm sticking with my acoustic water bottle

 @stiingya: one day mtb will be completely virtual. the chair you sit in will stimulate muscles to simulate physical exertion, sensory inputs will be put into your brain to make you think you are experience g's or the dropping sensation, and you will have the on-the-fly choices to specify tire size, hub loudness, pivot linkage position, rear derailleurs or gearboxes, coil or air suspension, all so you can come on pinkbike and rant in the comments section and get high fives from yer virtual buds.

 A smart hydration pack with an IV line…

 70.000 for over the bars crash...We meet a Taiwanese guy riding in Madrid,he crashed hard and had a broken wrist while ridding with us. We take it to the nearest hospital and the guy was amazed the paper work was none existent,nobody cares about if the guy was x or y country. He walked away amazed by public health care. He had a bad experience in US soil years ago and was scared about medical care expenses going to the roof.
I don´t know how the real cost of a broken wrist or arm,but man has you said you could build a house with that money easy.

 @homerjm: Hospitals are free in Spain, brits were flying there to get operated.

 @zoobab2: thats funny. its an ongoing right wing issue in the UK that people "come over here" to abuse our free medical system, but you dont hear much about the brits that do it elsewhere

 @ElGatoGales: so you got paggered 19 years ago, stayed 19 years and still complain

 @ElGatoGales: OK - so my experience as a Brit smashing myself up on my bike in Spain is that I received first class care at several clinics and hospitals and never were any paperwork or charges presented. Thank you Spain!

Also I worked as an MTB guide in Spain and we took several British damaged riders to the local emergency clinic - no waiting, no fuss, no bills.

As I said - this is my experience only...

Note - This was the Basque Country - maybe the Spaniards are more 'tired' of Brits in other parts of Spain...

 @ElGatoGales: We can talk about some areas "Brits" live in Spain,most of them are literally segregated of the rest of the country/people and that is a big problem. I bet it was not in Madrid or Burgos,it was in the mediterranean area or the islands.
I´m tired of working in "rich getto places" all over the coast,same for Portugal. Some areas get their population multiplied by 10 easy in summer or even more crazy numbers. Spain is not a perfect country by any mean,but your story had some points we can talk about very very long.
Anyway I´m sorry about your personal experience.

 @zoobab2: Spain was and it is still perfect place for old people to buy a second house near the Mediterraneo,Andalucia or the Islands and enjoy the good weather and chill a life. With some money you could have a way of living very difficult to find in any other place.
Not the most perfect country in the world but many tourist love it and came back to retire here.

 @captainian: Yup. I snapped my femur in 2 places on a riding trip to Spain. I spent 12 days in hospital in Motril and the treatment I received there was superb and totally free (pre Brexit). Despite only having the most basic understanding of Spanish (una cerveza por favor was about as far as it went), the kindness shown to me by people visiting others in the same ward as me was truly humbling (as an example, one girl visiting the person in the bed next to me went and spent 17 euros on a Spanish/English dictionary for me and flat out refused to accept any money for it).
I shudder to think how a non English speaking person would be treated by a lot of Brits if they were to find themselves in that same position here.

 @QuinceyDavidson: I do not think the UK people abuse the system here,but in some places holiday time is like a URSS invasion in terms of only numbers...So it is difficult to manage I think.
Many UK residents pay their things here,let a ton of cash and work here,so it is a question of balance in some places.

 And yet 'Muricans keep shitting on our social systems here in Europe. None of this would happen around here in first place because the accident would not have cost that women a dime and if she couldn't work would have had it covered. I lived in Ireland for few years, despite being a European country they have a very liberal system and it made me appreciate even more what we have in France and fought for for generations.

 @Balgaroth: I find Americans defending their healthcare system and claiming it to be superior to Europe's is hilarious.
I can buy Zovirax cold sore cream from my local chemist for under £5. One Canadian holidaying in California paid $2500 through his insurance for that same sized tube.

www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus-20150306-column.html

 @captainian: I worked as MTB guide too for many many years and we always had a private insurance for all the people for just the activity. It is very very cheap (like 2 or 3 €) and you are good to go if something serious happen like you run over someone or crash onto something valuable.
I have to said I always take good care of the riders and never had a serious one while guiding people,but it happen and you must be ready. We even had a crash protocol/extraction protocol to deal whit these situations.

In Spain if you f*ck up yourself ridding we would take care of you free. And yes,if you are a "drunken Brit" in Magaluz they would be very tired of you,same drunken people stuff all over the place...

 @Balgaroth: it's all a stupid-ass cycle. Woman sues bike company to cover her medical bills... Bike companies (and bike parks, and trails associations, etc.) need to have massive insurance to cover their asses... prices for bikes and lift tickets continue to go through the roof.

Only people that enjoy the US system are the lawyers.

 @Balgaroth: as an American I can tell you that I nor anyone in my life experience has ever disparaged the European services. I spend 50% of what my home costs on health insurance. I am a healthy 34 year old male. I assure you, 99% of us WISH we had those systems in place.

 @brass-munky: Probably, depends on your social environment I guess. But it's not unusual to see 'Muricans call French or Europeans "Commies", as such I don't expect those people to concede the fact that your health/insurance/suing system is utterly Fu**ed up.

 @brass-munky: Yes, I should've clarified "some" Americans in my post above. I've definitely seen those sentiments expressed on this site though, I specifically remember one guy guaranteeing the US healthcare would deal better with Covid than the socialist systems in place in Europe. Not sure how that's working out for him.

 @bishopsmike: And the doctors who are making a fortune

 @homerjm: as the saying goes, You can do what you want in the U.S. but don't get sick.

 @vandall: ok hahaha.

 @vandall: Truth!

 But don't you dare talk about affordable healthcare or *gasp* universal healthcare! That there is some damn Commie talk and we won't any of that. Think of all the lawyers, drug company and hospital execs that need that extra vacation home/yatch! /s/

 @homerjm: in other words, whole Spain paid for his bill out of the taxes

 @commental: The thing to keep in mind is that in the US your health coverage is tied to your job until you reach 65 years old and qualify for government based insurance. If you you have a good job, you will typically have very good medical coverage. In the last 30 years or so the union manufacturing jobs that used to give people without a college degree a good paying job have moved overseas. If you work part time or in a low skill or pay field you will either not have health coverage or have poor health coverage. I know people (wealthy people) that come to the US from Canada for medical care because the government funded health care in Canada did not cover the best orthopedic surgery or the wait was too long. Basically, if you are well off or have a job with good medical coverage you get world class care in the US.

 @nickmalysh: ... and nobody noticed it. That's the point.

 @jonemyers: Poor(er) folks from the US travel to Mexico. It's the true North American healthcare system. If you don't like your care just travel one country south.

 @jonemyers: one question, please: is it true - when wo.an gives a birth in hospital in US, if she wants to hold her child after birth - it cost some money?

 @CM999: And the doctors who are making a fortune before paying their malpractice insurance (fify).

Seriously though, the problem with USA healthcare (there's lots of problems and some benefits) is the sheer complexity. Lots of money changing hands between exiting your checkbook and landing in the hands of someone who performs care. And everyone takes a cut. Complicate to profit, just like electric gizmos on bikes. And you can't make it better for one person without making it worse, maybe temporarily worse, for someone else.

 @jonemyers: My half sister lives in the Arkansas. Her husband was still working at 78 to pay her medical bills. I don't know why they weren't covered by this government based insurance that you mentioned, but they weren't. Unfortunately he was diagnosed with cancer. He had secondaries which were too far progressed for treatment to make any significant difference to his outcome, the cancer was terminal. In this country he would've been given palliative care and made as comfortable as possible for the remainder of his days. Because he had insurance (which didn't cover his wife) he was given lots of different treatments that made little difference to his condition, but tore the ass out of his quality of life. Why? Because it was what was best for him, or because the medical professionals involved could charge exorbitant sums for it? You can think what you want, but I know what I believe.

 @ElGatoGales: loooool, what a load of bs.
I have shoulder surgery experience (as taxpayer, not visitor) in both Spain and UK. Let me tell you that UK's healthcare suck balls compared with Spain. Being sent home 5h. after waking up from a full on surgery with total anaesthesia is something that shoukd be reserved for war times, ffs.

I also know plenty of people visiting Spain who got normal medical treatment at no charge.
Also I remember headlines about UK websites advertising 'medical holidays' in Spain at the expense of the spanish taxpayer... figure out

 @commental: Medicare has been gutted since pretty much day 1, since in the US you're supposed to keep pulling up on those bootstraps until you drop dead. That's why you see elderly people that should be resting at home working at Walmart or at fast food place or delivering pizzas instead because for US Capitalism you're only as good as what you can contribute and once you're old/invalid you're worthless.

 @jonemyers: Also in response to your comment about NATO, do you believe that your country has in no way contributed to causing the current situation in Ukraine? If so all I can do is LMFAO.

 @jonemyers: the US could have saved that money by not spending it on invading Afghanistan, Irak, etc

Or buy less guns and shot less people at home?

 @commental: 100% odds it did not age well

 @brass-munky: You can thank ACA aka Obamacare for healthcare costs going up tremendously.

 @matadorCE: There are a couple of very nice yachts available at discount prices currently though. So this would be an ideal time!

 Damn you guys get free healthcare and affordable housing? 170k$ wont buy you a damn shed where Im at in the US now..

 @Takaya94: nothing is free man, we don't pay when we get health problems because all of use pay all the time with taxes taken directly on our salaries and paid by the company too. Now if you are in good health you may think it is a shit system that robs you of potential money, like any insurance really. But the difference here is that even if your case is desperate or whatever, our system will not increase your premium because they want to kick you out now that they need to pay for your recent health problems. Before moving to Ireland I didn't understand what it really meant (only started working) and I was leaning toward the American system, liberalism, you get what you work for. But when I arrived I was shocked at how many Irish people are limping, using crutches, have fu**ed up teeth and so on, coming from France where you pretty much never see such things. Made me realize how good we have it here and changed my mind on this. Sure when you are young and healthy you are loosing money but if you get bad health problems down the line you will be glad to have a system that backs you up no matter what. Sure you paid for it all your life but you will never face the choice between your life or selling all your belonging, contracting a debt on 5 generations and so on.

 And PeopleForBikes is the very finest, ersatz, astroturf-roots lobby group industry money can buy to be sure these model citizens have a right to pass human powered riders *everywhere* be it the multi-use path, National or State Forest!

 @powturn: Yeah Peopleforbikes is the worst organization for actual cyclists. But they do a lot for the wealthy country club path rider segment.

 The swiss riviera is full of discarded batteries.

 Haha! You made me choke on my coffee. I never expected such violence from the Swiss.

 @rrolly:
Sorry i wasnt honest, we throw ammunation in our lakes... at least 8000 tones. xD



www.swissinfo.ch/eng/old-ammo_unexploded-munitions-continue-to-reverberate-in-switzerland/45583030

 PeopleForBikes applauds you sir! These industry shills, er activists, are lobbying for your God-given right to scorch whatever earth you see fit with your motor, and then poison the well with your e-waste when you're done having "fun!"

 @Hamburgi: Wow! I can't imagine munition chemicals not affecting the drinking water.

 @Hamburgi: Wow that's a crazy story you have there sir, and it's probably the same in a lot of countries. :O

 @Timo82: @NWBasser: Yes crazy things there...

But the real problem we've got is with our groundwater that we're drinking later from our houses etc.
The farmers uses chemicals for theyre plants etc. and this seeps in our groundwater.

 @Hamburgi: Yeah, groundwater contamination is a huge issue here as well. Environmental sampling is what I do for a living and what I see isn't good for anyone.

 She could afford it yeah? If she lost 100K in a month for wages

 @bok-CZ: Yeah that lost wages number is the one I keep coming back to here. Coulda walked into a shop and left with a sick e-bike, professionally assembled, but no! in classic fashion she still has to be cheap as possible.

 @curiousincident: Sure if she is actually making that much a month she probably isn't doing any sort of labor work, as such she probably can work from home, from a bed or a couch whichever is most comfortable. And probably did so because when your company pays you that much you are theoretically important for the company and can't take a Month off like that.

 @bok-CZ: Only Fans.

 @Balgaroth: In spite of my lack of sympathy, she's not wrong. They should torque the stem from the factory for direct sales. It's just this is the sort of outcome our crappy economic mode is destined to result in.

 @bok-CZ: my thoughts exactly!

 @curiousincident: obviously the company f*cked up. And honestly, the world would be a much better place if the “bike” companies doing slipshod assembly got sued into competence or bankruptcy. It stuns me that Walmart hasn’t gotten clobbered with a lawsuit for some of the stuff they let out the door.

But man… it takes a lot of willful ignorance to get as far as she did.

 @Blackhat: I'm wondering if she initially thought it was her fault for not having the bike checked, but then got the email from the company telling her to check the stem bolts, and then realized she had a legal opportunity? The article made it seem that way.

 @bok-CZ:
“Lost wages” in this context could be slang for future lost earning capacity. If a fast food fry cook gets a hand chopped off, lifetime lost future earning capacity can go through the roof. If this woman is alleging permanent disability, it doesn’t take that much $ in lost earnings per month to add up to 100k for the rest of her working life.

There’s all kinds of ways to calculate these things, and all the listed numbers are demands made by some ambulance-chasers who’ll likely settle for a much lower amount, take a third of the settlement for their time, and send her on her way.

 @parkourfan: yeah I can imagine, just didn't expect so bad crash on that thing

 As someone who works for a recycling company that occasionally deals with lithium ebike and car batteries lets just say theyre tad explosive.... i mean expensive to deal with...

 @McMeta666: As someone who tests Li-Ion batteries for a living, I can confirm that they can be quite volatile, but even the biggest, most powerful Li primary batteries we test never get to the point of explosion. Deflagration, maybe, but we categorize them as spontaneous disassembly events. Even a full pack overcharge to twice the stated capacity and voltage only produces a mild pressure wave, on a 2.5kWh pack. EV batteries have a lot of energy and a fair amount of power, but they cascade quite slowly and typically just burn. The big issue with Li-Ion fires and events is the fact that it's not a fire that can typically be easily extinguished. Li-Ion fires are chemical reactions and have to be cooled to stop the reaction, water, lots of it, is the only tool to stop a propagating Li-ion pack. ABC or type D extinguishers will knock down a flame, but the internal reaction will continue until the pack is cooled and the propagation stops. The other issue is the temperature they burn at is quite high, and they will melt plastic or aluminum battery cases, causing cell ejections to occur which can spread the fire beyond just the local battery. (This is only a problem with typical cylindrical cell battery production, Li-polymer, and prismatic batteries are safer here, but each cell contains more energy, so there's a safety tradeoff.

Just Sayin', it's not an explosion.

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: Good to know. The fact that they just burn, but don't explode, makes me feel much better.

 @commental: burn violently and hot.

 Next budget or baller test !

 I'd rather pay £500 for a SRAM GX AXS than £360 for some Chinese rubbish that probably has no support or warranty

 @melonhead1145: Chinese rubbish.... best put your phone down that you typed the message on then.

So much is manufactured in China and the technical support of their advanced engineering groups can be fantastic. (that is from my basic knowledge of mass manufacture in China for the last 10 years)

 @betsie: I'm well aware lots of stuff is manufactured in China, but is there any garuntee, or warranty, support or anything buying some dubios electric drivetriain from AliExpress. I didn't say everything Chinese is rubbish, just this particular product reeks of it.

 @melonhead1145: if you're unsure buy on Amazon, most of the products found on AExpress can be found there too, with proper warranty system. That said the products on AExpress as far from being bad and if I was a "legit" bike company overpricing shit produced in the same factories I'd start to sweat a little because the Chinese are coming for you, with internet and direct-to-consumer distribution strategy the tide could turn very very fast. It seems to take on faster on the Roadies side of things. Once the stigma attached to consuming unknown (for the moment) Chinese brands will vanish it will be very very hard to justify charging 3x the price for something performing the same.

 @Balgaroth: are you seriously backing up the quality of the crap sold on Ali express??

 @olafthemoose: some of it without any problem yes. Got a k7, 12spd, less than 400gr, machined from a single bloc of steel, showed barely any sign of wear after a season of Enduro and DH with 3 spins per week on average, cost me 100€. Got some good results with other products too like pedals, MX footpegs, some hubs too. Loads of crap on AExpress but some good stuff too. Feel free to pay the premium price I couldn't give a shit mate.

 @Balgaroth: if you wanna test the quality of a cassette, put some serious pedalling miles in it. Rolling down slopes, is an easy job for a cassette

 @Balgaroth: totally agree I have some fantastic stuff that I have purchased on AliExpress narrow wide chain rings pedals fishbone brake lines, cassettes, etc

 @CTDchris: the ali express review bots have infiltrated pinkbike

 @Balgaroth: I'm not sure how many non-french speakers would know what a k7 is. The rest of the description gives it away though.

 I like how they just call it GX Eagle AXS too, no fucks given.

 @lenniDK: with 600 to 1000m of elevation done pedaling on each spins I think it can be considered mileage tho I don't know the mileage as it is a pretty useless metric when cycling in the mountains. I do 80% enduro and less than 20% DH. But ye that cassettes hasn't been ridden that's why it survived, you should definitely spend 3x the price for a cassette, off you go.

 @Balgaroth: Do you have a link for the cassette? Sounds interesting. Do they come in Shimano microspline?

 @ak-77: Search on AExpress, most of the time they come as ZTTO brand but not only. XD and Microspline also exist but you pay slightly more for those (130€ instead of 100€ I think, price went up since I bought my most recent one).

 @Balgaroth: a quick search didn't reveal any monolithic microspline 10-52 cassettes. Anyway I would not buy it unless I have at least one positive review by someone who I trust to be a real person that bought and used the exact same product from the exact same store. As you said, there is good stuff and crap on AliX. The ones that sell crap are often good at making it look just like the good stuff.

 I think its being looked at by lots of companies. Amazing what happens when there is a world wide cardboard shortage to scare people into action!!!

 Amazon sent me a coin cell battery in a 12x12x18" box mostly full of bubble wrap...

 @DizzyNinja: amazon sent our bar 48 individually wrapped and boxed rolls of receipt paper, when we ordered them as a case of 48. Each one in its own 6x6 inch box. With its own individual label. Straps of packaging tape and then each roll individually wrapped in plastic inside the box. Such a devastating waste of resources and so much trash/recycle. Not to mention the extra time it took the UPS driver while the truck sat idling.

 Your first problem is thinking you returned to normal. I know you're suffering from about $150K in mental anguish and probably another $500K in the struggle to find another car.

 Not having the common sense to properly tighten things is why all bicycles with open fork dropouts have some means of holding the wheel in place if the nuts/QR skewer aren't fully tightened. Collectively known as "lawyer tabs", they became a standard feature of bicycles in the 1980s thanks to the USA and its rather prone to sue citizens, who rather than accept personal responsibility for their own actions would rather sue the bicycle manufacturers.

 @deeeight: When you buy a car you don't expect to have to check the bolts

 @deeeight: Umm... they're called "Lawyer Lips"

And this woman sort of has a case... they didn't update the assembly instructions until after her accident, and she was sent a notice, after her accident that there was a potential for loose stem bolts. The manufacturer sent her a bike with and issue that wasn't covered in the online tutorial, and then admitted they had an issue. Although I do believe in personal responsibility, and I do think she carries some when she decided to watch a yootoob video and assemble her own bike, she was also sold a bike that was intended to be assembled by the consumer, after watching a yootoob video.
Regardless of the manufacturer, as a part-time IBD shop tech we see lots of direct to consumer bikes with serious assembly issues and mistakes. Some are dangerous, some are just annoying. These bikes are sold to the consumer with poorly written instructions, and for the most part, consumers are not skilled enough to complete a safe assembly. They nearly always say to have a bike shop check it out if necessary, but people are stupid, arrogant and cheap, if you're buying a DTC E-bike, chances are you check at least two of those three boxes, and if the instructions say you can do it yourself, even if you're stupid and cheap, then you will and the manufacturer accepts at lest part of the liability by proving a bike and instructions DTC.

 @motdrawde: and you probably don't need to check them on your new bike from a reputable LBS, but if you're buying something called a "RadMini Electric Fat Bike" it's probably a good idea.

 @plyawn: For sure, I'd always check them in any case

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: The number of Rad Power bikes I've seen through the shop with questionable assembly that most consumers would not be able to fix such as bent hangers, out of true wheels, misaligned brake calipers, and yes, untorqued stems is a bit high for a bike that's theoretically able to be ridden by the consumer out of the box. It's one thing for the slapped together assembly be sent to a bike shop for final assembly by a mechanic, but quite the dangerous proposition went its sent DTC and marketed as consumer assemble able

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: We have a store here called Halfords, which I doubt would still be in business if we had your levels of compensation. I remember one guy (who was relatively new to the sport) turning up for a group ride with a new bike, which he'd purchased there. He said he seemed to find more difficult to corner on than his old bike and had crashed a few times. When he pulled it out of his car the fork was on backwards.

 @commental: we have a store called Wal-Mart. We’re familiar.

 @commental: I bought that Boardman FS Comp bike that got rave reviews a few years ago through bike to work. It had to go back for repair and the shock had zero air in when they returned it, it I'd have ridden it then god knows what would have happened.

 @vtracer: in your opinion, does she have a case against RAD? I haven’t personally worked on a RAD that I’m aware of, but I’ve had plenty of other DTC bikes in my stand over the years and most of them have issues that the owners were obtuse too. If RAD is indeed selling bikes that can’t be safely operated without being touched by a IBD, then I’d say the liability lies with them.

 @korev: Haha, same bike.

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: ehh, I'm no laywer. Is it morally incorrect how they send off their bikes and market them? WalMart sure gets away with it on their POS. Of the actually brand recognizable DTC bikes I've put together, YT and Vitus both did a really good job with making the only thing the end customer would have to do is slap the bars on. A+ for Vitus, since they actually have technicians build the bikes and test ride them at the CRC distribution center before boxing them back up to send to the end customer. F- for Amazon bikes, cause I've had some through the shop with insufficient steerer tube to mount a stem to and refusing service to customers on their brand new bike isn't fun.

 @vtracer:

Amazon doesn't re-box the bikes, they ship them out exactly the same as the manufacturers package them. With the Mongooses they sell, they're in exactly the same state as they'd arrive as an IBD that happened to be a Mongoose dealer.

Decathlon in Canada at least, ships the bikes pre-assembled to the point that all you really need to do is install the pedals, orient the stem to align with the fork/wheel and install the front wheel QR skewer/thru-axle and set the seatpost/saddle to the correct height. Unfortunately because they're doing this in rather generic thin cardboard boxes, and not the original extra thick cardboard boxes they leave the overseas factories in, you're at a greater risk of their delivery company messing up and damaging the box/bike contents. It took TWO orders to get a bike I wanted safely delivered a mere 300 kms from their distribution wharehouse for online orders. Amazon on the other hand sent me bikes more than three thousand MILES without damage.

Now I've been building bikes from bare frames for three decades, and have an extensive collection of specialized shop tools now so assembling / going over bikes as they ship to stores barely requires any second thought to know what to do correctly, but the instructions included in the boxes for the "average" consumer varies. Mongoose its the basic generic owner's manual (though they do include the correct size allen wrenches for what needs them). Decathlon includes a nice 6-page folded pamphlet taped to the inside of the box which includes a list of tools that are supposed to be included (4,5,6mm allen wrenches and a 15mm pedal wrench) though mine only had the single 6mm allen included. Also the pamphlet is actually only 2 pages of instructions (in both official languages) with 2 pages basically being the front/back cover. Its less detailed than Ikea furniture instructions and uses really large font text like they know the people doing the assembly will have short attention spans and poor eyesight.

 @motdrawde: I don’t buy a car online with assembly required.

 Ride And Destroy yourself.

 Caves? Sounds like they made a decision. They also stated wanting to have an affect on Utah's policies, which doesn't work from Denver. Maybe all outdoor companies should leave Utah because of the politics and see how much they cater to public lands and fist nation peoples. If you take your ball and go home the game still goes on with others and their balls...

 Those people are now known as e-bikers

 That's worth AT LEAST 1.3 million dollars! Boy she's not asking enough!!

 I'm commuting on a bike I bought in 2015 that's still on its original cables. I've had to tweak the barrel adjuster once or twice. How much time have you spent charging your battery? I promise you it's more time than I've spent maintaining my commute bike. Mine's also clean and crisp on every shift, good as new.

 About 2 in the last 5 Years and thats because I build up a two new Bikes.

 @barp: Charging a battery isn't maintenance, its a plug.

 @warmerdamj: Call it what you want; it's time you're wasting on your bike and I'm not.

 @barp: You can pretend that using an electrical outlet twice a year is time wasting all you want but I doubt you have ever tried it given you have nothing to actually say about it. I actually have bikes with Di2, AXS and regular cable drivetrains and the Di2 and AXS both outperform the cable drive trains by a long shot. Don't be scared of the future man, its good.

 I'm waiting for a deore or slx bluetooth group but maybe tektro will come before and will do the job! I don't have problem with my shimanos but would be worth it just for not having to pass cables inside my frame with all the rattles and everything... right now I have to switch my frame with a new one and I'm getting headache just thinking about that installation with the foam tube I bought! haha

 @Timo82: Yeah installation is a huge time saver too! It's pretty obvious that between pulling against a spring with a lever and metal cable through friction laden housing vs instantly activating it with a precise electric motor which will produce a better result. Why guys need to die on their cable drivetrain hill on here is beyond me, I'm not putting a gun to their head. You'll love any electronic shifting you end up getting, I guarantee it.

 @warmerdamj: If it ain't broke, you don't effing fix it. Cable shifting is also the future--and way more sustainable, you might have forgotten.

P.S.: Fear has nothing to do with it; that's a straw man. Let's stick to the real issues and not make it personal.

 @barp: There's nothing personal going on here. I like Di2 and I stated why I think that and you disagree, its the internet and its ok. But not changing the cables on your commuter bike in 7 years has no relevance to Di2 on a mountain bike. Anybody here knows that 7 year old cables on a mountain bike will shift like garbage. Try Di2 or AXS and then come back and tell us what you think about it. You are arguing against something you have never tried.

 @warmerdamj: I have literally tried both of them repeatedly and I don't like or want them.

 @barp: Yeah I'm sure you just forgot to mention that during this conversation. Now you just sound like a clown barp!

 @warmerdamj: You're free to think whatever you want. You've obviously chosen to swallow hook, line, and sinker whatever the marketing people tell you to think.

It is cute, though, that you've chosen to carry that mistaken assumption about me.

"I like this thing, so everybody else who doesn't like it OBVIOUSLY just hasn't tried it yet".

Look beyond your own toes for once.

 It will settle out of court, but yeah, she’ll get paid. I wonder what job she does that required her to use her hand to perform tasks in so much that she could not work and make 100k a month? Was she a surgeon or dentist? Aside from that, I just can’t think of a job.

 @mrkkbb: professional handjobber

 @lukirock: you’re trying too hard.

 @topherdagopher: it's plausible and funny.

 No more carbon anything.

 No more SRAM

 isn't TRP "tektro racing products"? So I'm wondering whether this electric groupset will be under the TRP name upon release, since they already make high end mtb drivetrains as well

 @DanielP07: Suntour will become SRP soon :-)

 @RonSauce: while TRP and Tektro are two different brands they’re still very much the same company behind both lines of products

 @zoobab2: SRP were a titanium bolt specialist brand back in the 90s, don't know if they are still around.

 I wouldn't buy anything Tektro branded after living with a set of Geminis. They lasted less than a season and never inspired confidence.

 @DanielP07: That's my thought as well.

 @nozes: yeah I remember those, green anodized bolt kits!

 @RonSauce: Not according to TRP/Tektro trpcycling.com/about