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Industry Digest: Tumbling Peloton Stock, eMTB Battery Recycling & Cannondale's New US Assembly Facility

Nov 17, 2021
by James Smurthwaite  


What's going on in the cycling industry this month? Industry Digest is a peek behind the curtain and showcases articles from our sister site, Bicycle Retailer and Industry News. In each installment, you might find patents, mergers, financial reports and industry gossip.



Vosper: The hidden big picture in the Pon/Dorel story
By: Rick Vosper

Pon Holdings, parent company of Pon.Bikes, is not shy about augmenting its distributed brands by purchasing retailers. Case in point, Pon purchased the indiGO Auto Group in 2019, with 21 dealerships in California, Missouri and Texas. IndiGO dealerships sell Porsche, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, Aston Martin and McLaren, along with more mainstream brands like Volkswagen, BMW, Land Rover, Audi, Jaguar and others. Compared to a purchase like that, Pon’s acquisition of the 12-store Mike’s empire is just pocket change.

So we have Pon, which now controls a powerful stable of bike brands that can’t find enough premium retailers to sell their products. And Pon has a business model of acquiring retailers to sell the brands it represents. In fact, it’s already acquired one of the biggest and most successful dealer chains, and right in Specialized’s backyard, too. Now what do you suppose Pon is likely to do in this situation? That’s the question that should make Giant very, very nervous. Not to mention Trek and Specialized.

(Read more.)




Peloton stocks tumble after it lowers forecasts
By: Bicycle Retailer & Industry News

Peloton Interactive Inc. shares were down more than 34% on Friday after the company lowered its forecasts for 2022 sales.

Peloton is now forecasting full-year fiscal sales of $4.4 billion to $4.8 billion, down from a previous forecast of $5.4 billion. Peloton also lowered its forecast for connected fitness subscriptions to 3.45 million by the end of the year, down from a previous forecast of 3.63 million. And it lowered its full-year gross margin forecast from 34% to 32%. The final result is forecast to be a loss of $475 million for the year.

Bloomberg reported Friday that Peloton CEO founder John Foley saw his net worth fall below the $1 billion level on Friday due to the stock price decline.

(Read more.)




Police: Giron stole credit cards, confessed to murder of Jamis co-worker
By: Bicycle Retailer & Industry News

Police investigators say Christian Giron used a hand-held sledgehammer to kill his Jamis Bicycles co-worker Jeanette Willem at the brand's headquarters Wednesday morning.

They say he then stole Willem's credit cards as well as a company credit card, drove home and changed his clothes and then returned to the office where he called 911. They say he confessed to the crimes at the Northvale police department soon after.

According to a police report, video surveillance cameras showed Giron approaching Willem at the office at about 7:39 a.m. The report redacts sections that appear to describe the exact interaction between the two. It says Giron discarded the credit cards in a garbage can along the street and hid the hammer under a parked trailer in front of the business.

(Read more.)




Dorel Sports plans bike assembly factory in Georgia
By: Bicycle Retailer & Industry News

In a move to ease supply chain constraints, Cycling Sports Group is opening a bike assembly facility in this community outside Savannah.

Dorel Sports, CSG's parent, announced in March that it was opening the 775,000 square-foot facility as a fulfillment center for its bicycle brands including Cannondale, Schwinn, Mongoose, Kid Trax, and GT.

“The new building is much more than just a building,” Brad Gandy Sr., director of North American Operations for Pacific Cycle/Dorel Sports, said in a March statement. It’s an opportunity to cater our supply chain operations and develop a flagship facility we can use to benchmark for continual improvements throughout our Dorel Sports family.”
(Read more.)




Industry comes together for e-bike battery recycling program — what will it mean for retailers?
By: Dean Yobbi

Now that PeopleForBikes and Call2Recycle have established the industry's first e-bike battery recycling program for U.S. retailers, proper training and equipment will be mandatory to ensure safe storage of expired packs returned to shops, according to a micromobility consulting group.

PeopleForBikes announced the recycling program on Nov. 3, with about 20 industry suppliers and manufacturers supporting and funding the safe collection and recycling of lithium-ion e-bike batteries to help reduce overall recycling costs. Retailers can begin enrolling in the program in February to become collection sites.
Checking pressure

Most shops are still unaware of the program, which is optional. Some industry experts said retailers should embrace the program but also educate themselves on battery safety and invest in safety equipment before agreeing to participate.

More than 40 bike industry leaders from 20 PeopleForBikes member companies united under a sustainability task force and e-bike committee to design the program. It aims to address the environmental concerns associated with expired, damaged, or defective lithium-ion batteries.

(Read more.)




British photographer files copyright claim against California bike shop
By: Bicycle Retailer & Industry News

A UK-based professional photographer has filed a lawsuit against California-based Summit Bicycles, claiming photo of an e-bike on Summit's website is his copyrighted intellectual property and is being used improperly.

The lawsuit includes a screenshot that allegedly shows the photographer's photo of a Brompton folding bike on Summit's e-commerce site. The suit also includes a link to the page. On Monday, the same page included a photo of a different model Brompton (see photo at bottom of this article).

When reached by BRAIN on Tuesday, Summit Bicycles CEO Ian Christie said he was unaware of the suit before BRAIN told him about it and said he never received a cease-and-desist notice from Thorn or the law firm.
A screenshot of the photograph on the Summit website as it appeared Monday October 18

The photographer, Robin Thorn — the director of Thorn Cycles Ltd. in Bridgwater, England — told BRAIN he uses a web-based service, Copytrack, to monitor the use of his company's images. He told BRAIN he signed up with the service because his company employs two full-time photographers and has discovered "thousands" of cases of their photos being used without permission.

(Read more.)




Is Rad Power the $329-million gorilla of the e-bike world?
By: Steve Frothingham

On Thursday Rad Power announced that with its latest $154 million financing round, it has brought in a total of $329 million in investments since its inception. The company claims that makes it the world's best-funded e-bike brand, at least in the direct-to-consumer market. While strictly speaking that's likely true, there are some other mega players in the e-bike space with the power to further disrupt the market for regular and electric bikes if they choose.

But there are participants in the e-bike industry and around it that already wield considerable power, and could have even more potentially — more than Rad Power and more than some of the largest companies currently in the bike industry.

Within this industry, Shimano (annual revenue about $4 billion) and Giant Group (annual revenue about $3 billion) are each investing heavily in e-bikes, with the electric-assist machines accounting for about a third of Giant's revenues this year.

(Read more.)




Biden's compromise legislation platform returns e-bike tax credit to original rate
By: Bicycle Retailer & Industry News

President Joe Biden released a revamped climate-change plan Thursday as part of his Build Back Better Act that includes restoring the originally proposed e-bike tax credit percentage while keeping the bicycle commuter benefit unchanged.

The tax credit for the purchase of an e-bike originally was proposed at 30% when Congressmen Jimmy Panetta (D-Calif.) and Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) created the E-BIKE Act. However, in September, the House Ways and Means Committee reduced the credit in half.

As part of the revamped bill announced Thursday, it's back to 30% but over five years — not 10 — with the same means-testing price caps previously. The Build Back Better Act — formerly the GREEN Act — proposes $7.4 billion for e-bike tax credits. It also would establish an $81 a month pre-tax benefit for biking to work that could be used with parking and transit and bike share, micromobility and e-bike costs.

(Read more.)


168 Comments

  • 121 2
 *closes laptop to go for a ride on oldest, simplest bike owned.
  • 92 0
 The more I read pinkbike these days the more I want to build a rigid steel singlespeed. Is this what getting old feels like?
  • 13 0
 @SangamonTaylor: Embrace it and push a big gear over the horizon.
  • 17 0
 @SangamonTaylor: as long as you have ti SPD cleats and it an e-single speed.
  • 3 0
 @SangamonTaylor: I was actually talking about this with my boss the other day. I'd love to build one last purist bike. Steel frame, mechanical drivetrain, even rim brakes (just because you still can).
  • 8 0
 @SangamonTaylor: Yes. And then you realise that rigid forks hurt old arms and you put a suspension fork on your steel single speed.
  • 1 0
 i'm actually kinda serious, I want to buy a circa 2008ish carbon XC fully frame (thinking S Epic or the flex pivot Scalpel) and turn it into a gravel bike with curlies.
  • 6 8
 @hamncheez: you want to ruin a perfectly decent bike with the kind of junk people hate
  • 1 0
 @SangamonTaylor: yes. I'm nearing 30 and am building one now
  • 9 3
 @browner: Not sure a mountain 26" bike with a 100mm stem and 70 degree HTA is "perfectly decent bike" haha
  • 4 0
 @pink505: An e-single speed... Why didn't I think of that. Such a great idea. Simple, yet, modern.
  • 2 0
 @SangamonTaylor: yep! going to go pick up a Surly Lowside tonight for this exact reason.
  • 2 0
 On the hunt for a G Fisher Sugar 292 since genesis geometry and flex stays seem to be “re-invented” nowadays.
Be the best/worst gravel curly bar ever!!! @hamncheez:
  • 3 0
 @n8dawg82: steel e-single speed is real
  • 1 0
 @NWintheUSA: Just saw a few on ebay.

The 26" Scalpel from the 2000s was a true flex pivot- no pivot anywhere except the shock link. The chainstay pivot and "main" pivot are both flex stays.
  • 5 7
 @SangamonTaylor: I wish they would just call ebikes motobikes
  • 6 0
 @hamncheez:
In 2008 I put drop bars, disc brakes, and 35c tires on my Surly Karate Monkey. Everyone thought it was a dumb idea.
Fast forward 10 years...Gravel bikes are just rebranded old school 29ers
  • 1 0
 Fixed Gear For The Win. nothing simpler and as fun as can be
  • 2 0
 @SangamonTaylor: that's why I built a Chromag. Easy, simple, and fun to ride without a care about new standards and crap.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: been scheming this for a while, been keeping an eye out for old fully 29ers
  • 2 0
 @vectorforces: Hahaha, me and most of my friends have been riding our cyclocross bikes on long rides during the off (race) season for about 25 years. You're way late to the game my friend.
  • 1 1
 @SangamonTaylor: no, it is not. Because if you’re really old your knees will explode like popcorn if you try to ride a single speed
  • 2 0
 @pink505:
And 145mm cranks.
  • 2 0
 @pasales: Technically a balance bike is simpler Smile
  • 1 0
 @ian-lemke: I was under the impression that normal gravel/CX tires will fit on a 26" mountain bike frame
  • 35 1
 Don't be so pessimistic Peloton! Certainly there is another epidemic or natural disaster just around the corner that will force people to stay inside!
  • 30 11
 It's gonna keep being the same one year after year after year until human beings can all get on the same page and care for others beside themselves
  • 9 10
 @cmi85: I agree, but you must be careful here as not to open a can of "individualism" worms.
  • 8 0
 It helped plenty of my friends get in shape and lose weight, so I'm not understanding why so much hate for Peloton here. Sure, I'd rather be outside shooting frozen snot rockets out of my nose, but I might not be like everyone else.
  • 10 5
 @cmi85: I love that you want us to all get along and unify. It's a beautiful sentiment. Unfortunately, those in power have weaponized such good intentions as a means to control everyone. Our good nature and kindness is being used against us. I will always be kind and thoughtful, but I will not let the powers that be force my compliance with their agenda by making me be afraid of appearing unkind.
  • 11 13
 @cmi85: Yes let's shut down the world until we've cured covid like we have rhinovirus and influenza....oh wait.
  • 3 2
 @schlockinz: I just hate them for their pushy and annoying advertisements on every single platform I use.
I am not going to ride my bike indoors anyway but if I would, I wouldn't use pooploton.
  • 1 0
 @schlockinz: yea I don’t get it either. Stationary bikes have been around forever and instructor led spin classes have been popular going on three decades now. But do it at home and people freak out about it?
  • 3 2
 @DRomy: can you give an example of where the Powers that Be tried to curtail your personal ability to be kind and thoughtful? Genuine question.
  • 1 0
 @colincolin: I'm with you on that. It seems like they knowingly want to be annoying.
  • 4 2
 @VtVolk: I think there was a misunderstanding in what I said. My apologies if I was unclear. I'm saying that those in power are using our kindness and good nature as a way to manipulate us into following their prescribed course of action. People generally don't want to be thought of as unkind or inconsiderate, so those in control craft a narrative that unless we follow their agenda we are being thoughtless, inconsiderate, ignorant, or even hateful. It's a method of manipulation to force conformity and frame any dissent as unacceptable.
  • 2 1
 @DRomy: who specifically are "those in power" that want to "manipulate" you? What are they gaining from such "manipulation"?
  • 2 2
 @cmi85: As Thomas Sowell famously said, “There has never been a shortage of people eager to draw up blueprints for running other people’s lives.” If you haven’t yet seen who is wielding power and how they try to manipulate the masses, I’m not sure a back-and-forth in the comments section will be fruitful. All I would say is carry that beautiful sentiment of kindness and cooperation with you (the world needs more of it!j, but add to it a dose of skepticism and a caution in who you trust at any level of governance or media.
  • 1 2
 @DRomy: can't even answer my question. Just as I assumed.
I'm sure you'll just go tell to watch some YouTube videos next so I can be as "woke" as you.
  • 1 1
 @cmi85: I did, in fact, answer your question. I didn’t provide an easy-to-digest listicle because the topic is large and nuanced, and this isn’t really the forum for a meaningful discussion. I’m not sure what you’re interpreting as “woke,” but it does not apply to what I’ve said. Nor do I rely on YouTube videos to do my thinking for me. Be well and perhaps one day you’ll see.
  • 2 1
 @DRomy: Jeez bud, better lay off of the substances you seem to cherish. They DO cause paranoia!
  • 31 1
 The Jamis story is stupidly unbelievable.
  • 16 18
 WHY would they "report" on what was used to kill that poor gal. Give your head a shake!!
  • 10 1
 @balloffoil: because it was the murder weapon. Having that makes it much easier to convict the scumbag.
  • 6 0
 RIP
  • 7 8
 @extratalldirtrider: right. but do WE do the convicting? is it important that Extratalldirtrider knows?
  • 13 2
 @Spencermon: dude, go ride your bike.
  • 2 1
 @extratalldirtrider: I do. quite a bit actually. Is that supposed to make me different in some way?
  • 34 13
 The peloton scam. A 1960s manual resistance exercise bike with a screen attached. Just get apple fitness and your tv and a garage sale exercise bike you have a peloton. But we are a brain washed society.
  • 62 0
 Peloton has that updated geometry tho.
  • 26 14
 Or buy a real f'ing bike and just go outside for a bike ride. I agree, completely insane. Sh*t like that has become more like a status symbol than anything, just something else that people brag about owning like the latest iPhone model they bought or what purse they're carrying.

Like being a vegan. Life brag.
  • 17 1
 @cmi85: I'd love to bike year round and get in a great workout in fresh air but unless I want to sludge through snow on a fatbike that's not an option where I live. The peloton obsession and culture (think suburbanite with a peloton sticker on their car) can be super cringy but it has been an awesome tool for me to stay in great riding shape throughout our long winters.
  • 13 2
 @Pmars88: I'd rather Fat bike
  • 8 0
 @Pmars88: why not get a direct drive trainer for your bike save money and have a modern device that can hold watts or simulate climbs for cheaper than peloton.
  • 14 1
 @Rhymer: To each their own but to me fat biking is boring as shit and you only have a handful of days where conditions are actually good enough to enjoy riding (locally trails are either too icy or too soft most days). I much prefer snowboarding and pond hockey..
  • 13 2
 @yabbaDABdo: I actually wanted a trainer but the wife had zero interest and I wanted something we could both use. That said I've actually enjoyed the spin class format more than expected and it gets me on the bike more in the cold/ dark winters which has made improvements in my overall riding fitness. At the end of the day that's all I cared about. But what do I know I'm just brainwashed.
  • 8 7
 @Pmars88: There's a lot of things I'd rather do than Fat bike... But buying a peloton aint one of them.
  • 9 1
 @Pmars88: I totally agree with you. I made fun of Peloton for years, but, after shopping around for trainers etc. to survive wildfire season, found that it's a pretty good solution for two people. I thought I would be super annoyed with the "coaching" format, and while I still find that it can be annoying at times, it turns out that I find it very easy to push hard in workouts when someone just tells me when to go hard. The efficiency is hard to beat; the power zone workouts have been a super efficient way to get a solid workout in ~45 minutes. I'm not convinced it's better than a trainer and Zwift/Sufferfest etc. (haven't tried), but the barrier to hopping on the Peloton has been so low that it gets me a workout on days when I otherwise wouldn't have been able to ride.
  • 6 4
 If you think Peloton is about the spin bike, think again. They're selling a social platform, paid talent, and instant friends. Sound like Facebook, Instagram, TikTok...?
  • 5 1
 @Mlloyd550: That's only if you want it to be that way. No one is forcing you to treat it like social media. My wife and I have a Peloton, I use it all the time. The only person I "follow" or that follows me is my wife, yet I still find it a great tool for staying in shape. If you want to just take the classes and ride then just do that.

Its easy for people to sit here and say "go outside and ride", but in the winter with the short days, plus the winter weather, that's just not possible. Having that bike I can just jump on it with any free time I have and get a solid 30-45 minute workout.

Also, it is in no way the same as any old stationary bike. The instructor format, music, etc all make it much easier to stomach than a regular stationary bike. As someone else pointed out above, for many people just having a program to follow with a person (even if pre recorded) yelling at you to do something makes it much easier to do. I've had gym memberships for years, and had a regular stationary bike in my house for a while, and you could count on one hand the times I got on that bike or one at the gym.
  • 1 0
 @Pmars88: I fatbike a bit, but mostly I use Trainerroad on an indoor trainer in the winter. Hate on it all you want but it keeps me reasonably fit when I don't feel like riding in -30 weather. I'd be in better shape if I stopped crushing so many doughnuts though.
  • 2 1
 @carbking: Not necessarily hating on fat biking its just so different from mountain biking. If I didn't have my other winter sports I'd probably pick it up to get outside it's just not for me. That said they've opened some lift assist downhill fat biking trails at some of the ski resorts near me which definitely has peaked my interest.
  • 1 0
 @cmi85: So just like $13k ebikes?
  • 7 0
 I get that the average pinkbiker does not read lot of DC Rainmaker but I do. Literally everyone that I have ever read bashing Peloton sound like they have never used one and mostly seem to no nothing about it. First the new bike is a proper smart bike with ERG mode and prices in the same realm as the other ones from Wahoo and Tacx. The monthly price is totally worth it for 2 or more people because it is per device instead of per account. The content is huge including strength training, cycling, yoga, lighter weight workouts, meditation, and running classes for both treadmill and outside. If you are lucky enough to be able to ride single track everyday more power to you but some of us with 8-5 jobs and kids don’t have that kind of time. I find the training a closer fit to Mountain Biking than Zwift with lots of out of the saddle work.
  • 2 0
 @flattoflat: long, low and slack??
  • 2 0
 @skylanebike: DC rainmaker can't review cams for MTBs so I don't care about his content.
It's the first time I ever heard that this group even exist.

Zwift is pretty much enough for me.
Direct drive trainer connected to it is enough and it's cheaper and takes less space than anything else.
When you actually have a training plan for anything everything else is obsolete , zwift programs, Strava , peleton and so on because no one will beat the real all in one plan from an actual coach.


@cmi85
I don't agree, a lot of craftsman and other Jobs where you working hard physical come home kinda exhausted. Most of us don't want to go out after we are done when there is no sunshine and trails are even closed because of snow and ice. If you have fun with flat boring trails so be it but I rather much do my HIT just 30min after I got home to f*ck up anyone who does nothing when trail's are free again.
  • 4 2
 @cmi85: Random vegan shaming. Great.
  • 4 0
 There's nothing wrong with the peloton product. I'm not into the whole "rah, rah" let's go" gym crowd thing but to each their own. As a fitness tool it is great - albeit expensive, but that's just the result of a good product aiming for a premium position in the market against basic trainers or Zwift-enabled systems.

But the business is so grossly overinflated it's crazy. The company valuation multiple is insane, they're still losing money after making billions in revenue and what is arguably a very modest miss resulted in a 1/3 of the value being dumped. And they missed a growth number, after an exceptional year with return to work in full swing. Shows how unhinged investors are in today's bubble market.
  • 2 2
 @cmi85: the people who buy peleton don’t know what a real peloton is. Not everyone is a TLD pajama wearing, forum lurker. They have no idea what a direct drive trainer is. They just want to be fit and like the rest of us they found their magic pill with a vaccine and felt immortal again. Case closed.
  • 1 0
 @Serpentras: Zwift bus absolutely a better solution for dedicated cycling for one person and what I did for years. Sharing a single platform with my wife means I did not need both. I am very into technical details:

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/09/gopro-hero-10-black-in-depth-review.html/amp
  • 2 1
 @usedbikestuff: Lol how many shrooms did you eat before writing this?
  • 2 0
 Whether a person wants to ride inside or outside or whatever they want to do to stay fit really makes no difference to me. Back to what OP was saying though--Peloton is a hustle. They've built a name for themselves, they are the trendy thing to have. Absolutely overpriced for what they are.

Case in point, friend's wife said 'I want a Peloton!' and he thought ohhhh no, not spending money on that, especially since they were still in the middle of a 3 year gym contract to the 'fancy gym' that was going absolutely unused. So he made her a deal--he bought her a very well-reviewed stationary bike from Amazon, and she has a tablet, computer, or a smart TV in the basement to set the bike up in front of. If she used it and liked it, he would buy her a Peloton. She's ridden it twice in 8 months, heh. She wanted the Peloton to have the thing everyone else has.

There are *tons* of free spin workouts on YT, there are apps.. I don't think you're brainwashed if you ride a Peloton, but for those considering indoor exercise options just realize there are cheaper ways to get 95% of the experience if you can make due with calling it your stationary bike instead of your Peloton.
  • 2 0
 @skylanebike: I dunno, the problem for me is that we have dens forests and when the sun cant really blast trough it is to dark. So its funny that I get artifacts on a bright daylight and notice that the stabilization cant get enough light to work properly , you see the colors are way different all of the sudden and your image looks smeared/blurry with artifacts on top of it. Then there are the short spots where no trees are, total oversaturation will happen and shortly after that its way to dark.
Most action cam review dudes wont cover this enough for me. No one is riding with kind of a bad light source around nor do I see the type of MTB dude who really review it to cover this particular topic.
  • 3 0
 @sino428: Hey, if it works for you, more power to you. I did it for about a year when my gym got some Peloton bikes, but got really tired of the instructors' constant stream of mindless psychobabble. In addition, wasn't impressed with the quality of the actual bike; I have a $1,500 spin bike at home that is leagues ahead in quality and is much more enjoyable to ride that the Peloton bike.

My coment was primarily about what Peloton is selling to the investor community and their valuation. They're seling recurring revenue and a sticky social media platform to drive their valuation. The ultimate issue that Peloton will have, however, is exactly what drives the economics of gym membership- the vast majority of people who sign up for a gym end up dropping out within a year. That churn model works for gyms because there is an annual seasonal surge in sign-ups. But that model is problemmatic for Peloton because of the cost of the hardware they have to sell along with the monthly subscription, so the transaction costs to the consumer are much higher than a gym membership, which really limits the new sign ups. So they'll see slower customer acquisition on the front end combined with constant atttrition from their existing customer base, resulting in the revenue squeeze they're seeing right now.
  • 2 0
 Say peloton again, and again do it, do it!
  • 1 0
 @Mlloyd550: Sure, the financial aspects and the prospects of the stocks performance are completely a different issue than that actual experience with the product. The company was likely over valued (like many growth stocks) but that doesn't mean its a bad business model or wont still be a very successful company. The market valuation likely just got way ahead of itself. It still has a market cap or $18 billion dollars.
  • 1 0
 @mikealive: I would say that with most products you could say there are cheaper ways to get 95% of the experience. Cars, phones, TV's, electronics, appliances, clothing etc. Almost anything we own really. They are called luxuries, as in they are for comfort or convenience rather than necessity.

Could I get a janky stationary bike and use my Ipad with some free spin classes I find on the internet? Sure I could. But that's not the same experience in terms of quality and convenience. Unless we all have the basic base model of everything we own, we are all guilty of spending too much on certain things.

I would say most people in the comment section here probably have a pretty decent bike (or five). But they could probably get 95% of the experience or whatever bike they ride with a model that's a few years older, few pounds heavier, and quite a bit cheaper. That being the case, unless someone has the base model of everything they own, coming here and crapping on Peloton is a bit hypocritical.
  • 2 1
 @sino428: Do you have any examples? Can you show me the tv or smart phone that is a quarter of the price and gives you 95% of the benefit? You made a lot of assumptions to bolster your narrative, but is any of it factual? Examples please, I would love to spend 25% of the money and get 95% of the benefit on an appliance, I don't care about the name brand.

I've ridden a Peloton bike, have friends who have them. They are not impressive in terms of build quality. They are just fine. They have a screen built in. And? It seems that you are looking for a justification to spend more than you needed to to get 95% of the same function. No one said go buy some Walmart junk bike, or anything 'janky' as you put it, yeesh. And in terms of 'convenience', I don't have to run a windmill to power up YT or download an app, so I don't know what you're on about. Just ride your Peloton and be happy dude, you don't need anyone's approval, even if you appear to be seeking it.
  • 1 0
 @mikealive: I'm not really sure what is so hard to understand?

This would apply to almost anything. TV's sure. Thats an easy one. A $400 4K smart TV would absolutely give you 95% of the benefits of the $1500 one.

Refrigerators of the same size range anywhere from around $1200 to $3500. I bet they all keep your food cold and frozen just the same though.

An Iphone SE costs $400 vs $1100 for a 13 pro. Does it text, make calls, and take pics? Then it does 95% of what the more expensive one does.

Bikes? Does buying a top spec carbon bike for $7K really provide that much different of an experience than the aluminum version of the same bike for $2500? The answer is no. The upgrades are nice, but are they necessary to have a good time out on the trails? No they are not.


Cars? Tools? Furniture? Anything really. There are levels of luxury and convenience for almost everything. People choose to spend their money on things where they see benefit.

Like I said, unless someone buys the budget version of everything they own, then picking and choosing to call out others for buying a more expensive item that they don't really need is hypocritical.
  • 1 0
 @mikealive: Honest question, do the cheaper options have live power output as you are taking the class? The main thing I like about the peloton is monitoring my progression over time and seeing the improvement in power and a big part of that is matching/exceeding efforts they call out in a class. I know you can stream a cycling class from peloton without their bike from their app so you don't even need the actual bike just never had experience with other stationary bikes and how that all works.
  • 1 0
 @sino428: You are being so simplistic it makes me think you are being dense on purpose. Your comparisons are laughable, or just plain dumb. You pick. You're strawmaning me and arguing against a point I never made. I SAID you can get 95% of stated benefit for a quarter the cost. I didn't say 'people who buy Peloton are dumb dumbs', that was the other guy. In fact, let's look at what I *actually* said. "Whether a person wants to ride inside or outside or whatever they want to do to stay fit really makes no difference to me." and " I don't think you're brainwashed if you ride a Peloton, but for those considering indoor exercise options just realize there are cheaper ways to get 95% of the experience if you can make due with calling it your stationary bike instead of your Peloton." Yet you want to have a go at me why? Needed a bogeyman you take your frustrations out on? Do you own stock in Peloton?? I've never seen someone cheerlead harder for a brand or an inanimate object, ffs. Spend the money on it, I *truly* dgaf. My comment was for those who would like the majority of the benefits for a fraction of the cost, not crybaby suburbanites that need validations for their purchases.

Enjoy your Peloton dude. Not going to argue with you any further.
  • 1 0
 @mikealive: You've resorted to name calling. Thats when you should realize you have lost an argument.
  • 2 0
 If you like your Peloton, man up and own it rather than looking for validation by convincing everybody that it's great.
  • 1 1
 @Mlloyd550: I'm not sure what "manning up" has to do with a conversation about stationary bikes, but maybe just look at some of the other comments I've made on this article.
  • 1 0
 @sino428: You've resorted to making things up out of thin air. That's when you should realize you were arguing with a ghost of your imagination the whole time.

That is unless you can show me where I actually called you a name?
  • 1 0
 @mikealive: So now you are going back and editing your comments? You added 200 words to the post where you called me dumb after I responded to it. Can't even stand by what you originally wrote?
  • 1 0
 @sino428: WHERE...? Where is it that you believe I called you this?? A simple ask. Just quote it. If you can't, you are making things up. I never called you dumb, edited or not!

And yes, you can edit a comment for what, like 3 minutes after you post it? Do you think this is a big 'gotcha' or something? But seeing as how you say I *added* to it, not deleted it, what is the issue? Feel free to screen grab and post a link to the image of where I called you anything, would LOVE to see this dude.. spoiler, you can't. Because it never happened.

Any other goalposts you would like to move, or are you going to take some responsibility in the fact that I've never been the person you thought you were arguing with this whole time?
  • 15 0
 I just created this account so I can voice my displeasure at Cannondale / Dorel / Pon's BS.

Around 15 years ago Cannondale top management decided they were not getting rich enough, and closed the C-dale factory in Pennsylvania, hundreds lost their jobs, and cannondale became yet another anonymous, contract made bike brand sourcing frames from China and Taiwan.
Fast forward to current times, and C-dale bosses decide they are not getting rich enough due to current logistics limitations and build another new factory in Georgia, as well as a new assembly facility in Holland.
I wonder how long it be until they decide they can maximize profits by moving again? I hope any new cannondale employees at these new location know the backstory before they buy a house.

They have shown zero respect for their employees, zero respect for any place of business....not commiting to any location for any longer than it takes to squeeze every last drop out of it, before they take off, always looking for the next small to mid sized town who is willing to give them a tax break in order to attract their business, in form of a new factory or office and the jobs that go with ( however tomporary they many be).

If you have any place in your heart for the worker, the common man or woman who works payday to payday, I suggest you dont support cannondale.
  • 3 0
 The big thing to remember about the Georgia location is that is not a factory. Just an assembly place. At this time no frames will be welded or carbon frames made in Georgia. All the frames and parts will come over from Asia. Now the parent company does own a factory that makes frames in Brazil. Not sure if they do any Carbon frames in Brazil. I would not be surprised if they did not make alloy frames in Brazil and then ship them to Georgia to assemble. They could control production better that way.
  • 1 0
 And let's be honest, Georgia wasn't chosen for its wonderful peeps (which they have many) and amazing food (OMG, the south eats good food!)... cheap labor (but far from cheapest) and lax regulations were no doubt the key factors on top of tax breaks.

Not sure about US laws but here in Canada "country of origin" is value based, i.e. wherever majority of the value is added to a product is where it can be labelled as having originated. Is it the same in the US? I wonder if that is why they've chosen US-based assembly.
  • 12 1
 PON will slowly gobble up the big three Not that i'm a fan of them but when a gorilla this size is in biz they're only worried about one thing, profits. They are NOT a bike company in any way shape or form, they acquire businesses for profit. Have a look at the other holdings they have for example, agricultural interests such as massive GMO companies, mining, nickel, gas, coal etc....
  • 17 1
 Can't speak for the others, but Specialized will never be gobbled until Sinyard is long in the grave. It has been tried before, they would rather shut the place down than be "acquired".
  • 6 1
 @bikebasher: Doesn't Merida own 49% of Specialized? Granted, Merida is an actual bike company, but that's pretty close to being "acquired."
  • 3 0
 Pon also has a history of letting profitable companies continue on their path. They are one of the few investment firms that let the companies they purchase continue with their business models without cleaning house and changing what made them successful.
  • 3 1
 @krka73: They used to. Sinyard had been buying it back over the years. However, around the water cooler the talk is that during Sinyards divorce a couple of years ago his ex-wife got half and sold it to Merida. All rumors though...
  • 7 0
 @Swangarten: DAMN, if that's true about the EX, that's one hell of a kick to balls!
  • 11 1
 @krka73: 49% mathematically is close, but 49% is far from close to any form of control.
  • 6 0
 I seriously doubt they could or would gobble up Giant. I don't think most people truly know how large of a manufacturer they really are. They make\build more than bicycles, including items such electric transportation equipment all the way to rims for motorcycles such as KTM.
  • 1 0
 @OzarkBike: As of this moment assuming I've done the conversion right they are approximately a 4.2 billion USD company. PON as per their website does 8.26 billion USD in sales, and most good companies generally make about 10% net profit after taxes. So one could say that with a little bit of research you could find out exactly how big both of those companies are and the likelihood of PON taking out Giant.
  • 1 0
 @noplacelikeloam: very correct. The other interesting aspect of that relationship that a quick google search pulls up is that the majority of Specialized bikes are made by Merida, which just makes sense. It's the next best thing to owning your own supply chain.
  • 5 0
 @ndefeo96: is that why they told Santa Cruz to make an ebike immediately even though Roskopp said he would "die before he made an ebike"
  • 2 0
 @bikebasher: Specialized won't be acquired, they'll simply be outbid by a larger conglomerate like PON. Specialized just lost 20 of their best dealers in the nation because PON bought them. they'll continue down this path and the big 3 are the first in line
  • 2 0
 @OzarkBike: its not about gobbling them up, its about buying out the shops that are their biggest buyers out from under them. We have many 100's of shops that are cash rich after the pandemic boom, retirement age and wanting out. they'll sell to PON
  • 2 0
 @sirbikealot: Can't tell if you write articles for bicycle retailer or just read their articles because a few points are almost identical to an article I just found lol. Most of what we have in Canada is independent stores with the exception of Cyclepath, which is a specialized dealer and yeah could potentially be a takeout target for PON. Interesting....
  • 2 0
 They need to buy Pro’s closet. That’s the last part. No need to get too aggressive on retailers if you can sink resale value of your competition artificially.
  • 1 0
 @friendlyfoe: 2019 data showed a net income before tax of sub-$200MM USD (4.8billion NT). When you consider the multiples generally paid in the industrial and consumer segments PON could likely swallow Giant (in the same year PON had just over $200MM USD in similar income). When you add Dorel financials into the mix... I don't know if they would do it, and it would be a big nut, but it is certainly possible.
  • 2 0
 @sirbikealot: Bingo - buy shops, build a network of retail access points for customer pick-up, service and warranty. A hybrid direct to consumer model with far more control over customer experience than the likes of Norco trying to do the same through the existing dealer network.
  • 1 0
 @pourquois-pas: Would certainly be interesting to know how much cash and cash equivalents PON has at the moment. That being said I doubt they'd go after giant as even with incredibly weak anti-trust laws that sort of a move would certainly raise a few eyebrows. Besides it's much more fun to take market share from your number one competitor than simply buying them out lol.
  • 1 0
 @friendlyfoe: I would expect their flowing tight right now after the Dorel acquisition! Anti-trust would certainly stick their noses in should such a merger would ever be tabled, though I'm not sure if it would be blocked given the OpCos generally run independently. Probably more likely another Holdco comes into the mix and tries to compete with PON. Time will tell.

Interesting times in the industry, that's for sure!
  • 1 0
 @sirbikealot: Sorry. I thought you were talking about global worth between the 2.
  • 10 1
 Giant is the worlds largest bicycle manufacturer, and owns the aluminum mines and smelters they use, lays up carbon from the raw fibers. Even if you don't ride a Giant, you likely own (or have owned) a Giant-built bike. The second largest bike manufacturer in the world (Merida) owns a significant portion of Specialized (part of why you can't get a Merida in the US). Pon will likely continue using those two companies to build their products-they'll be fine.

As for Trek, they've gone from offering US made (from US tubing) bikes from $600 in the 1990's to making ZERO bikes in-house. They have to contract all of their manufacturing with Giant, Merida, or Ideal because no other vendors can meet their volume needs. Having a rival like Pon to fight for limited production volume may hurt them, Being unable to rely on manufacturing revenue building for other brands limits them. They could get squeezed as the bike industry consolidates. It'd be a shame, but they decided to make this bed over 20 years ago.
  • 9 0
 @wyorider Trek does use Giant to build some bikes. Mainly Carbon and Full-Suspensions. Bikes like the Marlins, X-Calibers, Roscoes, and Duel Sports are now built by AJ Bikes Cambodia, because of the China Tariff Tax. Ace Trikes also build some of the bikes for Trek/Electra. I would say Giants only build 15% of Trek unit now. Merida or Ideal don't build Treks. I believe Merida is building mostly Specialized and Scott bikes. Ideal was building Cannondale/Schwinn/GT/Mongoose but I am not sure about that anymore. But with Pon buying Cannondale/Schwinn/GT/Mongoose you could see the bikes shift on who builds them. I would guess who ever gives Schwinn/Cannondale/GT/Santa Cruz/Cervelo/Focus/etc... the best price will be the new builder and that could bump Trek away from Giant, if Giant gets the contact. Going to be interesting.
  • 1 0
 @Hpbike: didn’t realize Trek was using smaller vendors than the big 3. It’ll be interesting indeed to see how they (and Pon) deal with ensuring the volume of production needed.
  • 1 0
 @Hpbike: last time I checked C-Tech (Giants carbon division ) only made Giant and Colnago bikes, has that changed?
  • 3 0
 @OnTheRivet: Yes Giant is still building the Carbon Treks. My understanding is that Giant has a dedicated area just for Trek Carbon bikes.
  • 7 0
 Man, a thread in a pb comments thats full of informed, informative, useful information. Amazing.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: would absolutely love to see a qualified article on this part of the supply chain. importyeti.com is fun for this too.
  • 9 1
 The Peloton story is over simplified here. They saw record growth with an expanding product line at the start of the pandemic. Then, after a few law suits following the tread fiasco, a reduced product line, thousands of recalls and half of America deciding that COVID was all but over, guess what, it's an uphill battle.
  • 10 0
 Basically they thought they were going somewhere when we were all just going nowhere but now that we are going somewhere it turns out they are going nowhere fast. I mean they are here to stay but not going somewhere like before. Unless you bought one in which case it's going up on eBay pretty soon along with all your other wellness bollocks
  • 3 0
 The issue really seems to be the expectation by wall street that a gross margin above 30% is sustainable. Typically 20% margin is considered high. I just read this as the growth is tapering and the business is maturing. Sure it's essentially old tech with an ipad. However having used an old trainer and commuter bike for cardio rehab after a heart attack and a Peloton, the Peloton is far superior. I believe the key is one can take out developing their own workout and still get results. I still prefer to get out on my real bike but can say I've developed way more fitness on a stationary bike that just translates to a better ride and experience on the trail.
  • 2 0
 @Cronarkom: problem with Peloton is they were valued as software/tech company but 80% of their revenue comes from hardware sales, which have dropped off sharply
  • 4 0
 @browner: Where are you going with this?
  • 2 0
 @gregs22: they are a tech company. The product is a conduit to the network effect of subscribers. It has a similar investment profile as annuities. Telecom has been working this angle for years and it has served them well.
  • 6 0
 Peloton is a terrible investment... they want to be a service company that appeals to people over the long term but they deliberate ignore committed cyclists with their offerings in favor of selling hardware to soccer moms who lose interest in six months.
  • 9 0
 Too bad John Foley, no more Tres Comas for you.
  • 5 0
 The bigger issue with Peleton is they have the stupidest business practices in the history of the planet. The instructors come to you from a studio in NYC. Why pay the rent and inflated salaries for people in NYC. It is a spinning class there are millions of teachers living everywhere, send them a greenscreen and pay them a tiny salary.
  • 5 0
 "Sometimes I let the nanny ride my Peloton. But the solarium is my space, so she only can ride in the garage and only when she’s disciplining my children"
  • 2 0
 Peloton is just an example of a retail investor darling in a massive bubble with people throwing disposible income at a rising stock massively overpricing it. Very similar to Tesla. There will be a crash soon and it will be bigger than 2008.
  • 12 11
 If you look closely enough at global corporate ownership, trace back to who owns what, it boils down to basically one company that owns or controls most of the world which is Vanguard, who publicly controls over 7 trillions in funds. Corporations have one mandate, shareholder profit, that is their duty by law, above anything else, above the climate, above human rights, and certainly above bikes unfortunately.
  • 3 3
 Just did a quick test of this theory, taking the above post about Specialized I looked up their ownership, they are still listed as a private company, so randomly I checked ownership of Shimano as they were listed as the largest bike company that is public. The top 10 mutual fund investors have the name Lazard that occurs in 4 separate companies, then looking up Lazard the majority stakeholder was Vanguard, so Vanguard controls Shimano.
  • 5 0
 I have to say the one mandate rule is absolutely out of date at this point. Governance has expanded way beyond even the triple bottom line and thankfully businesses are being held to account by the consumer more than ever before. If you run your business on the sole principle of profit, you wont last long before your customers come crashing down on you. Tragically hard for VC and PE to recognize, but profits follow a greater mission in todays world.
  • 13 0
 Nope - thats simply not true. Vanguard is an asset mananger - and not even the biggest - they invest their clients money for them, following strategies asked for by thier clients. They facilitate the investment of that 7 Trillion from 1000's of pension funds etc but in no way own it. Most of it will be through index linked investments - like ETF's - that track the DOW or other known baskets of assets... so very limited control even though they will be noted as shareholders across the firms in those indices.. They have influence - see recent pressure from other asset managers on firms around ESG - but dont "control" things like some people on the "internet" think.
  • 4 2
 @Bomadics: There is no "duty by law" that corporations put shareholders profits above all else.
  • 3 1
 @Bombadics You need to not post about corporate governance or stock market dynamics ever again. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone who has browsed down this far is now dumber for having read what you just wrote. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.
  • 2 1
 @hatton: hey dude, believe whatever you want, and have a great day, you clearly have no idea of modern monetary theory.
  • 2 1
 @Karve: don't believe the hype, do some reading, a criminal organization will not publicize that they are criminal, doh!
  • 1 1
 @Karve: also you clearly did not read my post, so try a little harder next time eh?
  • 3 1
 @Bomadics: @Bomadics: I'm tempted to mark off every time you're wrong in earlier statements and why what you're saying makes no sense. Instead, I'm going to go with an easy one - "Most Of" in the english language means at least a majority or over 51%. As @karve mentioned, at roughly $7T in AUM, Vanguard is the worlds second largest asset manager behind blackrock.

If you want to actually understand how shareholders exert influence, you'd have to look at proxy voting and Board Membership. Two points here. Vanguard does not elect anyone within the organization to Board seats like you might see from an activist strategy. In addition, Vanguard does not control the proxy voting of a large chunk of their assets that are managed by a subadvisor. They allow the subadvisor to vote on their behalf.

Anyways. Let me know if you want me to keep tearing you apart.
  • 2 0
 @hatton: On top of all this, people should do some reading about Vanguard. It doesn’t even have owners or shareholders. They are a ‘client owned’ company. The company is owned by its funds themselves, which is how they always kept fees so low, (and forced all other companies to do the same). There are no corporate profits to even be made by Vanguard. Jack Bogle who founded Vanguard should have been a multi-billionaire if he ran Vanguard like all other investment managers. But instead was worth about $80 million when he died. Sure still obscenely wealthy but a fraction of the wealth he could have made.
  • 3 1
 "I told you so. Now put it on market place for $1000obo, and no, I will not deliver it. " The words spoken by every husband of the Covid Age, 4 weeks after being suckered by their wives for a stupid f*cking Peleton.
  • 5 0
 PTON...BUY THE FUCKKIN DIPPPPPPP
  • 2 0
 I get this reference
  • 2 0
 today I learned that some folks refer to sledgehammers as 'hand-held sledgehammers'. Makes me wonder if they think there are foot-held sledgehammers as a more common variation or something.
  • 4 1
 So you just need a proof of purchase(ebike) and you'll then get $ from the fed or hows all that work?
  • 4 1
 It's a tax credit so proof of purchase attached when you submit your taxes in the year you purchased the ebike.
  • 1 1
 Sounds good to me!
  • 3 0
 @provin1327: Like every other tax credit ever, proof of purchase is never submitted with the taxes. You might be asked for it if you’re audited but probably not even then.
  • 4 0
 Kinda silly to only include e-bikes and exclude bikes without assistance. More than enough people use their (unassisted) holiday trekking bikes for commuting. Or just an unassisted commuter or cargo bike. Seems to me not everyone has steep hills on their commutes in that they need assistance.
  • 2 1
 @vinay: I agree, its the dumbest tax credit ever and does very little for how much it's going to cost tax payers.
  • 2 0
 Seems ripe for fraud right?
  • 1 0
 @jrocksdh: I think us dirtbag mountain bikers are pretty low on the list for the IRS. And additionally, this is really no different than the existing tax write off experience for donations to, for instance, the Goodwill. I claim a few hundred every year but I’ve never been asked for receipts.
  • 1 0
 @provin1327: Easy on the hyperbole there, friend. Let’s focus some energy on the 1%ers who pay far less in taxes than me or you.
  • 1 0
 @sngltrkmnd: sure but with ebikes were talking about $1000s.
I'm hoping they dont requires pedals.
I want an electric motion trials Wink
  • 1 0
 @provin1327: My work gives me 750 euros every five years for a bike. For that kind of money you can get a strong bike with roller brakes, hub dynamo, hub gear and well, it easily lasts those five years. And I think you can spend 80 euros a year on parts and gear. So wear is pretty much covered. I paid a bit more to get a superstrong steel beast with a 7sp Nexus, front basket, room for a kid front and rear, custom color etc for 1200 euro. If you want a bike with pedal assistance, you just pay a bit more. If the law says these bikes are identical then it goes for both their place on the road/trail as well as the financing scheme.
  • 3 0
 Where did they dig up that lead photo, of the stacks of 5-bolt disc rotors?
  • 4 0
 WTF is this?
  • 3 1
 Rad Power has a new CEO in Dick Pound
  • 1 0
 our worst canadian ever
  • 2 2
 Glad to see the top notch journalism here cough cough, I mean, reposts from other outside owned media. Place is going to hell.
  • 2 0
 I shorted PTON. It felt right. #namaste
  • 1 0
 How did bike and, more broadly, fitness/sports companies not expect the bubble to burst on covid boosted sales?
  • 1 0
 these articles are terrible. Kill that icon pic with fire, now.
  • 9 10
 Peleton if there's anything worse than an ebike, it's an ebike where you don't even leave the house
  • 3 3
 It’s not an ebike though.
  • 2 0
 @extratalldirtrider: Correct. Not an ebike or otherwise a bike at all. Therefore, not bike news?

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