Innsbruck Bans Downhill Bikes from Public Transport

May 17, 2019
by Ed Spratt  
No such thing as an ugly view here in Tirol...

Innsbruck's public transport authorities have banned anyone riding a bike with a dual crown fork or using a full face helmet from using all public transport.

A ban against downhillers in the city first came after a violent incident involving a rider and a member of staff on the Nordketten-Bahn cable car that ended with the member of staff having to go to hospital.

Initially, the ban was only placed on the Nordketten-Bahn itself for the month of May, allowing riders with downhill bikes to use the rest of the public transport in the area, but recently IVB, the company that operates the trams, trains and buses, began to enforce the same ban across all of their own system of transportation as well. The ban at the moment specifically applies to downhill riders with other mountain bikers able to use the transportation as normal.

Riders in Innsbruck rely on the Hungerburgbahn funicular to access the Anzer Alm and Hungerburg trails and the Norketten-Bahn to access the infamous Nordkette singletrail. Some riders will also use public transport to get to the nearby Innsbruck Bike Park, which actually lies 6km out of the city centre in Mutters.

Laurie Greenland going full huck into the finish area and top ten time.

Tirol ORF reports that according to Thomas Schroll, managing director of the Nordketten-Bahn, "Up to 500 downhillers want to be transported to the Hungerburg Trail every day." Schroll has found that in recent years the number of incidents involving cyclists has risen and that downhillers have "no understanding" if they are refused access to the funicular. He said, "the problem of limits and lack of capacities in the spring and the usage conflicts with other guests has finally led us to take off downhill bikers for May."

Sabine Oswald from Downhill Club Tirol said, "The Hungerburgbahn is important to us. It would also be bad for the Bike-City Innsbruck if you can not go with the Hungerburgbahn." She blames "a few black sheep" for the ban that she does not believe should apply to all downhill riders. Another local news source, Der Standard, reported that a number of parents who let their children use public transport so they can get access to the trails have found that members of staff have been aggressive towards their children and accuse the transport companies of presenting a biased view of the situation.

Innsbruck Tourism has also weighed in on the issue and seems keen to resolve it. They said, "We are aware of the issue, and are already working with the Innsbruck City Authorities to urgently find a solution. Obviously, quality mountain biking facilities and the corresponding infrastructure are an absolute priority for us at the Tourism Board, and it is of great importance to us that we resolve the situation quickly – and permanently."

Currently, it is unclear how far the ban extends but it does raise complex issues. What if a rider in a full face helmet with a trail/enduro bike tries to get on the transport, are they refused as well? The Nordketten-Bahn ban is currently only planned for the month of May but there is no official confirmation on how long the ban on the IVB network will last or if it will affect Crankworx next month. We'll update this story when we have any more information.


243 Comments

  • + 250
 Alternate Pinkbike Titles:

"Innsbruck Public Transport Officials: Downhillers should Earn their Turns, just like those EWS riders"
"Public Transport's not for everyone, says Innsbruck"
"Full-face? Full-stop, says Innsbruck public transport"
"Our bike racks aren't big enough for 29er Downhill bikes, says Innsbruck"
  • + 49
 You're hired
  • + 7
 I laughed
  • + 119
 You missed the clickbait one:
Downhill bike mountain bike rider in Innsbruck shows you this easy trick to get to the top of the trails, public transport hates him, what happens next will shock you!
  • + 11
 I say: Innsbruck you can forget on my money.
  • + 2
 "Bauer Austria....." chers Big Grin
  • + 5
 @Clarkeh: "Start Slideshow"
  • + 6
 @Clarkeh: Dentists hate him!
  • + 14
 @Clarkeh: you deserve so many upvotes!

This secret trick will make your wheel size grow in 4 minutes! 29er owners hate this!
  • + 6
 Its so cool that a city has this problem, Struggling to vizualize 500 DH riders riding up on the Table Mountain cable way and bombing down into Camps Bay on a few steep DH tracks. We can dream...
  • + 8
 @headshot: here in Chile they bought new cable cars for Cerro San Cristobal, the hill in the middle of the city, since they were old models, they only fit 26" bikes, im not kidding, #26aintdead !!!
  • + 1
 Their hospital was loosing too much money.
  • + 3
 i.redd.it/0jzlbvqqy9r21.png

The obvious solution...
  • + 1
 @panchocampbell: #26aintdead
  • + 149
 Sales for detachable chinbar helmets rise in Innsbruck.
  • + 26
 Just slide your uppers down to the lower clamp and grab a Giro Switchblade.
  • + 7
 Alternatively: rising cases of disfiguring facial injuries likely due to under-gunned equipment.
  • + 3
 These are excellent solutions to solve the issue. Unfortunately they won't work for mountainbikers riding the original (DC) Cannondale Lefty fork. I'm expecting a return of the 200mm Manitou Travis SC fork.

Maybe we'll also see a return of those separate BMX style mouthpieces like Olly Wilkins is wearing on this classic Dirt Magazine cover:

cdn.coresites.factorymedia.com/dirt_new/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/001-DT101-UK.jpg

No one will ever be as stylish as Olly but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do as he does.
  • + 2
 ...and cue the 200mm travel single crown fork.
  • + 1
 @vinay: Is Dirt dead? Their website hasnt had any updates since this time last year.
  • + 1
 @twodogsfighting: No word from them about it but they're definitely not keeping up with the latest news. For me they were already kind of gone when they went out of print. Some nice articles indeed but it just didn't have the same vibe.

Yeah pretty interesting to see that now that people are calling for a return of mid travel DC forks (especially those who watch slow-mo huck tests) we're also expecting a return of 200mm travel SC forks like RS Totem and Manitou Travis for the Innsbruck crowd. This is what our sport needs to progress. Slow motion huck tests and physical abuse in public transport. For those who don't ride slow motion nor utilize Innsbruck public transport for their cheap uplift service: congrats! Your bike is already perfect!
  • + 66
 If you read between the lines it seems like the real issue is a lack of capacity in the transportation system during the surge of riders over a few months. Picking a specific incident that happened is just a way to justify it. Simple solution, the bike park needs to run it's own paid shuttle that gets people to the mountain.
  • + 25
 Or some enterprising Innsbruck local with a van should do it.
  • + 10
 Yes, you definitely need to read between the lines, because that report made the situation as clear as mud.
  • + 29
 No, thats not the issue. Otherwise all Bikes would be banned. You can still get a shuttle up with an enduro/trailbike no worries. You just have to risk your teeth and leave the full-face at home.

There has been a „fight“ between bikers and hikers for years now. Including nails strewn across trails and wires strung at a bikers neck height.

To my knowledge all biking on singletrails not specifically decidacted to biking is illegal. So all hiking tracks are off limits. As there are only a very, very limited number off good riding tracks bikers tend to use some hiking tracks, creating the abovementioned problems.

Innsbruck used to have really nice trails all over reachable with public transport. But their access has constantly been made harder and harder through more and more public transport lines denying DH bikes access.

There seems to be a struggle between the tourism board and the city council. One idiot loosing it and behaving in a violent matter was just what the city council needed.

I wish they would spend the money they are spending on crankworks to build more and better biking trails. At the moment Innsbruck can hardly be called a mountainbike friendly city!

In any case, so far these bans have only resulted in people buying an enduro bike and a new helmet...
  • + 3
 I totally misunderstood the article then; I thought it was a reminder that, just like any other community, mtb'ers are shitheads;

A few good people here and there, but mostly ( specially when in huge numbers ) they behave like entitled little shits;
  • + 1
 @snowintrees: I guess I should have included the quote from the very short and easy to read article.
"Tirol ORF reports that according to Thomas Schroll, managing director of the Nordketten-Bahn, "Up to 500 downhillers want to be transported to the Hungerburg Trail every day."
  • + 4
 @friendlyfoe: the thing is, the climb from the city to the hungerburg trail is easy (barely 200m elevation).
The hungerburg trail is not a DH trail and is accessed by pedaling. DHers rarely pedal or push their bikes up to the hungerburg trail, they take the cable car that brings them to the top of the Nordkette single trail (Seegrube).

This is the way it is :

City--(bus or cable car)-->Hungerburg--(gondola)-->Seegrube

If you increase the transport capacity from city-->hungerburg, you still have the problem that the transport capacity of the gondola is limited. The problem of capacity is not only happening during few months. Every week end, the gondola is saturated with either skiers, tourists or mountain bikers. It's a problem without simple solution.
  • - 2
 Gov't sucks. ANARCHY
  • + 2
 @Luis-Sc: Remove "mtb'ers" and replace with "people", and your comment still works.
  • + 0
 @Shannyla: pretty much - it's just people being shitheads - the only reason double-crown / full-face helmets are being targeted is because they don't feel like pushing the bikes up or can't really pedal it ( regardless of how low the elevation might be ) - anyways, another article justifying why intelligent life simply refuses to contact us....
  • + 1
 @Luis-Sc: Well put.... a few bad apples.
  • + 1
 @zede: I remember the problems with skiers/snowboarders.
Just didn't realise it was as bad in the summer with mountainbikers.
Having a few hotheads probably hasn't helped.
Maybe the city needs to bite the bullet and build a second gondola up that mountain?
  • + 66
 Welcome to Austria - The north korea of mountain biking
  • + 7
 @loki87 Hahaha, I'm stealing that one! Don't tell the supreme leader!
  • + 1
 Ahahaha! nice one!
  • + 1
 I can't agree more ???? spent a summer of trail building in Solden in 2017
  • + 1
 @Loki87 nice one
  • + 1
 To be fair, this was not my idea.
It´s kinda the official slogan of a satire facebook group on the recent austrian tourism marketing campaign.
  • + 5
 Pop over to Hungary. We are.. Ehm.. Dunno.. Afghanistan of mountain biking?
  • + 2
 but somehow, you may be a very drunk soccer fun, demolishing trains, metro and so ever, but even then, there will be no prohibition for those group of people...but as soon as somebody notices you are a mountainbiker....than that's different story....
  • + 3
 @BartDM:
Funny you mention that. In Austria, football fans even get their own freakin trains to travel to the games, because they don´t want them in with the regular train passengers.
They sometimes intentionally completely trash the trains, yet nobody cares or acts on it.
  • + 44
 Time to break out the enduro bikes with convertible helmets. aka Full Enduro.
  • + 23
 wait, did you strap a spare tube to the front triangle and say "i'ma get super sendy today"? you're outta here son
  • + 1
 Bro's don't let Bro's go Full Enduro. Never go full enduro.
  • + 93
 @loopie: Bros don't let Bros go full apostrophes when they mean plural. Never go full apostrophes.
  • + 1
 Life is rough in this big old meanie world.
  • - 4
flag Dallasdownunder (May 17, 2019 at 3:36) (Below Threshold)
 @LokiTheCat: or is it short for brother....
  • - 1
 @Dallasdownunder: Well...it can get kinda complicated. 'bro" in and of itself is an accepted term... and short for "brother".

"From the wikipedia article concerning the acceptable uses of an apostrophe, one is "The marking as plural of written items that are not words established in English orthography" for example "P's and Q's"

Clearly "bro" and "ho" are not standard English, so making them plural via 's is acceptable.

Therefore, I would write it as "Bro's before ho's"

Anyways...not hard facts as the word is made up. I like to use the apostrophe Smile
  • - 2
 @loopie: Bro, that’s probably the best thing I’ve even learned in the comment section.
  • - 1
 *ever
  • + 4
 @loopie: WRONG. Consult MLA or Chicago Manual of Style. You will learn that in modern English orthography, apostrophes NEVER have anything to do with the plural. It has nothing to do with the register of the word, low or high.
Ps and Qs: plural. P's Qs are the Qs that belong to P. The apostrophe marks the possessive only, full stop.
Wikipedia is a glorified rumor mill with zero editorial oversight. Do not cite it as fact.
Citing Wikipedia is not permitted in US schools, Kindergarten through University for this very reason.
  • + 1
 @BergMann: Do note that I closed my last comment with "not...fact". Anyways....You say that like someone who thinks I give a shit. I can tell you with certainty that you, Sir, are wrong...I give zero fuks.
On my death bed I shall, perhaps, see the error of my ways. At that moment...I shall rise up and with my last breath...declare two words. Zero....and f*ck's'.
  • + 35
 I'm sure the legal system is different over there, but living in California I can't imagine the lawsuit you'd be setting yourself up for by banning full face helmets but still allowing bike riders. One bad crash and someone would be very rich.
  • + 68
 Everyone has full insurance coverage, so it never occurs to anyone to sue to assure medical expenses are covered, because they already are. Their lawyer-per-capita number is a tiny fragment of California's, their legal code is not a house of cards built on shoddy precedence like ours, and there are no ignorant jurors on duty to hand out sweepstakes-mega-millions just because someone played their irrational heart-strings. Punchline: you need premeditated gross negligence on a scale vast enough to get a public prosecutor involved before that sort of case would get heard, and private parties don't get to play the system like a slot machine. This will get resolved by city officials because promoting cycling & access to public transit are two core European civic virtues: it will have zero.zero to do with fear of litigation.
  • + 73
 Thank God the "I'll sue you" culture hasn't invaded Europe. We also have this "its your own damn fault for being stupid" mentality.
  • + 6
 @LittleDominic luckily europe ain't the us, @veloscente hit it bang on
  • + 4
 Part of this is dependant on the legal framework. Out here, landowners are still liable even if they put up multiple billboards full of warnings and pointing out the dangers of the particular trail. There have recently been a few cases where injured riders' health insurers have tried to recover costs by sueing the landowners and trailbuiders. These parties have no legal protection or funding, for the most part. The problem of course is the "somebody's gotta pay" mentality that also exists among a significant portion of the riders. We don't really have an outdoor culture and are extremely risk-averse. Funny (or sad) to see how big the contrast is with e.g. France or Scandinavia.

Between that and the lack of mountains I think it's time for me to emigrate again....
  • + 7
 @Boardlife69: I can only say this - selber schuld!
  • + 5
 @Boardlife69: Accountability for your own actions? Hersey!
  • + 3
 @Veloscente: (in Sam Elliot Voice i.e. cowboy in Big Lebowski) "I like your style dude." Are you an attorney?
  • + 3
 @aerik: That's sad to hear. Here in the U.S. a number of the states, especially those with a greater reliance on the outdoors industry and tourism, have some form of a recreational immunity law. These of course vary from state to state, but generally provide landowners a degree of immunity from liability if they allow uncompensated, public access to their property for defined recreational purposes.

Of course, like all things, there are exceptions (willful acts, etc.), but at least they often provide some protection and serve as an incentive to encourage private land owners to allow public recreational use of their property.

I had always assumed Europe had something like this but on steroids (like the English concept of "Right to Roam"). However, I have never looked into if this is an actual legal right or simply a social concept that is a de facto law. Nor had I stopped to consider if this applied to bikes.
  • + 2
 I think the real irony is putting California and Public Transportation in the same sentence, let alone in a rural area
  • + 3
 @BadgerBacker: In alpine nations (Switzerland, Austria, France, Italy, etc.) there is strong precedence for "right to roam" because most of the mountain paths are ancient, strongly constrained by geography, and essential for travel between small alpine communities. As Aerik indicates, you see less of this as you head north into the flatlands where there is little to impede the network of public roads, or people building big, long fences.
As for this Dude, he appreciates the complement, dude. Not a lawyer, but spent many years living in N.Europe and teaching European cultural history in US.
  • + 3
 @Veloscente, @BadgerBacker: I think the right to roam by legal definitions is limited to Sweden (I used to ride around trashing @WAKI's back-yard until a year or two ago) and Scotland. Sweden was great because it was a total free-for-all (from my perspective, at least). Right to roam, nobody giving you sh!t about anything, very technical trails with huge potential for mistakes and..... cheap insurance to cover whatever level of stupidity you're at.

I think France has some kind of insurance framework for trailbuilders and landowners. Effectively it means if you stick to posted trails, biking, hiking or multi-use, the landowner is protected from whatever your health insurer's lawyers try to throw at them. Other countries in the west I don't know how the law works, but I've found Spain, Portugal and Italy easy-going in all respects. Switzerland a bit mixed (canton dependent), Germany is quite restrictive and Austria has to be the only place I've ever been where the Fun Police are better funded than The Netherlands. From what I can tell the anti-MTB mentality in Germany/Austria/The Netherlands is very much a combination of the angry hiking lobby and all trails being on private land, with landowners fearful of either conflicts or claims.
  • + 35
 Is the Hungerbergbahn a place where you can eat with no speed limits? This article leaves more questions than answers.
  • + 2
 The article is just full of typos. Not a word is spelled properly.
  • + 1
 Lolol
  • + 27
 did anyone else imagine a bunch of people who talk like the muppet's swedish chef arguing with each other?
  • + 96
 "hey ah you weet da fully facey and yer foxy furty, get erfa da bus bee-fore i puncha you in da bork bork bork bork"
  • + 6
 @rocky-mtn-gman: As a Scandinavian I feel that’s a bit racist! Haha :p
  • + 14
 @brdfrb: I think you mean a bit ethnicist, but perhaps you're a non-white Scandinavian
  • + 18
 @bvd453: Sorry, when English is your second language, and you talk just like above post states, it’s easy to mess terms like that........
  • + 2
 @rocky-mtn-gman: I actually lol'd
  • + 3
 @brdfrb: Why? He said Swedish chef....
  • + 2
 @rocky-mtn-gman: lol.. funniest thing I've seen on this site in a long time.. thanks.
  • + 2
 @rocky-mtn-gman: Me, literally, lol lol lol
that was awesome. Helps that I also love the Muppets.
Salute
  • + 1
 @rocky-mtn-gman: Can you favorite a comment? I need this featured on my page.
  • + 2
 @brdfrb: As a (part) Scandinavian I feel that's hilarious! Razz
  • + 0
 Bwanahahahahahahaha @rocky-mtn-gman:
  • + 5
 No, because the Swedish Chef is from Sweden, and this here is in Austria.
  • + 7
 @TheR: hey vu vith zee full face und your fox forty, get off of zee pus pefore I bunch vu in zee pork pork pork pork
  • + 35
 @TheR: Austria?…well then, good day mate. let’s put another shrimp on the barbie!
  • + 2
 @TheR: It's still funny.
  • + 1
 @matttauszik: I prefer swedish fish. I hope that isnt racist.
  • + 5
 @Veloscente: ahahhahaha hahaha... This never gets old.
  • + 2
 @Svinyard: it does when you live here
  • + 3
 @davidrobinsonphoto: ah of course sorry man. That being said, you guys have really taken one for the team on this one for a while. Cheers
  • + 5
 People think it is made up but that is actually how we talk!
  • + 1
 @brdfrb: They just hate you cause they see socialist ideas working in Scandinavia, while they are getting ripped off in their crony capitalism
  • + 4
 Swedish chef is still the most famous swede in us. Second place is Björn Borg and third is "sic" ABBA.
  • + 23
 Bring back the rockshox totem - problem solved
  • + 5
 Best fork ever imo
  • + 4
 Manitou Travis SC, 200mm. Now we have competition too.
  • + 16
 THIS ARTICLE NEED CORRECTION!!! All non-city bikes have been banned, even half shell riders with trail bikes are not allowed at the moment. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
  • + 3
 The new trend is to put slicks on the mtb, foldable tires in the backpack, and then change tires at the bike park.
#desperateshredders
  • + 13
 Have they banned everyone ever from using transit based on a single non biker related "violent incident"? If you're going to ban one group based on the actions of an individual....
  • + 1
 NABALT
  • + 1
 No, it says a rider. What a muppet! He should be made to pay for private shuttles for everyone for his stupidity.
  • + 8
 "Up to 500 downhillers want to be transported to the Hungerburg Trail every day." Sounds like you just lost 182500 riders that pay to use the transit per year. Assuming $5 for fare that's $912,500 of lost revenue.
  • + 3
 @femto505: sounds like a job for the Huckwagon.
  • + 7
 @freeriderayward: You missed my point. I'm sure that there has been non biker violence against staff in their transit system by someone with two legs.
They probably didnt respond by banning everyone who has two legs.
  • + 7
 @femto505: Na, a lot of the locals have the so called "Freizeitticket" for around 500€ (valid for a whole year summer and winter in the region with many different lift companies participating) and so the Nordkettenbahnen GmbH, who owns the Hungerburgbahn prefers to transport more tourists, which pay 36,50€ for a roundtrip to the top.
A single biker takes up as much space as 4-5 tourists, so do the math who they prefer...

@nouseforaname The staff is unfortunately often very rude, which I already had to experience twice while going for a hike with my girlfriend. So even if I don't know the specific circumstances, I am sure that both parties share the guilt for the incident.
  • + 13
 Sounds like time for someone to cash in on shuttle services...
  • + 3
 Was just thinking that very thing myself. Time to get my plane ticket booked and hire a van!
  • + 9
 As if Innsbruck as a mountainbike destination wasn't laughable enough. And isn't most of the bikepark Innsbruck closed in 2019? No wonder everyone wanted to ride the Nordkette...
  • + 2
 I mean a guy fighting to access to a trail still full of snow and that is closed... I doesn't show DHers from the best angle...
  • + 4
 True enough. The guy was trying to access the only legal trail available (the "One-trail-is-enough-bikepark (but full-price)" isn't open yet). With bike transport limited to 20 bikes per hour the situation was tense even before the ban - the mentioned incident, it was only a question of time for something like this to happen.

Don't get me wrong, the potential here is huge, there is just this traditional aversion against mountainbikers - and unfortunatly people with power here are mostly traditionally rooted...
  • + 1
 @Evolution13: Is the trail even open ? With all the trees down from the avalanches and wind I thought it was blocked for maintenance
  • + 2
 @zede: Partly, the top part of the Arzler Alm Trail is not yet accessible but the lower 3/4 are (including the Hungerburg entry)
  • + 1
 @Evolution13: so sad...feel you...most places in CA are like that too!!!! It's all about the hikers and horse riders for over 40 yrs and not many changes in sight. It's like the beginning of skate boarding or snowboarding around here.
  • + 6
 They got rid of 100% of the crime by getting rid of 70% of their customers.

Seriously though, we say mountain biking is a very open sport but the reality is that most mountainbiking communities in Europe are hostile to outsiders (and even other MTBers). Hell, I've been harassed just for having a new bike.
  • + 11
 this is a bit odd. here in the US its not like we're a big family or anything but I see a guy with a mountain bike on his car and I throw him a wave usually I get a wave back.
  • + 2
 @bmx95ify: oh, if we were close to 70%...we wouldn't have access issues
  • + 4
 @bmx95ify

Well im not sure whereabouts in Poland you are, but when i go to see my mates in Wroclaw, theyre all well nice, even towards UK bikers.....
Same goes for most of the rest of Europe too....
  • + 3
 I've found Polish riders to be super friendly.
  • + 2
 @ryanandrewrogers: ya.. it's not like that here
  • + 2
 @Ian713: yes indeed, ive found that too... and in CZ, and Germany too.
  • + 5
 Tirol is funny - the government is anti bikes, strictly enforcing a stupid 2 Meter rule (width of trails) an banning bikes from all trails.
The tourism association tries to lure more people to the few legal trails and even hosts crankworks.

Stay out of Innsbruck if you can. There are many regions which are a lot more fun.

The crankworx tean should also reconsider wasting their brand on a city which does not embrace biking.
  • + 1
 @B1k3Chri1s : I wish I had good arguments to prove you wrong, but I don't.

As it stands, Innsbruck is a good long term base camp. Let's say you're here for a month.
You have Leogang/Saalbach to the east, then Serfaus, Soelden, Nauders to the west.

Plus some local trails for the rest/rainy days. But a BikeCity it is not yet.
Fingers crossed for things to improve in the near future.
  • + 9
 Does a lefty count as dual crown?
  • + 2
 Asking the real questions here.
  • + 4
 Update for 2020: Innsbruck's public transport authorities have banned brown people from using all public transport. Employees were provided with colour charts to identify said suspects.
me.me/i/airportsecurity-check-okay-not-okay-family-guy-called-it-muslimban-8524795
  • + 4
 A good opportunity for Red Bull to flex its muscles in a productive way....by telling the city to be nice to MTB’ers or else Red Bull will find another venue for their comps
  • + 4
 So if you are rocking a 180mm Fox 36 on a Scott Voltage and have a Giro Switchblade with the chin guard in your bag its ok? This makes no sense.
  • + 3
 This where my thougts - as a owner of a 180mm Formula Selva on a Propain Spindrift and Bell Super2R...
  • + 2
 @Werratte: DITTO. i aslo have a single crown Spindrift, and both open lid an FF helmet. it would be fun to test the situation and mess a beit with the brain of the cabel car operators Big Grin
  • + 2
 happend to me that ppl saw me with my dh bike close to innsbruck by saying that people like me destroy the environment.
avoid austria for biking as good as you can, mtbikers are seen as enemies and are basically not welcome anywhere (restaurants, trails, and so on).
  • + 2
 I can't believe most people's takeaway from this is to blame the transport operator. This is a solid reminder that we are all representatives of our sport when we are out riding and we should behave as such at all times as our access to the trails and infrastructure we love so much is a fragile thing.
  • - 5
flag jasminov (May 16, 2019 at 23:48) (Below Threshold)
 You're trying explain it to pigs?!.. )
  • + 14
 If anything it's a reminder of how short sighted the 'powers that be' can be. We all know not to judge a whole group of people on the actions of one person. But all it takes to get ALL downhillers banned from public transport is one dickhead to start a fight on a bus? Seriously?

It would be like banning drunk people from public transport because a drunk idiot threw a punch at someone.

I get that we are all stewards of our sport, but there are dickheads in every sport. Blanket bans are an unnecessary and ridiculous knee-jerk reaction.
  • + 3
 I get your point, but in this case why put the blame on ourselves? In every group there are foul eggs. It's always a good idea to behave well, but here the real problem is an overreaction by officials due to said foul egg.
  • - 3
 @sam264: do you know how many non-MTBers are there comparing to MTBers? If all the MTBers (not only DHers) will be banned - Innsbruck will loose ... just nothing. So, try to think about it..
MTBers til 30 years old are very often as pigs.
  • + 1
 @jasminov:
I understand that and that's exactly my point.
The authorities tend to care very little about mountain bikers because for the most part we are a minority and contribute very little to the economy overall and in large cities.

Mountain biking also seems to be seen a reckless sport, especially to the older generations than generally have the power.

As a result, it takes very little actual conflict to make us look bad as a whole.
  • + 0
 "to judge a whole group of people on the actions of one person"

it reminds me the situation with campers ("one-day nature visitors") - every and each one always say: I will never leave any garbage after myself, etc. And in the end - river-sides, forests,.. are all in garbage.
So, I guess, the only PRACTICAL way to stop it (at least a little bit) is to ban everyone from visiting such places.
  • - 2
 "As a result, it takes very little actual conflict to make us look bad as a whole."

I'm more than sure that there were not only one-two of such kinda conflicts.. From time to time I just see all those young MTbers and their behavior and I understand why others don't like them.
MTBers just must understand one thing - nobody cares about you and nobody HAS to care. Your riding - it's your way of having a rest; you don't create anything socialy important, you don't help anybody else, you just having fun time for yourself and that's all. So, if you want to have all-inclusive - get yourself a fund, buy out some land with mountain, build trails, make some shuttle or lift - and then, you're da boss there.
  • + 2
 @jasminov: doesn't this have to do with manners and schooling rather than the possession of a mountain bike?
  • + 8
 @mattwrag I in no way defend the idiotic behavior of the said mountain biker.

However, there have been violent accidents involving skiers. I don't see a skiers ban.

That's just the latest manifestation of the hatred towards bikers.
  • - 1
 @Milko3D: of cause it does, so what? Right now, right here - tons of mtbers behaving like **** . What is your solution? Having conversations on some online-boards, facebooks and other shit? Wake up and make real decision just right now (even if it's not the best).

Me, as a mtber, I'm sad of that situation with banning, but I understand.
  • + 1
 @Milko3D: "However, there have been violent accidents involving skiers. I don't see a skiers ban. "
C'mon, man, seriously, wake up. MONEY.
Can you see the difference in income from skiers and some bunch of mtbers?..
p.s. and why should somebody ban skier from getting into bus? with skies|board..
  • + 1
 @jasminov: I'd understand your point weren't it for the fact that Innsbruck lives from tourism, brands itself as "Bikecity", host a freckin Crankworx stop! Choose your poison but you can't market something which isn't there - you have to care.
Somewhere else I might just be part of an annoyed minority, but here I'm part of a marketing concept which is currently imploding.
  • + 1
 @jasminov: yes, money, no question. And old school traditionalists.

As for the other thing. How is that a solution?
Take those spoiled brats and put them on skis, do they turn into fine members of society? No!

The underlying problem is education at home and at school. But no one can touch that issue...so they blame it on something else.
  • + 0
 @Evolution13: "Choose your poison but you can't market something which isn't there - you have to care. "
I bet none of citizens will die if they loose their brand as 'bikecity', seriously.
But anyway, yes, of course it's better to find solutions good for each side.
  • + 0
 @Milko3D: "As for the other thing. How is that a solution?."
I see lot of pigs on bikes everywhere in bikeparks and trails. So, what's your solutions for a small nice old good town Innsbruck? )

"Take those spoiled brats and put them on skis, do they turn into fine members of society? No!."
No, but it doesn't change the existing situation/problem with them right here and right now.

"The underlying problem is education at home and at school.."
we all are pigs sometimes somewhere, so.. tha's just a bla-bla. Anyone should be more educated, more ... etc.

"so they blame it on something else."
you are the usual citizen of Innsbruck (imagine you're not mtber), your solution?
Once again, I'm deadly sure there were lot of incidents, not just one mentioned in article.
  • + 0
 @Milko3D: I don't think there are enough facts here to make any kind of judgement on the situation - maybe the authorities are overly hard on mountain bikers, maybe mountain bikers are particularly bad customers for the transport authority, I'd guess by your flag you have a better handle on the situation than I do. But.. as evolved human beings, I believe our first response should be "what can we do better?" rather than cry unfair treatment.
  • + 1
 @jasminov: Ski's and boards have sharp metal edges and can be swung around as weapons that can cause injury! Also in an accident they can be thrown around and cause injury these would be a valid reasons to ban their transport! especially as those items can be hired at the slopes = more MONEY
  • + 3
 @mattwragg: "what can we do better?"
Yes.

and one more thing: visitors of bikeparks (all over the world) MUST always remember and fully understand - they are only guests there, so they should behave appropriate.
  • + 1
 @Bozman-69: "Ski's and boards have sharp metal edges and can be swung around as weapons that can cause injury! Also in an accident they can be thrown around and cause injury these would be a valid reasons to ban their transport! "

I don't think you are serious here.. )
How many accidents like that do you know? Except hollywood horors.. )))
  • + 2
 @mattwragg The situation is a bit more complex than that.
A lot of the locals have the so called "Freizeitticket" for around 500€ (valid for a whole year summer and winter in the region with many different lift companies participating) and so the Nordkettenbahnen GmbH, who owns the Hungerburgbahn prefers to transport more tourists, which pay 36,50€ for a roundtrip to the top.
A single biker takes up as much space as 4-5 tourists, so do the math who they prefer...

The same is valid for the winter season, as skiers make more work (the Nordkette is very avalanche prone and each day after snow has fallen you can hear the loud bangs of the ski patrol setting of avalanches) and pay very little in comparison to tourists just taking pictures and eating at the top.

Therefore every opportunity there is to make more money is welcome and prohibiting the transport of bikes during one of the busiest months is very lucrative.
  • + 3
 @jasminov: All I'm saying is, either market and provide -or- if you can't provide then don't market.

I don't choose a side, I'm both citizen and mountainbiker. This is not squaring the circle, there are solutions but neither for free nor unintrusive. I hope a beneficial one is found.
  • - 1
 @jmjr: "A single biker takes up as much space as 4-5 tourists, so do the math who they prefer..."
that's some strange preference don't you think - they don't mind anyone except DH+FF helmet.. )))
  • + 2
 @mattwragg: There's more details shared on various news outlets around. In this case, and in my opinion, ultimately the mountain biker was at fault.

Whatever we do, there will be idiots. So in a way, a certain margin of incidents should be accepted.
What do I cry when it is an unfair treatment however? There are incidents with skiers every season, be it rude locals or drunk tourists or on powder days when there are 200 freeridres wanting to go up - there have been violent outbursts resulting hospital visits.

Skiing however is not only accepted, it's part of the culture and therefore those accidents are blamed on people being idiots and not on people being skiers. Because the sport being practiced is irrelevant.

Fact is, Bike City Innsbruck needs to have more trails. Now it has 3, two of which overlap and the 3rd is the Nordkette Singletrail.
  • + 0
 @Evolution13: "I hope a beneficial one is found."
let's imagine that ban is permanent. If there will no appear of any commercial shuttles/vans/.. - I guess they were right about mtbers and bikecity Innsbruck doesn't need them .. )
  • + 1
 @jasminov: The information is wrong, the Nordkettenbahn is transporting no mountainbikers, except from people living there.
"Anwohnern und Pendlern ist es weiterhin gestattet, das Fahrrad mit in die Hungerburgbahn zu nehmen." (Nordkettenbahnen facebook page)
  • + 3
 @jasminov: It's not strange at all. @jmjr has a point. Most people taking the bahn up are those riding the Nordkette Singletrail (a hardcore downhill track).

Those riding Arzler trail (an easier, more flowy trail) need to bike up (some go up with the bahn and ride down to the beginning of the Arzler trail, this however is not officially allowed)

The Singletrail crown are downhillers with full gear, the Arzler alm are more trail/enduro riders.

So, it's not only not strange, it's quite a logical way to filter people.
  • + 2
 @Evolution13: that’s the basic theory, but that rule has been broken.... it’s really sad, the money in advertising and dumb statements (“like it Bike it”) Bike City IBK and the list goes on... it’s really frustrating. Everyone sits around arguing on the Internet instead of picking up a shovel and building a line, protesting at HBG bahn or starting a mtb club to have a bigger voice in the community. If this was France, cars would be burnt!
  • + 2
 @joeyjumpthetree: I'm up for it. Guess tecnically there is already a mtb club but we could use a bigger one. Maybe we can lend some yellow vests from our friendly neighbors.
  • + 2
 @jmjr: yeah, in addition to the 36,5€ for the ride, the indian and russian rich tourists spend over 100€ to eat in the restaurant at the seegrube (you would be surprise how little they eat from the 3 dishes they order though). And tourists bring way less mud inside the lift...

It's really not a surprise that the lift operator/company prefers to give the space to tourists than to mountainbikers.
  • - 2
 @joeyjumpthetree: "dumb statements (“like it Bike it”) Bike City IBK"
Isn't it about urban riding? I mean, as an example, Holland, Denmark,.. - they all have such-kinda statements everywhere, but it's always about urban life style.. You know, singlespeed pink bike with basket and young tender nice girl in summer dress.. ))
In every town on planet where that statement exists - first of all it means urban.
  • - 2
 @joeyjumpthetree: "cars would be burnt"
do you have a car? ))
  • + 1
 @joeyjumpthetree: Believe me, you don't want our french whinny mentality to add up to the austrian traditional (and a tad lazy) mentality. There would be not way to get shit done
  • + 3
 @Evolution13: there are bike clubs, but they are to scattered to have one unified voice to speak with authorities. And, while they are all busy trying to find their balls, the summer flies by.... the bike club should be suing the IVB and the NKB. There is legitimate legal ground to do so.
  • + 4
 @Evolution13: I think we should gather bikers together to stand in the HBG station and fill up all the space, therefore not allowing normal operations to take place.

You have to be proactive to get anything done. You’ll never receive anything if you don’t ask, and I don’t see anyone taking any real action. Sure, it would piss some people off, but would be a gesture from our side that action needs to be taken and we are serious about riding bikes.

Til then, we will continue to be b**chslapped around by the authorities/shotcallers.

There have been attempts to speak w authorities, but they are politely declined (schau mal) and nothing ever changes....
  • + 3
 No. It’s not about urban riding. @jasminov:
  • + 1
 @joeyjumpthetree: You know that Nordkettenbahnen are a private company and don't have to transport bikes in the first place? What should it change? You will get Hausverbot like the one guy hitting the staff member...
  • + 2
 @jasminov: urban riding is actually a perfect example. In Denmark and Holland, there are a lot of bike commuters. Then they developed bike lanes, signals and other infrastructure improvements to accommodate the number of bikers. In Austria, they have another solution, apparently....
  • - 1
 @joeyjumpthetree: "Then they developed bike lanes, signals and other infrastructure improvements to accommodate the number of bikers. In Austria, they have another solution, apparently...."
You mixed it up.
First you said - thankfully to all those bike commuters bike lanes and other stuff appeared. Then you point only at authorities (Insbruck) who has another solution.

I guess, right way to develop is - LOCAL mtbers should represent themself more active (in any civilized way, not just burning cars and marshing next to authorities buildings, that's just wasting of time )) ) and step-by-step building relations with authorities. And that is the ONLY way, cause any other will lead to nowhere. None of serios people takes care about whining and complaining in some social media, especially when it's about some small town and some globaly unimportant issue. Right?
  • + 7
 No! The transport provider is definitely the one to blame here.

It must be some kind of collective masochism, that bikers always put the blame on themselves. Nothing wrong with using instances like this as a reminder to check your own behavior.

But in a climate, where a single incident get‘s treated in a way like this, bikers will never be „good enough“ and the powers that be obviously were just on the lookout for a reason.

When the first city bans cars, because one car driver behaved stupidly, I‘ll probably change my mind, but until then I don‘t think, bikers should always walk on tiptoes, in the (false) hope that then they might, just maybe, please! be allowed the same access to trails as everybody else...
  • + 1
 @jmjr: pretty sure that’s not true. As far as I know, just like the other local ski areas, they are owned/funded mostly by the City of Innsbruck. Not a private company.
  • + 1
 @joeyjumpthetree: Ah, you are right, but the operating company is private so the contract between them and the city will dictate what they can do.
  • + 3
 @jasminov: " 'cars would be burnt'
do you have a car? )) "
Do you have a life? Wink I assume you're trying to make some sort of worthwhile point, but it's often hard to tell what is... You're mostly coming off as an insulting troll.
  • + 1
 @joeyjumpthetree: Let me know if you do that, I would come over and loiter around to get a point made Wink
  • + 0
 @mtbikeaddict: ????????????????????????
  • + 2
 Think I’ll stick to riding in Italy where the walkers will give a round of applause if you make it down something they are struggling to walk up! This certainly seems a complex situation and a real shame, could do worse than take @mattwragg advice and try not be a dick
  • + 3
 Seems like we are missing about 75 percent of the story here. None of the bits of information provided seem to connect or make any sense.
  • + 8
 Yes, typos and info missing. The trail that this guy attempted to access is probably not opened as there is still snow in the upper part. Normally it opens in late May or in June. The cable car workers essentially decide who gets in and who has to wait 15 min for the next cable car.

About the bus. Some bus have racks at the back that can receive up to 4-5 bikes. The racks are high and unfit riders, short riders or e bikes riders always struggle for 5 min before to manage to put their bikes on the racks. Bus drivers have been complaining about this for a while. The bus that don't have racks are the back state that bikes are not allowed inside during the peak periods and it is never respected by anyone and never enforced.
On the other hand, bus drivers have more respect for rats crossing the streets than cyclists pedaling on the bike lane.

Innsbruck/tirol economy is based on tourism so tourism officials want to build gondolas, ski resorts and trail on every single inch of mountain, but the land owners and many of the politics are close minded traditionalists that are against all this even though they benefit from it. Pretty much nobody has a reasonable "in between" opinion, because being reasonable does not make you elected or respected over here.
  • + 3
 @zede: that's a good way to sum it up.

Also, don't forget even without lifts mountain bikers are destroying the forests and hiking path...the industries cutting down trees leaving wide deforested areas prone to avalanches that further destroy the forest...don't.

So it's also about turning a blind eye, because mountain bikers are a small portion, bring less revenue than other groups.
  • + 1
 @Milko3D: good notion.... but I’d say MTB DOES bring money.... when done correctly. That’s the problem here... not done right.
  • + 4
 Has anybody made a Downfall video about this yet? "Hitler wants to ride the Hungerberg".
  • + 3
 solution: build massive jump in front of Thomas Schroll's house. next send all five hundred riders over there to jump over his roof each day until the transit is reopened.
  • + 1
 A good community would know not only how to embrace this but to make it bring more revenue to the area.

Dear black sheep: get removable chin bars and "superenduro bikes" and tell the authorities to lick your sweaty Austrian nuts! Skiers and bikers will always win, we will just find new ways to access the mountain. There is no way to stop this....embrace it!
  • + 5
 Why am I wondering that Austria has no top 5 results in wc racing???
  • + 1
 So then anyone who is in danger to your staff is the issue not the entire category of riders that they DO NOT REPRESENT dumbasses. So then if a little old lady kicks you in the foot on her way off the trolley you'll ban all the old ladies right? FFS
  • + 3
 Fake news, that's merely a cunning plan by the e-bike industry to generate more sales.
  • + 4
 Austria dares to promote mtb and constantly fcks mtbers
  • + 1
 Yes, maybe we can give all downhillers something distint, like a yellow star on the chest or something so you can recognise them easily. That would be better for all our safety i think....
  • + 1
 That's an idea! Every category should wear like an uniform with horizontal stripe and a distinctive sign on it, like a yellow star, a red ora green or blue or purple triangle and so on. Austrians used to love that some years ago.
  • + 3
 Crankworks & ban of dual crown bikes in the same city...now i've seen it all.
  • + 1
 No worries it's time to reveal the the new cannondale Lefty DH! After having two shocks the 200mm lefty finally drops of in Innsbruck Austria. #Bikecityinnsbruck
  • + 2
 A lefty looks to similar to a double crown downhill fork -> forbidden Big Grin
  • + 3
 ”Bike City Innsbruck”

Yeah. Right.
  • + 4
 #bikeshittyinnsbruck
  • + 2
 #buildthewall!!!

Wait...what were we talking about? I just came in automatically ready to be offended
  • + 4
 #DownhillRidesMatter
  • + 3
 ENDURO WILL NOT BE SUPRESSED!
  • + 3
 Fuck1ng pissed up Aussies no doubt, Can't take us anywhere.
  • + 1
 My first thought too.
  • + 3
 29er still ride for free 26 triples are dead
  • + 2
 Damn, downhillers' are going to have to ride 6km to get to the trail. Imagine the pain and suffering.
  • + 7
 @dthomp325 It's only 6,250ft/1900m vertical, that's nothing on a DH bike, right? Wink
  • + 1
 Let's build DH tracks and then not allow riders to use lift access. Looks like an Italian fuckup.
  • + 3
 Nords got robbed!
  • + 2
 Anyone else hungry for a burger after reading that?
  • + 1
 What if your boxxer is lowered to 180 and you climb with it...but that crown, strictly forbidden!
  • + 2
 What if you have an old Specialized Enduro with the Specialized Double Crown?
  • + 2
 You guys will hate that, but ebikes seem to be the answer!
  • + 1
 As the article said, what if you've got a full face but ride a hardtail, xc, etc...
  • + 2
 Sounds like we need the Hungerburg Games to sort it out.
  • + 2
 And what if you have a dual crown lefty on your XC bike ?
  • + 7
 @AAAAAHHH then you go home and think about your life choices
  • + 1
 Really guys? Its bad enough for hooligans to misbehave, but come on: not we mountainbikers?
  • + 1
 Hey! who you calling a Hooligan Razz No but seriously don't shit in your own backyard if you have a problem with staff try and work it out with management.
  • + 2
 @DownHooligan: Hey! I think this fella has a problem with hooligans!
  • + 1
 @Hardtailhooligan: Hahaha. I sometimes behave also like a hooligan......but you know what I mean!
  • + 1
 @wittereus: Absolutely lol, I’m not out there punching bus/taxi/Uber drivers. Actually I’m very very rarely punching anyone to be honest
  • + 1
 What about Crankworx coming up?
  • + 1
 It appears there may be a Shadow Over Innsbruck.
  • + 1
 It's the shadow of the spectre that is haunting Europe.
  • + 1
 Don't shit in your supper dish.
  • + 1
 Time to bust out the enduro bikes and removable chinstrap helmets!
  • + 1
 Bring on the downhill Brompton!
  • + 1
 So put your helmet inside a back pack.
  • + 1
 .... What about Freeride Bikes?
  • + 1
 Its time to:
Enduuuroooooo
  • + 1
 Uff,, finally some good news..
  • + 1
 Time to invest in a helmet rental business
  • + 1
 Country?
  • - 1
 Lots of other places to ride in Austria
  • + 3
 @snowboardernh around Innsbruck? List them, please
  • + 1
 @Milko3D: Sölden, SFL
  • + 2
 @Walfersama: both are about 100km away, not exactly around Innsbruck, is it.
Plus no direct transport, you'd have to change trains and buses.
  • + 1
 Those are Bikeparks, with opening times June-October. What about the rest of the year? @Walfersama:
  • + 1
 @Milko3D: yeah but for an American (or a German to a lesser extent) 100km is not a lot. It's not uncommon for people over there to drive 3h to go to the bike park/ski resort and 3h to come back within the same day. Different mentality
  • + 1
 @zede: Different mentality, indeed.

Anyway, I know what he meant, you know what I mean and so on...
  • + 1
 That new stop on the EWS last year? petzen-jamnica?
  • + 2
 @mtbikeaddict: that’s like 6 hrs from IBK. It’s ok.... nothing I’d drive 6 hrs for
  • + 0
 Lift or public transport
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