Aaron Gwin Comments on Injured Ankle, Broken Cranks, & More

May 23, 2019
by Daniel Sapp  
Aaron Gwin looked comfortable on track and as always played practice pretty cool not wanting to draw too much attention.

Aaron Gwin didn't line up for his race run at the Mountain Creek Pro GRT this past weekend, due to an injury that was sustained after snapping his crankarm during a hard landing. To get the full story, I checked in with Aaron and his mechanic, John Hall.


Aaron, how is your ankle? Do you have any other injuries than the ankle?


Aaron: It's just the ankle and it's actually doing really good so far with the few days I've had to recover. John and I flew home a day early from the race on Sunday so I could get straight into my doctor’s office Monday morning for x-rays etc. Everything checked out ok and it just looks like a bad sprain.


Are you able to ride at all right now?


Aaron: I haven't ridden my downhill bike yet but I did do some intervals on the spin bike this afternoon (Tuesday) and things were feeling good. I'm still kinda shocked that it's progressing so fast, it was looking and feeling pretty rough a few days ago.


What does your recovery time to be riding and then riding at full strength look like?


Aaron: It's hard to say exactly at this point, I'm just taking it day by day and doing everything I can to get it strong again. I'm hoping to do some very light riding this weekend and will fly to Ft William on Monday. Right now the plan is to race and I really think I'll be able to. If I can't, I want to be there to support my team either way but I think I'll be good to go.



How are you feeling otherwise? Good spirits?


Aaron: Besides the injury I feel great. John and I have put a lot of bike time in since Maribor and we've made some good progress for sure. We've had some solid weeks and I've definitely been excited to get back to the races. This injury was pretty tough mentally at first, not knowing the extent of it. I think as a racer, injuries are always such a bummer when they first happen because there’s nothing you can do about it at that point and you just want to be back on the bike as soon as possible. Once I got home and had it checked out though that definitely lifted my spirits a bit and I've just been focused ahead on getting better.


What exactly happened this past weekend with the bike? What were the factors that led to what happened?


John: We basically just broke a set of cranks. Straight up, those cranks were simply an old version and shouldn’t have been on his bike. Responsibility and fault for that lay entirely on me. That’s the thing with responsibility, its great when things go right but you also have to accept it when things go wrong. We don’t shift blame and we own up to our mistakes on our team. I pride myself on my integrity and ability to face the music good or bad. This is one of those times for me.

E-thirteen had a conversation with me a little over a year ago about not running that version of cranks anymore due to inconsistencies they were seeing and I got rid of them as instructed. For some reason, there was one pair left in my garage that we had kicking around and I used them to build up the first M29 Aaron rode from Intense early on and never thought to put the new style cranks on once we received them. I knew they were an old style crank when I installed them by looking at them but it never crossed my mind that they were the cranks I was supposed to get rid of because it had been some time since that conversation with E-thirteen. It was definitely not my intention to run cranks that we weren’t supposed to, but again, that's on me and I should have been more on top it than I was. It was just a bummer and not a proper representation of the high quality of the current E-thirteen product. The last thing I want is for Aaron or any rider to doubt their equipment and I understand the importance of that first hand across all fronts.

Aaron: I think John pretty much answered everything. It was just a slight mistake that ended up costing us. These things happen in bike racing and life in general. John knows that I’ve made my fair share of mistakes too. I trust him completely, it’s unfortunate but we’re just stoked it didn’t end up worse and we can get back to racing real soon.

It looks like that is a pretty harsh hit on the landing from photos and video we've seen, that has to take a toll on any product, right?


John: It was a pretty big hit and there was a big hole in the landing as well that caught out a few other riders and even claimed a few other competitors' cranks from what I’ve heard. We had data acquisition on the bike for suspension purposes and the numbers seen after that information was downloaded confirmed that the hit produced a number seen very rarely. That kind of hit that you would never tune your suspension for because it's so harsh and rare. I only know of one other time in the testing that they’ve done with other athletes that that number has been achieved. The video I saw doesn’t look as hard as it was.

Aaron: Ya it was a big hit for sure. As soon as I left the take off I thought, “this one's gonna hurt a bit”. Gave it a little too much juice coming in. Haha, I wasn’t the only rider to break cranks off that thing, it was a pretty beastly impact if you went deep.


Intense IFR
Gwin and Hall are a formidable duo on the World Cup circuit.


Is it normal to have non-race ready product, or old product still around?


John: I think Aaron and I are often at the forefront of a lot of product development with almost every one of our sponsors. A role that both of us quite enjoy and love the challenge of. So what a lot of people don’t realize when teams and riders do testing and product development is that we and the brands don’t have an unlimited supply of whatever we want, whenever we want it. There are a lot of factors to consider. Like availability of the prototype product, how many are available in the prototype stage, at what stage in development is it in, availability of materials, manufacturing times and windows, running changes being made, when will production parts be available to have enough for the team and spares and many more factors all determine what and when something is on the bike. Sometimes we only have one of something and you're left with taking that one part with you all over the world and installing it on the race bike or practice bike at home trying to keep a level of consistency for your rider.

With that in mind, you try to keep as much stuff around that’s still ridable and safe for a potential test build or if it comes up that we need multiple bikes to do back to back testing. Instead of constantly asking for new parts, being wasteful or over ordering at the beginning of the year in anticipation of projects ahead, we try to use stuff we already have. That way when a new part comes out in production you’re not stuck with a bunch of old product thats still usable, just not the newest of the new. Basically its not always possible to have multiple bikes built up with the newest stuff or have enough prototype parts to be able to have them on all race and practice bikes so sometimes that's why we’ll have a previous version of a part on there to keep us rolling until enough of the production parts are available to install.

It’s incredibly rare that any of these parts are defective and if they are we try to do everything we can to make sure they don’t get mixed in. Whether thats sending them back to the manufacture or destroying them. In this situation that didn’t happen and it cost us.

Do you have any concerns with the integrity of any of the products you're using?


John: Absolutely not. We’ve always had trust in our sponsors and the products they provide for us.

Aaron: If I ever had any real concerns, we wouldn’t run the product, it’s just not worth the risk. Bike parts aren’t perfect though so there is always the possibility that something crazy can happen but as a racer or casual rider, you accept that before you get on the bike. We definitely take a lot of pride in the integrity of the products that are produced and I think that’s shown through the warranty programs and customer service that E-thirteen provides as well.


You all probably test quite a lot of different set ups, new parts, prototype parts, etc. Is it ever a concern that things will break and injuries occur because of it while testing? Or are most products that a brand sends out typically good to go? At your level of riding, is there a concern that you are the end point in product development? Being that, if a product is good enough for you then it's good enough for anyone.


John: Sure, that possibility can be present with anything related to testing a new product or some variation of a prototype. It’s not in anyone's best interest to try something that has the potential to break while testing though. When something gets handed over to us it has been machine tested extensively and just needs to run through real world scenarios and small tweaks made before production.

As for it being a concern that we’re the end point in product development? There’s no concern there for me. We’re usually not the only ones testing or running something through its paces. Parts are usually dispersed amongst a number of teams and riders as well as your average level riders to ensure that it has been put through anything and everything possible. That way when it gets to you, the end consumer, you have the best possible version of whatever it is you spend your hard earned dollar on.


Is there anything else you want to add?


John: Like Aaron’s said before, a big part of a relationship like ours involves trust and the ability to own up to your mistakes, not pass the blame, represent the truth and move on. That's exactly what we’re doing. As for E-thirteen, their product has been ridiculously good for us over the years and they continually work on improving it for us and have done nothing but support us above and beyond.

Also, I know some people thought Aaron “threw me under the bus” when discussing this himself earlier in the week. That’s the furthest thing from the truth and people thinking that clearly don’t know the whole scope or reality of the situation. We’re going on our 6th season working together and over that time have built a level of trust and friendship that’s not shaken by things like this.

Aaron: So often people are afraid to just tell the truth but to us, it’s important that people know the truth about these situations and we want to be honest with the public about whatever’s going on. John’s been with me through some of my best and worst times as a racer. He’s also been there for me as a friend through all the difficult circumstances and transitions I’ve made over the last few years. We've got each other’s backs and I'm thankful every day to have his help and friendship. We're all going to make human errors at various points in our lives and that’s just part of the growing process. There’s nobody else I’d rather be working with and I’m just looking forward to chasing these goals that we have together for as long as we can.


MENTIONS: @intensecyclesusa / @aarongwin1




237 Comments

  • + 175
 Kudos for what we should assume is the open and honest information. We don't really have a "right" to this info so for folks to be pissed and calling it a lie is pretty damn bold. Be thankful we get this type of follow-up. I'm sure if Aaron was truly concerned about E13 components risking his health they would quietly switch brands. No paycheck would be worth losing races and hurting yourself when there are simple alternatives...that's a no-brainer.
  • + 67
 The problem is that Gwin's initial response to Vital when they posted the video was so terrible, blamed Vital for posting the vid. and immediately threw his mech. under the bus. Even if your mechanic screws up, and in this case, Gwin is as much to blame as John, you never, ever blame them publicly, you just don't.
  • + 1
 @maxyedor: source?
  • + 13
 @hamncheez: on Vital's IG
  • + 64
 @hamncheez: Easiest link I could figure out to his reply. ridemonkey.bikemag.com/attachments/4328fbc2-7193-4cf9-9178-9b6b2f0b40ac-jpeg.134464

Everything breaks, other cranks broke in this exact spot, he didn't even need to release a statement. He chose to release a very dumb statement and now has to do these interviews to fix what he should have never screwed up in the first place.
  • + 1
 @maxyedor: got a link?
  • + 16
 @maxyedor: Wait, Ridemonkey is still a thing? I'm having flashbacks
  • + 2
 @endlessblockades: I just had that same thought.
  • - 9
flag skidmarkbro (May 23, 2019 at 8:56) (Below Threshold)
 @maxyedor: Seems like you know a lot about what should and shouldn't be done or said publicly between a factory rider and their factory mechanic. What factory team was it again that you own and ride for??

Gwinn defended his sponsor in a comments section and was pissed at his supposed industry "friends" for only posting the video without any context from him or his mechanic. Seems reasonable to me. Shitty reporting deserves to be blasted with all the click bait bullshit online now days.
  • + 6
 @maxyedor: i just can't believe maxydeor is getting voted down. I guess people don't want to be honest anymore or accept was is right and just.
  • + 22
 @maxyedor: AG must've caught the Sick Bicycles communication bug. Looks like he's recovered now.
  • + 5
 @danielsapp: trying to remember what you might have posted that could come back to haunt you?

Big Grin
  • + 28
 I still feels kinda like John was given some tea, a white kimono and a tanto, and asked to write a poem.
  • + 102
 @skidmarkbro: PR statements are for public consumption, not your fellow pros. You don't have to be a factory rider to know a terrible public statement when you see one. How many other riders do you see immediately running to IG to "defend" their sponsors by blaming their mechanics? None. It rarely ever happens in any form of racing because it's poor form to publicly call out the guys who make everything happen behind the scenes.

Greg Minnaar snapped a frame in half last season and said nothing. SC's response was something along the lines of "Shit happens, that's racing". Admittedly the situation is slightly different in that no blame would have fallen on his mech, but until Gwin blamed his wrench nobody would have suspected a thing. Most of us are smart enough to understand that pros push their gear harder than we could ever dream of, and snapping a crank is no big deal to anybody but the guy who's foot is in jeopardy.

This was the biggest star at the biggest race in the US, you can't expect not to be covered by the media when you're the star. This wasn't a team camp, or even just a day at the park. Yeah, it's annoying that you knew the guy who shot the video, but had he not been friends with the videographer, then what?

Again, this all could have been avoided by simply saying nothing. I like Gwin, he's fast as hell, fun to watch and seems like a genuinely good guy. This was a rare slip-up, but it was still a slip-up and this article doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's him trying to fix a PR gaffe. The OP said we should be thankful for this kind of follow up, my point was that we never would have wanted any follow up had it been handled quietly behind closed doors in the first place, as these things typically are.
  • + 29
 Why should we assume it's open and honest? There are way too many words for that. Should've just said "prototype" and been done. All the bullshit in those paragraphs is really just covering up Gwin being a dick on IG about the video getting posted and talking out his ass about how that bike was built-up.
  • + 6
 @maxyedor: Nailed it.
  • + 24
 @maxyedor: maybe its just a glimpse of the true gwin?
  • + 5
 @maxyedor: don’t tell em about ridemonkey
  • + 48
 @maxyedor: Well said, sir. I honestly can’t believe Gwin expected VitalMTB not to post a video titled “ankle tweaker”. No where did it say anything negative about Gwin, the product, or even which brand was involved. Then to call them out over views? This coming from a guy with an Instagram account and video series is about as hypocritical as it gets. This whole situation smacks of a whiney, privileged person. Can’t say I was ever much of a fan of Gwin’s ‘too cool for school’ surfer attitude. This cements it.
  • + 3
 @maxyedor: Link to the video?
  • + 41
 I take Gwin and Hall on their word. You guys are a bunch of drama queens..

I'm glad the ankle is not broken..

P"
  • - 8
flag skidmarkbro (May 23, 2019 at 11:14) (Below Threshold)
 @cwatt: Jealousy isn't a good look for you.
  • - 8
flag skidmarkbro (May 23, 2019 at 11:17) (Below Threshold)
 @just6979: How is Gwinn being a dick on IG? By defending his sponsor that pays him WAAAAAAY more than Vital ever has? By saying his mechanic made a mistake and that John took accountability for it?
  • + 19
 @cwatt: Totally agree.
But for the love of God, can we all stop with the "privileged" bullshit line?
We're all reading this on our goddamn phones.We're all privileged if we dont have to whore our our offspring to buy food.
  • + 3
 @tacklingdummy: cheers mate and ouch.
  • + 8
 @skidmarkbro: I meant saying vital was wrong for posting it. They didn't make any commentary about the product breaking, just posted a vid. Maybe some in the comments, but Gwin should know better than respond to comments like that.
  • + 1
 @dobermon: nailed it bro.
  • + 10
 @maxyedor: People and organizations are allowed to not handle ever single thing perfectly.
  • + 17
 I feel like i need to give my old Zee cranks a hug.
  • + 5
 @Muckal: ...ikr..alloy for life!
  • + 1
 @cwatt: Exactly! Smile
  • + 6
 @maxyedor: I've had similar sprains and expecting someone to tiptoe through the tulips while being frustrated and in a lot of pain is totally unreasonable.

Stick to the armchair QB'ing.
  • + 0
 @maxyedor: True, but there's no middleman (Martin Whitley) for PR statements anymore. AG is his own boss, team owner and a racer so cut him a little slack Wink
  • + 9
 Totally overcooked interview! The crank broke, shit happens. They've made a mountain out of a molehill!
  • + 5
 @skidmarkbro: did e13 recall the cranks? So they’re safe for joe public? Or not? They failed. He got captured. It happens. He’s made it so much worse by responding. Threw his team under the bus.

Hate this sponsor friendly bullshit. First it was Sick Bikes and now Gwin. Shit happens, it sucks but let’s not pretend context impacts the final answer.
  • + 7
 no one gave a rats ass about why this happened to the crank or whatever till he himself made it become an issue which he then wanted to publilcy fix, which only made it worse. This is the most unnecessary PR blow up over literally nothing. But at least everyone gets content out of it...
  • - 3
 @MalleCommencal: amateurish
  • + 1
 Saint cranks might bend but they won't break.
  • + 2
 @maxyedor: If only Gwin would have had 'Captain Hindsight' to look after him before he makes mistakes ....Damn you Hindsight...Damn you!!!
  • + 1
 @Monkeyass: you conspiranoic haha
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: this is the story for sure
  • + 3
 @MalleCommencal: Every armchair expert was blowing up the insta video immediately about e13 cranks being shit!! That is why Gwin responded on the insta feed, to give context and protect his sponsors product from getting undue bad press because his mechanic forgot to throw out a bad set of prototype cranks that never made it to the public.
  • - 2
 @maxyedor: He wasn't throwing his merch under the bus, he was defending it. He is saying that vital posting that will give ethirteen a bad rep and the new cranks are way stronger. But it is weird he got so but hurt about them posting it becasue thats just the way things go nowadays with social media.
  • + 1
 @maxyedor: he was pist alright. Thanks for the link
  • + 3
 @Muckal: man for not being the top of the line crankset I absolutely love my zee cranks! I’m sure saint’s are great I haven’t heard anything bad about them but I’ve never had a single issue with my zee’s
  • + 3
 @maxyedor: I read Arron´s comment and he did not blame John. He just stated that John made a mistake putting on the old style cranks. To me it was nothing different to what was said in the interview.
  • + 2
 sounds like some huge BS, have you seen Jons toolbox? Thing is neater and cleaner than the race bike. Jon wouldn't just throw on some crappy cranks, E13 just can't keep up with Aarons riding lmao tires suck too
  • + 76
 Hahaha, the excuse is great, 'old style cranks' hahaha utter bullshit, surprised he didn't say they were prototypes. Dog ate my home work.
  • - 10
flag chriskneeland (May 23, 2019 at 7:05) (Below Threshold)
 There will be people in this comment section that will eat up that hot, steaming pile of bullshit.
  • + 43
 believe whatever you want, pros break equipment all the time.. not really sure why this particular instance needed a full page article that amounts to "sorry i f*cked up"
  • + 54
 @laxguy: Because they have to protect their sponsor. And John was willing to be the casualty. So where is this announcement from e13 to immediately throw away these faulty cranks for the rest of us who are on them?
  • + 47
 @laxguy: It is more a bit of insight into how things work. There was a lot of speculation on social media and another website without a lot of reporting. With Aaron being one of the top racers in the world, it is newsworthy and we wanted to get the story right. He and John wanted to go a little more into the product side of things as we were talking so we did and that's it. We're just trying to share the information we have been given.
  • + 37
 @chriskneeland: youre missing the point -- there is no story here. something broke, it got replaced. i promise you are not running the same cranks as Aaron Gwin and you are not taking the same hits as him either. your cranks are fine, go outside and do something fun
  • - 15
flag laxguy (May 23, 2019 at 7:13) (Below Threshold)
 @danielsapp: thats cool man, idc run the story if you want, gotta keep the hypebeast moving
  • + 41
 @laxguy: The story was: e13 cranks break under the worlds best downhill racer. The story just became: A) Gwin and team protect e13 by offering up bullshit excuse, or B) e13 tipped off Gwin's team about faulty cranks but never told their consumers to stop riding them.
  • + 2
 meh. they did an ok job with accountability and protecting their sponsor, but I call bullshit on all these other dudes breaking "competitors" cranks in the same spot, unless someone else confirms it...
  • + 25
 @danielsapp: If we're talking reporting, I think you should note that VitalMTB posted a video of AG breaking the crank and injuring his ankle. I would say that's 1) newsworthy and 2) solid race reporting... AG getting injured is definitely something fans want to know. Personally, I am bummed he is hurt because I think the top-end of the WC is in for some great competition this year and AG being healthy and in the mix only makes that more fun for all of us watching on Sunday.

The whole reason for this blowing up is the drama around a part breaking and the discussion of that on social media by fans and AG himself. He's a top 5 racer, I think any reasonable person knows they break stuff pushing the envelope.

Glad to hear the ankle is healing up!!
  • + 3
 @chriskneeland: It's a conspiracy!
  • + 12
 @danielsapp: who came up with the questions you or Gwinn? who reached out to who about this incident ?
this seems like Gwinn's way of getting back with Vitalmtb because they didn't removed the post when he asked them to...
the crank breaking wouldn't have been an issue until he made it one with the way he is handling the media.
  • - 1
 @eeeasy: take it easy guy, what are you getting all worked yo about?
  • + 9
 @eeeasy: I came up with the questions and reached out to Gwin to see how he was healing up.
  • + 3
 @eeeasy: Yea you have to just own shit like this and not try to hide it. Once the video is out just deal with it, don't complain and try to get it taken down or hide it.
  • + 5
 Older E-13 Carbon cranks have been breaking. 2 riders, 2 pair at Angel Fire last year. They sent out new ones but not worth the pain. See@laxguy:
  • + 3
 exacltly "Our old cranks were a bad design and not safe to ride, but our new model (which looks the same) is bulletproof" hmmmmmm.
  • + 3
 Please explain me why would AG need to get prototype cranks from E13? I mean, those are just f*ng cranks, and this is DH. It's not brakes, it's not mechs, just cranks. So if they wanted an E13 logo on AG cranks, they should just put any f*kng production E13 crank and voila! So either they did not have any DH-worthy crank or this is a total BS ...
  • + 4
 @dhx42: 100% agreed. But that would be logical & devoid of emotion & drama, so the internet can't comprehend.

I've snapped everything on a bike in my time riding & some of it has come at piece of cake times with no logic to why it blows. Other things have refused to ever die or quit on me & yet crumple under others.

It's as if we're taking rubber and alloy and smashing them into random things constantly all day every day or something???

Oh wait...we are.
  • + 6
 @chriskneeland: I’ve seen a ton of RF and SRAM cranks break too. No company is immune. The XO1 cranks snapped all the time when they were released. Shit happens. Also, pro riders ride prototype shit all the time. Ever heard of SRAM Blackbox? Just relax and ride your bike.
  • + 2
 @cobo: So have a bunch of XO1 DH and SIXC. Happens to all brands from time to time. Hopefully they improve shit and make products better.
  • + 4
 @lkubica: SRAM had blackbox cranks a while ago too. Pro riders ride prototype shit all the time. This isn’t a conspiracy
  • + 0
 @chriskneeland: Must be nice to be permanently enlightened
  • + 0
 @simooo: Beats being willfully ignorant.
  • + 3
 “Your bike has shipped”, said Sick
  • + 5
 @bigburd this whole post needs translating:
E-13: "We released a product into the public that wasn't up to scratch due to either it hadn't been engineered and tested properly, or we didn't oversee and check manufacture and quality control with our oversees manufacturer correctly. Upon realising this product was failing, we re-engineered it and released the revised 'fixed' version to the public under the guise of it just being an incrementally updated new model year product, this avoided us having to do a product recall and/or face bad press for a faulty product - then we just hoped the problem would fade away in the background and we could gradually warranty all the old defective product as and when they failed."

Gwin: 'Snaps old model crank'

E-13: "People will automatically assume that our top sponsored pro and one of the most winningest riders of all time will be riding our new crank that we just fixed, we can't have this - get Gwin and John to do some social media damage control and lets blame John, after all, no one gives a f@rk about some mechanic and the problem will just fade away again."

People: 'Oh no you don't! - where's the recall? where's my refund? how do I know my crank isn't going to explode? Your products are shite!'.

Me: Don't worry E-13, time heals all all wounds :-p
  • + 4
 Haha i wet myself .. dog ate my homework hahahaha ...
  • + 0
 @cobo: I remember seeing cranks break at least once a race in last years WC feed, suspected something was up back then...hmm..
  • - 1
 @ctd07: Dumbest post yet. Every WC rider breaks shit from time to time. This was blown waaay out of proportion. If a WC rider breaks something once the product is total shit for public consumption and the company didn’t test it properly? Sponsored riders ride pre production shit all the time. Give your head a shake. That’s not how shit works. Also E13 didn’t blame anyone. Gwin was just trying to tell the story of what happened, and could have initially handled it better for sure. Lest we forget Gwin won the overall on those cranks 2 years ago. Move on and ride your bike.
  • + 1
 @covekid: Sorry, but ctd07 hit the nail on the head.
  • + 6
 @covekid: I tend to agree with you but the explanation they gave makes it tough. I get that WC riders are hard on shit, but the point of sponsoring these riders is so companies can show that their products can hold up under the harshest conditions, meaning we all can feel safe buying them. So when something fails like that what is the explanation? 1) the products can't in fact hold up to that level 2) the product was defective.

This is where its gets tough for me. They went the route of defective product, which is fine, it happens. But if there was an "old version" of the cranks that E13 was telling their riders not to use, meaning it was a known issue, why weren't they letting everyone else who owns the cranks know about this?
  • + 36
 Accountability and responsibility! Props to John.
It’s a rarity these days that people take responsibility these days for mistakes and or oversights.
As for E-13, i have never ridden any of their components and I certainly dont ride hard enough anymore to brake anything more than a wheel these days, but i do know of a few people who have had some problems with their components.
  • + 2
 Agree, Kudos for Aaron and John for the candid interview. That said, my friend broke a set of Carbon e13 carbon DH cranks first run at Whistler on a turn on lower A-line. I have had a set of SixC's for multiple seasons, multiple Whistler trips, bike park laps in Colorado, races, etc....zero issue. Several other folks I know have issue with e13. Maybe that was the 'older stuff' or whatever. e13 the only thing I trust of theirs is chain guides
  • + 2
 @bman33: I’ve has the opposite experience. I’ve been on 2 sets over a year with no issues and I have broken SRAM and RF Carbon cranks in well under a year. Companies improve stuff all the time. As long as you’re taken care of in warranty when something does happen it’s all good. The new cranks they just released (reviewed on PB a few weeks ago) come with a 5 year warranty so sound like they are confident in them lasting along time.
  • + 5
 @covekid: Wtf how do you break cranks so often?
  • + 1
 @rezrov: Early cranks I guess. Google broken Sram carbon cranks. It was fairly common! Also broke Next SL which was also a very common issue...I've heard the SRAM cranks are way better now, and RF just launched new Next SL's which hopefully solve the issue with those. I'm just saying it seems to be common for every carbon manufacturer to have issues at one time or another. They learn from real world experience and move on and make shit better...
  • + 6
 @covekid: But why keep buying carbon cranks if they kept breaking?... Or did you also have this problem with alloy? The weight savings are pretty insignificant and they're at the last place on the entire bike you need to shave grams.
  • + 3
 @rezrov: lol, I've never run carbon cranks cause I don't trust them. Where is the brain in these people who have broken them and then buy them again?
  • + 1
 @Flowcheckers: "I've never run carbon ____ cause I don't trust them". Insert your own phobia here. Mine: "handlebars", "rims", "frame"... I'm not interested in going around a velodrome.
  • + 2
 @BenPea: Just carbon bars and cranks, they are the most likely to lead to injury when broke. Maybe seatpost too!???? I just bought some cheap Chinese carbon rims.
  • + 2
 @Flowcheckers: A carbon saddle can lead to very, very horrific injury. I'd guess rims would be fine because even if they failed there's a tire and all the spokes to keep the wheel circle shaped.
  • + 32
 The story here is not the cranks, it's how Gwin thinks Vital MTB handled it, and on that front, I think Gwin is out of line.
  • + 3
 Lol...everything is happy and great and gods plan when its all going your way! But when it isn’t....it’s some bros fault....lol.
  • + 6
 @bikebike69: True words!
  • + 3
 Agreed he was out of line. Although after reading the comment I bet he was just heated and too quick to post it without taking some time to cool down and make a thoughtful response. We’ve all been there, but I think Aaron and John aren’t fretting over this at all. They’ve been super tight for a long time.
  • + 27
 Aaron, you admonish Vital for posting to the public the video of your crash, resulting in your ankle injury. Also, you say that you did not want this video to be public. However, you publicly shame your mechanic in a posts for making a "very big mistake, which costs us... Strongly criticizing and admonishing at the same time claiming your mechanic rarely makes mistakes is shaming your mechanic and is much worse then what vital did to you by posting this crash.
  • + 17
 I found that to be kind of ridiculous. He expects a media outlet to not post the video when one of the top riders in the world breaks a crank and blows up his ankle? I respect that riders and teams don't want everything that happens to be public knowledge, but its the job of sites like Vital and PB to cover these events. To me anything that happens between the tape is more than fair game to post or write about.
  • + 4
 This is Gwin's second significant social media screw up this year. He should just focus on racing, quit being so defensive, and shut up about all sponsor drama.
  • + 23
 Im going to be hated, but damn I just can´t like at all E.13... I know everything breaks, but I have had my fill with that brand.
  • + 6
 the only dropper i have had that has failed faster than a reverb.
  • - 1
 Somehow the alloy e13 wheels I have are maybe the strongest I’ve used
  • + 2
 I've had a lot of luck with them but they definitly are not batting 100%. I've always avoided their cranks prior to this.
  • + 5
 @kleinblake: really? I have not ridden mine a month before i swaped mine. Were to flexy and i was scrubing the tire every time a really pushed while cornering.
They are also none for the hub to go bad with mud
  • + 1
 @tiagomano: I normally blow through wheels but the Trs wheels have held true and durable for about 6 months so far
  • + 4
 @kleinblake: wow, I broke 2 pair of trs+ rims last year, and I had to repeat the rims cause its some of the few I could find with 28H, but I haven´t had good results with their products in many ways.. hope they can improve with the years
  • + 2
 @adrennan: Same with the dropper. I had high hopes and drank the kool-aid. My post developed abnormal play in a couple weeks. By the time I knew it, the loose top cap had allowed the pins to lunch the inner post. Ocean fill.™
  • + 19
 Let me summarize for those of you just getting into this drama:

It appears that e*13 not only failed to recall the "defect crank[] from 3 years ago that should [have] never been on my bike . . . ." but it continues to sell that same gen 3 crank.

I did a search for "crank recall" on the hive. Zero results.

Apparently e*13 gave notice to only 1 customer not to use its defective product? Not buying it.

That poor mechanic. It seems like everyone EXCEPT E*13 is taking responsibility.
  • + 4
 My thoughts exactly, Why did e13 not recall the cranks?
  • + 8
 A recall is done when all products share the same defect. I would assume this is more a case where a batch or a particular version of the crank was seeing more issues than a company would like, so they iterate and make improvements in the design and or manufacturing process to reduce the number of issues in future versions. If they have a newer version that is better, they obviously would tell their #1 racer not to use the old version.

You also don't see recalls for SRAM or RaceFace cranks even though there are tons of reports of those breaking.

That brings me to a broader point with carbon cranks. If you use any of them, you have to accept there is a greater risk of them being compromised (without you knowing) and failing. Cranks take tons of rock strikes. Aluminum cranks don't get compromised when a rock bounces off them. I wonder how many instances of carbon cranks breaking are because a rock hit them and gave them damage that allowed the crank to fail under load? I highly doubt people are inspecting their crank every time a rock hits them.

Cranks are a part where you really have to assess if benefits of carbon are worth it. And accept that even though carbon may be stronger under load, it can be damaged more easily from strikes and then is no longer stronger under load. Also there is human error in the carbon layout process the doesn't exist with alloy. It doesn't matter who makes them... these issues exist.
  • + 0
 It’s likely that Aaron and other sponsored pros were the only ones to ever receive this early batch of cranks while they were being developed.
  • + 1
 Nothing was wrong with the cranks, they just broke like some things do.
  • + 20
 Gwin has no problems mentioning Jesus after winning world championships but can't seem to find his name when bad shit happens cmon buddy can't have it both ways.
  • + 16
 amen
  • + 0
 When bad things happen to the god botherer’s its the devil at work! Thats how the old crank got on the bike, the devil did it
  • + 40
 Does it matter to you? He isn't pushy about his religion, doesn't blame his faults or negative on his religion and doesn't call anyone else out for not being his brand of religion. Would you prefer he 'blame Jesus' for his busted ankle, flat tire or broken crank? If you aren't religious, great. Neither am I but. But snark comments to a person who is, and is NOT a prick about it seems a bit BS and petty.

I will await my downvotes
  • - 4
flag ukr77 (May 23, 2019 at 15:50) (Below Threshold)
 Doesn’t blame his faults or negatives on religious. Sure but goes off half cocked and blames his friend publicly. How is that righteous?@bman33:
  • + 9
 As a Secularist I'd like us all to keep religion out of this sport thanks.
  • + 18
 Isn't it just the case that carbon cranks in general are prone to failure? After a certain amount of rock strikes they are compromised and rendered not strong enough. I go to 4-5 DH races per year in the UK (BDS and Pearce) and the Fort William WC, and always see at least 2-3 broken carbon cranks. By seen, I mean seeing riders walking down pushing bike, holding broken crank in hand. I've only seen one break as it happened, and like with Gwin it was horrible, rider not expecting it, mangled their foot/ankle. Why risk it for a few grams weight saving? Anything I'm missing? I've not seen a modern Ali crank fail, not since the bad old days of square tapers...
  • + 5
 You nailed it!!! Seen the same thing with BMX Carbon Forks!!! Not worth the crash or the cash!!!
  • + 5
 I was skimming through the posts to find someone writing exactly that.

The whole discussion avoids the most important point. The fact that AG acted like an ass is irrelevant. It's just a soap opera.

Carbon is not the wright material for this type of component. They promote it, they sell it, and yet regardless which company is making carbon cranks, they have one common feature: that f*ckin break! Money is money people. They sell you something that simply is there to justify the high price.

Just cope of weeks ago guy we were riding with in Vinschgau snapped his carbon cranks. After like 10 meters of the trail he hit the rock and bam. The day was over for him. 10 other people just had TONS of laughs. But what if that happened a bit later when the trail got serious? :/

Buy metal cranks.
  • + 5
 @goroncy: Cranks and handlebars; The two places on a bike where carbon isn't worth the risk.
  • + 3
 @Flowcheckers: It really isn't. Industry acts here like hardcore a*sholes. I know that money is important. But at what cost? They could do something really good for them and us and come up with a cheaper way of producing titanium cranks.
  • + 17
 Moral of the story - we don't need carbon cranks
  • + 2
 Bingo. The new Hope EVO are looking very good right about now.
  • + 5
 Alloy for life!
  • + 13
 This would be a lot more convincing if nearly every single e13 component I've put on my bike (hubs, droppers, chain guides) hadn't catastrophically malfunctioned multiple times.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times and I probably am getting a paycheck from your company and am OK with being fooled.
  • + 26
 Really? Every e13 component? Catastrophically? Multiple times? Sure you're not exaggerating a little?
  • + 4
 @cliff-huckstable: sounds like he means total malfunction or failure, but he also has a thing for exaggeration
  • + 5
 @cliff-huckstable: oh he's not. And he's not alone. A lot of people in America have issues with e13 and their terrible customer service doesn't help resolve any issues.
  • + 15
 @cliff-huckstable: I've said a million times, don't exaggerate.
  • - 2
 @brunse: Literally?
  • + 11
 @cliff-huckstable: Multiple hubs - gave them multiple chances. And e13 dropper made bad sounds from the get-go and then one day, just decided to fully rotate in any direction. Chain guides, multiple chances, they keep coming apart. No I'm not exaggerating.

Part of it is that e13 has fantastic customer service (at least that's my experience). So whenever I broke something they replaced it. But the replacements broke. And the replacement replacements broke (hubs). At that point I'd rather pay for a quality product than get multiple free products that break. The products I've replaced them with have worked great, and for much longer. e13 has a quality control, or engineering, problem.
  • + 6
 @cliff-huckstable: Then you've never owned an e13 product. Everything e13 I've owned has failed or has an issue. Two models of chainguides, a TRSr wheelset, and two cranksets. I love the look of some of their stuff, and still use a crankset and chainguide, but it's such a pain in the ass to keep having to fix.
  • + 0
 Shitty to hear. I’m on the carbon cranks, cassette and wheels, as are 2 of my buddies and we’ve have great results. No issues. Granted we have had the stuff for a year so maybe there were older quality control issues on some products.
  • + 4
 @foggeloggliod: welll... their customer service is pretty spot on but yes their shit does break... a lot. I'm really sick of fixing my f*cking e13 dropper post lol
  • + 0
 @rhaddad87: I must get their techs on bad days then. Just another worthless mtb brand that glorifies their products with marketing and professionals but not with research and development.
  • - 3
 @chriskneeland: You assume too much. I've had e13 products on my bikes and never had any issues. I haven't had wheels or dropper posts so I can't speak to those. I don't have a dog in the fight, but the original post i replied to smelt like hyperbole.
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: Can't believe you got downvoted on posting one of the greatest quotes of all time. Clearly they severely misunderestimated the humor in that video.
  • + 14
 everything can fail....not any breking news !!!! nothing is perfect!! glad it didn´t caused any worst injury!!! Like 10 years ago I was ridding and my handlebar got broken...that was gnarly!!
  • + 3
 not breking news but breking ankles
  • + 9
 this reads like a re-direct of a lawyer's own witness to convince a wary jury. what a load.
  • + 6
 I tried to like Gwin, honestly. As a South African I'm alway behind Greg Minnaar first, but Gwin's pro ethic and the fact that he also proudly declares he is a Christian as well is admirable. But, whining over a stupid crank, then getting all defensive over it is the total opposite and smells like spoilt brat prima donna sports star attitude.... would rather support an honest beer drinking or weed smoking rider anyday! Just ride your bike! But good like with the ankle and my sympathies to your mechanic, going to be a long year!
  • + 6
 Honestly, I've always like seeing AG succeed as he is a fantastic racer. However, if he gets himself into these situations, e.g. creating unnecessary drama with Vital, then I can do without the drama, negativity and half truths. So, if you are a sponsor you should maybe avoid negativ association with your product, however they come about.
  • + 9
 Remember that time I put the defective cranks on your bike?
  • + 8
 Pro-mountain biker breaks crank shock horror!

I sense it’s been a slow few weeks in the industry.
  • + 14
 What is not talked about here is Gwin's comment on Vital's Insta and it came off as incredibly poor form. Very few people are pissed about the crank itself breaking. They were pissed about how Gwin basically thru Juan under the bus with his choice of words.
  • + 8
 A lot of ruckus over a snapped crank. Aaron panicking like it's some huge catastrophe. Minnaar snapped a frame a while back and people just thought that even best products fails when abused, no biggie!
  • + 8
 @hirvi: Nailed it! Greg just rolled with it and didn't make excuses. gwin instantly started telling sites to take down videos and making up excuses. This would be a nothing story if gwin didn't making it a huge one by trying to hide it.
  • + 2
 @nismo325: Minnaar's situation is hardly the same scenario though. Not only is there a major personality difference between the two but it was never something that Santa Cruz nor Minnaar thought they needed to "defend". Minnaar's bike didn't have a pre-existing quality problem and it broke due to an impact with a wooden pole, not under "normal" racing conditions. No one in their right mind would assume that Minnaar's bike was faulty or problematic due to conditions under how it broke. However, if his bike broke during a relatively normal landing (like Gwin's), it would have most likely been a different story on the interwebz.
  • + 7
 “Rather than speculate, I figured it would be best to help Gwinn and his sponsors do some damage control. How could I turn down an exclusive interview”
  • + 5
 I must give a word in defense of e*13, having already had a couple of strong hits of the bb axle side of the right crank arm of my TRSr cranks against standing rocks with no cracking. Well, no less than that would be expected either. On the other hand, I have managed to rotate one arm of a set of SRAM GX dub cranks against the other. That may even be a failsafe against breaking...
  • + 8
 The Golden Boy is having a bit of a rough ride this year (and last).
  • + 4
 Carbon shouldn't be used on cranks, period. ESPECIALLY on a DH bike. I've watched a friend crack a pedal right out of his Raceface cranks on XC trails, and he's not some brute. Screw the minor weight penalty, run alu and never worry about this stuff.
  • - 2
 Things break, carbon or DH is irrelevant.
  • + 6
 this is what happens larry when you take endorsement money on second-tier equipment.
  • + 5
 Is this your homework Larry? You are entering a world of pain Larry
  • + 3
 I still have a pair of e13's old TRSR aluminum cranks on my bike and have hammered on them for 4+ years and they are great. Have one of their old carbon rear hubs on my DJer and its been good for 4+ years.

However, I did warranty 3 droppers before returning it to the bike store with the fourth post. I have split two of their TRSR aluminum rims down the center of the rim (from eyelet to eyelet).

Despite this, e13's customer service was always on point and more than willing to help me. They will get you a new product to replace your old one if it breaks. They got good products (that they don't make anymore) and shit products. I really like the brand because they have always been so accommodating regarding warranty issues, but not so sure about the quality of their new stuff.
  • + 3
 We'd like to thank Aaron and John for putting themselves out there to tell the story. We stand behind our products not only for elite athletes, but for all riders.

In regard to the safety of TRS and LG1 carbon cranks on everyone else's bikes, rest assured your cranks are safe to ride. You should, on a regular basis, inspect your cranks for damage. If you're unsure, you can always talk to a real human via support@bythehive.com
  • + 2
 Last week i dismounted my SixC cranks, which are stand for one of the best and most expensive carbon cranks. Downhill and carbon cranks are a bad combo. I learned that a few years ago by overshooting the landing of a big table with the sram X0 DH carbon cranks. Luckily i had no injury after that slam. The weight saving on carbon cranks is not worth the risk. I like the atlas alloy cranks from race face, they are lighter than the good old shimano saints but more pretty and obviously also very strong and reliable.
  • + 2
 XO carbon cranks have a history with breakage.
  • + 6
 So, this is basically #AD
  • + 8
 It's commercial advertising supported media. The ads are the content. Everything else is just filler. So of course as much of the filler that can be made into a form of advertising the better....for the media company and ad buyer anyways.
  • + 3
 Why would an "old" crank from say 2018 fail at all? Hard hits are nothing new, bikes absorb impact much better than 5 years ago, for instance. Everyone is covering for e13. Money talks...
  • + 5
 Kind of a soft landing in that Vital video...i've seen more harsh at Rampage or other DH races. Butter cranks.
  • + 2
 People in the thread acting like they really spend time considering and weighing up the options when it comes to their crank choice. Nah, we just run whatever comes with the groupset lets be real
  • + 1
 They hint at it, but what doesn't come out clearly is that the top pros are not usually the ones doing the bleeding edge testing of products. They have others for that. Because nobody wants stuff like this to happen. I know a guy who used to be a pro and a test rider for Specialized in the time that disk brakes were starting to come out. He blew up tons of them. Only the ones that survived his testing then went on to the high-profile riders also on the payroll. Not surprisingly, he was one of the last riders I know that was running V-brakes on an otherwise high end bike only a few years back.
  • + 4
 seems like you would run Alu cranks for this type of racing!?!?!? is it really worth the weight?
  • + 2
 Hell no. He likely has no chance at the world cup title this year now... simply because he used carbon cranks.
  • + 1
 Not sure why all the salt about this. It is truly rare that product these days (even proto stuff) is defective or underbuilt to the point of consistent riskiness. Any larger than average hit for a pro-level or even the odd amateur rider risks breaking major components. Kudos to Mr. Wrench for stepping-up to shoulder some blame here... BUT all of us from skatepark rats to bikepark bros to XC rippers know that ALL components break sometimes, and injury can occur because of it. Even absent of any wrenching oversights.

Glad that the injury is recoverable and hoping it does not change his career.

Please calm down, keyboard warriors. I don't think too many people who have honestly busted premium parts are outraged about this at all. Try jogging or yoga if you want to be safe and injury-free Wink
  • + 5
 There's been a lot of CYA on pinkbike lately.
  • + 2
 Should of never happened at that level, cranks should be switched out after every round and checked during the weekend. They can afford it, what they can't afford is a downed rider.
  • + 5
 Nice ankle, that's 3-4 weeks without any serious loading and torquing.
  • + 2
 Depends on who it happens to. Bruising and inflammation is all we can see and that can heal enough in a few weeks. I think he'll race fort william and take it easy if it still hurts him, same as last year with the thumb injury.
  • + 2
 Impossible to Tell, indeed. My ankle looked exactly the same, but I had snapped two ligaments.
  • + 1
 There are a few types of LG1 race cranks out there, which ones were the old ones that we shouldn't use? How to check?

bythehive.com/products/lg1-race-carbon-crankset gen3

bythehive.com/products/lg1-race-carbon-cranks-gen4 gen 4
  • + 1
 don't use anything ethirteen. This company has had major issue with all their carbon components. And they have not been honest with their customers. E thirteen carbon hubs fall apart and cranks break.
  • + 5
 This was the reply from an email I sent asking about my 3 year old LG1's That was an isolated event and was a result of a miscommunication. We do not have any cranks on the market that are under a recall, so you have nothing to worry about with your set. Thank you for your support!
  • + 0
 The problem with carbon is that you could have a rock fly up and bounce off your crank tomorrow, compromising its strength. Since rocks hitting cranks is so common you don't inspect it. Then the crank fails and you'll be super pissed and blame e13 thinking the product was defective. Especially after email them about it.

This problem applies to any brand of carbon cranks... so maybe switch to alloy and don't worry about it?
  • + 4
 Yea, he really should have owned it Larry Enticer style. BROKEN CRANKS, STILL GONNA SEND IT.
  • + 4
 If e13 wanted there most expensive talent on a different set of cranks they would be on this bike.
  • + 1
 Great write up Pinkbike and cheers to John and Aaron for creating clarity for the public. I know some of the comments on vital were not exactly positive and had speculation of aaron pointing fingers. This article allowed John the opportunity to first hand take the ownership of the issue. Truth and ownership is so important to a working relationship. Good luck this upcoming weekend guys!! ???????? ????
  • + 3
 The jig is up if Aaron breaks ANOTHER one this season during WC action. Not sure what the official response would be then.
  • + 3
 My ankle start to hurt just by looking at his picture. Hope Aaron heal well.
  • + 5
 Saint
  • + 3
 "Responsibility and fault for that lay entirely on me" - Back peddling now mate...
  • + 3
 Where's the team owner when you're lookin for someone to blame, handy the mechanic is always nearby.
  • + 3
 When the Rodent went into orbit & broke HIS crank on landing, it wasn't a big thing was it?
  • + 0
 Had a similar issue with the old version of e13 LG1R carbon crank. TBH, e13 have been very transparent, admitting this version had a weakness and sent me the new version. At least they own up to their product’s impercection
  • + 1
 Been there ,and sometimes even don’t really realized that I have done that only in the day before ,but hey I have to work so ,one week later and ok 80% ,but hey I’m family of super man ,best wishes for you gwin
  • + 2
 Were they prototypes? If not, and if E13 is advising the team not to use a product, then should there not be a product recall?
  • + 7
 They were.
  • + 3
 Whenever I’m afraid I sing a happy tune ???? should have left Pandora’s box closed.
  • + 1
 Good title for this Aaron Gwin Trail monster kills e-13 crank. He's just more powerful than they expected. Own it. Sounds like a great off season. Can't wait to see him ride.
  • + 4
 missed opportunity for "Gwinterview"
  • + 2
 I don't care to listen to the knitting club gossip of who is wrong or right (Gwin or E13). Just go ride or lets just see some good riding.
  • + 2
 Elevate and wrap that thing in some Arnica Gwizard need some points and fort willie
  • + 2
 Does that mean that all per 2019 e13 carbon cranks are suspect? I run 2018 e13 carbon DH cranks now? Should I replace?
  • + 2
 Standard EThirteen Junk, should stick to making bash guards and chain guides (which they do very well)
  • - 1
 So many comments here that operate from a premise that he has to defend his sponsors and it's all about money etc. It's really pathetic how quickly people question the values and integrity of others. Ownership and accountability is a huge reason for their success. This is how consistently successful people deal with setbacks. This is why Gwin and Hall will continue to win.
  • + 3
 Are my e-13 carbon cranks gonna break???????
  • + 1
 Has E Thirteen recalled the "old" cranks for general consumers, or just Gwinn? Pretty sure my buddy with those cranks didnt get the same email.
  • + 3
 E13 and carbon.....bad combo
  • - 1
 Amazing to see such long threads of unsupported speculation, misinformation, assumptions, and general lack of understanding about everything from product development to racing.

The difference between e*thirteen's "old" cranks in discussion and the new cranks (just released at Sea Otter) is massive.

- bythehive.com/collections/cranks
- www.pinkbike.com/news/review-ethirteens-updated-lg1r-carbon-cranks.html
  • + 1
 "For some reason, there was one pair left in my garage" ??????
Why not a pair of Diabolous cranks left in the garage ? A man´s crank not not a pussy carbon crank .
  • + 3
 TLDR; Buy Hope cranks.
  • + 3
 liar
  • + 1
 Same cranks as e-13 was shocked to hear Aston bent during his supreme 29 test?
  • + 1
 Two class acts, these guys. I like how Gwin uses "us" & "we" a lot more then "I".
  • + 0
 Seriously- Nevermind the fact Gwin is a savage on a bike. I would want him on my team just so I could learn how to be a better person.
  • + 2
 Sounds like the Josh Bryceland send to flat years ago at the finish line.
  • + 13
 @endlessblockades: Except his Saint cranks didn't give a sh1t about that mounstrous G-out.
  • + 3
 @nozes: yeh was thinking this, I've run Saint cranks and those things are indestructible, I don't see any good alloy dh cranks breaking from that impact tbh, it seems carbon cranks just like to explode at random, a lot like carbon anything on a bike
  • + 1
 I had a really similar looking ankle injury a couple of years back, I was off the bike for about 2 months. Get well soon AG
  • + 1
 Still riding my E13's. Ankles are running 100%.
  • + 2
 I smell bs
  • + 0
 #fake News!!!! I call bullshit!!! Anyways run some real cranks and you will never have that problem!!!!
  • + 1
 Nice foot shots at least!! Quality sprain right there!!
  • + 1
 You know it is getting better when starts to get itchy!
  • + 1
 Saving weight by trimming his toe nails down to the quick..
  • + 1
 VIDEO ??
  • + 3
 Vitalmtb posted it
  • + 2
 @the-dadavist: Can't seem to find it.
  • + 1
 @charmingbob: You da best!! I couldn't find that anywhere!
  • + 1
 VIDEOOOOO
  • + 8
 KILLED THE RADIO STAR
  • + 0
 @spaceofades: it truly did.
  • + 0
 Damn Pinkbike users! Who hurt you?!
  • + 1
 Sweet cankles bro
  • + 1
 Fair play.
  • + 0
 E13 quality!

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