Interview: Jared Graves Comments on Failed Drug Test
Earlier today, Richie Rude and Jared Graves confirmed to Pinkbike that they tested positive for the drugs Higenamine and Oxilofrine at an in-competition test in Olargues, France. Jared is also undergoing treatment for a brain tumour that he was diagnosed with back in September, making the situation all the more distressing.
We sat down with Jared to get the specifics of the situation from his perspective.
We sat down with Jared to get the specifics of the situation from his perspective.
Did you return an adverse analytical finding?
Jared Graves: Yes.
When and where did this get returned from?
Graves: The race was the EWS, round three in France, and it was probably late-July when we got news of it. So that was when we first found out.
Graves tested positive for Higenamine and Oxilofrine at this season's EWS race in Olargues, France.
Do you know the substance, or substances, that caused the AAF?
Graves: There are two things, and they're stimulants; Higenamine and Oxilofrine were the two things. And from what we know now, Higenamine is a banned substance in-competition and out of competition, but Oxilofrine is only banned in-competition.
Have you ever intentionally taken a banned substance?
Graves: Absolutely not. That's the biggest part of what we're on about here; there's no way that I'd ever do anything to hurt my reputation or anything like that. I've had too many years of racing. I think it's fair to say about myself that I'm at the twilight of my career, so to speak, so now would not be the time to start doing anything like that. I mean, I've had so many years back in the day, and especially the 4X and BMX times, when I was on the ASADA [Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority] testing pool and I got dozens of tests every year in competition and complete random tests out of competition, which included blood tests as well and that sort of stuff. And I never had a single issue with anything.
The big thing for me is that some of the drinks I've had, like a pre-workout type of drink, they're all things that I've had in the past and were never on the banned list. And I've always tested clean in every test I've ever had, so I just never thought to update myself with any information if anything was added to the banned list because every test I've ever had was clean.
You know, you're not seeking any of the bigger name, nasty things that people talk about and associate with cycling in general, so you know you're not seeking out any of that stuff. To me, I have nothing to worry about, and this whole thing, for lack of a better way to put it, is a big 'what the f*ck' moment.
What are Higenamine and Oxilofrine?
Higenamine is used to treat asthma and is also part of the Beta2 agonist class of drugs. Like all Beta 2s, it's totally banned in and out of competition by WADA. It works by relaxing the muscles that control the airways, letting the lungs take in more oxygen and boost performance. Higenamine is also used as a fat burner in dietary supplements.
Oxilofrine is a stimulant and amphetamine that's known to increase focus and alertness, and it can reduce reaction time by encouraging the body to produce more adrenaline. This has the added benefit of boosting endurance, increasing the oxygenation of the blood, and burning fat. It's banned in-competition.
Both are 'Specified Substances,' a subcategory of prohibited substances that are not necessarily less potent but do leave open the possibility of a reduced sentence through a plausible explanation. WADA says that Specified Substances were introduced: "to recognize that it is possible for a substance to enter an athlete’s body inadvertently," and therefore allow a tribunal more flexibility when making a sanctioning decision.
The two substances that showed up, would they be listed as ingredients in any of your supplements? And if not, do you have any idea of what might have caused the test result?
Graves' lawyer, Matt Kaiser: We can't answer that right now, unfortunately.
It sounds like the suspicion is the supplements, though?
Graves: We've certainly gone through everything that I've had in the time leading up to that day, and we're getting things tested to try and pinpoint exactly where it came from.
Other pro men wait for their turn at the AFLD's doping control station on May 13th.
In a race or a training situation, is it ever something that crosses your mind that you wouldn't drink from someone's bottle or that you wouldn't take something that maybe you're not familiar with?
Graves: At home, I have a very close group of guys that I train with, and even a lot of those guys don't race themselves, so they've got no interest in anything that could be deemed 'performance enhancing.' They're into it for the pure love of the sport, and there's no way they'd want to do anything to hurt my reputation or anything like that.
As far as at a race goes, it's kind of something that's been encouraged amongst riders; so everyone helps each other out, which is an awesome part of the sport. Certainly, you never think like that, especially when you're in the 'race frame of mind.' You know, you try to help everyone as best you can, and I think everyone sort of has the opinion of 'look after everyone else, and when you need a bit of help they'll look after you.' That's kind of the way that everyone goes about the competition, really. Everyone's looking out for each other. I've certainly never thought anything malicious might be going on between anyone, and I still don't think that.
Was this the first time you've been tested while competing in the Enduro World Series?
Graves: Yes, this is the first time I've been tested.
Have you been aware of any testing at other Enduro World Series events?
Graves: Not to my knowledge, no. I know there's been some other testing in other races that I haven't competed in, but not in an EWS.
And you've already said that you were tested in other disciplines and that it wasn't that much of an uncommon occurrence?
Graves: Over the years, I've been tested in other disciplines.
It was a cold, dark weekend in Olargues, France, when the EWS rolled into town.
How is an EWS athlete supposed to know what substances are banned? Is this something that the organizer communicates with you, or is it entirely on your guys' shoulders to go figure that out?
Graves: It's not something that I've ever even thought about because, again, I thought I had absolutely nothing to worry about. As far as the rider, it's something that you have to be aware of yourself, and it's not something that's been hugely advertised in any way. But now is a good time to mention that everyone should take this as an example to educate themselves, I guess, and really look at what they're putting in their bodies because, to me, this is a prime example of how easy something like this can happen.
I just never would have thought I'd be in this situation, yet here we are. You've got to be really aware, especially with it becoming more of a normal thing now, so you've got to be super on top of what you're putting into your body. Inform yourself.
From here, what's the next step? What's the process?
Graves: We're still waiting on an actual hearing date, so there's not too much else that we can say or do for now. It's just trying to pinpoint where the substances came from and just build our defence as best we can and try to think of anything that might be helpful towards our situation.
For me, personally, the biggest part is for 2019; I wouldn't be racing anyway because I've got another six months of high-dose chemo coming up, so that won't end until the middle of the year, and then it can take months before you're back to normal energy levels. It's nasty stuff and it takes awhile for your body to recover from the high-dose chemo cycles. It's looking like this time next year before I'd even be able to one-hundred-percent be back into training. So for me, racing next year isn't on the cards anyway.
Jared's friend, former teammate, and sometimes training partner Richie Rude took the win in France and also tested positive for banned substances.
Are you aware of if your B sample has already been tested?
Graves: I don't think we even opted for the B sample, did we?
Graves' lawyer, Matt Kaiser: No, you're correct. We didn't opt for the B sample and just accepted that the results are what they were.
What do you think this news will mean for the sport of enduro racing? Do you think we're going to see any big changes as far as more testing, which I think we'll be seeing anyway with the UCI coming in?
Graves: Yeah, I think testing was going to be part of the whole deal anyway, but I just hope it doesn't give a negative reputation for the sport because that'd be super-bad for the sport at this point. It's just starting to get some really good momentum behind it. Again, something like this has come up out of nowhere and it's been completely unexpected. It just goes to show how easy something like this can happen and it'd be a big bummer if people... If things start snowballing with comments on the internet, and people start talking about their opinions of stuff that they don't really know what they're talking about, or the particular situation.
So I just think it'd be unfortunate for the sport if people - I don't know if it's just Saturday night boredom or something - if they could just keep that in check until the facts are known. That would be awesome.
Graves declined having his B sample be tested.
How do you want to address the scepticism?
Graves: I just hope they can see that everything I've said is the truth, and I've always been a clean rider. I hope they can just identify the difference between some bigger name, more commonly talked about substances that we haven't tested positive for and certainly haven't ever considered having anything to do with. There's a big difference between that sort of stuff and what we've tested positive for. And how easily it can happen; caffeine is a stimulant and caffeine is in everything.
I'd just like to say to people that if you've ever had a coffee before to try and amp yourself up for a race or something, then you've essentially tried to do something that... You know, everyone is drinking coffee all the time, so everyone's guilty of taking a stimulant of some degree to try and energize themselves for a race or whatever.
The situation that I'm in at the moment, a lot of people could be in if they had been tested at that race. Just try and not jump to conclusions.
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the entire measure of guilt/accountability/innocence/etc is routed in the answer and accuracy of this question. No one under investigation or trying to clear their name is going to answer it in what is essentially a casual interview. It's a massively loaded question for the rides and potentially any supplement brand that may be involved and would not be discussed outside of a formal setting with legal council. dodging it isn't guilt, it's standard legal protocol, and the answer will be known eventually. Until then all anyone can do is speculate.
They are both hardcore cheaters... and you are part of the whole media strategy to cover their cheating asses...
Sad guy with your defense for your cheating butt buddies... and abuse of your admin rights here...
Pretty obsessive btw that you behave like this... apparently this is normal for you...
Pretty sick btw that you are up to these practices
Mtn creek is richie's home mountain. He can often be scene riding at it. I would be shocked to learn even one rider goes "w0w richie used PED I'm never riding creek again and certainly not bringing my business to the awesome bike shop next to creek" come on seriously the only people this will have a massive affect on besides those personally involved is all they keyboard warriors on PB.
Everyone calling these guys cheaters and a disgrace need to stop and realize. These athletes have worked extremely hard and are exceptionally talented riders. It's not like once an athlete uses a PED that they go from the best rider in your group to suddenly putting up strong cat1 results. Let's understand something about the athlete and the substance before the fans start trying to burn our own industry.
The problem with PED is one athlete can have an unfair advantage due to a supplement correct? Is it an unfair advantage to a factory rider who has a mechanic that's on salary being paid more than the privateer makes in his 9-5? If you're factory rider and you have parts that no one else does, is this an obvious clear advantage?
Yes I understand they are breaking rules and need to be punished but to suddenly say they are going to personally tank an industry, disgrace us all and affect my earning power in this industry now that's comical. At the end of the day its still just riding bikes.
People that are jumping to conclusions and taking a “holier than thou” attitude towards the test results need to pump the brakes and wait for due process.
The timing is obviously very unfortunate for Jared but that does not take away the fact that there is an AAF.
Full disclosure: I take vitamin C cos my mum says it will stop me getting a cold...
I dont see it as serious as some - probably because Rude/Graves are some of my favorite riders. But this expose is about otc stuff and its sounding like Rude and Graves were in the bushes getting blood transplants.
I'm totally not surprised that EWS athletes may have been a bit less cautious about this stuff until now since testing has been non-existent.
The only good thing to come out of this will likely be that everyone will step up their game from now on with regard to checking everything they put in their body.
The second thing is, the vast majority of banned substances weren't designed for sports. They are drugs and hormones that were designed for legitimate health and medical reasons and were co-opted by dirty athletes and sports doctors. Therefore, there are good reasons for many of these chemicals to exist in perfectly normal over the counter or prescription products, and an athlete needs to be aware of them. Similarly, some supplements or ingredients of supplements from less conscientous companies may be made in the same facilities as products that contain banned substances. You could then get tiny amounts of cross contamination that might still show up in a test. Same way you can buy a supermarket cheese and tomato pizza that says it may contain peanuts. Some powder somewhere has been dropped through the same funnel that once had a different powder dropped through it.
Third, the exact same branded, trademarked and packaged substance can have different ingredients in different countries because of different testing and certifying requirements. Alain Baxter had a skiing bronze medal stripped from the Salt Lake Winter Olympics because he used an asthma inhaler he bought in a US drugstore. it was the same inhaler with the same name in the same package from the same brand that he always used in Europe, but the US version had a banned drug in it as standard and he never thought to check. C'est la vie.
I truly wish him a full recovery from cancer and hope this analytical finding can be cleanly resolved.
Sorry to say, but the twilight of an athlete's career -that one is attempting to stretch in duration- is exactly when performance enhancers become interesting.
Anderson Silva (MMA).
Ryan Crowley (AFL).
...
Quite a few long and storied careers ended by positive doping tests.
I hope I have that right - I don’t want to be one of the Saturday night
(Pressed send too early - arm pump made my fingers stiff...)
In addition to how it ends: "The situation that I'm in at the moment, a lot of people could be in if they had been tested at that race." I read this as "I am not the only one with Richi". Or am I miss reading it?
Essentially, you shouldn't lose anything by trying to defend yourself.
Graves: Yes, this is the first time I've been tested."
WTF?! he has been racing every year in EWS and its the first time he got tested (same for richie rude) ?
How unserious has the testing been in EWS ?
Just no to Monster, Rockstar, Ryno, Redbull, all that crap. I just get frustrated when I see some kid, who's obviously going to struggle with his weight for life, pounding a 16oz sugary, amped up drink. The kids are just falling for the marketing.
Jared hasn’t even denied accidentally taking the substance and my interpretation is that the banned substance may have even been listed on the supplement packaging itself. They just didn’t realise as they made an assumption that if it was good x years ago when they started using it, then it’s still good.
It’s a f*ck- up, no doubt. But it certainly appears that they’ll be found “guilty”.
Sucks, Jared has more important shit to be dealing with right now.
There are no excuses. Especially if it turns out that the supplement LISTS the banned substance right on the label.
In my field of work, I'm expected to understand the law in order to perform my duties, if I don't, I'm not in compliance. It's not that it cant, or doesn't happen, but if it does, I'm liable. Simple.
I'm not saying I don't feel bad for the guys, it's obvious a mistake, but it's happened, and they have to own that. Pleading ignorance is OK, but it's been pretty clearly stated by the authorities that it's not an excuse.
Still their fault?
I think until it's proven otherwise, they deserve the benefit of the doubt at least.
Whether it's fair is a whole other topic.
"so I just never thought to update myself with any information if anything was added to the banned list because every test I've ever had was clean. "
Says to me that even if it WAS on the listed ingredients, he wouldn't have known it was illegal anyway, because neither of these guys bothered to check. It might not have been Ryno, it could have been any off the shelf supplement, because they never checked the legality, they'll never really know what they ingested.
Perhaps it was a miss, and it was on the label - if so, yeah, their fault - no debate from me.
If however, it was not on the label, I can't agree with you - though you are entitled to you opinion and I can see your point. I think the supplement company is at fault, and I'm sure they will pay in the end.
Not a mistake either will make again, regardless.
Unfortunately, I agree with you, it's very challenging for a single person to test everything scientifically before consuming, so the options they're left with are don't consume it, or hope for the best.
I dont think anyone can hold Ryno accountable (legally) although I'm sure this will hurt sales, ultimately it'll cost Graves and Rude the most, because I think they're screwed either way. We'll see.
I guess we'll see once it all comes out in the wash.
Like I said in my prior post, if you took the example of my responsibilities as a worker however, yes, I make myself fully aware of the laws I'm obligated to follow before performing the work.
@Beez177 I work in aviation, f*ck ups rarely offer a second chance.
So you have never fought a speeding ticket, tried to talk you way out of one? You get pulled over say yeah I was speeding by so many kph give me the ticket? My point is people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Give them a chance in the trial, let them have their say, I'm hoping they are given some leniency too as I have a lot of respect for both of them. I'm just playing devil's advocate as the guys sitting across the bench from them in court, I think it'll be a hard one to win.
We shall see.
I just wonder why the hell a company would put such a specific and costly substance into a supplement without labeling it? So everyone who's on it can reap the benefits but claim ignorance? Horsesh*t. Especially as they'd get the shit sued out of them for putting things like that in without labeling it. It's not just a pinch of seaweed.
@FLATLlNE
@rippersub
@mfoga
These guys are amongst the best mtn bikers on the planet. They obsess, they train, they're insanely talented and dedicated. I've enjoyed following their careers but don't base my theological religion of riding around them.
I find it hard to believe that athletes as calculated as these don't know what the f they're putting into their bodies.
They have their program down to a science. According to the bikerweb keyboard supersleuths, Jared was already taking one of these substances before it was banned. So it's no stretch to believe that an athlete in this position who feels that they receive a benefit from said supplement, would continue to use it if they weren't being tested, even if it just became banned. "I've used it so far, so why would I stop if I'm not being tested and I feel a noticeable benefit?" Maybe tweak the dosage level some.
It's hard to change your program and loose a mental and physical benefit if your're a consistent contender for the top 10 and i think it's fair to say that these two are amongst the most competitive athletes in their field and aren't happy without a top result.
All just speculation though. I like both these athletes and as only a very small cross section of the EWS field was tested, this could be the beginning of 100 other athletes quickly changing their "supplement" mix. They probably already have. So let's be realistic about how many of the field could be taking a banned substance.
This is the beginning of change. They'll get suspensions. Many riders will clean up what needs to be cleaned up. More testing across the field going forward and cleaner racing going forward. It's a good thing.
And I hope we can see Jared finish his career on form for a couple more seasons after beating cancer and after his suspension.
I lived with a guy who had his trip paid for to the 2012 Olympics and ended up with a 3 year sanction for this exact reason. You call BS all you want - I've seen it first hand - it's not pretty.
I just like to give people the benefit of the doubt, when there is reason to have a doubt.
That's a horrible situation. One other thought i had is that these supplements are expensive, so I imagine the margins are large enough that the manufacturers can add some "specified substances" as the results will keep athletes buying it. They'd have to be dead on with the dosage levels though to not fk people up and be run out of business by a class action suit.
Would love some PB reporting on diets and supplements that our EWS and DH (or even XC) athletes live by. Just to get an idea of what sort of nutrition/supplements it takes to keep someone firing on all cylinders for a season of competition. I'm not sure how anxious athletes are to share their secret sauce though.
"so I just never thought to update myself with any information if anything was added to the banned list because every test I've ever had was clean."
Q; "In a race or a training situation, is it ever something that crosses your mind that you wouldn't drink from someone's bottle"
A; "As far as at a race goes, it's kind of something that's been encouraged amongst riders; so everyone helps each other out, which is an awesome part of the sport."
that's been supported by a positive test result, how can you question that?
Bad idea! First, testing is expensive. It's just not something many teams can budget for. Second, who wants the liability? Imagine if a team found out a rider had a substance in his system, pulled him from racing until it was gone and then put him back in the next race. Imagine if someone leaked the info that this had happened? Now you're the team that covers up drugs cheats. Catastrophe. The team would need to either instantly fire the rider, refer them to the UCI, or both. And then what have you really gained for all the money you just spent on the testing? The rider is still gone, except this way they're probably thinking of sueing you with the claim that you f*cked up your unstandardized test.
But subripper, Jared hasn't been tested in years, right? Until France this year. Are his current supplements the same he was taking years ago before EWS when he was tested regularly?
Also, we don't know the science behind the tests. What do these amounts of these substances even mean? Is the water bottle theory sound? Based on the level on specific substances found, would it have HAD to have come from the France race? Was Jared drinking from 20 other people's water bottles during this 2-day race? I doubt it, so could he narrow it down to another athlete's mix? Could "unintentional water bottle doping" from a month and a half earlier (Colombia) have still affected the test?
At any rate, yes, you quoted what Jared said. Which was carefully crafted between him and his lawyer.
It's not a witch hunt. I like both these guys. It's just hard to believe that both had no idea these substances were in their bodies and banned. That's just way too damn convenient. We'll see how this plays out. It's good to hear everyone's opinions but ultimately, we're all just talking out our asses because we don't know, just trying to make sense of what's been shared so far.
Higenamine is typically described as a ‘natural’ extract or by-product and also goes by the names: Demethylcoclaurine, Norcoclaurine
Tinospora crispa, etc. While oxifrilone can be listed multiple ways as well, one of which is m-synephrine, not to be confused with p-synephrine (legal now but on the "watch list")
It's easy to sit back and point fingers at others for wrongdoing, but this stuff is anything by that black and white. Especially when factoring in an accident v. With intent.
Also, maybe the UCI should provide off-season testing to give the riders a chance to get checked out before racing season testing.
You could eat a meal, but it could take hours to absorb the nutrients from your food, and as far as I know your blood is working then more to digest, and less for recovery.
With an isolated protein supplement, you are investing nutrients that are already broken down and ready to be absorbed. Your blood and body is now working purely on recovery, and not on digestion. Better gains, faster recovery.
I'd be interested in seeing some real studies about your body adapting and not absorbing nutrients properly as a result of moderate use of a protein supplement. I've never heard of this.
anybody have some clarity on this?
Let's just hope Jared gets back to full health and Richie continues to have fun on his bike, because while results are important to pro's, enjoying life and riding bikes is more important.
Agreed.
STFU and get out and ride your bike and be thankful that you were able to enjoy a ride today.
That said, who's to say they even use Ryno at home, honestly. No different than any pro riding a blacked out Maxxis tire. And every sensible RedBull athlete who takes a daily selfie with a cracked can - there is no way half those people out that junk in their body. That said, maybe Ryno makes good stuff - I have no idea - but maybe these guys trainers have them on something completely different.
I used to live with Nick Roberts. He was literally the strongest guy in Canada for several years and has an invite to the Olympics in 2012. He was clean, his lifestyle was extremely clean. I would almost bet my life that he wouldn't dope even to this day. We would actually have dope testers randomly knock on our home door every once in a while to take a urine sample. His day job was therapy and he was helping a girl as a favor and her boyfriend flowed him some fairly mundane supliments - protein I believe. He check the contents/ingredients - checked out fine. He failed his subsequent drug test, was banned from lifting for 3 years and didn't make it to London in 2012. Was a heart breaker for everyone who know him.
So yeah...it definitely happens. And these supliment company registration isn't up to snuff. They need to be held accountable. If it is indeed Ryno, or any other, I hope the two boys roast them in court and never have to work another day in their lives.
Many Others have said I’m more bothered about him beating the tumour than a frankly questionable positive test.