Interview: Richie Rude Comments on Failed Drug Test

Nov 25, 2018
by Mike Levy  



As you might have seen earlier today, Jared Graves and Richie Rude confirmed that they both tested positive for the banned drugs Higenamine and Oxilofrine at an in-competition test in Olargues, France, during the third round of the Enduro World Series.

Richie and Jared's cases are both waiting for a hearing date, and there hasn't been an announcement yet as far as a decision or sanctions go. In the meantime, we reached out to Richie to hear his side of the story.




Did you return an adverse analytical finding from the French EWS race?


Richie Rude: Yes. I was notified in July.


Do you know what substance could have caused the AAF?


Richie: No. I tested positive for two substances that are specified, but at the moment we don't know where it came from. So we're getting things tested to figure that out. There were super low amounts of whatever substances were in the test; it was parts per billion.


Richie Rude is back There was no stopping him once the stage wins started piling up.
Richie won the EWS event in Olargues, France, but would later test positive for Higenamine and Oxilofrine at the post-race French Anti-Doping control.


Have you ever intentionally taken a banned substance?


Richie: No, and I would never take anything. I see myself as a clean athlete and I've never taken anything to cheat, or nothing to better myself.


Do you know the names of the two substances that showed up?


Richie: Yeah, and they're classified as 'Specified Substances.' It was Higenamine and Oxilofrine.


Was this the first time that you've been tested while competing at an Enduro World Series event?


Richie: Yes, this was my first time being tested at an EWS. I've been tested before in downhill, but not in the EWS.


When was that?


Richie: My last downhill race at World Champs in 2013. We had a test there.


Do you know if there have been tests at other EWS races that you weren't called in for?


Richie: I'm not totally sure, but I've talked to a couple of people and I think there have been tests but I'm not 100-percent on that.


How is an EWS athlete supposed to know what substances are banned? Is this something that the EWS communicates to you, or is it your responsibility to figure that out on your own?


Richie: At the moment, it's in our own hands. With having a UCI license, you kinda have to take it into your own hands and make sure that you're looking at the banned substance list. You know, since we haven't really had testing in the EWS, they haven't made it fully aware for us.

I think more people need to look at the WADA list and make sure that there's nothing in any of those supplements or anything like that.


Is the suspicion that these substances would have come from a supplement?


Richie: That's my first guess.
What are Higenamine and Oxilofrine?

Higenamine is used to treat asthma and is also part of the Beta2 agonist class of drugs. Like all Beta 2s, it's totally banned in and out of competition by WADA. It works by relaxing the muscles that control the airways, letting the lungs take in more oxygen and boost performance. Higenamine is also used as a fat burner in dietary supplements.

Oxilofrine is a stimulant and amphetamine that's known to increase focus and alertness, and it can reduce reaction time by encouraging the body to produce more adrenaline. This has the added benefit of boosting endurance, increasing the oxygenation of the blood, and burning fat. It's banned in-competition.

Both are 'Specified Substances,' a subcategory of prohibited substances that are not necessarily less potent but do leave open the possibility of a reduced sentence through a plausible explanation. WADA says that Specified Substances were introduced: "to recognize that it is possible for a substance to enter an athlete’s body inadvertently," and therefore allow a tribunal more flexibility when making a sanctioning decision.



You're a professional athlete and you're taking supplements that you need to take, but had you taken anything out of the ordinary in the past that you might not have taken otherwise?


Richie's lawyer, Matt Kaiser: We'll need to pass on that one. We have to do our own history and checking of what you did and didn't take, and have everything tested.


Richie Rude was on a tear today perhaps we will see him return to dominant form Da
Richie says he suspects that supplements may be responsible for the Higenamine and Oxilofrine in his system.


Richie, what's the next step for you? What happens now?


Richie: We're waiting to hear back from the French Anti-Doping Agency, waiting to hear their verdict and we'll put in our story of it and tell them how it was fully unintentional and that it was an accident. So we're waiting to hear back from them; it's kinda like a waiting game, obviously.


A lot of waiting, which has to be an extremely frustrating thing right now. I imagine that you're sitting there waiting for the e-mail or phone call...


Richie: Yeah, exactly. You know, it was essentially an accident, and it's kind of hard to wait and see what they'll say. Hopefully, they'll give us some good news.


Speaking of what's going to happen down the road, you probably don't know if you're going to be able to compete in EWS racing next year quite yet. But if you weren't, and the sanction kept you from racing the EWS, would you consider racing World Cup downhill again?


Richie: I definitely would, but it's hard to know at the moment what the French Anti-Doping has power over. But yeah, if that was an option, I think it'd be kind of fun. But you kind of want to respect the sanction.


What do you think this means for the sport of enduro racing?


Richie: I think, honestly, it's kind of a bummer to have something like this come up. I mean, I think it's good that it's an unintentional thing like this and nothing extreme, but it's a good learning experience for everybody. With the UCI coming in next year, I think they'll hopefully open up people's eyes to what could (come) up in tests and hopefully they'll look more closely at what they're taking or what other riders have.


Red Bull Content Pool - Dave Trumpore
back in the mix and only 11 seconds out of the lead Jared Graves was happy with his day.
Richie and Jared are friends, former teammates, and sometimes training partners. Both accept that Higenamine and Oxilofrine were in their systems.


Jared Graves tested positive at the same race; he's your buddy and sometime-training partner... Looking in from the outside, the casual fan might say that it does look suspicious.


Richie: Obviously, it might (look) suspicious but, you know, we are separate racers and I don't think it has too much of a connection. I don't think people should be suspicious of anything.


I know that you can't specify where you think it came from, but the obvious connection that people are going to make is that you're both Ryno Power athletes. What would you say to that?


Richie: Yeah, obviously it doesn't look great for them, but Ryno Power's motto has always been that they have clean substances, and so they shouldn't be brought into this whole situation.


Have you spoken with them at all?


Richie: I actually haven't at all.


Quietly confident Richie Rude has some work to do this weekend to get back in the hunt for his 3rd consecutive world title.
Rude is approaching the off-season as he would any other, by training hard and having fun on his bike. The question is: Will the two-time EWS champ be allowed to race?


Moving forward with your sponsors, with Red Bull and Yeti, do you know how your future might like with them for 2019 and beyond?


Richie: Yeah, I've spoken to both of them; Yeti is super positive and they're behind me on this whole thing. When my contract was coming up with Red Bull, they're behind me and always wanting to keep supporting me. I think even if there's a sanction for next year, there are a lot more opportunities for me besides racing.

You know, I think they both know me enough and that I'd never do anything or take a banned substance or anything like that, so they're definitely behind me on this.


Being a professional athlete like yourself, your whole life is dedicated to going as fast as possible and training - doing all the things you need to do to beat all the people - and now you're in this strange limbo place where you might not be able to race in 2019, or at least not the type of racing that you've trained a lot of your life for. So right now, are you just doing what you need to do regardless, or have you changed things up?


Richie: I've been thinking about that recently. It's hard to know what's going to happen, but I love riding and I love training so I've just continued to do what I usually do. Being with my trainer, Todd [Shumlick, PerformX Training], we filled up my whole lineup for 2019 and I'll continue doing that and having fun like I usually do in the off-season.


Anything else that you want to say to the fans and people out there?


Richie: I hope everybody has my back and believes me, and I think it sucks that this is happening and I'm sorry for that. But I think it'll all come out alright and I hope that they respect that these cases are going on.

We're still waiting to hear back from French Anti-doping and we shouldn't jump to any kind of conclusions, and it's hard to read that on Vital and those kinds of rumors going around. I think you should respect us and that we're not doing anything wrong.


226 Comments

  • + 247
 I miss the days when the only drugs taken by mountain bikers were recreational.
  • + 102
 It's coming back #wheellove
  • + 8
 @colincolin: Now that we're here just dropped last night, I'm going to give it a watch now Smile
  • + 12
 Right? I remember when one of the Houseman brothers got a World's title taken from you in the mid-2000s for smoking weed. Haha, which legit has the opposite effect of these drugs.
  • + 10
 @mackster23: Except that it can have a calming effect in an anxious (i.e. race) environment. Bode Miller was pretty candid with me about it one day and lets just say...it CAN help performance.
  • + 7
 @robnow: bode miller told you he smokes weed? Makes sense I guess must being chilling with his homie Michael Phelps
  • - 13
flag Robbyc1979 (Nov 26, 2018 at 12:16) (Below Threshold)
 @robnow: well body miller is a scientist so he would know. Wait no he’s not a scientist he’s just another a*shole with opinion they’re not qualified to have.
  • + 5
 And also the days when uninformed, opinionated monkeys didn’t throw their holier than thou judgemental poop all over the forum ... oh wait, that’s always what happens ...
  • + 1
 @Robbyc1979: The guys knows a lot more about how to be the best at what you do than most and I'm sure he has forgot more on the subject than anyone of us commenting.
  • + 4
 I’ve always found that going fast is quite recreational. So from that argument enhancement drugs can be “recreational”. Haha. But in all seriousness, why don’t these supliment companies submit the ingredients of their products to UCI for approval in UCI competition. That way these companies don’t unintentionally take their athletes out of competition from a failed drug test. And if it doesn’t pass then UCI can inform the company of what they are putting in that doesn’t meet approval. Oh wait that would make sense and we all know UCI can’t do that.
  • + 4
 @Robbyc1979: So an Olympic gold medalist and world cup champ is an a*shole that isnt qualified to make an opinion of what it takes to win at the highest level of a sport?
  • + 5
 @Robbyc1979: you need to smoke a bowl.
  • + 3
 The good old weed .
  • + 4
 I agree Bro, but you know: `these days` are not over for some of us. Smoking funny things is definitely not an help in my opinion when you have to attack a descent, but I remember one of my favourite descents in Lourdes France with a friend of mine when before the last descent of the day we took a break at the top of the funicular: drinking a good beer and smoking 2 spliffs each. When we moved from the bar I thought: shit, how am I gonna manage that last descent?...
I don`t know why, or quite almost though, but it was one of the best descents I did on that spot!!! Smile
  • + 2
 @robnow: Everyone knows Bode Miller was faster when he got 1.5 hrs of sleep and was still drunk AF. I dont doubt he smoked as well, but we all know his main "dope" was booze and the wifes of the local ski patrol.
  • + 1
 @TheUnknownMTBR: referring to us as uninformed and calling us monkeys is rather judgemental is it not?
  • + 0
 @aquanut: to an uninformed, poop throwing monkey, maybe ... moreso a thin-skinned one ;-)
  • + 0
 Duuude i am fast as a witches fart and if i did roids i would win every damn race guaranteed. Sam Hill would not even see my dust.
  • + 1
 I blame it on the Stans tubless fumes, they can get you high AF
  • + 166
 Hasn't spoken to Ryno, despite believing since July that it had something to do with supplements and despite Jared's +ve test. Maybe send them a quick email?
  • + 40
 That does stretch credibility. Since his comment was "I haven't actually at all", I assume that his lawyer (who popped in to deflect a question) or other person he works with has, but he doesn't want to talk about it. The old "really depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is." kind of thing.
  • + 20
 Yeah, that seems maybe like the first thing you should do after hanging up the phone.
  • + 33
 That was my thought exactly. He's spoken with Yeti and Redbull, but not with the company that provides him the supplements that he suspects caused this positive test?
  • + 111
 Or, it could be that he is sponsored by Ryno Power. And makes the fans believe he consume their products, but actually don't use it. If so, the drugs could not come from that. And it would make Ryno Power look bad if they sponsor him but he won't use thier products. Therefore no need for him to call them. And at the same time he can't state publicly that he don't use their products, cause that would probably end the sponsor deal.
  • + 2
 And they are "testing substances"? Surely any test would be completed by now, assuming this interview is current.
  • + 8
 Love Rude but thats a bit hard to understand I mean come on now
@gtill9000:
  • + 27
 @Startgas: I would think with all the DH riders Ryno sponsors in UCI events they would have had a positive result by now if something shady was going on.
  • + 32
 it's 100% probable that his lawyer wants to handle 100% of these conversations with sponsors and other companies, and Richie's probably been instructed to let the Lawyer follow this. You can imagine the sponsor's reaction if one of their athlete's call in a panic or in an emotional whirlwind. Plus - There's more than 2 athletes using Ryno that have gotten drug tests.
Also - I'd be very doubtful that any athlete is only using supplements or nutritional products from a single provider or company.
  • + 11
 @Startgas: I'd have to believe he does indeed use RP products. No professional athlete does it completely without supplements these days, so it's hard for me to imagine that he takes a check from one company and uses another's supplements. On the face of it supplements are not that different from one manufacturer to the next, the flavors change, there are different sources of protein, and some have a bit more of this or that, but as a whole, all clean supplements function the same way and are comprised of the same things.

His statement that he didn't even talk to them, when the two athletes who failed both share RP as a sponsor is very telling. Athletes have had contracts cancelled and have been sued for implying that tainted supplements lead to a failed doping test, I would imagine that fact plays a greater role in his answer than the idea that maybe he takes a competitor's products.
  • + 14
 @smithcreek: How dare you bring logic to the pinkbike speculation and gossip area!
  • + 39
 @aquanut: I am also a Ryno Power athlete and have been tested multiple times from WADA and I have passed both times. Ryno Power is a banned substance free company, and they go through testing to make sure no banned substances end up in their products. So unless someone at the testing facilities wasn't doing their job right and purposely added banned substances into one of their products, which seems pretty far fetched. I don't think Ryno Power is to blame here.
  • + 31
 its the vegemite Jared shared with him.. god knows whats in there .....
  • + 13
 @Startgas: my thoughts exactly... Like how Red Bull sponsors people but the only time they drink it is when they're forced to during a post race interview. I love the look on their faces when they taste that crap after forgetting what it tastes like.
  • + 1
 (edit)
  • + 3
 @maxyedor: I believe what @Startgas was getting at was that it may be a "sharpied tire logo" type of situation where he maintains the RP sponsorship but uses a competitors product. Given how close Graves and Rude are I wouldn't think it impossible that one turned the other onto something else.
  • + 9
 @lucacometti: You've been tested multiple times and only passed twice? Well that's sound good
  • + 6
 If you check the vital thread someone has detectived an old photo of Graves from 2016 where has has a bunch of supplement bottles with him - one of the products he is using is a fat burner called PESciences Alphamine
A few posts later somebody shows the ingredient list and it contains Higenamine. So it seems Graves has been taking this stuff long term.
www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/EWS-Doping-Thread-Removal,10326?page=5
  • + 9
 @harrybrottman: same response I wrote when you posted this elsewhere... Photo is from Chile EWS in March 2016, and Higenamine was fully legal at that time and not on WADA list until 2017 season.
  • + 2
 @Lagr1980: "We're happy little Vegemites, puts a rose in every butt cheek"...

Or something like that.

Green aka weed = performance enhancing drug. Maybe they were just hanging out with some Norwegian XC Skiers before the race. Never know where these banned substances can come from, ask the Russian Curling team.
  • + 3
 @CavemanGypsy72: Ten bucks says most of them drink from the cans marked with a little W... get the look without the nasty taste! Smile
  • + 4
 @CavemanGypsy72: They have special cans full of water for the athletes; at least from what I've been told.
  • + 1
 @AMGoran: twice IS multiple times. So 100% pass rate. Very possibly a minor 'lost in translation' moment.
  • + 1
 It sounds kind of like the MLB players who were promoting ZMA when the baseball doping scandal was being investigated.
  • + 1
 Yep I read this and straight away thought that was a bit suss...
  • + 0
 Haha... so true... it is all fake...they are just users...
  • + 4
 I know Graves has got other much more important things on his mind, but it seemed odd he hadn't had his B sample tested. If you're adamant you haven't taking something intentionally, that leaves a mistake by the testers or accidental ingestion most likely through a supplement. Looks like they've both accepted its the supplement, yet having received the result in July they say the supplement testing is happening now. I believe they have taken it unintentionally, but cannot help but feel we're not getting the full story.
  • + 4
 @renrut: The timing of this announcement was clearly a deliberate decision. The athletes would have wanted it kept quiet during the racing season - November is an obvious choice that gives time for scandal to blow over somewhat before the start of next season. But, Pinkbike obviously knew this was gonna be a big deal, so they chose to publish the Monday after a holiday weekend ("cyber monday"...everyone is on the internet).

Naturally, in order, to make everyone happy, the timeline of the story had to be kept a bit vague. They frame it as new news, while Rude and Graves have presumably known the source of the dope since shortly they were given notice of the AAF.

Thus, the timeline of the details doesn't quite line up. It will later, I'm sure.
  • + 3
 @skylerd: yep, the footwork on this dance needs to be perfect, and even in the best case scenario proving their innocence is going to be a mission. Massive headache for all involved. Even if their ignorance is legit, they must know that they're 99.99% likely to get a ban of some sort. There's no real nuance in how this kind of thing is dealt with.
It's a bit of a Sharapova-style situation I think, i.e., not checking the banned list often enough.
  • + 5
 @skylerd: that's not really how it works... For one, the names are held as confidential by the testing agency as can be seen from their response in one of the other articles included in this series. In theory no one should even know the names, yet somehow it leaked out and has been rumor all through the fall and even starting at the last EWS rounds in September. Lots and lots of rumors, some borderline ridiculous an no where near what was reported here. Had the names and results not been leaked no one would even know, and if found innocent not a word would ever be made public. And if riders found out in July they are under no obligation to put out a press release. If anything detailed stories like this are of more benefit to those not involved because as rumors swirl it leaves a cloud over many peoples heads while negotiating contracts etc. It does no good for the two who are named because regardless of the message they are being thrown to the court of public opinion long before all the facts come out. The brakes have definitely been put on the more damaging rumors that have been swirling around the industry, and it's good to drop the facts as they are currently known out there before something even more damaging becomes the narrative, possibly roping in riders not even involved.

No need for the tin foil hats (unless you want to speculate how confidential names were leaked to most of the racing community. Then by all means something questionable went down)
  • + 1
 @davetrumpore: what you're saying isn't at all contradicting my comment. That all makes perfect sense.

It also makes sense that RR and JG made a deliberate decision about when they wanted to go public with what until now was meant to be confidential information. I was just replying to a comment about them only now getting suppliments tested, months after they were notified of the AAF. I might be reading too much in between the lines, but I thought that especially in the Graves interview, his answers imply that he already knows the source of the banned substances. You probably know more details than I do, but it looks like they've decided to keep some of the timeline vague for now.
  • + 3
 @skylerd: given the trajectory of jared's life starting in early august to the present with seizures, a brain tumor diagnosis, brain surgery, and chemo, I'm not at all surprised by the timeline. It also takes time to evaluate the test results, get lab tests done on supplements, receive results, and build a legal defense, etc.... none of this happens quickly and takes months not weeks. The interviews as well could be a bit dated and not posted until all the other details were buttoned up for the three other accompanying articles to be released all at one time, etc.

Basically, don't read into the "timline" as some sort of conspiracy or crafted charade. Patience for facts rather than speculation and opinion would be the best approach here.
  • + 48
 I'm not big on both of them being kind of dismissive and making it sound like no big deal. The only apparent fact at the moment is an adverse finding which is a big deal. They could be in for a shock.
  • + 9
 "Not big deal"... Hires Lawyer. I agree it looks rather suspicious, old teammates, same 2 drugs. Including a drug with a very short half-life which usually indicates some systematic stuff.
  • + 87
 @Jasper-diamond: To be fair, I would get a lawyer to talk on my behalf too - It makes sense guilty or not.
  • + 64
 @Jasper-diamond: having a lawyer isn’t indicative of guilt
  • + 31
 @kleinblake: right, but failing a drug test is
  • + 15
 This lawyer Matt Kaiser is a top notch white collar crime and drug dealer defense attorney. He's probably charging over $1,000/hour. Curious who's paying for the lawyer - Ryno Power? Certainly not ideal publicity for them if they want their product being used by pro athletes. Either way, I'm not buying all this "no big deal" bollox.
  • + 3
 @justanotherusername: I agree totally. I would hire a lawyer as well. I would also considered when a lawyer gets involved in this type of thing “big deal”
  • + 2
 @expatrider: does look like the guy is pretty much a 'doping violation' specialist, though that doesnt really mean anything it does remove my initial thoughts that this was just Richie using a lawyer that he has previous busines with e.g. one he has used to look over contracts or similar (unless he does that for Richie too of course)
  • + 11
 @Jasper-diamond: you clearly don't understand how things work. Any person with half a brain secures an attorney the minute they are accused. Dumbass comment of the week.
  • + 7
 @Golden-G: and one that specializes in the relevant field of the accusation.

All these comments about the lawyer's specialty - no kidding? What good would a contract/property/wills lawyer be in this case? You'd want a lawyer who knows the subject...
  • + 0
 @Jasper-diamond: Richie is from CT, and a very nice part of it to boot. Having a lawyer handy is not unusual, he probably uses one to negotiate contracts and whatnot.

The shady part is Graves is using the same one supposedly...
  • + 4
 Maybe the attitude is partly because they've known about this for four months...I'm sure they're over whatever initial emotions were flowing when they were first notified.
  • + 3
 @Golden-G read the full context dude. I’d hire a lawyer 100% it was the “no big deal” part I was talking about. I’ve been personally tested as an athlete. I know the drill.
  • + 1
 @Jasper-diamond: securing an attorney is in no way an admission of guilt as you had implied in your comment.
  • + 2
 @Golden-G: I implied it was a big deal... I can't see anywhere I made a connection to guilt? I guess maybe it's not a big deal to him or you? Others such as Bubba Stewart, Broc Tickle or Redbull KTM Factory Racing might disagree? I dunno Im just a dumbass that rides a bike to much to care really.
  • + 4
 @expatrider: Maybe it is good advertising for Ryno Power, if their core market is average Joes who aren't going to be tested :-)
  • + 1
 @Jasper-diamond: Damn your insightful perspective. You're right.

It happens with Roadies, we should assume it happens within any UCI discipline just as often.
  • + 1
 @yzedf: Typical in these situations to use the same attorney.
  • + 38
 How about an interview with Ryno Power?
  • + 21
 "We reached out to Ryno Power’s owner and president, Ryan McCarthy, who said unequivocally that neither Higenamine or Oxilofrine are found in their products. ''Not only have we never even used any products like that before, we have our stuff strictly tested, so it's impossible for any ingredient to get in that's not already on the ingredients list,'' he told Pinkbike."
  • + 6
 It's been the case with UFC, where supplement maker easily blended sht from one batch of one thing to a batch of another. All it takes is Billy having a rough night and a big head ache on the monday morning. Ryno... heh... I love the irony of latest press releases on Pinkbike. If i was into consipiracy theories I'd guess someone at Pinkbike has lots of sense of humor... Öhlins recall > Öhlins Review, Rachel Strait and Ryno commercial > Ryno EWS fk up... this is brilliant.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: by that logic/chain of events, shouldn’t the RP commercial come after drug test news then?
  • + 2
 Think they'll make an appearance after the debacle of their straight acres video? RP not looking great on pinkbike at the moment.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Everyone that got popped by USADA (one of the most comprehensive and thorough anti-doping agencies) in the UFC was guilty and it wasn't because the supplement company sprinkled a bit of clenbuterol and test in their creatine.
  • + 17
 What does "essentially an accident" mean? As a lawyer, I'd say that sounds like lawyer talk. I'm sure Richie's attorney read every word of Richie's responses (or certainly should have) and that stuck out to me as a weird thing to leave in.

I've always been a big fan of Richie's, not just because we are from the same hometown. Trying to figure out how I feel about all this.
  • + 7
 Ie some one got the calcs wrong and we tested over the threshold
  • + 14
 Its not even legit doping. You think OTC preworkout is really gonna make a difference?

Ban coffee, cause 800mg of caffiene will make a way bigger difference.

If they tested positive for EPO, AS, or SARMs Id say its legit. Stimulants like these insuch small amounts are a joke.

And Graves deserves to be left out of this bullshit. I hope all Balls $ for selling off EWS helps him feel better about this shite.

So much love for weed, but take an upper and your cheating. Pretty sure Miles and Missy swore that being high made them calmer and faster.

The doping police are out of control and too hyperfocused, cause really they couldnt afford to stay relevant with only busting real effective doping. So they make mountaons out of mole hills.
  • + 7
 Well yeah, I'm really wondering how much of an advantage the quantities they found would give an athlete. Especially compared to Red Bull, Monster, Rockstar or whoever has a say in their helmet paint these days.
  • + 83
 I'm sorry but that is misinformed. This is a big, complex topic and I don't want to delve too deep into it here one way or another, but to suggest these substances cannot offer a benefit is simply wrong (whether they did in this case, I will wait for the judgement of the experts).

For example, from bodybuilding.com in their forum about what "supplements" to take and how to combine them:

forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161239503

Not getting out of breath while riding your bike sounds pretty beneficial to me and the pharmacology reports around it (hightowerpharmacology.blogspot.com/2012/05/pharmacology-of-higenamine.html) suggest it is quite potent, the only limiting factor is that it has a very short half-life in your system.
  • + 4
 I agree with a lot of that but the graves interview did state that they just dont think about this stuff at the EWS (I think they should leave graves well alone at the moment too) and they are both quite dismissive about it being an issue.

Of course we all know that nobody will ever come clean if they have doped unless they are absolutely cornered and there is an argument that if you will take one drug to enhace performance it is a slippery slope to the stuff that really works - they are also not tested in the off-season.

It doesnt help that they have both been caught with the same 'drugs' and I suppose reaslistically are both what you would say are the more physical guys out there, when compared to Sam etc

I do agree though that the doping agencies seem to be a law unto themselves and applying the same ultra strict rules to racers in a series that are just not prepared to the same standards as other sports is a bit unfair, there is the argument that they should all know the rules but the banned list is probably exhaustive.

Hopefully they clear up the cases and the world returns to normal, its a bit of a boring one, would have been interesting if they had took EPO and had a vial of testosterone taped to the top-tube.
  • + 9
 Dude, amphetamines are the real deal.
  • + 48
 @mattwragg: Adding to this, the fact that Higenamine has such a short half-life in the body would suggest that at some point there was a much higher amount present than the trace amounts found at the time of testing. This study would suggest 10x the tested amounts were present 8h prior: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23085737
  • + 17
 I think that something with amphetamines in it will be miles more effective than caffeine. Also, 800mg of caffeine will f*ck you right up, that's way too much.

You've never done Addy on a heavy study day and gone for a ride as a break? It's the bees knees.
  • + 9
 @mattwragg: I definitely agree. Even if they are not very powerful substances if someone is using when others are not it will make a difference. Just imagine if ibuprofen was banned and you were the only person to pop some in day 2 of racing after a crash. You’d feel like a superhero.
  • - 3
 @grosey Nail on head
  • + 4
 Pretty sure smoking weed will have the opposite effect of the drugs they are accused of taking
  • - 1
 @mnorris122: 800mg of caffeine isn't a big deal. That's only about 8 8oz cups of coffee...
  • + 8
 In sports with real doping controls they actually do monitor things like caffeine, even ibuprofen is banned in competition. Fighters will abstain from coffee on the day of a fight and instead go for caffeine pills so that they know exactly how much is in their system and they don't lose a belt due to a particularly strong french-press. If you're attempting to run strict anti-doping controls in a sport, you have to look for this minuscule traces in an athlete's system. With the half-lives of some being what they are, post race they may have a negligible amount left in their piss, but at the start of 2 days worth of racing they may have had enough to gain a significant advantage. Remember, when it's the best of the best racing, the tinniest advantage can be the difference between winning and losing.
  • - 1
 @mattwragg: Yeah, didn't mean to say they don't have an effect or that I was (mis)informed. Just saying I was interested in being informed Wink . These rules were put in effect for a reason so I was curious whether there is some insight on what those reasons were. All food has an effect on ones performance. Some help with recovery, some with keeping you alert, hydrated etc. There is no rule to make athletes stick to whole foods so much of what they're taking is already not really comparable to what a "normal" (like non-pro athlete) person would take, probably for some (perceived) advantage. Where do they draw the line? Just giving an advantage seems a tricky criterium because I'm pretty sure that the athlete who gets water to drink will do loads better than the athlete who gets nothing to drink at all. And obviously that is the only athlete who gets caught because he'll be the only one who can actually deliver a piss sample.
  • - 1
 @vinay: There's a clear line between a supplement and drug. Supplements are naturally occurring and can be found in food. As far as where they draw the line, everything banned is clearly listed by WADA. There's no gray area.
  • + 1
 @skelldify: Thanks for the explanation. I didn't claim there was a gray area. The question wasn't what is on the WADA list. The question was, what is the criterium to make it onto that list? Now "can be found in food" can be a tricky one. Whatever you put in your food and consume along, becomes food. Did you mean "natural sourced" then, like non-synthetic. Now obviously much of what we find in our prepared food from the supermarket is synthetic so I doubt these would all be on that WADA list. Plus of course Higenamine is naturally sourced. Same goes for cannabinoids (which are on the WADA list). Heck, would someone even test positive from consuming hemp seed (which is quite healthy, actually)? Could be of course. I recall a good while ago an athlete was tested positive after consuming a bread roll covered with poppy seed.

So again, the question obviously isn't what's on the WADA list. The question is, what does it take for something to make it onto that WADA list?
  • + 1
 @vinay: "Criterium," hah.
  • - 1
 @mattwragg: you didn’t read that last link completely and you did minimum research on the product had you continued reading your last ypubhavs seen the last statement in the summary of the product which states the “relevancy of the compound will be hard to rationalize” the compound has minimum Benefit and you quoting dopes on a body building website is the furthest thing for proof. You don’t know what your talking about.
  • + 2
 @skelldify: wrong. There is no clear difference.
  • + 2
 @maxyedor: you said it “real doping controls” EWS didn’t have any controls. They relied on the host country. If you want to get grip on banned substances you test everyone and frequently. That’s not the case here and it won’t be moving forward. This is a big pile of bullshit. I know they’re guys on real PED’s like testosterone or EPO and they will be moving forward because the system of testing is so inadequate.
  • + 1
 @mattwragg: you are assuming they work as advertised.

If marketing = truth...

Bodybuilding.com is a website selling supplements with a forum so people can hype each other up and buy more supplements.
  • + 2
 @skelldify: they are not using amphetamines. Pinkbike has shit the bed with misinformation and terrible research (1min google search).

The stimulamt supplements that really worked have been banned for a decade or more.
  • + 1
 @mnorris122: go take that pre-workout and tell me its on par with adderall. Its not even close.
  • + 1
 Beta 2 agonists also increase testosterone levels, something that’s pretty handy for sports performance
  • + 3
 @vinay: To be on the prohibited list, a substance must meet two of the following criteria:
- The substance has the potential to enhance or enhances sport performance.
- The substance represents an actual or potential health risk to the athlete.
- Use of the substance violates the spirit of sport.

They take into account input from industry experts, athletes, doping specialists, scientists, medical professionals etc in order to come to conclusion regarding whether a substance should be on the prohibited list.

As far as the Cannabinoids go, some cannabinoids are on the prohibited list, where is others are not. As of January 1st 2018 Cannabidiol was removed from the prohibited list, yet THC and other cannabinoids remain on the list.
  • + 1
 @clink83: where the hell are you getting this jet fuel coffee?

Th average cup of coffee is 60-80mg of caffeine
  • + 1
 @APOLI: Thanks, that was a great answer to my question. Of course we could argue about the finer details of "the spirit of the sport" and where the tipping point would be for a supplement to go from an acceptable substance to "accelerate recovery" towards something that "gives an unfair advantage". But maybe it is in the WADA documentation too, I'll have to dig into that.

Either way, this is the ugly end of competitive sports. It isn't nice to be beaten by someone who's consciously been taking substances you've consciously not taken because they're banned. And it sucks to see your career being destroyed because they've found something in your system which you didn't consciously take. Damn, makes me like competitive sports even less.
  • + 1
 Just MAN UP and follow the RULES Or GTFO
  • + 2
 @sarah-maude: What's up with the "MAN UP" thing? (Former) cold war cases aside, women do (and should) follow the rules just as well as men do.
  • + 13
 The Ryno-Power connection is the much bigger issue at play. The fact that both tested for the exact same stimulants at the same race, use the same lawyer, and both differed to said lawyer when asked about supplements paints a pretty clear picture, in my opinion. I am a big fan of both these guys (get better soon, Jared), and you are responsible for you what you put into your body, but having a "sponsor" like Ryno-Power, I can see where these guys would make a relatively sound assumption that they were getting clean stuff that was cleared for their sport.

Ryno-Power's whole business model is making supplements for people that engage in cycling and moto, so it's in their best practice to ensure none of the blame goes anywhere near them.
  • + 3
 The amazing thing here is the advert flashing for Ryno on PB's homepage now - They are using this 'scandal' as marketing material.
  • + 1
 Whether the Ryno Power has banned substances in it or not, a professional athlete shouldn't be taking it if they don't know what's in it.

A great question for this interview would have been, "How effective is Ryno Power?"

"Damn, that shit really works!!" should be immediately followed by, "I wonder if it's legal."
  • + 9
 @justanotherusername: nothing sinister there. Just Google AdSense knowing that you've seen an article with that name in it and tailoring their message to suit, within the list of advertisers on the PB site. PB have already said that RynoPower are advertisers here.
  • + 1
 @cptmayhem: You may be right here but the banner space I saw occupied by their advert isnt usually populated by the adsense type advertisements that you see in the small box-type adverts out of prime-position.

This is a premium, home-page banner, the second largest advertisment spot on the website - is that possible to be an Adsense type showing or Ryno getting in quickly to push their product while the hompage is full of chat about it.
  • + 6
 Ryno Power most likely have all their supplements made by a small/medium size contractor, who themselves probably buy most of their shit from Sigma Aldrich, so I doubt Ryno Power have any clue what is in their supplements
  • - 2
 @fabdemaere: I have no idea how the supplement industry works, but to the point that Ryno Power has no idea what's in their products, that's the whole issue here isn't it? They make stuff supplements for use in cycling and use big name riders to promote it, riders that they probably just got caught "doping."

Why lawyers? If you're richie or Jared, just send in whatever stuff you've been taking to be tested, and say "this is what I took and it was supposed to be fine." Call me naive, but this doesn't really seem like there is a need for either of these guys to have a lawyer involved, unless Ryno Power is trying to cover their own ass through them.
  • + 0
 @JoshParsons87: You are naive. If god forbid, you ever end up in jail accused of a crime you definitely didn't commit, please please please plead the 5th until your lawyer shows up.

It sucks, but you need attorneys to navigate these processes not matter how innocent you are. That's just the world we live in.
  • + 3
 @pmhobson: Except they didn't commit a crime. They failed a test, and both accepted the findings. They are not arguing innocence, but are looking to be found "not liable."
  • + 1
 @justanotherusername: I get an ad for WD-40. There's no way I'm snorting that stuff, whether it's specifically banned or not.
  • + 0
 @JoshParsons87: I promise you an attorney will be able navigate the system to a "not liable" conclusion much better than they could.
  • + 15
 Great to have both sides of the story. Thanks Richie and Pinkbike. Btw, photos dont' have to be black and white, the world is colorful Wink
  • + 0
 Lie, deny, distract
  • + 12
 The “WADA doesn’t tell us” excuse really stretches credibility. www.wada-ama.org/en/content/what-is-prohibited
  • + 7
 Don't worry guys Ryno Power insists that their supplements are clean and that they have never had a supplement test positive for anything... I mean weird that two Ryno athletes both get nailed but clearly cant be the supplements... Their website has nothing about where the supplements are made or what labs they use so we should feel fine about their claims and promises.
  • + 9
 Jeez, they were notified in July, and still have to be notified about a hearing date. The French are quick to leak news, but slow with the hearing
  • + 6
 Sorry but I don't buy this accidental consumption. Having personally been subject to Wada doping control many years ago it's very simple to check if you can or can't use a specific substance or product. Google 100%me and you will fund all you ever needed to know
  • + 9
 Does @mikelevy not feel so bad about being humbled now huhh?
  • + 6
 This is just like when my buddy Randy got busted for using Fight Milk to win the 2017 Fontana City National downhill sport class 27 - 34. Lawyered right up, but still lost his title.
  • + 4
 I'm gonna start a campaign to test for 'performance Inhibiting drugs' such as alcohol, burger residue, chip fat, pie crust etc. If found to test positive you get your race time reduced. Makes perfect sense to me... I think that's more than fair !!
  • + 1
 This is genius.
  • + 1
 I wholeheartedly support this. Plus a -1 minute time cut per kid under 5 that the athlete owns.
  • + 7
 We can thank Lance Muddafuggin Armstrong for why any sane person would be skeptical.
  • - 17
flag onemanarmy Plus (Nov 26, 2018 at 10:43) (Below Threshold)
 They just made an example of him because the euro's couldn't handle getting spanked by an American. French are doing the same thing with the Ausi Graves and big surprise... another American in Rude. They go for the top dogs and they make examples out of them. This is what happens with all of this. When new things are instituted... or at the very least... enforced, they find the top dogs and they make examples out of them. If these two guys are on trace amounts of a banned substanced... all the elite riders are. Just like with Lance. They were ALL juicing back then. Just like with Bonds. Lance and Bonds just did it more successfully because they had a better foundation.
  • + 4
 I think we will see a transition period of a couple of years as riders become more appropriately sophisticated with diet and supplement choices. I definitely think Richie and Jared were trying to get a competitive advantage, but I think it was with supplements they probably thought, but didn't check to see were ok. This is a growing pains of the sport problem. They are going to have to learn from other athletes to be much more vigilant of what they put in their bodies. Organic food, no vitamins, no supplements is the only way to be safe. As for me, I don't juice because all I need to do is beat my riding buddies on a climb once a month when I'm slightly less hung over than they are and I feel physically dominant!
  • + 4
 If Richie's response came from a single rider who was middle of the pack, it might be somewhat believable. This is is Richie Rude, who when it comes to performance, exceeds the rest of the racers by a considerable margin and his former team mate, good friend and mentor since day one.. both testing positive for the same drugs and pleading the same ignorance.
  • + 7
 *Goes to Vital to look for rumors*
  • + 3
 I realize that they get their day to defend themselves but I’m not buying Richie and Jared’s responses. As a former roadie who watched all the Lycra greats fall, I felt like it was just a matter of time before the enduro athletes jumped on the doping train. These responses sound similar and why hire a top gun lawyer if you are innocent?

I hope I’m wrong but history has a way of repeating itself, especially when top athletes are competing for mere seconds.
  • + 4
 Thanks for that, just because there big names there should be no escape.
  • + 3
 You hire a top gun lawyer to help prove you’re innocent? That’s like step one for any accusation? You could be 100% innocent but if you can’t argue your case well enough you can be hit with the guilty charge.
  • + 2
 @treymotleyDH: @treymotleyDH: There is no such thing as accidentally having a banned substance in your food or supplements. Either your supplements contain banned substances and you picked them because of that or they don´t (Every pro athlete that competed at UCI races before is definitely informed about banned substances). There are no isomers contained that can turn itself into the banned substance or react with another ingredient into a banned substance and even if it could the output of the reaction would be so minimal, that you could not even detect it directly after consuming it.
Athletes that get tested positive after a full day of EWS racing definitely took something at the beginning of the day and hoped that there would be no drug test or, that the substance would be gone after a full day of EWS racing.
Just look at the video of Rude overtaking Oton in La Thuile in 2016. Oton is one of the top guys and Rude overtakes him on the climb like Oton is a privateer at his first race.
  • + 2
 @Freeracer17: Yup - nailed it. If it's in your system at end of day you took a day-of-competition stimulant.
  • + 1
 @Freeracer17: you’ve misinterpreted what I’ve said. I’m not denying that they were ignorant in what they were taking. I’m just saying hiring a good lawyer does not equal guilt. Otherwise everyone would not hire a lawyer to look innocent. Guaranteed if you got arrested and you were innocent the first thing you would do is hire a lawyer. That’s what I’m saying. I also think a lot of people are misinterpreting what they took as being on the same level as what Lance was doing. There were basically taking a banned substance sure. But it’s not the kind of substance that would give them super human strength. Just not be as tired at the end of the day. It’s not like graves and rude weren’t winning shit before the EWS. people are putting them on the same level as steroid users. It’s more like the college kid who took aderal to finish a paper. Sure it’s not fair but it’s not like they’re on the same page as someone who stole someone else’s project.
  • + 6
 Curious if this will move faster than Broc Tickles case.
  • + 3
 Broc Tickle
  • + 3
 @Xcshredder08: Seriously. It's a crime that they drag these things out so long.
  • + 3
 Why do people assume that since they're sponsored by Rhyno products that they don't also take supplements from other sources? You people must think there's actually redbull in the cans they drink after races.
  • + 5
 I thought Richie's late season charge was from the illegal SB150 stimulant.
  • + 3
 After knowing it in July, Richie still won in Ainsa in september and some other? So doubt he would take again anything to enhance after that so it proves he is really capa le of winning without them.
  • + 1
 It's even more concerning that Ryno can't even spell their own name correctly on their products.
  • + 2
 While I (and I'm sure MANY others) would absolutely LOVE to see RR race WC DH, it would suck if he did so because he was unable to race EWS next year because of this fricken test. Hopefully he and JG have success with their hearing(s)-and more importantly JG kicks the SHIT out of cancer.
  • + 2
 I truly believe Richie and Jared.

However the fact they're on separate teams but share a lawyer makes me think that Ryno is behind this. Especially since Richie hasn't talked to them? And Graves can't answer a question about ingredients? I could be very wrong in this but I would guess that a lawyer representing a rider in this situation would be from their team, and the only connection these guys have is Ryno, or so it seems. So if Ryno lawyer'ed up for these guys it's almost making me think they know what's going on.
  • + 3
 Thankfully CS-M9100 is available in 10-51. Would be embarassing if his 2019 bike check showed he dropped that 36t chainring. Wink
  • + 2
 Pages and pages of more examples of mountaibikedouchebagery.......dig and fix trails....ride bikes.....have fun.....relax and enjoy......quit taking pedal biking so seriously....... CM!
  • + 2
 Do they both use the same trainer? Quite possible their trainer is supplying them unknowingly to increase their results to make him look better so he can still more non bike specific workout plans and equipment......
  • + 1
 The both eat Taco Bell before each race. A LOT OF BAJA BLAST!!
  • + 3
 I think Ryno is clean, look at all the WC riders they have. If the UCI runs that many tests, I'm sure something would have come up before this.
  • + 1
 Means nothing. It takes one weird inproper cleaning at the lab and all of a sudden trace elements of a band substance are found. This could be yet another time supplement companies are the cause of test coming up positive for a banned substance. We will have to wait and see!
  • + 5
 He's still a gun; hang in there Richie.
  • + 4
 Can someone explain why Rude and Graves would both opt not to get the B sample tested?
  • + 3
 Because they have already accepted that the two substances are in the A sample, there's no need testing the second one.
  • + 6
 @Maxcommencemal: But they both said they were surprised with the result of the A sample.
  • + 2
 @ThinkTank45: probably the lawyer's recommendation.
  • + 24
 Because the test is much more in depth with the B sample and will find even more.
  • + 2
 @ThinkTank45: Surprised they got caught is probably more like it. I'm sure they use things away from events for short periods that they try to cut out far enough ahead of time it shouldn't show up in a test.
  • + 1
 Can you identify Mr Kaiser? Is Rude retaining Kaiser Dillon in New York, or has he gone straight for the hardcore doping-allegation specialists at Global Sports Advocates? He presumably insisted that counsel was in on the interview? :-)
  • + 1
 Anyone keen for 2Gs of this peng Ryno sniff? lol
rynopower.com/collections/supplements/products/motivation
"I noticed that when I take this stuff my focus is unreal." - from reviews on their website. Yeh no shit bro. pure Oxilofrine. ha jk
  • + 2
 safer to just buy a pair of carbon wheels and more bling for my bike to inspire my confidence. plus my wife likes it 100% rock hard, not 60% stiffness.
  • + 4
 I'm about to get me some Oxilofrine
  • + 1
 Please stop pulling a Lance Armstrong denial - face up - You doped, you know it - people who deny the science is beyond me. If you can't compete on raw strength through training and talent, step aside.
  • + 2
 Im pretty positive that if this stands, Richie will be banned from all UCI sanctioned races... So, WC DH will be out of the question..
  • + 2
 But, since it had, allegedly, been taking place in a pre-UCI EWS will the organization have power to sanction them? If not applicable, this might also be a warning shot to all of the participants out there:"OK guys, the old west era of our sport has finished. Clean up or move along."
  • + 2
 @jollyXroger: Yes, because they both had a UCI license to race in the EWS, they are bound by the rules and regulations of the UCI.
  • + 1
 @chillescarpe: In that case situation is getting seriously uncomfortable for Richie.
  • + 1
 Generally, any group that abides by WADA guidelines enforces a doping suspension, even in a different sport... But, since most cycling events fall under UCI, Richie will have time for more cool edits...
  • + 0
 What I find interesting is that their is no way that these riders would have deliberately taken banned substances, but prelonged use of supplement could change your bodies, as the point of training & supplements is to change your body for the better & experimentation could lead to your body to synthesize higher levels of chemicals, so without a lab difficult to know?
But hope these things can get cleared up as no good for racing
  • + 1
 the ews hasn't " made it fully aware for us" ?? its more like, when you have a uci card, things change...its now a time for Becoming fully aware, dude.
but yeah, these are probly good drugs,...
  • + 1
 Kaiser is a legit lawyer, a smart choice that reflects the high stakes here. He's a DC white collar criminal defense guy, not a sports guy. They're taking this seriously, as they should.
  • + 9
 Maybe, but how can you be sure. There's the DC Matt Kaiser, and there's this Matt Kaiser, whose practice is explicitly to represent athletes. globalsportsadvocates.com/lawyers/matthew-d-kaiser. Seems more likely that it's him.
  • + 1
 Yes, you're right, it sure does.
  • + 1
 Yeah, I just had a look at this. I reckon it's going to be the guy who looks 19 and specialises in getting doped cyclists back to competition.
  • + 2
 Are there any athletes that have admitted to doping at the first time of asking?
I love RR but guilty or not he is now tainted.
  • + 2
 When your lawyer answers for you...we can start wondering what did happen...?
  • + 3
 "parts per billion", must be fine then.
  • + 2
 Anyone follow Yoann Barelli on FB? his last post casts another shadow on the whole "race clean" illusion
  • + 1
 A shadow on him or others?
  • - 1
 You pay a dietitian and or a trainer to tell you what to put in your body to make you perform at the highest level. I’d prefer to point the finger at those folks and say “you had one job...” before we chastise two of the sports biggest names.
  • + 2
 Graves 186 comments, Rude 182, competitive even off the bike.
  • + 1
 Bring back the old days...keep it simple...Coffee to get you going...weed to calm you down...end of story. Smile
  • + 2
 I wonder if the riders in Friday Fails have been tested for anything.
  • + 1
 Who cares! just smoke crystal meth shoot heroin and ride bikes.
  • + 1
 Leave it to the French....
  • + 1
 Obviously,The Russians must be involved.
  • - 1
 I am more interested in a “all drugs allowed” EWS. Would be a better show.
  • + 1
 I want these drugs!
  • - 1
 A golden interview! I hope he finds his justice and gets to keep shredding hard! RideOn!
  • - 1
 Suckers got found out don't take drug kids hahahaha
  • + 0
 vital?
  • + 6
 www.vitalmtb.com
  • - 1
 Dirty sport
  • - 2
 Yeah drug doping is bad, but have you seen that guy manual?
  • - 1
 You think he can manual that good without taking drugs?! REALLY!! You're so naive @Sethroski ....
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