It's Alive: Santa Cruz Reveals the V10 29er

Apr 26, 2017
by Mike Kazimer  
Press Release

Santa Cruz V10 29 Photo Santa Cruz Bicycles

It's true. There's a 29er V10, and the Syndicate will be racing it this weekend at Lourdes. Although the move to 29-inch wheels has been riling comments sections and forums for months (#26isdefinitelydeadnow), the writing's on the wall. Tracks are faster, times are tighter, and eking another second out of a 4-minute track can be the difference between a World Cup win and missing the podium entirely. Keeping the Syndicate in the hunt every season takes a ton of time and energy, but downhill racing is not only the most exciting racing going, it's also where new products and technology are tested to their limit.

It comes as no surprise that Greg Minnaar was the driving force behind this project. "I raced the Hightower at the Enduro World Series in Finale Ligure, Italy, last October, and it just held so much speed," explains Greg. "That's when I knew we had to come back to the 29er V10 idea."


bigquotesI raced the Hightower at the Enduro World Series in Finale... I knew we had to come back to the 29er V10 idea. Greg Minnaar

Jason Marsh, Greg's mechanic, points out that, "We'd looked at doing a 29er V10 a few years ago, but the fork options available at the time wouldn't stand up to World Cup racing. Greg's experience in Finale got the project off the shelf and back into development. FOX gave us a critical piece of the puzzle when they delivered a prototype 40 for us to test on a modified Hightower. Our first test session aboard that Hightower showed consistently faster times on the bigger wheels, we all decided we had to go for it. Then the real work began. We machined a few different sets of links, welded up three aluminum swingarms, and did more testing. As the riders got on terms with the new bikes, they got even faster. We played with linkages and shocks to achieve different angles, travel, and leverage ratios until Greg felt happy with setting everything in stone."

But ideas don't get set in stone around here. They get set in carbon. And in order to race a carbon bike at Lourdes, we needed to start manufacturing by mid-January. Nick Anderson, our head engineer, finished the design in early January and sent it to our carbon factory to get the tooling machined. "We're fortunate enough to co-own our own carbon manufacturing facility, which gives us bandwidth to indulge in this kind of project," Nick says. "I don't think it would have been possible without this kind of partnership."


Santa Cruz V10 29 Photo Santa Cruz Bicycles

"While the manufacturing was spinning up, we sat down with the Syndicate partners to make sure we could get the bits we needed by late March or early April," says Nick. "Fox had race-ready forks in the pipeline, and ENVE was on board to build some 29-inch M90s. Maxxis delivered bigger versions of the Syndicate's preferred tires, and Chris King's Buzzworks group whipped up some custom headsets to bring the geometry in line. It sounds simple enough, but the reality was anything but. The upshot is that, thanks to everyone's ability to move quickly on product development, we were able to go from frame concept to race-ready bike over just a couple months, with a few weeks left over for final testing."

In one particular case, a technological leap by one manufacturer forced a quick counter by another. Fox altered the brake mount location on the 40's lowers to accommodate ‘Boost' flange spacing, which meant a standard 20x110mm DH hub wouldn't work—Chris King machined a one-off design they call ISO-AB (Asymmetric Boost) to get everything in sync.


Santa Cruz V10 29 Photo Santa Cruz Bicycles

bigquotesWe were able to go from frame concept to full-carbon race-ready bike over just a couple months Nick Anderson

Although it seems like the new race bike is a radical departure, the intent is the same as it ever was. Every iteration of the V10 was built to be faster than the one that came before, and the results began to speak for themselves during testing, to the disbelief of one of the new recruits.

"Greg practically forced me to try the bike," reveals Loris Vergier. "I tried it once in testing, but went straight back to my original 27.5 inch bike because that's what felt fastest across the length of the test track. But Greg insisted I give the 29er another shot. So I did, and I felt like it was still slower. The clocks don't lie though, and I was consistently posting quicker times on the new bike compared to the old—and this was on my local track! That's when I realized the new bike was deceptively quick."


bigquotesI was consistently posting quicker times on the new bike compared to the old—and this was on my local track! Loris Vergier

In contrast, Luca Shaw took straight to it. "Psychologically I think it really helped that the bike already looked refined, straight off the bat," says Luca. "The swingarm and links are custom, and they're mated to a production V10 front triangle. Loris and I are riding bikes with 190mm of travel, and Greg's got 210 because the XXL frame has more room."

While the guys were testing, Nick was working through the final pieces of the puzzle. "We needed to sit the bike into the travel to compensate for the BB height change created by the larger wheel diameter, and the guys at Chris King were able to make us a Buzzworks headset that then corrected the resulting change to the head angle" he says. "We also had to reduce the travel to maintain tire clearance at bottom out, which then meant we had to change the shock rate progression to maintain good suspension feel. The leverage curve is similar to the existing V10, but the leverage ratios have been modified slightly." Expect links and headsets to change over the course of the season as the riders keep working toward their ideal setups.

Santa Cruz V10 29 Photo Santa Cruz Bicycles

The V10 has racked up more World Cup wins than any downhill bike in history. It was the first full carbon fiber bike to win a World Cup, and ironically it was also the last 26-inch bike to win one, too. So where does that leave 27.5"?

It's still early days for 29-inch wheels in downhill and there will always be "horses for courses." At the end of the day, we want to win races. So if any of our riders feel more comfortable in particular conditions or on certain courses with 27.5" wheels that's what they'll ride. Greg, Luca, and Loris are riding the new bike in Lourdes on April 30th because that's what they feel most confident on. The V10 has always been about pushing technology in pursuit of speed, and we're simply continuing that tradition today. The new bike is another leap forward in the progression of carbon downhill bikes and we're excited to be leading the charge.



Santa Cruz V10 29 Photo Santa Cruz Bicycles

556 Comments

  • + 609
 #27point5aintdead
  • + 91
 #andwhatabout26?
  • + 85
 @pakleni: after 3 days they resurrected
  • + 22
 Is now
  • + 66
 I'd like to see a #V1029er try and get down the steep twists and turns of Champery or Schladming quicker than a 26" or 27.5" bike.
  • + 22
 The future of the DH World Cup is almost upon us cdn.grindtv.com/uploads/2013/04/downhill-eric-barone.jpg #whoneedsbumps
  • + 16
 @heavyp or the old Maribor. #f*ckthenewDHtracks #enduroisthenewDH
  • + 2
 @heavyp: Eric Barone uses a 27,5 front, and a 29er rear, on his sick/mad bike....
  • + 48
 @heavyp: I find that I hit tight turns soooo much faster on my 29er trail bike wayyy quicker than any of my previous 27.5, more traction, quicker into the turns, holding more speed through em.
  • - 44
flag bulldog6485 (Apr 26, 2017 at 4:20) (Below Threshold)
 How are the smaller racers gonna handle bikes this size and weight ? Make no mistake they will be heavier than a 26 or 27.5 made from the same materials. How will they handle big air in gusty conditions. I can't wait to see a 29in taco from a botched landing or case that would have been shrugged of by a smaller wheel. An advantage is only an advantage if you're the only one using it.
TBH I can't remember the last time I saw a taco but I think they could make a comeback.
  • + 45
 @heavyp: 29ers aren't slow in the corners anymore. We have geometry for that and they do get more grip and roll faster...
  • + 5
 @heavyp: willing to bet it would
  • - 6
flag randybadger (Apr 26, 2017 at 4:47) (Below Threshold)
 @bulldog6485: you are talking a lot of sense.
Only last month I taco'd my front wheel on my enduro 29 at stiniog after being blown off course in the air.
I like my 29er though and it benefits elsewhere but I think you might be right. I think there might be puncture issues and buckling issues but I bet when they are fast they willl be very fast
  • + 18
 @heavyp: that is what people said about "long and slack" downhill bikes 5 years ago :-)
  • + 13
 @bulldog6485: smaller riders should use a bike that fits them like a 26" wheeled size small. simple, ride what you're fastest on.
  • + 82
 I hope one of these wins by 1.5 seconds...
  • + 68
 @heavyp: It's a tool in their toolbox, not a wife they're stuck with.
  • + 26
 Climbs like a goat, descents like a 29" v10
  • + 13
 @aushred: Agreed, especially on the newer geo 29ers with shorter stays.. Never have issues on tight twisties...
  • - 1
 @torero: Fer shizzle!
  • + 12
 @lucas20-p: gyroscopic effect doesn't care about geometry of your frame
  • + 5
 @heavyp: it will or they wouldn't do it.
  • - 16
flag vernonjeff (Apr 26, 2017 at 6:33) (Below Threshold)
 @michaelhowie: I really wish instead of f*cking around with the tire sizes they would put their efforts into getting the price of manufacturing down so that the shareholders could make a few more dollars.
  • + 4
 @heavyp: Champery and Schladming aren't on the schedule this season, silly...
  • + 15
 Just remember, marketing is like politics. The system only moves forward via carefully orchestrated outrage. They want thousand's of Pinkbike accounts logging into this and arguing about a bunch of wheel size nonsense. I bet they're even banking on a handful of lurkers making accounts just to add their two cents. It's all bullshit.
  • - 17
flag cauboi (Apr 26, 2017 at 6:41) (Below Threshold)
 ''look mommy! a welded Santa Cruz wc bike '' '' don't get used to that beauty, son''
  • + 23
 @cauboi: you should actually read the article.
  • + 3
 @heavyp: don't worry, they either change the venues or change the track. same think that has been happening with xc in order to justify full suspensions.
  • + 16
 Poor Loris trying hard to defend 650b. But he got bills to pay.
  • - 11
flag cauboi (Apr 26, 2017 at 6:58) (Below Threshold)
 @lccomz: alloy for proto, carbon for the masses I know...sigh
  • + 11
 @cauboi: no, the earliest prototypes had alloy rear ends, the bikes they are racing this weekend are full carbon. That was the part of the article where they discussed co-owning the carbon facing in Asia and were able to get that done quite quickly (in the span of 2 months). Really, read the article, it's a good one...
  • + 11
 @bigburd: Gyroscopic effect of larger wheels is vastly overstated.

Have you seen those 60kg Moto GP riders lean those 150kg bikes over at 200kph? Impossible!
  • + 4
 @heavyp:
Mountain biking needs homologation rules
Like supercross.if you don't sell a certain number to the public then you can't race it.

We've always had works bikes for the pros

But things are getting outta hand . And people in mountain biking just keep taking it .
  • + 6
 @heavyp: It isn't just the wheel size, it's the geometry, wheel base length, rider's strengths... the whole package. The article says '27.5 will be better on certain tracks and 29" will be better on others. It's right there in the type.
  • + 16
 @heavyp: UCI WC DH isn't 'Crankworx Speed and Style', it's about who gets down the track the fastest. #alwayshasalwayswill
  • + 7
 @torero: "old" Maribor... yeah the track UCI WC doesn't use. Great point. ???
  • + 0
 @CaptainSnappy:

I'm sure there gonna be travelling with both bikes to see what's fastest for each track

Sadly I think this will just make the tracks more of a straight line with less tech

I like progression but not at the sacrifice of good racing
  • + 5
 @bulldog6485: I think you make a great point on that smaller riders fit 27.5 or 26 inch wheels better, but for anyone over 6 foot 29 just works and fits way better
  • + 0
 @lccomz: Im not convinced by that. Given that santa cruz is owned by the Dutch company Pon and there are only 3 factories in Taiwan that make all the carbon frames for every one then at best Pon have a stake in the carbon production company.
  • + 6
 @jclnv:
www.newstatesman.com/science/2013/08/we-still-don’t-really-know-how-bicycles-work
So gyroscope forces are the whole story...
Bikes are a scientific mystery!!
  • + 1
 @rippinrob: Crazy eh!
  • + 4
 the age of straight lines down the mountain
  • + 3
 @MTBrent: 2.9 seconds. ;
>.
  • - 5
flag rnm410 (Apr 26, 2017 at 11:00) (Below Threshold)
 @heavyp: I'm sure it's a steeper head tube angle than its 27.5 or 26er counterpart to keep the steering quick, or that's the case for 29ers I buy - the good ones... I don't like slack 29er's. Anyways... 26 for life.
  • + 0
 @cauboi: The way it should be!
  • + 1
 @chrismac70: you have no idea what you are talking about.
  • + 2
 27.5+ IS dead though
  • + 3
 @IllestT: Not a chance. They're selling like hot cakes in the US.
  • + 1
 @GrandesRoues: other way around
  • + 4
 @MTBrent: Luke Strobel from Evil has already raced Evil's The Wreckoning 29er, with a 29 prototype Fox 40, last season in a few DH races and won by quite a margin! reviews.mtbr.com/prototype-29er-fox-40-mounted-on-evil-wreckoning-spy-shot/luke-strobel-evil-wreckoning-fox-40-29er-prototype
  • + 1
 @bohns1: I'm loving my Honzo ???? short stay​s and switch back approved.
  • + 1
 @rippinrob: There's a TED talk on this subject. Actually quite fun if you're into bikes. Like we all are.
  • + 1
 @pakleni: We tend to keep them in the parks.
  • + 1
 @maxetak: can u throw up the link to this?
  • + 2
 @jclnv: those 60kg Motor GP riders can lean those 150kg bikes because of a little thing called an engine. If you put those GP bikes with no engine on a hill with the same grade as a DH mtb do you think they would be able to lean the same? I think not. But I'm no physicist I could be wrong.
  • + 0
 @bartender: I can't read that without laughing my ass off.
  • + 1
 @lucas20-p: It was more aimed at the acceleration of a bigger wheel, remember back in the day everyone for dual slalom went 24" wheels for quicker acceleration ?
A 29" wheel carries more speed once up to speed I get that but it harder to get going so if you have twists and turns like the tracks I mentioned and say get hung up in a corner or a slight wrong line surly its going to take a bit to get the thing going again over a 26"/27.5"
  • + 220
 That bike is simply massive. I can't wait to see this warship coming down the courses.
  • + 43
 It looks all round badass. I bet it's a monster.
  • + 17
 @HobNob: It will make for a very interesting season if the times are quick.
  • + 20
 Neither can I. Skip a lecture to go study for an exam and then happen to click on my pinkbike tab, no more study.
  • - 4
flag fr3er1d3r (Apr 26, 2017 at 2:45) (Below Threshold)
 Being 6 tall and on the XL frame size of bikes, I bet a 29" would actually fit be about as relatively as a medium or small would for someone in that size range. Not entirely...but it's something to factor in.

I don't really ride DH bikes anymore since it stopped being fun but I hope to try one of these sometime!
  • + 21
 26'er downhill courses are too smooth for 29'er .. we need 29 inches pebbles
  • + 5
 Totally agree, it will be an absolute beast....

I don't feel so bad as to what I built near 5 years ago.... took a while to come around. ????

www.pinkbike.com/u/whafe/album/Current-Ride---Nicolai
  • + 0
 @whafe: mate!! Been a while ????
  • + 13
 Big framed 29er DH bikes make a lot of sense for tall riders like Minaar. I always thought he looked cramped, even on the largest 650B frames.
  • + 6
 Ya that v-10 is wheelie big! :0
  • + 8
 No doubt Gee be grabbing his Session29r
  • + 2
 @fartymarty: they are faster...to the point where things will get intereating. We're talking 1-3seconds faster.
  • - 13
flag jclnv (Apr 26, 2017 at 7:30) (Below Threshold)
 @excavator666: Wheel size has nothing to do with frame size.
  • + 3
 @jclnv: tell that to norco, who size their wheels according to frame size. It just makes sense. Being 6 ft tall with legs long enough for an XL the 29in wheels just feel normal. 650 always felt like it was small
  • + 3
 @JacksonTM: Apart from stack height there is zero difference in sizing and geo between wheel sizes.

430mm rear centre is as short as any bike needs and 29" can get there.

There are just so many examples of 5'6" riders like Katy Winton who race at the top level on 29".
  • + 4
 @jclnv: My point is, some brands, like norco, buck that and actually do change other things in the sizing. Smalls will use 27.5 larges will use 29. A small rider can certainly benefit from the larger wheel size, it still rolls over better, but it might be harder to leverage. I doubt Winton struggles with it since she is fit as but for mere mortals having frame sizes and wheel sizes work together can be appealing.
  • + 2
 @jclnv: Well... They used to anyway, can't seem to find it on their website haha maybe it wasn't Norco doing it
  • + 1
 @JacksonTM: No worries. I see what you're getting at.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: Other than looking like a bear on a circus bike! 29 all day long for my lanky ass!
  • + 1
 @cikudh: I have never observed a 26 foot or a 29 foot wheel.
  • + 1
 @HobNob: it does? I think it looks like the same v10, but with wagon wheels
  • + 2
 @JacksonTM I was on a shop team where the owner put young and short riders racing 29ers to prove they were suitable for all sizes. One rider got an EWS podium.
  • + 1
 @NotDannyHart: I think they are fine for all sizes. I'm a huge fan and started riding on a 29. I guess my main point is that big wheels can be nimble for big people and it makes sense to keep the bikes handling consistent through sizes to have like an xxs be a smaller wheel size
  • + 1
 If your a tall rider like Greg these big wheels make sense. Im 5'7, there is no way I'd be comfortable on a 29 dh bike.
  • + 0
 @dennisbarrera: im 6'3 185lb, thoroughly dislike 29er trail bikes, can't imagine I'd want a 29er dh

If they are faster on some tracks, racers will use them...end of story. Has nothing to do with comfort or ride enjoyment

Really hope that it doesn't become a standard, but it seems it's on its way....
  • + 1
 @nvranka: more a case using what could give you a win, racing trends don't always reach mainstream.
  • + 1
 @nvranka: The reason they're faster is because they're more comfortable going faster on them.
  • + 1
 @excavator666: that wholly depends on what type of track....
  • + 145
 If its stupid and it works, it ain't stupid
  • + 6
 You'd just imagine there was some kind of mean tour bump size that they could figure out the best tire diameter with. The answer is really, "the biggest that still handles well" I think.
  • - 28
flag passwordpinkbike (Apr 26, 2017 at 4:39) (Below Threshold)
 If its stupid and it works, it ain't gay!
  • + 8
 In 5 years 80% of MTB will be 29". If it works better for XC and DH why not?
  • + 11
 @EKrum: because faster is not always = better. I value fun and feel more highly.
  • + 14
 @tomlynchwatson: but wait... if fast = fun but fast doesn't = better... and better dosent equal fun you say... I'm confused. I'm going riding
  • + 6
 @tomlynchwatson: i feel more highly too
  • + 3
 @tomlynchwatson: which I still get on my 29er..
  • + 1
 @bohns1: sure thats fine for you. but Ekrum said if it works "better" why not. I gave a reason why not...
I think JacksonTM has it all figured out tbh though
  • + 116
 29'' DH bikes and I'm still riding my 26'' Scott Gambler jajajaja.
I need to talk to my boss. I don't earn enough money to keep up with the MTB industry fashions pace

#27point5aintdead
  • + 12
 Share the same feeling and wheel size!! :-D
  • - 4
flag torero (Apr 26, 2017 at 3:18) (Below Threshold)
 Las bicicletas nuevas tienen pinta de ser demasiado grandes en todos los aspectos para disfrutar de ciertas cosas, como derrapar o bajar por trochas técnicas y estrechas. Echo de menos los tiempos de Ironhorse Sunday y de Honda Rn01...
  • + 22
 Yup, I am still a very happy camper on my 26" Nomad C.
  • + 32
 Just because a WC rider might be fastest on a 29 inch DH bike doesn't mean it's best for everyone. If the average rider ran their suspension as hard and rebound heavy as a pro it wouldn't end well. Run what you brung and get sideways. Shit I want that bike though
  • + 6
 @torero: This broadly translates as "F*ck me that bike is big, how will it fit on the trails?"
  • + 0
 It's not fashion if it makes the bike faster.
  • + 5
 26" on my Banshee, I'm waiting to upgrade to the new 30" hoops, they are not just better than 29" by a long shot , it's also a nice even number.
  • + 3
 U don't need to. Ride what u got and then when you do get a new ride I bet u will be happy about a lot of the things PBers b*itch about. Better brakes, droppers, drivetrains, wheels, etc.
  • + 3
 @LuvAZ: I just was trying to be funny! I love my Scott Gambler 26''.....and I'll tell you a secret: my Enduro it's also 26'' !!!

#26aintdead !!!!!
  • + 117
 If they keep using motorway tracks then obviously the answer is bigger wheels and longer bikes. Wanna mix in a few tight and steep tracks.
  • + 16
 Sorry, meant to up- not down-vote. Could two PBers help me out?
  • + 78
 This is such BS. Most of the tracks on the WC calendar are gnarly af. Look at Lourdes where they are debuting the 29er, it's steep and the rock garden section the (wall) is ridiculous. Most people on this forum wouldn't even make it down, much less be able to race it.

Yes it's fast. It's DH racing, it's supposed to be fast! Leave the 90 degree off-camber switchbacks and tight narrow singletrack to Enduro. DH course should be steep, gnarly, fast and wide with multiple line options.
  • - 9
flag DirtMcGuirk07 (Apr 26, 2017 at 6:38) (Below Threshold)
 YEp that's it..UCI is in coots with the Mtb industry. Time to hand it over to Redbull.
  • - 8
flag BDKR (Apr 26, 2017 at 6:59) (Below Threshold)
 @dthomp325: If we are really going to "Leave the 90 degree off-camber switchbacks and tight narrow singletrack to Enduro", then our view DH (as absolutely bitchin as it is) is even more divorced from MTB reality than I thought.

I never thought I'd say this, but perhaps #enduroisthenewdh!
  • + 9
 @BDKR: when was WC DH ever tight and slow? I must have missed that year. We have had years with some dumbed down park courses, but the past couple of years have been jammed packed with awesome steep tech.

Heck, I've ridden the 90's WC courses here in CO. They aren't nearly as steep and gnarly as today's courses, but even back then they weren't tight and narrow, they were fast.
  • + 5
 @dthomp325: Yup, everybody looks at wide tape and thinks "smooth", for some reason. Watch the track walk video from Lourdes...it's almost unrideable.
  • + 4
 @dthomp325: I never said anything about tight and slow.

But you need things like off camber switchbacks to keep it tough. Hafjell has one of those and it caught Loic Bruni out in 2013.

And I don't believe that you can call sections of Val Di Sole (which broke off a lot of cats last year!) anything other than narrow.

Your comment made it sound like we should turn everything into groomed moto tracks.
  • - 2
 @dthomp325: most of the 90s was raced on fireroads.
  • - 1
 And yes, tracks are getting less technical and more wide open. This is my view based on:

Going to St Anne for WC weekend many times since 2002

The words that come from the people racing.
  • + 1
 @BDKR: I love enduro! But saying enduroisthenewdh is just wrong.
  • + 1
 lol at getting a downvote for pointing out the fact that the 90s was pretty much fire road racing and very tame compared to the 2000s. People are snowflakes these days, can't handle the facts or the words from the pros mouths.
  • + 2
 I think the point is really about the type of riding that we as riders want to see. Almost all WC tracks have some portions that are insanely technical, but if riders can play it safe on gnar and work back to a podium spot on the 'motorway' by running a trail bike, wagon wheels, or a dropper post it really detracts from the core excitement of the sport. As DH fans we want the most fearless and technically skilled riders on the podium.
  • + 2
 @scriz: only the wankers who've never raced or witnessed a WC would disagree with you. Even the PROS THEMSELVES are stating this. But hey, those teens sure know all about WC's, seeing as they watch them on the toob in moms basement and see a DH course that's harder than anything they've ridden and assume it's super hard for the pros who are stating it isn't.

/rant.
  • + 60
 This is merely a distraction in the wait for Claudio's first preview of the year. Refresh. Refresh. Refresh.
  • + 0
 I hope he wont be riding a 29er....
  • + 6
 @thedriftisreal: I do.. That would be sick af!
  • + 45
 Game on!!

Regardless of thoughts on wheel size it is awesome to see the progression in the sport and brands all pushing to develop and support an idea like that. Shows how healthy the sport is and it's drive to get better and better. (better in DH racing means faster...period).
  • - 4
flag Padded (Apr 26, 2017 at 1:32) (Below Threshold)
 Of course it's nice, but the sad part is that we'll probably see less and less DH bikes. We all know it's becoming a niche market with all the hype and technology of enduro bikes.

Going from 26" DH bikes to 27,5" put brands like Evil, Knolly, Turner, Yeti and more out of the DH market and there is big chances that 29" DH bikes will make other brands give up. Only DH bikes we'll see in the upcoming years will probably be coming from Spesh, Canyon, Santa, YT, Trek, Giant, Commencal and that's it (more or less).

That V10 is seriously good looking though!
  • + 23
 @Padded: Nonsense. brands will adapt to whatever sells.
  • + 4
 @Justmatthew: Do you think 29" DH bikes would sell more than 27,5" DH bikes?
  • + 4
 @Padded: I see your point, but actually I think the issue is those brands being represented on the big stage that will stop them being produced not a change in standards.

The cost of sending a team and rider must be phenomenal and therefore smaller brands can't get that representation at the top end. There will always be lots of niche brand DH bikes. Yeti must have the resources to build DH bike of any given standard, but have decided to focus on the enduro scene with their team. I presume they could not afford both enduro & DH team and therefore focussed on the bigger market to them and their bikes....though maybe that is agreeing with your first statement...now I have confused myself!

Anyhoo, its fun!
  • + 3
 @timmo8: Without talking about teams (Lapierre for example stop sending a world cup team right after their new DH bike unveiling) the development-production costs/sales ratio for a DH bike is way higher than for an enduro bike. That's why we've seen brands giving up with DH bikes. A lot of them had either no team or a national team but were in the business for years before enduro trend and 27,5" DH bikes...
  • + 0
 Yep,the game is on...MTB is a kid compared to road,touring,cyclocross,conmuter,cargo bicycles, That Kid is like the real kids,the know howto use technology to go fast.
  • + 0
 @Padded: DH bikes only pay the bill in "world cup brands". I think it´s not so easy to sell a DH bike or Enduro one,maybe Santacruz is the only one brand who sells V10 DH bikes really well over the rest of his bikes. Santacruz is an off road brand whit a lot of history in terms of MTB. Those bikes are everywhere here(I think people sold his soul to take those expensive bikes but...), if you see 10 high end bikes maybe 4 or 5 are SC. Other brands maybe have a really good DH bike but at the end,they loose money on those models. I think only YT (same philosophy but more aggressive marketing) and Trek (well they have the money...) are really focused and put the money over the table in DH scene.
  • + 3
 @homerjm: True, but big brands can easily dedicate let's say one or two engineers and some money to adapt bikes to new standards and stuff. Small brands can't. That's why a lot of them are giving up with DH.

Actually I really think that nowadays the amount of people really taking advantage riding a DH instead of an enduro bike is small. Enduro bikes are so capable, just have a look to EWS, crazy speed everywhere.
A few people really need a DH bike out there, but if you just had to design one (which means only one mould) then even small brands would have their own model. The problem is standards changing every now and then.
  • + 2
 @homerjm: you would see more mondraker and orbea if they were as cool as santa cruz.
If it aint american, it wont sell in spain...
  • + 1
 "Regardless of thoughts on wheel size it is awesome to see the progression in the sport and brands all pushing to develop and support an idea like that. "

Really? Is this really what we call progression? Bigger wheels. It's not exactly rocket science. Also since when is faster better simply because it is faster. Formula One cars are now 10 seconds quicker than they were in 2001 but if you watch the races from back then they don't look any slower. If anything they look much faster because they are more on the edge and ragged. A modem Formula One car is faster but duller than ever before. The only difference is that in Formula One the safety technology has come along with it. With these new bikes guys are going to be going faster with no increase in skill or effort. It just seems pointless and increases the risk of injury even further. The bikes will probably look slower on the TV feed too.

I don't see why things like wheel size can't be mandated by UCI. These bikes will not be more fun or more exciting to watch than the old ones...therefore what is the point?
  • + 2
 @Padded: Agree with that
  • + 15
 @humoroususername: In DH racing faster is progression, it is a race against the clock, therefore faster is better.

Winning is the point, not looking faster.
  • + 5
 @humoroususername: Well, you're overlooking the point entirely and then asking what it is. The point is; a faster time. That's what wins these world cups!

I'm not even going to engage in any argument about what is fun. That's entirely subjective and not really the point when it comes to world cup. Get or watch what's fun and stimulating for you! But saying the industry is wack when it's doing exactly what the world cup is demanding of it...I don't know what to say.
  • + 3
 @Padded: No, absolutely not. hence , it being nonsense to think you'll see less DH bikes because of an extra wheels size option. Brands will continue to supply according to the demand. IF that happens to shift to 29 over time, then brands will adapt to fill demand. Any company worth their salt will adapt.
  • + 2
 @Justmatthew: I didn't say "you will see less DH bikes", I said "you'll see less DH bikes brands" that's different.

And "adapting" is not only a word man, for carbon frames it's probably not far from a 5 numbers figure... of course Specialized, Santa and many more can adapt, but not smaller brands, and don't get me wrong, Evil, Knolly and others stopped producing DH bikes just when the industry jumped into the 27,5 boat.

I just think that stepping to 29" DH bikes will maybe discourage the few small brands that decided to follow the 27,5" trend. Maybe some of them have even not made their 27,5 bikes tooling profitable yet...
  • + 1
 @Padded: It's very early days to be saying that, but if any of those brands exit the DH bike arena it won't be the 29" wheels which were the issue!
  • - 10
flag torero (Apr 26, 2017 at 3:32) (Below Threshold)
 The sport does not progress like this, the advertising progress. Rules and limits are needed to make it a sport.
  • - 11
flag torero (Apr 26, 2017 at 3:34) (Below Threshold)
 *whit this
  • + 5
 @fr3er1d3r @timmo8
There's only a perceived advantage as long as nobody else runs that wheelsize, so in a years time if everyone else on the circuit follows to 29" there will be no advantage.
It's going to be the same as the switch from 26", once everyone was on 27.5" the advantage was gone and that's how we've ended up here again.
  • + 2
 A potential upside for the average park rat is that if the DH scene moves strictly to 29", I bet you'll see a revival of Freeride bikes. 180-200mm travel with 26" wheels and shorter, tighter geometry than the super-enduro 180mm bikes around right now.
  • + 13
 @timmo8: well if we just want faster with no why not widen the tracks and make them smoother?

This kind of progression just annoys me because it just makes the playing field less level and favours the big teams. As you see in the article Santa Cruz will pick the fastest bike for the particular race track. Privateers and smaller teams will not have that luxury. And like it or not there is almost no other sport where there is so little regulation of equipment standards which in a lot of ways is cool but I think you should at least have to lock in your wheel size for the year. At the end of the day it's the fastest rider we want to see win and hopefully in a spectacular fashion as it is a spectator sport trying to attract funding. Again I come back to the F1 comparison, it's much faster now but less exciting to watch and the cars are too easy to drive. Big wheels and plus size tyres will have the same effect just making things which were once a place where the top riders could separate themselves from the bunch too simple. And all for what? A slightly lower overall finishing time for everyone.
  • + 0
 @Padded: how competitive are you? For the WC pros a podium is worth more $$$ for average joe ride what works in your budget
  • + 2
 For now it favors the team's on 29ers, once all team's are on 29ers the playing levels back out to where they were on 27.5 and it will come back to the faster rider doing better.
  • + 2
 @Rationalcomplex: exactly!!!!!!!!!!
  • + 5
 @brncr6: yeah but what is the point? All it does is requires people to spend lots of money to compete. Why not just mandate the wheels at 27.5? Keep the costs down for everyone while in no way hindering bike tech development. I like seeing real innovations not just changing the most basic standards that require people to spend a fortune with no real benefit.
  • + 1
 @enduroFactory: I see no link in your answer with what has been said before.
  • + 1
 @denomerdano: SC is more Spanish brand that you would think...They sell really good here,even more than cheaper bikes or other spansih brands like Orbea,Mondraker or BH. Marketing is the real business. My new jekyll side by side with a Nomad...Nomad has nothing to do!
  • - 1
 @humoroususername: Regulations inevitably change. Who is actually making those regulations and their motivations needs to be accounted for. I'm going to bet that Trek/Spec have a bit more clout with the UCI than say, Kona. If changing a regulation, whether it be wheel size or otherwise, makes sense for their bottom line there will be a push for that. And when that regulation is changed the small teams will have no choice but to spend the money on development to even continue taking part. As we stand, without a mandate, at least smaller teams would be able to continue taking part while developing at their own pace rather than a pace dictated by a governing body.
  • + 1
 @Padded: Yep,new enduro bikes are mini-dh pedal-capable "All in one". The point here is SC=V10,thats why the are the first or try to in thing related to DH bikes. I´m not saying this is cool or bad,only that MTB bikes are going to change a lot in future years. A lot of brands are involved developing new stuff. I think near future small brands being more focused on custom bikes or made by hand,but to go there the people must ask for that kind of bikes.
  • + 4
 We are all missing the real problem here. It isn't wheel size- its the STUPID NEW BOOST 20MM 110!!!!! That should be mandated to stay the same by the UCI, just so we don't have to deal with the industry BS anymore
  • + 1
 @Padded: some companies will win some will lose. The article said SC went from concept to production in 6 months by reusing the front triangle and only changing linkages.

Overall, I do think DH bike selection will shrink. My enduro bike is faster than my DH bike for almost every park run that's not a double black here in CO, and pure DH racing has seemingly disappeared entirely from the state in favor of enduro racing.
  • + 2
 @humoroususername: Right on the money. Faster is better when progression is through rider skill. Look at Rampage. Faster is worse when it decreases the edge and style of the riders. No, well make the tracks smoother like a road they'll ride Faster. If DH continues this route it'll go the way of amany other sports like Skiing, windsurfing, F1. Skiing recovered because snowboarding kicked it's ass and the sport changed. Does anybody still windsurf? F1 - what joke compared to when Senna was racing.

Give me Brendog style and Ratboy character in DH and i'll keep watching.
  • + 1
 @homerjm: Yeah actually very few people are interested in throwing a lot of bucks in a full custom frame. (being Spanish, I assume you don't ignore what Unno is doing, incredible work but definitely a (ultra niche²)^10 market ahah.

@dthomp325 True, felt exactly the same with my enduro bike on bike park tracks.

Guys, there is actually no argue here, my only concern is that we'll see fewer and fewer DH bikes in the future. This is not a problem because enduro bikes are taking over, but I really used to love the DH bikes market back in ~2012.

But in the end, yeah, this is just how our sport is evolving.
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: SRAM's axle size of the month. Pretty much done with them for this and will be going to Shimano/Magura.
  • + 6
 @Padded: You say "Evil, Knolly and others stopped producing DH bikes just when the industry jumped into the 27,5 boat.". Another way of putting that is that those guys had competitive DH bikes in the 26" era - a time when lots of DH bikes were sold. When the 27.5" era started, they decided not to produce a new bike because their resources were focused on where the money was earned on bike sales - enduro bikes. Even just 5 or 6 years ago, you'd see lots of dual crown forks out on our local mountain. Today, that's really rare - those same riders now have 160ish mm enduro bikes (and are no longer pushing their bikes up the hill but instead riding the climb trails or grinding up the logging roads). We can argue all day about whether that shift is because enduro racing became popular, or enduro bikes became more capable, and whether it's an organic shift in demand or all those people were sheep following a trend - but for the manufacturers, I think their decision not to commit a new DH bike into production at a time when DH bikes were dropping market share and enduro bikes were selling like hotcakes is pretty much self-explanatory.
  • + 1
 @jclnv: Except this is on a FOX fork! And in a sea otter article it appears DVO is on board as well!
  • + 2
 @homerjm: exactly what I was saying.. People buy the Santa Cruz becauee of the name,I just went to lapinilla, everybody is on Intense or santa cruz.
  • + 1
 @g-42: You summed up pretty well my statement, totally agree. I just say that without standards evolutions, those brands would have probably kept those DH machines in their range. Once both R&D and tooling are made profitable, then even if you sell one bike a year, yeah, this is full profit.

That's why I told 29er DH bikes will probably kill every other DH bike than big brand's.
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: Yes but SRAM is such a big player in OEM they have no option but to preempt what's coming or no manufacturer will spec their products OEM and the majority of riders who don't care will just say '20mm sick' and won't buy them either.
  • + 2
 @jclnv: It sickens me. I bet there is no measurable difference, whether in the lab or with rider feedback with a new standard.
  • + 6
 @hamncheez: Nope zero difference. It's pure planned obsolescence ala Apple.

The really dark aspect is they brought in 15x110mm fully knowing that 20x110 was in the works. So what there is now a years worth of 15x110mm forks on the market that are completely obsolete? Zero reason to do that unless you want to put tooling cost pressures on smaller manufacturers.
  • + 1
 @Padded: i bet banshee will make some 29" dropouts for their adjustable dh bikes
  • + 1
 @homerjm: Agreed, but sc arent a small boutique company, they are part of one of the largest bike manufactures in the world.
  • + 2
 @Gate25: Glad I got to see Senna battle Prost and Mansell in Phoenix.
  • + 4
 @Gate25: Senna died. Which is half the reason the sport changed into what it is now.

Same thing with DH. Those guys are rolling the dice on the rowdy tracks. Hitting shit so fast and just hanging on. Eventually someone will get paralyzed or killed in a WC DH. If you were a race organizer or the UCI what kind of courses would you want?

I'm not disagreeing with you BTW. I love the gladitorial element and agree that F1 is a shadow of itself but it's just the way the world is these days eh?
  • + 1
 @Dmrbikes85211: That's clever engineering indeed! Wink
  • + 2
 @g-42: I see more DH bikes then enduro bikes on some days, your just not going to the right area. NW cup got over 450 entry's a couple of weeks back. DH is NOT dead.
  • + 1
 The 'point' in racing is to be the FASTEST(quickest) on course.
The same as it's always been
It's NEVER been to 'look' fast.
The fastest racers often look like they're going the slowest, as they're simply smoother on course.
Look at Kevin Schwantz. The guy always looked like he's on the warm-up lap, but he won races(and championships).
Mick Doohan, Mat Mladin, Troy Corser.. The list goes on and on.
Racing isn't about ANYTHING other than finishing first. If you want style points, watch gymnastics or ice skating
  • + 1
 @MX298: Nope, DH is not dead. There are lots of people riding DH bikes, and there are lots of places where you would see a lot of them. What I'm saying is that I used to see tons of them in places where you couldn't shuttle, and where the trails weren't all that gnarly. When I first started riding Galbraith in 2010, there'd be tons of people pushing DH bikes up the logging roads. You don't see that as much anymore - but you see lots of enduro bikes being pedalled up the logging roads to get to those same trails. When those people bought enduro bikes, I'm guessing they did so instead of buying a new DH bike. You could argue, then, that while DH may be alive and well, there still are a lot fewer DH bikes being bought than there used to be.
  • + 2
 @g-42: @padded:

Chris Stahl from Radon sums up the situation well in stating that the current demand for DH and full suspension XC racing bikes is very low in comparison to mid-travel options. It would be very difficult to sell many DH bikes without funding a WC DH team and this is simply too costly for small companies like Evil and Knolly knowing that sales will likely be limited anyway. Somehow, I doubt Devinci shutting their WC team had anything with the coming obvious approach of the 29er DH bike.

www.pinkbike.com/news/from-the-top-radons-chris-stahl.html

"To develop mid-travel bikes is not a problem, but if you have a downhill bike and you spend a lot of money on it… At the end of the day, you're only selling hundreds of them… There's not really a reason to have it, it's just there because you want to have it."
  • + 0
 I posted this above as well but... for those who say "FASTER IS BETTER PERIOD":

I think the point is really about the *type* of riding that we as fans/riders want to see. Almost all WC tracks have some portions that are insanely technical, but if riders can play it safe on the gnarly bits and work back to a podium spot on the 'motorway' by running a trail bike, wagon wheels, or a dropper post it really detracts from the core excitement of the sport. As DH fans we want the most fearless and technically skilled riders on the podium.
  • + 3
 @scriz: sounds like the problem is in track design, not 29er wheels
  • + 0
 @hamncheez: bit of a chicken-egg situation, especially when you throw marketing into the equation. It also seems pretty hard to design a long WC track with no pedally transitional segments.
  • + 1
 @scriz: Gwin won a race with taking exactly 0.5 pedal strokes
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: Graves made up 11 places and into a bronze medal at PMB on his trail bike. Same year that Ropo qualified 2nd on his 29er trail bike IIRC. I don't have a problem w/ 29er wheels, but I'm with Brendog on this one.
  • + 0
 @scriz: Once again, a problem with track design. Riders choose the best tool for the job; track builders don't build tracks based on where they think trends are headed for gear.
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: nailed it there, people are mixing up bike progression with trail progression
  • + 0
 @humoroususername: UCI need to step in then and set a maximum wheel size and minimum cycle and rider weight then, they do a minimum weight and frame shape for road cycling.
  • + 1
 @denomerdano: Yep here in La Pinilla bike park you can see the best of DH bikes,it´s awesome. I know well MTB scene in Madrid and most of the people are like a sect talking about bike brands. SC bikes are everywhere here,it´s easy to see 5 SC bikes in a group of 10 people. It´s crazy when we go out whit our trust lift company and see 3.000 euros van/4x4 towing 70.000 € in 10 bikes.
  • + 1
 @Padded: I never seen an Unno bike but I see lots of 10.000€ regular brand bikes...DH bikes are like racing cars/dirt bikes , it´s a special tool. Few years ago we need DH bikes but now bikes are lot more capable going downhill and you can´t pedal all day a DH bike. I sold my DH bike 1 year ago and I was missing her,but I purchase a new enduro bike 20 days ago and it goes downhill like that DH bike or even better in some points.
  • + 43
 Seems like the 29 DH bike has been brought to life not by the industry but by the riders/racers request, which validates it's purpose.
I thought 29er dh bikes would look whack but the V10 29er looks really good proportionately. Seeing a pic of Greg riding one it looks like a good fit for the taller riders.
  • + 4
 And they have not updated the Frame yet. just the back...
  • + 1
 See that pic of Greg at a 450SX race this off season? Looks like he's on an 85...
  • - 17
flag torero (Apr 26, 2017 at 5:45) (Below Threshold)
 Greg is the fuckng capitalist, he is owner of the bike shops.
  • + 4
 Honestly my dream bike being 6'6". I want one.
  • + 3
 @NWuntilirest: 6'6 here and riding a XXL 2017 Trek Fuel 29er. Feels like it was freaking made for me and the wheels look and feel totally proportional to the bike and my body size. The V10 would be boss as feck for us no doubt.
  • + 3
 @NWuntilirest: I'm 6'5 and after Greg and Peaty forced SC to build him them an XXL I've been waiting for him to push this on them too... our super large frames already have room for 29ers and once designed for them it will allow us to get down "in" the bike better like the little dudes can... psyched to see more options coming out for us big and tall folks...
  • + 1
 @NWuntilirest: 2 meters fellas looks ugly in today Enduro/DH bikes. Me at 1.80 looks ok over 27,5 bikes no matter what size. I try xl sizes bike and it feels OK to me (whit the dropper up I can´t reach the pedals,but once going downhill...). 29" big XC bikes are way faster but and XL frame for me is too big I feel weird on it,same thing on big road bikes but I never had that feeling over and XL enduro/dh bike. Maybe bikes are on the short size today no matter what size.
  • + 39
 It feels slower, but it is faster. Now anyone who doesn't race but rides for fun should ask themselves 'What is more fun? Being faster or feeling faster?'
  • + 36
 If you want to simply feel fast and ragged then I'd advise selling any modern mtb and riding a fully rigid setup. I think you're missing the point.
  • + 12
 Not entirely sure if this bike is aimed at people who don't race so its a pointless comment really. Plus you could just crank up the 29er till it feels fast as well as being fast.
  • + 2
 @webbe: Spot on comment. There is absolutely no room for error riding fully rigid.
  • + 9
 Exactly what I was thinking... would you feel more skilled in a Toyota Hilux or a Montertruck when riding the same course...
What I think is that regulations should be made... tire size should be one of them... like in road racing...
The trend now is bigger, faster and just roll over easier... and yes that will be faster and trails will be flattened by it... simply roll over easier... but than.. will we make the trails even more hard to ride?
I mean it is pretty much the chicken and egg story...
  • + 10
 this is what i have always said. 26inch hardtail will be the most fun even if its nowhere near the fastest cause its jsut so much easier to get to that raw edge. and living in the uk you need that cause we are not exactly overflowing with places like utah and whistler
  • + 2
 @jordanneedsafork: or a 29er hardtail when you get old and soft like me
  • + 9
 Wait until you feel fast on a 29'er. Give it time.
  • + 2
 @webbe: that's exactly why I built a single speed rigid 29er, to pair off with my 150mm 29er, like a big kids BMX
  • + 5
 I rode my xc hardtail on harder tracks on the weekend, can confirm it both felt and was slower than my 150mm full bouncer, so the "ride a rigid and feel like Sonic" thing doesn't really work out in the real world.

Why do people think that you would need a smoother course for a 29er? With better roll over, you can straight-line chunky rock gardens and steep nasty chutes even better, so if you wanted to keep your DH track exciting, you'd actually need to make it more gnarly. The only thing that you might lose are tight awkward corners.
  • + 6
 @bonfire: exactly this! I also see no reason that riding more capable bikes will result in the 'flattening' of trails - look at the WC tracks in the early days compared to now. That evolution corresponds with an evolution of technology - fire roads to 2017 Val Di Sole... The issues of tracks being 'straightened' in the interest of speed/media coverage is a legitimate cause for concern however, I just don't think this is the same issue.

This is the next evolution of our sport and I couldn't disagree with Trailstunter any more - our sport is in its infancy and technological advances should be encouraged. Whatever gets you down the hill fastest should be embraced. In a couple of decades we might reach a point where designs become largely homogenised, but until then we we should allow manufacturers to try whatever they want, especially at elite racing level.
  • + 0
 @webbe: You're right anything that's faster should be allowed. Here's a few things to implement: a kers system (or even just have e-bikes), bullet helmets along with skinsuits, aero wheels etc.

Larger wheels will only give an 'advantage' to riders like Minnaar as long as other teams aren't using them, which won't last long if any time.

There needs to be a point where regulations are put into place, perhaps that time is now.
  • + 1
 @L0rdTom: rigid doesn't feel faster it feels sketchier and slower but more on the edge hence you get "more thrill for your hill".
  • + 4
 @ ak-77: Yeah this is exactly why I ride 27.5. Smaller wheels are simply more fun on the dh to me. IMO 29ers are boring to ride downhill, but I love the way the climb up and over anything.
  • + 1
 @webbe: No, I don't think he's missing the point!

Anyone that's really in tune with what they are riding or driving will tell you that there is a difference between...

* Feeling fast and in control
* Feeling fast and out of control

Fast !== ragged!

Never mind that @ak-77 never said anything about being ragged!
  • + 1
 @thepodge: I think that's where the rub is. DH bikes used to be sold widely to recreational riders. They'd take them to bike parks, and they'd shuttle them locally, or even go for long hikes pushing them up the hill to then ride them. Because enduro bikes are so capable now, very few people still buy DH bikes.
  • + 1
 @webbe:

So why do you think we ride a bike? Why not a motorcycle... or skin suits (which are forbidden in dh cause people were using them but it was not DH like )
Regulations you will find anywhere.. no e-bikes is one of them... but it would make them faster?
Regulations of wheelsize and suspension length would be very much in place here... just like in any sport... you need some standards to keep the sport like it is supposed to be...
Read back why the've chosen for 26 as a standard back in the days... ????
  • + 1
 @Trailstunter: because that's all they could get. Ritchey wanted to go 650b but wasn't big enough. Evolving from beach cruisers with road bike parts limited people to what was available.
  • + 1
 @bonfire:
... because there was 24 and 26 inch indeed and they decided that they needed standards for their bikes... they used 24 because of the BMX wheels (stronger) were just there... and 26 was the new standard to be set but less options available.
I think standards are good... and nothing short of not being innovative. Innovation will still be there...
  • + 1
 @L0rdTom: yes indeed
  • + 36
 I can't believe Santa Cruz didn't consult the experts on here before doing this.
  • + 12
 Lol, this sums up the comment section perfectly.
  • + 1
 @tigerteeuwen: haha sure does!
  • + 32
 Looks right on an XXL V10
  • + 15
 As a MTB I want to have fun and go as fast as I personally can, I have no qualms about 29 wheels as my Tallboy 3 is such a fun bike to ride, I knew 29 would end up on the WC and I'm glad to see it, tech moves on people don't, I understand the romance of 26 wheels but you do get bored of seeing people whinge about a bloody wheel size, the bikes are faster and more capable than ever, just get over it and embrace the change, stop trying to kid yourselves that you 'don't get on' with bigger wheels because your too cool, you do get on with them and you do realize how good they are you're just scared to be the first in your group of friends to admit it! Hi, I'm Lee and I embrace the bigger wheel1
  • + 6
 Congrats, you've been 26er free for how long?
  • + 0
 @headshot: :O Trail and DH for 6 years now... Cycle trials I still ride 26, but only as they are the biggest wheel option haha Wink
  • + 15
 It's probably going to work great for tall riders like Greg but the question is will it work for short riders like Troy Brosnan? Yes the got DH rims and DH hubs but is it going to be strong enough? Time will tell.
  • + 4
 Spot on...Greg is 6'3, bit different if your 5'7 Still it may well balance out the advantage the smaller riders have on the really tight courses...we have all seen turns looking a lot tighter for Greg than smaller riders..
  • + 22
 29 inst just for tall people. Katy Winton is 5 foot 2 and doing perfectly well on one.

dirtmountainbike.com/videos/29ers-dominate-scottish-downhill-association-round-2.html
  • + 7
 @thepodge: I'm 5'7" been loving 29ers for the last few years. No issues. This looks awesome
  • + 4
 @thepodge: As the article you flag says they were slower on the technical section and there was a traverse where presumably they picked up time.....

.....but I am not saying they aren't just for big dudes...look at TM, she slaughters everything on a Slash....

....But can you see Danny Hart on a big wheel going down Champery? Nah
  • + 1
 @graeme187: I'm 5.10, they seem to be the first bike that ever fit me.
  • + 2
 Why are you assuming it's one or the other? Lots of manufacturers have 27.5 and 29" versions of plenty of bikes. Who is to say they won't keep the 27.5 and have both available for race use and sale?
  • + 5
 @Travel66: Wasn't there a Instagram of a Fox 29 DH fork with a Mondraker in the background?

Yes I could see Danny on a 29er.
  • + 3
 From my own humble experience as a 5'6" rider I don't feel that height is a huge disadvantage.
But I would say that 29ers are faster until things start to get a bit wild, they can be more difficult to wrestle back under control and for a shorter rider that may be harder still.
Can't wait to find out!
  • + 1
 I understand that there is currently 29ers that are made in a small and probably some extra small frames but you are not talking about DH bikes. You are talking about enduro bikes that go down hill not DH bikes. You have longer wheelbases higher clearance and center of gravity. How much are these bikes going to drift in the air with a small light ridder on it? Let just see what the race results are instead of comparing apples with pears. They both come in green and grow on trees but taste and look different.
  • + 1
 @ThomDawson: nailed it Thom....we both now how big fast enduro 29ers feel on DH, BUT I will let you try first!
  • + 1
 Troy, Danny and Ragot look to be on massive wheeled bikes on 275, 29 will look downright foolish.
  • + 4
 How many times? Wheels interact with the ground, they don't interact with the rider. The whole "tall people should ride 29ers" thing is ridiculous.

Rider height only effects the aesthetics of a bike when it comes to which wheel size you should choose. If you care about how the bike rides, not how it looks then the choice of wheel size should be down to what you want from the bike. You want flicky bike and don't care about strava times? Pick a smaller size. You want a monster truck that makes the bumps feel smaller and gets you them creamy KOMs? Pick a larger size.

You can build a small frame with 29" wheels, you can build an XXL with 26".
  • + 4
 @Patrick9-32: If you build a DH 29er with 8 inches of travel on a small frame the rear wheel will interact with your ass as well....hence why Santa Cruz have had to reduce the travel for the average height riders....

the conversation goes like this...
GM: dude try the 29er again
LV: no way my ass is still sore from last time
GM: oh fuk yer, hey mechanic dude stop the wheel going up his ass
MD: sorted
LV: f*ck its fast, but man its harder to throw around....
  • + 2
 @T-Bot: The current 29ers are more stable than other wheel sizes at speed, cover up mistakes, and have more bb drop. Overall, they have a really low center of gravity.
  • + 2
 @Travel66: That's only because they are fitting 29er wheels onto the existing frame not starting from scratch with a design built around that wheel size.
  • + 1
 @Patrick9-32: rubbish...the rear end is built for the 29 V10.....and you cant get away from the fact that a big wheel will always be closer to your ass than a 26/27...its already an issue on long travel 29ers let alone DH 29ers with even more travel....i know it because my butt found out the hard way!
  • + 1
 @ThomDawson: I'm not even all that tall (6'1" ), but I'm fairly big (230#/105kg). When I bought my current bike, I tried both 29 and 27.5, and found the 27.5 to just feel awkward. The smaller wheels do make it easier to throw a bike into turns (apart from geometry), but at my size, that's not really an issue, and if anything, a benefit (I tend to overcorrect on smaller wheels). My wife, however, at roughly half my weight finds 29ers cumbersome.
  • + 1
 @Travel66: the beauty of the VPP system though is that they can tune the link to keep the wheel on a rearward path if required, I obviously have no idea if that's what they've done because I don't understand the kinematics of the frame, but it's an easy way around the ass-buzz problem.
  • + 1
 @pimpin-gimp: rearward path is not quite what it sounds like...this shows the v10 kinematics

youtu.be/4Frc_-Ynow8
  • + 1
 @Travel66: oh yeah, I know (roughly) how the vpp works but figured they might need to make it either rearward or vertical to counter the wheel size, pure speculation of course but it's one way to solve the problem, just got to deal with chain growth then!!
  • + 17
 Now the price of 650b dh bikes is going to fall through the floor, I might actually be able to afford one
  • + 3
 Aren't you glad you didn't drink the kool aid
  • + 12
 Question:
Is this middle thing 27.5 necessary? Wouldn't it be enough to have 26 and 29?
For me the 27.5 seems some lukewarm in the middle thing...
  • + 2
 650b was always the worst of both. it was nothing but a marketing ploy to ease consumers onto bigger wheels
  • + 3
 @jordanneedsafork: what needs to happen is for 26" to die because 27.5 is better in every way. 27.5 and 29 will live on together. Grow up.
  • + 6
 @tetonlarry: It already has died! Who is using it for racing other than slalom?

That said, are you saying we should phuck up the world for slope style peeps?
  • - 2
 @BDKR: good point. 26" needs to die in the DH and XC world. It only makes sense for slope style.
  • + 10
 For racing it might be the key to succes. But let's face it. The average guys just wanna have fun on two wheels. Fun an comfort to shred a whole day at the park. Throwing around a bulky 29er is not that much fun. It is just fast. i still don't think this will come to be average for a DH bike in future.
  • + 3
 That's exactly it. A large portion (likely even the majority) of DH bikes purchased are by people whose main use for the bike is freeriding/bike parks, not racing. And while the 29er may be faster in a race setting there is no way people are going to want to ride 29ers in the bike park. It's likely a very limited marked of people who buy bikes for racing only.
  • + 12
 So when do we start the #27.5isn'tdead
  • + 2
 When Minnaar, Luca or Loris win Lourdes this weekend. Or allegedly at least one rider from the Mondraker team.
  • + 1
 @L0rdTom: or trek..
  • + 8
 Raced 29ers downhill for a few seasons. You don't take a hit in the tight stuff with modern geometry, you carry more speed in the large radius turns, but you take a big hit in the medium radius turns at fast speeds, as the gyroscopic rigidity just tugs your wheels to the outside of the turn and if you enter too fast, you simply skid towards the outside and burn up a bunch of speed, so you end up having to slow more and then pedal more after the turn. When I switched back to "normal" (now 27.5) I went back to getting 2nd place, vs. mid-pack finishes. There are other inherent problems like the wheels being fliexier, the bike not jumping the same (flatter and requires more pedaling to get up to speed) as well as some advantages, like being able to just bash over any wheel-catchers with no worries. Overall though, the negatives outweighed the positives for the purpose of going as fast as possible. Lots of people think about their XC/AM 29er with light skinny tires/rims and fail to realize the true rotating mass of DH rubber and rims, which if you haven't experienced, you need to, before you make a decision on a 29er for DH. It's not that they can't be fun, I like 29ers for most riding and I think bikes like the Wreckoning are great rides, but for the purpose of going downhill as fast as possible? I won't do that again.
  • + 2
 I think wheels will be a big problem. Can barely keep 27.5 DH wheels together. Not everyone can switch out envy's between each run!
  • + 1
 Out of pure curiosity can I ask how tall you are? I'm wondering if rider size and therefore relative strength and leverage really do play a roll in your first hand experience? Is this something that we'll see the tall guys take up to balance out the wheelbase of an XL DH frame while the shorter Gwin's and Harts stick to the nimbleness of the smaller wheels to gain an advantage there?
  • + 8
 I think this isn't good for people who want to buy a new bike. Now they will wait some months or even a year to see what's going to happen with wheel size. I don't like the fact of changeing the size every 2 years. What's next? 27,5+ or 29+ dh bikes in 2021?
  • + 2
 following the wheelsize and geometry trends isnt a reason not to buy a new bike. who cares if its not the newest as long as its more fun than your last one
  • + 5
 @jordanneedsafork: if you found your dream bike, knock yourself out but for a lot of people, having your resale value going to shit before you even bought the thing isn't a very attractive prospect.
  • + 3
 I agree that you shouldn't be influenced too much by what the pro's are doing if you aren't as fast as them, but if I knew 29 DH bikes were heading to production in the next year, I'd be hesitant to replace a DH bike until I was able to have a go on one and know for myself whether I was faster/having more fun.
  • + 0
 @jordanneedsafork: Exactly, no one is forcing anyone to buy a 29er DH bike... but if it is faster and you want to race, at least you've got the option now.
  • + 8
 i have always said 29ers are the fastest and 26 is the most fun. for racing 29ers where always going to be a thing. 27.5 was always a method jsut to ease everyone onto 29ers without the public going mad.

its a shame that the consumer mountainbiking industry is driven by professional racing. cause the average joe rides for fun at the end of the day. if going as fast as possible is your idea of fun then its a good time for you. but for me? ill stick with my hard tail 26" bike and not worrying about strava times Smile
  • + 4
 Agreed, I have all three wheel sizes in my garage. My 26" HT has been out of repair for a while. I'm gearing up to paint the frame and rebuild it. I really miss riding it. 26" feels totally different from the big wheel guys. They all feel different and 26" is a lot of fun!
  • + 1
 @jordanneedsafork - saying that 29ers are fastest and 25 is the most fun is a pretty blanket statement. For me as a recreational rider with no interest in going fast, when I compared trail bikes, I found the 29er to be the most fun. That's probably because I'm big and heavy. Your mileage may vary.
  • + 1
 true, for the same rider on the same trail that statement is generally true. but if you are a very tall you might feel cramped and uncomfortable on a small bike and want that security of a bigger set of wheels. like why i dont really like BMXes cause they are too small and i fall off the back. personal choice really dictates it on a personal level but on the whole i think the statement rings true that most people would find 29ers faster and 26ers mroe fun
  • + 11
 Dh is going 29..and mx is going electric..times are changing..
  • - 3
 New dh tracks fault
  • + 4
 @torero: rip schladming pila champery etc..
  • + 4
 You mean UCI's fault, or is it Redbull's fault, seeing as that's what they think will be better for TV?
  • + 1
 I think it' both's fault..the only venue keeping it real seems to be val di sole..but it's not so televising for the average spectator
  • + 7
 In skiing there is a huge difference between DH race skis and everyday skis. No one in there right mind would buy FIS Dh boards unless they race worldcup courses. Hell even lindsy vonn races DH on Bode miller's super g skis. I believe this is the direction DH MTB is going.
  • + 1
 Exactly, but it does not only go for DH. No normal consumer would buy a SG, GS or SL ski (except maybe in Austria). The consumer wants a fun ski not a fast ski.
  • + 6
 Please, UCI, don't make "regulations" about wheel size or tire size or anything else! Keep it wide open with respect to the bikes!

This is the highest level of competition and the equipment is a huge part of it. Let the teams develope whatever they can and use it. May the fastest teams win!
  • + 6
 I'm all for faster racing but it seems unfair to me have these sort of bikes trickle in. Bigger wheels seems much like putting a bigger engine in your race car, an unfair advantage. I'd much prefer a level playing field, where everyone rides the same basic chassis, you could almost have two separate fields these days. I also hope the inevitably less manoeuvrable 29" bikes don't lead to straighter and less technical tracks.
  • + 1
 Just take a quick glance at F1, racing is warefare, an arms race to be the fastest.
  • + 3
 @graeme187: but they do have regulated a lot...
To keep it more balanced.
  • + 5
 DH is also "warefare", in that for most sponsoring companies it's simply a race to sell your wares.

A better example than F1 for the "don't ban 29ers" crowd would be the 9' rule in Whitewater kayaking. Loads of companies make their L and XL creek boats to exactly 9' to meet short-boat creek racing limitations, and the next size up is straight to 12' for the long boat categories. I think a lot of bigger guys like myself might do better with a slightly longer boat than 9', but no one will make them because they don't meet race specs, limiting the progression of the sport for bigger paddlers.
  • + 6
 In four years or so people have gone from wishing to beat someone riding a 29er to death to wishing one for their quiver, though in the process the industry has murdered the old wheel size and flooded the market with a new one that will become obsolete over the next four years or so. So funny. No wonder they keep putting new standars out every two or three months. Making bikes is not their business, standarizing is their business, and business is good.
  • + 6
 Please correct me if I’m wrong, but the firs year with 650b bikes on the world cup they did not win one race? Still almost all teams switched to 650b the following year because no manufacturer wanted to be left behind when a new standard came. That’s why I think it won’t matter if Greg or Loris wins on the 29er. The end of 650b in DH has started.
  • + 11
 29ers are cool
  • - 9
flag torero (Apr 26, 2017 at 3:24) (Below Threshold)
 Trash industry
  • + 7
 I felt a disturbance, it as though millions of Pinkbike readers suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.
  • + 5
 Actually I'm keen to see how this progresses it adds another dimension to what equipment is fastest and who is fastest! But don't think for a minute that it's over, Enduro has proved it's not wheel size alone! It's track type, rider, conditions, as it always should be, my only and always has been negative! is while people always spout its eveolutuon or progression, that's only true if the tracks evolve too and in DH this is not the case, arguably we are getting less technical and less long tracks! Where are the Schladming, Champery, Val di Sole, Sanremo Downhill and the like, this thing will be fast at Mt St Anne and Fort William for sure! But we need track progression as well and I don't mean bike park Red Hull TV suitable tracks this is not supercross! We need more old style Euro tracks! Dungey is retiring if the SX format changes next year, I'll bet a few DH riders retire as well if this becomes a road race on dirt!!
  • - 5
flag Trailstunter (Apr 26, 2017 at 2:17) (Below Threshold)
 So ... we race on 26".... we have great competition... and needed skills... we get 27.5" we need less skill and we get faster times... race tracks are easier for this wheelsize... so we make them harder to ride... we bump up to 29" race tracks are easier to ride... faster times... we bump up the tracks again... This is pretty endless...

So why not just keep a same wheelsize... 26 or 27.5 and just leave it like that!
In any form of worldcup racing sports... wheelsize is regulated... it should be in UCI and EWS too...
  • + 1
 @Trailstunter: why not just keep this and that, because none of people like you and me are to decide so just drop it and enjoy the show as it is. If you think that wheel size is what makes DH worth watching then you should change hobby since you seem to be here for a wrong reason. I don't care about racing much, I find spectatorship to be an elaborate and socially accepted form of masturbation in public. But when I do sit doen to watch a race I could not give a tiniest fk what bikes they are riding on what track.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns:
Never said wheelsize makes the fun watching... and you are not totally right... forums do have influence and opinions on manufacturers also...
I was talking about the endless circle of rougher tracks followed by bigger wheels (and more suspension length) when wheelsize is free to choose... see where it goes for years now Wink They should regulate the suspension length and wheelsize... so we have much more fair competition ... and it is better for the people who are not forced to buy all new standards all the time...
And how about the natural trails... which cannot be altered... bigger wheels just make them easier to ride... less skills needed... and so less challenge.... why don't we just go back to road riding than Wink
  • + 1
 @Trailstunter: because then we'll never get to see what the mountain bike is actually capable of
  • + 6
 @Trailstunter: take it from me, a full retard fkng troll, nobody gives a flying sht what I say. Nobody cares what people on forums say. Competitions are run for advertisers, and they care almost entirely about ratings. The personal views of people behind those numbers are irrelevant. Whether these people can ride or not, is irrelevant. Smoother tracks in easily filmable open areas, ridden by bigger wheels giving longer jumps and faster speeds on speed trap, if all that gives more viewers, more exposure, that is how it is going to look. Nobody in outside world gives a flying fk about FEST series, but many people recognize Red Bull Rampage. You know, that thing lots of Pinkbike commenters hate for how commercialized it is. Redbull should pay and sht. And people who watch stuff eand consequently get exposed to commercials, but don't comment are maaaaany more than those who do have elaborated "so precious" opinions on the internet. In fact your comment doesn't mean sht, what means is the counter of comments and counter of page views.

And I have no freaking clue where a track like Pietermaritzburg (that is apparently THE WORST) comes close to road racing... i mean, get your arse there and try to get within a minute of Minnaar and we can talk about it again. Because what most people here see is that Graves fot 3rd on a trail bike and it shouldn't be this way. As if bike mattered. That simply means people have no fkng clue about riding because if they did, they would know that there is no fkng way in the world they too could take a 160 bike and ride at a 30ft tabletop at 50km/h. These are people who are smart asses because they can get down a dwonhill world cup track and not die, then want credit for it. Because in their mind, they are better than an average roadie on XCer, you pick whoever you want to dis, that awful lycra leg shaver would not ride it, he would be scared, and thus this hardcore downhiller can feel better about himself. Well there are no medals for "not die", there are medals for rip that scary sht apart.

And the only reason people talk sht about PMB or Lenzerheide is because they know sht and can sht. Any idiot can ride down Champery in wet on a DH bike if he is given like two days of practice. Almost no one can clear the first double on a BMX track even after 2 years of practice. So people should take it easy with judging machine dug World Cup tracks
  • + 1
 @Trailstunter:

Here, let me make the world a slightly better place. I found that interesting and it covers a lot about social media.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlPF9_1VIso
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Quite interesting, watching it now... thanks Wink
  • + 4
 Its good to see the sport progress. 29er trail bikes are rad machines and it was only a matter of time before the wheel size was going to make its way to the downhill scene.

I'm bloody glad I didn't make the shift to the 27.5. I better get saving and in 5 years time I might be getting rid of my trusty 26" bike and be sitting on a mammoth 29er.
  • + 5
 The take home point is Lourdes is this weekend!!! Call me stoked. I don't give a F about who is riding what. I want to see all my favorite riders healthy, strong and fast as hell!
  • + 4
 I'm shocked it took this long for someone to actually do it. Everyone crying that it's only being done because "29ers are fashionable" need to realize that the ONLY reason it's taken this long is because the industry was PROTECTING your delicate DHboy sensibilities.

It's been know for years and years that 29ers are just plain faster, pretty much everywhere.

Yes, they take more effort to turn in the tight stuff, but for every turn that a rider is going .08 seconds slower through, they're BLASTING down the straights far faster than 27.5

Sorry park rats, looks like you're gonna end up on those "kooky, only-for-XC-weenies" 29ers after all! The scandal!!!!

But don't worry, they make your TLD Clown pajamas in 29er specific colorways so you'll be fine!
  • + 4
 Sick bike. I would consider getting one if bike parks primary concern wasn't mainly to build blue tracks that I can ride faster on my enduro bike, and black tracks with tame tech lines imo while dumbing down existing "expert trails" with gaper lines and gaper down ramps everywhere.
  • + 6
 I don't get why they are bragging about their quick carbon manufacturing when in reality this is a standard main frame with aluminium backend?
  • + 2
 The pictures of the entire, fully-built bike are with an aluminum rear triangle. The close up pictures show carbon rear. Not sure why...
  • + 4
 I love it. The only bike from Santa Cruz that I find exciting. Must be an absolute plower, It just brain fkng to imagine running that with 29x2.8" Minions. Fantastic!

On another hand SC paint department: painting carbon in silver Wink C'm on guys... would you put carbon weaving pattern on an aluminium frame? The first carbon Nomad in white was the best graphic you have ever made. Please make it great again!
  • + 1
 WAKI . . . . resume ?
  • + 9
 Looks sick...im a fan
  • + 6
 Have there been any sightings of a 29" Boxxer? Or will sram be playing catch up if these things are fast?
  • + 5
 So Minnar is one of the most successful downhill riders in the world and he has push for this bike to be manufactured, how can you argue with that.......
  • + 5
 i'll bet the farm that none of the riders here bitching about how gay or not fun a 29er is, hasn't actually ever ridden one..............ever, never mind a dialed 160mm one
  • - 9
flag Patrick9-32 (Apr 26, 2017 at 4:44) (Below Threshold)
 Ridden plenty, real nice top end 29ers. None of them were as fun as my own older, cheaper bike. You feel like you can simply point the bike at a rough piece of trail and go straight through/over it with no thought as to line choice etc. It feels like it takes the skill out of riding, especially on the fairly tame trails I have at my disposal. Yeah, I bet I would be faster on one but I am never going to race so who gives a shit?
  • - 2
 @Patrick9-32: "You feel like you can simply point the bike at a rough piece of trail and go straight through/over it with no thought as to line choice etc." Perhaps you should ride gnarlier trails then? And it was me building a rigid single speed 29er for my tamer trail rides that converted me and led me to make sure my next enduro bike build was a 29er. At 5'10 and 61kgs, it requires a lot of strength, skill, fitness and line choice to muscle it around and get it fast, your argument is invalid.
  • - 1
 @phdotd: You must look like a mouse riding an elephant on a big brash 29er :-) I have a nice 26er Enduro for you to try.
  • + 5
 Can't wait to see who else is going to drop a 29inch bomb! Will Gwin rock up at Lourdes on a 29er Tues? Personnaly, I don't think so.
  • + 4
 My bet is on Gee being on big wheels as well following the article in Dirt on the Session 29er.
  • + 4
 @fartymarty: Yeah, I expect TFR to rock up with a 29er Session.

On a related note, just imagine the look on Semenuk's face if Trek's marketing chumps ask him whether he'd be willing to ride a 29er at Rampage.
  • + 6
 @Odinson: jeez Rach's times are going to be insane if she's the only one on a 29er.
  • + 4
 @Odinson: I still reckon Semenuk would kill it on a wagon wheeler.
  • + 3
 Think I saw a pic on Instagram that Loic posted yesterday of him on a 29er.
  • + 1
 @Odinson: This is potentially the most important DH race ever.
  • + 4
 AG can kiss his title goodbye. Minnar to become even GOATier. Next year 30 Inch wheels.
  • + 0
 @Mojo348: "even GOATier!" HA!
  • + 2
 @fartymarty: That dude would kill it on a f*ckin unicycle.
  • - 2
 Gwin will need to go for leg and arm extensions to fit the bigger wheeled bikes. Expect him to be out for several months while he recovers...
  • + 1
 Gwin will win a cup race with no wheels, totally destroying the wheel size superiority debate
  • + 4
 They really could have mitigated some of the whinging from the 29er hate squad if they just put a damn gearbox on it. Opportunity missed Santa Cruz...
  • + 3
 I don't understand why 27.5 was a thing then. It all proves that DH is all about marketing and selling bikes. If it was about pure speed they would have went straight to 29 when 26 died.
  • + 5
 Its also true the tech just wasn't quite there, 29er wheel strength, geo ad forks just weren't dialled enough 4 years ago to make the jump...
  • + 2
 @graeme187: the tech was there; Dorado fork, wheels have always been able to be made stiff. Hubs came in 20 and 150. Tires just needed to be made a larger diameter. Industry hasn't wanted to progress geo numbers since they added front suspension years ago.
  • + 6
 Yea they sold everyone on 27.5 bring the sweet spot. The perfect size wheel. Best of both worlds. Rolls like a 29er but handles like a 26. And now it's, oh wait, here's a 29er, it's the best now.
  • + 7
 @gonecoastal: You're absolutely right. Wider spacing hubs and all those things are even less of a problem in dh were bikes are less constricted because of 7-speed drivetrains and wieder axles.
Talking about "technology" in this context is kinda ridiculous to be honest. It's just about tweaking a few numbers really. We humans are capable of designing machines that are capable of flying hundreds of tons of weight through the air, yet people claim designers were unable to change an axle standard on a freakin pedal bike 4 years ago? C'mon, this isn't exactly rocket science.
If they wanted to, they could have just made 29" the new standard instead of 650b. Trek pushed boost pretty much by themselfes, didn't they? So whatever components they want/need to work with new sizes/standards, the industry will follow suit and deliver because it'll make them money.
As much as i do not like specialized's way of handling business in most cases, they were at least honest a few years back, claiming it's not worth pushing 650b because 29 is superior, while everyone else was singing praises of 650b wheels. Now all of those companies seem to abandon 27,5 and jump on the 29 bandwagon as if 3 years ago they didn't even know 29ers existed.
It's all marketing and that is perfectly fine. They need it to make money and that's also fine. But saying it "wasn't possible" is straight up lying. They just didn't want to make it happen.
  • + 2
 @Loki87: it was possible, and I might be wrong, but show me a 29er rim for sale in 2013 that could handle a DH world cup tracks from top to bottom without falling to pieces... and not everyone is sponsored by Manatou
  • + 6
 @graeme187:
So you really believe they were not capable of manufacturing a rim and THAT was the reason holding frame manufacturers back?
Fair enough i guess, everybody has a their own opinion and there´s not much to argue about the fact there were no/not many rims available back then. I myself however tend to think higher of engineers than that. We got CAD construction and shit for a reason. Designing a rim with decent stress distribution for 29" should not have been a problem 3 years ago and as far as i know there haven´t been any major breakthroughs in material or construction techniques in the meantime that suddenly allow for the construction of said rims.
The same goes for forks. It really isn´t hard to slap a 29" compatible fork together in a short amount of time.

Again, my only argument is, they could have done it IF they wanted to. Those developments are nothing that happens overnight. The big players communicate with the component manufacturers way ahead of new model year releases and those manufacturers surely are interested in producing the stuff needed by the frame manufacturers.

The other interesting thing here is, as far as i know, there was no single manufacturer claiming rim/wheel durability to be the limiting factor of 29". Almost all of them pushed 650b for handling reasons and "being the best of both worlds".
Again, the truth probably being somewhere in between, but the current 29" hypemachine sure seems to have forgotten about how 650b was superior in just about any way just 3 years back.

If anything, and that is basically what the OP was asking about, it shows the reason for pushing 650b in the first place was lazyness on the industrie´s part. Whether it was because of lack of motivation (as i claim) or lack of ability doesn´t really matter. I think that´s basically where we both can agree with each other.

And if one was wanting to get their tinfoil hat on, in the end it was just another ploy to get consumers to buy into a new standard which was bound to be obsolete shortly after.
  • + 1
 @graeme187: Flow Ex. My LB carbon 29er rims are likely 2013 era now. Dorado was an example of a fork produced then for public. MRP inverted could've been around then too. RS, FOX Marazocchi just plan lazy
  • + 2
 What ever happened to mountain bikes being kind of small and playfull??? They just keep getting bigger. And the crazy thing is that in a lot of cases, bigger is better! Who am I to talk? Well, I have a 26 trail bike. It's awesome, but I also have a new 2017 XL enduro 29. It's huge, it's awesome, it shreds like no other, it has 165mm travel!
  • + 4
 I think you just answered your own question. Small doesn't necessarily mean playful and playful doesn't necessarily mean small.
  • + 1
 Maybe it's just like forks, it started with 100mm, then there was a 300mm Super Monster and now theres a solid 200mm.
  • + 6
 I'm glad I don't give a $hit about wheelsize. Ride on!
  • + 2
 am I only one thinking they are going to kill 27.5 ? lets face it GM on 29er wheels like Cat on hot tin roof !

then we will have wonderful UCI maybe going mmmmm these guys are a lot faster than 27.5 , maybe they need own class ?
  • + 5
 You are probably not alone, but you're all wrong, China.The EWS is full of 29ers and they don't kill anything - they do sometimes win though, as do the 27.5s. I don't think it will make a jot of difference to the outcome of any of the races. Too many other variables, as always.
  • + 0
 @headshot: I think be different ball game to EWS , TOP DH riders on the tracks they like will have a advantage .
  • + 1
 @j-davin: Lets see!
  • + 2
 I have been waiting for this.
I think 2 years and I will hang up my 26" rig for a 29er and miss out the middle fad of 27.5/650B.
The analysis of results this weekend will be interesting for sure.
Give it 4 years and 27.5 will be worthless like 26 is just now compared to 27.5.

I would reset back to 26" and keep the relative difference between hole size and wheels interesting.
  • + 2
 Mr.Minn FTW on Wagon Wheels!

As a tall guy (6'4) that just made the switch to 29er from 26, even with my lack of skills, training, physical strength and not having a carbon frame/wheels or Gucci Suspension I've experience a noticeable increase in speed and stamina on my local trails. I'm sure a finely tuned specimen such as a UCI racing robot will have no problem making it happen, especially on longer falter trails like Ft.Bill..

Can't wait to see Greg on that stop step again

**Starts signing Glory Days....
  • + 4
 I'm not sure what ishe more impressive 210mm travel 29er or the R&D exercise in such a short period of time.
  • + 3
 Excellent, I was late to the 29'' wheels but am now a convert, it was only a matter of time before they were gonna show up on dh bikes.
  • + 3
 If it's faster then you gotta go with it in racing. Times don't like. You can use alternative facts for wheel size all you want but you won't be on the podium.
  • + 3
 Looks nice and fast... if the goat says it's fast, then I don't see the big deal...

#29forlife
#deathto26
#27.5feelsmall
#theGOATknowsall
#wheresthespandex
  • + 1
 Why does the industry have to settle and make us settle on one size? 26" lasted for so long because that's all there was. Honestly 29" came into being in order to get some roadies to ride off road. Why can't we all just get along? My wife stands 5'10" tall and doesn't like 29" wheels at all. She's perfectly happy on her SC Bronson. I have an old 26" CDale single pivot that I've totally souped up with modern components and a custom shock, long travel fork etc. I stand 5'7". I ride both bikes through PA gnar and there's many days I prefer the feel of my old C Dale. No it isn't as fast as the Bronson, but a bigger bike is a lot more to huck around, that's all there is to it.
  • + 2
 This is the whole argument! The industry isn't giving customers choices. I prefer 26". How many 26" choices do we have? Nearly none. No one should give two shits about all this if we as customers could actually buy what we want instead of the industry telling us what we want! That's where all the rage comes from.
  • + 2
 @bikebike69: 100% agree with your comments. This is exactly why i get so pissed of when people say move with the times yet i have got a new fox transfer dropper post and other recent stuff but i like the wheelsize that i like but cant buy new bikes in my preferred wheel size.
  • + 1
 I'm torn on how to feel about this. I do like the diversity in set ups between riders. Let minnaar run the 29". I'm interested to see how he does. Is the syndicate the only reported riders showing up with 29'ers? Once the entire field switches to 29'ers then the advantage is gone and it's just like when everyone was on 26" or on 27.5 again.

What if UCI did regulate things like wheel size, travel, etc? Of course that would even the playing field. Would that slow down the insane progression of aftermarket companies ?
  • + 1
 all syndicate is running 29. Danny will likely be running 29. It is possible that Loic may be running prototype 29, maybe maybe not...
  • + 1
 This looks like the future of DH. Like it or not the evolution is on. The Santa Cruz crew assumes its leadership position again with this piece of work. Their innovative attitude and the ability to go from experimental to refined bikes is impressive. Props to them for pushing the limits of our sport as they have done in the past with creations like the Tallboy LTC a few years ago and the Nomad in 2005.
  • + 3
 And industry stupidity continues with the simple minded gullible buyers feeding it! They'll get you again,again,again...you guys will buy into anything!
  • + 3
 I guess Greg Minnaar should consult with the 26ain'tdead folks what bike he chooses to ride. I still don't get what the problem is here?
  • + 1
 One thing to consider is the effect this might have on the amateur racer that can't afford the latest wheel size as it means a frame and fork as well as wheels and tires. FIS screw kids all the time by changing the allowable dimensions of skis which eliminates used sales from sponsored racers and sale skis with last year's graphics. So now a kid or his parents need to buy up to eight pairs of skis to race. Worse with skis because last seasons skis are now illegal for. FIS races whereas old bikes might just be uncompetitive. But if you're a privateer trying to be competitive with sponsored or wealthy racers it gets tough.
  • + 1
 i guess 650b dh bikes will be cheaper which is good right....i guess so as thats what most people said about the demise of 26" wheeled bikes.

maybe 26 and 27.5 fans should join forces and push another new standard out there like 26.75.....all the goodness of 26 with all the greatness of 27.5 and none of the...........oh i dont know er magic of 29ers?

its gonna be funny seeing how bike manufacturers try to sell on old stocks of 27.5 bikes next season with there sales bullshit only to treat them like lepers the next season.....27.5 and 26 what never heard of them.
(i know 27.5 isnt really 27.5")
  • + 2
 1) I just want to push the total comments over 500
2) Is there some way to rank most commented on PB articles of all time? Cause this seems up there
3) If you've read this far in the comments you are very dedicated
  • + 1
 Not a great deal of hate so let's go.
Even if it is Greg who wins on a 29er against the other 27.5 bikes by 4 seconds, I will still think of a * by the name.
I like some standards in the sport, so you can tell who is the better rider on the day and not so much the bike. If they beat last years race time by 3 seconds I would not care.
Take the Paris - Roubaix, a xc bike which has been shown to be faster over the 50?km of cobblestone by a decent margin, if this led to the race being ridden by these bikes, it would in my mind strip all the pain and glory from the race which makes it so special, far from progression in my mind.
  • - 2
 Exactly and AMEN!
  • + 21
 So what you're saying is that downhill racers should only be allowed to ride on klunkers with coaster brakes? Or where do we draw the line?

Road racing dudes are more conservative than the pope, they wouldn't try anything new even if they were allowed. Unless it's something you can inject.
  • + 6
 @Luthman: yeah, but they were using e-bikes long before it was cool Wink
  • + 2
 I dunno, I've seen a fair amount of progression in terms of suspension and different tire widths etc being tried and developed for the Paris - Roubaix in the past, whether it worked or not. Besides that seems like a unique race that is supposed to be more challenging & difficult, similar to how I would classify the Redbull Hardline.

I personally don't have a problem with 29er DH bikes and I say give them a try... If the sport becomes boring like Formula 1 then consider making some rules to restrict things but don't knock it till you've tried it imo.
  • + 2
 @SonofBovril:
The question is:
Did Formula 1 become boring because of the many regulations?
From an asthetical point if view definitely. The cars look quite similar to each other.
No different concepts in aerodynamics, supension, tyres, motor...
  • + 1
 Maybe DH should stay "conservative" like roadies and hide some motors in the frame too. What's faster than gravity? Electricity!
  • + 1
 Unless there's a UCI rule regarding wheel size, it's fair game.
  • + 1
 How long until we see Ratboy and the 50/01 crew on these? Or maybe the rat jumped off the syndicate ship because of this?
I'm only playing devil's advocate here though, I ride a 29er and love it. Though I hear the Atherton's are going to fit zorbing balls to their treks soon.
  • + 1
 Greg Minnaar is like 6'3 I believe. I think people with his height are going to have a slight advantage when it comes to riding 29 DH bikes. At least that is my hunch. This will definitely be another exciting season of DH...can't wait for it to all begin!!
  • + 1
 guess it had to happen sooner or later....wonder what the next "innovation" will be....so if the syndicate team are faster on 29ers once everyone else is on them can we expect to see Minnaar on a 30" wheeled bike next season. And then it all begins again.... Sure 29ers have some good attributes but its not as simple as bigger wheels equals faster as otherwise lets just skip to the max size possible and settle on that rather then have the manufacturers screw all the consumers over year after year with contradicting statements of whats really best. so whats next 30" dh fatbikes or some other crazy mess? oh and the santacruz looks messed up. looks too fragile and by that i mean the frame looks too spindly.

so all what was said a couple years back was bullshit then......29 good for xc but not good for dh and now lets forget most of that as we launch into the era of 29 for everything...as for people choosing between 27.5 or 29 depending on track....that might happen for half the season but i bet after this year 27.5 will be given the same treatment that 26" wheeled bikes got. Karma i suppose but i dont think any wheel size should be dropped. but if the manufacturers dont make it what ya gonna do. i had someone i know joke about the size of my 26" wheeled bike looking like a childs bike yet hes older than me so must have been riding a "childs" bike himself for the best part of 20+ years. Hes a decent bloke and i dont think he meant it in a bad way its just surprising how quickly peoples views change. trust me its 29 inch wheels or bigger from here on out.

those poor wheels are gonna need some help........BOOST 2 anyone?


26 4 life
  • + 1
 YAHHH!!! Over 500 comments and counting!! This is a watershed moment in time in the gravity world. You'll be able to look back and tell your grandchildren "I remember the day those bastards pushed the 29ers onto the DH stage and Pinkbike's comment section almost imploded..."
  • + 5
 I bet it whips like a sail boat.
  • + 6
 Shockwave will blow spectators off the final hip at Fort William
  • + 5
 People are whipping motos so that shouldn't be a problem
  • + 2
 Let's all take a moment to also appreciate the first image where the new whip is casually posed at some glamorous European manse. I love it.
  • + 3
 im curious to see the time difference among 26" 27,5" & 29" on the same track...
  • + 1
 "Chris King machined a one-off design they call ISO-AB (Asymmetric Boost) to get everything in sync" - Perfect!

Looks like should visit whatswrongwithmtb.com regularly.
  • + 1
 @GloryDownhillMark: Yes they should , but they probably won't because of a "perceived" advantage. How many of the smaller UCI DH riders are riding 26 ? They moved with the times. Bring on more neg props !
  • + 4
 The wheels are just.... so big.
  • + 0
 Let me get this right. A fairly large bike manufacturer wants to make a 29" DH rig and one to the things holding them back is the large suspension company's forks, which they do not make. So the customer has to wait for 3 years for the suspension company to get their act together/get more bike manufacturers interested in the idea?! C'mon Fox
  • + 3
 I love that this has annoyed some people. It's a 29er . . . So what? Get over it and yourselves you precious things.
  • + 3
 Everyone's like: 27.5 ain't dead and I'm just sitting here with my 26"bike in my garage...
  • + 2
 I get it for racing. But as freerider, 29 doesn't work. If this size slowly begins to look like its becoming the new standard...........I'm going back to motto!!
  • + 4
 And I for one welcome our new 29er overlords.
  • + 2
 Man im happy because of this bike...me personally like 29ers and i have never rode DH bike but this will spit in face to all those 29 haters. 29er FTW !
  • + 2
 One clear message I'm taking away from this is that Chris King machinists and the Buzzworks group are some talented and nimble blokes.
  • + 3
 Well, I feel like a pilgrim on my 26er. Good thing I pack extra straw in my wheels.
  • + 0
 I see this working out for Minnar since hes a giant but am curious about others. I dont hate the additional bike options but I am not on the 29" train (except for XC). I converted pretty quickly to 27.5 but i am still hesitant on the 29
  • + 1
 Bigger wheels make sense for raw speed, it's that simple. The product development hasn't been there, but now it is. I am hoping people can just get out of the "Wheel Size Warzone" and ride what makes sense for them.
  • + 0
 i would love that some of top guy gets nice company how would give them big $$ and bike with 26'' wheels.
like in year when all where riding 27,5, that year ratboy won with 26 Big Grin and on 27,5 broke leg Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

and they won the WC, than these stupid changes and every year new standards would fuc** off Smile
it more sounds like marketing article to me Wink
  • + 4
 Now they just need to update GM's O'neal kit!
  • + 2
 Just trawling through the net and you can see a host of others implying the move to #DH29 like Mondraker, Commencal, Specialized, intense, Trek, Cube, Giant, even NS Bikes.
  • + 1
 NS Bikes - Slawek Lukasik is already running on 29er Fuzz, saw him in the Bike Park on it.
  • + 2
 In dh ski they use longer ski... dh bike is a discipline where stability and speed are the goal... walk over rock and trees...
  • + 1
 I'm thinking everybody feels they need to carry speed in Cairns for World Champs. So Cairns World Champs -> 29" DH Wheels -> Wide Flange Spaced DH Boost.

Thanks Australia and Far North Queensland. Thanks.
  • + 4
 Intense did it in 2009 with the 2951, so what's the news?
  • + 3
 And I thought 26 prices had bottomed out already this should help them plummet further.
  • + 3
 DH on 29's ... it really is the end of days
  • + 2
 Here it is, the first (iron) horseman of the apocalypse. We knew this day would come
  • - 1
 " Let the rim destruction begin "
Why don' these manufacturers figure out how there suspension is working before trying to go faster, you can put any wheel on but it ain't going to do squat if your suspension is not on par. For gods sake they just started to use data acquisition on suspension.
  • + 2
 In related news, the Syndicate announced a new line of spandex skin suits for race day.
  • + 2
 Greg admits on Twitter that there is some assistance buzz from the back wheel.Time will tell if it's fatal????
  • + 1
 What does that mean? I've never heard of assistance buzz?
Thanks
  • + 3
 @andrew9: Hahaha, damn phone. Its "butt buzz" - i.e the back wheel may try to tear you a new one at times.
  • + 1
 I was wondering how they were gonna get around the butt buzz and the high BB...
  • + 1
 @SonofBovril: Special reinforced kevlar pants methinks :-)
  • + 2
 It was an incredible surprise to me the first time my Jedi reminded my butt how close the tire can get. I thought A-line had an infestation of some kind that was targeting peoples rectums.
  • + 3
 Bring back real dh tracks and 26"
  • - 1
 Thank you!!
  • + 7
 yeah totally... like the mamoth kamikaze and skin suits
  • + 2
 And you too can own one of the latest and greatest for the low low price of $12,995!
  • + 2
 The gap between racing and having fun is widening. I still have fun on 26. And 160cm am skisWink
  • + 3
 When you leave your Hightower and V10 in the shed together
  • + 1
 I'm 5'5" and I'm on 26" for both my spesh enduro and wilson...and I suck...will 29ers make me awesome?..doubt it...but I do believe 29er DH will podium very soon.
  • + 3
 I'm gonna stick with my 26" until the 31ers are commonplace.
  • + 3
 Now we know why Peaty retired.....
  • + 2
 He's laughing over a few pints right now
  • + 2
 The future scares me.... when will they release the 32er? I don't wanna live in that world!
  • + 1
 32" and 36" MTBs already exist... just not on full suspension frames, yet.
  • + 1
 HAHAHAHA I love that it's all of your beloved Syndicates. They were so bad last year they have to do something like this... terrible.
  • + 1
 I have nothing against 29ers in DH. What's more, I cannot wait what will be the results of Syndicate team! This is inevitable progress so deal with it.
  • + 0
 When we start comparing EWS tracks to DH tracks and claims that 29ers are just as fast, we have failed at having legitimate DH races on the world cup and should all just pack it up and go home.
  • + 3
 3.....2.....1.... Haters will come
  • + 1
 cant wait to see the time compairisons in real world. also i dont think all dh could go 29" could they? i mean the park riders cant want 29" to do tricks with.
  • + 2
 I'll never own one so I don't really care, 26, 27.5 or 29. I ride what I can afford.
  • + 2
 After yesterdays vid of the new world cup track, this is no surprise................
  • + 2
 Could you leave some link for the vid?
  • + 3
 I love that! Bring on the big wheelers
  • + 1
 I can't keep up with the bike industry any more where are we now 9 spd 10 spd 11 spd 12 spd
  • + 3
 Hahahah, what a shit.
  • + 2
 As Loci Bruni said go home with your 29 wheels
  • + 3
 #26'forLife
  • + 1
 Whatever works, ride it.
  • + 1
 Psh, bunch of wusses.. REAL riders still run the park on 20"!
Looking forward to Rampage riders on 40" tractor tires
  • + 2
 Giving Greg 210mm travel and 29" wheels?... It's going to be a massacre!
  • + 2
 Lenz Sport was doing 29 DH back in 2009-2010, I believe.
  • - 1
 This is so exciting, and a great article as well!! While i feel bad that some great riders will automatically be out of luck since they aren't on a 29er, this is an awesome moment for the sport.
  • + 2
 Specialized Demo in 3,2,1......
  • + 2
 This is just a holdover until 27+ takes over...
  • + 2
 Its only faster until everybody has one.
  • + 2
 Next year : V10 in 30.5 inch #29aintdead !!!
  • + 2
 The wheels make the bike and all its parts look too small
  • - 1
 well time to murder the whole bike industry and start back over. Or maybe we need to \design all the dh tracks with tight turns and big hits so we can get those pathetic little wagon wheels to fold over
  • + 2
 So us 26" riders will be the 1%
  • + 1
 is the rear triangle on those full bike shots of the v10, aluminium? I'm sure I can see weld lines on them.
  • + 1
 The most exciting racing going huh Eli Tomac would kick your ass for saying that
  • + 2
 Lol here we go again, first 27.5 now 29 oh boy
  • + 2
 28.25" coming soon you heard it here first
  • + 3
 Monster Truck!
  • + 3
 How many up votes can I give this guy Wink
  • + 2
 Ffs the wheel size thing again?!??!
  • + 1
 This is awesome! The v10 is already a beast and now with bigger wheels it can literally monster truck over anything Big Grin
  • + 2
 Let's see this in action and then we'll see what's dead and what's not.
  • + 1
 Isn't it ironic that the last team to accept 650breakyourspine is the first to embrace 29?
  • + 1
 Well, this will kill those thoughts about figuring out which is faster. Let the games begin!
  • + 1
 Im 5ft 3in - I can't see caring about his (cuz ill never be-able ride one).
  • + 1
 So is this ISO boost just normal boost or are we looking at new dimension, like another one in what, 2 months?
  • + 2
 it's 20x110 boost, ie. the disc brake has been moved slightly outwards to accomodate wider spoke flanges
  • + 2
 @SonofBovril: So the same as one shown in sea otter videos, ok got me worried for a second there
  • + 3
 F*ck that's a big bike
  • + 2
 I hope 29 finds its way to DJ. My jackal's always been too maneuverable.
  • + 3
 Still no worldcup win Razz
  • + 3
 i just got a 29ner,
  • + 1
 Its a good job SC are owned by a company big enough to enable them to make the investment that quickly.
  • + 2
 I never wanted Gwin to Win so bad .
  • + 2
 It's about time....Looking forward to the WC season!!
  • + 1
 they have made it more Entertaining cant wait to see those wheels on a Muddy track .
  • + 2
 Ya but does it fit on a Whistler Chairlift!!!!??!!!!!
  • - 2
 What's the fastest thing across rough off road terrain? Moto enduro bike. What's the weapon of choice for moto free style? A motocross bike. One bike designed to be fast, one bike designed to be chucked around. They look pretty similar in terms of geometry to me. Don't see too may free style moto boys running small wheel 80's . Maybe mountain bikers need to man up? Hit the gym? Certainly stay the fcuk away from a full size dirt bike if you can't maneouver a 29er???

Lights touch paper
Stands well back
  • + 2
 What's next? 29er trials bike for Danny MacAskill??
  • + 1
 or 29ers on Rampage?
  • + 1
 In addition the route of the bikes of DH is not noticed to have wheels so great Look like XC or enduro bikes
  • + 1
 27.5 is dead.....hyped it and sold everyone on it.......back to 29ers bro......... mean while Gwin wins on his 27.5
  • + 2
 Once you blow that horn you're a member of the band
  • + 2
 I like to ride my bike... that is all
  • - 3
 So gay. Whats next? boost 250/1,000,000 on a 31.5" wheel that people say is a misnomer cuz The effective rim dia. is closer to 29.9". I could probably afford to buy this bike, but whats the point? Bike will be completely redesigned by 2019. Ultimately 29ers and the people are obsessed with them are gay. Why haven't the become common place on the DH racing scene sooner if they are so much better.
  • + 5
 Tone down the "gay" comments there tiger... I know several gay men, and women, who could snap you in two and outride you on their worst day.
  • + 1
 Too bad Fox won't give em red decals and a red coil.
  • + 1
 anyone knows the fork offset and headangle of this machine?
  • + 1
 At this point add another seat and its a tandem..
  • + 1
 Steve come back, at last they made bike that suits you!
  • + 0
 HONESTLY ALL OUR OTHER COMPONENTS ARE LARGER THAN A WALMART BIKE, IT KIND OF MAKES SENCE THAT OUR WHEELS ARE TOO
  • + 1
 YEEEEEEEHAAAWWWW I WANT IT
  • + 1
 Win on Sunday sell on Monday!
  • + 1
 Hot damn! I want one. It's about time I say.....
  • + 1
 I love the liquid metal paint job. Very YT...
  • + 1
 It's all going downhill now...
  • + 2
 Sign me up!
  • + 1
 Huuuuu yaaaa!!! Finally! Wish I could soon demo a 29er downhill bike Smile
  • + 1
 OMG its actually real after all this time IT IS OFFICIAL
  • + 2
 i want one, now!!!!!!
  • + 2
 Witchcraft!
  • + 1
 Can't wait to see how it does!!
  • + 2
 Game changer!!!!
  • + 1
 And 26 has finally left the building
  • + 2
 VOMIT ALERT, PLEASE!!!
  • - 1
 I just want to know why there is all this uproar about 26ers being just as good... If they were just as good they wouldn't be DEAD
  • + 0
 I talk about this 10 year's ago $$$
  • + 0
 I will never own a 29er dh bike.
  • + 1
 26 in life support! FML
  • + 0
 Hold on! Maybe i should buy one of these new bikes.......
  • + 0
 WHERE'S THE NEWMAD?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
  • + 0
 Is that Peaty's nutsack on the right side of the first pic? ...
  • + 1
 ????????????
  • + 0
 Cue all the twenty-whiners...
  • - 3
 You mean all the roadies that think they can dirt?!
  • + 0
 I WAS RIGHT !!!!! Wink Wink Wink
  • - 1
 World cup is to see which rider is faster. As long as ALL of them are running the same size, it's a fair race.
  • + 0
 Speechless. This is fuuucked. It looks like Minar is b-curious.
  • + 0
 The "enduro" crowd figured this out about 18 months ago.
  • + 1
 BRAAAAAAAAAAAAPPP
  • + 1
 It`s just a big bluff.
  • + 1
 #chrissugai
  • + 1
 #runwhatyoubrung
  • + 1
 24" out back for life...
  • + 1
 "We will see Sunday"
  • + 0
 Sad times!
  • + 0
 #26isnotdead f*ckers!
  • + 0
 #275isdead
  • + 0
 SWEEET!
  • - 1
 fu ck 29ers
  • - 2
 I'm 5ft 6ins tall, thats me fucted then..
  • + 1
 29ers are no taller than a similar 27.5 bike because the 29 tends to have around 20mm less travel.
  • + 1
 "f*cked"
  • - 1
 shit just got real.....
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