Letter from the Editor: Pinkbike’s Next Chapter with Outside

Jul 14, 2021
by Brian Park  
The legendary Photo #1 was uploaded by Radek Burkat many, many years ago.

This is the first photo ever uploaded to Pinkbike. The image of Rob Stevens dropping off a bank in Calgary, Alberta is the perfect representation of what this site has always stood for: riding bikes with your friends and sharing that with the community.

Pinkbike founder Radek Burkat had spent his twenties playing other sports, but it wasn’t until he connected with mountain biking that he found his passion. He knew he’d found a sport he really loved because he was still eager to do it solo, but he did want to share it. He cringes now at how cheesy it sounds, but he started Pinkbike in 1998 to help others connect with mountain biking in the same way he had.

Shaped by those glory days of early freeride, Pinkbike was built by a crew who wanted to share the ride with their friends through photos, videos, and stories—long before social media was a twinkle in Myspace Tom’s bionic eye.

Early PB pics
Radek's early days on the bike.
Setting up Pinkbike’s first servers.


A new chapter with Outside.

We’re excited to announce today that Pinkbike has been acquired by Outside, the world’s leading active lifestyle platform. Established in 1977, Outside Magazine was founded by Lawrence Burke, and the publication broke ground on the entire outdoor media industry. Its history is filled with iconic titles, with some of the world’s most talented writers and authentic storytelling.

The new Outside, founded in 2019 by Robin Thurston, acquired Outside Magazine and OutsideTV in February 2021. Headquartered in Boulder, CO, Outside has offices across the US, Canada, in Europe, and now Australia. They own Outside Magazine, OutsideTV, Peloton Magazine, Bicycle Retailer, Beta MTB, GaiaGPS, Roll Massif, BikeReg, Ski Magazine, Warren Miller Films, and many more titles and services. Robin’s vision of bringing all these brands together into one organization is to build a more personalized experience for all active people.

The crew

What does this mean for Pinkbike?

Pinkbike’s mission to be the pulse of mountain biking and to share the ride with the global mountain bike community doesn’t change, only now we have more resources and capabilities to take on even bigger and better projects.

Our head office remains in Squamish, BC, and we’re about to move into a brand new office space with way more room to grow. We’ll also have access to new equipment and improved test facilities for more scientific, objective product evaluations.

The entire Pinkbike editorial staff is now part of Outside. Karl and Radek are involved in senior leadership positions, I continue to oversee editorial, and Kaz, Levy, Sarah, Christina, Ben, James, Alicia, Jason, Tom, Other Tom, Henry, Seb, Max, Ed, Devan, Matt, Other Matt, Dan, and the rest of our team are all on board. The Outside team has been incredibly welcoming, and we’re fired up to get some of our new projects off the ground.

bigquotesI’m thrilled to announce that Outside has acquired three of the strongest brands in the cycling category: Pinkbike, CyclingTips, and Trailforks. Today’s additions to the Outside portfolio represent a giant step toward achieving our mission of becoming the world’s leading creator of active living content, experiences, travel, and services.

There’s obviously a lot of work ahead of us, so I’m excited to welcome Radek, Karl, and their teams to the Outside family. (read more over on Bicycle Retailer)
Robin Thurston, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at Outside


Pinkbike’s content and services have long been paid for with an advertising model, while our new parent company offers some features of their titles in a subscription called Outside+.

Subscribers get digital access to members-only content, exclusive shows, hundreds of virtual health, fitness, cooking, and outdoor classes, free books, personalized, ad-free experiences at Outside Online, a subscription to Gaia GPS, training plans, and discounts on everything from gear to race-entry fees to event photography.

In the coming months we’ll be digging into how Pinkbike can best support the Outside platform and make their offerings even more compelling. While our long term business model will evolve, a significant portion of our content will remain free. We’re thrilled about the ideas on the table already.


A challenge to our new sister brand - Beta MTB.

We’re taking this opportunity to formally challenge our new sister publication Beta MTB to a very serious mountain bike competition. We’ll look at the calendar and figure out the best time and venue, but we’re going to have to throw down for ultimate bike dork supremacy. Hat tip to @johnski for the idea.

We’ll race the Grim Donut, we’ll do some early freeride video trivia, timed fork rebuilds, longest skid, World Cup quizzes, Impossible Climbs on a tandem, etc… I’ve got the Pinkbike crew training already so it’s time to start doing pushups Palmer!

Thank you to the community.

Radek set out 23 years ago to connect riders, and along the way the community here at Pinkbike has taken on a life of its own. All of us here want to say thank you for making this place what it is today. The changes on the horizon are exciting, and we hope you’ll bring your salty, irreverent, priceless selves along for the ride.

bigquotesWe founded Pinkbike to show the world how amazing mountain biking is, and to inspire others to get out and ride and fall in love with the sport like we had. Joining Outside gives our team an opportunity to tell stories to an even bigger audience and to collaborate with world-class journalists at the other brands and sports in our new family.

We’re also thrilled to bring our Trailforks technology and community into the ecosystem that Outside is building. In partnership with Gaia, we intend to map every trail in America, and eventually the world, so that Outside+ members can ride, hike, run, and ski with greater confidence and safety.
Radek Burkat, Pinkbike Founder

We’re honoured by the faith the Outside team is putting in us, and we’re eager to start Pinkbike’s next chapter.

Thank you,
Brian Park, Head of Editorial

PS. Full review tomorrow, looks like a Session, etc. etc.

Author Info:
brianpark avatar

Member since Dec 29, 2010
214 articles

  • 2973 26
 "While our long term business model will evolve, a significant portion of our content will remain free."

Welp, it's been a good run. Thanks for everything Pinkbike. I fear change and can only assume this is the end as we know it.
  • 359 2
 Press F
  • 392 2
 It is the beginning of the end
  • 637 2
 Bye bye Pinkbike!! It was a good run.Thanks for the good times. Let the watering down begin.
  • 635 16
 quick! eveyone bail to vital!
  • 353 857
flag brianpark FL Editor (Jul 14, 2021 at 6:23) (Below Threshold)
 A lot of us grew up with Pinkbike and it's a weirdly-large part of who I am, so I get being nervous about this change. I do think it's good to be skeptical as well, but I hope the community will come along for the ride and see how it goes. I firmly believe that this was the best possible way to take Pinkbike to the next level, and we're planning on working hard to prove it to you.
  • 625 29
 @adrennan: Vital is the new pinkbike! See you all there!
  • 522 4
 I go to Enduro MTB for the reviews, mtbr when I want to learn how to fix something, and I come here for the comments. Please do not put the comments behind a paywall. It’s 30% of my daily entertainment.
  • 627 2
 @brianpark: I will at least be interested to see for sure how it goes. but if Outside goes on a monetizing spree and the basic content people come here for starts costing money, don't expect people to stay. One of the great values of pinkbike is the comment section and that requires a critical mass of people to make it. look at comments on all the other sites, maybe a few comments on most articles? once in a while they will have one that really engages the people. pinkbike articles are almost always over 100 comments. if that dies, pinkbike as we know it dies.
  • 84 1
 @adrennan: we have had 1000 comments on the Gwin to Specialized article IIRC. I once saw seven on Dirt.
  • 131 57
 @adrennan: agreed! The comments section is a huge part of PB and it's not going anywhere.
  • 39 1
 Specialized and Gwin part ways. 1000+ comments. No wonder they want to monetise the site.
  • 47 207
flag jamessmurthwaite (Jul 14, 2021 at 6:33) (Below Threshold)
 @jaame: And they were all "bring back print" if I remember correctly!
  • 163 1
 @brianpark: from a purely non content related aspect so it may not fall in your wheelhouse. Keep the buysell free!
  • 49 4
 @brianpark: It will just be moderated for your safety.
  • 332 1
 Well, as a dedicated PB user for 20 years, this is truly disappointing. I can live with ad revenue, but not subscriptions. More NSMB in my future, I guess.
  • 515 5
 @brianpark: See, but maybe you’re the only one wanting to go to “the next level.” What does that even mean? This constant need to expand and grow maybe isn’t always necessary. Maybe just sit back and admire the cool thing you’ve built and go “yeah, let’s keep doing what we’re doing!”
  • 171 2
 I want to believe Brian. I really do. I do t blame the founders…everyone wants and needs the payout. But this is the beginning of the end. It’s been good.
  • 159 363
flag brianpark FL Editor (Jul 14, 2021 at 6:46) (Below Threshold)
 @kylar: agreed that growth isn't the only good in life. But honestly? I want to go racing. I was bitterly disappointed we couldn't get our plans to help privateers with a race team off the ground this year, and I'm hopeful that with Outside's support big projects like that will get easier to make happen.
  • 345 5
 @brianpark: but why did PB have to go to the "next level"?

Very seldom is this good in the long run.
  • 150 0
 @AverageAdventurer: Buysell would be the biggest thing I'm concerned about. So many of my bikes have been bought and made from the Pinkbike buysell section.
  • 43 0
 Is PunkBike.com for sale?
  • 170 0
 @brianpark: why does everything always have to go to "the next level"?
  • 251 1
 I avoid going to Beta because of the paywall, don’t bring the same infuriating BS here. I already pay for Trailforks and that’s about my limit.
  • 165 7
 @brianpark: sorry dude, the next level is DEAD.
  • 224 8
 Yeah, change will happen. But lets give the fine folks at PB the benefit of the doubt until we see otherwise. So far they have given us everything we wanted and more. They constantly add stuff based on fan input like Saturday Sends and are actively involved in the comments about video vs. pics for bike checks etc. If they sell out and do subscriptions and limit shitloads of access then we can bash them to hell and back but until that happens, they are our people! I will hope (possibly in vain) that they will be allowed to continue their excellent coverage and access and that the influx of funding will help to bring even more to the table. But I will join you all as the one of the first to bitch if the access is in fact greatly limited by untenable subscription models.
  • 92 1
 @wilsonians: bu...but i already got my pitchfork out. now what do I do with it if I can't riot today.
  • 119 0
 @brianpark: "I firmly believe that this was the best possible way to take Pinkbike to the next level" what exactly does this mean ? What level wasn't Pinkbike getting to in its current form ? I can only see this change as a negative for us users. I suppose the founders want to retire and we can't fault them for wanting to cash out...but I have a hard time spinning this into a positive.
  • 85 1
 @jamessmurthwaite: Freehub Magazine is pretty killer right now.
  • 109 0
 @brianpark: I’d be a lot less skeptical if pocket/outside wasn’t VC funded, www.crunchbase.com/organization/pocket-outdoor-media … outside investors add more pressure on companies to do weasely things, sadly, which can kill a community.
  • 124 472
flag brianpark FL Editor (Jul 14, 2021 at 7:09) (Below Threshold)
 @DGWW @pdxkid @JDFF Over the last 10+ years I've seen many of our friends at other media titles living with the constant turmoil of failing media companies, largely driven by a refusal to evolve their businesses. I'd never want that for our team, and I hate saying no to big projects.

I did love my 2004 Banshee Scream, but it's a 2021 Stumpjumper Evo world, so I'm excited for that 'next level.'
  • 284 16
 @brianpark: Are you saying that Pinkbike was sold because it was a failing business ? What you are talking about is adapting, and I think we'd all be OK with Pinkbike adapting. Selling out to a large company isn't adapting or evolving. Thats throwing in the towel , so your founders can retire.
  • 128 1
 "Outside", what a great name for paid content provider Smile I will definitely be "outside".
  • 16 4
 @brianpark: Good luck and stay strong. You know you've got something special here (I can only think of one other site with readers who can be consistently trusted not to quickly descend into internet trolldom) and you will have to be strong to keep it. New management will thank you in the long run, they bought what it is not a project (otherwise i'd be posting this on nsmb).
  • 395 4
 "You have used 8 out of your 10 free views to Pinkbike. Subscribe to our monthly plan for unlimited access!"
  • 66 1
 @brianpark: What if you had to pay $5 per month to unlock the suspension and use the dropper post? No thanks.
  • 102 25
 Been checking PB less and less over the last year or two. Mostly do to ebikes, and articles turning to videos. I don’t think I’m in PB’s future demographic of rich middle aged guy. Bye Pinkbike. Was a great run.
  • 33 0
 @adrennan: and NSMB
their articles are some of the best
  • 24 0
 Wonder what was your price?
  • 103 13
 @pdxkid: because capitalism

nothing is ever good enough. nothing.
  • 27 1
 @brianpark: It's not going anywhere but now you'll have to pay for it.
  • 7 0
 @brianpark: You mentioned a race team above. Would the new found resources and access to sponsors with bigger marketing budgets mean PB could possibly help bring back local racing or help local organizers connect with sponsors that could help?
  • 59 5
 Well, can't say I'm surprised. Over the last couple of years there has been an exponential growth in content that has next to nothing to do with mountain bikes, but with a heavy focus on sh*t topics that are guaranteed to generate a ton of user engagement. Something is always about to change when it suddenly becomes important to include every single thinkable and unthinkable potential user group. ..
  • 90 3
 @brianpark: noone wants pinkbikes to go to the "next level". Its already gotten out of control.
2 thumbs down.
  • 133 0
 @brianpark I really want to believe that Pinkbike can hold onto its character and values but the list of Outside's current titles is basically a list of magazines/sites I've stopped reading after their content and tone changed following an Outside acquisition. I hope Pinkbike can be the exception and we don't start seeing Outside style listicles on which trendy products are "essential" for post ride beers.
  • 3 0
 @mammal: dont dare to post your spy shots over there man!
  • 29 0
 @Chief2slo: They were only using Beta as a tester.
  • 61 0
 @brianpark: if you go down the road of beta where most reviews worth reading are behind the paywall, I'm out. Bikemag used to get equal traffic from me as pb and vital, now I just go there when I'm really bored while taking a shit.

I'm fine with ads but I won't be paying a monthly suscription, not even for Dan Roberts reviews.
  • 23 24
 @brianpark: if this means more Cathro content I’m in.
  • 99 16
 @brianpark: Got so excited to read the comments when I saw this article.

This is simple scalability and hope it works well for the Pinkbike staff with additional benefits, insurance, retirement, pay, ect. Unfortunately being "punk" doesn't have a retirement plan or cover 85%+ of a knee surgery. The staff will need to make more money to afford rising MTB costs. It's not like Sarah, Levy and Kaz are dentists.

Speaking of.... ever notice every dentist office has Outside Magazine in it ? Did Pinkbike just get purchased by a Dental conglomerate ?
  • 65 2
 So thats why we saw levy less and less
  • 77 4
 Please, PLEASE! Don't screw up TrailForks - it's managed to survive this long and become the leader in MTB maps. I, as I assume many do, pay the meager yearly fee not just for the added functionality, but mostly to support it.
  • 89 1
 @kylar: that’s my question too. Honestly, when I hear that phrase, “go to the next level “, I can’t help but think this is just about stakeholders going to the next income level.
  • 18 10
 @DGWW: I think at some point, these "independent" publications reach a point where advertising just don't cut it anymore. PB have a lot of people on staff and I'm sure their overhead bill is pretty high. I think its naïve to think that these guys can continue to grow on a free service model and without outside investment. Free is always a failing business model in a capitalist society.
  • 7 1
 @pdxkid: ‘Murrica! Oh wait.
  • 49 0
 @brianpark: Love the optimism. Out of curiosity, did you read any of the publications Outside now owns before?

Frankly, I can live without Pinkbike. It's Trailforks I'm really going to miss
  • 9 17
flag skierdud89 (Jul 14, 2021 at 7:45) (Below Threshold)
 @ne-spoked-b: If you're not here to take up pitchforks with the rest of the angry mob you will be escorted out.
People will only think of how this effects them personally in a yet to be unknown way instead of thinking of how it helps PB like you mentioned.
  • 17 13
 @JDFF: because if you aren't growing, you are dead in the modern economy. it's gross and unstustainable, but is what it is. You can't build a brand that just carries on making good money and employing people. you're either 10x-ing shit, or getting swallowed up by bigger fish. see also: this
  • 60 100
flag pistol2ne (Jul 14, 2021 at 7:48) (Below Threshold)
 @brianpark: hey, at least you can write your woke oppressor vs Opressed opinion articles on a larger outdoor platform.

Better finally make a vital account, womp womp.
  • 59 0
 @brianpark: You imply there is a next level. Frown Maybe Pinkbike was at the pinnacle, maybe what made Pinkbike what it was was the fact you didn't have the resources. Getting the resources also means you need to get the returns.

I wish you and the site the best of luck, but more money flowing into things like this rarely result in improvements. It almost always involves appealing to a wider audience.
  • 37 1
 @brianpark: I'd rather Pinkbike crowd fund a race team than pay for it with mandatory subscriptions. That way those who actually care can feel invested, and those who don't needn't worry about it.
  • 23 0
 @kylar: Exactly, Pinkbike made the Grim Doughnut! That to me was a signal that something perfect had been created. Outside is probably going to have it destroyed because it doesn't align with their insurance policy.
  • 37 1
 100% agreed, I can stomach paying for the Trailforks subscription but once parts of pinkbike go behind paywalls that will mean the end of the site for me @Chief2slo:
  • 99 121
flag brianpark FL Editor (Jul 14, 2021 at 7:58) (Below Threshold)
 @Rigidjunkie: if we have to cancel the Donut I'm out. Razz

(The Donut v2 starts fabrication next week)
  • 6 0
 @snowwcold55: that was already a thing; Plus membership. But as you can see very few in the comments are plus members.
  • 71 1
 @brianpark: that’s a good metaphor because the 2021 Stumpjumper Evo is notorious for systematically cannibalizing any shock that is mounted to it
  • 10 108
flag jimmythehat (Jul 14, 2021 at 8:10) (Below Threshold)
 @brianpark: would love to know why so many downvotes on that, comments section is frequented by so many sheep it’s embarrassing
  • 32 0
 @eblackwell: Good point. I’d pay for more content from Cathro, Dan Wolfe, and others. But if I’m Cathro why not just own and monetize my audience directly through YouTube, Patreon, and brand sponsors. I just hope Pinkbike doesn’t go to sh!t in pursuit of the ‘next level’ like Whistler has after being acquired by Vail Resorts.
  • 101 1
 @brianpark: I look forward to a race team. Gaining access to the purse strings of a massive corporation will be a big step towards realizing some of your bigger projects. But it doesn’t come without it’s own costs. You now have consumers, shareholders, and a board of directors to keep happy, and shareholders don’t care about pinkbike, they care about dividends, and the board doesn’t care about pinkbike, they care about shareholders. I’m sure there are intricacies to managing a site like pinkbike that most of us will never understand, but, without attempting to sound too dramatic you’ve made the proverbial “deal with the devil.” That’s not taking a shot at outside by calling them the devil, purely metaphorical. I guess the point I’m trying to make is the growth that you refer to does come at a cost. You will unfortunately be subject to people from beyond the mtb sphere making decisions about a website that you (pinkbike staff as a group) have previously had a huge amount of control over. I wish you all nothing but the best and I hope this venture goes far better than most commenters are predicting.
  • 23 0
 @brianpark: Just let me keep shit posting and I'll be happy
  • 27 0
 Pay for pinkbike?? Lol......!!
  • 23 3
  • 35 0
 @brianpark: haven't you heard "if it ain't broke don't fix it"??
  • 141 2
 @gmiller720: For the first time in my life I wish waki was here to say something
  • 75 1
 @theoskar57: As a government worker, I believe the correct quote is "If it ain't broke, fix it until it is"
  • 40 4
 @DaFreerider44: I know waki was a little whacky but I always thought he generally provided some great entertainment.
  • 41 1
 @brianpark: it doesn’t need to go to ‘the next level’.
BS corporate jargon like this is what is killing too many good things
  • 5 0
 @DaFreerider44: check his Instagram, not many words needed to sum up this bullshit
  • 127 0
 Its been a good run indeed. But it leaves me with a bitter taste nevertheless to open up the website today to see this after having listened to RC's podcast yesterday. In that he states his opinion about how the crowd made PB what it is today and how no editor should attempt to change it, because it would inevitably ruin the community. And now we've got this. My favourite and pretty much the last "pirate ship"-type sports publication selling out to corporate media. Great.
  • 12 1
 @JWadd: Trailforks saved my butt out in the woods one day, so that's one I definitely don't mind paying for
  • 17 0
 @brianpark: Please tell us you don't actually believe that. This just can not possibly be the best way forward for PB. For all of the corporate bs that it most likely implies for the future of PB, you know it couldn't possibly be true.
  • 40 0
 This has a whiff of what happened at Deadspin: Great, successful independent site with a fantastic user community, bought by a VC-backed company that wanted to monetize it and take it "to the next level." They totally ruined the site, though in that case editors and staff quit en mass and started a new site.

Sadly it seems like here the PB editors (@brianpark at least) are cheerleading for the takeover. Paywall and auto-play video ads in 3...2...1....
  • 44 0
 Is it me or is the Vital site really slow with all the new traffic?
  • 62 7
 OMG What if they monetize Friday Fails Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
  • 18 0
 @kcy4130: I really hope so. Ive been wishing for vital to step up their game for a while now.
  • 34 0
 Welp, we still have Vital
  • 3 23
flag ne-spoked-b (Jul 14, 2021 at 8:50) (Below Threshold)
 @skierdud89: Good point, this could ruin millions of peoples lives behind their computer screens. Hopefully it will helps Pocket Outdoor Media create deeper Omni channel marketing campaigns across many brands and lifestyles. What if some of these people with pitchforks work at some of those brands ? What if their revenue goes up and pay ?

Holy cow, this could be a real conundrum.
  • 9 1
 @yoimaninja: Eh, I probably won't bother with the PinkBike buy/sell anymore. I have still been replicating my facebook marketplace posts on here, but all my recent buyers have come through Facebook.
  • 39 34
 @mammal: ha! nsmb = washed up old men testing bikes lololol
  • 51 0
 Grew up with pink bike when I became mountain bike obsessed in 2010! Part of the reason for me (aside from the comments of course) is that the design hasn’t changed all that much and the ads arent obnoxious like the other revenue generating sites. The consistency and familiarity was reassuring in this online era where everyone’s vying for clicks. But it was only a matter of time before PB cashed out and it’s time to move on.
  • 23 0
 @brianpark: Why does PB need to take it to "the next level'? It is doing great just where it is.
  • 31 0
 @brianpark: "taking Pinkbike to the next level"

Depends on what you do understand by "next level" being owned by a big company means that profit comes above everything else.
I'm afraid that Pinkbike will become another platform for industry adds.

Becoming part of a big group means loosing part of what you are, you're not independent anymore.

Bad news.
  • 56 1
 @brianpark: the next level is BS corporate domination. Kinda like mapping every trail on the planet. Why would you guys want to kill adventure and discovery? Because you can turn it into $.
  • 16 0

Who's going to create Pinkbike 2.0?
  • 12 0
 @brianpark: Comments are going behind a pay wall in 3....2....1....
  • 11 0
 Let's see how long it takes until the content is run down to PR bullshitting and "premium" behind a pay wall.

I have seen this on some sites - if an article generates enough clicks, the AI gives it the "premium" sticker, so you have to be on the site all your time to catch the interesting news and comments for free - or pay for it.
  • 122 0
 In hindsight, the paywall on Trailforks should have been a red flag, it seems obvious now this was PB proving to VCs that a subscription-based monetization model could work with their user base. The lack of pushback there allowed this to happen, frankly. Downvote away, but we allowed this.

Much as I have lived on without Trailforks, I suppose I’ll live on without PB. Bummer though.
  • 35 0
 @brianpark: to the next level of being lame as f*ck.

All Vital needs is a better buy, sell, trade and there’s no reason to miss Pinkbike—at least for most people
  • 10 1
 @thedirtyburritto: always being unsatisfied, wanting the next best thing... absurd.
Pinkbike won't be the same ever after this move.
  • 25 2
 @ThePlt: It has already begun - half of the articles these days lack substance and real thought. They have become click and bait.
  • 6 0
 @robotboy: I'm 41, I fit right in. I guess your holding off for their move into the reality TV game then?
  • 12 0
 @sngltrkmnd: that's exactly what it means.
Some rich guys making more money no matter what.
  • 10 0
 @brianpark: why did it need to go to the next level?
  • 16 0
 @skierdud89: Does it really help Pinkbike or the staff?
I don't think so, it will certainly benefit Outside for a while, until nobody comes here anymore because of paywalls and so.

I sincerely hope the best for the staff.
  • 18 0
 @brianpark: "2021 Stumpjumper Evo World" insert new business model "paid partnership with Specialized Bicycles"
  • 15 1
 @brianpark: You thought you could get a privateer race team together during the uncertainty of a global pandemic?
  • 12 0
 The end is not a point in time, it a progression, like climbing a mountain, but in the case of online forums it has been a gradual descent into a hole ... bring a flashlight and some beer, it won't get any brighter. Wanna see what can become of an on line forum that has had an even steeper descent, look at MTBR or TGR. At least Pinkbike has decent content and they created Trailforks which is worth the price if you ride trails in remote areas.
  • 39 0
 @brianpark: Why not just be honest and say it's all about $$?
  • 34 0
 @brianpark: Shoulda just brought back the Pinkbike Card for added revenue.
I hate being told its about "growth", or the "next level" when its really about money.
  • 75 0
 @brianpark: I think a lot of the PB community are rightly worried, but I can see it both ways.

I would really like to see assurances that PB content as it exists currently will remain the free version, and that any pay wall would only apply for new, additional content. In your article you mentioned training plans, health videos, books etc and that would be a brilliant addition that I would pay a subscription for as it offers new value that you and your competitors don't currently have.

Singletrack, in my opinion, are a great example of what you should NOT do - the only content not behind a pay wall is of far reduced quality to what they did have, and the amount of adverts and pop ups makes the site horrible to use. I've stopped using it completely.

PB is more than a website to many of us, it's a community, in a lot of ways it feels like a tribe or a family. The thought of that sense of togetherness disappearing behind a pay wall, or turning into the free version of Singletrack, feels like I'm being robbed of something which I feel I belong to, and therefore have shared ownership in, even if only emotionally. I hope decisions are made moving forwards which consider us, the readership, as I can see this being a make or break moment for PB and I don't think everyone will stick in it for the full journey.
  • 1 0
 @conoat: I would say that is only true if your product sucks.
  • 20 3
 @the-Dude: pure corny click bait

The podcast is a prime example of how dire the situation has become. Shows about nothing and reaching for words to fill up 90 minutes or less.

It makes sense, however. Gain revenue streams, boost revenue with click bait, sell platform, buy a Tesla. Literally straight out of the play book. The next chapter is where the product sucks because either staff or new owners self destruct the brand
  • 8 0
 @brianpark: it might still exist on the free content, but there will be less engagement on the subscription based stuff when you'll essentially paywall a significant number of users
Look at Singletrackworld for example. You have to pay your membership to access their original content. press release articles and their forum remains free but it feels much quieter then before they switched their model.
  • 3 0
 @jaame: your employer will appreciate that though...
  • 22 0
 @brianpark: it won’t go anywhere if the content remains free. It will be gone if it isn’t free and only 10% of the current users pay up, while the rest of us go elsewhere. PAY A LOT OF ATTENTION TO THIS!
  • 1 1
 @iliasalberto: I was thinking that. While I do read PB from my company PC I have resisted the urge to log in, because I know my productivity will fall dramatically.
  • 26 1
 @kylar: Your comment needs more upvotes. And should be taught in schools or something. If the world could sometimes as you say "just sit back and admire the cool thing you’ve built and go “yeah, let’s keep doing what we’re doing!”" it would be a better place. But instead we got told endless growth in everything is needed and possible and we somehow believed it because f*ck laws of physics.
  • 3 0
 @kcy4130: I went over, created a login and said "Hi!" in the Norco Sight VLT comments section. I think we'll be welcomed. :-)
  • 92 2
 @brianpark: I've been on the site since 2001. Moderator for 10 years.

I honestly hope for the sake of what this site means to the bike community in general that they don't mess with it too much. But the cold reality is companies like this tell you they won't... then they do because they think it will make them more money. You start throwing in paywalls and changing things up too much you'll start to see a significant shift in where people are going.

But I think that is avoidable and not something that's going to happen immediately if it does happen.

Cheers to the old guard.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: And now you wonder? You / We are the reason why.
  • 1 0
 @Texicans: Yeah man....
  • 1 0
 *double-post, derp!*
  • 10 0
 @brianpark: like everything.

Problem is yours/pinkbike's/owner's next level may not be USER'S NEXT LEVEL.

Internet is huge, I've seen sites been born, get huge and die. It's life cycle.

So, let's check it out, what will happen
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: until articles are in "you mus pay, to ser basic"
  • 4 0
 @pdxkid: money...money...and more money
  • 31 0
 I remember when surfline.com put out a similar message. Now all the "significant amount of free content" is a brand supported video or article that is a long winded advertisement. Anything that sparks interest prompts you to a login. "Winter wetsuit buyers guide sponsored by Billabong" hard to make an informed decision when all the choices are from the same brand.
  • 20 1
 Goodbye pinkbike
  • 16 12
 Really glad the iteration of this comment that includes the phrase "I fear change" is the one being upvoted over all the others
  • 33 1
 If you're descending in an elevator the level below the one you are currently at is the next level. Just sayin'.
  • 6 1
 @brianpark @mikekazmier @mikelevy - hope you boys are getting a phat raise!
  • 4 0
 @onemanarmy: all they have to do is read through the comments and see the level of love and the recipe to keep this incredible community, for the most part, intact.
  • 25 0
 VTVolk's comment is likely to end up being the most upvoted in the site's history. Shame he won't get the plaudits at the end of the year when PB do an article on most popular comments and hide it behind a paywall.
  • 7 3
 @kylar: If they would have stuck to what they've built, then we would not have field trip, inside the tape, the privateer or any of other stuff that wasn't present when Radek first started pinkbike.
No, I'm not a fan of subscription content, but let's just wait and see which content will remain free. We can still switch to all the other websites once the content section ends up behind the pay wall...
  • 42 0
 Most upvoted comments of the year:
1. Redacted
  • 7 7
 @brianpark: Where's Levy? Why are u only responding? Maybe your part of this whole thing......imagine if Pinkbike had a Purge......
  • 14 0
 Sad. Goodbye Pinkbike & thank you for so many years of great & free content. Frown
  • 160 2
 Radek once stated that PB would never be a pay site, ever. I guess that lasted 2 decades.. not bad really.

Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but for me PB content has been slipping for the last year or so. Volume over quality, continuous fluffy/data-mining polls, standout articles becoming fewer and further between. In all honesty, the comment section has always been entertaining but has now become the single biggest reason to hit the PB link in my favourites. Becoming a pay-site, and the affiliation with Outside will probably make me un-favourite, un-click and unsubscribe.

Thanks PB for being my daily page for 20+ yrs... it's not you, it's me.

No wait. It's you.
  • 8 1
>> I firmly believe that this was the best possible way to take Pinkbike to the next level

I don't doubt this, but I think it's a valid question: Does PB needed to go to the next level? What do you want to do that you couldn't before?
  • 4 1
 @Mntneer: I love the podcast. It gets me through my runs to and from work. Maybe just don't listen?
  • 6 2
 @dualcrownscottspark: LOL!! I bet we won’t be seeing anymore of those articles anymore. How long before downvote disappears?
  • 8 35
flag twozerosix (Jul 14, 2021 at 10:58) (Below Threshold)
 @brianpark: congrats to all at PB; change can be scary and I don’t pretend to understand the media world but evolution and progress is good.
  • 2 1
 @blackthorne: hopefully never, but I give it a year.
  • 23 0
 @brianpark: Here's hoping any inevitable changes are for the better, and any added paywalls are small and allow users to cherry pick only Pinkbike content.

I clicked over to Ouside, and yep- they have moving banner ads across the bottom (and often side) of the screen. One of my favorite things about Pinkbike is the style of ad integration... they aren't jumping out at you and moving while you try to read the actual content on the site. I really hope this doesn't change- it's one of the many reasons I come here over other sites.

Also, Outside+ is $100/yr ... if they try putting the best content behind THAT wall, I think you'll see a large number of folks jump ship.
  • 22 1
 @brianpark: If you take away the PB comment section from me, I am moving to Florida, starting my own website that will have a patheticly small amount of traffic and be logo'd with a similar, but slightly different insignia to the PB logo.

You've been warned.
  • 15 0
 @brianpark: well, but what if no next level is necessary? what if the status quo is just a great balance of variety, professionalism, enthusiasm, avdertisments and product placement? What if maybe some stuff got a bit too professional and could do with a little water down back to enthusiast level or skipped at all (yeah im looking at you, academy…)
  • 35 19
 @brianpark: you corporate hack sellout
  • 22 1
 just erased everything from trailforks, ciao mofos!!
  • 28 0
 @brianpark: typical employee response...
Save the BS...
  • 5 1
 Most people won't have the patience to recover their VitalMTB accounts - their system is a looping nightmare if you have ever used the same email account there. I'm just going to read my hard copies of Litter Mag until Sean upgrades the UX and UI over there.
  • 2 0
 @ksilvey10: Trailforks saved us a ton of wasted time trying out new areas, wouldn't have even bothering with the road trips without it. You take a turn, go a bit, then wonder if it was a wrong turn. I'm probably OK going to Strava, but I came to Trailforks and paid for the MTB focus. REI has one that's fee based, but it's a mish-mash of hiking and biking and lacking maps in many areas. And I definitely don't want hiking trails tossed in the mix to begin with.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Next level=
  • 19 2
 @bananowy: Yeah, I took one of those low key subversive courses in college that pointed out that we are in a closed system and our currently most successful economic model only really rewards growth. We need to find a way to reward sustainability and no growth past a certain point. Someday we gonna run out!
  • 2 0
 @SvenPixa: that’s a good point, but I’d say that those are evolutions of their past race reporting and reviews. And mainly driven by smart hires who made those things possible in their current model. Selling the business to an entity that will try to monetize it to fund a race team is pretty far outside that. I am always optimistic though! And won’t abandon till it’s actually untenable.
  • 79 1
 It is very Squamish of them to sell out to foreign investors and price out locals
  • 21 0
 @e-tav: Yup NSMB is where I start my day. I've stopped reading all the other media channels that Outside controls due to the paywall on most articles. Adios Pink Bike. It was a good run.
  • 29 5
I agree. Everything is for sale. Your life and everything you see is for sale. Really depressing.
f*ck capitalism.
  • 42 0
 Is it just me or does it sound like Brian just went to a training seminar on corporate pr?
  • 56 0
 Man, how mad are the people at outside vc firm going to be when they realized that 90% of the traffic on pb comes from 50 guys with boring office jobs clicking refresh 800 times a day! I mean, not that I'm one of those guys or anything....
  • 14 1
 @islandforlife: Facebook… the bane of the modern human experience.
  • 2 25
flag Baller7756 (Jul 14, 2021 at 12:28) (Below Threshold)
 @plyawn: He already mentioned many things that the deeper resources will enable. The one I’m looking forward to is more in depth product (bikes, components, gear) evaluations, and comparisons.

Right now PB is at the mercy of what the manufacturers want to loan them for evaluation… now they will be able to purchase their own components and bikes. How any times have we complained that they only evaluate $8000-$10000 bikes? Now they can buy the $4000-$6000 builds and when they’re done sell them on Buy/Sell.
  • 3 0
 @Baller7756: Like Rtings.com?
That'll only happen with a subscription based model.
  • 23 0
 @kylar: Patagonia's founder agrees with you, and I think you are on to something. What's wrong with remaining as is as a company, and just being excellent?
  • 27 13
 @Noeserd: Nope, I was just taking some time away from the internet Smile
  • 16 11
 @Smokey79: Hi Smile
  • 36 1
 "Pinkbike since 1998"

not anymore...

Pinkbike 1998 - 2021

  • 4 1
 @SoPitted: So True. I tried using Surfline after that for about a week and then haven't used it since. That was a few years back.
  • 6 3
 @kylar: not to go too lefty on here, but our hyper-capitalist system doesn’t really allow for that
  • 7 0
 @jaame: the comments section will die anyway even if they aren't behind a paywall if many on here won't pay or subscribe and read the articles and comment
  • 45 27
 Looks like everyone poured out their Red Bull and drank equal parts pessimism and haterade on their way to the keyboard. Like with Facebook, "If you're not paying for it, then you're the product". I don't know about you, but I don't like being the product.

Most everyone talking about monetization is thinking that means paywall, but it doesn't necessarily. This site has been running ads and therefore "monetized" for a long while now. Paywall is just another revenue stream that may or may not make more $ for the owner and may or may not be implemented. Time will tell.

If the editorial team sticks with the same passion and mission, I'm all in. Keep the faith @brianpark @jamessmurthwaite @mikelevy @sarahmoore @mikekazimer
  • 3 1
 @robotboy: says the washed up old man...
  • 1 0
 @Adamrideshisbike: So very true.
  • 1 0
Tell that to Facebook
  • 10 0
 @Chief2slo: I was so happy to see BETA arrive, only to hit my face on the pay wall. Haven't really been there since
  • 5 0
 Nft this yesterday!
  • 14 0
 I just looked at this beta thing, Les gets WC photo recap behind a paywall. That's what you really want pinkbike?
  • 22 0
 WTF - It’s like the whole f@#king world is pressing a self-destruct button!
  • 25 0
 @danielstutt: Yep, pinkbike was great because of the comment section. Vital, nsmb, and others have just as good of content if not better. The comment section is a community. It's like having a bunch of bike nerd friends. A few years ago I moved to a small rural town that has no other bikers. It's hours away from anywhere with an mtb scene. Before that I'd read pb lots, but never commented much. Even before the move, I almost always rode alone, and sorta resented it when trails were busy. I didn't think I'd miss being around other bikers. But, I sorta do. It's nice to nerd out about bikes in the comments with others who enjoy it. I'll miss that. If any content goes behind a pay wall, pb is doomed. Paying to be part of a community is like paying people to be your friend, or paying someone to be your girlfriend: it's pathetic and defeats the purpose.
  • 4 0
 @g123: I agree, to an extent. Oh well, It's been good Pinkbike! But popular community websites around hobbies always change over time. Time to look for some others I guess.
  • 6 1
 @everythingscomingupmilhouse: Come on man, you don't really buy into that on line community crap, do you?

These people don't give a shite about you, it's all nonsense, don't fool yourself.
  • 23 51
flag mikelevy Mod (Jul 14, 2021 at 14:40) (Below Threshold)
 @garrettstories: Thanks for the kind words! We're all excited Smile
  • 8 1
 @garrettstories: I'm with you. I've had an account since June '01. While it's natural to be anxious about change, I am not going to cave to cynicism and outrage. Also,maybe the paywall will cut down on the bad spelling. (kidding/not kidding)
  • 5 0
 I would be fascinated to know the plan for monetization. Surely the Outside execs realize Pinkbike is trailforks and the comments. There are some nice articles, but at the end of the day the content is just the toast/pasta/grits/appropriate-analogy-for-your-country.
  • 23 1
 @dirtforbreakfast: Cathro content is ten times worse since aligning with Pinkbike than his old YouTube days IMO
  • 17 0
 @kcy4130: Not too sure about that. Vital is a great website, but the comment section just is not the same as PB. The PB comment section is what draws riders to PB. The wild, wild, west of talking, joking, and debating bikes among other things. Where everyone's comments are visible and dashboard notifications. Basically the online version of chopping it up with your buddies about bikes.
  • 12 0
 Remember when Dirt Magazine was bought?
  • 5 0
 @Gatoqueso1: perhaps they should curtail growth instead of sentencing PB to death...
  • 48 0
 @mikelevy: Are you actually being payed to scroll through the many hundreds of comments that express dismay with regards to this deal and respond positively to the ones who are happy about this?
  • 9 1

Welcome to Human Capital(ism) We are the most valuable asset here and we are somewhat disgruntled, apparently.
  • 6 0
 @kcy4130: The Outside corporate brass would have had a smooth and believable presentation.

Short version to Pinkbike: You'll get more pay and have more capital to expand the biz! Think of the new opportunities to review more bikes and different components, and to travel to new testing sites across the globe!

And maybe it will work out, but it's unlikely I'll pay to be part of it.
  • 5 0
 @kcy4130: Did Pinkbike recently poll user's age? That would been useful data ... there's a demographic that would be more willing to get an Outside+ subscription.
  • 2 0
 @bcamapgnolo: thats a great article....now back to work.
  • 35 1
 @njcbps: Outside is a VC funded series B holding company from the looks of it. Doubtful they're flying editors around the globe and buying up stuff to test and review, but that was probably part of the pitch.
My experience with tech acquisitions, which this feels very much like, is that the new investors/owners are likely going to roll PB and Beta into one, and then GAIA and TF into one, after some time. Wouldn't surprise me if Beta just gets rolled into the PB brand, since it's stronger with the "core" demographic, I'm not too familiar with GAIA, but I'd suspect that Outside is looking at this like "we don't need two mapping applications". Unless Outside is hoping to IPO one day, which I doubt, they're probably hoping to package and sell their portfolio to a bigger player like Conde Nast, Rodale, Bonnier, Time Inc., etc.
  • 7 0
  • 14 0
 @Zach22: Nailed it - used to read a number of sites that have been acquired by Outside/PocketMedia and sadly they're all just a beige serving of the same thing. Climbing/Rock&Ice used to be quality media providers with diversity of content on the same subject but now you can't even tell the difference when you go to the sites. Look up any of their content names and it's the same ugly WordPress site - it's just a VC looking to buy up media sources and monetize them. I'd really be curious how many people would sell to Outside now after seeing what's become of brands/companies they'd spent years establishing.
  • 18 0
 Can’t blame u for selling out. I hope the employees were taken care of with some kind of kicker if they weren’t owners. Sucks that it is private equity since they will no doubt sell PB’s soul. That is an absolute given.

Anyone know why they grouped PB and TF under “endurance” on the Outside trophy wall? Seems odd to group along with Running, Cycling, et al. Is this a harbinger for future missteps?
  • 10 0
 This is gonna hurt... Once you get past the paywall, January 2022, they are going to have this comment as the the most upvoted comment... and its absolutely dawggggin them lol
  • 11 2
 @mikelevy: when you say "we" do you mean those of you who have shares in the company ? or everyone who works for PB ? I have a really hard time believing that you folks really feel so positively about this.
  • 14 8
 @adrennan: Like what has happened to Bike Mag - is it better now that's it's Beta? Will Pinkbike become Lgbtq+bike?
  • 27 0
 @krka73: The next level is corporate speak for more revenue aka “pay wall”
  • 38 0
 @DGWW: as someone who's been working for fortune low number companies and having been involved in both the giving and receiving end of the long shaft of acquisition, the only positive people are those who don't know any better and leaders who are saying it for morale. Shit rolls only one way.

Hoping for the best, for the staff, and especially for the community that's the backbone of what we all hope doesn't get paywalled into oblivion. The comments rolling in today say it all - rest assured VC isn't looking. Oh yea, f*ck Outside.
  • 28 0
 Welcome to the "Wholefoods" of the outdoor world. PB has been my go to fro nearly 20 years. Like VeloNews, Pelton, Rock and Ice, and Climbing, I'll get on with out it...
  • 24 0
 @brianpark: nervous? Hesitant? Worried?

You should be!

And I'm not at all 100% against subscription services, as I'm actually a BetaMTB subscriber, but mocfrom a free platform to a paid one will always be wrong. It will always alienate your users, it will always feel like your users got cheated.

It's a sad day, and while I get that we all have to eat, this was a bad decision and I'm pretty disappointed.
  • 7 0
 @chacou: you are correct. It is definitely a VC backed company right now. For the short term that’s probably a good thing. The current VC model generally concerns itself more with growth than profits. They likely will invest here in order to grow the user base. And they with use that growth in clicks and subscribers to pump up the valuation of the company.

But ultimately VC funds are not indefinite. The goal is to invest, build a company, and cash in. So the people owning the company just by nature of the business have no interest in holding it long term. The entire goal will be to either sell the company to another larger media company or take it public.
  • 7 0
 @brianpark: it is if the articles are pay-walled and no one reads them!
  • 6 3
 @ccrida-pnw: Does anyone read them now?...............most people go straight to the comments to be first to say "looks like a..........." I pay for the plus to have enhanced classified ads.
  • 18 1
 @mikelevy: Odd thing to say…since your job is literally to produce content for said internet. The Evil Overlords beamed you up and forced their blue milk down your throat…

(You drank the Kool-Aid. Though not to the level of Brian)
  • 6 0
 @mikelevy: yay, Levy has not left the building! We missed you man!
  • 3 37
flag adamdigby (Jul 14, 2021 at 17:59) (Below Threshold)
 @CircusMaximus: You clearly don't understand how business works, don't come one here and complain that Pinkbike is seeking to make more money if you don't understand the basic premise of profit incentive. STAY IN YOUR LANE where the rest of the slow riders drive.
  • 7 0
 I called this a couple.weeks ago pahahah what do I win? I said they'll start charging for content like they did with trail forks. f*cking sellouts
  • 9 1
 @DGWW: it was sold out for money so another company could make more money. Business 101.
  • 16 0
 @Chief2slo: I totally agree paywalls are BS and I won't be shelling out every month for a subscription to see your content. I pay for trail forks but if you try to bundle that with some +Outside nonsense, see you later. This reminds me of the "next level" that MEC in Canada tried to attain. Guess what happened a couple years after their restructuring and hiring their overpriced CEO, bankruptcy! I'd be glad to be proven wrong, but this is a well worn path you're on.
  • 2 0
 @eblackwell: it will mean much much less. Except high turnover
  • 4 0
 Also end of Trailforks… big $ has to get their fingers in everything.
  • 4 0
 Time for BUSTED SPOKE to be resurrected!!!!
  • 1 0
 @ReformedRoadie: So long as some of the content is MTB-related, I will be there all the way, Mate!
  • 6 3
 @garrettstories: how dare they utilize our data to sell to the companies that cater to our very niche industry to allow them to create products that meet our wants and needs while also providing the worldwide mountain bike community with a place to congregate off the trails all at a cost of nothing to us. I believe @brianpark mentioned MySpace…. After Mark decided to cash out and the VC’s started asking for money from “premium users” at the same time Facebook(Vital/NSMB) are picking up steam the OG of social media has been relegated to a waste of a web address. I see the same happening here. It’ll be quick and relatively painless and the PB execs can get their retirement and children’s trust’s funded and we will just have a new favorite site in a few months. Time to Vital to upgrade its servers and get ready for some new traffic. They’ve been posting the same articles onus some for a while anyway.
  • 5 5
 @brianpark: I always try to embrace change and wait for the results to speak for themselves instead of judging before anything has actually changed. I’ll keep an open mind and only shun you if things go south. Smile
  • 9 32
flag gnarlysipes (Jul 14, 2021 at 18:58) (Below Threshold)
 @thedirtyburritto: You wouldn’t have the joy of riding your sweet bike or commenting on these forums without a free market economy. Why don’t you read something other than Vox and CNN? Not all companies are crony capitalists.
  • 8 42
flag gnarlysipes (Jul 14, 2021 at 19:00) (Below Threshold)
 @jimmythehat: I say good riddance to all the freeloading losers on Pinkbike. I stopped coming here daily because I got so sick of the vibe from the user base. They’re bipolar.
  • 14 0
 *me in computer class trying to talk to other people about bikes after all pinkbike commenters boycott*

Me: Dang, XT wireless finally released!
Anyone: What’s that?
Me: Opens mouth to talk, then sighs at the massive amount of explaining needed, just for the person to stop caring half way through it.

You guys can’t all leave or I’ll never be able to talk to someone who doesn’t say dirt ramp or daredevil stunt master without years of explanation.
  • 11 0
 It’s quite ironic how much people spend on bikes but they won’t pay a small fee for online content… I fall into that category.

It’s all about the value proposition and paying for online content is a low value in most people’s minds, that’s why most will use you tube and be quite happy to stomach their ads
  • 4 0
 @wilsonians: but nobody will hear you (or anybody else) bitch if the comments are locked behind a paywall. If a tree falls in the forest...

But seriously, this could backfire if the core audience is alienated and jumps ship. I think hardcore MTB fans are like American NHL hockey fans - the ones who love it really LOVE it, but for the rest of the punters it's a passing fancy. Not the type to wake and fire up the interweb for bike-related content.
  • 6 2
 I just checked, and the E-bike content on BETA looks to be free.

So I'd guess we can expect the same here in the future. So as long as they comments section remains free we'll STILL get to waste hours every day bitching about ebikes!

Actually, even the paywall articles on BETA leave the first paragraph free. So really most PB commenters will still have all the information they need to continue to make the high quality "informed" comments that we are known for!
  • 17 0
 My Pinkbike hat is less cool now...
  • 5 1
 While I agree 100% I think the next steps are to…

To read the remainder of this comment, join Outside+!
  • 1 0
 @kylar: “A whole nother level”
  • 5 1
 Is it April 1 already, global warming has got way out of control like there was no winter but I'm pretty frosty on this
  • 6 0
 Im burning my camo pinkbike hoody
  • 1 0
 @ecbp: Pinkbike has been VC owned for some time now.
  • 2 0
 @matadorCE: exactly . . . That's where everything is headed these days $$$$$ we're all just cash cows now
  • 1 0
 @JWadd: I second this!
  • 16 0
 The suits at Outside right now; “Well that didn’t go as planned.”

Serious trust issue right now between this community and that brand.
  • 1 0
 @Rigidjunkie: we probably won't see MES race coverage eny more.
  • 13 0
 Well, yup been here almost 20 years, been real good times. These things never last, and frankly they shouldn’t or we could never truly appreciate what we had. The fun thing about PB is that it’s always felt really genuine, opinionated, loose and raw. That we know is going to be polished out. Oh well, there are a dozen other sites review the same shit, and there are other social media outlets. Cheers to becoming actual corporate sell outs, I really hope it lines your pockets well.
  • 12 0
 While I’d like to be hopeful, this purchase somehow reads to me: we couldn’t figure out how to get people to subscribe to Beta when people get Pinkbike for free, so we bought Pinkbike.
  • 3 0
 @ybsurf: It's all downhill from here.
  • 9 2
 @mammal: Last 3 articles I saw on NSMB were about e-bikes so I wouldn't exactly hold them out as a paragon of virtue.
  • 10 0
 @brianpark: I guess it is a case of "so long, and thanks for all the fish". I can't recall a bike media buyout that didn't result in the brand basically dying, because the new owners were seeking to press that juicy profit out of their acquisition...
  • 5 1
 @MOBrules: you mean its all cross country and e-bike from here
  • 6 0

Absolutely the same for me. This just puts PB to bed for me. Good bye and thanks for all the fish!
  • 1 0
 @chacou: I've used free version of GAIA for 4X4 trail mapping...it's OK.
  • 4 0

Me: Who remembers MUDSLUTS (which predated MTBR.com)?

Y'all: "No one, ya old git!"
  • 6 0
 Exactly what i was thinking when i read that ... hope they don't break something good. They bought Pinkbike for the community ... there is a community for a good reason ... changing the buisiness model will be very tricky if they don't want to lose a big part of what made PinkBike today ...
  • 1 0
 @mammal: welcome back home
  • 5 0
 @DrTibo: they don't care, they just want money. Outside knows the amount of traffic and the position of pinkbike and they just want to capitalise it, no matter what.
  • 6 0
 "This is the first photo ever uploaded to Pinkbike. The image of Rob Stevens dropping off a bank in Calgary, Alberta is the perfect representation of what this site has always stood for:"

going downhill without control, either you win or you crash painfully which is way more likely.
  • 17 0
 Did you, pb team, thought "what if we just asked if people would help us achieve all our glorious project by giving us money, money we could ask for." In France Vilbrequin (youtube car channel) raised tonnes (more than a million) of money to build a 1000hp fiat multipla. Just think a sec what could have been done with pb community. Sad it won't happen
  • 9 1
Pinkbike was developed in a great direction during the last years. It has become the number one media for mountainbikers in the whole world. So I am very confident in your decisions as they have proven to be good ones in the past.
However I do have the feeling that going down the paywall rout just because everybody is doing it and PB is now part of everybody is a huge risk and has the potential to ruin the whole thing.
The greater the opportunity the greater the risk.
  • 4 0
 Sorry Pinkbike, I am not going to pay!
  • 15 0
 And to think, RC was talking about pinkbike being a pirate ship firing cannons at bike manufacturers who don't do stuff like putting water bottles in frames.

I guess the pirate days are gone.

I'm gonna go ride my 26" hardcore hardtail now while I mourn for the future
  • 3 0
 @Toddaking: noticed the grouping as well. Not a good omen.
  • 11 0
 I honestly think if Pinkbike becomes Beta (or any other paywall site with no comments, no community and no Buy/Sell), it could have a significant impact on high end bike sales around the world.

I mean, PB gets me excited to buy new gear. The comments section helps inform me, and the Buy/Sell is usually how it happens. No other media outlet really fires that stoke.
  • 3 0
 @tacklingdummy: Yeah, vital interface certainly could be better. But we'll figure it out.
  • 3 0
 @Zach22: pinkbike already has so many branded posts
  • 25 0
 @njcbps: Even in the (very unlikely) scenario that nothing goes behind a paywall, it's still not the same. Prior, our clicks and comments contributed to pinkbike making ad revenue and ultimately made money for Radek, an old free rider who actually cared about mountain biking and bikers. Now our clicks and comments just enrich some douche bag venture capitalist whose only interest in mtb is making money.
  • 6 0
 I just really hope that pb didn't force non compete clauses on everyone. So cathro, for example would be able go back to doing his own youtube stuff without having outside's lawyers sue him for all he's worth.
  • 15 0
 @brianpark: As cool as it would be to see deserving privateers get support, pinkbike starting a race team would be a conflict of interest. As a media company your job is to provide the best possible race coverage, not get in the mix. If you want to do more for racing, why don't you look at purchasing rights to stream WC DH coverage on the site, or at least post some more comprehensive highlights? How about taking a run at the video coverage for ews to actually capture a good representation of each stage? Spectators bring money, and growing spectators has a lot more in common with your core business than starting a race team.
  • 7 5
 @pistol2ne: haha I agree dude, I don’t get why people have to be SJW especially on a mountain bike website
  • 3 1
 RC leaving was the real beginning of the end. This is just picking up speed down the slide.
  • 1 0
 @kookseverywhere: hahaha yes!
  • 2 2
 @dwbaillar: this is a very good point, I would not be against paying to watch races through pinkbike if PB purchased the rights to stream events.
  • 12 0
 I remember speaking with an employee of the initial company who first bought Pinkbike a couple years ago, and shortly afterwards they monetized Trailforks. I still bought it, it's good value for me.
But THEN he mentioned the volume of sales that goes through the Buy & Sell each day "and it's not even monetized yet!". So get ready for that too. He seemed like the scum of the earth type of human who ruins all good things in the name of profit. And not for the hardworking employees who make the actual product great. Was sad to hear and to listen to. To all the staff of PB, I hope you guys are treated well during this.
  • 12 15
 @Smokey79: Hi Smile
  • 6 1
 @kcy4130: that comment about office guys clicking refresh felt like a personal attack.
  • 1 0
 @manitunc: Very true, however, FB's appeal is so much more broad than any niche website like PB. FB also, as far as I know, doesn't really produce content? I'm sure FB cost of doing business is astronomical, but they are also one of the few places on the net that reaches almost anyone in the world, meaning they can charge top dollar for ad space, and other multi-billion dollar companies are willing to pay that. FB basically breaks down to be a data farming company who's soul purpose is to spy on as many people as possible so they can sell your soul to advertisers every time you log in.

Now, if you will allow me to set off my soap box.... haha
  • 3 0
 @fracasnoxteam: totally agree. There are multiple examples where the users are asked for contributions, and it seems to work quite well in most cases. I am sure the more affluent readers would have chipped in.
  • 4 0
 @fabwizard: I am sure they'll try. But ultimately 99% of what people come to PB for is user generated content, event press releases/results and industry puff pieces
None of which should be paid for. Riders only provide content because they site does not have a pay wall, we pay by answering surveys and tolerating bike company articles and adverts. It worked well. I can't see anybody paying for PB content, it just isn't at the level of Vital or Enduro-mtb not even close.
  • 5 0
 @mccarthyp: I somehow agree. I am riding since the early 90s and after a hiatus due to children and work, I started riding more again some 10 years ago and the community at PB was a great motivator. It made me buy new bikes, numerous upgrades and improve my riding, mainly due to the user generated content. If this would be behind a paywall, I would not have joined and maybe even stopped riding. Access to PB and Trailforks made me donate to my local trail society. If inclusion and attracting more riders to the sport, was the goal, this seems like a dangerous move. I sincerely hope that the comments here are not going to be dismissed lightly and the impact of PB on the sport appreciated and considered in their decisions.
  • 6 0
 @mccarthyp: 100%. Its easy to forget that PB originated entirely on user content way back when -- I had an account but mostly was on BustedSpoke as a teenager being on a different coast. Now living across the Trump belt, PB has been awesome to have, but even as its grown I'm still not here for the media stuff as many others aren't either.

There are three core audiences with a lot of overlap: articles, forums, and buysell. I can live without articles but if either of the latter two go, I go with them. Monetizing forums and classifieds does not work, its a well worn path that ends up nowhere, but I wouldn't put it past some MBA to try to squeeze blood from a stone at the expense of an established community that's already generating ad revenue.
  • 3 1
 @VtVolk how’s it feel having the most upvoted comment of all time on pinkbike?
  • 4 0
 @kylar: Amen to that, sometimes evolution leads to extinction, or worse lol. Unfortunately when us humans start building stuff, we rarely know when to stop. Big, bigger, more more more.
  • 1 1
 Perfectly said. @pistol2ne:
  • 11 0
 @scotttherider: Right now we're trying to just focus on the things that matter most, like how we're going to waste so much time at work once PB is gone/dead/worthless spam. It's a team effort, and we couldn't have done it with out all of you. We're taking comments one at a time, and hope to keep this train rolling for as long as we can
  • 5 0
 @brianpark: kudos for engaging in the comments on this, but I think we’re all rightly very worried that Banshee to Specialized will turn out to be a very apt metaphor for the change in culture and content that results from this acquisition.
  • 3 0
 @ecbp: this. VC money doesn't care about the MTB community and stoking us out nearly as much as they care about their pockets
  • 6 0
 @brianpark: wow that got more flak than a lancaster bomber over berlin
  • 1 0
 @scotttherider: @scotttherider: VtVolk is now part of the Outside family! New bigger projects ahead! THE BEST IS YET TO COME!
  • 1 1
 @JDFF: cuz “America”
  • 1 0

Not so bad since they’ve been providing the whole bike for free for years.
  • 27 2
 YOU GET A SUBSCRIPTION! AND YOU GET A SUBSCRIPTION! AND YOU GET A SUBSCRIPTION! Let us count the ways... Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, TLC, AMC, HBO, MotoGP, PlayStation, Apple TV, Disney, Pandora, Soundcloud, XM Radio, Podcasts, Patreons, Peleton, Trailforks, Strava, Carfax, shaving, tea, clothes, man goods, candy, meat, wine, dog toys and treats, groceries, make-up, every software known to man or anything worth a damn. Coming soon, features on the car you bought for tens of thousands of dollars. Fuck every last one of these companies.
  • 6 0
 @Sweatypants: Haha you used to pay $90/mo for cable - now you pay $10x8/mo for all the steaming services you want. All these companies are really "revolutionary".
  • 5 0
 @z5Levi: 133% the enjoyment, 400% the annoyance!
  • 4 0
 @Sweatypants: death by 1000 cuts
  • 13 0
 @Dogl0rd: Amen. I'm gonna end up in a cabin in the woods reading books and admiring pine cones on hikes the way this is going.
  • 8 0
 Just joined vitalmtb. See you there!
Is there a way I can delete my Pinkbike-account?
  • 1 0
 @schlockinz: What kind of hardtail? spill?
  • 1 0
 @chacou: pretty accurate
  • 2 0
 @Sweatypants: Sounds like maybe you should start with Walden
  • 11 0
 @chacou: Nailed it. The presentation to PB staff likely went something along the lines of "We're really excited to bring your expertise aboard and with our resources, you'll be able to work on all of the things you haven't had the money to. You'll stay 100% autonomous and make your own business decisions". Then after laying off redundant staff (anyone in administration)... six months later they'll start dictating what the content should be. one year later, rebrand/roll into another brand.
  • 37 0
 Other have posted this but it should probably also be up here in the top comment. . .


"The Pinkbike acquisition adds considerable readership and revenue in the cycling space, and thus adds momentum to the company’s Outside+ membership program. Outside+, introduced this year, offers enthusiasts various bundles of content, services, discounts, and other offerings for a $99 annual fee. The membership revenues complement Outside’s revenues from advertising, creating a business model for publishing that CEO Robin Thurston said is more sustainable than traditional media models in the long term. Adding Pinkbike, CyclingTips, and Trailforks gives Outside+ more critical mass, making membership purchases more desirable for enthusiasts and providing more readership for advertisers inside and outside the industry, Thurston said.
“This acquisition is a key moment in fulfilling our mission to build a vibrant home where active lifestyle participants will discover a wide range of content and tools to fuel their adventures. We’re very excited and honored to welcome the Burkats and their team to our family,” said Thurston. “As a lifelong cyclist, I’m a huge fan of these brands, which are perfect complements to our own cycling titles—VeloNews, Peloton, Beta, and Bicycle Retailer—and to our recent acquisition of Gaia GPS, the dominant mobile mapping app for hikers, backpackers, and overlanders. The marriage of these businesses creates a truly comprehensive resource for all types of cyclists and outdoor adventurers.”

The ironic truth is I (and I imagine others,) might have actually considered paying an annual subscription fee for Pinkbike and Trailforks AS IS, owned and run by the people that currently run it, rather than some other parent company that will likely alter it in ways I simply won’t like, and definitely won’t pay for. (Look no further than the current, apparently permanent ad on Outside that takes up the bottom section of the page that you can’t even click to go away, for example.)

Pinkbike and Trailforks, (again, as is), are worth at least a few bucks a month to me but it won’t be if it diminishes or morphs into anything like Outside. It’s hard to believe that won’t happen.
  • 18 0
 @jeremiahwas: I'd say majority of the people in the comments are with ya - had they put $5-10/mo fee between PB/TrailForks we would have been happy to pay to continue this quality content. But to give that money to Outdoor feels about as good as pissing into the wind. I think I'll save my $99/yr and spend that buying some beers/coffee during a ride and support some other non-corporate efforts.

The sentence "As a lifelong cyclist, I’m a huge fan of these brands..." just makes me gag. It's just a token gesture to try and say "hey people, us vulture capitalists totally have the same interests as you".
  • 4 0
 @z5Levi: totally, that was my point a few comments sooner and I read that more and more people think this way
  • 12 1
 @brianpark: you f*cked it. this so could be avoided by reading one book, Small Giants by Bo Burlingham - Companies That Choose To Be Great Instead Of Big.
Cheerio PB it’s been a blast and hello Vital.
  • 6 1
 @brianpark: how much did you sell out for? serious question.
  • 7 1
 @brianpark: What was your price for ‘next level’?
  • 6 1
 @brianpark: it’s going to Vital sweet cheeks
  • 1 1
 @mensch-mueller: probably not but you should maybe see a doctor to get the knee jerk reaction thing fixed
  • 14 1
 As a Trailforks admin/ambassador i'm always happy to see more cash pouring in. The dev team really need more resources and the pro version was a step in the right way.

Now, as a Pinkbike reader and TF contributor, i'm very worried about the future and i'm in the wait & see category.

What will happen with the existing user content (photos, videos, etc..)? Will it be also available for all the other Outside publications? Same with all the future content (TF included). To be honest i'm not sure i would post/share any media on Pinkbike until this question is answered.

The other elephant in the room is how independent Pinkbike will remain. I still remember when Outside Mag declared that snowboarding was dead (with the drama that ensued) and i'm really not looking forward to that kind of editorials.
  • 12 0
 @Sweatypants: seriously, I get an e-stack of bills every month for shit that did not even exist 20 years ago, and it isn't chump change.

And I want someone to name a single publication that improved after Outside took over... I'll wait.

It will be a slow death for PB at first. But dead it will be, at least to me when it goes the way of all the others.
  • 5 1
 @inversedotch: I'll probably keep TF, as long as they stick to that promise of fixed cost for life when I signed up during the promotional period. I really don't have a better/easier way to plan rides at new trails, new locations.
  • 3 0
 @krka73: I've been seriously avoiding it. BeIn used to have amazing motorbike coverage and I have it on my cable package. Then MotoAmerica went to FS2, I'll catch it sometimes if I catch it, and MotoGP went to NBCSN and now only replays the main race like 10 hours later... I'll watch it if I'm up and I remember even though I already checked the standings. I'll continue to keep the pirating spirit alive. Its not even the money at this point in my life, its the principle. We "borrow" Netflix and Hulu and rarely ever use them. All these subscriptions do is make me realize how much I CAN live without something, and I realize my tv being on is mostly just background noise. I think its the opposite effect that all these companies think it'll have. At least for me. Most of its crap, and I'd be happier with a milkshake than another subscription to something trying to fill the void. Or I'd be happier giving money directly to the person making something worthwhile than paying overhead and admin costs to see it just the same. I like reading Pinkbike daily for sure and the comments are funny, but I'll just go look at everyone's instagrams or another forum just the same to keep up with what's going on. Its a take it or leave it thing because of convenience, its not dire nor necessary. The interaction is what's meaningful, the content while enjoyable is not that unique, cept for a few. Edits and shorts will reach people somehow, new bike news will reach people somehow, bloggers will blog, reviews while informative, also happen a dozen other places. If they stifle the interaction, well then...
  • 6 0
 @brianpark: Yes. The comments section of PB IS a huge part of PB. And while it may not be going anywhere as you say, I would suggest that what WILL be going elsewhere is the mass majority of comment contributors and PB faithful.
  • 7 0
"The ironic truth is I (and I imagine others,) might have actually considered paying an annual subscription fee for Pinkbike and Trailforks AS IS, owned and run by the people that currently run it, rather than some other parent company that will likely alter it in ways I simply won’t like, and definitely won’t pay for. (Look no further than the current, apparently permanent ad on Outside that takes up the bottom section of the page that you can’t even click to go away, for example.)"

  • 1 0
 @Sweatypants: with a VR headset?
  • 1 1
 @gnarlysipes: yup, stopped being fun years ago, I’m not gonna pay for a bunch of negs.
  • 4 0
 @skierdud89: it was fine when it was $20 to get Plus perks. Now @ $50, not worth it. But this is still off-topic - Pinkbike only works because it is full content for free.
  • 5 0
 @mikelevy: Is that your most heavily downvoted comment? -42 so far. That's up there with some of mine. HA!
  • 2 0
 Just a thought, why didn't pinkbike offer the business to us pinkers?

We could have raised at least $10.00 Canadian.

just kidding but part serious.

  • 1 0
 @fabwizard: you mean go the patreon route like all podcast nowadays? Perhaps but we don't know why they really sold. If it was all about the money, or about something else.
  • 1 0
 @scary1: never ever... until they force me to have sex like Demolition Man.
  • 1 0
 @adrennan: spot on
  • 2 0
 @MikeyMT: agree, people seem to not be realizing the payout that’s likely involved here. Basic human nature/needs probably all this is, not some lofty goal of “the next level”
  • 1 0
 @scottshowen: lmao. “Next level”
  • 2 0
 @VtVolk: so much modesty in this comment. I’m just wondering when outside is going to step in and derail this comment train.
  • 5 1
 @jeremiahwas: @mikelevy: why not post a survey asking before simply selling out?
  • 1 0
 @rosemarywheel: NS surge circa 2008
  • 1 0
 @schlockinz: tup Do you have pictures? and the word 'spill' above was intended to have an exclamation, not a question mark.
  • 3 0
 If Outside/PB introduces a paywall, no matter how small...hello Vital, MBR, Enduro, Singletracks. Plenty of options.
  • 8 0
 @Cmcrow76: If I were Vital I would have an article welcoming Pinkers.
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: I see what you are saying mate, however I’m sure a similar thing was said when Dirt mag was ceasing print production…the alternative was to receive a shitty digital copy, granted this isn’t the same situation but what I’m trying to say is that not all change is for the better, especially money is involved.
  • 3 0
 @scotttherider: Because commenters don't make business decisions for a site that provides freely distributed/ad-driven content. I'm sure only a fraction of people saying they'd pay a sub for content would actually pay for content that has been relatively free for so many years. Any purchasing company (Outside) has the benefit of guaranteed money to shell out, plus the normal acquisition lies of increased budget, autonomy, dream projects, additional staff, etc.
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: rough when the algorithm os censoring you from your own article.

I hope this story goes the direction of the, infamous Summit Sport of Whistler - Coastal Culture Sports, tale.
  • 5 0
 @chorpie: "Because commenters don't make business decisions for a site that provides freely distributed/ad-driven content."

See, but they actually kind of do. Because without the traffic and comments and people, those ads are worth dick. They GET ad revenue BECAUSE the commenters and people are here and because what they're putting out is stuff people want to see. Soooo... you can freely push them away, but then ad revenue will drop when they can't justify the cost to reach ratio any more. If the content sucked, well then same difference. Better hope those subs make up the difference in income.
  • 7 0
 @Sweatypants: Yeah but at some point in the past PB made the decision to grow as much as possible and sell to someone for gobs of money. That means all of their choices up to this point (content, hiring, etc) have been a means to that end. To make them look as good as possible to any interested purchasers so they can get the most money for an acquisition.

I've been through enough company acquisitions to know the standard spiel that comes across, it sounds like sunshine and roses until the deal is done. The owners get rich, the workers get laid off or beat into submission, and everything goes downhill from there.

But what would posting a survey bring about, aside from hurt feelings?
  • 1 0
 @chorpie: Pretty standard move so not completely out of the question by any means.
  • 1 0
 @kinematix: The answer to your question is yes.
  • 2 7
flag PartridgeSkillz (Jul 19, 2021 at 18:12) (Below Threshold)
 @brianpark: Brian, some of us trust your vision. I originally bought a subscription to Beta last year because I have always supported what those folks did for the entire MTB community; much as I support what Pinkbike and Trailforks does for the global MTB community. I even appreciated when my Beta subscription became an Outside one, since they still have a lot of value to bring to the outdoor community as well. I also think it’s pretty badass that my Trailforks subscription also helps out riders and trail groups in places like Eastern Europe or Turkey, not just NA or BC. So, looking at this beyond my home trails, I hope people realize that this is a great opportunity to strengthen a platform that is reaches the community in a way that benefits everyone. Here’s hoping it turns out beyond your wildest hopeful expectations, and looking forward to seeing what this unleashes. But out of curiousity, since I’m already an Outside + member, am I automatically a Pinkbike subscriber too?
  • 1 2
 @Chief2slo: Do you work for free?
  • 5 0
 @Super7: I certainly don't give an F about ebike content, but NSMB is at least 90% conventional mtb content, local to my area, and they keep themselves accountable in their opinions and what they publish. Also, not owned by a large corporate entity or headed toward paywall business model.
  • 13 1
 @brianpark: Honestly Brian, either you are entirely able to deceive yourself or you are already in full corporate b.s. speak!
Just for kicks, look at Outside magazine: take one from the 90‘s and one of today. The old editions were about the outdoors with lots of awesome writers and stories.
Today it is first and foremost about expensive, snobby style crap for rich people that are never outdoors but play pretend.
Outside is, for me, the prime example for a complete and utter sell-out of values and vision for lots of greenbacks. That is the road PB is going down now and your team-sponsoring blahblah for me is nothing but a pipe dream.
Let’s see who of your crew will be employed by Outside three years from now…
Why am I writing this? Experience of several buyouts as an employee - it was never pretty and in the end I was holding the bag. And yes, I have heard your future dreams frim several middle-management types, deluding themselves.
  • 5 0
 @brianpark: what “level” are you trying to get to exactly? Pinkbike, by far, is the monopolizing content platform for cycling. Pinkbike literally is to the mountain bike world, worldwide, as Google is to search engines. How can you actually get any bigger or visible?? You’re at the top. Stop being ridiculous
  • 1 0
 @Ryanrobinson1984: quality comment
  • 1 5
flag NorthCoastZack (Jul 26, 2021 at 19:00) (Below Threshold)
I’m wary of all of this too, but let’s be real.
Every one of us would not think twice about having to pay $5/month for the ability to use our suspension or droppers if it really came to it. I do enjoy ridged bikes, but not enough to render my squishy bikes useless. I’d happily have 1 less beer a month haha.
  • 3 0
 @NorthCoastZack: don't joke man that shit is coming
  • 1 0
 @sngltrkmnd: Exact fact
  • 1 0
 @kcy4130: the form
  • 2 1
 @kcy4130: the vitalmtb forum format is horrible! Maybe if they improve it, I might consider it. There is no way they could compete with Pinkbike unless the editors leave Pinkbike and join them to help improve their site. There are so many mergers and companies being bought out these days and we never even know it, e.g., Google has bought out many companies and these companies continue to thrive and oftentimes improve and grow. Since Pinkbike is ran so well and there is nothing on the web that compare other than MTBR I can't imagine that Outside would disrupt Pinkbike, but if they did then those behind the creation of the site can also start another website similar or even better.
  • 3 1
 @kmsafety: Pinkbike editors do not design websites and develop user interface. Any skilled web developer could improve vital. Hiring Pinkbike editors would prob fill the site with endless dumb shit
  • 459 17
 Outside is dogshit and I'm looking forward to finding a new favorite site as large oversight and monetization decisions ruin the site over the next 5-10 years.
  • 206 3
 vital and nsmb for the content. pinkbike for the comments. it has always been the way.
  • 84 3
 Outside isn't bad, but man, it's like super high end outdoor stuff. Directed toward people who make/willing to spend ALOT of money on outdoor equipement. I realize this is a weird comment coming from a mountain biker where the monetary barriers to entry are very high, but Outside is rich for even my blood.
  • 57 1
 @adrennan: I bet vital and nsmb’s comments section blow up as the mass exodus from pinkbike takes place!
  • 181 0
 I for one welcome our new corporate overlords. Nothing like a faceless mega-conglomeration to really make you feel like you're part of something big.
  • 177 2
 Outside is insufferable. I gave up on their podcast after getting tired of having political opinions shoved down my throat. And no, I'm not a troglodyte, I agree with the 98% of the opinions, I just don't think EVERYTHING has to be political and I enjoy a little separation in my personal life.
  • 11 0
 @FMHUM: I'm sure we can drag them down to our level!
  • 28 0
 Now to remember my nsmb password....
  • 11 0
 @Adamrideshisbike: Amen. You are on point for sure.
  • 46 1
 outside will invariably get sold to whatever conglomerate owns tupperware, then hollowed out and sold to the private equity firm that desecrated Deadspin. It's a fitting end really.
  • 5 0
 @adrennan: This is the way
  • 44 0
 @FMHUM: I cannot wait to read and hear more hard hitting reviews that Beta has become very good at. Things like how that $200 shirt is their favorite jersey. Or, how their favorite shorts are $150. Or how the $6500 version of that bike is the one to get. They used to be solid reviews. I bought my current bike straight off of their review. Now, I do not care anymore.
  • 25 1
 @shredddr: you forgot the part where the PE firm then breaks it all up again (so the parts can focus on their "Core Mission") after they have sucked every dollar of profit out
  • 162 1
 @Adamrideshisbike: I am starting two countdowns today:

1. how many days until the first paywall?
2. how many days until the first 'ten best MTB mountain towns to retire in that you have never heard of' article.
  • 21 5
 Enduro MTB are probably the best alternative for reviews
  • 43 0
 @thedirtyburritto: Uh #2 is scary accurate. Outside thrives on click bait articles.
  • 21 0
 I was an avid follower of cyclingnews.com until they were bought out years ago. Their site went from a grass roots, no fluff, info source to the homogenized, corporate thing it is now. I am fully expecting this to happen here with Outside lording over things.
  • 18 0
 @thedirtyburritto: the apocalypse will come in a listicle
  • 3 0
 @Afterschoolsports: I know right? Ha ha. Same with Vital for me... probably just going to try and start fresh.
  • 5 4
 @jmhills: I think for as long as I have been following PB, they have always reviewed expensive stuff. Heck, 95% of mountain biking products are above what most people deem affordable.
  • 8 0
 @thedirtyburritto: Willing to take bets? I say six months to the first paywall.
  • 8 0
 @BenTheSwabian: Anyone able to set up a pool when it will start? 5 bucks an entry?
  • 9 1
 @Goocha05: Some of their content over the last two years has been great and I like their variety, but I kinda dislike their decidedly "enduro bro" hipster attitude. Not my cup of tea at all.
  • 7 0
 Need to check and see if they purchased each of us as well. Expect a "You now belong to Outside Corporation" letter in the mail...
  • 3 0
 @Goocha05: does Enduro even have a comments section? I totes haven’t noticed one. I don’t even have an account. It would be easy for them to pick up a few thousand members about now.
  • 8 2
 @Adamrideshisbike: Like the political agenda bullsh*t hasn't already made it's way to Pinkbike? Makes perfect sense now though - it was to ease the transition and make the change of direction less obvious.
  • 6 0
 @Adamrideshisbike: this is exactly why I stopped visiting Outside
  • 3 0
 @fabwizard: Im in! put me down for a 5er at 2 months. Price is Right rules???
  • 16 0
 @Adamrideshisbike: x2 - Politicization leads to further polarization, bikes need to bring people together
  • 12 1
 @jmhills: so many reviews are just crap now. One recent release had two reviewers saying a bike was playful with two more saying the bike was point and shoot - gee, I wonder if setup and riding style matters. Anyway, I'm dying to see how the new Outside will balance Pinkbike's hatred of Evil with Beta/Bikemag's insatiable lust for Evil.
  • 6 35
flag jclnv (Jul 14, 2021 at 14:05) (Below Threshold)
 @Adamrideshisbike: That’s what a transphobic racist member of the patriarchy would say.
  • 2 0
 the irony...
  • 4 5
 @FMHUM: Barriers to entry? What are you talking about? Like anything… there is a range of products at all price points. Anyone can get into MTB for a few hundred bucks. Maybe make a hard choice on the latest iPhone vs a bike? Check Craigslist, PB Buy/Sell. Like anything… have a goal, make a plan… and go after what you want.
  • 6 0
 @adrennan: I just came out of my commenting retirement just to say I will now start commenting on Vital just to piss all over outside. Now where dafuk is Waki?
  • 12 1
 @jclnv: sarcasm doesn't go over well with this crowd
  • 4 1
 @hamncheez: Tell me about it! Bloody normies.
  • 4 0
 @jclnv: y’all it’s just a joke not a dick don’t take it so hard.....
  • 3 0
 @Bikedude666: sounds like mountain bike action lmao
  • 2 1
 @jclnv: It's not a JCL comment if it's not downvoted to oblivion.
  • 8 1
 @Adamrideshisbike: I agree with you. I hate Outside with the passion of 10,000 burning suns. I cannot stand that publications Insufferable is the perfect word… and of course it’s headquartered in Boulder. We have no choice but to be wait and see what will happen to Pinkbike, but I’m not exactly optimistic.
  • 15 0
 @nouseforaname: True. I have three shadow accounts that I use to downvote myself.
  • 2 0
 @shredddr: Yeah, tupperware is junk. You have to get the Nupont-fiber woven stuff.

  • 4 0
 @Gatoqueso1: This is true but if you look at Beta reviews now, and anything out there in Outside, EVERYTHING is the titanium version. EVERYTHING is the blinged out version. There are alternatives that are suit to purpose that are not the expensive version. Just look at their gear reviews.
  • 11 5
 @Adamrideshisbike: I respect the way PB has been non political, but now that they’re corporate I’m sure that will soon change. There’s a reason big corporations go “woke” and it’s because they can get their money at cheaper rates. It’s all a BS system where they get ranked by how many woke messages they produce. It’s why it’s so rampant ATM when we all know how hypocritical these big companies are who do it. Expect it
  • 3 0
 @jclnv: When you have to supply your own oppression. Very modern.
  • 4 0
 @nouseforaname: We’re all victims.
  • 2 0
 @jclnv: are you and @hamncheez dueling to replace waki?
  • 3 1
 @scotttherider: I still have that +500 upvoted comment about the $700 Enve pressure gauge!
  • 3 0
 @hamncheez: you must have spent days creating that many fake accounts to upvote that many times!!! But the real question is....did those accounts win you any advent or win it Wednesday prizes?
  • 5 0
 @scotttherider: excuse me I used a distributed bot system
  • 6 0
 Screw Outside. This is a terrible move from PB.
  • 3 0
 @eastsideride: Over 2.5k comments and I think you put it best. Agree with you 100%
  • 1 0
 @jmhills: Your probably right, I had never even heard of Beta till yesterday when all this came out, so I can't really speak to it. I have been accused of being a very optimistic person, so hopefully things wont change too much. Time will tell a suppose.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: oh I see! Knew there’s a trick to it! The real question now! Did you win any advent prizes!
  • 1 0

Outside: The Best Places to Mountain-Bike.

Bam. Nailed it...
  • 2 0
 @mattr: brought to you by the local tourism board. I know everything is pay to play, but I'll be skeptical if Outside+ tells me Moose Jaw is the mountain bike capital of the world.
  • 1 0
 @shredddr: I was commenting more on the timing than the content; I didn't even take look when it popped up in my feed.
  • 417 7
 Just make all the e-bike content paid content. That's the only demographic that's going to pay for Outside+ anyways
  • 35 4
 underrated comment
  • 15 2
 Toplel, give that man a cookie.
  • 7 0
 And give cstich 10% of the profits, because he first thought up this brilliant idea!
  • 2 0
 Yes, keep real MTB on this side of the wall. WhtEwalkers
  • 7 0
 @freeriderayward: I don't want that dirty money
  • 4 0
 @cstich brilliant. prolly right. Im hardwired to not pay for these things, I just see "subscribe" and shut down the tab.. let see if we can make thisarticle the most commented ever.. engagement out of anger.. we are just numbers somebody think can be monetized somehow I g uess..
  • 378 8
 I don't think I'll continue my Trailforks subscription if the money is going into Outside's coffers. Outside is primarily "outrageously expensive item is absolutely necessary to enjoy the outdoors and also saves the planet" content. Occasionally they'll have a good longform article but they're few and far between.

It was annoying that Trailforks played on the community aspect to get the maps and trails built up in their system, and then pulled the rug out from under you. Now they're part of a giant media conglomerate. Why should we continue giving them money?
  • 126 5
 Without trail forks making money off the backs of trail organizations and trail builders PB wouldn't be remotely worth what it is to larger companies looking for new investments. Trail forks was a well thought out strategy and was already an early marker that PB had lost its interest in being for the people and was moving towards just being for the profit.
  • 85 1
 I’m more concerned about all the trail associations (including my local one) who have embraced TrailForks as their official mapping platform.

It’s hard to imagine that a large media conglomerate buying TrailForks won’t somehow mess that up.
  • 42 24
 @atourgates: trailforks already is the epitome of capitalism. They make money off the backs of hard working people. The whole trail karma donation thing is just a way to look less shitty about what they did.
  • 78 7
 Servers aren't free... and TFs is still a far better service than mtbproject
  • 8 4
 @TheBearDen: Anyone know of the best alternative to TrailForks?
  • 24 1
 @bman33: Gaia is good. But I did just learn they are owned by outside as well haha.
  • 7 2
 @bman33: I'd recommend checking out MTB Project, but these mapping platforms are very dependent on where you are. I've found Trailforks and MTB Project to be the two most reliable and easy to use.
  • 1 0
 @lopagross: Thanks. I live in Bentonville now (used to be in Denver). Trailforks works great. I know about MTB Project, but haven't ever used it.
  • 10 5
 @bman33: yeah, it's called Strava
  • 23 2
 Y'all know MTB Project is just an REI property, right?
  • 68 0
 "we intend to map every trail in America, and eventually the world, so that Outside+ members can ride, hike, run, and ski with greater confidence and safety."

Safety is a premium feature. Because of course.
  • 8 8
 @salespunk: I new the Strava comment was coming. Yes it works well ,but damn I just can't disconnect it from all the d-bag 'Stravaholes' / a*sholes I know and have seen using it. I know plenty of normal non d-bag folks use it as well....but, Crap....
  • 44 0
 Just wait until you don't have the option of subscribing just to trailforks. At some point the only option will be subscribing to Outside+, where you'll be paying for all the shit you don't want to get the one thing you do.
  • 8 0
 @teagues: not anymore, they're independent again
  • 24 3
 @teagues: except rei is an awesome company. Outside is just venture capitalists seeking a buck in their hobby land.
  • 3 0
 @teagues: I'm pretty sure they split up last year, and Adventure Project has yet to announce a new partner. It seemed like a mutually beneficial partnership, and really helped AP grow over the past few years without forcing consumers to really pay up.
  • 4 7
 Have you seen the prices of Mountain Bikes? Helmets? Gear? Shoes? Parts? I sold a vehicle to buy my bike, and it was low on the spectrum of what you can spend. I get how annoying the disconnect that these publications can have with what is actually "affordable" to the common people, but mountain bikers as a whole have long accepted the cost of things. In MTBing, everything is high end.
  • 6 0
 @bman33: there are far less strava dicks than people make it out to be. unfortunately for people who build secret/special trails, its a really great way to find those secret gems, and also make routes. trail forks was never good for any of that. just remember to turn your heat map off.
  • 4 5
 @newbermuda: Trailforks is amazing at making routes and ride plans. Find a ride log and load it into the app.
  • 28 1
 as a paid employee of a nonprofit who has targeted trailforks as a part of our regional tourism strategy, I am concerned. some one better be busy downloading all the free data we provided to trailforks over the years.
  • 2 1
 @Sharonb: agree to disagree.
  • 4 0
 @bman33: trailguide.net

Just needs users on the other side of the pond.
  • 13 0
 And I just bought a bunch of Trailforks swag for the 4th of July sale. Can I return a used bottle and hat for a refund?
  • 8 61
flag canadaka FL Mod (Jul 14, 2021 at 10:20) (Below Threshold)
 @JoeDick: The brands Outside owns operate pretty independent from what I understand. I don't see things changing much for Trailforks, besides some shared resources and subscriptions. The possibility to work with Gaia on some shared resources and features? Trailforks will be able to hire more staff. Trailforks was doing well before this change and all the people behind Trailforks aren't going anywhere.
  • 52 1
 @canadaka: never, in my career of working with/around PE/VC companies, has their ownership meant “hiring more people.” More often it’s making those already there work more/longer until they crack, squeezing every last dollar out until it’s dry. Expect turnover, and chaos.
  • 10 0
 @TheBearDen: I did not know this but it does not surprise me. Outside is probably run by elite Wall Street money launderers and they need all these places to hide their clients drug money.
  • 1 0
 @lopagross: adventure project was bought by OnX
  • 30 1
 I never was really into Trailforks. I never found it more useful than Mtbproject, komoot, Strava, and osmand. Using those depending on your needs provide more useful mapping and discovery tools. When Trailforks went to a pay model I stopped using it. I already pay a subscription to Strava and have a lifetime membership to Komoot. That is enough for me. I did however leave my auto upload enabled for Trailforks so the data could continue to build the tool for the community and those that did find it useful. Today I logged in to my Trailforks account and disabled the auto upload from Strava. If a mega corporation wants to profit off my back they need to pay me. I don't mind contributing to a community, but I'm out when it comes to helping the mega corporations squeeze every last dime out of my favorite outdoor activity. I encourage everyone to turn off their auto upload for Trailforks. I also look forward to our new corporate overlords censoring and blocking my account for saying this. It's been a fun 20 years Pinkbike, but I'll be surprised if your in my daily future for much longer.
  • 21 0
 @canadaka: the craziest thing about trailforks, is that it relies heavily local sourced information, all given by users…. And it started costing money to the users who kept the app running in the first place. That rubbed me wrong so I started giving Strava my money and using the heat maps.

Same thing is going to happen with PN
  • 3 0
 @justinroehlk: I don’t understand how to use strava as a trail map. All I see are segments scattered all over the place which make no sense.

Someone help m
  • 18 0
 @canadaka: We spend time and money on trailforks for the end user. It is a good platform but the fact that you took a user/club generated data base and started to charge a user fee for it with out any reasonable consultation with the clubs who have been populating the database is a red flag. This deal does not make me feel any better about it.

If organizations are going to continue to put effort into trailforks , the end user should not be paying trailforks with out some option for the trail organization to either spit the user fees or have a way bigger incentive for trail users to donate to clubs. currently we make about $30 a year though trailforks donations.

There were suggestions for having regions open to users via a local tourism boss fee. this was brushed off as too hard to implement. If you want to continue to have clubs spent time and money on the platform these concerns have to be addressed.
  • 6 0
You cannot even map out a ride on the Trailforks app - only select uploaded ride logs or single sections of a trail. This should be a top 3 function, and is unacceptable in an app that is $40.
  • 3 0
 @SvenNorske: You can certainly map out rides on the website - which is where I would choose to do that kind of work, anyway.
  • 5 0
 @jayacheess: Like I said, ridiculous considering how many people don't even use a computer anymore, especially while traveling. I've been to many new trail networks, got some great suggestions on routes from locals, and then realized I can't even map it out. Many route changes and adjustments happen while traveling, at the trailhead, or while riding.
  • 3 0
 @mtallman2: Yes, the company I work for did just that. They call it 'Lean Manufacturing'.

Total BS.
  • 2 3
 @SvenNorske: Fair, yeah. It would definitely be a nice feature to have. Still, I'm surprised that people travel without a laptop or a tablet or some kind.
  • 1 0
 This kerfuffle reminded me to cancel my Early-Adopter $17.95 Pro TF account. I only wanted to help pay PB employees' salaries..... I really only installed it to access a new massive trail system (Mt Bachelor/Bend) because I had no experience there. Didn't need it or use it at all. There are lots of free maps.
  • 6 0
 Yep, I really feel for the people and especially organizations that invested a lot of time and effort into Trailforks. With this deal it definitely ranks as one of the bigger bait and switch maneuvers on an enthusiast community I am aware of.
  • 6 0
 @sspiff: I couldn't give two shits if servers cost more than lumber.
What they did was f*cking slimey.
  • 4 0
 @knutspeed: yes I find it much better to use round here in Europe than Trailforks Smile
  • 2 0
 @ESKato: I really like the lean & fast ui and that popular trails are named like they are known and not cut into 5 pieces so I can download them right into oruxmaps and don't have to deal with the sluggish and badly readable trailforks map
  • 286 5
 Looks like I am going to have to choose between a pinkbike subscription & my onlyfans subscription. This is not the type of pressure I needed mid week.
  • 291 1
 @cyclebean I'm using my OnlyFans to pay for my pinkbike subscription. Get comfortable selling feet pics, bro.
  • 9 6
 @snowwcold55: this is a gold comment man!!!

@cyclebean: I think you’re on the right page here. If I’m paying for content I want the option to see tits! Take not outside!
  • 14 1
 @snowwcold55: Feet? You don't know $$$$ until you let yourself free and really turn up the dial on ankles and elbows..... Big Grin
  • 19 0
 @snowwcold55: is there an athlete's foot fetish out there?
  • 7 0
 @snowwcold55: this comment hurt my ribs so much.
  • 9 0
 @giantwhip: I read an AMA from a ballerina that said she gets paid (significantly) more for feet pictures than from performing. Ballerinas’ feet are friggin gnarly, too.
  • 7 1
 @giantwhip: oh no - now I’m realizing you might not have meant foot pictures from athletes but instead meant fetishized pictures of fungal infections. I’m not sure which one would bring more money…
  • 4 0
 @sjma: ya I went full gnar there. Sorry about that
  • 5 0
 I got some nasty looking toe jam infested hairy Frodo feet, how much can I make?
Pinkbike is O.F. Vital is Pornhub. Long live the Hub!
  • 3 0
 @sjma: how bout we do it all - athletes’ athletes foot
  • 262 1
 Thanks Radek. I've spent countless hours on your site. Genius idea, great job. Now go make a purplebike so we can all move over.
  • 49 0
 I’d bet a large sum of money he has signed a non-compete agreement as part of signing this deal.
  • 5 0
 @scotttherider: Yep, you're probably right. Hopefully others, folks on here that are way more talented, and more technologically versed then me, with pockets of a certain size can put something together. This sale proves a site like this can be profitable.
  • 4 0
 @scotttherider: 3 years at best, give it time.
  • 26 0
  • 12 0
 #Blackbike \m/

This is a Varg killed Euronymous moment.
  • 11 0
 Vital for race coverage, Enduro for reviews, NSMB for nonsensical ramblings, literally all Pinkbike had that was special was comments, so hopefully the community settles somewhere else outside a paywall.
  • 5 0
 @L0rdTom: Comments will never be the same even if there will be no paywall
  • 1 0
 @scotttherider: yep. Savy users realize the thing to hope for is that outside takes long enough to screw it up so that all the noncompetes run out before we’re left with nothing.
  • 224 1
 Remains free: sponsored content. Behind a paywall: everything else.
  • 23 0
 This is so true.
  • 15 3
 Porn is still free. I'll take glory holes over paywalls every day of the week
  • 12 0
 @Boardlife69: I would be hesitant to use a free glory hole....just saying. Big Grin
  • 9 1
 @bman33: Just spectating from safe distance......unless you know where one might be,....for a friend of course.
  • 3 1
 @Boardlife69: of course Big Grin Big Grin
  • 221 2
 "In partnership with Gaia, we intend to map every trail in America, and eventually the world, so that Outside+ members can ride, hike, run, and ski with greater confidence and safety."

What a genuinely horrible and frightening idea.
  • 69 1
 Yeah f*ck that. There’s something to be said about going into the woods with no phone, no strava, just to (responsibly) get lost
  • 63 1
 Looking forward to finding dehydrated food bags, trampled foliage, and Insta "influencers" in their big hats and native pattern print on all the trails!!!
  • 76 1
 Nothing says unspoiled wilderness like thoroughly mapping every square centimeter of the planet's surface for your subscribers.
  • 29 0
 Even regardless of that being something intended for Outside+ members only, I still don't think that every trail should be publicly available... Some things are better off unknown to most people, y'know?
  • 10 0
 @Peally: @MtbRacer97: I was reminded of the Radiohead song Fitter Happier for some reason. Like a pig, in a cage, on antibiotics.
  • 16 5
 Right now Trailforks hides trails that the area managers keep hidden. I wonder if Outside+ members will be able to pay for the privilege of full access down the road?
  • 8 0
 @j-t-g: tf also hides trails they don’t want the land managers to see. I think if they were forced to show those trails, they’d disappear.
  • 17 39
flag canadaka FL Mod (Jul 14, 2021 at 8:45) (Below Threshold)
 @j-t-g: no way that will happen.
  • 14 0
 @jmhills: The nasty virus has pretty much caused this already where I live. A lot of people, who would have otherwise only hiked to the next coffeshop, are flooding the trails and forests. Most of the time without the first idea on how to behave themselves in nature.
  • 48 0
 I would love to see more access to outdoor spaces for everyone. I think a better relationship with outdoor spaces and healthy living could offer a lot to the world. However, I do not see any altruistic intentions in corporations like Outdoor. They are a business. I think the quote would better read: "In partnership with Gaia, we intend to map every trail in America, and eventually the world, so that we can make money from it. The financial model is simple- we own the maps that users generate for us and then sell it to people with little maintenance costs or upkeep. Everything can be sold- including access to natural spaces. We don't maintain trails, get our hands dirty, care about traffic in sensitive areas, whether or not people have the skills to manage themselves in those spaces... it just doesn't matter to us. Maps are commodities and we will sell the s$%t out of them. F$%^ you all. Daddy needs a new Tesla, Patagonia puff and craft Kombucha."
  • 9 0
 Seriously, something about that just sounds wrong and evil on so many levels. Wonder what they'll do when they exclusively hold all that data.
  • 20 0
 I just disabled my auto upload to Trailforks. If mega corps want my data they can pay me. I'll contribute to a community freely but not to our corporate overlords.
  • 2 0
 @georgiamtbiker: how exactly did you do that, like on strava or TF? Mine still auto logs and it's kind of annoying since I've got it super private on strava. Had it setup for that July 2019 ride everyday challenge and now I can't tell how to turn it off. Or do you have to be on a laptop? Thanks!
  • 5 0
 @DylanH93: If you log onto TF on a computer you can find the area to remove the auto upload from strava in the Ride Log section.
  • 1 0
 @georgiamtbiker: F**k yeah, smart move.
  • 3 4
 @BenTheSwabian: It's great that more people are outside. If it's getting too busy, try, whenever possible, going out in the early mornings or evenings, week days, cold days, etc. Try and not to judge who deserves or not to be there.
  • 4 0
 @person-named-john: Sometimes it's the adventure, right? Seems everybody wants certainty anymore. This is why fast food, Starf*cks and Outside+ reign supreme.
  • 1 0
 @georgiamtbiker: thank you!!
  • 193 1
 TLDR: "While our long term business model will evolve, a significant portion of our content will remain free"

That's all folks.
  • 13 1
 I'll bet commenting will require a subscription - which is why many of us come here in the first place
  • 9 1
 They'll make an App and it'll be for free BUT comments can only be accessed with a paid subscription. Now,... the question is:

How much is the PB Comment section worth to the users?!?
  • 8 25
flag mikelevy Mod (Jul 15, 2021 at 15:17) (Below Threshold)
 @SHREDWORX: all the jumping to conclusions.
  • 164 0
 Ain't that ironic after last weeks podcast with RC talking about how the value of Pinkbike is that it is "owned" by the users. All in all I think this will be the beginning of the end for Pinkbike being different than other websites in any appreciable way. All the actual interesting content will be hidden behind paywalls, and all that will be left is souless "tests" (aka ads).

really makes me almost wonder why I paid for trailforks, or bought merch from PB in the past year. and I will certainly be reevaluating that going forward. The fact that I knew my money was going towards supporting the editors and staff of a website/service I used frequently made me happy...now its just going to be a tiny contribution to the Outside coffers. I grew in Calgary, surrounded by the very people who made this website as idols, and have been a part of this website from the very early days. Looks like its back to scouring NSMB for actual content with some heart.

I'll try to be hopeful. but experience tells me otherwise.
  • 30 0
 Couldn't have said it better myself. Having ties in Calgary and BC, and starting mtb'ing right when they launched, I've felt I was a part of PB since the beginning. It's changed over the years, but the community vibe didn't leave, it wasn't owed by the "overseer", and that was obvious in most of the decisions made. That feeling is officially dead. And yeah, great point about PB merch... Who the F wants a corperate website Tshirt or hat?

I also don't buy the "we need to make sure our employees are taken care of" stuff. They were obviously doing just fine over the past few years, and I highly doubt this was a decision that most staff was pleased with.
  • 20 0
 @mammal: it really was what set them apart from the rest, there really isn't many websites that had the community like PB did. What they did for our local riding scenes was incredible, I think a LOT of BC and AB shops can thank them for getting so many kids stoked on the sport. I remember being a grom at the skatepark and downtown Calgary watching these crazy dudes trying to bunnyhop their 50lb bikes onto C-train platforms and being so excited. then being handed a pinkbike sticker from Radek himself...by that night I was a user on the forums (even though i was probably too young to be unsupervised on the internet). and Begged my parents to help me get a Specialized p2 to upgrade from my Bargain finder (god im dating myself) BMX

I'd be lying if this whole thing didn't hurt a bit. Over the years we were "promised" by PB they would not sell their soul to some conglomerate....and here we are. Its not that I don't understand why they chose the road they have, and good on Radek for essentially living the dream "make a company so big you get bought out" ....but just sad times.

Anyone know how to remove silk screening from t-shirts? I like some of my shirts images, but I am not about to advertise for Outside to make more money.
  • 8 0
 My thoughts exactly. Listened to that podcast just yesterday and opened up PB today to see this.
  • 13 2
 Makes Richard Cunningham look like a liar or a damn fool.
  • 60 1
 @suspended-flesh: I first learned about the sale of PB on this post as well. Still thinking it through...
  • 14 0
 @RichardCunningham: Then I respectfully retract my damn fool remark.
  • 9 0
 @RichardCunningham: ....and to clarify, I retract my OWN damn fool remark and am not calling you a liar. Cheers!
  • 10 0
 @RichardCunningham its not your fault your a MTB oracle! you made great points and the timing of it could not have been more fitting unfortunately. too bad Radek didn't listen to it before finalizing the sale...might ahve made him have second thoughts about it.
  • 167 0
 I want my survey answers back
  • 9 0
 From now on the poll option to just see the answers will be premium content.
  • 41 0
 I did wonder who was going to benefit from all that targeted consumer research. Now we know
  • 6 0
  • 14 0
 Lol I actually felt kind of cheated about that. I wasn’t answering that survey for Outside.
  • 2 0
 @johnnyboy11000: I'm not enthused to know that either, and like others wouldn't have offered my free information to them.
  • 130 2
 Fuck outside, literally one of the biggest factors in overcrowding as far as tourism industries are concerned
  • 78 2
 YES, THIS. I'm not a grumpy person, but I have a deep DEEP old-man-grumpiness toward Outside for all their "Top 10 Secret Trails You Should Go Ride Right Now" style articles.
  • 43 0
 "In partnership with Gaia, we intend to map every trail in America, and eventually the world, so that Outside+ members can ride, hike, run, and ski with greater confidence and safety." This certainly doesn't help.
  • 39 0
 Yeah if you have ever had the displeasure of reading a "best 20xx ski" review from outside, it's very clear how they work.

"Our testers have spent x days in [insert name of a huge mainstream resort, a smaller and lesser known very good resort and a popular touring zone] testing this ski.(Random midwidth ski) will allow beginners and experienced skiers to slay the slopes and the powder with confidence in and out of the resorts."

So now you will read something about the best bike of 2024 (specialized something) that was tested in whistler, and on a some rather secret trail in WA or CA and that performs very well for XC, trail and DH and that is perfectly suitable for beginners and experienced riders.
  • 26 0
 @person-named-john: This is terrible. I have a problem with a company that brands itself as an environmental leader yet pushes over-tourism for their own profit.
  • 6 0
 Their reviews are terrible. A list of where not to go.
  • 7 0
 @sarahallen: their cognitive dissonance is showing
  • 4 0
 @zede: deer lord this perfectly worded summary of Outside made me gag
  • 9 0
 @sarahallen: yup, their best “towns to live in” or best “towns to retire in” have fvcked cool towns for ages. It was always the mark of death for any place cool.
  • 6 0
 @ryd-or-die: I must know more of this "deer lord" lol
  • 4 0
 @Stoaks: with the new low price Outside+ subscription we offer you will know the deer lord intimately
  • 110 0
 Gross. There goes the cool vibe, now we go corporate and as a brand, Outside sucks.
  • 17 12
 PB lost its cool over a decade ago.
  • 21 0
 @atrokz: Levy is cool, Kaz seems alright. That's all I've got to say.
  • 99 0
 Self-centered concerns about my enjoyment of the site aside, it is important to really call out that ownership of PB is now in the hands of a US-based, venture capital-backed media house. While I'm sure there is no shortage of crappy employers in Canada it is hard to overstate to the PB crew how much a company like Outside IS NOT YOUR ALLY OR YOUR FRIEND. Your value to Outside will still be measured in page impressions, engagement, comments garnered, and word count, but the people doing the measuring are looking at the value with a more dispassionate eye than the current bosses. You've become significantly more expendable, but they still need your expertise to prop up the the authenticity they purchased. Please sell that expertise as dearly as possible. Be as ruthlessly corporate in your advocacy for yourself as they will be in justifying their own decisions. Finally, please, don't ever, ever let any of your current staff get demoted from employee to contract status. This is America, and you know damn well they're going to try it. Godspeed and good luck.
  • 15 0
 If they have any sense, they will be calling all of their industry contacts to look for a soft landing.
  • 20 0
 One has to wonder if the wave of recent hires, including ones from overseas, knew this was coming. Man, would I EVER be pissed if I moved to a different continent for a dream job and then the employer changed ownership within a month and now I get to be part of a huge conglomerate. Or maybe that level of potential compensation is what lured them? (I have no idea what I'm talking about, but it sure is juicy to speculate)
  • 8 0
 This should be at the top of the comment section for this article.
  • 11 0
 @87vr6: agree.

The point about the money being based on the USA is huge. The last thing these guys want is “controversial “ comments sections. Nice knowing y’all.
  • 4 1
 I think we also need to make the distinction here between a Venture Capital Company and a Private Equity company. I've seen some comments here that suggest people think they are the same thing. Truth is they operate on a very different model.

Private Equity or Buyout firms are the ones that often really run a company into the ground. These firms buy existing companies, usually struggling ones, and often bleed them dry. These are the ones where you see the extreme cost cutting, excess debt, etc.

Venture Capital on the other hand is growth oriented. These investors are looking to invest in something small and grow it. In this case its a media company that's growing by acquisitions. The general VC model would suggest that there will be alot of investment up front, and not much worry about actual profit for right now as they can just burn through the VC cash. They will almost be exclusively focused on increasing users and page views as that growth is what will drive the increase in company valuation (which is a VC's main focus).

So in the near term I don't see a total disaster in terms of layoffs, restructuring, etc. It will probably be just fine for the employees in the short terms. Its a few years down the road when it comes time for an exit strategy that may be the problem. VC's are not indefinite and they will look to either sell the company or take it public at some point. That's just the way it works. VC investment is temporary and there is always an exit plan, whether it be acquisition, IPO, or just straight pulling the plug if the business sucks.
  • 2 0
 @sino428: Sorry but I don't think you understand what PE is. PE owns the majority of business in the US... Hence the company isn't publicly owned/traded. PE takes on many shapes and sizes. Sometimes its a family business that owns a few restaurants or small businesses. Sometimes they own a portfolio of small and medium size businesses across a variety of sectors. Sometimes they make early stage investments (i.e. VC). Sometimes its a more of an LBO firm... It's all PE and they ALL use their capital to borrow money to buy/invest businesses they own. It's financially irresponsible not to with the current tax structure and interest rates, which is a whole other issue.

I get that people have bad experiences with some PE backed businesses. I have to. Ownership screws up and makes poor choices like all of us do from time to time. However, it's not reasonable to say that the dominate capital structure of US companies "really run a company into the ground." On the whole most shops do a good job for the business and provide them capital and expertise to grow which is why they are able to raise trillions of dollars to buy companies. The couldn't raise this amount of money consistently if they "bleed them dry" and generate modest returns... These investors want 4X/5X returns, at a minimum, and that simply doesn't happen if the company isn't successful by a broad number of metrics.
  • 7 0
 @dhx42: No I understand just fine. You are mixing everything and calling it private equity, which is technically correct, but it practical everyday use, the term PE generally means buyout/growth equity firms. People are not referring to VC firms when they say "Private Equity".

I have plenty of experience with both VC and tradition PE/LBO firms. 4-5x returns at a minimum? Not realistic. Looking at the last 25 years returns in the range of 2-2.5x would get a US PE firm into the top quartile (depending on vintage year). With fees & things like dividend recaps, many firms can easily suck a 2x return out of an investment while running it into the ground.
  • 96 0
 "Karl and Radek are involved in senior leadership positions"

This generally means as the owners they were given some cushy well paid job for the time being in exchange for some kind of non-compete clause for a few years. Their influence over Pinkbike will slowly fade over the course of a few years after which they will quietly move on.

And for the record I say good for them. If they were able to cash out and can now move on with some big money in the bank I say go for it and thanks for what you built. They don't owe us anything.
  • 39 0
 known as golden handcuffs in the tech world. it's 100% what happened here.

also, all the key people (Brian, Kaz, Levy, et. al.) also got a similar, yet smaller deal to stay for a certain amount of time. they tie it to stock grants and their vesting schedule.

good on all those that hit paydirt, but RIP what we know as PB.
  • 7 10
 Did you ever think Karl and Radek may want to move on and do something else? Or maybe they no longer want to manage the day to day operation.

This started as a passion project so I am sure they want the want to ensure the transition goes smoothly and PB to be successful longterm...

FWIW most sales are actually successful and work. Sure, we will see what happens here, but I bet it will be good for PB in the long-run.
  • 4 0
 @dhx42: I'm not sure I'd say most sales are succesful. There are plenty that fail and deals in the print/online media space have been especially prone to failure over the last few years. Also "successful" canh ave different meanings. This deal could be successful for Outside and add traffic to their site and make them money, but at the same time turn Pinkbike into something that its core readers no longer have any interest in.
  • 3 4
 @sino428: The deals that go wrong get the most press. There are a lot of transactions that occur that you never know about and the companies are very successful post change - know one really notices there was a change. I hear you on the "definition" of success but any good PE shop would tell you that success comes from ensuring your two key stakeholders - employees and costumers see increased value and scope. Without that the business doesn't really grow and benefit the last stakeholders - ownership... People citing other metrics as you mention are simply rationalizing a bad deal...

People wouldn't buy businesses if the process wasn't successful the majority of the time. Sometimes buyers get it wrong, hire the wrong people, make mistakes, etc. but, for the most part, they are able to steer things in the right direction that benefits the businesses customer base (otherwise the business wouldn't be successful). I am not saying Outside couldn't royally screw this up. Pinkbike is highly sensitive with a broad/influential userbase and multiple stakeholders where you need to balance both bike and internet culture... it's definitely higher degree of difficulty than most transactions.
  • 2 0
 Most reasonable comments I've ever read on PB. Well said.
  • 3 0
 They are just Roskopping. They earned it. It looks like Santa Cruz bikes survived, but they have a real product. Not optimistic for PB.
  • 3 0
 @suspended-flesh: Let's just hope Waystar Royco doesn't send in Tom Wambsgans to cut the fat.
  • 2 3
 Generally completely agree. But. Trailforks. They owe the people and organizations that invested the time and effort to make that platform something of any value. In a big way.
  • 2 0
 @sino428 Concur, well said.
  • 92 0
 And it begins:
"...a significant portion of our content will remain free."
  • 86 3
 Another Pay Site, cool.
  • 58 1
 Honestly if this post had just been Pinkbike saying they were going to start charging a subscription fee for some content I would not even care. The digital media/advertising landscape has changed alot and many sites have had to do this. I would understand and maybe even buy the subscription it it was reasonable.

The worry for me is the selling out to a big conglomerate. These type of things ever seem to end well. When some big brand tries to combine a bunch of unrelated shit under one "umbrella" it usually turns into a disaster. When I come to PB its for mountain bike content, thats it. I don't want "collaborations with other brands and sports" All you end up with is watered down garbage.
  • 2 1
 @sino428: you do realize there's always been a pay subscription option right? And at a very reasonable price.
  • 15 1
 If the product is free, you are the product.
  • 26 0
 @piratetrails: Now you can pay to be the product!!!
  • 1 0
 well they killed the PB

- List more than 20 buysell items at any time. Up to 500 items.
- Add more than 50 buysell items to wishlist. Up to 500 items.
- Become a beta tester and see features of pinkbike as they are developed.
- Additional Photo view features like up to 126 photos per page
Trailforks Pro membership $35.99 Details
Get Trailforks PRO membership for free as part of Outside+.
See full list of features Trailforks PRO membership
  • 66 0
 Really disappointing. Nothing against Outside, but these big media companies that own so many different publications is definitely bad for journalism as a whole. It can really stifle differing opinions, and it turns each publication into just another revenue stream. I think Pinkbike's independence is one of the things that has made it a major player in the MTB world. I really hope that pb doesnt lose that certain something that made it what it is. Also very disappointed about the subscription model. I understand that money needs to come in for the content to happen. However, i think equal access to information is hugely important in all aspects of society. I think that however you need to monetize it, ok i get it, but i think that whatever is posted should be available to everyone. Or perhaps it should be a private publication, and everyone should pay. In which case, the product will need to be worth the money.
  • 19 5
 Pinkbike has been eating all the shit the industry could feed it over the last few years though, try and find a divergent opinion on E bikes or carbon being published here, I dare you.
  • 3 1
 @TheMountainViking: At least they let us filter it out. I haven't heard a peep about E-bikes here other than from a couple well-known Electric Trolls....
  • 70 1
 This is far outside of what I was expecting.
  • 43 0
 And now for the Beta version of Pinkbike. Paywall!
  • 2 1
 Was thinking about a Peloton ride but may celebrate by going outside for a spin.
  • 68 1
 If anyone tells me how to get rock hard abs, I'm punching my computer
  • 24 0
 Every two weeks Jason Statham will be on the front page talking about his early life as an Olympic diver and just below that will be his 10 key steps to shoulders that rock.
  • 20 0
 FIVE ways to nail that road gap in time for summer Here's The One Thing That Made Bunnyhopping Easier Than Just Riding Along
  • 4 0
 FIVE ways to nail that road gap in time for Summer Here's The One Thing That Made Bunnyhopping Easier Than Just Riding Along
  • 5 1
 Pretty sure that's Men's Journal's area of expertise. I'm thankful to Outside for giving basically every member of Bike magazine's staff a position when AMI decided to use the Adventure Sports Network (the group of magazines that Bike was part of) as a tax write-off.

Also planks and v-sits are how you get those abs you're after. ;-)
  • 1 0
 Best comment right here.
  • 1 0
 @TheBearDen: Jason Statham was an Olympic diver???? No Way!!
  • 4 0
 @Gatoqueso1: sorry my bad. Only made it to the commonwealth games.... my information is sometimes good, sometimes shit. lol
  • 4 0
 @TheBearDen: I'm just going to continue believing that this Jason Statham trivia is actually true, and tell everyone that will listen. Not only was he an Olympic diver, he took a silver medal in the '88 Games in Seoul.
  • 63 0
 ..... and then Disney buys the Outside group, imagine all the cool crossover potential:

"Singlespeederbike adventures in Endor"
"Spiderman vs Assegai: Which grips better?"
"The circle of life: 27.5 is back in fashion!"
"Moirnsters Inc"

See? Media homogenisation isn't so bad.
  • 5 0
  • 19 0
 Top 10 reasons why Bentonville is the MTB Disneyland
  • 64 4
 Thanks for a good run, Radek and Carl. Congrats on selling out, it’s literally the dream! I’m nervous what this means for Pinkbike—I remember conversations just a few years ago weighing heavily on how Pinkbike (and Trailforks, lol) would always be free to the end-user; how the goal of Pinkbike was to create new mountain bikers and fans of mountain biking in the most accessible way. It’s difficult to believe that this can continue to be Pinkbike’s goal under Outside—but I understand that things change, and I know there’s a lot of people at PB who are going to work really hard to keep the ship on track. I’m also excited to see what positive things come with deeper pockets- it’s a double edged sword, and it can’t be all bad.
  • 65 8
 Mixed feelings here. Outside saved Bike Mag in the form of Beta. I really enjoyed Bible of Bikes, and their very methodical testing and round table discussion. I feel Beta is still trying to find its speed, but is making good progress. I think all in all, Outside was good for Beta. I pay for Beta, Trailforks, and now Strava. It isn't much for me, but 10 years ago I may not have been able to afford that along with all of other life's bills. I am interested to see what becomes of Pinkbike, and hope it doesn't lose its charm. Pinkbike almost feels to me like Topgear. The bike stuff is awesome, but the shenanigan's and chemistry the staff have is what keeps bringing me back. Good luck PB team, I know this wont change your dynamic, and I am sure you will still keep pumping out the goods.
  • 63 120
flag brianpark FL Editor (Jul 14, 2021 at 6:40) (Below Threshold)
 Thank you! The whole Pinkbike editorial team is along for the ride and I plan on building on that chemistry. I know we'll still be talking smack in the podcast, being tech dorks, and having fun at Field Test. (we're up in Sun Peaks right now for summer Field Test)
  • 6 4
 @brianpark: That's awesome! The podcast is pretty amazing, and keeps getting better. I always love the field test's, and am excited to see what you have for the next one. Thanks for responding Smile
  • 11 0
 If I add up all subscriptions, for things like news, trails, music, movies, communication, it's slowly becoming a serious amount per month. For me personally I can afford it but I guess a lot of (young) people or people in poorer countries can not. Furthermore I like to read several reviews on a product. That's why a like(d) Pinkbike and the like. Luckily there's still a lot of free content...........for now.
  • 28 0
 @dennis72: Why I don't pay for services in general. 800 services all costing $2/month adds up and none of them add enough to my life where I wouldn't rather just have the $2.

I'm almost purely down to rent, internet, and basic mechanical utilities for monthly bills and it's amazingly convenient. If I get bored, I go outside and ride bikes instead of hopping on Netflix or whatever to rot my brain for $8.
  • 6 0
 Pocket Outdoor Media started the title Beta with the former Bike Mag staff... and then this February POM bought Outside Integrated Media and rebranded it all to the name Outside - highly confusing but I guess POM essentially saved Bike Mag and Outside haha. Hopefully they can all settle into their own and thrive under the new title, it's sad to see all these titles start to lose their soul.
  • 3 3
 @Peally: we'll talk after you buy a house (with cash) and type your PB comments using free wifi in the library.
  • 8 0
 I'm not so sure I'd say Beta is making good progress.... it's almost exactly like Bike Mag, but now they hide 50% of their content behind a paywall and don't have much of anything that's new other than tired product reviews. I paid for the subscription too, but only because it was 75% off. I don't think they'd make it if they weren't propped up by Outside's funding.
  • 8 0
 Way to ruin this tread with some positivity!
  • 15 13
 Everyone's complaining about paying for Trailforks and now this, but from a product standpoint Trailforks needs some improvement, and now they have the company behind them to invest in it. I know this will trigger a lot of you cool cats and boomers here, but Trailforks could literally be a trail/bike based social media platform. MTB seems like an afterthought to Strava so it's ripe for the taking. To the naysayers, I'd rather argue with you guys on PB/Trailforks comments than on FB comments any day of the week, ya filthy animals.
  • 10 1
 Damn bro. Kool Aid mustache is showing...
  • 8 0
 @Peally: $8 a month is waaaaayyy cheaper than meth. Or so I hear.
  • 12 0
 @brianpark: I hope you're still sponsored by Sierra Nevada, you'll be needing a few beers after this feedback.
Hope you pleasantly surprise us all...
  • 4 0
 There will be no Beta in 6 months. It shall be folded into Pinkbike, which is far more successful.
  • 6 0
 @brianpark: Field tests are among the first things to go behind a paywall, right?
  • 54 0
 Ehhh, I mean I'll keep reading/watching and see how it shakes out of course, but I liked the current set up and I'm generally skeptical of conglomerating all media under one umbrella. We've seen this many, many times before and it usually doesn't end well. Outside wasn't even Outside until they acquired Outside Mag earlier this year and re-branded into whatever buzzword type media conglomerate they are marketing themselves as now. I can see more and more stuff moving to their paid subscription model over the near term, then Outside selling their entire portfolio to some bigger capital firm, then in a few years, that capital firm will do what they always do which is not innovate and just strip all the parts of the portfolio and shut down half of the IP it now owns.
  • 10 0
 Unfortunately you aren't wrong. That's how it usually seems to go in these type of deals.
  • 56 0
 I cant really see how this would be a good thing
  • 26 0
 Does this mean you now have the money to fund Ben Cathro's downhill team? If not then I really cant see how this would be a good thing
  • 37 3
 @Bobadeebob: ☜(゚ヮ゚☜) ayyyyyyy
  • 21 66
flag brianpark FL Editor (Jul 14, 2021 at 7:33) (Below Threshold)
 @Bobadeebob: yep, taking on bigger projects like that is the goal!
  • 15 1
 @brianpark: ok fine theres ONE good thing. But I'm still in a right bad mood. If you send me icecream I might start to cheer up. But I'm not promising anything.
  • 2 0
 @Bobadeebob: I'd seriously rather just put $100 in a f*cking envelope and send it to Ben myself. But instead now he gets to have outside input to his content and 60 cents on the dollar to make it so somebody else can pad their portfolio.
  • 55 1
 Outside is yuppie bullshit for people who ride 10k ebikes in Patagonia vests. I predict a paywall to some site features within a year.
  • 11 1
 You've got more money/credit than you know what to do with! Consoom more outdoor gear! It's trendy!
  • 55 0
 This is the first time I've seen all of the PB commenters agree on something.
  • 25 0
 pick a corporate owner and be a dick about it
  • 51 0
 Going to cancel my trailforks subscription I think. I was okay with the idea of paying to help the app grow but I don’t want to pay to help out some venture capitalists not invest in the app they just bought for a bunch of money.

Good for you hradek. But I have no interest in paying for anything from outside.
  • 37 3
 Yeah, the trailforks thing kind of grinds my gears. Relied on community to pay and build it, then they sold it to a bunch of venture capitalists based on the work the community did to grow it...
  • 4 0
 For me it's because I'm already paying for Gaia. Why should I pay the same company twice for a mapping app?
  • 6 0
 ^This. I never paid for it, but I did leave mu auto upload turned on. Today I turned off my auto upload.
  • 3 4
 @georgiamtbiker: how many times are you going to post this?
  • 4 1
 @Themissinglink83: I believe three is the number. Does that bother you?
  • 50 1
 "It changes gradually, then all at once"

If you are still taking free product and promotion from the industry, don't put it behind a paywall. You can't have it both ways.

The baller move here: Tell the industry to stuff it. Buy everything at retail. Throw the shiytt stuff to the wolves and only praise the truly great products. Get your boosted ad revenue from tangential sources (ford, subaru, clif bar, beats, whatever).

I'd pay to see that.

It has to be either FREE or UNFILTERED. It can't be neither.
  • 7 0
 Sounds a bit like Blister Gear Review. They're happy to call shit out as shit.
  • 49 4
 Great...... I had to stop following Outside Mag on socials due to their never ending political and virtue signaling stories and articles. PINKBIKE PLEASE KEEP POLITICS AND SOCIAL ISSUES OUT OF YOUR ARTICLES AND STORIES !!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 38 27
 go woke go broke
  • 14 3
 I second this
  • 27 4
 Fuck, you guys are scaring me. One of the biggest things I liked about pinkbike was the escape from politics and social justice shit. That stuff is already absolutely everywhere. Combining politics and sports is the worst idea ever.