Prototype Devinci and Radon Bikes, New Lapierre Colours, and Trick FOX Springs - Lourdes World Cup

Apr 9, 2015

by Mike Levy

Radon's Prototype DH Bike

Radon is a German brand that offers everything from hardtails to electric bikes to their Swoop 210 downhill sled, and the prototype shown here looks to be an evolved example of the latter. There's no word on travel or geometry (although I'm willing to bet it's slacker and lower than the production version) but the bike's tubing is clearly different compared to what a consumer has access to. There's a new set of fork bumpers / cable guides bolted on just behind the head tube, but its very different suspension rocker arm is much more interesting. Also of note are the Magura MT7 'Raceline' brakes and FOX's RAD suspension on the front and back of the bike.

FOX's Trick Steel Spring

We've posted somewhere between three and four hundred photos of FOX's prototype DH shock over the last year that it's been in development, but there's something new to talk about here: the very orange coil spring that's on it. The spring, which appears to be from FOX rather than another company, is said to be steel rather than titanium. You're might be asking yourself why the top World Cup racers are using steel springs... Rumor has it that the steel springs that FOX has sourced are actually lighter than a titanium version of the same length and rate, which would be mighty impressive. The real interesting thing to note here has nothing to do with World Cup racers, but rather the average consumer who purchases his or her own parts: even a high-end steel coil spring is going to cost less than a relatively inexpensive titanium version, and it will also likely be available in more rate options.

Lapierre ONE Industries Matching Bikes

Lapierre's Gravity Republic team had their latest bikes out on display, complete with a tidy paint job that matches their One Industries team kit. One of the bikes was also sporting what looks to be a slightly different linkage, although it wasn't clear what the changes accomplished. Don't be surprised to see Loic Bruni place well after his strong showing at Crankworx not too long ago.

The Wilson's New Carbon Swingarm

Stevie Smith won't be racing in Lourdes due to a foot injury - the opposite side to the ankle he broke last year, by the way - but the rest of the Devinci team are in France with some fresh Wilsons. The 650B wheeled bike still features an aluminum front triangle, although we can expect a carbon version in the future, but there's a new carbon swing arm that's quite a bit different to what was used on the previous bike. It doesn't look different from the drive-side, but a look at opposite side of the bike shows that it uses a new shape with separate upper and lower elements to it. A quick call to Devinci revealed that the new carbon swing arm came about from the DGR team working with the company's engineers in search of even more rigidity, and that it doesn't change the bike's geometry. It's not a big leap to guess that Devinci will likely be offering this on production models in the future, either.

Posted In:
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121 Comments

202 8

aoneal (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:36)

"steel springs that FOX has sourced are actually lighter than a titanium version"

FOX must own a magic wand.

32 0

five5hot (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:45)

Alohomora!

62 57

RedBurn (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:45)

yeah that's bullshit

for the guys who don't know:
-Steel density = 8500 kg/m³
-Titanium density = 4500 kg/m³

85 6

WayneParsons (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:51)

given how thick that coil is, maybe its hollow?

145 8

Jimmy0 (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:57)

@RedBurn yes thank you for those numbers. now it is indisputable that the new steel springs cannot possibly be lighter than a titanium spring. because there are no other properties to these metals aside from densities.

56 6

samsq (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:58)

@Redburn You're forgetting a few things. For one, there are many alloys of steel, and the one being used by fox isn't necessarily that dense. More importantly, you're forgetting that if the steel alloy had better elastic and tensile strength than titanium, less material would need to be used, and and the spring could be lighter than TI while being denser.

32 4

hampsteadbandit (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:08)

@samsq

alloying elements make little to no noticeable difference to the density of the base metal, because they constitute such a small amount of the overall material quantity

jrocksdh (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:09)

Well, giants been using the hybrid, metal composite spring. ..trend movn away from Ti.

cthorpe (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:09)

Could one really create and alloy that will allow you to use less than half the amount of material to offset that much density difference? the other allows would be adding weight too. If so then I'm impressed. But im sure FOX will market it in some way and charge equal or more than its titanium counterpart.

41 0

Fix-the-Spade (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:11)

A few years ago K9 were selling steel springs that had weights competitive with Ti springs. The only proviso was that they cost even more than Ti springs, so you went even faster with all the extra weight removed from your wallet.

12 0

Ploutre (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:13)

Stendec/SA Springs are already selling some lighter-than-titanium springs, and for a lot cheaper

sOOper-nOOb (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:16)

31 2

maxmerkle (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:19)

They're most likely coiled tubing (hollow), you angry weirdos!!!

samsq (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:39)

@hampsteadbandit You are correct, my b.

RedBurn (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:43)

I was speaking in general ... same spring with same Height/Diameter/dimensions, the titanium one is lighter .. report weight/resistant is the best with Ti

16 2

guigui333 (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:45)

of course its coiled tubing... a spring that size that would not be hollow could probably take a 1000 pounds person on the bike to sag properly

dpodgajski (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:52)

I am just intrested in durability and damping consistency over longer period of time.

17 8

deeeight (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:57)

As above...its tubing coiled into a spring, not solid wire. Saddle makers have been offering hollow steel saddle rails, which are bent around at the nose end of the saddle 180 degrees in a very small space for twenty years now. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you could keep bending it around to make a coil spring from the same tubing. Also there are a number of steel alloys WAYYYY stronger than the best titanium alloys available. Aermet 100 for example has been available to the sporting industry since the mid-90s and its twice as strong as Ti 6Al/4V. Even with the greater density a structure made in titanium would be lighter using Aermet 100 steel (and there are stronger steels available to the military/aerospace industries than that).

10 1

Toddmac1 (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:58)

Purchased a 350lbs Stendec spring last year, it's about 10 grams lighter than my old Ti spring & it's steel.

faul (Apr 9, 2015 at 14:13)

Why No one has made a coil from a tube instead of a wire yet? Seems pretty easy to do except for the ends.

vic690 (Apr 9, 2015 at 14:14)

Italian made Stendec / EXT shox steel springs are lighter and cheaper than titanium ones .. i bought 300 and 325 lbs springs and both are lighter than tisprings .. and let me tell it .. way cooler ...

marcus2065 (Apr 9, 2015 at 14:17) (Below Threshold)

Bang on how can they make a steel spring lighter unless they are using less material which could be replicated on a ti spring

hamncheez (Apr 9, 2015 at 14:18)

stendecworks.com/springs for those interested.

deeeight (Apr 9, 2015 at 14:31)

@marcus... It could be but hollow titanium tubing costs a LOT more than solid wire so if you really want to go that route, expert to pay roughly double what you already do for a titanium spring. And the weight savings won't be as much as you think.

fla3h (Apr 9, 2015 at 15:28)

Well , I believe that since sciolism is worse than ignorance you better take a look here : www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1298

Both materials have more properties than "weight", "density" , "stiffness" and "blab blah blah" .... Also stiffness as you can find out is called Young's modulus. If you people are going to play scientists around here ,do it right PLEASE

whitebullit (Apr 9, 2015 at 15:39)

450lb is the highest the stendec goes too. too bad i need a 500.

Madtown (Apr 9, 2015 at 15:55)

Are the spring rates the same for the Standec springs as say your normal steel spring?

five5hot (Apr 9, 2015 at 15:58)

@fla3h www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPxs0Qh72kY&feature=youtu.be&t=34s

fla3h (Apr 9, 2015 at 16:03)

@five5hot hahahaha i mean YOU , no j/k .... just those who spit out some terms just to show off

samsq (Apr 9, 2015 at 16:07)

@fla3h No shit, but considering how most people here aren't engineers, simple terms are more than sufficient.

wakaba (Apr 9, 2015 at 16:09)

Reduce the springrate and the diameter of the spring wire is smaller. My 150lb spring is massively lighter than my 450lb. Tubing, channeling might be another way to save weight.

fla3h (Apr 9, 2015 at 16:18)

@samsq Agreed ofc

that is sound . But I think that if somebody is interested in that transition from steel to ti SOOOOOOOO much ,he can do some research instead of justifying that move with indifferent terms ........ I mean just say you like TI because it's the trend , it's not bad ....I like it too , even If I do not deserve it as a rider cause of my potential

Generally speaking Sam ofc , have a great day

TheSavageBeagle (Apr 9, 2015 at 16:27)

many steel alloys have a higher strength (yield and ultimate) and stiffness (young's modulus) than even the most expensive titanium alloys. Titanium has a lower density, and therefore a higher specific strength (strength/weight). But that's not what you care about when designing springs, which are typically stiffness-critical components.

freeride-forever (Apr 9, 2015 at 16:58)

Well if I'm spending roughly the same amount of money then I opt for the solid Ti rod that is less dense, probably stronger, harder, more flexible, more fatigue resistant & definitely more corrosion resistant. If you wanna bring the price down, or better yet do the same thing with Ti then that might be something to talk about.

I'd imagine with the added hardness & strength of Ti it'd be quite a bit harder to do a Ti tube, but they make 'em for frames so why not for springs? Weight savings wouldn't be as large as with the steel but still, it'd be a nice piece of hardware.

skylinespeed (Apr 9, 2015 at 17:40)

I think they are joking.

superxi6 (Apr 9, 2015 at 17:50)

Shape factor is everything with metals

deeeight (Apr 9, 2015 at 18:07)

Titanium springs are rarely "stronger" than steel springs. They're strong "enough" for the task, but steel alloys are superior in strength, stiffness, hardness, and durability. There's a lot of myths about titanium touted by bicycle makers that offer ti frames to sell people on them, and corrosion resistance and weight savings is about all that the material really has going for it over what's doable in "common" steels. To use Aermet 100 again as an example... it was developed specifically to REPLACE titanium in aerospace and military applications. It has much better stress corrosion cracking and fracture toughness properties. Among its uses are in armor plating and the landing gear of US Navy aircraft. There are two other Aermet steels that are even stronger still.

www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=c68ffba520144c63937533388a51e9f9 --- aermet 100

www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=0c4383b4e824496eb3721b8164654fc7 ---- aermet 310

www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=64583c8ce6724989a11e1ef598d3273d ---- aermet 340

43 1

MountainSensei (Apr 9, 2015 at 18:14)

...and on this episode of Nerds VS. Assholes... Lets meet our contestants...

flashpoint50 (Apr 9, 2015 at 18:30)

Maybe this will end the discussion.................or start a new one:-)

www.popularmechanics.com/technology/news/a13919/new-steel-alloy-titanium

11 2

pinnityafairy (Apr 9, 2015 at 18:39)

I use this great stuff called Air in my rear shock. It is adjustable without spending any money on new parts. It is lighter than steel and Ti. I get this air for free also.

MARTYL76 (Apr 9, 2015 at 18:41)

Its probably hollow! I wonder how there gonna hold up!

neroleeloo (Apr 9, 2015 at 18:50)

The article doesnt say they state steel is lighter than titanium but only that they found a way to make a lighter COIL SPRING than how current ti springs are being made

mikelee (Apr 9, 2015 at 21:57)

I have one of the stendec steel coils. It's 375lbx3 and it weighs just over 310grams with the spacer included. It only has 6 coils and fits all shocks including my vivid. Most Ti coils at these measurements are a lot heavier especially the likes of nuke proof! It's uses a alloy mix taken from a car rally teams project. All the info is on stendecs site. Which is owned by Danny harts ex wc mechanic. These are the springs the giant team were using for a few seasons. For £80 it's pretty good price too.

naptime (Apr 9, 2015 at 23:51)

Hollow?

MatthewCarpenter (Apr 10, 2015 at 0:03)

one thing is for shure: if it's lighter than a Ti spring and superior or identical in other properties, it will cost as much or more than Ti-Springs. It's not as if market prices mirror the costs of production.

mikelee (Apr 10, 2015 at 0:19)

Mine is not hollow. It's normal thickness too.

omidtehhun (Apr 10, 2015 at 2:00)

It would be worth remembering that there are a ton of different steel alloys, all with different mass densities and a ton of different elastic moduli to describe how different materials respond to mechanical stresses (there are a million different moduli/ratios to describe how materials respond to pretty much anything actually).

WAKIdesigns (Apr 10, 2015 at 2:53)

Mm so much debating and quoting scientific facts that photo of each spring on scale will solve

I am no holier than thou, I've been here for five years, I know how it rolls. just sayin'

yxbix (Apr 10, 2015 at 5:43)

a hollow spring would blow my mind

Joelrider (Apr 10, 2015 at 11:43)

Fox Thinking---

"If Ohlins have a Yellow Spring, we will have a Orange Spring! Surprise MotherF*Cka!"

guigui333 (Apr 10, 2015 at 14:03)

i'll just wait for the carbon springs... wich will inevitably come

WAKIdesigns (Apr 10, 2015 at 14:29)

rockshox has a shock with air spring surrounded by carbon

Willie1 (Apr 11, 2015 at 7:25)

Spring steels are usually 95+% iron.

1095= o.95% carbon, 0.3% manganese, a few traces of impurities, the remainder iron.
1084= 0.84% carbon, 0.8% manganese, a few impurities, the rest iron.
9260= 0.55% carbon, 0.9% manganese, 2% silicon, traces, the rest iron.
5160=0.6% carbon, 0.9% manganese, 1.5% nickel, traces, the rest iron.

I fail to see the significant difference in weight some claim with different alloys. At most you will see a 2% difference in weight.

9260 is what the high end springs are made of. The silicon basically doubles the springiness of the steel. 5160 was used by the auto industry for years, but cheaper similar Chinese alloys have replaces them in the 80s and 90s.

How do I know this? I make custom knives, and some spring and tool steels make great knives. You have to know the composition to heat treat it correctly. The small alloy differences can have a huge impact on heat treat.

WAKIdesigns (Apr 11, 2015 at 8:45)

I see 100% chance of solving this debate whether Fox lies about the weights or not, by putting that ginger spring on kitchen scale... do not underestimate kitchen scales - without them market for high end mountain biking components would collapse. No one would sell a single Ti bolt if kitchen scales suddenly ceased to exist.

28 1

OscarJames (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:37)

Bloody hell Stevie is having some serious bad luck.

11 2

RedBurn (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:49)

When you ride downhill at that level, you accept inevitable consequences... sad :'(

13 0

radman13 (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:45)

All these new posts about the start of the World Cup races this weekend has got me stoked.. but it'd be cool to get some RedBull video or something to help build the hype. This season is surely going to be a good one and it could use a little more umfff if you know what I mean

jrocksdh (Apr 9, 2015 at 14:25)

I agree, the build up has been pretty soft.

nutelladonut (Apr 9, 2015 at 21:59)

Claudio and Loic just made the red bull vid

16 0

botabota (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:58)

Radon...another bike that looks like a Sesh.. or Kon...oh, forget it...

17 1

Fix-the-Spade (Apr 9, 2015 at 15:06)

Where can I get one of these SeshorKonohs?

yxbix (Apr 10, 2015 at 5:44)

...and in those colors it also "looks like a Glory"

UPD: there should be a company doing all these crazy mixtures of existing bike designs

14 0

probi (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:54)

Is there anyone NOT on magic mary's?

10 1

wolftwenty1 (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:13)

Trek World Racing team is definitely not...

10 0

MmmBones (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:41)

...Leov had a Magic Mary on the front of his Trek at the last EWS round

HerrDoctorSloth (Apr 9, 2015 at 17:13)

Hutchinson UR Team?

jaydawg69 (Apr 10, 2015 at 9:29)

Specialized

17 4

brussell (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:16)

That Lapeirre has to be one of the best looking DH bikes I've seen in a while.

getschwiftyclub (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:51)

Regarding the frame everything flows and lines up. The toptube and seatstays are inline, I like how the bottom portion of seatpost support lines up with the linkage at the pivot, and the upper portion of the seatpost support parallels the angle of the downtube. Aesthetically pleasing. I'd desticker those wheels though.

AllMountin (Apr 9, 2015 at 16:07)

Good Lourdes, that's sexy!

aly-14 (Apr 10, 2015 at 15:09)

I love the new Lapierre

12 3

mate1998 (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:35)

Wilson's rear got the spesh demo treatment

rickaybobbay (Apr 9, 2015 at 16:12)

its super fucking thick and looks kinda ridiculous in yellow. idk why they designed it like that, looks horrible

brownstone (Apr 9, 2015 at 19:53)

my buddy just cracked his carbon wilson frame on the swing arm, apparently it wasn't the first one, I can see why they 'overbuilt' it

connor-rix (Apr 9, 2015 at 20:25)

Yeah it looks bad that's all that matters. Down hill is all about looks remember guys? smh

yazzie (Apr 9, 2015 at 18:14)

Remember when mountain bikers used to ride? If we a shitty walmart tire or grips duct taped on, mismatched BMX pedals bald on one side? Clapped out leaky suspension? And their always was a stripped rusted ass bolt? And we still ride the shit outta trails and not give a shit? No we're arguing about titanium and steel densities? Gary fisher is rolling over in his grave and the freggin guy ain't even dead!!!!

22 0

iamamodel (Apr 9, 2015 at 20:21)

Gary Fisher will roll over in his grave with more efficiency since he loves 29ers so much.

naveednasir (Apr 9, 2015 at 14:12)

Can't believe Stevie Smith is out again, he's been injured since he won the overall, I mean talk about bad luck - Rat Boy breaks his foot and comes back but Smith needs to be back racing, his overall win was the stuff of a real bona fide champion.

bmxkory (Apr 9, 2015 at 20:23)

The added brace in the Wilson seatstay is a pretty solid idea. I caved in my original aluminum seatstay and upgraded to a carbon one. I cracked it all the way through in the same spot. I'm on my third seatstay now and it's been holding up. Gotta love the lifetime warranty!

getschwiftyclub (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:38)

I love this part of the year where we get to see all the new goodies, whether you like them or not. Can't wait for more of these articles from Lourdes and Sea Otter next week. Bring on the eye candy!

SPOKEn (Apr 9, 2015 at 16:03)

Mondraker make some really nice Radon's.......
Seriously, is their just 1 engineer going around to all bike stores and selling the same bike design?
Yeti? Cannondale? anyone else? Want to design something inspiring or different?

jaame (Apr 9, 2015 at 21:40)

I believe Astro Engineering make some really nice Mondrakers

Torque-HUN (Apr 9, 2015 at 20:31)

Is it me, and maybe I am biased (I own a Demo 8 2013), but the design tends to look like a Demo 8?
Shouldn't the industry leave the 3 way chainstay design? (Is it called that?)
Nonetheless, it looks sick!

RatHunter83 (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:39)

"The Wilsons new carbon seatstays."
That and the cranks are the only thing carbon in that pic.

m07mmukh (Apr 9, 2015 at 12:48)

"with separate upper and lower elements to it." think the top of the swingarm is carbon dude, the bottoms ali hence the weld on the bottom peice.

RatHunter83 (Apr 9, 2015 at 13:14)

No shit Sherlock. I was pointing out the seatstays and cranks are carbon. Not the whole swingarm as the heading implies.

hamncheez (Apr 9, 2015 at 14:21)

Can you imagine being Devinci and spending all that money to make molds for their carbon wilson, only to have the 650b craze hit and throw it all away? They spent so much time dialing the old Wilson, and in my opinion it was one of the most beautiful dh bikes in recent memory. This one I'm not so sure

jaame (Apr 9, 2015 at 21:42)

The swingarm is entirely carbon. The chainstay is not the swingarm on this design. Hasn't Devinci started shipping the new Wikson now? Does it have the braced swingarm?

medievalbiking (Apr 9, 2015 at 23:47)

@hamncheez I have the 2014 carbon wilson 26'. Planning to run the frame forever and just replace components because it's so dialed and good looking.... I have a 27.5" AM bike and don't even notice the difference....