Luftkappe Upgrade Kit for Pike and Lyrik - Press Release

Nov 28, 2016
by Vorsprung Suspension  
Whistler BC's Vorsprung Suspension launches its newest product, the Luftkappe. Wait... isn't that the German air force? Close, but no, that's the Luftwaffe.

Luftkappe

However, it is an air-force product of sorts - taking what was learned from the development and customer feedback of the Corset air sleeves, the Luftkappe is a new air piston assembly for Rockshox's current generation Pike and Lyrik Solo Air forks. User installable and simple to set up, the MSRP $85CAD ($64USD approx) Luftkappe kit turns already very good forks into outstanding forks.


Features:

- Coil-like feel
- Larger negative air chamber
- Lower initial spring rate
- Increased sensitivity
- Improved mid stroke support & control
- Superior bump compliance and traction
- Reduced hand fatigue
- Reduces required compression damping
- Retains Bottomless Token compatibility
- Pneumatic topout instead of mechanical - no knocking
- Optional 10mm shaft clamps available for self-install


Luftkappe

The Luftkappe is available directly from Vorsprung Suspension's web store, or can be installed at Vorsprung's Whistler workshop. 10mm CNC shaft clamps are an additional option for those who'd like to install the kit themselves but are missing that one specialist tool from their toolbox.

For those wishing to have the kit professionally installed in their fork by Vorsprung, there is also the option for the Vorsprung-exclusive V-spec Tune:
- Factory service of your Pike or Lyrik
- Component cleaned in Bio-circle
- Luftkappe upgrade piston installation
- SKF low-friction wiper seals
- V-spec personalised custom compression revalve
- V-spec personalised custom rebound revalve
- Damper bleed with WPL ShockBoost bio-oil

V-Spec Tune: $285 CAD ($210 USD approx)
Factory service & Luftkappe only: $235 CAD ($175 USD approx)
Luftkappe kit only: $85 CAD ($64USD approx)
10mm shaft clamps: $28 CAD ($21USD approx)

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247 Comments

  • 56 3
 Why can't we have a titanium, light coil spring aftermarket upgrade for these forks for the real coil-like feel?
  • 5 0
 same for boxxer please. btw are the lowers boxxer/lyrik compatible as before?
  • 13 1
 Yeah I love how all these products tout 'coil like feel'. How about manufacturing some coil forks then? I realise it's more of a faff setting them up initially (as you need to change the spring). But why not include a soft, medium and firm when you buy the fork?
I'm not saying we have to go back to 3kg forks, but a Pike or Mattoc coil option would almost kill my upgradeitis overnight.
  • 8 2
 maybe because people don't want to pay like 200$ a spring? pretty sure it was something stupid like that for marz forks. Not to mention the adjustability of air.
  • 9 1
 It already exists, a small brand called www.crconception.com does it (and a lot of other amazing stuff) ! Wink
  • 80 0
 Honest answer as to why we don't make that sort of kit is that I don't think enough people would buy them - what you're asking for is harder than it sounds. Titanium springs have than their share of issues, particularly in forks. They're prone to breakage (seen this regularly in both Fox and Marzocchi Ti fork springs), they're crazy expensive, you have no adjustability of the spring progressivity, and every different travel configuration requires something different in multiple different rates. Then you need to make sure that aftermarket kits aren't noisy inside the stanchion (2nd most common complaint we get in the summer when the bike park is open, right after "braking bumps hurt my hands") or damaging the sealing surface inside someone's very expensive stanchions in case they ever do want to swap back to air. And on top of that, you'd be looking at somewhere between $300-400 CAD for the kit.

But then again, if 200 people email us saying they'd happily pay that much for such a kit, we'll develop one! Smile
  • 1 2
 @purplegorillaz:

Crconception Spring kit is not a titanium one ...
  • 16 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: How about $27 and a nice watch?
  • 7 0
 Thanks @VorsprungSuspension for weighing in (no pun) (maybe a little) (purely coincidental though).

I rode Marz ti spring forks for years with out breaking any. With the new "light" steel alloys (like the spring on my new CK Inline C), maybe there is a cost effective steel alternative now?

It seems like the industry has been chasing the "coil-like" dragon since around the time the VAN36 disappeared (Yes. I am that old). And speaking of the potential cost prohibitiveness of a ti coil aftermarket option. What is the cost of the many different FOX/RS air fork gen's have we gone through since the demise of the coil spring, and we are still getting served with "upgrades" like this new solution from you guys. And no offense, I'll be buying one from you if a coil option doesn't materialize soon.
  • 7 1
 @jewpowered: Amen to that! Marz 350 NCR Ti. It blows away my new 2017 Fox 36.
  • 10 1
 @jimeg: For sure, not every single Ti spring breaks. But as a manufacturer, we would not want to be having to warranty what is an unreasonably high percentage of them that do seem to break.

All the air thing comes down to is weight. People see that a fork is "heavy" (relatively speaking), so they complain about it on the internet then don't buy it. With a steel spring, plunger and stanchions that don't have to be honed & polished inside, coil setups are cheaper to manufacture overall than air. We aren't making whole forks though, that's well beyond our present capacity, so we work with what we have and make it as good as we can.

Steel coil conversions are a lot more realistic (price wise) than Ti. The newer light steel springs sit somewhere in the middle, though nobody has proven that concept in fork springs yet (which are a bit different in their loading conditions and geometry than shock springs). We may consider something along those lines, but if people don't want the weight penalty then they won't be worth us making.
  • 6 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: yes, my Fox 40's had a rubber sleeve on the Ti spring; the spring needed to be regularly removed, the sleeve re-postioned (it would migrate) and re-greased otherwise a clanking noise on hard compressions. great fork, but annoying maintenance routine!
  • 4 0
 As far as I know, TF Tuned already do coil conversions?
  • 2 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: Start a Kickstarter project for that Wink
  • 1 0
 Can someone help school me? If you need 3-4 tokens to keep from bottoming out all the time, will a larger negative chamber sill be an improvement?
  • 3 0
 @me2menow: Yep, it'll be even better - more initial suppleness and increased ending stroke support due to the higher pressure you'll run.
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: I keep hearing that the new light steel springs sacrifice a lot in durability, averaging 5000 cycles/1yr riding according to some sources. Is there any truth to this?
  • 2 0
 @Chillius: no information on that sorry. 5000 cycles is more like 2 runs though.
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: Oops, I meant to write 500,000 cycles. Anyway, this is what Push are saying, I found it interesting myself (more so that I run one of them "new" lightweight springs), would love to hear your opinion on this:
"Spring fatigue life is a big issue. We obviously worked very closely with HyperCo to introduce the lightest possible coil spring without having a fatigue limit. For us that was a big deal, so while we could have made the spring lighter, it would've come at a performance penalty which wasn't acceptable to us. So while there are competitor products that are lighter ours will outlast.

500,000 cycles is roughly 8-10 months of riding for most trail riders. With that being said, the spring doesn't fail, it just looses elasticity and rate. This is also not something that happens after 500,000 cycles, but rather deterioration happens quickly and then tapers."
forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/ext-storia-lok-avy-chubie-push-11-6-a-1018680.html#post12763135
  • 1 0
 @jimeg: do you guys ship to APO (military) addresses​?
Thanks,
Don
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: Do you guys ship to APO (military) addresses?
Thanks,
Don
  • 17 1
 Maybe a stupid question. I know that Lyrik has thicker stanchions than Pike (you need smaller gray bottomless tokens). How it is possible you can fit both Pike and Lyrik? There must be some difference. Maybe I am missing something...thx Smile
  • 4 0
 I was wondering the same thing
  • 9 0
 @Husker2112: im guessing you they are different products. Order pike or lyrik version.
  • 1 0
 @inverted180: oh ok. That makes sense
  • 1 0
 The website seems to indicate that one model fits both?
  • 4 0
 @inverted180: But there is only one option available...I am more careful now since almost bought Ramp Control Cartridge (MRP) for Pike with wrong thread pitch...why is everything now so standardized and complicated at the same time ? Smile
  • 5 0
 Help us Steve!....star wipe Big Grin
  • 2 1
 Tapered walls maybe? Air shafts are the same (same shaft is etched for Lyrik lengths and Pike lengths). But tokens for Lyrik are narrower (or were, originally).

I can't think of any other possibility.
  • 4 14
flag cheeverbrent (Nov 28, 2016 at 8:00) (Below Threshold)
 Even though the stanctions are thicker they probably have the same inside diameter. Just a guess though.
  • 7 0
 Based on RS parts list as of 2016 there are Pike/Lyrik/Yari airshafts that work on all 3 and they all use the same tokens.
  • 4 2
 @Kaspy: I thought the red tokens are for solo air forks and the grey tokens are for dual postion forks. The red tokens should fit Lyrik, Yari and Pike 'solo air' forks.

The ramp control comes in 2 sizes for Boost and standard non Boost.
  • 22 0
 Maybe rockshox had us duped this whole time... the Pike and Lyrik are exactly the same?!
  • 9 1
 @theminsta:

Internally yes. They never claimed anything different.
  • 6 0
 hmm I thought the stantion exterior diameter was the same 35mm but the lyrik has thicker walls making the internal diameter smaller?
  • 3 0
 @silverfish1974: my solo air Yari came with the grey tokens
  • 2 0
 @reachcontrol: I was thinking about tapered walls as the only explanation but it must be really expensive to make...I am chemical engineer, so I am probably wrong Smile It must be something like this since (as you said) shafts are same for Pike/Lyrik/Yari Smile Thanks
  • 2 20
flag chillrider199 (Nov 28, 2016 at 8:52) (Below Threshold)
 @theminsta: They are the same. Lyrik is made for just harder terrain. Its got a 20mm axel vs a 15.
  • 24 0
 @kaspy The stanchions are tapered near the crown. The Pike and Lyrik air spring shafts are cross compatible. Have not checked Ramp Control compatibility yet.

Will be back to answering questions in a few hours, currently trying to clear out an email deluge.
  • 5 0
 @chillrider199: lyrik has a 15mm axle
  • 3 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: Another mystery solved. Thank you all Smile
  • 5 0
 No, they both have 35mm stations. Like the boxxer. Wink
  • 2 1
 @cheeverbrent: is correct
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: Will there be a version compatible with the Yari? I would love to be able to pop this in and the Charger dampener into the other leg over the winter.
  • 1 0
 @silverfish1974: Huh. my 2016 Pike Solo came with grey tokens.
  • 1 2
 My guess is the ID (inner diameter) is the same on both forks. The Lyrik OD (Outer Diameter) might have a slightly larger OD than the Pike. This is my guess, but it makes sense because the bigger OD on the lyric would mean that the actual thickness of the wall is thicker and; therefore, more rigid.


Edit:: Nevermind, someone said they are the exact same size. That would also explain it.
  • 3 0
 Outer diameter of stanchions are same. Inner diameter of stanchions are the same where the air piston operates. Lyrik's inner diameter tapers to a smaller inner diameter past the operating length of the air pistons.
  • 2 0
 @Dynex: Yes, this works with the Yari as well - their Solo Air shafts are interchangeable with the Pike and Lyrik.
  • 1 0
 @Dynex: Yeah I got that wrong. They just changed the colour of the tokens that's all...(but the dual postion tokens are a different part..)
  • 1 0
 @Kaspy: You bought a RCC? What do you think of it? I'm looking for better small bump compliance in my Pike. I have an Evil Following with a 120mm Pike with 4 or 5 tokens (can't remember... it's a lot), so my small bump compliance is reduced (and I have some hand issues, so look for any small benefits in this department that I can get).
  • 1 0
 @Dynex:
Charger? Meeeh, there is better upgrade possibility for the fork ;-)
  • 1 0
 @bansaiman: But dish washing can only pay for so many of those upgrades while paying tuition.
  • 3 0
 @Kaspy: Mrp upgrade actually is worth it
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension:

Bit again,van you please show how strong the difference between use of several tokkens and the luftkappe is,especcially at the beginning and midstroke?
  • 3 1
 @bansaiman: Here's some numbers for you in a 160mm Pike.
Stock Pike: 70psi, 2 tokens. Initial spring rate 88lbs/in, dropping to 25lbs/in (lowest point) by about 1/3 stroke.
Luftkappe: 77psi, 0 tokens. Initial spring rate 59lbs/in, dropping to 30lbs/in (lowest point, around 1/3 stroke)
(all forces/rates rounded to the nearest integer)

Both bottom out at the same force (270lbs). The stock fork has a ~50% higher initial spring rate, while the Luftkappe has a ~20% higher spring rate in the middle of the stroke in spite of the softer initial travel. You can make either one more progressive, I chose this setup because I feel it fairly illustrates the differences given that bottoming force is the same.
  • 15 1
 I really expected some nice graphs. Could you provide graphs of std. solo air vs. Luftkappe vs. coil? Until I haven't seen that, I doubt that it matches the performance of a proper dual positive air chamber system, which can create almost perfect linearity until ramp up.
Anyway, nice work Vorsprung, I really enjoy your tech Tuesdays and your approach to give knowledge and understanding to the customer, big thumbs up.
  • 2 0
 Yeah, some actual information about how it works would be helpful.
  • 8 0
 @ArturoBandini thanks for the kind words. Dual positive air chambers have plenty of potential benefits, but all practical systems that currently exist are unable to address the initial stiffness created by small negative chambers on their own - however with a dual-positive system in combination with a sufficiently large negative chamber, you can get something really quite close to a coil's level of linearity. Small deviations in spring rate aren't a big deal, considering some air springs have variations in spring rate of over 1000% and are still entirely rideable. That percentage is factual and not an exaggeration - the point being that at some point, close enough is indeed good enough.

FYI we have actually experimented with dual-positive air chamber systems in the Pike, there's one on my desk right now. The biggest single problem with them is the immense overlap between the effects of the pressure in each of the two chambers and the difficulty that poses to setup - the more variables, the exponentially more difficult it becomes to get it right. In that sense, it's better to have a system with 90% of the potential but that you can relatively easily set up to its maximum potential performance, than a system with a theoretically superior potential that the majority of people can only reach 60% of. This is the whole reason RS ditched Dual Air for Solo Air, even though Dual Air forks were able to be set up to feel way better than their Solo Air counterparts. And compared to dual positive systems, Dual Air was very straightforward to set up. If a twin-positive chamber system could be sufficiently foolproof for setup (DRCV was actually not too bad in that regard), then it might be more practical, but until we can work out a system that is simple, foolproof, of unquestionably superior performance for the vast majority of riders' setup capabilities, affordable and reliable, twin-positive chamber systems aren't something we're looking to produce. Of course, that may change if we do have such an idea Smile
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension:
In my quest for finding a simple solution to increase mid-stroke support in the Pike, I found this implementation of a double positive chamber in Germany:
www.fahrrad-fahrwerk.de/awk

I have no doubt of the theoretical benefits of such a system, but I really wonder about the amount of static frictions added by the additional piston and the consistency/robustness of operation in time (bad lubrication, seal wear, etc...).
What do you think about it ?
  • 1 0
 @gnralized: FWIW This has been a 5-6 year ongoing development. It is getting good reviews from users at mtb-news.de, albeit setup is not so easy as @VorsprungSuspension has rightly mentioned...
  • 3 0
 I've had the chance to ride a prototype dual-positive setup for a Pike from a small American company that's been in development for a couple of years now. Looking at the spring that @gnralized and @raschaa have posted I would say the two setups are very similar in design although packaged quite differently.

The system I have tried unquestionably works and well and gives you a massive range of tuning with just a shock pump but requires absolute precision when you're setting it up. Even 1-2psi difference can be critical and you must use the same digital shock pump every time if you want to be accurate. The good news is hopefully soon you will have 2 options if a dual positive setup is what you want!
  • 2 0
 @gnralized: Static friction isn't really a problem with a setup like that, because any static friction in the secondary chamber just leads to the main piston pushing a little further before the secondary piston starts moving. It doesn't add friction to the free motion of the suspension overall because it isn't rigidly coupled to either end of the fork. Those seals move less far and less fast than the main piston so they should see less wear in theory. Setup, servicing and expense are bigger concerns from our perspective.
  • 12 1
 Super intriguing. I'd love to see one of your Tuesday tune videos about this product!
  • 2 1
 T'es dur, Max ;-)
  • 2 1
 Haha Smile
  • 2 1
 Bugger...can't read French,please excuse my ignoranceFrown
  • 5 1
 For just a low price of close to $180 US vs $64 US and required shipment to France.
  • 4 2
 Got an English description
  • 2 1
 @mfoga: from mate.Smile
  • 2 1
 @poah: and their other stuff of which I'm interested in?
  • 5 2
 @mfoga:

You may have misunderstood the all thing. For $180 US you get the equivalent of the V-spec tune (with new pistons, custom shim stack, minus the skf seals) so the price is pretty much the same.

And the all point was just to show that there is nothing new here, others have done it years before Wink
  • 3 1
 140 euros....
  • 1 0
 @poah: "Lens Kit Novyparts: bring the maintenance and escalation close to a metal spring and cushioning smooth a very balanced hydraulics."
  • 2 1
 @gnralized:
Pas dur, juste factuel !
Max is just factual.
  • 7 13
flag Reelchef67 (Nov 28, 2016 at 12:43) (Below Threshold)
 2.5 times more expensive.VS something engineered and tested in whistler, the mtb bike park mecca. Suck it Novy..
  • 4 0
 @ed91:
Max is always factual, but it ain't going to help frenchman reputation in Canada ;-)
Just kiddin...Oh... wait !
  • 7 1
 @Reelchef67:

1. Novyparts optimisation service (240 CAD) include work on air piston AND hydraulic optimisation. In that it is comparable to Vorsprung V-spec tune which is 285 CAD. Of course, I'm reluctant too to send my stuff away but it wouldn't mean the guy didn't work well.
2. Nothing against Vorpsprung, but not being aware of something didn't mean that thing is BS. Max from Novyparts design and produce its own pistons, shim stack, tunes for years and he built a strong reputation amongst the better riders in France, something like Push Industries in the US.
3. " something engineered and tested in whistler, the mtb bike park mecca"
Well, Novyparts stuff is just tested and engineered in WC DH, EWS, french Alps etc, for years...
I'm not not kiddin, check the guy references.

Again, nothing against Vorsprung, I own a Corset for a RP23 and I'm very pleased with it...
  • 4 1
 There's a Scottish version. Just pictures Smile
  • 23 0
 @novyparts does some cool stuff (particularly the Reverb lever, which is WAY nicer than the stock one), we are fans of Max's work and fully acknowledge that we weren't the first to market with modifications of the air piston like that. We did actually benchmark against the Novy piston as one came into the workshop when we were testing the original Luftkappe protos. The Luftkappe has a little more negative volume than the Novy piston, giving it a marginally more linear curve in the early stroke, but at that point we're talking mathematical differences moreso than big practical differences.
  • 7 0
 I will reserve all comments until I see some numbers. I'm all about having more tuning options when it comes to my suspension but at the same time I don't want to pay for something that's only going to make a very small difference. I'm not saying this isn't going to be a great product I just do want to drink the coolaid until I see the ingredients.
  • 1 0
 agreed on charts, but my guesstimate is this adds about 70% more negative spring volume. I'd expect it to be a significant difference.
  • 7 0
 @groghunter: na, I'd guess like 69% more.
  • 5 1
 @groghunter: Guesstimates are reserved for things like measuring how much tire sealant you need... haha . What I was trying to say is that I need to see test results and if it's an upgrade worth the cost.


I have been running a pike for 4 years now and through a shit ton of tinkering which included running RS revelation air spacers as well as Pike ones to give me a in the middle ramp up compared to what just pike spacers did I really havent thought there was a need for a lot of what this little product is claiming to do.

In saying that, if I can see a real world shoot out between stock and this product and it shows or it is reported by a non-biased user that there is a significant difference than I will be more likely to give it a try.
  • 3 0
 @skelldify: 6 min abs!!? You can get a good work out in 6 min! 7 min ftw
  • 4 0
 @2bigwheels: (as posted above) this is for a 160mm Pike.
Stock Pike: 70psi, 2 tokens. Initial spring rate 88lbs/in, dropping to 25lbs/in (lowest point) by about 1/3 stroke.
Luftkappe: 77psi, 0 tokens. Initial spring rate 59lbs/in, dropping to 30lbs/in (lowest point, also around 1/3 stroke)
(all forces/rates rounded to the nearest integer)

Both bottom out at the same force (270lbs). The stock fork has a ~50% higher initial spring rate, while the Luftkappe has a ~20% higher spring rate in the middle of the stroke in spite of the substantially softer initial travel. You can make either one more progressive, I chose this setup because I feel it fairly illustrates the differences given that bottoming force is the same.
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension:

Numbers are in.... Stock vs upgrade is the only thing to do next Smile

Call me a skeptic and thats even after your numbers... I just like to see or hear from others how it feels compared to just the numbers. I am not trying to say this little upgrade is not going to be a benefit, I just like something a little bit more than numbers.

I do appreciate you giving me the comparisons in numbers though! thank you!
  • 4 0
 @2bigwheels: Totally fair. I think it's a very healthy skepticism given the amount of marketing BS out there - if we were making parts where the difference wasn't perceptible/measurable (as well as subjectively substantial - in our opinion) we would want to be called out on that since it forces us to make better products. I see you're in Surrey - come by the workshop if you're ever up in Whistler and we can demonstrate the difference to you on the spot.
  • 9 3
 It's kind of funny people trying to soup up their forks to be as good as a Mrp Stage. The Stage out of the box is superior or equal to the RS options as well as far more reliable than Fox. You can set it up to 170mm and have the same axle to crown as a Pike so it's like bonus travel. Longest service interval and Amazing customer service right in Colorado. If you ask a majority of bike shop owners, most Pikes have come with little to no oil and have to have a pre use service out of the box. The Stages are each bench tested and signed off one by one to be good to go. The pricing is very fair as well. The only "downside" could be that shops might not feel comfortable servicing them?
  • 9 1
 So what you are trying to say is. You are a mrp fan boy?
  • 3 0
 No because I still remember the mrp g2 chainguide
  • 6 0
 Looks taller than regular air piston, is it compatible with the MRP ramp control cartridge i already have fitted? Or would it be stupid to use both anyway? I MUST KNOW THESE THINGS! Any answers much appreciated.
  • 2 0
 I am almost sure you can use both upgrades Smile MRP is a more advanced version of bottomless tokens - so you can control end of the ramp on the fly (nothing new for you) and this new "Steve thingy" improves beginning of the ramp and sensitivity. It looks like a great way how to increase small bump compliance. What do you thing about MRP upgrade?
  • 4 0
 @Kaspy: Ramp control cartridge is great for on trail experimenting. But a word of warning if you are considering one, it only kicks in on hard and fast hits, you dont get the mid stroke support during slow riding that a lot of people use tokens for. During steep, slow, technical riding such as tight steppy type sections the fork will dive as it is not moving fast enough to activate the cartridge. Bloody brilliant for everything else though.
  • 2 0
 @stumpymidget: Thank you for all info. To be honest, I love slow technical sections, so it looks that for my riding are standard tokens much better option. Good to know! Smile
  • 4 0
 @Kaspy: Yes it sounds like you should save your money for something else. The MRP cartridge is not cheap, and it would be annoying to spend the money and then realise it does not give you what you want.
  • 3 0
 @Kaspy: Mrp upgrade is a totally different feeling then tokens, plus being able to change things up with a switch definitely has its benefits.
  • 1 0
 @Charlottege8: I believe it is a great product. My concern is that you need to be really fast and "aggressive" rider to truly benefit from MRP upgrade. Maybe some day, who knows Smile
  • 1 0
 Per discussions with MRP and Vorsprung, it is compatible with MRP RCC in a Lyrik 160. Not a 170 (clearance is non-existent or too small to be safe).

MRP RCC takes up exactly 4 tokens worth of volume, and the Vorsprung piston is 20mm taller than OEM.
  • 1 0
 @sinister28: Thanks for the info, it is a shame i cannot use both on my Pike. I just pulled my MRP cartridge and measured everything up, the standard air piston does get very close to the bottom of the cartridge. This is on a 160mm Pike with 27.5 wheel, probably the most common variant. Shame.
  • 2 0
 We have also ascertained that in the Pike 160 (27.5") the Ramp Control cartridge will interfere with the Luftkappe, though it will clear at 150mm/27.5". Have not tested other configurations yet other than what @sinister28 noted.
  • 7 0
 How do you install this thing and how does it actually achieve the features listed compared to the the normal Pike airshaft topcap?
  • 2 0
 No need for that information, just buy it and have your shop install it!!
  • 1 0
 Looks like it's the same as doing an air sleeve replacement. I just did one on my Pike to change the fork height. There's a couple good videos that show how to do this.
  • 2 0
 @matadorCE installation instructions & video will be online within 24hrs.
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: Cool, thanks! Do you guys have some in stock now?
  • 1 0
 @matadorCE: Yes, they're currently in stock. And installation instructions are now up (linked to in the product page on the web store). We're frantically shipping them out as orders come in but still quite a way behind so it might be a day or two from when you order until it ships.
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: I placed my order and looking forward to checking it out. You guys are doing great stuff, keep it up!
  • 5 1
 I'm getting one for Christmas! I was going to upgrade to a lyrik on my trail bike but this option is more affordable to get the great initial plush stroke...PS: I sometime don't understand why Rock Shox and Fox eng. don't think if this in the first place.
  • 1 0
 They probably do but it would end up too costly
  • 3 0
 @toad321:
They actually could design their aispring with a larger neg chamber from the beginning.that is what bos have in their deville. If you have the right relation between neg and pos chamber you will get a really pretty linear air spring. It is that simple. Cannot understand why only a few companies get that right. But still i like the awk IRT System Most, because you can trim the springrate and characteristings to your likings. Use it in my mattoc and its great. Problem is the awk for the lyrik costs 190 instead of 120 euros for the pike. Thus I am considering the Luftkappe, too.my 180mm lyrik is supposed for pure shuttle runs on hard terrain anyway.
  • 2 2
 " I sometime don't understand why Rock Shox and Fox eng. don't think if this in the first place."

I suspect they do and so I retain a healthy skepticism for the Emperor's new clothes. As far as I'm concerned the Pike is amazing out of the box. How many riders will really notice the difference, or is the aftermarket just cashing in on upgradeitis?
  • 2 0
 @sideshowb:

Errrm, it is diving really enough to Motive.especcially in steep technisch stuff.thus you have to pump it to un der 20 sag,comoensate with too much lsc or use tokens, what Not really ramps the early midstroke.
Yes,there is great potential to improve the pike s and others airspring.
You should try IRT and AWK too really experirece and judge that ;-) it will Open your eyes.
cheers
  • 2 0
 @bansaiman: I'm not sure I'm good enough to notice. Maybe some people are though! Some of the top enduro racers must be running pikes - what springs are they using in them?
  • 2 0
 @sideshowb: You can feel the difference just pushing on it. It isn't something you need to be a podium contender at the EWS to be able to discern the difference. Asking why Fox or RS don't think of things in the first place is like asking why they didn't build the 2017 36 RC2 in 2002 - development is an iterative and ongoing process, with lots and lots of relatively small changes made that add up to big differences over time.

I'll put this out there too: anyone who buys one of these and thinks it makes no tangible difference or improvement, you can send it back for a full refund. We stand behind our product and our claims. Is it going to be so massively different that you go from being a novice to being Jared Graves just by installing it? Clearly not. Does it make a noticeable, tangible and measurable improvement? Absolutely.
  • 2 0
 @sideshowb:

Some people use imofficial coil kits in dh forks and others just use ridicously high pressure for their weight.

When you just Do stoppies or technical stuff you easily notice the diving. Awk and stuff is already apparent when pushing in the fork as vorsprung said.
  • 3 0
 @VorsprungSuspension why would you want a lineer feeling fork like a coil one, i can't get enough bottomless tokens in my fork currently too get the small bump sensitivity i want but the [progressiveness for larger jumps that i would hit on the same trail that has a super techy rock garden. Genuine question though, keen too find out more Smile
  • 5 0
 When we talk about linearity like that, we are referring to the beginning of the stroke rather than the end. All air forks are somewhat falling-rate at the very start of the stroke - the spring rate starts off very high and quickly drops down to a more consistent level through the middle of the stroke, then begins to increase towards the end of the stroke. That is the main reason coil sprung stuff typically feels nicer than air sprung. In this case, it's actually MORE progressive at the end of the stroke for any given token configuration due to the smaller positive chamber and the fact that you'll run more pressure than before.
  • 2 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: Oh right, sounds good, now I just have too get an rs fork!

Thanks for the reply, really appreciate it Smile
  • 2 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: Have you considered selling Air Shafts with the Luftkappe installed? I personally need to get a 160mm/27.5" air shaft and would love to have this at the same time without having to buy a tool I will never use more than once.
  • 2 0
 That may be possible. Shoot us an email and we'll see what we can come up with.
  • 2 0
 Neg prop me all you bitches want!! After purchasing my corset and taking the advice of the "Setup" vids. I've managed to get my bike pretty dialed to my liking! Im a @VorsprungSuspension fan boy. Through and through. Now I just need to figure out if it's worth sending my 2015 36 RC2 all the way to Canadia and back.
  • 2 0
 Just installed the kit. Very nice. I was running 2 tokens and 90psi. With the kit I'm running no tokens but have to run 120psi to get same 20% sag. I'm also noticing that the fork sometimes gets stuck at 10% sag when I get off the bike. Push down on the fork brace extends it. I was pretty careful during the install. I'm wondering if this is known and not really an issue or if I botched the install.

Thanks
Tim
  • 1 0
 I have exactly the same issue.
Is this normal @VorsprungSuspension ?
  • 1 0
 Maybe I'm being stupid but I can't find the installation instructions on your website? I think there may be a broken link?

Also, does this extend out of the top of the pike further or is it as similarly flush as the original?
  • 5 0
 Currently creating the service instructions and installation video. Will be up within 24 hrs. It does protrude further from the air shaft than the stock Solo Air piston (these are not DPA compatible, for those wondering ).
  • 3 1
 Is this just providing a larger negative spring (larger negative chamber), meaning it does have better small bump compliance but ramps up quicker (smaller positive chamber)? If so, that's a lot of marketing blabla.
  • 2 1
 It appears to do exactly that. Bigger negative spring, takes some volume out of the positive side to do it.
  • 2 1
 No marketing bla bla. The correct relation of pos and neg chamber is what makes a solid airspring.then you Do not need to compensate with overdamping
  • 1 1
 @bansaiman: also, since this protrudes into the the positive chamber, it's going to be like already running (guessing) about 1.5 tokens. So yes, ramp(which people like) & easier breakaway in the first part of the travel(which people also like.) I'm interested, but not 100% on it. I want to see charts & numbers.
  • 2 1
 @bansaiman: Makes sense. Just playing devil's advocate here...

If it was as simple as just changing volumes on the pos/neg air chambers to get the fork feeling that much better, isn't that something Rockshox would have figured out? What would have stopped them from either doing this prior to release or on later fork revisions?
  • 9 1
 @MikerJ: legitimate question. There are a few factors at play in that, and cost is a big part of it. With the system of self-equalising ports used in the RS Solo Air forks, they use a very basic, more or less flat plastic piston. It equalises in a dimple on the inside of the stanchion. Manufacturing such a dimple in a relatively small diameter bore isn't that easy when you have to do it without deforming the OD of the stanchion whatsoever or in any way scratching or distorting the sealing surface on the inside, so then you have to look at how you are going to get tools (either cutting or forming) in there. Once they're in there, how accurately can you make the dimple? Long story short, the further it is in there (giving you more negative chamber volume due to piston distance from the sealhead), the harder it gets to consistently make that dimple, so you're somewhat limited with placement of that critical feature. You're also limited in terms of chamber volume in total because the length of the stanchion can't be changed very much for any given wheel size/travel combination (unless you're ok with crowns hitting downtubes or massive axle to crown distances, or extra weight in the form of longer lowers). The seal head takes up a certain amount of room and that's already kept to a relative minimum. So then your compression ratio range is somewhat predefined. That ratio happens to work fairly well and in my opinion that's the reason air forks have always been relatively similar to what they currently are. But while something working fairly well is fine for mass production, we are catering to those who want the most out of their suspension, which isn't necessarily every rider out there, but we spend a lot of time and attention on these little things that are relatively minor details to someone who has to design the whole fork.

If you go to far with this, you also begin to run into progressivity issues. We made the first Luftkappe proto with more than twice the additional negative chamber volume that the production item has. It was amazingly sensitive and great when plowing through medium size chunder at high speed, but for all practical purposes it turned a 160mm fork into a 140mm fork because the ramp up was too severe even with no tokens in there. I managed to bottom the one on my personal bike once ever, and that was the kind of compression that just about breaks wrists. So we had to cut that back somewhat over the development iterations - that was what we found to be the practical limit.
  • 2 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: Interesting about how equalization points have been chosen in SA forks.

Is there any relation to where the RS dual-position forks have the ports as these don't have the same manufacturing constraints? Also wouldn´t a RS DP air fork make for a good base for mods making it fixed travel but changing port location?
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: make sense. Thanks. Will hav a closer look-see
  • 5 4
 @VorsprungSuspension - If I understand right, I can install that on any air spring shaft of a modern Lyrik regardless of it's length? I use 160mm shaft for local trails and 180 shaft for bikepark. If yes then I am very veeery interested since my Lyrik is relatively unimpressive as for a 2016 fork...
  • 2 0
 I was very disappointed by mine, too, in comparison of a 2016 36 RC2...
There are several solutions to increase mid-stroke support for pike and lyric
issuu.com/schaefermueller/docs/chickadeehillfolder_a5quer_d1
but talking with suspension specialists (www.novyparts.com/optimisation-novyparts-suspensions-vtt/rock-shox-fourches/optimisation-specifique-pike-et-boxxer.html , www.fast-suspension.com/charger-damper-kit), modification of spring curve/rate implies charger damper shim stack recalibration, so in the end the fork will cost more than a new 36.
So wiill sold my lyric in spring to buy another used 36 RC2...
  • 4 2
 @gnralized: I changed to 2016 Lyrik from 2011 Fox 36 Van RC2... took me 2 rides to dial in the 36.WIth Lyrik it took me at least 20 rides to find a very fine balance between brake support/pop and suppleness/grip. 2-3PSI and one click of LSC. That's how close it must be so it feels close to the 5 year old 36. In EU Lyriks are much cheaper than 36. Fox pricing in Europe is sick - even Öhlins RXF36 is 100$ cheaper and that says a lot. I heard looots of good stuff about DVO DIamond. But availability of spare parts keeps me away from it. For that particular reason I don't even consider BOS
  • 4 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I know I will be downvoted for that, but RS forks I owned (Pike and Lyrik) looks like toys for me in comparison to the new 36.
One good example is the performance degradation as a function of time spent on bike.
Pike and Lyrik feels so smooth out of the box in comparison to 36, but after 10 hours on, static frictions was on par and after 20 hours, I was good for doing basic maintenance on RS (stanchions down, lubrication oil change and slick honey application following RS manual). After 100+ hours on the 36, in dusty, sandy then muddy and wet conditions, static frictions are still the same than after the break-in period (just did basic after ride maintenance like wiper cleaning).
No clunk noise during rebound phase on the 36, noises on both RS. Frontal and lateral rigidity ? Pike is a noodle, Lyric just a little better.
LS compression well decoupled from high speed on 36, I mean I can run low psi and back it with LSC to avoid diving without sacrifying small bump compliance. Once you reached 10 click LSC on pike and lyric, they started to feel harsh, etc, etc...
I can go on for hours but not very constructive, guess you get it...
  • 4 4
 @gnralized: I see where you coming from but I honestly think you zoomed-in a bit too much and sht got out of perspective. While I agree that 36 may be a better fork, calling Pike and Lyrik toys is quite far off the track. Rockshox Sektor or Suntour Auron are plastic toys. Performance wise if 36 gets 10 out of 10 Lyrik sits comfortably on 8. But Lyrik can be easily converted to 180mm of travel changing my heavy, long travel trail bike into a mini DH machine. Fox 36 comes either as 160 or 170. Make no mistake I'd love the 36 but price in Europe is just fkng stupid. If you can get Lyrik and Pike in price of on 36 then even with my Scandinavian salary, I would not buy that 36 even if was even better than you describe Wink
  • 3 2
 @WAKIdesigns:
I agree, I made the same calculations as you. Bought a 36 full price in Canada 2 years ago before I had childs but cannot afford one now with US$ vs CAD parity + importator margin , so went the RS way...
But having both fork on two bikes is a bad thing since I cannot stop comparing an I have to readapt each time I swap bikes... And the readaptation is always on the same direction, like downgrading my confidence in my front end with the RS.
But you're right, maybe I went too mental on this one...
  • 4 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Sure, when they work RS products are pretty decent. I was quite happy with my first Yari until it started creaking like hell. Got a new one under warranty and it has started clunking internally. The first few rides I was sort of happy with my Monarch..until it started leaking oil, even after changing all the seals. The damping starts to feel lethargic as well lately so it's probably another complete write off after only half a year with maybe 5 muddy rides.

Friend has blown up his second Charger damper this year, after having a Vivid start leaking oil through the rebound knob and having to take apart his Boxxers every month or so because they start making noise.

And why on earth would we need a 15mm axle on a 180mm fork? Aren't they admitting the lack of stiffness themselves by making those stupid "torque caps"? Who asked for "metric" sized dampers?

If they didn't come as standard on my Capra I wouldn't touch RS stuff with a barge pole TBH..
  • 2 1
 @WAKIdesigns: you can adjust any 170 float 36 to 180mm. It is like that by design. You may also directly buy 180mm version. 600EUR: www.bike-discount.de/de/kaufen/fox-36-float-27,5-k-rc2-fit-180-tapered-qr20-467408. 36 are sold in two travel versions only in reality. max 180mm and max 160mm. 180 can be adjusted to 130mm and 160 version to 100mm. 600 EUR for this monster of a fork is not much!
  • 5 1
 @WAKIdesigns yes you can install it on either length shaft.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns:
In german online stores I actually found many spare parts for dvo stuff and in contrast to the relatively high and stable price of the complete unit the spare parts come at a reasonable price
  • 1 0
 @goroncy: Faaaak... I'm out of cash this month... damn it!
  • 1 0
 Pretty neat but how is this different from just adding bottomless tokens? If i'm getting the configuration correct, it looks like the Lufkappe sits on the positive side of the air piston which is how they're able to advertise that it's 'adding more negative volume'?
  • 5 0
 The air piston dome is hollow and has holes underneath for air to "communicate" with the negative air chamber.
  • 1 0
 Jeez, thought I was nuts chasing parts from Poland to get my wife's Lyric U-Turn set up right with an X-soft coil assembly, ended up in the $550 range including fresh service @ Dirt Labs instead of starting from scratch with a Fox 36 for way more (1 1/8" straight steerer anyone? Beuller? $850 with a discount!). Time will tell but I doubt her 130lbs will be too hard on it and it feels amazing. I still beat the hell out of my old Boxxer coil with an Avalanche cartridge and I have nothing but praise, the thing about coils is they stay the same forever so once you get the tuning right you throw on some seals and fresh oil and go. I'll take consistency and durability over the weight savings, and finding your travel oring maxed out without ever feeling bottoming from launching double blacks means they are working right over and over. Simple.
  • 3 0
 Having a Vorsprunged Float X and fork I'd try anything you guys produced if it fit my bicylcle. It's easily worth the money. Keep up the goodness!
  • 5 0
 "Reduced hand fatigue."

Sorry, not gonna stop.
  • 2 0
 HAHAHA! Ahh, well played.
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension . I just placed an order and can't wait to try your product. My question is that I'm currently running Fast Suspension Kit. After installation and removing 1 token, should I leave my current settings alone? Will the product have much of an effect on the HSC and LSC?
  • 1 0
 Start with your current settings - you may find you're able to decrease the HSC and LSC a little though. On the stock damper we usually recommend going a little slower on the rebound, but with the Fast damper you may not find that necessary.
  • 5 1
 Very keen to see a review on this
  • 1 0
 Does the DPA stanction really not have the air equalising dimple inside? I converted my DPA to a solo (w/ a solo kit from fox) and nothing was noted of incompatibility or lack of equalisation.
  • 4 0
 Edit: You say fox at the end of the post, you can buy a fox kit to convert a Fox fork from Talas to Float but those are both unrelated to how the RS forks work.

The DPA stanchion does not have the equalising dimple inside, the DPA system equalizes via the shaft through the centre of the piston. If you have installed a solo air piston into a DPA fork you end up with something that will work but it does not have a negative air chamber and is not equalising, it just becomes a super-basic positive only air spring.
  • 1 0
 @farkinoath: thanks - I meant to say from RS - not Fox. I have both a Pike and Revelation that originally were DPA, that I converted to Solo Air with kits from RS. I had no idea the dimple was missing....I guess I am really not getting the correct ride then with my set up. I wonder....has a way to add volume spacers been devised for the DPA versions? Thats why I converted to solo in the first pace. Thanks for your reply
  • 1 0
 @rsmallfoot: those have been around for some time. There are some third party ones and also RS makes them. They aren't quite as simple as the solo air ones though.
  • 1 0
 Since the new lyrik already has a larger negative air chamber to improve suppleness at the top of the travel 0 does this mean that this upgrade will have a diminished improvement on a Lyrik as opposed to a Pike?
  • 1 0
 Correct, the difference on the Lyrik is proportionally less than it is on a Pike, but the end result is still a bit nicer because the starting point was better too.
  • 5 1
 Compatible with Yari?
  • 2 1
 I would like to think so, as the Yari is essentially a Lyrik with the only exception being that is doesn't have the Charger damper and instead has the Motion Control damper. The air spring and parts should all be the same unless I am mistaken.
  • 1 1
 So it should work with the original 26" lyrik with motion control damper as well correct?
  • 2 3
 We have specific piston for the original 26" Lyrik since 2008 yes.
  • 2 1
 @sam-hughes1 yes it is.
@FindDigRideRepeat the Luftkappe is not compatible with the original Lyrik. They use a totally different system.
  • 4 1
 Please make a version for Fox 36 (allthough may be not possible...)
  • 1 2
 the fox already has a bunch of aftermarket upgrades available (push notably)
  • 2 1
 @adrennan: Push does not fix the air spring on the 36, and I know there are other possibilties (coil) "available". But i like the versatility of air.
  • 2 1
 On this chart I doubled negative chamber. It looks like it works "coil-like"

images82.fotosik.pl/199/f566c8544a01d8f0.jpg
  • 4 1
 @nikolai: That's fairly close to correct actually.
  • 1 1
 It would be much much better with a video showing the before and after of a suspension sensitivity and more stuff with this luftkappe cuz of course i love those suspension working videos haha Big Grin .
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension- current charger Gen solo air lyrics, what years roughly??? Internals on a 2010-2012 lyric are about the same no??
  • 1 0
 Unfortunately not. Basically, if your Pike, Lyrik or Yari have black stanchions (and came like that from factory) it will work, otherwise not.
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: Damn. Still have to shell out for new forks.
  • 5 4
 If I want to upgrade both of my bikes forks, do I need two sets of the 10mm shaft clamps?
  • 7 8
 ^ failed humanity ????
  • 28 0
 If you want to work on both of them at the same time.
  • 9 1
 I dunno if you are joking Smile Al shaft vice clamps is a tool you use to service shafts without damage...you don't need two screwdrivers when you have two screws...
  • 7 1
 I'm new to the home mechanic and uneducated. I realize now this was a dumb question.
  • 2 1
 @Toryt7: Not meant to be mean at all, but this may be a new home mechanic task for later down the road. Unless of course, you have already done some suspension work. It may lead to a better experience.
  • 8 1
 @meesterover: I have done lower leg services and extended the air shaft on my Pike from 130 to 140. I appreciate the feedback and the reminder to ask myself a question before I ask the internet lol.
  • 4 1
 @Toryt7: just a little bit Smile But trust me, no one is born home mechanic...10 years ago I didn't know how to change brake pads and chain, 8 years ago how to change shifting cables, 6 years how to bleed brakes...now, I am learning (practically) how to true wheels and there are still so many things I don't know. But that's the best thing about it Smile
  • 3 1
 @Kaspy: I had a very similar experience to you. I remember buying a new chain for my bike and not knowing how to shorten it or tune my gears! 12 years later I can build wheels, service forks, shocks etc. I haven't ever bled a Charger damper but will do in a few months and I'm looking forward to it. The only thing I can't rebuild is Reverbs and I don't really want to. If I couldn't maintain my bike myself I probably would have given up mtb already due to the huge cost of getting work done and paying shop prices.
  • 2 1
 Where can I buy this in the U.K ?

I have a corset and it's an awesome upgrade.

Smile
  • 4 8
flag fabiodelplubo (Nov 28, 2016 at 10:44) (Below Threshold)
 Hi

In UK i don't know, but not so far you can have the same KIT AIR product in FRANCE + specific piston and custom setting
for the charger damper.

www.novyparts.com/optimisation-novyparts-suspensions-vtt/rock-shox-fourches/optimisation-specifique-pike-et-boxxer.html
  • 5 1
 You can order direct from our website, we ship worldwide.
  • 3 1
 Looks like the 2016 Fox 40 system
  • 1 0
 Fyi avalanche makes open bath kits and upgrades for Pike and Lyrik forks. www.avalanchedownhillracing.com
  • 1 0
 Is it necessary to change the O-Rings when installing the Luftkappe? My Fork is only 2 months old.
  • 1 0
 Not necessarily, we just give you the option.
  • 2 1
 Now this looks interesting.
  • 2 1
 Sweet! Great work, looking forward to further details!
  • 3 1
 Yeah, but how's it work?
  • 2 1
 So, for any Pikes of the Charger generation?
  • 4 1
 Any Solo Air variants of the Charger generation Pikes/Lyriks and the Yari yes.
  • 2 2
 Does it sit at the bottom of the stanchion or casting or what? Outside? Inside?
  • 3 1
 replaces the seal head for the air piston(so inside.) the extended negative chamber protrudes into the positive chamber. Sealing surface stays in the same place so that the divot in the stanchion can still allow the positive chamber to charge the negative one.
  • 1 1
 @groghunter: roger that, very clear!
  • 2 1
 @Sontator: What I'd really like is a negative spring that doesn't use the stupid divot. You wouldn't even need a bigger volume if they just let you charge the negative side with a pump, you could just put more PSI in it to get the same effect.

& you wouldn't have negative springs not getting charged due to a stupid divot filling with the grease you have to use to lube the piston, you'd be able to use oil on the piston like other forks, etc etc etc.
  • 1 1
 And what about boxxer forks?
You could not go wrong with some extra Volume
  • 2 1
 They use a different system, that is not compatible with the Luftkappe. It's not something we have completely ignored however Smile
  • 2 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: Yes Please. The boxxer air spring needs your love.
  • 1 1
 I will not rest until I have good old fashioned coil and oil bolted to the front of my bike! HAR HAR HAR!!!
  • 1 2
 As long as a fork has a minimum of 3 different companies involved in componentry it should work pretty well. That's my golden rule for fork assessment.
  • 1 0
 Sorry for the sarcasm, I would legitimately be interested in testing all these cool new parts if given the opportunity.
  • 2 0
 GET IN MY FORK ALREADY!!
  • 1 0
 Does this replace the SA piston and the top out bumper?
  • 2 0
 Yes it does.
  • 1 0
 Vorsprung will you be at Sea Otter 2017?
  • 1 0
 Unlikely, sorry!
  • 1 1
 lets see some real dyno charts....not these fake ones they be making up in excel lol....
  • 1 0
 How does this kit compare to an Avalanche damper upgrade?
  • 2 0
 From what i understand (which is not much!!) The Avalanche kit is a total replacement of the charger damper in the right fork leg with a full open oil bath setup with speed sensitive damping and much more external tuneability. Whereas this vorsprung is a replacement of intetnals of the air chamber on the left leg with larger negative and smaller positive size chambers. Presumably a self equalizing setup that runs less psi in the negative but more volume, and more psi in the positive but less volume than the original pike chambers.
The Avalanche will basically be like a totally different fork using the chassis only and therefore giving a totally different feel and adjustability etc. The Vorsprung will still kind of feel like a Pike etc but will give more "natural" ramp up without the use of as many tokens and will also give better sensitivity off the top with more mid stroke support
..........now imagine how good yours/my fork might feel with both the Avalanche AND Vorsprung upgrades!?!?........
  • 1 0
 ......after thinking about it more i think that the Vorsprung with th larger negative and smaller positive chamber would obviously be a self equalizing setup as it still only has one external air valve. But the amount of air in each would be the same but the differentsize chambers would in effect feel like different psi. The negative being larger would take less force to compress initially making the fork plusher off the top but would then give more mid stroke support as the bolume is reduced therefore increasing the pressure.
  • 1 0
 @slowrider73:

Yep, I have an Avy damper in my Pike. The product descriptions basically tout the same benefits, so wondering if just the air spring gets there for less money.

It would be nice to retain the 3 position compression adjustability of the Pike, with the mid stroke support of the Avy.
  • 1 0
 @biketowork29: Springs and dampers don't achieve the same things, as they don't perform the same functions. Avalanche make dampers that perform very well, so please understand that I am trying to be as objective as possible here. Dampers however do not affect your spring curve, and likewise your spring curve does not affect your damping - you can't use one to fully correct deficiencies in the other. For example, no amount of improved damping will alter the initial stiffness of the fork if it's due to the spring. Likewise, no amount of spring improvement can fully compensate for a damper that generates insufficient or excessive damping. The Luftkappe distinctly improves mid stroke support, meaning you can rely less heavily on the compression damping there. You still need some amount of compression damping, it doesn't mean the fork would be great without any compression valving whatsoever, it just means you can lighten it up without making it feel unsupportive.
  • 1 0
 How would this compare to PUSH dampers, besides that PUSH does Fox forks.
  • 1 0
 Has anyone used the upgrade yet? if so how does it feel/perform? thanks
  • 1 1
 Compatible with pike dual position (160mm 140mm)??
  • 2 1
 No, sorry, Solo Air only.
  • 1 1
 How does this kit compare to an Avalanche damper upgrade?
  • 4 0
 They do different things - they're in different legs of the fork. Avalanche make solid dampers that work well, but the job of the damper is preventing excessive motion by providing controlled resistance according to how fast the suspension is moving. The spring's job is to hold you up, but allow the wheel to move out of the way when necessary. You can't fix spring problems with damping, and you can't fix damping problems with the spring. There is overlap between the effects of altering the spring and altering the damper to some degree, for sure, but they are distinctly different components.
  • 1 2
 Possible to run on Dual Position Pikes???
  • 2 3
 It replaces the air shaft so I dont see why not bit you would loose dpa.
  • 3 1
 I think you keep your shaft and change out the piston. So I don't think it will work.
  • 1 1
 @inverted180: I could care less about the DPA function as I rarely, if ever use it
  • 4 1
 The DPA has a different stanction, so there will be no equalizing of positive and negative chambers on the DPA's if you change it for a Solo Air...
  • 4 1
 @JC9won4: Unfortunately not compatible with DPA, it's only for Solo Air.
  • 1 0
 @VorsprungSuspension: I assumed so, thanks for the validating
  • 1 3
 Were is the thread for the lower screw?
Normaly you have a right and left side screw for the casting ????
  • 4 1
 Not sure I understand which part you are asking about? The Luftkappe bolts to the top of the air spring shaft.
  • 1 1
 interesting
  • 1 2
 What year lyriks?
  • 2 1
 "for Rockshox's current generation Pike and Lyrik forks"
  • 2 1
 If it's a Pike or Lyrik that came stock with a Charger and it's Solo Air, or it's a Solo Air Yari, it will work.
  • 2 4
 Just get new 36s instead ????
  • 10 2
 Yes I could buy a 36. Amazing fork! Oooor I could buy a PIKE, this vorsprung kit and still have 400 quid left in my pocket for a decent wheelset. Hmm... soooo hard to decide. So hard indeed
  • 4 1
 The 36 is a great fork, however retail here in Canada is roughly 20x the cost of the Luftkappe kit.
  • 2 5
 Or just get an MRP Stage!?
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