Mavic Crossmax XL Wheelset - Review

Nov 18, 2014
by Matt Wragg  
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Mavic Crossmax XL Wheelset - Review

The Crossmax XL wheelset is important for Mavic. While their Crossmax Enduro wheelsets were undeniably popular, they were based on the well-established Crossmax ST and SX platforms - where the XL is the first all-new platform we've seen from the French wheelmaker in a couple of years. Unquestionably there was some pressure on Mavic to deliver with these wheels. Launched in Trans-Provence country in May of this year, Mavic describe them as being suitable for trail, all mountain and enduro riding. In other words these are designed to be all-round wheels that should be light enough to tackle big climbs, but tough enough to survive tough, technical descents on the other side. They retail for $1,000 as a complete wheel and tyre system.

Available in 26", 27.5" and 29", all three sizes use a 27mm wide aluminium rim with a 23mm internal width - which although relatively narrow by current standards, makes it the widest trail rim Mavic have produced. Front and rear run on 24 beefy Zicral spoke, with Mavics Isopulse lacing on the rear. At the hub, they can be adapted to take 9, 15 and 20mm on the front, and 9 and 12mm, with 135 or 142mm spacing on the rear. They care available with a regular Freehub or the XD driver body to take SRAMs 11 speed drivetrains. One thing worth noting is that the freehub body is fully serviceable and every part is replaceable and easy to work on at home with standard tools. The 26" version weighs in 1660g for the wheels only, which is 95g lighter than the narrower, 21mm wide Crossmax SX. The 27.5" weighs 1710g and 29" 1780g.

For a detailed look at the Crossmax XL wheels, check out our first look at them from their launch in May 2014.

Details


• Purpose: Trail/all-mountain/enduro
• Material: Aluminium rim and spokes
• Diameters available: 26", 27.5" and 29"
• Axle options: 9/15/20mm (front); 9/12x135/142mm (rear)
• Width: 23mm internal, 27mm external
• Spokes: 24 Zicral spokes front and rear, with Isopulse lacing on rear
• Tubless: UST compatible
• Weight wheels only: 26", 1660g; 27.5", 1710g; 29", 1780g
• Weight wheels and tyres: 26", 3150g; 27.5", 3390g; 29", 3520g
• MSRP: $1,000 for complete wheel and tire system
• Availability: Now


On The Trail

We put these wheels through six months of hard abuse. They went through the La Thuile, Valloire and Finale Ligure EWS rounds; the Punta Ala, Madesimo and Sauze Superenduro rounds; plus countless miles on the unforgiving, rocky trails around Sospel in the South of France.

One thing that always sets Mavic wheels apart from their competition is the UST system. From the factory they come ready to mount tubelessly - there is no need for any kind of rim strip. If you are an obsessive gram counter, this means you save those grams. For the rest of us, it is a sign of what is without doubt the most reliable tubeless system on the market. Mavic UST rims always mount well and hold air longer than any other system we have used. In our six months with these wheels they were mounted with Mavic Quests, Michelin Wild GripR, Hutchinson Squale, and Schwalbe Magic Mary, Hans Dampf and Rock Razor tyres - every single time they went on without fuss, we never need to resort to the compressor to seal them. Out on the trails we never lost air, no matter how hard they were hit they just didn't burp, holding pressure perfectly even with pressure down towards the 20psi mark.

Mavic Crossmax XL
Mavic Crossmax XL
  All the way throughout the Crossmax XLs there is a great attention to detail - they may look similar to Mavic's existing offerings, but every single element has been gone over with a fine-tooth comb to find where they can be incrementally improved.

First impressions of the wheels on dirt were good - the Crossmax XL tick all three of the boxes we're looking for in a wheel: light, stiff and strong. On the way up the hills, the weight is on the money for where we'd expect a wheelset for this kind of riding to be. That meant they rolled at a good pace and picked up speed nicely - but don't mistake them for lightweight XC wheels. Coming back down again they were pleasantly stiff, making for a precise, tight feeling to the steering. After those abusive six months of use we can only report good things for their durability - the rims are still as circular as the day they arrived and all of the original spokes are still in there.

Mavic Crossmax XL
  The Quest tyres offer a fairly minimal tread pattern that is geared towards riders who looking for a fast-rolling tyre, rather than something to test the limits of traction

Where the wheel and tyre system falls down slightly is on the tyres. Mavic designed the Quest tyres to have what they call a "consistent profile", which translated to a tyre with a circular profile, with no channels to signal the transition to the side tread. If you are using something like a Maxxis Ardent on the front and rear, then the Quests could be an interesting alternative. For us the problem was that we could not feel the transition onto the side tread, then the small side tread gave way almost instantly. This meant you would find the tyre had broken away from you without so much as a hint it was ready to go. On natural trails with exposure this forces you to ride tentatively so you avoid ever coming near the edge of the tread. Pairing a Quest with a bigger, more aggressive tyre on the front seemed like a sensible option, but they were let down here by the soft rubber. Mavic say they use a 50A compound, which should be fairly resistant, but we found the tread was falling away within a matter of days. However, Mavic do offer the option to switch the tyres to the beefier Charge or the Roam that have been available on the Crossmax Enduro wheelsets, which could be a better option for more aggressive riders.

Issues

After six months of hard use a couple of the spokes did work loose and the freehub needed tightening as it did drop the chain during a race run. It's hard to hold this against them though, in truth we should probably have checked the freehub along the way and the spokes were a two minute job. What's more Mavic provide the tool to do this with the wheels. If we were buying a set of these, we would pause to think about the availability of spares - it is one issue we occasionally hear from Mavic owners as all the parts to those wheels are proprietary and availability can be tricky, depending on where you live. Mavic have a network of 16 service centres across the world, and aim to solve any issues within 72 hours, although it can vary in other parts of the world. They are also confident enough to offer a two year Product Protection Plan to back up the wheels, so even if something does give way in that time, you wouldn't have to pay to replace it.


Pinkbike's Take:
bigquotesAs a wheelset the Crossmax XLs are a homerun for Mavic. The weight is good, they are stiff and the last six months have proven they are a truly reliable option. What's more, with those polished, aluminium hubs and black rims we maintain they are damned good to look at too. If you aren't put off by the proprietary components, then they are a great option. We can't extend that praise to the Quest tyres though, we do think Mavic need to go back to the drawing board on that account, as the soft rubber and lack of feeling on the tread left us wishing for more. Mavic do acknowledge that this first generation of the Quest tyre isn't perfect and are working on a revised version at the moment.- Matt Wragg


www.mavic.com, @mavic

Author Info:
mattwragg avatar

Member since Oct 29, 2006
753 articles

146 Comments
  • 44 9
 Lol at the fanboys, apparently 23mm width rim beds are totally unridable nowadays, damn how about that! Must be all the high speed g-forces of bike park berms.... Same kind of logic that sees rim hooks being removed
  • 20 19
 Go have a ride on something with a width over 30mm and get back to me. My last wheelset were CrossMax SX. Now i'm on Derby-I9 and wouldn't think of going back the difference that a wide rim makes is H-U-G-E!!!
  • 11 11
 I have... Spent a long time on wide and narrow rims, all types of riding and tyres too. Cant say I noticed a difference, wheel flex (xc/dh rim) tyres, tyres pressure and bike/fork stiffness make so much more difference I could never tell if my rim width was affecting my tyre roll.... Lol
  • 4 1
 The main difference imo is the amount that the tire rolls over when turning , other than that I don't feel much difference
  • 11 6
 ctd07 - rim bead hooks are unnecessary, at least in carbon rims since folding tyres got so good and tight. In aluminium the bead hook may eventualy serve as a stabilizer for the rim side wall. I have carbon, hookless rims, run them tubeless at low pressures - no burping. They are 27mm wide internally so I also get all the stability I could dream of. As to bike parks, that is irrelevant. The problem with narrow width appears when you want to run high volume tyres with light weight, thin casings which are useless in bike parks as they would roll off any rim given enough force, and they feel sketchy anyways. Guys like Barel or Clementz ride quite thick tyres there, they still must run higher pressures.
  • 2 0
 Bender-oz, I've been thinking about the same set-up (Derby-with I9 hubs). Back and forth on it. Considering Stan's widest rims with Hope hubs, too. Any observations or thoughts would be really appreciated.
  • 5 3
 I'm on the "wider-is-better-bus". Is the extra cost worth it (Between Derby and Stan's)? Are the carbon rims "too stiff"?
  • 3 2
 mx bike rims don't use bead hooks and they are under a lot more load than mountain bike rims and tires.
  • 7 3
 I just don't buy the claims that wide rims can be safely run at lower pressure. This is marketing, and not substantiated by physics or my experience. I had 35mm internal carbons earlier this summer, they took a few hits at 28psi, so I bumped it up to 32 and were still taking hits at that pressure on 2.3 Maxxis. They finally died a horrible death. I've been running the 25mm internal DT Swiss EX471s, running them at 30 psi with the same tires on the same trails. There have been two rock strikes in the four months I've ridden them, the hook is still straight, just scratches really. Wider rims equal more rock strikes for a given pressure, IMO.
  • 9 2
 Ughhh, you need higher pressures to keep the tyre stable over the narrow rim, not because of rolling over, grip or snakebites. If you run stiff casing then this is next to a non-issue... Take a nobby nic or HAns Dampf with EVO casing for a faster ride through a rockgarden or corner a bit harder on berms. Spme people don't care, I know folks happy with 2.4" MKingsII Supersonics with lightest tubes on medieval Mavics XC717s with 17mm internal width, but most people appreciate wider, however even I think that 30+ internal width is a fat bike worthy fk up and I admit that 25mm is all I need.

And you are right, I run nearly identical pressures on 27mm rims as I did on 19mm because of pinch flats.
  • 15 3
 You are also right about marketing, but this happens everywhere, they exaggerate the issue to convince people that it is them that started to chat with God, Stephen Hawking or Richard Dawkins and they have all the remedy for worlds problems like burping, stiction, roll over, bestiality and poverty.
  • 17 1
 The only people I know who can't shut up about wide rims are almost all slow descenders. The response from nearly all the fast descenders I know and talking with a couple of WC mechanics and managers, the response has been "meh - the weight trade-off is not worth it". Are wider rims more stable? I can give them that. Are they faster....probably not.

Lets remember you are adding quite a bit of weight in a location where it has a much bigger impact than ANYWHERE else on the bike. Lets also remember that with the new bigger wheel standards this is already more of a penalty than with 26". You generally hear that rotational weight on the outside of a wheel matters from 3 to 10 x as much as anywhere else on the bike due to moment of inertia and rotational forces. Rims like the Syntace W35 (30mm IW) weight 565g!!!! That is easily 100g more than a mid-level 23 to 25mm IW rim. 200g on a bike!!! Do the 3x to 10x math...Would you add 600g to 2000g of weight anywhere else on your bike for that?!?!?!...fuggetaboutit. Of course that $hit is more stable....you basically just put a boat anchor DH wheel on your trailbike!!!!!!!

Here is the other thing: when you run tiers like a highroller II, DHF/DHR, or any tire with no intermediary knobs between the center and side tread.....it aligns the rim hooks with a location on the tire where there are no knobs to cushion rim impacts. Look on the Syntace website...they even have a graphic showing you not to run those types of tires (ie all good tires on the market!!) Lower tire pressure, moderately fast descender, square edge hit....pinch flat city and spending lots of $$$ on your expensive tubeless tires...
  • 5 0
 @ waki, Barrel and JC also run Mavic rims, race the Enduros which the rear is 21mm internally, I know I run a set, sayimg that I am a wide everything fan

I wanted to test the Enduro Mavics for a stiffness comparison vs say Enves which Ive fun for the last 2 seasons, to understand cost vs perfomance and if ROI is really as big or any that the industry keeps selling us.

Ive been super impressed by Mavic Enduros, the wheels are as stiff if not stiffer than my Enve set, are super fast and strong Ive ridden these on some narly narly trails btw 27.5" vs 26" Enves and still they feel every bit as stiff, tires Charge and Roam have been incredible, especailly the Roam which is tiny but it grips way beter than it should, Ive run UST for years and Mavic cant be beat, I DH UST on my DeeMaxs never burped, I did however burp my Roam after letting too much pressure out on a wet and very rooty trail, but this happened on another trail later on on a hardpack trail when I came up short gapping a 3m hole.

So far bee super reliable, would love it if Mavic would make a wide rim, maybe weight strength in alloy would suffer.

But the experiment proved one thing Carbon is way too big a gap in price vs perfomance, I can buy 3 sets of these for a Chris King set on Enve rims here.

If I was to build another carbon wheelset it would be on Derby rims probably.
Just saying.
  • 3 1
 @ckcost - Syntace W35 weight 500g dead. I checked both mine rims (26") on scale so its not that difference is that big. I'm running now 400g 30mm ID 27,5" rims which are lighter then say Flow EX 26" by 100g !!! so I call weight argument irrelevant Wink
  • 4 1
 Wide rims conspiracy yo dent your rim through the channel on Minion or Butcher, then Aluminium wheelset stiffer than Enve? - i think these are the symptoms of a thread just going for too long. nothing against any of you really, truly madly honestly, zero malice or dickishness here. This is no attack. I am terribly sorry but i am out and I advise the same before wheel .size debate gives room to rim width debate.

Ehh and Mavic did make better rims than 823 or ones on deemaxes. They were called D321 disc, weighed 590g and had 24mm internal width.
  • 3 0
 Waki, its now called the ex729 and has a 29mm internal width and weighs about 670g.... Same rim!
  • 1 10
flag ckcost (Nov 19, 2014 at 11:28) (Below Threshold)
 @tsuful 26" is dead. You didnt get the memo? I have 650b I weighed here. 565g.
  • 2 0
 And for the other argument, there are some mx rims that have a form of bead hook, but mx wheels don't run tubeless so there's no concern of burping, the hook helps prevent burping... Yet again mx having no relevance to mtb
  • 8 0
 for now I personally still prefer the feel of a narrower rim over a wide rim (with current tire offerings) so i appreciate if some companies keep offering a narrow rim and give a choice to customers who like that. Not everyone needs to like the same stuff.

If a new generation of tire comes out i will have to give wider rims another try as this would be a whole different story.
  • 2 0
 ctd07: And MX bikes have rim locks too.
  • 3 2
 NickBit, that's also irrelevant, a rimlock stops the rear rim spinning inside the tyre, no human could accelerate that hard on an mtb, rimlocks don't stop burping, tyre roll or have any performance enhancement to cornering etc.
  • 2 0
 ctd07
a few years back out of curiosity i marked up tire and rim. Tires actually move quite a bit on the rims even though not because acceleration forces but of braking forces. I used Deemaxes with UST minions (20psi front 25psi rear) and found the tire in the front tire to be spun about 5cm or 2" at the rim and the rear about half of taht after a weekend riding fast in the bike park.

not that it matters really for riding...
  • 2 0
 That doesn't surprise me, a small amount of movement isn't the concern, an MX bike could just sit and spin inside the tyre at the start grid and burn through the rubber...that is why you have a rimlock
  • 1 0
 Same here@ctd07:
  • 25 3
 [Quote]Mavic have a network of 16 service centres across the world, and aim to solve any issues within 72 hours, although it can vary in other parts of the world[/quote]

Then why on earth have Mavic UK had my Crossmax Enduro wheel for nearly 7 weeks for a simple rim swap?

I'll be doing the sensible thing when I eventually get it back.....flogging the pair and buying a set of Hope Pro 2s
  • 4 0
 Hope pro 2's on 721 is my go to all day long.
  • 5 1
 I busted spokes on my 27.5 Crossmax SLR's. Bike shop ordered the spokes from Mavic and had it fixed in a week.
  • 3 0
 I am with you. Mavic has had my wheel 5 weeks counting. Not to mentioned they charged me to replace spokes due to collateral damage from a broken axle.
  • 4 3
 Month and a half wait for replacement spokes for my Crossmax ST's, will never buy Mavic ever again.
  • 9 3
 you know you could get spare parts for your shit before it breaks... just a thought
  • 5 1
 Oh yeah, buy a new pair of wheels and then buy spare rims and spokes, makes perfect sense.....
  • 7 0
 Spare spokes are never a bad thought especially when they are proprietary. Same issues go for Crank Brothers and Industry nine. Vary rarely can you get your hands on the right spokes overnight. The fact of the matter is, if your going to spend the money on proprietary wheels, buy a few spare spokes and nipples, or in my opinion, spend the cash on a traditional J bend spoked wheel. You can lace up a set of kings to 721's with dt double butted for the same ballpark price as Deemax's. You will end up using the hub set for the next 10 years and swap out rims for whatever you desire. Far better investment if you ask me.
  • 2 0
 Not rims, but spare spokes makes perfect sense.
  • 3 2
 I've owned several sets of CrossMax wheels over the years - SLRs, STs, and SXs. Never once have they let me down. Currently on SXs which I've used at Whistler and backcountry rides. With regular maintenance, they're bombproof. I weigh 230# on the bike and ride a bit of everything. Cannot recommend 'em enough. Wragg didn't really lay out the details but the Protection System is worth looking into. Carbon's cute but silly expensive.

From mavic-mp3.com:

"With the MP3 ‘crash replacement’ programme your Mavic product is covered for any accident, fall, or damage for 2 years"
  • 8 0
 "After six months of hard use .... the freehub needed tightening as it did drop the chain during a race run."

Huh?

In what way did it come loose, and more importantly, how on earth did this cause your chain to fall off?
  • 5 0
 Dude. I'm glad it's not just me.... What the h#ll does this mean? Baffled....
  • 1 1
 When the freehub bearing wears, the freehub and the cassette wobble, meaning chainline isn't consistently straight and gear changes inconsistent. I guess it dropped off the top or bottom because of this
  • 2 0
 A worn bearing can create a little wobble. There is no way in hell this could be to blame for a droped chain tho, unless your rear mech was set up by a hack. And you cant fix it by tightening anything. So the comment still doesn't really make any sense.
  • 5 0
 you're dropping 1,000 dollars for the wheelset, not the tires, i'll probably throw those out and put on some Minions, that isn't a big deal, and can anyone say anything actually bad about mavic wheels? i've never heard anyone say "my mavic wheels suck because ___________" and if anyone who has owned and ridden Mavic wheels has complaints, i would like to hear them, because i am considereing buying either this wheelset or the Crossmax Enduro. and i know the internal width is relatively thin to some of the fatter options available.

That said, anyone know wheelsets that are wider, just as strong and as stiff as the Crossmax XL or Enduro mavic's?
  • 3 2
 I'm thinking that with ProCore, Light Bicycle wheels are looking like a great option now. The ProCore system will protect the Carbon rim and the LB rims will shave some weight to make up for ProCore. Should also be able to run a lighter weight tire since Procore should help support and protect sidewall.
  • 2 1
 Exactly my thoughts. I just have one question to Schwalbe (who never replied to me): Is the valve stem long enough for this sort or rims? Carbon rims usually have a rather long distance between the bed and the inside of the rim.
  • 7 4
 TFreeman - I sold Crossmax STs only because of narrow width. Other than that they were super tough, they roll fantasticaly, they feel really fast, accelerate like a dream, making you want to sprint out of corners, pumping and keep on pedaling after the crest. so you just get that sensation of acceleration. In Europe spokes are easier to get that most people think. Also truing them, is a breeze. Rims themselves also don't break a bank as much as even the cheapest carbon rim. So apart form width they were fantastic. Width and price... I would never ever buy them as new because they are expensive, regardless of what I get for the money. >600€ for a wheelset is a freaking lot in my books, for my wallet. I bought mine second hand in great condition for 30% of MSRP. Having said that I strongly encourage people to buy those! In 2,3 years I will be definitely looking for those on the second hand market for my wives bike. 23mm internal seems good enough for me.
  • 2 0
 I saw so many spokes going on Mavic wheels this past summer. So many that our local Mavic dealer only 2 hours from Annecy ran out and we couldn't get hold of Crossmax spokes for a long while. That said one go my mates was running his 2012 SX's all season with zero issues... it seemed all the 13/14 wheels were not so good quality.
I'd still rather these wheels than any of the en vogue carbon options - dirtmountainbike.com/features/carbon-mtb-wheels-do-you-need-them.html
  • 6 0
 I own Crossmax ST's and love them. All of what Waki said is true 100%, the torsional stiffness is phenomenal (I suspect due to the burly aluminum spokes) so they accelerate hard. I run a 2.4/2.25 combo on these wheels with no rim width issues however I tried to run 2.5 Minions and they didn't like it. Crowned the tire too much and I rolled the rear one off in a hard corner. In fairness it's a trail wheel and not really designed for huge tires. They are so tough though you want to do that to them haha. No issues with spokes, I've bent one slightly but none have broken and they are true with no time in a truing stand after a few seasons now. I snapped the rear axle casing a trail gap and it was replaced under warranty so no complaints there either. I would buy these XL wheels in a second.
  • 2 0
 I have these wheels and they're sweet, right down to low 20s in PSI. spokes are a little vunerable to sticks flicking up so I've ordered a few spares so I dont get caught out. Feel superb and I wouldn't want a more square tire profile from a wider rim as I actually slightly miss the knife edge flickability a 19mm rim-tire profile gives. Over all I'm dead chuffed with these for the few months they been on my bike.
  • 2 0
 @TFreeman like others have mentioned, Mavic wheels are awesome, until something breaks. Even in Atlanta with no shortage of high-end shops, it can take a loooooooooooooong time to get replacement parts. If you can, stock up on a few extra spokes and a freehub. Maybe a rim too.
  • 4 2
 @ARonBurgundy how many spare parts do you have to stock up on, before it just makes more sense to buy wheels with readily available parts instead, though?
  • 4 1
 Give me the name of a shop having your exact spokes in your exact length instock, as well as the same rim or at least one with equivalent erd? Never seen that but it may exist. I have DT spokes and some on stock. I have a shimano derailleur and one on stock as well.
  • 4 1
 @groghunter, exactly! That's why I sold my Mavic wheels after I rebuilt them for the last time. Now I run WTB or Stan's rims with traditional j-bend spokes and reliable hubs: Profile Racing, Hope, and King.
  • 2 0
 @EnduroManiac www.universalcycles.com/shopping/index.php?category=198

They can usually get me stuff in 2 days at the most.

Same is true of Cambria, if Universal happens to be out of stock.

& if neither of them has the length I need, as long as there's somebody who has a slightly longer spoke, there's a shop in town with a spoke machine.

I run Stan's Flows. I don't find it hard to find those in stock either, & several DT Swiss rims(at least, if not other brands) have a similar ERD
  • 2 0
 @groghunter I meant lbs when I said shop.
I run standard Mavic rims. I f*cked one up in Italy in a resort where a race was taking place. I had to spent a full day calling around and drove 50 km just to get the rim exchange. I was ready to buy a new wheel even, that I'd sale again, just to save my week end. But I couldn't find anything around. You know, 26", this widespread standard? Well it's dead I'm afraid. So I don't see a big difference with finding no replacement spoke that you should anyway have in your toolcase.
  • 1 1
 But we weren't talking about only having spare spokes(which, incidentally, I always order a few of when I build a wheelset.)

We're talking about HAVING to have a spare rim, because you've got straight pull spokes with the those weird nuts they use on UST rims, so you're completely dependent on one company having stock. HAVING to have spokes, because you can't just have a standard 2.0 spoke cut on a spoke machine if nobody has the length you need in stock. We're talking about HAVING to have spare hub parts, because you can't replace the hub that gives you problems on your wheelset with one from a better company.
  • 2 0
 I honestly think the proprietary spoke argument is overblown. I've only broken spokes a few times in my life on a bike. Most likely because I check and tension spokes when they need it and by the time the spokes are fatigued and ready to break my rims are cashed anyways. The hub argument ? I'm confused ... so you would HAVE to keep hub parts around because if you ran somebody else's hub and broke something you wouldn't fix that one? You would remove it from the wheel and install a different hub? ... I mean sure you could but now you need spokes and you need to build a wheel so aside from the cost of the rim you have a new wheel now regardless.......
  • 1 1
 No, the point is, if you want certain Mavic Rims, you have to get their hub.

If i want to buy a wheelset using a rim with standard spoke holes, I can pick literally just about any hub I want, so if durability is a concern for me, I can pick something that might have a weight penalty, but is built like a tank. Or, if I pick something lighter, I can always pick up some spare parts, or pick a really common hub, like a shimano, that will have parts available from lots of different places.

Mavic? known for stock shortages, known for hubs with problems. I'm now compelled to buy spare parts for my brand new wheelset, unless I'm ok with having to wait on their stock shortages keeping me off that wheelset for possibly months.
  • 2 0
 Yeah I suppose that's true... although Mavic makes rims with traditional holes that are great too. I don't know but my only experience with getting parts for a Mavic hub was a good one. I was without my wheel for two weeks including time to ship it out for Warranty repair. I rode a spare wheel in the meantime.
  • 1 1
 No argument there, except that they have a history of keeping some of their better rim technology exclusively for their in-house wheels, & not offering standard versions(not really familiar with their current lineup in detail, so not prepared to weigh in on current landscape.)

But there's so many other options out there, & many of them beat Mavic handily on price or features, so it's hard to recommend their products these days.
  • 1 0
 so what would be a better rim/hub combo? i've also been looking at DT swiss,and they're just as pricey. I know there are a lot of Hope-Stans combos out there. and i know Derby holds down the wide rim market pretty well. any suggestions?
  • 2 0
 TFreeman - Ryde Trail rim seems extraorbitantly attractive. 405g (26") at 25mm internal width! If you want a slightly cheaper version of ZTRs go for WTB Frequency i23 or i25. Also check if you can buy stuff from Superstar components, they have some juicy wide and light rims for pennies.
  • 3 0
 DTSwiss hubs are fantastic. Lots of great options out there, not saying there are not. I just have to defend Mavic's approach of engineering everything together, it works well. The proprietary straight pull spoke provides some benefit. I do wish the hubs were better, more serviceable and better engagement would be welcome. I mostly prefer Hope hubs myself Smile but I still think this XL wheel set looks killer.
  • 2 2
 I've had similar issues getting SX spokes. I ended up just riding the rear wheel all summer with 2 spokes missing and didn't have any issues. Maybe this winter I'll try to track down those spokes again.
  • 2 0
 @DARKSTAR63 are you saying i can't go wrong with either haha.
  • 2 0
 For your money a Hope/stans wheels are killer. I have been using those awhile and love it. The price you can't beat either. @TFreeman
  • 1 0
 i heard its what everyone is using now a days.
  • 1 0
 @TFreeman Yup, & it's for a reason. The only real complaint about Hope is weight & engagement, but there's plenty of other hubs that check those boxes if they're important to you. Industry 9 still makes standard flange hubs, with high engagement, Shimano makes some pretty light (& affordable)stuff, some people swear by Profile Racing, etc. DT swiss hubs are pretty light & high engagement as well.
  • 4 0
 i have a pair of SL's on my junk bike-i mean, my old xc bike. i'm continually amazed at how well the mavic ust system holds air. i might air up those tires once or twice a year. on a bike that mostly collects dust in my basement-i only use it for beer runs. back when the bike did see a lot of use-8 or 9 years ago-the wheels were insanely reliable (for superlight xc wheels). having said that, my I9's engage much quicker. but I9 is known for that. really not sure how quickly newer mavics engage. rim width-mavic clearly dropped the ball there. not sure why mavic thinks they should get in the tire game. or why they think they need to sell wheels with tires-sell the tires separately. if the tires were better, the $1000 price tag would actually be kinda reasonable-notice i said kinda reasonable. my 2cents
  • 2 0
 I have the same experience with some very old Mavic CrossRock (?) and Hutchinson Scorpion tires - from YEARS ago - on this beater kid-towing xc bike. Must have an unreal seal on the rim-tire interface.
  • 9 2
 Finally a set of wheels you don't have to sell your kidney for.
  • 3 0
 I got a bike with some older(7-10yrs at this point) cross max st's and they've been sweet super light vs stock. No issues with the spokes or hubs and I have yet to open them up (may be a project for this winter). The only complaint is that they are a royal pain to mount up tires by hand. Its doable with a decent tire lever. I have pulled tires off the bead under super heavy loads( jump turns and turning while braking up on the front wheel) with pressures around 20 psi, never had an issue above 25psi
  • 4 1
 Considering Pinkbike has also been testing wider rim carbon rims (ie. Ibis 741 Carbon) I'd like to hear a performance comparison. It's hard to take the conclusion that these are a "homerun" seriously when it isn't placed in context to the conclusion by Mike Levy on the Ibis 741: "There's no doubt about it, the 741s have convinced us of the benefits of ultra-wide rims. They allow the tire to provide more traction, make for a more forgiving ride, and also proved to be a much more reliable setup when running low tire pressure". Couldn't/shouldn't any review be analyzed relative to other available comparables (particularly when the Ibis is only $1,300 - not including tires)?
  • 4 0
 I agree, Trillot. Also for a few grams lighter, you can purchase the specialized fattie luminous version for $600.

www.specialized.com/us/en/ftb/wheels/roval-mtb-all-mountain/roval-traverse-29

After upgrading wheels on my spec enduro in 2013, I went from 19mm aluminum DT Swiss to 25mm enve and there was a definite, undeniable improvement in grip, available pressure, small bump sensitivity etc. I weigh 170 and run 21psi both front and rear with no squirm or pinch flats. As soon as manufacturers started coming out with 30-35mm rims I couldn't wait to get some. I am in the middle of purchasing a 29er on layaway. As soon as I have that bike, my first upgrade is the roval fattie 29 wheel set, which I can then upgrade with Derby or Light-bicycle carbon rims. At the most I will have to buy new spokes, but I will have a lightweight durable wheel set with wide, supporting rims. And instead of spending thousands at once, I can spread it out a few pieces at a time and have a bike I could've never afforded all in one shot. I could even build a wheel set with derby rims and XT hubs for less than these Mavics or Ibis.
But back to the point, I have to chuckle a little inside every time a manufacturer comes out with their new "high performance" wheels and they are 25mm and under. It's like their living in the past, afraid of change even with all the scientific and anecdotal evidence in front of them. Perhaps it's because they have such deep roots in the road cycling world.
All's I know is, I ain't buying no skinny rims for my MTB ever again.
  • 1 0
 "luminous" in the first line above should be Aluminum. Auto correct made a mistake.
  • 4 0
 Good to know this is an "all-round" wheelset.

Ps- I think mavic should stick to making wheels. Leave the tires to companies who know what they are doing.
  • 2 0
 I agree those Quests are not very inspiring...but take a look at the Crossmax Charge 2.4. It is a seriously great tire.
  • 6 4
 72hrs FOR A BROKEN SPOKE IS TOO LONG! You can replace a J-bend from your local shop in 72 MINUTES!!!! Imagine if you were on vacation somewhere riding your bike and you had to kill 3 DAYS waiting for a stupid alloy spoke!!!!!!!!
  • 12 0
 imagine if you bought spare spokes before you needed one
  • 1 2
 Imagine if the spare alu spokes you bought cost $10 a piece....oh yea...actually they do!
  • 1 1
 True, they are stupid expensive. But spokes don't break too often and the stiffness gain form the aluminum spokes is worth it imo.
  • 1 2
 Mavic wheels gain more stiffness due to their excessively heavy rims than alu spokes.
  • 3 1
 Buy rims with stupid spokes and have stupid problems Smile
  • 2 0
 All the width talk aside, I bought a set of crossroc's when I was in the States and lost the 135-142 adapters in transit back to OZ. Went into my lbs to buy a new set and they were happy to help. when they got on the phone to the Australian distributor they started asking me where I bought the wheels, from whom, how much etc. the sales guy told me" the distributer had none in stock and weren't prepared to take any out of existing stock (fair enough) and it may be 6 weeks or longer till they get some in" The mechanic of the store told me that the distributer of mavic are really hard to deal with if you don't buy your wheels off them and they would most likely never help me out.
I searched online and found many US and Euro sites offering the adapters but all of them were unable to post to Australia due to Mavics policy that suppliers cant ship outside of their region.
I was able to get a set and had them posted to a friend who forwarded them on to me.
Then a few months ago I went to the same lbs to get a new pair of Mavic Alpne XL shoes (old ones wore out) the sales rep rang the distributor again and asked if they could get a size 48 2/3 The distributer said they don't supply that size due to lack of demand and wanted to know who and where I bought that size shoe. ended up having to buy from the States again and have my mate ship them over.
Anyway, did like the mavic stuff I have carbon wheels now and still love the alpine xl's but for an international brand they are one of the worst I've ever had to deal with and the Australian distributor has missed out on a couple of sales that I had to go o.s for due to their stubbornness.
  • 2 0
 props to mavic for not jumping on the wider is better bandwagon. The argument of more contact area with wider rims makes sense if you are one of these straitliners that ruin my trails. The situations I need more grip is when I'm off camber, especially in turns. Here a normal rim width and round tyre profile would give more contact area and thus grip.

Only thing negative to say about mavic is that when hou eventually after 3 or 4 years need a spare end cap, axle, or whatever your national distributor will not have it in stock and tell you to buy a new wheelset. Serious manufacturers. eg hope, do mot butt##ck you like that
  • 8 5
 Insert to expensive com... wait a second... 1000$.. for TIRES AND WHEELS?
Well in that case insert comments about unreliable hubs, proprietary spokes, and 'meh' tires here!
  • 10 5
 Jerome Clementz disagrees with all the naysayers
  • 27 2
 Jerome clementz is paid to disagree with all the naysayers.
  • 10 4
 If Jerome Clementz cared to reply to even 10% of naysayers he wouldn't have time and will to ride his bike
  • 4 0
 Before Mavic came out with the Enduro hoops he was running ST's instead of SX and didn't appear to have any issues. Lot's of other guys running ST's way beyond their modest intention.
  • 2 2
 Some people, myself included like the flick-ability a narrow rim - round tire gives. Just means you have to work for grip with body position and line choice, more fun to work for it and really feel for the limit. In many ways that extra grip makes you a lazier rider.
  • 4 1
 EpicStormer - too much grip? It seems that the only person you are trying to convince is yourself to not buy a new rim or feel better about the one you have. I say it good heartedly, I've been there and it's perfectly ok.
  • 2 0
 No Waki Im not meaning too much grip. I'm referring to flick-ability which is noticeably less as rim with increases and tire profile flattens. Slightly less edge grip is a a compromise im happy to make and work for the final nth. Most of the time (trail riding) I prefer the extra nimbleness. I like what I like and I don't mind voicing an opinion which doesn't follow the trend(prob why I bought a 26" wheeled bike recently). Everything is a compromise and this is a good balance for me. I fully understand the case for wider but not everybody is after the same thing, I think thats OK and I know I'm not the only one(even if most follow and others aren't open).
  • 8 0
 Last time I checked, just because a new thing is better than an old thing, doesn't mean that the older thing will immediately make Jerome Clementz slow.
  • 1 2
 EpicStormer, just like suspension, dropper posts, disc brakes, and 650b wheels make you lazier, right? You must ride a cantilever brakes full rigid bike then. LOL!!!!
  • 6 1
 OMG you people. Stop trying to find one right or wrong. I'll quote myself "Everything is a compromise and this is a good balance for me."
What is right for you is up to you but make no mistake there is compromise in everything its just a case of it working for you.
  • 3 0
 I agree. I run a 18mm internal width rim and 2.3 HR IIs. fun, slidey and perfectly controllable.
  • 2 1
 Fine, His results disagree with all the naysayers amongst riders riding wider rims. Also managed to win on 26 inch wheels
  • 3 1
 and here I was thinking his results were based on his ability. Guess I'm going to go buy some Mavics & go win the EWS next year, sorry Jerome
  • 2 0
 I guess i am just implying that skill, prictice, and rider ability will factor greater than what products you use. Graves was finishing at the top and even won an ews event this year on his SB66 before he switched to the SB6 on 25mm ID rims. Lets not forget what gwin did with no tire
  • 2 0
 Obviously Graves, Clementz, and Gwin are at far different levels in riding ability but you would think if anyone could feel differences in rim widths and performance differences it would be them and their performances would suffer if they are not using the popular trends that are happening these days. Look at graves who uses a 740mm bar which all pink bike reviewers would deem too narrow for this level of riding. Even when he was running the alloy fat bar that had wider widths available he was running 740.
  • 1 1
 Feel the differences? yes. I can tell the difference between a 740 & 780 bar easily(though Gwin famously couldn't even tell an interviewer what he was actually riding on his cockpit: he kept answering those questions with "the comfortable one") & I can tell the difference between a wider rim, wider tire, & bigger wheels. So surely a pro rider can tell the difference.

Make enough difference to keep a top rider from winning, when he's faster than the other riders that day? Make enough of a difference that a rider would forgo the paycheck he gets from a sponsor because of a small improvement? I'd say that's far less certain.

I like wide rims, & am not a huge fan of Mavic. If I was a pro rider, & Mavic offered me a 5% raise over a rim brand that I like, chances are I'd be riding Mavic.
  • 2 0
 Graves has muscles so does not need the additional leverage provided by the wider bar and probably enjoys the extra clearance (and keeping his little finger intact) when shooting through a narrow gap at mach chicken. He is also not that tall so biomechanically he doesn't need 780mm bars (a fact that a lot of riders over look when they fit their new 800mm bars - are they actually forcing you to ride with straighter than ideal arms because your hands are now too far apart relative to your shoulder width?). Remember wider bars are a relatively new thing so a lot of existing trail (single track) was cut based on the 'widest' bars of that time. We have trees with bar cut outs in the bark on some of our older trails that you can no way fit a modern 740 mm plus bar through (unless you can manual or wheelie over ruts and roots, whilst climbing, whilst turning your bars sideways to fit through the gap).
  • 3 2
 Mavic have come up with a even less grippy rear tire. How's that even possible? That rear tire that came with my enduro set was the worst tire iv even rode on and that includes that plastic stuff you get on kids asda bikes (Walmart if your American).
So there's a huge waste of space and money attached to these wheels.
Wide rims are way better. Big volume, no flex, more grip.
  • 5 0
 Why on earth would you do radial lacing on the drive side?
  • 3 0
 probably to aid in spoke replacement without removing the cassette
  • 1 0
 To move spoke heads as close as possible to the freehub. This way it improves drive/non drive side spoke tension balance.
Straight pull spokes are worse than J bend when you use traditional cross pattern (j-bend are only 1/8" appart on each side of the flange)
  • 1 0
 I had a set of the original Crossmax SX wheels and they were awesome in use. Super strong on my Bullit and then transferred them to my Nomad. The issue I had with them and the issue that for me still remains is that even in a town with good bike shops, the two times I needed parts was a two week wait for them to be ordered and shipped. Two weeks isn't huge time. But, when I can walk into any shop and get the parts I need for the DT Swiss wheelset I have now, that two week wait is unnecessary. So, even though I loved using the Crossmaxes, I decided I wanted something just as good but simpler to repair and get parts.
  • 1 0
 I have an original set of Mavic Crossmax XL's from 2003 that are still true and running great. Perform simple maintenance on them and these should last a very long time. I don't send huge jumps, but I ride aggressively and race from time to time. I have trued them once in 11 years and did a minor hub fix to them to cure some play it developed. I have never broken a spoke from bad flat landings or casing a jump. If these updated versions are anything like the old ones I can say that they will do just about anything most of us "normal" riders will throw at them.
  • 5 4
 At that price you can get into wide carbon rims and all their performance benefits for the same or a little more cash these days. Seems a little out of touch with where things are going with hoops.
  • 9 1
 You can, but then you'd have to think that a wide carbon rim was actually better than these. If you live somewhere with say, rocks or don't want to run massive tires, or don't like sudden catastrophic rim failures that might not be your choice though. Still hard to beat a high quality aluminium rim for me.
  • 4 2
 I Love my Crossmax SXs!
I've never bothered truing them after 2,5 years of abuse!
Oh, and that's because they dont need it..;-)
  • 6 3
 You're not riding hard enough/jumping high enough
  • 2 3
 How the hell do you make a wheelset last for 2 and a half years, I can't make mine last for longer thank 2 weeks???
  • 2 0
 If you buy them i'll be telling you I told you so! Shredjekyll my jumps are up to 20 feet long. I dont do rampage but I can say I can judge a strong wheelset....
  • 2 0
 I own 2 sets of sx and they have been slightly tuned for 7 years and run true
  • 2 0
 ditto on mine - the freehub is kind of cooked though...
  • 1 1
 I honestly don't think so hah
  • 3 0
 3 years on mine. Retensioned the spokes and then never had to touch them, clean and grease freehub body and file down gouges (aluminum) every 4 months or so. Daily shredding, mostly heavy trail riding to light dh, a little time at whistler, many hard cases, etc. and zero problems yet. Stiffest cornering wheel i've ever ridden by far too.
  • 4 0
 trouble is my 3 sets of crossmax will not die so going 650B will be a while
  • 1 0
 After being on wider rims I wouldnt buy a rim less than 25mm wide.. I had to swap my i30 rear to a i21 and theres a huge difference...I belive i27 is ideal with current tire offerings
  • 3 0
 Mavic, please bring the deetraks back. I would buy a set immediately!
  • 3 0
 How many POEs on the hub? Thanks!
  • 2 0
 Don't release a product that you admit is not up to snuff.... Big fan of the wheels though.
  • 2 0
 I've been happy with 35mm carbon hoops. Sorry but Mavic wobbly dents are thankfully, history.
  • 4 4
 when will the industry realize wider rims are better....few seem to comprehend the advantages.....
  • 5 1
 "few seem to comprehend the advantages"...i am sure mavic knows a whole lot more about this topic than all pinkbike users combined ever will.
have you ridden this wheelset for weeks? and do you have ridden wide rims for comparison? i dont think so. complain if you experienced the disadvantages, not because some hyped "technology" hasnt been used.

and just for the record: i am not saying i dont believe wide rims have some advantages.
  • 3 1
 Iv tried mavics narrow rim idea back to back versus wide rims over 6 months. Iv sold the mavics. compared to wide rims for aggressive riding there just inferior. Narrow rims are old tech with the ever increasing speed of bikes these days, going wide is just a evolution to boost performance. Bikes that have downhill like performance need downhill like wheels or it becomes a weakness to hold them back.
  • 1 1
 Development cycles are 2-4 years. These wheels were designed just before the really wide rims started hitting the market. They probably saw it as a fad, and missed the boat.
  • 5 1
 The sad part, is that Mavic, with their insistence on selling wheel systems instead of just wheels these days, is perfectly positioned to sell a wider rim with a tire that actually takes advantage of it, but instead, they're essentially making the same wheels they made 10 years ago.
  • 2 0
 ^^^ tis true....it is not hard to add width to a rim, changing the erd change their spoke length, but it is mavic.....how hard is it to add a few mm of spoke on a wider rim? They might change the color, the machined color bits etc...but personally i would rather have a wheelset that performs better than a better looking set.
  • 6 6
 For the price Chris kings and some ztr flows. Can't go wrong. Don't waste time with the mavic.
  • 5 2
 Chris King + flows = 200g more than mavic, without benefit of the trusted and true UST, which is far, far better than stan's tubeless setup.
  • 5 4
 I dare to differ gnarlized. Conpared to the latest tubelessable rims like FlowEX or WTB i23/25, the UST is a worse, outdated design. Even leaving the unnecessarily high sidewalls adding weigh in worst place possible on the rim, the inflatability is just terrible. When using floor pump with UST rims you can inflate only proprietary UST tyres which are outdated as well because they weigh by average 100-150g more than a TL ready tyre which just gets the job done. Tighter tolerances of stans alliw you to inflate btches like Continental tyres from Protection series using only floor pump. Doh! I inflated a Rock Razor tyre on carbon TL converted rim using hand pump, in trail conditions!
  • 4 0
 TR HR2 & DHF & Butchers went up with ease using a regular floor pump without so much as a raised pulse on both my XM819 and crossmax XL so...
  • 3 0
 I currently own a pair of arch EX laced to hope pro 2 by sapim Cx Rays spokes. I only went on Stan's because mavic don't sell something equivalent to EN821 in 27.5.
I owned several pairs of crossmax in 26 (SL and ST mostly). My wife still have a pair of 2009 ST on her bike. My last 26' pair was hope pro 2, XM819 (2012) and DT revolution.
Long story short, and talking only about rims, mavic rims I owned never lost pressure, tires (UST and TR) never burp even at 1.6 bars for 80kg, tires inflated very well from floor pump (nobby Nic, fat Albert UST, crossmarks, high rollers, TL). Never needed to put any sealant in the UST tires (that's for weight), but had to with TL (schwalbe) mostly due to tires folded too tight by schwalbe.
Stan's: burp at low pressure, lost pressure even with sealant, rim strip is frail and can be damaged when changing tire, rims are so supple than the wheelset had to be retrued once the tire was under pressure (!), tires difficult to set in place, etc...
So from my (little) experience, stan's rims don't stand the comparison with mavic's high-end UST rims.
  • 2 0
 Concerning reliability, ease of use, etc... following lines are from a 2011 Richard Cunningham tech tuesday about wide rims.
www.pinkbike.com/u/richardcunningham/blog/Tech-Tuesday--Wider-Rims-Are-Better-and-Why-Tubeless-Tires-Burp-.html

"Universal System for Tubeless is a patented interface between the tire and rim, as well as a set of standards that determine utilitarian functions. A UST tire has a square bead that interlocks to a matching groove in the rim flange and its inside has a layer of sealing rubber to allow it to be aired up and run dry. Among other items, the standard requires that the tire be mounted and aired up by hand or with minimal tools. Watch the Mavic video shown above to see how UST works. The bottom line is that UST is tough to beat for reliability and ease of use. It’s the best tubeless system in the bike industry by a long margin. If you ride XC or trail and run UST wheels and UST tires up to 2.3 inches, you probably won’t experience many of the problems outlined in this test. Presently, you can’t beat the UST system for hassle-free tubeless, but the best can always be improved upon."
  • 1 1
 @gnralized Do you seriously think your experience with the Stan's rims is typical, & that all the other people that have been running them are just oblivious or shills? Because my Flows have been flawless in every regard. But I also build my own wheels, so I know they were built right.
  • 2 0
 @groghunter
First, as I mentionned, I only speak from my own experience in order to avoid any kind of generalization and to let the door open to others sharing.
Second, I only talk about rims because I know that parts and build skills greatly affects wheels quality.
Third, I'm talking about arch, not flows.
I didn't build my wheelset, but I know one thing or two about wheels (like using brass nipples with eyeletless rims for instance) and my wheelset was built this way by an experienced cycle mechanist in Montreal. He already built several tenth pairs of stan's, mostly in 26, but it was the first for him in 27.5. He admitted that arch were supple rims that needs to be trued after ~10 hours ride, but he was surprised the 27.5 to be so mild given the tension he applied and high tensile strength of the spokes.
I had had issues with mavic wheelset (alloy spokes broken, abnormal wear of rear hub bearing on the drive side), that why I moved away from mavic wheelset.
But I maintain that their high-end alloy rims (EX819, EN821), for the aforementionned reasons, are not in the same league than stan's arch EX.
  • 1 0
 Is the Crossmax XL the same rim as the EN423, essentially?
  • 1 0
 Radial spokes on the drive side flange dose no sit with me well.
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