Mondraker Dune - Review

Nov 6, 2017
by AJ Barlas  



At a time when the current buzzwords in mountain bikes are longer, lower, and slacker, there is one brand that can hold their heads high. Mondraker were well ahead of the curve and possibly pushed others in the industry onto the path that we’re currently moving along when they first introduced their Forward Geometry back around 2012—a concept that they worked with Fabien Barel and Cesar Rojo on implementing.

Roll ahead five years and a similar concept has been fostered by more brands throughout the industry, generating longer front centers and steepening the seat tube angles of bikes throughout, while Mondraker has worked on perfecting the design within their line of bikes. The Dune, tested here, is the brand’s 160mm all-mountain machine, and while not quite as long as their shorter travel Foxy, it’s still at the longer end of what’s available on the market.
Mondraker Dune Details

• Intended use: all-mountain/enduro
• Travel: 160mm
• 27.5" wheels
• 66-degree head angle (adjustable to 65-degrees)
• 74.7-degree seat angle
• 12 x 142mm rear spacing
• 215mm x 63mm shock
• 73mm threaded BB
• 1x drivetrain only
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL (XL tested)
• Weight: 13.77kg/30.36lbs w/o pedals as tested (XR model)
• Price: $9,400 USD (8,999 € )
www.mondraker.com

At 66-degrees the Dune comes with a head angle that is on the more conservative side of things for a bike of its nature, and the chainstays are pretty short at 430mm (16.9 inches). However, Mondraker supply a +/- 1-degree headset cup and a chip that extends the stays 10mm. It’s also one of the few bikes in this category that comes equipped with a coil shock (in the XR model tested), something that could excite a number of aggressive riders out there.

Currently, the Dune doesn’t feature the latest in spacing standards, instead sporting a 12 x 142mm rear end. The fork does come with a 15 x 110mm Fox fork for 2018; however, the 2017 model tested featured the 15 x 100mm spacing. Cable routing is internal and is secured in place by grommets that are tightened down once the cable is threaded into place, and the frame features a slender and fluid series of lines that contribute to making this one a looker, even in the larger sizes.


Suspension Design

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Mondraker’s bikes feature their own suspension design which they’ve labeled Zero Suspension System—it could be a confusing name for a system that is anything but “zero,” though there is a valid reason behind it. Mondraker claim that the design provides zero power loss, zero pedal kickback with minimal chain growth throughout the bikes travel, and zero bumps, with them claiming that the system is able to handle trail features so well it smooths out the ride.

The design is based on two short links that mount the shock between them, as opposed to one eyelet of the shock mounting to a point on the frame like with many other dual-link designs. This style of mount sees the shock compressed between the two links as the bike is pushed through its travel, an element similar to Trek’s design, but that’s where the similarities end.


Mondraker s Zero Suspension System compresses the shock between the upper and lower links.
Mondrakers Zero Suspension System


The Zero Suspension System of the Dune is set up to work with either a coil or air shock and the XR model tested here comes stock with the Fox DHX2. While the leverage curve is progressive it isn’t overly so, making it possible for Mondraker to run either of the two shock options. Brake squat is noticeable in the design, with the bike liking to “sink” into its travel when getting on the anchors. The bike also exhibits decent anti-squat, with the goal of supplying riders with a firm platform while on the pedals, despite the 160mm travel.


Geometry/Sizing

We already mentioned Mondraker’s use of Forward Geometry and the effect that the concept has had on the industry, but what is it? Simply put, the concept is to increase the front center of the bike and fit it with a short, 30mm stem. The move provides riders with more room between the bottom bracket and headtube but keeps the bars in a similar position.

The resulting longer front-center is said to provide greater stability on the trail, especially where higher speeds are involved and, Mondraker hope, more confidence from riders on such a bike. The shorter stem grants a more precise, direct steering response and keeps the rider feeling like they are in a similarly sized cockpit to what they’re used to.

Mondraker Dune Carbon Geometry

Mondraker also provides Dune riders with the ability to adjust the head angle and chainstay length of the bike through a separate, provided headset and set of dropout chips for the chainstay. These adjustments make it possible to change the head angle from the stock 66 degrees to either a steeper 67 degrees or slacker 65 degrees and extend the chainstay—and subsequently, the wheelbase—10mm from 430mm to 440mm. The wheelbase grows from 1265mm to 1275mm.

Despite not spreading the rider out as much as the shorter travel Foxy, the Dune’s 10mm longer stays (stock) produce a wheelbase that is the same in its bone stock form as the longer reach, shorter travel Foxy.

Mondraker Dune Carbon Geometry


Specifications
Specifications
Price $9400
Travel 160mm
Rear Shock Fox DHX2
Fork Fox Factory 36 FIT HSC/LSC
Headset Onoff Titan internally Tapered
Cassette SRAM 1275 10–50
Crankarms Race Face Sixc
Bottom Bracket Race Face
Rear Derailleur SRAM X01
Chain SRAM GX
Shifter Pods SRAM X01
Handlebar Onoff Stoic Carbon
Stem Onoff Stoic FG 30mm
Grips Onoff Diamond
Brakes SRAM Guide RSC
Wheelset DT Swiss EX150
Tires Maxxis High Roller II 2.3
Seat SDG Circuit
Seatpost Fox Transfer 150





Mondraker Dune XR








Handling

Jumping on the Dune I was immediately comfortable with the geometry, despite the reach being in excess of 30mm longer than my regular ride, and once the bar height was set perfectly, it was ready to rip. Stack height was reasonable and the bike comes stock with plenty of stem spacers, allowing for adjustability to cover a lot of riders and riding styles, including swapping out bars from the stock half-inch rise ones included.

The first thing I noticed on the trails was how composed the bike is, with the coil shock no doubt assisting, but this on its own is not the only reason, and it would be short-sighted for me to place all of that stability on the coil shock. The longer wheelbase is a large contributor to the Dune’s stability, and combined with the very strong performance of the Fox 36 HSC/LSC fork and the DHX2 shock it creates one confidence inspiring ride. The frame also exhibits a great, balanced ride feel, never deflecting off line thanks to it being overly stiff, nor did it lack the zest from being too soft. It’s finely tuned and provides an excellent trail feel, balancing responsiveness and forgiveness incredibly well, as far as flex goes.

Mondraker Dune XR likes it rowdy.
The Dune is in its element on burly terrain.

Initially, the bike was tested with a 2017 DHX2, which felt good, though I had to drop a number of spring weights to have the bike settle how it needed to. The 2017 shock has a heavier tune (is more restricted), which resulted in the compression being left quite open in an effort to get the suspension to conform to the terrain. The bike still performed incredibly and it was during these first few rides that the abilities of the Dune really surprised me, but after blowing the 2017 shock we were sent the 2018 to continue the test.

For 2018, Fox has lightened the tune on the DHX2, and as a result, the spring rate needed to be bumped up. The lighter tune on the 2018 DHX2 allowed for more use of the damper circuit while still being able to keep the Dune’s suspension as compliant as possible, really granting a lot more adjustability for a range of riders and terrain. Traction was improved even more thanks to the increased, usable tuning range and the bike now could be better adjusted to ride to preference, whether that be lively with more support, or track the ground like a snake; either of these and the range between could be better achieved.

Steep and deep on the Dune XR
The composure the bike provides makes steep sections of trail even more fun.

In its stock form (66-degree head angle/430mm chainstays) the Dune would motor down the gnarliest trails with little concern, with the added length making up for the one-degree steeper head angle than many others in this category, but I still wanted more. How capable could it be? How much could it mute the trail chatter on my favourite trails, while still being fun and lively on the machine-built stuff around the area? The one-degree slacker headset was thrown in to check it out and the chainstay left at 430 to limit the variables.

Once the slacker headset was installed, the bike exhibited a more planted feel and as one could imagine, on steeper terrain it required a less drastic shift to correct weight displacement than with the steeper head angle. The front wheel felt considerably farther ahead, despite only being one-degree, but aside from granting even more confidence to charge, steering and climbing remained very good.

In fact, the long 1265mm wheelbase saw me make it up some tight switchbacks with relative ease. Those same switchbacks have always proven troublesome regardless of the bike, but here I was on the longest trail bike I’ve ridden to date, making it around the corners easily. This sort of experience was repeated on a number of occasions during testing, regardless of the head angle setting or chainstay length.

The Dune enjoys some back wheel shenanigans.
The longer chainstays didn't hold the bike back from having fun on the back wheel.

With the Dune proving to be incredibly capable in all situations and a lot of fun to ride, regardless of whether trying to go quick or jib and play about, I wanted to see what the longest chainstay would be like. A simple swap of the dropout chips extends the chainstay of the bike from 430mm to 440mm, and the wheelbase out to roughly 1275mm. The change had no noticeably negative effect to the bike's handling. It did require a little more effort to rock back into a manual, but it took seconds to sort out.

Instead, the change resulted in the bike cornering even more like it was on rails, with the longer rear placing the rider closer to the center of the wheelbase. Going back to the shorter chips resulted in a number of near loop-outs and blown corners as a result of the wheel being too close to the rider. Climbing was improved also, with the bike now exhibiting more traction and requiring less rider weight shifts to get up tricky sections—there was more traction at the rear wheel with less input.

In the end the bike was left with the long stays and slack head angle, and never came close to being problematic, regardless of whether riding old-school awkward jank, or completely unknown trails—a situation where something like a long wheelbase, if truly problematic, could make itself known quickly.


Mondraker Dune XR


Thoughts

Geometry: The extra large Dune may seem like a really big bike to some, but it was one of the best fitting bikes this 6’3” tester has swung a leg over. Back pain disappeared, riding all day was comfortable, and the stack provided an excellent range of adjustment. Where it could be improved is in the seat tube.

The 20-inch seat tube meant that installing a 175mm dropper was questionable. Fortunately it fit, just, but the interrupted seat tube almost put an end to that update, with the bottom of the post bottoming on the end of the seat tube. There was about 19mm of room to wiggle before the collar of the post would have bottomed on the top of the seat tube.

With more options available for posts above 150mm, it'd be great to see more frames lower the seat tower, granting riders the ability to run longer droppers and get more clearance.

The seat angle could be even steeper too, at least in my experience, and while the 74.7-degree effective post currently on the Dune is very good, taller riders, or those with proportionally longer inseams will find their weight scooted out considerably closer to that rear hub thanks to the pretty slack actual seat tube angle (69.9 degrees).

• Suspension: While the Dune’s Zero Suspension performed incredibly well, the progression at the end of the stroke did prove to be a little light with a coil. With the correct spring rate in place it was possible to bottom out, and fairly firmly, on features that an air shock had no issue with. Adding high-speed compression did help, but to get the amount needed to prevent bottoming meant that traction and composure were negatively affected.

One solution is to run a heavier spring weight and lose some of the top end, which with the Dune is possible, but I prefer the bike to sit into its travel comfortably with a light top end, so the more occasional bottom out was a sacrifice I was willing to make. The bike is also available in models with the Float X2.

The internal routing also features rubber grommets to help seal the internals and to help keep the cable in place. Also note the integrated protection added below the stay on the driveside.
The shorter stay and the clean cable routing. Also, note the integrated protection added below the stay on the drive side.
The stout rear of the Dune.
The stout rear of the Dune and very capable Fox DHX2 result in a great bump eating combination.


• Finish: The Mondraker is definitely a more premium product, with the Dune XR here coming in at $9,400 USD. Thankfully the frame comes with a high-quality finish as opposed to some of the bikes available for similar money. The Mondraker is up there with the likes of Santa Cruz, where every little detail appears to have been thought out and well executed even down to the shock bolts. Frame protection along the chainstay is among the best ridden, with every element covered. The protection remained in place of the entire testing period as well. The included headsets, chainstay chips, 200mm rear brake adapters are a nice touch too.

The one area where they may fall short for some is in the internal routing. The frame includes internal cable routing but doesn’t do so with tubes to feed the cables through—this can present some problems when installing new cables. Thankfully the system for securing the cables employed by Mondraker does a fantastic job of keeping them quiet if setup correctly, while also keeping cables in place, with no cable creep to speak of.

The seatpost cable exits the frame inners on top of the downtube and is also secured in place with a screw and compression.
The seatpost cable exits the frame inners on top of the downtube and is also secured in place with a screw and compression.

Tidy clamps secure the cables where they enter the frame.
Tidy clamps secure the cables where they enter the frame.
Beneath the downtube the derailleur and brake line exit before going back into the frame in the chainstays. Again secured into place with compression.
Beneath the downtube, the derailleur and brake line exit before going back into the frame in the chainstays. Again, secured into place with compression.

• Adjustability: Having the ability to adjust the geometry on the Dune is a definite draw for some. Receiving a bike with short stays and the ability to extend them, allowing riders to actually try out longer variations without having to worry about being stuck with something that perhaps isn’t for them is great. It’s led me on a path to go longer and longer after having no issues with the length on the Mondraker. It’s also got the potential to help those that ride or race in a lot of different terrain, giving them the ability to change it to suit, if the longer lengths aren’t favourable. Not sure where that may happen, given the bike's abilities in the jank of the North Shore and throughout the Sea to Sky, but the option is at least there for those that want it.


The Fox 36 Float with HSC LSC takes up the bump eating duties at the front.
The Fox 36 Float with HSC/LSC is an excellent fork.
Fox Transfer post with 150mm drop.
The Transfer is a great post for the money and does the job with few nags.


Component Check

• Fox Factory 36: There’s a reason that the 36 received our Suspension Product of the Year Award for 2016. The fork works incredibly well and provides a very controlled and efficient use of the stroke. It’s said that it’s been improved again for 2018, but the 2017 fork is already a great option.

• DT EX1501 Wheels: The EX 1501 wheels from DT are an incredible alloy wheel. The hubs roll smooth even after a summer of abuse and the rims, despite containing a couple of dings, survived all that this bike can handle, which is a considerable amount. Ride feel is great and the 30mm internal width provided an excellent, stable tire profile, whether with the included 2.3 High Roller II’s or the Schwalbe Magic Mary 2.35’s opted for.

• Fox Transfer: The Transfer is a great post for the money. We did, however, find the one on the Mondraker to rattle and create noise on the trail. I also am not a fan of the small square surface used to trigger the remote, especially now that there are many great options for more ergonomic remotes available. With the max available drop of 150mm, the post was removed in favour of something that would allow more clearance on the trail.

• Onoff Touch Points: Having never had experience with the Onoff accessories I was pleasantly surprised with the quality and feel. The bars feature a 9-degree backsweep and 5-degree up and proved very comfortable. The grips, which are similar to a Ruffian, were very comfortable and the solid rubber outboard end was durable and added to the comfort.

• Maxxis High Roller II: The High Roller II is a great tire that I’ve gotten on fine with in the past. Unfortunately, the compound supplied as an OE part on the Dune wasn’t what I would look for and it surprised me to see the Exo sidewalls on such a rowdy capable sled. The tires were removed and replaced with Super Gravity treads after a couple of outings and the ride was rewarded with another level of stability as a result.




Pinkbike's Take:
bigquotesThe Mondraker Dune XR is an incredible bike that is loads of fun to ride. Yes, it's $9,400 USD price tag is by no means cheap but there are three carbon and two alloy models available in the range to cover a number of budgets. Bikes of similar quality cost around the same amount and won't include the extras for adjusting the wheelbase and head angle either. Its composure and ability to make rough trail more manageable grants riders heaps of confidence. It can comfortably handle the gnarliest trails in the Whistler Bike Park and throughout the coastal B.C. region and it's completely capable of fun-having on mellower more average rides with a few clicks of adjustment. Extending the wheelbase only increased the capabilities in rough or fast terrain, with no sign of negative effects elsewhere.

For riders looking at aggressive trail bikes, one that can ride the bike park and spend the day on the local trails, possibly with some adjustability in there, the Dune is a must look. 

AJ Barlas








224 Comments

  • + 547
 Im all for top end bikes, and have nothing against 10 grand bikes, but when a bike costs 10 grand, and includes a half ass x01 drive train, meaning half gx, alloy wheels, guide rsc brakes, i dont think thats right. If im spending 10 grand, the thing better have carbon rims, xx1 drivetrain, ultimate brakes, and shit rainbows and unicorns.
  • + 98
 And be made in a forest by goblins.
  • + 40
 amen my dude
  • + 59
 Just about to come on here and comment, but beaten to it.

They are great alloy wheels granted, but 10 grand & alloy wheels, own brand components, GX parts & not even Guide Ultimates?

They are on crack.

And its a Mondraker. It will probably break.
  • + 11
 @RecklessJack: and even the waste be adorned by mermaids
  • - 173
flag Kramz (Nov 6, 2017 at 1:45) (Below Threshold)
 I've never had 10k in my life. I feel like bicycles are being faded out through cost because women don't like them, and many young people have never ridden them. The world belongs to women and young people, and it's a shitty demographic.
  • - 75
flag karoliusz (Nov 6, 2017 at 2:18) (Below Threshold)
 @Kramz: and you get neg propped for this, which is another evidence...
  • + 2
 Niko182 also tires
  • + 54
 @Kramz: Other bicycles are available. The rest of your post is questionable, to say the least.
  • + 8
 I'd say it better do that for $7500-8000.
Most bikes can if you put it together yourself starting with a ~$3k frame.
  • + 84
 @Kramz: You think the cost of bikes is rising because of women and young people?

Is this despite the fact that the female side of the bike industry is growing at a huge rate and young people are more into mtb than ever as people become more aware of lifestyle and the environment?

Just because you don't have the 10k available to purchase this bike doesn't mean it shouldn't exist, it also doesn't mean its this price 'because vagina and youth'.

The MTB industry is seeing prices going ever higher for top rate kit, but what do you expect? Low volume sales of ultra specific and high performance push bicycles will cost lots of cash, the BIG however is that you can go to YT, Nukeproof, Calibre and a whole host of other guys and pick up an immense bike for 2.5K.

Cost is driven by the cost of business and profit - not by women and young people, you massive nutter.
  • + 4
 @Drover: I would definitely buy a 10k carbon bike if a company is game enough to call it “ocean fill”.
That bike company deserves my money.
  • + 15
 and not even 3C Tires, just EXO TR Dual ...
  • + 4
 @RecklessJack: if it's carbon I expect dark magic and many sacrifices
  • + 11
 @Murph86: thank you for virtue signaling to us all that you care about the environment more than the rest of us. Good job remembering the talking points from the Pole press release. We are all very impressed.
  • + 20
 @HuckersNeck: I'd prefer DT Ex1501 to any cheap chinese generic carbon rims like Giant's or Santa Cruz's.
  • + 20
 I am curious ad to how many bikes at this price range are actually sold in a year.
  • + 9
 This. And having house branded parts, even if they performs, on a 6k+ bike is unbearable. Same for Big S and Big T. Those parts are just worthless when it comes to selling and upgrade. And also not even a Kashima post for this price?? Come on!
  • + 11
 well if I'm spending 10 grand I prefer being able to adjust geometry, an impresive rear suspension design and good handle to shit carbon rims, xx1 drivetrain, shit sram brakes and unicorns anyday. Just a matter of priorities.
  • + 4
 452mm reach for a size small?
  • + 1
 They built a bike they think is right. The did the math, this is what it should retail for. Those who like the bike and are willing to pay the price are going to buy it. Those who need a different bike and/or price look elsewhere. I'm pretty sure things will work out just fine like this. Remember that companies don't necessarily create a "flagship" bike to make money. They make money on the "assembled for a certain price point" bike. But sometimes they just want to go all out and make it the way they would ideally like to see it. And they're laughing at anyone who goes ape-shit because the bike doesn't suit their perfedct picture.
  • + 5
 I want to know what their frame manufacturing costs are, since (I think) their cost on components can't be that different than any other major brand that sells for much less at this build. Their rear suspension design is NOT designed in house, its the Astro linkage found on other Taiwanese catalog bikes like KHS, so they didn't have to spend R&D developing that. The complex shape of the split seat tube connecting to the downtube instead of the BB area is probably difficult and expensive to manufacture, and gives them their distinctive look, but it makes the frame weaker.
  • + 1
 It's a lot of money for a bike with this spec I agree. I think the cost of bikes like this is always going to be super high though just because of the amount of R&D that goes into making bikes like this vs the number of bikes they will actually sell. Mondraker aren't off-the-peg frames sprayed with their own logos. Thousands of hours go into designing these things - that beautiful cable routing, all the design features, pretty unique geometry (Mondraker were very early to go longer, lowers and slacker), those dropouts, the clean look of the whole thing.

If you want carbon wheels, sick spec etc you can get a YT Capra for half this money. It won't come with a Mondraker carbon frame though.
  • - 10
flag Kramz (Nov 6, 2017 at 7:14) (Below Threshold)
 I literally want to sell this bike until I can't. "Ride it until you're a professional, and stfu" m.norco.com/bikes/mountain/dirt-street/ryde/ryde-26
  • + 3
 @Racer951: See, you're talking too much reason to a loon. The proper response is to laugh at his tinfoil hat.
  • + 15
 This. Never understood why Mondraker is so expensive - that is in relation to the components of the bikes. How come? Especially if you consider that with 3K less you get, say, a Pivot Mach Carbon, XT/XTR, full Kashima (including X2). I am not against 10K either but this is a kind of 'a bit too much' maybe for what you get. Nah.
  • + 7
 @Kramz: I wouldn't post when drunk, but thats just me
  • + 7
 @hamncheez: Drunk on lady hate and old age.....
  • + 7
 My bike eats unicorns and shits rainbows!
  • + 4
 @Benito-Camelas: you can get those things on a radon swoop for less than 3000 euros
  • + 13
 Agreed. I got blinded by the nice frame and bought the 2016 carbon Dune RR. Tyres got swapped out soon as I could as well as the absolute dog shit SRAM Guide RS for Saints. X01 drive train....meh....it's doing the job...

For how much I paid the components could have been so much better however......the frame is absolutely incredible and it rides super sweet.

Too expensive? Hell yeah. Worth it? Hell no. Do I love it. f*ckin A I do.
  • + 2
 I'm amazed my 2 year old blue 5010 with orange Fox decals remains on point. So ready for another color scheme to take hold...
  • + 5
 For the price this thing should weigh 25lbs.
  • + 2
 @priest55: I have been living with an alloy XL 2015 Dune XR for 2 seasons, Boss Kirk rear shock and Pikes up front... Full XT M8000 with 46t expander. I built up from the frame which was new for less than 3000Euro, selective purchases around sale times saved me hundreds... I am now trying to source a carbon purely based on the performance of the alloy, once mastered it is staggering, there is not a bike i have ridden that is as planted, as quick... or as forgiving when you truly f*ck up..... So impressed am i with the whole 'forward geo' thing that i have just built up a Factor R, for more leisurely ? XC days, and that rocks as well.......
  • + 3
 @enrico650: Sounds about right. Have you tried? You'll never go back.
  • + 2
 @Novakki: Totally agree.. it takes more than a couple of rides, but once you've got it ;-)
  • + 1
 Yup that is taking the p 1 5 5
  • + 1
 @freebikeur: Kashima? this comes to mind: www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT-mSima3CE

If we're going to have it, at least make it a long, golden, shaft Smile )
  • + 3
 @Kramz: : And I thought all the stupid bigots resided in my country.
  • + 3
 people are too focused on component spec - carbon wheels - even on the ews most people don't ride them. There no relevant benefit, they are just more expensive - cheaper version of SRAMs 1x11 - doesn't really make a difference either although I'd expect to see eagle for 2018 - Guide RSC - I would kick any Guide brakes off my bike There really are other things that are relevant. For example, it's great to see the 2018 Foxy Carbon features tube-in-tube design to prevent noise and ease installation - that's the point when Trek Slash owners get jealous, not those carbon rims.
  • + 3
 @Bigernmcracken: everything is everywhere, some countries just have better PR
  • + 1
 @agreed--this was one of the most positive ride performance reviews I have read, why worry about the specs if the ride is so great? Maybe it's more about the end than the means.
  • + 1
 Well its hardly half gx, the chain is the only gx part.
  • + 2
 @BeerGuzlinFool: And I am curious to know how many riders actually pay this price. (Probably not many.)
  • + 4
 "where every little detail appears to have been thought out and well executed"

Kinda strange that the least sophisticated part of the bike is a third tier spec on a $9400 bike.

Furthermore here is a quick price breakdown:

DT wheels $1k

Fox fork $1k

cranks are $400

and lets say the drivetrain and cockpit are $1k

That is $6k for the frame and fork
  • + 3
 because carbon rims are.... ???
Sorry...I agree with most of what you are saying on this bike...BUT do you want to have the best components for the price or just carbon for the sake of carbon, because you think everything carbon is just the best?

Or in other words: You fell completely for the Marketing BS of a lot of brands, telling you carbon is the best, because they can basically sell it to you at a much higher price...

Seriously guys: Wake up: Carbon is NOT the non-plus-ultra for components. It's only a material, which might make sense for certain parts. In fact, for most it just doesn't!
  • + 2
 @guide210: Exactly the calculation I nearly did before seeing your post. Something doesn't add up here. Is a Spanish mechanic basically getting about 2g to build each bike?
  • + 1
 @BenPea: The funny thing is that you get offended by this and you don't do this calculation for Intense, Yeti or SC with their crappy Components/Price ratio.
  • + 2
 @BenPea: but what does a business pricing a bike a certain way have to do with you in this way?

They are selling a luxury good, it isn't your gas / electricity supplier you are scrutinising, they can price their product however they see fit, if as you say it is too high and nobody buys it they will either adjust or cease trading.

How much is apple making on the new iPhone X? How much do LV make on a handbag? Do you have to buy either? People still do though....
  • + 2
 I take no offence. I even pointed out earlier that there is no point complaining about expensive bikes. I was just bouncing off the many points made by other posters with sound analytical minds who also wonder how they seem to be charging 3 grand for the air inside the frame. How much are those wheels worth? Easily less than 1k. Drivetrain: not the best money can buy. Tyres: meh. Shock: compromised. And they are getting every component at trade prices. The profit margin must be insane. Either that or they need to sort out their cost structure or spend less on their xmas party. Guide 210 puts some figures on the table, don't these raise questions? I would have the same questions about the other brands mentioned, having just checked out the Yeti website: same wheels on a 9.5k sb6. Surely it's logical to look at each component and assess what you're getting for the money? Pre-purchase analysis is always going to win over post-purchase choice-supportive bias. It's a free world, and a cold-headed assessment should not be mistaken for dogma.
Of course, anyone can buy what they want (money buys dreams after all) and if the firm can turn a profit from this business model then great! Everyone's happy :-)
  • + 1
 @BenPea: There are many reasons behind product costing, it is a complicated subject .

You are kind of suggesting that multi million pound worldwide bicycle companies dont complete an analysis on pricing / cost their bikes correctly but we are able to do this on Pinkbike in 5 mins?

The analysis that is happening on here directly concerns cost of production but no other aspect such as supply chain and the potential that they just think they can ask for this price 'because it is good'.
  • + 2
 @Racer951: A part of me thinks they are just trying their luck. "Intense can get away with it, why not us. Maybe if we match the price of the trendier brands, we can conjure up that premium aura that will take us to the top table of mtb manufacturers in the minds of buyers." If you can't compete on price, compete on exclusivity. And a high price is often a selling point for the wealthy. If we're being objective, there are myriad other industries (luxury sector I'm looking at you) that make 10g look like small change, and mtb is a comparatively sensible sector. Gotta bitch about something haven't we?
  • + 1
 @BenPea: Its high price is what makes it desireable. Unsold units are destroyed rather than discounted. But like Intense, they make lesser models. So they're not doing it correctly. That would be Unno. Where are the Veblenites?
  • + 4
 A lot of people here seem to be missing the point. It's not that it doesn't have carbon rims, or that carbon rims would be better, it's that it's selling for the same price as a bike with carbon rims. Aluminum is entirely acceptable, but maybe for about 2k less, at least.
  • + 2
 and no Boost rear end.
  • + 1
 @ceecee: Nicely put. The Veblenites? Everywhere.
  • + 3
 @TheR: Same spec as SB6 for same price. 1g more than a stacked bronson with alu. 1g less than an insane tracer with Enve. Economics become blurred at that end of the market.
  • + 3
 @Whipperman: Why is it when people mention carbon, everyone turns into some dribbling bell end claiming it’s all crap!!! Have you seen the Danny Mac video of him trying to bust a Santa Cruz carbon rim?
  • + 1
 @Murph86: What about Treks carbon recycling plan?
  • + 2
 @Murph86: Please. Carbon waste is nothing compared to the single-use plastic bag.
  • + 1
 @ceecee: Plastic bags are bad for the environment therefore we should buy other things that are potentially bad for the environment no questions asked. Nice.
  • + 1
 @tom666: Because aluminum, steel, and humans are so good for the environment. Please begin your naked swim into the Atlantic.
  • + 6
 @ceecee: This carbon fibre hate immediately after the Pole statement kind of pisses me off a little.

They look to have exposed to the greater public that carbon waste is dumped directly into the sea at some factories and because of that people have gone into meltdown about carbon products.

At its current popularity its not the carbon itself that is the problem, it just isn't entirely that wide-spread in commodities around the world outside of high end goods so its the culture behind the particular factory that is at fault - change their culture and the problem stops, send the frames to be ground up by an injection moulding company for use in reinforcing plastics for example and the problem could be dealt with.

Aluminium production isn't nice either - anyone remember the village that was destroyed by a flood by an aluminium factory, it was horrendous but we are not calling aluminium frames all out to be the devil. Steel, well that has its own issues too and if the culture behind their production is poor then the same will take place - dump the crap into the sea.

Its all about changing the manufacturers culture first, that will make the biggest change to the environment, after that we can then start to scrutinise material choice, I'm not saying carbon is as good, better or worse, I'm saying that currently its who is making it not what its made from that's the issue.
  • + 2
 @Racer951: Thanks for the help. I don't have a carbon frame, but find the facile ocean fill comments more than irritating. The comments in Carbon Conundrum (@duzzi, @dhfox322) are instructive. Plus, it's okay to have a Carbon Jack, but not a carbon Pivot!
  • + 1
 @guide210:
reminds me of the price of an Intense...
  • + 36
 Looks nice! But for 9.4k, nah. Great review, thank you.
  • + 5
 Maybe it's much higher priced due to import, but they start at ~2300€ here(for base Al models) rode one and it was without a doubt the most stable enduro/AM bike I've ridden going down.
  • + 22
 I think there should be a Pinkbike pole to see what the average site member spends/spent on their go-to trail/enduro/downhill/whatever bike. Whatever they ride the most, essentially. I would LOVE to see what the percentages are for folks buying bikes over $7500. Nothing against it, either. I think it's great that you can afford it. This is purely to quench my insatiable thirst for somewhat-irrelevant information. (But seriously. I need to know now...)
  • + 4
 Personally I wouldn't spend much more than $5,000 on a bike. Chances are all builds have parts that do not interest me, so I immediately see them as a something to be replaced. I'd rather buy a cheaper spec'd bike and use parts that I want myself. I'd spend higher than $5,000 if the bike came with all the parts I want, but the chances of that happening are slim to none.

Edit* Currently looking at the Canyon Strive CF 7.0 which is $3,999 USD, then replacing the wheels and brakes with hope parts and a box drive train.
  • + 1
 @Katakalism: No Shapeshifter problems?
  • + 8
 Do you want to know what I really spent or how much I told my wife I spent?
  • + 10
 A PB pole would probably be located in a basement bar in Whistler and have Micayla Gatto (sp?), Robbie Bourdon, or Cedric Gracia dancing on it.

I do think a poll on how much we spend would be great though!
  • + 1
 @kabanosipyvo: I'm down with Micayla dancing, CG not as much
  • + 1
 @kabanosipyvo: RIP Boot Pub
  • + 2
 @sngltrkmnd: Amen brother!
  • + 2
 @kabanosipyvo: Stoked that a rider from Ukraine gets the reference! Будьмо!
  • + 1
 @MartinLR: 2015 shapeshifter units were turds, 2016 onwards seem to be pretty reliable from most accounts.
  • + 1
 @kabanosipyvo: I've always found prices in an international forum to be a little unclear. Obviously there are exchange rates to deal with but also different taxes and the way they are applied. UK prices are always including the 20% vat while I assume Nth American prices are before tax which varies between states/province. It would be nice to know what people actually shell out at the cash register.
  • - 1
 I don’t get when people complain about pricing, it’s as simple as ‘are you too poor? No? Cool, then buy this bike and enjoy the shit out of it!!!’

If you are too poor, then sorry, but maybe you should have tried harder at school....... you need to stop hating on everything!!!!
  • + 2
 I got a banshee rune, 3 angle settings, pike, monarch, gx drive train, guide brakes for 2500. Granted, I was lucky it was on clearance, but 3000 is tops what I'd spend on a bike.

Is it just me or do prices seem to becoming inflated? Remember $5 footlongs? Now they're $7.
  • + 1
 $4,500, not including tax and a few minor accessories.
  • + 9
 That seems like a damn legit bike. I’d still buy the cheapest option and swap a few parts. Good review as well. The only complaint is the comment about lower back pain, in 99% of cases it’s not about the bike... even if it’s not the case with the test rider here, for vast majority of people out there, the lower back pain is simply a result of not lifting weights often enough and not having patterns of movement dialled.
  • + 7
 Mmmm, no I agree with the reviewer about lower back pain. Sit further forward and mine got better. Same happened to lots of people I know
  • + 1
 I was also thinking about this back pain comment, as this is what I struggle with unfortunately (back pain, not the comment). @AJBarlas , which bike parameters do you think may induce back pain? And @WAKIdesigns , what are your thoughts about the movement patterns? Gym is another thing and this is planned for the winter too!
  • + 11
 I wrestled in college, and have never slacked on the weights, but I still get back pain on a poorly fitting bike.
  • + 2
 @Slabrung: Both Abi (who does a regular yoga article here on PB) and James Wilson (bikejames.com and occasionally on PB) have some practices on how to prevent and recover from lower back pain. You may like to look into those.
  • + 5
 I'd say not as high as 99% not the bike. A couple years ago my lower back was getting tight/sore while riding, and it was really affecting me and my rides. I work out daily with an array of activities and have a solid core, but the pain was getting persistent so I thought it could be the hydration pack but nothing changed. Then I thought it was maybe an old injury flaring up so I started getting massages too...nothing was helping and I was getting bummed out and rode a lot less. So I started spending time on a bike that I didn't enjoy riding nearly as much as my main rig and I noticed the pain didn't happen...so much so that I kind of forgot it was ever an issue. I went back onto my "good" bike and there it was again---stabbing lower back pain, tightness. So yeah, a bike that doesn't fit you well can absolutely create issues. That bike is gone, I fell in love with an even better bike and I haven't had any back pain since. Smile
  • + 3
 @Slabrung: re: patterns of movement. Does that basically mean avoiding movements that hurt? i.e., finding a way of achieving the same thing without triggering the pain? e.g., my neck hurts like f*ck if I turn it by itself, so I'm supposed to twist my whole torso around to look behind me (my torso hurts too though, maybe I need to stand on a lazy susan). Am I in the right ball park?
  • - 3
 @Slabrung: the basic pattern of movement to train in MTB is hip hinge. Then row and anti-row. For instance, many people perform squat like movements when jumping/bunnyhopping, while they should be deadlifting. Those are developed mostly on the gym. Deadlifting, snatching, Then it's invaluable to train particular skills like manual bunny, because it forces you to move in an efficient way. If you bunny once or twice a ride and that's it, the chances are that you do it in non optimal position, you can't jump high enough, your timing is off, you get unnecessarily tense in wrong places and then your muscles get fkd. For instance if you just yank the bars for manualing a meter or two, your arms don't appreciate it.

@hamncheez - look at variety ofgeometries from XC hardtail to 170 Fr bike. Bike Fit suggests that only one bike is good for one person. there surely is some really bad setup, but I think "just right" is a rather wide spectrum for MTB.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I get that- everyone is different and there is a wide spectrum of sizes and geometries for each individual that fit well, but the same goes for a poorly fitting bike. In my experience, bikes with too short of reach and/or stack height (for the persons given height) give people back pain, whether it was my old Cannondale Prophet AM bike or my last Ventana DH bike, both of which were too short for me.
  • + 0
 Hey guys, thanks a lot for your replies! My impression is that the longer the reach, the bigger strain on the back... Not good if you like progressive geometry!
@vinay, I saw Abi's vids, tried some stretches, they are great - I should definitely do them more often.
@BenPea, I was referring to Waki's post, which he explained in details later. I bet that the position on the bike can impact back pain...
@WAKIdesigns, cheers mate! It's true that manualing is terrible for my back. Will give it some thought.
  • + 3
 @Slabrung: the general concept of "proper neutral position" is silly if the person teaching it doesn't mention conditioning. There is no way in the world a 25+ non-athletic person can hold such position for a prolonged period of time without training on the gym and without basic mobility. Gym is a science on it's own, but getting into it will benefit both your bike riding and your everyday life. A good program will improve your muscle memory, make them fire better, you'll be much more explosive in your movements and on top of it all, it will make your body more durable, so consequences of crashes will be milder. You will also be less likely to crash if your neuromuscular system works in an optimal manner. This year I trained a lot and I didn't need any upper back/ neck massage after working in the office.

If you aren't sure where to look for a good program, James Wilsons Ultimate MTB Workout program is really good. It comes with schedules and basic instructions, and you can do most of the stuff with basic equipment at home. bikejames.com Then I cannot recommend enough the caliesthenics program by thenx.com. This will get your core and shoulders strong and durable as hell and most of it is body weight.

@hamncheez - it all depends. As I said, there is surely some "fit" for each person on each bike, but in case of most MTBs, it's a rather wide spectrum. I personally like steep seat angles in particular, especially for long distances in the saddle. I'd say that before someone blames the bike, I want him to touch his toes, deadlift 1.5x body weight, squat 1x body weight and do 6-8 legit pull ups.
  • + 2
 @Slabrung: have you tried out different saddles? I got back pain from riding a new bike with a cheap saddle but as soon as I swapped it out the problem went away
  • + 1
 @BenPea: It means re-training the body to do movements properly. Most people have no idea how the body is supposed to move safely. See a Physical Therapist, specifically one that works with athletes. They are movement specialists to help fix these deficiencies.
  • + 1
 @dualsuspensiondave: And get your bike fitted when you buy it! For the kind of money the average PB reader spends, the shops can spare 30 minutes to fit you. And then observer and fine tune. Remember, your seat has rails, your bars can rise or drop, etc.
  • + 4
 @Poulsbojohnny: bike fit for MTB Jesus... I'd like to see a bike fit for Enduro bike done in a shop, come on. I want them to adress dropper post... then stem length and all the repercussions of altering it in terms of bike handling. Even the max seat height depends on trails one rides on - mainly fireroad climbing? Set it quite high - bumpy singletrack, how about an inch lower, if not more? What do you make of DJ bikes? How is that thing rideable considering all these super long bikes?

Bike fit for road cycling is polishing a turd and spraying it with Chanel no5. A rather dreadful position for a human body to be in, is being made less dreadful. For people who spend 99% of their riding time in a non aerodynamic position rendering drop bars useless and compromising ability to pull hard on the brakes when needed. 50% of bike fit is a trick for a bike shop to sell a bike, "oh and by the way, if you buy this one, you'll get a bike fit for free, otherwise it costs 100$.

The only person who I know, who got close to making bike fit for MTB meaningful, is Lee McCormack, and that's still good for a beginner. Quite frankly if you follow producers size chart, it's hard to mess up. Unless that bike is simply awkward.
  • + 1
 @dualsuspensiondave: if i have to see another physio in the near future I'll effing lose it. Or a physical therapist. I'm going to self medicate based on the couple of hundred sessions I feel like I've had in the recent past, for various issues.
@WAKIdesigns: and you can piss off if you think anything good ever happened in a gym!
As for fit, just use feeling.
  • + 3
 @Poulsbojohnny: In my experience, shops with expensive fitting machines either have kids with little training or older, set-in-their-ways roadies who think pain means you're in a good riding position. Its like many ski boot fitters- every place I went to in Park City pushed me into boots that were 98mm wide in the last (forefoot), saying you had no control with wider boots. They also all sized me at 26. After giving up skiing because my feet hurt so bad, I tried a pair of park boots that my friend insisted on that were two sizes larger and 105mm in the last, and I could finally ski again.
  • + 1
 @BenPea: Ah well, open water swimming then, alternating front crawl and backstroke. Don't be so hard on gymnasium, it makes a fine porn set. Does f*cking strengthen one's core?
  • + 1
 @BenPea: Just go mountain unicycling or slackline walking. Excellent for core strenght, especially when you're still learning and overcompensating Smile .
  • + 0
 further forward sitting and jogging, jogging is boring as hell but it helped me a lot.
  • + 1
 @ceecee: swimming... yeesh... And the gym thing? Only decorum kept me from mentioning that sole exception earlier. But sometimes what happens in the brain stays in the brain.
  • + 1
 @vinay: they're next on my list after death by ski touring
  • + 1
 @BenPea: Alright then, don't rush it!
  • + 1
 @rms195: (trail) running is fun but I need my ankle to get its shit together.
  • + 5
 Here's a thought. Mondrakers break. I have broken two Foxy chainstays whilst my friend's Dune broke in the exact same place. I love the geometry, but the strength is hardly confidence inspiring. These are some of the fastest bikes you can ride in a straight line, I wish the rear triangles were able to handle such pace.
  • + 7
 PB photogs have been getting artsy lately ! Double exposures and tilt/shift at Rampage and now inconspicuous long exposure!
I love it! You're killing it!
  • + 1
 ISO 25.000?
  • + 4
 Lovely machine, way out of my price-range but so is a single seater race-car, a Porsche or a ultra high performance computer - Doesn't mean they shouldn't exist though - If people don't buy them the companies will stop making them, simple.
  • + 6
 It's not a Porsche, it's a bicycle, c'mon.. we tend to put our bikes too easily on pedestals and agree with high asking prices.. yes there's a lot of technology that goes into modern bikes but still, it's a bicycle.
  • + 1
 @Forest-Gnome: I'm not comparing it with a Porsche in any terms other than it being a luxury item I cannot afford that is highly priced.

Why is it that people in the bike industry seem to question pricing so aggressively of a product they have no intention of buying - there are many other options and if it doesn't sell they will either stop selling it or cease trading.
  • + 3
 @Racer951: Even if I won't be buying, a lot of other people will. 10k is just ridiculous and it grinds my gears seing that bike companies can get away with those prices pretty easily ! I bought a used 2013 frame and upgraded every single component with newer ones; my build came under 4k; when bought new, the bike was worth 7k.. How many guys with expensive bikes like these do you see at your local trails or bike park ? I see a lot, yet I don't understand how they can afford buying a new rig every year, just as I don't get why people change car every 3 years. Debts, debts debts.
  • + 0
 @Forest-Gnome: I think you also need to understand just how many wealthy people there are out there, in the two tier society we have many can drop £10k like it's nothing.

Why does this make you mad and what does it have to do with your life choices and why you ride an upgraded 2013 bike, that is completely irrelevant, especially as if people stopped buying new where would you get your used bikes from?

Go get upset about your government and the way society screws the masses and gives ever more to the rich, don't get mad because a business produces a product you don't need that you can't afford.
  • + 2
 Mondraker has been a pioneer in making long bikes, this gives a lot of stability and confidence in big jumps and technical trails. However, it requires a period of adaptation for switchbacks and requires moving on the bike. It would be nice to see some premium details in the XR model, 2018 XR has Guide RS Brakes. The bike pedal very well for its 160mm of travel and open the steering angle to 65 lower the BB but for most endure races 66 is enough
  • + 2
 Love mine. I run 170mm forks and have experimented with 180mm and a 1 degree headset adjustment, made it awesome for really steep fun in the Alps but not so much for local trail and jump lines. Went back to 170mm and normal headset. Ohlins coil in the rear took it to a whole new level though!
  • + 2
 10k bike.. bad riders will not be any better anyway, just a bit poorer and pro riders will ride different custom bikes anyway tailored for them about frame geometries and parts. .. For 2000k you can get good bikes, for 3500 really good bikes and parts, for 5000 super bikes with very light and super parts...but for 10k? Just think that you want to gift 5000 extra cash to a brand that you find very nice .
  • + 2
 8.999 euros am i the only person that still erns fuk all or what lol,, all these top bikes i see people on around cannock and all over the place,most people are shite and cant even do a wheely lol , is it just credit central or has everybody had a sneaky pay rise without me knowing???
  • - 4
flag mollow (Nov 7, 2017 at 8:03) (Below Threshold)
 Stop being jealous, I can't do a proper wheelie but I will still lose you in my dust on any given trail you weak mofo
  • + 1
 Already have Foxy and Summum. I understood early on how fantastic this suspension is. One criticism though: the bolt hardware digs a hole in the frame after a few years. Fixed it with epoxy. Even so, because of all the moving parts the frame is even more flexy sideways. The issue might have been resolved on carbon frames. Anyway, the flex is worth it to have superior suspension movement.
  • + 2
 I hoped The Mondraker will get North America price adjusted properly, but yes they didn't. Sadly but I can see same karma as Orbea bikes, I was really looking into purchasing one . R.I.P Mondraker
  • + 1
 Got a good deal for a new basic alu 2017 Dune (2000€) 3 weeks ago.

Mondraker web page asest that variable headset, chainstais and coil shock option is only abailable in carbon frames, but CCDB Coil CS suits in the alloy frame and performs wonderfully.

1'8m and short inseam in medium size, and for me is spot on, cockpit is renthal apex 40mm and fatbar 38mm rise.

Would expect better component choice in a 10k Bike, but they nailed with the frame
  • + 0
 I got a good deal as well. 1,80 with large and I feel it too long sometimes
  • + 3
 Why on earth don't they make the STA steeper in the bigger sizes? It's like they don't even know that different sized people are different.
  • + 1
 Question to other dune owners...
The kinematic is said to be slightly progressive. My feeling is that it is in fact linear.

I'm really small and lightweight (59kgs), my abilities on a bike are below average... But I still had to put three volume reducers in the positive chamber of my shock.

What about your setups?
  • + 1
 Same here, always bottoms out harshly, any higher PSI would screw my sag. Ended up changing out the stock debonair for an x2.
  • + 1
 I'd say it's not linear nor is it very progressive. About the same as trek slash 27,5 by the feel of it.

Three volume spacers won't do too much if you look at the percentages,see p.vitalmtb.com/photos/users/109/slideshows/9020/photos/18349/s1200_slideshow_photo_1434511038.jpg

Spring rate will not scale over big hits, so intead of adding volume spacers, try increasing compression damping a notch. For monarch, it means moar shims or thicker oil.
  • + 1
 slightly progressive, rising rate. Works well with coil and air but like you i had to run full spacers in a Fox Float X2 set at 25% sag and ramp up the compression settings a little to give mid stroke support. The Ohlins coil has more support than the Air did and for bigger drops i can dial in a bit more HSC if needed.....I've had a harsh bottom out at all yet
  • + 1
 I'm running a DVO topaz.
3 bands in the positive chamber, and 25% sag instead of the 30% mondraker recomand.
It's ok for my vosgian trails (really old mountains fully eroded Wink ), and my ridiculous skills.

But 30% sag and a coil shock??
Seems like mondraker's recomandations won't work really well.
And if you want to ride the bike at full enduro pace in the alps, you will need some proper preparation for the shock.
  • + 1
 Yes. Some tokens for the float x and 210 psi air pressure
  • + 1
 $12,000 cdn with the current exchange rate for a bike with mid-range parts. The average median household income for 2015 is $81k. This bike is 15% of what a family/household makes in a year. A new base Hyundai Accent goes for $13,999 cdn.
  • + 2
 Well get a Hyindai Accent then pussy
  • + 1
 As someone who has had a Bird Aeris 145 since the Summer, I read these sorts of reviews with interest. The Bird has a pretty different suspension layout but is definitely in the same overall geometry ballpark. I am enjoying the bike, although it definitely took me a few rides to get used to the long slack feel, coming off a 2013 Zesty. It's mega fast and corners much better than the numbers would imply, the only issue I have is getting the damn front wheel up. I'd love to know what AJ did to compensate, as if I could crack this I think I'd have the perfect setup. Got a 35mm stem and a couple spacers underneath. Considering going to a 30mm stem but not convinced 5mm will change a whole lot...
  • + 2
 Bar height. Get that right and the wheel will come up. What rise bar are you running? Brands like Renthal offer different options - for instance if you have 2 10mm spacers now and a 20mm rise bar (a fairly standard setup, but I'm just guessing), get a 40mm rise bar, that means you can slam, then you still have 20mm of further adjustment to work with. Also, how low does your fork sit? If your fork is wallowing in its travel then that will also lower the bar.
  • + 1
 I did my own Mondraker long slack bike setup with a banshee spitfire (running a large frame rather than medium, longer fork out front, slack chip setting and shorter 26” dropouts with 27.5” wheels). I played with stem lengths quite a bit going from 50mm, to 40mm and finally 32mm. Small changes still make big difference, still hard to get the front end up on the trail (wheeling is fine). Have to just ride more aggressively
  • + 1
 @mattwragg: thanks for the tips. Running a zero rise stem and two 10mm spacers so will look at changing that up. Fork is setup reasonably progressive (Lyrik 160 with 2 tokens) 60psi and I'm 75-80kg geared up, not feeling like it's wallowing but will take note next ride!
  • + 1
 @mattwragg : oh and yeah, running 20mm rise. Swapping my bars to 40mm is cheaper than swapping for a 30mm stem too so will try that first!
  • + 1
 I'm the lucky owner of one of those, I was able to get my hands on a test bike for way less than the catalog price with all the warranties day 0 at my name and even though I absolutely love it, I'm forced to agree that the catalog price is way too expensive for this build.
One could at least expect SRAM Eagle transmission.

Pros:
It inspires great confidence when going downhill and seamlessly digests gnarly sections like it was nothing.
Even though it can be really physical to ride, its geometry makes is pretty forgiving. In my experience some well deserved OTBs were black magically avoided.

It climbs just great, the only "issue" I experienced is that the weight on the front wheel feels a bit light when making U-turns on climbs.
The firm position of the coil is almost useless since Zero suspension makes nothing pump as long as you stay on the saddle !

It looks incredible. One of the most beautiful frames there is.

Small detail: rear mud guard does great job preventing dust and all to get in the damper. I had an older dune and the damper didn't have this luck and often ended up

Cons:
No boost

The HRII exo have nothing to do on this setup, I can't wait for my tires to wear off to mount my Schwalbe super gravity instead, considering how full of punctures is my rear tire, it should happen soon.

I went through a bit of trouble to get the coil settings rights, there are so many possible adjustments, "Sunday mechanics" like me can be overwhelmed by this many possible adjustments:
Low-speed compression
High-speed compression
Low-speed Rebound
High-speed Rebound
Coil spring preload
Now it feels super good but I'm still convinced that it can potentially be like 10 times better...


Mud clearance not fantastic: Spain is not known for terrains with sticky mud and you can feel that ! I live in the south of France so I'm OK on my rocky terrain though !)
  • + 1
 Just tried Danny Harts own Foxy XR 2018 which has gone 400 meters. What an amazing bike. And only £4200 new. Gaah! I want to buy it, but I need to be responsible. The bike weighs 12.7kg, against my 14.5kg Foxy RR 2011. It is not at all as flexy as my 6 year older Foxy and it has aluminum parts at the bearings, unlike Specialized. Amazing. I bet the Dune is also as amazing. Impressed with how fast the development has been in the industry. The 2018 aluminum has a small weight penalty, but I will probably go for that. Carbon has health and environment issues. And is too hard to ride. I like my bikes a little flexy, like a the arrow of a longbow.
  • + 4
 Derailleur and brake lines under BB : discuss.
  • + 2
 Looking at my chipped frame around the BB, I'd say there is not much to discuss. Why do manufacturers still bring out bikes with that solution? I do get that some suspension designs make it difficult to route cables and hoses, but under the BB? Come on industry, you can do better!
  • + 1
 Is the front chainring not the first thing that gets a smack then?
  • + 2
 On my 2011 Slayer. Not a single problem. Wouldn't be my solution, but it works fine.
  • + 2
 @nprace: Yer I gotta second that it was like this on my glory, and being a downhill bike having 8 inches of growth it was very prone but 2 years, never had a problem.
  • + 0
 It looks like both hang slightly lower than the chainring, which can't be a good thing. And if you live in a place where rocks never get thrown up onto the BB, then that's cool and maybe they can take a few impacts before it becomes a problem. But is this literally the best solution, even on the most expensive bikes you can buy? Would you not ask questions if the brake line on a Jeep for e.g. was just hanging down from the underside?
I have chips all over the place around the BB too. I have my own solution, but it probably isn't acceptable to anyone but me...
  • + 0
 @RecklessJack: No, because some wooden branch or some other pointed sh#t can catch cables and destroy them.
  • + 3
 Since this isn't a Specialized nobody will complain about cables under the BB. It doesn't matter in real life, but the Bike Medka likes to complain about that with Specialized because it's a safe thing to call out without risking their access to free demo bikes. The internet repeats this and thus it has become bike law
  • + 0
 @wibblywobbly: What doesn't matter in real life and what has become bike law?
  • + 1
 @RecklessJack: I would think that would be the bash guard...or it should be if you're riding a 170 travel enduro rig.
  • + 1
 Idk. My specialized has cables under the BB and I haven't experienced issues. I've scraped my chainring on rocks many times but still no big scratches on the BB itself, and there's enough slack in the lines that I imagine they'd just get pushed out of the way (toward the chainring) if I did hit something. I suppose you could maybe smash the lines forward of the BB, on the downtube, but even then Spesh has the lines mounted off to the left of centerline. Some people like to complain/worry about it, but IRL I don't think it's much of an issue.
  • + 2
 I had my Foxy over 4 years with the same cable routing under BB & it was never a problem.
Thinking about it:
1) For any rocks, sticks, etc to damage the cables, they would have to enter from the side, but the cranks, pedals & my legs & feet are in the way.
2) As the shock compresses the cables become flush with frame, making 1 even more unlikely.
  • + 1
 Ok, good luck to yous. Just seems counter-intuitive to me.
  • + 3
 If PB is going to be reviewing the top of the line bike, could you at least post the prices of the lower end models?
  • + 0
 Back pain disappeared--so the reviewer's regular ride's size, saddle, or fit is incorrect? Or changing bikes makes your back feel better regardless? Or back pain vanishes when riding a $10k bike for free because your wallet isn't lighter, though it should be? How useful are detailed frame measurements without detailed rider measurements, or at least a comparison to a better known bike? Do I automatically need a steeper seat tube angle if I'm 6' 5", even if I have disproportionately long femurs and slam my cleats all the way forward? A 30mm stem on a 44mm rake fork? Really? 142mm spacing and a 2.3"--what's the tire clearance like, in case it rains while I'm riding my pretty bike? Why should I trust these guys more than Whyte or Transition? How can this review be so different from Vital's 2015 Foxy RR review, also by AJ Barlas, which says almost the opposite in regards to e.g. switchbacks? Is it the same AJ Barlas? Hasn't Cesar Rojo backpedaled on Forward Geometry? Is a downturned saddle nose the symptom of geometronitis? Should I point this out to @PHeller in regards to the photo of his XL Commencal in Buy/Sell? The EOS 6D looks like a pretty nice camera--or is it the light in Squamish?
  • + 2
 Nicest bike outhere to me, no doubt. Also capable, Youn Denaiud just podium it at Vall Nord world cup circuit in a UCI DH race just behind some top World Cup DHers...
  • + 3
 Why no gold plating or diamond encrusting on Pinkbike? I don't come here to look at things my hygienist can afford!
  • + 2
 I love this machine. In the UK It's £7400 but can be picked up for £5900 in certain shops. Still outa my league at that price sadly
  • + 2
 I know it's not the most substantive thing to comment on, but the color coordination's on point - within the bike and with the rider's kit. Very satisfying.
  • + 5
 the dhx2 shock blew?
  • + 1
 @AJ Barlas When you're speaking of the Foxy, you're referring to the 2018 updated version ?
Isn't it weird to have the smaller bike feature more extreme geometry than the pure race missile that is the Dune ?
  • + 2
 Fact is, the current generation Dune has reached American shores nearing the end of its product life cycle, with numbers that, apart for the reach, already start looking outdated. My take is we'll be seeing a next generation frame sometime mid next year. Maybe even as a 29er.
  • + 2
 What's people's experience of the reliability of the carbon dune? I've heard of a lot of issues with the ally ones along with poor and slow support from the manufacturer?
  • + 1
 Had no problems with the carbon quality. But there's this occasional creak that arises from the linkage bolt that keeps on coming loose. the clear coat on their frames arent of the best quality as well ,probably due to poor adhesion to carbon..?
  • + 2
 @cnick: I noticed on mine, that the pearl/ball locking at top of axle bolts did not have enough tolerances to actually lock the axle in place. Some sanding for the tapered part fixed this.

Try removing and re-installing dropouts, it's what fixed mine. I noticed this after I had done complete bearing change and the creaking sound didn't change at all.
  • + 1
 I am riding 2015 Carbon Foxy and no issue with the frame. Changed bearings and headset after this season (incl. super dusty BCBR), but all in all no problem.
  • + 1
 My first frame lasted 5 months. A week later I had a new triangle. After one year and 3 months of use, including a trip to the Alps, bearings have no problem (except the bottom bracket bearings). I recommend replacing the shock nylon caps (8€), lubricate the rear dropouts and take the shafts tight to the torque with threadlocker so that they do not loosen. In summary follow the instructions of the technical sheet: www.mondraker.com/uploads/files/dune-carbon-589dae23692a2-sparepartsn.pdf
  • + 1
 @cnick: Just epoxy that bolt. Epoxy melts with a hot air gun fyi.
  • + 2
 That build for 10k? Ill pass on that Kool Aid. Mondraper is our of their mind......
  • + 1
 'The longer chainstays didn't hold the bike back....' When is a 430-440mm chainstay considered long...especially for a DH oriented frame.
  • + 2
 Was there a gigantic hole in the market for a $10k, 160mm bike, that weighs 32lbs w/pedals?
  • + 1
 "It can comfortably handle the gnarliest trails in the Whistler Bike Park"

Really? I would only want want a DH bike on the gnarliest trails there.
  • + 1
 Too bad it doesn't have the combative contours of a stealth bomber combined with the breathtaking proportions of an Italian sports car.
  • + 1
 It would be nice to see a typical static drive-side photo of the bike. The only picture that comes close is the title shot, which is angled and obscured by the title text.
  • + 3
 This bike doesn’t even have eagle?!?
  • + 2
 "Take this downhill! Oh but the rear shock tends to bottom out on the local trails..." yeah no thank you.
  • + 0
 You can go big in black lines with air spacers on the shock and not worry about bottom out, that's why spacers were invented (one is enough for me)
  • + 2
 @MartinLR: I'm just saying I've got a bike that's 1/5th the price and doesn't bottom out the shock in stock configuration because it was properly engineered is all
  • + 1
 I agree, Bottoming out is unpleasant @heffernw:
  • + 0
 Too high price, poor spec considering cost, and cables hanging under the BB waiting to be yanked off. For $9.5k? NO THANKS! I wonder how long before I see these on the local single track? LoL
  • + 1
 if you're going to show us $10K novelty bikes have some standards!

Where's the custom vinyl wrap???
  • + 2
 They didn't really day how it climbs
  • + 2
 More reviews from this guy!!
  • + 1
 this is what you get instead of that POS www.konaworld.com/process_153_cr_dl_275.cfm
  • + 1
 The shapes that mondraker produces, especially like the headtube, places more of my faith in carbon
  • + 1
 I don't get the issue over price, seems reasnonable to me. A few days of exams, and fillings, bam new bike.
  • + 1
 even the bears on the woods will stare at it
  • + 1
 Please Mondraker make a 29FS.
  • + 1
 maybe 2021. the Podium FS is yet to debut.
  • + 2
 What's wrong with EXO?
  • + 2
 It's apparently not resistant enough for DH/heavier riders.
  • + 1
 Stopped reading after gazed upon the price.
  • + 1
 but does it have threaded BB of those 10 grant?
  • + 1
 It does
  • + 1
 oops
  • + 1
 whats that clicking sound every time the suspension comes up?
  • + 1
 one of the photos got xt cranks and all the others sixc!
  • + 1
 This is the 2017 model, and can be find it today for 6.700.
  • + 1
 Can't believe some bikes are still $10k.
  • + 1
 I’d love to try this bike. Too bad it’s wildly overpriced
  • + 2
 I only ride Boost!
  • + 0
 It doesn't have internal guide tubes for the cables!!?? No no no....lame ultra lame
  • + 0
 If 66 degrees is conservative for an bike like this, what's a progressive head tube angle? Are we into the 50's yet?
  • + 1
 Got some great geometry and lenghts lol
  • + 1
 Needs a steeper seat tube angle. Other than that it is pretty rad.
  • + 1
 Great another high end European bike that can't be found in North America.
  • + 1
 Check the banner on their website. Review is also a press release. Canada's omitted, but there are photos of at least one there directly above the Comments.
  • + 1
 Hello Pinkbike,

How is that Spartan review coming along? Smile
  • + 0
 1220 wheelbase in a size medium? No thanks!
  • + 1
 9.400 USD.....WTF??????
  • + 0
 sexiest frame on the market
  • + 1
 Total rip off
  • - 3
 Rode one at a demo. Was an RR. I wasn’t blown away. The long reach/top tube has been taken too far imo. Didn’t dig it. In fact I’d say it sucked compared to other choices out there.
  • + 4
 In my experience of owning a particularly long bike, they take quite a long time to get used to. It took me a good month before I was even sure I'd made the right choice - I was pretty nervous for a while!
But when you learn to ride it completely differently, they start to come alive and eventually surpass shorter bikes.
Now if I try a mate's "standard" bike, it feels awkward and small
  • + 2
 @IllestT:

I am not convinced that a longer bike surpasses a shorter bike. Different horses for different courses. I think for talller riders like the reviewer, a longer bike will fit them better.

My own experience is that I have a long dh bike and a short trail bike. They’re both great at their intended uses and I don’t feel like one design is better than the other.
  • + 1
 Had a very similar experience to yours, @LCW1. I generally like long top tubes and short stems, but the length of the Foxy I rode made it difficult to weight either end of the bike relative to other rigs. That might be fine if there was an increase in stability, but I found it no more stable at speed than other rigs I’ve owned in recent years (Nukeproof Mega 275, YT Capra, Kona Process 153). I’m sure one could grow accustomed to a Foxy, but my overall take was that the geometry represented some very good ideas taken just a little too far.
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