Motion Instruments Announces 6 Data Analysis Systems

Feb 4, 2020
by Motion Instruments  

MOTION INSTRUMENTS
Bike Setup Insights
The MotionIQ app unlocks the ability to tune suspension, bringing elite bike performance to everyone.


PRESS RELEASE: Motion Instruments

We are a brand focused on providing user-friendly bike suspension data to gain valuable insights and help bikes perform better. Our Motion Instruments systems capture and analyze suspension information anywhere, anytime, without the burden of a laptop or wireless network.

Based out of Redwood City, California, our team of senior engineers enjoys riding mountain bikes and motocross. Together, our team has decades of engineering experience plus countless hours of trail riding and working on bikes. While developing Motion Instruments and MotionIQ, we worked with top athletes around the globe like World Champions Greg Minnaar and Brian Lopes, Cody Kelley, Rae Morrison, Robin Wallner, and Bex Barona as well as numerous bike and suspension brands.

“Today we are launching our product line and I’m really excited to unleash this technology to everyone,” said Founder Robert Przykucki. “We made a conscious decision to release the product only when it was worthy to be in the tent of a World Cup team. We have uncorked something special and this technology will provide value for everyone, on any bike, riding any terrain. We developed this technology with riders of all abilities, starting with Greg Minnaar. We have worked with the best OEMs in the industry and we are incredibly proud of what we’ve built.”

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With the rapid advancement of modern suspension and bike geometry, we determined that the only way to deliver a perfect fit was through comprehensive data analytics, but it had to be simple and easy to use. With our data visualization, riders can potentially better understand the effect of their suspension settings and become more confident in their setup with a rich user experience. With the Motion Instruments system, the science behind bike setup is now in the palm of every riders' hand and available to everyone, not just suspension companies and elite pros.

"MI is a great product for all mountain bikers, not just the racer," says Greg Minnaar. “Developing my V10, I’m constantly trying to find the best suspension setup and quantify what I liked or disliked about the setup. With MotionIQ, I now have data to match the feeling on the bike. Data specific to your bike gives you an unfair advantage. If you want to push boundaries, the science of bike setup needs to be in your toolbox. MotionIQ is the tool you need."

Our system provides numerous features never seen before in suspension analysis systems. First off, Motion Instruments incorporates bike-, rider- and terrain-specific data that utilizes the bike’s geometry and leverage curve. It shows how the wheels are interacting with the terrain in conjunction with the damper shaft motion. It is the only system currently that quantifies bike balance, comparing front and rear bike-to-ground interaction for compression and rebound movement, which is a key element to great handling and stability. It provides in-depth analysis with a complete break down of fork and shock data with the information laid out clearly, highlighting virtual o-ring watermarks for specific trail events, position and velocity histograms, and terrain-specific analysis. It also makes it easy to share and save files using a phone.

We are launching six data analysis systems for use with cross-country, enduro, and downhill bikes. Each system includes everything a rider needs to equip a bike and works in conjunction with the MotionIQ app. Within each system category are two product levels, Pro and Expert. The Pro systems are our highest performing option with the best accuracy, ideal for suspension tuners and engineers looking for the best performance possible. The Expert systems are our best price-performance option with 99% accuracy of the Pro systems, designed for riders wanting to dial in their bikes for any terrain or track.

All Pro and Expert systems work with the MotionIQ app which will record, analyze, and display suspension analytics. With MotionIQ, riders can gain actionable insights that are specific to their bike (geometry and leverage ratio) and the terrain they are riding. The data is available immediately, on the trail, without any dependence on internet connectivity. Currently, the MotionIQ app works with iPhone and iPad and we are planning an Android version in the future.


We offer three MotionIQ app levels: Free, Expert, and Pro. Our free MotionIQ app will deliver unprecedented insights into your fork and shock. If a rider wants to dig deeper into a specific bike, we provide support for most bikes (growing daily) with MotionIQ Expert ($9.99/Month or $99/Year). Users have the ability to see how their wheels are interacting with the terrain versus just looking at damper speeds. Finally, if someone wants deeper insights into bike balance and rich setting comparisons then MotionIQ Pro is available ($29.99/Month or $299/Year). Each package can be purchased on a monthly basis.

Our systems are available at a 25% discount for a limited time during our pre-order sale. We are initiating this pre-order offer to quickly ramp up our manufacturing and our intent is to ship systems within 6-10 weeks of purchase. Unlike a Kickstarter campaign, we have eliminated all of the risk to our customers. With this pre-order, you are not funding development of our products. We have been working on this for 3 years and the system is designed and ready to go into production. We already have many happy paying customers today including several top bicycle and suspension OEMs. You’ll also see our system being used by the Ibis EWS team as well as several World Cup race teams this year.

For more information, go to motioninstruments.com




137 Comments

  • 155 2
 Can’t wait to install these on my Specialized Turbo Levo SL Founders Edition!
  • 44 1
 install on both fork stanchions just because.
  • 4 0
 Yaaaaa buddy ! Got mine the other day!
  • 5 0
 @chyu: Reaching out to see about custom tuning for a bikeyoke sagma saddle
  • 12 1
 I got the same bike but with Trust fork upfront and eleven six out rear can’t wait to see my wife look at our bank account at $20k woohoo
  • 9 3
 @chyu: Bro got a lefty - peasant
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I wonder can I install 2 lefties upfront.
  • 1 0
 @chyu: with two head tubes next to each other - yes! I came up with this idea since I started microdosing that CBD oil with coca leaves extract. Oh maybe I spilled a bit more than I should into the morning coffee...
  • 54 1
 Wow I tought Greg Minnaar was going to die reading that text.
  • 3 65
flag chyu (Feb 4, 2020 at 19:52) (Below Threshold)
 jordie too.
  • 4 0
 "Yeah, Greg, the system is telling us you uh forgot to turn your lockout off before that descent"
Greg:
  • 31 3
 I don't get the backlash here....Yes its pricey, that's undeniable. But this is not a single use, single bike piece of equipment.

I would rather pay this amount to have a tool that will help me set up my suspension to the best of its ability......On numerous bikes in the future. I am unsatisfied with the stock thru-shaft shock on my Slash and have looked into alternatives. X2, Elevensix etc.

I would consider purchasing this to help tune all suspension components on my bike/ wifes bike, friends bike etc rather than just shell out for a new shock each time I buy a bike.

Maybe I'm wrong, but its just the way I see it.

BTW, I am definately a set it and forget type of rider!! But I would like the bike to perform as well as it can. I'm just not a tinkerer. (I wish I was, I just don't have the hours, kids, work and what not)
  • 17 0
 The issue with your application is data logging, if read correctly, will just tell you your existing setup is wrong. From there there are multiple methods and goals to acheive a better setup. What needs to happen to acheive a good setup is a ground up first principles set of calcs to give the rider the correct spring and damper rates. Then to see what work and modifications are needed to acheive those on their current suspension. Unfortunately data logging won't help you do that. It will confirm your setup is right or wrong. It's measuring the outside of the box and has no idea what is going on inside.
  • 1 0
 @Dougal-SC:

Yeah, I was kiind of wondering about that. Suspension is so Friggen subjective, right? Rebound settings for one person is so different to the next. I guess I have not delved right into their product to make the statement I did. I was kind of hoping that it may spit out a recomended setting for a desired response. My bad

Maybe one day someone will get there, but I feel that this is a good starting point.
  • 26 1
 @enis The backlash is due to the fact that it is pinkbike.. The same audience that complains about $1500 forks and $6000 bikes.. You cant win here..
  • 5 0
 @bohns1:

I see your point and actually raise you......

Would this piece of equipment eventually go against the dentist hating expensive bike crowd? If you could make a lesser piece of suspension equipment work better would it then seem viable? Not saying you could elicit the same performance from a $300 fork to a $1200 fork, (I actually have no idea). But, if you could improve the perfoence of a mid range fork to the point that you dont notice it, time and time again, then money well spent??

Look, I ride a bike that surpasses my riding abilities, without a doubt. But, I feel that I ride it hard and put it through its paces to the best of my abilities. Im not afraid to admit that I like nice stuff. And, it does annoy me a little to see a super expensive very nice bike being ridden softly and not often, but hey, thats their choice and they are supporting the trickle down effect.

Also, at a recent visit to my dentist I happen to ask what he rides, kind of expecting the obvious. His response.......a trek fuel ex 8 from a while ago.
  • 3 0
 @enis: It's not like price is any guarantee of performance. Generally more money, sometimes a lot more money, gets you a shinier finish, slightly lighter weight and more adjusters which may or may not work.
  • 2 3
 @enis: look into the shock wiz
  • 1 0
 @Dougal-SC: if you were able to get hold of this much data, would you be able to provide a better custom tune or is it largely irrelevant at your end?

I guess it gives pretty good insight on the as is, but does that inform What people want.
  • 1 0
 @enis: Yes.. If u could get that performance at the lower end then sure.. That is actually what i did when i was on shimano brakes.. The trickle down to slx was equivalent to xtr not all that long before.. When it works out like that its great.. But when u get into the suspension game or i dont see it the same.. Weight penalties are higher and the performance just isnt there om the lower/mid end.. Atleast not for my expectations..

Im with ya tho.. I like nice stuff when it comes to my hobbies and i give up more in other areas of my life to be able to do so.. Took me a very long time in life to be able have the nicer mtb or cycling stuff in general.. So, due to the fact that life is extremely short... Im going to roll with it..
  • 11 3
 @bohns1: I have nothing against $1500 forks or $6000 bikes... but buying a $1000 gadget and THEN having to pay monthly just to use it is pretty ridiculous - unless they need to calculate unknown prime numbers every month just to read the data, there is nothing that justifies the additional $29.99/Month or $299/Year surcharge. It's a pure cash grab.

a "free" version with limited features is nonsense - the data is already there, there's no reason to charge additional fees to use it
  • 6 2
 @f00bar: Totally agree with that.. Once i saw the various monthly payments, left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
  • 3 2
 @f00bar: I absolutely agree w/ you. Subscription fees chap my ass... I hate 'em. Sadly they are here to stay.
  • 22 1
 It really isn't that expensive for what you get.

Imo it's a very reasonably priced tool that would help a privateer get him/herself that extra 5% of speed out of a perfect(ish) suspension set up that, until now, only the pro teams had. You could tune to the track at every race, and get the most out of what you already own. That would barely take 1 season to be worth the money spent.

As others have said, if there was a LBS that was renting out this as a service and had a staff member that knew what they were looking at, and how to make improvements? For say, $200 they set it up - you take it out for a few rides, and after a couple of trips to the trails and shop, you've got a properly tuned bike for your trails?
Imo it'd be the best $200 you spent on your bike.
  • 5 0
 Exactly, tuning services will grow from availability of this.

The system cost isn't high at all, the linear potentiometers from AIM are about $250-280 each depending on stroke length, all the 3D printed components are likely another ~$50 in cost, electrical components are another ~$50, coming to ~$600-650 in parts. Add in software development plus some margin to actually make a viable business and this is right in the ball park.

Subscription for software is the way the world is, period. No one wants to shell out "large" sums for anything these days be it a car or cell phone or game which they can't really afford otherwise. You can't argue that subscription based businesses are a negative thing for consumers, we eat it up. Pay as you go provides access while ensuring quality software that will continue to be developed as well as necessary cash flow to sustain the business. And you're not even required to subscribe for a year!

From a vehicle dynamics engineer who knows what goes into a proper DAQ setup, well done Motion Instruments! I think this will be a great tool for those that have the need/want for it and know how to adjust their bike based on the collected data. I'll likely add one of these to my toolbox this year for setup of my own bikes and my buddies and anyone else that would want to pay for a hour or 2 of use.
  • 20 0
 Hi Folks, Rob here from MI. Before this post rolls off the front page into the PB dustbin, I just wanted to say thanks for all of the comments. The response to this blog has been great. A tiny company like ours consisting of 3 donkeys in a garage doesn’t have a big budget to reach a large audience, so kudos to PinkBike for offering this blog format as a platform for companies like us. This gave us huge exposure and we are grateful. When we started this project, we literally built this for what we wanted as riders. We realize the pricing, etc is a bit of a turnoff for many, but we architected the system as cheaply as we could by leveraging the phone and some off the shelf position sensors (which btw are expensive AF). I live in Silicon Valley and I remember the day I saw the first Tesla Roadster rolling around. It was 130K (US) and it was their battery & electrical drivetrain stuffed into a Lotus. Expensive? Unobtainable? Yes, it wasn’t attainable for me then, and still isn’t to this day. The model 3 is in our range 10 years later. We hit many firsts during this product development. First was getting bluetooth to work as a mesh to handle this data rate. We started this project as a fork sensor only and when we met Greg Minnaar, he said that was crap. BTW, when you create something from nothing, lots of people will tell you it's crap. Listen, learn, and change course. That was a tough pill and put our development back 2 more years to get all of the other things working. Next, working with the bike and suspension OEMs has been amazing. Ibis and Yeti were our first customers and we were thrilled to get their business and work with them. When we flew to CO to meet Yeti, they even paid for my hotel room as a gesture for making the trip out. Our system was far from baked when they bought systems and we worked really hard to make a product for them. What surprised me, was that many of these companies don’t have huge budgets to purchase automotive data telemetry systems. These state of the art systems were 5-10x the cost of ours, and it required a full time engineer just to write software on those platforms to extract signal from the noise. So our product allows small companies, today, to get insights into their bike they never knew were there. I shared data with Adam Krefting at Cushcore early on and showed him with hard data the effects of Cushcore to the handling of a bike. 15% of the compression strokes for a long sustained downhill just disappeared. Since then, we’ve sold many systems to other OEMs and I think they are really appreciative of the system we created. The next milestone we hit was one I said would never happen in a million years. We talked to Specialized and showed them our system. My buddy Mike designs their helmets and got me a meeting with their suspension team and we had a great meeting. Got to meet Mike McAndrews, Bob Hannah's mechanic back in the day and inventor of a lot of suspension tech at specialized. At the time, we didn’t see any traction from that specific meeting, but we kept talking and working together. Now our app, MotionIQ, supports every Specialized curve. For all the trash talked about company A, B, & C, we’ve been super impressed with every company we’ve met along the way. Our technology is niche in the format you see it today, no doubt. For us, this is a start of something that can eventually lead to everyone. This may not be a system you personally purchase today and we get that. However, based on what I’ve seen to date, our system has already had an impact and you’ll be the beneficiary even if you don’t buy one. We’ve witnessed first hand folks changing course into different design avenues based on data generated from our project. To the folks who found us through this blog who purchased systems already, thank you. Some have already shipped to their surprise. We exhausted our stock in the first 3 hours after this post. I had ordered a bunch of parts prior to this blog and those are already exhausted before they even arrive. I had a pro enduro rider at my house today, 23 years old, super talented, but he doesn’t have the budget to buy our system. I gave him the one off my Ibis to borrow to develop his new bike for a few days. If you can’t buy one of our systems today, there will be opportunities to rent one from a qualified suspension tech or bike shop, or borrow one of your friends. Thanks again for the response. It’s a great start for us.
  • 14 0
 Oy, I have to just stop reading the comments here. So disappointing to see the cro-mag hate and ignorance. This is an amazing device, and clearly not for the average rider to purchase for themselves. Even the Shock Wiz, at ~$400 is probably not a wise purchase for the average rider. That's why lots of shops have them for rent. Don't you want your shop to now have this one for rent? I just can't help but wonder what kind of terrible crap happens to some of you in your lives, with such a hair trigger, bitter, and ignorant general viewpoint. Just like the Levo SL comments section. Yea, let's all blurt out, like angry drunk uncle, that it costs $16k, when that's for the Founders Edition that is basically not for the general public. Let's not discuss the $7500 variant which seems like a totally reasonable deal for what you get. I mean, how exhausting to go through life like this. Ahh... I feel better now! :-D
  • 3 0
 I agree. This is certainly not something I would buy right now, but if I was racing I would probably be interested in at least renting it once or twice. As for the monthly subscription, as others have stated, software engineering, marketing, maintenance, server fees... It all adds up quickly. And if someone who works in (x) highly-paid career wants to spend their hard-earned money on this to put on their expensive bike they ride once in a while, who cares. Something people often seem to forget here while expressing their envy, is that high pay also often means working your ass off and not having much free time. Personally, I try to base what I buy on cost divided by number of times I enjoy using it. So, a $5,000 bike better be good for at least 1000 rides with proper maintenance, $5 + maintenance and consumables per ride is a pretty good deal. And of course this number gets better as an item is used more, with a diminishing returns towards the end of its life. Of course, many $5k and more expensive bikes will never be ridden a fraction of this, but who cares?
  • 16 0
 STaaS: Suspension Tuning as a Service. Remember, you heard it here first.
  • 4 0
 Yep. I would gladly pay $100-150 to have someone strap it to my bike, get the data and use it to get a tuning service to optimize my setup. Imagine what Push or Vorsprung could do in customizing with the actual user data.
  • 4 0
 What if they could see your data remotely.. in real time? And send recommendations back before you start the next lap? @carym:
  • 9 0
 @Ehmjaysee: If you have internet access, that already works. We can even automatically push data to a public cloud file systems like Google drive. So you keep your data in a file system, anyone you grant access to that file can get your data. Or text, email, airdrop with a click. We all share data between each other, all the time.
  • 12 0
 It’s only $840. Better give me two
  • 18 0
 Wow look at this poor guy.
  • 10 0
 Even if you don't buy one, this product is good for us mountain bikers. Quality suspension data today means better production suspension tomorrow. This is rad.
  • 3 0
 Bingo!
  • 8 1
 "Your Brain Is Not A Sensor"

Sure it is...just because we lack a vocabulary to describe many experiences doesn't negate how powerful the brain is.
  • 6 0
 Everyones brain is connected to hundreds of sensors. It's interpreting the results that is the issue.
  • 10 0
 Brains are killer at pattern recognition and solving multi-variable problems. But choosing between subjective feeling with no data is tough. Some can do it, many can't. In all cases, there are improvements that can be made. Some changes are significant and not obvious.
  • 8 0
 Loris doesn't lack said vocabulary, and Jordi somehow understands it
  • 2 0
 @lncorgnito: jordi is a god though
  • 13 7
 So let me get this straight. Not only do I have to shell out 800 bucks for the equipment but then on top of that I have to pay a monthly fee to get full access to all of the data the thing I already paid for generates?
  • 43 15
 There is a free version. It gives you a lot of data. If you want more, like being able to analyze your specific bike with a leverage curve specific to that bike, it's 9.99 per month. Use it for a month, then stop. You still have all your data to view. If you want really deep analysis, then the pro version has more capability. Unfortunately, supporting every bike takes someone's time, and it probably won't be you putting in the work. Just wait for the free version that shines unicorn rainbows out of it's horn and smooths out the trail ahead of you.
  • 7 7
 @gus6464 i hear u Gus... That part of it is bs.. No way id pay a monthly for that.. So im out
  • 5 3
 I hate how monthly subscription has become the de facto standard way to market software. Apparently spits out more $$
  • 4 11
flag wildedge586 (Feb 5, 2020 at 11:05) (Below Threshold)
 @MotionInstruments: good luck with that condescending attitude in dealing with possible customers. Pretty professional PR from the school of Leo and Trust...
  • 5 1
 Apps are really expensive to build and maintain. People expect regular app updates with new features and fixes. Nobody wants to pay upfront for apps these days. Paid subscriptions is the only option remaining to keep the lights on.
  • 2 2
 Paying a subscription for something with regularly updated content (eg a streaming app) is fine. However paying a hefty fee for a stand-alone product then having to pay a subscription just to stop the person I bought it from remotely turning off half it's features is not fine. This product went from very exciting to utterly uninteresting as soon as I read that part. No thanks...
  • 2 1
 @wildedge586: My bad. I'll do 50 pushups now to repent.
  • 5 0
 This is awesome and provides some data to regular joes that were never available before, plus the quick analysis of front to back balance is really cool--both Suss My Bike and Shockwiz leave a lot to be desired and this system seems to finally provide information that was once only available with tons of money, a mess of wires and complicated analysis. Now we just need some small sensors and phone?! Not a bad deal to me at all...well done!!!
  • 1 0
 I was considering a Shockwiz, what do you think is missing?
  • 5 0
 Kudos for making WC race team data accessible to smaller bike brands and even people. This is only going to make all bikes better. Suggest everyone go listen to the @motioninstrumemts podcast. Listen to how this tech affected 1 bike brands entire approach to OEM tunes on their 2020 bikes. I’m really excited to see how this affects our suspension for years to come.
  • 5 0
 I have over 1000 runs on this system, and tested numerous shocks and tunes from many different makers. The Motion Instruments system vastly changed my mountain bike experience (for the better). All you need is to set some target metrics (max rebound axle speed, max compression axle speed), dial in some front/rear balance (with both air springs and damper adjustments) and your bike will ride SO MUCH BETTER. It's not a subtle change! I was going much faster and with better control and I had to learn my trails all over again: Different braking points, higher straightaway speeds so the corners come at you A LOT sooner, and whole new lines are opened up because you're looking at the trail differently. I mean, mountain biking is always fun, but this has turned my riding up to a whole new level and I'm having a blast. Can't recommend it enough.
  • 4 0
 How did you guys arrive at 200Hz for linear travel position data sampling rate? Was it an application specific driven value or hardware/wireless protocol driven value?

Not challenging the number, just genuinely curious! Thanks and I like the modular approach to this system!
  • 16 0
 Application specific. We have 1000 Hz sampling working as a debug feature. We thought we needed higher sampling rate early on but it turns out our sampling algorithm was not great. A crapload of dyno testing later, we got 200 Hz working the way it should and it was very accurate. We even had a well respected bike company do some extended dyno testing for a 1 hour run to see how far our signals would drift apart between 2 sensors measuring the same up.down movement. We were only off 40 uSec (micro seconds) in an hour. Our accuracy was as accurate as the position sensors we use. I've seen DH rear wheel speeds up to 8 m/s, but that is measuring the shock which is ~1/3 the speed of the axle. Forks on DH are between 5500 - 7500 mm/s. 200 Hz is fine. To get a nice 200 Hz signal, we sample over 6K Hz. For the 1000, >30K samples/sec. Dirt bikes are similar to DH. Street bikes, are dog slow speeds compared to the hell of MTB. Sorry for the long answer. On the wireless side, we can light up way more data throughput. Everyone said we'd hit a wall with BLE, it wasn't a problem. Just tuning it to be reliable, no dropped packets, and signal synchronization over a long duration... We did it, it can be done, you don't need wires. And the phone scales to double digit devices at line rate.
  • 4 0
 @MotionInstruments: That's some really awesome background info! Thanks for the deep dive. I've done a good bit of work in wireless sensor design and application studies and this type of stuff always crosses my mind so it was nice to hear some more of the back story.

Also cool to hear your experience with BLE - some of the more commercial work I've done is with ANT and honestly not very impressed - but we suffered vendor lock-in with that project.

Best of luck - I really think you guys are doing the right thing with the modular architecture - I can see future sensors being added rather easily now if you guys cross into other industries like GP/MX/Enduro/Rally/Indy etc!
  • 10 2
 @mobilechernobyl: We sold 2 systems to motorcycle (rally and dirt bike) guys today. They don't bitch and I don't even have to market to them, go figure. Same software that analyzes a MTB works on a dirt bike. Speaking of vendor lock in hell, we started the project with TI and it was awful. We ported to Nordic, but it's been rainbows and unicorns ever since. We chose BLE because of adoption and growth rate of end device support. The phone side seems to lag 12 months of device support, but it was the right choice.
  • 4 0
 This type of product is long overdue. I've watched a bunch of guys buy new shocks and forks because they "felt like" it would make such a huge improvement. But these guys don't know anything about tuning and are riding around with whatever happened to be dialed in by chance and a little sag measurement. Ridiculous waste of similar dollars. I watch all the videos, read all the articles and what I know is how to get to an ok base setting at best. I would never know that I need more or less rebound as opposed to air or compression by how some bit of chunder feels. I can't wait!
  • 5 0
 Can't wait til these are ubiquitous, light, and cheap. Bring on the early adopters, help us all afford the next gen MTB-DAS!
  • 5 0
 Exactly! Next gen systems will happen IF we see good demand for the pro-sumer market.
  • 4 1
 I am looking to purchase a suspension data acquisition system as an individual user, but it as of right now it won't be this one. I really dislike all of this subscription stuff that is going on everywhere now. I would much rather pay a big hunk of cash up front and own the software for life. Even if the software were 1000 bucks upfront you would come out ahead in just over 3 years. All of these subscriptions services for so many things now that are "a small amount of dollars" each month add up, and sucks a lot more money out of you than you might realize. I do however understand that updating the software in general and with new bikes and leverage curves and such does take some effort and incurs a cost. I can see the value in the subscription for a suspension tuning outfit that sees everything, but not for an individual that wants to access to all of the data. I don't ride a different bike every month so I don't need updates that frequently. I think a good value proposition for individuals would be to have the option to outright buy the pro software for a fixed price, with the option to purchase data (and general software updates) on specific bikes (such as the ones you currently own) on an as needed basis.
  • 17 0
 DM me, I'll light you up with a PB only forever pro package for 1000 bucks, and you'll never have to go the the app store, and you'll never have to pay again.
  • 2 1
 In the video the guy says "wouldn't you just like to get what you have now working at its best?", yes I would like that but not at the cost of what you are essentially telling us not to buy. Maybe if it was I don't know $700 less expensive so we can actually make our current shock the best version of itself, I get they need to make a profit but you can either sell a few at over $1,000 from the prices on there website or you can make the hardware cheap and the app like $50.
  • 11 1
 Sometimes buying a new shock still won't solve the problems if its not tuned right. And this has the capability for shops to have it as a service too
  • 17 0
 Honestly, that is a fair comment and we agree not everyone will be able to afford this system. We shrunk out a ton of cost of this system. If you look at the others, they have a stand alone data logger, laptop, etc. Their system is 5x the cost of ours. In some cases, more than 5x. A ton of folks have expressed interest in renting out our systems so maybe that will be an option and we have a solid plan to address this segment of the market. Depending on your weight/speed, etc, you may need work done to your fork or shock. It's definitely a time saver when you have specific goals for your re-valve, vs. just trusting "the guy" who claims to know exactly what your experiencing.
  • 8 0
 @MotionInstruments: Can confirm. I've worked with hardware engineers and making (and then manufacturing) these types of systems is super complex and really expensive. Especially to achieve a high level of accuracy, reliability, speed and refinement. Yeah $700 is a hunk of cash but for what it does it's an amazing deal. I think Shockwiz is going for around $400 and isn't even in the same ballpark as this system. Not. Even. Close.
  • 7 0
 @MotionInstruments: Yeah I'd just get this into the shops and have some model where they can make money on it renting and providing services around it. You just sell and support a "Shop Package". Gets the LBS involved to take it up a notch and spares the customer a huge outlay for something they won't use all the time. I'd guess you'll get more sales focusing on the shops and how it helps them make some reoccurring revenue while capturing customers with specialty services.
  • 1 0
 @MotionInstruments: How much overlap is there between XC/Enduro/DH versions? IE, if I have bike with 140mm, 170mm and 200mm of travel am I looking at having to buy 3 different versions?
  • 2 0
 @djjohnr: So the DH Expert will definitely not fit on an Enduro or XC bike. The DH Pro version can be used on Enduro bikes, but not forks under 160mm. The XC version is just an Enduro with the rear sensor removed. You could get a DH pro and it will work for both Enduro and DH, but you'd need an Enduro fork mounting kit. For the XC bike, a 200mm fork tracer will be fine.
  • 2 0
 @djjohnr: You can do just about everything with a 200mm fork sensor and 100mm shock sensor but it takes more creativity in the mounting of them (especially fitting a vertical shock). Adding just a 75mm rear unit will be even more applicable and much easier (these are the 3 I have, mostly do trail bikes so far) to fit, but you wouldn't need more than 2 f+r kits to be able to do everything from 100 to 200mm travel bikes
  • 2 0
 @MotionInstruments: Not to mention the literal YEARS it takes to learn how to use the bigger systems properly, on top of the initial outlay
  • 5 0
 I think it's unrealistic to think that you can get quality data, a reliable well thought out system and a clear, stable and easy to use app for next to nothing. Sure, it'd be great but you see what lower costs get you-Suss My Bike and Shock Wiz. They can be helpful but this system is a much, much different animal.
  • 3 0
 So is this going to suggest how to tune or am I going to have the same expression as Minnaar which looks like "What the F am I looking at?
  • 4 0
 there will be the possibility of having the data analysed for you if needed
  • 7 0
 It's true, that's what he was saying. We all scratched our heads. When that pic was taken, we had position and velocity histograms working front and rear, dubious sampling, and no bike balance data. It was like 6 months into the project. There weren't any books we could read about MTB suspension setup, so yeah, WTF all day long. To answer your question, you will be overwhelmed by the data upon first glance. But the data is not complicated once you understand what is being presented. And this system is designed to be collaborative. With a click, anyone, anywhere can see your data, where you rode, and what you did. We set up a reddit page for users to interact as well.
  • 8 3
 when is android support coming? Not everyone wants to Apple ecosystem
  • 1 0
 If you have seen other systems it feels like this one is missing a sensor? The general positioning sensor for the bike, to see what angle the bike has and what kinds of shocks it gets. Like it can give you feedback if the bike stays level when the suspension works, or if it tips forward/back or if it takes too much hits when the suspension should take those hits.
  • 3 0
 Getting useful pitch/roll/yaw data From a gyroscope can be difficult and adds another layer of confusion that may not be helping. The transceivers do have accelerometers built in though so you get vibration measurement at the front end only which is the important thing 99% of people want to know as it relates to comfort. If a rider is reporting “kicking” from either end for example you will see it in the rest of the data somewhere. This is an “all killer no filler” system, I also own a full on AIM set up with 3-axis accelerometer and gyroscope among a lot of other things but haven’t found myself wishing for more from MI yet
  • 2 0
 The sensor has a 6 axis gyro/accelerometer. We are only using 1 axis of motion to analyze upward force the rider is feeling on the shock. When we ported to Nordic, the #1 reason was to increase the CPU memory footprint so we could run the software to drive this part. This software was larger than the entire memory footprint offered in our first TI processor. Engineering fail on our part for not realizing this early on. Short answer, we'll have this as a feature to analyze lean angle. So you can isolate cornering and suspension data, and ignore everything else. Lots of other use cases for lighting the full potential for this chip. Downside, battery life will drop 33%, but you'll be able to see how flat your tabletop is off a jump.
  • 1 0
 @MotionInstruments, Hey Rob. Great product and I have read though your full setup guide(tons of good info). One question for you, bike balance, packing, and braking forces. Do test runs with a lot of hard breaking screw up bike balance or make it harder to setup the bike?
  • 2 0
 Hard braking in braking bumps is sort of frame dependent. Some bikes "brake jack" and we have seen this. It looks like a short stroked high frequency mess. Our analysis is more macro, but you can easily isolate sections of trail. The handlebar button is meant to drop pins so you can isolate the data analysis between those 2 pins. Another trick is uploading your run from our app to strava. Once you do this, we download all of the strava segments. Then you can just pick a segment to analyze. The data is really terrain dependent so you want to make sure you ignore junk data. We've tried to make this easy, but it can always be simpler.
  • 2 0
 You will see a change in the data from track to track, eg steeper runs will use more fork travel and change the average position value at each end. The key is to get a mix of trails you ride often and set up a balance between them.

On a side note, look up “mtb brake power meter” he is developing a tool to measure braking power directly, I’ve done a day of testing with him to look at how the 2 interact and it is another cool tool that will be coming online in the future
  • 2 0
 Shockwiz made me able to recognize properly performing suspension much better once it got there. It helped me get there and now I have a better sense of how suspension should feel. But of course it has many limitations.
  • 1 0
 One thing that wasn't clear to me... Does the system advise the necessary changes to optimise your suspension?

Data are useless without the knowledge of what to with them. I got the impression that it's just acquisition and not advice and guidance.
  • 1 0
 I hope you think we're more than "data acquisition". We got that working in the first 30 days. Data is just squiggly lines. What we did was quantify how the bike interacts with the earth by analyzing axle motion. We specifically didn't put in recommendations because everyone rides their bike differently. Some off the front, some more on the rear (Jeff Kendall-Weed). So you want a bike that supports you based on how you ride. By looking at the data, you'll see where you need the bike to support you more. Think of our system as giving you a readout of how your bike is interacting on your trails at your speeds. It would be a stretch to think we could give you settings. We say fix what's broken first, then dive into the minor adjustments. We had a pro enduro rider test with our system yesterday, and it was obvious what needed to be fixed first (correct preload and spacers). No knobs were turned and just getting this balanced made a huge difference for him. I wasn't there, he was making adjustments on his own
  • 4 0
 why don't newly posted articles appear at the top of the page?
  • 16 3
 Maybe these guys didn’t pay as much?
  • 4 0
 @Lololmalol: ooooo good thinking
  • 3 0
 Is raw data going to be available or are they expecting everyone to rely completely on their phone for viewing and analysis?
  • 2 0
 Raw data is supported.
  • 3 2
 @Ehmjaysee: Yes raw data is available but for an extra 30 bucks per month which is bonkers.
  • 1 0
 @gus6464: Curious what kinds of things would you do with the raw data?
  • 1 0
 @Ehmjaysee: Import it to view on my PC instead of my phone for example.
  • 3 0
 Buy a system, I'll give you free raw data. We never thought people would want this in the free version. It's more of an engineering feature. And if you're designing a bike and using our stuff to test, our software prices probably wont' break the bank. Guess we were wrong.
  • 4 0
 does it measure my disappointment
  • 4 0
 Ill wait for the Kashima version.
  • 1 1
 I must be honest, even if I don't consider the price, I don't want check my phone after a ride... If something is wrong with my forks I try to adjust "with the ears". After I ride... I want just another fun ride. Keep it easy boys.
  • 1 1
 so either i'm blind or an idiot, or both... but I can''t seem to find out if one needs to have their phone with them on the ride to record the data, or does it get saved to the "transponder" from which it gets downloaded after the ride?
  • 1 0
 Good question, you ride with the phone and stream data while riding. This way you get instant results when you pull out your phone.
  • 3 0
 There is now a business opportunity for bike parks and shops! Or anyone who wants to provide the service.
  • 4 0
 exactly where my head went too
  • 2 0
 This is super exciting. It's got to lead to some improvements in bike design, at a minimum. I'd like to get my hands on a demo, but it's def on my wish list.
  • 3 0
 Let the bike-nerding begin!
  • 3 0
 Is this better any better then shockwiz? How/why?
  • 3 0
 This gives you all the raw data so you can see exactly how much travel you are using, how fast it is travelling and how the front and rear compare to each other (along with MUCH more). So you can make hugely informed decisions about tuning rather than just "make harder" or "make softer"
  • 3 0
 Works for coil, tells you more stuff
  • 4 0
 It's reading actual shock/fork position instead of trying to guess it based off air pressure (which the shockwiz does). So it's a far better but more intensive result.
  • 6 0
 Shockwiz is not directly measuring displacement or rate of displacement, it uses changes in air pressure and tries (probably reasonably successfully) to map those changes to displacement.

That means it doesn't work for coils or multi-chamber air springs (e.g. Manitou Mezzer, Trek DRCV).
  • 2 0
 So many differences, maybe the biggest is single shock vs full bike analysis which lets you tune front/rear balance.
  • 3 0
 @Connorszabo they beat us to it...
  • 1 0
 @MotionInstruments spec sheet for the transmitters says they include a 6-axis MPU for measuring lean angle. Can you elaborate on this?

Exciting product for sure!
  • 2 0
 Yes, there is an embedded 6 axis gyro/accelerometer on every circuit board. We always intended to turn on the gyro on this part but it required a lot of memory. When we updated our processor, we now have the necessary footprint to run the software to get real time lean angles. In a future release, we'll put out an update for the firmware to light this up. Then we'll have a bunch analytics to show you how you ride your bike in corners, etc. It's more of a fun fact. How flat was that tabletop jump? Flat or 10 degrees... The gyro knows...
  • 2 0
 I don't need data acquisition to confirm that i'm more of a crappy rider than I already think!
  • 1 2
 As a shop owner I'm looking at this with amusement. I think it'll tell most people more than they can really understand for themselves and lead them to fiddle and fart around forever trying to get a device to tell them that their bike is perfectly set up. The subscription model is a nice touch. Keep 'em spending....
  • 2 1
 No android app (yet) kinda sucks balls. Might need to use my daughters shit phone.
  • 1 1
 The sussmybike kit will be more than enough for 99% of people that want to go down that route. you can rent one for next to nothing.
  • 1 3
 ... will it tell me the bike makes my butt look big?

Really people, first we take a poll that shows most PBers are professional mechanics, now we’re saying we can’t set up our suspension without some fancy goo gag.
  • 2 0
 More puzzling to come !
  • 1 4
 I don’t get it. Another phone app that tells you what your bike is doing. There’s far much more going on than just watching your suspension going up and down. On top of that the calculation between the linear pot measured at the rear damper in relation to the fork, makes it almost impossible to understand what a rear balance is. Stendec data is really the only system out there that can balance out all the parameters that you would need to analyse. Check out the vital article.
m.vitalmtb.com/features/Can-Data-Acquisition-Make-You-a-Better-Rider-We-Work-with-Stendecs-Dave-Garland-to-Find-Out,2732 Ton of Teams are on Stendec data now.
You can’t even tell where you are on the track (gps isn’t accurate enough).
  • 3 0
 Yeah but have you seen how much the stranded one costs? That one is targeted purely at race teams
  • 5 0
 Your claim about the way we analyze balance is false. We measure the shock (or anything that moves) and calculate rear wheel up/down motion. We then analyze balance in compression and rebound for stroke length and depth of travel. We don't have a TON World Cup teams, but we are working with a couple ourselves: Trek, Scott, Santa Cruz, Mondraker. Price-performance, our system stands alone.
  • 1 0
 @Thundercaat Why all the hate? Just because you race at the highest level and have access to Stendecs does not mean that this is not a tool that can be used effectively. Sure they do not have brake sensors and a few other features of Stendec, but clearly linear pots are used by many of the top teams(Loic...cough cough).

This is a system to get your suspension dialed in and should help out many riders who are stuck making guesses.
  • 1 0
 @birdman2447: I don't think he was hating. But I think there is confusion on what we are really doing vs. what the perception is. Just because we measure the shock and fork, doesn't mean we are balancing a bike based on what the damper is doing. For each bike, we have a bike file that has the bike geometry and leverage curve. So we calculate vertical motion of the front and rear axle, then we compare speeds for compression and rebound. The measurement of a fork or shock motion is just a method to get there. On GM's bike, you'll see we measure the top tube rotating link, but we have a curve provided by SC specific to his bike parts. It just makes it easier for him to take his shock off, which he does like a million times.
  • 1 0
 @MotionInstruments: Will this fit non-DH santa cruz bikes with the lower mounted shock?
  • 1 0
 @jdang307: Those are challenging bikes. Send me a note at rob@motioninstruments.com. I need to know which bike and if it's an air or coil shock. Also, send a few pics of the shock and how moves through the frame.
  • 1 1
 I was excited until I saw the price.
  • 1 1
 Shock-wizard seems more practical
  • 2 1
 This is for nerds
  • 3 0
 Nothing wrong with being a nerd!
  • 2 0
 Sure, I'm a nerd and would love one. And I actually own a Shock Wiz. Thing actually made a difference. While my suspension was pretty dialed due to my 30+ years of experience, the tweaks it suggested made an actual and noticeable difference. Biggest change was adding more volume spacers. But this mega shock gizmotronic overthruster is actually for shops to rent to nerds. :-D
  • 2 0
 @Chuckolicious: I'd like to see before and after (and simultaneous) data while using a Shockwiz to tune suspension. The stuff real nerds dream of...
  • 2 0
 @Chuckolicious: Re: Rental, soon.
  • 2 0
 Yes, built by nerds for curious nerds.
  • 2 2
 How much does it cost!??

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