New Motors, Derailleurs, & Yetis: EWS Crans-Montana 2022
Richie Rude is aboard what appears to be a revised version of the current SB150 at Crans-Montana, with changes to the swingarm, bottom bracket area, upper suspension linkage, forward shock mount, and front end that all set it apart from the current production model. Starting at the back, the shift cable now exits in a different spot (pictured below), the swingarm sports slightly different tube shapes, and the top rocker link is now captive in the front triangle whereas it pivots on the outside of the production SB150.
There's also much more frame volume near the bottom bracket and what could be a door on the underside of the downtube guard that points toward a frame storage compartment on the new bike. Maybe. The downtube around the bottom bracket area also doesn't look to extend as low as on the previous model, which should provide some extra ground clearance.
With the EWS this week and the EWS-E event last weekend, there are plenty of interesting things to see, including another look at what seems to be SRAM's eMTB motor that we've been predicting for a least a few years. This time around it's on Elliot Heap's raw Nukeproof Megawatt, with the 170mm-travel frame being modified versus the production version that comes with a Shimano EP8 motor and battery. Other things to note include a different set of chainstays, a display integrated into the toptube (not pictured), and rumours that the eMTB-specific derailleur is wired to the same battery that powers the motor.
More new-ness from SRAM with another look at their unreleased direct-mount derailleur and drivetrain that we first saw back in August at the Les Gets World Cup. This time around it's being used on EWS-E winner Yannick Pontal's bike rather than a cross-country rig, and while the mud is doing a good job of making it hard to tell, it appears to be shaped differently from that earlier version. Looking from the rear (below) shows how much additional support the two-sided direct-mount should provide versus a traditional hanger, as well as how it protrudes less from the frame for more clearance.
Stay tuned for more tech from EWS Crans Montana.
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Green and purple SB420 is what I’m waiting for
SB120 yes please. With my Stumpjumper’s geometry… I’m all game!
Just the smaller bearings wore out prematurely.
Like myself, I own 3 of them, and am not a dentist..... just save my pennies.
What happens when on harder impact that breaks or bends the hanger now with big direct hanger in the future? Something should be "the weak link" and I'd rather break $15 hanger than $600 derailleur
Talking of Hone and Saint, both didn't rely on the hanger anyway as they were fixed to the axle. I still have a 2007 Saint mech (which isn't rapid rise, just the "proper" cable version), they take a beating. Hone was fixed to the hub axle (no thru axle for Hone) but that was pretty easy to replace too if needed. I still think the axle mounted rear mechs were the best solution.
Im all for it!
Ahh, to be young and naive. And not spent my life working in the bike industry.
Also: *cough* Juicy brakes *cough*
With 12 speed shifting and huge cassette the derailleur manufacturers have pigeon holed themselves into a situation where they have to have a stiff hanger to have accurate shifting, especially with Shimano and their reduced cable pull. It's nice that they don't bend easily but the trade-off is you have to replace the more expensive derailleur rather than a hanger. There's no great solution with exposed rear derailleurs.
The shop got REAL lucky - Specialized was somehow convinced to warranty the seat stays.
What on earth was SRAM thinking.
So good that you’re here with your internet knowledge, and ability to peer into a crystal ball to foresee the future, and know that this is a bad idea.
Friggin SRAM, and all their knowledge of cycling drivetrain systems, it’s really too bad they don’t put it to good use, and Gigi back to making super reliable 3x9spd systems
With all this Mech and elec tech know how, along with the development, testing, and manufacturing facilities I’m sure your version of a better mtb drivetrain is just on the horizon.
Let me know when it’s available, and I’ll fork out the money to support you.
Flat billed cap and all…..
The buddy I was riding with was a shop mechanic. He took a look and examined the derailleur settings and immediately identified what happened. The shop that did the work took a look and agreed and made it right.
As everyone knows, shifting a bike under no load and in a bike stand is marginally different set of dynamics than when the bike is being ridden and watts + resistance are being applied to the system. You've never had a bike that shifted ok in the stand, but had some issues actually being ridden?
But I get it, we're all exhausted by the product development cadence that Apple has sensitized us to with new iPhones every two years. In the bike business, Shimano started a 3-year cadence decades ago. SRAM went to a 3-year cadence about 3-4 years ago (they had no set cadence before that), but because of the pandemic it's actually been 4-years. So, in this specific example, SRAM has held back on its new product launch cadence.
I guess my original comment was more aimed at @onawalk since he insinuated that the only reason a company like SRAM would release a product is the engineering behind it. While this is certainly ONE reason, another huge reason is that SRAM releases a product that they think they can sell. They wouldn't release a fantastically engineered product if it wouldn't sell. They would, however, release a product that might not be engineered as well as it should be as long as they know they can sell it.
When a new product comes out most brands are quick to make sure that it's an option. They don't want to get left in the dust or be seen as not "with the times". I haven't seen a single FOX live valve equipped bike in the flesh, but almost every MTB I've come into contact with since its release has been made compatible. I'm sure this new derailleur is going to be an improvement, but it's disingenuous to imply that the only reason it is being released is the engineering behind it and that Marketing didn't see this as an opportunity to release something new and flashy that people will fall over to make sure is on their newest bikes.
I think we can all agree the adoption of the UDH was, and is a good thing. The fact that SRAM likely had a larger plan shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. None of us have any idea is it’s bad or worse, but the pontificating and end of world ideas is pretty wild from a niche group of mountain bikers.
Ride your bike, enjoy that it’s so much better than it was 20 or even 10 years ago, and have a good time.
I have decided not to buy AXS for my personal bikes.
I only was addressing your sarcastic comment. No end of times doomsday-ing here.
I know what SRAM is up to. They are quite clever. It's a masterful strategy to release UDH and then make a derailleur that is compatible with the UDH interface. Brilliant. But it's not going to be a perfect solution and there are always pros and cons to everything. Sometimes we (consumers) are just forced to accepts the cons to a system that SRAM has designed, however beneficial the pros are. I.E. DOT fluid, Reverb dropper posts, etc.
You make it sound like there isn’t a plethora of other choices out there.
No one is forcing you, or anyone else to do or buy anything. You’re overwhelmed with choice and make it seem as SRAM has some devious mastermind strategy.
Here’s the thing, said company believes in a path, product or strategy. They work to develop, test, produce such thing. We as consumers get to decide if we want such thing, easy peasy.
You, and for the larger part all of us, have no idea what SRAM is working on. You’re simply putting the pieces together now, after they have been seen in the full view of the public. None of us have any idea, we are just speculating like a bunch of kids about cool bike stuff.
What’s the issue with Dot fluid, you’re some how not a fan of one of the most popular braking fluids used across multiple forms of transportation for decades?
Lots of choice out there, just use something different….
I certainly didn’t insinuate anything of the sort, you just somehow gleaned that from my comments to make your own comment. Of course SRAM is good at selling stuff, it would be a pretty poor business model if they were t good at selling things. Willing to bet they have multiple different marketing departments to be good at selling stuff (sarcasm)
Selling stuff allows them to continue to provide money for R&D, which gives them something to sell, which provides money for R&D, which…..you see the circle right?
Not sure why we act like it’s a terrible thing that companies try to sell things, seems fairly important to me…
I guess I just feel like the original comment has some truth to it. The basic message I got out of it was that sometimes SRAM comes out with a product that they say is better for x and y reason. While it is true, there are often a fair number of reasons that it is not better than the previous product. We have all just accepted each new product they come out with even though there are negative side affects. one example I can quickly think of it the shifting quality going from 11-12 speed and the extra cassette weight as well. or needing to charge batteries for your SRAM equipped road bike since SRAM isn't really making any modern mechanical road drivetrains. Electronic is great, but there are still downsides. Small things, but sometimes it feels like we too willingly believe that every new product is better in every way.
If this all does work out, then great! but we can't pretend that the bike industry hasn't ever had to backpedal after releasing a new product that doesn't perform as well as it said. cough*REVERB*cough
I don’t remember any mention of things always being better with the new release of anything, which you’ve then turned into the entirety of your comment.
It’s similar to having a conversation with a lawyer or politician, you’ve used an assumption that was neither explicitly written or I’m-lied, and made that the focus of your next comment.
The OG comment was how bad this idea of a new der attachment method was terrible, based on absolutely no other info than some spy shots on the inter web.
Somehow in these comments you’ve let us know about your crystal ball knowledge into SRAMs inner workings, and the bike industry as a whole, provided us with the clearly hard fought knowledge that not all new things are 100% perfect, and some off kilter tangent into AXS, and the defining moment that SRAM is in the underhanded business of selling things for money. I don’t believe any of these topics were under any intense debate, but there we have it, clairvoyant insight from one of the cycling industries most knowledgeable PB poster
All meant as sarcasm and in good fun,
But really, this der ha EGR is prolly great, AXS is prolly cool, SRAM prolly has a pile of cool, dedicated engineers and professionals who make cool shit.
12x1 spd is awesome, and we all bitch too much about non-sense
Not trying to win, so just imagine how internet devastating I could have been if I had been trying! (Insert sarcasm font here)
I’ll collect my medal on my way out, was really hoping for a belt buckle though.
You never did confirm what your issue with Dot fluid was
Maybe the sarcasm is what took this conversation off the rails.
I'm really just a jaded designer at a bike company. I probably just needed to vent when writing those comments.
You’re right, the sarcasm is prolly what sent this whole thing into the weeds, and for that I do apologize.
Quick look at your profile, and are you working with a certain Utah based bike brand? If so, well done all around on the friggin value of the bikes you’re putting out (no sarcasm)
But you should prolly get back to work on this bike
Mullet, 275, and 29 capable
120r/140f travel
Adjustable rear CS 435-445
56mm headsets so we can use HA adjust cups
Horst link, highish pivot, idler equipped
30lbs
Static, starting HA of 65*, with option to go degree either way
76* SA
PF bb, with eccentric cups so it can be adjusted
460 reach…….
probably won't be full 27.5 compatible, but probably mullet. Everything else except the PF BB would be doable.
I get the reluctance to do full 275, but that would be the beauty of the PF bb
Good luck, and keep kicking ass working on what looks to be some sweet bikes
Yeti Style Dept- "NO...BLUE PEPTOBISMOL TIL WE DIE!!!"
The only noticeable detail that the premier media outlet catches…the derailleur cable outlet port is in a different spot.
Groundbreaking work Yeti.
Where is this 300$ coming from?
Greasing the SI is honestly a 15 minute job, very easy to do by just removing 1 bolt.
It's an amazing linkage.
No issues with it at all, or on my other 2 Yeti bikes. And I ride them hard and often.
Most people bitching about infinity switch have never touched it and can barely change a tube, that is my experience.
For a pro level racer in some of the driest conditions in the country, that was about every 8-10 hours. Was it a huge deal? No, because at the time racing and riding was my life and I loved working on my bike. But fast forward a few years to having a real job and a family, I don't want to have to do that to my bike with any degree of frequency.
Now in fairness, I've seen a few accounts over the years of SI sliders wearing out under very heavy use in wet conditions (usually UK riders). But For most of us, including myself on my 4-season-old bike, the SI sliders work as good as new with a bit of grease added once in a while, which is a 15-minute job tops your first time, and closer to 5 minutes once you know what you're doing. Bearing replacements have been needed no more often than any of my past bikes.
I've been riding for 27 years, and wrenched my own bikes since day one (as well as working for two years in a bike shop). There's nothing that stands out about my SB130 as being any more cumbersome to work on than any other bike I've ever owned (other than a very small initial learning curve, of course).
edit: I should also mention that my Yeti wasn't cheap, but there were plenty of bikes with similar specs from some of the biggest and smallest brands that were priced similarly when I was shopping. I think their $$$ reputation is at least partially spurred on by their lack of lower-end models/builds.
Everybody: Yay!
SRAM: behold the direct mount derailleur
Everybody: ...
If Ryan Palmer says it works and lays out the details it can't be bad, right?
You think I should really do it, your AXS is perfect???
I've read a lot of the same comments you've read about GX AXS and it does have me some what worried. But So far so good...
My Girlfriend has new SLX on her bike and it's pretty flawless so far so there is that.
It would be a lot cheaper to just replace your SLX derailleur a with new SLX derailleur along with housing and cable, and maybe shifter? The Sramano solution isn't for everyone, but I'm enjoying the experiment so far. I split time between two bikes, which minimizes wear, and I've only had it on one bike since June and the other for a couple weeks so I've got no long term (year plus) testing... My opinion may be different next Sept?
I have a brand new shifter, housing and cable and it was better but still not good so that's how I discovered that in fact my real problem was the derailleur. I have changed everything so yeah I still gonna buy a new SLX or XT derailleur. I wanted AXS to not have to go once again throught the hassle of Banshee internal routing/foam/rattle more than anything.. lol
That being said, the point of this new "mount" is that its pretty unlikely that force on the derailleur can seriously damage the frame.
www.pinkbike.com/news/sram--universal-derailleur-hanger-udh-eurobike-2019.html
We were told they are back to 2 weeks lead time btw. if you’re looking for something that is not in stock at a dealer.
If it rides better than the old one then they are on to an (expensive) winner. Sb150 (and 130 and 140 for that matter) are amazing bikes)
Regardless of the travel imbalance issue, you still have a 150mm Enduro, a 130mm Trail/All Mountain, as well as a 100mm (recently 115mm) Downcountry bike. All of which are on the light side of travel for thier respective class.
Just saying IMO they could use more rear travel… geez.
Its the first time i see someone who is sponsered by ergon riding different grips.
But the grips from Richie looks exactly like the ones from burgtec.
You're 100% right, she rode some ODI grips in Val Di Sole
/grump.
www.nytimes.com/2022/09/15/magazine/extraterrestrials-technosignatures.html
Really more of a mid-product cycle tweak - I'd expect a fully new design in 2-3 years. Until then, lots of other innovative (and probably better) frames on the market.
They don't need to change much, because the sb150 is still pretty dialed, several years after launch. I'm personally stoked to see they didn't change a bunch of things for the sake of change.
Yeti's have a specific ride characteristic (firm pedaling, "racey" feeling) and absolutely demand a forward weight bias to be ridden well. I actually think that this design would be particularly well balanced with significantly more suspension travel. You could give this thing 175mm, and it would still be a very capable climber - maybe moreso on technical climbs!
Having owned an SB150, I can tell you that this suspension design would still climb remarkably well with 170 or even 180mm of rear travel - why not pump it up a bit if you're not going to change the underlying kinematics?
I think the SB150 is a bit dated compared to myriad other bikes on offer - and the SB160 appears to be an incremental evolution, rather than the overhaul this bike deserves.