PRESS RELEASE: North Shore BilletIntroducing the North Shore Billet Talon Cranks. We’ve dedicated two years to perfecting this product after it came to life as a personal project on a few of our machinist’s park, enduro, and DJ bikes. After catching the attention of our friends, team riders, and customers in Whistler and beyond, we proudly offer them to you.
To create the best product possible, we worked closely with our team of riders, including Yoann Barelli, Max Langille, Ben Wallace, and Milton McConville. Together, we refined the design to improve durability and usability while maintaining the sleek machined finish of the original cranks. After extensive real-world testing, we sent the cranks to EFBE Pruftechnik in Germany for further lab testing. They passed with flying colours, meeting and exceeding their comprehensive EFBE TRI-TEST Gravity standards.
We’re excited to release the Talon cranks to riders everywhere and offer them in various sizes, including new shorter lengths for modern mountain bikes. Precision machined from 7075 T6 aluminum in our Whistler machine shop; the cranks are available in anodized black, clear anodized silver, and our anodized pewter colour.
Features: • Built for Enduro and DH/Freeride and Dirt Jump bike applications
• Three-piece design
• 30mm crank spindle diameter
• Aluminum pre-loader
• Cinch chainring mount
• Four lengths currently available: 155mm, 160mm, 165mm, and 170mm
• Available for 68/73mm and 83mm bottom brackets
• Machined from billet 7075 T6 aluminum in Whistler
• Weight: 670g (170mm w/ 73mm spindle)
• Price: $420 USD
As we produced our Talon cranks, we created a threaded bottom bracket and a tool for installation. This tool can also secure the direct mount chainring and follows Park Tool BBT-79 specifications, making it compatible with various bottom brackets such as SRAM DUB and Race Face.
The North Shore Billet
Talon cranks,
bottom bracket and
tool are now available on our website; several distributors also have stock ready to roll. Head to the site for more information on this exciting new addition to our range.
About North Shore BilletSince 2003, NSB has been making high-quality Canadian-made bicycle components. First located in North Vancouver, we were drawn to Whistler for its diverse riding and small mountain town atmosphere. While being a small company in Whistler has allowed us to stay close to the roots of mountain biking, we strive to keep up with the latest manufacturing technologies and remain globally competitive.
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I do pick forged parts over machined parts 10/10 times if I had the option....
www.hopetech.com/products/drivetrain/cranksets/evo-crankset
www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803512630361.html
If your son is ripping dh tracks, then as far as I know Canfield is probably the best option - they go down to 150mm and are meant for DH use. Unfortunately my bike is super boost so they aren't an option for me
Beyond that it’s just the underlying mentality that if people care about how their bikes look, they’re just rich dentists and not hardcore, brah. People want to be stoked about how their bikes look. So what? It’s fun.
Have a set on my son's bike and they've been great.
Trailcraft
127, 140, 152, 160mm
Hope
155mm
5Dev
135, 145, 155, 160, 165, 170, 175
Spawn Cycles
89, 102, 127mm
Brood Styx Cranks
130, 145, 160mm
Prevelo Heir Cranks
120, 140mm
Suntour
XCT Jr
152, 160mm
Zeron 1-X
152, 160, 170mm
Canfield AM/DH Cranks
150, 155, 160, 165, 170mm
SRAM NX 1x Cranks
155, 160, 175mm
Appleman Bicycles (will also do custom lengths)
100, 135, 145, 155, 165, 175
North Shore Billet Talon
155, 160, 165, 170
Sram GX crankset is objectively the best cost:performance design out there until you need a 2’ breaker bar to remove the arm from the spindle and until you work with the flimsy plastic preloader.
Also, 7075 is a lot stronger than 6061 which is used for typical forged cranks, so presumably makes up some of the difference from a forging. Also, there is so little grain flow in a simple forging like a crankarm that it wouldn’t improve fatigue strength all that much, and introduces potential for forging defects (laps).
Some will like it, some won't.
Should only the people who like it speak up?
I think comments like these are helpful. Trends, marketing and the pressure to fit in are strong forces, and comments that point out the negatives can help balance that out a bit. Also, he's not saying other people should not buy cnc'd parts, he's saying he doesn't get their allure and explains why he thinks it's not a smart buy.
But he’s expressed why, and I’m good with that. I’m glad he’s looking out for all of us.
Price: $420 USD
..... So close, so close.
i HAVE to have these. $420 was the selling point for me.
1) With the low torque pinch bolts, they are sooo much easier to service and remove if needed. No more blowing my knuckles out trying to snap a dub crank bolt loose or having to use the Earth as leverage on other cranks.
2) The bottom brackets are HALF the cost of any 30mm compatible bracket. The RaceFace BB is the cheapest one that I can find and it usually costs around $70-80.......and its garbage. A Shimano XT BBwhatever is $30-40.
Not having to deal with fiddly little preload ring is also nice.
Raceface BBs can be made to last longer, if you fill them with marine grease right from the start. Friend of mine had them fail about every month and after greasing the new one it held up a full season.
Seems to be a sealing issue, which is also why Sram went for a 28.99 spindle, to have the room for some decent seals.
The only drawback of Shimano cranks is that the impact resistance isn't as tough. I have some bent XT cranks but my much more abused Turbine crank would be pretty hard to bend...
On the m9000 series, the preload is the plastic screw that requires the special adapter that comes with Shimano bottom bracket tools, right?
C'Mon small manufacturers-if you're going to make a premium "upgrade" product, make something actually better performing than a mid-priced item from the biggest component maker!!!
Every CNC VMC I buy is really cheap at $150-250k. To build forged cranks at any reasonable scale you need a massive hot forging press that can cost between $500k and $1 million. You need a top/bottom die machined out of H-series steel which is a feat by itself and you need one for literally every length/profile you plan on making because you cannot (or should not) machine down a forged part as it disrupts the grain of the metal which reduces its strength significantly. Each die half will cost between $5 and $10k to manufacture.
Then you still have to have a decent sized milling center or 10 to cut the crank interface, pedal holes, chainring holes/spline and trim the forging seam. Then you have to re heat-treat the crank as the forging process resets the heat treating - bringing aluminum back up to a T5 or T6 heat treatment means a large oven that can heat and cool in programmatic steps up to around 200 degrees C over the course of 8-12 hours. Then you still have to paint or anodize the part.
All told, to be able to make a single style of crank in 3 different lengths (165, 170, 175mm) you are looking at nearly $2 million in equipment and tooling not to mention the cost of leasing space that has the room and power requirements to undertake this all plus forge press operators, CNC operators, surface prep people, anodizers/painters etc. To break even you probably need to sell 20,000 cranks a year that cost as much or more than what Shimano and other large OEMs are making overseas for half the cost.
I think consumers need to come to terms with the fact that if we want locally made shit from people that pay their staff fair wages and contribute to the local economy we have to be ok with owning fewer - but more expensive - items. Or we can just come to terms with the fact that local companies will cater to those of us who care and will spend a premium just to support one-another.
Do you really need to buy a $1mill forge to make cranks, its impossible for you to outsource any of the process?
Hope buy in their forged material - why wouldn't that work? - By this logic, do you also produce your own billet?
Buy the forged blanks in already heat treated and then post machine? Again though you can always outsource heat-treat like anyone in the real world would do.
'Decent size' VMC - nonsense, the smallest fanuc robodrill would be just fine to make cranks on, these are crank arms and chainrings, any VMC has a travel greater than 200mm
You are making one extra step seem very complicated, when its not at all, its just much more effort than calling up the local supplier and ordering some 7075 plate.
But the choice here isn't "cheap parts" or "expensive parts". It's cheaper better made parts vs expensive and inferior parts. Unless only local BC folks are buying your product, you're just as reliant on the global supply chain for your business model, and you're also contributing to the waste that a global supply chain causes.
Finally, I'm also pretty sure that Shimano pays their folks decent wages, and notably decent wages for the Japanese workers (SLX/105 and up stuff is made there). Maybe....juuuuuust maybe crankarms aren't the best application of the passion and expertise you have.
The argument against seems to be that the equipment is expensive but what small manufacturer forges, heat treats, machines and anodises parts all in-house and why would you need to?
And what is the per-part cost of running a single crank through a small VMC? You clearly have zero manufacturing experience. Even with a programmable air vice or swappable pallet you are setting up for each individual crank arm and running all your tool changes for a single part. It makes far more sense to move up to at least a VF2 or better yet Okuma with twin 4th axis indexers and swappable fixtures so you can cut 16-32 cranks on both sides.
That isn't a true statement in terms of reducing strength significantly (in regards to aluminum). It depends on your manufacturing process but aligning the grain structure to account for forging and using robotic compaction on forged/heat treated/machined (in that order) parts will increase your fatigue life by a huge factor. We used to do that at a previous automotive company (although the pressure applied in robotic compaction was a closely guarded secret). Non compacted aluminum saw fatigue life of around 100k cycles where compacted aluminum saw upwards of 1x10^6 (a million) cycles (actual empirical testing).
We were also able to get the yield/ultimate stress of 6061-T6 aluminum up to 50k/55k psi (measured). So machining a forged part does not make it weaker, but it also depends on your process and how much material you are shaving off during machining.
Now is this practical for a mtb application? Probably not, since it would be cost prohibitive.
6 cranks a year in 2023 makes no sense.
An as for outsourcing - we outsource locally, within 50 miles of our factory, how is that not giving locals work and jobs?
The biggest advantage with shorter cranks for me is technical climbing, and generally being able to put in pedal strokes where I otherwise couldn't (both because of the extra clearance, and because the pedal strokes are "quicker"/higher RPM). This includes pedaling on descents. I don't race much, but was upper midpack in expert in the California Enduro Series races I did last year, if that's helpful (sometimes I read strong opinions on the internet and don't know how much to trust them).
The biggest disadvantage I've noticed with the shorter cranks is doing big "pedal kicks" while climbing in places where I only have time for a single kick of the pedals. Bringing it back to the squat example, doing a single pedal kick is like trying to jump as high as possible, but now with short cranks I'm not allowed to use as much of my range of motion. With 145 cranks, I've lost some of that single pedal kick oomph. The extra pedal clearance is awesome, but with 145's it feels like I have more than is necessary, at least with my current BB height. Maybe 145 would be my ideal length with a bike with an even lower BB, but with what I have now I think going back up to 155 will be a good middle ground. I don't see myself willingly going back to 165s, as overall I prefer the 145's.
Hope this helps you decide if you might want to try shorter. Tldr: if you adjust your gearing, the only big difference going to shorter cranks is extra ground clearance and the ability to pedal through rockier terrain. There are some other subtle differences (pedal kicks, impact on perceived seat angle because your pedals are more "under you" in the power stroke, change in dropper height due to bottom of pedal stroke being higher), and you may not need the extra pedal clearance (no matter how much clearance you have, you won't be pedaling through certain sections of trail) so YMMV. For me, at 6'4, with my current bike, I think 155 will be a good middle ground.
How do you know they are inferior? Assumption?
I'll buy Canadian or North American made at a substantial price increase over something made overseas any day.
Short cranks sound like bomb if you're doing fast flow trails/berms etc if you can get a bike with a super low bbh. Techincal climbs too, but the lack of 'oomph' on the ratchety stuff would have me thinking 155-60 more appropriate. I get a lot of pedal strikes on the ups and don't hit the bash guard all that much, so next cranks I'm definitely going shorter.
(Well, actually, all of the above was my experience on 29er - I'm now experimenting with dual 27.5 on current gen Pivot Firebird, which has quite a stupid high BB stock. Dual 27.5 brings the BB down to 330 with my current setup (low flip chip and 180 27.5 fork - I basically have the stock geo but ~26mm lower front and back). Flow trails are so good. Unfortunately chainring strikes have become a problem when riding chunky DH trails, so the BB needs to go back up a bit, which means I may as well go back up in crank length too. My earlier comment was getting real long, so decided not to include all of these extra details. For most people not getting weird with their build, 145 is probably shorter than needed. I think 155 is a sweet spot with current MTB geo and chainring sizes. I've considered getting a cassette with a 9 tooth cog so I can downsize my chainring 2-4 teeth without losing top end but it feels like a bit much).
I don't think a lot of people understand how expensive it would be to set up your own company (as you outlined) specifically to just make quality cranks rather than outsourcing to a larger plant that already has the capacity to fabricate it.
And we make our own product here, so we are a MANUFACTURING company, doing more than just machining - we just have the common sense to outsource anodising, coating and heat treat as you seem to do when you need to get something difficult / precise made….
Which is why I find it odd you took the concept of outsourcing aspects of product production, when it’s what you do yourself.
Shimano does NOT pay the majority of their folks a decent wage until you consider what a decent wage in another country might be. This is why the majority of their manufacturing is done in countries other than Japan. The average factory worker in Malaysia makes about RM 1700 per month. Today's exchange puts $1CAD at about RM 3.4, in other words... that factory worker is making the equivalent of about $500CAD per month. Now the cost of living in Malaysia is signifcantly lower (like 90% lower than what it costs to live in Whistler, BC) so $500 CAD a month before deductions isn't a terrible wage, but don't for an instant think shimano moved most all their manufacturing to other countries in Asia in a bid to pay workers a decent wage.
The whole process of bringing a forging to life is unbelievably expensive even for outsourced parts if it is something like a crank that has real and serious safety considerations. Small things with no real safety implications or that can be ludicrously over-engineered and will work as long as they're dimensionally accurate? Easy. Something where you need to optimize weight, strength and aesthetics? Not so easy.
I'm happy to pay a little extra for something made by a rad company churning well made components out of Canada.
Worth a watch, Makers: North Shore Billet: youtu.be/wwhjsNR2xUE
I am just about to pull the trigger on an order for pewter cranks, bb, chainring, and tool - thanks NSB!
I do like that NSB has totally eschewed the long crank myth. 170mm is the longest they are making. Now if we could get other companies on board in shifting their production runs to shorter (165s are always out of stock), and even more dramatically, get the road bike world to do the same, then my hips and knees would be a lot happier. I can't even pedal my cross bike around a corner with its stupid 172.5 cranks.
"Will these DEFINITELY work with the Rocky Mountain Power play Dyname 4 Motor?
(Spindle length, etc)
Because if so, they will be a mandatory purchase.
Until they offer them in purple, or better 3D violet, then it's "TAKE MY MONEY!!!"
(FWIW, I'm on 165 now and would consider going shorter)
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And they come in purple.
Here is more info on testing: www.efbe.de/tri-test-en.html has more info
I'd be leery about an alum axle (spindle), but I'm sure it's been thoroughly modeled and tested.
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Get some SLX cranks and move on - decent weight, great price, last for a very long time!
most excellent.
www.doombars.com/shop
*subject to personal preference
www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17871323333890877
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