Not a Review: The Moots Womble is More than Just a Boomer Bike

Feb 1, 2021
by Brian Park  


I’m not a tech editor, and this isn’t a review. Other than talking a little smack in the comments, most of my job is meetings, spreadsheets, and making sure Levy stays hydrated. I haven't ridden this bike’s competition enough to make relevant judgements.

That said, I spent several months last year riding Moots’ new Womble trail hardtail, and I’ve got some thoughts.



Moots’ niche in the bike industry is well established. They make gorgeous, shockingly expensive bikes for people who want refined, grown-up rides. Moots says they’re for old souls, not for those chasing geometry trends or podiums.
Moots Womble Details

• Wheel size: 29"
• Frame Material: Titanium
• Travel: 140mm (f)
• Head-Tube Angle: 67.1° (at 25% sag)
• Weight: 27.1lb (size M w/ XT trail pedals, no cage, minimal sealant), 3.9lb frame only (claimed)
• Sizes: S–XL
• Price: $6,999–$9,320 USD (as ridden), $3,750 USD frame only
• Made in the USA
• More Info: moots.com

In other words, they’re for rad dad boomers who have bought into the cult of titanium—folks who appreciate nice things, enjoy the subtle flex (not the material), and are willing to pay for it.

All of that is why we were surprised to see Moots release a new trail hardtail with fairly modern, capable angles last year. Their new Womble is still no hardcore hardtail, but it’s not a glorified gravel bike for Sun Valley fireroads either.

Note: We’ve promised to do more content on the value side of the spectrum in 2021, but this isn't it—please don’t take this story to suggest that $10K hardtail builds should be normal. We agreed to check out the Womble because we're bike dorks and it’s gorgeous, but I just want to acknowledge that this is a wildly expensive bike by any metric.


bigquotesThe Womble wants to be pedalled way up into the mountains. Fast, open, smooth terrain is the bike’s bread and butter. Brian Park





Moots Womble
Love a good 44mm headtube.

Construction and Features

As you’d expect from a frame that costs literally twice my entire motorcycle, the US-made Womble gets a lot of things right. There’s plenty of room for 29 x 2.6 tires, clean external routing (even cleaner with this AXS version that removes the unneeded cable guides), a threaded BB, and some fancy bead blasted, anodized graphics.

As usual from Moots, the toptube and downtube are double butted titanium, but they’ve used a new, larger diameter tubeset on the Womble. Large diameter titanium looks odd to me for some reason, but the aesthetic is very clean. I was riding a size Medium, so the large diameter tubing might look more traditional in the larger sizes.

Also, I love me a good 44mm headtube. It looks good, it’s simple, and it lets you run an angle adjusting headset if you like.
Frame Dimensions

• Head tube: 44mm
• Bottom Bracket: 73mm threaded
• Seatpost: 30.9mm
• Axle spacing: 148 Boost
• Brakes: Post Mount 160 (180mm approved)
• Max tire width: 29 x 2.6
• Bottle capacity: 2 (1 on size S)
• Max chainring: 32t


Moots Womble
No cable guides on this build, but you can get yours with 'em.
Moots Womble
Details, details. But no integrated chainstay protector

When a bike costs this much, I have expectations. The Womble’s build quality is impeccable, the finish is perfect, and most of the details are thoughtfully sorted… But it’s 2021, and I think a hardtail frame that sells for nearly $4K should come with integrated chainstay protection. It’s not a huge deal, but come on Moots, let customers protect that beautiful frame out of the box. Or was I supposed to do an artisanal leather bar-tape wrap on there?

On a more serious note, the maximum 32t chainring may be a dealbreaker for stronger riders and all-mountain bikepacking folks—there's so much range on cassettes these days, I suspect people in flatter places will be spinning out their 32t rings without much trouble. I wonder if there’s another way to design that BB junction, or if maybe a slightly longer chainstay would mitigate the issue. That said, 32t was fine for me and I appreciated the ability to run wider tires with decent clearance.

Moots Womble
Clearance here.
Moots Womble
And also here.





Geometry

Moots Womble geometry

Moots quotes their geometry at 25% fork sag, which makes sense for hardtails since it’s measured in the position you are usually in riding—except that not every brand does it that way, so it’s harder to compare. There are four sizes ranging from 419mm to 505mm reach. The headtube angle is just over a 67° at sag, which is pretty normal for a light trail hardtail these days. BB drop is fairly neutral too at 57mm, and there are 434mm chainstays on all the sizes.

The seat-tube angle at sag is listed at 75.7°, but with its stylishly shaped seat-tube, the actual STA is a good bit slacker than that. Pedaling position was excellent for my ~30” inseam, but people with longer legs may need to push their seats forward a bit.

The Womble is designed around 35mm - 50mm stems. You can run down to a 120mm fork too, but it would make for a steeper headtube angle, longer reach, and lower BB.






Wombling.
RIDING THE
Moots Womble
The Womble is at home on wide open singletrack. Photo by Bob Park.


Loves slow tech.

I was surprised with how confident the Womble was in slow tech. Picking my way down some of North Vancouver's slower, jankier trails, the 140mm Pike did a great job taking care of my garbage line choices, and the back end just kept following along with no complaints.

At home on fast, natural singletrack.

As pleasantly surprising as the bike was on our local trails, it wasn’t until I took the bike to the sweeping high desert singletrack of the Okanagan Valley that it really came into its own.

The Womble wants to be pedalled way up into the mountains. Fast, open, smooth terrain is the bike’s bread and butter. It absolutely loves natural singletrack, and it made me feel like I understood what the bike was all about. It wanted to be pedaled harder than I’m capable of pedaling, and it put a smile on my face every time I took it out.

Isn’t so sure about rougher terrain.

The Womble does get unsettled when the terrain is rough and fast. First of all it’s a hardtail and I haven’t ridden a hardtail regularly in years, so I needed to adjust both my riding style and expectations along the way.

I suspect some of that unsettled feeling is also down to that longish 140mm fork and the fairly neutral headtube angle. While the extra travel is nice at low speeds, hardtails get steeper the deeper you go into the travel, and the Womble did threaten to throw me out the front door while plowing into things at pace.

I’m definitely not advocating that Moots throw a 160mm fork on this bike—I’m not sure the world needs an ultra expensive titanium hardcore hardtail, but maybe that’s just me. I'm also hesitant to insist they slack it out by a few degrees to make it more capable. While I would want it slacker personally, that runs the risk of diminishing some of the things that make the Womble special as it is. I bet the next time they update this bike it gets slacker though, just saying.

Wombling.
About as rad as I get these days... Photo by Bob Park.

Rides solid and feels fast.

Whether it’s the new large diameter titanium tubeset or the stout ENVE wheels, the bike rides stiff. Not harsh, but also not as supple (or whatever) as the titanium evangelists might lead you to expect. Solid. Considering the price and build, it’s not super light at 27 lb, but it still feels fast and wants to be pedaled hard.

Is there something special about titanium? I’m not the person to answer that question—I’m admittedly not attuned to my riding in a way for the differences to be obvious. I suspect that, for me, a few PSI difference in my tires (or a different casing) would make a more noticeable change to ride feel than ti vs steel vs aluminum.

I will say that the feel at the bar of the Womble is muted and confident. Is it carbon wheel or bar magic? Titanium magic? Foam rubber grip magic? 2.6” tire magic? No idea, but it feels great.





Technical Report


The Womble frame is a work of art, and the build matches it well. Moots did an excellent job of catering to the target market and it’s got all the right high performance stuff on it. It's also worth mentioning that the Womble is available in a few slightly less eye-watering spec levels, but they're all very thoughtfully chosen.

Enve cockpit & wheels. For all the flack that Enve gets, I really like the spec choice on the cockpit and wheels. The parts worked well in my time on them and there’s a good brand fit between the two American made companies. It might not be how I’d spec a bike like this, but if you’re spending all the money on a USA frame, it’s not crazy to spend all the money on USA components too.

Vittoria Martello tires. The tires were an interesting choice. My test unit came with 29 x 2.6 Vittoria Martellos, but the stock build is with 29 x 2.5 EXO+ Maxxis Assegais. Both of those tires are aggressive, high volume tires, and neither are featherweights.
Moots Womble

Talking from the bleachers is easy, and product managers have an incredibly hard job. Do you play to a bike’s strengths by installing faster, lightweight tires? Or do you try to make up some capability with bigger, burlier tires? Tough choices, and some media hack like me always finds something to complain about...

The Martellos were excellent on the rough, rooty terrain around Vancouver, and I'm a fan of those 2.5 Assegais I have on another bike. But, if I’d had more time before I sadly had to send the bike back, I’d have been curious to see what swapping the 1100g Martellos for ~820g Barzos (in 29 x 2.6) would do for the bike’s character. For me this bike is still on the light-and-fast side of things, and bogging it down with big meats isn’t the direction I’d have taken it.

Moots Womble
Still science fiction to me.

AXS drivetrain & dropper. Wireless drivetrains are still sci-fi to me. I’m glad Moots aren’t retrogrouches when it comes to spec; just because it’s an “old soul” frame shouldn’t preclude it from having some futuristic tech. I absolutely love the performance of AXS. It may not shift under power quite as well as Shimano, but having those little robots handle your gearing is effortless and impressive.

The 175mm RockShox Reverb AXS post worked perfectly and had no issues over the several months I had the Womble. I will say my brain doesn’t want to go back to sub-200mm drop posts, even as a fairly short guy, and there was still room to add more dropper travel on my size Medium frame...

Also, the Pike Ultimate RCT3 was as impressive as ever. I really like this fork.
Moots Womble

Bigger anchors please. I have found SRAM's G2 Ultimate brakes to have excellent power and modulation, but I would love to see bikes like this (or really all bikes) specced with at least 180/200 rotors instead of the supplied 160/180 rotors. Literally nobody has finished a ride and gone, “You know what? The extra 30g of weight from my rotors was really holding me back.”

That said, I am admittedly biased towards stupidly powerful brakes, and we are talking about a sub-4lb titanium frame, so this is an incredibly minor nitpick. It costs $10K, let me find something to cry about.
Moots Womble





Final thoughts on the Womble

Pros and cons? No, sorry, I did say this isn't a review. I give the Womble 93/100 TPS reports, 1/5 Bernie Sanders mittens, and 9/9 Whole Foods gift cards.

In all seriousness though, whether you're interested in buying a Womble (can I borrow some money from you?) or not, it’s a hell of a bike, and the right rider won’t be disappointed. Even if that rider isn't the aforementioned rad dad boomer.

Yes, an entry level full suspension outrides the Womble in descending performance, but that’s not what the bike is about. Most efficient climber? Who cares. Enduro-winning descent time? Look elsewhere. The Womble made me stop and think about what I like about hardtails—the simplicity, versatility, and clean design, rather than the traditional performance metrics we sometimes get hung up on. In the right terrain and with the right mindset, it’s an amazing bike.


But wait, now I want a hardtail?

Now that I’ve sent it back, I have to admit that the Womble was a bit of a gateway drug. I want a hardtail in the garage again. But I’d like to try something simultaneously more and less aggressive. Please excuse me while I go on a little tangent.

I'd like an "XC trail" hardtail like this one, but I didn't love its nervousness when things got rough (even for the XCish terrain here). The more I think about it, I believe there’s a limit to how much travel makes sense on a hardtail. As you get deeper into the travel, everything gets worse: the reach lengthens and pulls you forward, and your headtube angle steepens. So a longer fork equals more room for the bike to get worse. That's my theory anyway.

Maybe I’m out to lunch, but I’ve picked up a steel hardtail from another brand, an angle-adjusting headset, and a 120mm SID to see what happens. I’ll try to keep the whole build under ~25lb, but end up with much more aggressive geometry (~62.5° headtube angle, etc). I’m hoping it’ll retain some of the magic of the Womble, but widen the terrain sweet spot.

We’ll see. Is that stupid? Will the 100 foot wheelbase ruin everything? I’m curious to see how stupid the “Slim Donut” is in the next few months. I could be super, super wrong...

PS: The next Field Test will have a whole value hardtail category. Sorry in advance to Levy's ankles.


312 Comments

  • 470 44
 B. False - 100% Boomer Bike. It's got the boomer dentist checklist:
1) Widely Over Priced - Check
2) Sense of superiority - Check
3) Out Dated Geo - Check
4) Not Carbon Fiber (Pick a frame material and be a dick about it) - Check
5) Heavier then an equally spec'd and cheaper FS bike - Check
6) Continues trend of over valued products that have pricing structures that do not reflect the reality for the majority of the marketplace - Check
7) Complete miss on specifications that would be important to the non-dentist level riders and salary earners (no sliding dropouts, boomer leg strength chain ring clearance) - Check

This bike will be ridden by 3 different kinds of people:
1) Boomer Dentists
2) Flannel & Cut-off Jean Wearing, Chamois hating bike shop employees
3) Boomers

To be fair, a boomer on a moots is still cooler then a boomer on a niner.
  • 28 6
 You nailed this one!
  • 13 13
 underrated totally spot-on comment! - CHECK! It's a cool bike but christ I'm definitely not the audience
  • 62 19
 It's 100% a boomer bike, but it's not JUST a boomer bike. Smile
  • 26 0
 This has ESi grips, so it will have crossover appeal with the niner crowd. It's one remote lockout short of a 2005 moots.
  • 4 2
 Hilarious!!
  • 28 4
 Is anyone cool on a Niner?
  • 88 1
 @alexsin: Some people say Kirt Voreis is pretty cool
  • 2 2
 Nailed it!!
  • 13 3
 Boomer audience for sure. That said, Moots does make some REALLY nice stuff and if you are looking for Ti, and can afford them, they are top notch. I have never had them but ridden a few and for the intended ride and purpose, brilliant. They aren't looking to be on the cutting edge geo wise or win enduro races. They just build really cool stuff at a high level of quality and that will last.
  • 3 0
 6 is the most realistic and true.
  • 3 0
 @alexsin: shots fired! I once had a Niner rep tell me at a demo day that they've been building 29ers longer than everyone else, so they know how to build the best 29er.
  • 24 1
 @jack-otb: That’s the beauty of the bike industry there is something for everyone! I like the Womble but due to Moots not doing a semi custom variant I’m not a customer. But I do have a Ti hard tail and I’m not a dentist. I’m an apathetic Gen-X’r
  • 130 6
 Kinda tired of the "out dated geo" gotchya comments. There's plenty of different terrains worldwide, and that which suits one area is not always ideal in another. A hardtail at 67 degrees sagged is pretty perfect for a lot of trails I've ridden in Ontario. It's agile, upright, and fun. Mid speed trails feel so grossly fun on nimble hardtails.

Now queue the gotchya comments about how Ontario doesn't have mtb.

Also interesting to say "pick a material and be a dick about it" while unironically being a dick about geo. Huh.
  • 16 0
 THEIR market and THE market are not the same thing.
  • 8 1
 @sherbet: Well said and agree..
  • 10 0
 Generational categories aside (I am a few years on the inside of Gen X), I have never really understood the concept of a hardcore/aggressive Ti hardtail. The Litespeed Kitsuma was an early and short-lived example of this. The riders that can and will push that sort of bike to its limits could never afford one or alternatively be too uptight about the inherit thrashing riding such a bike entails. I happen to be a dentist as well and own this bike's antecedent in a Kona Honzo ST. Moots makes nice stuff, but it's too bling for even me.
  • 22 14
 The youngest boomers are in their late 50s now. I don't think they're doing much mountain biking, lol. I think it's more of a gen-x bike (40+).
  • 28 3
 So I've built up a custom Chinese ti hard tail with nearly identical geometry. I'd say its spot on for a hard tail.

After much experimentation, I think its silly having more than 130mm travel fork and slacker than 66 degree HTA on a hard tail. Without rear suspension, you can't go fast enough to justify it. With these 150mm 64 degree HTA hard tails, you lose the feeling of a hard tail without getting the speed of a fully. Is it faster than this hard tail? Probably. But a fully with older geometry is faster still.

My hard tail (haven't ridden this one, but like I said very similar geo) still feels way faster than an XC bike, but also has a kinda dirt jump feel to it. You can still ride downhill pretty fast, but you can corner on smooth turns and pop jumps like a dj. You don't have that feeling on the uber slack hard tails or on a fully.

TL;DR: this is close to perfect geo for a hard tail. You don't get a hard tail for ultimate DH performance, thats what fullys are for.
  • 15 0
 @sherbet: completely agree. 'Good' geo depends on where and how you're riding and not everybody wants a 64* head angle.
  • 14 1
 @rivercitycycles: It's almost like bikes are meant to be fun and not a contest to see who's doing it the most correctly.
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: It's a beautiful bike. But please tell me value hardtails won't be the only hardtails reviewed anytime soon. I know, everyone wants a FS but some more hardtails wouldn't hurt. Except for Levy's ankles of course.
  • 4 2
 not my boomer bike, look at how wide those damn handlebars are, youll hit your knuckles on every tree in the forest
  • 5 4
 @dthomp325:

This Gen X rider is NOT interested in overpriced, twitchy hardtails. I'll see if Judd Nelson is interested at our next Gen X meeting.
  • 10 2
 My Nukeproof Scout has a 65* HA unsagged, and most would consider that an aggressive hardtail. But sagged, I think it's around 67*.

This says 67* sagged and nobody's calling it an aggressive hardtail?
  • 18 1
 My boomer dentist and my boomer family doctor have switched to e-bikes. Road and mountain.
  • 4 2
 A lot of bile over a bike you won't own, bro-han.
  • 10 0
 @dthomp325: Hey - I'm one of those youngest boomers and I ride my mountain bikes more than ever now!
  • 10 0
 Be realistic advertising if the "model" had a dad bod and a 2008 24hrs of adrenalin shirt
  • 4 15
flag ATXZJ (Feb 1, 2021 at 13:24) (Below Threshold)
 @dthomp325: As a member of gen X, I say hard no on that one.

F that abomination of a bike
  • 5 0
 @alexsin: Kirt Voreis.

And although he might be the only one, who actually is cooler than Kirt Voreis?
  • 10 1
 @rodzilla13: the problem is you have people who never ride hardtails on trails that are not great for hardtails.

Imagine a review for the new sender saying "it feels sluggish on my local xc loop, and the geometry feels like they went to far and the bike wants to fall over. Even on my more downhill-ish tracks." It makes for a worthless review.
  • 2 0
 TPS Reports.
  • 28 2
 Enough with the bicycle tribalism and generational BS. Ride what makes you happy and what you can afford. You too will be ridiculed by younger generations... just wait and see. (I'm an equal opportunity bicycle lover. It doesn't matter what it is, it's all good.)
  • 10 1
 @ATXZJ: as another member of gen-x I would say hell yes to this bike. And @dthomp is correct. Boomers are in their 60's now (I'm sure many of them would also love this bike).
  • 5 1
 @dthomp325: Another Gen X disagreeing. I won't buy another hardtail (I think I've had six over 30+ years). FS is where it is at until my body crumbles into a gravel-capable-only guy.
  • 4 0
 @tremeer023:

Anyone born before 1964 is a boomer. Do the math.
  • 8 0
 @sherbet: bang on, on that geometry comment. This hardtail will make sense for plenty of people in different places, Ontario being one of them. Bikes on the extreme end of long, low, and slack do. It work well everywhere and can make more tame trails a lot less fun.
  • 16 0
 @sherbet: 67 degree head is even fine for BC, just have to be able to ride....
  • 2 1
 @hamncheez: you mean you can't go fast enough to justify it Wink
  • 3 0
 @payback: I have a pain in my chest; does anyone have some Tums
  • 2 1
 @hamncheez: something stronger is needed... how about tequila?
  • 18 1
 Boomer bike, really? So someone average age of 65, who was there for the dawn of mountain biking, lived through bad geometry, bad tires, bad brakes, bad suspension, really wishing for suspension that could pedal, PURPOSELY goes back to a hard tail? I don't think so. This is a Millenial bike. Think of it as the $400 leather man-purse version of a mountain bike.
  • 1 0
 Find me a number 2 that can afford this bike please. I want their job.
  • 5 0
 @hellbelly: gasp!! a dentist!??!?! get him!
  • 7 4
 @hamncheez: You know that after sag a 65 H/A is 66.5 and at the midstroke it's 68 or higher.

Having a slack hardtail with good midstroke support absolutely will go fast enough to justify it and gives you way more confidence to rail corners and do everything an HT does well but better.
  • 4 3
 @TobiasHandcock: no not really
  • 8 0
 Failed the Brooks saddle checkbox.
  • 1 2
 lets make this a "comment of the year"
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: thanks for your in depth analysis there.
  • 5 1
 Man if you spent as much time employed as writing comments on Pinkbike you might be able to afford any bike you want, ha ha
  • 2 0
 @skiwenric: OMG, that is beyond a perfect comment...!
  • 2 2
 @hamncheez: Have you put any decent amount of time into riding one or are you just saying that based on assumption.

I run a 160 on a scout so it runs about 64 unweighted and 66 sagged. Stupid amounts of midstroke support holds it well up in the travel even on proper steep stuff, I basically never use half the fork. I'd go slacker if I found a frame I like too. It's mind bogglingly good and confidence inspiring to ride a good hardtail, you put your faith in all of your components and geometry, not just your back shock. Oh and I can corner on rough as turns. ????

Not everyone's cup of tea but incase you haven't noticed, this sport is not about everyone having the same bike.
  • 3 1
 @minimusprime Your comment is ice cold and would probably make someone at Moots cry if they could see their computer screen through all the money they're making on boomer bikes.
  • 1 0
 @mrpfp: So the question really is anyone cool on a Niner, who isn't being paid to be on a Niner?
  • 3 1
 @dthomp325: I was reading comments and thinking the same thing. Seems most have confused Boomers (1/2 dead or retired) and Gen Xers.
  • 1 0
 @singleandluvinit: they make the frame not the handlebars...
  • 2 1
 @skiwenric: how is this not top comment??
  • 1 0
 @mrpfp: undoubtedly cool guy. But he is in the age-demographic
  • 2 0
 Sounds more like a hipster bike to me......
  • 3 0
 @dthomp325: I'm Gen-X and you're probably right.
  • 5 0
 @dthomp325: for sure. My Boomer old man could't swing his leg over a bar stool. Yet my Gen-X 42 year old self looks at that and thinks it's bang on for the days I want to keep things simple.

Pinkbike! Know your boomer!
  • 1 0
 You say it’s a boomer bike. But us people of Generation X are now aged between 40 and 55!
(Scary I know). There’s plenty of dentists (maybe even more now than Boomers) in the rebellious Generation X.

And even Millennials are aged 24-40!!!
  • 1 0
 Boomers are 75 to 56 years old!
  • 2 0
 @iamamodel: have you tried a hardtail with 29x2.6 rubber and a tire insert? totally different animal to our hardtils of old.
  • 1 0
 @sherbet: peopeleoften compared the geometry of a hardtail to the number they have seen on full sus bikes. what may seem out dated on a squisher still works awesome on a hardtail because only the front sags. i ride some steep and sketchy trails at Bromont on a older chromag with "outdated" geometry. it still works great despite me owning more modern geo machines.
  • 2 0
 @RoverDover: Absolutely. There has been a well documented shift in people buying mid travel trail and enduro bikes instead of DH bikes due to bikes generally being more capable now (and dare I say it, more fun). But this shift equally applies to older short-mid travel bikes and modern HT's. If your trails are flatter or not rocky, a modern HT is easily as capable and comfortable as a 10 Yr old 140mm trail bike, speaking from personal experience.
  • 1 0
 @hellbelly: I know plenty of pinners who wouldn't have a problem with the cost or thrashing a expensive Ti hardtail. Pretty keen on getting a more agressive than moots Ti hardtail myself. As much as I would love looking at it I wouldn't hesitate to ride it properly.
  • 2 1
 @rivercitycycles: Apathetic gen xers don't ride/own Ti bicycles. Apathetic gen xers don't give 2 toots about anything.
  • 3 0
 @sherbet: You lie! I need 160mm travel F & R just to get to the trail head.
  • 1 0
 @TobiasHandcock: Yes, using anglesets, sliding dropouts, different length forks, etc. Its currently set up as a 67 degree HTA with a 120mm fork, to make it contrast more compared to my enduro bike. I use them for different riding styles depending on my mood or who I'm riding with.

I think for a true aggro hardtail, I found 66 HTA with 130mm fork to be the sweet spot, with the chainstay lengths varying on personal preference.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: Got a link for this ti HT you could send me? thx-cr
  • 1 0
 @creed27: I've had a hard tail done by Waltly, waltlytitanium.com , but my buddy contacted them over the summer and because of COVID I'm not sure they are operating and they didn't respond after his initial contact.

Here is my bike(s) www.pinkbike.com/u/hamncheez/album/29er-custom-ti-

I did a fully with www.tibicycle.com over the summer, and they were responsive and very knowledgeable. This one is my design 100%, I did the CAD and everything. I'm trying to figure out how to do a production run with these frames, but its really, really hard to start a bike company.
  • 2 0
 @TobiasHandcock:

The fact that never use half the fork is @hamncheez’s point. You can’t use that travel without screwing with the geo so you set it up with the spring rate of a 100/120 fork. So what’s the point of having a long travel fork? Why not just run a 120 fork and not carry around the extra fork you aren’t using?
  • 1 0
 Tell us how you really feel.
  • 2 0
 @dthomp325: I would tend to agree with your last post. Why over fork if you don't use all the travel.
  • 6 0
 @dthomp325: Dude I don't think you understand the concept of post college fee disposable income and semi or full retirement free time. Our trails are full of 55+ riders on $10K bikes who rip (practice makes perfect and they are out there every day) because they know golf sucks.
  • 1 0
 @andrewbikeguide: Ya here in Utah the economy is booming and there are a bunch of tech startups (Silicon Slopes). The new rage is road/mountain biking and golf is dying.
  • 1 0
 @sherbet: agree with this statement! A 67 degree HA on a hard tail at 20% sag has to be close to 65 unsagged. That’s right in line with most modern hardtail. There are a few hardcore hardtails that are 63.5-64.5 unsagged, but 65 is not far off. Still at 10k not the bike for me, but no 10k bike is for me!????
  • 2 1
 dunno about outdated geo. just not the geo that people "think" they need. I
saw alotta of 64 degree head angle bikes pedalling in a wobbly wandering pattern all the way down the paved bike path. LOTS.
  • 2 0
 @ATXZJ: According the Doug Coupland (the Godfather of Gen X) Gen X'ers were born between 1958 and 1968 joeclark.org/dossiers/GenerationX.pdf
  • 2 0
 @taprider: every stat I've ever seen about Gen x puts us born between 1965 and 1980. I'm born in 74 and pretty solidly Gen x
  • 2 2
 your dad must’ve been a dentist who bought you shitty bikes while he rode his Litespeed. You hate it so much you want it badly lol
  • 1 0
 @bman33: the Gen Y's (yuppies) must have come up with your stats
  • 1 0
 @taprider: That stat has been mid 60's to late 70's since before Gen Y was out of diapers so there is that. I am aware of Douglas and his book. That said, since my gen was labeled it for as long as I can remember even going back to the mid 80's. Many articles discussing Gen X reference his book and support the widely accepted date ranges for Gen X..

theconversation.com/millennials-gen-x-gen-z-baby-boomers-how-generation-labels-cloud-issues-of-inequality-106892#:~:text=After%20the%20baby%20boomers%20came,Douglas%20Coupland's%20eponymous%201991%20novel.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez:

Totally agree. There are a very limited number of mortal men strong enough or drunk enough to
Really smash it hard enough to justify the geo of a hardcore hardtail
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: even the Broscience checks out. Everyone actually riding hardtails rides a ~66° 120mm on trails. Im never going to understand a 160+mm hardtail at any angle
  • 3 0
 @RonSauce: understand them or not, they are fun too!
  • 3 0
 @RonSauce: nah brah, you gotta open your mind

ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb136858/p4pb136858.jpg

serious tho, with how thick some of those old aluminum dj are, there is negative compliance when you land. Its harsher than landing just on your feet haha
  • 1 0
 @dthomp325: "The youngest boomers are in their late 50s now. I don't think they're doing much mountain biking, lol. I think it's more of a gen-x bike (40+)"

Yeah... I think young people think that anyone over 35 is a boomer. The youngest "boomer" would be 57 years old this year. I don't see a lot of 60 year olds on the trails... certainly not on a hardtail.
  • 2 1
 @privateer-wheels: every bike is fun, doesn't mean it makes sense.
  • 1 0
 @RonSauce: If it's fun, it makes sense.
  • 2 1
 @sherbet: you sound like a guy who hasn't ridden a rigid fixed gear MTB.
  • 2 0
 @RonSauce: doesn't mean it makes sense to you maybe. Certainly does to other people.
  • 1 0
 @privateer-wheels: true, I did say the same thing about plus bikes.
  • 3 1
 @RonSauce: I have. What's your point? Stop the dick measuring already.
  • 2 0
 @bman33: I ain't no God damned millennial LoL

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X
  • 2 0
 @sherbet: he doesn't really have a point.
  • 1 1
 @sherbet: I dont see whats dick measuring about pointing out there is some new genre of bike thats pushed every year. Be it hardcore hardtails, gravel bikes, plus bikes.

Not everything is about your little pee-pee.
  • 4 0
 @RonSauce: 'hardcore hardtails' as much as I hate that expression, are nothing new. Longer travel more aggressive hardtail have been around forever, and aren't going anywhere any time soon.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez:

Way too steep.
  • 1 0
 @dthomp325: The long travel fork just slackens it out and keeps the bikes geo good through the midstroke. As opposed to a regular scout set up with a 140, it's way far gone in the midstroke. The longer fork solves this and Its got a luftappe which makes it supple af.
  • 1 0
 @zmums: That's not true. The geo's do allot of the "Smash it hard" for you. They are nowhere near as difficult to ride as a classic hardtail, that's the whole dam point.
  • 1 0
 @TobiasHandcock:

I’m not arguing that geo doesn’t make a huge difference. A slack ht, low bb, and longer stay will make any bike more composed at high speeds. Just having ridden a bunch of burly stuff on a hardtail, I don’t think that really extreme geo makes enough of a difference to justify all the trade offs. Esp when you’re so limited on rough terrain. Hard tails are fun where @brianpark says they’re fun. Ultra steep tech and fast flowy terrain. And for both of those short chainstay and not insane ht makes things maneuverable and playful. To each his own tho.
  • 1 0
 @m1dg3t: Kind of ironic the the Beatles and Rolling Stones are from the Silent Generation.

As well, The Who are not of My Generation
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: the average age of a ‘boomer’ is 60-75. Getting pretty far outside the envelope for most people to even ride.
More accurately ( and sadly since I am one) ‘Gen X’ would be the more appropriate term...we’re the ones still riding and working with the disposable cash to spend on bikes like these.
  • 5 2
 @RonSauce: Wrong, everything is indeed about my little pp.

Setting aside the slightly homoerotic conversation, you're still missing the point mate. Be cynical all you want, people enjoy these bikes and the market is moving in these directions as people are asking for it. Stop staring down your nose at what people love to do. It ain't harming you.
  • 2 5
 @sherbet: you are projecting a whole bunch, I never starred down my nose at anyone, quit making shit up and get some reading comprehension.
  • 4 1
 @RonSauce: I hope you have a wonderful riding season and don't carry these hostilities with you to the trail! Cheers man!
  • 3 0
 Nothing is “wildly overpriced” when there is a line of people to buy it.

I am not quite a boomer dentist - 50 yo software engineer, who makes more than dentists. Would have bought it easily - if my 5 times cheaper fireline to hardtail was not just fine and will last forever. Though. Maybe for the Moots logo. Hmm.

Don’t hate on things you can’t afford.
  • 1 0
 @creed27: Habanero is doing a refresh to update their spec and geometry- whole bike would be less than the Moots frame!
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: I for one say thank goodness! Golfing is gross.
  • 63 2
 "enjoy the subtle flex (not the material)" - bike review sentence of the year so far...

black forks on this, and maybe delete the wheel decals and this would be one of my lottery winning bikes. A man can dream...
  • 5 3
 I was just thinking that since Spank got canceled all rims are black like it's the law. I don't get it and never will. Raw polished/anodized rims please.
26" 'till I die.
  • 51 0
 I love reading these comments. I've got my order in for a Womble and am waiting patiently until it arrives in late April. I'm not a dentist, but I have always wanted a sweet Ti frame. At 53 do I hammer the CO double black diamond trails - nope. I just love to ride and wanted something that I could finally afford. I'm sure there will be folks out there who will give me flack about my ride but who really cares. I'll let you know how sweet it is once it's here and I've had a chance to loop around the trails with the other old farts I ride with.
  • 8 0
 Congrats! You are going to love it.
  • 7 4
 53? You're young. I'm 56 and I ride all the single and double black diamond trails at bike parks. Maybe you just need a full suspension bike for those kind of trails Smile FWIW I have a Canfield Nimble 9 hardtail and LOVE it. It'll be a sad, sad day when I can't ride a hardtail anymore.
  • 2 0
 Ride the shit out of it and enjoy.
  • 2 0
 @VelkePivo: I'm 59... bitch
  • 12 1
 @tgent: Pick an age and be a dick about it.
  • 1 0
 @rtclark:

Can i upvote this more plz
  • 40 1
 It's just like a super car, once you can afford it, you're too old to use it!
  • 2 2
 Nah. A super car for a 40 year old is awesome. This bike is not awesome in the hands of a 40 year old, or really anyone for that matter
  • 7 0
 @Mntneer: dude, 40 is not old! At 54 I can keep with most people on bikes, on 4 wheels I am faster than most.
  • 2 0
 @Bomadics: I know that it’s not old! I’m saying that super cars are awesome, and I imagine that I could get one at 40 without bludgeoning my investments. I would never buy this bike, however
  • 6 1
 @Mntneer: 40 is not old. Once you get to 50, it seems young. I am sure someone 60 feels the same way about 50. It will be here before you know it: One day you will be looking at at cute 20 something, and the look back will be “why is that old pervert staring at me?” At that moment you will realize, even though you don’t feel that old, to young people you are.
  • 2 0
 @carym: Ouch; I'm 54 and a MTBer for 20+ years. That comment is way too on point...yikes!
: /
  • 40 4
 Another data point to consider when thinking about the cost: These frames are handmade in CO, where I imagine, Moots pays their people a living wage. To some people that means more than a HT angle. If you're not one of those people that's fine but maybe think about the PEOPLE that make these bikes everyday before you shit all over their hard work.
  • 13 11
 Nobody is shitting on their hard work. It's pretty much agreed that Moots represent ultimate construction quality. People balk at having to pay the price associated with white people doing that work.
  • 3 0
 JFC, yup, one of the best comments on here!
  • 12 2
 @alexsin: it's not that they don't want to pay for "white people doing the work" (implying their whiteness makes them more valuable?), it's that they'd rather not acknowledge they've grown accustomed to taking advantage of third world laborers who don't get paid a living wage.
  • 25 0
 While this bike doesn't appeal to me at all, still a fun read. Thanks Brian, enjoyed your writing.
  • 27 3
 Sorry but how evil do you have to be to write the geometry in inches.
  • 35 2
 You mean freedom units?
  • 7 0
 Some parts of the geo chart are in imperial and some parts in metric. What the hell?
  • 3 2
 @barp: This must be a new flavour of political correctness Wink
  • 1 1
 Excuse me while I go get my wife to measure my hardtail while I'm standing on it in so I can compare it to this one.
  • 18 0
 I want a womble so bad, but I didn't know it would make me a boomer. As someone firmly planted in millennial territory, I guess I'll have to reassess my life choices.
  • 51 1
 Boomer is a state of mind.
  • 3 12
flag hamncheez (Feb 1, 2021 at 11:59) (Below Threshold)
 Order a custom ti from China; $1000 and any geometry you want.
  • 1 0
 It’ll be the best decision you make
  • 20 1
 Yeti: "Alright, how much higher can we price our bikes for dentists?"

Moots: "Hold my beer."
  • 7 0
 Pivot: “wait till you see what we charge for our ebike”
  • 1 0
 @rndholesqpeg: not as much as S!
  • 17 1
 @brianpark

Literally nobody has finished a ride and gone, “You know what? The extra 30g of weight from my rotors was really holding me back.”

I'd wager somebody has said this in the cycling community.

It definitely wasn't true, but i think it's definitely been said.
  • 2 0
 well it is rotating mass...
  • 3 0
 Rotors is one of the first places every XC racer looks to drop weight. It’s rotating weight and often a good $/gram ratio compared to other components.
  • 21 4
 Go buy a Chromag Rootdown and thank me later.
  • 2 0
 Buy the Ti Rootdown if you have the money, I love my regular Rootdown
  • 2 0
 Or any number of the decent HTs coming from these 'rona infected shores.
  • 1 0
 if you strip the paint and brush the steel, it kinda looks like ti. I love mine and will probably never part with it.
  • 11 0
 @Bizzle78: So the Ti Rootdown is $3,096 US for the frame and made in Taiwan. The Womble is $3,749 US, so price wise you're really not looking at THAT much of a difference. Not necessarily the point you are making, but for all those complaining about the price, it's close to cromag's.
  • 16 1
 Hardtails are like lightsabers. To quote Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi:
“ Not as clumsy or random as a full-sus ride; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.”
  • 13 0
 I appreciate the write up! Full suspension bikes come and go but a good hardtail will last a decade. Plenty of room in the stable for both.
  • 5 0
 always need both in the fleet.
  • 11 0
 I bought this as a frame only and managed to find all the parts I wanted for it and put it together. I love this bike, it's amazing, the ride is great, and I know it is going to last forever! I tried to keep the build USA made, but that is easier said than done. I was fortunate enough to afford this and I am glad my money went to paying fellow Americans a livable wage in the middle of a pandemic. A hardtail isn't for everyone, and I am also neither a dentist or a boomer, so a titanium hardtail is an even smaller niche, but I like this bike a lot and it suits me well. If you have the means to do so, I highly recommend picking one up, it is so choice!
  • 2 0
 Save Ferris!

...Milennials, look it up! Wink
  • 12 1
 This might just be the Toyota Land Cruiser of the mountain bike world.

There will be a few posers, but most of the people who buy this bike will love it, ride the hell out of it,
and still own it long after the haters have gone through three of the latest greatest. More importantly, they won’t give a damn about what anyone else thinks of their bike.
  • 1 0
 Ooh, that is kinda the Perfect Analogy. Well-spoken!
  • 3 0
 That's a big call.
  • 9 0
 My last 140mm hardtail had a 65.5° head angle and that was a good balance of characteristics for me. Yes, it admittedly wasn't as laser sharp on the smooth, twisty trails as my old-school xc bike. But it was a better all-around bike because it was still enjoyable on the simple stuff and I could also confidently handle fast, rough, steep trails, only held back by keeping the rear wheel in control. And it's a hardtail so it is always going to pedal well.

I think a slack-ish 140mm hardtail is possibly the best do-it-all bike for someone on a budget. But if I had a Moots budget... I would skip the Ti flex and just get two separate bikes
  • 4 0
 And this bike's posted 67 at 25% of sag = 35mm (of a 140mm) means it is at least as slack as your bike (if your number is with zero sag). And as you found out, not bad geo at all.
  • 3 0
 @CarlMega: Thank you, that is a great point. Yes, my number was without sag, and with sag is almost exactly the same. And it rocked
  • 1 0
 My Transition Throttle is 140mm with a 66 degree head angle and it's perfect. It is an absolute blast on all but the sketchiest trails, and I also have an enduro race bike for stuff like that.
  • 8 0
 Looks like it has it's purposes. But, it's hard to have a quiver with bikes that expensive. If you have the cash, enjoy! Enough hate on dentists and people who make money. It's so boring. Society needs dentists more than people who think they're more core and don't really comtribute.
  • 7 0
 This particular bike is not for me, but I definitely understand the appeal of handmade titanium frames. I think the best analogy is to a classic car. There's no rational case to be made for owning an old Datsun 240z, or an original Mini that wants to kill you. For the same money you could get a car that is faster, more comfortable, and more reliable, but if that classic car speaks to you, it'll make sense, at least in your head. It's a given that if you're thinking about a bike like this or a classic car, you're in a very fortunate position. I hope to someday get a custom titanium frame and when I do the idea will be to keep it for a very long time. I wouldn't get a trail hardtail because I'm not confident that I could pick geometry numbers that will still make me happy in 3, 5, or 10 years. On the other hand I think there's a much better chance that a gravel bike designed today will still hold up from a geo perspective in a decade. The other crazy option would a dirt jump frame. DJ bikes have gotten a little longer and slacker lately, but I think the geo is really dialing in on a sweet spot where I think we'll see much smaller changes going forward.
  • 2 0
 As someone who owns a 240z, And "old" 26'' wheeled hard tail (while not custom, she's been great to me), I endorse this. I have been riding the hard tail for years, I like this comment. A lot.
The 240z is very reliable. You just have to change what your idea of reliable is. It is a analog process. It requires work, and attention. But I'd drive her across country tomorrow given the chance. Kinda similar with the HT. I've got old geo full suspension bikes and have a very modern one on order, but the HT brings a certain joy, just like the z.
Neither is a logical thing. There are better solutions for most things than them. But smiles per miles, and the "in the moment, here and now" that they demand when in use, is purely sublime. I'll have both for the rest of my life, I'm sure.
  • 7 1
 Agreed on the longer fork thing. You get more squish, but more geometry change. I've got 140mm on mine and would love an extra 20mm for skipping through rock gardens with my weight on my bars (to protect the rear wheel), but don't want even more extreme geo changes when cornering, on steep stuff, and braking.
  • 6 0
 I run a 160 on my hardtail and love it. People make too much of a deal over geo.
  • 1 0
 Get a fork with dual positive chamber. Or an aftermarket kit.
  • 1 0
 @romphaia: like a Secus?
  • 6 0
 Found out my wife was pregnant and I started looking at hard tails. Didn’t know it was a “dad bike,” but I was stoked on something that would be fun to ride with the lil guy on the flow trails/tow a trailer/put a macrides on.
  • 2 0
 Congratulations! I’ve been riding my hardtail loads with the Mac Ride on.
  • 6 0
 My two cents. .

1. Ti is cool and spending 10,000 on any bike doesn't make sense to a non-biker. At that point just get what you want and who cares if it makes sense. Bikes should not be a class issue, there are already too many of those and if you could afford a 10,000 bike you would get one.

2. Dropper posts are a game changer for hardtails. Many modern, machine built trails are smooth enough for hardtails and without all that suspension movement on jumps they are more predictable and efficient therefore a great tool for the right trail. Its the same reason you don't see suspension on bmx bikes.

3. I have a custom steel "trail" 27.5 hardtail with a 140 fork on it. I had to get it custom because most companies making steel these days in this category don't use high-end tubing so the bikes are boat anchors. Would be one reason to get a moots. I was also able to request swoopy seatstays that really give it a nice supple feel. With fast rolling 2.8 tires on it the f*cker is super smooth, playfull and rips. There are plenty of trails it will take a FS bike to school on under the right rider.

Guess I mostly wanted to say I have a custom steel hardtail. . Hahaa! and I'm a millenial. .
  • 7 0
 Would love to see this in a tandem. With that amount of rewards miles I would earn from that one purchase I could also take that trip to the moon I've been eyeing.
  • 7 0
 "PS: The next Field Test will have a whole value hardtail category. Sorry in advance to Levy's ankles."

Uhh don't you mean sorry in advance to @jasonlucas 's ankles?
  • 4 0
 Levy still has to ride them.
  • 1 0
 I suspect Levy will be doing the km on the bikes, whereas Jason will be doing the parking lot hucks.

They might not be old enough to be boomers, but by the time they are done, those might have the ankles of one. Wink
  • 1 1
 @brianpark: can you make sure he’s not wearing Lycra Shorts......Wink
  • 2 0
 I was going to say this, I feel for Jason's ankles. I hope he has started training them for this
  • 5 0
 Great write-up Brian, I've been curious how this one rides i second your theory that hardtails actually ride harder and faster with 120-130mm travel. That definitely mirrors my experience. Stoked to learn more about your slim donut.
  • 1 0
 By "rides harder" i mean i can charge harder, rider harder terrain, and do so faster and in more control than with a big fork.
  • 4 0
 Everyone in the comments says it's a dated boomer bike, but I'm not a boomer and I dig it! Ti is cool and old geo isn't such a problem to me on xc trails. Yes, I have a modern geo bike and it does shred pretty well. It's even a mullet!
  • 7 0
 this article proves no matter what you buy, someone online is gonna probably be a dick about it
  • 5 1
 Any hardtail Moots 26er still worth a goddam fortune. They are lifetime bikes. They are the gold brick in a modern zoo of FS junk with ratty bearing holes and smoked suspension. A real bike for serious long term riding in the mountains. Fresh tires, dt tune and a lower oil change and your in business all over again.
  • 6 0
 coming soon to Marin county
  • 11 5
 lol $9.3k for a hardtail..
  • 5 0
 yeti has a $9900 hardtail, so this thing is a god damned bargain!
  • 18 0
 @conoat: Not that a hardtail at this price range will ever be in my garage. That said, if it ever would, I would buy this over the Yeti ever single time without question
  • 1 0
 @bman33: I don't think anyone here would disagree with you there. lol
  • 2 0
 After hearing about it over the course of 20 podcasts my god this non-review was a long time coming Brian!


Edit- Perhaps the brilliant 9 tooth small cog on E13 cassettes could be an option for people who want a bit of a bump in speed with the 32t max chaingring? Or is a company like E13 far too pedestrian to find itself on this bike?
  • 2 0
 I had the Martello on the back of my bike with a Mazza up front, it's a seriously good tire combo. Coming off a DHF/Aggressor combo I had better braking traction (it saved my bacon more than once!), and the way the rear tire broke loose in a turn was just perfect, would definitely be interested in a Martello/Agarro or Barzo combo!
  • 2 0
 Put a proper tapered head tube and I might consider it. Still surprising that “custom” bikes don’t have a head tube that’s clearly superior for stack adjustability. Especially with long travel forms, keeping the stack height lower is a huge advantage. Zero stack headsets all the way in my opinion.
  • 2 0
 I used to also think too much travel wasn’t good for a hardtail but after going from a 67 HA 29 with 120 fork to a 130 it was better. Then I had a 65 HA 27.5 with a 140 fork and it was also great. Now I’m on a 64 HA 27.5 designed for a 160 and it’s amazing.

Geometry makes up for the supposed shortcomings of fork travel. I’m sure there is some limit and maybe I’m close to it but it’s not as bad as people make it out to be.
  • 2 0
 This article was downvoted by over 70 Boomers . it indicates the total number of us left ( still alive) but doesn't not necessarily indicate WHY we downvoted the article other than we down vote EVERYTHING on internet comments sections .
  • 2 0
 Cal it what you want, but there is something cool about a well made Ti bike.. It's definitely out of my budget, but still a sweet rig.. The hardtail bug has bit me as of late.. The Giant Fathom 29 looks like it could have a lot of potential.. Especially for the price..
  • 4 0
 Disappointing to see so much hate.. Why can't certain people simply appreciate the craftsmanship, whether or not you're willing to pay for it.
  • 2 0
 @brianpark make sure you can adjust the stays to a linger setting. I have found the slacker HTA needs longer rear legs to make it steer ok at low speed with my geo experiment hardtail.
  • 1 0
 The SolarisMax I bought has 444mm chainstays. I think that'll be about right but we'll see!
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Ooohh! Good choice. The low-ish stack held me back on that one. Running 70mm of spacers would have killed the aesthetic for me. Picked up a Nimble 9 instead. So many good hardtail choices these day.
  • 1 0
 @clipless03: yeah I have an external cup up top to slack it out so I'm not as worried about the stack. Also, calling it an XC bike makes a slammed-ish front end look right.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: that seems good. I have a kona unit with a -2* and in the short setting its a little floppy with a 120 fork. At full length its 445 which made it feel better. Gonna shorten to 100 just to see if it can be "perfect".
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Same here. Hasn't arrived yet, but I'm hoping it ticks all the boxes in reality that it does on paper.
  • 5 0
 Two words @brianpark .... Surface Ti.
  • 4 3
 I’m fully agree on the comment about fork travel on hardtails. I build my hardtails (63-64.5 hta unsagged depending on the rider) around 120mm forks. This keeps the geo more consistent throughout the entire range of travel.

Travel only makes up for bad geo.
  • 4 0
 @brianpark stoked to hear about the value hardtail field test. You guys should collaborate with hardtail party on youtube.
  • 1 0
 Being a boomer who didn't have the foresight to go into dentistry as a profession I'd like to suggest a bit more modern, far cheaper Canadian branded (via Taiwan) frame, the Banshee Paradox V3. Nice ride for Aluminum, spot on geometry, and way cheaper. I'm building mine with i9 Enduro hoops, a GX drivetrain, a Fox 34 x 130mm, and Shimano XT 4 pistons. Hardtail don't make a lot of sense these days, but there is just something fun and simple, especially as a second bike... if you're a dentist.
  • 1 0
 I built up my paradox v3 last month. “Budget” build with mostly leftover or takeoff parts 150mm over forked due to having a 34 rhythm on hand (64 hta static measured) . Super fun and humbling at the same time. Can definitely feel and appreciate the engineered flex. I think “muted” is the correct term for feel.
  • 1 0
 What kind of metal did you listen to when riding this Ti rocketship? I have non-Boost rear wheels so ordered up a Gen3 Ti Stanton Sherpa instead of the Womble, saving some cash and keeping my Nox Farlows in heavy use. Slllayyyer!!!
  • 1 0
 @ Brian Park - What the heck is a "Rad dad boomer"? Are you saying folks between the ages of 57 to old as dirt (over 75) are interested in a hardtail with progressive geometry and 140mm fork? LOL!!! You Sir, have jumped the proverbial shark with the boomer cliche. That all said, Moots has hit it out of the park with another great bike!
  • 2 0
 I'd love to talk about how this bike must compare to my bike, but first I need to explain to my wife why I need her to hold an angle meter next to the fork of my bike while I'm standing on it.
  • 2 1
 I can't imagine buying a stock diamond frame bike that expensive. Go full-custom steel or ti from your nearest artisan builder. Get exactly the right fit and geometry, lifetime quality, all the "flex" you want for much less money.
  • 1 0
 The only question I have is at that price why not a full custom Kent Eriksen or Strong? Part of the premium price is working with a builder to have the bike fitted to your size, weight, and riding. If buying an off the shelf, one size fits all frame, there is zero point in spending so much.
  • 2 0
 I like how it looks but for this type of mtb, I'd get a steel hardtail with same geo and spec.. If I can afford to buy a Moots bike, I'd probably get the Routt or Vamoots RCS.
  • 1 0
 Problem is you build up an aggressive hardtail and then you ride it like it wants, suddenly you have to add 2 pounds in tire weight for it to last a single ride. Locally there’s not much I won’t hit on my RSD Middlechild, and my build came in under 2 grand since I could use some parts I already had. Long live hardtails!!
  • 1 0
 I'm 49. I started in the 80s on full rigid, got a suspension fork in the 90s, and full suspension in 2007. I still ride my 1990 GT Avalanche around town. It's got BMX bars on it now. That's it though. No way I'll ever ride a hardtail on trails again. Not ever.
  • 7 3
 Avocado toast is racist, fight me.
  • 1 0
 "I’m definitely not advocating that Moots throw a 160mm fork on this bike—I’m not sure the world needs an ultra expensive titanium hardcore hardtail, but maybe that’s just me."

Correct.
  • 3 3
 Really looking forward to the upcoming Value Hardtail Field Test. To me, a good hardtail is something everyone will have to own at least one time in their lifetime.

Great for people just getting into mountain biking? Yep. Awesome bang for buck, forces you to focus on learning all about line choices, and much simpler in terms of learning about bike maintenance and upgrading.

Great for off season winter riding? Yep. In general, they can take more abuse as far as infrequent cleaning and care.

Great for old geezers addicted to nostalgia as their drug of choice? I think so. I would love to pick up something reminiscent of a classic bike from the mid 90’s, but with modern geometry, modern disc brakes, better tires, and a simpler to operate 1x drivetrain. More pleasure on the trail than a museum piece, but still beautiful to look at, and infused with mtb heritage.

And most importantly, great for keeping people away from gravel bikes. Seriously, why buy one of those abominations, when there are fantastic hardtails (and even some fully rigids) that exist? “But drop bars offer more places to put your hands?” Really? Ever heard of bar-ends? I still have a collection of those, and would love to try them out again when I get around to building a marathon or bikepacking bike... I think it makes sense (heck, my first real mtb, a Bridgestone MB3, had a Zoom Brahma bar on it, which would be really weird by today’s standards).
  • 2 0
 also great for doing everything you do on squishy trail/enduro bikes. Hardtails are awesome if you embrace the fact that YES, they are a bit harder to ride well and YES that makes them totally worth it. I ride my hardtail more than my SB 5.5, and both run 160 up front.
  • 2 0
 @SprSonik: that’s not the first time I’ve heard someone say that it’s the challenge of riding a hardtail that is appealing. I think for people whose closest trails are NOT double black diamond North Shore runs, a hardtail makes a lot of sense. Full suspension is great for extra confidence and control in those kinds of conditions, but if your trail isn’t THAT demanding, then wouldn’t riding it on a hardtail be a bit more fun for a skilled rider than something with bedsprings on both ends?
  • 2 0
 @MB3: EXACTLY why I have my Yeti if I am going somewhere that I need it. I was off my hardtail for 4 months recovering from a crash (tore up my elbow on the inside) and am literally just now back on it. Haven't touched the Yeti since I got back on the hardtail. But if I was going on a road trip and didn't know where I might be riding, the Yeti is my choice.
  • 3 0
 ".....enjoy the subtle flex (not the material), .."

Moots, AXS, ENVE, & Pike Ultimate, nothing subtle about that flex.
  • 2 0
 To be honest, out of all the bikes I've spent time drooling over in the Great Bike Shortage of 2020, I have spent the most time looking at hardtails.
  • 2 0
 Average PB commenter: I don't know what that niche word means, but only dentists and people with a lot of money can afford this bike.
  • 1 0
 I'm consistently puzzled by nearly every manufacturer still being hamstrung by trying to fit the drive side chainstay between the chainring and tire when front derailleurs are a thing of the past. Just move it up! So dumb.
  • 1 0
 it's missing a special edition golden fork ......with matching golden edition wheels of course and some golden screws here and there and mostly a great golden cable along that frame ....and then...maybe ?
  • 2 0
 90s teen me: Moots and Porsche. 2020 me: Honda Accord and Honzo ST. I might not be able to put a Porsche in the garage yet, but this could hold me over...
  • 1 0
 It's kinda funny, the geometry is pretty close to my 2019 Rocky mountain thunderbolt 130/130. My bike feels very fast and light and very rideable, pedal able and descends with confidence. this slack geo is getting crazy.
  • 1 1
 "The Womble wants to be pedalled way up into the mountains. Fast, open, smooth terrain is the bike’s bread and butter. It absolutely loves natural singletrack,"

All those things it "wants" or "loves" aren't the same for many places. "Way up into the mountains" isn't often "smooth" on the way down. "Natural singletrack" often not "open", and is almost never "smooth", in many places.
  • 1 1
 Well. There are plenty of bikes over 10k with NO suspension travel Smile

Do you need a Ferrari 488 Pista? Is it practical? Hell no. People who buy these buy them because they can.
  • 1 1
 I just finished building a steel hardtail, a Canfield Nimble 9 with 29x2.6 Maxxis tires and a 2x11 XTR M9000 drivetrain. The Nimble 9 climbs great and rips the downhills. Big wheeled steel hardtails are super fun.
  • 3 1
 Making fun of someone else's bike is pathetic because it doesn't fit your idea of cool or is beyond your budget...
  • 1 0
 Being hurt by a bike review is pretty uncool too.
  • 2 1
 @HardtailParty always says hardtails feel best with a 130mm fork and usually feels people are overforked on their hardtails due to the same reasons mentioned here.
  • 1 0
 Carbon wheels and witchcraft shifting is not appropriate for a hardtail. Part of my response is due to ethics and the other half is due to function.
  • 1 0
 I think I'd rather ride a 120/120 XC/marathon full suspension bike than an hardtail with a 140 or more travel at the front. It feels so wrong and unbalanced to me.
  • 7 4
 OK Boomer
  • 2 2
 Came here to say this
  • 1 0
 @jdrsiff: Damn; I was third in line.

Can't believe it wasn't the first comment...!
: 0
  • 1 0
 Remember you’re a Womble!!

Making good use of things left behind.

Ahh those were the days.
  • 2 0
 So cool bike, and than i saw the grips... Smile
  • 2 0
 Your new hardtail sounds like you've been hanging out with Andrew Major!
  • 1 0
 How does Chromag stay in business--could it be droppers, risers, and Mezzers?
  • 2 0
 No slo-mo huck to flat? Such a wasted opportunity!
  • 2 0
 Hell yeah hardtail category!!!!
  • 1 0
 still waiting on my ti boomer frame.. www.pinkbike.com/photo/20021924
  • 5 5
 Hey y'all fellow millennials, get on that $GME or $AMC train and you won't have to be a boomer to get one of these.

#tothemoon #gmegobrrr
  • 1 0
 Well done ti always looks stunning, but looking forward to seeing the sub 25 lb hardtail with a 62.5 ha.
  • 5 2
 Go and buy Chromag!
  • 2 0
 More Brian Park (not) reviews please????
  • 2 0
 Real wombles come from Wimbledon, this is an imposter !
  • 1 0
 Can't wait to see or hear about your custom build @brianpark I'm all about the keep it cheap custom these days.
  • 3 1
 What the hell is a Boomer??
  • 3 7
flag nurseben (Feb 1, 2021 at 12:48) (Below Threshold)
 A middle aged person with a belly, a job, and no time to ride.

To the boomer, this bike represents the pinnacle of their financial achievements.

Sadly, to own "things" like this, the boomer must work a lot, so they have no time to ride.

On a bright note, this bike will stay clean and shiny hanging from their thousand dollar wall mounted bike rack.
  • 2 0
 @nurseben: The same people who buy Trust forks...
  • 1 0
 @nurseben: oh! Now I understand. Cheers.
  • 1 0
 Officially, it's anyone over 56, i.e., people who need rear suspension to prevent spinal collapse and ankle disintegration.
  • 2 4
 @BenPea: rear supension is for people who like to go fast, in general people who just wanna rip. Feel free to chase me down the hill on your hardtail, I'll wait for you at the bottom Wink
  • 1 1
 @Bushmaster123: Awww, look who's jealous
  • 1 0
 I was wondering the exact same thing!
  • 3 0
 Nurseben is a moron. Boomer refers to to baby boomer whose point of view is outdated in relation to a younger more relavant POV
  • 6 1
 @nurseben:
over seventy Boomer - A person that rode the Marin County fire trails on 55 lb steel framed bikes with little to no brakes back in the late fifties . Also known as the Fucing INVENTORS of Mountain biking .
Every generation after that - ungrateful loud mouthed punks that make inane over generalized rants on the net in between riding daddies shiny full suspension cushy suspension bike with brakes that can stop him on a dime and call it bad ass. STFU, NurseBoy .
  • 2 0
 @nurseben: I ride full sus for comfort, physical preservation, speed and to render things possible. My point is that selling hardtails that only wealthy older people can afford and deliberately targeting them is an ambitious move, given that we become more fragile with age (me 44, pretty f*cked in general). Unless it's just meant to be a glorified gravel bike/status symbol. Any boomer who can shred proper trails on this has my respect, even XC ones.
  • 3 0
 Preach! @Sirios:
  • 2 0
 @Bushmaster123: Lo\oking at his profile NurseBen is 55 missing the cutoff by one year.
  • 1 0
 @onespeedbrian: Dudes a total hypocrite.
  • 1 0
 @Bushmaster123: To be fair, a Trust fork would be amazing on this. You would get the geo-change problems in rough terrain described in the (non)review.
  • 1 0
 @arandomJohn: I see your point. Unfortunately where I live I see them on ebikes so they're kinda of a status symbol and usually represents a lack of skill and fitness. To each their own. Bikes are still awesome...
  • 1 0
 Maybe I will save this for your Slim Donut post but I have experimented with my bike and was "super, super wrong..."
  • 1 1
 If I was gonna spend that much money on a bike, at the minimum it should come with rear suspension and a bottle opener. I think they missed the mark on this one.
  • 1 1
 I live a few miles from where these are made, and could never afford one. My wife and I are school teachers... I ride what I can get at a decent price!
  • 1 0
 Wow, whats next some unique and fresh insights on the equally idiotic longboard vs. shortboard debate?
  • 2 0
 The perfect 3rd bike to pickup a decade & a half from now for $1000
  • 1 0
 Here's hoping 2036 isn't anything like 2021, or it'll still be worth $2500!
  • 1 0
 SolarisMax! I'm a sucker for an awesome 29HT. Nice choice. Can't see what the Slim Donut has to say!
  • 1 0
 "...enjoy the subtle flex (not the material)". -Well done Brian, I was hooked from here on!
  • 1 0
 External brake cable routing that forces you to remove the banjo's for service. The worst of both worlds. WTF?
  • 1 0
 Hope I'll become a boomer one day
  • 2 2
 And here I always thought that Surly and Salsa had the market cornered on boomer bikes.
  • 3 3
 Boomers are now between 57 and 75 years old. Show me the first boomer to buy this bike and I'll be surprised.
  • 2 0
 Most of the cycling boomers I know are now on road or gravel bikes. Not all, but many. It’s a shame, although if companies like Moots keep coming out with bikes like this, maybe some of them will resist the dark side.
  • 4 0
 @MB3: I see plenty of boomers out on the trails, but they aren't on slack hardtails. Plenty of fast guys and gals in their late 50s and older, but they tend to be on full suspension bikes, from what I see.
  • 1 0
 Where’s the huck to flat?
  • 2 1
 mountain biking is not cool.
  • 1 0
 Another bike that I would ride, but not buy.
  • 1 0
 STA is slacker than the HA.
  • 1 0
 listing the chainstay length in inches..is that an inside joke?
  • 1 0
 The whole bike is a piece of flair
  • 1 0
 That price holy moly batman!
  • 2 4
 Much like another guys comment,
Go buy a Chromag Surface TI, the bike that actually achieves all of the unicorn hardtail goals this overpriced piece of whoo ha can’t.
  • 1 1
 Womble Niner SIR9. Ya welcome
  • 2 2
 Am I on the Radavist? I thought I was on pinkbike, but you never know...
  • 1 0
 MOOBER
  • 1 1
 No sliding dropouts - Fail
  • 1 2
 Boomer Chameleon.
  • 2 5
 I think that the best thing about that generation is that they've had enough character not to get brainwashed into this PC bs that forbids people to generalize everything except generations. Every time I see those words online I get an urge to diss every group of people ever invented in history. Let's all take a second to support the Indian nazi midgets on acid and their gey hate towards poor black lesbian abortion rights in Populistianopolis.
Below threshold threads are hidden

Post a Comment



Copyright © 2000 - 2021. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.028373
Mobile Version of Website