OneUp 45 Tooth XTR Conversion - Review

Jul 14, 2015
by Mike Levy  
A number of aftermarket options have sprung up that cater to riders who want to tweak their bike's gearing range, but OneUp Components is quickly becoming the name that most will likely think of due to the company's quickly expanding lineup of wide-range cassette solutions. The latest edition to the Squamish, BC, company's catalog is a pie plate-sized, aluminum 45 tooth cog that's designed to work with Shimano's 11-speed XT and XTR drivetrains that would otherwise top out with a 40 or 42 (on XT only) tooth cog in their stock configuration. A steel 18 tooth cog is also included, which OneUp says, ''provides more even cassette progression for smoother cadence and improved shifting,'' and the whole shebang adds 12.5% to the gearing range over the stock setup.
OneUp 45t XTR conversion review test

The two-cog kit adds 65 grams to an XTR cassette, and OneUp has forsaken their usual anodized green colours for a slate grey finish that comes close to matching the rest of the XTR drivetrain. The 18 and 45 tooth cogs are only sold together as a kit, with an MSRP of $90 USD for both. www.oneupcomponents.com


OneUp 45t XTR cog
  Looks like a bunch of confusing, squiggly lines; is actually OneUp's gear chart that uses confusing, squiggly lines.


Installation and Setup

The last OneUp component that I reviewed was their SRAM-specific X-Cog that, while not exactly requiring an engineering degree to install, does necessitate that you pry apart your extremely expensive X-Dome cassette with a flat blade screw driver before hammering the aftermarket cog in place. Scary stuff for some, especially if you paid full pop for that pricey X-Dome block, but, thankfully, OneUp's 45 tooth cog doesn't require you to pry or hammer anything. In fact, if you've got the tools to remove and install a cassette - a lockring tool and a chain whip, as well as a 2mm hex key to dial on some B-tension, and possibly a few links of 11-speed chain - you should be able to get the job done in ten or fifteen minutes.


OneUp 45t XTR conversion review test
The extra five teeth dwarf the stock 40 tooth cog that used to provide the easiest gearing option.
OneUp 45t XTR conversion review test
The OneUp cog is dished to fit behind the stock 40 tooth XTR cog with the correct spacing.


The job is as easy as removing the stock cassette from your wheel, sliding the 45 tooth OneUp cog onto the freehub body, and then reinstalling the XTR cassette with OneUp's steel 18 tooth cog and thin spacer in place of Shimano's 17 and 19 tooth paired cogs. Tighten down the lockring and slide the wheel back into your frame before checking your chain length and the derailleur's B-tension adjustment - you'll likely need to tinker with both before heading out for a ride. I had to add a link of chain to compensate for the OneUp cog being five teeth larger, as it would have been too short to allow for full suspension travel when I'm in my easiest gear, and most others will find the same.


OneUp 45t XTR conversion review test
OneUp's 45 tooth cog is machined to match standard freehub bodies, meaning that you can create a mega-wide range cassette on older wheels.
OneUp 45t XTR conversion review test
Out with the 17 and 19 tooth stock XTR cogs, in with the single 18 tooth steep cog and thin spacer.


I also added two full turns of B-tension to the XTR derailleur in order to have the upper pulley wheel clear the larger cog. Not enough B-tension will see the derailleur basically try to shift the chain into the side of the largest cog, and while it might eventually make its way up onto it, the shift will be about as agreeable as throwing a bunch of pots and pans down a flight of stairs. OneUp says that ''Due to the large pulley wheel offset of the latest 11 speed Shimano rear derailleurs, B-screw adjustment is well within the normal operating range and chain wrap is excellent throughout the cassette for flawless wide range shifting,'' but too much B-tension will slow things down in the opposite direction, so it's important to get this one right.





Performance

When I reviewed OneUp's 44 tooth X-Cog conversion to fit SRAM cassettes, I found the eight tooth jump between the 44 cog and stock 36 tooth cog to feel awkward and disruptive to my cadence. Yes, the X-Cog provided an easier and presumably terrain-opening gear for some riders, but I wasn't a fan of the gearing jump. It's an entirely different story with OneUp's 45 tooth XTR cog, though, as there's only a five tooth jump between it and the 40 tooth cog that sits just below it, which feels much more natural.

The 45 tooth cog will provide anyone with an easy enough gear to pedal their bike up anything they'd actually want to scale, that much is obvious, but it's also a very useable gear ratio in that you can jump between it and the 40 tooth next to it strictly to mix up your cadence without losing momentum. Much larger and the OneUp cog would likely have you feeling like you've shifted from 5th to 2nd gear while driving your car on the highway, but the five tooth gap isn't pronounced enough to prevent your legs from compensating. Then again, the full five tooth jump from the 40 tooth, which used to be the XTR cassette's easiest gear, is large enough to act as a bailout gear when you need to soft-pedal at the end of an all-day mission.


OneUp 45t XTR conversion review test
  OneUp's 45 tooth cog is larger than the big chain rings that riders used to use, but it doesn't look out of place on the XTR cassette.


I don't believe that our bikes should simply have the easiest gears available, and as I've said in the past, if I wanted to have that I'd be using three chain rings and a front derailleur. I want to get to the top of the mountain in a respectable amount of time, and my fitness is just as important to me as handling skills, just as it is with a lot of you out there. Those reasons are why the 45 tooth cog was paired with a slightly larger chain ring than usual, a 32 tooth, XTR compatible chain ring from OneUp, that created both a wider and easier range than I had been running. Riders with a bit of a competitive spirit in them would do well to do the same. And what of the "Dual Shift Zones" that OneUp says their 18 and 45 tooth cogs create? I have to admit that the converted cassette felt a lot like any other stock cassette out there, and I never really had the impression that there were two distinct "zones" to my shifting patterns.

Shift speed up onto the 45 tooth cog was a touch slower than going up to just the 40, which is totally to be expected, and the difference is marginal enough that many riders won't even notice the disparity. This increases under heavy pedalling loads, just as it does on a completely stock cassette, but it's pretty inconspicuous. But, much like I found with the 44 tooth X-Cog, coming down off of the OneUp pie plate was slower than I would have preferred, especially when turning over a low cadence. The larger the cog, the slower it rotates when you're pedalling, so this isn't exactly a surprise, but the difference in coming down off of the OneUp 45 and the Shimano 40 is night and day, with the former being quite a bit slower. The price to pay for that mountain taming gear, it seems.



Pinkbike's Take:
bigquotesFor a lot of riders, the big plus of OneUp's 45 tooth cog isn't just that it greatly increases the gearing range of their Shimano drivetrain, but that it does it without requiring the use or a different freehub body like SRAM does. Sure, you're not getting that small 10 tooth cog, but you are increasing the spread on the opposite end of the cassette, which is what the majority of riders will benefit from. In the end it's all about options: you can run a standard 11 - 40 tooth XTR or XT cassette, an 11 - 42 tooth XT cassette, or, for $90 USD, you can add OneUp's 45 tooth cog if an 11 - 45 tooth spread suits you and the terrain you ride. - Mike Levy




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220 Comments

  • + 131
 Pinkbike: Where people who ride a lift talk about how much harder their gearing is than yours!
  • + 9
 Best comment on this page!
  • + 22
 9/5 of Pinkbike readers are confused by that chart.
  • + 1
 Yeah, or just not spend the money & pedal in the same way you did before this was made? Can't say I've ever thought, Christ I need more gears, even when on my single speed!
  • + 10
 I'm here for the comments.
  • + 0
 "Even when on my single speed". Preach it cun'!

WTF are pussies doin' with 40+ tooth cogs? Climbin' walls at 5 cm/hour? Ô.o

The MOST anyone ever REALLY NEEDS, is a slow, a most of the time & a balls to the fvckin' wall!!! All neatly & elegantly wrapped in a problem free gearbox mid-bike. Until we get that. SS all the way baby!
  • + 5
 ^cool story bro..
  • + 81
 How about getting strong legs instead?
  • + 44
 upgrade your legs to carbon fibre
  • + 4
 I want but there is still a big crowd of weekend warriors in the market to cater to
  • + 17
 it all ends up in gear range. 11-45t almost covers 10-42t. do the math guys
  • + 59
 Or how about realizing that not everyone shuttles every trail or enjoys nice rolling hills. Some of us have walls to climb.
  • + 10
 theres still 2x drive trails out there that work perfectly fine .you just cant tell you friends you ride a 1 by
  • + 6
 Strong legs? I don't want to work hard. That will require effort on my part man.
  • + 7
 But what about those of us that want a 53-10 spread
  • + 67
 @driftmonster - but, according to the Pinkbike populace, everytime you shift a front derailleur, you kill a kitten, a baby seal, and cause a toddler to be left in a hot car all while waving the confederate flag. Only the absolute lowest scum of the earth would use a front derailleur, right? That's what i've been told by the members of Pinkbike, so it must be true.
  • + 10
 As @Lagr1980 pointed out it is all about range. This product allows you to increase your chainring size 2-4T (depending on your current setup) without losing any low end.
  • + 10
 Just get an ebike, then you wont need such a wide range. for those sarcasm-challenged among us, that was a joke
  • + 12
 Pretty soon they will just have a rear cog that replaces the rear wheel. 500 tooth cog makes climbing vertical walls a breeze.
  • + 4
 Yeah right, the next thing you're going to be asking for is six minute abs.
  • + 6
 math is good. this allows you to run a larger front chainring and not spin out on descents. whilst maintaining a low granny.
  • + 3
 I run a 34T front with xo1 rear mech, it's hard to believe that someone would actually want to run anything lower than a 30t front with the 42t rear cog. However, I can totally see a logical use for this cog. When I want to ride down easy trails or roads I often get spun out with the 34t and the 10t rear, if I was doing ultra long, non- technical stretches of trail or road I would go up to a 36 or 38 front ring and then put a bigger sprocket in the back. That would give me a similar feeling baby gear to what I currently run, and then a load of more fast range. Just look at the tour divide riders, the simplicity, range, weight of a 1x setup with super high end gearing for long non-technical descents would make perfect sense for a race like that.
  • + 4
 Still not as much range as my 2x10 w/ a 38/20 front and an 11-36 cassette that shifts super smooth.
  • + 4
 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 doors. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
  • + 4
 2x10 is def the way to go. Widest range. 20tooth action tech up front. Granny low.. always worked for every other form of off-roading we ever did. I even have a 20t "cheater" ring on the front of my freeride bike that i can toggle on to manually if i have to climb back up a long steep run.
  • + 7
 So suddenly 'fitness' is a 3 tooth difference in the cassette? 30 x 42 part of the in crowd. 30 x 45 you are a pussy. Run whatever the hell you want people! And btw Mike, why not run a 34 up front with a 10 sp cassette? Would that be fitterest?
  • + 1
 Haha! That's F'n funny!
  • + 1
 32x45 no longer a pussy, so it's actually a 2-tooth difference separating pussies from non pussies.
  • + 0
 teeth lips same thing Razz
  • + 1
 This should cost like $50. What does a replacement cog run anyway? Not the price of a cassette.
  • + 2
 Cuz 7 min abs is way better than 8 min abs
  • + 50
 "Here's a worm diagram thingie, so we look totally legit, and much smarter than you"

Seriously, does anyone understand that shit?
  • + 17
 I´d say I'm pretty good at reading diagrams but that one just doesn't make sense to me just a bunch of lines
  • - 1
 The diagram shows you the percentage shift from 1 gear to the next.
The graph is a very poor representation of the message it is trying to convey.
It is trying to show that 1up gear ratios are better than stock;
....SRAM, considerably better due to the lower gearing shift change per gear which in theory makes the bike easier to pedal when you change 1 gear. (The text validates this from a rider experience perspective)
.... Shimano on par or slightly better than stock Shimano depending on what gear you like to use.
>>>Personally I would like a cassette that mixes a road cassette (11-27) for what is normally 5th to top, then 4 climbing gears with the big gear purely there as a rest gear (we don't have long, steep climbs like California in the UK)
  • + 11
 What you need to know is that the green line, (One Up's) is the best line and the others (shimano and sram) are inferior. The data says so...
  • + 3
 If you have to understand a diagram like that just to choose which drive train you want you totally missed the point of mountain biking.
  • + 0
 What I find funny is Shimano spends lots of time and money to fine-tune the jumps between each gear for the smallest change in cadence percentage while providing a wide drive train. Then companies like One-up bring out products like this saying that it makes the transition smoother than what the manufacturer's say.

Yea, I want to play with my $350 dollar cassette and put in a steel gear, throwing off the middle range, to add one easier gear. If it's that big of a deal, you should get a smaller chain ring for your crank.
  • + 3
 Graphs like that drive me crazy. It would be much more readable if they used "straight with dots" instead of "squiggly" lines. I bet they originally used dots and had showed the full scale from 0 but some critical thinker realized it was understandable AND not convincing. So clicked the "squiggley line" button and normalize y axis in excel and got something weird and markety looking.
  • + 0
 Why on earth do we care about gears and speeds and cogs and what ever, that isn't the main thing about mtb is it. Go out and ride your bloody bike. I run 7 speed on one of my bikes and I use like two gears of those 7.
  • + 1
 That's not a gear graph. That's the elevation graph for the past 3 stages of the Tour de France.

I'm with @IronYETi just ride your bike
  • + 0
 @garcmol what about me then I also said go and ride why do you diss me aren't i as important haha
  • + 0
 I'm with @AMGoran just ride your bike

Wink
  • + 0
 Thanks xD
  • + 2
 Captaingrumpy, right!

Gear ratios are NOT a continuous function and should not be represented as such.

BTW, don't neg prop me for "talking math" instead of riding, it's 2 am and I'll be riding when the sun comes up...
  • + 0
 pfft you afraid of the dark or what go and ride now
  • + 41
 If you need a gear lower than 30t x 42t, maybe a 1x drivetrain isn't for you.
  • + 14
 exactly. 2 by still works...despite the hype
  • + 7
 Yeah but I push a 36T front ring on my xx1 bud-day. I can do all of my climbs with the stock 42 but its nice to not have to kill myself on every climb. You dig? The 44t on the back allows me to run a 36t top speed gear on the front.
  • + 5
 Any body got a 2 by who jumps multiple hits in a row and charges gnar who hasn't had any dropped chains?
  • + 14
 I've got a 2x. What's gnar? I'm not sure if there's any on my bike.
  • + 0
 Was just about to say the same thing! If you feel the need for a 45t then you really need to work on your fitness. Or just stick with 2x10.
  • + 20
 Talk about missing the point, it allows you to run a larger front ring.
  • + 10
 I don't need a gear lower than 30x42t, but I do need a gear HIGHER than 30x11t, and paying $300 for a SRAM cassette plus XD driver is out of the question when I can build an entire drivetrain for $300 using OneUp's option.
  • + 4
 If ur running a 30/42, this allows a nice switch to 32/45. Great for places like laguna where its xtremes up/down, with peloton road transfers.
  • + 6
 @TheRaven yes!! Its about higher gears, not lower.
  • + 2
 @moefosho you don't know me! Seriously though more options and competition in the drive-train world benefits everyone.
  • - 7
flag HankBizzle (Jul 15, 2015 at 12:55) (Below Threshold)
 Still, if you feel the need for a 30t up front then you need to work on your fitness! Unless you're on a 29er.
  • + 4
 Still, if you feel the need to make sweeping generalizations about people based on their chainring preference, you need to shut up! Unless you're on a 36er unicycle.
  • + 3
 The fact that Moe is still getting upvoted, just goes to show the absolute ignorance of their own sport on this site.
  • + 4
 ITS ABOUT HIGHER GEARS, NOT LOWER
  • - 2
 If your tapping out with a 30x11 you sir are very fast or just ride a ton of fire roads.
  • + 0
 Maybe I am very fast...I sure don't feel like it. But I don't generally ride fire roads real fast because the only time i'm on them is to climb UP to the trail. I do encounter alot of fast singletrack through the tall grass fields that punctuate the descents I ride though. My current 2x10 has JUST ENOUGH high end for my rides, going with a 30t chainring as I would have to without the OneUp conversion robs me of two top gears, whereas I only lose one with the 32t up front.
  • + 1
 Guess it's just preference. I run a 29er so a 30 up front with my xx1 works for my purposes. Very rarely I drop into my 42 unless I'm totally gassed! Coming from a 32x36 on a 26er I'm in heaven climbing the 29er. But that's just me.
  • + 3
 My issue is the pedaling down a trail. Yes it happens and with my 30 x 11 the cadence is all wrong. 2 by solves it and let's me run a shorter cage and chain. Works for me. To each his own
  • - 2
 If you need a gear lower than 30t x 42t, maybe mountain biking isn't right for you.
  • + 4
 That's not a smart generalization to make. 30x42t is plenty for anything I ride...but i'm not about to assume that I ride the hardest trails there is. I see so many guys saying things like "I've ridden all over the world with 36x36t as my lowest and never needed more", yet I would bet my bike that those same guys would not be able to finish several of my local trails on that gear. Don't make the mistake of assuming that just because you've seen some crazy trails, that there aren't crazier or tougher trails out there. There are a couple climbs in my area that you simply physically cannot stay in the saddle for (you would actually roll back off your bike)...yet i'm sure someone somewhere is riding steeper trails.
  • + 38
 idk if I can trust the legitimacy of OneUp's gear chart when "descending" is spelled incorrectly.
  • + 31
 good pint
  • + 5
 HAHA, good spot... the worm squiggles distracted me!
  • + 32
 I cannot even remember what is my rear cassette. I think 11x32. When I struggle on climbs I feel something good is happening.
  • + 3
 Best comment of the page.
  • + 31
 One up is blowin up! Every time I turn around they got a new cog or chainring to outdo s#It that just dropped like last month! Keep it up!!!
  • + 25
 I'm here to read the man-up vs wide-range comments.
  • + 3
 here you go @chyu 1:1 or you'll be faster pushing your bike up
  • + 15
 I need a rim that had teeth profiled into the side of it, so I can just wrap my chain right around my whole damn wheel. Get a nice cadence that way.
  • + 4
 Bishopsmike... that man is a genius!!! Give him a Pike with golden tokens!
  • + 3
 All these teeth..no Grill
  • + 7
 Funnily enough I suggested attaching a sprocket directly to the rim to Jon at One Up but he was having none of it..... I like the idea of Man Up components though. A cassette with ten 11 tooth sprockets would be a sure-fire winner.
  • + 7
 Man-Up components cassette expander, converts your 11speed XTR 11-40 cassette to 29-40
  • + 14
 I've mastered this technique for steep climbs whereby I grab the brakes, shift my weight back and down, then lunge forward/up and release the brakes, repeat. Kind of looks like humping a moose, but it's equally effective in any gear, just as fast as walking, and I don't have to get off the bike.
  • + 5
 I would like to see a video of that
  • + 14
 People don't understand the point of this I don't think. I run a 32T ring with 11-42t cassette using one-up expander. that's plenty of gearing to get me up 99% of the hills I come across. I have no issues with wanting a lower gear. But if I had the 11 speed XT I would definitely get this, not so that I can run an even lower granny gear but so that could pair it with a 34t up front and actually get a bit more gearing for the downhills. Its all about range, not just getting the lowest gear possible.
  • + 13
 Just waiting for 1up to release platform shoes to make 15% large strides when pushing up the hill Big Grin

I seriously like this a lot. I only climb because I have to, it might as well be easy. For those making "man up" comments, I expect you to go to single speed rigid or shut up. We all use gears. We are all somewhere on the wimp scale. Oh, and lets not forget all the other conveniences we use like electric windows in our cars, oh, and cars.
  • + 0
 I actually ride my bike to work and back so not really using a car.
  • + 10
 Ok this has just got to stop. Dérailleur type Drivetrains have peaked. Just look at Shimanos latest offering, playing catch ups with SRAM. For F%#^€ sake can we please move on. Come 2025 we will look back at the derailleure dark ages and bam! double face palm. What worked for Road cyclist is just crap for MTB. Industry please stop trying to polish a terd.. Ok rant over.
  • + 7
 Let's see those awesome and efficient gearboxes....oh wait, there those ain't all that great. due to cost and size. And when you say moving on, do you mean E-bikes? Because it looks like we're going that way. Rant over rant!!!
  • + 2
 @xoticx what alternative are you proposing?
  • + 9
 xD freehub bodies cost about the same as a oneUp addition and allow you to run a stock SRAM 10-42 cassette that shifts better than any other system made. I don't get it. Just get SRAM 1x11. I really, truly don't understand the issue. I do understand that my bike shifts better than yours because it has stock XO1 that's now 1 1/2 years old.
  • + 6
 Indeed. 11-45 is equivalent to 10-40.9. So SRAM has more range with 10-42.

Why do I need to buy a Shimano cassette and tweak it when I can buy a stock SRAM cassette and be a happy guy?

Adding teeth on the big side isn't as effective as removing teeth on the small side:-). One tooth on a 10 cog is 10%, one tooth on a 40 cog is 2.5%. Simple maths:-).
  • + 2
 yeah, someone did the homework...
  • + 6
 Well I guess i'll be the one to answer...

X1 groupset with XD driver = $770 (assuming you have a convertible wheelset)
XT Groupset with OneUp 45t = $450 (doesn't matter what wheelset you have)

So I guess i'm the antithesis of you, I don't get why anyone would bother with SRAM, especially when Shimano is widely known to have better shifting (in stock form of course).
  • - 1
 People bother with Sram so they can look down on you with your petty working class XT Drivetrain. Good luck winning a race with that monstrosity.
  • + 8
 @ryan83 - haha yeah that's XT, the redneck's choice.

I wonder if anyone will EVER win a race on an XT drivetrain?

(Insert "rolleyes" smiley if you were serious, "cheers" if you were joking.)
  • + 2
 If you buy a bike that comes with Shimano 11spd, a $90 cog is a hell of a lot cheaper than a $75-100 freehub, and a $250+ cassette.

There are also idiots like me who still ride bikes with 9 and 10 speed drivelines, and it's nice to be able to take your 11spd trail bike's wheel off and simply swap a cassette in order to install it on your 9spd XC bike when you taco a wheel. Interchangeability is cool.
  • + 2
 @maxyedor - actually saying "there are idiots like me who..." is fairly misleading as you are actually in the majority. It would be more accurate to say "there are actually some people running 1x11 these days". 90% of the market is still on 2x10 or 3x9, and plain-jane Shimano hubs. So for 90% of the market, XT M8000 is the only non-astronomically priced 1x11 option. For all of those people, even the lowly GX is a $1000 "upgrade".
  • + 2
 Sarcasm doesn't always work on the internet @TheRaven

With how much backlash any new hub or BB standard gets on PB, I'm amazed at how many people suggest you just suck it up and get a different driver instead of a One-Up cog to achieve the range you want. I really like what One Up is doing, take existing parts, working within existing standards and make modifications to help people make their bikes work better for their personal style of riding, and do it for less than the cost of a set of tires.
  • + 2
 TheRaven,

I'm not sure where you are getting these numbers:

"X1 groupset with XD driver = $770 (assuming you have a convertible wheelset)
XT Groupset with OneUp 45t = $450 (doesn't matter what wheelset you have)"

For these drivetrains, its really just the cassette, derailleur, and shifter. Cranks and chainrings aren't limited to these two companies, and are compatible with other options. So its really just about the shifter, cassette, and derailleur.

I got there numbers for shiter/derailleur/cassette setups from Arts Cyclery (who have great deals):

Shimano XT: ~$325 + 90 (One-Up conversion) = $415
SRAM X1: ~465

That doesn't include the driver. But lots of wheels now come with options, so you only have to pay the price for the driver if you already have wheels with the older freehub. That's not a foregone conclusion. Even if you include the extra $75 for the driver, the difference isn't nearly what you are suggesting.

But this isn't apples to apples. The SRAM stuff works better, since its not a conversion kit. I've been using XO1 stuff for a while, and it is absolutely idiot proof. The XD driver works better than the oldschool toothed design.
  • + 2
 @ jerrytek - First, you need Cassette, Derailleur, Shifter, N/W, and Chain (at minimum, and SRAM/compatible chainrings are not the same price as Shimano/compatible), and second, NO ONE has X1 for the price you quoted. Here are the real best prices for the necessary parts:

Chainreaction.com - XT Groupset at with OneUp - $330 + 90 = $420
Artscyclery.com - X1 Groupset with XD driver - $570 + 80 = $650

Also, which works better is highly subjective. From my experience SRAM shifting is about the same as expanded Shimano, which is to say, 95% as good as stock Shimano. All three options are idiot proof.
  • + 1
 TheRaven,

"First, you need Cassette, Derailleur, Shifter, N/W, and Chain"

Of course. But the N/W ring/crankset and chain are compatible across platforms, and thus would cost the same. You don't need the entire groupset. I'm not sure where you are getting those figures.

Art's prices:
-X1 cassette: 240
-X1 derailleur: 160
-X1 shifter: 65
Total: 465

I got those figures directly off Arts. Look it up.

The chain and N/W rings are the same price between the two systems. Or you can use alternatives like Race Face. But on both of the sites you listed - Arts and Chainreaction - SRAM chains and chainrings are actually cheaper. Look it up.

The idea that Shimano is way cheaper than SRAM is a myth. Unless you are talking about ghetto 1x10, the price between the two is pretty comparable. The difference is that the SRAM system doesn't include aftermarket conversion kits that run outside the intended parameters of the drivetrain.

Finally, which works better isn't all that subjective. The 11x45 conversion that is reviewed above is a setup that was beyond what Shimano intended when they designed the system, and that is why shifts to the 45T cog is slow. Read the review. They actually tested it! It isn't just idle speculation.

The reason why SRAM has quickly become the industry OE standard for 1x drivetrains is because it works better than cobbled together conversion systems. Thats the selling point. If you already have a 10-speed drivetrain, you can put together a relatively cheap conversion. But that doesn't apply to the system that we are talking about, which is a new 2015/6 setup.
  • + 1
 Again you left out the XD driver which you WILL NEED if you are upgrading an existing 1x10 bike to the X1 option. So figuring an average for $80 for the XD driver ($60-$130 being the actual range), you are looking at $545 for X1, Using that same scenario, XT with the OneUp upgrade now costs $320.

If you don't have a convertible wheelset on your existing 1x10 bike, tack another $400 minimum on that price for a new wheelset or $250 for XD-equipped hub and rebuild. For XT, you can skip this step.

Not seeing a scenario here where there is not a big price difference.

The reason "cobbled together conversion systems" exist is BECAUSE OF SRAM. When a third party can sell a $20 cog that requires the purchase of an entire cassette for enough to make $70 profit and still come in 50% cheaper than the competition, it's a no-brainer.
  • + 2
 Compare it to gx. I think i amazoned a chain, shifter, casette and it was only $320 or so. Even if you need an xd driver its less than 400 all-in.

I still choose my barbaric 2x10 tho
  • + 0
 @UtahBikeMike - Why compare it to GX? If you want an XT level drivetrain, you need X1 or better on SRAM's side. GX is SLX level.

Besides, even compared to GX, XT is STILL cheaper. And lighter.

There is no price argument for SRAM. That's a fact. There's nothing WRONG with SRAM either, so if you like SRAM better, then by all means, go for it. Hell i'm here talking on price despite the fact that i'm running XTR currently, so i'm all for buying what you like. But when it comes to best deal on a quality 1x11 drivetrain, XT will own that category until SLX M6000 is released.
  • + 1
 TheRaven,

You are bad at math!

Where are you getting the $320 figure for XT? Again, here is the minimal price:

XT derailleur: $120
XT shifter: $75
XT cassette: $130
One-Up conversion: $90

Total cost: $415

Also, not everyone will need to buy the driver separate. That is only if you already have a traditional wheelset. When I switched, I was also looking for new wheels, and it was a no-cost option. As SRAM has come to completely dominate the high end trailbike/all-mountain market, most wheelsets are available with XD as a standard option. With major improvements in wheels the past few years (super-wide rims, hookless rims, dropping cost of carbon) and new standards coming out, this will become even less of an issue.

But even if you include the driver, the cost is only $130 more. That's a far different situation than the crazy numbers you are throwing around. And we haven't even discussed GX, which is even cheaper.

There is also a weight consideration. X1 stuff is all lighter than XT. The cassette alone is 100 grams heavier, and that's not including the 65 gram One-Up weight penalty. The shifter and derailleur are about 25 grams heavier each. That's nearly half a pound for just those three components.

Finally, its laughable for you to suggest that XT "owns the category" for 1x11 drivetrains. Look at the market! SRAM is absolutely dominating OE sales on bikes that come with 1x drivetrains. If you buy a mid- to high-end mountain bike, it probably has a SRAM drivetrain. Shimano missed the boat on 1x drivetrains, and continues to try to convince people that they really need 2x setups.

You are clearly an extreme Shimano partisan. To be honest, I've never really understood that position. I use both Shimano and SRAM components on my bikes, and both work well. But in the particular case of 1X MTB drivetrains, SRAM is simply a better option. Shimano doesn't believe in it, and that is why they only developed 1x11 when the market absolutely forced them to do so. Thats why SRAM is better in this area. If you are looking for an XC bike, Shimano is probably better. Saint is awesome. But SRAM xx1 is a better solution for trail and all-mountain bikes. The price difference isn't that extreme if you are comparing 11-speed transmissions, and SRAMs don't require using aftermarket conversions that go beyond the intended use of the products. Again, read the review above!
  • + 1
 Sigh...where to start...I don't have enough nopes...

Ok here we go, cassette/derailleur/shifter:

Cassette - www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-xt-m8000-11-speed-cassette/rp-prod135828
Derailleur - www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-xt-m8000-shadow-11-speed-rear-mech/rp-prod135893
Shifter - www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-xt-m8000-11-speed-trigger-shifter/rp-prod135894well

That's $241.47 + $90 for the OneUp parts = $331.47. So I was off by $11, which could be accounted for by exchange rates.

Now you need to make up your mind - are we upgrading an existing 10 speed bike or building a new one from parts? Cause if we are upgrading an existing bike, you NEED to include an XD drive in the cost. If we are building a bike from parts, then we need to include the rest of the drivetrain. Which will it be?
  • + 1
 Why comare it to gx ? Because slx is still 10 speed and we're talking 1x11 here. Its also cheap and I'm assuming it will work well if its like my x7/x9 builds ive had in the past.

For the record, i run shimano xt/xtr/slx builds on all of my bikes, with the fatbike being the exception using 2x10 sram x9. It's not bad enough to justify swapping to shimano. I prefer shimano.

I've ridden 1x10 conversions and they suck. Seriously, i could never get them to shift right on the upper or lower end of the casette. Once i adjusted them to work right on one side, the other half of the casette shifted like crap. I had 500 miles on my wolftooth setup and returned to 2x10.

I demo'd a nomad and it was 32t front, x01 build. I didnt have an issue climbing but i found i didn't use the top 3 (smaller) cogs, so i could have dropped it to a 30t front if it was my bike. That impressed me. It also shifted like my 10 speed x9. Super easy to setup and just works, unlike the casette adapters. I also found myself shifting 1 cog, instead of 2 like i tend to do on my 2x setup.

Shimano prices are coming down, as the links you posted were lower prices than last time i checked. If gx and xt prices are the same - I'll go xt 11 speed. That's a no brainer. I'll stay away from conversions, though. Learned my lesson there.
  • + 1
 Sure, however GX is meant to compete with SLX and is not going to compare well to XT. It's not like SRAM doesn't have a worthy XT competitor, they do, and it's X1. GX is going to feel like crap compared to XT.

Likewise, while I currently have Shimano XT or XTR on all my bikes, I have tried every angle, every dealer, and every MTB site's classified section I could find for the past three months to try to piece together a SRAM 1x11 setup that is cost effective. No matter what I found or what I tried, I could buy a BRAND NEW XT 2x10 setup cheaper. It's absolutely ludicrous that used 1x11 costs more than new 2x10, since you are getting LESS parts with 1x11. The whole point of 1x11 is LESS. Why does it cost MORE?!

On top of that, everyone that I trust and have spoken to PERSONALLY tells me that Shimano makes a more reliable drivetrain. These are guys that ride both (actually a few of them SELL both) and have essentially told me that the only reason to go SRAM, when you have a choice, is because Shimano doesn't have a viable 1x option. Obviously that was before. Now that they do, the two guys that I ride with that are currently on SRAM drivetrains both intend to switch to Shimano as soon as M8000 is attainable.

I also will be going 1x very soon. I'm testing a hacked XT 1x10 on my spare bike build that I should be starting within a month or so, and as long as I can make do with that, I will be converting my primary bike (XTR 2x10) to 1x using either the M8000 cassette and 45t expander, or possibly an X1 cassette (if I can manage to find it for a non-laughable price...since the XD driver for my wheelset is $130).
  • + 1
 1x11 being more expensive is like when you buy an expensive, track oriented porsche. They charge you extra to remove the door panels, radio and ac. Less is more, so less is more.
  • + 1
 Well sure but generally those types of cars actually come with adjustable shocks, race springs, race brakes, R compound tires...etc. So you still are actually getting more. Like the Z28...they remove HVAC, Stereo/Nav, sound deadening and the rear seat. But they also add a magnetic suspension, carbon ceramic brakes, carbon fiber downforce management, Pilot Sport Cup tires, and recaro buckets.

In the case of 1x, they remove one chainring and replace the other with a special chainring, then take away a shifter, cable, and derailleur and raise the price by 40%.
  • + 7
 someday grasshopper, you will be passed up a hill by someone spinning smaller gears. You'l stand up and mash 'em as best you can, and they'll still pull away. Other days, you won't.
So what's that mean? Nothin'. Ive been riding off road for 35 years. Went from TA cranks, mafac cantilevers with migura moto levers, and hite rites. We had to use the same bike for XC, downhill and trials at races - and everyone did all three events. Now I've got carbon everything. I'm also older and slower, and I can promise you that only one thing hasn't changed from all those years on bikes.
Gears are just personal choice. You CAN push almost anything. Some people are going to spin more, some less. Until you've tried a different RANGE of gears, you won't know what works best for you. This aint suspension or brakes or tires where there's a legitimate difference in performance. This is a chain on a cog. Both brands work fantastic. More options allow for more people to find the right set up for them, and that set up will change with time - I don't ride the gears I ran when I was 22 now that I'm 45 cause it'd make me slower.
  • + 3
 You tell 'em,J. My first mtb had 28x28 for lightest gear and I could pedal those 32lbs up most anything. 25 years have passed,and 24x36 doesn't seem that easy on some of those climbs. Go figure.
  • + 1
 throw a 20 or 21T up front, Huge difference for about $30 on Amazon.com
  • + 6
 45 tooth... is this April 1? That is a gear of clown-bike pedalling proportions! I think One Up makes some great stuff at good prices but honestly if a 42 is too hard to turn them maybe going back to a 2x granny is a more practical option...
  • + 4
 as others have said, you're missing the point - you can then install a larger front ring, giving you more top end, and keeping the low end the same. eg 32/42 to 34/45
  • + 1
 @xeren - all due respect, I understand the intention but don't understand why anyone would need it. I live and ride in the mountains and run 32/36 which climbs everything. Sometimes it's a grunt, but isn't that what mountain bike climbs should be regularly? Shouldn't trail riding be tough sometimes?
The part I don't get is that it's for XTR. If you ride XTR part spec, then you are probably passionate about riding. If you are passionate about riding, then don't you ride lots? And have strong legs and lungs?
If your intention is to run a 45/11 with a 36 or 38 ring and blaze fire roads then ok, sure. But 34/40 is more than enough low end for trail IMO.
  • + 1
 @g123 my answer to your many questions is "not necessarily"
  • + 1
 Next they would say they want a 36t ring with 48t expander and goes on.
  • + 9
 im still on 11-36
  • + 4
 I think it's funny to see comments about 'get stronger'. Complete crap. I suppose you've never been injured? I've done enough miles on 2 wheels to lap the earth so spare me the macho sh1t, it's not an option for many folks to grind a big gear all the time. Many of the best bikes only offer 1x setups these days, so there is no way to reclaim those lost bottom gears from the 2x world unless you go 24T up front and kill your range. Thus 45 is a great option to spare my knees while i rehab. And guess what - i'll keep it even when healthy, because i prefer to spin than grind. I'll be getting a 45 on my next drivetrain. great job one up!
  • + 4
 You know what I take away from that graph? The variation in change in difficulty (or ease) of pedaling is actually pretty consistent, and this company is trying to skew the axes to make it seem like these small variations matter, or that the XTR cassette is not descending-friendly without double-tap shifting. Buncha crap.
I do like this product as it can help the Shimano guys catch up to the Sram 1x11 guys without having to change the freehub, but it does add weight.
On a side note, I'm surprised to see people defending 2x drivetrains here... once you go 1x, the simplicity, quiet, and reduced weight will keep you there. I've been running a single chainring on a 9 speed since 9 speed came out. Don't knock it 'til you try it!
  • + 4
 one up is not for everyone. it does help though if you want to use a bigger chainring for the downs but don't want to lose any climbing power on the ups. if you haven't made the swap to a 1x setup and love your 2x then great! but for all of us that enjoy the simplicity of 1x that can't climb like a WC xc racer one up is a great idea. BETTER THAN BOOST AT LEAST
  • + 7
 One of my favorite companies at the moment.
  • + 2
 I've gone the other direction. Running a 9-24t 7s converted 10s cassette on my DH bike to be able to have 30t chainring (9-30ratio is almost the same as 11-36), which gives me an extra 1cm of ground clearance by my cranks. THAT matters!

(The hub I run is a Canfield Bros microdrive)
  • + 5
 The moment you realize that the XT 11-42 cassette is cheaper than the 45 cog.
  • + 9
 The next moment you realize you can buy the entire XT drivetrain for the cost of an X1 cassette plus XD driver.
  • + 7
 love One Up!
  • + 2
 Now I undertand the rationale behind these larger wheel sizes, it's just so that when you put your dinner plate sized sprockets on the back the chain doesn't drag along the ground on the run from the bottom derailleur pulley to the chainring...
  • + 6
 Ok this is $90, but the ten speed version is $120??
  • + 13
 It's because you just spent a grand on the XTR groupo so they thought they'd give those people a break.
  • + 4
 The 10 speed version is $90/$85 depending on size.
  • + 0
 Whoops. Sorry. Downvote me, I like one up.
  • + 1
 I have all of my and my family's bikes on 1X. I have the XTR 11spd and 45+18T kit.
Please make a SS ovals for RF Next.start at 28,30,32 (10-11% ovality).
Many want them.
Perfect 1x setup includes the oval ring up front but the aluminum ones wear too quickly.
  • + 1
 "OneUp Components is quickly becoming the name that most will likely think of due to the company's quickly expanding lineup of wide-range cassette solutions".

Yeah or due to the fact that they patent totally stupidiotarded junk while PB promotes the shit outta the company. Could be a bit of that too. :/
  • + 1
 Anyone ever wonder if 1x setups are mechanically better than a 2x? Form the surface it seems like it is being simpler but I always thought your putting more stress on your cassette and derailleur. Especially with the chainline you end up with in the extreme sides of the cassette. If you don't want to run a 1:1 ratio 1x setup what is the actual best solution all hype and marketing bs aside?
  • + 1
 My One Up 42 conversion from an 11-36 shifts like crap and it breaks cables more often and needs way more mauntenance. Their 16 tooth replacement is lame too. you can rarely do a single shift out of it. Aren't they making a full range cassette? I would try that for sure but these conversions are janky.
  • + 2
 My e-thirteen gear is klunky too.
  • + 1
 These threads make me laugh. There's one guy locally that's pushing a 34/36 combo up the hills here--and he used to race xc at the world cup level. As for "spinning out" at the top end on some of these gears you guys are talking about--you're not doing it on "trails" around here. Gearing needs depend on your terrain and fitness--what anybody else is using is completely irrelevant if it works for you. 1x's are great--if you can arrive at an appropriate gear spread FOR YOU with a bloody 52 tooth gear on the back, so be it.
  • + 1
 I like the direction One Up is taking our drive trains. We soon will be able to ditch the front derailleur on all of our bikes and have a real wide range gear selection. this will let our legs work back into riding in the spring when we are a little out of shape so we can make all those brutal climbs, yet by the time fall hits and our fitness is at its best we don't have to change out front chain rings just because we want a little more top end speed. Kudos One Up for coming up with innovation products a year or two ahead of the two big S's, they are sure to follow suite...
  • + 1
 I am running a 34t up front and the OneUp 45T on my XTR Di2 setup. It works great as advertised. Shifts are crisp and I have absolutely no complaints or problems with this set up. Lots of hills here so it has been put to the test, and still do not have to sacrifice speed on the flats. 90 bucks was a bit expensive for two cogs and a spacer, but a good answer to the single ring/11 x 42 XTR gearing issue.
  • + 1
 Just put this on my bike. Worked great until my first steep climb when the rivets on the carbon spiders made terrible noises. I heard from someone this has been a problem with the new XTR. Thats what you get for buying the "best" most expensive parts.
  • + 5
 I'll wait until the 48t is available.
  • + 1
 I've got a good idea. Why doesn't One up invent a cog that attaches to the side of the rim. No need for any messing about with the cogs then.......might need a bit of tweaking with the rear mech and chain though.....
  • + 1
 Yes! And then we can go for hubless wheels! www.leussink.com.au/new/eng27.html
  • + 4
 Seriously?! This is getting ridiculous!!!
  • + 1
 I tried to remove 22t and 44t rings and leave the middle 32t. But the cassette was 11-34 and on some climbs it wasn't enough. Waiting to put the xt 11-42 in the rear and leave the 32t front. Will see.
  • + 1
 Just make a 34/36 chain ring with that NW thing but for a double crank and all will be happy ,at least I will cause a 26/28 granny gear will be very useful some times (just in case).
  • + 1
 Wouldn't it have been easier just to make a 10T for the bottom of the shimano cassette and ditch the 11T?

Then change the front cog to the next size down?
  • + 3
 New hub design or copy Sram? If you are gonna design a new hub why not 9 tooth like bmx?
  • + 3
 The XTR and XT 11sp group still use a traditional freehub body and wont fit a 10t cog
  • + 2
 10t cogs don't fit a standard 9/10spd freehub body, they're too small to actually fit the freehub. that's why sram made their xd driver
  • + 1
 Thanks guys. Didnt realise XD drivers were there for the 10T - thought it was so SRAM could get 11 cogs on instead of 10, and Shimano had managed a way to do this without the XD driver.
  • + 3
 Just M.T.F.U! Or ride a 2x or 3x.
  • + 2
 Velominati Rule No. 5!
  • + 2
 has anyone ever thought about unsprung weight with range extenders and cassetter getting bigger and bigger ?
  • + 2
 Don't forget you're removing a small steel cog and adding a larger, extensively milled aluminum one... so you might just be breaking even - doubtful - but you'll be close.

I'd be more concerned about how the altered chain angle from the 1x11 with a giant rear cog will effect suspension - in terms of squat... you're inching ever closer to the moto world with a tiny front cog and large rear - where squat is a very real effect (and useful in some circumstances)
  • + 18
 I think you mis-typed www.weightweenies.com and got redirected here. It happens.
  • + 1
 @chamberlink a few ounces here or there is like a pound when it's on a spinning wheel. even if you're not a weight weenie, you should care about how heavy your wheels are
  • + 3
 on a rotating wheel, the weight at the rim/tire has a greater effect than a few oz at the axle.
  • + 1
 viatch-don't even get me started on the whole unsprung /rotating weight question.
26 goes to 27.5 qnd 29. These tires and rims weigh almost 300-400 grams more in many cases. Now you are talking 27.5+ and 29+? When does it f*cking end? When I buy a new KTM and go back to moto? Prices are less!
  • + 0
 Shimano relying on third party components to keep up while denying SRAM was on the right path all the time. It's easy, if your fit get X1/X01, if not, stay with 2x o even 3x. It's a no-brainer.
  • + 4
 What if, like 80% of the MTB owning public, you would like to go 1x, but don't have a convertible wheelset and $600 to spend on a new drivetrain?
  • + 1
 So, these days the 'bike industry' has decided to make: cranks smaller and cassettes bigger (bigger the wheel size, bigger the cogs). Yes, I know....shut-UP.
  • + 2
 Shimano 105 fifty tooth on the back next !!
  • + 1
 Uh, no. No need for that on a road bike.
  • + 1
 Hmm, tisti cog might be bigger than my brake rotor... ... I think I will keep 2x.
  • - 2
 45t? Really? If you need a 45t cog to climb, you may as well dismount and walk, it will be quicker and faster. And if the point is a bigger chainring can be mounted up front, now you are sacrificing ground clearance. Seriously, people need to get their fitness up, and stop looking for bailouts. Unfortunately, this is a sign that electric assist, will eventually take a firm root in mtbing.
  • + 1
 @dirttrailsociety It's to get wider range. 45 out back doesn't mean you have a 30 up front, it allows you to run a bigger ring in the front to gain top end and still climb the same hills.

For example... SRAM 1x11 with 32T chainring gives about the same overall range as this setup with a 36T chainring.

32x10 = 36x11
32x42 = 36x45

Approximately, of course. With the 11T cog on Shimano instead of 10T with SRAM, it's the only way to give the same overall range.
  • + 1
 我更在乎重量,所以SRAM XX1 X01 飞轮才是最佳选择!有钱任性
  • + 1
 this is awesome will be looking to run this with either a 32t or 30t up front
  • + 1
 help me out here: Why would a single sprocket (OneUp 45T) cost as much as a complete cassette (Shimano)?
  • + 1
 That's a great question, almost as great as the question - why does a SRAM cassette cost as much as an ENTIRE SHIMANO DRIVETRAIN?!
  • + 1
 I'm concerned with one ups logic on thinking a 9 tooth cog jump on the sram pie plate conversion is a good idea.
  • + 1
 Here's me running a 1x9 with a 32t and 11-34 on my hardtail...
  • - 3
 Chances are anyone buying a bike with an XTR cassette on it, already has the fitness/strength to not need a 45T cog. I do most of my climbing in a 34T ring and 28T cog, and only resort to the 32T for the crest to bring my pulse rate down a bit. I rarely ever need to use my granny ring except for sustained grinder climbs. Most XC racers in the early 90s were ascending fire roads up major ski mountains like Bromont/Mont Sainte Anne in quebec or Vail in colorado or Mammoth in california with even steeper gearing than that, and they did it without uberlight 29ers, low pressure tubeless/tubular tires, and fancy suspension.
  • + 4
 Not everyone who buys xtr kit/equipped bikes is fit , plenty of middle aged beer bellies struggling around trail centres these days on the latest bling bikes, and they'll likely have the disposable income to add more cost (and more weight) to that xtr cassette...
  • + 5
 That's not always true because it usually goes:
Normal people - not the nicest stuff, but fast.
Fat rich people - top of the line bike, but slow as sh*t.
Then there's sponsored riders - Top of the line, and fast as sh*t.
  • - 3
 For me a 34 cog with 28 rear provides a 1.21 gear ratio which happens to be perfect for trials moves pedal punching up technical sections. If it is too steep to pedal punch up I doubt an easier gear would help much. I guess it would be useful on some climbs though if you were feeling lazy but with IMBA trail standards that usually isn't an issue.
  • + 8
 deeeight - you disappoint me, you with your love for science and facts, posting data on cogs and rings without tiniest mention of wheel size and tyre weight/size. Crank lenght as well please
  • - 4
flag zephxiii (Jul 15, 2015 at 4:17) (Below Threshold)
 If you have XTR you better be fit. end of story.
  • + 3
 People don't understand the point of this I don't think. I run a 32T ring with 11-42t cassette using one-up expander. that's plenty of gearing to get me up 99% of the hills I come across. I have no issues with wanting a lower gear. But if I had the 11 speed XT I would definitely get this, not so that I can run an even lower granny gear but so that could pair it with a 34t up front and actually get a bit more gearing for the downhills. Its all about range, not just getting the lowest gear possible.
  • + 5
 @whitey161 oh stop already. This is pinkbike, logical explanations do not belong. Comprehension- that's for the birds, bitching about price and tell people to man up is where it's at.
  • + 2
 @Kitejumping not sure where you live, but you must not have any 2000 foot climbs like i do. i'm not saying 45T is necessary, but 34/28 is just ridiculous for anything but a short technical section
  • + 2
 Again, for those completely missing the point...the 45t is not to give you a lower low gear, it's to enable the use of a larger front chainring without losing your CURRENT LOW GEAR to gain higher gears. This is for guys like myself still on 2x drivetrains because 11-42t does not offer enough range on the trials we ride and a 10-42t cassette costs more than an entire XT drivetrain.
  • + 1
 @xeren I guess I'm alone with that gearing choice but I've done a few rides with 2000ft climbs on vacation with that gearing in CO and UT without any problems, on newer imba designed trails (pictured rock up wild turkey in CO is a good example) the grade never gets steep enough to become a problem and you can just cruise on up. I think at a certain point you get used to spinning a harder gear on climbs and from a technical standpoint 1.2 is the magic trials ratio on 26" for any technical spots.
  • + 1
 @Kitejumping you really are alone in that - i've literally never heard of anyone climbing mountains in that gear. maybe you should go pro
  • + 1
 I think E bikes are great but wouldn't buy a 45T chain ring. Go figure.
  • + 1
 Finally there's a single speed cog I can run with my 22T chainring.
  • + 1
 I can't stop smiling at that chart. It's so bad it's funny!
  • - 3
 Ok, I'm going to get roasted here, but... I just don't get it!
I run 36t front and 11-36 10 speed rear, I rode last year with the same setup, from short trail rides to all day epics in the Pyrenees, never did I need anything lower than a 1:1 pedal to wheel rotation, if it's that steep you run out of traction or lift the front!
  • + 1
 With this gearing you could probably make those climbs without losing traction or lifting the front and still never need a 36-11
  • + 1
 Feel free to come check out my local trails. With 36x36 as your lowest gear, you wouldn't survive the first mile. Hell the trail I just rode on tuesday starts out with a 2.5 MILE climb. I've seen racers tackle that climb and they are on their 22x28, 22x32 or 24x32 by the top if they are still on their bike. I'm not sure i'd buy someone claiming to ride that trail on a 1x with a 11-36 cassette without video proof.
  • + 1
 ok, so that graphic just showed that the SRAM cassete sucks ?
  • + 0
 for 80 degrees of climb?? hmmmm ill just push mah bike Big Grin
  • - 2
 People are funny... "XD driver costs too much... so I'll spend MORE on adapter cog bullshit to Frankenstein my Shimano setup and still end up with less range than SRAM 1x11"
  • + 1
 Have you not read ANY of the comments? XT, even with the $90 OneUp setup, is cheaper than even GX WITHOUT THE XD DRIVER!!

Scroll up for the discussion.
  • + 0
 @TheRaven lol you're so wrong

Using the numbers above--XT derailleur: $120, XT shifter: $75, XT cassette: $130, One-Up conversion: $90 = $420
I googled GX (bicycling.com -- full retail, can be found cheaper elsewhere)--derailleur $115, shifter $43, cassette $144, XD driver $50-100 depending on model = $352-402

Oh, look, cheaper AND wider gear range AND not some butchered frankenstein piece of shit
  • + 1
 Apparently you don't read well...from my comment above...

Cassette - www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-xt-m8000-11-speed-cassette/rp-prod135828
Derailleur - www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-xt-m8000-shadow-11-speed-rear-mech/rp-prod135893
Shifter - www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-xt-m8000-11-speed-trigger-shifter/rp-prod135894well

That's $241.47 + $90 for the OneUp parts = $331.47. So I was off by $11, which could be accounted for by exchange rates.

And yes, that's even cheaper than GX, and likely still shifts better than SRAM despite being "butchered".
  • + 0
 @TheRaven apparently you're too stupid to realize that comparing discounted overseas products (chainreaction) to full f*cking retail for GX isn't fair.

Until GX hits the market, the only fair comparison is full retail vs full retail
  • + 0
 And even if GX is more, you get more. But since it isn't more expensive, this hack job bullshit sucks.
  • + 1
 I used the prices that the SRAM fanboy gave me. I assumed that SRAM guys are savvy enough to know the best places to get their stuff.

You get more with GX? Huh?!

With GX, you get the exact same parts, except that they are lesser quality because they aren't meant to compete with XT. This is how we can tell that XT is going to be huge...when SRAM guys bring up XX in quality arguments, and GX in price arguments.

This is stupid. Your ass should be sore from riding, not from product releases.
  • + 1
 @TheRaven Are you missing the part about SRAM GX not being available on the market yet so real prices aren't available?

I'm too lazy to look but X1 is probably about the same cost as XT when comparing real world prices. And even if it's more, you get more.

You also gotta look at long term ownership costs too. Unless you crash, shifters and derailleurs don't wear out. When it's time to replace that XT cassette, you're looking at XX1 replacement costs once you factor in buying this adapter cog again whereas with GX/X1, it's just the cassette.
  • + 1
 Yeah you are talking crazy. You don't have to look anything up, I already posted. XT is ALOT cheaper than X1, it's comparable in price to GX depending on where you shop. That's already proven in posts above.

Here's my question - how do you "get more" with X1?

As for Cassette replacement, XT is $92 + $90 for the OneUp cogs. Point me to a place where I can get the X1 cassette for $182. No, seriously...do it. I'll bookmark it for my winter upgrade project. If I could get the X1 cassette for a price comparable to the M8000 cassette and OneUp cogs, i'd very seriously consider running it instead. I'd have to find a better price on the XD driver I need, but i'd definitely give it a fair look.

EDIT: the M8000 cassette just went up on Merlin's site, the price is now lower:

www.merlincycles.com/shimano-m8000-xt-11-speed-cassette-85183.html

So now buy-in is $82 + 90 = $172. Your move.
  • + 1
 @TheRaven for the 5th f*cking time, you can't compare deeply discounted overseas shit to full retail.

But even at full retail, GX is cheaper. We don't know what it'll cost when it's actually released and available at Merlin but I guarantee Merlin isn't going to charge full retail.

You get more because you don't have some hackjob ghetto ass setup that shifts like ass (as the other adapter cogs have proven to do), you get wider overall gear range, and lighter weight. Those are literally the most important things when deciding on a drivetrain. If that's not "getting more" I don't know what is.
  • + 1
 And another thing I just realized is that the GX crank is cheaper than XT, further widening the price gap, even with GX needing the XD driver.

GX stuff is actually now on Chainreaction. $402 for shifter/derailleur/cassette/crank + $50-100 for XD driver

XT is $434 for shifter/derailleur/cassette/crank + $90 for adapter cog.
  • + 1
 The GX crank is around $130 depending on configuration (ranging from $123 - $138 ), the XT 1x crank is roughly the same ($125-$136 depending). Are you looking at the 2x crank? It's in the $160 neighborhood.

WHY ARE WE STILL COMPARING GX AND XT?!

OneUp stuff shifts great when you set it up as they intended. The only problems arise when you try to get away with not using the RAD cage on the 10-speed derailleurs or leaving out the 16t intermediate cog...etc. One of my riding buddies just sold a "hacked" 1x10 bike for a new Enduro with XX1...I helped him set up that 1x10, and it shifted perfectly. I haven't ridden his Enduro, but he says his old bike shifted better. He's one of the guys I mentioned in a previous comment that is going with XTR/XT 1x10 with this OneUp setup once he can get his hands on an XT cassette. Again, it's guys that have used both, not my own experience, that have told me to go with Shimano. I can tell you this though, SRAM shifters absolutely pale in comparison to Shimano. That much I stand firm on.
  • + 1
 1.) The XT crank @ $125 doesn't have a chainring, so add $60+ to that
2.) Now you're talking about the RAD cage? Add more $ to the Shimano column
3.) Your buddy probably hasn't adjusted it since he got it to account for cable stretch. 1x11 is picky, I'll certainly give you that much.

Look man... I've had 1x10 Zee, 1x10 XT, 1x10 XTR, 1x11 XTR, and now 1x11 X01. Guess which one is my favorite? X01. Hands f*cking down. And this is coming from a Shimano fanboy. I have Shimano on my road bike, cross bike, and every mountain bike ever before this one.
  • + 1
 1) That was WITH chainring, remove $30 for the crank without it.
2) RAD cage was for 10-speed, not 11. Those complaints you cite were all for the 10-speed 42t setup.
3) It's been adjusted every ride so far. He's got seven rides on that bike now, still adjusting every ride.

I'm a fan of the cheapest way to get what I want. If that's SRAM then you'll find SRAM on my bike. It's not, thus XTR is currently on it. I tried and tried and tried to piece together a SRAM 1x11 setup that I was happy with, and just couldn't make it work. No matter which configuration I go with, 1x11 will be a range compromise for me. I'm choosing to give up top end (that I will miss) to make it happen. There is no g'damn f-ing way i'm paying MORE for something that's going to be NOT AS GOOD for me as my current 2x10 on my primary bike. Combined with SRAM's higher prices and everyone I trust telling me "go with Shimano if you can", i'd have to be an idiot to go SRAM at this point.

That said, I could end up with an X1 cassette on XTR 1x11 over the winter. I'd do it if the price is right. But when the M8000 cassette is already available for $82, making the 45t cassette a $172 reality, it's very tough to argue for an X1 cassette when I have to add on a $130 XD driver too.
  • + 1
 I don't even know what you're talking about anymore. You referenced Chain Reaction earlier, so that's where I've been getting prices. Merlin doesn't have GX yet so you can't compare Merlin (usually cheaper) for your shit and Chain Reaction for mine. At Chain Reaction, the XT crank at about $120 doesn't have a chainring. Notice the silhouette of a chainring? That means it isn't included.

Your buddy is a junk mechanic or something is broken. My X01 shifts better than the 4 different 1x Shimano systems I had before it. Faster, smoother, cripser.

With the 10T SRAM cog you can easily get the top end you had a Shimano setup. 32x10 is almost the same ratio as 36x11. On a double, I can't imagine your big ring was bigger than 38. Use a 34 up front and bam, you have about the same ratio as you had with Shimano.

And the XD driver is not $130. I've seen it as cheap as $48.
  • + 1
 I am talking about the cheapest prices to get shit. I don't care where from, you can find your SRAM stuff anywhere you like, just as I will buy my stuff from wherever I can get it cheapest. Both Chainreaction and Merlin do free shipping to the US, that's why I tend to go with them for alot. Generally neither of them have great deals on SRAM, Evans and Jenson seem to be the best places to buy SRAM. And sometimes the LBS right down the street from me is the cheapest, so they've gotten plenty of my business too.

I hear plenty about how SRAM is perfect on the internet, yet I have yet to find a single real rider (in person) in my years of riding who has tried both and said SRAM shifts better than Shimano. Just going on the short test rides i've done, and the feel of the levers on the SRAM setups i've tuned, I say no F-ing way. It's not even close. Shimano shifters feel like precision instruments while SRAM shifters feel like ball valves.

My 2x10 is 24/38 up front and 11-36 out back. I've run the math every way possible. With a 30 out front, 11-42 out back will lose me two top gears, and 10-42 will lose me one top gear. I can go to 32 up front with 11-45 out back and be within a ball hair of the range of the 30/10-42 setup. I'll sacrifice that ball hair if it saves me several hundred bucks. However if the difference is down to less than $100, I just might go with the SRAM cassette.

Please point me to where I can get an XD driver for a 2015 Fulcrum hub for $48. If you can find one for $60 or less i'll buy it now for the "just in case" scenario. Cheapest i've found anywhere is $130. It's $200 in some places.
  • + 0
 Once again, GX isn't available on Merlin so you can't compare. Merlin is almost always cheaper than Chain Reaction so you can't use Merlin for Shimano and Chain Reaction for GX. In any event, the price is close enough that it's negligible. I just see no point in getting less than you could, EVEN IF GX was slightly more expensive, which it isn't. I'm saying that IF IT WAS more expensive, it is at least justifiable because you get more. But since it ISN'T more expensive, it's an even bigger win.

I gave a $50-$100 range on the XD driver because that's what I've seen them for. Search on Amazon... they have one for $48, no idea if it'll fit Fulcrum hubs.
  • + 1
 I'm not comparing prices dealer-for-dealer, I'm comparing prices PERIOD. Like - I want to buy shit now, HOW CHEAP CAN I GET IT? I don't give a shit if I order the Cassette from CR, the Derailleur from Jenson, and the shifter from Art's. What is the cheapest I can get it? That's all I care about. I found the best prices I know of for Shimano. I did the best I could to find the best prices I could for SRAM. If you can find better legit prices, i'll include them. No limits. Hell if you want to go to ebay and find new "Buy It Now" parts, I'LL COUNT THAT!

And no, no way, not ever, is GX EVEN COMPARABLE TO XT, LET ALONE BETTER!!! NO. JUST NO. Stop trying.
  • + 1
 Ok so what are you getting at? GX is still cheaper than XT, even though it isn't available at the cheaper websites yet. Once it's at Merlin the gap will be even bigger.

Not only that, it's a full steel cassette so it'll last longer, it isn't some hackjob that'll shift like ass, has wider gear range, and replacement cassette cost is cheaper. Where exactly are you winning with XT?
  • + 1
 One more thing--GX is lighter than XT. By 5x the weight gap between XX1 and X01!!
  • + 1
 You are done. This is clearly a waste of time, you are comparing parts that were never meant to be compared and clearly are not comprehending what I am saying. We are just wasting space here.
  • + 1
 Yes, only a fool would compare ghetto ass adapter cogs to quality groupsets and deeply discounted website prices to full retail. Oh, wait, that's what you're trying to do.
  • + 1
 quiker not slower duh.
  • - 2
 What size ring is normal? I wouldn't want to go lower than 32x11.
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