Opinion: E-bikes are Breeding the Components Riders Want

Nov 22, 2018
by Mike Levy  
Mike Levy

Go and read the comment section of any website and you'll probably find that a lot of them are a bit like herpes: Usually well-mannered and, despite a nasty reputation, things don't flare up too often. Mention e-bikes on a cycling website, however, and the angst will boil out of control until it explodes. As for me, I'm no fan of electric bikes, but I also couldn't care less how you spend your time; you go do you, even if that requires a motor.

There ain't no upside to herpes, but there certainly could be an upside to electric bikes despite a lot of us acting like they're some sort of existential threat to mountain biking. Go ahead and come down off your high horse because they're not, but they are breeding the type of components that many riders want for their acoustic bikes.

No, I'm not trying to force an e-bike vaccination onto you here, but just give me a few minutes to make my case...

Riding the Rocky Mountain PowerPlay
Rocky Mountain's Altitude Powerplay 70 features e-bike-specific parts like Fox's beefed up 36 and SRAM's EX1 drivetrain bits. Those electric-centric components might make sense on many mountain bikes, too.

When you're motor-doping, you have an extra 250-ish watts at your disposal that, depending on how you feel about weights and intervals, is roughly double the power that a lot of riders can hold for an hour straight. Those extra ponies mean that the nuances of gearing selection are a bit less important than when it's solely down to your muscles, and also that some drivetrain parts probably need to be beefed up. Enter SRAM's e-bike-focused EX1 XG-899 cassette that has an 11 to 48-tooth spread (436-percent range) over just eight cogs.

If you're one of those people who have fond memories of fewer gears and more robust parts, the all-steel EX1 cassette might be the ticket.

Not only does the EX1 stack fit onto a normal, non-XD freehub body, it also sports 10-speed cog spacing that could be less finicky for some. Compared to a skinnier 12-speed chain, the EX1 version is said to be more robust and better suited to the straighter chain line that comes with using the EX1 block. Downsides?

The EX1 cassette isn't inexpensive or lightweight, and the 30-ish-percent gaps between each cog are far too strange feeling for my legs. That said, it might make a lot of sense for a rider who's more focused on sessioning jumps and drinking wobbly pops than someone who likes to cover a lot of ground during a ride and thinks about silly things like how much their bike weighs.
SRAM s eMTB specific EX1 drivetrain is currently the only choice for these machines.
The EX1 cassette has eight cogs, a wide enough range for anyone, and is compatible with Shimano freehub bodies. What it isn't, however, is light or inexpensive.

There's an EX1 shifter, too, that's really just a 10-speed changer with modified internals to make it a more straightforward single-click unit. Combine those bits with a sturdy crankset and derailleur and you could have a stout, wide-range drivetrain that requires less tinkering than the latest 20-something-speed cassette. It should also reduce the chance of your drivetrain self-destructing from you doing nothing besides looking at it wrong, which is something I often read about in the comment sections but have yet to see in person.

If longer lasting, less finicky wide-range drivetrains make sense, e-bike-specifc brakes are surely a no-brainer.

Aaron Gwin rails the final turn with the finish line drop in his sights. Gwin s search for World Championship gold goes on.
Gwin's TRP brakes were originally designed for use on e-bikes, not World Cup-winning downhill sleds.

You know who agrees with me? A guy named Aaron Gwin, who has a well-deserved rep for being a genius on the binders, and who has also been using a set of TRP's e-bike brakes on his World Cup-winning YT Tues. TRP had originally delivered a set of their G-Spec E-MTB brakes to Gwin's teammate, Neko Mulally, who went and won the US National Championship with them on his bike. Gwin got on a set shortly after that, and both guys have been using them ever since.

Yup, Aaron and Neko have been using e-bike brakes.

What's different between the E-MTB brake and TRP's normal stoppers? About 0.5mm in rotor thickness. Most standard rotors come in at 1.8mm, but TRP's E-MTB rotor measures 2.3mm thick. That extra material makes a difference in heat management, TRP says, with more steel meaning that more heat can be absorbed before it starts affecting the rest of the system at the extreme end of their intended use. They even have numbers: 8-percent lower temps and a 47-percent improvement in ''resistance to deformation under braking.''

It should also mean that the rotor is less likely to bend when it makes that inevitable contact with rocks and roots.

You can't just go and use a thicker rotor, though, as the caliper opening must also be a touch wider, which it is on TRP's G-Spec E-MTB stopper. The pistons are the same and will always self-correct to however thick the disc is, of course. If you're chunkier than the average rider, spend all day and every day in the bike park, or just need more consistent braking, this setup could be ideal. Don't be surprised to see an off-the-shelf version intended for acoustic bikes down the road.

E-bike components are usually (always?) heavier than parts intended for non-motorized use, but it's clear that a lot of riders don't give a shit about the increase in grams just as long as there's a corresponding increase in reliability. It's probably a safe bet to say that this applies to the all-too-common creaky fork crown and steerer tube assemblies more than anywhere else on our bikes. Pinkbike member @BCDragon called me out in the comment section for not taking fork manufacturers to task for this seemingly unfixable issue that most of us have had to deal with at some point, and you know what? The guy is 100-percent correct.

It's simply unacceptable that creaky CSUs are so common, be it on a $300 fork or a $1,000 fork, and while the engineering challenges of dealing with the leverage that a fork puts on its CSU has been explained to me, I don't care. This issue should have disappeared with square taper bottom brackets and cantilever brakes, but it hasn't. Instead, it's stuck around like herpes. Using an e-bike specific fork shouldn't be the answer, of course, but it could be the best solution you have right now.

E-bikes weigh more and have the potential to be ridden faster thanks to the surplus 250-ish watts, so some suspension companies offer forks with beefed up crowns, steerer tubes, and stanchions that should do a better job of brushing off your hucking. The real solution is a one-piece crown and steerer tube that would eliminate the chance of groaning between what would usually be a press-fit joint.
BMC TrailFox AMP Two - Headtube and Fox 36 forks
When is someone going to design an e-bike that doesn't look like something I drew with crayons in grade six? BMC spec'd Fox's e-bike 36 that has a solid crown and wall thickness added to the steerer and stanchions.

You know, much like what X-Fusion and Öhlins use. It's more expensive to manufacture, no doubt, and the stanchion and crown interface can still creak, but it's certainly the right way to do things. But in lieu of suspension companies doing that, an e-bike slider, with its burlier chassis, might be the solution for those who are sick and tired of their creaky $1,000 fork.

Our electric cousins might also have the answer for those who struggle to keep their wheels somewhat round and knobs on their expensive and practically disposable tires. DT Swiss, among others, offers a high-quality wheelset with thicker gauge spokes, thicker rim walls, and a steel freehub body, three things that make a lot of sense when you're hard on your hoops or if you have double the watts at your fingertips.

Ghost SL AMR Review - ...30mm DT Swiss eMTB H1700 wheelset
Ghost SL AMR Review - Ergon grips and SRAM EX1 shifter
There are a host of electric-centric components that make sense on a mountain bike, including wheels, tires, drivetrain parts, and brakes. What else can you think of?

It's a bit less obvious when we get to tires, though, as who would actually want the firmer, and therefore less grippy rubber compound that some e-bike-specific tires are made of? Oh, I don't know, maybe everyone who's sick and tired of burning up $100 or more every time they're faced with some pointy rocks. You can get longer lasting compounds on normal tires, for sure, but they're often combined with a casing that was intended for anything but pointy rocks. But e-bike rubber is designed and tested for the increased weight and speed of a motorized "mountain bike,'' which could also make them great for people who ride like they're leaving a car meet in a 5.0L Mustang. Like to skid? Me too, which is why I don't want - or need - rubber that has more in common with an eraser than a mountain bike tire.

I get it, there are (always) land access concerns and also that, somewhere deep down inside you might feel like our little two-wheeled tribe is being threatened. It's not, though; things will roll on and we'll figure it out together - if anything needs to be figured out at all - but in the meantime, it might make sense for some of us to take a closer look at our motorized cousins.

Herpes isn't going anywhere and neither are e-bikes or the angst-filled comments against them. But unlike herpes, there could be an upside to having e-bikes around.

Author Info:
mikelevy avatar

Member since Oct 18, 2005
2,032 articles

  • 242 17
 I got about halfway through reading and started fuming. Consider an ebike is about 60 pounds, and a standard issue 'enduro' bike is 30ish so that's a 30ish pound difference. Now take that 'enduro' bike and put it under a 200 pound rider and that same bike under a 170 pound rider. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?!?! Stop making 'ebike' specific parts and just make better parts period! Creaking csu's are unacceptable.
  • 44 11
 It’s just another way to sell new products. You don’t need e bike specific components to ride an e bike.
  • 14 6
 I've wondered this too, as a heavier guy when those e-bike specific brakes came out.

Any engineering nerds know if the physics behind heavier rider/lighter bike changes things vs heavier bike/lighter rider?
  • 10 6
 I agree! I’m also a heavier rider and a Pike made huge difference vs. the F32 I had previously. Wonder if e-bike fork would be better.

Surely weight on the bike is dynamically different than on the rider but something like a fork or wheels still sees that weight.
  • 43 25
 Sorry, people are stupid and weak, thus they want light parts. They will always choose a lighter 36 for 1200 than a heavier one. They also count on the fact that they will get rid of the bike and fork before it fails. One of main reasons why people don't service their suspension.
  • 16 8
 I regret i have but one up vote to give.
  • 17 6
 @nouseforaname: it's the thought that counts brother
  • 12 7
 Except you missed out the power to weight ratio difference that's likely present between the riders, a 30lb bike will feel relatively speaking a lot heavier to someone weighing 170lbs to someone weighing 200lbs and affect their power to weight ratio proportionally greater
  • 6 10
flag Clarkeh (Nov 22, 2018 at 12:52) (Below Threshold)
 It's not the difference in weight of rider, but the difference that an extra 30 pounds of weight has on the frame/parts. Imagine ghost riding a Ebike vs Non (same parts where possible) into a wall, at the same speed - I would put money on the Ebike breaking more stuff.
In the case of the forks, the crowns are stronger, less likely to bend when the bike hits something, like a tree, at pace.
Some of it is marketing, and some parts do make sense to reinforce for an Ebike.
  • 4 6
 @WAKIdesigns: I always service... But still get rid of it...
  • 5 5
 That was my thought. Who would have thought we wanted better parts right? It doesn't take e-bikes for that to happen.
  • 12 24
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 22, 2018 at 12:56) (Below Threshold)
 @bohns1: let's be pretentious here, you lift sht... you and me carry more potentially "unnecesary" muscle tissue than what the difference between 32step cast and 36 CSU is.

@LukeBurgie - it takes. General public always chooses lighter parts over heavier ones.
  • 7 6
 @Clarkeh: If 30 pounds is the threshold of strength that a part is measured on then that part needs to be redesigned. 30 pounds? Come on man
  • 5 8
These bikes will probably have higher velocities, and therefore they need better/stronger brakes
Altough, when you ride some dh laps my arguments don't worth anything
  • 9 8
 Yes and no.
1)Can you tell a difference between a 12kg bike and 16kg bike? I bet you can (and its a biiig one). If you weigh 75kg it makes only a 5% difference of the total weight.
2)with enduro ebikes you will descend and decelerate more than on standard enduro bikes given the amount of energy that you can produce troughout the whole day of riding.

The truth is, that if you buy heavier parts though, it does not mean they will have better longevity. I just don't get why are you fuming. It should be an advantage for you, that now you can get sturdier parts (although marketed as ebike, so try forget the e-marketing).
  • 19 24
flag brianpark FL Editor (Nov 22, 2018 at 13:04) (Below Threshold)
 @Tmackstab I mean, when it comes to drivetrains, there's a whole bunch more load being put on the system so it makes sense to overbuild (and under space) eMTB drivetrains.

And anyway, that's @mikelevy's whole point: eMTB "specific" or not, a lot of these parts have applications for acoustic riders as well.
  • 8 8
 @brianpark: Yeah now when it comes to drivetrains I have a different thought these days. With Eagle drivetrains we are putting huge amounts of torque into our drivetrain (freehubs especially) that we never did back in the day so I understand the need to overbuild there, ebike or not.
  • 17 25
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 22, 2018 at 13:25) (Below Threshold)
 @IluvRIDING: well except Fox 36 float started as a 2.2kg fork and by magic of a mystic technology it is 300g down... come on... Schawlbe or Spec 1ply tyres - there is barely enough rubber on the casing so that kevlar threads don't stick out through it for the first few rides. You call that as "does not mean they are any weaker"? Reba used to be a sturdier alternative to SID that has always been and will always be a spaghetti needing service within 20h of riding it. Not anymore, Reba is almost just as weak. Pike with 32 stanchions, 2250g, latest Pike full half kilo down? magic again. Carbon cranks? Carbon rims? Enduro racers going for coil shocks weighing up to 500g more. Why oh why? Coil hype? Any bike under 14 kg that is used for riding in actual mountains is not a durable and reliable bike.
  • 2 7
flag Clarkeh (Nov 22, 2018 at 13:29) (Below Threshold)
 @Tmackstab: I would think it would, its a bit less than double the weight on the part for the get go.
Like in this Santa Cruz video (From 2:30) - www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5eMMf11uhM - I think that's where your adding the extra weight, with the added weight of the bike itself behind it. I may be wrong, but that's how I see it being affected.
  • 7 8
 @Tmackstab: is that right? If I’m pedaling up the same slope, at the same crank revolutions, same bike speed (same wheel size!) then the torque at the free hub should be the same regardless of my chain-ring/cassette combination, shouldn’t it?
  • 5 5
 @WAKIdesigns: Just commenting on 32 Pike. When you up the diameter of a pipe you also up the strenght so you can use less material for the same strenght (I think RF was shouting it for 35mm bars). Then ad better materials and manufacturing processes and you can achieve lighter weight. If they are more robust I don't know.
  • 6 6
 @Altron: Yup, with the same ratio, it doesn't matter if you have granny ring and a 36t or 1x and 50t. Though the torque for a 29er is more than the 26ers we used to ride. So blame wagon wheels not Eagle...
  • 12 10
 Classic corporate MTB post.... Companys need to market things consumers want to see and are interested in. Not what they think will make them a buck or two, while loosing track of core image and how some became what they are today..
Freeride never died, its just called Enduro now...
Hoping this "marketing" loop comes to an end, I personally feel its hurting the industry itself.
  • 56 7
 @brianpark: aaaarrghhhhh, stop with the "acoustic" nomenclature, guys!
  • 13 7
 Can someone please tell me how this is more popular news then Jordie Luns new edit???
What would you rather see??
  • 7 9
 @Altron: I could be wrong but the way I see it, someone putting out X amount of power through their legs into a 30T/50T is going to generate a he'll of a lot more torque into the freehub than someone putting out the same X through a 30T/42T or whatever combo one wants to run.
  • 5 3
 Fair play. I'm left curious if the more robust parts coming out on artificially powered bikes are -in part- accounting for the increase in the riders weight over the lifetime of the part/artificially powered bike? food for thought >>>
  • 10 9
 @WAKIdesigns: My old RS totem had CSU creak every few months in 2010-2012. in 2014 I got a Pike that lasted about a year before creaking. Now I'm on the 2017 Pike (for almost 2 years) and it doesn't make noise at all. I am definitely no less of a hack and my less than 14kg bike has sent regular shuttle laps and Crabapple hits. Where is your god now? Without incremental changes nothing would ever get better.
  • 9 1
 @banffowen: it takes a lot of guts to throw a leg over an artificially powered bike these days bro ;-)
  • 2 3
 @xy9ine: WTF? Does this mean I can't feel amped when I'm riding now?
  • 2 1
 @vid1998: but the tolerances get tighter. That margin of error or space for damage gets smaller. Smaller bar needs more material, but that increased material means a gouge doesn't tear a hole in the bar. Same thing with my aluminum frame.
When it comes to forks i don't feel like this applies as much. The fact that the revelation is a 35mm fork now makes me so happy. When ,my kids move up to a 650b bike they'll actually have a decent option.
  • 12 6
 To whoever neg propped every post, I salute you lol
  • 4 1
 @sheldonuvic: both bikes will be designed to take loads from a 95th percentile man (heavy man) doing whatever the bikes intention is for, that’s why the parts are stronger. Just because there is overlap makes no difference.
  • 14 21
flag brianpark FL Editor (Nov 22, 2018 at 15:28) (Below Threshold)
 @xy9ine: naturally aspirated? calorie powered?
  • 23 2
 @xy9ine: I bet someone at Specialized or Trek came up with that idea "Hey if we just say Acoustic Vs Electric, people will accept them as two sides of the same coin!".
More apt comparison; Cricket Vs Baseball. Both games where you hit a ball with a stick and run about a bit. Show up with a cricket bat to a baseball diamond and you should expect to sit on the sidelines.
  • 1 2
 @Clarkeh: this video is awesome! Thanks for sharing
  • 22 1
 @brianpark: how about 'bicycle'?
  • 56 0
 "Acoustic" riders. Now people who ride self-propelled bikes are "acoustic". efff me some (many) neurons just committed suicide comprehending the sheer disingenuity of the marketing codswallop that dreamed that one up
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: you called me stupid and I ride a 32-36-pound bike depending on Wheels and rubber
  • 16 0
 @brianpark: Just plain mountain bike, or bike, or mtb.
  • 2 0
I’d rather see my bike falling apart less. Than almost anything.
  • 2 0
 Totally agree. They need to make better parts for bikes period. Get fitter, get stronger. I’ve got a pile, I mean a pile of broken bashed derailleurs. Finally set myself up with a Saint 10speed modified with the oneup cage and 42 low cog. Built myself some DH strength wheels and have had no problems since. I’m only in the neighborhood of 150lbs but I was breaking crap all the time. Is my bike a little heavier? Yep. Do I care??? Nope. Can I go thrash it without shit breaking all the time??? Yep.
  • 2 1
 Yeah, the wheels make absolutely no sense to me. Especially coming from DT Swiss they don’t need to make e bike specific wheels to take on the “extra” abuse. Just supply the bike with some 471’s and your set. @fattyheadshok:
  • 1 2
 The power is the factor effecting the trail condition. Special if manipulated by power hungry riders.
  • 4 7
 E bike is about 50 lbs. There is a huge and growing market for this type of bike. Might as well benefit from parts that are more robust and reliable.
  • 5 2
 @leelau: well put. This whole article is trying to squeeze something out of nothing and shoving ebikes into it for no good reason whatsoever.
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: How about proper?
  • 6 0
 I think we need to talk about how Beach Cruisers could compliment mountain biking. There's 'flow,' ...there's the hot, sunny days. There's women! Awesome. Big, oversized tires! Dude, beach cruisers lit up the plus tire scene. What about those wide handle bars? I'm buying a beach cruiser and hitting the shore. Tomorrow.
  • 5 9
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 22, 2018 at 23:04) (Below Threshold)
 @stinkbikelies: we are all stupid in different areas of our lives... I am an absolute idiot when it comes to family finance, economy in general, not to mention riding berms, sending hipped jumps, trials, skate park etc. But I know that anything under 32lbs will have knobby tubes instead of tyres, lunch box plastic for rims and tyre pump with rebound damping for the shock. Maybe even some lunch box plastic for bars, seat and cranks, not to mention drive train costing as much as a decent frame with a decent shock. If you are who you claim to be you’d demolish such bike within 3 rides in Whistler isn’t it? Perhaps blow the “tyre” off the rim on the first faster berm.

@vid1998 you can’t cut 25% of total mass by just changing tubing diameter and thickness of stanchions. They cut our plenty from the crown, decreased insert depth of the steerer, cut down meat at axle mount, changed what already was a shitty axle interface (1st gen Maxle) to a more functional yet structurally less sound solution. Fox continued with excellent lower leg design until 2015, then followed the trend catering to people too stupid and too lazy to undo clamping bolts/QRs before screwing out the axle. The first Pike was surely overbuilt but the current one is a Reba on steroids, with a proper damper. I don’t even know why Revelation exists since one can buy a 150 Reba
  • 4 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Revelation is a cheep pike. Reba is a whole different creature. But yeah it should not exist at 150mm,

Still I'm not sure why everyone is b*tching. You seem to agree with Levy that tougher simpler parts can be worth the weight penalty. I know I've been saying it for years.
  • 5 8
 @taletotell: yes I do agree with that statement but fkng weight commando is fkng it up for all of us. Weight is a factor in the tech war. it took E-bike to put weight nazis on a separate track.
  • 10 3
 @WAKIdesigns: The highest point in your country is below the elevation of my house. Please don't pretend to tell me about riding in "actual" mountains or the requirements for a bike to do it.
  • 5 4
 @brianpark @mikelevy I love this article and totally agree with it! We are going to be able to get more effective, tougher parts now for cheaper thanks to what is required to spec on ebikes so people's e-shit doesn't blow up right away. I saw the guide "RE" brakes spec'd on a commencal recently, but this is an "e-bike brake" and they are just the old code caliper mated to a crappy guide lever. Currently having guide rsc, I bought guide "RE" and mated rsc levers to the RE, and now have the power of codes for half the price of new codes. Ya maybe new codes are better, but this guide re/code caliper is way more powerful than just guides and was super cheap. Winning. I also love the look of that ex1 stuff for my DH rig! I pretty much stay in 1 gear on my jump trails, but do need to climb to get to some local dh. Maxxis double down and the new specialized black diamond casing especially are sick, but maybe we will keep getting some good tires out of ebikes too, like that new Schwalbe e-tire casing? However the average e-bike consumer may not be putting much stress on the spec on their e-bike, really only industry folk (expert riders) who ride ebikes will, but if they force beefier spec, we will be able to buy the components aftermarket!
  • 1 0
 Better idea: You as a consumer be realistic about the capabilities of the part you're buying. You want it light and durable. PICK ONE, Homer.
  • 3 15
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 23, 2018 at 9:24) (Below Threshold)
 @LeDuke: you are an idiot. First off: Anyone with a slight clue about cornering can take off a 1ply schwalbe at trail riding pressure of a rim at a pumptrack in the middle of Netherlands. Two: people travel.

  • 4 0
 @LeDuke: also ask a roadie about whether they do more climbing in the eastern US where there are thousands of hills, or the rockies in the western US. Surprise, It's the east because the continual smaller hills making you climb and descend frequently. Funny thing is, it is the same on a mountain bike, I have found. Altitude does not determine either the total amount of climbing or anything else except how much your lungs expand to get sufficient o2.
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: the SID and reba have used the same CSU and lowers for years, they havent somehow become noodles because of some mysterious change. They have actually become a lot stiffer over the years.The full service interval on new charger damper SIDs is 200 hours..put down the crack pipe.
  • 1 0
 @bike2850: You're not a mechanical engineer are you?
  • 1 4
 @clink83: I know that Reba and SID share the CSU these days. It was the Reba that got noodled around 2012 Previously Reba had bigger bushing overlap and longer uppers. It possibly shared them with Rev. I owned pretty much every reba chassis save latest black ones with RCT3.

@taletotell - I meant descending, we don't have many turns over here that can test the tyre stability. I mean you can tear the crap out of any tyre when you session corners but you won't necessarily do it on a regular ride, whereas in big mountain it is nothing weird to start slashing tyres. We need to travel to get such places, Hafjell being closest. When it comes to climbing around here... good luck with assumptions... a 2,5h of Swedish "stig" ridden at good pace will fist any fireroad warrior up to the throat. Simply because hills are steep and techy.
  • 1 1
 @brianpark: although I see what you are trying to say, I think mark cavendish or one of those indoor sprinters can put more torque on a chain/pedal than an eBike. And they have even less material on the road bikes. So I am not sure that it is the weight of the bike that dictates these new components.
  • 1 0
 @metaam: charge up dat.
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: yeah waki. You got no verts. come try the lions head loop with your rig of a bike. I'll show you around. Plus you've got to be kidding.....
  • 2 0
 @taletotell: I guess there is something to your small hilly east coasty roady opinion, $ 400 e cassettes too.
I just feel like it's relative to, how should I put this; you know- reality.
  • 2 10
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 23, 2018 at 14:14) (Below Threshold)
 @jha: no I am not kidding. Unlike you I don't judge your stuff over internet. Considering what I rode in Alps around Garda I'd rather do 5k vertical in Alps than 2k in Gothenburg. Then each fireroad and singletrack is different with different surface and lean so I don't know what the hell are we talking about... So please piss off. No good rider uses knobby tubes aka 1ply tyres on 140+ bike in mountains. Joeys do.
  • 2 10
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 23, 2018 at 14:36) (Below Threshold)
 And xc marathon races are full of Joeys who crank out vertical miles on weekly basis. Fkng vertical dick measuring contest over the internet. I can take you to a 600ft ski piste in my home town, and we’ll do it three times straight up, except you probably won’t do the second. Except I’ll probably do your route when I come to your place mr steady pace. We’ll see how your marathon body deals with max pulse for 3min straight, time and time again. Pfff... vertical... at what grade bro? What surface? What air temperature? What altitude? My favorite PB climbers are from Colorado. Will go on about 28t chainrings and 50t rear. Well, I’d rather sell the bike and get into BMX racing in Netherlands than do a good face to snail pace
  • 1 0
 @ClarkHoward: I am glad to buy more robust parts as I ride like a teenager hopped up on adrenaline. For years the industry has been pedaling wares designed for racing weight-weenies.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I thought you were educated. Why would you even mess with schwabe tires? Get you some quality team issue bontrager's and never look back.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: I don't know who came up with "Acoustic" as a term for a non e-bike, but man that just does seem to fit. Perhaps we should just call a non e-bike just a bike.
  • 1 0
 @taletotell: that would explain all the those sick edits out of places like Florida.
  • 1 0
 @matttauszik: What about all the sick edits out of places like the UK. Highest point just over 1300m.
  • 1 3
 @stinkbikelies: I have Bontrager G5s for bike park, minions DHF DD for “Enduro” in mountains and 1ply front Rock Razor SG for local trails. Bontragers SE are my favorite intermediate tyres and XR2s are my favorite XC tyres evers. Schwalbe SG is legit but accompanying compounds wear out quickly. Considering I don’t ride, a serious rider would wear Schwalbe soft compounds in less than a month for regular riding and over a weekend for racing. They are like good old Maxxis 40a Slow Reezay
  • 1 0
 @taletotell: I agree with some of the last part of that. Altitude does not equal Total climb but the first part I don’t believe people are climbing more on the east coast we have continual smaller hills with big hills and mountains it’s not like we have mountains and everything else is flat unless your in a valley your on an incline in one direction or another.
  • 1 0
 @mitochris: I think people like that don’t have to put down as much torque to go that speed they know the limits of their equipment and how to utilize the bike to the max without destroying it. For your average joe maybe more durable parts isn’t a bad thing.
  • 1 0
 @loganflores: Where I lived is all hills and valleys, but experiences may vary.
  • 3 1
 Around my place you need to ride 50miles on road bike to get 3000 vertical feet, and you have to be good at planning the route to have lots of hills on it. That’s 3,5 - 4h ride for me. If I lived in Alps in that time I would do at least double in vertical. Still altitude means nothing. If one mountain has several routes to get to the top, the energy expenditure may vary dramatically. Time of the year (temperature) will also have a huge impact on performance. Honestly, so many people talking crap about climbing bikes here seem to have no clue about climbing bikes other than spinning pedals
  • 1 1
 @loganflores: No elite holds back to save the material. The track sprinter Chris Hoy puts down 2500+W during the end of his sprint. No chance that he would risk flimsy material. The stuff has to hold.
  • 1 1
 @mitochris: hah Chris Hoy won’t deal with flimsy matetial. Chris Froome will. If his bike will fail he has 20 more on the car behind him. Actually he may be changing bikes during one stage if for instance they ride 100km on flat and then get into mountains. XCers do all sort of dumbest shennenigans to save weight. Gunn Rita Dahles broken handlebar - wtf was that?! That is the difference between an actual no fks given, bold athlete and a whiny bitch with hundred people to powder their bum
  • 1 1
 @Clarkeh: can we ghost ride all the ebikes into a wall?
  • 1 0
 @mitochris: I didn’t mean they were holding back I meant that they can obtain the same speed with less torque than us mere mortals. And I hate to agree with waki but I don’t think pros care much if they break there bikes they are free why wouldn’t you undercut weight. I would love to hear a break down (pun intended) on how many frames a pro rider goes through in a year.
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: those pro XC bikes are quite reliable. I'm 6'4 and 200-215 and ride a XL 21lb hardtail and a 24lb FS and don't break parts ever. A lot of pro road riders run alloy bars and stems on their "weight weenie" bikes so they can ride away from crashes. If you are breaking stuff all the time many you need to improve your line choices or maintain your stuff better...
  • 1 3
 Bla bla online dick comparing with assumptions bullshit, how surprising that you think Nino could beat Sam Hill on a descend on Enduro bikes @clink83

What do you think I meant with stupid light parts? I tell you what I meant because you missed. I meant dumb German components like bars under 100g, 100mm stems at 80g, alloy seatposts at 140g, cranksets like clavicula, carbon hubs with ceramic bearings, tyres like thunderburt, rims like ztr olympic. Mr Gustav aka Dangerholm who built his Scotts at stupid weights still kept basic levels of sanity, even though his bike was 7kg. He said himself he could probably cut 300g more if he used real stupid parts available for purchase. Gunn Rita Dahle broke a carbon bar during the race, was it the fault of carbon? Only if she crashed with it before and didn’t care about visible damage. But more likely, she used one of stupid light bars. Or a bar from Ali Express. Alloy bars don’t mean more reliable than carbon. What are you on about? There are enough dweebs making light alu bars with no tests to support their products. 9kg hardtail is fkng light by all standards, anything below is playing with fire, always. If you need a lighter bike you better show me your number plate with UCI XCO world cup written on it. And finally there is no more proof needed to say that XC WC Has some lunatics around, other than those aluminium magic bricks. Inever said other discplines don’t have lunatics. Look at Fabien Barel for crying out loud.

I don’t keep destroying my parts. If you want a piece of me get a higher level first. It may motivate you to get educated in the process
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: dude I've been riding around on an 80g stem for a while and my teeth are still intact. You can get 760mm bars from mt zoom that are 120g and reliable too for $120-130. None of these lightweight parts are particularly exotic or rare, and aren't certainly unreliable.
You think wc level racer is using Ali express bars? Dude You're on meth if you think that. Perhaps you should go ride your bike instead of spewing nonsense on pinkbike, it might do you some good. A bike under 14k in unreliable? Ha
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: not me, still on my monster t
  • 83 1
 So a heavy all-steel cassette with no aluminum carrier or fancy construction is now an expensive item? Sounds just like the low end cassettes shimano and sram have been selling for $60 over the last decade. Oh but its new and E bike specific so up the price goes....?
  • 26 1
 Exactly my toughts, EX1 is pointless because its price. It costs 350 EUR, for an 8-speed casette, a BIG WTF. And most probably mainly because it is labeled e-bike specific, and since e-bike are generally expensive, customer will pay premium also for drivetrain.
  • 13 3
 It's made from tooling steel so should be very hard and therefore hardwearing. This is the material that would normally be used to cut the teeth of normal cassettes-therefore this is more difficult and expensive to manufacture.
  • 12 21
flag brianpark FL Editor (Nov 22, 2018 at 13:14) (Below Threshold)
 @lkubica: first movers are always at a premium price. You don't think there will be more durable, wide range 8-speed cassette options in the future because of the eMTB trend?
  • 8 10
 @brianpark: First movers are Always expensive? Yeah tell that Henry Ford lol
  • 5 2
 No it has to do with what people want. Not about stupid e bikes @brianpark:
  • 7 1
 Forget EX1 @mikelevy, the new NX Eagle cassette is all steel and the only Eagle cassette rated for e-bikes. It is relatively cheap (and kind of heavy).
  • 16 5
 @NotNamed in the early 1900s the Ford Model A cost about $20,000 when adjusted for inflation, while a horse cost about $2000.
  • 3 0
 @NotNamed: The Model T cost the equivalent of 2-4x the avg worker wage at the time. Not sure I see your point.

And people think Ford was first... it was the first production oriented assembly line plant for autos (not even the first assembly line production).

Benz is generally thought to have invented the automobile, other companies were selling much more expensive cars... Ford was cheaper, but far from cheap.
  • 4 1
 @brianpark: Good point. Very much in line. Even the horse. Your standard starter horse, some training, has potential, these days is $2000. But if you want an enduro horse with all the bells and whistles, ie., trained, months under saddle, etc, looking at $5000 up to, "Did you really spend that much on horse?" pricing. Sounds familiar...
  • 4 1
 I believe the EX1 cassette is a single-peice x-dome cassette machined from a solid block of steel just like X01, so it does use "fancy construction". It's just optimized for durability over weight. While X01 cassette is amazingly light, teeth start breaking off after a season or two of riding.
  • 1 0
 I think the EX1 also has uses an asymmetric chain with shift ramps for both up and down, similar to the elusive new 12sp XTR, a feature which is not present in Eagle XX1 or any other Sram cassette.
  • 2 1
 To be fair though the construction on those $60 dollar cassettes suck though, they creak like crazy under any sort of power and when it comes to the beefier e bike cassettes they actually work pretty well and don't make any creaking noises.
  • 4 4
 EX1 is a really well thought out product. I'm tired of E-bikes with SLX or XT cassettes coming into the shop with a grenaded 11 or 13 tooth cog after three weeks of use because some pudgy lad who's never ridden bikes before went and pressed the the shift lever while sending 250+ watts through the chain.

Between the hard, high quality steel in the cassette and the thiccer 8 speed chain (which really does seem to be just a slightly reshaped 8 speed chain, thing retails for $25 US), the package should hopefully last some time under even the dumbest and least co-ordinated of riders.
  • 1 1
 @lkubica: the companies usually blame the extra cost of the e-bike labeled products on the moar astringent certification they have to pass. So now you have two -at least- different SKUs to certificate, one for regular bikes and another for mopeds.
  • 1 1
 @brianpark: I think there will be premium products like EX1 and heavy as f*k products for "cheap" e-bikes. Nothing moderately priced with decent weight i.e. aluminium large cog. Because e-bike market is different, e-bike are heavy by design, so there is really no point in light e-bike specific casette except for a premium market (ie.I am a "dentist", so I will by a bike priced like a medium-class car, because, well, capitalism).
  • 4 0
 @bikingduker: sorry still crap. Why? NN not more reliable because it still have 12 small cogs. I smacked in one year 5 eagle derailleurs to hard to work properly. I hit on the same time only one 11 speed SRAM derailleur that it stopped working . 10speed Shimano 2 years without replacing . Do you see the point of less cogs now?
  • 5 2
 the ex1 cassette is stupid, period.

It's $400.

my regular 11-36 cassette is $30. When I wear them out I buy a new one.

They shift great.
  • 1 2
 @brianpark: I See where youre coming from but a horse cant be compared to a car.
But bike components can be compared as they are all very similar.

Ford made less expensive cars than their competition- he was a first mover thanks to use taylorism... He wanted to make inexpensive cars... I dont see alot of bike companys trying to make inexpensive parts.

Im staying by my word that mtbing is becoming the new golf for many people
  • 1 1
 @robwhynot: I did not say that Ford was the first car maker. He was the first to split production thus the ability to make cheaper cars.

First movers are just people / companys who have an idea and make use of it...nowhere it is mandatory for them to be expensive... A lot of companys are first movers trough cost leadership.
  • 1 0
  • 1 1
 Ya maybe it is expensive, but ebikes with motors in the bb thrash drivetrains if you don't shift carefully. Extra power comes from the cranks, and throws the chain between gears at a violent speed and timing so a tougher cassette does make sense, might need tougher chain too! (Hence 8 speed=thicker). Makes me think ebikes are really a candidate for gearboxes. Definitely wish ex1 was cheaper, with you on that. But to agree with @brianpark, we are in the infancy of this whole concept with ebikes and their spec. Components really could look more like what we want in a few years.
  • 1 0
 @NotNamed: Economies of Scale are not immediately recognized from the start of production, especially for eMTBs who number in 10's of 1000's, not 100's of 1000's or millions.
  • 2 2

"the ex1 cassette is stupid, period."

As @supermike306 said the EX1 "cassette is made from tooling steel so should be very hard and therefore hardwearing. This is the material that would normally be used to cut the teeth of normal cassettes-therefore this is more difficult and expensive to manufacture".

But, hey, don't let fact based logic stop you.
  • 3 0
 @CaptainSnappy: The fact that something is dificult and expensive to manufacture does not mean that it makes sense. I bet you can make even mre expensive casette from some aorospace-grade material, and so what? Maybe it makes sense for an e-bike, but for normal bikes? For this sh*t I can buy like 7 11-46 casettes! I mean, robust components make sens, but in 7 years i might not be able to use this casette on a new bike anyway.
  • 1 0
 Deleted comment
  • 3 0
 @NotNamed: You miss the point there-Henry Ford wasn't giving people NEW technology for a cheap price, he is famous for starting to show the benefits of economy of scale, by giving people EXISTING technology cheaper than before through new methods of manufacture. Totally the opposite of what we are talking about here which is new technology. Fordism is not about innovation of the product but maximizing economy of scale.
  • 2 0
 @Serpentras: Actually I kind of agree, I haven't seen the need to "upgrade" to 12 speed and have heard the eagle stuff can be a headache.. I'm running an XT drivetrain with a GX 11 speed all steel cassette and have yet to wear it out or wreck a derailleur in 2 solid seasons of riding.
  • 1 0
 At 360g EX1 isn't heavy. Like its X01 12-speed counterpart, it's beautifully made and should be for $350+ USD. But according to this credible review: www.bikeradar.com/us/mtb/gear/category/components/groupsets/groupset-mountain/product/sram-ex1-review-51529 user got 2500km/1550 miles out of it and three chains. At an average of 10mph, that's 155 hours. Granted this was on an e-bike, but I'm certain I've got at least that on a GX 12-speed cassette which is only on its second chain. It's dry here, unlike tester's environs, but I'm not convinced on durability. May revert to HG-500 11-42t or Praxis when GX expires.
  • 1 0

What logic? It costs more to make so they charge more, yes I get that. No part of that makes it a good idea.
  • 3 1
 @freeridejerk888: plus 1 for saying stupid e bikes
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: of course there won't be new 8 speed cassettes coming out. Are you kidding? There will be less durable 13 speed cassettes with proprietary spacing and probably a 14 speed one after with new spacing again.
  • 2 0
 @robwhynot: Wouldn’t that make the point even more wouldn’t Benz have had to pay a high premium to get started. His customers would have had to pay a pretty penny to get a car as well. First adopters always pay the way for cheaper products over time.
  • 1 0
 @loganflores: Yeah, but I don't think that is what NotNamed meant when he used Ford to make a point. His post seemed to imply Ford was a first mover where price wasn't high.
  • 1 0
 @robwhynot: I see what you mean notNamed also seems to think you can make a product cheap right off the bat and that would only be possible if you had the cash or a free factory labor and materials to start with. If all you needed was a good idea than a bunch of cokeheads would have a shopping network for all the products they think up at 3 am waiting for jimmy to bring the stuff.
  • 86 15
 I'm tired of people in this industry trying to promote e-bikes. Let the marketplace decide for itself - it's called 'free will' and the 'free market' - and so far, I've seen two e-bikes in my lifetime on the trails. Some Youtuber's (the ones connected to major sponsors) have tried pushing e-bikes and it's just totally annoying. Stop being such sell-outs to get hits on your site (I'd rather pay you Patreon $ to keep you legit). Most of us don't care, period. Leave it alone. If in time, people decide to start purchasing them, great. E-bikes are neurotic in terms of their marketing pitch - "achieve more," "ride more trails for the limited time you have in the day." That's what cell phones ("smart") phones were supposed to achieve, as was the fax machine - get us more time! People shredding more trails is not the point. Finally, e-bikes are just another battery that requires copper, cobalt, nickel, lithium and other products. Seen an open pit mine lately? Also, most of the cobalt is coming from Africa - go study their mining situation and environmental. I'm not being pretty or a hypocrite, I understand that all bikes have their environmental cost. I just think the industry's push is flawed on many levels and desperate.
  • 30 6
 Man I hate the marketing too. Specialized tag line “It’s you just faster”? Yeah I took physics. No that’s not how energy output works.
  • 31 12
 Yeah - the only “Herpes” around here is people Mike Levy obviously getting money to sponsor some veiled attempt to promote E-Bikes #SelloutHerpes
  • 13 27
flag brianpark FL Editor (Nov 22, 2018 at 13:15) (Below Threshold)
 @SirWonky: I can't tell if you're joking here...
  • 19 0
 E-bikes are the current niche market propelled to the mainstream by the marketing machine. It was like that for fatbikes and plus-wheeled bikes before. When sales start to slow down, something will take it's place.
  • 7 0
 That tabasco sauce in the eye meme that is running around the web is spot on. I've never seen a group of people/business/trend that is in such desperate need of acceptance by an entire different sport. Well maybe in our teen years the attention seeking second hand shame clowns in high school. Djesus.
  • 6 1
 I see emtb's constantly these days. Usually older folks who are lost, but they are in abundance nonetheless.
  • 8 2
 Preach it brother.

The adversting is neuronic! Totally agreed.

"You'll still be you if you ride an ebike"

"Ride farther not harder"
  • 9 10
 @SirWonky: he’s not promoting e bikes. He’s promoting the stronger parts.
  • 4 2
 @nozes: I hadn't ever looked at it that way, but you are absolutely right! Man, does anybody remember the crazy 'buzz' around fatbikes when they came out? And now? You hardly see them unless on snow or sand..
  • 6 15
flag slayerdegnar (Nov 22, 2018 at 21:30) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah, Wade Simmons, Matt Hunter, Kenny Smith , Coastal Crew, Aggy , they are all in on this secret sabotage ruin mtn biking forever... True legends of the sport don't see the issue with having fun on a e bike, maybe you tough guys could learn a lesson. Live and let live.
  • 15 0
 @slayerdegnar: Maybe you should enter the boardroom, when they all sit down and the executives are like: "Okay guys, ...you, you, and you are headed on a trip to 'exotic cool place somewhere' to ride e-bikes and promote the brand." You really think Endorsed athlete 1 or Endorsed athlete 2 are gonna say no? It ain't their job to say no. They get paid, fund their mortgages and their lives, by being paid endorsers to the sport vis a vis the brands they work for. In short, they are employees of the company. Company barks, they bite - full stop. If a star mountain biker was told to go to Paris and sip lattes while wearing a new fanny pack, BELIEVE ME, he's got the fanny pack on....he's in Paris (looking like a noob), and he's getting photos taken. Or, they could refuse to ride the e-bike or wear the fanny pack and see what happens? Again, FREE WILL, FREE MARKET should determine all this - we don't need angled marketing campaigns trying to pitch inventory. Leaving the actual 'e-bike' aside, it's the message itself that is so annoying: "you can achieve more, ride more, GET more trails ...have it all, if only you had more time." The cell phone and fax machine promised this and life is more neurotic and crazy than ever before! Get your strava, hammer multiple trails, post on instagram, take a selfie, be home in time for the 9pm Dr. Phil show. What next after the e-bike? I'll tell you: the next neurosis will be battery life. There will be the 'super delux' of battery time. This battery will get you an extra 20%! Ah, Lithium super boost plus battery - guarantees you can strava till midnight. Then, there will be requirements to hold additional battery packs, the same way we demanded water bottles to mount on our frame. How much power do we need? How many miles must we ride, before being satisfied? Can we conquer it all, or shall we gracefully bow to the mountain and say, you win this time...and thank you for the blessing of those trails today? Look, if somebody has a blown out ACL and they wanna ride, or maybe they have a physical condition that let's them ride only so much...fair enough. Or, maybe the person is just lazy...I respect that. I respect a lazy person because they are honest. What counts is Free Will! Yes, some marketing is needed for any product, but eventually you gotta let the market decide. I think the 'people' are saying, the marketing is getting contrived and insulting. Personally, I think one way they should be marketing e-bikes is for people who shuttle! An e-bike is your Tacoma and bike in one. There, that's honest marketing. You plan on getting a ride up anyways - ebike is much cheaper than buying a pick-up truck as well! Commencal has taken this pitch, and I think it was a good idea.
  • 2 1
 @nozes: if you look at shops and general sales in germany, ebikes are in no way a niche. In my hometown all big shops have 50% e bikes now.
  • 4 0
 @optimumnotmaximum: That's interesting. We will all be Facebook 'doubters' one day. Remember at $15 a share, people said FB was going broke? We'll see what happens. What I find so interesting, is watching youtube videos of mountain bikers who all session really hard climb obstacles. It's like an important challenge to see if they can climb something tricky on a decked out trail in Moab. Literally, a guy tried 5 times to clear something, and then finally did and was stoked. On an e-bike, he'd just blast up everything. People like the challenge I believe, and yes...leave it to free will and the market and see if people bite on this stuff.
  • 2 0
 @gnarnaimo: LOL!!! "older folks who are lost," classic!
  • 1 0
 @bschleenbaker: Marketing 101: appeal to the customers emotions.
  • 4 0
 @optimumnotmaximum: You are making a sweeping statement based on one place.

At my local shop the one and only e-bike has been sitting there for over a year. Can I then say that ebikes don't even rise to the level of niche product?
  • 2 4
 @secretninjaguy: This is North America vs Europe thing. In Europe e-bikes are ubiquitous, much more than e.g. Fatbikes have ever been. This is something to stay. Think about it - ride uphill without being tired, don't know many people who would resist that ... Where e-bikes suck is going down technical trails, especially when you need to bunnyhop, pop from small lips etc. but you know what? Most people do not ride those trails. So you have something easy appealing to inexperienced riders vs something which has advantage for experienced riders wich are in minority. Guess which option wins? The easy option for majority always wins because majority has more money, simple as that.
  • 3 2
 @lkubica so you're telling me, contrary to all the stereotypical things that are said.... Europeans are more lazy then Americans?

Now that's a funny turn of events......
  • 4 0
 @tigerteeuwen: not riding harder is literally the exact opposite of what I look to do on a bike.
  • 2 2
 @secretninjaguy: you can't throw a rock w.out hitting an ebike shop in salt lake
  • 3 1
 @matttauszik: but those are used for ministry work....
  • 3 1
 @SirWonky: Dammit, you got me! My crappy Mini is powered by a Bosch motor, of course. So is all of my hate for these types of comments. Just joking Smile
  • 2 0
 Tesla would like you too stop talking about rare earth metals and mines in Africa everyone knows cobalt and lithium come from the gumdrop rainforest down candy cane lane. And those aren’t children mining it there just short elf’s.
  • 2 0
 My pops once told me as a kid (as I was starting my own neighborhood lawn mowing business at 12 years old) that the 3 most important things in business are:

#1 - Marketing
#2 - Marketing
#3 - Marketing

This was told to him by a very successful owner of a multi-million dollar medical device company.
  • 2 2
 @ryanm189: From this I understand that you are against the basic premise of marketing, and brands creating content that you (as someone on Pinkbike) consumes. Who cares what they are riding if the riding is good? And who cares what other people might enjoy. Before clicking this article, you were warned it was about e-bikes. If you are just going to spew hate, GTFO
  • 3 0
 @cycleco: I am not spewing hate, please don't project. I am "spewing" common sense. Marketing is all good. Riding is all good (people can ride how, and when they wish). In a 'free country,' and as a free citizen, I simply commented on the obvious - that ebike marketing is desperate, contrived and insulting to the intelligence of mountain bikers. I'm all for prosperity, jobs, (bikes of all kinds), but I have a right to comment on stupidity. Yes, before clicking on the article I was "warned," as you say. I still have a right (and an interest) to read it. When I see a rated R movie, I've been "warned." I can still watch that movie, and if it's great I can give a good review. If the movie is garbage, I can also give a bad review. Democracy good. Fascism bad. See you on the trails!!
  • 72 25
 I love how pinkbike sees a huge market they are missing out on and write up not so subtle articles like this one.Perhaps hoping to convince their readers thay Ebikes arent that bad afterall so they can start pumping money out from ebikes manufacturers.

STOP IT.Ebikes are great and awesome for what they are but they’re arent mountain bikes.Just like I have zero interest in road bikes , this crap will be the end of me browsing your site if I see one more ebike related article.You’re not being clever at all, In fact, its an insult to your readers intelligence.

With that being said, ebikes are indeed awesome for some people and Im glad it allows more people to ride and support the industry buying new gear and stuff.I just hope THEY ,not us mountain bikers but EBIKERS work things out with landowners ASAP before some dumbass ebikers f*cks shit up and ends up sue someone they shouldn’t be suing or getting sued.So far they have seem to be relying on local people and mtn biking associations to figure that stuff out... Not cool.

Lastly, like its already been said, manufacturers just need to start making better parts across the board and stop coming up with lame marketing excuse...

  • 15 1
 Pinkbike knows our addiction is stronger than our hatred of ebikes.
  • 27 45
flag brianpark FL Editor (Nov 22, 2018 at 13:10) (Below Threshold)
 @tuumbaq Sorry this is stressing you out so much, but the whole point here is that eMTB parts have applications BEYOND eMTB. That's hardly pro-eMTB.
  • 42 11
 @brianpark:You are twisting and spinning my words.I NEVER said i was stressed out about Ebikes, in fact I clearly stated I was all excited for Ebikes and how they allow a new breed of riders to support part of the bicycle industry.

This article is clearly a pathetic attempt to bring Ebikes into the conversation ... Please show me all the numerous articles on how BMX parts, road bikes, hec even motorcycle and automotive parts have applications beyond their respective industries?... I know they are out there but we see maybe ONE of those every 2-3 years and its generally a brief mention of the product origins ..NOT an entire article. This one is an whole essay about Ebike parts?Lets just see how many lame attempt to tap into the EBike market Pinkbike has made over the last year...I counted 5 in the last year alone.

Im sorry you are unable to see what this article is all about, TALKING ABOUT EBIKES IN HOPES TO GENERATE NEW INCOMES...Again, all stoked for those who likes Ebikes, start you own associations, ask Pinkbike to launch a PinkEbike page so I dont have to see these irrelevant insults to my intelligence.

What is so hard for Pinkbike to understand? Is their office only populated with morons? Others have done it ,like GMBN for instance, they have a EMBN channel, why cant Pinkbike do something as simple as launching a new website?
  • 12 2
 @brianpark: how about companies just make stuff we need, instead of telling us want we want. You don't need ebikes for that. That's just a gigantic cop out
  • 9 1
 @tuumbaq: it's the lack of arguments and the constant need for validation, if you have an opinion that is different from the e-crowd, you're a hater or just stressed out, the e-trend killed their notion that others are entitled to have different opinions than theirs, they just can't accept that simple fact of life in society.
But even GMBN, they just can't stick to their channels, they have to shove it up once in a while, more or less like this article. lol, it's kinda hilarious all the effort.
  • 8 0
 I would love a wide range 8 speed cassette for my regular mtb. I almost always double shift on my 11sp 10-46 setup. Would love to try EX1 on my mtb.
  • 13 33
flag brianpark FL Editor (Nov 22, 2018 at 15:34) (Below Threshold)
 @tuumbaq I mean, I approved the article and I promise you it wasn't done out of a desire to "generate new incomes."

I am in favour of thinking critically of the industry—and think some great points have been brought up here in regards to innovation slowing down because of eMTB. I just don't like the suggestion that we're eMTB shills. We're not. Maybe the global eMTB cabal is sending my cheques to the wrong address...
  • 23 9
 @brianpark: yeah right , sorry not buying it for one minute...Funny how my orginal post I made HOURS ago consistently made it up to 30 props and lost over 15+ in the last.10- 15 min.Incidentally , your first comment had 5 neg props seconds after you posted and now its trending up ? Lol , That is SUCH a weird coincidence!

I never suggested you were a Ebike Shill,again, twisting my words, Pinkbike is all about the dollar figures regardless of what its core readers wants...Just read the other comments for f*cks sakes, Im not the only one who pointed the obvious
  • 6 18
flag deadmeat25 (Nov 22, 2018 at 15:51) (Below Threshold)
 Perfect example of a thick, tin foil hat wearing pseudo human cunt...
  • 1 8
flag deadmeat25 (Nov 22, 2018 at 15:55) (Below Threshold)
  • 7 18
flag d-man FL (Nov 22, 2018 at 16:34) (Below Threshold)
 @tuumbaq: did someone force you to read the article? No, You clicked on it and then go on a rant about a conspiracy. I'm sure pinkbike won't miss ya.
  • 21 1
 @brianpark: god you are so fake, hardly pro-eMTB, read again please. Suddenly because of eMopeds we are gonna have reliable parts, come on please...
  • 14 3
 @tuumbaq: they are obviously manipulating the props, it's hurting their little egos
  • 10 0
 @d-man: I think I made my point real clear, whats yours ?
  • 3 12
flag slayerdegnar (Nov 22, 2018 at 21:23) (Below Threshold)
 PB is largely neutral on e bikes and occasionally releases ads to that bike manufacturers promote. You guys act like e bikes are some evil caravan of terrorists and rapers that will destroy the sport when there is no proof.. Whining about a form of mtn biking will not stop the flux of e bikes.
  • 5 3
 @slayerdegnar: again never whinned about Ebikes...but Im glad you said whatever you needed to say and got it off your chest.
  • 14 0
 @brianpark: I think it’s ok to sell-out so you can raise some money for mikes herpes treatment. Just be up front about it.
  • 9 2
 @tuumbaq: Dude I agree with everything you said here. Pinkbike is getting whack as f*ck - thinking they are slicker than slick with their “mtb posts” that are obviously $$$ sponsored agendas and ads. And then they manipulate the +/- prop counts to make it look like readers themselves are often agreeing with the article. #PhonyBike.com
  • 6 0
 @d-man: It was his free will to read the article. It's also his free will to compliment or criticize it. He can't be faulted for reading it. This is an industry and sport he obviously cares about - so he tuned into a topic that he was passionate about. He can speak, it's all good.
  • 9 6
 I too have very little interest in road bikes. But before we got things like decent short cage mechs, close ratio cassettes, etc we all used those intended for road bikes. Then the manufacturers realised there was demand for such items and we got proper DH kit.
Furthermore nobodies head exploded, no blood from the eyeballs because we were using roadie stuff. Everyone needs to calm down and put the tin foil hats away.
“We want stronger parts, our bikes always break and things are made too light for our gnar” - everyone
“Hey have you seen this e-bike stuff, it’s just what you’re after” - Mike Levy
  • 5 4
 @tuumbaq: every time they mention electronic shifting, it's mentioned as a trickle down from road bikes, and moto is mentioned constantly anytime an upside down fork, gearbox or Sam Hill's hand guards are mentioned. This is no different and totally appropriate as I have wondered about all this. I thought my next brakeset might be an ebike one.
  • 6 7

Expecting others, outside your immediate family, to alter their behaviour to meet your specific needs, will never happen. Don't waste your time expecting that Pinkbike will. As a website, Pinkbike answers to number of clicks, not whingey complaints.

Here's a solution that Pinkbike does in fact respond to: don't click on the ebike articles FFS! Benefits? Two! First, we don't have to read your whining about being 'forced to read' about ebikes, and second, you aren't adding to the number of clicks on ebike articles. Win, win for all of us.
  • 4 6
 @tuumbaq: that you're a whiner
  • 3 2
 @d-man: thats your point ! Lol, well you’re a dumbass
  • 38 3
 Oh please, the world didn't need ebikes for thicker rotors. It also developed 10sp spacing a long time ago.

If you're digging that deep into the justification bin doesn't that tell you something?
  • 6 0
  • 36 4
 You could also argue that all The investment in ebikes is stopping investment and development in normal bikes. Every buck spent on developing ebike specific forks etc by fox etc could have been invested in making their current or future non emtb products better or more reliable. There are definately a lot of brands getting distracted by the new fast buck in ebikes, to the detriment of their core products,
  • 12 1
 It's the 'Excel spreadsheet' that tempts them every time. Oh! Another market segment to sell to. I get it to some degree: Sales = money = corporate prosperity = jobs (and many other good things). The problem is that the e-bike pitch is so desperate and so tacky. My message to industry is leave it to the market to decide. We don't need articles trying to convince us there are 'other angles' that will benefit us, if we just give e-bikes the chance.
  • 9 24
flag brianpark FL Editor (Nov 22, 2018 at 13:12) (Below Threshold)
 This is a great point. It happened with plus bikes, and it's certainly happened with eMTBs.

That said, I think it's nice that some previously ignored market segments (eg. those who want durable wide range 8-spd) are able to reap some benefits of eMTB product development.
  • 9 0
Exactly what I've been saying since I saw the first e-mtb being promoted here.
We all could be riding better and cheaper bikes if the money spent on e-mtb R&D was spent and saved the right way.
  • 5 0
 @brianpark:a lot of people seem to take the bike cabal conspiracy planned obsolescence thing a little too far. Yes bike companies need to make $ but they're ultimately the ones who make it all possible. I for one am totally satisfied with how my expensive as fk bike and components work. That being said, ebikes are totally antithetical to biking, full stop. The whole point of cleaning a sick section is that you did it, ebikes are just a fraud and they denigrate the work real riders do to progress.
  • 2 0
 @nozes: I don’t believe bikes are going to get cheaper no matter what happens if people will buy at crazy prices they will sell at crazy prices.
  • 27 4
 Non creaky cause fork ? Suntour Durolux
Affordable tough cassette ? SunRace 8 speed 11/40 cassette
Want powerful brakes ?
Saint and Codes
Why wouldn't a motor bike need heavier stronger parts? All motor bike use heavier stronger parts.
I ride a mountain bike. No interest in motor bikes.
E bikes are great for commuting.
Why do I never see anything about non motorized commuter bikes? Road bikes with knobbies?
Cross bikes ect,
Nope. But yes let's talk about motor bikes?
  • 2 0
 Mopeds don't really need stronger/heavier parts. The different certification boards around some countries require those parts to whithstand the increased stress of riding up to 25-35 km/h or whichever the permitted top speed is.

Now it's pretty stupid to certify a DH tire with the legend "for off-road use only" to match the conditions described above but then again the whole moped market is new and far from mature, so you end up with garbage legislation like that.
  • 22 0
 Not sure why Fox and alike can't fix creaky crowns that aren't e-bike specific. Probably better to spend resources on this known issue than Live Valving or whatever it's called.
  • 6 0
 Nah- electric reverb is R&D money well spent
  • 24 3
 Just buy a dirt bike, it's cheaper than most ebike's and WAY more fun. Then continue to ride a real mountain bike and enjoy the best of both 2 wheeled worlds.
  • 12 0
 That makes total sense, but it highlights the reason why so many of us hate ebikes.

The entire premise of the ebikes for MTB market is dependent upon trail access. The thinking being that if you can "get away" with riding these things on trails that you generally AREN'T allowed to ride a dirt bike on, you have the potential to create a much larger segment.

Think about how much the customer base expands when you remove the fitness barrier...
  • 4 0
 @huntingbears: that's every Ebike owner I've seen here. It's the industry/sales myth that Ebikes are 'intended' and bought for mobilitE or utilitE use that boils my piss the most. They're for the moto boys to unrestrict an rag an everyone knows it
  • 20 2
 This article smacks of a weird attempt to influence moped acceptance, disguised as an argument for “improved” components for bicycles. It’s gross.
  • 15 0
 "Dude, I have a genius idea. Let's write about ebikes, except, instead of saying that it's about ebikes, we'll say it's about how ebikes are impacting mountain bikes. The industry douchebags will love it, and our readers will be too stupid to catch on, right?"
  • 15 0
 Last summer we took the kids to Whistler for a long weekend. Brought all our bikes, rode lost lake area. Both kids were chugging it nicely up a decent hill (for them). 55+ silver fox Jerry with pads and fullface on a coil sprung enduro e-bike mobs past them. Jerry proceeds to swerve in front of the 7 year old and stop in front of her just at the hill crest. She's a badass so she mean mugs and goes around with additional effort. Dude wouldn't have been on the trails were it not for that bike. He lacked knowledge of etiquette and showed ignorance for the effort it requires to pedal a bike unassisted. It's not the bikes I'm worried about, it's the Jerrys.
  • 14 0
 Just like cars, technology is try to cash in. I don't need my car to parallel park itself, and I don't want batteries on my bike. Tech industry is driving the cost up on everything with silly features we don't need!!
  • 14 0
 North Americans are not on board with eMTB, (on the road is ok) we can ride moto if we don’t want to pedal off road, they are so separate- the law keeps them both on a short leash
  • 15 2
 See, if I wanted ebike content, I go to Pinkmoped. This is Pinkbike. I come here for mountain bike content. I'm a mountain biker, not an ebiker. When I come to Pinkbike for mountain bike content and you give me ebike content, it makes me like Pinkbike less.
  • 13 0
 Wait a minute.
These heavier stronger easier and cheaper to produce parts cost even more than the fragile lightweight throwaway harder and more expensive to produce parts?
Ahhhh the double ended dildo of the bike industry.
Let’s f*ck them however we can!
  • 15 3
 Or you could look at it from the point of view that all the ebike development is taking money from companies updating their regular bikes. Santa Cruz desperately needs to update the geo on the Hightower LT. Ibis needs to update the Ripley. Giant is giving up on the Glory. Specialized seems to be sunsetting the demo.

The common thread is that all these companies, big and small, are allocating their limited development money to ebikes.

Ebikes are killing DH bikes. Can’t blame the bike companies for following the money.
  • 3 0
 Specialized isn’t done with the demo. The new version is coming next year. This coming from an employee at a specialized dealer
  • 22 11
 Creaking fork CSUs are nothing more but a result of battle for grams, fed by customers as stupid as marketing managers. Yet another example of arms war between companies for stiffness to weight ratio out of pure fear of getting outgunned in sales. If RS makes a 50g lighter CS Fox will want to trump it with 75g. And then some German LARPer will make a 150g lighter one in his garage and call it ze leitast in ze vuould. The only measure is "lighter". If not lighter then MIPSer, faster rolling or more coil like - common sense gets lost. And if you think this is some XC weight weenies, no, not really, read some comments on some super bikes here on gravity, so awake as fuk Pinkbike. People whining "carbon bike costing 8k, weighs above 34lbs - should I start laughing?" - no, you should start crying over your IQ. But you can't since you are too stupid to realize how stupid you are. And if it's not about grams, it's about "lowest axle to crown", I guess that also limits the contact area of the steerer and the crown causing... creaking! And then we get RC and his educational crusade to make people understand how much better air springs are, while no one would piss on them even if they were on fire, if not the lower weight. They are progressive bladi bla, you can have plush beginning stroke without bottoming out. Oh really... so why do people set their forks hard as fuk and want adjustable high speed compression? Cuz the air springs got coil like right?

End rant. Great article Mike!
  • 6 3
 I Just dont get it... If the bike is too heavy then start working out... Otherwise youre avoiding the real problem. Oh and you can control your bike better, less fatigue and muscles protect sometimes.... But Instant gratification ftw
  • 4 2
 I used to downvote every single Waki post. "Is that a Waki post? Give him the old down-arrow clickaroo." I forget why I did it; it just became a habit over time. I pretty much don't even ride my bike anymore. And yet here's this guy who lives, breathes, eats, and shits mountain biking. It's his life. Gotta respect that level of dedication. It's inspiring. I am inspired. I feel the inspiration. So from now on I'm going to upvote Waki posts to restore the balance. This has been a public service announcement. /Fin
  • 2 4
 @sjflow: when you stare too long into the void... also it’s not dedication. It is a toilet for my thoughts... please keep negpropping me. Nothing kills me more than words of encouragement. I need people to hate me so that I don’t need to hate myself.
  • 16 2
 Vaccinations save lives. E-bikes don’t. Stop these unhealthy metaphors please.
  • 16 1
 You had me at E bikes are breeding. Kill them before they breed!
  • 14 1
 Had no idea about that cassette. Not far off what many of us here have been asking for for some time.
  • 10 0
 Electric mountain bikes shouldn't be the catalyst for the industry making better/more reliable parts. They should already have been doing that. You want to see this sport grow and expand? I sure do. The only way to make that happen is it to make it more accessible and affordable. Two things that are clearly not happening right now, and I would argue that e-bikes and their respective vastly overpriced "components" are contributing a whole lot to that. They're causing fear and prompting trail closures in communities by conflating what are essentially electric motorcycles with mountain bikes and justifying price hikes and standard changes on otherwise heavier componentry.
  • 16 2
 bicycle + motor = Motorcycle
  • 4 0
 Pretty simply really
  • 14 1
 So you're saying that e-bikes are like Herpes?
  • 11 2
 Stop writing about Ebikes PB. They’re not cool on so many levels. I agree with you that we all need better working parts but Ebikes don’t need to “innovate” these things. Engineers know about stress over time. So this is all disingenous.
  • 11 1
 The 8 speed cassete is definately of interest. My 11× is annoying as it is always going out of adjustment, and I don't really need the increments.
  • 10 1
 Time to change the name from Pinkbike to Pinkbike Action. Actually its been like this for over a year now. Pinkbike lost their edge and is just pushing industry drivel. What a joke.
  • 8 1
 I am liking the idea of wide range 8 and 9 speeds. I find my 11 speed feels redundant in higher gears. That said, it could use a tune and I am more of a "push your bike when it gets steep, mash high gears on the way down" type of rider rather than an all day peddler.
  • 14 7
 If you hate ebikes, send a message next time you buy, only buy bikes from companies that aren't making ebikes like Transition. Tell that company directly you support them because they support your sport.

Most of Mountain Biking culture doesn't share the same values as ebike culture, so stop ramming it down our throats telling us it's good and we'll like it if we try it.

#mtbmetoo #stopebikerape #idontwantyourbatteryinthere #pinkbikestopraping #ebikesareherpes #boycottEpinkbike
  • 1 1
 You can't circumvent that dilemma: If eMTB is making good money, most non-eMTB manufacturers will promptly spend your $$ on eMTB R&D and production.

It's the buyers who create the dilemma in the first place. I don't know who would want to "cheat" the climb only to descend on a 50-lb bike (old, fat Gen-X'ers? Millenials?), but there must be a lot of them.
  • 8 1
 Classic corporate MTB post.... Companys need to market things consumers want to see and are interested in. Not what they think will make them a buck or two, while loosing track of core image and how some became what they are today..
Freeride never died, its just called Enduro now...
Hoping this "marketing" loop comes to an end, I personally feel its hurting the industry itself.
  • 14 6
 Ebikes are like the Y2K virus. Everyone was running around like world is gonna end but around here they came, nothing changed and we just kept on biking.
  • 9 3
 Interesting piece - nothing like an opinion to bring out the opinions!! I had a similar conversation recently with some "industry affiliated guy", and if nothing else it's an interesting conversation, pity everyone has forgotten opinions are free to all, but not all are equal, e.g. "the greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions". I'm pumped about eMTB's, I don't own one, don't plan to in the foreseeable future, but once I reach a certain age, hell yes.
The entire mtb industry, like most commercial enterprises, is based on selling you overpriced and overrated "stuff", with a less than desirable price vs realistic life expectancy. Everything is a consumable, welcome to the 21st century. If eMTB is the motivation companies need to create more durable components, that's a win in my books. Whether or not you waste your money on those products, or the gold plated super light components you would buy otherwise, is entirely at your peril. If the product sucks, annoy the shit out of the company who made it, you don't vote only with your wallet, and you are certainly wasting your energy (like me) pi**ing and moaning on PB. Go ride your bike, and remember everyone else has the choice to ride whatever they want!
  • 2 1
~Best Comment Winner!
  • 10 1
 Fk that, When I was 25 i got dropped by a 65 yr old on a climb at 12k feet. When I'm 65, I wanna be that guy, not a fkg ebiker.
  • 4 0
 @matttauszik: F. Yeah! Ned Overend is still crushing. Just keep it up, as we age it takes longer to get "back in shape".
  • 8 1
 Fox is reporting the current from the motor can travel through the seatube, post and seat and gives a rash known as teh Eherp
  • 13 3
 Nice moped parts
  • 7 0
 "...it's clear that a lot of riders don't give a shit about the increase in grams just as long as there's a corresponding increase in reliability"
Ahem.... gearbox.
  • 10 5
 You want components you can count on for the long haul, buy shimano. End of discussion. E bikes, no, none of us like 'em, however, if you expect to ride bikes throughout your lifetime, you will have one. It is our destiny. Aging bodies, surgeries, physical limitations of any sort will have all of us considering the possibilities to keep getting our fix on the trails. Or you could sit on your butt watching the tube and fade into nothingness.
  • 2 11
flag d-man FL (Nov 22, 2018 at 16:41) (Below Threshold)
 None of "us"? You mean white guys? Ladies? There are obviously people who do like ebikes.
  • 4 1
 I really hate to say this but I'll roadie before ebike.
  • 1 0
 Who is this "us" you think you speak for?
  • 8 2
 The WP inverted fork had me drooling, then they're like, "EMTB fork". Dude I don't know what to say, a motorcycle with an electric motor, is just a motorcycle.
  • 12 4
 Are you fucking done mate, no one cares
  • 4 0
 Sounds like we're being given the opportunity to buy old robust gear at new inflated prices (marketing sorcery!) - if I want wider sproket spacing and greater jumps in gear ratio I'll just go back to 10 speed... If a want fat heavy rotors I'll buy the cheapest I can find and play with the brake bleed/piston advance... If I want a stiffer fork I'll just buy the fork model next up on the gnar-scale from the general riding I do. It's a bit like diesel being cheaper to refine than petrol but still costing more at the pump than petrol (in the UK).
I don't have a problem with e-bikes personally. What does concern me is how the wider MTB community has such a strong constitution for consuming and holding down the marketing guff that's now trying to get us to by gear that's not really designed for our bikes at all... Genius!
  • 8 1
 Did you write this propaganda for a free e-bike? Inquiring minds would like to know.
  • 6 0
 When bicycle manufacturers think they know how to build motorcycles! Bicycling is at a junction, and it seems the bicycle industry is heading towards motorcycling!
  • 6 0
 WTF is 'acoustic' bike.....who came up with this?? this just wallows in lameness. might need to take up playing guitar while riding an ebike-NOT
  • 4 0
 Ebikes are rad AF but they aren't MTB and shouldn't share the category/parts. I built mine to go 60kmh because slow motorcycles are dumb. It's scary using regular bike components I wish someone would actually make stuff that doesn't pretend to be a bicycle.
  • 10 3
 Disc thickness ? Chains beefed up ? Just look at a moto not at a moped!
  • 4 0
 It would be nice to look to moto for standards too..
  • 5 1
 I got a set of the eBike Fox 36's when Fox replaced my standard ones under warranty as they twisted (I asked for the eBike ones). They're notably stiffer and I'm happier with them
  • 3 0
 I am one of those riders considering using E-bike stuff on my non E-bike. At 235lbs component failure is something I think about quite often. Frames seem to be up to the task but wheels, brakes and forks from an E-bike sound good to me.
  • 2 0
I’m interested to hear what wheels, and brakes you have tried. I understand the idea behind the fork but there are plenty of non e-bike wheels and brakes that work great and don’t need an “e” branded version.
  • 3 1
 I agree with a lot the article said but I don’t think e-mopeds are requirement for better parts for mountain bikes. I personally don’t like seeing normal bikes referred to as acoustic and calling the others ebike. I think we should call those things what they are which is, moped. I also believe anyone seen riding a moped on the trails should be heckled mercilessly, especially on trails where they are not allowed. I think mopeds for commuting are cool or fire roads etc.
  • 4 2
 well having ridden a normal bike for 50 odd years i arrived one day at the inevitable heart problem couple this being over 60 i thought my riding days were spent until a good buddy appeared one day on a Haibike have a go on here my friend said and the rest is history 4 years on and one happy trail rider has got used to the extra weight and enjoying those miles of meditation once more add to this i can almost climb any hill even the ones i could`nt climb in the first place i`m loving the extra weight planted feeling on the descents stronger components make for longevity so whats not to like you still have to pedal it`s still fun and it makes this 65 year old feel 35 again!!!!!
  • 2 0
 The chance of Shimano, SRAM, etc. ever backing off the 1 x n+1 craze and admitting they're sacrificing durability is about nil. My cobbled-together 1x9 was stronger than my 1x10 which was stronger than my new 1x11, which broke on my second ride. I'm avoiding 1x12 as long as I can, but chainrings are already 1x12 "backwards compatible" to 1x11 and 1x10. But are they as durable as true 1x11, 1x10, 1x9? Of course not! The wider material is long gone. We're hosed by the industry we buy into.
  • 3 1
 So they got everyone to call them e-bikes instead of mopeds because most people think of mopeds as the motorcycle's lame little brother. Now they want us to call our true bicycles, "acoustic" bikes, because most people relate electric guitars to rock and roll, and acoustic guitars with some annoying dude at a campfire. I don't care if you want to ride a moped, but please quit trying so hard to make people think they are cool.
  • 3 1
 I thoroughly dislike being blown up on a climb by some dude with his saddle low knees spayed wallowing all over the trail. Get out there and work for it like everyone else. I wonder what these monstrosities will do for erosion long term. I'm no saint in this regard, but I can't see someone too lazy to pedal putting in tons of trail days.
  • 7 1
 Just pedal.
  • 1 2
 Just pedalec.
  • 1 0
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  • 3 2
 Creaky CSUs are complete bullshit. If E-Bike CSUs are the solution than sign me, currently going through a minimum of 1 CSU a year of not more.

@fox if your going to charge 1500+ CAD for a fork, I better see some solutions / progress being made towards fixing the issue.
  • 2 1
 One thing about those TRP brakes, riders at their level use pad compounds you can't buy off the shelf, eeeeeeeextra soft organic pads that last only a few runs. Otherwise, they just lack power compared to what the rest of the paddocks run ...

Still a good thing for TRP to have gotten the YT mob team in the bank for development and testing, but they really need better performing brakes (without loosing on the reliability or toughness!)
  • 5 0
 enduro specific strikes again
  • 12 9
 We need some new e bike specific trails!
In my opinion, this "ebike" specific concept is really close to "Enduro" specific concept.
  • 4 1
 well crafted troll comment 10/10
  • 4 0
 What you need is a downhill bike, dual crown no more creaking csu. Now down vote me.
  • 2 1
 That Sram Cassette is not a good example, but other than that I agree 100% with you. High-End components that cost a lot and only save a few grams are going out, reliable and durable mid-range aluminium components are the way to go.
  • 6 1
 Well this is actually the biggest load of bullshit I've ever red!
  • 1 1
 What are you doing with your bullshit? Oh nevermind, I don't want to know...
  • 3 0
 I'm surprised no one has mentioned short cranks becoming more available. Soon I won't need to hunt for 165mm cranks, and could even try shorter on my Downhill bike
  • 1 0
 This line:

"...the chance of your drivetrain self-destructing from you doing nothing besides looking at it wrong, which is something I often read about in the comment sections but have yet to see in person."

Well done!
Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
  • 1 0
 It really happens, trust me. It just takes salt, water and time. Lots of time. And looking at it wrong, obviously.
  • 4 0
 And they just posted a review about e-bike specific tires. lol. Not clicking e-bike related product reviews or features.
  • 3 0
 My buddy met a smoking hot and awesome Asian girl on a Herpes dating website. At that moment I wished I had Herpes.

I wonder how the dating action is on the HIV websites?
  • 1 0
 Ebikes have their place, for helping older riders who maybe can’t do the distances and climbs they once did to get out on the bike more. Or for people who may suffer from fatigue or some form of physical disability that limits how long or hard they can ride. For example someone with breathing difficulties that can’t put in a lung busting effort on a regular bike but still wants to get out there and shred.

As for the ebike specific parts, I can understand why tyres and drivetrain components need that extra strength as they will be directly effected by the extra torque from the motor. And if you’re going through the “normal” equivalent of those components at a higher than normal rate then I see no issue in using ebike specific parts as a replacement. But you’d have to be an absolute powerhouse or never maintain your bike (or both) to really need that extra strength.

I can kinda understand the need for stronger brakes on ebikes too. As the motor will allow you to gather more speed than you otherwise could on some sections of trail and you’ll therefore need to brake harder and/or for longer to slow yourself so you need brakes that will deal with that extra heat build-up on a more regular basis. However for there to be a really noticeable difference you’d have to ride the thing bloody fast everywhere and leave your braking as late as possible. Like Aaron Gwin I suppose... Though the reason he uses TRP ebike brakes could be because their normal brakes are generally crap, they are just slightly fancier Tektro’s after all.

As for the creaking fork CSU issues, this shouldn’t be an issue at all in this day and age. And ebike specific forks with a more “over-engineered” CSU should be the norm if that’s what it takes to prevent the issue. Or a one piece unit as suggested I the article.
  • 4 3
 eMTB is just like MTB without the tediously slow uphills. I used to race Motocross though so was always a fan of motors. I'm having more fun riding bikes that I ever did since I switched over, riding more and riding about twice as far each ride. Also riding more diverse trails too, since a whole new world of possibilities opens up to you. My fitness has also improved since I get out more often and cover so much more ground, upper body strength especially has got better. If you know, then you know. Just look how many pros are now riding eBikes. Most of them way more than they say too. The bikes are just getting better and better as well and the price of a decent eMTB is now the same as for a decent MTB! Seems crazy to go for a bike without a motor IMO, unless you are only riding park, they just feel kind of boring to me nowadays. Each to their own though. Normal MTB's still have their place, and if thats what you are into, keep doing it. If I hadn't discovered eMTB I would also still be riding a normal bike.
  • 4 1
 Mike Levy’s prediction came true... all I see are comments below threshold...
  • 3 0
 Hope made dual wall vented rotors way back before Ebikes were even a twinkle in the Energizer bunnys eye.
  • 9 8
 I rode an ebike this week with the intentions of making fun of it..... problem is... I smiled the whole time and had a lot of fun. Who cares about the BS. Do shit that makes you smile.
  • 3 0
 in the 90s I rode a hand welded frame with the fork and brake and front wheel off a CR 125. Moto stuff works. lol
  • 1 0
 That’s dope
  • 1 0
 @mkotowski1: can't find a single photo of the old beast.
  • 3 3
 There are different ways to look at this. One is indeed as Mike points out, some products developed initially for bikes with pedal assist can be used just fine on unassisted bikes. Especially as the "unassisted market" got a bit messed up with the strive for lightweight, sophisticated and efficient it kind of left behind those who just need something that gets the job done reliably. I've been using e-bike chains ever since I noticed they were around. If these stretch less, it is going to protect the other sprockets on my bike too. This spring I built a new bike and tried a regular chain again. For the first time in years, I've broken a chain again. Could be coincidence, could be because it was my first 10sp chain (been riding 9sp until then), could also be that the e-bike chains really are stronger. It is worth it to me.

The other way around, I'm seeing more and more previously mountainbike specific components on commuter bikes with pedal assist which (contrary to maybe the North American scene) completely dwarfs the eMTB market. Powerful hydraulic disc and rim brakes in particular. I think the entry price for these has dropped to half what they were a decade ago not in the least because the market has doubled. It doesn't hurt these companies, it doesn't the end consumer. I don't really see what's not to like.

Reading these comments it seems kind of painful to realize that the mountainbike scene has matured so much that it has become conservative. It doesn't seem willing to adopt a product initially marketed outside their safe space. Not even so long ago gravity athletes were using road racing rear mechs, wearing MX clothing and all that. Now Mike comes along and says "hey look, they've developed a product that could be interesting for us unassisted mountainbike riders too" and people go mental. If this sounds like you, sit down, double check your pacemaker and put on some soothing music. You're getting old.
  • 3 2
 Aaaaah.....a voice of reason crying in the wilderness! Good on ya, Vinay!

Controversy creates readership....which creates $$$$. Every voice (mine included) added to this "tempest in a teapot" makes for a bigger (and more profitable?) self-licking ice cream cone.

Thanks, Mike, for getting us to stretch our mindset and maybe appreciate that other disciplines' progress might also improve ours.
  • 5 4
 Thank you Levy! I love it when you point out the less than obvious facts for the internet vultures to feast on. Happy thanksgiving.....well in the states.
  • 5 1
  • 9 8
 They shouldn't be allowed on trails. Man has a way of f'n everything up...glad to see it batting 100% with this senseless innovation.
  • 2 1
 wait until you bust your knees- then you will very very very quietly buy an ebike and will erase such comments, quietly too
  • 5 3
 Now if everyone swapped out their car for an E-Bike the world would be a better place.
  • 2 3
 If ebikes get me away from pricey fragile carbon fiber, away from being car dependent, AND away from compromised part designs (reliability traded for lower weight), I can be open to them.

Problem is, I'm not very open to the geo on ebikes, nor the prices on the good ones. Pole Stamina-like geo at a more affordable price would get me to be interested. Mubea-like gearbox and high pivot would be a bonus.
  • 3 2
 I really hope the term "acoustic" doesn't spread... Its called a bicycle and its a sport without motors. the other is a motorbike or electric motor bike. sell out much?
  • 10 8
 i didnt read this because it looks stupid
  • 1 0
 you read it therefore you suck
  • 1 0
 Thanks for the information. Everything is very interesting and described in detail.
  • 3 1
 I wonder how a gearbox ebike would do.. maybe zerode taniwha e bike?
  • 5 2
  • 1 0
 Aren't Formulas rotors all ready thicker than most? The rotors I had with my old RX brakes were too wide to work in my XT's
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy. What were those engineering reasons that you were told by fork manufacturers regarding the creaky CSUs?
  • 3 2
 creaky CSUs are poor quality control. once fixed under warranty it's a non issue. e bikes are great as we all age
  • 1 0
 Shimano quietly released a nonseries 4 pot "deore" brake for ebikes...buy it!
  • 10 9
 E-bikes suck. This article sucks. Fuck e-bikes.
  • 2 2
 Missed the point
  • 1 1
 you are under 18, right?
  • 1 0
 Yeah that’s why we all bought DH components...
  • 1 1
 I always felt that a cr250 was the best overall , Honda reliability , 125 for a smaller rider
  • 1 1
 There's always that overweight nubie with the lightest and most expensive bike in a group!
  • 2 0
  • 1 0
 looks like dm stith's altar ego is secretly mountain biker, who knew?
  • 1 0
 this article gave me herpes
  • 2 2
 Nothing wrong with a square taper bottom bracket!
  • 1 0
 What, get outta here with that nonsense. That garbage belongs on 1950's road bikes, never MTB's in the first place.
  • 1 1
 The EX1 cassette costs NZD$666.00 here.
  • 1 0
  • 4 4
 How much $$ did the ebike lobbyist throw you to put out this article?
  • 1 4
 What happens with all this "eMTB" specific stuff when eMTB's are as light and agile as the modern trail bike? No, didn't read the article Wink
  • 2 3
 An eBike has a lot of torque. The new Haibike FLYON models have 120Nm, so you still need stronger components. You also ride way further most rides, and based on everybody I know who switched over, myself included, you also end up riding more often, so the components have to be tougher to last the same timeframe. For example, working a full time job and with 2 kids, and living somewhere there is snow 5 months of the year I barely reached 1000km a year in the past on my old Transition 29er. Since getting a Haibike AllMtn 3 years ago, I have always been over 2,000km. This year I am at 2,360.4 km, 67,692 m and 114 Rides, a new record at the ripe age of 42! Never had so much fun riding either.
  • 4 5
 FUCK the E bikes and to hell with all this bullshit
  • 1 3
 Mike Levy, you've got big balls. Love it!
  • 2 5
 Well written article, Mike. Highly volatile subject matter! People sure are easily offended.

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