There is a joke amongst some of the Lake Garda locals about German mountain bikers. It goes, "
If you want to find a good trail there, take the map, then ride everything backwards because it was drawn up for Germans who want to ride up the technical terrain and down the fireroads..." Like a lot of jokes, there is a kernel of truth at the heart of it, or, at least, there used to be. More than maybe any other nation Germany has embraced mountain biking, and it was always going to be a natural fit for a country that has a long heritage of outdoor exercise and healthy living. In typical German fashion, many of those who took up the sport did it in their own, inimitable way, and at the major European riding destinations there was a time when you could spot the Germans amongst the crowds, with their questionable fashion choices and uber-complicated bikes. Who do you think Shimano developed SPD sandals for? When SRAM first launched XX1, one of the first calls their marketing department received was from a German consumer who wanted to know if he could run it with a triple chainset so he could have thirty-three gears on his bike.
Anybody who went mountain biking in Germany during the 90s or 00s will remember the bikes you would see; they were nothing if not unique. While we can look at those bikes now and laugh, indeed most German riders would probably join you these days, the salient point is that you saw so many of those bikes because they sold a lot of them. At that time, the cost of entry to the market was pretty low. You could order a catalogue frame from the Far East, set your geometry, choose your spec and have it branded how you wanted. This made for a crowded marketplace, and it became a case of survival of the fittest. The companies that emerged from this era had to be strong; they had to fight for their customers in an environment where quality, performance, and value trumped brand or image. Once you reach a level playing field for value, then the areas for growth became quality, innovation, and service.
In recent years, these brands have started to emerge far more prominently on the world stage. Five years ago, few would have expected a mountain biker in the U.S. to know who Cube, Canyon, YT or Rose were. Today, those brands are major players on the international scene. If you're left asking yourself, "
How the hell did they get so big?" The answer lies in the way Germans do business. It is because they don't rush, and the emphasis is firmly on doing things correctly. These companies have been around longer than most people realize - Canyon are more than thirty years old, Cube twenty, and Rose are well over one hundred years old. That time has been spent building up solid foundations, so when they set their sights outside Germany they have experience, resources and, of course, the money to do it well. The bikes coming out of Germany are no longer jokes; they are serious, capable, and quite often sold for a fair margin less than their American counterparts. If you need further evidence of this, look no further than how high the Canyon and Cube teams are placed in the Enduro World Series standings.
Throughout the history of mountain biking, there has been a definite U.S.-centric leaning to the sport. It is where the sport emerged from, it is where the first major technical innovations developed, and it is home to the first great brands mountain biking has ever seen. As the sport has become more and more of a global phenomenon, that was inevitably going to change, and the future will surely be far more global. The German understanding of how to provide bikes that their consumers want at a price they can afford is unchanged. In a market where price is becoming an ever more important factor, their ethic of value over image is undoubtedly becoming more appealing to many.
In November 2015, we toured four of the most important players in Germany: Cube, Canyon, Rose and YT. We visited their headquarters to try to learn more about these companies that look set to change the landscape of the mountain bike industry in the coming years. For each company, we toured their facility, then sat down with their owners to find out where they came from and where they see themselves going in the future.
Stay tuned for an inside look at each of those companies.
As for the riding? We're lucky in the UK to have the Forestry Commisions (which are govt funded!!) to actually BUILD us trails all over the place! I couldn't live anywhere with a variety of riding within 1hrs drive, I feel hard done by having to ride 20 mins to my local riding spot. But then I did grow up with a massive natural playground on the edge of the small town I used to call home.
It might seem like a lot of work, but it's very fun, and you can literally make anything you want.
Just my insight of *super sensitive about environment*
you build an illegal trail in Germany and it's just a matter of time until you have some kind of authorities on your case... you wanna do it legally, you need alot of persevearance and time....
www.gravitypilots.de/gravity-trail-schlaeferskopf-wiesbaden
Now to the btchn part... just because ROSE or Canyon have been in the business for a long time doesn't mean anything, rather makes them look worse. All those companies, including Cube, Ghost and Focus had always shown some degree of cluelessness in 100mm travel+ as if they were catering to some isolated bubble of clients (my crystal ball shows - a long stripe of land spreading from Garda lake to Stockholm). Sorry for being harsh but most of them look like their genes were influenced by incest. But things are getting better now so let's focus on the future. Also, from all those companies Radons are best looking right now, well designed too.
...insist*
When you've seen the "cost of goods" figure on a bike, all it takes is some simple math to realize how much you're truly being raked over the coals. I'm all for businesses MAKING A PROFIT, but I'm much more inclined to spend far less money with a company who runs a leaner, more efficient business, and passes the savings on to me.
$7500 for your logo, and the privilege of having some snarky fixie enthusiast assemble my bike? Nope.
Quite honestly, there's nothing un-ethical about it, it's a business and companies need to make a profit to survive, grow, and put money into R&D. But if something is being marketed head-and-shoulders above the rest of the products in a company's lineup, chances are, it's not just because they like the color.
I know we all like to think of all bike companies being a bunch of rad dudes who go out and shred and high-five each other after work, doing it for the love of mountain biking, but the reality is that although this may be the case, they're also intelligent people who run complex businesses and want to make some money.
Drop revenue 70%, consumers will see the market constrict, less videos, less WC teams, less availability of product, etc. and ultimately less riders.
Don't forget that the retailer based model has benefits for consumers, it creates a lot of local bike shop jobs, while making it easier for consumers to access to parts and people with experience on your bike. In a lot of communities, the bike shop crews are also the trail and community advocates too...
I like all the direct to consumer brands, they're pushing racing and high end bikes forward, and will hopefully drive US companies to get scrappier, but it's more complex than just cheaper for me = best thing ever.
Cannot wait for it to arrive!
And my money
What I like though is what they have done to the market. They gave the North American Bike companies a run for their money and a taste or their own medecine
Kuddos to Trek and their online business model. The best of both world! It should help the LBS
When I look at the shops where Ilive – a town with 1,5M people and the Alps right around the corner – I wonder why/how they still exist. After 25 years of riding bikes and experience with the shops around here there's one(!) left that I'd trust. All the others at one point or another tried to rip us off and offered way less service than the mentioned direct resellers. Plus there's yet to be a positive experience with their workshops.
At that time each town -regardless of its size- had at least one excellent LBS. They did not made much money then I can give you that, but they were there holding the fort for the generations to come. When mtb came in Europe, cycling as a sport was not as big as it is now in Germany. But far more important it was way behind its western neighbors. Still, they had some pretty good LBS. Some made a good transition to mtbiking, some did not. And some new comers were there in the late 80s early 90s for the money only. The same thing was happening all over Europe at that time.
And then came the internet. Very interesting what they did in Germany, especially the way they sourced their parts and accessories. By cutting down some distributors or having few of them dealing the same product, they managed to cut down the price. The Veloland franchise set a good example. Some internet sellers came with low as f pricetag and many good LBS were not able to compete. Some knew what was coming but they did not had the fund to adjust and they had to close. That's why I think it is sad.
Quite a few nice LBS survived in historic markets. But in Italy, France, Spain, Belgium or the Netherlands we heaps of them. Germany had just less LBS like of that kind. Know that I'm not trying to say that German LBS are bad or anything like that, nor that I'm trying to say the grass is greener on the other side or the Rhine river. But I had a very funny experience in the Bavaria country side in the early 2000s. Me and my partner were touring around when her bike had some kind of mechanical issue. On a Friday late afternoon that could be some kind of problem ... but hey some locals gave us the direction of the next LBS but they were closing when we arrived. Another guy was here for the same reasons -issues on a formula B4 brake lever haha- and this guy was riding a Canyon.
I did not knew the brand back then, but the owner of the LBS seemed to know it quite well. When He was super kind and helped us, he was crystal clear with the other guy. He pushed him away and did not helped him at all that night. While we were fixing the bike we had a chat and few beers, and his arguments were quite convincing. All he said that day about what was going on back then in its country for the LBS or the cycling industry in general, was or became true.
From the rumors I've heard, Canyon is trying to build a relationship with LBS. True or false? No clue, but not everyone knows how to do basic maintenance. And those modern Canyon bikes are nothing but some cheap made Asian frames. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to fix them but they could be easy to mess with -like any other fancy products-.
On the other side, thanks to LBS, I know have the knowledge on how to fix my bike myself, and enjoy my Capra
After seeing the condition of my Trek Slash after a year of very light use (after mainly XC type riding it needed new bearings all round, bottom bracket, is creaking like anything, has a huge amount of paint chips etc), I took a punt on a 'Radon' 29er (radonbikes.de - the 'in house' brand of bike-discount.de) - I've been seriously impressed by the quality and significantly the price! More than 50% less for the bike I bought than the equivalent model from Trek or Specialised, while also having higher spec components all round. A year on, and I really can't fault it!
Service and warranty has been excellent too - the only issue I has was with a seatpost (adjuster dial stripped). They asked for an email detailing the issue, and had a new one (upgraded to a Raceface model from the bike above) in the post in 24 hours.
I've since bought a Cube CX bike from the same place. Again, it blows the big brands out of the water for quality and price.
I'll now always buy German. (I think there is a Radon Slide 140 with my name on it!
All part of riding a bike
I will agree that there's a real lack of decent trails around here though. I made the mistake of buying some mtn bike guide books for Europe, and almost every single one of the trails I've tried from those are mainly double-track often with a lot of road riding to connect them. I'm still shocked when I can actually find a decent bit of single track, even more so if it doesn't have a lot of scowling trekkers in their 60's and 70's on it.
I hope that my case was a rare one because the Germans make fantastic looking bikes which are affordable and would of love to have owned one. I see these bikes over taking the American market pretty soon! Also great article Pink Bike!
There were no issues with the nerve. Went and picked it up. The staff was very helpful and they spent about an hour dialing in everything for my wife. During this time I was asking questions about what the status of the spectral order was and that was when things got weird. I spoke to a few different people there over the next few weeks in person, over the phone, and emails. The phone calls and in person talks were vague and inconsistent. I would be told that I would have to speak to some other person in a different department, but I couldn't call them directly. I would have to wait to get an email from them within "24-48 hrs". These emails would never come, and I would just have to repeat the process.
This was super frustrating, especially after spending so much time researching and deciding on the first high level mtb. After all this run around I couldn't bring myself to spend an additional $4000 on a bike from them. I had lost all confidence in them as a company.
I ended up ordering a 2016 Ghost Riot 8 from a LBS and got it for the less than the spectral would have been. The shop owner and his staff were great and very helpful. And I couldn't be happier with the bike. I am also confident that if any issues arise they will handle them without the same run around.
It's really a shame because canyon does make great bikes. The Nerve that my wife rides is wonderful, and I wish I could have resolved the issues I had with the second order. I really think they just grew too fast with all the exposure they have gotten over the last few years and haven't been able to catch up with the demand of their customers. Maybe spend more time on customer service and logistics/less on marketing.
Another perspective is that bikes from Canyon, Cube, YT, etc. are a value option because they have held price points while the big US players (Trek, Specialized, etc) have insanely jacked up prices.
In any case, the situation is even more stark in the road bike world.
the reason Canyon, Rose and YT can offer such value pricing is because they have a different business model: B2C (business to consumer) i.e. direct selling
Trek, Specialized, etc. have bikes which are on face price more expensive, because they sell to bike shops (B2B) through distribution networks, who then sell on to the end consumer.
Their operating costs are higher, but they have proper in country sales and warranty support, as well as bike shop dealers to assist the customer by providing a fully assembled bike, fitting that bike, providing test rides, free service after initial ownership and direct support for warranty issues.
"Price" and "value" are very different, and the experience of a number of my friends who have bought direct has been less than stellar in terms of actually receiving their bike (constantly slipping delivery dates), and then warranty nightmares (especially one friend with a Canyon road bike).
In my professional experience as a workshop manager for some of the largest chain retailer and high end independant retailers, dealing with B2B distributors like Specialized, Giant and Trek in the UK for customer warranty support has been a pleasure.
Dealing with distributors outside of the UK (I am thinking of Derby in germany who distribute Cervelo and Cube into the UK) has been a nightmare with communication issues and long delays in resolving simple problems.
Opening a new boxed bicycle to find the frame has cracks around the cable guide and then taking 3 months to resolve is not good business, especially as our shop had to purchase another bike for that customer during this period.
The B2C model is very similar in this respect for a customer trying to warranty their remotely purchased bicycle. If you look at the recent apology Canyon have had to make to customers (whilst still taking new orders), what hope of fulfilling warranty for older customers, when they cannot deliver new goods on time?
The consumer has to make a choice, whether to shop on value, or price. There is room in the marketplace for both.
Personally? If buying a bicycle I want to buy from a dealer so I look at the "value" of the bike in that respect. Bicycles go wrong, sometimes from the box, and I want proper support because I value my time and don't need the stress of trying to resolve it myself.
If buying bicycle parts (Derailleur, tires,etc.) I am going to fit myself, I will shop on "price" from whoever is cheapest.
Funny that I just sold my last Specialized nearly unused 'cause the way the (specialized concept) stores handled warranty claims and repairs has been a nightmare. That's sad because the service from Specialized itself has always been excellent and I love their bikes.
very valid point - and something that has also changed here in the UK in the past season, from speaking to contacts working at brand stores. Its not the brand store themselves, but the withdrawal of the previous level of support from the distributor due to cost cutting.
Warranty support was always excellent from the big "S" and often based on 'goodwill' to protect the brand reputation. I presented a number of claims that were not specifically warranty (i.e. manufacturing defect) but SBC UK went above and beyond to keep our customers happy and on the trails / road.
I was working in a UK concept store when 'crash replacement' frame was withdrawn in favour of 'assisted purchase' bike.
This meant a customer with a S-Works bike at £6,000 was now facing the cost of buying a complete bike at £4,500 after damaged their frame; previously a typical crash replacement frame cost for S-W was say £1400. A sour deal for sure, and good way to really p*ss off a customer.
They would not supply frames for crash replacement as they had been told to cut their frame stock holding and just maintain a supply for genuine warranty claims.
This then presents a dilemma for customers - expensive bikes with less support in terms of crash replacement. You know you are going to crash, not "if" but "when"...it can be a simple as the bike falling over in your driveway and hitting a rock in your lawn (I specifically had a customer crack their CF frame doing that), or taking a tumble and your bike clips a tree damaging a tube. So you need crash replacement when examining the overall value of your purchase.
Where is the "value" I previously mentioned, if crash replacement is not valid, when the "price" is now perhaps seen as too high?
As usually a mtb coming from a direct sales brand costs less than half the price compared to a big name that asks a price for which you could get a new car, why not just buy two these cheaper bikes. Get 2 models from different manufacturers that you like.
Same price spent, and the big plus is that when one fails, you instantly have the other in your garage. I can't imagine that the big manufacturers who are said to have high prices would have you sorted out in the 5 minutes it takes you to grab the other bike. Another big plus, if somebody else wants to join you in a biketrip, there is a bike available. Plus, the bikes can be specced slightly different, so you can swap wheels if the local trail would require another tyre/rim setup. And of course, the biggest plus, when one day you decide to sell, you'd lose much less money compared to a 8000-10000 dollar bike. So, in my book, many pluses for no real disatvantage. Sure waiting 2 months or more for a bike to be shipped is a pain, but once you have the first, you have something to ride till the "new" comes in. And support from big brands is not stellar anywhere in the world. I have had trouble finding the information I needed from official dealers; orders that could not be delivered at all after I've payed for them etc.
Not to forget the stupid "enhancements" and "features" that big names put on their bikes, just to be different - proprietary parts and unnecessary complications in frame design etc. So at the end of the day, I gladly took a bike from a direct sales in Germany, even if being 2000 km away, warranty seemed frightening. I had an issue with the rear hub: broken springs. Mailed them, they have kindly provided me with all the necessary information (instructions+free return label), and also they've pointed out that sending broken items back wasn't really necessary- in this case, a photo which I've send directly to the hub manufacturer was enough. 10 days later, I receive the springs. From this point you either have the option to have them installed in a LBS or do it yourself. Of course I could also have the entire rear wheel sent back to the manufacturer for minimum personal hassle, but it can't harm to try to sort simple things by yourself. The same bike also had a problem with the shock leaking oil (RS Monarch Debonair..), and the bike manufacturer was more than helpful; with the shock being brand new, I did not want to tear it down locally for inspection to avoid discussions for guaranty loss. So they've fixed it. At this point, after a season, the RS Reverb begins to dive under load but even if this is mostly only a question of bleeding, they have offered again a free return so they can inspect it themselves. At this point I am more than pleased with the bike+helpfulness I have received for the 3600 Eur I've spent for a modern, well designed, very good performing bike. Not sure if I would have had the same satisfaction with a 7000 Eur big brand bike I was looking to before going with the one I've got. And also, there is the same time to wait for retail parts - two forks I've bought separately had to go back to Germany for warranty issues, so retail does not equal time gained in any situation.
Could it be that these companies (and I am specifically thinking about the mega long delivery times) have not yet been able to sort out there supply and support structures to properly deal with these risks? I.e. Producing in batches rather than to order/ limited in country support. Seems to me that supply shortages/warranty issues frequently discussed in relation to these brands might be less than accidental.
Furthermore, YT and Radon don't have problems with delivery, at least afaih.
They have more than enough customers waiting for their bikes so they wouldn't have a great deal of incentive to change I would think - thereby in one way failing another point of lean manufacturing - customer satisfaction... though that does get met for those that actually receive their bike by how brillant their product is.
Just how long term their strategy will serve them, i don't know. They are shipping 100's if not 1000's of bikes every day with the majority being (i assume) very satisfied. Im not aware of any sales figures but my hunch would be that Canyons sales across road bikes, and mtb are exponentially bigger than the other mail order brands (like YT, Radon etc) COMBINED.
I have a 2014 Spectral, which i received from the first batch after a sh1tfight with them to actually get it, a mate ordered a roadbike from them, received an initial wait time of 2 months, which dragged on and in the end was told 1 year!!... despite the fact that if you were to put a newer order in you'd get it in a few weeks! and their CS didnt see a problem with that when challenged.....despite all of this lunacy , the bikes are awesome and awesome value, and I am considering getting a Strive.... money is precious so I'll have to see if my monetary common sense will keep my patience in check.........
all of Canyon's carbon fibre frames are manufactured by Giant in Taiwan, and then shipped to Germany for bike assembly
I do think that a lot of the US manufacturers are taking the mick with some of their pricing though - Santa Cruz prices are just plain crazy! Hopefully the rise of the Germans will make the establishment boys sit up and pay attention? It can (hopefully) only benefit us......
Canyon's bikes just break down by simply watching them...unreliable technology.
Shapeshifter is the weak link on the Strive #canyon mine broke down after 3 times out in the mountain. It's been 4 months with no spare parts. Don't buy #canyon
Canyon, instability should not be selling it STRIVE.
It has many faults.
Check, please.
www.pinkbike.com/u/rocina/album/CANYON-STRIVE-shapeshifter-Of-assorted-failure
www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=149137&pagenum=161
German bike? It will never never buy again .
Check, please.
www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=149137&pagenum=160
www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=168001&pagenum=7
Canyon, instability should not be selling it.
It has many faults.
Check, please.
www.pinkbike.com/u/rocina/album/CANYON-STRIVE-shapeshifter-Of-assorted-failure
Really frustrating for women too with short legs and longer bodies. The alutech icb2.0 looks great though.
My question regards Cube. The more I look at the 2016 Stereo 160 range the more I like them. The price is perfect, even with import duties from Chain Reaction. Are they reliable? Are the bearings a standard type that I could get from a LBS?
I will be riding all over Colorado and some in Utah. Any insights would be welcome.
Side note: The only shop to not act pretentious was Campus Cycles in Lakewood, CO
Too much broken and repaired many times more than the time riding a bike
Headquartered already know the problem
Why do not I do not know whether the recall.
If you should buy a Canyon bike
I will never recommend
Shapeshifter is 2 times broken. last after service spare parts not avliable . now only re bleeding
Damned, they got me.
But why are Radon/Canyon/Cube so boring?
CANYON, They are not interested in quality management and customer .
They are just a show and collect money, really disgusting .
For Berlin: that place is freestyle heaven. Get yourself a street/dirt bike and enjoy all the skateparks, pumptracks, dirt jumps, street spots etc that the city has to offer. So many of them and very high quality. A fun scene aswell!
@Tarekith the 2 meter rule is only in the southwest (I think it was Baden-Württemberg) none of the other areas in germany has that stupid rule.
www.trailtrophy.eu/tt-harz-en.html
vimeo.com/131852099
Shapeshifter is the weak link on the Strive #canyon mine broke down after 3 times out in the mountain. It's been 4 months with no spare parts. Don't buy #canyon
They do not care about customer complaints .
Canyon, instability should not be selling it STRIVE.
It has many faults.
Check, please.
www.pinkbike.com/u/rocina/album/CANYON-STRIVE-shapeshifter-Of-assorted-failure
www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=149137&pagenum=161
Sorry, had to say it. probably has to do with being designed from an engineering perspective which is all good but now inject a bit of rider perspective and give something to the trails as someone was saying, 'get into the vibe', make it a lifestyle thing (as terrible as it sounds) and I am sure the aesthetics would improve. Nicht?
14761-presscdn-0-15.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Radon-E-MTB-und-Soulfire-First-Look-12-von-21.jpg