A Paris court has released its verdict on a case between the FFM (French Motorcycle Federation) and the FFC (French Cycling Federation), which was about whether the FFM could use certain trademarks related to e-bikes, but which may have broader implications for eMTB racing, trail use advocacy, and the image of electric-assisted mountain biking as a subsport of either mountain biking or motorcycling.
The court ruled that the FFM did not have the right to claim trademarks for names like Coupe de France VTTAE, VTTAE Enduro, French Championship VTTAE, and Trophée de France E-VTT that include terms related to eMTB racing such as VTTAE (the French term for eMTB), E-VTT (literally, e-MTB) and E-BIKE, and that those terms would properly fall into the FFC’s domain.
All in all, the FFM had to relinquish ownership of more than 20 trademarks to the FFC, and about 15 others have been canceled entirely.
If what we’ve seen so far is any indication, races for electric mountain bikes
tend to work better when organized by people who have organized mountain bike races before. Remember this?
Moreover, this may help set a precedent for French communities about whether to view these contraptions as mountain bikes or motorcycles, helping to keep the issues of trail access for eMTBs separate from the issue of trail access for motorcycles.
The FFM has one month to appeal this decision. For more information, find the full judgement here
And now the shoe is on the other foot.
Live and let live.
have you ever participate in a marathon xcm race in a slightly moist day.. the kind of in which up to 3000 ppl take part?
do you know how the trail looks after 200-300 riders?, do you know how the trail looks after 1000?, after 3000..the trail looks like a trench war.
now use math and figure out what 3-4 times more usage does to a trail in the same amount of time?!
Some area may need to consider special permits(tax lol) to pay for that.
Also if someone is only 150lbs and has a 40lb EMTB compared to someone who is over 200lbs with a 35lb enduro bike, the EMTB will probably cause less trail damage. Now if you base ebike hate on EMTB's doing more laps or riding further that is probably complaining too much. What if a person rides a EMTB once a week and another person rides his/her regular pedal bike every day. If they are riding the exact same route and distance, the person on the regular pedal bike is actually riding 7x more, thus causing 7x more trail erosion. What if a family of 5 rides the same distance as someone on a ebike, as that would cause 5x more trail erosion on any given day.
I would suggest some of the ebike haters actually get out there and help maintain and build some trails instead of complaining about how EMTB's riders can choose to ride further than they can. That would be much more productive and you will see what hard work and helping others will do for everyone to enjoy riding. The most important point is that everyone gets out and enjoys this great sport as MTB is all about having fun, getting exercise and enjoying the great outdoors. It does not matter what you ride, just ride what you brought...Happy trails everyone!
It would be hilarious to read some of these kids (ebike haters) comments later when they finally realize how much fun riding a EMTB is and can actually afford one instead of needlessly complaining about something they obviously do not understand...
On thing is for sure, they do get completely f*cked in a single run by a motorbike.
Also, what's your opinion on shuttling for dh laps?
your logic is sound.. if you're 12. if you are an aduld, I've got some news for you.
You seem to be confused about what mtb-ing really is, so let me clarify that for you:
you go up a hill, rest a little, enjoy the view and the fresh air and then you go down the trail as fast as your little gummies let you.. or your skills... or both.
now, my friends and buddies that got into e-riding, used to do 1 loop on bikes in spring, autumn and early-late winter... and maybe 2 in the summer(the fittest ones) as the days are longer and it is warmer. Now, on electrics, they do 3 or 4.. and, as the battery tech keeps evolving, they will probably do more than 4 in the future. If that isn't trail erosion, I don't know what is. The simplest of example is any bike-park trail; most of them get 'effed up in a couple of weeks. If the same(or even more) no. of ppl do 4x.. 5x the riding on the same trails, what do you think it will happen?
and no, we are not talking about a 2 hour weekend e-ride that Joey does it with his wife and kids on flat double-tracks, as for that to have an impact, it would need thousands of Joeys... no, I'm talking about real mtb-ing, with real mtb-ers on mtb or natural trails!
the good for nature part of mtb-ing is the accesibility; even if you, as a rider, have all the mountain at your disposal, you can't do it all, as you don't have enough fitness and/or stamina.. - or at least, most of us don't- and that naturally limits the bad effect us humans do to the nature. With the proliferation of electrics, suddenly, the whole mountain is a Disney for outdoor playground type, limited only by the battery capacity..and, in every way you look at it, that's sad af!
You sound like a spoiled kid, Johnny next door got a new bike and I want one. Johnny rides further than me. Johnny has a better bike than me and does more laps than I can, so I'm pissed off he's in better shape than me and this is really unfair. Seriously, stop crying about nothing and just enjoy what this sport offers. I gather you hold some of these childish comments in when you are talking to your ebike friends, and just like to hide and complain behind your computer? If not, sounds like you will have no friends in the end. Is the actual problem here that you cannot keep up to your ebike friends? Seriously, get a life instead of trying to sound smart which you seem to be losing ground quite quickly...
With your reasoning, maybe everyone should just stay home and not even walk in the trails for fear of trail erosion. Unfortunately, it is a fact that MTB trails have many more riders than just 10 years ago, so we just have to work with what we have. This is called evolution and we all have to face this fact. Maybe you should actually help build and maintain trails instead like the rest of us do, or this might cut into your complaining time? Again, it's obvious if facts hit you straight in the face, you still look oblivious. Due to this, I will not waste my time repeating the facts again. Some people you just cannot explain anything to know matter how clear it is. Maybe one day you will finally be a nicer person and respect others instead of sounding like you do now, That is the only reason why I have fired back like I have, as you deserve it based on your ugly attitude towards others. I have always had a lot of respect for others, but when some kid decides he wants to try and be tough and put other people down, I will fire right back. You obviously missed this important class to do with life, "treat others how you want be treated yourself".
For everyone else, just enjoy riding your bike whatever it is...Happy trails!
Separately, so you're an old dude like me. You apparently rode back when things were mostly pirate and unsanctioned, trails were deer or hiker paths that did double duty, and suspension was crazy future shit. Put yourself back in that mindset for a minute, then explain to yourself that trails would become the engineered, machine built, berms, stunts, leaf blown, glorious stuff we have today. Can you honestly say you wouldn't have bristled at that idea? Making darn highways and Disneylands in the woods, destroying the soul of MTB? And you wouldn't have looked at a modern Enduro rig and say it's just a f*cking Moto? Come on, be honest.
wow... aren't you a bright one? ))))
now, go back and read what you have written, have a laugh at it, like the rest of us and do try to be smarter in your next reply.. or simply be even smarter than that and don't reply at all.
fyi, I am buying a light weight electric; not to do laps with it as I'm not living at the base of a mountain and, trust me, in the flatlands, an e-bike has no purpose or use. The reason I'm buying one is to speed up my 'overmountain' traverses.. or epic days. I can be with the beer in my hand in 5 hours instead of 8 while being able to function like a normal human being in the next day.
Like I have told you though, my buddies that do live with the mountain in their doorstep, most of them got one of those big burly 24-28kgs electric pseudo dh bikes, which is good for them as they can squeeze more laps.
one thing has nothing to do with the other. I'm not against (fully) electrics... I was just explaining to you how the trails will and are gettin' 'effed up from more riding on them. There are no IFs scenarios, just simple reasoning and math.
if 100 ppl do 1000 laps per week instead of 300, that trail will be' effed up much faster than before and you can bet on it.
And one more time: the amount of damage modern day bikes to to trails is orders of magnitude worse than the old rigid bikes of the 80's. The number of riders that modern bikes allow to enter the sport and then crowd the trails is orders of magnitude greater than the old rigid bikes of the 80's. So where do you draw the line? Or, instead, why not simply use that established example as a guide on how to usher in this inevitable paradigm shift?
.....yu jean...yu jenn...yu dumbassnux....the nux is silent (if only)....Eureka, I want one! Duuude.
Another good marketing strategy=tickets suck, out run Em on E
well, forget it, I'm off to bash some 1.5 meters of snow. Let's bitch about whatever subject in 8 to 10 hours or so!
@Chuckolicious: rise ftw!
The topic throughout has been trail wear. Where you came up with whatever environmental thing you just blurted at the end, I got no idea. You ok, bud?
"Khan", too funny..."Welcome to Fantasy Island"....except he's Tattoo :-) But probably likable if you got to know him
Basically, as long as it doesnt have to have a license plate, it's allowed-or at least not being looked at here.
Covid has been awesome for that.
(National Dyslexic Association
"So glad I bought this amazing bike; I love mountain biking! It’s way easier than I thought!" #wentmtb #slayedit #sognarly #livingmybestlife #ebike #Blessed #YOLO #Winning #Fitspo
If you can’t put a water bottle in it but it’s coefficient of erosion is less than 1.0 then it’s probably a bike (and looks like a session).
If it’s coefficient of if erosion is great than 1.0 but it does allow for the fitting of a water bottle retention device then it’s probably on back order until next October.
There are plenty of arguments to be made against ebikes, but the "earn your turns" one is stupid.
Do you have a problem with chairlifts or shuttling because I would argue those require even less physical effort that riding an ebike up a hill?
My original comment was in response to the guy making fun of people who want to ride ebikes - claiming the were a "weakling who should be ashamed". You back him up saying that physical activity has always been a part of the sport and that keeping it that way is "100% a relevant argument". I did and do disagree, bringing up chairlifts which require no physical exercise to gain thousands of feet of elevation.
You haven't addressed how, say, shuttling a lift access park on an ebike is any worse than riding the lift up.
Instead you say that ebikers cause excess wear on the trails (something I generally agree with, though I think it is more complicated), but that doesn't have anything to do with people riding them being a "weakling who should be ashamed".
Perhaps you are trying to say that ebikes are bad because they allow a lower barrier of entry to the sport and therefore allow more people to ride trails more often, thereby lessening the quality of the trails, and to solve this issue we should ban ebikes and/or relegate them to their own ebike specific trails.
While I do agree that this is a problem, I think that overall getting more people into the sport of mountain biking is a good thing. I love this sport and I want to share it with others. I do think work needs to be done to mitigate the damage ebikes can cause and educate new riders on proper etiquette as well as find a way to get them to help maintain the trails they're riding. Rather than building ebike specific trails I think that money is probably better spent maintaining and building trails that everyone can ride. Obviously, I don't know how to solve all these problems, but I hope (and believe) that we will in the future.
I certainly don't believe that riding an ebike makes you a worse person than not riding one. There are good people on ebikes who use them to bring a chainsaw and clear a trail before getting in a few runs - just as there are a*sholes on regular bikes who destroy a berm thinking they are being ultra cool schralping turns.
b>I think that we should encourage people to mountain bike regardless of their level of fitness or their reasons for doing it./b>
Anyhow, let me elaborate on my initial point. DH bike parks are designed for DH bikes to get in as many laps as possible, and I am sure you are aware of how this style of riding and frequency on the trails erodes them much quicker than a trail-system without lift access. You would also know that they hire trail crews who put in countless hours (and money) to repair and maintain the trails that are pounded by thousands of riders every week throughout the season, but this is a known variable that DH parks have to account for, they were designed considering this fact... In that context, E-bikes carry a similar tax on a trail system that wasn't designed for them, and unfortunately, most of these systems don't have the same caliber of trail-maintenance or funding that major resort-style bike parks do, so we are at the mercy of Bike manufactures and municipalities to recognize this and try to prevent it.
Perhaps you are correct that the addition of people to the sport via E-bikes may bring more awareness and funding to our trail-systems, and let's hope that's the case. But for now, we can assume that E-bikes, that carry a lower point to entry to the sport in regards to athleticism and the frequency they are able to ride a trail due to this, along with the increased number of riders, will inevitably erode our trail-systems. Hence my suggestion to separate E-bike trails from traditional trails. Have E-bikers fund, build and maintain their own trail-systems... Similar to hiking trails, dirt-bikes trails, horse trails, etc.
I think that we should encourage all riders to join their local bike clubs to help maintain our current tails, but also ensure our governments aren’t lazy about this topic. Don’t just slap a class the E-bike and call it a day, they need to ensure our MTB ecosystems stay intact.
You still haven't addressed my initial point which isn't "another argument", but actually the one we were initially having. As I said in my last commen, how is the amount of effort someone puts into climbing at all reflect on the caliber of the person doing the climbing? Perhaps they have a job where they do hard physical labor all day and just want to hit some jumps without having to grind up a hill. Or perhaps they just don't like cardiovascular activity and just want the adrenaline rush of hurtling down a hill weaving through trees. Why does it matter to you?
I'll be honest. Aside from the many reasons that are listed on this forum and many others, the main reason I personally can't stand E-bikes is watching someone in half my physical condition buzz past me on a 45km ride and not even break a sweat... Likely someone who otherwise wouldn't have been able to accomplish that ride. It just irks me, which I think is the reason why most people have hate towards the e-bike industry. It's important to note that this is different than a Lift access Bike Park because that's the expectation of going to a bike-park, everyone is on that same playing field taking the lift (generally).
For context, this is the same reason people in Squamish didn't like the idea of the Sea-to-Sky Gondola going in.. For decades, people hiked the trails there and it was a grind that not all could accomplish because it took physical effort and determination, and the reward was an incredible view that only a few could witness. Now every city slicker from Vancouver can just pay a fee for a tram to the top and add a new post to their Instagram.. It somehow takes away the spirit of the climb. It's no longer sacred.
This is the same way I feel about E-bikes and the direction they are pushing our sport, it's been commercialized to the masses but now with easy-access via an electric motor.
Of course, it can be aggravating when you do a 100k backcountry epic that you are proud of and then hear some guy bragging about how he did it in three hours with a stop at McDonalds in the middle. But it is a different thing. Take chess for example. I can run an open source chess program (Stockfish) with the power of my phone and beat the top five grandmasters any day of any week. Yet people still play chess. Why? Because it is different playing against other people and still just as challenging as ever. Ebikes are obviously different to pedal bikes and rides that would be normally be impressive aren't.
I think people just have a hard time remembering that they have a different challenge when you see someone blow past you on a climb. If we could all keep it in mind there would be so much less hate for ebikes. To be clear plenty of ebikers exacerbate this issue by bragging or racing when they haven't actually done anything impressive.
As far as something like the Sea-to-Sky Gondola yes it definitely lessens the rarity of the view, but I don't think that is a bad thing. I hope people get opportunities to see as many beautiful things as possible in life. Something that used to be special no longer is (which is sad), but more people get to enjoy a beautiful view (which is good).The problem is that these people think that they have accomplished something special and unique (omg I made it to the top) when they did no work. In my opinion the problem is with the individual not the system.
This seems to be the natural progression and fighting would be futile.
- Niche is niche and therefore special and impressive.
- Because it is impressive more people try and technologies and techniques develop to make it easier
- New niches form because now the old one is mainstream and those people need challenge and a way to feel special (example singlespeeders)
Mountain biking is squarely in the second and third steps here. People are understandably upset that something that they used to be unique in doing is now mainstream and commercialized. Instead of complaining about the way things were I think people just need to accept it and find a new niche were they fit in. I'm buying a rigid mtb for this exact reason. I do calisthenics instead of standard gym workouts for this reason. Everyone wants an opportunity to excel and be better than others - whether they admit it or not.
Unrelated, but it is quite nice to have a respectful, thoughtful discussion on the internet.
I can agree that we should just find our own niche and stick with it, so long as the commercialization and overuse of other niches don't crowd the sport and ruin it for anyone. That's the one important caveat to all of this, isn't it.
Anyhow, all points made were good. Nice chat. Cheers.
Ebikers can no longer say, “Braaaaap!”. They have say, “zaaaaap!”.
Seems like the attitude of who cares what you’re riding as long as you’re having fun, showing respect for other trail users and the trails, has been eroded.
The downside of the growth in e-bike usage is that so many new riders have come into the sport, bought an e-bike, but have little knowledge of how to ride and how to behave.
I am badly asthmatic but love doing sport and push myself hard
I do not have an eBike but I do see the day when if i want to keep riding with my sons and for all of us to keep having fun I'll need some eMTB assistance. I will do whatever I can to keep riding trails with my sons for as long as possible! My Asthma and other MTB/sport related injuries will become a limiting factor and if an eMTB is the solution then damned if i'm going resign myself to the sofa instead!
Ebikes should only be used by certain people, in certain situations. And only on approved trails.
I keep seeing more & more garbage on my local trails, more people cutting the trails, riding the crap out of it when it's soaked, and people tearing it up with their ebikes. There are more people on the trails, and they have NO RESPECT for said trails.
How could we forget that debacle.
But is a really hard job in chew up trails on an e-bike & really easy on a motorcycle?
Do FFM have moped racing?
"Stop acting like using an e-mtb on every mtb trail is some basic human civil right, and that everyone that disagrees with that is just being prejudice for no reason"
Never said anything, I mean ANYTHING, of the sort. That's the narrative running in your head, not outside here in reality.
"And as far as your opinion that the whole industry is going this way and soon"
Clarify, are you saying that I said all bikes would have assist, or that bikes equipped with assist would become commonplace? Big difference, please tell me what you think I said.
And the irony that the bulk of your comment is you pissing on people who might choose Ebikes. Literally. Dude, you seem utterly disconnected from reality. Here, here's a choice bit you just typed: "It makes me cringe, and I don't know how people say those things without feeling embarrassed"
More irony is you appointing yourself the arbiter of what constitutes real mountain biking. Maybe you actually gave yourself a big hint when you typed "...I can't understand why so many people can't see it." Key words "so many people". Do some ruminating on that. Trust me, you're onto something there.
Yes I do have an opinion about what is considered mountain biking, which is that the bike is human powered (for all those without some disability or other special exception). You also have an opinion regarding this, do you not? You have just chosen to draw your line at a different place than me, which in your opinion makes me exclusionary and intolerant, but your opinion is fair? Where do you draw the line? Is your line at class 1 e-mtbs or class 2 or somewhere else? Or do you really think that everyone should get to decide their own definition of "real mountain biking" and for anyone else to disagree makes them intolerant? If this is the case then it's fine for someone to decide that riding their 250cc dirtbike on the mtb trails is considered "real mountain biking" right? And for you to disagree would make you intolerant? After all, a 250cc dirtbike won't go down the trails by itself, it requires quite a bit of human powered input to steer, balance, lean, etc. So unless you're willing to say that the trails should be open to any vehicle that anyone considers in their own opinion a mountain bike, then I guess you have also appointed yourself an arbiter of what constitutes real mountain biking.
You have clearly misinterpreted "so many people" to mean a majority or at least a significant portion of the population, which is not the meaning in this case. For example, I also can't believe so many people are racist. Do I think the majority of people are racist? No I don't. But I see enough racism to believe many are, and I can't believe how many that is. Your last point clearly insinuates that I should consider that because "so many people" have this thought, that it must be right and I must be wrong, but that is terrible logic on it's own. Do you think that because so many people are racist that there might be some logic to that? Or is it possible that many people could be so concerned with only their own selfish view of the world that they believe in something without much or any logic behind it.
I personally think that mountain biking on mtb and shared mtb/hiking trails should be limited to human only powered bikes (for all those without some disability or other special exception), and that opinion is not based on my own selfish wants but based on what I think is generally best for all who use those trails and the parks that many of them are within.
Hey Guys - so Vince you're 36, Rob? I turn 60 this summer. Started on a ridged 26" in 1986 at 25 years old. That's coming on 34 years on MTB bikes as a non pro enthusiast.
I rode that bike for 8 years, 5 in Ontario and 3 in California. Very different terrains. The bike was a Miele of the era. Triple ring, V brakes, no suspension etc.
Suspension on bikes was starting to come when I moved to Cali. My thought in Ontario of the XC style flow trails was man, who needs suspension? And I was racing Motocross in Canada. I love anything on two wheels.
Once I started riding in CA I found out why Cali was the place mtb suspension development was taking place. The downs after the long steep climbs beat the crap out you. We rode them though, without pads too.
In 1994 I bought what I thought was the best full suspension bike for the masses - a GT RTS-3. $1200. Look it up and marvel at the specs.
I still own it and occasionally ride it...a really good way to get perspective of what MTB bikes have become.
I own multiple bikes now. DH, long travel enduro, and yes - an emtb. Road bikes too. And an XC Lefty.
I'm lucky to have sons who ride. On trails and Bike Parks where emtb is legal and the eeb is appropriate, I ride it and love it. On the hard pack of Socal I don't believe anyone can tell when an ebike rode a trail or a 17 year old ripper just shralped a berm. I ride uphill at my non e group pace and down at my pace. The up pace is way more than I can do on my normally aspirated enduro. The riders are fast, young teens and twenty somethings. They rip. Really fun to watch them have so much fun. And Socal is an awesome place to ride.
My 2018 Levo has 32/10-42 gearing. On the steep grades we climb, in eco, (what I use when I ride the bike), I still work at getting to the top. My HR is a safe 80% of max. I sometimes turn the motor off to climb if I feel strong and the grade is not a granny gear climb. No wheel spin. I get a work out, no question. The beauty of e is the ability to control the work out. You can still mash on a climb if you want.
I ski, play hockey once a week - with some ex pros I'll add...yup, quite a hockey scene in LA. I played with Travis Greene as a Teammate....Vince may know who he is.
So I'm in decent shape but not Johnny O'mara (who's a machine) shape and my age ish.
If I get to the top of a long, steep climb in eco with tall gearing by 30T /10-52 standards - have I earned my turns? By your standards I have not. By my standards I have.
Maybe all riders should be required to ride a no suspension period bike from the beginning era of MTB for 2 years, 25% of the time I spent riding that style of bike - to earn their turns. 160mm, droppers, discs, 64 degree HTA's, 10/52 cassettes, tubeless, 29, mullet, 27.5....wow these are awesome bikes. Are they earned?
If you pledge to ride a vintage no suspension 26" bike for two years and nothing else on the trails or DH parks you ride, I will get one to you. They are available on PB. After two years send it back. You can ride with all your buddies but only on the vintage bike. Only one vintage bike for all styles of riding. Like I did. With tubes.
Will you be able to keep up with your buds? Will they wait for you? Hitting A-Line? Will you have fun? Nothing about trail erosion, or crowds, or sacred riding spots, or rider etiquette, or rider ability. It's an equipment related rite of passage to earn your turns.
Preposterous idea? As Preposterous as you telling me to earn my turns on a bike you deem appropriate.
@Chuckolicious may have some input to the vintage scene...
I started seriously mountain biking on a late 90s schwinn frontier, an all steel rigid 26" bike with center pull rim brakes and a 3x8 drivetrain; I was a bit younger than 25 back then. On that bike is where I learned most of the technical abilities I have today. After years of riding that bike, and about 10 replacement single wall rear rims, I upgraded it with a rockshox indy 80mm fork and nicer double wall rims, and man I felt like a machine after that. I still have a 26" rigid in my collection today, albeit a much more modern aluminum frame/carbon fork bike, but I still take it out 1-2x a year which is enough of a beating on my wrists for the whole year. So no I don't need a lesson from you in earning my turns.
And to your question is someone actually "earning their turns" on a modern geometry 160mm travel 29er bike with a dropper and 52t cassette etc. etc.? My answer would be yes, because as I stated previously, all that technology only improves the efficiency of the rider's output, it doesn't add to it, so every watt that went into pushing that bike around the trail came from the rider and nowhere else. This means those amazing new bikes are still human powered machines, i.e. they are bicycles, not motorized bikes/mopeds/motorcycles or whatever people want to call them.
40 ain't 60 for mere mortals :-)
I understand your point. There have been many advancements in MTB tech over there years that have allowed us to ride further and longer, but I would argue that the sum of them all wouldn’t come close to the development of adding a motor. Let’s say my choice is my current bike (2018 Patrol) or my Berretta with a motor, it’s a tough call but if we’re strictly speaking longevity of the ride the motor would win. If we’re talking the ability to ride down a Black-diamond descent, well probably not. Then again, I wouldn’t have been taking my Beretta over to the North Shore if that was my goal, we’re talking two different disciplines of biking again, similar to my discussion with @hmstuna.
To ol’ Chuck’s point, I can empathize, my dad is near the same age as you guys (63) and I’d love for him to get be able to keep up with me and perhaps an e-bike might be the solution. I certainly agree that if an e-bike can allow someone to still enjoy the sport into their golden years then hell yeah that’s a good thing! When I see someone with grey-hair ripping down a trail (regardless of what they’re riding) I think to myself “damn, get after it!” because I know that’ll be me some day. Unfortunately, the E-bike isn’t limited to just older people who still want to enjoy the sport; and as more people get their hands on these things the more common they become on the trails, the drawbacks of which have already been discussed here.
Now, I should probably clear the air, some of my posts here were knee-jerk reactions and uncalled for, but these concerns are shared amongst the majority of people I ride with. This is why this is such a heated topic, people are already seeing the implications of the E-bikes. Our governments and municipalities need to spend some time thinking about the importance of the E-bike argument especially as their prolificacy increases.
We’ll see what shakes out, but as I mentioned before, I don’t think slapping a label on the E-bike essentially classing it the same and a traditional bike is the answer, there’s a lot more to it than that and these forums certainly show-case that.
But still, you'd do well to put that handwringing in check. The crescendo of EMTB hate was already reached two years ago. The claims that hoards of out-of-shape, inexperienced, uncivilized and unwashed hoi polloi were going to inundate the trails, leaving them rutted and blown out disasters, and resulting in all bikes being banned. Not one single instance of the later, and not one actual study of any sort showing the former. In fact, some minor studies showing no measurable trail impact (Lake Tahoe area). If I started seeing either of those actually, empirically happening, I'd be far more cautious about them. Really, that's why I love to link to that '85 skiers vs snowboarder video. Same claims: dangerous, destroy the trails, uncivilized, etc. Bunch of hysterical ninnies that will be made fun of on there internet long after they're dead. You don't want to be one of those, do you? A walking anachronism?
And let's please put this to bed: a modern enduro or all mountain rig does far more damage to trails than and old school rigid or even front suspension. Heavier & faster, by a large margin. Weight and speed are the two gorillas when it comes to trail wear. And a modern rig just lets you get in way more miles than those horrible old school rigs. So now you add the distance travelled issue. Oh wait, because it's easier to get to the top on a modern rig, and way more fun on the downs, a ton more new people have gotten them and now crowd the trails. See how those three arguments are being claimed against E-bikes? It's really much ado about so far nothing empirically proven.
Will there be asshats who hack their rigs to go faster? Yup. Will they brick their batteries in short order and then learn a hard lesson? Yup. Will there be asshats riding EMTBs that are just asshats in myriad ways? Yup. If I had a nickle, or IPO share of Tesla, for every asshat on a regular rig I've encountered over my years, would I be Elon's sugardaddy? Yup.
OK, I'm exhausted now. Need to save energy to do my usual Alp Du Zwift winter routine so I'm not an anchor for my west coast buddies in the spring. Successfully vaccinated, of course.
I planning on getting the ultra cheap 70+ ski pass when I get there and will be on bikes till I can't. e will be what keeps me going and makes me a better, fitter rider as I age. Hopefully not the old due that suffers a heart attack on one climb too many.
Yes, plenty of CAT 1 old guy super heroes out there...I'm just not one of them. And most super fit old guys were never on a UCI leader board - they work at it and have my respect though. They should just chill a bit and have a plate of Perspective a la Ratatouille
Hey, If your dad can ride and can handle the trails you ride, get him one. It's a game changer.
I was shuttling the "secret" famous DH run in Laguna Beach two weekends ago on the DH bike...so much fun. The GoPro footage of that run like any POV footage does not show how steep the two lower section drops sections are. We shuttle three well known runs down here. e won't do as there is no up line. Getting a DH bike 4 years ago was another revelation. Big smiles and learned how much fitness is involved with riding DH. More respect for the DH guys.
We are very lucky to have so many options within the cycling community. e is here though. For me e is a huge positive.
PS I'm still on Skis...the bams are on Boards lol...that's quite a funny video.
PPS yes, like all things out there...it's people that make the difference. And there are always more good than bad!