Pinkbike Awards: Innovation of the Year Nominees

Dec 5, 2014
by Mike Levy  


An innovation is most often defined as being a new method, idea or product that offers some sort of advantage over whatever came before it. That explanation can certainly be applied to the nominees this year, with all five putting forward a compelling argument that they either allow us to go faster or further, not to mention with less effort, than ever before. From being able to run less tire pressure without drawbacks when it comes to reliability, the ability to alter a bike's geometry while on the move without having to rely on a proprietary shock, to smarter shifting that can be programmed to think for you, it's clear that 2014 was a big year when it comes to technology that promises to actually make a difference. All we need to do now is decide which of the five products below is worthy of being labelled the best Innovation of the Year.

MTB Awards



Schwalbe Procore

Reliable tubeless tire setups are only now becoming the norm in most scenes, but the next step in tire and rim technology is already apparent: Schwalbe's dual chamber Procore system that, somewhat ironically, reintroduces a tube into the equation. It consists of a small volume, high-pressure tube (55 - 85 PSI) with a bead attached that's installed inside of a large volume tubeless tire pumped to between just 10 and 20 PSI. The special tube helps to hold the tire onto the rim, so the chances of pulling a bead off are close to zero, and it also protects the tire from being pinched from sharp, hard impacts. Insane traction is likely the first thing that comes to mind, but there's another, less obvious reason that Procore could be the next big thing: better suspension performance. Jo Klieber, Syntace founder and the man who kicked off the development of the system, explained to us that when he added the highly pressurized tube inside the tire, the spring rate of the tire would ramp up faster when the two began to compress in unison and thus would activate the suspension in a more seamless and gradual manner. If successful, the dual chamber system could allow the rider to use lower pressures and at the same time force the suspension and tire to react as a single unit to small bumps.




Canyon's Shapeshifter Technology

Enduro racing may be the butt of a lot of jokes lately, but it's also going to be the reason that trail and all-mountain bikes that we'll all be riding in a few years will be so awesome. An EWS racer's needs to be aboard a machine that crushes the downhills but can then also be ridden back up with minimal effort should make for some pretty interesting bikes as things develop further, and Canyon's Shapeshifter technology is one of the more interesting developments in this regard. It uses a supplementary air actuator, hidden mostly out of view behind the rocker arm, that actually changes the location of the upper shock mount in order to alter the leverage. The upper mount moves by just 15mm, which doesn't sound like much, but it takes the Strive CF from 160mm to 130mm of travel, as well as raising the bottom bracket by 19mm and steepening the angles by 1.5 degrees. Canyon says that Shapeshifter adds a total of 200 grams to the bike, and that their team has been using the system throughout the 2014 EWS season. The design allows nearly any shock to be used due to the Shapeshifter system being entirely separate from it, meaning that you're not locked into using a proprietary damper, which is the downside to other convertible systems on the market.





Specialized's New Demo

Specialized didn't just go back to the drawing board for their new Demo, they did so while also combing both existing and fresh concepts to come up with a bike that's an improvement on its predecessor on all fronts when it comes to going fast. The move to larger wheels was an obvious one, but their investment in carbon construction saw them nearly forego aluminum altogether, with it showing up only in a few vital locations on the frame where bearings are pressed into it. Even the higher end Demo's rocker link is carbon - it's a mostly hollow piece with internal carbon ribs that are strategically placed to increase both strength and rigidity. The bike's suspension, while looking quite different from the previous Demo, does actually function in a very similar manner, although it's been moved down so low on the bike that the main pivot now rotates concentrically around the bottom bracket. It's fair to say that the new Demo is probably one of the most exciting new downhill bikes of recent times.





Shimano Di2

Di2 isn't likely to make cable operated drivetrains obsolete anytime in the next decade. It's also not going to become self-aware and try to kill you or anyone else. It is going to cost more than many complete, dirt worthy mountain bikes, though, but no one is forcing you to purchase it (unless it does become self-aware and decides to do exactly that). However, what it is going to do is push both shifting technology and system integration towards new levels of awesomeness. The Di2 derailleurs know exactly where each cog and chain ring are, and they can actually communicate with each other to compensate for cross-gearing, not to mention the fact that you can select a synchronized mode so it will make sequential shifts, operating both the front and the rear derailleurs, by pushing only one button on the right-side shift module. In recovery mode, Di2 can readjust itself and resume normal shifting after a crash or impact has compromised its original settings - let's see your mechanical system do that. In the future, we expect a battery that's not only connected to the Di2 drivetrain, but also to your electronically controlled suspension, and even a GPS system. Many riders will hate on it - we're scared of batteries, aren't we? - and it's not about to replace traditional systems, but it is going to lead to some very exciting times.





Yeti's Switch Infinity Suspension

Yeti's Switch Infinity design employs a bearing carrier that moves vertically on two Kashima coated tubes from FOX, with the setup controlling the bike's wheel path: initially, as the bike goes through its travel, the carrier moves upwards, giving it a rearward axle path for improved pedalling and small bump absorption. As the rear wheel goes deeper into its travel the mechanism moves downwards, reducing the amount of chain tension for better big hit performance. Yeti's vice president, Steve Hoogendoorn, explained the difference: ''With the older eccentric we essentially have a really, really short link – something that's less than 15mm, whereas the mechanical analogy for the rail is the exact opposite. Instead of creating a short link, we're creating what's essentially a link that's an infinite length long. We're able to tune wheel path and anti-squat extremely precisely and accurately, which we couldn't do as easily with the Switch.'' It's also claimed to be 100 grams lighter than the original Switch design, and can run smoothly when submerged in quicksand for a decade. Okay, that's an exaggeration, but some impressive testing details from Yeti have us believing that isn't too far from being the case.





Stay tuned for more PB MTB Awards nominees all month.

Posted In:
Industry News



218 Comments

  • 143 4
 How can it not be procore? with enough time and work, it could put a complete end to punctures.
  • 16 1
 yeh gotta agree with you on that. the others are innovation still but procore has huge potential to push an area of little recent innovation forward
  • 4 0
 Get in early, I expect these will sell out very quickly when released. (anyone know when?)
  • 13 2
 Have you seen the price? €180 for a pair of tubes, no tyres. It is gonna be sponsored riders and Scrooge McDuck only for a while: www.schwalbe.com/en/schwalbe-procore.html
  • 25 2
 Uncle Stan, he no like procore...
  • 44 7
 Why is procore innovative? The technology has been out for years on both motorcycles and atv
  • 7 7
 yeah nico vuilloz rode it back in the 1900s-2000s
  • 17 2
 And why does it cost $180?!? For what? A blue inner tube and a valve?
  • 44 1
 1900s? Like even during the Great Depression? Sorry, couldn't resist.
  • 4 0
 nah sorry haha i mean more late 1990 to 2000
  • 8 1
 You get a hole in the tire, you have a puncture. And, it will need to be fixed. A small improvement, but not entirely fail safe.
  • 6 0
 To be fair, that's the cost for everything to setup 2 wheels, including the two tubes per wheel, fancy valves, rim tape, sealant, and tools.. Yea, $220 USD is hard to swallow. Totally unreasonable? For me, yes. But I'm sure it will sell well.
  • 7 1
 When Stan's strips came out, they cost $60 - $70 a pair. Adjusted for inflation(Punny!) & the added complexity of Procore, the price is expensive, but not outlandish for a new product. I expect we'll see knock-offs or this system for less than $100 before too long.
  • 2 1
 I'm buying it ASAP. Gonna ditch the supergravity casing tires and go to single ply with the procore system. Looking forward to shedding some serious weight off my bike and testing that super grip!
  • 8 4
 Not to mention ghetto or "Frocore" rigs. You can't tell me you guys haven't thought about buying a crazy light road tire (or maybe even better a skinny tube for a 24" stretched over a 26" wheel) and placing it inside a tubeless tire to mimick this effect. You'd only have to drill a second hole in your rim on the opposite side of your rim and place a somewhat flat but strong spacer between your tubeless presta valve and the tube to allow the air to go around the road tire or tube. I'm not saying that procore won't outperform the "Frocore" setup but it'll be fun to find out what those unwilling to spend actual money will come up with. It's like pirating movies without the FBI and federal govt getting involved!
  • 2 1
 Oh definitely ^^^. It'd just be really tough to deal with the outer tube's valve without screwing things up.

Edit: Didn't realize we were talking about tubeless outside, tubed inner. I thought it was tubed outer tubed inner.
  • 5 2
 Theres got to be a reason why it didnt comercially succeed back in the 90s for mtb specifically.
  • 5 5
 ^^^ No shit.
  • 6 3
 @Warburrito The procore system uses a small road tire (the blue part you see in the image) with a tube within a tubeless mountainbike tire. A 24" tube would stretch when inflated thus the only alternative would be to use a modified tubular road tire within a mountainbike tire.
Other procore-like systems:
www.deaneasy.it/en/news/7-deaneasy-test-by-365mountainbike.html
forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/ghetto-home-made-procore-dual-chamber-diy-928600.html
  • 4 1
 DH racers in the 90's use to do this. Nothing new.
  • 3 1
 @WayneParsons Nothing new? I disagree, back in the 90s "le systeme" was available to pros only and it wasn't so user friendly. That alone makes the procore new.
  • 4 1
 That deaneasy version looks pretty cool. Can we have a review in English please Pinkbike?
  • 7 1
 I wouldn't call Procore innovative. Moto's have had it for years now it was only a matter of time before it came to mtb. Procore gets "best trickle-down tech" award.
  • 3 1
 ^^^This, motos have used the exact same technology for tubeless for years. Procore just adapted it to MTB
  • 3 1
 OK, a product brought to market is "new", but the idea and the use of similar set ups have been around a very long time.
  • 2 0
 I just hope that Procore comes down from its $200 price tag. If the price is reasonable I'm all over it.
  • 3 2
 The sad thing is the moto one made by Tubliss is only $99 and most certainly has more material in it. Theoretically Procore should cost this much or less.
  • 3 0
 I think Schwalbe is dealing in much more of a niche market, though. But I don't know--if I can quit using sealant forever Procore may be worth it even at the higher price.
  • 1 8
flag WayneParsons (Dec 5, 2014 at 11:42) (Below Threshold)
 Look at how much Schwalbe charges for mediocre tires. That should be an indication that they aren't going to come out with affordable product.
  • 6 1
 Ridonkulus, your idea of production and economics is incredibly idealistic, unrealistic, and mostly irrelevant.
  • 3 1
 @WayneParsons true, Hans Dampf side knobs tear off in a month.

@DrPete I view Procore is a cheaper alternative, with compromises, to wider rims which accomplish the same thing with less weight. And you should still use sealand even with procore, it won't stop small punctures in any way
  • 1 0
 " ^^^This, motos have used the exact same technology for tubeless for years. Procore just adapted it to MTB"

For that matter, how long have bead lock wheels existed? as these are all ways to make a beadlock setup that works without split rims, & provides pinch flat protection that isn't needed in a 4X4 tire.
  • 3 0
 I was one of the first (if not the first) to use the moto version in Canada, according to the Nuetec dude. While it worked, it was great, but I actually got more flats with it than without. Moto tires get a lot of holes in the tires, whether its from punctures, or from knobs ripping off. I found it was simply better to run a foam mousse up front and an extra hd tube in the back.

If mtb'ers really want flat protection, a development of a super light mousse would be the answer. THAT would get me interested.
  • 6 0
 Mousse like chocolate mousse?
  • 2 0
 I wish!!
  • 2 1
 Procore is just like an internal beadlock. This tech has been around forever
  • 2 0
 Can't even throw out the sealant? Bummer. Just have to wait for a sale to give it a try, I guess.
  • 3 1
 You can run the Procore system without sealant, all you have to do is run a UST tire!
  • 1 0
 I love the Ghetto Procore link from MTBR. Thanks for sharing!

forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/ghetto-home-made-procore-dual-chamber-diy-928600.html
  • 46 3
 Procore promises to bring the biggest difference to riders (if it's as good as they say it is).
I can't see what's exciting about the Demo at all.
  • 30 2
 I also don't really see anything innovative with the demo. The asymetric frame? Not new, just pushed a notch further. BB as main pivot? Not new neither.
Definitly behind Procore for the win, Canyon and Yeti as second. Di2 is not new, it's new to MTB only.
  • 15 3
 How the demo got on the list I have no idea , they have been using the horst link for decades now , the one sided frame has little to do with innovation , more gimicky ( who really needs to swap springs so quickly ? if you are racing and decide you need to swap springs 30 seconds before a run that's down to your bad planning ) , and BB rotating main pivots died with V brakes..


Not that I don't think it looks amazing and would love to own one of course Smile
  • 11 1
 It comes down to a lack of understanding between what innovation and progression actually mean. The new demo is progression for sure and I’ve got no doubt it’s a nice bike, but it's not innovative.
  • 6 6
 Wait a minute "Innovate or die"??????

Hopefully they die then!!!
  • 13 0
 i swear to god, it better not be the new carbon demo.
  • 7 4
 There is nothing progressive about the new Demo. If anything it is a regressive design copy.. It's not an actual improvement, It won't last, and the people who buy it will feel stupid after they completely change the design again in a year or two.

They may have slightly lower the center of gravity by re-innovating the too-low concentric bb pivot, but Specialized compromised virtually every other aspect of suspension performance to accomplish that.

At least they probably won't have to worry about any other company copying this horrific abortion of a suspension design. Although now that Specialized is copying their pivot, Rotec is trying to rise from the dead again like a zombie from the past;

www.mtb-mag.com/en/interbike-rotec-prototype
  • 2 1
 as per usual, Protour giving out wrong information. linkagedesign.blogspot.com.ar/2014/08/specialized-demo-2015.html . Kinematics of the new and old frame are almost identical. Lower weight and cg makes it a much better bike.
  • 1 0
 the yeti, canyon, and demo are all priced so highly, its not even an innovation that could be experienced by any customer, the pro core system is cost effective enough to be used by any rider, if they pick the demo, im going to start a riot.
  • 1 0
 @EnduroManiac no, Di2 is not new in the sense that it is an electronically shifting shimano drivetrain. However, what is new is the fact that the little brain in there somewhere completely eliminates all chain tension problems with 2x/3x systems by knowing exactly where you are in your range and adapting to that. It also reduces shifting from one derailleur at a time to shifting the entire system.

What is ironic about this amazing technology is that Shimano introduced it right when front derailleurs have almost totally disappeared on mountian bikes. If they released this 3 years ago, it would have had incredible selling potential, but because chainring and derailleur technology has brought 1x into the MTB mainstream forever since the release of the original Dura-Ace Di2, all the new XTR system has is exactly what the 2010 Dura-Ace promised: crisper shifting quality.
  • 7 0
 c'mon we all know why the demo made this list.
  • 36 2
 How many World Cup / World Champs dreams have been dashed by punctures....

If Procore eliminates this its not even a fair contest
  • 4 0
 Does the high pressure inner tube NEVER EVER pinch flat itself? They say the tire doesn't, but the special tube? The freedom to rock through the hard lines would be awesome if you knew you'd never flat. Hope it's true!
  • 2 2
 It pinch flats as often as you would running your tyres at that higher pressure so if you hit something hard enough and square enough that you would pinch flat a tyre at...what is it like 80psi? then you will still pinch flat.
  • 2 0
 You won't pinch the inner core, but you will still flat the tire itself. Although it will be difficult to do so, it does happen.
  • 2 0
 The procore system looks like it's pretty well situated between the rim walls and does not extend very far above, especially if it were installed in a very wide rim. So I would imagine it would be difficult to get the system to fold completely over the top of the rim wall and pinch flat.

I'm also most impressed by procore as an innovation out of this group, but still take a few issues with it for the everyday trail riding. It's a bunch of added weight that still runs the risk of punctures from thorns and sharp rocks that sealant remedies. So how do you solve this? Double redundancy? Procore, tubeless tires, and sealant? I think for the everyday rider aka not in dh racing situations, light and wide rims and tubeless tires with sealant is pretty f'ing reliable without giving up much anything in terms of performance.
  • 8 0
 Did you see how many punctures there were in this years DH WC? Too bloody many, thats how many.
  • 1 2
 The real usefulness of the procore system I see is in dh/xc racing only. For recreational riding I don't see it being that useful other than for people who don't bring tubes on a ride.
  • 5 1
 A flat is a pain on a recreational ride too. I'd rather spend my riding time riding than fighting a tubeless tire/rim combo in the woods.
  • 3 0
 You'll still have to change the flat though. There is no escaping that. Sure you might be able to ride out on it, but it won't be fun (or fast).
  • 3 0
 I think that in its current iteration, this system will provide the most benefit to DH racers and freeriders since it would allow the rider to finish their run even if they flatted the outer tire. With so much at stake in one run, least amount of penalty for a little extra weight, and most to gain from having an increase in available traction it seems perfect for these disciplines.

For a rider covering tens of miles at a time there is a lot more to consider when it comes to the benefits and drawbacks of a system like this in its current form. Mostly from the primary tire still being susceptible to punctures from thorns/glass/wood/rock etc... and looking rather time consuming to perform a trail side flat tire repair. How do you repair a flat to the outer tire when out on a trail ride??? Remove the procore system and insert a regular tube I guess or inject a sealant to plug the puncture. You've already introduced a lot of weight over a conventional tubeless setup that to add sealant to the system seems excessively heavy, although extremely robust. I dunno. Just trying to weigh the pros and cons for for someone just out trail riding. Maybe the additional weight of this system+sealant wont mean so much if the ride quality really improves That much and makes flats virtually nonexistent.
  • 1 0
 I did an enduro race this year in which 2 minutes into the first stage I double punctured through the tires. Nothing that procore would have helped. There were also about 6-7 other racers in that same spot fixing flats. Procore will be good for pinch flats and not much else. Not to mention it is really hard to pinch flat a tire.
  • 24 2
 Yeti and Canyon is a manufacturer specific idea, as is the Demo. Di2 XTR is a step forward in gearing (but still effectively the same with levers, chain etc) but is bloody expensive.
ProCore is one development that can be used, at a reasonable cost, by anyone.
  • 3 1
 I second that. As cool as frame innovation is, there are many people who won't be able to afford that until it trickles down in years to come. Procore can be utilized far more readily by the masses, so it's got my vote. Di2 is the runner up IMO.
  • 4 3
 Why is Di2 a step made directly FORWARD, not SIDEWARD and then history will prove if it was so forward? It's still plagued with issues and I have friends working in 3 different stores reporting many clients having problems with (self) adjustment thus shifting precision. I also have world class roadie in my family who's team chose to ride regular Dura Ace in 2015...
  • 3 0
 if they have that many issues then yea that's a problem. I have heard good things about the road set...
  • 5 0
 Shapeshifter looks good on paper. As for the yeti, I wanted the SB66 so bad but seeing how they didn't keep the excentric bearing for long, I'm wondering how long this gimmick will last and if it's going to be as troublesome as its predecessor. Knowing I'd probably manage to pilot a nuclear submarine before I get the chance to put a leg over a SB, I haven't cared much about it. I just wish them they don't end up in the bike innovation purgatory like kona's magic link.
  • 2 0
 Is shapeshifter all that much different from magic link? Essentially the same idea is it not?
  • 1 0
 My bad. I read and got it. But.... Still.... Bionicon I think they are called? Or were. They did similar things.
  • 22 2
 so we have:
- Something that prevent flat tires and improve traction
- A device that change geometry, travel, and stiffness of the rear suspension, just by pressing on a lever.
- a bike that has nothing new except bling bling yellow shock, plastic everywhere, and still an archaic rear mech.
- An archaic rear mech with electronic to make it looks modern.
- A swich infinity which is an old switch that don't infringe any patent.

The three last things are'nt innovation compared to the first two, IMO.
  • 18 2
 New Demo=Why pinkbike, why..
  • 3 11
flag WayneParsons (Dec 5, 2014 at 7:29) (Below Threshold)
 Di2 is the most innovative product on that list. Followed closely by the Canyon. In my humble opinion.
  • 5 0
 The canyon thing sounds a lot like.something kona did quite a while ago.
  • 1 2
 Di2 is just too expensive and ooooooo it illiminates cables... so??
  • 3 3
 DI2 is a waste of money, time, energy. Unless you don't have thumbs, are disabled, etc the only place it should be is on a fun Electric bike.... It's a great idea, but part of the fun of bicycles for me is the lack of electric items and electricity cords, etc.
  • 2 0
 Yea but look at the options on the list. Comparatively speaking, an electronic shifting system is pretty advanced and unique.
  • 2 1
 If you are going electro I think single on the back and servo powered tranny on the front make more sense. The cogs could be a flat stack with only the one you need coming out. Since it is wireless the whole mess would mount on the crank. No cables, derailleurs, no problem. Give me the award pb. I just inovated the best.
  • 2 1
 ... And useless. Cables works great for the job, and don't need any battery. Even Acros hydraulic drivetrain is more relevant than Di2.
  • 1 2
 If I understand correctly the Canyon concept when going downhill : put your ass on the back, push a button to change the geometry (and pray you set your body at the right place), push another button to set your CTD in descent mode, then don't forget to push the button for the seat post... Ohhh s.... I have already to come back to uphill mode ! Put your ass...
What about usable innovation ?
When I read all comments, sounds like no one reinvented the wheel. Astonishing.
Innovation is not only about reinventing the wheel, it's maybe just to take an old idea and to engineer it better for usability and performance.
  • 16 3
 The use of all carbon on the demo hardly seems innovative at this point for specialized. Interesting new design but innovative? Watcha talkin bout, Willis?
  • 5 12
flag KJP1230 (Dec 5, 2014 at 8:07) (Below Threshold)
 It literally looks like no other bike in the history of DH mountain bikes, using manufacturing processes that were unavailable and/or cost prohibitive just a few years ago. Name a single company that has made such a dramatic change from one generation of bike to the next? Can you name one bike that looks anything like the new Demo?
  • 7 4
 What a bunch of Special-lies.

The first carbon V10 was much more "dramatic", and was actually an improved design, unlike the new Demo.
  • 4 3
 @Protour Have you ridden the new Specialized Demo? Has the Specialized Demo received positive reviews in preliminary testing? Can you think of any pro's who have put up great results on the new bike (Like Aaron Gwin within 1.3 seconds at Maribel?)

I get it. You hate Specialized. It wouldn't matter if Gwin won 7 races next year on the new frame, or if every reviewer said the new bike was the best in history - you would never buy a Specialized.

That's kinda sad.
  • 3 0
 I think the point is that it's not that much different than other manufacturers' new carbon rigs. Specialized makes great bikes but I would also hesitate to call the Demo a major innovation. There's nothing truly revolutionary about it, though it does look cool and reportedly rides great.
  • 2 3
 I respect your rights to disagree with a staff of people who literally spend their entire lives riding, testing, analyzing and writing about an entire industry - including attending every trade show or festival dedicated to new products.

Ever seen a DH bike with a bottom bracket concentric pivot? Ever seen a DH bike made of all carbon fiber, with a one sided seat stay?

In-no-vate (verb) - make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products.

This is a change in something established (the Specialized Demo dates as one of the first modern DH bikes), that introduces new carbon manufacturing techniques to their line up, using a suspension idea that is not currently being used by an DH bike and only used in one other, older bike model from obscurity. By any one of the literal definitions of the word "innovate" the Specialized Demo is innovative and original in its design. Name one other bike similar to it, or another bike model to ever undergo such a dramatic 1 year transformation.
  • 2 1
 The thing is that every bike manufacturer is now building bikes out of carbon. The suspension design is essentially nothing new, a concentric bb pivot is no different in principle than a pivot in any other location, as long as the rear axle isnt mounted to the chainstay. The point bring made here, I think, is that while the new demo is a departure from the old, it is not doing anything totally new. As a matter of fact, the linkage is almost as simple as is possible without using a single pivot (not saying there's anything remotely wrong with that. There is currently nothing like procore in the MTB world. There are currently no frames available with on the fly travel and geometry adjustment. There are currently no frames with a wheel path manipulated by a sliding lower pivot. There are no electronic self adjusting derailluers on the market. All of these things are firsts, the demo is new, its cool, but it isnt breaking any new ground.
  • 2 1
 The bike is cool. I do like the way it looks. It's PB's list. Next.
  • 3 1
 Wow, KJP. People have their opinions and they're allowed to disagree with you. It's OK, really. But since you asked for one bike, SC V10.
  • 1 2
 @DrPete I asked for a bike that was a radical departure from one generation to the next. The SC V10 has never broken radically from its basic layout. Aside from an evolution of geometry to modern spec, a 2009 aluminum V10 is the same bike as the 2014 full carbon V10. Seriously - google images.

What everyone is missing here is NOT that the bike is carbon fiber - that's not why its being listed as innovative, and this speaks to the original posters misguided complaint. It is that the fundamental design is unlike any other bike that has ever existed in full suspension. The bike has a bottom bracket concentric, horst link suspension, and a monocoque, 1 sided seat stay frame. No bike in history has been designed in this way, AND it is a radical departure in terms of look and operation from the previous platform. Hence: innovative.
  • 2 0
 The reason for the huge change is that specialised has been lagging behind for years. Their bike hardly changed between 2003-2013
  • 1 0
 The Pivot Phoenix 27.5 is all carbon and has some pretty fancy engineering.
  • 1 0
 So do most bikes available nowadays.
  • 7 0
 Pro core for sure. In a whole other league than the others. Interesting fact with the suspension factor as I felt the need to adjust the shock settings on my bike when I converted to tubeless
  • 13 2
 NEW DEMO!?!?!?!?! WTF
  • 6 0
 One thing's for sure. When I started riding in the early 90s, if you told me that one day I'd be riding a carbon fiber bike with 160mm travel front and rear with a fully adjustable air/oil suspension, a hydraulic dropper post, a 1x11 drivetrain that never drops the chain or chainsucks and shifts smoothly even when gunked up, and true one-finger hydraulic discs with excellent modulation, and nearly-indestructible carbon wheels, and have that whole thing weigh 27 pounds, I'd have laughed. Of course, I'd probably have laughed if you told me what that setup costs too, but that's a different story.
We've gotten here because of small incremental improvements, so I guess we shouldn't poo-poo too many small incremental improvements, spin-offs from MX, etc.


Let the innovations continue and we will do our part to bitch about them. Smile
  • 6 1
 How much did Specialized give Pinkbike to include the Demo, or did they sue them for using the word "enduro" in the articles.
  • 6 2
 The new Demo? You have to be kidding me. Especially hearing from their very own WC riders that wanted to ride the old bike because it was better. Corporate BS
  • 1 0
 How could have they said it was better, when pretty much from scratch the new frame was designed with the same suspension characteristics. Apparently they wanted to keep it that way, because it worked well for them. Not better nor worse. They wanted the same characteristics and they made it that way. I agree it's not super innovative. I definitely agree it stands nowhere near Procore on the innovation field. But your calling on Corporate BS is sort of out of place.
  • 2 0
 Canyon with there upside down magic link that has to be activated manually instead of it doing it by itself like on a kona. Hardly original.
The switch stuff is original but doesn't massively change the axle path so not sold on that yet but il try it if I can.
Procore is useless unless you race Dh and have lots of money. As it's to heavy and just not needed for normal riding.
Elec gears not needed and not new.
And the spec demo frame is a aesthetic thing for me like a single sided swing arm on a motorbike. (I like it alot) but nothing relavant
Innovation is sort of lacking this year I'd say
  • 2 0
 Although the mountain version of Di2 is certainly cool...Electronic shifting has been around for a while. It's an iteration, not an innovation. I'd argue that the side-pull front derailers are a bigger step than mtb electronic shifting. Because lots of us still like having 2 rings, and any step to improve the performance of the FD is a good thing.
  • 4 2
 It's painfully obvious which of you haven't ridden Di2. Di2 deserves the win 100%, the people talking shit haven't used it; but this is the kind of ignorant dribble I have unfortunately come to expect from Pinkbike commences. Think they know better than industry leaders.
  • 1 0
 100% this. The last time I had more than a 1x chainset was back in 1998 when I bought my first chainguide. I am now in the process of upgrading to a Di2 3x11 chainset because it just works! Pinkbike kids are just afraid of change it seems haha
  • 1 0
 It's pretty incredible--I used it on a road bike. But the price needs to come down. Especially with quality mechanical 1x11 drivetrains out there, the price needs to get more competitive.
  • 3 1
 I think the new demo looks sick and it is a much different bike then the previews models "maybe not on a track, but yes by looking" so many neg comments about specialized, about this and that... but in fact is one of the best bikes out there.. when most of you have failure frames or changing bearing's every season or linkages ill be riding my demo all season long with out problems Big Grin that's what makes a great brand..i have tried some other brands and still not found a more fun bike to ride and faster Smile

cheers and now you can give me neg props Wink
  • 2 1
 Agreed. I've owned a few bikes from a few companies. As a skier I love to support smaller brands (and the performance of one ski company to the next is hardly worth mentioning in most cases). But when it comes to complex, manufactured, suspension platforms - the big houses have a tendency to be as good or better than the smaller brands.

If you can get over the fact that you are buying from one of the larger bike companies on the planet, you realize you are buying a world class frame with no obvious drawbacks or quirks.
  • 1 2
 You guys sound like fan boys to me. I have never owned a specialised but I have ridden plenty and I know a lot of long term owners. Their bikes always felt just average to me and they are no more reliable than your average. I even own a 2010 session thats never needed anything done. My mates specialised on the other hand has a snapped frame and had every component replaced So no argument there. The Horst link design is older than the company, there are so many superior designs now. Also the advantage of having a concentric pivot is no chain growth which is ruined by also having Horst link. You can see from the concept drawings that it was designed by an artist not an engineer. The poor engineers just had to take a drawing and make it work as a bike and then the marketing folk had to make up a bunch of bullshit to why it is a superior design. I mean you don't honestly believe that the single seat stay was for access. It was in the artists drawing and so the marketing team had to find some reason for it. It's reverse engineering. If you want a bike that has been engineered properly then look no further than the devinci Wilson.
  • 2 1
 is not about been "fan boy" its the true kid... but my comment was for you cuz you do ride a session right? ya those bikes love to snap the "chain stays a lot " Wink I take my 2011 demo to whistler more then once a year and never had to change bearings or anything.. last year I took my Undead just for 4 days and you know what? in the end of the 4 day i had my frame crack and my linkage all screw up Big Grin then i went back to demo and now i have 2 demos Smile show me the pic's of your buddy's snapped demos or stfu Wink the linkage maybe be old and this and that but it does the job done better then some.. you just don't know how to ride a demo Big Grin haters always going to hate..
  • 2 1
 @Mini-Pinner antecdotal evidence of "one of your buddies" breaking a frame doesn't mean much.

Also - every single major publication in history disagrees with your feeling that Specialized is "average" as a bike company. I am not even asking that you trust reviewers if you don't want to. But I can say that I am going to trust their opinions WAY more than anyone on Pinkbike who just loves to hate on any particular company.

Your buddy must be a shit rider or the worst luck ever. I had a Demo and a 2009 Enduro - and I never had to do any major repairs to either bike or the components.
  • 1 1
 My argument is not that specialised are unreliable but that no bike is so much more reliable than all others that it is superior. Specialised demos seem to be fairly reliable for the most part but they don't have a lot else going for them. If you were going to ride at whistler all the time a demo would be fine but anywhere more rough and steep and you'll find they will not per from as well as many other bikes. The new demo is an improvement but just brings it self into line with some other brands. It certainly does not surpass them in any way.
  • 1 1
 hahaha that's funny..... the demo is maybe one of the few bikes can take the most rough and steep track you can get with out a problem...you should know the demo is been always the king of the extreme.. Wink but also is a better bike for extreme free ride then for dh racing has everyone knows.. Big Grin but the new demo looks more a racing machine but who knows .. and btw there's no bike park rougher then whistler Smile you should go there some time Wink
  • 1 1
 Not all of us ride bike parks. Also king of extreme? Since when? In 2003 maybe. YT is king of extreme at the moment. Also very few dh bikes can't handle extreme riding. I can only think of 3 more recent dh bikes which could be considered to be unfit for extreme terrain. The old gt furys. The intense 951 and the older sessions. Plenty of bikes are just as durable as demos.
  • 1 1
 man now you just showed me how much you know about good frames.. im not even going to argue with you anymore.. ya go take that piss of shit 951 head tube somewhere else.. the demo frame has been the strongest frame on the market for years man.. YT why? cuz they won the Rampage? does not mean nothing to me.. if you're going that way then I can say the demo is 3 best racing machine loool witch is not.. I really like YT bikes, they look great and im sure they perform has good has they look.. but none of those 3 brands is a match for the demo frame.. go google a bit and check for your self how many snapped and cracked 951's and sessions you find..im sure you will find more then you will find demo's..TY frame still kills 951 and session with no problem... what you're saying is you call a good frame or ( most strong frame) the ones you get to the bottom of the track with your bike in 2 pieces haha good luck with that buddy Wink is the same you're saying kona frames are extremely strong lol even the knew carbon ones snap clean off..what a joke! im done here.. Smile
  • 1 1
 Learn to read mate. Apart from YT The bikes I listed were bikes that aren't strong. I'm saying that the majority of downhill frames are just as strong as demos. In fact every glory has been stronger than the demo from the same year. also none of the best free riders have ridden demos since 2008 when Darren berecloth was still a contender. YT and trek are the bikes behind the 5 or so riders who are in a league of there own. They are pushing the sport so far so fast and the other riders can't keep up. I'm not saying demos are bad bikes but there are definitely better bikes.
  • 1 1
 glory hahaha you're funny..but for real its one of the best bikes out there for sure but the frame is not stronger then a demo.. just cuz they ride YT or Treks that does not mean the bike is stronger loool they ride what sponsors gives them to ride and must of them they don't even ride they're fav parts..but what youre saying is if santa cruz win the WC well its ( the best bike) or gaint or trek.. or if Kona wins Ramapage then it will be the strongest frame or maybe cuz of semenuk won with trek... now put those frames on a fatigue test and you will me surprised
  • 1 1
 Well what exactly do you mean by king of extreme then? If the most extreme riders don't ride them and the most extreme lines haven't been ridden on them then what makes them king of extreme? Nothing. I don't know where your getting your facts from but I will reiterate, there are bikes that are stronger than demos. Zerode is an example. Demos are not the best bikes in any way. They are not the best race bikes. They are not the best free ride bikes and they are not the strongest bikes. How hard is that to understand? If you don't go off evidence then you cannot say which bikes are the best and based on real world evidence demos aren't the best at anything. Not saying they aren't good, they just aren't the best.
  • 1 1
 the most extreme guys they do ride them. think about some names and you will find a few riders and demo's already won everything they have to win to Rampage to WC DH they don't need to prove nothing to you anymore man... they have been the kings for years, is the most successful brand out there.. stop trying to find a brand that matches demo frame cuz you cant find one!!! there's no frame has strong has the demo.. any other brands have more failures frames ,or snapped head tubs or chain stays or banding frames or bearings problems or linkages etc... demo is maybe not the best bike on track for making time but they have what others cant.. the strongest frame and low maintenance !! and ill ride my demo for 2 or 4 seasons has hard has I can with out a problem and im sure you wont do that on many bikes Wink besides all the bikes I rode never found one faster the my demo Big Grin haha but hey, I do feel good on demos but that doesn't mean you feel the same way . Smile
  • 1 1
 I don't know why I keep replying. You keep stating things without any evidence or actual examples. If low maintenance and strength are what you desire then the zerode is king. Zerode need the least maintenance of any bike and there hasn't been a single frame which has broken. That makes it better than Specialized by a mile for reliability. You debate like a female, with emotions instead of facts. I'm sorry but your wrong, it is a fact not an opinion.
  • 1 0
 what facts man?? you cant go search for your self about the broken bikes you have been describe has the best? Zerode is a very good bike ,I really like the frames but how many had broken chain stays at whistler? haha you show me some prove that those bikes have better frames then the demo cuz I know they don't for years.. the demo 8 won the record has the strongest frame in a world in 2007 and don't came with the bull shit " that was long time ago and manufacture's has improve since that" ya that's true but also specialized has improve. even a status frame or big hit is a much more strong frame then most of those brand's you said lool

just don't bother to replay please.. you just say what you hear about other's hater's Wink try to won one before you talk and not just ride one of your buddy's in parking lot..

im done here!
  • 5 1
 @Dobbs59

ditto on the Demo and electronic shifting... maybe if they put it in a gearbox id be interested
  • 9 4
 Di2? In the future I will be a proud user of analog mountain bikes.
  • 12 0
 vinyl forever...
  • 6 0
 I'd run one I have to admit. Why not?
  • 6 0
 rigid, analogue, steel with Procore
  • 6 1
 I ride to get away from electronics. It's an outdated approach I know but it works well. Still. A self programmed drone to film a solo ride...maybe...
  • 5 4
 World is seriously into electronics in sport vehicles since 1980s so getting away from them is not outdated by any means. More of a ZeitGeist actually. Want to impress me Shimano? Make brakes with ABS and cassette with traction control for climbing
  • 7 0
 So do I .. honestly, I keep my cell on silent and in my bag, I like to be in the woods and I'm out there to "get away" as well. But Di2 on an XC bike with a dual ring up front? I'd ride it. Auto trimming and flawless shifting 100% of the time?
  • 4 2
 I do assume the abs was a joke.... I def don't want my bike telling me what to do.. If I want to lock it up I'm locking it up. Di2 is quite the opposite, it's electronics helping me tell the bike exactly what to do. @WAKIdesigns
  • 4 0
 I like cassette tapes. And New Order
  • 2 1
 I'm old enough to remember buying and using cassettes .. they sucked. Vinyl on the other hand is where it is at.
  • 3 1
 @Darkstar63 - with ABS I meant it. If you could have such system for the front brake it would be a game changer for most people. Your front wheel would never slip under braking. It saves many lives and injuries in motorcycle world. By percentage probably more than in cars. Traction control would revolutionize E-bikes. But Di2 is a costly solution to a barely existing problem. Pimp factor is next to zero. It is hard to go further with the law of diminishing returns.i'd prefer that Acros hydraulic shifting if I was bored with my rapidly increasing account balance, eventually I'd invest in those extremely light mods to existing derailleurs, like those on that 3.2kg German road bike
  • 1 3
 Yep, Waki I agree. Anytime my bike needs a battery to operate, I don't think it's a bike anymore. I will be sticking with Sram for near the future...
  • 2 0
 @darkstar- hell yeah on the vinyl! digital compressed recordings sound like ass.
  • 1 2
 how long is the battery life on the Di2, what happens when that shit runs out? and think about how much that crap would cost if you knocked it on a rock through a techy section and it broke.
  • 1 0
 I have to admit @WAKIdesigns makes an excellent point about ABS - it would be especially useful for mountain bike applications. The overwhelming majority of hard braking situations are the exact moments when retaining steering and control would prove useful. "Locking it up" is typically a less effective, less safe way to stop a moving vehicle, especially on surfaces that are not dry asphalt.
  • 2 1
 I ride without any electronics beyond a cell phone for the "in case shait hits the fan" scenerio.
I work all day with computers, technology, electronics, etc, etc. My bike is my way to get far away from all of that techo crap. I feel I've had a good ride once I hit an area without any cell phone coverage, I smile, take in the epic views and remember why I started riding a bike as a kid. Then shred up the trail like a demon.

haha
  • 5 0
 do you know how incredibly heavy a system would be that would prevent lock up. to have ABS on your bike you'd have to have an on-board computer monitoring your tires rotation compared to your actual speed, it'd have to also be able to adjust your brakes. thats ridiculous. maybe a long time down the road. but isn't the fun of mountain biking having the risk and reward for doing gnarly shit right. i don't want a bike that descends, shifts, and brakes for me. i want to be apart of the fun, not just a 3rd party to it.
  • 1 2
 @TFreeman the system would not be heavy at all. A brand new iPhone 6 (including huge battery, glass face, aluminum casing) weighs 172.08 grams. An ABS system would not need to do nearly all of the things you are claiming to be effective. The sensors you are talking about MIGHT weigh 10-20 grams complete, per wheel. The processor and integrated control into the brake calipers as well as electronics inside those calipers, including wiring, might bring in another 80-100 grams total. Throw in a battery to run the system and we are looking at MAYBE 140 grams. I dunno about you, but I would LOVE to have 140 grams of non-rotational weight added to my bike if it meant an ABS system that could prevent even 1 over-the-bars or serious crash at speed on a muddy or gravely surface.
  • 3 0
 Not to get into a huge debate about abs because it's never happening... mostly because it would need power and a motor , ect, ect, .... but I often lock up my brakes for tricks and bike handling situations where I would not want my bike to think it should let go briefly to maintain traction. The logic required for a mtb system would be outrageous. The ONLY time it would be welcome is a steep chute that's loose ... I guess you could grab the brake and hold till its over. I prefer to let go of it in these scenarios Wink @WAKIdesigns
  • 3 0
 Did you just honestly suggest that an abs system would weigh less than an iphone @KJP1230 ? You also forgot a motor/actuator that would have to be attached to or integrated into the master cyl.
  • 3 1
 off-road-braking-test-pro-level-off-road-racer-against-ktm-abs Interesting read @WAKIdesigns , what I take from it is the system shaved 7ft of stopping from 60mph and a very heavy machine. At lower speeds it was inches. On a mountain bike... if you had someone spend countless $$$ in r&d ... the system would never be huge advantage to a skilled rider.
  • 2 0
 And do you still use a walkman and rotary phone too?
  • 1 2
 Would MTB ABS brakes pulsate like the automotive ones do?

"What are you doing in your room dear?"

"Uuuuuhh...unpacking my new brakes."

"But you've been there for over an hour...and where did the box of Kleenex go?"

"Uuuh, don't come in. I'll be out in a minute!"
  • 1 0
 We'll probably considering that's how ABS works...
  • 1 0
 @Darkstar, considering a full system from Bosch from 2009 for a 3 disc, full sized motorcycle weighs 700 grams (installed), I am suggesting that it is likely that a system for a mountain bike would weight much, much less - yes.

I doubt that a 1st gen system would weigh less than an iPhone, but given the lower weights/forces in mountain biking and motorcycles I am certain that they could manufacture a system that would be a usable weight. Even if the system was to weigh as much as a 5 year old system for full size motorcycles, it would only be 1.53 lbs of non-rotational weight. That is less than a half full water bottle.
  • 2 0
 I still struggle to see the market for such a system. It is an interesting notion when you consider that the systems finally work well for off road motorcycles. However the complexity and cost alone make it seem unreasonable. I'd like to see one done maybe as an exercise in design but I don't see it taking off.
  • 6 0
 Wiggle a finger with XTR trails and you've got ABS, and no weight penalty.
  • 1 0
 @DARKSTAR63 I dunno - I have a feeling it will be an innovation that will come along in due time. Brakes are getting pretty damn good, and for most types of riding an ABS system might be a serious performance upgrade for hard braking while maintaining steering characteristics. Think about the advice you give a newbie mountain biker "Most crashes happen because you are using to much brake!" - an ABS system helps to address this. Imagine a system that could help stop or limit over-the-bars crashes from over-braking!

I can speak personally when I say that a lot of my spills have happened because of skidding out or going over the bars in hard braking.

Just like there was resistance to nearly every innovation (suspension, aluminum, carbon fiber, disc brakes, dropper posts, carbon wheels, etc.) it is often hard to imagine that something could be useful - but given enough time innovation keeps on coming. I bet we have useful ABS brakes within a decade.
  • 1 0
 If one turns off any prejudgment he may find intriguing interpretations of common reality when looking at a XC bike like Scott Spark equipped with electric engine. So if we set our mind to play the game of "electronics are great", we may see that if someone has no time or will to train or slowly ride a non-assisted XC racer then he may not wish to practice braking. OTB is on top of Fears of unskilled riders. Braking is a difficult, multifold, complex skill, having many subskills. This becomes a non issue if you introduce ABS. You can brake in corners without washing out. For such person who has not developped good braking technique, factors like positive, enjoyable effects (like sense of speed and acceleration) of braking in wrong places vs braking in right places in a right way are beyond his consciousness. Al he/she knows is sketchiness, he wants that gone - AbS will minimize it for him/her without putting a single minute on practice.

Complete abS (excliding battery) for mx weighs over 2lbs, so for mtb it will weigh at least a half. Traction control though should be of highest concern of anti-el-bikes lobby as it will minimize potential erosion on uphills
  • 2 0
 beginners to somewhat bypass the skills building and go in red hot and brake late? fail of the month is gonna be awesome! hehe.
  • 1 0
 Waki
now go use your car's abs on loose gravel or mud! Get back to me! I think you'll find your saab/volvo with be a couple of inches shorter.
  • 1 0
 @hardtailzero the whole purpose of ABS is that it is ideal for low friction situations, as you retain the ability to steer under slipping. It is not very often that I am using my brakes to stop myself from flying off of a cliff or slamming into a wall. To the contrary, ABS systems would limit over-the-bars falls and allow you to brake as hard as possible while maintaining the ability to effectively steer the bike in a given direction.
  • 1 0
 I have a moral issue with abs... It took me a long time to get as damn good as I am with my brakes and "traction control" , let's keep the challenge. Wink
  • 1 0
 @Darkstar63 - that is the point. I am working on myself lately and I am slowly figuring out that everyone of us has different issues of our OWN with different products and if we are about to remain serious about it (those usually are deep serious issues why you prefer to train than use electronics or carbon or whatever it is) then let's keep it for ourselves, eventually exchange opinions in limited companion. Other than that we can make cynical jokes, but let's keep them jokes and do are bes to tmake them funny Big Grin The value you see in training and practice may be completely irerelevant to someone else.
  • 1 0
 Of course some might find abs useful and it may even make riding easier for them. I would not shun those willing to use it just as I hope you would not refuse to ride with me because I want to try something I find useful. With that said, I find riding aids, including, but not limited to abs or traction control would be completely in violation of the spirit of mountain biking. Something like di2 doesn't ride your bike, it just shifts. Just like before.. you press a button and a shift occurs. It's my personal preference to ride my own bike.
  • 1 0
 Besides, as fun as these debates are... at the end of the day I don't care what people do, what they ride, honesty.. it doesn't matter. All I can speak is my own opinion and at the point bicycles have those types of systems I'm reaching for a motorcycle instead.
  • 1 0
 "Enduro racing may be the butt of a lot of jokes lately, but it's also going to be the reason that trail and all-mountain bikes that we'll all be riding in a few years will be so awesome."

Truth. A little perspective on this overused buzzword.
And Shapeshifter seems to accomplish same as Cannondale's been doing with DYADRT2 shock, albeit a bit differently. Promising.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, not sure if i like the whole ProCore idea. I've burped a tire a few times and had to finish riding a trail on less than optimal pressure and hate how the tires feel. Anything less than 23-25 psi feels really strange to me, like it's unstable. The rim moves independently from the tire, so my steering feels vague and I find it unnerving. So, I cannot even imagine how 14-20 psi feels. I need to see some real reviews before I even think about trying it.
  • 1 0
 Wider rims can help (a bit) with those low pressure knob-brapping turns that feel a bit odd with a narrower rim. The wider rim causes the tire to have less distance to roll, making lower pressures a little more precise feeling in corners.
  • 1 0
 In building up a set of Nox Composites rims (not super wide, but wide-ish) and it will be interesting to see how they ride with lower pressures. Still, seeing how much the tires in the Schwalbe video compress and flex, I would have to imagine that they feel a bit squirrely. Im looking forward to some reviews!
  • 1 0
 Surely the Spank Spike Vibrocore out innovates Procore purely by getting vibro into its naming.... If I'm to take advantage of 10-20psi downhill I'd want something innovative to pump my tyre back up for the rest of the trail.... otherwise at useable rolling psi I get no punctures, burps etc so procore is DH useful only Di2 great for the road but lipstick on the pig of multiple chainwheels, would have been interesting before 1x11 but now sadly too late
  • 1 0
 Everything up there is a new look into biking. except the demo 8 that doesn't deserve to be up there. That's just a bike that's had a make over, just like what GMC did with the Sierra or Silverado. They say it's completely re-disigned theyou just made it look better. sure specialized did improve a couple things but it isn't an innovation. The procore that has to be innovation of the year. No more pinch flats, punters will be a lot harder to do and it engages the suspension earlier. It's the winner in my books.
  • 1 0
 Sorry for the original juvenile response, but honestly KJP is so smitten with this mostly-marketing hype that it is almost amusing, Every bike makes claims about how awesome their uniques suspension or frame designs are, and how their this and that helps you conquer your fears and blow away the competition. If you want to go down that road, how about Yeti introducing Switch infinity followed quickly be keyboard cowboys trashing it. Then the following week they promptly won every stage in the EWS at Winter Park with either Richie Rude on the SB5c or Jared Graves on the SB6c. That's how you debut your new design! Did Brosnan and Gwin do better on their new bikes this year, sure. But I seriously doubt that Specialized's exciting innovations are going to influence other designs very much.

PS - How about Marco what's his name winning the Pro GRT DH in Mammoth on his Lefty Supermax Strut? Put one of those on the front end of the one-sided-seatstay Speshy!
  • 1 0
 I do not think that anything suggested is actually a game changer, more like attempts to slightly improve things that all work reasonable well in the first place..
I'm surprised that wheels did not figure higher, 27.5 and 29 though been around a while, have had a greater impact on the industry than virtually anything else, requiring frame redesigns to work around the new sizes, forks, tyres, brakes etc... even the Spesh Demo featured is designed around a 27.5... The redesign of the wheel has pushed manufacturers to consider innovations in frame design and suspension.. consider the new Mondraker Summum (and who wouldn't), surely more innovative than the Spesh ?
  • 3 3
 Why ProCore...??? I converted my Easton DH Havocs 650B to Tubless with Tubes (similar to what Stevie Smith was running in the 2013 WC Season).
The Tube cost me 10 Bucks and have^nt had a flat or lost tire pressure yet in 5.5 months riding 3-4 times a week on rough terrain..Go figure.
BTW..I was'nt even using a Maxxis UST Tire!!!!
My vote is is for Yetis Switch Infinity.
  • 3 0
 Did you read the whole blurb on procore? also it didn't flat out say this but it holds the bead on on better at lower pressures than a traditional or non traditional setup (like what you have).
  • 2 0
 Right now i am working with my team buddies on a ghetto procore solution Big Grin And we will share our invention with the world once we finish testing it
  • 15 1
 Let me guess... Tubular road tyre?
  • 1 0
 If I could up vote Waki's comment about 1000 times I would...
  • 1 2
 If I could understand Waki's comment 1 time, I would...
  • 1 0
 Roadiea are useful sometimes Big Grin
  • 3 0
 Yeah, Shapeshifter is pretty much Kona's Magiclink flipped upside down... aux shock at the top instead of the bottom.
  • 1 0
 wisecrackerltd.com this is The best innovation of 2014... Spacer and Botle opener! I know they exist since 2006 but man, Botle opener.... It's the innovation of the century. I even put one on my BMX
  • 3 1
 Procore is not new, Khs already had a rim with similar technology 10 years ago, i think it was called the eliminator.
  • 3 0
 Eliminator was made by T.H.E. Toby Henderson Enterprises
  • 2 0
 ^yup!

I'm surprised it didn't take off better. Iirc they had an article in MBA testing the wheels and they hit a curb at full speed bending the rim (substantially) and it held air.
  • 1 1
 The eliminator rim was totally different. It just had a metal ridge in the middle in an attemp to stave off pinch flats. It didnt offer the same traction benefits as ProCore tho, whish is the main advantage imo.
  • 2 0
 For those, like me, who had never heard of this: www.pinkbike.com/news/THE-Eliminator-rim.html
  • 1 1
 Huh.They describe the raised central section as pvc. In all the pics ive ever seen (other than the one on that page) it has looked like just an extension of the rim extrusion.
  • 1 0
 You think mountain regular dh tires on some rims is difficult? THE took it to another level. Still, they did sorta work. Not super light, but worked.
  • 3 0
 | Insert outrage that my favourite product has not been picked here |
  • 4 0
 Maybe next year the Milk-o-matic 4000 will make it :/
  • 3 1
 Analiz XP - Chamois cream releasing plug?
  • 2 0
 You forgot MRP's Ramp Control, as implemented in the Stage and Loop TR forks. But I'll forgive you.....eventually.
  • 2 0
 double backflip 360 is pretty innovative! www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgGGzsDl0vY
  • 2 0
 Is there a review on the Procore?
  • 3 2
 As a portly one the procore will potentially have a massive affect on my riding.
  • 2 0
 i belive i can make a procore with a mtb tubular inside the tire
  • 1 1
 And the Winner is?...
Specialized..... Judges in the field of invention will take into account all these PB constructive comments. Are they?
  • 2 0
 Canyon Shapeshifter and ProCore.
  • 1 0
 Procore for sure even tho its borrowed from Mx. When does procore become available to the public?
  • 2 1
 wait! I thought canyon is not available on american continent! Some consistency please PB!
  • 4 3
 Does that make it less innovative?
  • 1 0
 To many entitled Americans yes, haha
  • 4 0
 I think he was being sarcastic mike.
  • 3 0
 I was, yes
  • 1 1
 In terms of highest innovation, I'd say it goes to Yeti, with Canyon very close behind. It's thinking like that that makes bikes more and more versatile.
  • 2 0
 Procore all the way. Life without punctures is the stuff of dreams.
  • 1 0
 For me it's Canyon's Shapeshifter Technology because it works with standard shocks.
  • 1 0
 PB controversy again ? c'mon!
  • 4 3
 Nice Magic Link on that Canyon. Not a new idea.
  • 1 0
 Canyon's Shapeshifter Technology V.S. BIONICON System
  • 1 1
 This looks like a "who pays our bills" list rather then a correct judgement.

lol
  • 2 1
 #SWITCHINFINITY for the WIN!!!!
  • 1 0
 Procore?!
Okay. Nuff said.
  • 1 0
 Yeti all the way! they have the Midus touch!
  • 2 0
 defo procore!
  • 1 2
 any news about POY contest?
  • 1 4
 Yeah you guys at pink bike need to rethink putting the demo on that list. While you're at it, rethink all the other catagory nominations.
  • 4 2
 Haha - so you think that every single listing here does not deserve a spot? And what, may I ask, are your top 5 innovative products of 2014? Everyone needs to get off the Demo-Hating. I get it, Specialized is a big brand that must be run by satan himself for making a world-class bike in every single category of mountain biking imaginable. But seriously, I have never seen a bike company take such a leap from one generation of bike to the next. The demo has features that are unlike any bike on the market, looks unlike any bike on the market, and uses carbon layup technology that was not available a few years back. Re-visiting a concept (i.e. bottom bracket concentric pivot) that was not useful before, does not mean this is a mistake. Perhaps they have just found a way to use the concept to provide a better product.
  • 3 1
 Do you swallow too?
  • 1 0
 @herzalot what a fascinating and valuable addition you've made to the conversation. Instead of making jokes about blow jobs, why don't you address the question. Have you ever seen a bike with a one sided seat stay? How about a DH bike with a concentric main pivot? Can you name a single bike that has changed so dramatically from one generation to the next? Can you name 2 other DH frames that are 100% carbon?

Didn't think so.
  • 2 1
 KJP: "Re-visiting a concept (i.e. bottom bracket concentric pivot) that was not useful before, does not mean this is a mistake. Perhaps they have just found a way to use the concept to provide a better product."

I like how you admit it was not usefull before, you don't even sound very convinced it's an improvement.

A one sided seat stay isn't an improvement, 2 other (crappy) brands have used the concentric bb on DH bikes, and the first carbon v10 was more stunning than the new Demo. Now you can finish swallowing.
  • 2 1
 @KJP1230
I haven't seen "one sided seat stay", but if your goal is to have an easy access to the shock, Kona Operator have a better layout.
Concentric main pivots, like a rotec, morpheus, or cavalerie falcon?
Yes, I can name a bike that has changed a lot, the commençal supreme (v2 vs v3)
I can't name 2 carbon dh frames, but I don't care, I don't like plastic&charcoal made bikes.
  • 1 0
 @protour Frankly, until people mentioned some other obscure company that tried the concentric bottom bracket pivots some years back, I was unaware it had been attempted. I have serious doubts that Specialized decided to use the concept because it provided less performance. Please refrain from telling me what I am admitting, by simply trying to set up a defensible position against a gripe I have already seen on Pinkbike.

Are you an engineer? Do you have any of they dynamics figures or calculations for frame testing in front of you? If not, you literally (by the definition of the word literally) have not idea how the new frame performs. You haven't ridden it. You don't know anyone that has - and even if you did, unless they are at least a CAT 1 rider I wouldn't place stock in their opinion. And the people who HAVE (testers and pros) are all saying that it is improving on an already great product. The Specialized team has had not problems racing the new frame, posting great results in a super tight World Cup race. You have no background with the product itself to tell me if a one sided seat stay is, in fact, an improvement or not. I know we have been down this path before - so before you come back with a response, please understand that if taken objectively, all of these sentences are 100% valid critiques.

Your assertion that the first carbon V10 is "more stunning" is a subjective statement. Since this is an article about "innovation" I would argue that altering an existing platform to carbon is not innovative - but redesigning a frame that went largely unaltered for 10+ years, to a design that has never been done before, does qualify as "innovation" based on the literal definition of the word "innovation".
  • 1 0
 @faul I am not arguing whether a 1 sided seat stay is an improvement. But it's never been done before, and it was first attempted in a DH bike. That is the definition of an innovation. Combine that stand-alone feature with the rare concentric pivot, the radical change to a frame that has gone largely unchanged for a decade, and the all carbon construction and you have a combination of factors that definitely qualify as innovative.
  • 1 1
 You finished swallowing, then you vomited it all back up. Grotesque.
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