The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 4 - Why is Every Bike a Trail Bike? (and Kazimer's Anime Body Pillow)

Apr 22, 2020
by Mike Levy  
photo
Art by Taj Mihelich


Hosted by Mike Levy and featuring a rotating cast of the editorial team and other guests, the Pinkbike Podcast is a weekly update on all the latest stories from around the world of mountain biking, as well as some frank discussion about tech, racing, and everything in between.

What the heck is a trail bike these days? I'm in the middle of testing Spot's 115mm-travel Ryve, a speedy red machine with a 120mm fork and cross-country efficiency. To some, the Ryve is a trail bike. Prior to getting on the Spot, I had been testing Deviate's 140mm-travel Highlander (review soon) that's called a trail bike but is really just an enduro rig in disguise. To muddy the waters even further, Pole's Stamina 140 was included in last year's trail bike category at the Field Test but proved to be just as capable most enduro bikes. Confused? Yeah, me too.

So, what the heck is a trail bike? Aren't they really just mountain bikes evolved from when those two words summed up everything you needed to know and every type of bike? And why does Kazimer have an anime body pillow?

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever else you get your podcasts.



THE PINKBIKE PODCAST // EPISODE 4 - WHY IS EVERY BIKE A TRAIL BIKE
April 22nd, 2020

Levy, Kaz, James, & Brian chat about how modern trail bikes can be everything from long-legged cross-country rigs to enduro-lite machines, and if that makes any sense.


Previous Pinkbike Podcasts
Episode 1 - Why Are Bikes So Expensive?
Episode 2 - Where the Hell is the Grim Donut?
Episode 3 - Pond Beaver Tech


Hit us in the comments with your suggestions: What do you want to hear us talk about? Would you be into watching a video version, or are our dulcet voices enough for you?

Posted In:
Podcasts Reviews and Tech The Pinkbike Podcast Brian Park James Smurthwaite Mike Kazimer Mike Levy


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175 Comments
  • 68 2
 An enduro bike is the bike that everybody wants but a trail bike is the one that most people really need.
  • 6 0
 Accurate!I bought the new Bronson last year to downgrade and suddently I felt like I’d use the Bronson for bike park days and I’d much rather need a 5010 or so
  • 5 0
 True, lots of people end up completely overbiked. Feeling the same about my Commencal Meta TR now. Last year when I got it, I even "up-shocked" it from a 210x50 to a 210x55 so that it now has about 145mm of rear travel instead of 130mm. But after living with it some time I've realized that on the terrain I ride, for 99% of the time I'd probably enjoy a light, agile STT (short travel trail) bike a lot more
  • 7 2
 Hardtail enduro, best of both worlds?
  • 12 3
 @benmoosmann: this is 100% true but that 1% you need your Enduro bike, it's 1000% more fun then your 99% trail rides! Can I get an Amen?
  • 17 0
 I think most people end up over bikes for the sole reason that most average riders only have 1 bike and it’s better to have a bike that can do everything instead of a very specialized one.
  • 8 0
 @Vutt73: Out here in BC if you ride black/double black trails there is lots of opportunity to use 160mm travel! Now as the enduro market shifts to 180/165mm travel do I really want a mini DH bike given the amount of climbing to get up there? That's tougher to answer.
  • 5 1
 A Trail bike is a bike that on your loop,or your out and back, you have no more than 150ft of elevation gain/loss.....and you wish you lived anywhere else.
  • 4 0
 @friendlyfoe: Good question, but I think the answer is No. I draw the line at 170mm (front AND/OR rear). I live in the PNW, US, and have a bike park within 90 mins away. I can only afford one really good, full sus MTB, so it needs to handle a big range of shit. I don't do double blacks or race, but i do ride single blacks. I really don't want to be under biked, it's no fun. That being said, I don't want to deal with 180mm since I do ride a varied range of trails.
  • 5 4
 @tremeer023: An aggressive hardtail is all you need!
  • 5 0
 Just "downgraded" from a Trek Slash to a Trek Fuel EX. I'm not at all worried about being underbiked and I'm actually looking forward to having something a little more agile and playful.
  • 4 0
 Unless you live in Squamish. Then you prob need as much travel as you can get if you wanna ride all the trails! Especially if you are old and weak like me.
  • 4 0
 Enduro is a misleading term, at least for the Enduros I’ve races. Most of my enduro time is BME and some local stuff like the Monarch Crest Enduro. I race +/- 1 race a enduro year. So I’m familiar with it but I’m not all enduro all the time.

For these races a well built trail bike is way faster than an “enduro” bike. For example I have a Ripmo (145/160 65HTA, trail bike by its intent, designed to climb well and descend well with equal emphasis) and a Capra (170/180 63HTA, enduro bike designed to be able to climb but focus is DH). Both bikes have Works anglesets. The Ripmo is faster on 9/10 stages that these races are held on. Capra is a sick park bike and I love it for riding steep trails. But it’s too squishy for the enduro tracks in my region. Shorter travel, better pedaling wins over super squish.
  • 2 0
 @mybaben: I ride a lot of single blacks in WA and maybe I’m crazy but my sb130 seems plenty capable of the task. I don’t really see a need for more travel. Maybe I’m just retarded.
  • 1 0
 @Vutt73: Amen to that.

Its just that after riding my friends custom built Banshee Phantom V3 and my other friends Canyon Neuron CF that the Meta feels like a big, sluggish brute in comparison. Its brilliant in the terrain its intended for, just doesn't feel like the right tool for the job most of the time around here.
  • 2 0
 I picked up a banshee prime a year and a half ago and it's perfect for most of my rides, slight overkill for the loop by work, and it gets over its head in really chunky bike park stuff but otherwise it's perfect, could drop a pound or 3 but so could I.
  • 2 0
 @Arcadyus: Yes you are. LOL, no just kidding. Well that SB130 is still a very capable 130/150 bike and it's a 29er, with pretty dialed geo, so I can see it working for you for sure! Cheers.
  • 3 0
 @MonsterTruck: ripmo is an enduro bike I think. It almost in a new category of "enduro light" cause it climbs so well. They tweaked the 2020 version to be more Enduro Geo. The Ripley is their designated trail bike I think.
  • 2 0
 @Vutt73: well eff me running. The Ripmo 145 travel 66 HTA and pedals like and XC bike is in the same category as the Specialized Enduro and the Pole Stamina 180.

I’d say that Ibis just bracketed the Trail category with an aggressive trail and a light trail. But I’m probably on my own with that one though.
  • 2 0
 @MonsterTruck: I think you just compared rear travel to front travel there.

You certainly could race the ripmo if your heart desires or the track called for it but the mojo is officially their enduro bike.
  • 1 0
 @friendlyfoe: I think that is true. The Ripmo so far as I look at categories is no enduro bike. It may push the trail bike category to the limit, but it’s no Slayer. What I’m saying is that enduro is an odd term because in the races I’ve done the shorter travel bikes (aggressive trail??? Stumpy, Remedy, Ripmo etc, ) are faster than the enduro (mini DH, Enduro, Slayer, Mojo). Sure the EWS at North Star would be different, but that is uncommon in the world of North American enduro races.
  • 1 0
 @friendlyfoe: nope, Rear Travel on Ripmo 145. Rear travel on the Enduro is 170. Rear travel on Pole Stamina 180 is 180. I’d say they will ride sufficiently differently and are designed with sufficiently different intent as to be classified differently.

If I walked into a shop saying I wanna do 3-5hr rides in the alpine in Colorado with 5K’ climbing and still shred the downhills and they showed me an Enduro I’d walk out the front door. If they showed me a Ripmo I’d say take my money.
  • 1 0
 @MonsterTruck: By the same token Richie Rude won an EWS (multiple EWS?) race(s) with an aggressor rear tire. Right bike for the right terrain.

It's funny that the need to define things is just part of how our brains work. The progression here is pretty logical. We had an all mountain category as equipment allowed for us to have long travel trail bikes. Then enduro became a form of racing and the bikes suited to that were referred to as enduro bikes.

It's not surprising that some models might be borderline between categories. For me the simplest way to think of it is that Enduro is bikes made for racing, XC is bikes that are made for racing, and everything in between is some form of trail bike.
  • 1 0
 @friendlyfoe: it is unlikely to win an XC race on a bike other than an XC race bike. And it is unlikely to win DH on a bike other than a DH bike. But for Enduro, often times Enduro race bikes are NOT the best option. That’s why I think Enduro is a goofy category for bikes to be listed as.
  • 1 0
 @MonsterTruck: I rode the crest last weekend on my timbersled, lots of snow still up there.
  • 19 0
 The boundaries between categories are blurrier every year. Now you can’t use travel as the main feature, as geometry plays an important role in what a bike is capable to do. Also, I want to believe that every year the average rider/mtb enthusiast is more informed thanks to sites like PB, and they are able to pick/decide what bike suits their style-terrain-fitness level best, and are less influenced by the industry BS.
  • 4 0
 Geo is massively more important than travel. Look at any of the super progressive HT as evidence of this. Also geo changes are starting to slow down which means at some point in the near future you will be able to classify bikes by their geo rather than travel.
  • 4 0
 Where are downhill bikes going? 400mm of travel, 46° HTA and 34" wheels
  • 1 0
 Does the classification change if it’s an ebike?
  • 2 1
 Perfectly happy riding my 125mm Transition at Whistler, I'm not hitting black runs at full speed or anything but it's more than capable enough to enjoy the trails; it's probably more fun than a DH/Enduro on the blue runs too.
  • 9 3
 @src248: ahhhh..no it's not
  • 2 0
 @Vutt73: Not what? Are you saying I'm not actually having fun on my bike or that you need 200mm to ride a flow/jump trail?
  • 1 0
 @Vutt73: I was having way more fun ripping dirt merchant for a month on a bottle rocket rather than a tr500
  • 15 1
 In my book, a trail bike is in between xc and enduro. So its basically like the "evolution" of an all mountain bike like we use to call back in the days...
  • 58 5
 In my book a trail bike is somewhere between aggressive XC and all mountain where aggressive XC is between XXC and trail. All mountain is exactly between trail and enduro. Enduro is between all mountain and superenduro. XC is between CX and XXC where CX is between XC and gravel. Pretty simple stuff, I don't get how so many people still get it wrong.
  • 6 4
 Oh well that is why I do offroad cycling on forest paths. I am tired of terms of folks who want to either sound cool or condenscend others. Goggles with half lid are So Enduro bro! - Oh you are sooo above it, so keep it real for saying it. I respect you instantly. Like Geometron is a “modern” bike. Thank God term “playful” died with 29” DH bikes.
  • 5 7
 In my mind a trail bike is any bike you enjoy trails on. My 50 pound DH E bike makes for a very playful trail bike.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: yup. I ride my bikes on the same trails right now. Just a pick your own adventure of which features to hit, and trying to remember not to hit the biggest stuff on the hardtail!
  • 2 0
 @vinay: great post
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: i only read your posts now to see if youre gonna talk shit about my bike.
Thanks!
  • 1 0
 There is a huge emphasis on downhill performance in the trail category. I fear with the popularity or shuttles and E bike pedal assist stuff that people are caring less and less about how a bike actually pedals. I live in the maritimes on the east coast. There's not a lot of elevation to use so you have to pedal to have fun. I'm not interested in any enduro bikes and only half of the trail bikes that are out there because at least 50% of them are beefier than the "all mountain" bikes of 12 year ago, which were already too much bike for most riders here. I love seeing a guy on a 6 inch bike, squishing around while his suspension saps his momentum, trying to negotiate a root-filled trail, usually with 3 inches of bar stuck out past each hand cause he needs that 820mm bar for "downhill stability"....for that 15 seconds of downhill that happens once or twice every 20 mins.
  • 1 0
 @greener1: there are 120 travel bikes that pedal worse than 160 bikes. Sure I’m fastest on my hardtail on a lot of trails for overall time, but that doesn’t mean I always had the most fun doing it.

When the evil following came out a lot of people jumped on the 120 hype train, almost everyone I know is now back on longer travel bikes if they are not xc focused. Why give up comfort and capability and only save a pound or two of bike weight? A good prd is more useful lol
  • 1 0
 @scary1: this is what you don’t understand. It’s not about your bike. I love how Geometron looks, that it exists, enriching limited gene pool where half of bikes look like a session. Hell I’d love to ride one. It’s about Attitude of folks who think this bike or any other for that matter, is a second coming of Christ.
  • 1 0
 @DHhack: agreed
  • 1 0
 @DHhack: Maybe there are 160 bikes that pedal better than 120 bikes, but I suspect you're going to pay A LOT or them most times. I know there are bikes that are exceptions, like the recent IBIS Ripmo AF to name just one. 29 inch wheels I think have helped close the gap a bit to keep the pedaling momentumn going better on the big bikes these days and yeah it's always nice to have more capability. From what I see where I live though, people buying bikes in the 2500-3500 price range often appear way over biked to me land they look like they'd be doing better on something more appropriate for the landscape.
  • 2 0
 My preferred generalizations over the three:

XC = occasionally wear lycra. Unlikely to ever really want knee pads
Trail = highly unlikely to reach for lycra or a full face.
Enduro = probably going to consider a full face and knee pads for a a lot of rides.
  • 12 0
 Really hope we d eventually only hear the two Mike s on the mike.Most accurate yet articulate bike geeks I love listening to. Leave them alone they re objective with their opinions which is how it should be ! Thanks a lot PB!
  • 12 0
 Smile
  • 12 0
 Smile
  • 11 0
 teacher's pet
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: You have too many bosses, I feel like you say that they are all your boss but really you are their boss.
  • 1 0
 @joshfrandsen: in between me and any real people Mike Levy is the true boss of all bosses in every way I’m intrested in bikes however unfortunately some are hired on a higher position than Mike Levy is,although they re aren’t at all qualified to occupy such positions which is sad and frustrating
  • 1 0
 @barbarosza: It was just a joke
  • 11 0
 So whatever happened to the all-mountain category?

Y'all discussing something that was already solved a long time ago. XC>Trail>AM>Enduro Race>DH
  • 9 0
 It seems like All-Mountain became Enduro at some point.
  • 2 0
 Sure. But AM seems to (ironically) have fallen out of favour when we stopped classifing bikes by their suspension travel numbers.
  • 6 0
 @bulletbassman, I'm working on bringing it back. I'm a fan of that category.
  • 6 0
 @mikekazimer: I love that the Mikes have the power to create and destroy bike categories at will!
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: is a 150mm bike allmountain or enduro... I'm very confused now.
  • 1 0
 @romeo-mtb: I would say all mountain though with a heavy enough build it leans into the enduro category. Especially with 29ers.
  • 1 0
 Paul Aston has the best Trail bike!
  • 1 0
 @bulletbassman: I honestly think that the allmountain category is no more, just trail and enduro is already confusing.
  • 8 2
 This is why noobs need bike shops. Go into the shop, speak to someone about what they want to ride and buy a suitable bike. The more experience you have the more you know what you need and the less the category matters.
  • 21 0
 This is why noobs need GOOD bike shops. I've seen shops way over-bike people, or just push what they have and want to get rid of...
  • 2 1
 @krka73: Good point. Also head to head reviews like the Field Trip series are invaluable.
  • 1 0
 @krka73: I was told when I was starting out that I needed a remedy. Now I know that I definitely didn't need a remedy and am forever grateful that I started out on a relatively inexpensive hardtail instead. Obviously the upgrade to a full squish eventually came.
  • 8 3
 I think All Mountain should be an overarching term to cover any bike than you can ride up and then down. XC, Trail & Enduro belong in this group. Add in DH (dual-crown forks only), and you'e got your 4 main subcats. Sure there are bikes that fall in between 2 subcats, but the dominant design and traits prevail. Marketers can spin in All Mountain, aggressive ____, Downcountry, Superenduro, whatever, but at the end of the day the pedigree is what it is.

Now get off my lawn!
  • 1 0
 All-mountain used to be the term they used. But then they switched to Enduro at some point.
  • 2 2
 @TheR: in some places "all mountain" is enduro bikes with steep angles, but in other places it's small-ish trail bikes. Kaz and Levy use it to mean the former—basically a capable, long travel trail bike that doesn't have the angles to go fast.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Brian, in the podcast when you were talking about the Trail bike spectrum, and you said, "Light trail to Aggressive Trail etc.", were you including the existence of the All Mountain category or no? Because I'm wondering if there is redundancy here. Thx.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: To me “All Mountain” is a bike that can be ridden anywhere (all mountains) without being silly, from tame XC trails to lift access riding - some might call it a “quiver killer”. The Ripmo comes to mind. Trail bikes to me are a step below AM, where people might be looking at you a little strange if you put it on a chair lift and slap on a full face helmet, and Enduro a step up, where you get the same looks slacked out pedal bobbing on local XC trails.
  • 4 1
 @mybaben: I ignore the term all mountain altogether because it means different things in Europe vs North America. I'm sure you can tell from the podcast that I'm over the top boring with categorization. I just want clarity and apples-to-apples; it's hard enough for new users to understand this sport as it is.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: That's fine, I can roll with no "All Mtn" cat. I like clarity as well. I just brought it up bc listening to you in the podcast, there wasn't much room to fit it "All Mtn" in between your "aggressive trail" bike and an enduro bike. Smile
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: All Country?
  • 1 0
 @samtaylor1983: I would have thought Canadiens would have liked "Big Country" more so...
  • 1 0
 sooo mountain bike?
  • 5 0
 Great episode guys! I haven't been a fan of podcasts, but I've really enjoyed this new format for you. As far as the trail bike debate, I'm with Brian on intended balance between uphill and downhill. Trail bikes are hard to categorize because they aren't specialized like XC, Enduro or DH. Maybe we need to split the trail bike category based on which side of the 50/50 split it favors. Dentist Trail and Bro Trail? East coast/West coast? (sorry Pisgah, you're stuck in the wrong territory) All Trail/Gravity Trail?
  • 2 0
 So I guess my bike could be peasant trail?
  • 1 0
 @PNdubRider: is it a singlespeed rigid?
  • 4 0
 Because bikes are getting lighter and pedal better, with excellent kinematics and advanced shocks. Tires are lower in rolling resistance so those big knobbies aren't such a drag. You can ride all day on your 160mm bike and not give up much.
  • 1 0
 True, unless you like going fast uphill and even on some flatter sections.
  • 3 0
 @mikelevy How about you guys talk about the Pole Stamina 140 (a trail bike) and compare it to the Pole Stamina 180 (a Enduro bike). And really go deep on near identical bikes what "really" are the benefits of 40mm.

Enjoyed the podcast - Happy Trails
  • 9 2
 Seriously, can I get a transcription?
  • 5 1
 Serious question, why do you want a transcript?
  • 5 1
 @Tom-Ryde: He probably wants to read instead of watching
  • 7 0
 You know what a podcast is right?
  • 8 1
 I’ve been trying to find a way to do this, but to be honest I don’t think we’ll do a transcription for our podcasts. We spend enough time typing, it’s nice to just chat. And transcription services aren’t that accurate when you have tech jargon. Plus it’s pretty expensive to do 52 weeks of the year.

We will start pulling shorter video clips out though.
  • 2 0
 @Tom-Ryde: I have a very difficult time with attention span when it comes to audio. I can’t just sit somewhere for half of a hour to just listen to something.
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: Thank you for a honest answer.
  • 1 0
 @kookseverywhere: Maybe he’s deaf...?
  • 1 0
 @Unrealityshow: Sorry, didn’t see your response. I’m kinda the same way- I’m a fast reader and sometimes prefer my own pace!
  • 1 0
 @Staktup: you can play the podcast at 2x. I prefer not to, but it’s an option.
  • 3 0
 In case anyone is interest in my opinion (which they're not):

XC bikes: 100 - 110 mm rear travel, 80/20 climbing/descending
Marathon bikes: 110 - 120 mm rear travel 70/30 climbing/descending
Trail bikes: 120 - 140 mm rear travel 50/50 - 40/60 climbing/descending
Enduro bikes: 140 - 170 mm rear travel, 30/70 - 40/60 climbing/descending
Freeride bikes: 160 - 180 mm rear travel, 20/80 climbing/descending
DH bikes: > 180 mm rear travel. 0/100 climbing/descending
  • 3 0
 Yeah, that would be nice. Or at least give us the time of when they talk about kazimers body pillow. That was the only reason I came here besides to *read the transcript about the trail bike debate* (no offense)
  • 1 0
 You re in my books Smile
  • 2 0
 You guys hinted at it today but I’d like to hear more about different tires and rim widths and rim materials. What works well for different types of riding. Wider front rim and tire for front vs. back. Different tires front and back? Widths. All that kind of stuff.
  • 5 1
 We should revisit this sometime, but Matt Wragg did something along these lines for us back in 2018: www.pinkbike.com/news/rim-widths-comparison-test-mountain-bike.html
  • 2 0
 People want trail bikes for the same reason most people want skis with an 85-90mm waist. Race skis and powder skis are too purpose-specific for like 90 percent of people out on the slopes. Likewise, XC race bikes, downhill bikes, and to a certain extent, Enduro bikes, are a little too much for most people. It makes total sense.
  • 2 0
 Absolutely true, many skiers buy wide powder skis because they like powder skiing when in reality they ski 95% of the time on groomers. Enduro vs trail.
  • 2 0
 @kingbike2: I'm always a little bemused when I see a guy with 120s underfoot when the resort hasn't seen snow for two weeks. Ugh. I guess you can use them, but something a little skinnier would be more fun at that point. Also in my head, a guy with the big fat skis would be savvy enough to have a few skis in his quiver, just as a guy with a downhill bike would be savvy enough to have different bike in his.
  • 3 0
 @TheR: To play devil's advocate - Sometimes fat waisted skis can be fun to charge through chop and crud, especially off piste. A good skier can still ski fat skis well in poor conditions. Same as a skilled bike rider can manoeuvre / ride a bigger enduro bike in mellow terrain. Obviously you will have guys skiing 120 underfoot, that can barely control 90 underfoot skis, same as you have guys riding long travel enduro bikes, that can't bunny hop and barely have basic bike control skills.
  • 3 0
 @jawa: I fully agree. Seeing this comparison actually made me more confident in owning a 150mm/170mm bike than anything else. If I had to ski 120's on ice all year for 10 powder days I'd do it! Although my biking ability does not quite equate to my ability to lay trenches on my powder skis.
  • 2 0
 @jawa: @LeoTProductions: Yeah, maybe. Something about those guys just strikes me as either really optimistic or just really hopeful they’ll find that magical stash that makes it all worthwhile. Like they bought them more for the conditions they wished they had, than what they actually have.

But I get where they are coming from. It would be nice to have bikes and skis for all conditions, but not everyone can do that. I’m in the same boat, but I skew toward the middle with mid-fat skis and a 160mm enduro bike.
  • 1 0
 @TheR: fair point. There is certainly a limit to how big you can go before those terrible days outweigh the powder days. For me it’s around 108-115mm waist and 150-160mm travel
  • 2 0
 "Trail" bikes for me always were those classic 120mm-travel, full-suspension, all purpose bikes that kinda never go out of fashion. Conventional wisdom would dictate that the category is typically more entry level, but that obviously doesn't hold true today any more. Its still a great place to start for newcomers, but those STT (short travel trail) bikes have become a lot more capable in the recent past. Specifically with models like the Norco Optic, SC Tallboy, Giant Trance, etc that wouldn't look too much out of place even in a lift served bike park.
  • 2 0
 A trail bike may need to balance more toward downhill capability than an xc bike, but it should be able to go up a janky climb without the front wheel wandering. Too many trail bikes that skew towards enduro climb well only on gravel roads. Some of the downcountry bikes probably have a lot of overlap here, but trail prioritizes fun (think leaving the ground) while xc prioritizes efficiency (hugging the ground for traction, control, and the ability to throw the hammer down).
I agree that geo and travel, in isolation, is not a useful metric for defining category.
  • 4 0
 I'm starting to think Pinkbike is ran Office Space style. How many bosses does one man need?!?
  • 17 0
 It’s a lot of work getting Levy to submit those TPS reports.
  • 7 0
 All the bosses.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: You now have video evidence of Kaz jumping out and squirting an unknown fluid at you. Workplaceharassmentsuitsaidwhat?
  • 1 0
 Talk about the new wave of short travel bikes optic vs tallboy vz yt izzo vs marin riftzone 2 etc. Then i would love to hear more about your favorite type of rear suspension type and maybe name one example for each category. Then mayby go thru direct sales bike and compare them to non direct bikes regarding their ridimg ability , not the price difference. Capra vs new enduro. Jeffsy vs tallboy etc..
  • 1 0
 So, I've heard it's not the size, it's how you use it. I used to be super enduro. I'd find the road to climb to get to the down. I moved and my new trails are challenging going up in more ways than just the hurt locker way. I thought I got a down country bike for them, but really it's a trail bike. I love it. Levy is onto something with the impossible climb. It's something we need to bring back (Jeff Lenosky and whoever else is trying). There's skill there. I keep watching trails get rerouted to make them easier (my old trails and insert middle finger here). You guys ride in a safer place (rider driven/made trails), but there is a lot of dumbing down of trails as bikes get way better. Any thoughts? And sure, throw the e-thing in there. Cause assist climbing is a dumbing down in a way. Might as well throw gas on a lit fire.
  • 1 0
 Does everyone live in the mountains? Hope they still make bikes for the people that live in flat states, midwest, the plains, etc... I guess I'll be riding a road bike in the woods as bike styles shift for the mountain dwellers.
  • 1 0
 First of all - Very educational podcast.

I believe I am seriously over-biked. Partially because if you are new to Mountain biking (or any sport), you are making a significant purchase when you will never know less about the sport. Many local bike shops either know very little about mountain biking, or are terrible at relating their knowledge to the individual.

Right now, I am researching Fat bikes (which I likely won't be able to purchase until inventory is replenished), and the LBS are of little value - yet they want me to buy locally. The most frequent response is "it all depends on what you want". So I ask if they ride Fat bike. The answer is "yes". But they don't have an opinion on if a front shock is required on our local trails, which are rolling hills and tight flat trails through the woods? How can that be?

I know how to read a geometry chart, and I believe I know exactly what I need for reach and stack, but what about seat tube length, head tube length & angle, top tube length, etc. How can you expect the beginner or intermediate rider to understand the effects of each of those dimensions and determine which are most important in selecting a bike? Most LBS workers speak in S, M, L terms. Frustrating.
  • 1 0
 Shop employee education and then retaining those employees has certainly always been an issue. I think part of it is the low pay that breeds low expectations and employees moving on to "real careers." Geometry has changed SO MUCH over the last five years and it's not as straightforward as it used to be, but the geo is also a lot better once you understand it.

We made this 'Basics of Modern Geometry' Explainer video awhile back that might help: www.pinkbike.com/news/video-the-basics-of-modern-mountain-bike-geometry-explainer-2020.html

And we'll do a geometry podcast real soon Smile
  • 4 3
 Future "Shoot Out" / "Field Trip" Idea: Don't worry about apples to oranges, pick a favorite fruit for a given trail....
Ride a wide range of bike categories (XC, Downcountry, Trail, bla bla bla Downhill) in British Columbia, then pick a favorite for that area/trail. Then take those same bikes to Colorado, pick a winner, then to North Carolina, Santa Cruz, France, Scotland, Japan, Jamaica, North Korea...etc. Ride the trails that the locals ride.
  • 8 1
 'Hey Pinkbike, Why are there loads more ads on the site?'
'Well, we have to test bikes on every trail, everywhere in the world, now...'
  • 2 0
 @tomhoward379: Hey they got the Grim Donut built... just saying
  • 5 0
 Really hope the pinkbike podcasts are here to stay.
  • 1 0
 Boycotting tires manufactures to switch to direct consumer sales yes I’m pro that ! Very good point let’s encourage that Smile it would have a strong economical impact on a seasons basis.

An interesting topic I’d propose is debating hours of sleep, bad habits such as eating too much sugar products then all of these combined with the amount of hours you put in a day or per week in actual riding.

Then another topic / debate would be - do mare mortals typical weekend warriors ( like myself ) have the chance of not loosing skills with the small amount of riding that we do ?

Would it be possible to invite Elliot Jackson to this podcast ok some episode ? I know he has his own Reggy show and I love it but who knows it’s always a pleasure listening to that wise man. Thanks a lot for doing this ! Love this podcast
  • 1 0
 @barbarosza I can relate to the not getting enough riding time! I'm bummed that I only get to ride once a week, especially when I see and hear others on social media talking about riding 3-5x a week. Frown
  • 2 0
 Right ? Still I love following PB and this podcast is doing good to my ears as I’m truck driving in between Canada and USA during this pandemic so podcasts are the way to go for me @mybaben:
  • 1 0
 In my mind a trailbike is a bike that works on any trail ride. In one end of the spectrum there's bikes that you wouldn't mind riding the occasional XC-marathon on but not something you'd take for a full day in the park, even if you could probably make it work (like the Ibis Ripley). On the other end there's bikes like the SC Megatower, that fulfills the opposite equation.

More categories than that aren't needed.
  • 1 0
 I dig the new podcast! How about a episode about linkage forks? Why they make sense, why they don't. Personally I believe that as head tube angles get slacker we will see them become more prevalent. If manufactures can get the price down.
  • 1 0
 Great podcast. You 4 seem to have a good dynamic going on. I always thought that Pole was pronounced as it looks and you guys are saying it the same way, but I noticed the GMBN guys are say "Poe-Lay." They're sponsored by them, so I'm guessing they're saying it correctly! Maybe after you broke their bike they were to sheepish to correct you.
  • 1 0
 Ok, here's a thing to discuss on the next podcast: bike sizing. I've been riding since '89 and back then you bought a bike based on seat tube measurement. So just like a road bikes, only in inches not centimetres because, America. All good. So since then, I've bought maybe nine mountain bikes from different brands, all in the kind of 18" or 'M'. Then last summer I wanted to upgrade my 2015 Yeti SB5C and demo'd an Evil Offering and a Yeti SB130 – both in size large. I was concerned that they'd be like barges as they're both around 480mm reach – 65mm longer than the SB5C. But they were a revelation! I felt more confident and I was definitely moving faster on both bikes. I bought the Yeti and am totally sold on the new LLS geo, to the extent that I think I may have been riding bikes that have been too small for 30 years. I'm still a relatively slow, sh*tty rider, with few skills – but I'm having fun... Then this year I've started seeing a backlash against 'sizing up'. Now, I briefly tried a size medium Yeti and it felt cramped in comparison. And I also demo'd a medium Offering and while it was a fine bike, it didn't make me feel as indestructible on descents as the Large. And what's more, I'm beating my climbing PRs on my regular trails on this new bike, even though it weighs 3lbs more than my last one. So, who is "right"? Is there a "right"? Or should we all just shut the f*ck up and enjoy the bikes we've got? Thanks.
  • 1 0
 mrrichardh, I agree!!!!

I'm 6'5" and rode a 2012 XL Trek Fuel Ex 8 with 440mm reach. It seemed like an awesome bike, but I was slow and crashed a lot. After a few years of trial, error, research, and thoughts of giving up MTB, I bought a 2017 XL Kona Process 111 with 510mm of reach. The previous owner (who also owns a chain of bike shops) was shorter than me and had a 90mm stem on the bike. Ridiculous setup, but it still worked a lot better than the Trek with less reach. However, I eventually purchased Lee McCormack's book called "Dialed, the secret math of a perfect mountain bike set up". I ended up swapping in a 40mm stem . My hands are almost perfectly in line with the pivot of the bars, and it's like I'm on a way better bike. I wish I knew this when I purchased my first MTB.
  • 1 0
 Topic suggestion: would be a big ambitious video, but how about a comparison of some of the top DH guys and their styles. Line choice, posture, relative bike size they run, how stiff they run suspension etc. Are there actually real differences, or is it all superficial and they all ride the important parts of a track the same? If you could call someone like Cathro in on that it would be amazing
  • 2 1
 Because the industry needs to keep selling stuff. The trail bike is obviously this year's must-have and a few subliminal hints is all that's needed to plant that seed in our brains we've got to have one.
  • 1 0
 Can we have a new way of defining what type of bike it is, ignore suspension and geometry numbers and just focus on which terrain the bike feels most enjoyable/comfortable on?
  • 4 0
 Pretty sure that was Brian’s whole point. Categorize by what the bike is intended for. And I agree with this. Spec, wheels and tires etc make as much difference as HTA and travel. Light rubber and small rotors is not enduro even if you’ve got a 160 Fork. And 100 travel with a set of Minions is not XC , it’s not even down country.
  • 2 2
 Just go to Norco’s website and try to find a bike. That alone will tell you that there are too many stinking categories.
Downhill, Enduro, All Mountain, Trail, Fat Bike, XC Race, Cross Country and Dirt Jump. At least there’s no Downcountry in there!
  • 4 0
 To me, a lot of choice is a good thing.
  • 3 1
 @Ian713: Unfortunately this is a major cost driver which hurts us all. Some trimming back wouldn't be a bad thing IMO. Just look at Sram as another example: they have 14 drivetrain options under their mountain bike lineup! That's bloody ridiculous and has paved the way for some pretty poor specs on some expensive bikes.
  • 1 0
 @bogey: You make a good case, and have somewhat altered my position.
  • 4 0
 Does @mikelevy have a kashima coated tooth?
  • 6 0
 #cloutcoating
  • 1 0
 You guys should do an episode about rear suspension design. Is there an overall best one in a certain bike category? Do you have a personal favorite? Is one design just as good as the next? Etc...
  • 1 0
 Talk about Jared Graves getting some podiums on the Stumpy (trail oriented?) vs Curtis Keene and the Enduro. Makes things confusing, right?
  • 1 1
 @TreyDownhill: I guess we all can't have the patience of a zen master.
I reckon if the Dalai Lama were a mountain biker he himself would be a little vexed by the suspense of it all.
  • 3 0
 So what is Kazimer's waifu's name?
  • 3 0
 Give the people what they want @mikekazimer
  • 2 0
 Gonna miss my Hightower LT that raced both xc and enduro events and I sold just prior to COVID events. Hindsight...
  • 1 2
 Why can't we have a DH race that is streamed online? no public, just teams and their racers? It'd be no more than say 200 people on a mountain taking all of the precautions necessary, maybe have them all quarantine in the mountain resort for 2 weeks just to be sure and once they are green-lit these 200 or so people could just go around as a unit, racing across different venues
  • 2 0
 Like I said in the podcast, it costs a lot of money and venues aren’t going to be able to pay for it if it’s not bringing the crowds.
  • 1 0
 Well if you need more people to pay to travel to races when everything starts you know where to find me... in the comments section
  • 2 0
 Thanks guys. Great podcast, super fun. Good audio mix. Were you all in the same room? Was James there?
  • 1 0
 The dudes are spread out all around the world due to the obvious limitations right now. Glad you're enjoying the episodes!
  • 1 0
 @jasonlucas: I assumed they were, but the audio was so uniform and clean. Your tech guys nailed it! Smile
  • 2 0
 @mybaben: the first few episodes were not so clean. I've gotten everyone better mics and our post production workflow has improved. Plus the software we're using (Squadcast) seems really good so far.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Nice! It's sounding good! Good call on the new audio gear.
  • 3 0
 @MikeLevy

You are a funny dude. Let's ride!
  • 2 1
 Podcast Topic!!

Best selling MTB of all time?! Best selling bikes of each decade??
  • 6 5
 Because if you call your bike an Enduro bike. You better ride at the pace of an enduro racer.
  • 4 0
 Welp, better stop calling my downhill bike a downhill bike!
  • 2 1
 Trail bike = upforked XC bike with Dh casing tires ridden with half lid and goggles
  • 2 1
 Brought to you by Mike "Bikes Need Kazimergories" Kazimer. Maybe just Mike Kazimergories.
  • 2 1
 "95% of mountain bikers (if blindfolded, or without looking) wouldn't know what tires are on their bike." Seriously?
  • 6 0
 No, not seriously. But I doubt that most riders would notice anything if their tires were swapped out for something comparative from another brand. Keeping it in the same category, mind you.
  • 1 0
 I couldn’t afford the maxxis back in 2016 when I moved back to Canada ( wrong coast this time ).Had a friend who ran a bike shop and used to carry Specialzied and it was his suggestion to try out the “new ” - at the time ( 2016) Specialized Butcher s in 2.6 which ressembled si much with the DHFs. Guess what ? I ended up buying just those tires front and back on all bikes I’ve swapped since 2016 to present, and just now I bought the Michelin s enduro as i felt i needed a change. Ill see how I get along with them@mikelevy:
  • 4 0
 @barbarosza, Levy may claim I'm a Maxxis snob, but I'm a big fan of those Michelin Wild Enduro tires. I ran a set all winter (two fronts, actually, for max traction) was really happy with them
  • 1 0
 thank you for that and I didn’t catch that bit from M Levy about you mainly liking maxxis s however I forgot to mention I ordered them after seeing your review . Someone suggested I d need to run like an insert at least in the rear tire as the sidewalks aren’t stiff enough at lower pressures @mikekazimer:
  • 1 0
 Cush core @mikekazimer:
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: Kaz those things weigh a ton though! (Michelins) Just took those off my bike and put on a Minion DHF and a Dissector and dropped almost half a pound!
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: I agree, Michelin Wild Enduro are my new tire of choice, especially at $50 each. They cover a really wide range of conditions nicely as well.
  • 2 0
 @barbarosza: I'm running them with inserts, wouldn't go back to not using them both front and rear, at least on my Enduro bike.
  • 1 0
 Thank you so much @davec113:
  • 2 0
 @Mike Levy
Your well overdue for a promo. Good Luck!!!!!
  • 1 0
 All this because nobody understands how to write or read a geometry chart.
  • 1 1
 Car tire is a necessity!!! Biking is a hobby. C'mon now. Lower that bike tire prices.
  • 2 0
 This has never made sense to me. High end MTB tires top out at around 100 dollars. High end car tires top out over a 1000. You can get decent mtb tires for 50 and cheapo ones for 20. Try finding a car tire that cheap. I seriously don't think bike tires are a rip-off. Everyone just wants the highest end tires. I'm surprised that they are as cheap as they are.
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