Pinkbike Poll: Should All Competitors Be Compensated at the Red Bull Rampage?

Oct 2, 2015
by Richard Cunningham  

Andreu Lacondeguy at RedBull Rampage 2014
Winner Andreu Lacondeguy at RedBull Rampage, 2014.

Risk is sky high for all competitors at the Red Bull Rampage, and only the top finishers receive compensation for their performances. Traditionally, freeride competitions have been Winner-Take-All formats, but it could be argued that the losers are as important to the show as the victorious few who walk away with the paychecks. Competitors' crashes and failed runs add excitement and drama to the show, and more importantly, they form a framework from which viewers and judges can assess the difficulty and creativity of the winning athletes' efforts.

Tom VanSteenbergen s attempt at a front flip over the canyon gap at RedBull Rampage 2014.
Tom VanSteenbergen's attempt at a front flip over the canyon gap at RedBull Rampage, 2014.

Helicopter operators, cinematographers, announcers, caterers, and production staff are paid well for their services and it is laughable that any of those would be required to put their lives on the line to ensure that the event achieves the desired goals for peak views and product placement. The riders do lay their lives down for the competition, they do it for free, and they pay their own ways for that opportunity. Do or die, the promotors cash in on every rider's performance.

Schaad s bike dancing above him before following the same path
Salt Lake City hopeful, Dustin Schaad's bike dancing above him before following the same path. He appeared in view between the cliffs, took an OTB and to everyone's horror, flew straight down into the ravine. Most photographers failed to capture a complete sequence for fear they might be witnessing a fatality.

The logic here is that all competitors play crucial roles in the Red Bull Rampage competition. Their teams build the jump lines. The riders deliver their performances and even double as cinematographers, because they are required to hand over their POV footage to Red Bull. That footage, as well as the stills and video productions that are produced from the events, automatically belongs to Red Bull and will be viewed by millions of fans for years continuing after the competition is staged. In all fairness, every competitor who qualifies and puts in one or both runs should be amply compensated as a professional performer for participating in the Red Bull Circus - or any FMB event for that matter. It's a sin that they aren't already.

Will White and family.
Will White and family digging his lines. If the Rampage were a music festival, it would go something like this: Hey, let's get twenty top bands together for a contest, give them a field somewhere, have them clear the land and build the stage - then we'll have this killer concert and we will only to pay the winning acts (FMB rules suggest that the top ten be awarded). Oh, and by the way, all the bands will sign a clause that gives us the sole rights to all their music, videos, and images, so we can sell that stuff later.



Red Bull Weighs In:

Pinkbike received a response to this poll from Red Bull Media House, saying that for this year's Rampage, they have increased the pro purse, and added free camping and concessions for the dig teams. I'd say that its a good first step. Now, at least the finalists will be able to cover food and fuel and basic expenses. Here's Red Bull's updated prize list for the upcoming Rampage. - RC

• The prize purse has increased by $25K from 2014 to 2015
• New for 2015, the People’s Choice Winner will also receive a brand new Polaris RZR
• In the past, Rampage paid down to the Top 12 competitors, but this year has decided to pay out the Top 24. That means anyone who makes the finals will walk away with at least $1,000.
• The Top 10 finalists from last year’s event, as well as the Top 10 riders currently in FMB points, have their hotel costs covered for the week.
• Concessions have even been made for the dig teams where free camping has been provided for them, relieving costs previously incurred by athletes or the diggers themselves.
• Diggers receive free lunch all week.
• A welcome dinner and party for athletes and diggers, as well as a closing party, is provided.

"We have made great strides this year in trying to support the athletes in addition to the higher purse prize. In the past, it was difficult for lodging and hospitality for the dig crews, but we made sure to make good on that this year and provide them with amenities to help ease the burden on the riders and their crew. "





Should all competitors be compensated for their performances at the Red Bull Rampage?







267 Comments

  • 605 7
 What if Redbull at least pays for a weekend of good insurance?
  • 133 2
 This is the best way forward imo, it is a competition after all so the winners should obviously be rewarded more than last place but the fact that most photographers there get paid more than the riders is a joke! Redbull should definitely pay for the same insurance for everyone competing though.
  • 45 344
flag bradwalton Plus (Oct 2, 2015 at 0:22) (Below Threshold)
 It's invitational; the riders are already sponsored. If you're unhappy with your compensation, try harder and get a better sponsor.
  • 196 16
 'Try harder and get a better sponsor?'

That peeves me off.
How about, 'Be involved in our event and have the reassurance knowing that we have you covered if anything goes wrong because we're already making shitloads of $ out of you.' Red bull need to step up their game.
  • 211 17
 I get what you're saying, they're a big company. But they cover the logistics and came up with the idea. Who pays other professional athletes? Not the venue where they play. It's the team, which has sponsors. A good sponsor takes care of their athlete. Blame the industry, not the company that created the venue.
  • 45 3
 Valid Point ^
  • 97 4
 I'd pay to not have to hear the announcer Brad say "into the labyrinth" or anything for that matter.
  • 23 19
 While it's simpler to say 'blame the industry', there's nothing stopping the promoter stepping up and doing things on different terms, and that's not me supporting either side of the point. If everyone carries on saying 'but that's how it's always been' we'd still be riding 29ers.
  • 5 3
 If we see rampage as a show therefore everyone should be paid something as they are all 'actors'. Just like in a movie. But then the winner will take lower amount. Does anyone know how it works in redbull x-fighters?
  • 14 6
 @bradwalton my point exactly. They aren't doing it for free, they tend to be on a healthy retainer wage for even when they are broken and not able to earn competiton winnings. Plus, if there was no prize or reason to win, the sport wouldn't get pushed further. Red bull paying for insurance for all competitors isn't exactly right either, as it'd be astronomical in cost or not available. These guys should be covered already as it is their living...
  • 51 3
 Full, comprehensive health and life insurance shouldn't even need to be discussed. It should obviously be provided to the riders who risk their lives so that redbull can make a shitfuck of money and the fact that it isn't is shocking.
  • 19 4
 @bradwalton actually there's quite a few individual sports where the venue/event pays the athletes direct. In the case of golf, tennis, athletics, (and probably many more) the top competitors at many events earn appearance fees. Money from the event, almost all of which comes from event sponsors, just for showing up. It's not unreasonable to expect the same for at least some riders at Rampage. However, I guess most riders see Rampage as the equivalent of a Major in golf or tennis - the biggest stage in the sport and worth getting in to for the potential publicity. It certainly gave McGazza a boost in 2013 and probably enabled him to get a much better deal from sponsors.
  • 11 3
 I think there should be an appearance fee. Build a couple of grandstands and let a lot more spectators sit at the bottom. Fifty dollars a ticket, all of which goes to the riders. Riders could be paid according to where they come from to cover travel expenses for them and their crews. For example, McGaz should be paid an appearance fee of at least five air tickets to and from NZ and five hotel rooms for the week. Of course, he can't fly economy because he's massive, so one of those tickets has to be business class.
  • 15 9
 but........... does it allow competitors to take part in such a risky event without having a good insurance?????

If so, Redbull is a scumbag for allowing this, and riders are basically brainless
  • 8 2
 As a privateer the cost of american extreme sports insurance for an event like rampage would be prohibitive, if they were to only allow riders with insurance it would only be redbull sponsored athletes. In the insurance company's eyes there is a strong chance of at least a hospital visit, possibly with an airlift, or death. If it cost $10,000 for the weekend's insurance I would not be surprised.
  • 20 3
 Red Bull should pay for at least a weekend or insurance or maybe their insurance can only go to a certain extent. They invite Riders to put on a good show and they don't take responsibility for it? It's like inviting a friend to a party and when he's hammered as f*ck you don't make sure that he makes it home for the night.
  • 8 1
 "But they cover the logistics and came up with the idea. Who pays other professional athletes? Not the venue where they play. It's the team, which has sponsors. A good sponsor takes care of their athlete. Blame the industry, not the company that created the venue."

You really can't compare this to most other sports because it's just not the same. Not too many other sports are set up to have just a bunch of individual events. There's normally a league of some sort and a players union independent from the actual teams and sponsors that covers these riders.

Also, whose to say these riders even have teams? Sure most do, but they could easily invite people that don't have teams. And even if someone has an individual sponsor, a company throwing a guy a free bike every year isn't really a "team".
  • 20 6
 the answer is simple, strength in numbers. All riders should get together and develope a union...NFL,NHL,NBA,NASCAR,ETC....all have unions to deal with this stuff and to keep them safe, insured, pensioned, etc. Without a union this will just be another company exploiting the stupid and getting rich off it. And if you do not think that this company beleives these guys and girls are not dumb as rocks, then maybe its you who is the rock!!!! Alll companys will exploit the workers if they are allowed to...and before anyone says i am a socialist, can i bring your attention to VW, BP,GM, Planters peanuts, etc, etc,etc any publicly owned company is going to exploit to the ends they can get away with!!!
  • 24 3
 Redbull thinks if they start paying, FREEride will be dead.
  • 15 2
 Realistically there aren't that many riders in the comp. Its a unique competition in that its probably the most consequential of any sporting performance I can think of. It deserves a unique approach to compensation as well. These guys are literally putting their lives on the line and as stated above the go pro footage etc is all property of Red Bull. No matter what reasoning Red Bull uses for not paying every rider for appearing in this event its pretty unethical to not compensate them. At the moment Red Bull enjoys both very little risk (monetarily) and one would have to assume quite a handsome reward. Spread it out man. I would be interested in knowing the past time background of the guy who started Red Bull. Is he a gnarler or some greedy opportunistic couch potato that had a great idea? I don't know,,, but If I was in charge I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with the current set up. Maybe I just have a conscience.
  • 8 5
 But what about the athletes who are only sponsored for the event? E.g - Wil White. He isn't sponsored by any major brand throughout the whole year, only when rampage comes around (which is usually only for a frame and spare parts). Red bull have the audacity to continue to re-invite him, but are not willing to help him. They take full advantage of him wanting to get better and more well known, but won't support him in any way or help him if he gets injured. Red Bull should either invite athletes who have sponsors that are able to support them, or Red bull should support the athletes that don't have anyone supporting them. The event grows athletes names and it should have every athlete involved on an equal risk level when involving their health.
  • 18 1
 Encouraging the riders to just "ride better to get more sponsorships" is just going to push people beyond their reasonable safe limits and get somebody killed. Frankly, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already. We all want a good show, but there has to be balance and at least a financial safety net if not an actual safety net. Has there been a single year where at least one competitor didn't have significant medical bills? It's never the winners, and even the top prize won't cover an airlift and a surgery to fix a broken leg...
Redbull has the money to cover the insurance, even if it is exorbitant. Dietrich Mateschitz is worth over $12 BILLION and recently bought a $1.7 Billion dollar submarine that he keeps on his private island near Fiji...
  • 11 1
 I would think that if you're required to shoot POV footage and its required to be handed over, that makes you a videographer and at minimum and should get a minimum of a high risk videographer pay. If you're using that video for profit, than you should compensate whoever shot it.
Also, the riders build the majority of the course, with the exception of a couple large jumps/props. I wouldn't say, hey come build a UCI downhill course, race it, hand over all your footage, and if you win than I'll pay you for your week of hard work. Its not a good system. Its one thing if its an invitational, they fronted the bill for all the course prep, lodging, give you rights to at least use your footage, and you show up and race for a prize.
I agree with the insurance game too, but unfortunately its all to common in extreme sports. x-game doesn't provide it either. On the other hand, Formula 1 pays out full insurance for every event and they have a lot more to cover. So do most other automotive race organizations, as the venues require it. Unfortunately most power sport and human powered organizations don't.
  • 2 11
flag Bird-Man (Oct 2, 2015 at 7:30) (Below Threshold)
 UCI= UNION CYCLE INTERNATIONAL!!!!

MTB also needs one and the above would be taken care of! ^^^^^^
  • 18 19
 No one is forcing these riders to be there! You don't want to risk the injury then don't ride it! Simple.
  • 9 5
 That's the attitude that has spurred this conversation...^^^
  • 21 4
 If anything the sponsors themselves should provide insurance because the sponsored rider is technically a company representative at the event.

Red Bull before all the NBC and video rights nonsense, sponsored the Rampage event from the beginning. They're a big reason why it ever came to fruition. Ultimately the riders know exactly what they're signing up for and just like every other very dangerous freeride event before (Chatel, Monster Park, etc.) its up to the rider to decide how much they want to push themselves and how much they want to risk. At Rampage, this is in their hands more as most of their line is determined and built by themselves. They're not doing it to put on a good show for Red Bull, they're doing it for themselves or in some cases, for their own sponsors/career. IF Red Bull is actually responsible for a rider's injury due to negligence of course design (say a poorly built pre-made feature) or poor on-site medical response, its possible for that rider to sue for damages but that's the only case where a title sponsor should be liable.

This is no different than the FWT where participants have actually died, and recently, at multiple stops. The ultimate choice to accept an invite or to qualify to compete is on the rider. I'd love to see the rider's sponsors step up with insurance coverage but for some, that's simply not the reality of the situation and never will be. The most realistic change would be a deeper payout. I mean with all the millions they spend putting this thing on, they can afford an extra 5 grand to pepper the final's list with.

I think we're forgetting that these athletes are not mindless dumb creatures that do an event's or sponsor's bidding at every chance. They do have a CHOICE and most of these people are not competing for any other reason than having the honor to be part of such a legendary event and the exposure that comes with it. These riders competing want to push themselves or they want to win and that's how its always been regardless of the POV rights or how much the payout is. Some of these riders do the same or equally as gnarly shit for filming, that's just how they are. Saying they should be provided insurance is a nice gesture but at the end of the day, this sport regardless of what you choose to do, is inherently dangerous, we all know this and have known this and an event's sponsor should never be responsible for the actions of the participants. They're only responsible to showcase what happens at the event and to minimize the risk as much as they reasonably can. Since they're the reason why the event is even taking place, there should be zero gripes about what they do or own (POV footage for instance)... although I find it to be weird if a rider cannot use their own footage at any future point in time, if that's the case.

That's just my onion though.
  • 8 2
 If Redbull forces the competitors to sign away their GoPro data and their likeness, then their should be a boycott for next years event until they pony up some of the earnings to the riders and change their rules. This isn't a nonprofit event, right?
  • 5 0
 Where is the FMB in all this? They help organised event, it's part of their calendar... They're just sitting in the shadows on this one
  • 8 5
 @scott-townes Regardless of whether it is something that some of the athletes would do for no money the "If you don't like it don't do it, I ain't paying you though." attitude is so harmful to the sport. It is not an option for a top freerider to skip rampage. If Andreu or Aggy were like "I am not doing rampage this year, the reward is not worth the risk." which would be a completely fair the backlash on pinkbike and other sites would be huge, their sponsors would be incredibly unhappy with them and, if they were one of the riders competing for the FMB world title they would lose out on the points for that. Remember how uncomfortable Pilgrim looked a few years ago when he was going for the title and had to do rampage but the whole time looked like "I like to ride dirt jumps, why am I here?"

At the end of the day, without the athletes there wouldn't be an event and, because there is no option for the athletes other than to ride and accept the crappy pay (even the winner is disgustingly under paid, never mind the guys in 10th or 20th spot) it isn't going to change and that sucks. They do have a "CHOICE" as you so charmingly emphasised but that choice is to ride or to change careers.
  • 1 0
 Did you mean 100k?
  • 8 1
 @Patrick9-32 I completely agree but my post might have been taken out of context. Most if it is in reply to people stating that Red Bull should be responsible for coverage and I don't. The most realistic change that can be made is a deeper payout to at least everyone in the finals. As for insurance, I strongly feel the sponsors of the riders should cover that and for the top riders like Aggy or Andreau, I believe their sponsors do help with that as they're the biggest investment for the company. In a perfect world, I feel that if a company is sponsoring a rider on a world class stage, they should be covered as that rider is technically a rep. of that company and is giving that company a whole lot of exposure by doing so. However for say someone like Wil where that's not happening, no one is forcing him to compete. He's doing it because he loves it and the top riders are only where they're at now because of a shared passion for pushing themselves and the sport... regardless if they had great sponsors or not.

The backlash you speak of, I feel, is highly overstated. The backlash facing a sponsor or company for forcing a rider into a very uncomfortable position where that rider faces high consequences would be big as a business decision and a PR one. What's worth more to the sponsor? A rider who chose not to be injured and not compete, or a rider who competed, got injured and cannot ride for the next 5 months? Pilgrim still had a choice to compete or not and as he showed, he took a year off to focus on other things while still retaining a fair amount of support after the fact. I have yet to see a sponsor get pissed off because a rider made the smart decision not to compete for whatever reason in such a high risk event. You can only make that statement if you actually have a rider who speaks out claiming that's what happened.

And yes, the bottom line is that freeriding was never meant to be a career and we're lucky it ever got to this point. If the risk isn't worth the reward and you're only doing it to make a living, then yes you should definitely find another career that better suits your preferences because that's an insanely bad idea. There's absolutely no shame in that because freeriding is extremely dangerous and if you do make it to that level, its because you have a deep passion and drive to be that good. No one is forcing these riders to push themselves and risk their lives, only they have that power.
  • 7 0
 venues don't pay athletes. things like fmx or nitro is a touring show that has ticket revenues. HUGE difference. that's like asking F1 to pay drivers to race. Redbull is the media outlet putting on the event. pretty simple business practice. if the organizer creates an unsafe or has improper precautions for the venue/event then sure they would be liable.

i agree with paying deeper in prize money but to get that up you need a revenue stream. hard to ask for any of this when the largest viewing audience gets it all and in some cases expects it for free. FEST series. for riders by riders. not one peep about coverage there and they're going pretty damn big. RedBull media is a marketing platform for sponsors. they create the events. I'm sure there are liability release forms for all of their events.
  • 8 7
 Rampage is a rip off. Organizers making $$$$$$$$$$$. But a majority of the dudes at rampage, are paying there own way there, paying for their diggers out of there own money. Hotel's are not covered, health insurance is not covered. Many of the athletes are working regular jobs and saving money to be able to afford an INVITE, like its some type of VACATION?! At any given freestyle moto contest/show every single rider is compensated. Depending on the skill level and demand for the athlete. While bigger names in the sport will be compensated more. For example. X GAMES does this for all the sports. SLOPESTYLE in Munich 2012, every athlete who road the course was payed 1000$. Same for every moto rider (even tho the contest was cancelled), every skater, every bmx rider. Rampage brings a non-professional approach to "the highest level riders in the world"
  • 6 1
 ClarkHoward- You're comparing two drastically different events. Red Bull is an energy drink company sponsoring an event. The X Games is its own brand that's completely dependent on the high level of their competitions. X Games was always meant to be the highest echelon of competition for action sports in terms of payout and participation but even the X Games does NOT offer insurance or coverage for medical bills for the participants. Its almost as fruitless as comparing the PGA Tour to the FMB.
  • 22 2
 What does 'sponsorship' mean? The bike industry has been paying sponsored riders peanuts since its inception. All these companies know the riders are going to get hurt. It is physically impossible to race/ compete without being sick/ injured. To most companies, a sponsored rider is a cog in the wheel. Rampage is not any different than racing/competing anywhere else. Have we forgotten about the danger of racing down a rocky trail as fast as possible? How about having to do it in the rain?

Look at Rocky Mountain Bikes. Huge investment in Simmons, Tippie, Vanderham, Gullevich. And those guys have been with them for years. Racing, competing, putting life on the line. And they are still there. Why? Because RM respects and takes care of them. They treat them as professionals. They promote them, provide opportunities for them. When they are sick/injured, are still part of the team. And as they grow older are still utilized and compensated for R&D.

YT Industries is a new player with big name riders attached, most of whom have bounced around sponsor to sponsor for the best deal. The bikes are affordable. Good company to keep an eye on to see where the compromise is. Will the riders stay? Will they be taken care of? Will you be taken care of as a consumer should a problem arise?

You as a consumer can choose to support whatever you want. But pretty much everyone on this free forum forgets that. You want free high resolution desk top images. You want to watch free movies. And you complain that a base model dirt bike costs less than a top shelf pro model mountain bike. This is a consumer driven industry. Do some research into what kind of company you are buying into when you are in the market for your next frame. If energy drink companies offend you, stop drinking that stuff. If government bailout is bad don't drive a Chevy. Opinions are a dime a dozen. Think deeper and vote with your dollar because that is all most companies are paying attention to.
  • 5 1
 mr.walton is on point. get informed. talk with your wallet and if i may add... lose the entitlement mentality pacifier.
  • 1 1
 @scott-townes I was actually amazed the article made the exact same point you're trying to make now, but everyone seems to be missing that.

It isn't logical that redbull would provide health insurance. What is logical is paying every rider a fee just for showing up, and having prize money be a bonus on top of that. That way every rider is making enough money to be able to afford their own high risk medical coverage. These riders are creating content in the form of video for redbull, and should all be compensated accordingly.
  • 1 0
 Providing medical insurance or providing monetary compensation to provide your own medical coverage is essentially the same thing here...just compensation. Dosent matter what you call it or where it comes from or what catagory it needs to be labled as....
  • 5 3
 If the riders are American, they have health insurance since it is now required of all US citizens. Foreign riders will likely have a travel insurance policy, paid for by their sponsor. Making Red Bull responsible for health insurance invites all kind of liability for a lawsuit in the event of injury/death.
  • 9 1
 Why would they pay the riders when the riders keep coming and performing for free? Would you guys go to work every weekend for free? Obviously not; no one with a brain, and a half-ass desirable skillset would. Red Bull pays the people with the desirable skillsets that make them money. They pay the top riders through sponsorship and prize money, because that's who everyone is there to see. They pay the helicopter pilots, organizers, and marketing folk, because it takes experience and skill to fly a helicopter, and put together a big event. If they weren't getting paid they wouldn't show up.

A guy like Will White, on the other hand, would show up whether you paid him, or made him pay to enter. Red Bull could probably give a shit less if he's there or not, and if they don't have to pay him, why would they? If you want to get paid, there are a couple options. Form some type of union, and boycott some events until you feel you're all being fairly compensated (or more likely you realize that no one actually cares about you, and the broadcasting/contest side of the sport dies- booo hooo), Second option: be one of the best, so that sponsors actually take care of you (hopefully you're gifted genetically if you choose this one). Third option, which I'd recommend, is find a career path that interests you, benefits the world, and leaves you with lots of free time to ride bikes, then go get an education and follow said path. If the industry won't change then you should.
  • 3 3
 There is no RedBull Rampage without riders, there is no show without riders, there is no fans without riders, no sponsors without riders.. They are actors in this show and shou have profits from competiting! The risk all off this for being part of this
  • 2 0
 Id be happy to pay say £5 to watch rampage live provided
A. The coverage is spot on. Not their fault i know but clearly preventable
B. All the money people pay to watch is split between the riders. If people who make the live feed get a higher percentage so be it its an incentive for them. £5 may not make a massive difference to me, but if only 20,000 watch it thats £100,000 into the riders pockets. It shouldnt be us paying but as mentioned we dont have the big money sponsors in mountain biking
  • 6 0
 Another interesting thing to think about is other events that are even farther down the spectrum.
Take some thing like ( and I have competed in it ) BAJA 1000 or even the Dakar. Much larger events, much larger audience, sponsors, tv coverage, but ALL the participants, including top pros/teams actually PAY a ton of money to just enter, and in Dakar you have to be invited or qualify based on performance. Min $10K to do BAJA1000 and probably around $70K to race Dakar. Privateers mortgage their houses just to take part.
And in both of these races, competitors die pretty much every year/race.
So why do athletes line up to take part in these?
  • 3 1
 Passion, my dear Radek... passion.
  • 2 0
 I have competed in those types of moto long distance things ....I would never roll into rampage....its on another gnar level and one company isnt solely profiting from the event. A lot of what goes into paying for those things is the immense suport you need to haul mechanics, housing, medical and food for all the racers.
  • 4 0
 @sterlingmagnum : last baja1000 my costs did not cover any of that. In addition had to have my own crew, chase trucks, food, fuel, sat phones, trackers, organize it all, etc. I did get a $0.10 pin for finishing though. ( all worth it in my book )

As I think about all this it seems there are two kinds of events. The type where "acts" ( bands, athletes, etc ) are paid to come and do it because there are fans that are paying at the door to come see them, and the money these fans provide goes to create the event and to the acts. ( nitro circus, your typical concert, music festivals, etc ) On the other side of the spectrum you have your local grass roots race organizer that struggles and works for free to put on an event so riders can pay a small fee to race/take part in.
Rampage is somewhere in the middle as they don't have paying fans or paying competitors. I suppose if we as fans all chipped in to view our favorite athletes in the show, just like we would to see a concert, they could be stoked.

Should we put our money where our mouth is and start a fund. If you watch the rampage show, kick in money, and it all goes to the "band"?
  • 2 0
 Ha fair enough yeah its a tuff one
  • 2 1
 The event organizer/athlete relationship, simplified: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E4xXiqyEb0
  • 3 0
 Red Bull isn't the venue though. Reduce is the promoter. Look at boxing or other "event" sports. Insurance is covered by the promoter, as they are the biggest earner in the event. Better riders get better sponsors and more money-sure. Besides, until the riders stick up for themselves and demand more fair compensation for the field, who cares what we think?
  • 2 1
 bderrick you're spot on with that post
  • 9 0
 Afrer my post-rampage medical bills I went through a lot. Today I am Luckily I am now supported by a great insurance company that has the back of extreme athletes and anyone who's into adventuring! Check them out, awesome guys! www.northman.co/markymath

It would be awesome to see more athletes with proper coverage like what Northman offers, I woudlnt wish what I went through on anyone.
  • 3 2
 Redbull actually did not come up with the idea. Get your facts right.
  • 1 0
 Regardless, the riders are all rad and I would hope that without this or any other prior discussions that the riders themselves are happy with how the event is staged? Otherwise I'm sure they simply wouldn't turn up? Just always fingers crossed nobody gets seriously hurt.
  • 2 0
 Truth. I got a 1000 for being an alternate and not even ridding in the event.
  • 3 1
 This exact same debate has been raging for *decades* in cycling. Substitute "ASO/TourDeFrance" for "RedBull/Rampage" and you have the exact same constellation. A half-dozen commenters above have already hit the nail square on the head: until cyclists unionize & make a collective decision to boycott to get what they deserve, the world's biggest cycling events have no incentive to share their lucrative media rights with any of the other stakeholders in the sport.
The riders are not "idiots," too dumb to realize they are being exploited, but conversely, they are also not yet in a position to demand anything substantial of anyone (team or organizer), be it prize money or insurance coverage as a precondition to riding.
ASO & Redbull alike see riders as a disposable commodity for their spectacle. ASO is arrogant enough to say it outright "The Tour makes the champion, not vice versa." The problem in both MTB & road sport is the lack of self confidence, foresight, and cohesiveness necessary for the riders as a collective to prove to the suits that without *talent of the highest order* not to mention starpower, an event is nothing.
If the entire upper-echelon of a sport boycotts, fans know it, and they tune out.
MLB, NFL, NBA & other American bigleague athletes get it: when they don't get what they feel is a fair deal, they walk out, *as a collective* and the suits have no choice but to negotiate, because they know the truth: no Lebron, no spectators.
If the entire invite list at Rampage would stand up & say to Redbull: "no insurance, no riders" you'd better believe Redbull would find a way to make it happen.
Everyone knows there isn't as much money in cycling as in other sports, but until you collectivize and force the monopoly rights-owners to sit down at the table and negotiate how big the riders' slice will be, you will never get a true glimpse of just how big of a pie the organizers have been hogging all these years.
  • 2 0
 @Veloscente : you can't compare these cycling events to MLB, NFL, NBA. The main DIFFERENCE is all those spots are supported by fans. Fans are paying all over the country to go to the game, watch the game, etc. Fans in cycling typically pay 0 dollars to attend/watch an mtb event.
MLB sold more than 80 million tickets last year. Average ticket price for Red Socks , $50.
  • 1 1
 All spectator sports are ultimately "supported" by fans. Selling tickets does make for a bigger, richer pie.
Cyclocross events in Belgium & Sixdays events are examples of cycling events driven by ticket sales revenue.
The Tour de France doesn't sell tickets, but has the cycling world's most lucrative TV contracts. Those contracts are just as worthless as an empty stadium if the spectators simply decide an event is not worth viewing.
If the entire top 40 of both Rampage & the TdF decided to boycott the events, I wouldn't watch, nor would most fans I know.
Rampage is even more difficult to gauge financially than the TdF (where everyone knows how much the TV stations paid for broadcasting rights), but that does not mean it does not have value to RedBull as part of their action-sports brand, and that brand has become a *major* business venture in its own right, independent from the business of selling caffeinated beverages.
MTB is a rather small business as far as spectator sports go, but Redbull & GoPro are the hottest lifestyle brands on the planet, and Freeride MTB is one of the crown jewels in their marketing showcase.
If the riders would band together, and collectively demand insurance, appearance fees, and a prize purse more commensurate with their risks, better believe Redbull would make them a better offer rather than lose the image rights to a full year's worth of marketing material.
We're talking increases in the thousands-range for companies worth billions. You do the math.
  • 1 0
 "Freeride MTB is one of the crown jewels in their marketing showcase."

Somehow I doubt that. Rampage stuff goes "viral" from time to time but compared to all their other ventures, I highly doubt freeride MTB is one of their crown jewels. Red Bull is into some seriously popular stuff and they have a wide range of different pies they have their fingers in. The same goes with GoPro.
  • 1 1
 Web page for GoPro Hero4 Black: one of 4 sports depicted is MTB. Skiing & snowboarding are two more "fringe" sports that make this elite list.
None of this has *anything* to do with participation, or even spectator counts for these events.
In the world of modern media empires, "impressions" are what count. The bigger the eye-candy, the bigger the crown jewel.
  • 2 0
 @Veloscente , selling tickets of course makes it a bigger pie. All the extra DIRECT money from fans. Of course MLB, NFL, etc also have all the same mtb/rampage aspects too. ( sponsorship, tv rights, broadcasting, advertising, product sales, etc ).
What I'm trying to do is to critically look at the variables that work for those other sport athletes, and in so we can then figure out how to apply some of those aspects to mtb.
  • 3 0
 That's simple: baseball, football, golf, tennis, NASCAR, etc... they all have decades (and sometimes centuries) of HERITAGE. MLB and NFL players used to have day jobs. Golfers were no different. Even sports like F1 had guys like James Hunt, who was essentially a really rich guy who decided to be a race car driver because he had enough money, free time, and balls to get good at it (yes, I'm over-simplifying his career). Eventually over many many years, unforgettable moments, upsets, and victories, those sports, teams, and athletes became larger than life, and started getting compensated equally. Mountain biking isn't there yet. It isn't even close. Mountain biking needs to wait for all of us people who grew up riding mountain bikes to get older. We're way too concerned with getting ourselves to races so we can race, not to pay money to stand outside the tape. The vast majority of people who care about mountain biking would rather spend their weekends riding their bike than watching someone ride theirs. When enough of us start getting old and crippled, that balance might start to shift.

You can't just fast-track to pretending mountain biking matters to the masses, and tell people to pay $30 to watch a world cup stream, or Rampage, because basically no one would pay to watch (yes I know you people reading this might (news flash- you are a microscopic minority in the world of professional sports fans). As frustrating as it is,everyone needs to chill out and wait, and let mountain biking grow on it's own. You can't just look at other sports with high paid athletes- leagues that went through decades of growing pains- and say, "We're just as talented, we should get paid as much." It doesn't work that way.

It might make it there, someday, where a young gun like Loris Vergier becomes a household name in the future. More likely though it will become like skateboarding and bmx, where the sport is so over-saturated with insanely talented people, that only the few standout guys at the top of the world make more per year than the guy working the Wendy's drive thru. The main curse in my mind goes back to my first line: heritage, or lack thereof. Teams thrive off local pride, they thrive off geographical rivalries, and most importantly, they have a potentially infinite lifespan. A professional golfer even can have a successful 30+ year career. Mountain bikers, bmxers, skiers- they rarely last long enough to become a brand name. If half the players on the Pittsburgh Steelers tear their ACL tomorrow, the Steelers will still finish the season, and people will be just as excited to buy their season tickets for next year. Transversely, if Thomas Genon blows out his knee two seasons in a row and then gets a bad concussion, he'll quickly fade into the abyss. Teams get bigger and brighter with time, individual athletes get old and broken.

I typed way more than I intended. oops
  • 1 0
 When freecaster covered the world cups for free I watched them. They charged a small fee to watch the MSA world championships that Sam Hill won. I didn't pay because I'm not that bothered. Like you say I'd rather play sport than watch someone else play it. They definitely should try to do some grandstands though. Every year the rampage tickets are sold out in no time and supply never meets demand. I'm sure they could rent a grandstand or two that could be brought in on the back of a truck and taken away again afterwards. Squeeze in a couple of thousand extra people in a fifty bucks a pop... that's a bit more cash right there that could go to paying the riders. I'm no communist but I'd love to see what a mass boycott achived. My guess is, the event would get canned before the riders got paid a decent slice of the cake.
  • 1 1
 jaame- Bringing in a grandstand and finding a place to set it up would be pretty much impossible unless they moved a lot of land and thank god they don't try it. However every year there is some poor (or smart?) suckers who carry in a couch on their backs Smile
  • 1 0
 What aboutthat large flat area at the bottom where the finish area is and that big t.v.? They could find some suitable space there i think.
  • 2 1
 Its not that large after you include the food/drink setups, athletes tent/lounge/eating area, parking, heli landing area, water tanks, supply containers, keeping lanes open for motor traffic, etc. Even if they could, the people would have the worst vantage point unless they had some jumbo tron showing the runs live feed... all of which would be absurd. No, its a horrendous idea, haha. You made the hike out, you can stand or sit in some dirt Wink
  • 2 1
 I would rather the owner didn't flat out more land just for more seating where seating is never expected unless you're close to someone competing, a builder or a competitor yourself.
  • 2 3
 Rampage has never been about big money pay outs, it's where the hardcore go to push the sport of DH. Obviously the riders don't care whether they get paid or not, because every year Rampage keeps getting bigger and bigger. An guess what, the same thing will happen next year! As long as riders continue to show up and perform at the insane level they do, Red Bull nor Rampage will change. If riders were really concerned don't you think someone would've stepped in an hosted there own event in the same area? The only people complaining are the ones not riding the event!
  • 1 0
 @OFF2theGYM - I thought Rampage was Freeride? Or is it now considered DH
  • 2 0
 All this discussion boils down to the question of general health insurance. And yes, here too, everyone taking part in this totally insane high risk sport should have an insurance and longterm support by a special risk sports fund or something. It should not be just a smiling sunnyboy show where noone really cares...
  • 91 4
 all the guys at mx freestyle tours get paid, nitro circus get paid. redbull isnt short of cash, show some love
  • 27 2
 Agree. Heck, the PGA tour pays every single player who makes the cut. For the 2015 PGA Championship the 77th place player got $17300. Rampage is a 'made for TV' event with invited riders. Basically, if you get invited to go to Rampage or earn your spot, you've already made the 'cut.' And I would guess that the amount of money brought in by the event is greater than that for a UCI event.
(Sorry for bringing up golf.)
  • 20 1
 The funny (sad?) thing is that the guy operating the camera out of the helicopter gets a big bonus for the risk he's taking.
  • 22 0
 So the photographers get paid for their photos but the riders don't get paid for the gopro footage they have to give to Red bull. What a load of sh!t.
  • 3 4
 Nitro Circus athletes generally only get payed if they do their tricks, they get nothing for just showing up.
  • 5 17
flag norcal77 (Oct 2, 2015 at 7:03) (Below Threshold)
 @brad Walton I hope I get a chance to slap you in the face personally someday
  • 15 3
 Looking forward to it!
  • 5 2
 brad Walton I hope I get to shake your hand personally someday. (perhaps after you take my picture where it looks like I can actually ride a bike somewhat decently. hope your photoshop is as good as your pic taking skills...)
  • 8 3
 You guys act like the riders are being forced into this. They have the option to go to helicopter school, or film school, or get good at a sport like golf that actually pays. They chose a fringe sport with little to no compensation, unless you're at the very top of the talent tree. No one is asking them to go to Rampage, they volunteer.
  • 5 5
 wow. its amazing how little some of you riders want your own idols to be reimbursed for putting their lives on the line. popular sport, well viewed and under funded. you cannot compare "most" events or sports to RedBull Rampage. I think we all appreciate RedBull backing mountain biking....but are they backing mountain biking or are they taking advantage of these riders? Think of the pressure the riders(kids 18-20's) get to show up for these events. Nationally televised? UCI isnt nationally televised and the money is there. RedBull knows they can put on this event for cheap and get huge gains in exposure from a group that has no union and isn't well represented. So many of my friends that don't know jack about mountain biking have seen the RedBull Rampage. RedBull knows these guys and their brands want the exposure and they know a lot of these riders would be ass out of they got seriously hurt. Its a unique problem that deserves and unique solution, but when half of their own fan base doesn't care about their future, health or wealth....why should RedBull?
  • 3 5
 I didn't say that I didn't WANT them to make money. I said that as a business like RedBull, if the top athletes in a sport are willing to put their health and safety on the line for free because they deem the publicity and notoriety of the event makes it worthwhile, then why in God's name would you just hand them a free portion of your profits out of your own pocket? As an act of good faith/charity? Good effing luck.

If you want them to get paid more then send them some cash over PayPal. That's essentially what Red Bull would be doing by paying the riders that are willing to show up and throw down for free. The only difference is that Red Bull has more money than you.

The athletes are the ones devaluing themselves by agreeing to perform for free, but the athletes aren't publicly complaining about their compensation, so perhaps they're perfectly content with their salaries and lifestyle. Just seems ridiculous for you as a person on a free website, who watches an event on a free stream, to complain that the company that organizes and streams the event doesn't compensate the athletes enough; especially when the athletes aren't even themselves complaining.
  • 1 0
 Nitro Circus and golf have the luxury of big TV contracts which makes it possible to pay the athletes. Freeride MTB comps have nothing like that.
  • 1 0
 Rampage has never been about big money pay outs, it's where the hardcore go to push the sport of DH. Obviously the riders don't care whether they get paid or not, because every year Rampage keeps getting bigger and bigger. An guess what, the same thing will happen next year! As long as riders continue to show up and perform at the insane level they do, Red Bull nor Rampage will change. If riders were really concerned don't you think someone would've stepped in an hosted there own event in the same area? The only people complaining are the ones not riding the event!
  • 2 0
 yeah shit, what was i thinking, people who enjoy their jobs always work for free.......
  • 1 0
 People who want something that they do for free to become their job need to 1) build enough interest in it that they can 2) refuse to do it until said interested parties are wiling to pay them to make them do it.

You could be the best milk carton stacker in the world, and love every minute of it, but that doesn't mean you automatically are entitled to be compensated for it. If no one cares, no one is paying money, and no one is making money.

Yes, 100% of people who watch Rampage care about biking. Unfortunately, 100% of people who watch Rampage equates to about 0.0001% of people who watch ESPN. When I say no one cares, I don't mean no one here. I mean no one in the real world.
  • 66 2
 Just googled RedBull net worth:

"At the release of our 2012 World's Billionaires list, Mateschitz had an estimated net worth of $5.3 billion, a fortune amassed solely from Red Bull. The company now has stakes in two soccer teams, Red Bull Salzburg and the New York Red Bulls, and Formula One squad, Red Bull Racing.Oct 15, 2012"

Paying these riders shouldn't be a poll question on a bike site.
Waaaaaay behind, Redbull
  • 5 2
 as much i as i hate to go all "social justice warrior" redbull really should be paying the riders. i assumed that all riders go paid and the big winners walked away with the bonus, anything else doesnt make much sense, as the centers of attention arent getting paid, yet everyone else is
  • 6 0
 I think to many of you are confusing redbull's value as a company for what they make off of an event. As much as we all love Rampage, it's still just a commercial for redbull. It doesn't reach the masses like car racing or soccer does. I'd guess that for 95% of the country/world, catching the replay on nbc on a Saturday afternoon would be pretty unlikely. Unless you sought it out.
I'm all for riders being taken care of but have to agree that it's something to work out with their individual sponsors.
  • 1 1
 oakley. too oakley and eyeglasses and more, its a HUGE conglomerate. they have stacks on stacks. they can afford giving all riders 10k
  • 1 0
 RedBull has become a pretty interesting business model: big event organisation without any responsibility.
  • 56 5
 All the competitors should just roll down, one of them do a small no-hander and share the prize with everyone. This should serve Redbull a lesson.
  • 26 1
 This probably wouldn't work well with redbull sponsored riders. But you've got a point.
  • 41 4
 #GETRCTORAMPAGE
  • 6 1
 Before he starts a union
  • 5 5
 Who's RC??
  • 4 2
 Richard Cunningham. The author of this article.
  • 2 1
 The author of the above....
  • 7 0
 Every time I see people like Matt Wragg or Levy commenting I imagine they get to see who neg props them, and then they secretly ban them from pinkbike. idk just a random thought....
  • 3 0
 @dropoffsticks I think you might be on to something. Sadly...you will now be banned by the illpinkinati. We will miss you!
  • 25 2
 How aboot riders get royalties every time a clip of them is used on TV or online, similar to musicians or writers???
Prize purse for the winners an royalties for all competitors
Step up redbull

We all know that rampage would still happen without sponsorship

Oh, and ALL entrants should have FULL medical regardless of anything
FULL f*ckING MEDICAL
  • 2 1
 Rampage never happened once without a title sponsor... Seeing how the new site is on private land, yeah actually they need a lot of money to hold the event that only a big title sponsor can provide. There's a reason no other Rampage-like event took place when Red Bull decided to "permanently" shelf it from 2005-2007 so I'm willing to wager that if they pulled the plug, it would be done unfortunately. Red Bull sponsors the event, that's all. Its no different than any event that's taken place in the past 20 years.
  • 1 0
 I'm sure Red bull wouldn't show any videos then of pov footage if they had to pay royalties...it's all about $ for them.
  • 2 1
 Like redbull can't afford it?
They run TWO F1 teams... And the rest!

When a song gets played on radio or a TV ad for instance. The artist get pennies, if even that. An redbull can't afford it?
Nah I ain't buying that

An I think we all agree on the medical cover.
  • 1 0
 nojzilla- It doesn't matter if they can throw extra money into it, its whether or not the higher ups are willing to invest. Since that's not how it normally works in the industry, of course they won't opt into that. They're a business. If you don't like them, don't support them. Easy as that.
  • 2 0
 Never have never will. But The question today isnt aboot me drinking redbull. Its aboot all rampage riders getting thier dues
  • 11 0
 A lot of people complaining how much money Red Bull is making off this event. Tell me exactly what they earn by showing this event free on the internet. Rampage is a marketing expense for Red Bull. There's little to no direct income from the expenses incurred by the title sponsor. Btw I voted yes all riders should be compensated but I don't think it should be the event title sponsor comoensating them.
  • 3 1
 Yes its a marketing expense, but can you say the word "Rampage" without thinking about Redbull ???? I bet you can't, now that tells me that the event does make them a shed load of money, maybe not directly, but thats seriously effective advertising. NO I don't think everyone should be paid, riders must get a lot of chance to increase their earnings by being there and advertising themselves, YES the riders teams (where they have one) should pay them handsomely for risking their arses, and YES the Red Bull prize money does need to be a lot more reflective of the risks being taken. But i've gotta say, I still think Red Bull should get some serious Kudos for staging this event, its the one thing I look forward to every year more than Christmas !!!!
  • 5 0
 Redbull make me sick. Live streaming of Rampage for free. Live streaming of World cups and World champs for free. Paying Rob Warner to keep us entertained. Paying Dan Atherton to build Hardline and sponsoring some of the raddest extreme athletes on the planet. I notice no other main stream companies doing this. BAST@RDS!
  • 2 0
 I also vote yes, but I also feel that the tv coverage and rider interviews do a Shitty job of ripping for other sponsors. How many times does NBC interview riders and they don't mention their frame sponsor? This always shocks me tbh.
  • 14 1
 "Will ride for food". Maybe a base amount for the riders to participate, but still a price for the winner(s)?!
  • 6 0
 Right, or pay out in tiers. Basically the lowest handful get compensated a couple hundred or thousand to cover travel and lodging and bike damage. BUT, The winner take the largest percent.
  • 10 1
 Redbull conducts business as they see fit... end of story. If we don't like how they choose to conduct business we can choose not to support them. I don't understand what makes us feel we're entitled to control a private company's decisions...
  • 8 1
 i am surprised that they are not paid already! i thought they have been paid for that crazy shit that they bring. i mean they brought biking to another level, how the hell red bull isnt paying them ??? we all know they would do it without red bull or monster or whatever. but i think it's morally ethics to pay those guys
  • 7 0
 Does anybody have actual viewership numbers and revenue numbers from Rampage being broadcast on TV? Everyone is throwing out remarks saying Redbull makes huge amounts of money, but so far there hasn't been one fact supporting that. What if Rampage is actually a money losing event for Redbull and they use it strictly for extreme aspect of it. If 100k people watch the NBC rebroadcast, do you really think the ad revenue pays for the hours and hours that the heli flies during the event? How about all the medics that are there? Do they need to lease the land? Permits? Ticket sales are super low, they don't sell anything there so retail revenue is non-existent.

Funny how all the people that are bitching are the ones with no skin in the game.........If the riders think they all need to be paid and Redbull doesn't, then why do the riders show up year after year?
  • 7 1
 If the riders accept these conditions then they must do so for the glory and the fun and the challenge even if there are huge risks involved. This leads me to conclude that there must be a tremendous passion involved. Which prompts the question: why don't the riders set up their own big mountain contest free from red bull with rider/spectator judging, their own conditions, their own venue etc. Just like the FEST Series which as been a huge success. There will be absolutely no problem with getting another title sponsor if needed.
Really, what does Red Bull actually do at these comps other than provide a name?
  • 3 0
 Fest series doesn't create exposure like the redbull events. Not at all. It is an event for downhill nerds. Sponsors and riders always try to reach the biggest audience possible. And with rampage being aired on television, not even on a small channel, it is the biggest opportunity for everybody. If you want to ride for one of the big companys and have a good income, rampage is the event you must not miss. And the industrie does not really care about a few hundred downhill bikes being sold by the fest series. But they do care about maybe a hundredthousand hardtails... sold to completely new customers who watch rampage on tv. I don't think it is that easy to find another sponsor who knows how to create exposure like redbull does. And that's because it is all they do.
  • 1 0
 They allow us to watch for free
  • 8 1
 Eveybody there (excluding spectators) gets paid except the people who nobody would even be there without...f*#ed up IMO! Pay them Redbull!
  • 5 0
 I think it depends whether rampage is an entertainment show or a competition. If it is a show sure they should get paid but I would argue that it is a competition and that the idea that they could walk home with nothing pushes the riders and creates the atmosphere. Plus their sponsors should be shovelling them the dough for representing their bike. The riders definitely shouldn't be out of pocket though and crashes should be covered by competition insurance.
  • 1 0
 why can't it be both?
  • 9 4
 I'm so sick of redbull. They me tons of money selling us something that we don't need. They do throw some kick ass events but they don't give a crap about the athletes, just the performance. Use use use. The stair chute in China and the red Bull hardline are both examples of them pushing the athletes to go big without any concern for their safety. Unrealistic expectations in my opinion. I saw some guayaki Yerba matte at crank works behind the drop in box. Hopefully we can get some healthier sponsors that want to know the athletes and want to make lifelong business partnerships. Right now they are just abusing us and selling kids liquid death
  • 1 0
 Yeap
  • 2 0
 Red bull stair chute was hosted by Red Bull China. Which is a completely different company from Red bull. Think full Chinese knock off.
  • 5 1
 The riders get paid for film segments which in essence is putting on a show. At rampage they are also putting on a show. Therefore they should get paid a portion of procedes. However it being a contest there does need to be a reward for the winners. Red bull is making a shit ton of money off of these riders so it would be nice of them to compensate everyone fairly.
  • 9 3
 I think all PB users should be compensated too, or at least everyone who has written some comment here. After all there is no show without us.
  • 6 0
 You aren't getting paid to comment on here? Bummer for you.
  • 4 0
 Regardless of whether they should get paid and given insurance or not, Red Bull would not be able to actually purchase health insurance for riders because the risk is so high. Insurance companies would view it as too risky Also, riders get paid for riding already. I think insurance and money lies in the hands of their primary sponsors. Doing competitions is part of doing their job.
  • 7 2
 Everybody needs to just stop bashing Red Bull. They are the reason we have Rampage and many many other extreme sport competitions. Too many of you take this for granted. Thank you Red Bull.
  • 3 0
 Sorry dude. Thanks to the riders, the sponsors of the riders
  • 1 0
 I wasn't talking about the riders. I was talking about Red Bull- a company that has stepped up to the plate and promoted extreme sports like no other company in history. I'm thanking them for using their marketing funds for our little niche sport. And yes they do it for a profit. That's what companies do.
  • 6 1
 I love watching Rampage and agree that all riders should be paid for riding it, the level of riding and risks involved are just insane.
  • 4 1
 Why is this only brought up for rampage . The World Cup guys only get paid to perform .pay outs are not handed out al the way down the line . Lack of purse money has folded a few race series based on the fact riders where not getting paid to risk it all . It's all for the glory and not the money . Big cash is nice benefit for the talented right riders that can use there skills to make money . Contingency programs like they have in mx is the only way to get people paid all the way down the line. But even then it's from the riders sponsors not the event promotors . red bull has factory riders that are paid by them . I don't see red bull offering out show up money to big riders that are not on there program. Mountain biking is a industry like any other . People at the top people at the bottom
  • 1 1
 But the World Cup riders aren't responsible for building 3/4 of the course with their own team of people. I understand that's part of the appeal, 'build what you want to ride', but it requires bodies and time and a lot more chances of bike damage without the level of sponsor turnout/support that you get at a World Cup event were you can walk over to the RockShox booth and pick up a fork.
  • 1 1
 Plus the world cup doesn't make even a 10th of the mainstream revenue and TV rights that Rampage does. It is not really comparable.
  • 1 0
 Yes but do you know what I cost to travel the World Cup circuit . Rampage is a weekend in one location . Travel the world on your own dime . and only get cash if ya do well . It's called Being a privateer ,you gotta earn your cash . Lots of respect for the guys out building and hucking at rampage .
  • 3 1
 As it's basically a huge promo for RedBull all riders should be paid as 'performers' IMO - I worry about these big RedBull events, I like the think all the riders are there because they really want to be, not just because they need the profile to keep riding without a day-job. Kelly McGarry's crash in China being case in point, the guy luckily got away with pretty minimal injuries relative to the size of the crash - but it could have been much, much worse for the sake of what was a giant add for sugar pop and the advents seem to be getting bigger and bigger. One day someone is going to die at some crazy one-off event for some energy drink promo, maybe not a MTBer, but they keep raising the bar...
  • 4 2
 This will probably be an unpopular opinion but it's my take on things. Do I want all athletes to get paid and medical bills covered? Of course that's a massive yes. However this is the equal pay arguement wearing a different mask. Redbull, Trek, Specialized, *insert multinational corporation name here* spend money on basis of percentage return. The money allocated as prize money, sponsorship and support is based upon how much they see their investment being rewarded. When you compare how much money Semenuk makes for Trek compared to what someone at the top of the TDF does, he gets paid as a percentage. Once again, I think these guys are massively undervalued, and a bit more cash influx is desperately needed. We can't demand what we dont supply.
  • 6 0
 I agree with a bit of what you're saying.

For example I don't think Red Bull is really coming away from Rampage with some massive profit. Same goes for the World Cup events they sponsor. Part of me is just glad they're willing to sponsor the events at all. If Red Bull didn't put on rampage, I don't think there'd be many companies lining up to sponsor it after them. It costs more money to put on these events than people think and what they get coming back is mainly just advertisement to:

a. mountain bikers who watch the event / whatever other people know about and want to watch it online
b. the people who might see the a video clip from it on youtube/on a talk show/etc.
c. the people who see it when they play it at 4 in the afternoon (not exactly prime time) or whatever it is on nbc months later.

as well as money from the people who buy tickets to come watch.

A fair amount of viewership obviously but you can't compare it to Nitro Circus live or the NFL or supercross, all filling up stadiums selling tons of seats and, for most of those events, broadcast time.

Of course I'd love to see the athletes get paid a lot more, I just think there's more too the argument than saying "Red Bull is greedy" and "they have so much money they should give the riders some".
  • 2 1
 i did a car commercial once... it advertised a car and reinforced the brand of that car... the entire production was a cost and generated no income on it's books... i still got paid a buttload of money... and money was made down the line for the company in increased goodwill that likely generated sales... it was fair...
  • 4 2
 I literally don't believe that the rider's are not being compensated for their travels, food, etc. from Redbull. So this is the one event each year that is the most dangerous, yet riders aren't getting insurance and taken care of by Redbull. I highly doubt it. Huffington post is that you?
  • 6 0
 Riders should always get paid... they ARE the show
  • 2 0
 siempre!!
  • 4 0
 I don't think they HAVE to compete if they compete they don't get robbed and they are not exploited they are only doing their job
  • 3 1
 Here is some industry insight that most people do not know. Look back at past Rampage podium pics and you will see that no one is holding up checks.

Why?

Because the Rampage is one of the most popular and most streamed Action Sports events on the planet, and they are embarrassed about what the prize money is for the athletes.
  • 2 2
 good observation!!!!!!!!!!! I cant believe that Redbull does not pay sh!t. Even first place $ is only enough to cover expenses, build crew expenses. I think everyone should start a new contest here with sponsors that have a better risk/reward scale.

Standing on the Rampage podium with the free sandwich Redbull gave the riders is a better representation of the minimal pay riders get!
  • 2 0
 It's really not all that different from monster trucks, where the drivers are paid a flat fee to show up and perform. The better drivers make more money via their sponsors, merchandise sales, etc. Seems like a similar flat fee could be paid to Rampage riders. There could still be a separate purse for the podium, and the top riders will still get paid more by their sponsors, but a flat fee would at least cover the competitors' costs.
  • 6 1
 Pretty lame that Redbull keeps the Gopro footage. That's how we market ourself and earn money.
  • 2 0
 Yeah it is. But if they post it you will get considerably more views than if you post it. Plus last year they made insta video's for the riders run that was emailed directly after them about 5-10 mins after the run.
  • 1 0
 Yes but you don't get the money out of it. That event cost a lot to enter. Every dollar you can take back is worth it. Anyone can edit his run in 10min and post it.
  • 4 0
 All riders who qualify for the final should be definitely be paid. Riders should also be paid for any of POV footage that Red Bull uses if they're in the final or not.
  • 2 0
 Should all competitors be compensated at Rampage?

Should on-site spectators get free drinks?

Should we feel guilty for staring at the screen and saying "oh shit" whenever a rider crashes, all the while happily grabbing some more chips?

OF COURSE!
  • 2 0
 I think it would be safe to say that most if not all of the riders are factory pros. That being said, most bicycle companies provide insurance for their workers. Then why aren't the riders, as "workers" or representatives of the "company" being insured? RedBulls part is to put on the event and to reward the winners. If the bike companies don't insure their riders then they shouldn't be allowed to compete.
  • 2 0
 It's the Red Bull(Trademark) Rampage. A giant advertisement. All of the actors should be paid. I buy the sh!t because they sponsor this type of thing. If they want me to keep doing so, they need to take better care of the participants.
  • 2 0
 Yeah they should, American football, Rugby League, Formula One, and Rugby Union are all dangerous sports which pay athletes to compete and bonuses for winning. Indeed look at one of the first ever professional sports, Rugby League, the very reason it turned professional was because serious injury would prevent the players earning money in their day jobs. The rampage is currently an amateur sports event with a cash prize. Luckily for most competitors it is watched by enough people that the majority of the competitors are supported by sponsors. But then so are many rugby league players.
For a one off competition an appearance fee seems most sensible. For a series, which I think rampage could easily deliver, perhaps three or four stages around the world, Then a contract of for each appearance could be the way forward. This would help local hero types (Wildcards) to enter with out the backing of a big sponsor.
  • 2 1
 I think the whole ethic of a competition like this is that fortune favours the bold. It's an opertunity for the very best in the world to attain possibly the sports biggest accolade.
Yes red bull make the event happen but like every other cycling event who gets paid just for entering a competition?
That said because of the nature of the contest surely some medical coverage should be standard?
  • 7 1
 The Rampage is an invitational event, you don't 'just enter', Red Bull asks you. There is something very backwards about an event where the organisers specifically seek out the entrants they see as the world's best, then ask them to perform for nothing.
  • 2 2
 If your a professional athlete, its up to you to seek health coverage, buy extra insurance, get some obummercare if usa citizen.
What do privateer racers do in any motorsports, esp privateer supercross/motocross?
  • 2 1
 @Fix-the-Spade that's a very good point. Besides there is nothing to say that paying all of the riders a base prize of say 5-10 grand, up to a winner of whatever the prize is, does anything to take away from it being a competition.
  • 4 0
 The reference at the end to a music festival is such a good analogy - all riders should be reimbursed for the efforts
  • 3 0
 Yeah, pay-up Redbull...based entirely on the assumption that the internet always tells the whole truth and nothing but the truth...
  • 1 0
 Make it a graded system. Lowest in points gets $1000 and it goes up based on positioning, so the winner still gets the most. This way if ya crush it helps a "little bit" and if you don't well its a s#$t ton of beer that night!
  • 3 2
 Too complicated...
If everyone gets paid, then imagine how many people would want to join...
If Red Bull comes up with a scheme of pay-per-view from the POV fottage, this could act as an incentive for people to take uncalculated risks expecting a higher view rate and thus higher compensation
If everyone gets paid the incentive for the top performes is diminished and thus the show will lose part of its "push the boundaries" mentality
I don't think that the primary reason for people joining Red Bull Rampage is the paycheck
Insurance companies do not insure people for competing in events where there is compensation.

Still not decided on what would be best...
  • 1 0
 NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL (and many other organizations) players have insurance.
Heck, a college baseball pitcher can have JUST HIS THROWING ARM insured for MILLIONS just in case he gets hurt before he can move up to the pros and make millions by playing...
  • 1 0
 I know - and totaly agree... Still it was here on Pinkbike that I had read about Red Bull Rampage riders not being covered by any insurance...
  • 2 0
 Josh Bender, would never expect a check for doing what he loves, but if someone is going to make money on this, don't you think the riders risking there life should get something?
  • 3 1
 I think Red Bull should pay every competitor a fixed amount to cover their costs, acomodating non sponsored riders to attend and potentially gain sponsorship. Sponsorship and prize money would then be a wage.
  • 6 1
 It'd probably cost less than an hour of operating their F1 team.
  • 2 1
 I don't think it's just the insurance/medical costs, entering Rampage is the combination of a lifetimes work that will be showcased globally. For Redbull not to pay all expenses: bike, flights, accommodation plus a wage for literally putting your life on the line is a disgrace, especially when Redbull thinks nothing of paying 6 million dollars for an F1 engine.
  • 2 1
 they totally all should be paid for helping put together this once a year amazing show. hockey players get paid huge monry regardless if they score or not or even play much so why shouldn't mtn bikers at least get a little cash for putting on this show digging a line working their ass off then pushing their limits no matter where they place in the standings
  • 2 1
 I think redbull should provide at the very least partial insurance, some kind of base pay to all of the riders participating, and then depending how they perform from top to bottom, are then paid accordingly. Red bull has the money to make that happen.
  • 4 3
 Fact- Red Bull is an evil corporation. Like all evil corporation they only care for profit. Yes they have enough money to pay for footage, insurance and prizes but that would cut in to their profit. Who drinks their crap anyway?
  • 2 1
 i must say that watching the rampage (and im a t.v director in my everyday work) brings out the old rome arena ....who will crash ?who will live?
now we all rode dh we all crashed and i personally find it hard to watch...i can feel the pain and its a little hard core ...for me ( i broke a few parts in my riding years...)
i know it's live broadcast and it is part of the game like a good reality show
however i feel sympathy for those elite riders that risk themself for breaking the borders...
  • 1 0
 In the grand scheme of Rampage expenses it would probably be easy to pay each invited rider $10,000 to come to the event and higher payouts to the winners, like $50,000 for 1st. The question is why doesn't this happen?

The riders are getting paid in exposure. They'd love to get paid in cash, but instead they are willing to pay to come instead of staying home, and Redbull knows it.

I'm not saying it's just, but the riders are betting that their performance will pay off in the form of a raise in pay from sponsors, new sponsors etc.

Just the mention of Will White here is proof, because without Rampage most would never have heard of him. Unfortunately, he hasn't done well enough with that exposure to get sponsors to pay him. McGarry did the opposite, maximizing his exposure.

Until the top riders are in enough demand on their time (events, commercials, video shoots or just risk/reward) that they choose not to come to Rampage cash payments probably won't happen.

You don't see many DH racers there because it's not worth the risk to their livelihood. If the prize was $1,000,000, you'd probably see a lot more people want to compete.

Most of the guys that do compete would otherwise be digging jumps or "zones" for video shoots or for fun because they chose the sport separate from it's salaries.
  • 3 0
 The riders should get a cheque and medical insurance if they get an invitation. Red bull is making the money from athletes risking their lives. Pay up or fuck off.
  • 1 0
 Are all the riders not given endorsements by the companies that sponsor them? That is payment...If you don't go all out, you lose your endorsements. I think the sponsors should take it into their own hands, if they aren't already, to compensate their rider's for injuries.
  • 1 0
 Redbull Rampage is obviously like no other contest with higher risks then ANY free ride contest out there. Clearly the riders sponsors should be taking care of them whatever. but the article makes a great point about how the crashes and gnarly spills add large viewing value. A weekend of insurance would be perfect for the riders so they can be covered with any bad spills not only that but there probably would be even more gnarly riding if the riders were all covered by red bull on insurance. winners get the paycheck but for a contest like this there should be some minor form of compensation even if it is just insurance.
  • 1 0
 Redbull Rampage is obviously like no other contest with higher risks then ANY free ride contest out there. Clearly the riders sponsors should be taking care of them whatever. but the article makes a great point about how the crashes and gnarly spills add large viewing value. A weekend of insurance would be perfect for the riders so they can be covered with any bad spills not only that but there probably would be even more gnarly riding if the riders were all covered by red bull on insurance. winners get the paycheck but for a contest like this there should be some minor form of compensation even if it is just insurance.
  • 1 0
 Well, the name Matt Hoffman comes to mind. A man who pushed the boundaries to build his own brand. But on the opposite side of the coin are NFL athletes who had to unionize because they were ending up broke (literally and figuratively), and sometimes dead, while the league made billions of dollars off their backs. I think its fair to say that as revenue increases, so should compensation.
  • 3 0
 Only a fucking idiot do nothing douche would think that an athlete who risk their life shouldn't get paid! They deserve ironclad insurance and event pay!
  • 3 0
 that's a lot of comments. Seems to me the public has spoken. What's the response? I want to hear an official statement from red bull.
  • 1 0
 The fact that we're even having this discussion is crazy to me. Take a look at the NFL for instance. Is there a single athlete in that organization who isn't getting paid? Imagine if at the superbowl, only the winner, runner up, and 3rd place (theoretical) got paid and everyone else got nothing. Are mountain bikers not professional athletes? We, as a geneal community need to step up our game. We deserve more then what we get. Our riders and professional athletes deserve better. We need to demand more. Tell me, what do we get out of these contests? Next to nothing compared to what the big wigs do. In what world should we have to hand over OUR pov footage? The only way we should be required to hand it over is if they supplied the camera and paid the rider to wear it. If you are a professional level athlete, you should be hired and paid like a professional athlete deserves to be. All it takes is a unanimous protest and boycott to a couple large scale events to get the point across. Our riders deserve more. Our sport deserves more. We need to support our professional riders.
  • 1 0
 Couldn't read all the posts due to time constraints but has anyone mentioned that the riders create a *GASP* Union? All pro sports have players unions that represent the collective interests of the players. A "Riders Union" would negotiate on behalf of all riders bare minimums in compensation, insurance, etc. Just hard to get a bunch of freeride rag tags to organize I guess, like herding cats...
  • 1 0
 IDK if it should be "they all get paid" because on the one hand it shouldn't be about the money, it should be about DH lovers doing the most attributed thing in the history (i hope at least) of DH.

HOWEVER, it's ridiculously dangerous and redbull should compensate riders for that, because they should be grateful people are even willing to enter such a crazy tournament anyway, and I imagine they make a fairly hefty sum of money, however I have no idea on how tickets are concerned work. I think all revenue from it goes to the riders, and should be fair apart from podiums of course
  • 1 0
 Shut the F Up! or don't. Watch it or don't. Ride in it or don't. Chose your path and your battles. Red Bull has "natural" flavors in it that derive from things like beef trype. Im not going to drink it, but I damn sure am going to watch retarded individuals, in there retarded race next week. That shit is awesome!
  • 1 0
 Yes, all competitors should be paid fairly, if that means there is a base pay for participating, and an increase is given to those who qualify for the various tiers of competition. The biggest, overall winner would obviously earn the most money. This system would lessen the financial burden experienced by the teams, but it would also incentivize the athletes to do better than their peers in order to make more money.
  • 1 1
 MTB is a sport where it's easier than most others to break bones, your neck in particular based on how easy it is to go OTB. So i reckon even a small sum, but if the winners won a bit extra, would make it more of a job and less of a random hobby.
  • 1 0
 Per capita mtb is nowhere near the risk of breaking bones as other lame sports. Like gymnastics...
  • 1 1
 no doubt.. pay up... i once did a redbull event and was treated very well and got all expenses covered... but not paid a fee to start... this was for a TEST event... sad to hear that a major event like rampage is not paying riders and crews, because clearly they know better... I was talking to one of the riders who has ridden some FEST events and that for/by riders thing has a lot of potential to be done correctly and offer both fans and riders something special as well as become a business model that shares the resources and profits equitably and builds value for everyone... its obviously needed..
  • 1 1
 I think the riders get there money from the sponsers and may they have a deal with them anyway in which case they get more money. at least every rider shoud get an insurance by their sponsors or FMB, Redbull or what ever. There are enought good examples how this problem coud be solved (FIS Skialpin etc.) - just my opinion
  • 2 0
 Limit the entries, by having some sort of contest or elimination process, keep the top 12-16 and everyone remaining gets paid.
  • 2 1
 Football players still get paid or don't win a title, why should mountain biking be any different? Riders still have bills to pay, familys to support, and it's also their job.
  • 3 0
 And while they pay the riders, they should change their drink from tasting like cat wee to something better!!
  • 1 1
 It's been fairly true throughout history that individuals on their own are relatively voiceless and WILL be taken advantage of by those in power. If riders are upset about their compensation, which I think they are (and justifiably so), it does make me wonder why they haven't organized themselves into a united front. With the world's most elite riders being a relatively small group, you wouldn't think it would be so hard to organize a "union" of sorts to get the compensation they deserve. I also agree with the point made about royalties for the use of their videos/photos.

On the flipside, it really does show how much the riders care about the actual sport and the achievement more than the money. You don't usually see such admirable priorities in the elite sporting world!
  • 1 0
 All riders that get filmed should get a percentage of the profits for the event. It doesn't have to be a huge amount but it's unfair to expect riders riding at an invitation only event to pay their own way.
  • 1 0
 is there any other subset of mountain biking where all competitors get paid just for competing? not that i don't think they should but how is this any different than the WC or a national series?
  • 1 0
 Not disagreeing with you, but it's invite only (not public, like WC or national series) and it's documentation is sold to TV and used in Redbull ads all year.
  • 1 0
 Redbull should pay there insurance for the week. Just giving everyone a paycheck I'm not so sure about. Sounds like my nieces school where everyone wins so there's no unhappy kids.
  • 2 0
 All the Competitors should be insured. At least top ten should receive some form of pay out. Top 3 should get more than they do now.
  • 1 0
 Well this is the same discussion on micro-level, what the discussion about medicare/medicaid is on macro-level:
should everyone participate in a general health insurance?
And the only rational answer is YES.
  • 5 1
 Norbs got robbed!
  • 8 0
 No, he didn't have any cash to be robbed of.
  • 5 1
 Cheque not check!
  • 2 1
 No winner without a loser. So they should all get paid, but symmetrically. DNS does not count but DNF does, in case of multiples in order of injury. Midpack gets a beer.
  • 5 1
 Riders got robbed...
  • 2 0
 The riders are the ones providing the entertainment, therefore they should receive some of the loot.
  • 3 2
 Is red bull making money off rampage? Yes they are......so why should these amazing athletes be slave to their profits. Pay daet men his money - teddy kgb
  • 3 0
 Free will. Slaves do not have free will to choose an action with known outcomes/risk (death)
  • 3 0
 Insurance should be provided for ALL participants.
  • 3 1
 No one is forcing these riders to be there! You don't want to risk the injury then don't ride it! Simple.
  • 5 2
 Pay the riders and the builders. Also insure them. Or I'm not watching.
  • 4 1
 You'll watch and you know it
  • 1 0
 I tried to watch it once..got through a good bit but the announcers were too brutal...I mean who hasent seen the clips but watch the whole thing?
  • 3 1
 they MUST get paid, and insured. Problem is, riders must act for themselves, no pay, no insurande, no show.
  • 3 0
 Most riders get paid by their sponsors but yes redbull should contribute
  • 1 2
 What about a crowdfunded effort, that clearly lays out how much the top ten would make? I'd donate to that, as I get to see the athletes perform for free as it is. This would be an effective way of the viewers paying the athletes directly. Cut out the middle man (corporation).
  • 1 0
 Standing on the Rampage podium with the free sandwich Redbull gave the riders is a better representation of the minimal pay riders get!
  • 2 0
 Yo redbull i'll ride for free, I'm sure i'll even crash and break some bones so you will get good ratings.
  • 1 0
 Just some background info on the insurance side for Rampage riders I wrote: www.pinkbike.com/news/risk-vs-reward-contest-insurance-2014.html
  • 2 0
 Insurrance payment is responsibility of red bull. They're making money with the athletes adm they don't give back
  • 3 0
 I agree riders got Robbed
  • 2 0
 I think Red Bull should have medical coverage for all the competitors, no exceptions.
  • 2 0
 1000%! The media makes bank off the riders why shouldn't they be able to make a living on what THEY'RE actually doing
  • 2 0
 If even soccer players get paid, rampage riders should be rewarded at least double...
  • 1 2
 This isn't as simple as "Hey, Red Bull needs to pay these athletes for risking their lives" There is a lot more to it. Sure, Red Bull makes a ton of money but they aren't so rich that they can just blow their money away like toilet paper.

If Red Bull compensates for Rampage athletes then they would have to do so for every other event they sponsor.

Also, no athlete is forced to undertake this event. They all agree to it. I'm pretty sure they are well aware of the dangers they face.

I believe that any pro athlete that wants to do an event like this should have insurance. I believe the top 5 should be compensated...first place getting the most $$$ paid for by Red Bull.

It would be nice if their sponsors paid them a little extra for participating in this event but that should be written in every athletes contract from the beginning.

So, just because Red Bull makes a lot of money doesn't mean they can just carelessly spend their money. A company has to thrive and survive...business 101. Already, Red Bull does a lot for extreme sports I don't believe they should be condemned because they are not compensating all of the participating athletes.
  • 1 0
 You guys really want to send a message....stop buying RedBull products. Hit em where it hurts $$$$ the only thing corporations understand!
  • 1 0
 Just pay them no excuses, "no monkey bizness" they all deserve for the risk that they are about to take, in their name and in the name of the sport.
  • 2 0
 I can't get over how much madness I perceive in these Rampage photos. Way more provoking than the videos.
  • 2 2
 If they'd get insurance companies involved next thing you know everything will get dubed down and needs a safety inspection before a rider can hit it.
  • 2 0
 I'm trying to imagine an insurance adjuster riding a Redbull course... "mind your pocket protector sir, Dropping in!!!"
  • 3 0
 Cover their beer fund
  • 2 0
 Curious of the candid responses of all of the competitors on this one...
  • 2 0
 A tier system payment seems reasonable for advancement to next level.
  • 1 2
 Hey, if PGA golfers can get tens of thousands of prize money for finishing 50-somethingth place at a golf tourney, don't ya think these guys should get some cash for putting their entire careers on the line? Hells yeah!
  • 2 0
 Where does that money come from to pay them? The PGA/NBA/NFL make millions bc there are millions of fans watching. MTB doesn't have fans except on the internet.
  • 1 0
 RED BULL. if they have enough money to do all the shit they do, and own 2 formula one teams, and a formula one track, helos filming helos in videos, and sending people into space to skydive. Red Bull should provide the monies.
  • 5 2
 Capitalism at it's best!
  • 1 0
 Bingo
  • 1 0
 I think that all riders should get paid but the winners get paid more, purely because they earnt it
  • 1 0
 If everyone that watched worldwide payed $2, I'm sure that would cover the costs.
  • 2 0
 Why is this not an issue with events like crankworks.
  • 1 0
 Great idea. Red Bull, supoort the riders with insurance! It will encourage crazier riding!
  • 2 0
 shameful question of course they should get payed
  • 1 0
 For sure if Red Bull release rampage DVD'S and they are part of the show for sure they need a Compensation
  • 2 1
 Just have it in Canada! FREE HEALTH CARE!!! Smile
  • 5 0
 If your not Canadian, its not free. I know from paying my Canadian hospital bills.
  • 1 0
 They should definitely take home something for the time and risk.
  • 1 0
 HoT Topic! Ya Think!! "Red Bull Pay up!"
  • 1 1
 if redbull is making you pay to watch this crao they better be paying the riders
  • 2 0
 more prize money too!
  • 1 4
 I have insurance, I CHOOSE to rise my bike in dangerous places at dangerous speeds amd I occasionally get hurt. But the fact is I CHOOSE to do these things. Just like the riders choose to participate in Rampage. They build their own line to their ability and style. If they thought they couldn't do it they wouldn't. This shows as riders have changed lines last minute due to prevailing winds and dangerous conditions.
Every part of mtb is dangerous but it is calculated risk (or should be). These riders aren't dumb. Give them some credit for the decisions they make.

If you are partaking in any dangerous activity with no insurance sorted, off your own back or your sponsors, you my friend are an idiot.
  • 1 0
 Yeah they should get paid.
  • 3 2
 The bums lost!
  • 1 0
 You hear me Lebowski?! The bums will always lose!!
  • 2 4
 Why should they get paid? Only winners should get paid. It's called losing for a reason. You shouldn't get paid if you're shit on a bike.
  • 1 1
 It's invite only, ya old git. There is no Sh!t-on-a-bike involved.
  • 2 2
 How about profit sharing?
  • 2 2
 Norbs got robbed! (Someone had to say it)
  • 1 0
 Absolutely!
  • 1 0
 Wait.... They don't?
  • 1 1
 No fuck the bunch of idiots. Clown biking, end of.
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