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Pinkbike Poll: Do You Care About the Carbon Footprint of Your Bike?

Oct 29, 2021
by Seb Stott  

Recently Trek published the first-ever sustainability report from a major bike brand. A third-party company (WAP Sustainability Consulting) audited Trek's emissions and estimated the CO2 that's generated when making of a number of Trek's bike models.

Unsurprisingly, they found that e-bikes had the highest manufacturing emissions (around 229kg of CO2 per bike for the Rail) and that carbon-fiber bikes created more emissions than alloy ones. As an example, the highest-spec Fuel EX with an alloy frame produces ≈120 kg C02e, while the carbon-framed Fuel EX creates anywhere from 175 kg C02e for the base model, up to ≈225 kg C02e for the top-tier Fuel EX, which has a lot of carbon components alongside a carbon frame. To put that in context, 225 kg of CO2 is about the amount it takes to drive a typical US car 560 miles.

While we should take Trek's figures with a pinch of salt, and the exact numbers will be different for other manufacturers, this report gives us the best indication yet of the climate impact of making our bikes.

The question is, do you care? If more brands made such estimates and made them public (assuming they were accurate), would it change how you buy bikes?




If the carbon footprint of a bike was printed on the box, would that affect your buying decisions?




380 Comments

  • 290 5
 I care, but not enough to buy a "green" bike i don't want.
  • 342 37
 I care....but if PB cared, it would scale back the eBike promotions. Use an E-Bike to replace a car not a bike. Trek's Rail edit yesterday in front of glaciers was something.
  • 123 3
 Here is my order of importance:

#1: Function: Will the bike meet my needs (parts, goe, travel, etc. )
#2: Price: Can I afford it, (has to be more expensive than my car, but not too expensive to reduce my food budget)
#3: Is the bike ugly or not
#4: Carbon foot print
#5: Rarity of the bike, I don't want everyone to be on the same bike as me
  • 74 131
flag conoat (Oct 29, 2021 at 12:57) (Below Threshold)
 @abzillah: move #5 to #2 and kill #4.....that's me
  • 25 0
 @conoat: dudes got cash to burn
  • 45 4
 There is a Lily Allen song that says:

"And I am a weapon of massive consumption
And it's not my fault it's how I'm programmed to function
"

My personal take is; better to have one or two bikes that I actually ride, than five or seven "green" bikes that I will hardly ever use (which doesn't necessarily mean that the only bike I have cannot be a "green" bike).

Can we fix climate change? www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiw6_JakZFc
  • 45 15
 @SATN-XC: this may come as a surprise to you but there are certain places where people use eeeebs to ride from home to the trailhead, ride trails, then ride home eliminating the use of the car and riding mtb at the same time. I dont own one, but I can certainly see situations where they would be a great addition to the quiver.
  • 18 2
 @VPS13: true, someone said this below as well....all for it when their use takes a car out of the picture
  • 90 5
 @abzillah: No way, Bro!

#1. Brand Exclusivity - Will this bike allow me to feel superior to most of those riders who pass me on the trail?
#2. Suspension Travel - Does it have at least 20mm more travel than I need? People in the parking lot have to believe I can shred.
#3. Colorway - This is often the most difficult. Any bike I ride HAS to pop with my PBR riding kit and look just right in the back of my Taco!
#4. Price - Is there room on my credit card?
#5. Carbon foot print, soot print - I recycle those PBR cans, so leave my bike the hell out of this!
  • 15 0
 @VPS13: You forgot about riding to the pub. Thats what most of the ebikes in my area are used for.
  • 8 5
 Greta's bike, though! bit.ly/3cRcweQ
  • 4 3
 @dllawson819: I'm feeling triggered...
  • 14 1
 @jomacba: if the jorts fit…
  • 8 0
 @conoat: Eat your dead then, no footprint to care about.
  • 8 0
 @abzillah: I'd add: How much better is it than my current bike? That's been my struggle. Is the new bike $6,000 better than my current bike?
  • 162 20
 I think it's important to understand the narrative that has become quite prevalent over the past decade or two; that we, as individuals are responsible for climate change; "how about you buy a new electric car, a new low energy fridge, or a "green" mountain bike. Stop eating meat or turn off all your lights. Because shifting responsibilities from the largest carbon emitters, to the average person, us, and not the major industries themselves. Is much easier to do than solving the problems. There's an extra bonus if solving rapid climate change sells a new product. If you don't have the time or money for these things, you should feel bad. Ironically the concept of personalized carbon footprint was popularized in a 2005 ad campaign by BP oil...

Asking the average people to solve the problem breaks down when we look at it at scale of the problem. personal contributions toward reducing greenhouse gases are nice, but they pale in comparison to the systemic realities of global emissions. In 2020 during the pandemic when travel and consumption as a whole was limited due to lockdowns, the total CO2 emissions were only reduced 7%. If today going forward you eliminated 100% of your carbon foot print for the rest of your life. You would save 1 seconds worth of emissions from the global energy sector (source OWID, 2020; Climate Watch/WRI, 2020).

TL;DR: The personal responsibility angle is over played. For systemic changes in technology, politics, and economy we need to influence the people making these important decisions. When our governments, and local politicians are reluctant to change laws that effect their biggest tax contributors or campaign donors we need to vote them out, vote in people who respect science and hold them accountable for implementing the most effective climate change strategies. Not waste our time with banning plastic straws to be used in plastic cups.
  • 3 3
 @SacAssassin: the smart ones save the battery for the journey home…
  • 24 0
 @recon311: Reality is they all save the battery for the trail and drive the ebike there on the back of a truck.
  • 3 0
 @SATN-XC: YES YES YES
  • 5 2
 @dllawson819: That's the beauty of spandex!!! That being said, spandex is a privilege, not a right!
On a serious note, whoever downvoted my comment, I was obviously joking. Now people are offended at people pretending to be offended.
Interesting times we live in... very interesting.
  • 23 22
 @brycepiwek: whataboutism and finger pointing.

Climate Change is a human problem, all of us. Governments, corporations and legislation is all a reflection of ourselves. Big emissions and environmentally damaging practices result from our demand for more and cheaper stuff.

We should all be doing what we can wherever we can to dobour fair share of solving this problem.

Ultimately, it is us who have to pay for all this. This act that if Governments made laws and carbon costs more stringent on big evil corporations and that everyday people shouldn't or wouldn't feel the cost is a fallacy.
  • 11 3
 @brycepiwek: This guy with the truth bombs. Systematic problems require systematic solutions.
  • 13 5
 @VPS13: the vast majority of Emtbikes are driven to trailheads, then ride on the trail and then driven home...
  • 38 3
 @VPS13: I’ve even heard of people riding human powered bikes from their house to the trailhead, riding trails, then riding back home.
  • 21 10
 @brycepiwek: Sorry, you fit it backwards. Of Courage, it is much more comfortable, waiting for governments and large corporations to initiate change - having to do nothing personally but cast your vote every few years.

But that’s not the way it works- if anything is to change, it will only happen, if everybody sees what they can do on the lowest, on the personal level. If you change every aspect of your (consumption) behavior to a responsible one, that will in turn change the rest of the chain.
  • 9 0
 @conoat: That's why you ride a Santa Cruz covered in Hope parts then? Original...
  • 3 0
 @dolores: I knew it was this video before I click. Vote wisely, telling your child you're sorry won't be enough.
  • 10 2
 @SATN-XC: Mining lithium is so much better for the environment....
  • 14 2
 @VPS13: this may come as a surprise to you but there are certain places where people use NON EEEBS to ride from home to the trailhead, ride trails, then ride home eliminating the need for EEEBS and riding mtb at the same time.
  • 13 0
 @Ktron: I should clarify that my statement was not to say our individual choices make no difference whatsoever and therefore we are devoid of taking any personal responsibility… But also thinking our individual choices are the entirety of the solution is just as much of a fallacy; ie how we get our electricity (hydro, LNG, wind, solar, coal, nuclear) is decided on by government and policy and most importantly your ballot. Changes via policy, while harder to initiate. Are going to be infinitely more effective long term.
It’s also easy to forget that the majority of people who have the means to make “greener” individual decisions live in 1st world countries which only accounts for 15% of the worlds population. In most of cases the other 85% don’t even have any other options than the one they already have.
  • 15 13
 @agrohardtail: Sometimes I wonder what people expect you to do with money. lol. Like, is it going to make me happier when I am dead? Money is what I got in trade for a portion of my life(time). I will be damned if some wanker on PB will shame me for spending it on shit I want(largely out of jealousy I presume).

Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to go buy a carbon ebike so that my other carbon bikes can have a robot overlord. lol
  • 5 11
flag conoat (Oct 30, 2021 at 2:22) (Below Threshold)
 @notthatfast: ride? naw.....that thing mostly just sits around looking pretty. I mostly ride a Mondraker covered in XX1 and I9 parts. lol
  • 2 0
 @conoat: oh no, I totally agree with you. It's your bike, spend as much as you please on it. So many people get caught up sh*tting on other people's bikes.
  • 5 8
 @agrohardtail: ah, yeah. I wasn't directing that at you....more the mental midgets that I offended by daring to have different priorities than they believe I should be allowed to have! lol
  • 4 0
 @FuzzyL: as I hoped/expected @brycepiwek didn't mean that individual choices don't make a difference (vide his really good points in the 2nd comment).

Assuming you are reasonable about your diet/travel/energy consumption in general, spending your time/effort on changing the policy (which, in democracies, can be done through educating other people) will have better effect than micro optimisations of your daily routines.

It's really easy to miss the forest for the trees and become a self-righteous f**k using CO2-eq as an excuse to look down on others.
  • 7 4
 @brycepiwek: so give up as individuals trying to do what we can and don't try until the man does? Bit defeatist, but anyway on another note from other comments why are green bikes somehow ugly or unrideable? Doesn't green just mean during production the impact is assessed and reduced where it can be or offset somehow? The starting step is understanding your impact and acknowledging it. The second step is finding out what can be done to reduce it while building a fun awesome arse product that will sell. The third step is building it. None of those steps is make an ugly arse useless bike that ticks green boxes. What company wants to burn cash.

We have a responsibility, collectively the we as companies have a responsibility and if governments are whinging and bickering and too slow to act we are. Whether climate change is real or not, by reducing our impact we live in a cleaner world and have a healthier environment in which to have fun!
  • 2 0
 @brycepiwek: Thank you for that!
  • 4 2
 @rbreish: along with copper and rare earth metal. If people really cared about global warming they'd ride their bike to the trails or at least a small vehicle. I see an awful lot of trucks and vans with only one person in them.
  • 6 0
 @eweiter: Shocked how close the total commute times were when I tried it both ways, when factoring in loading and unloading the car and parking.
Not worrying about mud after winter rides is nice too.
After switching to faster rolling tires I've been mostly riding to the trailhead lately.
  • 5 0
 Since 95% of my riding I do from the house these days, I feel like I make up for whatever carbon was used to make my bike. Over its life cycle, it’s one of the greenest things I own and use for fun. If you are driving in a gas guzzler 30 minutes to the trailhead daily, that’s going to be way more of a footprint over the life cycle of the bike.
Skiing, however, is the reason I really should have an EV.
  • 16 3
 So there aren't many environmental warriors on PB, only social justice warriors as far as I can tell.
  • 5 0
 @mikedegen: I'd like to upvote this comment several times, but it only let's me do it once.
  • 3 0
 @mikedegen: lol truth!
  • 2 0
 @Hayek: Guilty! Smile
  • 4 0
 @mikedegen: Reddit and PB comments have a lot in common...
  • 2 0
 I don't focus on the CO2 for the production, as I see a bike as something that brings back CO2 in total. If anything a bike should have it's focus on comfort and it's fun factor: The more you love/enjoy your bike, the more often you grab it, the more CO2 you save.

What I do take into consideration is how well which parts can be recycled. All the illegal dumps in Asia and Africa have become completely out of hand and I want to limit my participation in the growth of these illegal dumps.
  • 1 0
 @JezzaE: Just stumbled upon an interesting article - www.bbc.com/future/article/20211025-climate-how-to-make-the-rich-pay-for-their-carbon-emissions . What I might be forgetting (or ignoring) is how our individual behaviour might affect people around us and, in turn, the policy. Applies even more to celebrities and what they do is influenced by what their followers want.

Was a bit sad to read that "the increase in people buying SUVs last year effectively cancelled out the climate gains of electric cars"...
  • 1 0
 @maddcow: While I am sure that the article is true, pointing fingers at eachother will not make the situation any better. If you want change, you always have to start with yourself.
  • 1 0
 @SATN-XC: I'm worried about when the novelty wears off or e-bikes die and there are millions and millions of discarded e-bikes in the land fills. How is that good for the environment?
  • 3 0
 @mikeyb76: E-bike motor technology/firmware/evoloution will create mountains of obsolete wreckage just like all the bricked Teslas.
  • 1 0
 @maddcow: thanks for sharing. Is a more complicated issue than just all individually making a change as i kind of alluded to. Article points to the need for those in power to lead. Hmm...

An eye opener about the SUVs for sure
  • 135 13
 No, if the emissions of producing my bike are less than driving a car 600 miles, then it doesn't matter to me. YES, we should care about Co2 emissions, but if a bike I'm going to have for five years is less than I drive in a week, then that doesn't make a difference in my mind. Also the amount I drive in a week is jack-all compared to how much major corporations put out. It seems like maybe getting China to cut back on how much coal they burn is a way bigger problem to face than how much Co2 is produced with a bike. I'm glad Trek is addressing this, and when the bike numbers are in the millions, it makes a difference. But I think the burden of cutting Co2 emissions should like with the corporations, and not be something consumers should have to think about.
  • 49 4
 I think this is a classic case of voting with your wallet. The individual decisions each of us make aren't a big impact, but if it shows the manufacturers that people care, they will do what they can in time to meet the customer's expectation. No one of us is going to fix this but even if 20% of manufacturing made an effort, it has meaningful consequences.
  • 28 14
 China is on the renewable energy bandwagon, expanding faster than we are last I looked.
  • 5 0
 @DHhack: They're really desperate for any energy. Can't really blame them as a growing country, but still: www.nytimes.com/2021/10/28/business/energy-environment/china-coal-climate.html
  • 19 2
 @adrennan: exactly. Most people will care about emissions up until the point that they have to take a second hand bike or an 'inferior' product. it's no secret that cycling is by and large a rich mans sport, and despite what ever narrative is given about ecological impact consideration, most rich people don't care. Their hands don't match what their mouth is doing. See Leo DiCaprio sailing a mega yacht back and forth between Key West and NY to pick up his buddies for lavish parties, then making documentaries about global climate change. At the end of the day, nobody wants to be inconvenienced in their comfort so they continue to be a part of the problem and demand change from others.
  • 13 2
 It is like:
- people lets ban plastic straw and go vegan
- then serve food in plastic plates wrapped in plastic bag with can of soda
  • 14 0
 @Caligula1620: I'm not sure I would put together "rich because bike" with "rich because mega yacht", those things are miles apart, but you're edging into the real problem: the people who are positioned to drive actual change are more interested in securing profit (i.e. the legitimately rich), which is so beyond terms of 'comfort' its laughable (unless someone can justify earning multiples of millions year over year). Just look at what's going on with Exxon right now. Cyclists being greener ain't gonna change shit in the grand scheme of world economies.
  • 24 1
 Yeah, China burning coal,… to make your bike
  • 38 14
 Can't stand it when people blame corporations. Corporations wouldn't exist without us buying their stuff. This is on all of us, blaming it on corporations is a distraction.
  • 5 3
 @HaggeredShins: I'm not saying they have the same net impact, I'm saying it's similar behavior. analogies are a beautiful linguistic tool I'll not stop using them!
  • 17 24
flag Caligula1620 (Oct 29, 2021 at 13:44) (Below Threshold)
 @rickybobby18: "blah blah blah blah" Greta Thunberg.
  • 7 5
 " But I think the burden of cutting Co2 emissions should like with the corporations, and not be something consumers should have to think about."
The problem is we buy what's glamorous and convenient. There are alternative options to almost every aspect of modern life but likely you won't want to embark on them. Blaming corporations is the easiest move but it doesn't mean it's right.
  • 18 0
 As long as some people say "Manufacturing isn't the problem, it's China", and other people say "China isn't the problem, it's manufacturing", then neither Manufacturing or China need to change, they just point at each other too.

We can't control China, but we can control manufacturing. If we make manufacturing change (and all the other things we can control) then eventually we just have the bad corporations and bad countries left. Nobody will want to be part of the bad club at that point, because by us all having acted on this this stuff world opinion will have changed. Politicians won't be able to take those donations anymore etc.

The mistake is thinking we don't make a difference here, we do. We can inflict death by a thousand cuts on every one of these corporations who pay lip service to climate change by just not buying their stuff. Power to the people!
  • 6 6
 @Woody25: hot take- they're both to blame. and ourselves, so we need to hold ourselves accountable which will impact the other two.
  • 5 0
 @Caligula1620: Couldn't agree more! And actually, to a degree, I'm wrong about China, we can just stop buying stuff that's made there.
  • 9 0
 @Woody25: in recent years, I have put a big effort into supporting more local manufacturing for bike parts where possible. There is some great stuff being made closer to home and when parts aren't being shipped all over the world to assemble a frame, it will inevitably help the impact on the environment of that bike. In addition, most western countries are going to have tighter rules and regulations on the manufacturing that does happen in terms of environmental impacts. Nice bonus is that you are supporting people making real wages and the people who enjoy your trails.
  • 9 3
 Ah yes point the finger, that'll help everybodyBig Grin
Ever wondered why China burns so much coal? Perhaps it's because of all the cheap products you enjoy.......
  • 14 1
 @Woody25: Part of the real problem is how we calculate economic growth, profit, and GDP. Most economic theories have bogus assumptions whereby natural resources and environmental impact are considered limitless and not actual costs (many economic theories are largely fabricated pseudoscience to support exploitation eg. neoliberal economic policy and factor proportions theory). The GDP economic model of considering growth actually encourages waste. However, if the limited natural resources and environmental impact (as well as externalized costs onto workers health and safety etc) were accurately accounted for in estimating economic growth, we would likely have very different economic priorities. Under these new priorities the principals of capitalism or market based economic totalitarianism (China) would likely change as well.

All impacts at reducing emissions are important, but it is hard to see meaningful change without a paradigm shift that many countries seem unwilling to embrace.
  • 5 0
 +1. Big choices matter so much more than the footprint of my bikes. I have only 1 kid rather than 2+, which makes a bigger long term impact than going vegan and never buying another bicycle in my life combined, and by a lot. I live close to work (and not by accident) and bike commute on top of that. I chose to live in a moderate climate with light heating and AC usage, likely offsetting multiple carbon bikes a year compared to living in the desert heat or the northern wasteland I grew up in.
  • 4 0
 @DHhack: The difference is that we're already expanded far surpassed China...they have a sh8t ton of catching up to do. Last time I was in China, I didn't see the sun the entire time...as a matter of fact, the only time I saw the sun in 6 years of going to China was when I took a weekend trip to Hong Kong....in the meantime they are still building coal plants.
  • 2 2
 @SDGRYDER: no argument from me. As you know, the advantage over there is that when a decision is made, they do it.

www.upstreamonline.com/energy-transition/green-leap-forward-china-boosts-renewable-energy-capacity/2-1-1047867
  • 6 2
 Far too many people in the USA are not trying to fix the world's problems, but are trying to get rich enough that the world's problems don't apply to them.

Mexico could heal the Narco cult of torture and death if WE would just stop buying their (increasingly Chinese precursor-based) drugs. I'm not sure exactly what China's plan is unleashing an apocalyptic wave of nearly free fentanyl, but it will eventually kill more people than Covid -19 (that's my own crackpot theory).

Please consider not buying disposable Chinese crap - as others have said, our only vote is our dollar.

Unfortunately, it seems increasing hard to dispute the equation: Human = Garbage.
  • 3 0
 @ppp9911: Unfortunately, that paradigm shift won't come until their customers are under water.
  • 3 0
 China is burning coal for our need for consumption Wink
  • 7 7
 @HaggeredShins: no one needs to "justify" what they EARN. the only justification anyone needs to be making is that of the tax collector....they should have to justify the reasons for stealing from you and me. I haven't yet seen that justification.
  • 2 4
 @dennis72: china is burning coal to make our solar panels. lmao
  • 5 3
 @seb-stott can you add a fifth option please:
“What’s a carbon footprint?”
  • 2 0
 @adrennan: it's not always that straight forward. It can be better to manufacture closer to the source of raw materials and ship final products than ship raw materials and manufacture closer to the end user.
  • 1 2
 @kevinturner12: most of the bauxite comes from Africa, Australia and Brazil does it not? Most of the smelting is done in China. I wonder if the Aussies, Brazilians and Nigerians could step up their smelt game.
  • 2 0
 @kevinturner12: a couple of brands (I believe we are one and reeb in North America) are sourcing raw materials in North America and manufacturing the frames. If you are an end user in North America, you just eliminated part of the major global shipping piece of the puzzle. Yes it's one frame but if the demand shifts to that, it can have major impacts.
  • 3 3
 @Woody25: i love that people are downvoting my comment lol! that's the problem right there, pointing out individual responsibility isn't even just ignored now it's actually detested and met with scorn
  • 1 4
 @DHhack: You have to be kidding with this. You get that from MSNBC or Hunter Biden? Find someone, anyone, that has to travel to China and have them show you some pictures of any manufacturing area.
  • 6 0
 @rickybobby18:

"Can't stand it when people blame corporations. Corporations wouldn't exist without us buying their stuff. This is on all of us, blaming it on corporations is a distraction."

Yes, but consumers being accountable for their purchasing decisions depends on extremely educated consumers and reliable information being readily available to aid decision making. Most people only have high-school level education and are far too busy and too broke to really get to the bottom of, and assess, the environmental implications of their purchases. Something like whether it's more environmentally friendly to continue to run an old car or to swap to a new EV or hybrid is actually a very complex question. Does that answer change depending on how many miles you drive and where you live? How significant is your vehicle choice compared to say the clothes you wear, your electronics, the flights you take, what you eat etc.

Most people can't even be trusted to sort their trash into compost, recycle and general waste accurately.

Something like 50% of supermarket eggs sold in the UK are from caged hens. If you ask people if they support chickens being kept in cages most people would passionately tell you they don't support that - yet in the supermarket isle most people are just picking up the cheapest eggs they see and don't think twice. They probably don't even realise they're from caged hens because they don't read the packaging - they don't have the time of the brain power to sweat small decisions like that - just like they don't have the time to discern what is recyclable and what is compostable and what isn't. The same 50% of people that buy caged eggs are deciding all kinds of consumer decisions every day.

If you tasked 100 people with writing an accurate self audit of their lifestyle, how many of those people could write something good, thorough and accurate? Taking into account probably hundreds of variables. I have to work with the public every day and a lot of people have a tonnes of trouble completing a basic form.

Trek paying to do an audit like this is a great thing. I think it shows that even a Rail isn't that large of an impact and so your choice of new bicycle is probably a much smaller factor than how far you drive to ride it.
  • 3 1
 @moof123: I was reading all of the comments waiting for someone to touch on the really inconvenient truth. You nailed it. Reproducing creates another carbon footprint. Reproducing creates more energy demand. Satisfying that demand creates carbon waste. Even if you use wind, solar, hydro, etc. creating all of that tech generates carbon. Albeit less that burning coal but still…carbon is generated.

I’m not saying don’t have kids, nor am I shaming anyone that does. Just stating the fact that, a human life requires energy (food, electricity, medicine, heat, etc). Producing that energy generates waste (battery waste, carbon emissions, nuclear waste, etc). There is no such thing as 0 waste energy production. Even hydro electric takes diesel fuel to build the dam.

Now that said, if you have 3-5 kids, and I have 0, get off your high horse about my carbon bikes. I could have 10,000 carbon bikes (figuratively speaking) and still not do as much damage to the environment as having a child.
  • 4 1
 @TuTh-rider: you’re barking at the wrong side of the road. I’m not sure if you know this, but China is playing the long game. Part of that is energy production that’s tied to local sources that don’t run out, and that’s not coal, ng or oil. I’m sure you also realize that as their energy production gets cleaner the solar output will go up without any extra infrastructure or cost. You don’t think it’s a coincidence that their focus on energy production changed after the Beijing Olympics?
  • 3 1
 @conoat: it has EVERYTHING to do with how much people earn. The *vast* majority of human beings aren't in a financial position to be environmentally conscious per-decision (i.e. uncouple their survival from unsustainable industry).

The foundation of modern civilization is hydrocarbon based industry and the only people genuinely positioned to move the needle and introduce environmentally conscious solutions time over time demonstrate they're most beholden to the dollar--again, see Exxon. Profiteers of unsustainable agendas should absolutely answer to their colossal earnings, especially in energy. What do you think drives lobbying to bury environmental impacts and per your own topic, the incredible misuse of our taxes and absent allocation to forwarding real sustainability? The world is a system, you have to treat it as such.
  • 2 3
 @HaggeredShins: the world is a system of 8 billion INDIVIDUALS. we are not ants....we are humans with autonomy. to champion anything else is disgusting.
  • 2 0
 @DHhack: thats one side of the story. other would be that theyre currently building as many coal power plants as they possibly can.
  • 1 0
 @heephop: and yet it’s India with the worst air pollution in the world. What was it, 21 of the top 30 cities in the world for air pollution are in India.
  • 2 0
 @DHhack: For a short time in the beginning of the pandemic Indians could see the Himalayas due to decreased pollution. I guess that glimpse was enough because everyone went right back to their destructive ways. This is the human condition. Any of us would burn the last living tree to keep our baby/dog/cat warm. The planet has a bad case of HomoSapiens, but the good news is that it will eventually go away.
  • 1 0
 @suspended-flesh: correct.....but thta's not the good news you think it is, because the only thing that drives an apex predator to extinction is a better apex predator!
  • 2 0
 @suspended-flesh: talk about a generalisation!
  • 66 10
 E-BIKES! If you are concerned don't buy an eBike. Seriously, the batteries and motor have a bigger footprint over MTBs and what about the carbon footprint attributable to roasting through chains and cogs over the life of the bike (on top of normal wear)?!

Ebikes make sense from a carbon standpoint for commuters but not on the trails.
  • 16 28
flag sewer-rat (Oct 29, 2021 at 12:22) (Below Threshold)
 What about healthier living from getting inactive people into cycling , reduced costs on health care and an increase in jobs- neither of us are right and unfortunately there seems little balance
  • 18 0
 Uh you might want to research the strip mining process required to create lithium ion batteries
  • 42 2
 @sewer-rat: giving an inactive person an eMTB to crush the trails is only going to increase their trips to the hospital, getting an eBike for commuting or going to the store (replace the car) is the better application from both a heath and carbon footprint standpoint.
  • 7 1
 @specialk1: I believe we are in agreement and on the same side of this pointSmile
  • 14 11
 When I ride my ebike, I can often ride to my trails instead of driving my car. Honest question to the pinkers out there, how many of you drive vs. bike to your local trails? And. Would an ebike change that at all? Maybe I'm in the minority on this.
  • 7 5
 @jaywindh: that's actually a good point. As long as their use takes a car out of the picture, I'm all for it.
  • 3 3
 @SATN-XC: Ideally you get one enduro eMTB (aluminum frame and parts) and use it for trail riding and commuting.
  • 4 2
 @jaywindh: #1 reason I don't ride to my local trails is that people drive like idiots. #2 reason is a lack of fitness. If an ebike could solve reason #1, I might give it more consideration.
  • 4 0
 @jaywindh: I mostly bikepack rather than riding on trails for the sake of it. Recently I've taken great pleasure in departing directly from my house rather than chauffeur my bikes around. The last trip was 205 miles to get to a supported 175 mile ride, then I road back another 205 miles home. Only 2 of us were crazy enough do that, the rest drove/flew. Just can't bring myself to drive my bike around that much, feels wrong. Groceries are collected via my 29+ cargo bike about 80% of the time too.
  • 1 0
 @specialk1: soon to be in Nevada
  • 3 0
 @jaywindh: I wish I could ride to the trails, my nearest is 50 minutes by car
  • 3 1
 @jaywindh: sure but you still have a car right? Did you need the e-bike?
  • 2 0
 @moof123: You are part of the solution but in the vast minority, I'm afraid. T-dog is still riding the wave of resentment and fear of the Coastal Elite with their Green ideas, vegetables, and bespoke accoutrements.
  • 3 0
 @moof123: That is epic. Green and gets you legs of steel
  • 2 0
 @moof123: giga-chad behavior
  • 1 0
 @jaywindh: i dont yet drive :-) so always use my bike to get to trails (or use the train). getting an e-bike wouldnt change that at all ... what is really needed in my neck of the woods is SAFE cycle paths to get to and from trails! but councils and governments will always put the road lobby first, right? and destroy the countryside around trailheads to build bigger car parks :-(
  • 1 0
 The global semiconductor shortage doesn't bode well for ebike production in the short to mid-term.
  • 50 0
 I’m just glad someone actually used “couldn’t care less” instead of the usual “could care less."
  • 17 2
 But what if they could care less? If I care a small amount, then I could care less. If I really don't give one iota of a f*ck, then I couldn't care less.
  • 23 0
 In order of caring: I couldn't care less. I could care less. I care. I could care more. I couldn't care more. Grim Donut content.
  • 3 0
 Yeah, but then two lines later they said "fitted", so their grammar street cred is back to zero.
  • 2 0
 @LoneRiderOfTheApocalypse: Since we're being pedantic, "fitted" is a matter of grammar, but "amount of caring less" is a matter of logic.
  • 44 0
 If these companies cared about emissions they would change their business model entirely to sell you a bike that you would ride for a decade- not a bike with a different color scheme that has had its geo tweaked by .007 degrees.
  • 12 4
 I mean....no one is forcing you to buy a new one. I have a '99 S-Works in my garage I still use when riding with the kids.
  • 17 2
 @SATN-XC: You're right that "no one is forcing you to buy" a new bike. Problem is, typically after 5-7 years tops, parts are hard to find. Like frame pivots for instance. Also, the change in standards also make it quite difficult to replace parts that wear out, due to compatibility issues. So yeah.... If you ride bikes "hard", usually eventually you are pretty much forced to buy a new bike.
  • 4 0
 Your preference to ride an older bike doesn’t have much to do with the industries business model, which is highlighted time and again in data from polls this site has taken... congrats though on not being part of bike consumerism. @SATN-XC: Patagonia doesn’t outwardly strike me as a company doing this but Yvon has long been anti consumerism : "I've always felt guilty about making consumer things. So I have a sense that it's my responsibility to help people wear them as long as possible," said Chouinard, whose company once took out a full-page ad in The New York Times that said: "Don't Buy This Jacket." A nugget to ponder here.
  • 2 1
 @biketyson11: i totally agree with you...the companies would prefer it if you bought a bike every year but its ultimately on the consumer to make that purchase. I noticed Giant (and I'm sure others) stopped listing model year on their bikes....likely due to supply issues but it also has the benefit of not making someone desire a '22 over say a '21 just b/c it has a newer model year on the label.
  • 5 1
 @tmwjr777: I don't think it's accurate that you can only get parts for 5-7 years, If you bought an up to date standard wise bike 10 years ago without something weird to account for you can find parts today. I actually think it's easier today than it used to be- for instance there are aftermarket companies making fork and shock seals and most manufacturers are using bearings that are off the shelf. They've been using the same taper in headsets for a while, they've been down to just a few seatpost sizes for a while, etc. In most cases, out of date standards is just as good an excuse as any on having upgradeitis..
  • 6 0
 @ICKYBOD: getting older parts is worse now than ever- when supply issues happen, like present day, the first thing companies cut from production is older parts.... I live near a very reputable suspension shop and they struggle to find parts for stuff even 4-5 years old. Follow the $. As for bikes that are 10 years old. Try walking into a shop and getting a 26” tire let alone a wheel or hub. Online is only marginally better.
  • 1 0
 @biketyson11: Right.... This is what I'm talking about. I was riding a 2009 Intense Slopestyle up until 2019. Bike still functioned 90% fine. But the pivots needed to be rebuilt, parts were no longer available. And being a 26" wheeled bike.It was nice getting smoking deals on tires and wheels for a bit there. But once stock supplies ran out, it became harder to find stuff than ever. And it usually wasn't cheap. At some point, ya gotta just cut your loses and move on. If ya wanna keep an old bike around for nostalgia's sake, fine. But at some point it's just not practical anymore as a "daily driver".
  • 2 2
 @tmwjr777: If people keep their bikes longer then there will be demand for parts compatible with those older bikes and where demand leads supply follows because there's money to be made.

So, if more people keep their bikes longer there will be more compatible parts.

Or, put another way, it all comes down to us again to change our ways.

Plentiful supply of parts for things like old Land Rovers and old VW vans are a good example of this.
  • 1 0
 @biketyson11: I guess that's true with the parts shortage, but until last year I wasn't having any issue with an old trek al100.
  • 2 0
 @biketyson11: but I want to add- part of what I was saying is that bikes in the last few years have more standard parts. Like I was saying- I can source every bearing on my bikes rear suspension from companies other than my bike brand. They've now been making the same size fork stanchion for 3or 4 years so you'll be able to get those parts for a long time, etc. I don't think a lot of the newer stuff is as disposable as the older stuff.
  • 2 0
 I agree with you there, I think about that in many life scenarios- hard to motivate the masses, and imagine the scenario where pros lead by example on a 2018 bike, haha. That said, Peetys recent vid could have you arguing it’s the rider not the bike to a point where it might only matter to racers on the sharp end. @Woody25:
  • 1 0
 @Woody25: There are still loads of 26" bikes out there, lockdown proved that. 26" tubes are like rocking horse shit though.
  • 44 10
 Everyone claims to care about emissions until the latest iPhone comes out, or they want to go on vacation in some exotic destination. I find that the people who spout off about climate change and global emissions the most are also the people that seem to travel incessantly and always have the latest technology. It's like people who say they're not ok with drug cartels murdering people but do coke on the weekend.
  • 21 2
 Or make a banging vid in the middle of untouched wilderness driving massive SUV and full fleet of gas gussling toys, while banging on about how everyone's a monster and living un-sustainability. I dont by the brands that support that hypocrisy and self adoration at the expense of its everyone and the company's fault but not me rhetoric.
  • 8 8
 generalization is cool...
  • 8 3
 Don’t forget chomping down that tasty burger. Unfortunately the extreme sports industry is a serial violator in general. Skiers and snowboarders complaining about climate change whilst filming with a helicopter following an airplane following a skier…come on! Biking’s not much better with constant clips of guys showing of massive trucks or flying their bike to the trails on their own plane!!
  • 7 5
 @Gibbsatron: hey justify your behavior however you want just don't preach something you don't follow. If I am wrong why do so many new phones get sold and why was worldwide travel increasing yoy pre-covid? you're not different just because you think you are. sorry to burst your bubble.
  • 8 2
 "If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace."
John Lennon
  • 5 5
 pardon me! Sir, I will have you know I do my coke midweek, as the weekends are for drinking and MDMA!
  • 1 0
 @vp27: @vp27: And professional recreationalists preaching to wage slaves that we should be more environmentally conscious.
  • 19 1
 You buy bike once every few years, its not like a plastic bag or a straw you throw in to the garbage every time you use it.
I still have bikes that i bought 20 years ago and they are working.
So i dont care if production of my frame is produces 20% or 50% less carbon emission because its negligible
  • 4 2
 The tires you go through once or twice a season probably have more oil in them than all the grocery bags you'll use for a year. Most components don't come cocooned these days but theres always some plastic wrap in there. Looking too hard at anything always ends up being such a bummer because it can always trace back to an oil field, strip mine, or clear cut. So yeah eliminating the bike industries carbon footprint wouldn't make a dent. We literally need to change the world...again...cause how we're changing it now is probably not going to work out for the best.
  • 22 6
 Any company building carbon bikes (including GG) doesn't actually care about environment very much. It's just a bunch of marketing imo.

I personally don't have a problem with carbon bikes but I feel it is disingenuous for a company to claim they care about environment when building carbon bikes.

(FYI my background is in composites and mainly carbon composites.)
  • 4 0
 serious question....is the knock on carbon the inability to recycle it or is the manufacturing process (from an env. standpoint) that much worse than aluminum; or both?
  • 7 0
 @SATN-XC: People do tend to focus on one or the other but in reality it's both (imo).
  • 4 0
 exactly. All greenwashing pop marketing for sure. When questioned, it usually boils down to "well, we know it's bad but we're doing the best we can"
  • 1 0
 @SATN-XC: In the Trek report, they ascribe the greater percentage of GHG emissions to the 'requirements of carbon fiber's processing'. Takes a lot of energy to extract the raw materials and turn it into CF. Relatively less but still significant energy (heat) to bake the frames.
  • 3 0
 But if they put all the carbon in the bikes, doesnt that mean there is less to go in the atmosphere?
  • 7 5
 Is it unpopular to not believe any of these "sustainability" reports? It's way too hard to measure, and many famous people (outside the bike industry) like Al Gore who claim to be eco friendly are massive hypocrites
  • 5 5
 @hamncheez: It’s really not too hard to measure. Scientists have been doing it for ages, while politicians downplay the science. Why chastise people like Gore of all the rich people? We are all hypocrites to a certain extent, but it’s a ridiculous and ignorant statement to try blaming people that are passionate about science just because they’re rich. Only paid for politicians want people to think like you.
  • 15 0
 Can’t wait to see all the people virtue signal about having an aluminum bike. You are all such stewards for the planet.
  • 12 0
 On a related note...

TIRES > someone needs to come up with a way to recycle or resuse used / cut or worn out tires. The one component on my bike that generates the most waste by far are tires. In NW Arkansas I'm lucky to get 4-6 months use out of a back tire (and 10-12mo for a front)... and often during a bad luck month I'll slash a sidewall or two. I probably go through 10 MTB tires per year on average... nearly one per month.

If there was a local place to bring my old tires (a shop, a recycling center, etc) I'd take time to drop them off. As it is, I have a pile of spent tires in the shed that I just don't have the heart to dump in the landfill. Any ideas?
  • 1 0
 That’s a lot of tires. What’s your go-to combo and widths?
  • 1 0
 @ddeme: Here in Nwa I’ve settled on a couple combos that work well for my riding. For my full sus I usually run an aggressor or dissector rear (2.3 /2.4 exo+ or DD) and DHF or Assegai 2.5 front (exo+)

For my SS, I run a rekon 2.4 rear and dhr2 2.4 front. Both exo.

Ive also had good luck with e13 trs race tires in 2.4 > the rubber compound is excellent

When these wear out I want to try specialized ground control grid t7 and butcher t9 grid… they’re a bit more affordable and available compared to maxxis currently, and I keep hearing good things.
  • 2 0
 Tried taking them to a car tire retailer? They recycle car tires...
  • 2 0
 @mobiller: I’ll see if any tire shops around here will take them- thanks for the tip!
  • 13 0
 Would be cool if brands encouraged people to hold onto their bikes for longer.
  • 6 0
 Yup probably the most meaningful impact on carbon footprint. spec'ing more reliable parts too
  • 10 0
 It think it's also important to mention here that cheap components that break more easily use similar resources to nicer components that last much longer. I'm willing to bet that Chris King hubs are far and away the best hubs for the planet when properly serviced... namely because most people that own them run them for like a decade. Compare this to cheap OEM hubs that last 6months but use a similar amount of materials. I'm willing to spend more money on something that will last longer, as an additional way of helping the planet and making my riding experience better.
  • 9 0
 As I understand kids and their slang these days: (WAP Sustainability Consulting) doesn't sound bike related. And I guess if I were down to a few bikes and I liked them all equally, eco friendly would sway me. I certainly wouldnt buy a worse bike to get my eco card. I might consider spending a moderate amount extra for a greener option within reason.
  • 10 2
 I care, but the impact of a bike vs so many other decisions we make on day-to-day basis (eg eating plants vs meat, buying a new truck, having children) will always be a million times more important in our overall footprint. Imo if you care about emissions, those types of decisions are where you should focus your attention. I don't want to hear about how carbon-efficient your bike is when it's hanging out of the tailgate of your brand new Dodge RAM bro.
  • 13 5
 I don't follow the climate apocalypse religion, so I couldn't care less. I'd probably steer clear of a company using explicitly dirty practices, but the raw materials and manufacturing methods don't vary enough between manufacturers for me to care. I do prefer buying locally which can limit shipping waste, but even if I purchase say a REEB built down the road the odds are pretty high the raw material and components are imported anyway.
  • 8 0
 It's academic... you can't have anything in our world without impacting something else in it's life cycle, whether that is in it's production, use, consumption, or any other element of its possession ... the bottom line is it's happening and nothing is going to alter the course we're on at this stage of the game and the best we can hope for is a minor slowing of the inevitable.

7,874,965,825 humans on the planet living breathing eating, crapping, making more humans and in general consuming ~ we aren't going to stop anything as exponential growth feeds the velocity at which we're moving towards that inevitability.

Soooo... go ride your damn bike and do the best you can on all the rest and f*ck it ~ even if you're not a dentist buy something you'll love and enjoy and use while you still can.

((Ain't I just a sparkly sunshine rainbow unicorn blowing buzz kill))
  • 7 0
 If you care about the environment you would get a MTB and not an E-mtb if you can. the co2 figure is for the production of the bike but think of the impact of all the charges that battery will need the over its lifetime. As for the e-mtb Vs car to trail head argument remember this most people who ride e-bikes need them because there too unfit or injured to ride a normal MTB so chances are they will always choose to drive to the trail. At my local trails nearly every e-mtb arrives by car/truck dies 1 lap of an 11 mile track then promptly gets put away and driven home. It's crazy.
  • 7 1
 I’d just like the absolute smoke and mirrors dropped, I feel the the way they spin it is poor as ultimately it’s from incremental gains and bullshit consumerism, AND I’M f*ckIN GUILTY OF IT and not proud to admit it. Why designers can’t design a platform for 7-10 years for future proofed products is beyond me
  • 1 0
 Its not profitable, thays way
  • 1 1
 Guerilla Gravity gets pretty close in my opinion, I don't own one but I think I'd like to.
  • 6 0
 I still have my 1994 GT Corrado, but my 2007 Trek Fuel EX9 (bought used from my bro) became my primary bike in 2013.....still riding it. So when amortized over these kind of time frames, IMHO, zero F*&!#'s are given. If you buy a new bike each & every year, then it's a whole different deal.......I've put over 12,000km on the Trek in that time, plus whatever the bro put on it prior to me....
  • 3 0
 You get an upvote from me just for the Corrado. I had a 94 SLC about 15 years ago. I still miss it.
  • 3 0
 @Rich-Izinia: Rich: Hate to burst your bubble, but my Corrado is a Mountain Bike, not a VW. It was a 2 year only model, and I'm fairly certain that VW got their lawyers to prohibit GT bikes from using the Corrado name.
I tried to buy replacement decals for mine when it was still fairly new, and was told they were not availableFrown
Ironically, you're not the first person on PB to make the assumption.....
Cheers!
James
  • 10 5
 I don't think I've ever bought a brand new bike. Some other chump can eat the depreciation and if anything I subtract from the ecological cost of bikes.

No mention of the co2 cost of upkeep for an e-motorbike?
  • 16 1
 "buys bike new and sells for above retail due to market" chump you say?
  • 2 4
 @ridingofthebikes: that's called doing the industry, and everyone who rides, a dis-service.
  • 2 0
 @ridingofthebikes: Yep. Bought a bike summer 2020, rode the piss out of it, sold it for what I paid for it (16% under new retail a year later). Best bike rental plan ever.
  • 23 19
 No I do not care in the least and no one can convince me to care until china has altered their ways as the leading polluter of the planet. They emit more pollutants than the remainder of the world combined each year

What a joke. Why would I care? I mean FFS hahahahahahaha here we are paying "journalists" to split hairs about which bike has the smallest carbon footprint as if it matters as the megacorporations are free to pillage the world
  • 4 6
 Megacorporations make things efficiently and effectively at scale ensuring lowest cost both legacy and in the pocket. They are governed by consumers and publicly on environment and virtue signalling climate endeavors. Common market are multiply more effective and efficient than return to cottage industries and social derived "right to produce equally" production methods.
  • 22 12
 You're aware that the US is still by far the biggest per-capita carbon emitter, right? China is definitely an issue due to their growth and massive population, but to say that they need to clean up their act before us, when we have been the biggest emitter for generations, is self serving and/or ignorant.

I do agree that comparing the carbon impact of different bikes is largely splitting hairs. There are much bigger, smellier fish to fry.
  • 4 14
flag schofell84 (Oct 29, 2021 at 12:58) (Below Threshold)
 Doesnt the US military emit more than China altogether?
  • 6 3
 This is a very valid POV and can't be answered fully only looking at the numbers. You are never, on an individual level, achieve any kind of reduction in GHG that makes a drop in even one country's single energy-generating plant GHG emissions per hour.

BUT. What you espouse, ride, advocate, and essentially 'advertise' does make a small difference in terms of communication. And that spreads even faster ('virally') than any country or commercial advertising can.

Because we can't all just wait for China and India (and W Virginia) to stop mining and burning coal, before establishing a personal stake in this crisis.

(I acknowledge you said no one can convince you)
  • 11 6
 @schofell84: lol

No... China emits nearly twice the entirety of the United States. More critically though, while the US is reducing it's output both as a whole and per capita, China is rapidly increasing their output both overall and per capita.
  • 16 1
 China sends so much of what they produce here - the crap you and I buy from the corporations every day. Keep playing the blame game and nothing changes.
  • 9 1
 They are creating most of that pollution making things for the western world.
  • 1 1
 It’s all TSJINA’s fault!
  • 3 2
 @badbadleroybrown: China also has a much larger population than the United States so you need to take that into account.
  • 10 5
 @wburnes: That's why their rapidly increasing per capita output is even more problematic. Regardless, the assertion that the US military puts out more than all of China was still wildly incorrect. China puts out the most overall and they're 12th per capita, both rising. The US is second overall and third per capita but both are declining.
  • 11 4
 Blaming China requires some pretty large blind-spots to our global economic picture. China is a major emitter to be sure, but they are just a haven for US and European based multi-national corporations to exploit lack of environmental regulations, living wage, health and safety worker protections, etc to create the products that they sell which are bought by the US and European markets. Those same corporations lobby heavily within the US and EU to prevent policies aimed at global protections/environmental regulations and they also place pressure on Beijing to maintain exploitative and damaging economic practices.

Global environmental and health and safety standards for workers around the world would help to equalize the playing field AND you would see a major shift where commodities are produced (along with some big increases in the prices you currently pay).
  • 2 3
 @badbadleroybrown: Renewable energy in China. Might not be as bad as you think. It produces more electricity through renewable resources than the US. China will hit a point to where the US can no longer blame them for everything.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China#Challenges
  • 2 5
 @abtcup: lol

That has nothing to do with their greenhouse impact... if they're the top polluter and growing, and they're 12th per capita and growing, the amount of "renewable" energy they're producing isn't really relevant because they're still 1st & 12th and growing.
  • 1 4
 @wburnes: do we? did the US put all those babies in China?

It isn't that big of a deal, since the CCP and China as we know it has no more than 20-30 years left before collapse. likely less, based on the impending population collapse. They will start to see a decrease in their population, yes...a decrease, in the next 10 years. it will be accelerated after that until they have seen about a 30-35% decrease in their population. the reason is their 1 child policy, coupled with their aging population. No economy or country can sustain a contraction of their population that great. Economies rely completely on expansion(whether that is by pop. growth or growth of consumption per capita), and when there is contraction the entire house of cards will fall.

the really negative part of this is that a wounded animal is at it's most dangerous just before it dies. China will likely look to war to prop itself up as it is failing...
  • 4 2
 @badbadleroybrown: China has reduced their greenhouse gas output by 19% over the last 5 years. Where did you come up with all that? Sounds like political propaganda from our fake news sources in the US.
  • 1 0
 @conoat: They eliminated the one child policy in 2015 (updated to two) and in May of this year changed again to allow three children when the population continued to decline. I guess we'll see what happens.
  • 2 3
 @noapathy: I hadn't heard of the three, but it also is compounded with the fact that limiting children will always mean that females are, how should I say this.....de-emphasized.

China has mulitple incoming crisis' really. They will get spooky soon, that much is for sure.
  • 2 5
 @dualsuspensiondave: that's a delightful fantasy world you're living in, but you might want to stop listening to PRC propaganda and crying about US news sources and start living in reality and dealing with facts. By every measurable, China is increasing and its nonsense to claim otherwise.

www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/ghg-emissions-from-fuel-combustion-in-selected-economies-2000-2019
  • 11 3
 Virtue signaling inbound...
  • 5 1
 If you drive your "typical US car" 15 miles to the trailhead, you car will produce more carbon emissions after your 19th ride than your highly-carbonated bike did in all of its production. (36th ride for an Al bike) Assuming you ride once a week and keep your bike for 3 years, that's 8 carbon (15 aluminum) bikes' worth of emissions. Driving to the trailhead is much
more of a problem than the bike is.
Though every little bit counts, and like nutrition facts on food labels, it's great that we consumers have this information to base our consumption decisions on.

(the "typical US car" numbers should be updated for what it often really is, esp among bikers.... a Broyota Brocoma)
  • 2 0
 This, from a UK perspective, most of the UK main population centres are quite far from the best riding. While UK cars may on average be slightly smaller/more efficient than in the UK, most people are doing more than a 15 mile round trip to ride. While you're doing that, the carbon footprint of the bike itself is essentially loose change. However, of you don't drive to the trails and do use the bike to replace car journeys then even if you have the newest carbon fibre e-bike it will quickly pay for itself in emissions saved
  • 4 0
 Unfortunately I don't quite get to choose what I get in my income bracket. It's cheap aluminum bike or nothing. I still wouldn't want a carbon. Would love a crazy custom steel/titanium build.

That said, it does put me in a great position to reuse bikes/buy secondhand. I'm just not sure how that "affects the global industry" (pro tip: it doesnt) because given the inventory shortages its not like a 10% increase in buying bikes secondhand is gonna cripple the industry or something.

I think the most important thing for bike companies is not so much that they are 'as green as possible' considering how small the industry is compared to vehicles/computers/etc, but more so that they dont get caught doing something awful and blatantly illegal. Whether that's a green thing or not. Such as child labor/slave labor/etc.

When I buy a bike from Taiwan or from a trusted manufacturer elsewhere, I feel like they are making a solid product and have faithful employees earning a wage. I'm not sure how I'd feel buying a bicycle from Walmart/Amazon from China. I really have no gauge on what their factories/employees are like.
  • 10 6
 Yeah I don't care for anything carbon footprint, or green or sustainable. All just ridiculous lefty woke words that actually mean nothing. If you wanted all those things then you'd not build anything anymore and actually deconstruct modern civilization. I want products that work incredibly well, reasonably and fairly priced and made with the best materials possible. Not the wokest.
  • 8 4
 That’s the entire point of the climate charade. It’s to deconstruct societies in power. The climate argument is used to stop consumerism, which is the core of capitalism. Without means to profit from your talent, skills, and hard work… people will not be able to take care of themselves, and they will surrender rights and freedoms to socialist/communist governments.
  • 6 2
 Best thing you can do is never buy new bikes. Industries trying to appear green while pumping the message of getting a new bike every year is super hypocritical. Just accept that capitalism is bad for the environment and all these companies are destroying the planet, then let the consumer decide. I drive a 1995 honda civic and am convinced my vehicle carbon footprint is less than everyone with fancy new e-vehicles. Plus i literally get the fuel economy of a prius but am fuckin loud due to my rusty exhaust.
  • 4 0
 ebikes and other electronic parts are the worst thing for our planet. For the people saying "but what if you ride your ebike to the trails instead of driving your car"if you can ride your ebike to the trail you can ride a mountainbike to the trail,stop being lazy. Don't buy electronic.
  • 4 0
 What I care about is the carbon footprint of driving 100 miles or flying across the country just to ride your bike. The footprint of the bike doesn't even come close to the footprint of the way most riders access the sport. Essentially you are asking us if we care about the minor details. No, we care about the major fundamentals. Seriously Pinkbike, the content of your articles is complete B.S. these days. I want you to get me stoked on riding, not ask me how I want to spend money I don't have on things I don't need.
  • 9 5
 Having cracked 8 frames this year I just want a bike that won't be trash every month. Lower carbon footprint at the start would be great but durability and lifespan are just as important.
  • 11 0
 lol what are you are doing to crack 8 frames a year?
  • 9 0
 Just riding along are we?
  • 5 0
 @IntoTheEverflow: I try to avoid just riding along at all cost and limit myself strictly to hucking, hammering, shredding, ripping and tearing. From what I understand, JRA is causing loads of product failures.
  • 3 0
 @neubiker: bike paths man. They're gnarly.
  • 3 0
 The bike you're happiest with you'll keep the longest. If it is a compromise, you'll always keep looking for the next thing that may be a slight bit closer to your ideal. Just buy your ideal bike, then ride the hell out of it.
  • 1 0
 This is a great point. Just get what you like best, then let keep it as long as possible. Keeping stuff longer is the best way to reduce emissions. I'm bad about this though
  • 6 1
 I’d want made in USA only. Or even label that states no parts came China. I’d like a new term to be coined “China Free”.
  • 6 2
 If your worried about a carbon footprint Stop having so many kids 2-3-4-5 kids. Go get fixed, there is nothing green about being a human on this planet we’re consuming everything and destroying Mother Earth.
  • 7 0
 More batteries, less glaciers. Not a wish, just a fact.
  • 5 6
 Less glaciers means more land for sick jump lines!
  • 4 1
 Focusing on the carbon imprint of a bike is missing the forest for the trees. Ofcourse every little bit helps, but focusing on the bike you buy is way into diminishing returns territory. Having a child is 60 tons of C02 per year - equivalent to a new bike every single day. Having a dog is alarming high, eating meat ect ect. Focusing on the C02 of a bike being manufactured is like trying to lose weight by eating one less grain of rice.
  • 3 0
 I buy used framesets, forks, parts of Ebay, either broken, in need of service etc, steel or alloy frames as I dont like the costly fragile carbon, I use my bikes til there broken, then fix them or take the parts and put onto another one, the newest bike I have is a 2013 trek hardtail. I dont fall foul to the fashion bullshit buy buy, E bikes, get real my legs still work, I will suffer the huff and puff for now, I dont drive or own a car, though all these parcels are delivered to my door.
  • 7 2
 Well i have a phd in climate science. Unfortunately, seems like everyone else here has an opinion rather than hearing from the science.
  • 3 0
 2nd hand all the way. Why people buy new bikes on the never never is beyond me Maybe because I am older and grew up with nothing as my parents didn't do big debt apart from a mortgage. They did retire young and travel the world after retirement though.
  • 5 0
 1. Buy a bike made in zero emission process 2. Shuttle it with you 5,7 liter V8 pickup to the top of a trail 11 times a day. 3. Sleep well. You just care for the planet.
  • 3 0
 The poll is flawed in so many ways:

No. I could not care less (the only definitive response of the four)

Maybe if I was on the fence and there was a big difference in emissions (but there is not a big difference between the bikes people want, so the question is moot)

Yes, I'd try to pick the lowest-emissions bike that fitted my needs. (mealymouthed: may as well say, "this Ford F350 fits my needs, and it's the lowest emissions vehicle that does so)


I'd stick with the bike I've got or buy second hand. (totally irrelevant to the question)

Why not have honest options? — rather than these that give people an out. Seems like overwhelmingly people really don't care when it comes to having the bike they want to ride.
  • 12 6
 Hell yeah I care that s why I buy Alu bike...
  • 8 3
 For the mines or the red clay?
  • 3 0
 @DHhack: Great places like the Cuyuna trail system/lakes were created by mining. I just don't like when miners make a whole mountain disappear
  • 10 7
 well considering sometimes I throw it in the back of my pickup truck, and daily drive a pickup. No..No not even a little bit. however, I do shut lights off when I'm not using them. that's what really matters.
  • 9 5
 If you cared about emissions for real, mtbs are the type of thing we could all live without. The top two answers are the only honest ones for people who frequent this sight.
  • 6 3
 It is difficult for me to be concerned about the carbon footprint of bikes while we are turning mtb into a motorsport with a much higher carbon footprint than even the worst bikes.
  • 2 0
 I am starting to look more at aluminum options (and wishing there were more out there)... and also considering strategies to keep the [carbon] bikes I have for longer.

I've been in a habit of swapping carbon frames every 1-2 years (and finding my old frames good new homes) but now that geometry has reached a point where I'm really happy with the fit and shape of my bikes... keeping them longer and replacing wear items feels more viable.
  • 3 0
 Username?
  • 1 0
 @vinay: I’ve had the SS ti honzo since 2016, and it’s still rolling the Chris King SS wheel set I hand built for it.
I ride it 50% of the time, and expect to have it for many more years to come.

I just also keep one FS bike and this rotates out more often. Currently it’s a Ripmo 2.
  • 1 0
 @basic-ti-hardtail: Ah yeah, sounds like a fun bike. My previous steel hardtail I kept for ten years and it wasn't even perfect. My current steel hardtail is from 2018 and built to my exact spec (geometry, color, options) and I don't see why I would ever want something else. For full suspension bikes I understand people prefer to replace them more often. I have never built a wheel with a super fancy hub, but I do go with brands that supply spares. My most recent rear wheel I built with a DT 350 hub. I trust it will be fine.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: Yeah, Dt350s are great- I’ve built several wheel-sets for friends around those hubs (and I’ve run them for years myself with zero issues).

I was lucky enough to work at a bike shop back when I bought the Kona and the Chris king stuff. They’re definitely a luxury, but considering how long they last, it actually feels like a ‘good deal’ in the long run.

Enjoy the custom hardtail- it’s hard to beat designing exactly the bike you want!
  • 4 0
 @basic-ti-hardtail: Yeah, back in the days as a student I worked in a bike shop which also built bikes for people. The home-brand frames were mostly road and trekking but I just loved to process. These people were so genuinely stoked. They got to pick geometry, color, logo font... We had one welder (for steel frames, the titanium frames were welded by Litespeed) so it took some time and in the mean time these people kept coming back just looking at stuff and generally being stoked. So back then I already thought, someday I want that too for my mountainbike. So a few years ago I finally did that (with BTR Fabrications) and even though all contact was over the internet, the process is sooo cool. And super stoked with how it worked out. It is great to be perfectly happy with what you have.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: Nice! That sounds like a very cool shop.
One of our local high schools is working to create a frame building program.
Hopefully this will lay the groundwork for more frame builders to set up shop in our region.

BTR frames are truly a work of art. No wonder you’re happy w/ your bike!
  • 2 0
 Business metrics, academic scores, public policy metrics, and in plain old accounting($), how one chooses to count and what gets left out can make a bigger difference than any kind of difference you'd see in process A vs process B, student A vs student B, investment A vs investment B. What I gleaned from the article is that my drive to and from the trailhead outstrips all the other pieces of the CO2 emission pie over the lifetime of the bike. Therefore maybe I should change my address or my car before I worry about bike A vs bike B. And that's without putting individual consumer impact in context with industrial impact, which we'll probably find dwarfs all individual consumption choices. So... ...
  • 6 0
 All the poor people pick the green option.
  • 2 0
 Let’s be honest the bikes we own are usually more than enough bike for us and there’s rarely a need to replace a bike that’s a year old. We just like shiny new things. Disappointing seeing the amount of people that don’t care for the carbon footprint of a bike when our playground is the natural world, the exact thing we are trying to save…
  • 3 1
 I care more about knowing that the production of the bike was done responsibly with waste at least being disposed of at a legitimate landfill, laborers being provided with safe working conditions, and the cradle to grave impact of the bike doing minimal harm to the people and environments involved. The CO2 impact of producing a bike is such a small component of its true manufacturing cost that it does not make sense to look solely at carbon foot print without the context of the other impacts created in manufacturing and distributing.
  • 2 0
 One reason I like alloy is that it requires skilled labor to build, which presumably means better wages for the workers. I also like seeing the welds and thinking about the hands that built it.
  • 3 1
 Evidence is strong that cap and trade type legislation not only undermines productivity and wealth, many believe it increases CO2 emissions. This results from factories leaving more efficient conditions and being pushed into third world countries where the cheapest form of fossil fuel is used.
  • 2 0
 It's academic... you can't have anything in our world without impacting something else in it's life cycle, whether that is in it's production, use, consumption, or any other element of its possession ... the bottom line is it's happening and nothing is going to alter the course we're on at this stage of the game and the best we can hope for is a minor slowing of the inevitable. 7,874,965,825 humans on the planet living breathing eating, crapping, making more humans and in general consuming ~ we aren't going to stop anything as exponential growth feeds the velocity at which we're moving towards that inevitability. Soooo... go ride your damn bike and do the best you can on all the rest and f*ck it ~ even if you're not a dentist buy something you'll love and enjoy and use while you still can. ((Ain't I just a sparkly sunshine rainbow blowing buzz kill))
  • 2 0
 when our glorious government 'leaders' stop flying around in private jets, stop mass producing weapons of war, and stop allowing poluting industries to sell their goods thoughout the world, I might start to care how much of an impact my bicycle has on the Big Picture. Otherwise I don't believe it makes one iota of a difference in reality. I do give credit for trying though.
  • 3 1
 I bought a TREK domane + HP road bike with Bosch motor. I use it 2 times a week for my 60mile ride to work, so it's pulled me out of my car 2 times a week. So-my bike footprint is probably bad (carbon e-road bike) but factor in leaving my car in the driveway more often (I also use it for many weekend errands) is a win for me. So-didn't care about footprint of my bike, in that instance.
  • 2 0
 What about the carbon footprint of how you bike? Is that is a bigger contributor over the long haul? Driving to ride, riding lifts at a resort? This is just BS marketing data, and not an honest concern for most buyers beyond value flagging. I do try to buy more sustainable gear when possible, but I don't kid myself its a meaningful change to climate concerns. If it drove real innovation to sustainability, well I might buy that for a dollar!
  • 2 0
 the carbon footprint is just part of the story. I would take that into account, but I'm also interested in the shipping and manufacturing of the bike. Right now I'm strongly in favor of brands like guerilla gravity, davinci, reeb, and ibis that are either all or partly made in north america. Knowing that the frame and materials traveled less distance does mean a lower carbon footprint; but also less pollution, tighter control of the supply chain, less chance for human cost, and faster turn around on new designs.
Not to mention that this past year has through into stark contrast the differences in availability and turnaround time between domestic and foreign production.
  • 3 1
 You don’t leave foot prints when you ride a bike - you leave tire marks .

Enough virtue signalling - if you could make millions burning the planet you would too .

If you want to help future generations teach them not to be lazy and try stealing money from other people and call it climate change .
  • 2 0
 I love tinkering with bikes and testing new stufss but I had some kind of revelation a few years ago when I realized that my 2 parents only purchased 2 bikes in 30years, one for their 30th birthday and one for their 60th, while I have bought and sold so many bikes in only 15 years.

True they are only riding on the road but why should I have to buy so many bikes when they are perfectly fine ? Sure most of the new bikes were nicer but do the acutal quality of my riding improved ? I am not sure I enjoy it more riding today than I did 10y ago. You might feel that returning to an oldie is not that fun when used to a new bike. But you don't miss what you never tasted.

So a 2y ago I decided to stop replacing shit until it breaks and my current trail bike is a v1 Banshee Primee. Is it as long and slack as the newest one ? No, but while I usually ride "L" sizes I purchased an XL one with cut seat tube and an angleset headset so it is pretty close to the newer fashion and I just love it how it use. Maybe newer bikes are much better but I don't plan to purchase a replacement anytime soon if it does the job and will fix it as long as it is fixable. If I buy a new bike for some reason I will first look at the second hand market. This is silly buying new things when so many working items are enough to content the whole population worldwide.
  • 5 1
 I only care about the footprint of the tyres and the amount of grip they produce.
  • 4 0
 I’ll just keep rolling that blue bin past my F150 to end of the driveway and all will be forgiven.
  • 3 0
 I care so much I only buy used bikes since it's better for the environment. Or maybe I'm just a broke ass and can't buy a new bike.
  • 1 0
 I'm not sure the carbon footprint of a bike compares to much more than switching to LED bulbs round the house. Not spilling 130 million gallons into the ocean, or testing nuclear weapons, maybe managing the move to sustainibly supplied electric cars, repairing and upgrading cars designed without obsolescence by design might be a better place to start
  • 3 2
 Billionaires in an ego driven space race is way worse for carbon emissions than bikes. Coal power plants, Joe Manchin, air travel etc. all higher on my list of carbon problems to solve. Bike production is kinda towards the bottom of the list for me.
  • 1 0
 or an 85 car motorcade...
  • 2 1
 If the difference in CO2 emissions between a top tier aluminum framed Fuel EX and a full bling carbon Fuel EX is the same as a week’s worth of commuting for me…I’m sorry, that doesn’t matter in the slightest. I’ll work from home 5 days/year and all of a sudden we’re even. I bet if I didn’t eat a hamburger once or twice a month, that’d have a greater impact than the difference between an aluminum and carbon frame in terms of carbon emissions.
  • 1 0
 I think an important thing to progress towards a better future is to have in mind order of magnitude on what matters and what don't. I'm 0 plane, full bike commute, flexitarian, collective housing. Those makes a difference at the end of the year, no what kind of material is used on the bike frame i usually keep between 5 to 10 years, mostly buy used and always sell in excellent condition to future owner.
  • 1 0
 I do care about the carbon footprint of items in my life but as stated in article, a bike is a pretty small piece of the pie. I put out more emissions driving to my local trails every year than my bike takes to produce. I would like to see specs like this on other major purchases in my life though. I think it is a great thing for companies to measure and hats off to them for being transparent with the public on this. We can't get better in anything unless we measure it. We have to start somewhere.
  • 2 0
 I buy a new bike on average every 3-5 years. I would imagine every other aspect of my life has many times more environmental impact than this does. So no, I don’t really care.
  • 2 0
 Riding the same bike twice as long also decreases emissions, doesn't it? I'm great at that!

Ride it until it crumbles to dust, then glue the dust back together and ride it a few more years. Very green.
  • 3 0
 I care about my carbon footprint, but I'm guessing the carbon footprint of a bike is minimal. My gut says one flight to Whistler is probably worse than my bike itself.
  • 3 0
 How many more forks will have to be produced to accommodate the 1.8 headtube? Setting new standards does nothing in lowering their carbon footprint.
  • 5 0
 Bs Second hand Stop buy new
  • 1 0
 Yes and no. I want bikes to produce less emissions and will continue to push for that. But no, it won't change the difference on the bike I buy. We most likely emit more emission in our vehicle driving to the trail heads in a year than from producing the bike. Probably other areas of our life where cutting emissions has a higher marginal utility gain than switching to a lower emission bike that may not be what we want. (For instance not using plastic straws, buying less packaged food, switching to biodegradable toothbrushes, etc. ) The little stuff adds up after a few years, yet has a much smaller effect on our life than switching bikes.
  • 1 0
 To perform a study like Trek has done costs roughly $250k. This is highly detailed work requiring massive inputs from the brand and manufacturing partners. Not all bike brands have this type of cash and while it does provide visibility it does not drive towards any solution. Nothing about manufacturing of bicycle parts is sustainable. The energy sources, raw materials, processing and logistics are extremely carbon intensive. What can be controlled is the corporate carbon emissions. There are new thermoplastic carbon products that have the potential to be much more sustainable than thermoset carbon and aluminum. Tires are a huge problem. You can look towards buying products from brands which manufacture locally to reduce logistics cost. Unfortunately at this point you can't compare and contrast the sustainability of different brands. Overall the parts are all coming from the same places and made using the same processes so there will be little to no difference between Trek, specialized or any brand. Until there are massive increases in renewable energy used to power the manufacturing processes, carbon capture at smelters, sustainable rubbers, more recycled plastics, and carbon capture on ocean frighters there is little room to reduce the carbon footprint of bike manufacturing. Companies can purchase offsets but that's also a fuzzy area. The most you can do as a consumer of bike products is use that bike as much as you can and avoid driving your cars, don't buy unnecessary shit, try to ride your bike for many years before buying a new one ect. The consumerism of the cycling industry and inability to keep a standard for more than a few years sure as hell doesn't help.
  • 1 0
 These are interesting thought experiments but the carbon footprint of a bike (e or otherwise) is a little silly to worry about considering the vastly larger negative impact of pretty much every other aspect of a human's life. Just the fact that the vehicle is human powered, in whole or in part, makes it a good choice from an environmental impact perspective. If you are worried about the environment start by eating plant-based foods, turning down the thermostat, driving less, take less plane trips, reduce the disposable plastic you use, etc. Any one of these would do more good than buying one bike vs another IMHO.
  • 4 0
 Any singular bike purchase is peanuts compared to driving a car, eating red meat, watering your lawn, etc...
  • 4 0
 Buy less, buy quality, keep it longer. Individual behaviors can have an impact too.
  • 2 0
 Before you allow "carbon footprint" to be important to you, take a deep look into how that phrase entered popular use.
grist.org/energy/footprint-fantasy
tl;dr - oil company PR campaign
  • 2 1
 Yes, as a consumer we should care about the emissions. HOWEVER - it is not the consumers responsibility to pick "green" products. The corps should be the ones responsible for the complete life-cycle of their products, allowing for complete recycling or reuse.
  • 4 0
 The lowest carbon footprint bike you can have is the one already in your garage
  • 1 0
 Manufactures should be offering "buy back"/Recycling programs. Fox took some of my old shox from 2006 at their Reno facility. They said they would scrap the metal. Dealers should accept old frames and components for recycling to manufactures in my opinion. Especially the aluminum frames and components. Old carbon frames can be crushed and incinerated. Bikes and landfills don't work well together... With the rate bikes are be coming obsolete, it would be a honorable thing for manufacturers to do.
  • 1 0
 I only picked 'yes' because if it were on the box, I'd at minimum have to spare a second or two to comprehend the scope of it......Then, I'd remind myself that no matter what we do, it's going to get much worse (a thousand years from now) before it even begins to turn around....and I just shrug and buy the bike I want.
  • 1 0
 People need to care enough to fix the pollution problem on their own. Caring enough to only expect the government to enact a policy isn't going to change anything. So yea...care enough to commute by bike as much as possible, regardless of what kind of bike it is, because that'll still be better.

I have a very close couple who love their virtue-signaling ways, but I watch them buy cases and cases of water bottles because it's "convenient for their family situation". If they truly cared enough, they would be using filtered water and refilling a resuable bottle/canister.

My point is, when individuals start to care enough that they'll inconvenience themselves every day....that's when we'll see change in this world.
  • 3 2
 I dream of riding off into the sunset with Greta Thunberg. I try to use bikes not cars, but I have driven to ride far too much for one human. Now I go green until it hurts, I'm old and have nothing better to do, but in my youth I was a consumptive American.
  • 1 0
 Only if I knew the company or the manufacturing process had a horrendous environmental impact that was easily avoidable... I mean if you really gave a shit aboot your impact on the environment you'd be in a loin cloth living in a cave eating leaves an berries......
  • 1 0
 In the end I don't really care. If the data was easily available from all the companies I was looking I would probably at least consider the impact. But the reality is what bicycles are a tiny percentage of the problem and I would be better if I just didn't buy something as frequently as I do. My car will have a greater impact than my life time of bikes and I will need a new car every 10-15 years. So for my car I do consider the impact of it, but much of even that is me being cheap and not liking to pay a lot for gas. Probably the biggest contribution I make in making my life more green is commuting via bicycle as often as I can, but even the reality here is that I would rather commute by bike than drive to work.
  • 1 0
 I'm surprised about the small difference in CO2 emissions between carbon frames an alloy frames. And also very small difference between eMTBs and their top tier carbon offering. So to me, that small difference is not a deciding figure. What matters more is that carbon frame/parts cannot be recycled yet. They end up in a landfill somewhere.
  • 1 0
 Pretty insane to me that making just one brand new bike emits about an equivalent amount of CO2 as driving a car 500 miles. Why are we, the individuals being so pushed to stop using gas powered cars if this is the case? Why is the US (and especially California) practically trying to outlaw motorsport if literally one bike would manage to produce the same emissions? And that's just ONE BIKE from ONE MANUFACTURER, Trek probably makes hundreds of those things per day, not to mention the whole slew of other manufacturers doing the same thing. How about instead of restricting the people, we restrict the companies who are doing 99% of the damage.
  • 2 0
 Yes carbon, that's what matters; not the billions of tonnes of manufacturing poison factories dump into the waterways, forget about that, only think about the fertilizing oops I mean deadly carbon dioxide.
  • 4 1
 “Some men just want to watch the world burn.”

If you're using a computer, phone,tablet to post this WOKE Shite.. you're a hypocrite.
  • 1 0
 Considering the amount of solo riders with trucks and vans in the parking lots I'd say there aren't a lot of mtn bikers that really care about carbon emissions. Imagine the CO2 reduction if we took all the personal use/commuter diesel super duty trucks and vans off the road and replaced them with small efficient 4cyl cars. We'd also have much less congestion since we could fit more vehicles in the same space.
  • 1 0
 How many companies in the bike industry, whether bike brands or components, have their products manufactured in the Far East (Malaysia, Taiwan, China etc)?
Even putting to one side the use of carbon, or the environmentally harmful processes required to extract the metals required to produce batteries for ebikes (and other electric items), unless consumers are given the option to purchase products manufactured in their own countries, then there’ll always be a need to import from around the globe.
  • 1 0
 The reality? We don’t have much choice where shimano and sram decide to make parts for the US, nor do we have a choice where bike manufacturers make frames. It would obviously be better if they were made in North America but that won’t allow bike companies to make huge profits and grow every year for the stock market. Globalism is the problem and there isn’t a thing that we are going to do about it.
  • 1 0
 The climate change charlatans have been telling me the world is going to end in ten years for the last 70 years. If you believe any of this is real I feel bad for. Now put your masks back on and go get your booster shot. Clown world just keeps on going...ffs
  • 2 1
 I support MFG's in general using better packing options. My biggest concern is trying to avoid plastics, because they take a long time to break down. A carbon frame in the landfill every 5-10 yrs is acceptable.
  • 4 4
 I know the production of a bike is grain of sand in this huge CO2 polluted world, but the mindset makes a difference.

We all polute. We all consume. MTB is a luxury. I agree with every of these statements. But "I couldn't care less" being (at the moment) the 2nd most voted, behind "Maybe" is quite saddening. Might be that the poll is poorly formulated for a subject as serious as this one, but it shows a lot nonetheless.

Of course it is our responsabilty to lower our emissions - if not through our habits of consumption, then through our opinions (and our votes). I still believe in the power of public opinion to change big things. And if you've marked "I couldn't care less", then I understand that you think that the current state of affairs do not make a difference in our lives. It does, in ways we don't imagine (really - and not even talking only about climate change).
  • 3 1
 When you do as much as you can in all other aspects of your life including commuting every day all year round by bike and not eating any meat and not heating or cooling your home, the tiny amount of emissions from producing your MTB which you keep for many years are not really a concern. Just because people don't care about the emissions form the production of their bicycle doesn't mean they don't care about emissions at all. Yes the companies manufacturing all goods should be doing all they can to minimise their environmental impact. This is just a given. I don't buy into the marketing though. It's all just greenwashing bullshit. The electricity grid needs decarbonising. This will significantly reduce the emissions from bicycle production as most of the emissions are from energy consumption during manufacturing.
  • 21 20
 Can we get a settings filter (like the e-bike filter in settings) to get rid of the environmental BS that has inundated PB recently? The global elite are laughing at the simps who buy "green".
  • 23 11
 Imagine loving riding in the environment one hand and hating the environment on the other.
  • 7 7
 @map-guy: anyone who questions or disagrees with mainstream liberal accepted opinion or "science", is just an irrational hater.
  • 2 0
 @wburnes: the great thing about science is that even if the motivations are political, the facts and findings are real. Fun fact: scientific consensus for human caused climate change just passed 99.9% globally. But maybe only 1 in 1000 scientists aren't liberal... I mean it's not like the right are too concerned with trivial things like quantifiable, proven, and incontrovertible facts.
  • 2 0
 @nzandyb: exactly. I’ve heard something like this quote more over the last year than ever before. Science mixed with politics only becomes politics…
  • 4 4
 I care about environmental impact and climate change a lot. And a lot of choices I make are informed (although not always dictated) by those considerations. Things like political activity, how I vote, my line of work, the length and frequency of my commute, family size, diet, vacation destinations and how we get there, etc.

The relative carbon footprint of a bicycle (unless radically different information emerged about the magnitude of both emissions and differentials) is not going to be a relevant decision point for me. As a general rule, the only consumer choice you can make that will have anything other than a negligible impact is not buying something at all. There is no such thing as green consumerism, and I'm not particularly interested in splitting hairs over the relative carbon footprints of luxury goods.

That said, I absolutely will make bike-related buying decisions based on social and environmental factors where I do perceive there to be material differences.

I tend to buy alloy bikes anyway because, after owning a couple of carbon bikes,the value proposition of a carbon vs. alunimum frame was lower for me than getting better suspension/brakes/etc. If money wasn't a limiting factor, the carbon footprint wouldn't create any hesitation. I mean, I will likely replace my enduro bike bike with an alloy e-bike at some point in the not too distant future (3-5 years) when the tech has matured, I'm a bit less fit, and it makes sense for my finances.

Oh, and if you are looking for market research, that recent Rocky Mountain e-bike launch video emphasizing that what you are basically buying is more time and energy for the things you love (whether that is riding downhill, accessing alpine trails, or fishing/golfing/spending time with your family) is ABSOLUTELY the most compelling reason I see for owning a mo-ped.
  • 4 0
 I bought all my bikes used. How's my carbon footprint vs. a new bike?
  • 1 0
 Same here. New bikes give me anxiety, I much prefer someone else puts the first scratch on it. Plus riding 16mos old technology gives me an excuse to be slow.
  • 1 1
 I care a lot more for the ARCH coal plant 1 mile up the road bulldozing huge sections of "leased" forest running a d9 bulldozer loading the train that comes through twice a day. They poison my water, and take millions in "support" from govmnt. My bike make a gnats ass worth of difference. We drink bottled. Even with the north fork of the gunnison literally running through my back yard.
  • 1 0
 Just gonna say it: I don't really think about it much. Never have. Instead I'll buy the bike I like and hold onto for a while. Prolly 5 years or so. Then I'll sell it for very little but it'll find new life. Reuse is key
  • 2 1
 You Mean a trace gas that plant life breathes? For a different view, Observation, Check out following : thegrandsolarminimum.com Also: Piers Corbyn's site : Weatheraction.com JC
  • 2 0
 Legit question / wrong answers propositions......... and anyways: no real solution: we're all gonna die because of our greed, but it's not our fault, isn't it?
  • 1 1
 Interesting that I could buy a new e-bike every month, and still I'd have a smaller footprint that someone who commutes 600 miles a month.

I very much look at footprint of things I buy, but really 1) flying, 2) driving, 3) eating meat, 4) home heating are way way way bigger contributors for me.
  • 2 2
 The emissions from bike manufacturing is a drop in the ocean. To make an ebike is like 1 tank of fuel in a car. If that bike can save the owner from burning 2 tanks of fuel then we're already ahead.

Bikes are very low on the list of environmental impacts. Driving cars, eating meat, heating and cooling buildings etc are all much bigger contributers.

Ride your bike, minimise meat consumption, ensure your house is well insulated and don't run your A/C when it isn't necessary. These are things we can all do to minimise our footprint and are much more impactful than looking for a bike with 100kg less CO2 emissions.
  • 5 1
 The responses nicely illustrate why we are totally f*cked.
  • 2 0
 Humans, like other animals, evolved to survive day to day. We struggle when it comes to planning for long term survival because we can't rely on our instincts.
  • 2 0
 Iv just brought a husqvarna wrx 125 two-stroke so im Basically a smoggy although it is 21 years old so can you call it recycling as its getting rebuild.
  • 2 0
 So you care about the carbon footprint of your mountain bike, but transport it in that gas guzzling Sprint van? Interesting....
  • 1 1
 its not a big enough difference to make me buy one vs another if I didn't like the greener but I would like to see more companies adapt better manufacturing processes like what GG is doing.
  • 6 1
 GG is just a bunch of marketing. thermoplastics aren't much better than thermosets from a sustainability perspective. They would be better off sticking to AL frames if they actually cared about environmental impact.
  • 3 0
 Also - are we going to ignore “WAP Sustainability Consulting”?
  • 2 1
 Nothing about mountain biking, and very little about cycling as a whole, is remotely "green" and it's comical how many people try to pretend otherwise.
  • 3 0
 A bike is a drop in the ocean compared to my cars
  • 5 2
 One of the big reasons I will never consider an e-bike.
  • 4 2
 Is this poll a metric for Outside to see how much they should inundate PB with #greenmedia?
  • 2 0
 No it's a way for them to identify conspiracy theorists and you've fallen for it.
  • 1 0
 @kevinturner12: If you only knew the real truth…Didn’t Levy say he is part of the Reptilians, Kaz is a robot for sure. And Outside is ran by an AI system to fully control the hipster population!
  • 2 0
 Seeing how the sales for Ebikes are skyrocketing, id say most people dont give a fook
  • 7 5
 The results of the poll are really depressing. I thought the bike community would care more about the environment.
  • 2 0
 Totally dude
  • 3 0
 Riding a bike is inherently “green” since it’s human powered
  • 6 1
 Unless it's e-mtb and will need power to charge it every time. And most I see are driven not ridden to my local trails.
  • 2 6
flag zonoskar (Oct 30, 2021 at 4:03) (Below Threshold)
 Humans emit CO2 as well, and more so the harder they have to work/exercise.
  • 2 4
 @zonoskar: yes So you understand the fallacy that CO2 emissions are harmful to our environment
  • 3 0
 @zonoskar: FFS. Humans inhale the same amount of CO2 they exhale, machines do not.
  • 2 0
 I think a follow up poll should be are people willing to pay more for a environmentally friendly bike?
  • 1 0
 Do not care. Bikes have such a low mass that being concerned over their environmental footprint is some real princess and the pea nonsense.
  • 1 0
 I'd rather buy something with a big CO2 impact that lasts than a lesser product that breaks constantly. This metric excludes durability, which is a glaring oversight.
  • 7 5
 Aluminum for the win baby! I do have a carbon pencil holder though:-)
  • 3 0
 carbon frames last longer and can be easily repaired, cracked alloy frames are scrap metal
  • 1 3
 @f00bar: Scrap metal that can and wil be recycled. Your Carbon stuff will end up in a landfill.
  • 3 1
 do you care about the carbon footprint of your life?
  • 2 4
 I'm not a mouth breather driving around a full size diesel with exhaust and in general my carbon footprint is very low otherwise what with solar on roof, 98% efficiency furnace and water heater and a EV for transportation as well. Mountain biking is one area where I try to use what I need but I don't make decisions based on carbon footprint although I would much rather buy quality and have it last rather than junk that breaks.
  • 8 2
 I almost guarantee my carbon footprint is lower in a small apartment, well maintained 20 year old vehicle, and wind/ng grid energy. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back if you think the climate crisis is solved with consumerism.
  • 4 2
 @Bro-LanDog: If that thinking makes yourself feel better great, however the infrastructure of our house should last an easy 20-25 years (already been 7) and though initial carbon cost is greater it's probably lower in the long run and this is for a family of four so average per person is lower.

You are right though that the best decision for the environment is just to not consume.
  • 2 3
 @Bro-LanDog: Carbon is what plants use for food, so my bigger carbon footprint is better for the environment.
  • 2 0
 I don't have carbon shoes, just 5:10's
  • 2 0
 Making things that don't break is Green.
  • 2 2
 I need stronger bikes not soyboy hipster bikes.
  • 1 0
 Wait, there’s an actual bike in that box??!! I’ll take it since the one I ordered LAST year is still “on backorder”
  • 2 1
 How many gold stars do you get on your star chart from the overlords for publishing an article about the enviroment?
  • 2 0
 Once again, missing the e-bike tag.
  • 1 1
 Carbon bikes and components take carbon out of potential atmospheric release by sequestering it in their forms. See? Good for the environment.
  • 2 4
 Why the fuck are you asking these dumb ass questions to the general public. I don't give a fuck. The companies producing the bikes should be questioned not us. All I care about is getting through the trail without and mechanical issues.
  • 2 2
 I for one am just floored by the amount of climate change conspiracy theory mouth breathers on Pinkbike. Just care about the environment geeeeez
  • 1 0
 Would you spend an extra grand on your bike if it had 25% less carbon footprint to manufacture?
  • 2 0
 Thanks for the shout out! @pinkbike
  • 2 0
 "don't care less" almost wins... crazy....
  • 2 0
 I care, but not enough to not drive 45 minutes to the trailhead.
  • 2 0
 Go vegan, only buy used cars, only buy used bikes.
  • 2 0
 Interesting that the caring level is so low.
  • 1 0
 My bike’s not carbon so there is no carbon footprint and I don’t need to care right?
  • 1 0
 Mate just keep chucking the excess in the ocean, as a guy I know once said, the ocean is big. He's a fuckwit though.
  • 1 0
 I won't but carbon only aluminium as aluminium is 100% recyclable as where carbon is single use
  • 1 0
 It’s a good selling point for me, but not a deciding factor.
  • 1 0
 Needs to include the logistics of shipping half way around the planet.
  • 2 4
 Nope don't give a hoot. New ebike every year please. I'm here for a limited amount of time and I'm going to enjoy it. The world can burn in 30 years or so as far as I'm concerned.
  • 1 0
 Thanks
  • 1 2
 I honestly couldn't care. The process of making a bike then shipping the bike is going to use a lot of energy especially for extracting aluminium from bauxite.
  • 1 0
 Every part on my bike is made from bamboo and hemp
  • 1 2
 I don't care because regardless of which bike I buy, I'll be either shuttling in my gas guzzling F150 or riding a resort. Both are destructive to the environment.
  • 1 0
 I bet you all are a hoot at Thanksgiving!
  • 10 9
 I personally don't GAF.
  • 3 1
 Then BOHICA
  • 2 2
 I’ve already lived the best years of my life! Good luck groms…
  • 1 1
 Most Green seems Green but isn't.
  • 1 0
 Prematurely that is.
  • 1 0
 even the chain
  • 1 1
 how about "Im too poor yo buy new bikes "
  • 1 1
 more CO2 more plants win win!! dont know what all this crap is about!
  • 1 2
 My bike doesn’t come in a box.
  • 3 0
 Yes it does
  • 6 2
 Trying to get mine to come in a box, but it just keeps going on the carpet. The cheeky bastard. Big Grin

I'll see myself out....
  • 2 2
 @spaceofades: When have you purchased a bike in a box? Unless you shop consumer direct, most of us grab a bike that is on display so we do not see original packaging from the manufacturer.
  • 1 0
 @levie125: i think what he is trying to say is whether the bike comes to your door or it comes to a shop, the bike was shipped in a box.

That said i think what you are trying to say is not having your bike delivered straight to your door reduces the carbon footprint because shipping to a shop with multiple other bikes must have less carbon footprint?
  • 3 0
 @levie125: They're still using the same amount of packaging to send it to a shop or to a consumer.....
  • 1 0
 @ihatton929: I know what he meant but I was just pointing to the irony of the question presented in the poll. Not realistic scenario since most of us are getting a bike from the shop floor.
  • 2 3
 @levie125: I like a freshie in a box. Not some ho that been run through like that 89 Trans Am in the projects. I can reuse that box for years not toss it in the dumpster behind the shop.
  • 1 2
 I gave green buggers
  • 3 0
 You may have a penchant for buggery, but I think you meant boogerz
  • 2 1
 @suspended-flesh: or maybe he doesn't use a condom and leaves the lights off. Organic eco mode buggering...
  • 3 5
 Where are all my vegan e-mtnbikers?! Shout out!

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