I was truly shocked this week at the comment-driven attack on this new bike from
UK brand, ARBR. I saw a prototype in the flesh three years ago, and I thought it looked stunning: part
Honda, part
Zerode, part spaceship. This week saw the Saker come into fruition with the official press release; the first time we were able to delve into the facts and numbers of this unique machine. I had conversed previously with Robert Barr/Arbr and was anxious to see his dream coming to reality. When the PR arrived in my inbox, I envisaged the article erupting through the internet with welcoming and envious comment.
We can only imagine that Robert has spent years discharging blood, sweat, and tears into the process of bringing the Saker to market. It's likely he's invested a serious wedge out of his own pocket, sacrificed countless hours of time, late nights and weekends to deliver to you his dream, his baby, his vision, and his artistic sculpt of material. If you believe the PR, there is a huge catalog of history, research, knowledge, expertise, and testing that has created a bike Robert confides in to give the ultimate performance.
But, f*** all that – short tempered, keyboard bashing warriors did not hold back, cold hearted bastards with not a care in the world. A tirade of abuse directed at this voiceless chassis because many people deemed that it
"didn't look very nice." Some comments were so harsh, that if pronounced face to face to a fellow human being would result in a frontispiece more grotesque than their language.
I have always carried a flame of hope that we were inside the sports and performance world, but these wretched words embossed confirmation on a deep suspicion – that we are truly in the fashion industry. Comments flowed with zero know of how it may perform on the trail. Just imagine if the Saker turned out to be the fastest, most efficient, lightest, best handling, most playful and grippy bike in the world. The perfect fit and geometry for every rider in every instance. A bike that makes the impossible possible and turns the MTB world on its head. What if?
This would dish up some fast-food dinners of grisly words, or would it? Maybe people
do only care what it looks like, maybe we are in the fashion industry? The carpark and cafe becoming catwalk, covering up truths that lay hidden out on the trails.
Personally, I am more interested in performance, where a bike allows me to go, the feedback it delivers into my nervous system from the trail. You cannot regard the bike from a perfect tangent at 90º when you're shredding root and rock, blood diluted by adrenaline and eyes focussed on the next ridge, precipice or clinch.
This boils down to the question – do you buy your bikes and products based on looks?
That bike may ride awesome buts it's not great looking which, if I'm honest, would stop me from buying it.
It would serve manufacturers well to read the comment sections of sites like this. You have a free and very honest focus group. Too bad you're butt hurt about it Paul Aston.
Serious readers and commenters are looking elsewhere for content and conversation as pinkbike has been overrun by haters, troll, and jealous scrubs.
Having said all that, I dont think this frame deserves being called ugly, its not up there with the major brands for aesthetics but it certainly is at par or above par with its functionality, but that will need to be proven.
This is all about a press release, that has nothing to give but fashion (and producer's opinion)
When I saw this bike I texted my brother with the picture stating that we need to each get one. I was so excited coming from the days of the Honda and always wishin Mountain Cycle would update their geometries.
For me, bikes like this and the Unno are not super bikes. They are hyper bikes...and not strictly on the basis of performance alone. They're limited, exclusive, and exotic. Personally, I find that aspect really intriguing and I hope to be on one of these at some point. I wish them luck.
Was I the only one?
Sorry, I couldn't resist to post this... even though I was one of the few who tried to stop people from insulting in the original article
Has it ever occurred to you that this is exactly what some people might like and want?
If you're designing a niche product, there's no such thing as "the market". Look at cars; there's Lamborghini with its sharp edges that looks almost like a stealth plane or a spaceship and there's Porsche with its smooth almost organic curves. They couldn't be any different, yet both have their fans.
If you like this design, cool. I dont think its too bad but I think the styling is very dated, which is why there has been so much hate. The functionality could be amazing, and that is what might sell this to people looking for function over form.
You have to ask yourself, what is this frame design bringing to the table that is unique? A single pivot with an idler pulley, its been done before...
What this company seems to be bringing to the table is a high quality of manufacturing, and that is of-course worth something..But they need to hire an industrial designer.
I'm trying to buy the girlfriend a bike, and one question I ask her is "do you see yourself riding it". It's gotta inspire you to ride first and foremost. Aesthetic has its place, but nobody is ever going to agree on it. I remember Vernon Felton saying that the Evil Uprising looked hideous, but that thing gets me to full mast. Horses for courses.
Fashion has taken a cultural hold on our visual desires. Fashion is an industry based on our desires that our eyes be pursuaded. We've been doing this from the beginning. Look at art throughout history. We use naked bodies and elements of nature that are in style at the time and put them on walls and buildings throughout time. Big boobs and ass in the past, boy butts now for woman in porn. We buy things that persuad our eyes. That's fashion. That's capitalism. The best companies can do that while making it functional. This bike might have not done the beautiful part for all while engineering it perfect. They just might have s smaller market?
I'm not in the market for a hyper bike, but am interested to read how ARBR performs.
On the other thread I said I thought it looked like an e-bike. Still, I'm interested to see how well it works.
Whens the last time PB gave any bike a true honest hard review and actually recommended consumers instead go with a different model? Every bike review generally has the same conclusion on PB.
Its going to be interesting to see how it rides but I'm guessing its going to be great, people these days just prefer a trophy whore while they are out and about so they can show off but behind close doors it gives them nothing in return just a hard time.
I ride a mojo Geometron so it's safe to say that while I personally like the way it looks it is definitely a function first bike
2. Do you think everyone likes Starling Bikes? That nobody looks at the straight round steel tubes and says "WTF is this 1990?"
Oh - hang on...
OF COURSE it's subjective.
Because the article - and the feedback it's generating - are self-selecting.
Bet the feedback would be VERY different of the question was:
"who wants one of these for free as a long-term tester you can keep?"
Modern Orange bikes are AT LEAST as ugly as this thing - they still sell, because they're a great ride.
Good God - PARAGRAPHS, FFS!
- Cost; £4300 is an obscene cost for a bicycle frame, you defend it but could you afford one yourself?!
- The unknown; the company and designer are new to the bike industry, are we expected to just believe that the frame is brilliant just because they say so?
- The aesthetic IS unusual, ugly perhaps and does not scream out 'refinement' like the Unno or other top carbon frames.
On a final point, you seem to be getting upset that an inanimate object has been the subject of criticism, you are meant to be a journalist and your response is almost as bad as some of the criticism itself 'cold bastards'?
Presume that's because you lack one of your own?
I'm sure as a bike manufacturer you would do some r&d and see what works for your intended target audience not just design a bike and try and hope to sell it as this is the worst business model I have ever heard of bizarre
Also straight steel tubes are timeless whether you want to believe it or not.
Once this carbon phase has passed and we have moved on to 3D pinting metals people will still be welding steel tubes to make bike frames. Why... because it is a timeless art form.
I agree the criticism was harsh but maybe it would have been better to release the bike following a couple of glowing reviews.
Add a gearbox and I would certainly be keeping an eye on them.
Because it's practically impossible to achieve this shape with steel and vice versa.
@Racer951: "I can barely find a single person who likes the bike"
Perhaps it's because everyone who said something positive about it got downvoted...
Personally I like tubes - Steel, Aluminium, Carbon (Robot Bike) and the simplicity of them However I can see the benefits of carbon and the organic shapes that can be formed with it.
If I am looking at a bike I take it as a whole, not just based on it's material.
That said, I think balanced perspectives are key. Kookiness is a key historical element to mtb characters and bikes alike. If you crack a joke about the looks of a bike, acknowledge the insane amount of hard work and guts that went into creating something different (am I the only one who misses bikes like this??). It was def sad to see the same good people who plead for something different decide to rip a bike to shreds because it is finally, truly different. I'm all for a community-wide dose of lighten-the-F-up.
How somebody regards form over function is probably routed in how serious they are about riding and in that respect everybody differs. If I was a keen racer I would probably disregard form in the persuit of performance improvements.
dirtmountainbike.com/bike-reviews/trail-enduro-bikes/starling-murmur-steel-bike-thats-blown-us-away.html
...would say material doesn't matter, it's about how it's used.
Like it or not, it's a great tool for marketing/sales teams to gather a sample audience for new products. Especially in Pinkbike's case as it has a global reach.
If you don't want people to do this don't have a comments section.
It's that simple
From the article, the author isn't against opinions, nor offending others. He's against people going out of their way to offend, and there are more than a few comments on that particular article referred to that do just that.
@SacAssassin People forget what being basically decent towards others is sometimes and instead hide behind words like, honesty. Before shitting on others, maybe pull your pantaloons up.
So in essence you're saying everyone can have an opinion as long as it agrees with yours?
Scientists have proven a strong link between that behaviour and microscopic testicles, y'know...
You've really overdosed on your Stupid pills this morning, haven't you?
(Just sharing my opinion, y'know...)
Everyone is allowed to have an opinion but it should still respect the thoughts and efforts of others!
great point - there are plenty of very capable bikes that also look great.
Probably the worse bit of journalism I've read on this site and I've been a "reader" for some time.
And finally the reason people resort to the look of the bike is that they literally have no other information about the bike on which to base their opinion. Until people in real life see them, ride them, and buy them all companies are going to have to deal with the "all I know is that it's ugly" argument especially should they have no history of producing good bikes (Trek et al.).
One last thing: If you think this guy got bashed hard go take a look at the Spec. Demo 8 Alum article released at about the same time. That received just as much if not more hate for exactly the same sorts of reasons.
Why does it really matter how folk express their opinion anyway? Some will be nasty, some apologetic, what difference does that make? Very different people, very different manners.
You could've chosen only to acknowledge their general yes or no, and let the rest pass.
Riding above it, so to speak.
So the fact that a bunch of dudes on a mtn bike message board widely gave it a pass - take it with a grain of salt; you're probably not trying to convince people who would otherwise by a trek or specialized.
There are many bikes on the market in the 2-3k range and most of them look pretty much the same. So if you want to sell yours for 5.5k, it's imperative that it doesn't look like anything else out there. Because if it does, then everyone could say "why would I spend 5.5k for this bike if that one looks the same and costs half the money?"
This inevitably leads to designs that people either love or hate, people see them and either touch their forehead or their dick.
And if I were designing a bike, I'd choose the same approach. I'd rather have three people love it, and seven people hate it than ten people being indifferent or saying it looks like a Session. Especially if I wasn't planning to sell 10,000 of them.
Look at Nicolai for example. Their prices are similar; many people say they look fugly as if they were welded in a garage and there are others who'd sell a kidney to buy one.
Btw personally I don't think it looks terrible, I'm not saying it's my favorite design, but I've seen much worse, I don't understand all the hate.
Btw price is irrelevant in this discussion, if you can't afford a 5.5k frame, then you can't afford it, regardless of how it looks like. (Neither can I btw). This isn't a bike for 99% of us. This is a bike for the 1% who can afford it and want to have something different.
Company founded in 2004, sold its first model for €660,000.
On the other hand Robot Bike and UNNO both make similar claims and have a similar price tag nut got nowhere near the dogs abuse these guys did. Probably because of their more conventional and aesthetically pleasing looks, but remember that St the time of either one of those press releases we knew nothing about hotel those things rode.
But then I laughed my arse off. That was the biggest pile of Pinkbike comment gold ever.
to round things up: if i pay that much money for something it has to be perfect. and i expect from someone wanting that money from me that he made sure that also the design is up to date and that i will be able to look at this bike for the next 5 years at least and thining "wow, that things works well and looks sick". but i think for most people thats not the case with this bike.
if the frame really works good and from reviews i think it does, then i guess the best thing they can do is get a industrial designer involved to make it look sick. i just hope the guy gets even more motivated now to show us what he is able to do!!
I worked an in industrial designer in the 90's and actually owned a bicycle manufacturing company and R&D facility. Loss of objective view is very important. Designer can become blinded by their design, and lose sight of the end user (purchasing customers)
In the 90's we were designing very functional and somewhat brutal looking suspension frames - materials and manufacturing had serious limitations. We used off-the-shelf Alcan aluminium alloy tubing for all our prototyping and team bikes, with a large box section down tube
We knew our bike worked great, but the brutal aspect turned off many potential customers. When we went to production,much of the work was on the aluminium alloy tube set, to improve the visual aesthetic to bring to market.
2) The author of this article does himself a disservice by posting this unusually disingenuous tirade. Much respect lost
3) I am not surprised at the backlash. Bringing a product to a market that so evidently relies on fashion for sales, without doing your homework is either myopic or arrogant. This applies to all sorts of industrial design, architecture, fashion etc. You cannot expect people to buy something that looks like its dated by 10-15 years. ( 25 years maybe as it can grab the retro/classic/nostalgia crowd.)
4) This bike is actually ugly. I am a designer. And while I am very aware that tastes span a broad range, and that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, there is nothing about this bike that will reveal itself to be timeless. The form and lines of this thing are forced and laboured over. Intrinsic beauty is possible but rare.
5) This bike is not, as the author implies, a case of function before form; evidenced by the try-hard carbon design. This is more accurately an example of function first, and amature-ish design tacked onto the the end of the process.
great points. as a former industrial designer (and frame designer) I appreciate the engineering and manufacturing, but the aesthetic looks imbalanced and very unattractive to my eye, and as you point out, dated. It reminds me of another UK bike company "Formula One" who came and went...
i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/giom6/Formula%201/DSC_0058-2_zpsc0882b14.jpg
As a composite structures engineer, I do not see any significant benefits to the singular massive top/down tube concept, obviously the most polarizing feature of the design. I see reduced torsional stiffness when compared to two smaller beams, resulting in more material/weight required to increase stiffness. There are likely noise and vibration issues (hopefully those walls are internally supported otherwise this thing will sound like a bongo drum). I understand it can be extremely hard to read baseless comments trashing something you've poured your heart and soul into, but perhaps it would be worth sharing any analysis or testing justifying the design or explicitly validating increased performance over more traditional frame designs. Otherwise, consumers have no choice but to focus on what they see.
"Just over a year ago I remarked that this 160mm bike was not shy of wanting to be a bike for all occasions. It weighed in just over 30lb, offered a progressive suspension design that’s easy to ride, settling well in corners, generating good drive out of the terrain, and giving a stable ride when booting it hard into deep breakers. It was however, horribly noisy."
My assumptions have been validated. Just over 30 pounds and horribly noisy? It appears the design doesn't support any improved function or performance.
As for the ARBR, see also: Ellsworth.
I visit PB for the articles, reviews, videos and photos and the contributions from the editors - not for the childish whiny snowflake commenters. Get off my lawn! lol
Go dig trail.
This is not what I was going to writthe first time.
What I was going to write is
"Looks like a Honda", which can be taken as "looks ugly as hell."
There is no deying that the Honda was one of the ugliest machines around. There is also no denying that it went very fast. There is also no denying that even for a company as rich as Honda it was too expensive and so it never came anywhere near to production. It was used as a tool to help learn more for motocross. This in a time where Mtn Bikes DIDN'T COST AS MUCH AS MX bikes (are we there yet??). So, is this the perfect bike? Will it make you go 3 seconds faster? Will it make you enjoy each ride 3.6% (or whatever 142/boost*100 is). POssibly. Will 99.9% of the users on here buy it? No. Because 99% of the users on here don't need to go boost % faster. They need 20$ more to replace their flanal shirt that they ripped when they cased their friend. Wearing a cool shirt, listening to your favorite song on 20$ earphones and riding with friends are actually proved to make you have boostfinity more fun.
There is no denying how we feel has a huge impact on how we ride. Is someone willing to spend 8563.65CAD$ (according to yahoo that is the current exchange rate Pounds to USD) to go 3 seconds faster. I doubt it. This gentleman is NOT HONDA. He likely is an incredible engineer and having worked in racing he likely has a million pounds. Not billions and billions like Honda. The pros care about 3 seconds. But they care because wining means a much better contract for them.Contracts paid for by Honda or SC of Specialized or CRC. The privateer, while they would like 3 seconds, will have to save the 4000$ difference in frame price to pay to get to races and fora new pan so they can cook their KD in their trailer. To me, even with the ludicrous prices of frames these days, it doesn't make any sense because as an amateur I don't need 3 seconds. I have a good time when I have a good time and there are good days and bad days. As a pro I have to ride with whoever is paying the bills and unless he charge 10K a frame and sells 500 of these he is not turning into the new enduro race team any time soon. If that changes I am sure the opinions of the readers here will change as well.
Why not try to make sense of religion too, while you're at it. This piece is pretty out of place, if you ask me.
Is this sports too often about fashions and trends? Do many riders buy bikes in the same way women buy shoes? Do we focus too much on gear and style? hell YEAH. But guess what PB, you're one of the biggest promoters of this trend.
A little healthy criticism with a dash of humor or cynicism is something normal grownups should handle, especially if they're designing a product which is aimed at this very specific crowd.
But the price is really going to make them fail as a business. You cant compete when your price isnt even in the ballpark of other frames. I thought yeti's sb looked /siunded great but at $500 more than the vpp bikes I know work Im not willing to take the risk, much less on this one.
I seem to remember a while ago an apparent one man show was trying to start a consumer direct business selling 29er hardtails. The geometry was not progressive in the long, slack that is popularthe PB user group. It was probably a more "traditional" steeper 29er geometry that worked well in the owner's neck of the woods. They probably shouldn't have tried to use PB, as it isn't his targeted user group and they got ripped up in the comments.
im a designer myself, not an engineer.
1. the 3 bolted plate where the shock mounted. That should never exist in the frist place, or atleast cover it with something.. if i can put it into words, its just a random scrap cus you wanna put 180mm shock in the first place, and change it midway to 160mm. so you use that wierd looking thing???
2. the Frame looks unbalanced. if you put all the parts aside. that frame looks like Petter Griffin had a VIctoria Secret's feet.
(the rear arm resembels VS's feet)
there's a designer rule to make something pleased to the eye of the people who watch. its either 1:2 2:3 and 1:1 for minimalist design. for the extreme rule (1:4 1:5).. well.. theres only few case you will pass if you're on collage. im not saying its bad. its just not for everyone. even MX have balanced design and engineering
3. i dunno if i was right or not. so correct me if im wrong, the flat surface of the frame seems sketchy to me. what if you crashed and the bike landed sideways. dosnt it like breaking a thin long board? thats why i prefer tubes, its stronger.
4. if you're inspired by MOTO, why dont you give it motor too? (E-BIKE) if this was an e-bike, than you might have the right audience and market.
5. i believe you can make a Comeback ARBR. *if your suspension and bike really works like Magic. learn from this problem and go ON!
I just don't understand him, at all.
Either way, it's all a matter of personal taste. And just like most people, mine vacillates. Was just driving the other day when I saw a Lamborghini Aventador followed by a Ferrari 488 and thought how poorly designed the Aventador looked compared to the 488. A lot of people would probably think otherwise.
also the extended dropper post makes it look ungainly and awkward, whereas the nicely lowered post in the dirtmtb pics makes it look more sleek and purposeful. interesting.
Look in the mirror before you judge us of only caring about looking cool when were out riding.
It would be one thing if this new bike had a superior and proven Test record, ir insanely light weight, or some new tech nobody else has...
But it's nothing new and kind of looks funky to most people. If ut was less money for comparable performance id still consider it. But likely you'll be able to buy something just as good for around the same money that doesn't look funky. So other than someone who lived nearby and wanted to support local I'm not sure what the buying argument is...?
common thread here.
Then of course, for lack of anything better, we as humans are used to judge something by the looks. Especially on the internet, that's all we have. But evolution has favored those who look what apple to pick from the tree, to look who is fit for a potential partner, to look which horse is fit enough to bring to war or work on your land. And those genes don't favor this bike. It looks like an old unfit horse with sagged belly and back. We're judging it as if it were a horse, comparing it to much sharper lookers. That's why sleek triangular shapes are considered good looking for something quick. Like a cheetah in sprint. Car manufacturers have been using this concept for years as well, as the front of the car resembles a face. A face that should resemble the way the potential customer looks at him/herself. The first Renault Twingo as a friendly/happy face, the first Peugeot 107 as a big smile, an Audi is typically a bit more intimidating. But back to this bike. To our unconscious being it looks like an old unfit horse and we judge it inappropriately.
I've to add that the bike seems to have been pictured using a wide angle lens, which is never going to flatter. Brake rotors and cassette don't seem to be aligned with the fork/frame dropouts, making it all look a bit more wonky. Just look at a catalog profile (from the side) picture of a bike that think looks good. Everything aligned, probably shot at axle height and from an appropriate distance. Whoever took this picture of this bike to give people a first impression mustn't have been someone who typically does this. As we see here, first impressions are important as many can't look past that.
dirtmountainbike.com/bike-reviews/trail-enduro-bikes/arbr-saker-tested.html
They've got three articles on that bike/frame.
Also look at how the bike is being photographed (at axle height). PB definitely messed up with their picture here. So much flash that it looks as if the rims have polished brake surfaces and of course the handlebar height wide angle (cellphone?) picture making everything wonky, rims oval, bike short and high (especially with the extended seatpost) and wheel components misaligned.
So, when I really think about it, it's pure idiocy and it holds our sport back when people care about "balancing" form and function for things that are purely affected by function. Do you actually notice what your bike looks like when you are riding it? If you answered yes, you're doing something wrong. Ride harder.
The problem is that there are so many high end bikes that perform well AND are beautiful that it really has a mountain to climb IMHO (no pun intended) - just look at the Unno coverage recently. I hope that this company is successful and wish the owners all the best, and so I hope that some positive reviews open some eyes as to why this bike differs from another, explains any advantages that the frame design may have, and why this bike may be worthy of consideration.
www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=195425
Plenty of people shelled out high dollar for these turds. They were ugly and had shit pedaling performance. But they still sold.
www.pinkbike.com/news/all-about-unno-2016.html
I spent little time looking at the ARBR article. Ugly is ugly, no matter how you sugar-coat it.
What we do know is price for just the frame (it ain't cheap) and the people behind this new bike.
Not everyone is going to agree on looks. It's subjective always has been and always will. I for one don't like the look and if I were to invest $$$ I want to be completely satisfied with my purchase. There's nothing wrong with that is there?
Function in number 1 for me but if I can choose between similar products I'll definitely buy one that looks better. As humans we have desire for nice things - it's simple as that.
As for ARBR I won't deny that it takes a lot of time and man power to design something that ugly with unlimited possibilities of carbon fiber. So now when we know that is goddam ugly I'm waiting for a proper review of this bike. If it rides half as good as hideous it is it might be one of the best bikes in the world
I don't like it because it looks like an ebike that will sound like an empty yoghurt jar tumbling down the mountain.
It might be good, but VHS won over BetaMax.
When people complain that the bike industry delivers only incremental improvements (e.g. Boost), they should realize that radically innovative change to bike design may look weird at first.I have no idea if this bike delivers on all or any of the designers' claims, but people should keep an open mind.
Now she may end up having the personality of a cow with bse (mad cow disease) but it was still the looks that 1st made you stop and look.
Unfortunately most of us are fickle and would not take a second look if we don't like what we see and having a good looking bike will always give us some deep inner pride.
However a bike needs to do a job and sometimes we need to look more than skin deep to find out what it is truly capable of doing.
Personally my new bike is no way as pretty as my old Yeti sb66 but it dose ride a lot better and it makes me smile, if I had not done a test ride I would not of brought it.
And yes the bike is UGLY because it has the design features of the HONDA and Zerode, but non of the functionality, i did not see any internal gearbox in that frame, nor any particular feedback from someone that actually rode the thing.So Mr.Aston i think you owe an excuse to all PB readers that you called 'bastards"...really lame.!.
I have worked in Specialized Concept Store (2 different store) and Giant Brand Store here in the UK.
Specialized always had, and still have, their marketing dialled and their bikes looking generally excellent. Great colours and graphics. Also, the ability to do limited edition frames and bikes in relatively small numbers (i.e. 250 globally).
But, in the past few seasons also as ££ has tanked, like many other big brands, the value for money has become quite poor. They've closed 2 Concept Store already in the UK this season, down to only 10 now. Grumbling from consumers about the legendary goodwill vapourising as costs have been driven down, with staff leaving and new managing director in the UK.
Giant however are selling well in the UK, they are opening Brand Stores, up to 26 at last count. Bike are good value for money (sitting just above the direct to consumer brands) and considered great performers. I heard Giant offset the bulk of the currency valuation shock for MY2017 in the UK using their $$ reserves and financial muscle. Big moves into 'Click and Collect', prototype ran in the UK now going to the USA and beyond.
Bikes generally look good, but some models have unpopular colours/graphics which can cheapen the perceived value of the bike. I have seen customers ready to drop £1800 on a bike except for the colour, they just can't do it if they don't really like / love the bike.
I heard they actually spend big money on focus groups, colours, etc. so its not accidental, also heard they will make a particular model contrasting, to move customers up the scale looking to the next model with better colour.
Expect to see direct to consumer brands do very well this season, and brands like Giant and Trek continue to take share from Specialized. The bikes all look pretty good, and value/performance is king in eyes of consumer wary of big ticket purchases with ongoing instability in Brexit situation.
I like more flare look to my bike frames. The less generic a design or shape of frame, the more
I'll be likely to part with moolah.
But in all seriousness, most I would say buy based on glowing media reviews.
So let's get this puppy above tested in the mags!
Let's face it, most if not all bikes nowadays are infinitely sweeter to ride and even look at if that's your cuppa ( guilty of this myself)
I think any generic looking frame Co. could be it tbh.
The look of the bike it part of the enjoyment.
But clearly looks do matter (you ain't going to tell me that frame shape resulted purely from FEA simulations) and so looks can be judged. And yeah, regardless of whether some of the comments were over the top, it's still a fugly bike.
Let us know how you want everyone to respond next time so you don't piss and moan next time.
Does everyone get 1st place trophies in mountain biking now?
Who the hell is dropping 3k on an ugly frame? Wtf?
The industry did this not your readers. What a dick!!!
Rock on to those that dare to buck the norm- otherwise we would still be in the dark ages.
just to be fare – other two bikes, she didn't find very attractive ("not as ugly as ARBR") were cube stereo and trek remedy.
my respect to the guy for the effort. i wish him not to give up and continue on working on this machine but keep in touch with the world
Good idea or bad idea?
How will pinkbike make money without the people who buy trendy bikes?
They should have atleast hired one industrial designer and paid a junior graphics guy ~ $500 to look over their work. This is what happens when you have a bunch of engineers sitting in a room for a couple of years repeating "this is awesome, this is going to be the best". You need to put effort into a lot of areas in order to launch a successful anything nowadays.
I'm sure the numbers are right and it rides like a mutha, but I can only hope that it fares aswell as the Subaru Impreza. Super pedestrian looks but an engine and drivetrain that make the unassuming exterior scream "you want this". Colin Mcrae, a giant spoiler and flames shooting out of its ass would help too....
As for a critique of the design. The negative space in the seat mast is directionless and way too triangular. The struggling for recognition top tube is completely lost in the monocoqueness of the downtube and collapses into the main pivot. Not a confident or strong looking suit. The downtube looks to have a faux bashplate that is molded into the main frame. Shuck out for a separate part please, I think the rest of the frame would agree. Swingarm tapers too uniformly but is not that bad. the pivots and hardware look really good and it definitely got a lot of attention.
Cant wait to see how this thing performs because that is where it most likely shines. Engineers need industrial designers as much as industrial designers need engineers. Please support them.
All this talk of fashion over function....
This boutique hyper bike reminds me of Empire bikes. Very unique, very technical in construction and VERY British. I work in the Alu casting industry an had an independent conversation with the Empire guys at a trade show an was VERY impressed by them.
Would I buy one? (if I could afford it)
Nah man it's just a basic single pivot.......
Similar to skinny jeans, the first time you see something that's outside the norm, you reject it. Unless... unless people you look to for style advise (everyone around you and key high-profile individuals) are wearing them. If Pros started showing up in videos riding this bike, winning races on it, it would be enough to convince most people to give it shot. Once there were enough of them out on the trails, it would start to look normal. And then.... no one would notice because they'd all be on to bashing the next out of fashion thing.
We (the technical users) find ourselves looking at stats rather than the drivel, you know, very capable, can hold its own uphill while destroying the downs...more critical reviews are essential.
I'm very Interested in any tweaks or advancements. But it is not a pretty bike, and resembles a catalogue buy from the late 90's. Regardless of function.
Lets see it perform and then maybe the credit will be given.
To expect thunderous applauds on unveiling is kinda lame.
If that wasn't the case we'd all still be riding the best bike in the world.
The Demo 7.
Because lets face it, 99.9% of us in the cycling community cannot even come close to what the engineers built the bike to do. That is why there are so many different 'types' of frames. Because lack of stress opens up ability to 'please the eye'. By and large we are just not good enough to warrant a real engineered bike. The pro's bikes are not even the same in geo as the production bikes and changing a pivot .5mm can do worlds for ramp rates/force and vector angles.
TLDR: Go ride your dam bike.
I sympathize with the builder for all the harsh judgement on the looks but if you're building a bike and you have so much time and money invested it would be wise to do a market test to see how people respond before going foward with a carbon mold and production.
Hard to judge a bike properly from pictures on the net, but the sans-decal, minimalist look that ARBR have gone for; makes it look really bare and dated.
Then some people may have refrained from being so harsh.
At the end of the day people will comment on what they have been presented with.
Likewise, this bike will require a drastic change in assumed bike aesthetics, a massive marketing campaign, and many reasons for the change from the norm. If people want it, it will sell...but you have to give them a reason to want something so different.
in Physiology, you can look good, have a nice posture and look like a king on the sidewalk, or in pictures, but us physiotherapists, we see all your little ugly spots and see all the deffects. no one has the perfect feed, and no one the perfect spine, and if you would see a beautifull spine in estathics ways, yo would be slightly disgusted.
Funktion over comes fashion in numbers. function is the faster...
I guess that most of you guys who wouldnt buy this, are more focused on looking fast rather than being actually fast
Cmon guys, ever hucked to flat ? do it, its fun
Take a good look at that ugly rear triangle on orange bikes????
This bike is ugly in my opinion, deal with it. Why do we have an article White Knighting for a bike?
????????????
If only you twats acted this way towards new industry standards. and 650b + 29ers.
"I try to find a balance, but fashion often sways me"
...to:
"All things being equal, I'll take the better looking bike"
www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=195425
Which is uglier the bike or the name?
Ha ha it always has been
nsmb.com/mtb-riders-critical-pricks
Also I really feel like that thing must act like a goddamn sail in the air. Can't imagine jumping on it would be confidence inspiring.
Additionally, the average rider isn't going to be able to tell the subtle differences between comparable 6" enduro frame, so of course the way the bike looks is going to factor in.
If you think it's good looking, great for you, but everyone has their own opinion.