Pinkbike Poll: Upsizing Your Frame?

Mar 13, 2015
by Paul Aston  
In recent years, the industry has been heard talking of shorter stems, increasing reach numbers and front centers getting longer. Antiquated designs that carried geometry over from our road cycling cousins that use long stems to place your body in an efficient pedaling and climbing position are quickly heading out of fashion. Stubby stems and lengthy frames are in. Mondraker and their 'Forward Geometry' have been leading the charge since Fabien Barel put a ten millimeter stem on his huge Summum downhill bike. Since then, some years passed with nothing much to speak of except for savvy riders choosing longer frames then scaling back their stems. Recently, however, bike makers have responded with vanguard brands now offering stem-corrected designs with much longer front-centers.

Nicolai Mojo
recent collaboration between Nicolai and FOX Suspension experts in the UK, Mojo have created this monster. The smallest option: 'Long', is similar sized to extra large frames from other brands, if that's too small for you, other options are 'Longer' and 'Longest' which are designed to work around stems between ten and 35 millimeters.


Why would you shoot for a longer frame and shorter stem? Well, if you're planning on any kind of interesting or technical mountain biking, the shorter stem will quicken up the steering of the bike and place your hands farther behind the front axle. These changes will give you more stability and less chance of flying over the handlebar on steep downhill sections. Of course, the frame size will need to be extended to prevent a sore lower back, and even worse, looking like the infamous French Hunchback when riding. Choosing a larger frame increases the wheelbase and offers yet more stability on the downs. The downsides? If you're racing cross country, or climbing mountains, then you might want to stick to the old fashioned approach. A longer stem will keep your weight over the front on steep climbs and front-wheel wandering will decrease.

Opinions appear to be divided into four camps:

1 - People who are planning on buying a bike designed around a long stem, buying a larger size to gain stability and reach, then switching out to a smaller stem to improve descending capabilities without sacrificing riding position.

2 - People who are happy with their current frame/stem length and will buy the same next time the new bike fairy beckons.

3 - People who have no idea what I am talking about, and will follow dealer or manufacturer recommendations for their body size.

4 - People who are looking to buy a bike with more contemporary geometry, designed around a longer reach and supplied with a short stem.


So...



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275 Comments
  • 261 6
 I've been buying large frames and putting on short stems for at least last 7 years, why is it now new?
  • 135 7
 Why is there no option for I've already been doing this.
  • 46 4
 Yeah, that would be "No,I bought the same size I always do, it works fine for me."
  • 35 1
 I don't claim to be an expert but I also don't blindly trust whatever the current fad is being pushed by manufacturers. Option for that please.
  • 11 2
 I've always preferred a longer frame, even though most bike companies recommend a medium for my height. Reach adjustment on a frame would be a huge selling point for me. I'm really hoping the Chris King offset headset will come to production.
  • 16 6
 @YTMat - It's new because bikes bikes are now being designed with short stems in mind. Those large frames you've been buying for years likely have a reach that's closer to that of a medium from a company like Mondraker or Kona.
  • 8 1
 my mega is a 20 inch frame that is for people between 6'3 and 6'5 im 5'9 with a 35mm stem and its perfect nice long front center short rear end sharp steering its a win win Smile
  • 16 3
 @YTMat , 'cuz you were ahead of the curve. Good boy. Now let the rest of us laggards enjoy what was hip once.
  • 8 3
 Yes, answered every Santa Cruz buyer not buying a new Nomad.
  • 13 0
 I have been doing this since 1998 ever since Gary Fisher came out with Genesis geometry on his hardtails.
  • 6 0
 Ive always purchased frame with long top tubes running a short stem. The most comfortable bike ive ever ridden was a 2005 Specialized enduro, the large had a 623mm tt back them. TT length on the Ibis I have now is shite.
  • 55 2
 chalk me up for the 'been there, done that' crew.

i buy what i like, not because its in.
#26AINTDEAD
  • 6 2
 my 09 sx trail came with a 35mm stem. then all the parts were switched to a rune. The geo of the two bikes are ridiculously close and the sx trail is 6 years older than my 2014 rune. Matching the reach made me upsize to a large the reality of this trend is that there are way too many bike companies and its way to hard to set yourself out all the time. So what you do is you get a group of people saying that one idea is best and its new and innovative, though most ideas really are never, and hammer that info into the public like no tomorrow. This way the gullible, the ignorant and those who like to spend purchase new bikes stimulating the industry and companies who cant, don't or wont innovate properly for market share as its easier, much easier to ride the wave of the mobs demands. ironically because they were told it was a better option, though nothing new.
  • 12 1
 I am buying the same size, but still putting short stems on them. Goes from XC feel to flickable trail bike feel without being too long.
  • 8 1
 Because the stand over is usually to high and thus you can't properly pump the trails even with the saddle smack down.
  • 14 4
 If you haven't noticed, the bike industry has not changed at all these past few years, products just started being sold exclusively and seperately and given new names. That goes for frames, wheels, sprockets etc. I remember a time when I could get a Shimano MegaRange cassette, now I have to buy a CNC sprocket from titanium pubes and the golden fleece for 70 Euro. Now they call buying the right frame for your size Upsizing. I buy what is comfortable, not what the fad is.Oh well.
  • 11 5
 ^are you on drugs?
  • 4 0
 Yeah I'm with you man, been doing it for ages. My pick would be "I buy my frames based on reach not top tube with the fact that I run a 40mm stem on all my bikes in mind"
  • 8 1
 This only works for those who need it. Not everyones legs and body and arms are the same ratio in length. Some people have long arms and short legs. Some vice versa. I have had my last two Nicolai's made with XL top tube lengths on L frame dimensions. Great for me since I have monkey arms, but one of my riding buddies who is the same exact height as me can't ride it. Way too long. Same as an XL would be for him. As well as way too tall. That said it would be nice if there were options when buying a frame like there is in clothes. 34 long pants, etc. Would suck though if that becomes the new standard and the standard size large is now long. All the guys with short arms will have to roll their top tubes up! To each his own.
  • 5 1
 That's why top tube and frame size are irrelevant without a reference. Reach Is how the bike feels standing so I always look at that figure most carefully.
  • 2 1
 @YTMat I use an ajusted frame and a short stem. Cause I have an injurie on my back.
  • 4 5
 I had a problem with my original purchase (aluminium alloy Stumpy 29'er) and Specialized upgraded me to a carbon fibre version of the same model, free of charge, under warranty.

This carbon model is 20mm longer in the effective top tube, its perfect with 70mm stem, as I actually found my original aluminium frame a little short with 70mm, but horrible with 90mm.
  • 3 1
 I've been doing this since I started riding. The only difference now is I don't have to accept too long a seat tube because I have arms that belong on an orangutan.
  • 4 1
 Ya I think anyone who knows how to bike and pays any mind to geometry has already been doing this. Glad it is catching on though, so maybe someday I can stop cringing at the stems I see on bikes in shops.
  • 2 1
 the new bronson has a roomy position. I've always sized up with them...glad I didn't this time.
  • 23 2
 Pretty soon people will be running 25" Top tubes with stems rotated 180 degrees on the steertube.
  • 5 1
 I'm 5'7" with a short torso….will these huge front centre's work for me?
  • 4 2
 Bmx has done this forever regardless of wheel size. MicrominijuniorexpertProxlxxl
  • 3 0
 Exactly. Who cares what's "in," get what works for your type ofriding and use it.
  • 4 4
 26" wheel, medium frame, 45mm stem and 720 bar = awesome. That would be my pick.
  • 1 0
 I have been doing this since I figured out you can get a shorter stem. Medium frame, 50mm stem seems to be a good all around for me but I'll go shorter if I plan to do more descending with it.
  • 3 0
 I had a 40mm stem on a medium Cannondale super v back in 1998/99 and I'm 6' 2" (yes I hit my knees a lot but it was fun) my friend went one better and had an Azonic zero reach stem on his Cannondale super v which had the steepest head angle and shortest topube, stop reading the Internet and worrying about trends ride what feels right for you at the end of the day
  • 1 0
 I'm 5ft 9" and my 2010 orange blood is a 15" frame but with a long reach and 40mm stem, fits me perfect and feels the same size as a 17.5" frame, but with lower stand over height, so the new fad is not really that new is it
  • 2 1
 I bought my first long travel frame a while back. It is a small 06' Stinky frame with a few parts from past builds (X9 from 2006, old Saint cranks, Pro II's laced to 721's) and a few new parts (X-Fusion Vengeance and Vector HLR Coil, Avid XO Trails, and Deity bars, stem, post, pedals, clamp and grips). I think I cut the bars a half inch on each side and like the width for how I use the bike. I also set the saddle so I could climb comfortably. It isn't ideal, but right now it is the only trailish bike I have with gears. When I drop the seat to an ideal height for FR/DH, the bars catch the seat. Really not a big deal, but damn this frame is short. If I had known what I know now, I would have bought a medium frame instead. I am 5'2" tall.
  • 5 0
 What's funny is that previously for years publications such as Mountain Bike Action would recommend that downhill riders and racers should possibly buy a size smaller bike to get a bike that is more 'manueverable'.

Why has it.taken the manufacturers so long to get here? Actually, some of them aren't here yet.
  • 5 0
 You should NEVER listen to what MBA recommends, in fact do the opposite.
  • 7 0
 I have found that the options on most of the polls on pinkbike are lacking a little. Never really fit in any of them, always seems to be an obvious last option that's been forgotten. And I get the impression I'm not the only person who thinks this. Maybe, if all else fails, the last option should always be 'i like lamp'.
  • 1 0
 Sized up to large frame from a medium on my Canyon Strive 2014, I'm 5'9" short and the large frame is much more stable on the descents and confidence inspiring on the techy bits compared to the medium, 620mm TT Smile
  • 2 0
 Wheres the option i'm 6'3" with a 6'7" wingspan so I cant buy a bigger bike If i wanted to, no one makes a bike that's to big for me (that I have found).
  • 2 0
 Ive been putting shorter stems on all my bikes for many years. Less broken collar bones etc. I put a 40mm stem on my 29r hardtail and ride all the usual North Shore DH trails no prob.
  • 4 0
 same here, large frame, short stem for years! but now its fashionable i may change and buy a bmx
  • 4 0
 Short stem and short frame like a bmx. I'm a French hunchback now and nobody told me?
  • 11 1
 Yup, I'm a real trend setter too. I hate when PB picks up on something I've been doing for so long and passes it off as new! I'm pretty sure I was first. In fact, I have found a local aluminum welder here (I won't share the name of the welder because I don't want PB taking credit for this) who has been moving my head tubes out like 6". I do this to all my bikes and have been for waaay longer that most PBers have been riding. This gives my bikes a 31" top tube length. I pair this with a 20mm stem (run backwards) and the feeling and control is amazing! My bikes finally fit me properly and perform up to my standards! FYI, I'm 5'6" tall. I have a mate who's 6'3" and I turned him on to my local welder and he had his headtube moved out 10" and now with a 38" top tube his bike finally fits too! He used to ride ok, but now he totally rips. When people at the trailhead tell us how cool we are, we tell them that we've ALWAYS been that way.
  • 5 1
 I hate the whole trend game. Find a setup that works, play with it from time to time to see if you like something better but follow trends? What is popular may not work for everyone. 650B isn't even a new thing but as with any other industry trends come around, fade out, then come back in. Years down the road the 26" wheel will be all the rage because it's lighter and more responsive. That will be coupled with longer stems and cut down bars. Even in DH, bars were narrow, then kept getting wider, and now are getting shaved down for urban DH.

Do what works for you and to hell with trends. If it doesn't work for you it isn't good for you no matter how well it works for someone else.
  • 4 0
 I think what's really needed on all polls is a "I was cool before cool" option. Pretty clear that everyone on this thread falls under option a, but that doesn't show how cool they are. Realistically that option kinda sucks because the seat tube and head tube often grow as much as the top tube or more meaning your bike still doesn't fit. Everyone should be happy with the way new frames are coming out whether you've been going big for years or not.
  • 2 3
 I think it's just irritating for many when something that has been common knowledge for a while among people who like to tinker a bit is only news when the bike companies finally 'invent' it.

It's like: "Yeah, well you were wrong when you thought of it, but now that Kona thinks it's a great idea, it's brilliant. Also you're still wrong, so upgrade for some reason."
  • 2 1
 I'm not all that stoked on this "longer top tube shorter stem." I really like the handling of a more compact top tube (i.e. size down) and steering response somewhere between a 40-60mm stem.
  • 2 1
 I'm guessing that you either don't ride steep terrain often or you don't mind going over the bars occasionally.
  • 1 1
 I long stem slows steering down @Swides
  • 1 0
 Called it.
www.pinkbike.com/news/ns-bikes-introduces-radical-new-geometry-for-mountain-bikes-2015.html
  • 2 0
 Swides, makes sense.
  • 52 1
 I was encouraged to buy a 21.5" Trek Slash instead of the 19.5" (I'm 6'1+"). Some people claim Trek fits small... some don't. I spent way too much time deliberating over this decision but I felt I was right in the middle (with Trek's endless sizing, why not a 20.5" right?!). In the end, the suggestion of the bike tech at the shop coupled with what I had read from from Lee McCormack (leelikesbikes.com) I decided to go with the longer wheel base and throw on the shorter stem. Not that I was a blind follower but Lee made a good point in a blog post of many people having a small bike bias and he really encourages the shorter stems for better downhilling braaapability. I climb trails because I like going down so this made sense to me and I do find that the longer wheel base, coupled with the short stem provide loads of stability and handling at speed. I didn't think I was jumping on a fad bandwagon but maybe inadvertently I was. At the end of the day I'd ask what are you out for? If you're focusing on going downhill go with a bike that allows you a shorter stem. If you love cleaning technical climbs get a bike that allows you to run a 100mm or 110 stem and kill those f$ckers. And if you want something in between that does both really well, get a bike that allows a 70 to 90 mm stem. At the end of the day it's about enjoying your bike however you like to do that.
  • 13 1
 Nailed it.
  • 3 0
 Absolutely. Finding what you like, that works best for you, should never be a fad. It's mighty fine life advice generally.

The thing I don't get here is that whilst riders have been trying to use larger sizes and shorter stems for close to a decade, if not longer, it is not until "the industry" (does that exclude riders then?) follows riders' leads and starts making longer front centre product lines that the idea of the same becomes legitimate. Even then, some have the temerity to call it a fad.

In this case, it is "the industry" that has taken far too long to catch up with what many descent seeking riders have known form well, quite some time.
  • 1 0
 Sometimes riding is about versatility not just downhill stability. I like short frames for non-biking trails like stairwells, or bush trails with stair hairpins. Long frames just don't fit on some non-biking terrain, like skateparks. That said, going fast on downhills takes a bit more attention when you dont have as much bike underneath, But short stems are a definite yes for urban.
  • 2 0
 Yeah I got an issue in that I have a very short torso with long legs . So if I follow this fad I won't have control over the bike . I like the shorter frame and a 70-80mm stem as it means I don't over stretch my back and still have options to shorten my stem if I want . If I got a longer frame with the minimum length of stem I don't have this option . I also like being over my forks when I ride . the longer stem also slows down my steering a little and helps to counter the leverage forces put on the front wheel from rocks . I could do that with wider bars but narrow single track between tight trees doesn't give me the option to ride with 800mm bars .

People need to get bikes that suite their shape . I'm 6ft with a 33-34 inch inside leg and short body I've yet to find a bike the "right size chart" that doesn't over stretch me (apparently I should ride a large but mediums are the best fit)
  • 38 4
 I'd buy the longest frame I can, simply because I'm 6'5" and bikes are generally meant for little people. Unlike me.
  • 10 1
 So much this. I am 6'5" as well and ride an XL banshee Rune with 70mm stem. Currently my frame has 635mm top tube. I want something closer to 700mm...
  • 5 1
 I'm 6'3" with about a 33" inseam. I've been buying XL frames for the last 5 years for my AM bikes, but still run a L on my two DH rigs. I would really like to see a L with an XL reach, as I do have to compromise the pedaling position a bit, so it seems. The seat tubes are too long/tall on my XL's, and too slack. As I use the dropper, it puts me farther and farther back making climbing difficult.

They used to make X-Long BMX bikes in the 80's that catered to this need (I had a Robinson XL Pro and a Redline PL20). I think a Large geometry frame with an XL top tube would be perfect for me.
  • 8 2
 Enduro 29 XL with a stock 70mm stem. Perfect size for 6'5".
  • 5 1
 I'm 6'5 as well. So basically have to choose the biggest frame that companies make. Just upgraded to a Niner WFO xl frame. 800mm bars and a 50mm stem (I think?) . Seems to work for me.
  • 5 2
 6'8 on an Enduro 29 XL too, seems about the biggest. Had a canfield jedi too, was about the same size.
  • 5 2
 Check out the geo for mondraker crafty - think you'll find that it's a bike that's a good fit for you.
  • 8 2
 Everyone is about equality these days. Wheres the love for tall people? Airports, showers, clothes, AND bikes to name a few...
  • 7 0
 Can we please have a return to longer head tubes in XL? Dear manufacturers: you are not saving tall people from anything by making XL bikes with 100mm head tubes. Well maybe you're keeping the spacer manufacturers in business and ensuring that big bikes don't ever look sexy (here's looking at you, Niner). Thanks to Specialized and Yeti for realizing this basic fact about tall people and making XL bikes that look and fit great.
  • 2 0
 Monraker Crafty has a 680mm top tube in XL. It's the longest bike I know of
  • 3 0
 Nah the revised version has a TT of 710, it's even bigger in xl
  • 3 0
 Agreed, although i don't like a super long front center, these long frames are great! I remember looking at a bike recently, a lapierre i think, where the XL was just 10mm longer with a taller headtube and extra long stem. ARRRRGH! That doesn't help me!

Regarding short headtubes- Azonic still sells bars with 3" of rise. Love them- makes the bike fit right with less spacers to smack my danglies in to.

I'm propping all my fellow tall guys, we need more attention.
  • 4 0
 I'm only 6' but I feel for you guys. Even I ride XL's sometimes. You guys need more options and hopefully now that the industry is cathcing on you'll get some decent frame sizing. Also, figure out your reach and forget top tube length - reach is much more logical.
  • 4 5
 I am Yao Ming and I ride a tricycle.
  • 1 1
 @scottzg "I'm propping all my fellow tall guys, we need more attention"
Good idea, done!

I'd also ike to see a bike designed around 180mm+ cranks for us too! It's simple physics - we need more leverage. After 6'3"+ and >200lbs it's a whole different situation.

I DON'T THINK I'LL EVER BE STRONG ENOUGH TO RUN A 1X ON MY AM BIKE (without running a 28T or less up front to do the climbs and sacrificing the top end speed). Now that 650b is the standard, a bike in XL and XXL made for longer cranks is definately possible.
  • 4 1
 @jlhenterprises "I DON'T THINK I'LL EVER BE STRONG ENOUGH TO RUN A 1X ON MY AM BIKE (without running a 28T or less up front to do the climbs and sacrificing the top end speed)"

That might be true but it's not from being tall
  • 2 1
 My point was that longer cranks would be proportionate to people over 6' tall or over 200lbs. Many of the hills here are 20% grade, haven't seen too many big guys do them on a 1X and if they do it's a very small front ring. I like to run a 34 or 36 front, so all my AM bikes are 2X10.
  • 1 0
 You should try a set. Mine were a waste of money- more rock strikes and an insignificant gearing change is all they offered. Nothing like having a properly long top tube, fuck yeah new skool geo.
  • 1 0
 not til I find a bike designed for it. I had 180 & 185's on my BMX when I was a kid. I won everything
  • 1 0
 I also ride the XL Enduro 29 but I have a 35 mm stem... because... I have T-Rex arms
  • 1 0
 Even at my height i feel a long stem has me stretched too far forward. Must just be used to short top tubes my whole life Smile
  • 1 0
 Is this thread still about bikes?
  • 11 0
 I seem to be Inbetween a medium and large. My current bike is a medium because I like the way the smaller frame is more manoeuvrable. However for my next bike I fancy trying a large and putting a smaller stem on so I'm not increasing my reach.
  • 1 0
 I'm in the same boat. I made the jump from Med to Large and swapped the stock 100mm stem for a 60mm. Heaven. Everything feels right now.
  • 1 0
 I'm just in the process of doing this, have got a commencal meta 2012 in medium with 50mm stem and have order a large banshee spitfire and plan to run a 40mm (or less when the new renthal 32mm comes out). I ended up looking at the geometry of the mondraker foxy and bird aeris to work out whats bests. Worth looking at the reach, seat tube length and not just the top tube length
  • 7 1
 With respect to size I am essentially Joe Average: height (5'11"), weight, inseam, waist, shoe size...you get the idea. I don't get why most sizing charts and respective bike sizes don't reflect this . I know Kenyans as a bunch are taller than Peruvians, but it seams that frame sizing has been a bit too small across the spectrum for way too long. Why aren't medium frame for people 5'10" to 6'2". That seems medium to me. Also, why do people get so caught up in stem and top tube dimensions varying 5 or 10mm when nobody ever mentions how the seat is positioned on the post?
  • 3 0
 Exactly my situation. I just up-sized to a large for the first time and threw on a 40 mm zero rise stem. Reach is identical to my last medium. Loving it.
  • 1 0
 I'm 6' tall with a large 2013 Stumpy expert evo (26") with a 50mm and a 780 bar. Its a touch short for me but close enough Smile
  • 11 1
 Just bought a brand new bike. I've always ridden a size "L" so I bought a size "L". I have no idea what the TT length or stem size is, and I don't care. Bike feels good and I couldn't be happier.
  • 5 0
 Ah see, there is a chance you could be happier though Wink
  • 8 0
 It's a really interesting area; massive reach and wheelbase plus super short stems - this is def challenging the classic G2 geometry of short rear and long front centres.

The Nico/Mojo bikes are the longest in the industry - 1300mm wheelbase plus is immense. Stable bikes but are they fun? I think Chris Mandell at Kona has done the best and most accessible interpretation of forward geo.
  • 2 0
 I agree. I rode a 13 Kona Process, and I thought the geo was dialled. I've always run shorter stems though, so I might be biased. I've found it challenging to find bikes that have long enough top tubes, but that are still short enough in the seat tube region to slam the seat for the sketchy stuff.
  • 2 0
 I came off a Tallboy LT in XL, to a Process 153 in L. Two very different types of designs, both in suspension operation and geometry. The XL Tallboy was 1" longer in the rear end, but 2" shorter in the front center (which makes the L 153 1" longer wheelbase). The Tallboy was phenomenal at climbing, but was so tall (even with the seat dropped) that I never felt good going fast downhill on anything rough or technical. I don't know what the reach numbers are, but the L 153 feels a bit shorter.

The 153 is awesome going downhill and at speed, and handles jumps and rough stuff very well. But I think this type of geometry does come with the trade-off of diminished climbing aptitude. I find it especially noticeable on technical climbing. However I, for one, willingly accept that trade-off...it's too much fun when pointed down!

With more understanding of what each type of geometry design will offer, buyers can make smarter decisions about which bike they should pick. Everything else seems like it's just marketing buzzwords.
  • 11 1
 if my gentleman sausage doesn't smash again the top tube then i call it good.
  • 10 2
 "The downsides? If you're racing cross country, or climbing moumtains, then you might want to stick to the old fashioned approach."

Well obviously I'm going to be riding up mountains on my mountain bike you spleen.
  • 11 1
 PinkBike- just tell me whatever is best for Enduro and I'll buy that.
  • 5 2
 mmm... since Enduro can be also called Stuttering Downhill, because they ride WC DH worthy stages with uphill sprints, you should take a carbon Downhill bike as it is, put air shock with lock out into it, swap tyres to EXO or Super Gravity, lower the air sprung Boxxer or 40 with spacers by an inch. Finally you should fix some weird dropper post reaching forward, that will put your saddle in a place where it would be if the seat tube angle was 75 degrees. In this way you'd get geo that everybody wants, weight would be no further than 3lbs more. Convert Downhill bike to Enduro bike will be my next article! SPOILER!
  • 8 0
 Where's the poll option: "This is old news, I'm already riding a bike designed around a short stem."?

I've been riding my Kona Process 153 since the fall of 2013.
  • 5 0
 I bought a smaller frame recently, and still kept a 50mm stem. I have way more fun with the shorter wheelbase. I may buy a larger frame later, But I HAD a larger frame, and though it was more stable, I felt it sacrificed mobility and agility.
  • 5 1
 Long WB, long chainstay enduro style bikes w short stem are already outdated in my view. Great for monster trucking straight lines but if you like working the terrain and having a fun whippable bike they are absolute dogs. Factor in the ridiculous prices and I'm moving on to agressive 27.5 hardtails w/ big fork, super slack HA, short wheelbase, short chainstay. Like 415mm short. Over the top fun, simple, cheap and 9 times out of 10 easy to whoop ass on the latest Carbon Enduro bro sleds.
  • 2 1
 agree
  • 4 0
 I have changed the cockpit of my bike to match my body wants and help with the terrain I predominantly ride. I have found with an short stem the wandering is so annoying that I will give up steering on the "downs". I run an slightly longer 80mm stem. Kind of finding the best of both worlds. The hunch back is funny. I tried an short stem for a few weeks. Too many downsides for me.
  • 1 0
 Yeah seriously, I ride a 50mm stem and the front of the bike is very nervous. I don't mind it as I like the precise handling when navigating technical terrain but anything shorter than 50mm would bring it into sketchy territory. I already like my bars width so I don't have any wiggle room to tame a shorter stem either. I'm not against the longer TT with small stem idea IF the bike was designed for it but taking a size larger and sticking a smaller stem might not always be a smart move.
  • 4 0
 Nope it all depends on riding style. Call my style what you will, but after years on a BMX bike as a kid, I ride with weight more toward the rear. The long TT short stem bikes would require me at 47 to relearn to ride with a lot more weight on the front- very unnatural to me.
  • 3 0
 Is it right or wrong?
Who knows, but it's a better proposition than ever-so-slightly bigger wheels.
Good on Nicolai and Mojo for trying something which much actually make a difference rather than just make our stuff obsolete.
  • 3 0
 Soz, I remember the craze for cutting our bars down to stupid sizes in the late 80's one of my mates had his so narrow his canti brake levers touched each other in front of his 120mm stem! As soon as we started DH'illing we learnt our lessons! Since then it's been buy a stock bike and buy a short stem at the same time. As for uphill, takes a bit more body strength but it worth it not going otb on a regular occurrence!
  • 3 0
 Btw moving the seat as far forward on the rails as it would go so you could ride uphill is another 'for year's tip, maybe that will be next year's thing. Tbh, glad frame manufacturers have caught up but with all the "mondraker were first" comments why was my 2009 foxy shipped with a barge of a stem that got swapped for a sunine v1 before I could even ride it?
  • 3 0
 I'm 5'10" and I ride an XL RM Alitidue with a 50mm stem and i love it. All rockys stand over hieght is the same from their XS frames up to their XL frames, I rode a large Altitude and still didn't have the reach I wanted so upsized to the XL and I can honestly say it's perfect. For what's it's worth I've been told that Rocky mountain frames run on the shorter side.
  • 2 0
 It's an interesting argument for sure. Not just total height, but inseam size, stem angle, headset stack, and riding style are just some of the many factors in bike fitting. Is a longer bike with shorter stem an advantage, maybe in some situations. But it's not the end all be all for every rider out there.
  • 2 0
 ^exactly. It's almost impossible to account for all of the geometric variations between all the components. Are bars situated for max sweep? Is the seat centered on the post? How many stem spacers do you run? Small adjustments like that might make more difference than a 10mm difference in the top tube.
  • 3 1
 Mountain biking is about mechanical sciences in general
Numbers and physics don t lie
Why it took so much time for everyone to accept short stem/wide bars/ long top tube, low BB , short stainstays, 27.5
1X11 , telescopic seatpost, tubeless tires
It s all part of the progression of our sport
And it s the way to go ...
  • 4 0
 Are they like chainstays? But.. stained?
  • 4 0
 I still haven't accepted half that stuff.
  • 2 0
 By "old" measurements I was strait perfect for the size Small bikes. Now I have a problem and only few brands fit me well. I still wana ride small, short in reach, fun bikes.
I blaime this new age thing (endurrrroSmile for taking Fun out ouf riding bikes.
  • 1 0
 Only if you buy one.
  • 6 0
 Been on the bandwagon sence 09
  • 2 0
 I recently bought a new Trance SX. The TT is a 1/2" older than my old trail bike, and I like how it feels. I also demoed a new Reign, which has a TT that's 1" longer than my old trail bike. The Reign felt like too much, it was great for descents, but I couldn't get in the right position on the bike for climbing. So, for me it's moderately longer TTs are great, but really long "enduro" TTs aren't great for all-around trail riding.

The Reign really did feel great on descents though, and I wouldn't mind trying geometry like that on an 8" bike. Take a current gen DH bike with a 63 HA and a 23" TT, and change it up to a 64 HA with a 24" TT, and I think it would ride pretty nice.
  • 4 2
 I did increase the frame size to get longer reach but I did not go down in stem length. After experimenting with 3 stems and 2 handlebars I settled for 60mm/7 backsweep Renthal on FS and 70mm /8 backsweep Answer on HT(which give nearly identical position of grips in relation to steerer axis.) 50mm stem on Answer was making the bike too nervous to my likes at lower speeds, and such observation was similar on my previous frame which was full inch shorter. Reach is one thing, setting up your riding stance and the way you shift weight back and forward, but stem length controls characteristics of a whole bike when you turn bars - bikes are 4 or even 5d, not 3d, and I get impression that many see geometry as a 2d drawing and excel table next to it. My bikes are both 26" but really short stems do work wonders for 29ers, turning those intrinsically too stable bikes into playful beasts.

One thing is important, fabs are for everybody, you are not everybody, there will be a solution unique for you, fab can give an indication but never settle for: it's better cuz them good riders say so, because it makes perfect sense. Try different options, borrow bikes, stems, handlebars, experiment and give them things some time. Trust your feelings, trust yourself Big Grin

So... I will buy an even longer frame but I don't know what stem I will be running as it depends on many other things like wheel size, fork travel or head angle Smile
  • 2 0
 That was pretty much my thoughts on the subject. I ride a 50mm one and I find the steering to be perfect (after getting used to it being a little twitchy, coming from DH). Any less than that and the front wheel wandering would be a mess on the climbs. If the bike is designed to handle great with a short stem then so be it but getting a larger frame only to put a shorter stem on it seem to be asking for trouble. Like you said, there are tons of things that factor into handling and looking at only one characteristic is short sighted.

Every time something "new" comes out, they make it sound like it is the best thing for everyone. Could it be possible that we ride different terrains with different styles? Stability seems to be all the rage these days. How much stability do you really need? I understand that for a DH WC rider it might make a difference but if you're going to go ride all mountain with your friend, how much is too much? Is that long ass wheel base really warranted? What about getting the rear wheel around obstacles? What about getting the front wheel up over rocks/roots? what about climbing? What about front wheel manoeuvrability/wandering?
  • 2 0
 I don't understand this whole go up a size thing. I've been riding a medium specialized enduro 26 with a short stem and I'm five ten and the bike felt good and I bet if I was two inches shorter it would feel huge, whatever floats your boat I guess.
  • 2 0
 The Enduro is a pretty wild bike. I have a 2011 model and even though it's a few years old it has the long front and short back that they are talking about here. So how about that, you were 'enduro' and you didn't even know it.
  • 1 0
 lol
  • 2 0
 I now buy large frames (last 2 bikes) as medium always seemed cramped for my riding style. I've used stems of 50mm for the last 10 years. I'm just under 6 feet tall and always thought it was because I was between manufacturers sizes! Large is a lot more comfortable a pedal stroke for me.
  • 2 0
 Yeah the custom frame comments are more to the point. I ride a medium-sized frame because I'm more willing to give up the stand over height instead of the reach. Plus a slightly longer wheel base is better than one that's to short. Transition is doing neat stuff with their geometry by not only lengthening the front triangle but shortening the rear triangle as well. Everyone equates simplifying manuals to shorter chain stays but tweaking that reach with longer top tubes and shorter stems helps out also. A riding tip that made manuals and "American style" bunny hops way easier for me is to NOT pull the front wheel up by the handle bars but to PUSH the front wheel out from under you. By doing that while you pump down on the pedals is the hot trick and that new school geometry helps that instead of fighting against it.
  • 2 0
 How can we be going all long in the ETT but Kona and Transition (and others) are going back to 18.5" seat tubes. WTF. That extra inch of seat tube means I don't have to compare minimum insertion lines on dropper posts to see if one is marginally longer than the other. FYI the 150mm Reverb Stealth has an extra 3cm of usable post compared to a 150mm KS Lev.
  • 2 0
 to short a stem and your weight is to far behind the front axle. for down it's good but for climbing not so much (specially long climbs). comes down to what you want. just no one solution,whatever they try to sell you it's just not that simple...
  • 2 0
 I'm not buying a 'larger' frame, I'm buying the same frame size with modern geometry utilizing a longer reach and shorter stem. My frame size is still Large, but the fit of the frame has changed. The wording of the poll would indicate I'm now buying an XL frame if I buy into this.
  • 2 0
 the fact on my road bike, I'm 'forced' to ride 2cm larger frames because of season discount deals on bigger frames, compensate it with shorter stems, and I never feel 'at home' compared to my old, smaller frames. I'm 5'10'' and ride a 52cm road. Nowdays most sales people pushes me to go 54, but I'm just comfortable with 52.
  • 2 0
 I bought a bike.....it felt right. it seems it's a long bike with a short stem I don't care it fits perfectly for me out of the box. on a side note I had no idea what size bike I rode, I just grab a bike that feels right, and go. I sold my last bike thinking it was a medium when I measured it it turned out to be a large. All this talk about wheel size, bike size, stems, etc is just out to lunch, ride a bike, like a bike buy the bike, end of story.
  • 2 0
 Not really getting on the bandwagon per se, I am sized for most "large" frames, but I ride a lot of really technical terrain and like the feel of medium frames. I just bought and built up a knolly chilcotin and wanted to try a large. I got 2 solid rides on it before i wrecked and tore some ligaments in my wrist. Love the way the bike feels, not sure yet if it is the frame size or suspension configuration, or both. But the bike handles the fast stuff and turns like a WCDH rig. Climbing is typically fantastic knolly traction and hook up. So yeah, large frame, 70 mm stem, feels great.
  • 2 0
 Long top tube seems better for down hill racing however we are just normal people instead of professional riders, and our down hill bike is not only for us to compete in the race, for example sometimes I take my down hill bike to the dirt jump park and that's why I need a downhill bike with short TT and straight fork. Being faster on the mountain is important for me, but not everything.And that's why I won't choose 650B.
  • 2 0
 I'm 6'3" and have a medium cove frame. most people would say its too small for me, but I just love its chuck and huck-ablity! smaller bikes are just that bit easier to throw around. Having said that, I do want the downhill stability that a longer/larger frame would provide which is why I will opt for something bigger next time round. (keeping my older smaller bike for hitting the jumps)
  • 2 1
 I prefer a slacker front for Stability , short stem, wide bar, short frame to make up in Manuverbility ,short chainstay for pedal ability! So WaHoo to You who just,Think they thought up the wheel case it's all been done Under The SUN Boys and Girls ! Personally there is to much label going into what should be,and just let Personal preference be your Master with some Tech involved of course! So Let It Ride My fellow Pedalers !
  • 4 1
 Scotech.. you're drunk!
  • 2 0
 7'0" and riding a Ventana with a 27 inch top tube...DH bike has a 27.5 inch top tube. Long top tubes are a necessity, but I think long head tubes are really underrated for taller riders..
  • 1 0
 I downsized my recent frame size. Went from a large Heckler to a medium Solo, same size stem of both bikes 50mm. I like to huck all the way down and ride back to the top. Funny thing is that both bikes are still fun to ride and both are very comfortable. I probably sound like I'm insane to all you...
  • 1 0
 Nah I think it's different riding styles and terrain too.
  • 1 0
 What year was the heckler? And the solo? If the Heckler was old enough is it possible theyre actually about the same length? Or possibly the solo is larger in medium than a large older heckler. Get me? Seems like wheelbases have grownloads in the last three years or so.
  • 1 0
 Heckler is 2010. 23.5 inch TT vs 23 for the Solo so not much in it at all. But the Solo has a much lower head tube height vs the Heckler so the riding positions are quite different. All in all I can ride most medium and large frames. I find it pretty funny when people get all wound up about slightly different bike sizings and say things like "i feel like hunch back on the medium frame but the large felt good"
  • 1 0
 You forgot to mention, that a longer bike will also be less playfull. If you only want to go fast on downhill, then go for the longer frame and the longer wheel base. But if you also want a bike that is playfull somehow, then don't go for a too long frame.
In my opinion, this all comes from the enduro hype...people want bikes which they can race nowadays...although most of them will never do a race at all Wink
  • 1 0
 Anyone know if the Spec Enduro frame is considered a "long" frame? I run a large with a 40mm stem, and at 6'2" it fits perfectly. I may have subconsciously addressed the long frame topic, or maybe it's because i've always run sub 50mm stems on my bikes.
  • 1 0
 Yea, I've got a 2011 model Enduro Evo with the old size wheel. It has as long a top tube as most of these 'new school' bikes and the short back end to match. 627mm top tube and 430 (or so) chainstays. With big bars and a 35mm stem and it rules (I'm 180cm). Love that bike!!
  • 1 0
 It seems so, the thing wheelies so easily yet descends like a champ. I'm gonna end up putting a 50mm stem and wider bars to stretch out lower over the bike.
  • 1 0
 Yea? Mine wheelies a bit shit... (May be the rider)

It's a great bike. Spent a summer living in Vancouver with that bike. You could take it to Whistler on Saturday and rail the park and then do a 100km trail ride on Sunday.
  • 1 0
 It's a great jack of all trades for sure My only worry is that the Float shock gets seriously abused riding lift accessed park. Wish I could throw a coil on there for DH
  • 1 0
 the 2011 and 2012 EVO models were exactly that! Larger 170mm Fox Vanilla at the front and Fox Coil at the back.You could buy a kit that contained the new coil shock as well as a new linkage to make it fit, but I'm not sure how compatible it is with later model Enduro's.

www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/archive/2012/enduro/enduroexpertevo
  • 1 0
 That's very appealing, from what i've read the coil transforms the bike. It seems Specialized no longer sells the Evo upgrade, besides it's $600. That's nearly what I payed for the frame
  • 1 0
 I like the feel of a shorter stem wider bar, but not the way that felt on my existing frame as it had me to bunched up on steep climbs. My new Chromag Rootdown will be about a cm longer than my old frame, and I'll be putting in a 60mm stem to keep my reach the same as I had with a 70mm stem. Pumped!
  • 2 0
 Being over 6ft tall, the only bikes that feel comfortable to me have 24"+ top tubes... I like the longer bikes, but its probably not for everyone. My buddy Frank is 5 foot short and call my rides monkey bar bikes.
  • 2 0
 Being 6ft9 and having few options at hand, it's nice to see that companies are making bigger bikes. Well there has been larger options in XC nothing in the proper riding styles (DH/FR/END)
  • 1 0
 I'm 6ft 3 and ride a size large-20inch frame with a 60mm stem and 720 bars,I can climb and decend with the same comfort and confidence,no wandering wheels or bucking bronco's! It's a 1105mm wheelbase and a 610mm top tube. It just feels right so il stick with it!
  • 1 0
 I'm 6'1.5, and feel great on kona/gt large, intense 29 larges, but need an xl for most other brands. I like tt @high 24s-low 25, reach @18"...all with 35-50 stem.
I'd probably own a large Carbon process 153 if existed.
  • 2 1
 It's interesting the way things increase in increments, head angles, travel and now reach figures and TT lengths. What's striking about most forward geo bikes is not just the stem but the way the saddle is shifted forward to it's absolute maximum position; I think the saddle tells us a lot.

The increase in reach shows a clear bias towards out of the saddle riding; namely tackling technical terrain down some sort of gradient.

I think bikes could be defined by pedalling bikes and non pedalling bikes in some ways, if reach figures are anything to go by on these Nico/Mojo bikes
  • 3 0
 Where's the "I'm at the top end of the size scale anyway so I will just keep on doing whatever I need to do so my bike fits right" option ?
  • 1 0
 I personally have been a fan of the long top-tube, short stem ever since the days of my Santa Cruz Super 8 with its 24"+ long top tube. Almost anyone could ride the bike (not just me, the 6' tallish guy). 5'-6" no prob. That was what, 13 years ago?

If any of you look at the 2015 Transitions as an example. And I mean, any of them, you can see longish top tubes, short stem, slinky height. Pretty much the same thing between bikes besides the amount of travel. This is a good thing for most riders, IMO.
  • 2 1
 60mm stem and an 760mm wide handle bar is good for me on an enduro /all mountain bike, ihave this setup for my Reign X1 and it is stable in downhills, bike parks and not bad for uphills and still can climb. For frames Large I did them but hard to maneuver in corners and heavy, I would prefer small size that longer its good to maneuver and good going down for me.
  • 1 0
 I'm 6'4" with 34" inseam. I got a Process 153 XL and it is awesome; the short chain stays make it cage direction like a DJ bike and the long reach makes the bike super stable. You don't notice the enormous wheel base. The bike still climbs well for its weight and having a 40 mm stem. I suggest getting out to a demo day or a shop that stocks something with "forward geometry".
  • 1 0
 I think frames should be designed around relatively short stems, so in that sense having bikes with longer reach is good. At the same time though, I've seen a lot of people take the new longer reach trend to mean that bikes are now designed so that the rider is more stretched over the bike. Seems a bit ridiculous personally.

The way I see it: If you like how a bike fits/rides with a short stem, it fit's you. That doesn't change just because bikes are now designed around shorter stems, it just might mean that maybe you should ride a medium instead of a large now. Ride what feels good.

(I'm glad tall people finally have bikes that fit now though)
  • 1 0
 'm 5.6 (1.73m) and i ride a Large frame.
My arms are way too long, therefore i love the "new" frames combining longer reach with shorter seattubes.
I've been riding small and medium sized frames before and liked them as well. I usually rode them with much wider bars though.
So in my opinion you got many options. Depending on proportions, riding style, trails you ride and things like handlebar with and so on.
  • 1 0
 Process 153 owner here, this last year of riding has been my most fun (and fastest) in 15 years of mtbing, I used to think a smaller bike was more chuckable, I was so wrong - a shortish rear, short stem, wide bars, long front centre , I'm not tall- 5'8 , and Im converted
  • 1 0
 Whilst it was nice to feel part of a small club, I won't miss other peoples long stems. Handle like shit. Props.. no uberprops! to anyone who can let it rip and properly shred with a stem longer than 70mm. Fifty maximum for me..
  • 3 2
 wow so according to this most mtb frames i have been riding are basically similar in the front length to old road bikes.....what a crock of s#it.....this was talked about and factored in in the early 90's and now its like it never happened.....i think people are wising up to all this pr led bulls#it.....i am not having another pointless apparently "new standard" fed to us....i am up for changes that improve stuff but i am old enough to remember this happening the first time round.....dont buy into this nonsense.
  • 3 0
 " another pointless apparently "new standard" fed to us"

this is quickly becoming a catchphrase.

Bike tech has changed; suspension works (exists), forks track straight, brakes stop reliably, and tires have massively evolved; it makes sense to revisit designs that crave straight line speed now that we can have parts that can work at that speed. The early 90s was a loooong time ago, riding has changed a lot too.
  • 1 0
 While my cannondale prophet is by no means modern, I was riding a medium and found a large front triangle. So I re-built the bike up and the ONLY thing that changed was the 1 inch longer front-centre. The bike did everything better with the exception of real tight singletrack. The longer bike was smoother over the rough stuff just felt better all around. Funny how for decades the rule was to ride as small bike as possible - this was MTB gospel. When all along it was totally wrong.
  • 1 0
 I have a large size frame with a short stem from 2012, which is probably a size up for me. So, if I buy a bike with "corrected geometry," what corrections are being made? Is it that now, I can buy a medium sized bike designed with a larger front center? I know about reach numbers but I wonder if whatever is corrected helps contribute for a better ride, rather than upsizing with an older frame..
  • 1 0
 For the longest time I used to kid myself into thinking I was a medium. Then one day I looked at how high my seat was with my Reverb dropped all the way and realized that I needed to be on a large. Ever since then it's been the right size for me.
  • 1 0
 6'2" and i ride an xl morewood jabula and xl zula. I run a 75 mm stem and 800mm bars on both. I would love to run a 35-50mm stem but there are no bike long enough for me to do so. Its much better than the 100-135mm stems i used years ago.
  • 1 0
 Nothing new. Back in 2004 I bought a Gary Fisher Cake with G2 geometry. 19.5" frame with a 25" ETT. Pretty much have replaced every component on it, but frame is still going strong. Bike feels as modern as anything I have demoed recently.
  • 1 0
 I ran setups like this, short stem/long TT frames, in the mid 90's. My little brother and I ran BMX stems on our old bikes back in the mid 90's. That was with raked out 70 degree headtubes, so it felt way funky by todays standards. However, my oldest bike, a 2001 SC Chameleon, was built to accommodate a 140mm fork (sweet spot is 120, I run a 130mm) with 67 degree HT at 130mm and was designed with a slightly longer TT compared to my previous bikes. Hows that for forward thinking? That was 14 years ago! There were only a few 140mm forks back then.. It's setup as my freerange XC bike and I run a 70mm x +6 degree stem and 10mm rise 710mm bar. Before that setup it was a play bike/ DS with a 50mm x 15 rise stem with a 40mm rise DMR 5-butt bar setup. Even with the longer/lower stem/bar setup today, it's stable and can easily be manualed. Still have to weight the hell out of front wheel climbing (fork length) but I'm gonna say it's not any less unstable or twitchier than my newest bikes, a 60mm stem, 750mm barred 26er and 29er (29er may not be comparable here) designed around long forks and longer TT's and short stems. I'd say the older bike actually handles better than the slacked out new bikes. I can't run shorter than 60mm stems on the new bikes, I bang my knees standing and climbing and it's weird turning on a decent. If anything, I find myself having to lean forward quite a bit to weight the front wheel on the new bikes, while riding neutral or slightly back on the old SC. I usually set it up my bikes for what's comfortable for me. The new bikes, I tried 3 different length stems (bike shop must have thought I was nuts) before I found something that felt good, super short was not the ticket.. I tried to jump on this short/long train 2 years ago, maybe my 5'7" body needs a Large sized frame?
  • 1 0
 I`m glad this option is finally available for everyone to try. Since rider taste vary a lot, its a good thing to have for people who know what combination of reach,stem length, hangle and cs length they`re comfortable with most after throwing a leg over variety of different bikes. I was looking to try this since the honda rn01 debut days where i first spotted the concept with in way of steering tube direct mount stems on a variety of showa, KYB and presumably tech-in inverted forks. But there was also a lack of short stems on the marked and dozen of mounting standards. I`ve found myself feeling better than ever in most downhill riding situations with 20mm longer reach cockpit, 30mm stem (coming from 45-50mm) , a touch slacker head angle , same bars , same riding position as on the old bike. Felt an instant confidence related comfort coupled with better stability and effortless cornering. But the bike lost a bit of its charming handling abilities in the tight twisty tracks and became hungry for more speed. Have a lot of fellas who also tried , but didnt feel good with short stems, most of them feeling their bikes too nervous in the face of A jump and other situations. And sure why not, if a concept works for you, for how and where you ride most, or what you want most just do it if you feel its your way of getting a better rider.
  • 1 0
 I remember at 12yrs old at 5'4" having to ride a large bmx frame since it was a pass down. I won multiple qualifiers and a few nationals in the 80s until I actually fit it. Then I bought a larger frame whenever I needed a new bike. OH crap I have been doing this for years! I'm 5'9" with short arms and ride a 18.5" Foes with a 45mm stem. NOW I'm in vogue? MOtre crap to feed the young and impressionable.

HEY! How about 10 mm longer pedal axle spindles to "increase stance stablity and manueverability when whipping".. BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!
  • 1 0
 Just went through this with my son. He is 11 and just hit 5'2", outgrowing his Santa Cruz Nickel XS with a 70mm stem. I ran all the reach calculations and found that a Turner 5 spot in medium (23.0" toptube) with a 35mm stem fits perfectly (1" longer than his Santa Cruz). The biggest issue was bar height and with a flat topcap on the headset it was perfect. Handles great and will fit him well for another 6" of growth.
  • 1 0
 I wish you were my Dad.
  • 2 0
 There's always adoption.
  • 1 0
 But then you would be stuck living with my ex wife half the time and there is no amount of money or bikes that is worth that.
  • 1 0
 I'm 6'4" and come from a BMX background and have never liked a long stem. I'm digging all the BMX love sprinkled throughout the comments. It also grinds my gears that top tubes and seat tube gussets on larger frame choices are so damn tall. I realize this is to accommodate longer legs and riding posture but I could just raise my seat. I also realize seat tube gussets are there to counteract the leverage forces of the seatpost while pedaling sitting down and it has limits. I'm used to slammed seats, pedaling while standing, and am the type of rider that throws my bikes around regardless of discipline, thus I'd rather have the crotch room instead of a constricted frame height. Plus we have dropper post now. Bring on extra reach frames without extended seat tubes!
  • 1 0
 have a 2014 kona process medium. im 5'10. came with a 40mm stem, long top tube. i couldnt fit a medium when i tried a santa cruz 5010 (shorter top tube) would have to be a large. there is a big difference in riding position. came off of a medium 29er hardtail. took a few rides to get used it but now i couldnt go back to shorter top tubes or longer stems. just my unnecessary knowledge.
  • 1 0
 Even on my XC bike, my I'll be sizing up from a small Mach 429c with a 90 mm stem to a medium Mach 429sl with a 70 mm stem... slightly longer reach, still a light front end, and no stupid setback dropper post to make it fit correctly.
  • 1 0
 Had a Canyon Torque DHX last year, size S (company-recommended, me 5'7", short legs long torso). 394mm reach. Never felt comfortable in turns, too much weight in the back. Then upgraded to a Turner DHR with a reach of 424mm. Great fit, great central position on the bike now. Only that the size label of the frame now reads 'XL'. Oopsie, but do I give a shit?

Stem length stayed at 50mm as with the previous frame btw, no point in getting more weight on the front wheel and then taking it back with a shorter stem. I dont really get the supershort Mondraker stems. But that may be me being short-ish and having to fight to put weight on the front anywhere I can.
  • 1 0
 My new long bike felt weird for the first few rides, but now I could never go back. I even bought an extra long BMX frame. I don't find climbing that difficult, but it almost never rains here so maybe that's a mud thing.
  • 3 0
 Hey ladies, I may have a stubby stem but the length of my front center offers great ride qualities.
  • 1 1
 I just changed from a large nomad mk2 to an XL Mega Tr 27.5 with 26 inch wheels to get the long back end. I fitted a -2 headset and 170mm fork to the bike.. frank-n-mega-bike. It sure is fun. Rides like a mini scalp which is my dh bike. I am not looking for an enduro plow but something that takes some riding and has the stability at speed of a longer bike. It seems to deliver that in spades. I am 185cm tall. Before that I rode mediums. the change from medium to large made sense. Now large to XL. But with a 40mm stem compared to my old 50m on the large.
  • 1 0
 my current bikes are both larges and a size up from what i would have ridden years back , that being said my bike on order will be a medium yet has the same WB as my large trail bike
  • 1 1
 Following issues need answers:

Will a 1250+ wheelbase bike fit in the following:

A bike rack on a ski lift
A bike rack on an uplift
A bike bag

I mean my idea of hell would be to buy one of these bikes and figure out their too big to be transported up a mountain or even too big to transport full stop.
  • 1 0
 I rode a prototype XL DH bike with 27.5" wheels that was in that range. On my NSR4 rack it has very limited ground clearance on rough roads (it hung much lower than my XL Enduro 29). It also dragged on the ground if it hung vertically from the chairlift hooks in the bike park.
  • 1 0
 They're getting like land speed record rigs.
  • 4 0
 Smaller frame and stem=a more nimble pony
  • 4 0
 I just ride my bike.......
  • 1 0
 I ride a large 2013 Mondraker dune xr forward geo with a 35mm stem, at 6ft 6 its the 1st bike i've ever had that fits me properly. No idea why its taken this long for bike company's to catch on
  • 1 0
 My last bike change I went from a L to M which is a better size for me and I enjoy it heaps more. However, now when I crash it always seems to be OTB when that never used to happen on a large frame.
  • 1 0
 I've ridden a size up on my dh bike fro a couple of years now. it rides better, corners better, feels more stable and allows you to move your weight about within the bikes axles easier. everything a dh bike is meant to do.
  • 1 0
 At 5'6 with a 32' inseam I need an option along the lines of " This forward geometry business isn't for me as it narrows my choices " the reach goes up along with the seatpost and the low stack doesn't help either.
  • 1 0
 Being 6'6" (198cm) I don't see myself with any option other than an XL with a 50mm stem. It's what I've been riding for years and what I'll continue to ride.
  • 3 0
 It's hard enough to find an XL frame anyways
  • 2 0
 Is innovation in the mountain bike industry really so stagnant that this is a thing?
  • 1 0
 I've been doing this for years now. I fit a medium, but always buy a large a put a shorter stem. I can care less how well i climb, It's the descends that matter the most.
  • 4 0
 already an XL guy.
  • 2 1
 I put a longer stem on my bike. Bought it frame only, my old 50mm was not positioned correctly for me, so I switched to a 65mm.
  • 2 1
 larger frame, using a shortest stem I can find turned around so the offset from the center of the fork is on the riders side. offset works on a dirt bike.
  • 1 0
 Doesn't that make the bike unstable?
  • 2 0
 I tried that just for fun one time, did not work at all, maybe because the stem was 50 mm, probably with a really short stem and a high rise handlebar it would put your grips where they'll work but I doubt it.
  • 1 0
 @punksoverreign: thanks for the insight
  • 1 0
 Should have " I will choose/already bought a bigger size, and small stem it" and "I will choose/already bought bike based around smaller stem"
  • 1 0
 Here in Brazil all bike shops sell wrong frame sizes. Even the most expensive ones. I use large frame and im 1,86. Hate cramped cockpit
  • 2 0
 Option 2 and option 4 are the same in my case...

I bought my usual Size L, but it's a Kona so it has the "new" geometry.
  • 2 0
 Old news. Ive done it for years. My nomad that im selling is large and has a short stem. The way it should be
  • 3 0
 I've been doing this for a while. Thought it was common knowledge.
  • 1 0
 hmm. I just built my new bike with a longer stem than I have been using. I have had stubby stems for at least the last 8 years.
  • 1 0
 XL Kona Taro with 50mm stem and 780mm handlebar. I hope trends don't change, as this is the first time in over 20 years riding where my bike has fit me properly HAHA.
  • 1 0
 How can I make my 30mm stem shorter?
Nimble bikes are fun, I do not feel a need to ride overstretched by long frame and super wide bars. My back achesWink
  • 1 0
 im 1,69 and i have a 2012 Giant Reign size S, its a small bike but its the funnest bike ive ever had, almost a bmx with 150mm travel !!
  • 1 0
 It worked for me, I went from a small to a medium DH bike and felt much quicker on it (backed up by starva) Don't think I'll be upping to a large though
  • 1 0
 ThAts' s old school BMX shit. No new standard. Been doing it, works great. Ha I even sported a BMX neck on my to big no name orange rigid mtn bike with Phil Wood hubs.
  • 1 0
 Another "been doing this for years" right here. I have always been between sizes, and found the larger size with shorter stem to be a better ride.
  • 2 0
 I tried to put a 10" single on my automatic turntable and almost broke the needle!
  • 2 0
 Longer reach bikes is a godsend for tall folks like me! Love it, great to have a big that actually fits me.
  • 1 0
 There is an answer missing in this poll: "Dear bike industry, go huck yourself with your "new" sizes and standards. You're welcome"
  • 5 2
 iSpy an all black DOSS.
  • 3 0
 Good eye, but more importantly: it's cable routing appears to match it's paint job, i.e., stealth. there doesn't appear to be a cable approaching the seat post head. That's new...
  • 1 0
 Looks like on the right side of the post there is a cable - also if you look down below, the housing looks to be coming down the down tube and curves up at the seat tube. Not sure this one is internal... I have heard rumors of down the road though.
  • 1 0
 I saw that, but figured that it was entering the seat tube, not riding alongside it. The standard fox cable router thingamajig isn't in use here: It would cover up the clearly visible logo with a zip tie. However, that could be a Hope dropper post clamp, too hard to tell from the photos. It would be fairly odd to run the cable down the downtube if you're going up to a non-stealth dropper. Would probably make the cable do more annoying things when the dropper is down, as it has "decide" where to bend, instead of just following an existing bend.
  • 1 0
 Can anyone tell me which is the best reach for any height??is there any calculation??
  • 1 0
 No and no.
  • 1 0
 there are factors to consider reach is one of them , but then also ratio between chainstay lengh and front center. its all about centre of gravity on your bike really.
  • 2 0
 i still ride 26" am i now classed as retro ?
  • 2 0
 26 should be never retro. or maybe let it be retro. so many posh 26er frames for low price on pinkbike. fffuuuu 650b hype.
  • 1 0
 How can you even roll over sticks or stones, without getting stuck???
  • 2 0
 bunnyhops?
  • 3 1
 No, i bought a Capra lol
  • 1 0
 Mercury Ferrarrerris Rule !
  • 1 0
 I'm already running a large Orbea Occam 29r and their TT is pretty much an XL so it's all good.
  • 2 1
 60mm stem just about right, don't like shorter as not enough weight over front wheel...
  • 1 0
 release 3 psi from fork for lower front
  • 1 3
 I have been getting really irritated with parole recently saying that a short stem doesn't work for them. I sort stem and wide bars transforms any mountain bike. If the short stem doesn't work for you then tour frame is too small. Fair play to mojo and Nikolai for coming up with this.
  • 1 0
 People not parole
  • 1 0
 Some people like to be more over the front axle (like myself ) for better cornering and climbing . I also have short body and arms so I have to got with a smaller frame . I also can't use wide bars as the riding I do is in very tight woody ares so some times people choose a frame that is "too small " for a reason . Maybe short stems and wide bars do not suite the terrain and riding style not that the bike size is wrong .
  • 3 1
 I feel sorry for people trying to sell small and medium bikes now.
  • 1 0
 By the time I buy a new bike all this will be taken care of. I will just need to figure out the brand and color.
  • 3 1
 5'6", I think no matter what , a small frame
  • 2 1
 I am the same height, used to ride a size medium Norco AM bike with a 50mm stem. I just recently bought a GT Sanction, got a small this time and put a 35mm stem on it. It felt weird at first but when I checked my Strava times I was actually going faster, uphill included. The "new" geo works for me.
  • 1 0
 I'm 5'6 as well, with (proportionately) long legs. I always buy small, throw on a short stem and get the saddle height I need through the seatpost. Although at 5'6 we tend to be on the cusp of Small/Medium, I've always enjoyed the tight geometry of smaller frames. I honestly have no idea how the "new" geometries will affect this plan, I'm on a small 2014 Sight now (with a 50mm stem) and loving it!
  • 2 0
 26" TT on size LG please with a 48" wheelbase....
  • 1 0
 now since large frames standover heights arent so high, you can basically ride anything if you are short
  • 1 0
 The 2 bikes I own are already long frame / short stem / wide bars ... they came like it as standard and I love it !
  • 1 0
 Weve done the research ...the bikes are being made...just prepare to buy them people! They're the new standard.
  • 1 0
 i reminder the days where you couldn't buy a stem shorter then 120mm, you ever do a 6' drop with 120mm stem, thats right.
  • 2 0
 New trend, no stem - duct tape straight to steerer
  • 2 0
 Where is the "I'm 6'6" and have to buy the biggest fame anyway" option? Smile
  • 2 0
 Short stem and downsize frame
  • 1 0
 I'm 6'1 with a 580mm reach and 50mm stem in the form of a comencal meta am xl. Are there many other bikes this long?
  • 1 0
 Just buying a larger size of the bike I had this year(mondraker foxy) design is around a 30mm stem.....
  • 2 0
 Utterly ridiculous
  • 1 0
 All in the Name of Fun Pedal On fellow Brotheren!
  • 1 0
 Long frame ok but not tall! I hate long headtubes.
  • 1 0
 Frames are never big enough!
  • 1 0
 what's bike model presented in this article?
  • 1 0
 Hmm... something funny to say
  • 2 1
 Being 5'6, I don't think I have many options.
  • 1 0
 Oh ya you do open them ! There are more component than ever ,just start trying them out .Go with small 16.5 frame 45-50 mm stem 720-760 bar 17in chainstay seat forward or 17.5 frame depending on 26- to 29 er ! Try it switch it only you can make it work ? EnJoy!!!
  • 1 0
 youre missing the point, a small process 153 has the same reach as a medium in many other brands but the tiny stem and short manouverable rear makes it work just fine and handle so well I'm 5'8 on a medium 153 and it's unbelievably good
  • 1 0
 I can remember the craze for cutting
  • 1 2
 ERROR: Message too long. IP logged for possible spamming. apparently pinkbike doesn't like me stating my opinions about Bull shXX frame designs.
  • 1 0
 Whats this about the bike given you a bad back?
  • 1 0
 My only question is: where can I buy this in Canada?
  • 1 0
 Up sizing your frame? hope your girlfriend does not do the same.
  • 1 0
 I'm 6ft 4 with super long arms. I don't really have a choice.
  • 1 0
 I ride an XL, how can I go bigger?
  • 1 0
 Xxl
  • 1 0
 and then 2 xl 3xl. lets just make bike with 520 mm reach and 50 mm negative stems for new way of handling bikes.
  • 1 0
 i am 6'6", it doesn't matter either way. they are all small.
  • 1 0
 "en vogue" for me since late 90s.
  • 1 0
 I already have a bike with longer frame and shorter stem. My stem is 40mm.
  • 2 2
 Oh no. Another 'new standard' coming our way?
  • 2 0
 Actually, that's not new at all. A lot of us are doing this since the very beginning.
  • 1 0
 Just ride the bike.
  • 3 4
 mondraker did it, but realized that the control in corners is not so good
  • 3 0
 kinnayred....really? Where did you get that from? I find the Mondarker corners well.

IMO longer reach dimensions and forward centers are the way to go. Most manufactures are lagging behind in this respect.
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