Pinkbike Poll: How Do You Set Up Your Cleats?
For clipped-in riders, cleat position is paramount. It's really important to get the side-side position and the angle of the cleat correct to reduce the chances of knee and ankle problems, and make sure you can always clip out. But there's a lot of room to experiment with the fore-aft position of the cleat too, and this has a marked effect on the handling and fit of the bike.
Traditionally, most riders were advised to place the cleat directly under the ball of the foot, or under the third metatarsal bone. But if you look at how downhill, enduro and trail riders, many of them set their cleats towards the back of the slot, if not all the way back. (See video below.)
Personally, I always set mine as far back as they'll go, and I won't ride certain shoes that don't allow me to put the cleats far enough back. I find that cleats too far forward make me to feel less connected to the bike and less in control on technical descents. Setting then further back makes it easier to drop my heals and push into the bike through the pedals. But in the early days of riding clipped-in, I set my cleats much further forward towards the ball of my foot. I suspect that longer front-centers in modern bikes make it possible to set the shoe further forward relative to the pedal axle without the bike feeling too cramped, while steeper seat tube angles make this possible without your feet feeling too far in front of your hips.
According to conventional wisdom, having the pedal axle under the ball of the foot gives the most powerful and efficient pedaling position. But this study suggests fore-aft foot position doesn't affect pedaling efficiency, and personally, I don't notice much difference in perceived pedaling effort either way.
So I want to know, how do you set up your cleats for different riding disciplines? And how has this changed over the years?
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just never gets old.
That being said, I'm a little surprised shoe manufacturers haven't accounted for this, moving Cleat boxes forward on xc models and furrher back on enduro / dh shoes.
I ride my roadbike with mtb spds and my cleats are a little bit more forward from the center. When I was still riding xc, I kept my cleats around center and now for my trail/am/park riding i keep them 1/4 from the full back.
this, although im not bothering trying to get on with clipless anymore...
both my 510 and shimanos i slammed the cleats back.. leaving a massive channel up front, an area which cant pick up on any pedal pins... I want clipless with a good load of pins up front (DMR v twins)
www.mbr.co.uk/news/product_news/tech-fabien-barels-clipless-pedal-tips-313668
Pedal position is highly preferential....but if you're going based on power and efficiency of pedal stroke...the cleat moved towards the toes so that you get more calf engagement is the "correct" cleat position. Hence the reason why more roadies and XC racers have the cleat forward; you get the most leverage and muscle recruitment and a far more efficient pedal stroke. Having it farther back requires less use of the calf and also somewhat protects the Achilles. It also gives a sense of stability since it doesn't feel like your foot will slip off the pedals like it would on a platform at the bottom of a big landing....
I guess it's also what you are used to.
Maybe that position would work better with ultra-stiff soles, but most MTB shoes don't have those.
@Ttimer I tried it with shimano MT7 initially but the sole fell apart from too much hike a bike so got some Sidi SD15, those turned out to have a sole like a wet noodle so tried them with XT trail pedals hoping they gave more support but all the cage did was catch on the sole. Those are now commuting shoes and I'm back using really old Sidi Eagle with Carbon sole. Much prefer the stiffer shoes.
Flats are great for this because you can shift positions on the fly from pedaling to descending.
But yeah, I still wish there was more rearward adjustability for cleats.
I started riding in the mid 2000s and was told i NEEDED clips so got them. 4 years ago i decided to give flats a try intending to swap back and forth. Once the flats went on though I never once put clipless pedals back on because why would I?
I find flats are
A) Safer: haven't toppled over clipped in on a tech climb since going to flats
B) Convenient: you can still ride in your sneakers if you show up at the trail head and forgot your riding shoes
C) Funnerer: foot out flat out every turn baby!
Only reason I can see for clips is
D) putting down max power or
E) going as fast as you possibly can in a rock garden without blowing a foot off your pedals.
You need those things for racing and since I'm not not racing, neither hold great sway over me.
Points A+B+C > D+E for me and probably most people who don't race.
For the last 3-4 years I've done 6 months on/off flats/clips at a time.
For mountain bikers the biggest advantage is Clips keep your feet on without technique, they let you keep pedalling up steep tech sections and lifting up obstacles particularly rocky climbs. They also help knowing the bike will just come with you on a high drop off. They (for me ) are biggest advantages.
Flats are free-er, more comfy, let you try sketchy stuff more on a ride and let you move your body weight and feet easier .
As far as efficiency (and Ive commuted on both regularly) I dont notice a big difference other than your feet get less tired on clips and the soles can be a lot stiffer on clip shoes without losing grip.
Cranking up a climb makes no difference.
It actually feels nice sometimes to have a nice wide supportive platform and to be able to move your feet about.
People say zero float with flats but you have infinite placement and re-placement.
Search out a 2017 Dirt article by Steve Jones about the demise of flat pedals in DH World Cups - essentially is is it mainly clipless because everyone else does it, so will I lose out if I dont run them?
Essay over - I cant decide between them and it does my head in. This experience may help some people try things.
The other major issue was with my cleats so far forwards, I was overusing my calves and quads, and not properly activating my glutes and hamstrings (2 of the biggest muscle groups in the legs) when pedalling. Combined with a desk job, this was causing a TON of muscle imbalance problems, as I couldn't activate my hip muscles properly. This meant those muscles got tight and seized up. Riding flats or with my cleats further back has helped me address these issues and taught me how to better recruit my hip muscles both in my pedal stroke and when descending (hip hinge body position, when pumping, etc). I think you do lose a bit of 'snap' when sprinting with the cleats further back, but I think the trade off is worth it.
Long story short, cleats slammed back is good, riding flats sometimes is also good.
A little bit dissapointed that the poll only cover fore-aft adjustment. No favorite clip in interface manufacturer? No side-to-side, cleat angle, float, clip tension, cleat shims adjustment questions? Come on PB, mountainbikers are nerds.
I used to have them up to the front and they have gone back. I tried far back but I kept catching my toes on rocks and roots, I don't even have big feet?? I went back towards the middle, a little further back than middle but with bottom brackets getting lower I just had to many weird crashes if my toes went down and caught something. Stops you dead and bad shoulders make it worse! I have friends with big feet and they never have that problem. I think I just get lazy and or try to lift and pull my heel up instead of my entire foot.
To fix the pain I went to countless bike fits and physical therapist without any improvements, but in the end a guy who rode flats said “bro slide your cleats back” it worked perfectly- pain gone.
I also find the way that feels the best when I want to put down as much power as possible, and that's a narrow fore/aft band and it ends up at the back of the ball.
My Sidis don't really allow side to side with ATAC cleats, so that's not an issue.
I've never had an issue getting my heels down. ATACs encourage you to get your heels down since the retaining spring is on the front bar. If your heels aren't down, you'll pop out.
Cleats set so that shoe/ankle can't hit cranks, and as far back as they can go until recently. Shoes now have longer holes set further back, so I find if I put the cleats there they're in the wrong place.
I've seen it in a few suspension articles and referenced in high end suspension ordering forms. According to that riding flats puts your weight farther back on the bike, as you have to do heels down during the rough bits, so this can make it harder to weight the front correctly at times (and changes the spring rates that work best for the shock, apparently).
This has me thinking a bit, as I do sometimes feel like I have a hard time weighting the front correctly.
Well, that, and a broken toe while wearing my five tens :/.
Otherwise I run cleat position near back of shoe. I can't remember why now ... maybe it was easier on knees or feet?
I had no idea people were moving cleats back...? Worth a try! I've been on the ball of the foot since I first tried cleats and thought that was the only answer for cleat placement...
I tried flats when I got a dirt jumper; ripped the shit out of my shins and calves, looked like a mountain lion had at me. (probably should have tried flat sole shoes to go with them. But Fme those threaded pins were sharp!) Went back to clips. (rocked the power grips before that)
Had some less "intense' flat pedals on a hardtail for the kids that I now keep in the truck. Ended up having to use them this spring and was surprised at how good they felt. BUT just don't feel as secure.. and you don't get the spin/upforce you do with cleats.
seems like a 6 of one and half a dozen of the other thing though...?
riding flats is easier to find out what you like and then transfer position to spd and you don't have a dilemma. using both of them depending on the weather. rain and running mud, loads of pedalling and no push-up - spd. fun in the park, peanut butter mud and pushups days - flats
It is a win-win; for pedal days perfect position in clips determined by science gained on push up days on flats
When I tried the cleat further back it made a surprising difference. I found it made it easier to pedal of out the saddle. The difference is surprising given the small change.
I run the center of my cleats maybe 1/2 inch behind the ball pivot and roughly in line with my second toe.
Other then more perceived stability has anyone come across even some “bro science” proving a benefit?
No one here has talked about seat height relative to the pedals and foot position. I started riding in 1994 with toe clips, which were pretty insane. The foot position with toe clips was spindle at the ball of your foot and toes mashed to the end of the cage. Went to SPD when they came out. I've crashed being unable to get out but that's just the learning curve. REPLACE YOUR CLEATS if you're having engagement problems. I ride XT pedals a 1/2 turn from fully loose and have no problems releasing or staying retained. Thanks to Jeff Kendall Weed for that tip. He did switch to flats recently, for what it's worth.
But back to seat height...I rode across the US in 2008 with my mountain shoes and Shimano 747s. I ride the spindle at the ball of my foot on all bikes. My knees hurt for the first 3 weeks because my seat was not high enough. Through gradual raises of the saddle, I ended up about an inch higher than what I thought I needed. The pain subsided and the riding improved. In the second half of the trip we did 2200 miles in 22 days with zero issues. Today, with dropper posts, I can finally recreate that road bike seat height on the trail. I never have knee pain with this high seat position. My legs are tired from a heavy week of riding and an Enduro race and I can feel soreness in all the major muscle groups - calves, quads, hams, glutes. So if you have knee problems and run cleats forward, try raising your seat height. Moving cleats farther back effectively shortens your leg, which helps get a better biomechanical leg straightness for a lower seat height.
Flat pedal removes all anal od foot position, it is always comfortable