Pinkbike Poll: How Do You Want Your Bike Biased?

Dec 26, 2014
by Mike Levy  
It wasn't that long ago that mid-travel bikes were pretty mediocre at most things, at least in hindsight and given how capable they are today. Now you can put together a six inch travel bike that easily weighs well under thirty pounds, including a dropper seat post and reliable wheels and tires, and ride it just about everywhere without it feeling like shit. In fact, some of these bikes are so competent that they could replace a lot of riders' downhill bikes without holding them back at all, while there's a handful of other machines that are such impressive all-rounders that I'd likely choose one of them over a lighter, more efficient trail bike rig for all-day epics.

The Xprezo Adhoc and GT's Sanction are absolute monsters when it comes to descending, but the flip side is that they can be a handful when it comes time to earn those hucks. Then you have similar travel machines like Ibis' new Mojo HD3 or Cannondale's Jekyll that can climb above and beyond what's expected of them, although they do give up a bit of ground compared to the previous two examples when things get super hectic on the way back down. Sure, all of those bikes have similar amounts of travel, but the descending and climbing bias between the first and last two examples is about as different you can get. Even when a bike is the Jim Thorpe of its class, it's still going to have a bias to either descending or ascending depending on its intentions. The questions is, then, how do you want your bias?

Adhoc

Two bikes of similar travel but very different personalities. Would you prefer the all-out descending prowess of the pink Adhoc, or the more all-around abilities of the Jekyll?


Let's assume that a six inch bike that's geared 100% towards descending will have very slack geo, a small gear range with a full chain guide, slammed seat, downhill bike-worthy wheels and tires, and a weight-is-no-concern approach to component selection. And let's also suppose that a six inch bike with more all-around intentions sits at 50% and has steeper geometry, lightweight wheels and tires that roll fast, a wider gear range, maybe suspension that you can lock out or adjust on the fly, and a host of mega-light parts. What's below the 50% mark? Things like 100mm stems and standard seat posts, so let's not go there. Where would you like to see your bike fall on the scale?


How Do You Want Your Bias?



Author Info:
mikelevy avatar

Member since Oct 18, 2005
2,032 articles

220 Comments
  • 318 3
 The poll is a Christmas tree. Coincidence... I think not.
  • 143 5
 Illumisanta?
  • 35 0
 Merry Festivus
  • 5 4
 Happy Christmahanukwanzadon!
  • 13 6
 I like a 130mm hardtail
  • 10 1
 Tho it is a coincidence that I have a rocky mountain slayer frame for sale Wink Unfortunately it's may not be exactly what you are asking for as it's made for 61%down 39%up
  • 1 1
 illuminati
  • 2 0
 Nahh 120mm here @nickTHEBEARcardone
  • 1 0
 I can hang
  • 145 7
 what does % mean. I RIDE ENDURO
  • 75 1
 In your case then the bias is 100% up and 100% down
  • 23 2
 No, 80% up - 100% down.
  • 41 3
 The question of bias leaves out some of my favorite parts of riding. Namely, how it rides on flat/not steep stuff. I have had a 80% descender 6" bike. It was actually a little boring unless pointed down a steep hill. My current rig is 60/40, with a 67.5 head angle and a higher bb, helping it feel playful on the flatter sections of trail, and places where you have to pedal to hit top speed, but costing it a little on the steeper descents.

I don't mind having the dh trails be a little sketchy. It makes them a bigger challenge, and I'd rather have more fun on the stuff that doesn't eat all my altitude in one bite.
  • 18 0
 You're right, we don't all live in the mountains where you need a super competent decending bike, something that is fun on less steep and technical trails is just as important
  • 6 0
 Good point. I used 160mm bikes where I used to live, but in the riding around my current home, it's much more fun and active on a shorter travel rocket. Jumps are easier to pop off of, but yeah, the downhills may cause a little more arm pump. I'm faster on 80% of the tighter and rolling local trails and that makes the arm pump worth it.
  • 8 2
 Even in the mountains, most of the single track locally is smooth enough that 160 is overkill. Watch videos of the rush trail of corner canyon. It's smooth as glass. There are more gnarly trails to be had, and I love hitting them, but at the end of the day the benefits of shorter travel outweigh those rare occasions when I have to pull the brakes more often to manage my line more carefully.
  • 4 4
 the comparison is for true am bike that rips both XC and DH. 160 is the sweet spot.
  • 6 2
 I guess i disagree, since 160 is boring on xc due to the stabilizing geo and ability to iron out bumps.
  • 7 1
 sweet spot depends on where you live and what trails you ride. I'd say 130-140 is the sweet spot where i live, and im sure someone will disagree
  • 3 1
 totally agree, Too much travel can be a bad thing.
  • 4 0
 This is why I love Cane Creek's shocks. I have a 6" bike, but can dial it in to feel much more spritely with my CCDB Air. I get that people may not want to mess with their shock every time out, but until I can afford another bike, this does quite nicely. I can also swap out my 6" rockers for that of 5", though I've yet to do that.
  • 13 0
 my "six-inch trailbike" is a 4.5-inch slopestyle bike built up like a trail bike. climbs pretty well, descends great, super fun everywhere
  • 3 0
 i feel like a bike like the HD3 would be a great bike for 95% of most trail riders, its light, it is a very capable climber and is still fun and explosive on the downs. there are many other bikes that are the same way, i'm not saying the HD3 is the only one, i'm just saying, bikes like the HD3 are as much bike as most of us need.

I have a Slash, and i can't push that bike to its limits on the downs.

But, that is why i got the bike, although i know it'd be hard for me to find the limits of a bike like the HD3 i would still prefer a little buffer just to be sure, yeah, it means its a little harder to climb, and that sucks, but i spent a lot of time on an XC/Trail bike and consider my self a relatively good climber, so i can deal with it.
  • 3 0
 my lowest travel bike is 7 inches, i dont really go for xc rides but it gets me around and even climbs halfway decent.
  • 2 0
 I have a kona process 134 and wouldn't change it for the higher travel model - especially since I have a DH bike as well for that kind of riding
  • 4 2
 80% of my riding is on a 80mm travel singlespeed. It's designed to be good on gently downward trails, but that are super tight and nadgery. It certainly not an XC singlespeed. It has a slack head angle and low BB.

How does this fit into this new marketing classification?
  • 1 0
 @taletotell exactly sums up my current ride. 60/40 for me, 120mm 29er. I used to ride dh all the time, now my local trails are rolling and not steep, flat out speed is what I'm after and the big wheels make everything flat out, and my ups are a bit easier on the 29
  • 3 6
 I have the 5th fastest time on upper rush with my 4" bike locked out. I had a reign xo, but it was slower by a minuite on the complete rush trail and it was complete overkill. My anthem is much more fun. I still chuckle when I see kids on full dh rigs and full face masks shuttling rush. Theyre usually the dopes that ride it when muddy and make it all rutty for the rest of the season.

Draper dh was a different story, as I was 30 sec faster on the reign but i have just as much fun with the anthem, plus I dont want to kill myself riding the road back to potato hill.

Unfortunately I have such a small riding window that I have a hard time meeting up with enough people to get efficent shuttle runs going. I usually just end up riding up and down 90% of the time. The best bike for that is an xc rig.

Ended up selling my reign and only miss it on my yearly moab trip and maybe once or twice if I go ride bobsled. Ill just rent a kona process next year in moab.
  • 2 1
 Same here! 115 rear, 160 front Hollowpoint MTX baby!
  • 49 10
 100% down, but i pedal my bike up, just don't care about how good it is on the ups... also a bike can pedal well on the uphills even if it's a 100% dedicated to DH
  • 8 6
 You got it right... The same with me
  • 8 4
 Exactly! I don't care about ascends, they have to happen anyways if I ever want to go down, so I rather sweat blood pedaling up my DJ bike than waste time with pushing it.
  • 24 2
 Exactly they need to add the option " It's all about the decent, my legs can get stronger, but a nervous bike will never get funner".
  • 11 0
 Some bikes just will not go up very steep trails. There are quite a few trails around here that I cant get up on my old On-one 456 Summer season but I can on my 456 Evo 2. Its nothing to do with leg strength, the front just wanders too much and I cant keep it down. I'd imagine the same a applies for most people.
  • 8 0
 Brigand does not understand the concept of 100% dedication
  • 19 5
 bikes dont feel nervous on downhills, riders do
  • 7 0
 I agree at heart, but there always seems more fun to be had the more gas is left in your tank at the end of a climb. The effort lost on climbing to get to all-too-short dh sections can = slowed response time and less strength for maneuvering. To compensate means slowing down or risking injury.
  • 6 3
 brigand - if you are 100% into downs, shouldn't you be riding a DH bike? Get CCDB Air with Climb Switch to a DH bike aaaand... off you go!
  • 2 0
 I'm also all about the downhill part of the ride which is why I only have a DH bike. However, in the offseason when there are no lifts I get out the telescopic seatpost and the big cassette and pedal uphill. My ideal bike is a light DH bike (around 15kg would be nice) with CCDB Air with climb switch. It is my 2015 project to lighten my Status.
  • 1 0
 my bike is narrow range cassette away from 100% DH orientated... i don't ride the DH bike because this one is more fun on most of the trails and i can pedal it anywhere... no climb switch for me, i run my Monarch Plus in open all the time, bike has good antisquat... what's with the polls recently, trying to put us in the certain category all the time, i don't fit in any, i'm a MTBer Wink
  • 1 0
 Yes MTBers... rare kind. Or maybe everyone on a mountain bike is one, they just pretend to be in a category. Maybe you should design your own bike then, or get one from companies providing custom geometry Big Grin
  • 1 0
 i did design and make a bike few years ago, would have done it again but couldn't find enough time this time Big Grin
  • 35 4
 How do you pedal a bike up a hill?
  • 33 2
 I think it's where you use a chairlift with a footholder instead of a car Smile
  • 25 0
 I'd say 50/50. You're usually going to spend a LOT more time climbing than descending, so you might as well have a bike that climbs nicely and make the whole thing enjoyable. Also, descending is mad fun but I find that getting to the top of a super hard climb without putting a foot down is extremely rewarding. I suck at the climbing thing but I do good on the way down so I try to get a bike that will compliment my weaknesses a little, without sacrificing too much fun for the downhill part.
  • 32 9
 A 120 bike with 160 fork can be ridden aggressively enough that it will utilize big knobby tyres and double casings. Thanks to things like climb switch, 160 bike can uphill almost as well as a 120 bike, so if you have Enduro29 and are in for an all day epic instead of throwing laps on DH tracks, you just put lightweight tyres on with so e sealant. So componentry between 120 and 160 bikes is nearly identical. So is geo recently. Who would chose a Rev or 34 over Pike or 36 for mere 150g, getting a pogo stick damper in return? I'd say the "bias" limits to tyre choice, whether fork has adjustable travel or not and whether shock can take big hits and have a climb switch. All that, save tyres is achievable in one bike with minimal weight penalty.
  • 41 6
 I saw "Enduro" in this comment, so you're probably wrong.
  • 2 11
flag zweiradmechaniker (Dec 26, 2014 at 4:01) (Below Threshold)
 *right
  • 6 1
 *or wrong
  • 10 6
 or who gives a damn...
  • 1 0
 Or do what I did and not change your tires at all.
Front wheel: Maxxis DHF EXO tubeless
Rear wheel: Maxxis High Roller tubeless
  • 5 1
 DHF EXO is good indeed, probably the most all-round tyre of all time. It gives up ONLY on narrower rims on trails with high speeds and big berms, where you will lack sidewall stability, but only if you can ride real fast. Then sure it's not the best tyre for BC race or Trans Alp but, for own needs, it's hard to blame. For 90% of cases it works great! It's downhill merits are well known, but it is highly underrated on the rear. It climbs on everything thanks to big well spaced knobs. I've done some loooong XC rides on DHFs front and rear. Now I switched to Butchers though - very similar pattern but they do roll better and are slightly lighter, I could not utilize the grip of Minions on my trails anyways. Highroller on the rear is not gripping on uphills in wet for me, slides on rocks and roots in bloop due to ramped knobs. I am dying to try Magic Mary/Rock Razor combo.
  • 6 0
 No "Enduro" this time? You must be right!
  • 5 0
 Not another battle of 'I know which tyre is the best for the rest of the world' psychopaths...
  • 2 0
 I use a 2009 Intense socom with a 160 fox talas and an x fusion H3LT with a 4 stage pro pedal. I live in quebec, so not the biggest mountains to climb but 2200 vertical of climbing (on a 45lb bike) and one hell of a run down....on a good day I can do this twice and im 42........so I have too ask what is the question again!!!!
  • 28 3
 Just get out and ride.
  • 4 1
 Well you're on here aren't you...
  • 13 0
 I ride my 6.6" travel bike on everything. So, I'm willing to sacrifice most trail-ride friendly aspects to have a bike that's DH/park friendly. Coil suspension, big brakes and 65 degree HTA.... And besides, even on trail-rides I wanna ride the DH sections like I'm riding DH bike. It's all about the fun factor, not about how many miles I can do in a day.
  • 18 4
 100 percent climb. I usually walk on the way down. Too scary.
  • 26 0
 You should trying going to a bike park. They have lifts to get back down. It's sweet.
  • 7 0
 When I leave the house with the intention of going down specific dh trails that have an easy way up or park I would say 80-20(old 180mm travel bike).
But when scoping out new dh spots or new trails or both then its 50-50(110 travel new school trail/am bike).

The real problem with some of these 160mm plus bikes is not so much the climbing but rather keeping their momentum on flat sections of trail between descents.
  • 3 0
 That's so true. My 160mm nukepriof mega absolutely destroys decents and you can plough up the hills but you've got to work hard to keep it up to speed on mellow trail sections
  • 3 1
 This is why I am going for 29er...too much flatland in my new town
  • 2 0
 Agreed. Riding isnt up or down, it's along to, most riders are either to busy being lazy in the saddle or have a bike that ruins tbese bits by imagining theyre that gnar they need what is essentially a dh bike all the time.

Then there are those mellower trails where pumping gets you a rediculous amount of free speed and end up being real fun. Too much travel and youre robbed of fun.

Shorter travel all the way, more fun more of the time.

You also do not get anythingfor free. Make a 6" bike good at climbing it is going to get "worse" at going down.
  • 1 0
 True, nothing reminds me more of being a kid on a BMX than my short travel bike.
  • 7 1
 I also think it's debatable what bias you think a frame has. There is subjectivity involved. I would argue that some folks would disagree with you that the Adhoc isnt the pig you make it out to be on the ups. I think we are pretty adaptable in terms of riding style. Once you get dialed on a bike, and you have the fitness, you can be pretty good/efficient going up AND down.
  • 5 0
 I think that 99% of the riders just don't feel much difference on the DOWNHILL as they use their bike once a week (I am one of these)
I think that 99% of the riders feel too much difference on the UPHILL as they are not fit enough (I am also one of these)

In fact, proes test bikes :-P
  • 5 1
 I'd say I fall somewhere between 80/20 and 60/40. I just built up a new 160mm bike because the majority of the riding spots around me require hiking/riding to the top, and they don't really necessitate a full blown DH bike. I am finding that I enjoy being able to pedal up to the top, but I'm not gonna skip out on a shuttle day or a day at the park with lift access.
  • 4 3
 70/30 the new bias for enduro, has the best of both worlds, better uphill than 80/20 but still a descet downhill, better than 60/40
  • 7 0
 who buys such a bike to go 100% downhill? believe it or not there are bike specially designed for this Wink
  • 1 3
 I think you missed the point.
  • 5 1
 Rocky Mountain already hit the spot perfectly with the newest version of their Slayer. Sure, some will say that it looks just like other suspension designs, but every manufacturer places their pivots and linkages in differing locations which makes a huge difference. I live in the hills where there are literally NO FLAT SPOTS so I get to start by climbing with no real warm-up and this bike is perfect. Semi lightweight at 32 pounds including a dropper post and 2.4/2.6 tire choice. Once pointed down hill, it soaks up everything almost as well as my Canfield. Plus, it still has 26" wheels so you don't have to be a marketing victim.
  • 3 0
 If only they didn't discontinue the Slayer for 2015, just when I was about to get around to buying one Frown . No complaints about my '15 Altitude though...
  • 2 0
 I'm sure that there are plenty of Slayer 70's out there sitting in people's garages. Just keep an eye out in the sales spots (Bay, Craigs, etc.) and they'll surface eventually. Such a great bike.
  • 5 1
 I find this percentage trend a bit strange. If you don't shuttle, all riding is 50% up and 50% down. You have to pedal up a hill to ride down. Even road riding is 50%.

It only pushing or shuttling that can change this percentage, and therefore it just becomes an indication of how often this happens.
  • 4 0
 True but isn't this about the focus when it comes to performance, a "70/30" bike being better at descending at the cost of climbing performance?
  • 3 0
 I'm a trail rider, so before you can come down, you have to go up. Therefore, 50/50 is what I want. However I can see that some riders will prefer a bike that's more down hill than clime. All pends on whether your enduro, am or downhill really. I feel anything over 140mm travel is overkill, but again that's due to being a trail rider as if I was a down hiller I would prob be looking for 180+
  • 7 0
 Can we have a Poll on the percentage of stuff that you want from CRC that is actually on sale?
Nothing in my wishlist is!
  • 7 2
 Where is the 70% - 30% option. IE: I get to the top under my own power with slack geo but don't care about the weight penalty of running DH tires and legit shocks?
  • 3 0
 I've gone through a few bikes over there years but the one bike I have not gotten ride of is my VpFree. 215mm of rear travel and 180mm up front , it climbs very good and you can hammer it in the down hill sections . I've used this bike for shuttle, bike parks , all day epic rides, and I guess what people would call enduro . It's my go to bike if I am riding new trails that get different opinions in terms of technical riding . This is on a 8 year old bike.
  • 3 0
 It's silly how the question is posed. Clearly the 5.5-6.7 inch platform deserves multiple styles and biases. The idea that what a bike is capable of and what type of rider it is suitable for can be determined by its travel is outdated. If a 6-7" bike can descend like a dh bike but be pedaled uphill and a 5.5-6.5" bike can sail uphill over long distance and not be lacking on the descents, why should both (and every iteration in between) not be made? It is not the all mountain bike that is being challenged but rather the dh and xc genre and they have hardly an answer applicable to the real world rider.
  • 4 1
 I think you may be making a mountain out of an anthill. Granted, I have not ridden the incredible number of bikes Mike has. So what would ordinarily be a subtle difference, he picks up and magnifies. Contrary to popular opinion, most e-bikers here never push a bike to its limit. Most aggressive geos are now within a degree or 1-2cm of each other across the board. And most suspension designs are leaning towards moar antisquat. I think component/gearing selection has a greater impact on bias, given similar travel frames. Want more DH slay-age? Put on a coil shock, or large vol air can, higher end travel fork and beefier/wider tires. Want moar ups? Put on a lockable air shock, lighter components and tires.
  • 2 0
 As far as two different bikes of the same travel feeling different, I did my own experiment while keeping the variables consistent like sag, travel, geometry, etc, since I work in a shop. The pedaling emphasized designs like VPP easily pedaled better in the open shock setting than another brand of the same travel with the propedal/trail/ctd/std on. From experience, they descend quite differently, too, and guess which one did it better.
  • 3 0
 Which one? Lol
  • 3 0
 Climbing with a slack 6” bike is not that bad. Just need to adjust, get used to it and add just a little bit more work, but makes the descents much more fun. It’s difficult to make adjustments on not so slack bikes descending. So for me little more slacker is always better, but all depends on trails you ride.
  • 2 0
 Hard question for me because 8/10 trail i ride are too steep for climbing them on pedals but i never have a car or lift to bring me up to the top so i would say 100!But on the other hand i care about the weight of the bike(more for the agility)!
So i think my Mondraker Dune is a pretty perfect deal!
  • 5 0
 It's always been 60/40 for me. Going up on your own power makes the downs all the more satisfying!
  • 2 0
 The Enduros here in the Southeast have some steep climbs on most all stages, even in Pisgsh. I have a Bronson and loose time on the uphills although I come from XC. As soon as I hit these climbs at speed I just blow up. It feels like I'm on a tank! Im scratching my head about next years season. On the very few DH stages only I'm up there. I know Enduro is a mix of both, but I sometimes feel I would be faster on a xc bike...idk. Still learning how to race Enduro which is why I love it so much.
  • 2 0
 The Bronson isn't even Santa Cruzs enduroest bike. What are people winning on? Mid travel 29ers?
  • 1 0
 I rode a Bronson this summer in my search for a new trailbike. I loved it, however i chose a 140mm Devinci Troy simply because the 20mm travel isn't noticeable enough descending while the 20mm less is a noticable difference when climbing. I realize the bikes don't share linkage designs and a 5010 would probably be lovely. I chose the locally made trail slayer and can't wait to shred the lift access dh trails on it thats how incredibly confidence inspiring it is.
  • 1 0
 Mostly yes, mid travel 29. Several people are having the same issues around here. Pisgah. But I'm now rethinking wheel size. I just felt faster on my HT 29. its not till the trail is nasty, rocky and steep till the Bronson comes alive.
  • 1 0
 That's good to know. Didn't do the Pisgah enduro this year, but I plan on it this next year. One of my friends was I think in the top 10 in Pro on a Bronson this year. Pisgah is my favorite place to ride, but I've yet to come across too many trails with steep climbs in them. A lot of fire road climbing though. I've definitely passed quite a few 29 HT's on my Bronson descending there. Haha.
  • 2 0
 I did the Pisgah Enduro this year and last. This year, I am pretty sure all of the winners were on 27.5" wheel bikes. Enduro racing is not about winning on the climbs though. Sure, there are some seriously steep climbs in Pisgah (in the Enduro and otherwise), but for the most part any of "climbs" on the timed sections could be conquered with some solid pedaling and gear selection or at worst dismounting then running up them. The fastest people I know in Pisgah are exceptional technical riders and I don't see many riding traditional XC rigs as they just aren't fast (nor fun) going down the gnar that prevail there.
  • 3 1
 It used to be 80-20 for me. But now that I've been riding these xc trails here in South Africa I'm starting to like that the power of my own legs can get me anywhere I want to, so I'd say right now it's 60-40 for me. The descends are still the most fun parts, but I don't mind climbing either anymore.
  • 5 0
 Devinci Wilson Kona Process 153 Enduro 29er Every box checked for me
  • 2 0
 Missing a good steel hardtail
  • 3 0
 ..and a fatbike, CXer, BMX and roadbike. Start saving..
  • 1 0
 Hence the last two words, for me!
  • 5 0
 When I was your age I had to pedal uphill in both directions. It sucked.
  • 1 0
 I come from from a DH background so for my true AM bike I'd have to say I'd go for a slight bias to DH. I'd definately say climbing would be my weakness. Having said that, I've spent a full season on an AdHoc and have only good things to say about it's climbing ability. For a bike that rips down as well as it does I'd say it climbs like a goat. Unless I'm riding with an iron lung, racer type, I have no problem keeping up on the uphill. For me the AdHoc feels "just right".
  • 1 0
 There is on average 3-8 drops,rolls,jumps that I ride when I'm out . I have a 29 with 4-5" travel that I will NOT do on those drops etc. it's too hard and risky on the bike and me. So if I know I'm riding those on that day I will take the true all mnt, bike and leave the 29 er at home !!
  • 4 0
 ya why can I only check one of the poll options, 1 bike is so newb
  • 1 0
 Yeah seriously who doesn't have a quiver of bikes after a few years. its always nice to be able to put one in the stand for repairs and ride something else.
  • 2 0
 I would love to see a review on the new Transition patrol. I am worried it may be a little too downhill oriented. I like technical climbs, but I would rather have a bike that holds me back going up rather than going down,
  • 1 0
 I'm really hoping to see a Patrol review up here as well. I wonder if they tested one down in Sedona.
  • 2 1
 I have been a very entry level yet upgraded (better drive train, tubeless wheels, better brakes)120 mm 29er fully from GT. I'm a newer rider. Climbing has been hardest because of a) my own strength/skill tho I certainly have improved b) it's an XL frame and the front end is VERY high.
I recently demo's a 6k trek remedy 9 with 140mm in its low and slack setting on harder trails than I would normally ride and I was stunned at the bike's ability to climb. I attribute it to ever-improving tech in the suspension, lighter weight, and shorter front end. I think that bike falls into 60-40%. Haven't tried a longer legged bike like the enduro 29 or wfo9 (I will always stay on 29) but I am curious for how they feel.
My premise is that if a brand can build a super rowdy bike that somehow climbs OK, that's where I'm going because I already kinda suck on climbs anyway.
  • 1 0
 Thinking about this just a little from my post earlier. I initially thought 50/50. But then realized that when I go out for a 50/50 (climb/descend) I'm on my 115mm Wuuu650. It caters to my climbing weakness and definitely helps me climb more quickly. I can certain rip the descents on it too BUT tend to keep the airs and/or really rough terrain in check. I would never take this bike to the park; thus the reason why I don't know that 50/50 even really fits the AM category. I've ridden my AdHoc in the park and although not at the level of my 216mm DH rig, it certainly can handle pretty much anything I throw it down. Having said this, I'd never consider taking my 216mm DH rig on a "climb" unless I was going simply for DH and there was no shuttle or chair which is why it would fit the 100% or 80/20 category and neither of these ratios would fit true AM . This IS WHERE the 160mm AM bike fits the "sweet Spot". I ride my 160mm Adhoc everywhere I ride my 115mm Wuuu and don't have to walk any sections I wouldn't have to walk my Wuuu. BUT on the down I don't feel held back and rip all but the bigger airs that I don't have mastered (keeping in mind I'm a mortal DH rider). The 160mm sweet spot covers it all and I'd say the AdHoc hits the 60/40 ratio pretty much right on the head. I think 60/40 is really the only ratio that fits AM and really where all AM bikes should be + or - a little. I think perhaps the debate for 6" travel should be more like 55/45 to 65/35 which would fit the climb or descend bias of the AM category better. I think the point is these bikes all climb and descend quite well, just some do one or the other just a bit better. I don't think any are truly 50/50 like some of the comments suggest.
  • 2 0
 Just got a specialized enduro 29, before that stumpjumper evo 26", before that sc nomad II. The enduro is a beast up and down, I don't feel like I'm compromising in ascending or descending! Amazing bike!
  • 4 0
 Full DH bike. I'm only going to push it up anyway so might as well have all the fun on the way down.
  • 4 0
 Anyone sit at there desk in work dreaming about dry dusty climbs, NO! It's all about the descents.
  • 3 1
 I would agree with you on that: I daydream about the downs, but almost never about the climbs. It's different when I'm out there, though, and I end up session'ing techy climbs that take a few tries every now and then. I don't know.. maybe it's the satisfaction of eventually cleaning them? Not sure.
  • 2 0
 Yeah true, always entertaining to try and complete a technical section on a climb, breaks up the monotony of the uphill. I tend to spec my bike with downhill parts, wheelset etc as although I'd like to be quick and nimble up a climb, lighter parts break quicker and need more maintenance especially in the muddy wet winters we have here. I look for parts that can take an absolute hammering on the downhills but I can get away with dragging them around a 50k ride.
  • 1 0
 I agree with a couple of the above commentors, and really the general gist of the post, that it's not a zero game anymore. It used to be that downhill ability meant sacrificing climbing ability. While in the extremes that's still true, the middle ground is growing wider every year. Bikes like Yeti's 575, SB75, et al, are proving that climbing and descending ability can be married.

So while I answered "50% Descending - 50% Climbing", it really is more like "80% - 80%." It's a great time to be a mountain biker!
  • 1 0
 72% downwards and 28% up would be a sofisticated quess. I pedal uphill alot but stay on a trail that I can repeat some times and then it's half pedaling half pushing up. Also these Barcelona trails arent that steep that U would not need some stiffness going down too. I have a modificated old Nomad weighing 14,5Kg.
  • 1 0
 When you add time spent on bike for each direction into the calculation it is almost always 90% or more climb vs. 10% or less descend unless someone takes you and your bike up with a truck or cable car, so I think every non-DH bike should be able to climb well.
  • 1 0
 I honestly don't know how or where I fit in to this category, this is because I have a mongoose teocali that originally was a(26") 5" bike that I Frankenstein-ed (put a 27.5" wheel on the front) and put a float 34 160. I recently have been doing river bottom cruises, but I do occasionally ride dh trails and mostly ride enduro. I AM LOST.
  • 1 0
 My current bike, Nukeproof Mega TR, which is pretty much perfect for my needs, falls under the "pedals uphill pretty well, but also descends very well" category. I think that falls under the 60% descend 40% climb category

If you're going to have a 6" travel bike that you're only ever going to push up/shuttle, why not just buy a downhill rig?
  • 1 0
 A lot if this depends on rider skills and who you ride with as well. I'm above average at climbing and average at best at descending. I would always smoke my 160mm AM buddies going up hill on my mojo sl 140mm, while they would just spank me going down. I sold it and bought a tracer 275 and I'm a lot slower going up but keep up a lot better going down. I do find however that in socal 160mm seems to be the sweet spot, despite there always being plenty of faster dudes on XC 29ers
  • 4 3
 Option one doesn't make much sense to me, any 6 inch bike should be able to climb! Especially now days. But really I would rather just have a hardtail, and a DH bike instead of an all-rounder.
  • 1 0
 Can you not just sort the rear gears to convert a full downhill rig into a enduro ?. If you look in to buying a cheap second hand carbon frame to keep the overall wieght down, e.g. gt fury about 16.5 kgs...
  • 1 0
 Its not weight. Its geometry that matters more.
  • 4 0
 BFe with 160mm DLA Slant. Job done for me.
  • 3 0
 Who in their right mind would build a 6" bike for descending only? Isn't that what a downhill bike is for?
  • 1 2
 Strong climbers, that's who.
  • 1 1
 I WANT MAGIC LINK BACK !!! MORE MAGIC! PLZ PLZ PLZ - yes all capitals! KONAAAAAAAAA I have seen all kind of wanna be travel-geometry changing bikes, but you have one or other, with magic you have both. New Coilair PLZ! My Coilair is around 34.5-35 with full on alex supra bh dh rims. Travel is 188mm rear , 170mm front.
  • 1 1
 I owed a orange alpine160 and it had a wide range casstte, clutch mech, narrow wide 36t ring and rode uphill(with a struggle) along and back down again. It done countless uplift days in Morzine and Wales and also took on the Megavalanche in July. I thought it was one bike to do it all until I got the new Santa Cruz Nomad... Now I can fly up hill on my 42t 11 speed cassette and it decendsvlike a DH bike! No doubt the "bike to do it all" 90%down 10% climb. ( who really likes climbing?)... Lycra and road springs to mind
  • 9 5
 80/20. What's the use of a bike that is rubbish at both?
  • 1 2
 Exactly!
  • 6 0
 someone either didn't read the question or hasn't ridden a modern trail bike...
  • 2 0
 Sometimes you need to pedal 10-20 km to your local freeride/dh trail so proper DH bike with no uphill pedaling ability is totally useless, but on the other hand many modern enduro/trail bikes are still not suitable for big jumps, hard landings, etc.. For this reason I love my Specialized SX trail with 7 inch of travel, 2x9 gearing, long seattube/seatpost.. I can ride it in bikeparks as well as uphill to reach some trails far from lift access or even do 50+ km all day tours.
  • 2 1
 A modern enduro bike is way closer to a DH bike than to an old fashioned XC bike (which is already compromising climbability for a bit of descending performance so at this end of the spectrum should actually be a CXer..), meaning it is not exactly in the middle.

I was thinking of these Cannondale bikes that are claimed to sit right in the middle, handling like an XC bike with more travel. Same goes for these older Scott Geniuses.
  • 6 1
 jekyll!!
  • 3 0
 My Trail bike is a 6.7 inch that climbs like a goat so...no compromises here.
  • 1 0
 +1
  • 2 0
 I'm more of a 0/0 type. I like my trails as flat as possible. I mean to climb up a trail I would have to get into shape, and to go down a trail I would have to sober up.
  • 4 1
 Been there had an all rounder got rid and went back to a dh and an xc bike
  • 2 0
 Think I might do something similar soon.
  • 3 0
 I hope that voltage of yours wasn't meant to be an all rounder... If so, I'm not surprised you didn't get on with it.
  • 4 0
 @goodman245 - A good move for a lot of riders, for sure. Sometimes I feel like these mid-travel bikes are the worst of both worlds rather than the best, but I guess that depends on what you're looking for, and if you can afford two or three bikes.
  • 1 0
 My decision has hit a snag.... Enduro 29er. Shit just got difficult.
  • 1 0
 I might hate it for all DHy stuff though?

Help!
  • 1 0
 650b, best/worst of both worlds, whatever you want to believe.

Personally, mid travel bike suits most of my riding, but I see what you're saying mike. If I had the money, I'd have a downhill bike too, though I'm sure it wouldn't get ridden all that much. n+1 though Wink
  • 2 0
 I don't hang out on the downs. I ride cross country. This article is kinda off.
  • 3 0
 Who shuttles 100% of the time on a 6inch bike.
  • 3 0
 I just ride my dh rig everywhere great workout!!!
  • 3 0
 There needs to be a 80% down 50% up option for Bionicon riders like me.
  • 2 0
 We need to get one of those in for testing. Interesting bikes.
  • 1 0
 My bike is biased toward the centre left. This keeps me friendly with others and loving the forest, but not so much that I end up suddenly hugging trees.
  • 2 0
 Nothing like a consistent percents and unchecked statistics Razz
  • 1 0
 didnt we start using the term enduro in the first place to define an all mtn bike with a heavy bias for descending?
  • 3 0
 The e-word implies a type of racing, not a type of bike. At least in my books. After all, you sometimes see top pros racing on everything from a 120mm bike to a 180mm bike depending on the course. And then there's tire selection and everything else.
  • 1 0
 But alot of these recent designs coming out are built specifically for racing enduro on the EWS and it shows in their geometry. Wouldn't it make sense to call these bikes, which were born to race enduro and all seem to share a heavy bias towards descending, enduro bikes? Gwin won SA on a spec enduro, that doesn't make it a DH bike, same goes for EWS guys using shorter travel all mtn rigs to race enduro on certain courses.
  • 2 0
 As Mike levy said, enduro is a race format plain and simple. When racing enduro, one will come across many different types of bikes. Anything from hardtails to 170mm freeride bikes.
  • 3 1
 wheres the m90ten and the m70 30s to help me decide what bike i need ?
  • 8 7
 I can't help but feel like that Cannondale would destroy the Adhoc on the downs too...
  • 2 0
 I've spent a season on the AdHoc and would take that challenge. It rips!!
  • 1 0
 They just seem like they have very similar geometry, they are both single pivots, and the Cannondale is obviously lighter. The differences are subtle. BB is a bit higher on the C'dale. HA is slightly slacker on the Adhoc. Seattube Angle is slightly steeper on the Adhoc, but the geo differences are subtle and the weight isn't.
  • 1 0
 i thought the same thing too, at a glance. But they both have linkage driven shocks, so theres a lot of room for variance in suspension characteristics. Also the adhocs main pivot is higher and further forward which will favour descending, some things to consider. I'd give them a chance, they built the bb7 and that thing was a full decade ahead of its time and performed amazingly.
  • 1 1
 bb7 disc brake? If so, its the one I use on all my bikes today! Good budget brake. Super reliable, and easy to maintain, even on the ride.
  • 2 1
 you must be trolling, balfa bb7 obviously, the last gen of them to be specific 01-04
  • 2 0
 Having spent a load of time on the Adhoc, I believe that it's up there with the Speci Enduro and other mid-travel bikes that descend like beasts. It's among the best.
  • 1 0
 Not trolling. Just from a different decade. My question is more about how the Cannondale could be bad at descents at all?
  • 2 0
 It does not have to be compromised.
  • 4 1
 Every bike is a compromise in some way. Sure, you may have found some big tires that are light and roll fast, but they won't roll as fast as some speedy XC tire. Even a dropper seat post is a compromise in a way.
  • 1 3
 What do you mean by saying "Even a dropper seat post is a compromise in a way."? Too much weight for xc? In my opinion every single bike should have a kind of a dropper post, even a road bike. Just because of comfort and ergonomics. Weight is a matter of materials and technology. I agree with you about every bike being a compromise in some (only) way, but I would add: every existing bike, ..and I thought, we are here dealing with what is new and is going to be new soon. My wish is to change my bike into something more universal, closer to how universal a rider is. If every amateur rider has a nearly professional bike, than why not having the bike closer to what a rider can do. I can grab an xc bike and hit some uphills, than I can put on a big helmet to face some downhill. Why should I change bike on the top of a mountain? I don't change my body. The universality of a rider is a good reference frame. Generally a human being is the basic reference frame for any designing. This is why Pinkbike can sell the research. If you consider a typical rider, he can do some downhill, do some uphill, do some trail riding or a short road sprint. Neither of the disciplines on a pro level, but most of them possibly by around 70 percent of a pro level (let say time). Earlier, I thought the bike choice is more a matter of preference, individuality, image, comfort. It is hard it imagine a 200 pounds muscle guy on a 9 pounds road bike. Hardly any road bike enthusiast uses a dh bike. It is rather a xc bike that seems a tank for him.
  • 2 0
 Now I think: if we should look for the right way in designing future of our beloved sport, we should focus on more options of keeping the bike more compatible with the rider and his riding style. It is not so hard, as it sounds. Most of us like dh, fr, trail, enduro. If you compare the bikes, the differences are not so clear. (e.g. Pinkbike photo cathegories). It is time to start erasing them and leave the specialised equipment to proriders. In my opinion it is the pro world together with all the commercial fuss that stops the right development. Amateur riding is completely different and it should not be following the pro world the way it does now. However, looking at how the bike world works, it would have to be all about changing all UCI disciplines into a few more universal ones (like enduro), or a global change in how new stuff is promoted by commercials, cups, events etc. Surely I am Individual and surely I speak for myself, but I trully believe in my point. I am spending time on this topic. It looks good, but I haven't meet my results yet.
  • 1 0
 Agreed. Every seat post in the past was a "dropper" post. If you peddled up, drop that carbon post, and hit the dh.
  • 1 1
 In my eyes, the idea of a dropper post is being able to move it up and down, when you want to and without the necessity of stop. Consider the Tour The Country event, it is a 157 km of a full speed race and the seat is 0,8cm too high. The chief mechanic chases you in his skoda octavia estate and he performs a circus adjustment at 70km/h hanging out of a side window. It does not mean the mechanic has to say goodbye to his extra money for the event, but there is a chance your body dimensions, or overall "situation" has changed due to intensive work. I found about five dropper posts available on the market. I bet there are no more than 15 different options to choose from. Most of them cost a lot and weigh even more. There is the third disadvantage too. Why would I need 10cm? 5cm seems extreme to me. A road bike dropper post does not have to by hydraulic, and it's adjustment can be 1cm or maximum 2cm. Why more? It does not sound heavy in my ears. Just utilize some aerodynamic titanium pen spring and paint it to match shoe covers.
  • 1 0
 i climb mostly to descend, but the climb is almost always more effort than the descent.
  • 1 0
 I ride a gt distortion rides like Dh bike on the downs and climbs like a xc bike:p
  • 2 0
 Multiple bike quiver come at me
  • 2 0
 Actually.. the question is... Who is Jim Thorpe?
  • 2 0
 Probably one of the best all-around athletes the world has ever seen, relative to when he was competing

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe
  • 1 0
 I love downhill but i would like the option of being able to ride to the bikepark
  • 1 0
 my bikes female. but i dont mind if she goes the other way. switch hitter. know what im sayin?
  • 3 2
 I ve never said (god that up was amazing )
  • 6 0
 Then start climbing technical descents (safer on a quiet day).
  • 2 0
 A lot if people have. Picking the thoughest sectios while peldaling up (i.e. loose gravel, big rocks, wet roots etc) has help me a lot on the technical side while decending. You just get used to picking yhe toughest lines
  • 1 0
 I've definetely said, "god that was terrible" often, but I usually keep the "I'm glad I did that instead of hitchhiking or taking my own car" part in my head. I think all climbers appreciate the self-sufficiency and the work out. As for technical climbs, they make downhills sweeter than having to hike-a-bike to the top.
  • 2 0
 Personally, I've been just as pumped after cleaning a challenging technical climb that's had me by the balls for awhile as when I ride a hard decent for the first time. I take equal joys from both, but for obviously different reasons.
  • 1 0
 Mike. Can you write something about overtraining. I've been riding on a daily basis for the last week and everyday i ride worst than the other. I think i tired myself too much. Tomorrow i will take a break, hopefully i can ride better on sunday. I love riding but theres got to be a balance. just food for thought cheers
  • 2 0
 What kind of riding do you do?
  • 2 0
 Given that I'm not training for anything, my only rule: take a break when it's not fun anymore.
  • 1 0
 DH and XC
  • 1 0
 Should be able to do both everyday, and all day! I think the exception would be dirt jumping or street because that just wouldn't be comfortable on the back. Tour de France riders are a good example. Take one day off every week or so though.
  • 1 0
 I am from Wales were there are hills !!!!
  • 1 0
 I want 100% descend and 100% climb... Oh hold on...?
  • 1 0
 I have two bike, one for downhill and one for cross-country
  • 1 0
 ....whatever i prefer the track
  • 2 0
 Stumpjumper evo dun
  • 1 0
 All specialized bikes are the same, really they all ride the same. there's nothing to push the rider, or keep him on his toes.
  • 1 0
 The pedals push the rider
  • 1 0
 My fork and wheelset added nearly a kilo to my 6". Big Grin
  • 1 0
 I would rather it climb a little better as we dont have monster decents.
  • 1 0
 Non of those options fit the SB6c.... Beast of a dh bike and climbs great.
  • 1 0
 That bike is a hell of a climber - I was surprised! I'd say that it would come down to the build on the SB6c: its angles are always going to make it more of a handful on the hard and tech climbs than a steeper bike with less travel, there's no way around that. That said, I'd ride an SB6c everywhere with a smart build.
  • 1 0
 Agreed! @mikelevy- In your opinion, which bike is the better climber. The nomad or sb6c?
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy It does climb great! Cant wait to see the PinkBike review.
  • 2 0
 i have a DJ bike so...
  • 1 0
 Some of y'all talk/type too much.
  • 1 1
 Trying to imagine somebody pushing their 6" bike to the top...
  • 2 0
 Pushing? Try pedalling I do it all the time (more like did it since where I lve now the climbs aren't all that)
  • 4 1
 I do it all the time.
  • 1 0
 It is said that "how suffering when you climbing and how high when you descending..."
  • 3 2
 100/100 - no compromises
  • 1 0
 So you ride a 8"ish DH rig and XC hardtail then?
  • 2 1
 Nope. It's says 'how do you want your bike biased?' I don't. That's a stupid idea. I want the best of both, literally. At the moment I settle for a about 80/80. Yes, I'm aware that only makes a vague sense.
  • 2 0
 I am with you on that, I ride my downhill biased 6" travel bike up the hills all hills even if it nearly kills me, then after a short 1-2 min rest thrash it down as fast as any dh rider could
  • 1 2
 Look @mikelevy I'm the best there is, I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence. Doesn't matter what bike I'm on.
  • 1 0
 70 30 for me
  • 1 0
 60/40
  • 3 5
 Santa Cruz Bronson.... problem solved
  • 2 4
 actually, you can have both, it's called hors(t)e-link
  • 5 0
 Nope, its actually called DW link
  • 1 0
 I hope that reply was sarcasm
  • 1 0
 @unfknblvbl Not sarcasm....physics.







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