Well, that was a hell of a show – the 2017 Red Bull Rampage did not disappoint. Then again, with a recipe that includes the most skilled, bravest riders this side of non-motorized, two-wheeled machinery, and some of the hairiest terrain imaginable being sculpted to their liking, the Rampage is always going to be an edge-of-your-seat way to spend a few hours. All these guys, from
Ryan Howard in 18th to Sorge in 1st, leave more skill their sweat-soaked knee pads than most of us will ever possess, a fact that was most apparent while watching the live stream last Saturday.
This was the twelfth running of the burliest event in mountain biking, and it's a competition that's evolved over the years from a raw, big-mountain huck fest to something that's akin to a slope competition held on Mars and tilted to near 90-degrees. More than a decade ago, it was a matter of doing a rake-and-ride off the biggest plumb-bob drop on the course while trying to keep your face off the handlebar, and now we see 720s on downhill bikes, flips and spins off of cliffs, and meticulously prepared lines being ridden with precision.
Just watch Simmons' winning run from 2001 below to see how much things have changed.
Things have progressed, no doubt, and there's no stopping that, but is the Rampage still what it should be? Or, after twelve years of desert drama, is it time for Red Bull to look at changing things up? Should it move to a jam format instead of two judged runs? The prize fund in 2001, the first year of the event, was just $8,000 USD and was up to $200,000 USD last year - is that enough? What if more restrictions were put on time and crew size when it comes to building lines to bring back some of that old Rampage rawness? Does there need to be more or less wood features? Is it time for a change of scenery?
Let's pretend for a minute that you're running the big show - vote first by choosing all that apply, and then tell us in the comment section why and how you'd change Red Bull Rampage.
best combined score.
oh and give the riders double what they get for appearance fees.
say 10 grand each just for doing two runs.
plus award money for top dogs of course
That’s just asinine. Weather conditions could easily mess up some riders chances if both runs were scored. There would likely never be a year when all riders had time for 2 runs in a day sans wind issues and still make it easy for the filmers to cover.
Plus riders are already throwing down hard on run 2 for the most part. If a rider stomped his first run why the hell should he risk it on a 2nd?
let me guess.... you don't like my suggestion?
lol.
Or turn Rampage into a 4 stop world wide event that goes to new places every year.
Giving Tom Vansbergen the score they did ? or Antoine Bizet ? they make a lot better riders than they do judges , definitely change the judging
I guess it could take separating the men from the boys (within the scope of this competition lol) to a whole new level though, as some guys would go for it both times and those who would nail it would be the winners.
Combined scores would actually encourage two conservative runs. It would hurt the go big mentality that could win the event.
What was wrong with this year is that the course was too smoothed out. I went to last years event, less riders completed runs because the course was harder all over the hill - the venue was still unknown and the place wasn’t as smooth as a parking lot.
The judging was pretty spot on this year.
The polls and all the other crap is only here to troll and grab clicks..everybody who wasn't there with something to say is nothing but a fool
More personal
More character building
More about there personal builds up close
There is real stories in this event.. not "the road to" But the riders, there builders and and the challenges they face..
I feel the drama in comments are driven from the lack of drama from the event...
On another note... I've seen a lot of people say that since it's a free ride comp slopestyle flow shouldn't be scored as high and then turn around and fault Van Steenbergen for putting a foot down. Those arguments don't go together. If flow isn't that important who cares if he dropped a foot. On the other hand if flow is all the slopestyle runs would score really well there, just not necessarily as high elsewhere.
At the same time, based on what you just wrote - how does zink and companies vertical drop in combined with his massive flat drop backflip not beat out sorges absolutely monster backflip off a lip??? I get that what sorge rode is completely bonkers, but compared to the what that chute must have looked like in person I just feel like the judges didn't give enough weight to the one place on the course that scared the sh*t out of the craziest riders out there
I have zero illusions about the fact that those 2 were in a class of their own on Friday, but I still have a bad taste in my mouth about the order of the 1st and 2nd place riders. Just my 02 cents.
That would make judging more fair because they'd have a formula how much a trick would weigh against a gnarlier line. It would make things more fair for competitors because they'd know explicitly what the judges were looking for (Tom vanSeteenberg's reaction to the judges' non-reaction summed it up well; if there were transparent judging guidelines like in every other sport, he would have known not to bother with the caveman because tricks were unimportant compared to other things he didn't do as well).
It would make fan bitching about judging more fair because we'd know exactly where the scores came from. If putting a foot down lowered score by x, and we knew that before the run, then we can't fault judges for lowering a score by that much.
2) Treat riders & diggers like a team. The faceless diggers behind these riders are just as important, they should be compensated as well when their rider wins.
3) Transparent judging. Share with the audience which judge gave which score. Example: One judge giving someone an 85 and another giving them a 60, there's something wrong there and they should be called out on it.
And a 4 stop event would be mental
As soon as I saw the preview showing zink/strait/PEF working on that line I was a) terrified for them, and b) hoped the judges would reward that insanity if they had a complete run.
J/K! I agree..victory laps are lame and I hate that about rampage and slope. That's one thing that I love about Rogatkin..that dude sends it every time..even if he crashes mid run!
My other thought is; don't reveal the scores until the end. That way everybody pushes as hard as they can..both runs. Combined score would be tough in regards to the weather. Score the best of two..don't reveal it until everyone has finished.
BTW Stacy..raced with you back in the day...last name rhymes with holla!
i love guessing games.
jimmy dolla is that you?
lol.
was it bmx? was it mx? was it sitski?
was it fourwheels?
gotta give me a hint.
i still use your quote about 'genitals and a running blender' everytime some talks about legal crap and disclaimers etc.....
go ski alta and keep hating, hater.
2) I liked the camera work this year. It wasn't perfect, but the drones are a step in the right direction in adding camera angles.
3) Add a second Hardline event and invite some of the racer style Rampage riders
The Creativity of RED BULL RAMPAGE is what drives the riders and the sport of big mountain freestyle mountain biking!!!
#bulldozethebottom
You literally explained how the judges handled it this year. Congrats!
a) It is essentially a show, just like X-fighters, only outside not in a stadium. We marvel at the skill of the athletes knowing full well, we could not, and should not ever try that. Red Bull should stump up a lot more cash for the riders who are risking their lives in practice and on the day. No, no-one has died yet you can't say that about X-fighters, whose Japanese star Eigo Sato died while practising for the event in 2013. (xgames.espn.com/xgames/article/8999804/japanese-fmx-rider-x-games-competitor-eigo-sato-dies-crash) We want to see increasingly sick, rad huge lines and accept that the rawness will reduce, whilst we secretly pray everyone is OK.
b) It should be essentially a "mates race" for the best FR riders in the world. Red Bull have taken it away from its raw roots in the name of entertainment. Lines and build crews basically turn what was a FR event into a mock slopestyle event with bigger consequences due to the exposure. All this means it becomes increasingly distant from our own riding, and we want to see it return to a true FR event where we, the weekend warrior, could be inspired to do something similar in our local woods / wilderness.
Red Bull is in the business of running everything from a) (Eg: X-fighters and Oakley Sender inspired Rampages) to b) (Eg: Foxhunt) and everything in between (Eg: Hardline).
What I'd prefer to see is a much more rider led steering group, not us idiots here (definitely me included) on PB giving our opinions on potentially life changing decisions for some.
You won't be able to answer that because nowhere do I say where I am on that continuum.
I said everyone thinks somewhere on the continuum where A) is at one end and B) is at the other.
Where are you on that continuum?
I enjoy debate, but get right pissed when people accuse me of shit just because they haven't read shit properly.
Bye.
best trick/best overall/fan favourite/crash of the day/best bike etc
of course, like any democracy, things could go completely wrong
Like (I know this may sound amusing) figure skating.
Post what Judge gave what score etc.. in real time
Do it like big mountain skiing. Every athlete does their run and after all are completed rank them so judges aren’t trying to fit riders in as they come down. Also more time for the judges to critique the runs rather then rush for the live stream.
Also it’s great the builders are getting food now for building days, the mandatory rest day is great and a free phone case is cool. But it would be great to get compensated a bit more for taking two weeks off work to support the rider we dig for. The $5k given to the athlete to cover costs helps us diggers have less expenses incurred over the time. But even $1000 for the time spent building would help cover real life bills after missing an average pay period. After all joyride costs hundreds of thousands to build, they’re not just making the course on good will. Oh, and the guys that spent ONE day pushing a bike up the hill on finals got more swag then the diggers putting sunrise to sunset days in the desert.
That's not how the FWT judges runs.... They judge them as they come down just like Rampage. Good lord.....
@scott-townes:
And I would definitely fire the camera man this year or whoever was in charge of what camera was being broadcast or recorded.
AND maybe keep the Russian and other broadcasters from being so close to each other, being able to hear the broad cast in 3 languages at the same time isn't Necessary .
that line that Zink and Strait hit, that line should be required, or if a rider doesn't hit it, there should be an equalizer move off the top. If riders take an easier line than that, their points should reflect it. Not sure if that's how it turned out or not. The caveman drop was a great option, by the way.
There's a fine line where freeride ends, and slopestyle begins. Spinning a big 3 off a 60ft drop = freeride. Nailing a cork 720 at the bottom = slopestyle. Nailing the cork higher up the the mountain = freeride. The line between the two is there. It's up to Redbull to find it and define it better.
Can't fault the judges. They did great, but the course didn't help matters, as it encourages slopestyle riding at the bottom.
Anyhow, I have a much more positive vibe to this rampage than most, apparently. Loved the announcers, though I wish they had left Pat out and Trusted Cam to do his thing, he's shaping up to a great host/commentator. Missed having Claudio.
Riders win, riders lose. This is the pinnacle of freeride. Some dudes here would want to make this an event that gives out medals down to 10th place. I’m sure even the riders would hate that.
1. Get some more sponsors and increase the prize money - just seems worth it.
2. GIve the teams and ax, shovel, water, a start point, and end point, and let's see the best get wicked.
There are some many rides during the season, plus videos now, where we can see these cats get lose on manicured features. I want to see the best humans take on the best nature.
Hell, maybe make it timed with no tricks.....here is a mountain top in the desert. Here is a valley. Start here. End there. I don;t care how you get there....go.
I didn't feel like I was watching a big mountain event
But I also didn't think that it was a slope style one either
maybe it was a free ride event
But isn't that what Fest series is?
Maybe its a steep freeride event
So big mountain?
So big mountain is steep freeride?
But isnt that what hard line is?
no hardline is extreme downhill
So then what is the Word cup series?
Just downhil...
So whats big mountain?
Lol no wonder everyone is pissed off at the judges! How can a competition be judged with so much ambiguity?!
Maybe Rampage event should be a mix, a kind of festival: a live judged event + a 4 days building + 3 days riding + an extra filming crew and at the end a public vote for the best edit?
I don't know really, but what i know is that we´ve seen is the best rampage event so far and everyone feels robbed. Kyle, Cam, Tyler, Tom, Thomas, Antoine, ... and everyone else who's concerned. My personnal grief comes to PEF (Pierre Edouard Ferry) who absolutely killed it with Cam and Kyle. Best and gnarliest Rampage line so far and he guinea pigged it, don't forget! Balls!
In short, everything is dialled, really, except every rider's feedback.
Everyone must speak about that i dare: riders, judges, Rampage organizers.
Love you guys and thanks for showing so much evolution to our sport. Think about Rampage riding 10 or 17 year ago ...
Have fun riding guys!
1. No building at all, no crew and new, fresh venue. Just pure, raw rampage.
2. All the building they want, wooden features included.
What's the point in restricting wooden ramps if they build huge dirt features instead?
The reason for allowing so much building was to support rider safety and for progression. They wanted riders to be comfortable to go bigger and go harder and that means solid landings that are man made. This seems to have been very successful this year when you consider how few people actually crashed on their runs (not that you can contribute that fact solely to build crews but it clearly paid a part of it).
One of the really interesting things Derek mentioned though was them considering having more than one event to Rampage - like a freeride world tour. This would open up the possibilites of finding mountains that were maybe a bit mellower but could be ridden with fewer man made features. I think this is super cool because it gets rid of the compromise between going bigger and harder and having more natural lines.
If you want to see the interview for yourself it's on YouTube at 1:13:15 youtu.be/WkTiMTr08YI
For link to the correct time
Every rider there should get paid the exact same amount. Fighters are different but kind of like fighters. UFC. You show up in the ring to get your butt kicked you get paid. You win... you get paid more.
All 20 get paid.
Look at it this way Conor flew in. Road. Got hurt riding. Didn't get to ride finals. Didn't get paid out. They get travel pay which is nice... but they should all get $10k just to show up.
RB has the money.
- Jumps will be two times longer
- Riders will be in swimsuit
- Girls at the finish will be nude
....it may be funny
It was better watching practise than the finals IMO.
Maybe a progression of lines that all riders run without practise and those who complete the series of line re-run them, then the judges are used. Otherwise whoever makes it wins. Like a reverse Widow maker hillclimb.
... I had a crazy idea though: Keep everything the same, but let's make the top 5 riders ride another top 5 riders line, and then judge those runs, and that should be the actual winner. So, the top 5, is actually a qualifying, and those top riders have to ride one of the other top riders lines, too ... and then we judge those runs for the actual final winners.
I realize how gnarly this would be, the runs are already life/death ... it would be so gnarly to see those top riders turn around and shred another guys line, as well. So gnar! Too gnar?
KEEP IT FREERIDE FOR F##K SAKE!
Great camerawork and drones and go pros and videographers, for sure, but still the event could be captured more and better I think, and we could lessen the whole "you need to be there in person to understand" thing. Sometimes too much contrast between dark and light took away from the awesomeness of the lines and stunts. Just like how pro mainstream sport coverage filming incrementally improves, gotta keep feet on the gas there too. Wish each run had more video cameras and angles on the lines.
I hope the judges have already determined the line difficulty scores in the days before, and not making it up on the spot (which could make things inconsistent). They would need the ability to adjust score if someone takes an alternate route.
RAW, RAW RAW!! Take away some of the slopestyle jumps, let the riders get more build time. It gets too repetitive at the bottom; and the top felt like riders didn't have time to complete their visions. Remember when Kelly Mcgarry totaled his bike on the canyon jump!? Lets get that gnarly shit back!
AND we need some GRAHAM AGASSIZ!
Some athletes may even cross over and enter both events.
Just my opinion, I love Rampage as it is and although Bizet deserved maybe 4th people saying that was a winning run are nuts. Overall I was pretty happy with the judging this year.
Now, I'm not here to suggest that the filmers and folks behind the scenes are even slightly incompetent. Filming on the side of a cliff seems like no easy task, let alone live for millions of viewers. But, it seems impossible to try and digest the whole event as one big scene. Much like the building, it would make sense for shots to be tailored to specific riders' lines.
I'm suggesting that we add a separate layer of competition, surrounding the filming. Each rider should not only have their own trail building team, but also their own film team who will fight to capture the true essence, scale, and style of their rider's specific line. This would not only display the riding, but would also showcase some of the brilliant videographers and creators of the brilliant mtb content that we so love to consume. Imagine what they could accomplish, if given the opportunity to really focus on one rider, on one line.
I think there is space for a new event that get backs to the roots of what rampage was whilst maintaining what we currently have. Rampage and Rampage Raw. 2 events; one the most extreme and wild slope style ever and two, one man, his bike and a big ass mountain. I'd certainly tune into both!
Also - camera angles! It's only once you've started trawling through the various rider POVs and 3rd partly social media clips post event that you start getting a true appreciation of what the riders are really pulling off. Perhaps more technical commentary and motion graphics - show air amplitude, explain the degree of the Shute, what speed are the riders going, how many feet is the drop, etc. Most notably - do away with 1st, 2nd and 3rd position and instead award: most difficult line, best tricks and style, etc. The world's top freeride 'contest' should award specific styles - not try and turn all the riders runs into a prescribed carbon copy of each other based on set criteria. Long live The Rampage! ????
i would like so much to go where all is born, in the canadian north shore. tons of wooden structures, catwalks everywhere...and the enchanted forest of the BC. with some of the free ride heroes still in activity and most still able to ride at amazing levels... everything would be there! story, myth,show, technical skills, bravery, phantasy..
I'm just kidding -- ALL Judges must have be previous competitors of Rampage.
NO E BIKES. GO send it on your dirt bike then !
B. New venue
They really do give a better view of the gnarly, steep an massive terrain the riders are dealing with!
A lot of debating on the judging is always a factor. I think if there was helmet cam views for the public licence commentators it would help to understand the judging a bit better.
Also
I watched the Tippie vids of practice an again you really get a better view (an understanding) than some of the heli an drone filming
If a rider more known for slope comps pulls a flip or twist
"aw man it's not a slope comp"
Then if a rider more known for big mtn video parts pulls the same flip.....
"yeah man keeping big mtn big"
Example
a certain rider who got judged maybe a bit low was slated in PB comments for "it's big mtn FR not a slope comp" despite hitting more natural steep unsculpted terrain than the winning riders 100% sculpted line........
ALL of these riders are very capable, rounded riders... Otherwise they simply wouldn't be there. To slate them as too slope when all but a few riders this year hit perfectly sculpted lines
Kinda sucks
Everyone wins.
Did they really say 200 000$?
I can't believe that our guys have finally started to earn the deserved money!
But how did it happen? I somehow missed it.
Then you could have the overall FREERIDE champion!
Make freeride great again and 26inch wheels....;-)!!!!