Pinkbike Poll: What Would Your Dream Shock Look Like?

Aug 19, 2022
by Seb Stott  
Fox suspension. Photo by Stefan Licko

Recently we got the scoop on Fox's prototype electronic shock. The following weekend, Jesse Melamed rode it at the Whistler EWS and won in emphatic style, taking four out of six stage wins. Also riding the new Fox shock was Richie Rude, who was snapping at Jesse's heels until a puncture took him out.

Now, I'd be the first to admit that race results don't say much about the bike. After all, watching Jesse and Richie battling it out at the front of the pack is far from unusual this season. But those results do suggest the shock was at least not letting them down. Also, in our interview at the test session, Jesse said the shock was performing no worse than the coil shock he was running before. Sure, he's a sponsored rider who isn't going to tell the media that Fox's future halo product is a dud, but given that he chose to race (and win) on the shock soon after, I'm inclined to take him at his word.

Richie Rude charging but no match for Jesse Melamed

But my point here isn't about the electronics.

I'm not trying to convince you that electronic shocks are necessary or even an advantage. The really interesting thing about this shock is that it's essentially a Float X: a consumer-friendly, lightweight and relatively simple single-tube air shock. Jesse and Richie were apparently willing to switch from four-way adjustable, twin-tube shocks (a coil X2 in Jesse's case and a Float X2 in Richie's) to what is essentially a simpler damper (albeit with an automatic lockout switch), and it didn't seem to be a problem on one of the roughest EWS courses.

The RockShox Super Deluxe shock is relatively low on features but high on WC and EWS wins.

And while we're at it, it's worth remembering that every RockShox athlete in EWS and downhill is running a single-tube shock with two external damping adjusters.

Suspension Nanny isn't the worst title...

So while most of the comments on the article about Fox's prototype electronic shock were complaining that we don't need more expensive and more complicated bikes (and I'm inclined to agree), my takeaway is the opposite. Ignore the electronics - an air shock with a relatively simple damper was good enough for the two fastest enduro racers in the world right now on one of the gnarliest courses. So, do we need twin-tube, four-way adjustable dampers with thousands of combinations of clicker settings? Do we need coil springs on enduro bikes? After all, a relatively simple air shock that's cheap, light and easy to set up has got to be a benefit for the average rider.

Push ElevenSix
Which of these dials do I turn to ride faster?

So, which shock features do you need?

Which features/adjustments would your ideal shock have?





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452 Comments

  • 220 21
 I've ridden the push 11-6 for several years now and it offers no performance gains compared to a well tuned air shock. also the fact theres a million clicks for each thing makes it hard to tune. I think most people who love it so hard are just justifying their purchase. There, I said it, now bring on the haters.
  • 37 4
 As an 11-6 owner, I agree 100%. In fact, the 11-6 became my backup shock that sits in a drawer unless the Float X is out of commission for some reason.
  • 52 3
 It certainly offers a performance gain over every air shock and that is just the nature of the coil spring, the damping however is very competent but not better or worse than your storia / high end fox / whatnot. If the tune fits they all work a treat.

By the way, I tested them all but paid for none. Comes with the job. So I am not one of those trying to justify their purchase.
  • 37 29
 Hot take: fox shocks with reservoirs are sub par
  • 46 4
 I'm sure there are legitimately people out there who will spend the time to methodically change settings, write down observations, and get the whole setup dialed.... but I've literally never met one of those ppl in real life. Might just be my stage of life and the people I'm friends with but everyone I know wants to spend their limited trail time just riding and not messing with dials, even if that means some theoretical performance is left on the table. Even the guys who spent the money for a CC Kitsuma or whatever.

Then again, I know I'll probably never be buying anything in the 4-knobs price range so maybe I'm just justifying my own cheapskate/luddite views lol.
  • 3 2
 Make that two. With the stock spring, which I was already on the lighter end of recommended coil rate, I still bottom the shit out of mine(10ish times in a ride) To the point where I would keep bending shock hardware. Went up 25 pounds, still bottom out, but the small bump is gone. On a Sentinel V2, so not a linear bike either.
  • 11 1
 @Helmchentuned: my experience is it’s highly dependent on the bike’s kinematics whether a coil or air will be better. If a bike is designed around an airshock it can feel just as good while being lighter and more tunable, but some designs do need a coil to feel right.
  • 22 0
 @Explodo: so 11-6=5 rating
  • 2 0
 @havroski: I had this problem...sort of. Push spec'd the shock with a 500lb spring for my Shred Dogg and that wasn't enough. I went up to a 525 and still had issues. I then got a 550-610 Sprindex and found that 575 is what I needed.
  • 47 3
 @bkm303: I find this fascinating. What's the point of buying something fancy and highly adjustable if you don't bother to adjust it to actually benefit your riding? The process takes all of 15 minutes and doesn't need to happen on the trial while your friends are waiting around. Once it's good it's good unless you lose or gain a ton of weight or make some other major change to your bike. I'm not about to tell you how to spend your time, but fork and shock settings and tire pressure are free and make a massive performance difference when right (or wrong) for you and your riding
  • 52 2
 @hallj2 that's your experience you need to contact our tech support team to work on getting you a better setup for your bike. For what it costs...your experience should be amazing. Also....we do have this tool available: www.pushindustries.com/pages/elevensix-tuning-guide
  • 36 0
 @Explodo: As I mentioned....for what we charge, your experience should be amazing. Reach out to our tech support team and let them work to get you sorted. We're not happy until you are!
  • 10 0
 @VtVolk: I've certainly found that different trails and different weather conditions kind of ask for different settings - I certainly take a couple of clicks off the dampers over winter when it's slower and traction is more important than support. So in my opinion (it's your bike, ride it how you like), once it's good, it's not good forever, unless you only ride one trail network in the same weather. In which case, a simpler setup makes sense.
The number of setup options we have must rival F1, where they have teams of engineers running design of experiments to optimise the system. We have can pressure, positive volume, negative volume, HSC, LSC, HSR, LSR, hydraulic bottom out, not to mention aftermarket links. There's no way an average human can optimise that lot, especially once you factor in tiredness, line choice run to run, bias, etc...
  • 4 0
 @havroski: I'm sure that's what compression damping is for..
  • 2 0
 @darkstar66: No doubt - tried just about every setting possible on it.
  • 6 1
 @bkm303: I love dialing my stuff in. I like tuning and even change settings for different tracks sometimes. But my favorite shock right now is a rockshox superdelux that came on my Bronson. If the suspension design of a bike is mated to a good tune by a shock then all of those adjustment knobs don’t mean as much. Then again I’m average height and weight. Get Richie Rude or Prince on my bike and they might need those knobs.
  • 35 2
 @VtVolk: there is absolutely no way you're finding the optimal setting on all 4 damper dials, plus pressure, plus volume spacers, with all the effects those settings have on one another, in 15 minutes. That's not even enough time for a single lap.

I'm not talking about people riding around on grossly mis-tuned shocks that bob and bottom out constantly. I'm just saying the vast majority of riders get a shock/fork to "good enough to not be annoying" settings and just ride. If you listen to experts talk about how suspension really gets tuned and optimized (change a setting, do a run, write down observations, repeat), it's a really time consuming process. Most people don't do that.
  • 3 2
 I went through the same process with the 11-6. Had two of them and each time I liked the stock X2 better. Shocks in general have gotten so much better in the last few years. I used to HATE the DPS shocks that came stock on a lot of bikes. Bought an SWorks SJ earlier this year that came with the latest version of the DPS so I bought an Ohlins TTX Air with the correct tune for the SJ. Put it on and the performance was not even close to the stock DPS Factory. Now the Ohlins is a backup. Similarly, have a new Fox Float base model on my HT3 which I actually really like as well.
  • 9 7
 @PUSH: For what you charge, your people should have been more helpful when the outside diameter of your fancy spherical bearing was too big for the Shred Dogg rear shock mount. I just ended up filing down the outside diameter(nothing to do with width...see part 2) of the bushing a little so it would fit. In addition, for what you charge, the rear bushings should be the right width so the rear doesn't have to visibly flex in to clamp down on the shock.
  • 15 4
 @dthomp325: If you work with air springs long enough, you spec a coil. It is not a matter of linkage design, a coil spring is always more linear and never concerned with lubrication, humidity or temperature. Also the coil spring does not act differently with different shaft velocities which the air spring does. I know only a very limited amount of bikes that do not work with a coil shock, however these are also the bikes that work shitty with an air shock as well.
  • 10 0
 @bkm303: I am this person you speak of.

You can spend the time riding and having fun, just make notes and think about adjustments after / before the next ride. This is half the fun for me though.
  • 8 1
 @bkm303: I spent a whole afternoon doing back to back runs bracketing my suspension, and wound up changing one adjuster one click in the end. I won't bother again.
  • 17 1
 @Explodo: Are you saying that you had to file down the shock eyelet? We obviously ship a lot of GG shocks as they sell them with the bike and are not aware of an issue. GG also hasn't mentioned it to us.
  • 3 5
 @bkm303: I am one of those types (engineer) I always write down my settings, conditions, and trails I ride and I've tested close to 50 combinations at this point.
  • 1 0
 @dthomp325: I also agree, mine is on an evil insurgent, so the curve is all cracked out, steep then flat then steep again so maybe that has something to do with it but not sure that means it's better for one type of shock over another. and they sell these with a push option so...
  • 1 0
 @VtVolk: I have tested a ton of combinations to try and figure this out and still have troubles, it definitely still changes with temperature, terrain type, speed, and weather so the set and forget doesn't always work unless the trails you ride are always the same and the weather is consistent.
  • 1 0
 @PUSH: Thanks push, I did do that several times and didn't really get much of a good response besides changing the dials until its better, which I understand is truly part of the process.
  • 1 1
 @mountainsofsussex: Agreed, I basically said the same thing before reading your response. if you use the same settings on a 30F day as you do on a 90F day you are gonna have a bad time, and vice versa and you might die...
  • 4 0
 @mtb-thetown: lol that's amazing. Way to stick with it though!

@Toyoter91 @hallj2 I used to like dicking around with my setup a lot more before I had kids... I keep the settings in my phone but haven't changed anything in years (other than for weight loss). For the most part, I only notice really coarse damper adjustments so I've always been pretty meh about turning the knobs.
  • 1 4
 @Helmchentuned: if a coil doesn't act differently with different shaft velocities then why is there HSC and LSC adjustment on coil shocks?
  • 9 0
 @hallj2: He is talking about anabolic pressure spikes that occur when air is compressed rapidly.
  • 9 1
 My experience with the Push 11-6 on my Evil Wreckoning could have been more different. It was such a huge huge difference over the stock RS Monarch. That said, the monarch doesn't fit the bill of a "well tuned air shock" does it! None the less, the 11-6 works amazingly well on the wreck and I couldn't have been more impressed with its performance. I certainly haven't been anywhere near as happy with the EXT storia I now have only my Pole.
  • 13 22
flag fullendurbro (Aug 19, 2022 at 14:41) (Below Threshold)
 I also have an 11-6 and see your criticism and raise you a super polarizing opinion: Push shocks are absolute bollocks and are loved passionately by dude's with no talent who couldn't tell you the difference between a rebound knob and a compression knob. The same type of dude who definitely wears a Bell Helmet.

My Push feels good now, but it took one rebuild, a new spring rate, and a massive departure from every f*cking setting they sent me for my "custom" tune (that happens to be the same tune they give to 44 year old middle managers at small market cap B2B companies).
  • 2 1
 @fullendurbro: yeah I'm basically thinking I'm in the middle of figuring out those massive departure settings so maybe it will get better. I think the biggest thing I noticed with fanboys is that soft does not equal good... when I first got mine it was like riding on mush, changed spring rates and upped compression but there's this weird fine line where it's either way to hard and you loose grip or just goes back to absolute mush status and you can't carry any speed at all.
  • 5 2
 But....blah blah blah my expensive part HAS to be better.......
  • 1 0
 @havroski: It's unclear as to what product you're talking about, sounds dire though.
  • 1 0
 @Explodo: What do you weigh if that's not too personal a question?
  • 1 0
 @btthero: 210lbs
  • 5 3
 100% agree. I've had two Push shocks and neither was even close to decent value. Quality of the internals is questionable too. My last one needed to be stripped after two rides because it rode incredibly rough and no setting change really helped. Full rebuild including replacement of parts and modifications to stop the goddam rebound needle from sticking and it still felt average at best. They fit well in the MTB industry as they have their marketing dialed..performance not so much imo.
  • 1 0
 @me2menow: Nah, the X2 is pretty amazing when it works. I guess you could call that subpar in terms of reliability, but I can definitely see the appeal of it for people that perform at a high level (AKA, not my level).
  • 2 0
 The 11-6 won't fit my bike so I was never tempted in the first place. That said, I'm really curious about their fork coil conversion kit...
  • 2 0
 @havroski: it’s hard to believe you went up 5% in spring rate and your small bump is gone. Easier to believe you are still bottoming out.
  • 6 2
 Push owner here and I disagree on the performance gains. It could have less clicks like you said but mines dialed and I have no need to touch it. I put one on a V3 following and it made the bike so much better. It climbed great with the deluxe ultimate but it’s effortless with the push. The amount of traction gain is noticeable and probably what makes it so much better. I ride it in open all the time. On the downhills it much more capable, just feels better more confident, not as skiddish as the air. I do bottom it out and I bottom it out hard, but I dgaf. If I drop or jump to transition there are no issues. For what it’s worth, I have a super deluxe ultimate on my wreckoning and that feels great too, not planning on upgrading. I did have a dhx2 on a sb165 and even though it was butter smooth, I couldn’t get it dialed in after a year of tinkering and ended up selling the bike.
  • 2 1
 @bkm303: I'm one of those people.
I have a collection of long notepad files in my phone for the various suspension units on my bikes.
Partly it's enjoying the nerdery, partly it's living dadlife and doing most of my riding solo.
I'm still slower than half my friends, but I enjoy the process. You do you.
  • 4 0
 @VtVolk: you got a link to setting up your shock in 15 minutes, lsc/hsc lsr/hsr without hitting the trail.
  • 10 0
 @fullendurbro: what’s your problem with bell helmets? I feel triggered
  • 2 0
 @bkm303: Agree totally, and since i'm not better than the fork or the shock i have right now - and probably ok certainly never will be - i have no need to throw money at something that could be better used for after ride beers.
  • 2 0
 @EarIysport: do it. I have the coil conversion and Push's damper on a Pike Ultimate and the ride is very very good.
  • 7 2
 I wonder what bike folks are riding. I've an 11-6 on a handful of high leverage and progressive bikes and it's truly a game changer. For me I like traction way more than "poppy amd playful ". I feel the push shock is made for traction and people are accustomed to feeling thier suspension. That's not a good thing. If your bike feels dead then your suspension is dialed and where it should be. I think that if you're not feeling the performance, you're used to poor suspension that you can actually feel. Just my .02
  • 2 0
 I don't disagree that more dials make better. Really for me its just more to screw up.
But coils are so good. Night and day difference for me over air. I wish l could get a coil for my baby shocked xc/trail bike that would be awesome!
  • 1 3
 I got the opportunity to demo an 11-6 that was tuned for my bike (not specifically for me, but generally for my bike) and thought it was good, but not $1200 good. I ended up getting a Float X2. It's way better than the 11-6, IMO.
  • 5 0
 I've moved from a Lyrik Ultimate and Float X2 to a 36 Rhythm and Float DPX Performance, basically losing all of the fancy knobs and fancy damping circuits. Couldn't be happier with how it rides.
  • 1 0
 "for some reason" we love to hate them. they work well when they do.
  • 1 0
 @Explodo: the float X is an awesome little shock. I resurfaced the piston on mine like fox recommended to get rid of the rattling/knocking and now it rides like a dream.
  • 2 0
 @VtVolk: I think setting up your suspension properly without riding a trail in less than 15 mins is not possible.
  • 1 0
 @VtVolk: I totally agree, if you splash out for a shock with all the knobs, you ought to use them. But what is this 15 minutes process you speak of? I can spend all year fiddling!?
  • 1 0
 @bkm303: that's me! Suspension settings going back to a manitou swinger all written with notes. I ride came creek double barrel shock now and love them
  • 4 0
 @fullendurbro: well ya, there are only a few tunes that are proven to work and you get the tune based on your rider input and weight etc. Unless your Pro status your not going to get a custom stack no one else has and other tweaks. Same with EXT and others.
  • 3 0
 @Helmchentuned: I second that ! I ride all year in vastly different altitudes and conditions which is why I switched to a coil shock. Spent last winter re adjusting shock pressure to have the ride feel I expect, by the end I had to leave my bike outside (20deg inside, around 0deg outside) to have is at temp and then do my setting otherwise it was like chasing my tail.
Last weekend I f*cked my hands at my local bike park because of my fork air pressure. Before that I spent 2 weeks riding bike parks in the Alps by 30deg minimum and had my fork adjusted to work well. Turns out riding by 20deg and 500m lower resulted in a loss of roughly 10psi which made the fork ride like crap.
If you ride air you should be willing to check your pressure before each ride, and probably during your ride if you are at the bike park where usually mornings are much cooler than afternoon. I am not willing to do that so I need to convert my fork to coil as well, done with the faffing.
  • 5 1
 @Balgaroth: Your experience is why I modded my fork with a coil from Vorsprung.
I also bought a coil shock, and while it is nice, the performance gains are not nearly as good as in the fork.
Added to that, the coil rubbed a lot on the shock and for a year now I can't get the right coil for my weight. So I went back to the simple Fox DPX2 and I'm really fine.
But I don't think I can ever go back from the Vorsprung Smashpot in the front. It's not just the coil, the hydraulic bottom out is magic too.
  • 3 0
 Tuned Van RC = best
  • 3 1
 I am not sure why people tend to try one coil shock and then draw definite conclusions about coil vs air shocks in general. Shock is a spring and damper, there are really bad dampers out there. There are coil socks optimized for uphill performance with damper specifically crippled to they do not bob uphill... Regarding springs, there is only one spring worth buying - the Sprindex. Buy decent shock, sprindex and it will work great.
  • 4 1
 @hallj2: so your dumping on Push but you clearly have no idea about how shocks work or possibly how to tune them. Shameful
  • 2 0
 @stepf: Agreed… I buy the high end super adjustable stuff because is not much more expensive than the middle of the pack stuff (think Fox Factory v. Fox Performance…. Or RS Ultimate v. Select), and because it helps with resale. But once I find settings I like for either, I’m good, and I can’t tell the difference between the high and mid level components while riding. But, with the highly adjustable stuff, I’m always thinking that if something doesn’t “feel right”,, I should “make an adjustment”.
  • 3 1
 @bkm303: it’s part of the fun if you’re actually pushing. Most people are shit at the sport man, so in general it is always going to be right that they don’t need all the adjustments.
  • 1 0
 @EarIysport: yes and no. The spring it came with was already on the high side - closer to 28 sag point. So the additional 5 percent makes a big difference in small bumb
  • 1 0
 @lkubica: sprinted is nice but being a heavy person they don’t make anything I can use.
  • 2 0
 Dentist?@puercoespin:
  • 1 0
 @PUSH: I also had to file my shred dogg seat stay shock mounts. Not the shock itself just the frame. Didn’t take much but kinda sucked having to do.
  • 1 0
 @salespunk: l recently swapped out a new X2 for a tuned Float X. Much prefer the X.
  • 2 2
 I couldn't more strongly disagree. Riding any other type of shock other than the push makes it feel like I am riding a toy bike. I'm not a push 'fan boy' etc. and I find it interesting our experience differs so much. TBH - I adjusted the push grand total of twice, first when I got it, and 2nd when I threw a cascade link on (now that is another whole ball of wax). Anyways - maybe get it set up / contact push etc. You should be having the best riding possible with that equipment.
  • 1 1
 @CDT77: what else have you used that’s comparable?
  • 1 0
 @nvranka: Nothing that is comparable. Lots that isn't. Gun to my head to pick a runner up would be the Fox X2 (on a Yeti SB150).
  • 1 1
 Sounds like you got a poorly made bike. Cheep bikes are cheep for this reason. Don’t shoot the messenger on this one buddy @Explodo:
  • 1 1
 Your definitely right with this @fullendurbro:
  • 1 0
 @lkubica: What makes Sprindex so much better (in your experience)?
  • 3 0
 @sonuvagun: Any other spring is a hit or miss. 50lbs gap i waay too much to properly set sag, but the worst thing are tolerances, so you buy two spring like 400 and 450 and the first is really 410 and the latter can be 440 or 460. So even with 25lbs gap you really need some luck and they are expensive. Sprindex is the only option to set your sag properly, assuming you are somewhere in the middle of their range. Spring preload is not the proper way to set sag because preloaded spring looses sensitivity which makes using spring kind of pointless.
  • 2 0
 @lkubica: Okay, I'm confused, how do you set sag on a Sprindex if not by preload?
  • 1 0
 @murphenzo: I threw the Monarch out of my Rig and replaced it with a Vivid Air. Whole new bike. Point being: the Monarch wasn't a good shock, so any decent shock will make a big improvement.
  • 2 1
 That’s not really how it works tho. That still doesn’t change anything about the beginning stroke or even mid stroke. It’s all ramp up at the end lol @lkubica:
  • 2 1
 You don’t lol @sonuvagun:
  • 2 1
 @bkm303: I think you’re mixing up the suspension tuning process for pros to eek out tenths of seconds, vs middle aged dad going for an after work lap. I don’t think most people are spending anymore than a passing thought on suspension settings, especially when most can’t consistently ride the same trail, at the same pace, on the same line, and then articulate that gathered data to change the myriad of suspension settings.

15 mins gets you in the ballpark, and that’s what most are after. In reality, any additional tuning will be lost on most, as the differences are subtle, and come at the sharp end of performance, most aren’t riding there.

The Grip and Charger damper is more than capable for most, with easy to use and understand knobs and settings.
  • 2 0
 @salespunk: you bought a replacement shock for a new bike without riding the bike in the stock configuration first?
No judgment, just curious how common that is.
  • 1 0
 @hallj2: you know what they, how do you know when someone is an engineer…..

Just wait



They’ll tell you
  • 1 0
 @mtb-thetown: that’s pretty cool, it’s rare, how did you find the process?
Where did you get the base tune from, bike or suspension manufacturer?
What suspension were you working on?

Honestly curious, no judgment here.
I spend lots of time knob twiddling, and trying new things, part of the enjoyment for me, but I recognize it’s not for everyone.
Several friends feel the same way as you.

Did a poll amongst 20 or so riding buddies about how often they check sag, want to say under 20% do it with any sort of regularity, which was surprising at first, but I better understand their sentiment
  • 1 0
 @murphenzo: hm my 11-6 needed me to over spring my bike 75lbs and I still bottom hard when I send to flat. The HBO doesn’t feel at all as strong as an ext. I use it for free ride
  • 2 0
 @bkm303: weight loss when you've had kids? I'm guessing you put your wallet in your pack.
  • 6 0
 @sonuvagun: preload isn’t used to set sag on a coil shock, mostly to take up the slack in the spring.
Sag is determined by the spring rate, hence the need for different springs based on rider weight.
Sprindex alters the spring rate (within a certain range) by reducing the amount of active coils in the spring.
So you can alter the sag (spring rate) using a Sprindex, but it needs to fall within a predetermined range that Sprindex works in.
  • 1 1
 @onawalk: You know, the stupid thing is, I know that (I ride a coil shock). But when I read ikubica's post about spring preload not being the best way to set sag, I found myself trying to make sense of what he was saying. Anyways, cheers for that.
  • 2 0
 @hallj2: We are talking about the spring. Air springs behave differently to different accelerations. A coil spring does not. has nothing to do with the hydraulics of the shock. We are talking about spring damping, which an air spring has and a coil does not.
  • 3 1
 @sonuvagun: It works like this, you need a force to compress a sprng by a distance of x. So if you have 350lbs spring it means you need extra 350lb of force to compress it by extra inch (why 350 when your weight is like 150? well, because you have suspension ratio typically close to 3.0 at the beginning of your stroke). Lets say you just dialed 1inch of preload (I am exaggerating to make calsulations simpler). So now you need more than 350lb force to move your suspension even 0.1 inch. But not preloaded will require very little force to move it by those 0.1 inch (of course this force will be proportional to the spring rate, but still low). This of course not sagged, but they idea is the same, when you preload a spring and sit on a bike, you need much more force to move it even tiny bit then when not preloaded (exactly you need an extra force comming from preload). This means that now your spring shock acts like an air shock, it need much more breakaway force just to start moving. So of course you can set sag with preload but buying a spring with a correct rate is much better.
  • 1 0
 @theobviousfaker: I currently run my FOX 38 with Vorsprung Smashpot and resized bushings. Never had a better fork. Works a treat together with the DHX2 at the backend of the bike.
  • 2 2
 Actually I am talking bullshit Smile It will be other way round, if you take 350lb spring and preload it to have same sag as 400lb spring you do not loose any sensitivity but you 350lb spring will simply bottom out more easily.
  • 2 0
 @kevinturner12: lol no I'm biking to work a lot more, pulling the kids to daycare/pump track in a trailer, and squeezing in road/gravel rides from home instead of driving to the trailhead to mtb. And I just got a direct drive trainer. Not mtbing as much as I used to but spending more time/miles on bikes overall which is cool!
  • 1 0
 @lkubica: Whoa, whoa, whoa, (ale popolsku) czekaj, czekaj, czekaj, cholera jasne....nie mam zielenego pojęcia o co mowimy teraz.

If we're talking about: Preload factor of x = more force required to move coil (no idea how to notate that mathematically but I get the feeling you do) then okay, I'm with ya chief.
But now I'm all messed up, because now that I think about it, I DID adjust the preload on my coil to change the sag rate....or at least I think I did. I have a CC coil and that thing took me quite a while to dial in. AND I haven't touched it since then.
Seriously, I don't even know what we're talking about now. Something about Sprindex :/
  • 2 2
 @forevertwosix: Maybe you pick crappy lines and you’re not a smooth rider.
  • 2 2
 @Explodo: I mean you’re riding a Gorilla Gravity who even knows if their tolerances for their shock mounts are right.
  • 2 1
 @SpinningAddiction: My calipers say that the 11-6 end is too narrow to fit properly. My FloatX bushings are the right width.
  • 1 1
 They like commencal make terrible frames @SpinningAddiction:
  • 1 0
 @nickfranko: so you admit that youre not qualified to judge its performance...interesting
  • 1 1
 @Helmchentuned: ?! How does this air spring damping without a damper work?!
Ignoring The slight increase in friction due to larger seals in the air shock, and really small transient effects due to heat transfer, the only difference between an air spring and a coil spring should be spring rate? The spring rate of the air-spring will follow the ideal gas law (restorative force is a nonlinear function of travel) whereas the spring rate of the coil is constant (restorative force is a linear function of travel).
  • 1 0
 @st-lupo: Put your air spring on a suspension dyno and you shall be enlightened.
  • 1 0
 @Helmchentuned: But all of my air springs have a damper attached? Event if I drained the oil from the damper, there is still valving in the damper circuit that will act as a damper (introduce lag). Before I splash out on a dyno test, I want to understand the full experiment.
  • 151 1
 A very high quality damper with less adjustment, but stupid simple serviceability.
  • 12 0
 Preach! I don't care that much about messing with settings but I do wanna keep it running smooth and quiet.
  • 4 0
 This cannot get enough upvotes.
  • 12 3
 I don't want to service anything, the bloody thing better last a few years without me touching it.
  • 1 0
 This, exactly
  • 14 1
 @rarerider: Also true. I can get a 100K km out of a damper in a pick up truck on gravel roads... why does my bike shock need service 25 times as often?
  • 9 1
 @me2menow: most dampers are easy to service, the problem is that most use f*cking proprietary tool ! All shocks should use standard schrader valves, standard sockets and allen/torx keys. In that front Suntour/DVO are pretty good. Manitou on the other hand manages to even make fork lowers a difficult process if you don't get their BS tools. Make shit with standard tools FFS.
  • 2 0
 I have 2 kids under 5. (I'm sure that's the same as many of you)
When I find time to ride my expensive bike I don't want to be thinking about how it's not working properly.

I had a float X2. As per the other comments it was excellent when it worked, but that wasn't often enough.
I changed it for a Bomber CR which I had tuned and it's been set and forget ever since.

Simple may not reach the peak levels of the fancy stuff but it ruins less rides.
  • 4 0
 @ShawMac: The dampers in your truck see much higher forces and therefore a change in seal friction or whatnot will be a much smaller percentage of change vs your bicycle that sees much smaller forces.

Also, road car dampers just have to work "well enough." Any sort of high-performance racing damper for a car or truck that's actually used in competition is getting rebuilt at least once a season. Hell, Koni would bring a semi truck to regional amateur SCCA autocross events and do damper rebuilds while you wait.
  • 2 1
 @MGould88: avalanche for the win!
  • 3 0
 @Balgaroth: have two manitou forks and haven't bought any proprietary tools. The only thing you need is either a deep socket cassette tool(Decathlon) or cut a slot in a normal one. Still easier then the chamferless sockets for fox stuff
  • 1 0
 @briain: what about the thin walled 10mm socket just to undo the lowers ? On my RS and Fox forks I can work with the tools I already have no problem. And the chamferless socket isn't a necessity, normal socket and attention works, otherwise a flat spanner will also do the job, all standard tools.
  • 5 0
 @Balgaroth: I've fully rebuilt the Dorado's and taken the lowers off the mezzers to adjust the travel never needed a thin walled socket or anything else proprietary. My fox 36 I couldn't get damper side off till I got the chamferless socket everything else was tearing up the head. My fox X2 needed so many proprietary tools plus a nitrogen charge I just sent it to the shop for a €140 service and the lockout still doesn't work. I actually largely agree with your point about proprietary tools just don't think manitou is the worst offender I'd point the finger at fox for that one
  • 2 0
 @Balgaroth: my Mattoc Pro only requires a thin wall 8mm socket and a flat 25mm one if I'm not mistaken. That they sell the tools doesn't mean they are proprietary.
My Fox 34 on the other hand officially requires two hugely overpriced tools to remove the lowers (different thread for air and damper side, because reasons). I'll take a Manitou fork or shock for a service before a Fox any day of the week. Fox isn't that bad, but the Manitou stuff is just easier.
  • 1 0
 Craig has the worst customer service skills in the world @rtiEDGE:
  • 2 0
 @briain: I used a chop saw on a standard socket to remove the chamfer. Works just fine
  • 2 0
 @bertimusmaximus: it's what I ended up doing but why the nut isn't 1mm taller really annoys me. My knipex pliers wasn't doing anything. Honestly seems like every part of the damper was way over torqued. My issue with fox is they charge top dollar and their build quality just doesn't justify the price. It just feels the price is paying for a hell of a lot of marketing
  • 1 0
 @freeridejerk888: Not disagreeing at all, as its not that great. With that in mind. I think its basically a one man band. Craig doing the work, talking to multiple customers, answering emails and calls. So l can understand why things are the way they are. I did talk to a lady a few times. She might of been a secretary, idk. I do wish they were more transparent on how long it actually takes to get the work done. Its not a quick process.
  • 1 0
 @freeridejerk888: read and understood that in advance, so I wrote everything I needed/wanted to via email. Never communicated with Craig, just “Wendy Rude”. Shock was back on my bike in the exact lead time I was quoted (10 weeks, in summer), and shock is amazing. 10/10 would buy again, and will prob get an Avy Bomber as a backup!
  • 1 0
 Lol 10 weeks Thats awful. He was a dick when I asked why is his stuff better and told me it just is. @rtiEDGE:
  • 1 0
 @freeridejerk888: ya, it is what it is. Luckily I didn’t need it done right away. Also, he didn’t have my shock for 10 weeks, less than a week. Glad I didn’t have any dealings with him, bc I get salty about the same stuff you do, with personalities, and will go out of my way to not patronize a*sholes. Haha. But my shock is really great!
  • 1 1
 @briain: you just grind down a regular socket on a belt sander, that’s pretty easy
  • 1 1
 @Balgaroth: again,
Belt sander, with socket on a spinning drill.
You can make that in 15 minutes, grab a 10mm socket from pawn shop and you’re good to go.
Stop whinging and go make stuff
  • 1 2
 @briain: goddamn knipex pliers on that, Jesus, don’t do that.
Just make or buy the proper tool.
It’s a $30 socket, to go with your $1000 fork, or $150 shite knipex pliers, surely you can dig deep and get the proper tools.
  • 4 0
 @onawalk: I've never seen knipex parallel pliers leave a mark on fork parts as long as the operator isn't a complete idiot. I've seen plenty of competent mechanics use them.

That said, I agree with @briain - for an extra 2 grams of material they could just allow you to use the socket / box end wrench / whatever that's already in your toolbox. Sure, you don't have to be a genius machinist to grind the chamfer off a socket, but requiring that tool in the first place is just stupid engineering.
  • 3 0
 @onawalk:
1. I've never heard anybody knowledgeable call Knipex pliers "shite"
2. If you paid $150, you were ripped off. I've paid 45. However...
3. You're absolutely right about using the right tools, especially on sensitive and expensive equipment like suspension.
  • 4 0
 @onawalk: em the knipex pliers are great never paid 150 for one maybe the full set of 3 costs that. If you see any of the world cup mechanics or Foxes World cup mechanics toolboxes they all seem to use them. But I did grind down the socket more annoyed I had to do it in the first place was actually my point make the nut a little taller and standard tools work fine
  • 1 0
 DVO is very nice on this. The jade DH was super easy to strip vs my dad's vivid air (which requires so many different proprietary tools)
  • 1 1
 @bkm303: in a world where people are looking for the lightest possible equipment so they can go a touch faster, well there you are.
Also think of it as a bit of a “gate keeper” keeps the apes out of the gubbins, worst case scenario they round the easily replaced top cap.
So, if you ever see someone with a rounded off top cap, take note, and stay away from their equipment

Stop asking for things to be easier, it’s your opportunity to learn and grow……and buy the proper tools
  • 1 2
 @Mac1987: I have no love for Knipex pliers, and they have garnered favour with mobile mechanics as they have special requirements that you and I in our garages don’t, namely an interest in saving weight, and space while the travel the globe with their tools. I think we forget, race mechanics, like racers, are under stress and constraints that we, or regular shop mechanics aren’t. Using them, or conversely racers to justify the use of a tool, or suspension setting, or tire pressure, or…..is pretty pointless.


In Canada, a 12” set, (which is what I priced, as I work and make a living with my tools) at KMS tools, was $142, with tax, a little over $160, 10” ones, were around $127 I think. Granted you can prolly get em on sale, but you can say the same about anything, and they weren’t when I priced them.

Knipex pliers are definitely not the right tool to use to take off the top cap of your expensive suspension products, and if you ever witness a shop mechanic using them as such, I suggest you remove your equipment from them.
  • 1 1
 @briain: Just because anyone World Cup mechanic has a set of pliers does not mean they are using them in the way you think they are. And much like a pro racers suspension settings, or tire pressures their use on the WC circuit doesn’t mean a whole lot.
Pro mechs are unders time, weight, and size constraints that you and I aren’t, couple that with the likely hood of top caps being as easy as sweets on Halloween to get from either Fox or RS, or the other 10 teams means they can, and likely do mar the hell out of them. Cause getting the bike working right for practice, and race is more important than if the corners are rounded.
Now if you paid your local shop to do it, and it came back rounded, you’d likely whinge so loud they we’d hear you here in Canada……

Do it compare what a pro mech has or does vs what you know you should be doing.
If you ground down your socket, and sorted that out, celebrate that, and tell all your friends, don’t complain that you were pushed to use your ingenuity and solve a problem, revel in that fact, that’s f*ckin cool!
  • 4 0
 @onawalk: you really do dislike the knipex pliers. Each to their own I like then never stripped a head with them. My main complaint was my fox 36 damper topcap is so shallow it couldn't grip it. But don't ask for things to be easier? Really. I couldn't disagree with you more on that. Fox stuff in Europe is actually as expensive as a lot of the boutique brands so it's priced similarly to EXT, Formula and intend. But it doesn't have any upside in my experience it doesn't work better than its much cheaper competition of rockshox or manitou. Parts are much more expensive a full service kit for a Dorado is cheaper than the fork seals for a 36 and requires specialist tools to maintain it all adds up to an extremely expensive lifecycle for their products. But if your a fan of their stuff that's great but it doesn't make sense to me buy someting that's expensive upfront and has much higher maintenance costs and doesn't actually offer anything in performance gains for the extra costs
  • 3 0
 @briain: for real, instead of "don't ask for things to be easier", it should be "don't make things hard without a good reason". It's basic common sense / lifecycle engineering principles.

@onawalk: So we should be thanking Fox (or whoever) for providing us with an "opportunity to learn and grow" by fabbing/buying an unnecessary specialized tool? That's definitely a hot take.... I guess we should all celebrate every time a new BB interface comes out too...

And what exactly am I supposed to be "learning" by grinding off a socket anyway? I'm not opposed to that sort of problem solving and DIYing if you're trying to restore a vintage bike with hard to source parts, or experimenting with a mix-and-match drivetrain, or something like that. But for a company to require that for a current high-end product, when it provides no benefit over a standard tool interface, is just stupid.
  • 1 1
 @briain: You’ve gotten it a little twisted, I’m not an advocate for Fox suspension, of the 5 full sus bikes hanging in the garage, one uses a DPS rear, one uses a Vanilla RC coil. Everything else is RS, and I tend to prefer the energetic nature of their stuff.
I dont think I made any purchasing suggestions outside of some specialized tools to service the expensive suspension products you own, and I still stand by that suggestion.

I have no use for Knipex pliers, they aren’t the right tool for the job in most cases, and dont provide the quick one handed ease of adjustment of slip joint pliers (which are really only the right tool in select circumstances)
So the added cost, and complexity does me no real good. If they work for you great, but clearly not the right tool for removing the top cap of your fork.
Not sure I understand the issue if you were able to sort out grinding down a socket to get it to work, should everyone make things that you can take apart with a hammer for ease of service?

Apologies for all the typos in the previous reply, Jeez I was all over the place.
  • 1 2
 @bkm303: I noted the good reason,
Quite simply to keep ham fisted clowns from getting into the internal gubbins. It’s also a real good indicating device to shop techs, and suspension techs that some ham fisted baboon with a dull hammer has tried to get into this, so beware, and take note.

Hot take for sure, These are challenges to be overcome with intelligence and ingenuity. Opportunity lies in what others feel is impossible or difficult, embrace the opportunity, stop asking for things to be easier.
I believe you, and everyone else has the ability, and brains to work through those situations. Then you get to celebrate the success of it all.
Or
Simply drop the bike off with the guys at the bike shop, and let them know what you need, easy easy.

If the tool was unnecessary, well you wouldn’t need it would you, seems like the tool is necessary to be able to get the job done correctly.

I’m not sure I understand your or @briain compliant. You both seemed to solve the problem you were faced with……Or is it that you didn’t actually solve the problem, f*cked up the top cap being ham fisted, and only both said you were aware of grinding down a socket after someone else mentioned it to you?
  • 3 1
 @onawalk: this seems to be going in circles but to be clear. I did solve my problem by cutting down a socket. My issue is that it was a problem I shouldn't have to solve and added complication on Foxes part for no added benefit. Companies using non standard parts and tools without any reason other then to make it difficult to fix your own stuff are companies that should be avoided at all costs. I've also been pretty unimpressed with the quality of my fox shock and fork in terms of use and build quality. So it's more expensive to purchase, doesn't work aswell as other brands and is harder/ more expensive to service.
  • 2 1
 @onawalk: so again, the "good reason" is to just make it harder for owners to service the fork they bought, or access basic tuning features (volume spacers). Still don't see why that's a good thing for anyone but I guess we'll have to disagree on that.

Also, if that's the design intent then IMO they failed completely. The cap isn't recessed, so it doesn't keep the "clowns" out. And it fails as a telltale bc a marred top cap tells me basically nothing about the fork... for all I know a pristine top cap means it hasn't been serviced for 1000 hours.

I solved the problem. But the only reason the problem existed is bc someone wanted to make my job harder or make money selling aftermarket sockets or something, which is not something to celebrate IMO.
  • 1 0
 @briain: what’s a “standard” part?
Who knows what you have in your tool box, again are companies meant to make everything removable with a hammer so you have less to complain about?
I just don’t understand the complaints regarding something that was easily remedied, it would have taken 5 mins to solve the problem, that’s pretty easy. Top cap on RS stuff requires a cassette tool, fairly specialized tool outside of cycling, is that a concern as well?

Again, your satisfaction with the Fox suspension was never the question.
It’s a more expensive product in Europe due to taxes, or levies, or import duties etc, not because it’s a better made product.
  • 2 0
 @bkm303: sure let’s disagree,
What about the cassette tool required for a RS top cap?

Do you honestly believe that “big fork” is out there hoping and praying that they can make some extra money on selling you a socket? I don’t understand how you can walk around in your daily life thinking the whole world is out to get you like that.
Upper management at these companies are sitting around a table sleeving ways to get an extra $30 out of you, while selling you a branded and anodized socket, just raking in the money. Wild
  • 1 0
 @onawalk: No, I don't really think "big fork" is trying to rake in the $$ selling sockets, that was tongue in cheek.

The cassette tool thing a a great example actually, I think that was a great choice:

(1) it's a preexisting, multi-purpose tool that most DIY bike mechanics already have, and can be purchased at every bike shop (and even at Walmart) with no hacking / grinding / modding needed. And it serves multiple purposes on bikes (internal BBs, lockrings, now top caps too), whereas my 27mm thin-lipped chamferless suntour socket is good for exactly one thing. Fox alone uses 3 different chamferless socket sizes depending on the fork/damper. It's silly.

(2) it does a better job of "clown-proofing", if that's what the mfr is after (can't use knipex pliers / channel locks on a lockring interface)

(3) nobody is going accidentally stick a standard socket on it and round off the corners because it's blatantly obvious that it's not a hex head.

IMO "let's make it look pretty much like a standard tool interface, but also make it so you can damage it with a standard tool, so we can see if someone tried to use a standard tool" is still a dumb reason IMO. And even if that is the design intent, I'd argue it's executed much better (and in a way less likely to result in damage to the fork) on the RS lockring tool interface.
  • 1 0
 @onawalk: We're gonna have to agree to disagree cause we are really just flogging a dead donkey with this back and forth but anyway.
A standard tool to be is something I can go down to a hardware store and buy there not modify with a belt grinder as @bkm303 points out a tool with single use is a pain in the arse. I actually agree with you that fox are making their products harder to self repair which is something I'm philosophically against. As far as Foxes pricing is Europe goes it isn't just taxes cause rockshox or manitou pricing isn't comparable. So if I'm paying Mercedes money I want Mercedes quality not Ford quality. Just to preempt your next question why did I buy fox suspension I didn't it came on the bike and honestly next time I'll avoid the fox equipped model
  • 1 0
 @briain: don’t get me started on Mercedes quality….
Here’s where we prolly differ,
To me a standard, doesn’t mean that’s what everyone now uses (like the great hub debate) a standard is that everyone manufacturing that piece is doing it to the same dimensions.
So everyone making a 32mm socket, is actually making a socket that is 32mm, not 32.5, or 31.8, but 32.
I look at all tools as being specialized tools, I work with them every day, it’s how I provide for my family, so I invest in the proper tools to do the job.
An adjustable tool, is rarely the right tool for the job, it’s just the right enough tool for the job right now. I guess my hope is that you and @bkm303 celebrate the work that you accomplished, rather than complaining about something being difficult.. do you see how doing one, could put a whole different spin on things.

I think it’s f*ckin rad that you guys sorted out a solution, and it worked for you, f*ckin mint, that’s way cool!
If you guys don’t celebrate that, who will?
  • 96 1
 Bedazzled knobs
  • 1 0
 Sign me up!
  • 17 0
 Only if it says "Affliction" or "Ed Hardy" on the side
  • 34 0
 tried this. painful, couldn't really use it for a couple months. wouldn't recommend
  • 3 0
 Don't forget about the tribal Stikrd kit around the chainstay.
  • 20 0
 That was my high school band’s name.
  • 8 0
 @rideordont I'm so relieved you have an American, not British flag next to your name when posting this. Otherwise I'd have concerns.
  • 8 0
 @enduroelite: I get the vibe that this was lost on a lot of folks.
  • 2 0
 I'm shocked by this!
  • 3 3
 Sorry. Cannondale had it right. Separate the damper from the spring. You can then have separate leverage ratios for the spring and damper so you can design the perfect rate for each. Not the current compromise of damper and spring on same ratio. More freedom for the suspension designers to perfect.
  • 1 0
 @derekbnorakim: def affliction
  • 2 0
 @ratedgg13: don't worry about the bedazzled knobs, as long as the hygiene is there.
  • 1 0
 @goldmund: I have friction concerns.
  • 1 0
 @ratedgg13: of course, nothing worse than a jagged bedazzled knob.
  • 1 0
 Just keep them away from the shaft.
  • 1 0
 @derekbnorakim: Maybe a Tiger King/Ed Hardy version with an acid-wash, blown-out denim protective wrap.
  • 1 0
 @enduroelite: well played
  • 1 0
 @fabwizard: I don’t think even Cannondale agreed with you on this one. Their latest version of Gemini lasted a partial season, and the new Jekyl arrived with what is essentially a HP Horst link rear suspension.
Great in theory, but I don’t think it offers any substantial advantage over a traditional spring/damper.

Their Ocho fork however, jeez, that doesn’t get near enough credit for what it is.
  • 93 2
 A Fox X2 that doesn't need to constantly be rebuilt
  • 1 0
 I was just wondering if coil shocks are more reliable?
  • 21 0
 @pakleni: I snapped my dhx2 as well. Think it’s just a fox thing
  • 6 1
 So double barrel?
  • 19 1
 @mahonlamont: No, this is a frame manufacturer/poor design thing with a yoke extender. Suspension folks tell the manufacturers not to do it based on simple engineering analysis. Frame manufacturers do it anyways because it makes frame design easier and cheaper.
  • 7 0
 @pakleni: They do require less maintenance before they go poop, less sensitive to temperature change. I ride in -20C to +30C. air shocks shit the bed at low temps
  • 1 0
 @pakleni: sometimes yes, they have simpler architecture and can be made more reliable and also are easier to service.
  • 44 1
 Fox X2's are like Schrodinger's shock; can be both brand new and completely broken simultaneously until observed.
  • 3 0
 @nickfranko have to agree. When fresh and tuned, very difficult to beat a Float X2. Only thing I found close is Ohlins
  • 7 0
 A fox X2 that doesn’t require expensive proprietary tools to fix. It’s actually quite ridiculous you can’t do it yourself.
  • 2 0
 I have a new Float X2 on my spire. It’s been great. Just started seeing all this chatter about issues. What am I missing?
  • 6 0
 @BiNARYBiKE: it’s common for the damping performance to go down after you hear a “sloshing “ sound when the shock moves, like air mixed with oil in a syringe (kind of what’s happening anyway). My X2 has had that problem twice now, way before the service interval. I love my X2, it’s great, but it doesn’t last as long as it should before needing service. IMHO, keep track of your hours used, and send it in early for service, and in the meantime, get a spare shock (I picked up a Float X) as a backup to keep around when sending it in.
  • 1 0
 @BiNARYBiKE: They like to mix the oil and air, and it makes a squishing sound when the two do mix. I don't even ride that much and it's happened to me twice. The shock is currently on a shelf because I'm annoyed at it for how quickly it occurred, but I don't yet want to sell it.
  • 6 0
 @BiNARYBiKE: there are a bunch of Alloy Spires that have misaligned shock mounts in the front triangle. It's a know issue that has been acknowledged by Transition. The Trunnion mount is super sensitive to misaligned mounts and will kill your shock very quickly, especially the X2. Transition has warranted alot of frames recently because of this and they have just recently completed a full inventory or their replacement frame stock to ensure this is not a problem going forward. I know because I recently received a brand new replacement frame due to the problem.
  • 5 2
 @winko: my CaneCreek DB lasted two runs before spewing po out all over the place. The cost to rebuild was greater than its used sale price.
  • 1 0
 @kwdog: you can do it yourself pretty affordably actually, I do. There's a guy on eBay from Nebraska that I bought $90 worth of tools from and can do all the stuff I need.
  • 3 0
 @tcmtnbikr: This was on a bike with standard mounting hardware, no yoke extender or trunnion. The actual internals of the shock failed and caused side loading on the shaft. Also they took 2 months to warranty…
  • 1 0
 @BiNARYBiKE: give it 3 months and it will be back for a warranty full rebuild.
  • 1 0
 @tcmtnbikr: shock shafts thin like on coil double barrel are a joke at 3+ in of stroke, it's bound to bend and it's unnecessary to be so thin, just make the piggy bigger.
  • 2 0
 Sooo.. can we make a list of most reliable shocks money can buy?
  • 1 0
 This right here. The last time after only a few rides it has air in the damper. When it works it's great but while we're at it I would take a little lighter low speed compression damping as well but compared to the other shocks I've tried it just feels under control in the chunk.
  • 1 0
 @BiNARYBiKE: witty!
  • 3 0
 Rockshock super deluxe coil
Dvo jade
Everything
Doublebarre
X2 @pakleni:
  • 3 0
 @pakleni: __________ is more reliable than an X2. Fill in the blank with whatever you please.
  • 1 0
 @rallyimprezive: Interesting, I've had mine for long time, rebuild every 2 years, sold it to a friend who still rides it today, 2014 db air cs. Probably most reliable shock I've ever had!
  • 1 0
 @winko: It was apparently a known issue that really only effected the 267x89mm shock due to the larger overall length, stroke and subsequently increased wear on the shaft seals.
  • 62 2
 Here is my argument why the Rockshox Super Deluxe Ultimate air and coil are the best shocks on the market for non sponsored racers period. Here are the reasons

1. The shocks perform well and are extremely tunable but what sets it appart is how easy it is to fully service (damper included) and tune with the rockshox tune kit at home with a few affordable tools and a few handy person skills.

2. Rockshox publish all of their standard shock tunes and sell a set of compression and rebound shims to achieve all the possible tunes for a super affordable price.

www.sram.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/tuning-manuals/rockshox-rear-shock-piston-tuning-guide.pdf

3. Because you can rebuild these shocks at home your service interval can be whatever you want. I guarantee a fully serviced Rockshox ultimate is going to out perform any other shock that has been smashed for 100 hours since its last rebuild.

4. By reducing you service intervals your shock is going to potentially last a lot longer.

My 2 cents
  • 9 1
 All of this assumes you can actually get the parts to do the service. I have a super deluxe ultimate on my '21 Hightower that has yet to have a service because every time I inquire about parts for a rebuild they are still back ordered. Last time I went to my LBS to check they said, "Maybe November."

At this point my dream shock is one I can get parts for.
  • 2 1
 I also liked my super deluxe ultimate coil climb switch from my last bike much better vs my Fox factory DHX2 sorta climb switch. Maybe it's personal preference, but if you're going to have a climb switch... make it actually do something FFS!
  • 2 0
 @SoCalTrev: getting parts is a real sh*t at the moment. The shim kits I referred to are out of stock everywhere. As for the standard service kits, they can be in short supply too. I just pick them up when they become available.
  • 4 0
 @islandforlife: I swear my X2's climb switch is just a placebo, even after service, and this is the 2021 model that supposedly has a stiffer climb switch circuit. SD Coil on the other hand, clear as day.
  • 12 0
 I love my RockShox components, but can we all agree the new naming scheme is ridiculous? "Super Deluxe Ultimate" is like three synonyms in a row...
  • 3 1
 Super cool stuff, you can accomplish the same with fox though.
  • 2 1
 My impression was the Rockshox suspension stuff incorporated a lot of non-hard anodized and plastic parts, making them more of a disposable item. Has that changed? Not much of an issue for the WC and EWS crowd I guess. No point in rebuilding a worn out shock at home.
  • 1 0
 @Neechy: You can never have enough superlatives!
  • 2 0
 @IMeasureStuff: if you feel like dabbling in the fox world they have stuff in stock right now. I've been ordering tune kits and seals for the X2 and float X throughout the past 6 months no problem.
Also all of their engineering drawings/exploded views for their shocks are awesome, the service manuals are great and they seem a lot more knowledgeable and willing to help a dude tinkering with shocks in his garage than rockshox has been for me at least.
  • 37 0
 LSC, HSC, Rebound (don't need High/Low adjustment), a platform lever and easy to bleed the damper when it comes time to maintain.
  • 32 3
 On the contrary- When you are deep in the travel, your spring forces are high and with each pressure/volume adjustment or spring change this force deep in the travel can vary wildly, making high speed rebound adjustment super important to have control when things get super rough. Definitely so when you are smashing that bottom out bumper. Low speed rebound is necessary for obvious reasons as well. I would take HSR over HSC any day,
  • 6 0
 @bicyclelifestyle: shut up nerd (jk)

@therealmancub idk if the one little red knob on my shock is high or low speed but it seems fine lol. My ideal shock probably has like 2 knobs (or 1 and a switch), a good base tune, and a low cost.
  • 7 1
 Thats nice if you weigh between 160-180 pounds. If you're outside that range you need the HSR and HSC.

The exception also happens to be my favorite shock of all time, head and shoulders above anything else I've ridden, the EXT Storia ( and probably Arma), which doesn't have HSR, but it doesn't need it because IT WAS TUNED TO MY FRAME KINEMATICS AND BODY WIEGHT by a professional (Shoutout to Suspension Syndicate). I'm 200 pounds nekked, and M/M tune shocks don't work for me. I either have to run too much LSC or wallow in g-outs & turns. If I only have LSR, the rear end feels bucky after big hits (made worse because I have to over-spring to help fight wallow).

This is why I love Can Creek- yes its hard to tune, but I can get closer to a factory tune made for my body weight. I also think they have the best climb switch in the business.
  • 2 0
 @therealmancub: While keeping +- clicks to a minimum; 18 clicks is way overboard .
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: Agreed on tuning - at 200lbs also, I find HSC and HSR adjustments crucial to tune out the incidental effects of the higher spring rate required for my weight/riding style.
  • 5 0
 @hamncheez: 200lbs your more like meatnpotatos than hamncheez!

How would you say that CC works for a 150 rider? was just looking at their shocks yesterday
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: concurred. I notice it on forks more than shocks, but air suspension with LS-only adjustment tends to be pretty harsh for me (135lbs) in chatter and square edged hits. I run a CC DBAir with two rows of volume spacer things and the HSC and HSR almost all the way open. It's the cat's pajamas.
  • 5 0
 @likeittacky: So I got my nickname from when I ate a ham n cheese sandwich that I left out too long then went to college wrestling practice and showed everyone what I ate all over the mats. While I'm 200 lbs, I'd like to think I'm pretty lean for a dad in his late 30s with a desk job.
  • 2 1
 @bicyclelifestyle: I agree. In my mind high speed rebound is more important than high speed compression. Air springs are so good these days that the high speed damping is less critical, but I can feel a massive difference across a single click of high speed rebound on my fork and shock
  • 1 0
 @bicyclelifestyle: I was looking to see if anyone would say this. I couldnt care less about HSC and LSC - I've ridden every single shock ive ever owned fully open in LSC (and HSC where applicable) but i would love to have the ability to change both high and low speed rebound. Im super excited to try rockshox's new progressive rebound damper.
  • 1 0
 @ihertzler: Sounds like less air with added volume tokens, thus increasing compression settings is what you maybe should experiment with. If your rebound is too fast with compression fully open, it warrants said adjustments and to deviate from scheduled air pressure. This should render off the top suppleness with small bump sensitivity, mid stroke support, bottom out resistance and rebound / compression in a more neutral state for optimum performance.
  • 1 1
 Yes you do lmao
  • 1 0
 @likeittacky: my problem is i like compression super soft, rebound super fast (on tech) and rebound slower (on jumps). And I don't want to change rebound settings based on the trail I'm currently doing. So the progressive rebound damper sounds like it solves that problem - less damping with lower shaft speed, i.e. tech, and more damping with higher shaft speed, i.e. jumps.
  • 1 0
 That's somewhat an unusual preference; what shock do you run and its sag set at?? Maybe your past time for a damper service, new fluids,seals etc...could help... I'd really recommend tinkering with air tokens, combined with air pressure/rebound/compression to find the best medium ground or crack open the piggy bank and get a coil shock with all the bells n whistles. I'm always adjusting my forx's compression on trail 3-7 clicks but never really feel the need to fiddle with the rear unless its park jumps + rebound is set and forget 99.99% of time is those situations.We all want our trail bikes to be DH bikes when its gravity time but reality doesn't help with that!
  • 1 0
 @likeittacky: Currently I have the (now) old super deluxe ultimate. LSC all the way off, LSR at 4-5 clicks from full open, sag around 32%. I very much dislike standing up to pedal so I like my shit as comfy as possible. I keep up with my suspension service, not at 50 hours, but I just opened it up for some new seal grease a couple months ago. Currently my bike is a propain tyee, so pretty progressive and as such I've removed all the volume spacers. I like to use all my travel all the time. I'm not hucking to flat so harsh bottom outs is not an issue.
  • 1 0
 @ihertzler: Try a coil on that bike; perhaps that's the solution you need. Nice bike BTW!
  • 34 0
 My dream shock has an infinite service life with no maintenance required. Unlike my current shocks that I treat as such anyways.
  • 26 2
 my dream shock has some color options so i can match my fork alright? you hear me rockshox??! SLAB GREY SUPER DELUXE ULTIMATE?!?!! DO IT
  • 3 1
 That would be sick.
  • 19 0
 I want a chamber full of microscopic magical gnomes who can predict the future and apply the exact amount of force needed at any given time
  • 1 0
 ^ This guy gets it.
  • 16 0
 I would love a shock that has a totally custom tune so you could remove the knobs altogether. Or maybe the knobs have a couple clicks one way or the other and that's it. I'd prefer quality damping over range. This is unrealistic commercially, of course.
  • 5 1
 Here you go www.rideformula.com/products/mtb-shocks/mod

DVO is also really easy to custom shim, and they answer the phone! Just don't email them haha.
  • 20 0
 K.I.S.S.
  • 6 0
 So buy RS than
  • 4 5
 @likeittacky: you mean DVO
  • 10 1
 did someone say "hardtail"?
  • 1 0
 @CarbonShmarbon: Beautiful they are but not as reliable from what if been informed; or i'd have one one my last bike.
  • 1 0
 @nullzwo: Rigid fixie
  • 2 0
 Dvo 3 years ago. Now everything breaks when you look at it @ratedgg13:
  • 14 0
 1. Longer maintenance intervals. Paying $300 and waiting days without your bike every 100 hours for a shock or fork service is ridiculous. Car suspension lasts 10 years +. Surely we can do better with bike shocks.
2. Simpler maintenance with self service tool kits. Rock shox are reasonably easy to service but it could be even easier if they were designed for it.
3. For high end shocks, the next big thing should be built in telemetry and a corresponding app that gives you tuning recommendations based on real data from your local trails.
  • 7 0
 There are frequent service intervals for automotive off road suspension (eg. every 500 or 1000miles) also
  • 1 0
 @Strath-cona: you mean like fox automotive offroad suspension? Smile
  • 2 1
 @likeittacky: I use the ShockWiz and it’s been extremely helpful in getting my settings on the right track.
  • 14 2
 How many riders ACTUALLY know what HSC/LSC/HSR/LSR actually do?
How many riders ACTUALLY know that HIGH SPEED and LOW SPEED is not the rate of speed they ride at and actually the velocity the shock is travelling in it's stroke.
Just asking the general masses and their thoughts.

I've met many riders with 4 knob shock adjustments that had no idea what the adjustments do - they bought it because it was already spec'd on their bike or because it was the most expensive and shiny new thing.
  • 11 1
 Pinkbike should put up a multiple choice quiz on all that stuff. That would be awesome.
  • 1 11
flag Saidrick (Aug 19, 2022 at 20:59) (Below Threshold)
 How do you ride fast without having the shock / fork shaft velocity also not going at a high rate of speed?

To me, there’s a direct correlation between bike speed on trails and shock shaft speed.

Do you mean frequency, which is not quite the same as shaft speed.
  • 9 1
 @Saidrick: they’re still independent. If you were traveling at a high speed down a smooth trail and hit a smooth jump transition, your suspension would compress more slowly up the transition than if you hit a 6” tall square edge (like a curb) at the same forward velocity. Other similar factors include g-outs, body weight, compression under shifting vs. brake bumps, rock gardens, flat landings, etc. Even bike speed considered, the suspension compresses at different rates depending on why it’s compressing. Hence the different adjustments for high end suspension. “High speed” and “low speed” adjustments have nothing to do with how fast you’re riding your bike.
  • 2 1
 Well you’d be right about compression tuning, rebound not so much.
  • 2 0
 Lol rebound on HSR and LSR have nothing to do with compression speed. It’s governed by how deep in its travel the shock/fork is.
  • 9 0
 My wish is that mountain bike shock manufacturers would provide customers with shock dyno figures so riders can actually become educated on what really works. It seems ridiculous that as a whole we just have to accept whatever secret squirrel sauce damping concoction that they give us.
  • 4 1
 No, that ruins the fun for us suspension guys. We love to dyno the shit out of those dampers to find out exactly that!

Jokes aside, you are right. But we live in a sport that basically is 99% marketing plus 1% engineering.
Most manufacturers would only provide you with photoshopped marketing graphes anyway.
Trust me, I have seen those more often than I care to remember.

Also, there is a lot of stuff you can hide in dyno runs if you know what you are doing.
So even if manufacturers were to give you some kind of dyno charts... ...I would still retest everything.
  • 2 0
 @Helmchentuned: Do you have those dyno graphs published somewhere?
  • 2 1
 @c-radicallis: Certainly not.
  • 3 0
 Manitou does, to be fair
  • 9 0
 10 different individual shocks perfectly tuned for me to accommodate all styles of riding I may encounter. No adjustments on any of them. I get anxiety thinking about what knobs to turn.
  • 7 0
 I was about to vote but then remembered that I descended a whole trail yesterday with the climb switch on and didn't realize until it was over. First FS bike so maybe it's expected after riding ht's forever? It proves that I'm not qualified to talk about rear shocks at all...
  • 3 0
 Thanks for posting this. I thought it was just me. Not even my first FS though.
  • 7 0
 As a Hardtail owner, I shouldnae care or answer the poll. But when my body says enough is enough, I'll probably go for an Intend shock.... I hope that day is far, far away though!
  • 3 0
 Yeah, you'll need the time to save up! Wink
  • 2 0
 @Tambo: that too, lol!!!
  • 9 1
 Obviously a dream shock would be one with no adjustments at all; everything is controlled instantaneously based on conditions. I.e. livevalve/flight attendant on steroids.
  • 4 0
 The dream version of that dream shock is where some impossibly clever internal valving means the shock auto adjusts itself in real time mechanically without the need for any electronics!
  • 3 0
 Electromagnetic springs/dampers with small, individually self-tuning rotational dampers in place of cartridge bearing pivots.
  • 10 0
 Shocks are cool, but whats up Friday Fails...?
  • 2 0
 dam just realised i havent got my weekly dosage? Pink bike going under?
  • 7 0
 @Acid11: nah, YouTube is grumpy about Friday Fails so we're working with them to sort it out. You'll get a mega dose of FF once we do.
  • 6 0
 Seems like no one wants electronic shocks. Not sure why Fox Sram keep pushing them except for those few riders who want to drop serious coin.
  • 4 0
 the previous super deluxe ultimate series in air and coil were awesome, 2022 and before(not the new 2023)
the Air shock had the ability to run the megneg so a heavier Rider could get coil like small bump while having coil mid stroke but air shock ramp at the end.

one of my bikes has both the new 2023 Lyrik and 2023 SDU, Bit early to really get a "i love longtime" but they are good.

i think If a shock was 90% as good as the top stuff but a PB armchair engineer from the comments can rebuild it in 30mins, thats a winner.
  • 8 0
 Literally anything but a Fox X2. For the love of god.
  • 6 2
 I'm a set it and forget it guy, but I do spend a lot of time setting up my suspension well. If I had access to custom shims during testing days with the manufacturer, I'd be happy with only LSR to account for ambient temperature changes. However, since I'm not a sponsored pro rider, I'll take all the LSC/LSR/HSC/HSR I can get so that I can tune my bike to feel how I want on my own. It's too time consuming and expensive to ship the shock to a service center to get a revalve dozens of times to hone in on the correct tune. Even if I had a manufacturer hand me a shock and promise that it would be perfect for my weight/bike/riding style, it wouldn't give me near the confidence of setting it up myself. I'd be interested to try that Formula shock with the swappable valves.

Other things the shock should have:

Non-trunnion, non-yoke, spherical bearings to prevent binding.

Air spring with a linear spring curve like a coil for easier tuning and lighter weight. (larger positive and negative volumes) This helps mid-stroke support without hurting small bump compliance.

Hydraulic bottom-out to prevent bottoming without returning too much energy. This might simplify the HSR valve.

Large damper oil volume and cooling fins to prevent fade on 20+ minute fast and rough descents.

Lockout lever on the shock body for the road. The bike to match would pedal well enough to not need a climb switch for anything but smooth tarmac.

Mid-valve or some alternative to improve flashing and cavitation prevention.

Thru-shaft, high end seals, kashima, and all the other friction reducing goodies to reduce friction and hysteresis.

Matching fork and shock descend modes. I'd like to see front and rear suspension have 3 position downhill damper switches to select between flow/jump trails, chunky teck, and a do-it-all mode in between. Some current products have this, but I don't think I've seen a fork/shock pairing that retains the dynamic bike balance while using alternate settings.

All the above features already exist on various products, but I'm not aware of any single product that checks all those boxes. This one below may never exist for MTB.

True semi-active suspension. This exists in other applications, but not in MTB. Live valve and flight attendant aren't it. I suspect that power requirements (big batteries) would be the most limiting factor, so maybe we'll see it in E-bikes in the next decade.
  • 7 0
 Not having LSC adjustment on entry level rockshox is a god damn crime
  • 6 2
 Internal adjustments only with data acquisition built in. $30 monthly subscription to even use the rear shock. $50 a Month for date feedback, $500 a month for 10 min Facetime with jordi after each ride.
  • 3 0
 Adjustments are cool, but valving is everything. Doesn't matter what knobs are available if the valving is off.

My wish list is coil + HABS + custom shim stack set up by a competent tuner (lots of HSC + LSC with enough port volume to avoid spiking, medium-slow rebound). Why? Reliability, predictability, and preferred feel. EXT Arma satisfies those criteria, just need to take the plunge and buy one for myself.
  • 7 0
 A banana
  • 3 0
 coil or air?
  • 5 0
 Someone who can show me what properly set up suspension feels like. Until you know that the adjusters are pointless
  • 5 0
 This is so true. All the knobs mean nothing when you're a knob yourself. That's me.
  • 1 0
 @likeittacky: I have one thanks
  • 4 0
 Some sort of factory provided springdex like function That can adjust a coil spring to account for burritos eaten, hangover dehydration, weight fluctuations.
  • 2 0
 Knowbs with visual reference of settings, adjustable by hand, and fewer clicks (~8 in the sweet spot should do) could make life easier for most riders. Having options to find the right setting is cool, needing tools and taking notes for each change sucks.

Good suggested base settings by the manufacturer are great, adding additional base settings for different riding styles could help a lot to understand how things interact for different weight ranges.
  • 2 0
 I bought my dream shock last winter. Cane creek kitsuma coil with progressive spring. Took a little to dial it in but it's the best shock I've ever owned and I've had a fox X2, DHX2, Float CTD and a rock shox super deluxe air. Nothing feels better than a coil IMO and I can't bottom it out with the progressive spring. Commencal Meta 29-29 and mullet I run
  • 3 1
 As a heavier rider (230lbs) I find ALL the Fox air shocks to be insufficient (especially X2). You can get it to work semi-ok on either end of the spectrum but not both. 11-6 was a HUGE upgrade and let my suspension work the way it was designed to. I have small bump, mid stroke support and huge bottom out control. I had similar results from an EXT Storia but prefer the 11-6 for the spherical bearing and less noise.

I will say Ive had much better luck getting an RS Super Deluxe Ultimate Dialed as well as Mara Pro, but no where near the same wheel tracking of the Coil n Oil properly setup.

Not to mention you dont need to service the can every 50 hours to keep it feeling butter. I've seen many people who get a coil second hand and dont bother to get the spring rate dialed or even bother to figure out what tune they have, then complain.
  • 2 0
 Maybe I overlooked it in the article, but I think there is a key point missing. These are relatively simple dampers, but they have a custom tune, I'm sure. I have examples of both on my bike. A fox 36 with a simple grip damper which happens to work great for my weight and riding style. On the rear I have a Cane Creek DB IL because I didn't like the stock tune on my float and don't have a team of engineers to tune shim stacks to my liking. Rear shock tune is dependent on rider and the frame suspension kinematics. 4 way adjustable shocks give the end user some chance to get the tune right without swapping shim stacks.
  • 4 0
 I want at least 13 different knobs, but I want them all to be crammed into the frame so I can't reach them.
  • 4 0
 I'd like all of those features along with an adult to properly set them up for me.
  • 3 0
 @seb-stott i dare you to add a pole 1-10 reliability vs performance. I want to know what peoples appetite is for premium performance at the cost of reduced reliability.
  • 7 1
 uncircumcised
  • 5 4
 Those voting for high speed rebound have probably never ridden a custom tuned shock...high speed rebound is determined by the spring rate and doesn't need to be adjustable if the shock is tuned for you. Dream shock would be a perfect tune with zero adjustment. Better shock would be active electronic damping. Best shock would be full active suspension like that BOSE produced for vehicles.
  • 4 1
 That's a total BS. This works for cars, but not for bikes. There is a theory about setting damping according to a zeta or whatever coefficient but it's really a compromise. On the bike you have a much different ratio of sprung to unsprung mass and most of the sprung mass moves. In the end you can get away with much less rebound damping, mostly because your legs are the best spring damper combo. So the rebound is the most important knob on any damper. And in most monotube damper rebound also influences compression.
  • 1 1
 @lkubica: the low speed rebound is...high speed is determined by spring rate...if your shock is custom tuned for your weight and bike there is no need to ever fiddle with high speed rebound. Maybe it comes in handy on FOX shocks because they have to fit a large weight range and bikes but the reason high end custom tuned shocks like 11.6, EXT, FAST etc don't have high speed rebound is simply because it is not a control that needs to be adjusted once the shock is tuned for the rider. High speed rebound is mostly related to spring force, particular later in the shocks stroke where the spring force is high...once tuned for rider weight and known spring force that is all that matters....different trail features or riding styles are not relevant to hsr. Yes low speed rebound is more important than compression.
  • 2 0
 @Danzzz88: HSR in monotube damper is quite unlikely and hard to do. Also, bacause most HSR settings is just a litle cheating. LSR and LSC are typically controlled by an orifice and thus are easily adjustable via a needle. HS is another story, it goes through a shimstack and shimstacks are not easily externally adjustable. So what you do is to add a kind of preloaded valve which opens and then oil goes through HS shimstack. So basically you never control the HS compressions/rebound directly (with knobs), you only control the point up to which all goes through the LS .. Now of course you tune the HS stacks up to your liking, but it's not like that you give someone the spring rate and suspension curve and they will tune your suspension, otherwise those DH teams would never need telemetry. You need telemetry exactly because it is impossible to accurately tune suspension just given some static data. And regarding the rebound, watch this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yUdJAuUOr4 which shows nicely, that LS knobs also have a lot of influence on the curve in general.
  • 2 2
 @lkubica: I didn't click the video but I'm guessing it is the Vorsprung one...yes I know lsr has a big affect, it effectively moves the whole curve and as you say hsr is a shim stack and not properly adjustable only cheated as you say on FOX shocks. But telemetry is used for many things including compression, also different spring rates are used depending on the track in the case of pro riders, but for everyone else most people I'm the case of a coil shock find a coil rate that suits them and stay with that. Generally hsr should not need changing for 2 reasons. The first reason is as I say before it is related to spring rate. The second reason is that spring rate actually should not really need to be changed, it is a function of frequency so the optimum spring rate should be decided on that. The problem arises because most do not set their suspension based on the correct frequency...the average guy and from bad advice even from manufa turers is to tune from sag...which really is incorrect. In an ideal world for optimum performance you would be on the same spring rate regardless of the bikes travel...the travel increase should only be used for harder faster riding and big hits etc...however as we know almost no ody follows this method...most choose a long travel bike and set it softer than a short travel bike so they have more comfort and they feel the bike is more capable. But as I say in terms of optimum performance suspension should not be tuned like this...your long travel bike should not feel any pusher than a short travel bike until you start hitting the progressive part of the linkage or bottom out bumper and travel should be determined by rider aggression and terrain. But as I say we know 99% of people font tune this way...they will be a longer travel and tune slightly softer so they gain some comfort and also still have a bit more bottom out resistance but even though this is not necessarily a bad thing and is most popular it is in fact not the correct way if talking about optimal performance and race times. FOX, Rockshox, magazines and many others are to blame for promoting sag percentage as the way to tune suspension...this is not the optimal way.
  • 1 0
 Well yeah that's the rub here isn't it? Sponsored pros that get a selection of custom-tuned dampers made just for them wouldn't need too many adjustments. To be fair, my stock Fox Performance shock has been fine for me for a few years with just some volume spacers, except for the IFP snapping in half lol
  • 1 0
 I think the electronic shocks are going to help more simple shocks like the Float X perform better. In theory you could run it fully optimized for DH with maybe less LSC or more sag and rely on the electronic lockout to help with pedaling platform even during downhills.
  • 2 1
 Air: new Rockshox Super Deluxe Ultimate with HBO

Why? Because vs the Float X2, it is silent, and doesn’t have too many adjustments, and each click makes a noticeable difference.

Coil: new Rockshox Super Deluxe Ultimate Coil with HBO and an MRP progressive spring

Why? Because vs the Bomber CR it had lockout, and vs the DHX2, it doesn’t have too many adjustments, and on RS suspension the differences between clicks are more noticeable.
  • 1 0
 My dream shock would be invisible on the bike, and would forward and downward cameras with computerized range calculation, surface detection, real-time compression and rebound adjustments, and gyroscopic technology to help place wheels squarely under you as the bike nears the ground when you huck it.
  • 1 0
 My dream shock would be invisible on the bike, and would have forward and downward cameras with computerized range calculation, surface detection, real-time compression and rebound adjustments, and gyroscopic technology to help place wheels squarely under you as the bike nears the ground when you huck it.
  • 2 1
 I just picked up an EXT Storia V3 Loc and I have to say it’s good but not $500 more than my Float X good. That said, I still prefer it over the float x.

Things that would make me happier with the EXT:

Lower Cost
Quieter
Lighter
The ability to make it a touch more progressive


Lighter
  • 5 0
 It is the lightest coil on the market, not really sure what more you could want in that regard.
  • 1 0
 Could have looked at a tech sheet first before buying. The you wouldn‘t have been surprised by the weight
  • 1 0
 EXT Storia V3 dampers are too large to accept progressive coil such as Cane Creek, MRP, & DVO. However, the Sprindex coils are supposed to be slightly progressive and will fit. A different link (e.g. Cascade Components) might help if one exists for your frame.

My 165mm frame has 27.5% progression and a regular coil works fine. However, my 140mm frame only has 13% progression, but w/ the CC link went up to 145mm travel and 20% progression rate. I still needed a little help to re-gain that pop I had with the DPX2 and so a Cane Creek progressive VALT fills the gap, mated to my 11.6. That and the HBO on this new version of the shock too rounds out that aspect I was looking for.

The Storia V3 and the latest PUSH 11.6 >> Fox DHX2, Float X2, DPS, DPX2, RS Monarch, Manitou Mastodon for my bikes, my riding style, my local terrain, and my level of mechanical competence. On a short, easy ride I wouldn't notice much difference, but once the chunk and big hits are found, that's when my confidence remains unfazed on the coil. YMMV.
  • 1 0
 @Staktup:
Storia V3: €925
PUSH 11.6: €1,399

Fox DPS: €450
Manitou Mastodon: €635

Not really comparable, are they?
  • 1 0
 @Mac1987: I wasn't going by cost but performance, reliability and feel. Those are the only ones I spent enough time on to make this assessment. Happy to try Ohlins, EXT & other air shocks. I do have a CC DBIL air that replaced the mastodon which replaced the monarch that I love
  • 1 0
 @Staktup: sure, I understand. It's just that it's only to be assumed a 2 to 3 times more expensive product works better. A Mezzer Pro or Fox 38 Factory would be better comparisons.
  • 1 0
 Dream shock? That's easy. It would weigh one gram, be infinitely adjustable to any standard, have a price tag attached reading "$1", and contain a computer which actively adjusted all damping and rebound settings to be perfect for my riding style at all times.

Looking forward to the reality shock article.
  • 1 0
 Rock Shox is rather familiar to a smaller supermarket with less range of products, other shocks with more adjustments are the hypermarkets, where you will always think about your choice if it could have been better(never staisfied), but in the supermarket you are happy that they had that one product you just needed.
  • 1 0
 The X2 was designed specifically to have a huge range of adjustments so basically one tune could be fitted to almost any frame and any rider weight. All you had to do was make a few different lengths.

Rockshox on the other hand, has three pre set tunes for comp and three for rebound, which means a bunch of potential tunes that frame mfrs had to pick from. And they had to assume some average rider weight range (usually about 30lbs). DPX2 and FloatX are similar.

If you get the tune right, of course the shock is gonna be great. Get the tune wrong and not so much. Or have some fatty jump on your bike and the tune will feel like poo.

Now if you could take the big beautiful X2 airspring and match it up to a simpler but specifically tuned damper, it would be an amazing shock.

Fwiw, best shock I ever ran was a tuned Bomber to my frame and weight. Tuner set it up so I'm right in the middle of the clickers and I'm one click off from his recommendations. I'm also over 190 lbs, which is about as high as OEMs go for tuning.
  • 1 0
 One that wont ever let me wonder if maybe, just, ooone mooore click of ??? might make it even better
I mean, the last click made it better ,right? sooo
It would have Robot voices, (that sound like Marilyn Monroe )
that verbally say things like,,
“You have reached your optimum setting for ???”
Or ,”do not try one more click of ??? Do not click, dial, or turn any knobs any further or I will kick your skinny a$$ and explode “
“Keep you F%#king hands OFF my knobs “

“Thank you, would you like a beer” Beer
  • 1 0
 I ended up buying a DVO Jade X while waiting for a warranties X2. Since getting the x2 factory back, all I can say is that the coil just works. I can fiddle all I want with the air and it just never feels as grounded as the coil. I bet if I had time or more knowledge I could get my x2 feeling better but alas.
  • 1 0
 Got a float x2 no climb switch on my DH and it's ore or less dialed for riding. Max spacers (5) and the adjustability allowed me to set it up nicely. On my Enduro i have a bloody pogo that no matter what I do to it nothing changes. Full slow rebound and it still bucks max reducers and it bottoms out. About the only thing that kind of works I can't tune. So sure race results don't mean much. However having a bike that feels lively but not psychotic is something that all riders can appreciate. Sure if your shock what ever it is works for you, your riding and your bike than great. However I rely on adjustability to allow me the confidence to ride at a greater confidence and control.
  • 2 0
 My dream shocks comes with a day of setup with an expert, then I leave it alone besides checking the pressure now and then. Basically the same as now but it’s set up well in the first place
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy I hear you talking about how brakes should be better, however 6 rebuilds in a year with a dpx2 (stumpjumper) and the dps 5 in 10 months. Not only are the products not cheap the rebuilds are pricy. I just want a simple shock with some level of durability. 2.5 months in on the superdeluxe (replaced a dpx2 yeti 140) and its going strong. Simplicity is nice but i care more about longevity.
  • 1 0
 Holy crap, that sounds like a nightmare. I’ve never had that kind of unreliability, even way back in the day when bikes were mostly at fault for eating shocks.
  • 1 0
 I just get the local 'guys who know' to set my Rockshox Super Deluxe as best they can for my weight and general riding style/terrain and that's it. think I might have twiddled the high-speed compression once when in some really fast rough stuff but that's it.

But then I also ride a Shorty on the front all year cos I can't be bothered to swap it out. I just get used to whatever I've got, get good at that setup and don't really ever find myself wanting for more. My fitness, whether I sat funny in my work chair or what I've eaten that day has a far bigger impact on my riding than the shock settings tbh.
  • 1 0
 Honestly, i dont give a shit. Ich want my damper to work as good as possible. If thats possible out of the box, cool. But since there are fat and skinny rider, fast and slow ones, different frames, different trails and different riding styles, its simply impossible to have a damper thats perfect for everone out of the box. so i really want my dials, and no electronics what so ever. cheap, simple, adjustable, long lasting, no fancy shit.
  • 9 5
 None. I don’t want a bastard shock. Hardtail for life!
  • 1 0
 Right there with you...for now. As I quickly approach 50 my mind may change. Plus, another reason for N+1.
  • 1 0
 18 inches of stroke with a coil/air hybrid system and 2 gas reservoirs, cuz 2 is betterer, and mind control sag and air pressure setting. On a down country enduro bike, of course.
  • 3 0
 An ext storia with a electronic remote for the climb switch. I am making one out of some parts but It could be smaller.
  • 3 0
 A shock like the Fox Float X is the perfect choice for most riders IMO. Super capable and easy to adjust
  • 5 0
 Actually really liking the Float X right now. Great feel, reliable, far less complex than a Float X2. win/win/win
  • 1 0
 Yep, swapped out my new X2 (after riding it for a year) for my old Float X (which I had revalved for bike/weight). So much better and I worked hard to try and get the X2 dialled. Could never get the X2 to work as well.
  • 2 0
 No knobs, bells, or whistles on my ideal shock; just a perfect tune for my bodyweight. Like the Ronco showtime rotisserie, just set it and forget it!
  • 2 0
 I hate fiddling with suspension. You could make it look like a firm turd and I'd ride it if it was 100% set and forget.
  • 1 0
 @jesse-effing-edwards: @Mcbutterpants: the knobs are just a way to get that perfect tune without resorting to taking it apart and changing shims and such. Even a shock/damper with every possible knob can still be set and forget:
I haven't touched the (2) rebound knobs on my Grip2 since initial shakedown when I got my pressure and tokens dialed 2 years ago (and those haven't changed either).

It's not like it's some kind regular maintenance to spin all the knobs, it's just stupid humans doing the fiddling.

I repeat: more knobs does not mean that more initial fiddling, nor constant fiddling, is _required_. It just means it's _possible_. If you don't like fiddling at all, you leave them in the recommended place, and if you like set & forget, then you just set them, and, umm forget them.

Less knobs isn't really set and forget, it's just plain forget, because there is less to set.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: I never twiddled knobs until I got a DVO fork. Now 2 years later I'm still twiddling to perfect the tune, while my Lyrik had a 5 minute session and hasn't been touched since. If I have to think about, which is impossible not to with 4 knobs, then I keep wondering if it I could make an adjustment for every trail & conditions etc. No knobs have you just deal with what you got if you're the agonizing type. I love my coil for giving me few options.

obviously I'm neurotic.
  • 1 0
 @jesse-effing-edwards: I don't understand why anyone would "just deal" with a few hundred to one thousand dollar-buck piece of equipment. Maybe it's because I'm out of the ideal range for most aftermarket tunes (100 kilos and smashy ride style), but I can't "just deal" with base R-only shocks and forks: air spring adjustment alone is too many compromises to ride the way I like to ride.

If you feel an unstoppable urge to tinker, are you also tweaking fork and shock pressures (or adjusting a Sprindex) for "every trail & conditions"? Tire pressure? Frame geo adjust if applicable? Your neuroses don't change the fact that every damper, every adjustment, is "set & forget" if you want it to be, but some are literally "can't set, forget it", no matter how neurotic you are.
  • 1 0
 Twin tube isn't necessarily better than a monotube design. Heck most of the best, high end shocks in the motorsport world are monotubes. Twin tube is just a variation of the design.
  • 4 0
 The poll is rigged, I couldn’t pick Full elastomer as my dream shock.
  • 1 0
 There are lot of more cool things to do than just those options. bypass shocks and tunning pistons for air shafts. We've matured the chassis enough to handle more complex shock systems.
  • 5 0
 Like an EXT Storia.
  • 3 0
 Came here to post the same thing.
  • 2 0
 As someone who runs a 2001 Fox Vanilla RC on his current steed and is horrified by both Air cans and the price of current shocks.
  • 2 0
 Most people would be better off with a shock where you can just set the sag and let the shocks super computer figure out what you need.
  • 2 0
 A real dream shock would be something reasonably priceded, easy to service at home and there would always be service kits/parts available to it... Smile
  • 1 0
 For those exact criteria I bought the old version of the SuperDeluxe Ultimate Coil. It was cheap (on sale), it’s very DIY friendly and the service items are available from most online retailers.
  • 1 0
 I won’t participate in any more PB polls until I get my 24 bucks back — that I paid a couple months before the rug was pulled out from under Beta. Is Brian Park still working at PB?
  • 3 0
 Not requiring service ever. Self tuning
  • 3 0
 It’d look like a young Megan Fox in a gold bikini
  • 2 1
 I feel like I am the complete opposite of the average Pinkbike reader. I want wireless lockouts on my shocks, otherwise a remote one will be fine.
  • 1 0
 My dream shock would be what I have now. Only, if the shock doesn't require any maintenance and it keeps working the way it is.
  • 1 0
 As I said before,a shock with a lockout lever that returned to fully open and stayed open on a big hit. A enduro race saver,if you ask me.
  • 2 1
 I want every aspect to be electronically controlled aside from setting the correct sag. No knobs, no lockout switch. Take me to the future.
  • 2 0
 A freshly serviced one. Preferably coil. I probably should service my Jade this weekend.
  • 2 1
 I am just going to hold out until Öhlins comes out with their proprietary do-it-for-you suspension system.....logically called Suspension Linkage Unification Telemetry.
  • 2 0
 If Greg Minnaar doesnt know what hes doing with the knobs and buttons, how would I ever wrap my head around it?
  • 2 1
 Analog, reliable, simple to adjust, rebuildable at home, affordableish, good customer service. DVO is coming the closest to meeting all of those these days.
  • 1 0
 Reliable is far from it now. If they can figure that out and how to not have the fork that you can’t break loose with less than 300 lbs of force you got it
  • 1 0
 @freeridejerk888: I think this article is about rear shocks. I run a Lyrik up front because it’s easy to service and works well for me on stock tune.
  • 1 0
 I just wish Cane Creek hadn’t discontinued the “OPT” remote. That, combined with my “updated” DB Inline was pretty sweet for a short-travel rig.
  • 1 0
 One that works well, easy to set up, set it and forget it, and works for us heavier riders without having to max out the air pressure.
  • 2 0
 One where service kits are available to purchase. I'm looking at you Rockshox.
  • 2 3
 The "high speed rebound" or just rebound circuit is the workhorse of any shock, without rebound your ridding a "pogo stick" - We feel it is interesting or maybe telling that HSR had the least votes of the 4 damping adjustments - Does this speak to how under-educated the consumer really is? or how over-hyped other adjusters are?

Also, most people seem to think compression damping is a good adjustment to correct for the wrong spring rate, this seems to be a mistake that even industry people make, how did that get started?

\m/
  • 1 1
 Amen brother! Ive been in shops since before we had suspension and ive rarely see a bike set up right. Its harder than it should be to get people to spend the 15 min to figure out the spring rate they need. Even my riding buddies. And if i do ser up a bike for someone they fiddle with stuff till it feels like crap. What i cant get is for how much people spend on modern mountain bikes and how in to riding they are, how can so many people be so clueless when it comes to bike setup and basic maintenance? Learning about your insanely over priced hobby is free. A properly setup $800 bike is going to preform better than a janky over damped carbon status symbol.
  • 1 1
 @Tmntnshit: - Here is my belief:
when you look at optimizing for racing application (DH, enduro, dirt bikes, whatever) - the point of optimal traction is slightly different than the point of optimal comfort, but they are not far off of each other- pro dh teams are using allot of data collection and analytics for this reason- how the bike feels best is not the same as when the bike is fastest leads the consumer down a path of confusion and everything "setup" becomes abstract - "I can't feel adjuster changes" or "A bracketing process sounds too hard or complicated"

I agree, that most issues are caused by setup errors or lack of maintenance -

perhaps the message needs to be "setup is important, follow the setup process exactly, spring rate and rebound are most important, trust the process"?
  • 2 1
 "No externally adjustable hsr" is not the same as "no hs shim stack". Generally (although not always) dampers with external high speed adjusters are then limited to using poppet valves, which are arguably not as good as a properly shaped shim stack. Hence me not wanting hsr adjusters built into my shock. + my shocks are always coil. Once ive got the hsr internal tune where i want it, i rarely need to change it again for some time.
  • 2 1
 If you’re bottomed out and have the maximum force built up in the shock to begin the rebound stroke, you’ll start off in the high speed rebound circuit but very quickly you’ll end up in the low speed rebound circuit as the spring force in the shock decreases through the extending travel. As a result, most of the rebound stroke is handled by the low speed circuit. I’m assuming this is why most shocks with only a single rebound knob are adjusting the low speed, not high speed. Apologies if my vocabulary isn’t spot.
  • 2 1
 I think the vast majority of riders don't really understand compression and rebound concepts to start with. The other thing is that they also don't really understand how the bike is responding while they are riding it. It's sort of a next level thing to be riding and also feeling and perceiving what the bike is doing under you at the same time. Pardon the analogy, but it's sort of like tasting beer or wine where you learn a vocabulary of tastes and smells to characterize the experience. There is a ton of perceptions that need to be made and labeled in your mind before you can begin to make sense of the situation, only then can you start to turn the knobs with any sort of understanding. It is a hell of a lot for even a competent rider to process. There is certainly the perception that compression can be used to limit travel. Hell, the Cane Creek setup guide for me DB Air says so. There is some truth to it in sort of a last few milimeters of travel context.
  • 1 0
 @gabriel-mission9: if you are building your own shim stack, or are working with a tuner who is doing this for you, you get the perfect amount of damping for your weight and riding condition, you are very fortunate, do you think the 99.9% of riders get that level of attention?
  • 1 3
 @twonsarelli: I would disagree, most shocks that only have one red (rebound) adjuster have the HSR -
I agree that the high and low adjusters blend into one rebound curve, I am aware there is major brand out there selling that their shock's high and low speed adjusters are completely independent, but we don't buy it
We are thinking the HSR still dominates the curve where the LSR only effects the initial rebound stroke (similar to LSC)
  • 1 2
 @polarflux: We feel your hitting pay dirt here - We think the average rider is under-educated in regards to suspension basics - We speculate the reason for this is most riders that are awake and paying attention get caught up in the marketing hype of the technical arms race that goes on between the various brands at all levels of industry -

I like that you add that in addition to educating riders, many riders might need support in recognizing sensations and building their perception skills of what is happening with their bike on the trail

Compression can be be used to limit travel - Low speed compression was originally marketed as a feature that can create a "peddle platform" so the shock only really opens for bigger hits, thus limited the travel for smaller hits to make more efficient pedaling

The latest hype feature "Hydraulic bottom out", we feel is just ending stoke compression damping (another way to make suspension spring rate feel more progressive for aggressive sendy riders)
  • 3 1
 @recycledmountainracing-com:

In a compression stroke, you might land off of a drop at full extension, almost instantaneously blowing through the low speed compression circuit and ending up in high speed for (effectively) the full travel used. As a result, high speed compression is A more useful adjustment for tuning the fork/shock.

Conversely, when rebounding, all of the force is generated by the compressed spring (coil or air), which exerts maximum force at the beginning of the rebound stroke. The force decreases as the shock returns to full extension, reducing the shaft speed. As a result, only the initial, high force (high speed) part of the rebound stroke is handled by the high speed rebound circuit. The rest of the rebound stroke is through the low speed circuit, as there just isn’t enough force in the shock spring through the full travel. Not sure exactly what percentage it would be, as that depends on the shock, the tune, the spring rate, etc. My general understanding is that it is a (perhaps small) majority in favor of the low speed circuit.

All of my forks have grip2 dampers because I want to have both anyway, so it is sort of moot. As you mentioned, the interaction between high and low circuits also cannot be ignored.

I did double check the websites for fox and rockshox and neither of them claimed that the single rebound knob was for high or low specifically, so perhaps I’ve misread this in the past, things have changed, or I just forgot!
  • 1 3
 @twonsarelli:
I think your making a very common mistake in thinking compression is spring rate - I will explain - when you go off that jump and your suspension fulled extends before landing is it spring rate (not compression) that is catching you and absorbing that hit - compression only adjusts the timing of the stroke to the degree you have damping - Compression is inversely related to rebound - As you increase mass and speed you will need more rebound damping to control the bike, inversely as you add mass and speed you will need relatively less compression damping - (physics)

I would argue after you compress, rebound is a constant force (not changing) based off the spring rate - probably slightly changing for progressively wound springs and air tends to be progressive

In regard to high / low - LSC compression came to the bicycle market in the form of "pedaling platforms" but it has been used in auto racing and motorcycle racing for a way to stabilize cars through hard corners and counter brake-dive, and acceleration stink bug in bikes - After LSC was in the marketplace people made the argument you need matching LSR for your LSC - My feeling is LSR only effected the initial rebound stroke and is by far the adjuster most difficult to feel and most obscure and opaque for consumers to understand

Does that all make sense?
  • 1 1
 @recycledmountainracing-com: good point. Racers aee racers. Be honest about how you use your bike and set it up accordingly. Someone who just piddles around at slow speeds can still benifit from suspension set up for that purpouse. Not everything happens at the highest limits of performance.
  • 1 1
 @polarflux: as a profesional brewer and life long bike mechanic, this analogy hits in so many ways. Brewers and beer drinkers like different beer. Theres bikes/parts that mechanics ride and theres what riders ride.
  • 1 1
 @recycledmountainracing-com: but whats really more efficient for pedalling? A wheel that tracks the round efficiently, or one rhat compensates for poorly designed bike? I find a good bike fully open makes for better climbing due to better traction. Riders need to ask themselves what makes for a good bike ride.. strava, or enjoyment.
  • 3 1
 @recycledmountainracing-com:
Nearly everything said there was wrong. Sorry.
If you only have 1 rebound adjuster on a damper, it is always LSR.
During a compression event, the compression damping circuit and the spring both work to slow you down.
As you add mass and speed you will need more compression damping. As you add springrate you will need more rebound damping.
The force exerted by the spring is definitely not constant during the rebound stroke
LSC is not the same as a pedal platform. Usually pedal platforms work by using a preloaded high speed valve. Yes the lsc has to be (relatively) closed for them to function, but its the high speed circuit doing the work.
The low speed rebound adjuster is by far the most obviously felt adjustment, and easiest for the customer to understand, as it (for most mtb shock designs) does the lions share of the work on the rebound stroke.
  • 3 1
 @recycledmountainracing-com: And yes, custom internal tuning is available to every rider if they want it
  • 3 1
 @recycledmountainracing-com: I wasn’t really making any comment about spring rate in my compression explanation. I was just noting how all compression events start with flow through the low speed circuit. Then, at some point, with enough force, the high speed circuit is triggered and the flow goes through that circuit until the shaft speed slows enough that you end up in low speed again (or you bottom our harshly). As a result, most of the flow during a large impact, the sort that would get you to, or close to, bottom out, is through the high speed circuit.

As far as rebound goes, the deeper in the travel you are, the more initial force the spring will have to accelerate toward top out. Think about a 500 pound spring- 1 inch of compression on that spring is 500 pounds, 2 inches is 1000 pounds, 3 inches is 1500 pounds. The force during extension is absolutely not constant, as you suggested. If extending from 3 compressed inches, there is far more force than from 1 inch. As a result, only the extension events of the shock that is deep into its travel even result in shaft speeds fast enough to get into the high speed rebound circuit. Anything below that threshold (the majority of rebound events as we ride around not bottomed out) will be handled by low speed rebound. Like I said, I’m running forks with grip2 dampers, as well as X2s on my bikes, so I am trying to make useful changes to both high and low. It’s just that if I were forced to only have one, I’d choose low.
  • 2 0
 @twonsarelli: Bang on. Although the amount of hsr (and to a certain extent lsr) changes at what point in the rebound stroke the hsr circuit opens. If you run max lsr and min hsr, its perfectly possible for the hsr to be open for 90% of the rebound stroke. If you run max hsr and min lsr, its perfectly possible for the hsr not to open at all, even when returning from a full bottom out. This interplay can be seen clearly on the X2 damper, and is an interesting thing to mess around with. There is a huge amount of crossover between the two, and I'd say the biggest headache when tuning X2 (and similar) dampers is trying to get the hsr and lsr to work well as a complete unit.
  • 3 0
 @gabriel-mission9: yes, that’s a good point. I may have overstated the amount of time you’d be in LSR compared to HSR (no way to know in an arbitrary setting) in any given rebound event. It is remarkable how much the HSR impacts the LSR in a DHX2 and X2. If the HSR is wide open, the range of adjustment for LSR is surprisingly narrow. However, if HSR is mostly closed off, the range of LSR is comparatively huge.
  • 1 3
 @Tmntnshit: I think everyone agrees that fully open = better traction - but the issue may have to do with how much energy the athlete expends - The MTB portion of Leadville was run a few days ago which has some brutal climbs - there were many pros running ultra lightweight hardtails -why did they do that if FS fully open is better?
  • 1 2
 @gabriel-mission9: in terms of bicycle products there was no such thing a "HSR" until "LSR" became a selling feature, and that was feature was in response to "LSC"/pedal platforms being a success in the marketplace -
HSR, or really just rebound is the main rebound circuit

I am a heavier DH rider and we also do some work on high power e-bikes (heavier) as weight increases if you increase compression damping (everything else being equal), the fork is much more likely to start "stacking" up on repeated hits, it starts to experience hydraulic locking and this makes the ride much more harsh - compression is inversely related to rebound
  • 1 3
 @gabriel-mission9: the question was not availability - the issue is the average rider who gets a major brand suspension product, usually as a OE part on a complete bike they bought has no idea that those services are available - they usually don't read the owner manual or a setup guide- I see guys asking their friends in forums all the time what clicks they should use on an adjuster with no discussion of weight, riding conditions, etc as if their friend's setup (who probably didn't setup properly either) can tell them how their fork should be setup
  • 1 2
 @twonsarelli:
I think your understanding of LSC vs HSC is fairly spot on, a hard fast hit will quickly overload the LSC and goto the HSC circuit

When I look charts that show the effect (change) of LSC or LSR it generally only effect the very start of the curve - (bigger / faster hits easily overwell this setting)

I understand the spring rate (500lbs) is roughly the weight or pressure required to compress the spring 1" - The constant is the rate of 500lbs/inch to compress or remove and uncompress- In terms of rebound speed, the speed is controlled by how much rebound damping is controlling that expansion- that is what rebound damping does- what are we trying to figure out here?
  • 2 0
 @recycledmountainracing-com: Once again, nearly everything you have said there is just plain incorrect. And I don't think you are completely clear on what hydraulic lock means. Not even sure where to start here.
  • 3 0
 @recycledmountainracing-com: my entire point was that low speed rebound is responsible for a much higher percentage of the rebound stroke than you were suggesting. I introduced the comparison with compression because shaft speeds in compression are much, much higher (easily > 7m/s) than rebound shaft speeds ( 1m/s). So I was saying that the high speed compression circuit is much more important for suspension tuning than low speed (on this, I think we’re in total agreement) whereas the low speed rebound circuit is more important than the high speed rebound circuit, as many rebound events won’t accelerate the shaft fast enough to even get into the high speed circuit. You said that the spring force was relatively constant, based on spring rate, which just isn’t true. If you’re rebounding from .1” on a 500 pound spring, the force is 50 pounds. If you’re rebounding from 3” on a 500 pound spring, it’s 1500 pounds. I’m not saying HSR isn’t useful. In fact, on the X2 and the DHX2 at least, the high speed circuit does appear to have significant impact on the range of the LSR. All I was trying to say was if I had control over one or the other, I’d pick low speed rebound.
  • 2 0
 Racers dont need more settings coz their shocks are setup specificaly for the race.... normies just cant do that...
  • 1 0
 I can't even tell if my climb switch gets knocked on. I just want a shock that doesn't lose damping before the seasons out (fox).
  • 1 0
 From what I've tried, even though it had some issues in first gen CC Inline air was far the best for me. Honestly thinking about to swap X2 air for some new CC
  • 1 0
 My dream shock would be waking up in the morning to find someone had filled my garage with several brand new bikes. Oh sorry you meant rear shock.
  • 1 0
 I've got a RS Deluxe with just the rebound adjustment. I've considered upgrading to something with more adjustment but it seems to work fine so why spend the money?
  • 1 0
 Dream shock?

Basically the old version of the RS SuperDeluxe Coil: Low maintenance, decent performance, few but effective adjustments, very DIY friendly.
  • 1 0
 Lots of special tools to make simple adjustments. Even more to simple rebuilds. maybe change them ever 6 months or so...
  • 2 0
 Shocks are pretty good overall, they just need to be easier to maintain.
  • 2 1
 My dream shock is a Cane Creek DB Inline Coil that weighs as much as an air shock, and is made by Rock Shox.
  • 1 0
 Low speed, mid speed, high speed compression and rebound. Electronic lockout.
  • 1 0
 Please spare me with remotes and electronic gadgetry. Also make service intervals somewhere in the 300-500 h range. Thanks.
  • 1 0
 my ideal shock is my deluxe on my current bike but with a remote lockout for funzies
  • 1 0
 Torsion bar spring and semi-active magnetic damper. I'll settle for a semi-active magnetorhelogical damper
  • 1 0
 I read magnetoTHeological lol
  • 1 0
 @mechatronicjf: Praise G-out-sus.
  • 3 0
 not a crappy Fox
  • 2 0
 Why does anyone still buy the X2?
  • 1 0
 Already have my dream shock. Rockshox Super Deluxe coil. LSC, rebound, climb switch. Works like a hot damn.
  • 1 0
 Ccdb coil is supreme. Not just because of the adjusters, but because of the superior damper. Air shocks are
  • 2 0
 Vorsprung coil shock please
  • 1 0
 My avalanche / fox RC was the best shock I’ve ever used.
1 rebound, 1 comp.
Thing made my bike a magic carpet
  • 2 0
 An uncooked Top Ramen noodle. Kashima coated.
  • 1 0
 i think i want more dials but my monkey brain doesnt get it so im probably better off with no dials at all
  • 1 0
 How bout one that doesn’t look like it’s covered in oil after a day at a bike park.
  • 2 0
 how about one that doesnt break or need service every 10 rides?
  • 1 0
 I honestly don't think I'd change anything about the Float X2 on my Megatower it's probably already my perfect shock.
  • 1 0
 it would look like a showa BFRC or a shock on a motoGP bike. how is this even a question.
  • 1 0
 You see. Stop shoving us the you need electronics on your bike BS. Its over
  • 1 0
 PB: What would your dream shock look like?
Me: Absolutely invisibile, I ride hardtails.
  • 3 0
 It would be purple.
  • 1 0
 Formula Mod
  • 1 0
 @Staktup: *air. But that thing is sexy.
  • 2 3
 Shocks are a crutch for the weak - just like gears and ebikes. If the trails are too hard for you, you could ask your moms to shuttle you up and back down the trails, like a little baby.
  • 1 1
 And lastly, get off my damn lawn, ya lousy kids!
  • 2 0
 Super happy with my Ohlins TTX22M coil shock…thanks
  • 2 0
 Avalanche Downhill Racing.
  • 1 0
 what a stupid post to quote. I'd say that back to back wins has earned that system some respect.
  • 2 0
 I use all the dials on my Cane Creek coil.
  • 3 1
 Niot a fox one....
  • 1 0
 For me it may have no adjustments, but must be tuned internally.
  • 1 0
 Voice activated or don't bother with any other improvements.
  • 1 0
 Voice activated suspension changes, buttons are so last month
  • 1 0
 I'd like one that is blue to match my frame. Thanks.
  • 4 2
 Push11/6 100%
  • 1 0
 Huge circus woman with a beard . On top of me .
  • 2 0
 What a shock that would be!
  • 1 0
 Kashmina gold coil, obviously.
  • 2 0
 It looks like an EXT.
  • 1 1
 If the shock works..... who cares what it works look like... knobs and dials are overrated
  • 2 0
 Not a Fox X2 anyway.
  • 1 0
 user serviceable for all recommended maintenance
  • 1 0
 Say hello to DVO
  • 1 0
 Their service guides leave out about 40% of a rebuild and are a little wonky because there are updates and they don’t post them. @CarbonShmarbon:
  • 1 0
 @freeridejerk888: really?
I have found their guides nicely straightforward and thorough. Granted, I have not followed all of them through. If anything they include unnecessary steps here and there- the damper bleed on the Jade, for example, seems like the long way around to get all the air out, but it works.
  • 1 0
 Lucas and Tegan Cruz winning the rainbow strips next weekend
  • 1 0
 Easily Servicable is an important one
  • 1 0
 An air shock that doesnt blow up.
  • 1 0
 Trek ‘enduro’ isostrut with 160mm of travel
  • 1 0
 I want a coil in a 165x45. That would be the tits!
  • 1 0
 EXT Storia V3 is available in 165x45
  • 1 0
 @notsosikmik: That is true. There are a few. I was looking at my bike and the clearance is just too tight
  • 1 0
 @Thirty3: Curious what bike it is?
  • 2 0
 @notsosikmik: Its a Lexon Riot.. its. Its also a Trinx, the same one Eva Lechner uses on the world cup
m.facebook.com/photo.php/?fbid=527083518796478
Hope the link show the photo.
There simply isn't enough room. There isn't enough room for my Cane Creek InLine :-\
  • 1 0
 Whatever voodoo Craig did to my Bomber CR coil is all I need.
  • 2 0
 1 word……HARDTAIL
  • 1 0
 I wanna DH/FR switch.....
  • 1 0
 my ideal shock looks exactly like my favourite can of beer
  • 1 0
 Hydraulic bottom out, higher oil flow
  • 1 1
 I don't need no settings or adjustment for my legs for hardtail Smile )
  • 1 1
 No knobs on a coil shock with air HBO. KISS.
  • 2 1
 gold plated
  • 1 1
 As long as it isn't gold, I don't fin mind
  • 1 0
 Expert knob twiddlers
  • 1 0
 A rubber fist.
  • 1 0
 Like an EXT Storia V3.
  • 1 0
 pink
  • 1 1
 Gold plated fur trim





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