Pinkbike Poll: Would You Buy an Enduro Bike With a Dual-Crown Fork?
Bikes in every category are getting ever more capable. Better geometry, suspension and components mean we've never had it so good. But in a recent poll we found out that some of you still suffer with creaking fork crowns. This could be because it's possible to send harder than ever without a downhill bike, and because bigger wheels and slacker head angles put more leverage and stress on the crown.
Trek's Knock Block and other steering limiters raise the question of whether it makes sense to have just one crown.
At the same time, Trek's Knock Block deliberately limits the steering lock in order to protect the frame and handlebar controls in the event of a crash. And since its introduction, more brands have followed suit with steering limiters of their own. But this lack of steering lock is one of the major reasons to have a single-crown fork in the first place. And dual-crown forks make a lot more sense from a structural point of view.
Picture holding a fishing rod with a heavy fish on the end. If you hold it one-handed, there's a lot of torsional strain on your hand and wrist, making it hard to hold on. But if you hold it with two hands, some distance apart, there's virtually no torsional strain on your wrists. That's why dual-crown forks never creak, and why they have a lower stack height because the crown doesn't need to be so tall. This can allow for more travel for a given axle-to-crown length, plus the axle-to-crown measurement can be adjusted by moving the stanchions through the crowns, to fine-tune the geometry. Dual crowns also offer more room to fit a larger volume air spring, with lower compression ratios, which can provide a more coil-like spring curve.
I've been testing this dual-crown MORC 36 from Mojo rising on a Geometron G1. It's designed to have a stiffer chassis and more linear air spring than the Fox 36 on which it's based.
Of course, weight is a concern. But some single-crowns like the Fox 38 or Marzocchi Z1 coil are already perilously close to the weight of a RockShox Boxxer (2588g), or MRP Bartlett (2,495g).
So would you buy a bike if it came with a dual-crown fork?
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If I could not spin my bars, Id struggle to get the bike in my van!
Its not genetally snapping, dual crowns and direct mount stems are stiffer and have better adjustability
✔ A single speed chain is stronger than a derailleur chain, which is designed to flex and shift.
✔ There is no derailleur for the chain to get tangled up in and jam.
✔ There is no exposed rear derailleur to get damaged by rocks and other obstacles.
✔ The front sprocket isn't as large so the chain is much less likely to get hit when the suspension bottoms out, and is less likely to hit the ground or hit rocks, dramatically decreasing the chances of damaging the chain.
✔ Sticks or other obstacles are much less likely to get caught in the drivetrain, which can damage or rip off the rear derailleur or cause damage to the chain.
✔ The chain is tighter and not bouncing around as much, dramatically lessening the chance of damage or derailment.
✔ There is no risk of a bent or out of adjustment rear derailleur, causing the chain to shift off of the casette into the spokes, which can immediacy destroy the drivetrain and hanger and put the rider at immediate risk without warning.
✔ There is much less risk of the bike mis-shifting while pedaling, which can by itself cause your feet to come off the pedals, and/or cause the rider to lose balance and crash.
People's comments and arguments are getting blown out of the water by me in my derailleur hater blog, it's a literal blood bath for the derailleur suckers trying to defend them. Anybody who visits the blog and tries to defend derailleurs need to be prepared to be immediately suppressed.
As for dual crown on enduro, could care less. I either ride an e bike or my chainless, derailleur free coaster old school 26" DH bike. But I'm mostly on my e bike. unless I go to Whistler. People who still spend money for old timey retro grouch enduro non e bikes are fools who are easily departed with their money. I took off the derailleur and put it in the trash bin, cause...
#Justice4Luca
If you read the comments in my blog I've destroyed these types of points over and over again.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/196790
m.pinkbike.com/photo/7086747
It rode pretty well until it oval’d out the head tube.
They belong on dh bikes.
To me, the only reason to not to ride a hardtail is back/knee/ankle pain and a dual crown is doing nothing in this regard....
Back then the ultimate frame was a Banshee or a 24 Le Toy
youtu.be/5LxYM8IOI3Q
Matching the A2C and travel numbers great, but then you went to all the effort and cost to match spring/damper curves! Then custom crowns to hit the offset?! Huge props.
Also, didn’t Specialized first Enduro have a double crown fork that was Soecialized’s Future Shock branded?
If the bike can climb well with single or dual crown fork, I would take the dual crown fork.
Also, sure there was the knee-to-upper-crown bashing problem back in the day when people tried this, but bikes are so long that it's really not a big deal either.
Heck, even right now the WC boxxers are only 300g heavier than my coil-sprung Helm. And as much as it's not a light fork, I'm not complaining about the weight. I haven't had a DC-forked bike in a couple of years, but man did I love steering them.
www.extremeshox.com/product/ext-era.
I would agree the first ride the directness of steering wasn't noticeable better
Personally no.
@pakleni:
Same here.
My AL Kona Process 153 is 36-37lbs, and I pedal it everywhere (I have no choice not to, its my only bike). So when I do things like change to heavier/draggier tires, I notice it for a ride or few, then after a while it just becomes the new normal.
And with dual crown forks being pretty close in weight to some of the burly single crowns, I think there is a good chance we'll see this eventually (or at least more testing with it). Especially as people are wanting more travel for enduro racing, and dual crowns can fit a bit more travel into the same axle to crown distance. Seems like an ideal situation.
Not only weight is a far third to geometry and suspension kinematics when climbing, but also most of us are miles away from our fitness ceiling. Thus, most weight gains such as in the tyres can generally be easily accommodated within some weeks of riding
Anybody who owes a power meter and does a proper test, will realize that the weight penalty in an hour climb is really only a few seconds difference.
Don't get me wrong, I like my road bikes as light as possible and rarely exceed 7kg (while using reliable components), cause they just feel good and slick but an enduro bike with 2.5 DD/DH Maxxgrip tires will never feel slick even 2kg lighter (tried it), it will just not roll any faster.
Given that it's also a bike made for the down, a dual crown makes a huge difference, really huge and there's basically no downsides on the ups.
Ohlins is another great option with adjustable travel and different offset crown options which I'm looking forward to try in the near future.
On the trail they track better, give you more stability and way better braking under chatter, the difference is huge, especially while braking.
Also the direct connection to your bars give you a better feedback on what's going on underneath and they just have a better feeling when pushing hard and allow you to have a bit more margin than with a single crown.
I don't have a XC bike but I think I want one with a 120 ohlins now lol
ep1.pinkbike.org/p3pb20105632/p3pb20105632.jpg
200/215 travel high pivot dual crown. 63hta, 475mm reach, 80sta 29er. 17kg
Works great and climbs fine.
My seatstay did break in 2012 but eBay fixed that right up, been riding it harder than ever the last few years and it’s holding up... for now
But for real that dual crown and 25mm axle must be doing something right because it’s a seriously stiffer feeling from handlebars to the wheel than even my tapered boost-axled Lyrik, the dual crown e150 is structurally a super reliable fork
Now the 13 year old damper inside that fork, that’s another story
The real problem is actually finding a replacement, a 150mm non-tapered single crown or (more likely) travel-reduced dual crown at a price fit for a 2008 bike is impossible to find
Why not create additional turning angle by offsetting the stanchions forward? The axle is already offset from the fork legs. Imagine if you turned the lowers backwards so that the axle is behind the fork legs, and then used crowns that push the stanchions forward to bring the axle to steering axis offset back to normal.
I used to ride a DJ frame with a dual crown as I was starting up in the DH scene though, it was impeccable and so comfortable!
My (I'm 6ft) ideal bike for today would be a something in a size M with 160mm in the back and a dual crown at 180mm or 200mm in the front, just because it feels good and I don't look like I'm riding a Harley when I'm at the trails.
Funny thing is - eBikes loose weight year after year. Smaller 2.35 tires become sufficient. Guess in 2025 we will see e-enduros with less weight than standard enduros
So if you need a double crown fork - why can‘t you simply go with a freerider?
www.rotwild.com/bikes/bikes/enduro/re375/pro
Me? I run 40s and full DH travel, front and rear, as, even in my 7th decade, I'm fairly aggressive in my riding, and I'm ever becoming more 'solid' (Bear The Fat Old B**tard) . Tried some of the "new" 38mm leg SC forks, and had creaking crowns within a couple of weeks, on both the brands I used. And, honestly, expected it to happen. Make them so it couldn't happen, with either / and more clamp engagement / thickness, or, better still, that and Clamping Bolts, and they'd go past even big DH forks in weight, I would suspect.
I also make my frames with Real steer stops, Not rubber bumpers on either the legs or main frame. It's Not hard to do, but it seems near impossible for so many manufacturers........
2004 Specialized Enduro with Manitou DC for the wife
#aheadofthecurve
B: Treks steer block thing is for grampa dentists bc you can't do barspins
C: Frig it, just put a single crown on your DH bike so you can do barspins
D: Enduro is dumb and everyone who likes things that aren't my personal preference is dumb too
Not an enduro pro, but I don't understand needing/wanting a dual crown for that.
Who cares how they ride, I'll be the coolest middle aged fat bloke on the planet!
- Fox 38, RockShox ZEB - anyone?
- A dual-crown fork limits the angle you can turn your wheel to a degree that can sabotage your bike handling in tight/technical climbs. Part of it being an "enduro" bike requires that it needs to be a bike you can ride up trails, not just down them.
- It would be a pain in the ass to transport (I usually just pull off the front wheel and lay my bike down in the back of my car).
- It would never be as light as a comparable single-crown fork.
Specialized attempted this sort of thing with the Enduro SL back in 2007/2008 and it was a shit bike (the fork being one of several issues).
Poll says enduhro bike
?
(Disclaimer: Front suspension is complicated and I'm probably wrong.)
Gravel bike = XC hardtail
As I get older, I see the regurgitation of bike category.
How much stiffness and travel does an Enduro bike need?