Pinkbike Poll: Would You Pay A Rider For Their Video?

Sep 14, 2020
by Brian Park  
Nathan Williams and Christian Rigal worked for three years on their 'Why Not?' BMX video part, and sold it directly for $5 per download.


By today's standards, the year 2010 was unremarkable. Macho Man Randy Savage died of a heart attack. There was a tomato shortage in the spring.

But in many ways, it was a golden era of mountain bike videos. Every young, hungry rider was putting in work on sponsor-me edits, and bike brands were investing in big, ambitious projects with their top athletes. Video edits took time, they weren't something you filmed in a day.

Fast forward a decade, and we see more video than ever from incredibly talented riders—but it's clear that on average the effort per project has gone down. There are probably only ~10 truly exceptional video parts per year. Tom Van Steenbergen's Wild West was a huge project and an absolute face-melter, Fabio Wibmer regularly blows our minds, and you can always count on Brandon Semenuk to drop a few gems every year.

Beyond that, there are a lot of one-day trail bike edits, or 3-4 day "projects"; marketing-heavy bike launch pieces designed to appeal to everyone, and a lot of YouTube folks talking at the camera for 10 minutes and 5 seconds. Ultimately, viewers are finding value in things besides shredits, and brands are demanding more return on their investments.

To be clear, that's not a bad thing necessarily. The YouTube space is exciting, and it's great that it's sharing more accessible versions of the sport with the general public. We've been having a lot of fun on our own channel with projects like Field Test and the Grim Donut in there, but no multi-year shredit efforts...

And who are we to say brands shouldn't be making sure their products are promoted in their videos? Having sponsored riders is sports marketing, it'd be silly to forget about the marketing part. An all-action video part often doesn't align with a brand's marketing goals—especially when it's someone riding insane, un-relatable features on an un-sellable bike with obsolete wheels. Hell, Nico Vink's incredible 'From The Ash' edit was supposed to be part of a bigger project that was plagued with production issues, so by the time it finally came out he had an entirely different bike sponsor.

All that said, there's something special about an action-based video part that someone put their blood, sweat, and tears into. As cool as that recent Trek Slash launch video was, what it really made me want is a long-form video part from Kade Edwards.

But if brands aren't interested in these high effort, low ROI videos, who should pay for them?


When you watch the outtakes from 'Why Not?' it's clear that the effort that went into it was massive.


Well, in my opinion, I should. I'm the one that wants to see them after all.

In the BMX world, Nathan Williams and Christian Rigal worked for three years on their Why Not? video part, and sold it directly for $5 per download. I enjoyed the trailer, heard a few people say it was good, and was happy to spend the $5. Total insanity, worth every penny. If you're at all interested in BMX, you should go buy it right now.

That said, while nearly 900K people have watched the outtakes above, only a fraction of them spent the $5 on the film. So maybe I'm in the minority.




If the business model sounds familiar, it's somewhat similar to Brandon Semenuk and Rupert Walker's 2015 project Revel in the Chaos. It's still available for $6 on iTunes and elsewhere. But Brandon and Rupert went through more traditional distribution channels, and still worked with sponsors to fund some of the production. Today, a lot of top riders wouldn't have the luxury of that production budget.

In contrast, Nathan and Christian have taken a more direct path—they had a lot less support, but they get to keep a lot more of the money. I know my $5 went directly to them, and that made it an even easier choice for me.





So, should riders focus on long-term edits more than they are right now? Do you want to see a long-form Kade Edwards project? Am I just an old guy yelling at the kids on my lawn? Do I have a rose-coloured memory of 2010?

Are you willing to pay for a major ~8 minute video part from a top rider? One they worked on for a year or two on and put their bodies on the line for?

And if so, how much?


How much would you pay for an amazing video part?



Posted In:
Stories Videos Polls



221 Comments

  • 198 10
 I think most people on here would pay upwards of 10$ for a part two grim donut video
  • 168 6
 It's dropping Wednesday for $0 but feel free to send us some money.
  • 29 0
 @brianpark: Wow, that was quick. ;-)
  • 2 1
 @brianpark: the Bike World won't even believe it!
  • 11 0
 @brianpark: I'll believe it when I see it. Tease!
  • 8 0
 @brianpark: NO, no you don't. Don't you tease me again, You bring it. You bring it or you get the F#%k out forever!
  • 43 2
 I take e-transfers, venmos, and instagram followers.
  • 1 0
 @itsonlyaname616: fasten your seatbelt amigo
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: I already did, and its my favorite shirt.
  • 2 0
 @audric: I'm not holding my breath, that's for sure.
  • 16 1
 At this point does anyone even care anymore? Yes the crazy geo is interesting but they’ve strung this out way too long in my opinion
  • 1 0
 @605endurbro: I certainly do not, I’m not sure anyone needs a HTA shallower than 63...but I’m still riding an XL bike with 475mm of reach...so what do I know?
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: how dare you spoil the release date. I was looking forward to eventually seeing pt. 2 surprise me on the home page
  • 21 0
 @vtracer: he didn't say which Wednesday
  • 5 0
 @brianpark: *has to double check calendar to make sure April 1st isn’t on wednesday*....
  • 12 0
 @brianpark: Does it have an onlyfans?
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: long term review on Thursday?
  • 1 0
 @jasonlucas: ho! You're the one singing in ifht band!? That's you!! Take my money!
  • 2 1
 @brianpark: OK How much do you want?
  • 1 0
 They needed time to prepare the bike industry for the properly slack hta they need for 2022 models.
  • 1 0
 @605endurbro: We care.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Does it have Lycra?
  • 110 5
 Set that shit up with Apple pay so I can pay with a click of a button & I'm in...taking my CC out of my wallet is alot of effort...Hell, finding my wallet is a lot of effort.
  • 13 0
 What’s a wallet?
  • 6 0
 For that matter, put it on the Apple Store or on the front page of YouTube and you'll be surprised who ends up biting. I was surprised by a number of friends who ended up watching Not Bad even though they had no interest in mountain bikes, just found it while searching for some decent entertainment.
  • 59 0
 @Samuel-L-Jackson:

It’s the one that says Bad Mother F*#ker
  • 8 2
 @Samuel-L-Jackson: the one that says "bad motherf*cker" on it, of course.
  • 10 0
 @mitchgulliver its so true! I've been down the youtube rabbit hole while laying in bed watching Indian men build underground swimming pools because the content is free. There have been times when I wanted to watch bike related content, or even buy parts online but I didn't bother because my bed was warm and my wallet was downstairs.
  • 1 0
 So, so, so, so listen up, 'cause you can't say nothin' You'll shut me down with a push of your button But, yo, I'm out and I'm gone I'll tell you now, I keep it on and on 'Cause what you see, you might not get And we can bet, so don't you get souped yet Scheming on a thing, that's a mirage
  • 1 0
 @Samuel-L-Jackson: This dudes user name checks out-
--reach in the bag...
  • 86 3
 I would pay $5-10 for a feature between 30-60 minutes that was filmed professionally that I'm interested in. The caveat that there needs to be some semblance of a story for me to be interested. The Moment was great. North of Nightfall was good. An 8 minute shreddit? Pass.
  • 11 3
 I agree. Entertainment is entertainment. I would love more videos with an actual story. Insane riding is not enough to get me to pay. That said, there are clearly other ways to get paid if you make videos - you just need to make it appeal to people who aren’t into bikes. If my kids want to watch it, then it’s a good video. Fabio always scores highly in that regard, and he’s getting paid from free videos.
  • 22 1
 Different strokes for different folks. I’d much rather pay $5 for a shorter film full of bangers then any version of the terrible ‘storyline’ movies that have come out in the last 10 years. How many times can you hear narration trying to sound profound when it’s the same recycled take on how the athlete is either having a ‘spiritual experience’, ‘artistic expression’, or how their athletic pursuit makes them different than the average person?

I don’t want to watch 25 minutes of ‘epic’ nature lifestyle shots just to see the few shots of the actual high level riding. If I want that I’ll go watch Planet Earth. Bike, ski, snowboard, surf, etc videos should be about displaying the activity in my opinion.

Caveat, The Moment was great, but it was a documentary about the birth of the sport so really a different type of film with its own spot.
  • 5 1
 @dungeonbeast: I agree with you too. I don't call an athlete talking about himself for ten minutes from four different camera angles a story. I mean an actual story, where cool stuff happens and it's like, acting.
  • 3 1
 @dungeonbeast: Based on your reply I'm guessing you're also not a fan of foreplay?

Just kidding. Sort of.
  • 9 0
 @jaredmh: less foreplay, more time to ride my bike Wink
  • 6 0
 @jaredmh: who needs foreplay, just squirt a bit of lube on (your chain) and get with the riding!
  • 12 0
 @dungeonbeast: With you on that. The narration on Return To Earth was cringeworthy both for its content and how trite that general theme as become.

What might worse, though, is rock climbing videos where angsty 25 years old crow about how "society just doesn't understand what it means to truly passionate about something"

Also, dammit, get off my lawn.
  • 13 0
 It was features like the anthill films and kranked series that helped fuel my passion for the sport and i didnt mind paying $20 -$30 for them. Dont know if single clips would have the same impact. Would like to see a resurgence in the films with segments featuring great riders, locations, and music but it seems im in the old school minority there.
  • 2 0
 @Krotchy: agreed
  • 2 0
 @Krotchy: exactly this for me too. I don’t need a story line just lots of awesome riding that lasts so long that watching becomes an experience. Different songs, riders and locations are all that’s needed for a new chapter and flavor. Pure stoke!
  • 2 1
 @unrooted: If their was a solution to not needing to Lube it up first?
You would think that their would be some interest in that Idea?
  • 1 0
 What of YouTube revenue?
  • 1 0
 I wish my chain would secrete lube from inside the rollers just by me tweaking my dials, touching the frame all over and saying nice things to it for 20 minutes.
  • 78 2
 brb...gotta register OnlyMTBFans.com...
  • 71 3
 After watching the outtakes I'd give whatever it takes for them to get a helmet...
  • 42 4
 it'd be different if there wasn't an overwhelming amount of free content. sure it might not be exactly from your #1 rider, but free is free.
  • 4 1
 What's that idiom about milk and cows?
  • 7 0
 Also, there are lots of riders who are not pro, but make great content just to share their love.
  • 1 0
 @MattyBoyR6: I think he meant: “shade in the summer, milk in the winter”
  • 3 0
 Agreed, just like free porn sites.
  • 43 14
 Did you see how much bitching and moaning you guys induced by asking people to pay $1.50 for trailforks? According to that Vital survey, the average cost of a new bike is north of $4000, and more than half or people surveyed intend to buy a new bike in the next year; but ask people to pay for riding, or information, or entertainment, or coaching, and they'll have the internet pitchforks out in a heartbeat.

Fact is we're such entitled shits that asking people to pay for almost anything is just going to make them mad.
  • 12 3
 totally different situations man...
  • 22 1
 Only one of the things you listed is required for riding bikes: a bike.
  • 8 10
 @HaggeredShins: How much trail work do you do in a typical year? How much do you give to your trail association?
  • 3 0
 But isn't part of it that we know mtbing has high upfront costs and relatively low costs from then onwards. Sports like golf can be much cheaper to begin with but you know every round you play is going to be quite pricey. A lot of us started out riding in some random woods with our friends and it cost us nothing, I guess you get used to it.
  • 13 2
 @Weens: Let's see... I'm 32 and I've been in this sport since I was 13 or so, mostly BMX. I've built skateparks, worked with local government to permit bikes in skateparks, built dirt jumps, built trails, mentored kids, worked events, been on the street team for local shops, represented collegiate clubs, mechanic for over 10 years (including working for free & weekends after I earned my degrees) just to scratch the surface. I live on a property with my own trails.

What have you done? No offense, you just come off that way.
  • 20 0
 I dunno, man. I feel like we're already paying a pro tax when we buy a bike as a retail customer. So if I have to pay to watch Semenuk's video, does that mean that Trek will stop paying him and pass the savings on to me? Not to pick on Semenuk, but you know, he's a pro who makes great videos and I know who he rides for. Could be anyone. To me, I think the current model is the right way - big box brands pay the pros to generate publicity. You start charging me, I start watching a whole lot less and a whole lot more selectively, and then the big box brand is not getting the publicity that their paid pros are supposed to generate.

But anyhow, the MTB'ers around me constantly cut down fences that the land managers put up to block illegal trails - so you're right, we are entitled shits.
  • 6 0
 Fact is we're such entitled shits that asking people to pay for almost anything is just going to make them mad

That's the problem. You're being "asked" to pay for something that has a million free alternatives. People will pay for feature films sometimes. The number that don't and wait till it's free should tell you everything you need to know about charging for clips.
  • 1 4
 @HaggeredShins: Before the rona of course, I spent 3-400 hours a year building and maintaining since the mid 80s. Pretty much all the trails in my area have some of my sweat or blood in the track.

Do I just come off that way because I asked? Because I expect people to chip in?

Point I was trying to make is a lot of us entitled shits think everything but the bike is and should be free. It costs probably $10k a mile to build trail, but ask anyone to chip in and see what happens.
People complain that videos are glorified ads.. well who do you think is paying for them?
  • 5 3
 @Weens: I get your point, but its not realistic. If you build trails as much as you claim (I'm in no way doubting you) then shouldn't you get pleasure in people riding them, not some expectation that they "chip in" or give you recognition? You know that won't happen.

Not saying its good/bad or right/wrong, but I've very rarely encountered this kind of attitude with people I've worked with to support the cycling community. The vast majority of folks I've had the opportunity to work with don't expect anything in return for their contributions, unless its literally a paid job. Watching people have fun on my hard work has always been payment enough for me, especially with building. To each his or her own.
  • 3 3
 @HaggeredShins: Not asking for recognition or anything else. I do very much believe in "no dig, no ride". In 1995 most people I met wouldn't have publicly admitted they rode but didn't show up to a work day a couple times a year; but then again, there weren't many riders back then and we all knew each other. The last time pinkbike did a poll on trailwork, the majority answered "don't dig, no interest in doing so". That, to me, is shocking. Shocking that people will admit to that

you yourself said "a bike is the only thing you need to ride" - that's bullshit. You need trails.

You mentioned BMX - the town I grew up in had to shut down it's bmx track because insurance got too expensive and no one would donate to the fund (I'm sure it didn't help that you'd see an ambulance parked on the course most weekends). The bmx track where I lived after that was [to my understanding] entirely funded with race fees because that's the only thing they could get people to pay for, despite being open to everyone all the time.
  • 7 0
 4 videos a week at $5 is a set of titanium cranks in a year. That’s more than I spend in season pass, gas and food for park season. I know I’d rather spend my money on me riding, not watching others riding.
  • 4 2
 @Weens: lmao "no dig no ride" and "not asking for recognition or anything else" are completely mutually exclusive. Which is it gonna be? You said you expect people to chip in two posts up.

No dig no ride spots aren't public trails--you don't ask people to donate for them, advertise them, and put them on Trail Forks. No trail association is building public trails with that kind of expectation. Not one. If you expect people to chip in then open a private bike park. If you want to expand trail systems for the community's sake do so without expecting anything in return. Charity isn't charity when you want something back.

And don't be so hyperbolic about the all you need is a bike comment--its as true as its ever been, particularity in the context of your original post which is now way off on its own tangent. There are bike parks, tons of tax dollar trails accessible to bikes, and asking permission + chucking dirt is free.
  • 3 2
 @HaggeredShins: ok, since you've worked with every trail association in the world and can speak for them... The six I've worked with all... maybe expectation is too strong a word, but certainly implied that riders should be members and members should pitch in about 20 hours a year. I've never heard of a trail assocation that didn't have this expectation. No one.
Talk about 'tons of tax dollar trails' is west coast stupidity. In most of the US 100% of trails are built and maintained by volunteers - there's hardly such thing as a tax dollar trail most places.

the all you need is a bike comment is as true as ever - which is to say not at all. You think you're entitled to the work of others is the fact here.
  • 3 1
 @Weens: Quite frankly if that's what you want to attribute to me, someone who has given a lot to cycling, tough to imagine what you think of the person who just wants to show up and ride casually without giving back. Your efforts are obviously appreciated by many riders, whether or not you'll hear about it.

Might be time for some reflection about what you're really looking for out of your hard work. Seems like a mighty chip you got there as a result.
  • 3 1
 This is the difference between mainstream and underground... Doin it for the ride not the attention.
  • 2 0
 @drunknride: Spot on mate... I do a lot of work in my local industry and learned a long time ago that People are such cheap asses that if you want to make money don't depend on selling anything to this community. They will spend hundreds and or thousands on bike stuff but will cry about $10 bucks all day...
  • 1 0
 @DC1988: That's what I tell my wife too. "Yeah Honey, I know this bike costs $4000, but there's no possible way I'll spend a penny more on gear, replacement parts and bike trips...and definitely not another brand new bike next year"
  • 25 0
 A large portion of the video content we see is already paid for in some way through companies advertising their brand. I would be willing to pay for content if I could see where the money goes. I am interested in funding individuals who make independent content on their own with out a sponsor or at least knowing what the sponsors contribution was before I put my money down.
  • 20 1
 I'll pay for something like Death Grip...but not Sam Pilgrim fitting new brakes with a sledgehammer.
  • 13 1
 Yeah, or deakinator being obnoxious as usual.
  • 15 0
 'Back in my day' you had no option but to pay for your videos. Getting your mates over to watch the latest NWD, Sprung or Earthed that had just been delivered that morning was totally normal.
It was usually what, 10-15gbp for a 40 minute video? We're just spoiled for content these days.
I'll be honest, whenever the boys come round for a beer it's still those old classics that get slid into the DVD, or even cassette player and we still enjoy them.

Unfortunately the market has changed and the trend for free-access sponsored content is not going to go away any time soon.
  • 2 0
 All my videos were free with MBUK or MBR, those were the days...
  • 5 0
 All those YouTube ads means that it’s not free...
  • 1 0
 @unrooted: thats why I said free-access sponsored content.
  • 1 0
 If its quality movies like those or where the trail ends, seasons, or edits like the ones from calvin huth or aaron laroque etc then okay, i will buy them ... but i cant see myself paying for just another shredit with medium cut and shitty music thats just here to show me how bad i ride ^^
  • 1 0
 @Stokedonthis: +1 Just too many shredits out there. The good old DVD days just had a different aura to them, those films actually got you stoked to ride. Nowadays anything beyond 5 minutes is considered too long for anyone to sit through...
  • 10 0
 However good a riding film is that I've seen, I'm not sure any of them have really made me think I would want to spend much of my hard earned cash on. I did pay for Won't Back Down, great film (more of a documentary really) and it was well worth it but I guess I liked the fact it was so much more than riding.
  • 4 1
 Agreed. There has to be a story.
  • 2 0
 It’s somehow got to be different from the hundreds of others I’ve already seen. Also, it needs to hook me right away. At least half the free videos I watch get turned off 25% of the way in because there hasn’t even been any riding. There’s just too much other stuff to look at to waste time watching the same old thing.
  • 2 0
 yep. don't forget "Rad." Academy award sh*t there bro.
Smile
Seriously though, how many whips have we seen over the last decade, and slopestyle is a whole lot like diving on a bike now- granted, the risks are nutty and the skills are cray cray. but 95% of bike vids is stuff that 95% of us have seen over and over and over. every once in a while there's a gem with something new or presented in a spectacular way, but most stuff? seen it before. a lot.
  • 3 0
 @ranke:
I guess it's a bit like an oppo spin/whip/barspin, it may be technically very difficult compared to standard but it still looks the same to me.
  • 12 0
 Bought the Nathan William's video and it was fuckin awesome. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch!
  • 9 0
 Based on the title I thought the article was about paying a pro to dress like me and ride my bike so I could record it and say it was me. That would be worth somethingSmile
  • 8 0
 I'm a fan of the 30-60 minute videos like Roam and New World Disorder. I'm willing to fork over ~$20 for a well put together film rather than a few bucks for an 8-minute shredit.
  • 6 0
 if it was nothing but riding hard doing awesome stuff and not eating breakfast driving to the trail climbing up a hill putting on goggles telling recap stories with 5 second clips of said story bull shit, I would pay. Also I pretty sure semenuk has always had nicer cars than I have ever had, so I don't think he would want mine.
  • 5 1
 Don’t forget making a coffee and tying the shoe laces in slow mo.
  • 2 0
 Lol, too true. When people say they want a story, that’s not what they mean!
  • 8 0
 I'm sure most of us never complained about buying Where the Trail Ends and Life Cycles dvds. Whats the big deal about paying for a digital download?
  • 9 1
 its a conversation about quality vs quantity vs cost - im not paying anything for a 3 minute web edit - i will happily pay for a well produced 25minute -1hour piece of content
  • 1 0
 full length not equal brand promo short clip;
  • 2 0
 @laxguy: I am with you on the quality over quantity. For a single video part, I am not interested. But for a full production like Strength in Numbers or what we see out of the ski industry every year from TGR and Matchstick, I will gladly pay the $10-15 for an awesome film.
  • 1 0
 Finally the comment I was looking for! Id also pay for edits or a collection of those when they are of the quality of dean tennant
+ aaron laroque videos ... but not for the good riding+bad filmin/editing/music stuff that is uploaded here regularly
  • 1 0
 Also: Seasons ... id buy that in the collectors gold box to put it on my mtb shrine
  • 4 0
 I would consider paying some amount, depending on the size of part/film. I bought Cult's It's Later Than You Think and loved it. I've watched different rider's segments from it a few times since watching it all the way through. I appreciated that release because they gave you the actual video file to download. Half of the fun is revisiting parts after some time. I popped in an older NWD the other day I have on DVD and loved it...
  • 5 1
 Pay for someone vlogging that they are living the dream, or vlogging about new bikes they are given. Naa. Pay for a full production hard copy that I keep forever. Maybe. Content isn't valued the same anymore, when early mtb dvds were released there wasn't a thousand vloggers covering the same event/area/park. Content was worth money because there wasnt much of it. It was mind blowing to even see the pros riding. Now they are ten a penny. There is so much throw away content going on for free that i dont need to pay, Il just watch something else. The vlogception that happend at the start gate of the Audi nines was funny as hell, "your in my vlog" "I'm vlogging in your vlog" "here's my vlog of you vlogging in my vlog" YouTube and saliva catchers (gopro) is to blame for all of it. If you can't make money being a pro rider on YouTube then maybe your in the wrong game.
  • 4 0
 I would happily pay 20€ for an earthed 6 or even better Sprung 6 Video made by Alex Rankin 60-90 minutes of pure badass cycling skills, filmed the Rankin way not to mention the Rankin sound, which was always inspiring!

A pity that he moved over to the MX crowd. But fair enough, I understand that he wants to earn money, maybe he is personally into MX, I don‘t know.
  • 4 0
 For me, it's a no. I love mountain biking, but not enough to pay to watch someone do it for ~8 mins. If we're talking a full-length film that's a different matter (hell, I spent a small fortune on Collective/NWD/Kranked DVDs back in the day) but then I don't think that kind of thing holds many people's interests nowadays.

This feels like part of a much bigger discussion though - Does anybody doing anything off their own backs DESERVE to be paid for it? On one hand, yes, you've put in a tonne of effort and should be able to reap the rewards of it. On the other hand, the world doesn't owe you anything and just because you've put in blood, sweat and tears doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be any good, meaning people might just not care about it enough to pay for it.
If you view MTB films like any other commodity, rather than as part of the an MTB lifestyle that people like to buy into, then it really only makes sense that it follows the same model of any other type of goods or service. Take the risk and put it out there - if it's good it'll sell.

Best of luck to them for trying - it'd be cool if it worked, but unless everyone stops making videos on youtube and posting their content for free all over social media I really don't think it will.
  • 1 0
 Totally agree, bit something with a a story can work. Think roadfools, I love my bicycle (fbm) or on a completely different tac Endless Summer. Probably the first "alternative" sport video / movie? Something along that line I would pay for not just another shreadit
  • 4 1
 I'm old enough to have purchased some of the early Freeride Entertainment New World Disorder vids on VHS and then later DVD. If you wanted content that was largely how you got it pre YouTube, TV DVR , social media etc. I was totally fine paying back then and wore those tapes out but now things have changed and there is just too much content out there and too many content producers.

We all "should" pay. Especially for stuff with high production value like 'From The Ash' and many Semenuk vids but unless everyone that is producing content agrees to mount a united front and MAKE us all pay for content ( impossible) it will never change.
  • 3 0
 I'm perfectly willing to pay $10 for a 60 minute "Moto" movie or a professionally done mtb-equivalent, but an 8-minute shredit is just not worth pulling out the wallet for. I have gone back to rewatch Moto movies countless times, but I just can't imagine the same happening with a short shredit, especially with the plethora of free online content available these days.
  • 3 0
 I'd pay for better race coverage, XC, EWS and DH. To me, people competing against the clock, knowing they are on the spot and doing their personal best, is so much better than watching a few seconds of riding that needed a purpose built feature and days of practice to pull off.
  • 6 0
 I'm also not likely to pay for Trail Forks.
  • 3 1
 I can vividly remember going over to watch Roam and The Collective at a friend’s apartment before riding our dirt jumpers around campus. I remember setting up viewing parties for NWD 9 and 10. Running home to watch my copy that the shop had just got in, bringing it back the next shift to let the shop play it on the looped tv. Having on in the background when the ladies stopped by the apartment and asking “that’s what you do?” (Yes, but no).

But somewhere after Strength In Numbers, edits made their rise as cell phones and good inexpensive cameras came out. Look at nowadays when anyone with a friend with a drone and some basic phone editing software can be a star.

Add on top that @pinkbike did it to themselves by making the few good paid movies free from time to time and theirs no reason to go back. Remembered fondly.
  • 3 0
 Any rider can upload to apple store / amz not to the YouTube;
I do not see point of paying for the advertisement videos ( promo of brand); however will easily purchase full length action sport movie
  • 4 2
 I’m just here to be cranky and say that POV- really especially this: go pro, home “edits”, sick footy. 90% of it is pure trash and a scourge on bike and ski videos ever. No one wants to see your cruddy POV with no concept for what the trail looks like or how much you stink. Ditto goes for your sick review on YouTube.

Ok old man shouts at cloud goes back inside.
  • 2 0
 I would if it was made by Caldwell. Most other MTB video content I don't care for, if I want to see nice nature shots I'll watch Planet Earth or Blue Planet. Most editing/filming of the best MTB riders is horrible unfortunately, somehow many years ago the idea cemented in many people's heads that you shouldn't just straightforwardly showcase the riding, and we for the most part get slow mo berm roosts, sped up footage, cut off landings, etc. filmed with Red cameras. Not really sure who still gets psyched on that. When I want to get psyched to ride MTB I watch skate or BMX videos. It's obviously very hard to do MTB riding justice compare to those other sports due to how difficult it is to show how steep things are, nuances of runups/runouts, etc., but I'd like to see more effort and creativity go into figuring out how to show that off than just making the same slow mo nature doc film over and over.
  • 2 0
 As many have said, I'll happily pay $10-20 for a 60-90 minute real film. I love films with a story that isn't too sappy (ex. Seasons) and those more focused on riding only (ex. NWD series). There's no way I'm paying for a 5-8 minute video when the rider's already paid by their sponsor to advertise for them and the bikes they sell are priced high enough to pay that advertising budget - that's just the consumer paying twice.
  • 2 0
 We are part of industry which using us riders to finance their business.
We have fun and by buying bikes, vacations, race entry fee, apparel, casual clothing, photography, communication and a lot of other crap which as a by product we support the transport industry. financing this industry well enough.
what do we get in return? FUN. a lot of FUN.
what do the industry should do in return? finance events, sponsor riders and develop new products.
and media (you guys) should keep feeding us riders information which motivate us to keep us investing in the industry we are part of.

there is a limit to the expanses a rider will spend, i am personally leaving every entity which suddenly for their good reason stat charging for a service used to be free. for example trailfork.
  • 2 0
 We, the public who buy all the mtb products, have already paid for these films. They are marketing by the sponsors through the riders that is all funded by the customers. I don’t want to pay twice to watch marketing adverts
  • 6 0
 www.MTBonlyfans.com
  • 1 0
 Lol I hate that I Just clicked on that link. Well done
  • 6 1
 I mean, that's essentially what a lot of YouTube folks have with their Patreons. It's essentially buying a connection somewhere between consumption of videos and actual friendship.
  • 2 0
 Thinking of all the crazy video premieres at Interbike and Sea Otter. There was something magical about seeing a bangin' video part with hundreds of amped-up fans and athletes. Ahh, those were the days.
  • 2 0
 It is part of why going to a premiere is so fun. Ski movies in fall with a crowd of drunk skiers getting amped for snow season is a pretty special energy.
  • 3 0
 Insane talent, but there is already a huge amount of brand sponsored content out there for free. I get that its not quite the same, but ya know, its free.
  • 1 0
 I am one of those folks that does a few different sports. That said I do them for me. Im not that interested in other people doing them, racing etc.
I do like a good short edit - maybe 10 mins and enjoyed a couple of longer ones in the last 8 years or so. I loved the Sprung series but thats because I personally related to it, it had my mates in (And me loitering) and was on my home turf.
In a nut shell, how many times can you watch someone do a mega forward backward sideward no hander no footer no biker to manual landing. It kinda gets a bit uninteresting after 5 mins or so. Especially if its at some jump spot. I need scenery. I need music. I need constant engagement. Something Danny M does very well in his clips. And they are a good length too.
Also, we are in smart phone time. I don't own a computer. I cant watch long vids on a phone.
  • 2 1
 Totally good point. I like doing them, not watching other people doing them. I love football but there’s no way in hell I’m going to pay to watch someone else pay it on tv!
  • 7 2
 Get some helmets first, then I would maybe rethink about paying.
  • 1 0
 I've bought the odd video or two and did join the crowdfunding for The Moment, film was good, t-shirt was nice, Dakine gloves were 'ok' but didn't last long. Probably watched the film twice for the however many $ it cost me. I think we're spoilt most of the time with the amount of quality, free content that we get, that when we're asked to pay for something, we're all WTF, pay with MY actual money to watch a video?
  • 1 0
 10 - 15 years ago I joked about having to pay for each F1 race, having to pay on top of your monthly subscription for "content" on the web or over a streaming service. Now its a lamentable reality. I will always pay for quality products and services but its getting too much no. Prett in my city are offering coffee subscriptions......Too far.
  • 1 0
 I think there are only a handful of riders I would pay for an edit from. Think only very unique riders, with a really strong fan bases could swing it. There are probably more bmx'ers i would pay to watch than mtb guys. That said, i would pay money for longer bmx style team videos from mtb brands. Get riders from different disciplines, throw them in a van. do a bike park tour or something. With so few races happening this year, kind of a bummer more of this didnt happen. Less vlogs, less wanna be cinematic master pieces, more raw riding and good soundtracks.
  • 1 0
 I would pay for a video that features the rider on a trail that is not specifically built for a segment and does not involve continuous shots of being in the air. My favorite videos have always been ones featuring ultra talented riders riding everyday trails (relatively speaking), but what sets them apart is how they ride the trail vs myself or other ordinary rider. Think of Remy Metailler in his shred it video in Squamish or anything pretty much Simmons has done, etc. Ultra talented riders on trails that lots of people ride. in the same vain I am interested in seeing riders using their talent to conquer a piece of terrain, not a shovel and a build crew.
  • 1 0
 Never. I remember going to movie theaters and paying money to see the great freeride movies around 15 years ago and that was fun cause lots of friends were there and they had raffles. I miss that and might do that againsomeday but I'm just not that into watching edits anymore and there is so much free stuff to watch. And for me YouTube is more exhausting than exciting.
  • 1 0
 I used to buy DVDs without them tracking my data. I'd still buy them if they were still being released. A typical DVD was somewhere between 40 and 60 minutes for between twenty and thirty euros. So between three and five euros for eight minutes seems just right.
  • 1 0
 I'm not sure about a paid-per-service video setup, but you can bet your ass that if someone like Seths Bike Hacks or The Loam Ranger or whoever (and I'm sure this would work with pros too- Sam Pilgrim, etc) set up a Pateron or something, I'm confident they would get funded.
  • 4 0
 It’s totally fair...this guy will need that $$$$ for the hip,knee,back,wrist,etc replacements.
  • 1 0
 You-tube premium is set up for pretty much this scenario. Either watch ads on the free version, or pay the subscription fee. If the content's good enough, it will make money. The problem is you don't know how good something is until you've watched it. I think the last action sport movie I paid for was Travis Rice The Fourth Phase because the trailer looked amazing, and it was self indulgent garbage. With so much good stuff available on you-tube for free, it really has to be mind blowing and it's becoming harder and harder to blow minds, so people are skeptical about paying for things. Subscription models help resolve some of these market reactions to disappointments by providing a larger catalog.
  • 3 1
 "$0, I'll wait until someone leaks it, at least I'm honest"

Bullshit excuse. Should have left that choice out, since it legitimatizes theft. Admitting to stealing something still means you f*cking stole it.
  • 1 0
 LMAO! Everyone has to be a movie star these day! Fukem, i need bike parts, bike and snowboard trips for my own fulfillment of activity's and experiences, that render tangible gratification; than to pay someone for a forgotten moment that passes within seconds after watching 98.99% of content available.
  • 1 0
 Media is hard because there is soooo much free content out there. Now, setup a premiere with some give-a-ways, food and drink and charge whatever for a ticket and I'm all in. I don't really pay for things when I'm blowing farts into the couch at home. Get me out of the house and I'll spend.
  • 1 0
 I would pay 10$ for a super long a boring video of wc dh insider stuff, suspension settings, tire pressures, little tricks that mechanics have, wheelbuilding tech, etc etc, tech talk, but not the typical"fast rebound make bike go boing boing" type of "tech videos".

inb4: "their suspension settings are useless to you because they fastbois and you snailboi"
  • 3 0
 Back in the day I gladly spent my Lawn Mowing money on VHS skate videos..... Rodney Mullen Vs Daewon Song? I still have a VCR just for that video.....
  • 1 0
 If it is a professional filmed video created specifically for entertaining, I can see paying for it. However, it is a tough sell when so much free content. Also, the majority of videos are publicity to promote products or brands, so in some videos it would be like paying for commercials.
  • 3 0
 You kidding? The industry got way out of hand with everything related to bikes. I barely have money to buy parts for my bike. Let alone buying videos.
  • 1 0
 I would pay for a video of a rider I like, but would depend on the length and the production value of it. For a 2 minute riding edit I may not. But for something over 20 minutes with interviews, different riding locations and some production, I would pay $15 or more.
  • 3 0
 I think anything that gives money directly to the humans riding the bikes and out of the hands of bike companies is a great idea.
  • 2 0
 What ever happened to being mind blown and inspired by watching the best of the best simply riding a bike really ****in’ well?

Oh... it’s not relateable.

I guess that depends on your aspirations?
  • 1 0
 Other: If I knew it went to the rider directly, maybe. But really, aren’t most of these edits ads? Even if they aren’t ads specifically, we still know what they’re riding and repping, and it is an influence. Why change it! #FreePinkbikeForever
  • 1 0
 Rather than rely on us paying for single production pieces, what if there was a focus on putting mountain bike content on platforms like netflix and Hulu?

Better yet, what if Pinkbike had it's own bike centric streaming service for $5 a month or something? With a slick app that worked like any other streaming service? That would give independent bike video producers an outlet for short films and series that caters directly to their needs through the largest online mountain bike community in existence.

www.pinkbike.tv @radek @bentomas @canadaka ???
  • 1 0
 I very strongly disagree with the statement that "There are only 10 great edits a year", the entire issue with this discussion is that there are about 2-3 edits per WEEK that are of equal or higher quality than the best stuff from 2010.

One thing I am a bit surprised about is that more MTB long forms didn't come to Netflix after Deathgrip, I assumed that would open the floodgates...
  • 1 0
 Who's stopping anyone from charging money for videos? I ask because I just don't know.. I've got maybe over $100 worth of bmx videos from when i use to ride little bikes so when did that change. If people are willing to pay then they'll pay... no sense in making a post about it to enrage sensitive people.
  • 1 0
 I would happily shell out some hard-earned for a for a full-length feature film (40-60mins) and occasionally still do but so few of these are released now, everything is available for free on the internet so I can see why they aren't being made much anymore which is a shame!
Not sure how I feel about handing over cash for a short edit of less than 10mins, I voted that I would pay $5 but honestly this would need to be for something special!
  • 1 0
 Feels like going full circle, bear with me because I'm old AF, but back-in-the-day if you wanted to watch some MTB footage you paid £25 and waited a week for your 'Roam' DVD to arrive from Canada. Then a couple of years later you might pay £10 to buy 'Follow Me' on iTunes.

There were other great film makers, but I really liked the Collective / Anthill stuff.

It wasn't long after that they said there wasn't enough money in pay-to-view to make cool MTB films anymore, so they looked for Sponsors and put them out monetised on YouTube.

I would pay for great MTB films again, but I don't know if it would work, it's hard to judge quality of content even with trailers and with everyone having 4K Gopros, Drones and an endless line-up of top riders willing to send it for exposure - how are film makers going to find something new and fresh to make.

A story would actually help, if they didn't just put out the usual chat.
  • 1 0
 I pay to go watch teton gravity films in theater. I pay for netflix, youtube, hulu, and amazon. Get one of them to sponsor the film and i'll definitely watch it on there. Amazon recently had some of the bike films. I hope they got a lot of traffic so maybe amazon will sponsor something going forward.
  • 1 0
 Ill probably never pay for a single video part. But I do miss shorter banger videos that get you pumped to ride. If some of the dj/slope/freeride guys put together a 20 min video that was all killer no filler I'd buy that.
  • 2 0
 Just didn't get what they were really promoting, aside from NOT being a role model of wearing helmets & safety gear for kids.
  • 5 0
 Bring back NWD
  • 2 2
 Nah, the game has changed. I haven't looked too deep into the industry, but more often than not, film-worthy riding often catches the attention of big brands that pay for endorsement deals (Casey Brown w/ Chevy, Clif; Tahnee with MucOff and Fox) on their personal social media accounts. Big MTB YouTubers collected ad revenue. Those income streams weren't available in the years you had to pay for a 45-minute movie, and it doesn't take long - as a viewer - to pull together 8 minutes of unreal shred footage. Viewers aren't required to pay for content, creators still get paid, win win.
  • 2 2
 Funding media/marketing content is the company(ies) benefiting from the exposures responsibility, IMO. If no sponsors are in the equation then video making is a hobby that you may need to be prepared to foot the bill for yourself.
  • 1 0
 If the money spent got me a 30+ minute video with outtakes and behind the scenes information as well as rider interviews and that type of thing. Basically, if I have to pay I want to be able to settle in and watch for a bit!
  • 4 2
 Nope, only videos I watch are BCPov style video to see if I would like a particular trail. Much more enjoyable to watch someone with a similar skill level.
  • 3 0
 All the people here saying they need a story to watch an edit are the same people that need a story in their porn
  • 1 1
 Dudes on the video: “that was gnarly, but you should try it again!” “Yeah, I am” .......clank clank smack crash. “That was sick, but you should try it again!” Repeat until trick is mastered.

Me: clank clank smack crash. “F-that for now, where’s the bar?”

And that is the Difference between pros and mortals.
  • 1 0
 Thanks for including Why Not in this article and poll, turned out rad! Appreciate the good words! Hope to see more people try this out in the future! Looks like I need to do a MTB part : )
  • 1 0
 It all depends. For a movie like "JIB" I would pay 15$ easily. For a short edit like it's popular right now I'm not willing to pay. It doesn't matter how good a 100 second film is. It's just not a movie experience.
  • 1 1
 It's got to be more of a story or special and original, not another shreadit.

Road fools (has a story), Anthem, Electronical (both amazing), or documentary style (Unfold story of British Mountain biking, or I love my bicycle (FBM)).
  • 1 0
 It has been said before, “money for nothing and ... for free” the whole moneyfocus is wrong. Sure I live to see people having fun and showing off. But why that whole money thing?
  • 4 3
 Dude let's saturate the mtb media market and make it a viable source of income for impressive riders. Imagine the boost in creativity and progression of the sport.
  • 2 1
 lmao.... There is this thing called youtube
  • 3 0
 @shredjekyll: YouTube's algorithm rewards a certain type of video and if anything is limiting creators.
  • 1 0
 @SHEESHKAH: Exactly! It's sad to see. Patreon seems to work pretty well but just doesn't generate the same traffic, y'know?
  • 1 0
 @shredjekyll: Don't you get bored of seeing the same content over and over again on youtube and instagram?
  • 1 0
 @GotchaJimmy: There is only so much you can do relating to MTB. There is currently more good content than I even have time to consume.
  • 2 0
 @shredjekyll: I think the content could be better with a more reliable source of funding.
  • 2 0
 @GotchaJimmy: Funding always finds it's way to worthy causes. Plenty of MTB content creators are doing great, its just not for everyone.
  • 2 2
 95% of the sports related videos I watch are about products, how to's or at least interesting projects like berm peak. Whenever a sick edit pops up I might watch a minute or two but it's just not that relatable to me
  • 3 1
 I'd rather put their video clips on my website so I can monetize the impressions without paying for the content.
  • 2 1
 It depends on the rider. Remy burning down Whistler? Yup. An EWS pro death gripping down something for product promotion? Nope.
  • 1 0
 lol how are these different!?
  • 3 2
 I very, very rarely watch free bike related videos. I am HIGHLY unlikely to pay for one. I am just not interested in watching other people ride bicycles.
  • 1 2
 I remember dropping over $100 a year on snowboard videos back in the early 2000's. But before high speed internet that's all we had to watch. We're never going back. If someone's charging for their content there are 100 other riders I can watch instead.
  • 4 1
 How much do I need to pay for the US/Canadian border to open?
  • 3 0
 I would pay any rider $5 to wear a helmet.
  • 2 0
 I rarely watch bike videos because it angers me i'm not out riding. Same reason I don't watch XXX rated videos.
  • 2 0
 I’d give ‘em $5/yr if they’d also share their Trailforks pro password with me.
  • 2 2
 I'll be savin' my money for some chilli cheese fries. Couldn't care less about what "professional riders" are doing. Actually prefer the stuff that's more amateur and in the same ballpark as what I can do on my bike.
  • 1 0
 I paid for “Where the trail ends”.

But seriously, I’d pay just to finance those poor BMXers so they can finally buy and wear a helmet.
  • 1 0
 I won't pay any € for a part. But definitely give 15€ for a NWD, Kranked, Sprung (20€ for this one) or any race recap with a "moto" quality
  • 1 0
 I would pay some USD $ (and already did it, with "seasons" and other films) for a "long" video, but for a video of 8 or 10 minutes, i don't think so..
  • 1 0
 The real questions is, when will brands and riders actually start paying for the music the use in their videos. As far as I'm concerned that's step 1.
  • 2 1
 I don't think I would pay for the video, but maybe they could set up a OnlyFans account with bonus content?
  • 1 0
 Using speacially designed grips and seatposts, maybe...
  • 3 1
 I want to save money for parts so I can shred harder
  • 3 1
 If you got enough views, there will be some commercial...
  • 3 3
 Every film I’ve paid full price for ends up on red bull tv for free 6 months later...guess who doesn’t buy films anymore???
  • 1 0
 It's hard to pay for an edit given the sheer quantity off shreddits out there
  • 1 0
 Eddie Masters full feature!... just give the man a camera and hilarity and great riding would ensue.
  • 1 2
 there's just far too much free content out there at this point, I'm not gonna pay for any. maybe if rampage was put behind a paywall or something, but I'd probably just pirate it after anyway.
  • 1 0
 It seems like a good investment to wear a helmet?? That's abusive on ... everything. Esp ankles and tailbone.
  • 1 0
 pay directly for it, probably not, but get a subscription to whoever broadcasts it (amazon, netflix...) definitely.
  • 2 0
 I wouldn't pay for advertising which is what most edits are.
  • 1 0
 I honestly believe feature films are kind of dying due to the nature of social media and instant gratification.
  • 2 0
 No way
  • 1 1
 They will probably need it sometime in time for readaptation following an head trauma.
  • 3 2
 Absolutely not. Same as Facebook. Soon as they charge im done.
  • 4 0
 Just remember, if you aren’t paying for the product, you ARE the product.
  • 2 1
 You can give me 5 dollars and I will pretend I care
  • 1 0
 My ankles and wrists hurt so much watching this.
  • 3 1
 No, brands should pay
  • 1 0
 I'd potentially pay for a video but not for Trailforks.... wtf Pinkbike.
  • 1 0
 Revel model...but that only works for big time pros.
  • 1 0
 Yes I would pay, as long it is a movie or at least $1 per 5 min video.
  • 1 0
 I'd pay .. but less than 1$. I guess a lot of people would watch it then.
  • 1 0
 Maybe they needed the $5/video in order to buy themselves helmets.
  • 1 0
 Can we pay these guys to try a helmet? Ouch!
  • 1 0
 who the hell pays to watch some person ride a bike.
  • 1 0
 Based on the recent short clips a full on Kade project would be insanity.
  • 1 2
 their is enough FREE good content out there that I dont feel a need to pay anything.
  • 1 1
 Guess we just found this year's DARWIN AWARD winner....
  • 1 0
 Only Fans - MTB edition
  • 1 0
 $0... I'm poor
  • 1 2
 I mostly watch skate videos on the Thrasher channel.
  • 1 3
 Semenuk maybe, anyone else no
  • 2 4
 I'd pay for Seth's Berm Peak build videos Big Grin

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