Pinnit Cycles Shredmaster - The Armchair Engineer's Dream Is Now For Sale

Feb 14, 2023
by Matt Beer  
Pinnit Cycles

If you can’t find the bike of your dreams, then why not build it yourself? That’s exactly what Andi and Peter did with their Pinnit Cycles Shredmaster creation. In case you missed it, James Smurthwaite covered the full details on the first version back in January, 2021. Since then, the two-man team has tested a second version and are producing a batch of ten frames for sale under the title Pinnit Cycles.

Pinnit Cycles

Frame Details

The highlights of the German-made aluminum frame include a high-pivot Horst-Link that provides 205mm of travel from a custom-tuned EXT coil shock and is complete with a 6-speed Pinion gearbox. It can even hold a water bottle and run either a 27.5” or 29” rear wheel.

Pinnit speaks openly about the hurdles of designing a frame and the level of their building standards. After riding the first prototype for two years, a crack developed at the head tube and down tube junction. From there Pinnit revised the design and sent a frame off to the EFBE test lab in Waltrop, Germany. Those changes made to the downtube survived 100,000 cycles and passed the Category 5 Gravity Tri-Test, but then the chainstay failed.

Based on the data and feedback from the EFBE, the Shredmaster is undergoing a third revision involving intricate machining to the chainstay yoke. These newly designed chainstays will be ready in 2-4 weeks, which they feel confident will surpass the testing.

Further advancements and fine details of the second generation frame include angular roll bearings with improved sealing capabilities and an anodized rocker link with keyed hardware from Radoxx.

Pinnit Cycles

Pinnit Cycles
Pinnit Cycles

Pinnit Cycles





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Suspension Design

Even though the Shredmaster is a downhill bike, the anti-squat values for the full 29er start around 141% and drops to 110% at sag, which should provide a solid pedalling platform. Being a high-pivot design, Andi wanted to keep the braking forces somewhat neutral and preserve the geometry, so the anti-rise value is about 100% at sag.

A 31% progressive leverage ratio meets Pinnit’s requirements with a coil shock. That axle path moves a total of 23mm rearward due to the high pivot design and thanks to the idler placement, the chain growth is nearly zero, so pedal kickback isn’t an issue.

Pinnit Cycles
Pinnit Cycles



Pinnit Cycles

Geometry

In its first inception, the Shredmaster only existed in the XL size, but the team at Pinnit is now offering three frame sizes with reaches of 460, 480, and 500mm in length.

Two chainstay lengths are possible for either rear wheel diameter by way of two flip chips - one at the dropout to adjust the length, and another at the lower shock mount to compensate for the change in axle heights. In the full 29er mode, the two options are 440 or 450mm, and 6mm less for the 27.5" wheel.

Of course, the longer chainstays will change the leverage ratio slightly, but Andi has noted that. The longest rear center produces a 31.5% ratio, while the shortest bumps the progression up to 34%, as seen at the bottom of the geometry chart.




Availability

As for pricing, the aluminum, German-produced frame is not cheap, but it's not astronomical either. The base begins at €2,600, which doesn't include the gearbox. For that, there's the a choice of a Pinion or Effigear. Both of those include all of the necessary drivetrain components, like a tensioner, shifter, chainrings, and crank arms for an extra €950. The only shock option is EXT's Arma V3 that has been tuned in conjunction with SnurrTECH, Germany's EXT distributor, bringing the grand total up to €4,300.

Although Pinnit Cycles website is still under construction, the duo behind the brand ask anyone who is interested in pre-ordering a frame should reach out via their email address: info@pinnit-cycles.com or message Pinnit Cycles on Instagram.

This meme might be all that your marketing team needs, because there are only six pre-orders left at this time.



Author Info:
mattbeer avatar

Member since Mar 16, 2001
353 articles

180 Comments
  • 100 6
 I recall a number of years ago, all the hate that was slug at brands whos cables routed under the BB... Now we have an RD routed under the BB...
  • 43 2
 Ya, you better buy 10 extra of whatever part that is, and keep a couple in your pocket because, if my bash guard is any indication, that dangly bit is going to get wrecked every second ride.

At least it looks like it should just get pushed back.. but how many times can it realistically survive being smashed in a rock or log?
  • 25 4
 @dan23dan23 Yeah man. That thing looks like it's just waiting to get ripped off or smashed to bits. Seems a little strange to mount a derailleur where a bash guard would typically go.
  • 5 0
 I actually laughed out loud at your comment.
  • 8 0
 The title of the article says it all - arm chain engineer.
  • 5 2
 CT* under the BB
  • 5 0
 Wouldn't something like an SB One in the traditional position make WAY more sense??? Makes me think its mounted there for high pivots high kick back or something??? There HAS to be a reason they put it in the WORST place possible. (Apart from on the saddle, I guess that would be the only worser place....)
  • 1 0
 @islandforlife: i give it one hit and its gone.
  • 3 4
 If it already has a Pinion gearbox, I doubt they'd also add a derailleur. Looks like a chain tensioner like Roox had about twenty years ago. Were there issues with those back then? ACC was doing well regardless.

That said, if this is an armchair engineers bike then it makes total sense for us armchain engineers to comment on it.
  • 5 3
 @tmwjr777: it's not a derailleur, it's the chain tensioner for the effigear gearbox...
  • 4 1
 Chain is too long, shorten it, problem solved
  • 1 0
 Whilst.
  • 4 0
 Huck to flat video please! (with Benny Hill's tune in the background)
  • 5 6
 To all the doubters saying "the tensioner is awfully placed", I think you need to see
THIS
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPQAtYaFNoM


Think about all the weight removed from the rear wheel and placed pretty much in the ideal spot on the center of the bike, paired with a 30t chainring and a tensioner that tucks UP... We are talking the best Downhill drivetrain possible.

Also, @pinnit-cycles : I think it is key to make it work with a belt (chain has more mass, makes noise and is more prone to derailment)

And to finish, Pinion now has an electronic shifter (with paddles, none of that Grip-shift nonsense) If the bike had that, it would be the standard for all DH bikes in 5 years time, I t just makes so much sense.
  • 3 1
 @luckymixes: "ideal spot"??? now imagine that tensioner there, an then one rock strike, one log roll, one case
insertfacepalmemoji

but then, if people will buy into high pivot hype they'll believe anything.......
  • 2 2
 it's probably just a chain tensioner. they cost not much last time i checked
  • 6 0
 @flipoffthemonkeys: yeah, you only need to buy one every time you ride the bike
  • 2 0
 @naptime: you didn't watch the video I posted, did you?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPQAtYaFNoM

it has more ground clearance than a 36t ring, and the spring housing itself acts as a bashguard. Watch closely Time: 1m 11s
  • 6 0
 @naptime: www.instagram.com/p/CJ3J9D_B1nO With this tensioner design, I do think it is the perfect spot, wouldnt you agree?
  • 5 2
 @pinnit-cycles: great but WHY do a press release with that pic of it hanging down like that???
seems pretty silly to me.............
  • 5 0
 @luckymixes: if it was the best DH setup possible why don't we see them on world cup racers bikes?
  • 1 1
 @pinnit-cycles: Unfortunately images on instagram don't seem to work for me. Quite a hassle just to see an image. Either way, if you look at the earliest Commencal Supreme bikes, ACC had the Roox tensioner installed.

www.pinkbike.com/news/the-evolution-of-the-commencal-supreme.html

It was more horizontal and an obstacle would hit the rear wheel before it would hit the tensioner.

@naptime : I don't think this is a press release. This is an article. Press releases are written by the brand, this article is written by a PB editor (Matt Beer).
  • 1 0
 @flipoffthemonkeys: That's not really the point. 1) I don't like buying stuff 2) I get out rarely, so a ruined ride is a proper PITA.
  • 8 0
 @vinay: i uploaded the tensioner pic to Pinkbike, does this work for you?

www.pinkbike.com/photo/24217859

The horizontal Roox is more of a chainguide than a tensioner, since it cant compensate too much lengthening by rotating, i dont think it would be enough. On the Commencal i doenst have to do it, because the derailleur does this job.
  • 12 0
 @naptime: to be honest, i was just really happy when Matt contacted us for some more info about the new frame iteration, this wasnt really a well planned "press release". Lesson learned^^
  • 1 0
 @mhoshal: I would say that gearboxes are just recently getting good enough, and you have to basically build the frame around it, so it was too much of a commitment to make a whole bike everytime you produce a new iteration of the gearbox.

Other reasons could be:
A. Absence of good dedicated shifters (pinion runs on horrible grip shifters, but just now made an electronic version wich looks sooo good...)
B. Most gearboxes are not DH specific, they focus on 12 speed with huge range (600%) which a downhill bike does not need, thus making them heavy for no reason.

Also, there is one DH WC team that is experimenting with this: GAMUX. watch: www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1SGZcgxY3Q
  • 2 0
 @pinnit-cycles: Thanks, this picture is clear and agreed, it should work well. Bummed for you that the wrong image got published and pulled the comment section in the wrong direction. Good luck on the bike, looks really cool!

@luckymixes : A: Effigear works with trigger shifters. Also, as unlike Pinion they don't have the sprocket concentric with the bottom bracket, it should actually work quite well with high pivot designs. Effigear has a few variations to choose from. And B: Pinion also has a 9speed variation. Agreed they could make a tighter range version for the DH market. Of course BeOne had their PeteSpeed system which was DH specific. Hayes owns the patent now, they're just not producing and selling the product. But it shouldn't take too much work. Actually now that we already have these idlers, is it still a bad idea to use a hub gear over there just like Nicolai used Pinion back in the days? Some complain Nexus and Alfine hubs have too much drag but I don't consider them too bad personally. Especially as DH bikes shouldn't really be too much about pedaling efficiency, as long as the freewheel is smooth enough.
  • 1 1
 @vinay: Hub gear is a no-no because it adds weight on the wheel (where you don't want it). If you are going to have a bulky, robust gearbox, you want that weight right in the BB, like this Pinnit bike.

As for shifters, it will eventually come to this, it is a matter of time:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8nVUP5yJ80

not only would make the entire drivetrain mainteinance-free (which is huge!) but also solves the problem of shifting under load
  • 2 0
 @luckymixes: Agreed and I think you misunderstood my post. With "there" I meant in the position of the idler and with "just like Nicolai used Pinion" I made a typo and meant Rohloff instead. Something like you can see over here: www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/rohloffde/xbilderdb/hersteller/Nicolai_GmbH/nicolai_NUCLEONTST-EVO.JPG.
  • 1 0
 @tmwjr777: with high pivot, you ideally need a roller of some sort around that position firstly to provide chain wrap to avoid wearing the chain ring (and chain) really fast. Dreadnought has this, for example. Because the rear centre grows (kind of the point) and is pivoted up high, you want that idler to be as high as possible. Secondly, this thing doesn't have an RD to deal with rear centre growth and suspension movement, so needs a tensioner of some sort. Here is somewhat less dangly than an RD, and I think will swing out of the way. Though I have to say that if I were designing it, I would try to move it up and back for more chain wrap and more protection. Which others with similar bikes seen to have done better
  • 1 0
 @mhoshal: exactly what I was thinking
  • 1 0
 @pinnit-cycles: I wish this photo had been published first. That dangly tensioner nearly made me stop looking at the article.
  • 1 0
 @luckymixes: You mean this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=etOvbo8d6eg

Your link Shows the Gates Version for belt drives
  • 1 0
 @Lasse2000: Yes, but I think the belt solution would be even better for the Pinnit bike. No chainslap noise and no maintenance.
I am sure it will be the standard for DH in a couple of years.

High pivot with idler
Gearbox with belt
Electronic (AXS like) shifter
  • 2 0
 @luckymixes: belt drives don't like mud/stones. Terrible option for dh. Theyre only really worth it for touring/commuting, there's a reason they're not common in mtb.
  • 1 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: These are my thoughts too, even though I don't have actual experience with them. But the shape of the sprockets and belts don't seem to leave much options for mud and debris to escape. I do like the lack of strain though. Maybe they could make a belt with holes someday or a ladder-shape.
  • 2 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: does anyone do belt drive with suspension? Thought they needed scary tension to stay engaged? If you take away the mech and shifting, chains just work
  • 1 0
 @mountainsofsussex: yes, nicolai (who else lol) have an ebike with a rohloff electric gear hub and a belt drive. Definitely done as a pavement princess set up though, there's a lot of Germans/Europeans who use full suss ebikes for commuting because it's far comfier than a road bike.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: if you look at the gates, they're about as good as they can be for shedding with rounded 'teeth', but the parralel nature of them means mud can't purge sideways. Would need a full redesign with a chevron belt to effectively clear. And can you imagine what the sprocket would look like for a chevron belt? Arrow shaped teeth...
  • 1 1
 @inked-up-metalhead: Fair point but this chap does not seem to agree. Rides mud and survives (not exactly DH but the experiment is is still valid)

youtu.be/QgP_NT5dkYY

Plus, no maintenance! Pinion belt seems to be popular among "adventure bikes" so I think it is at leasy not terrible in the mud.

Gamux team rode it in Snowshoe last year, they surely know if it is yay or nay in the slop...
  • 1 0
 @luckymixes: well the guy I knew who set up a pinion hardtail with a belt drive and panniers for bike packing ended up swapping for a chain. It all depends where/how you ride I suppose, he was on a lot of gravel/fine shale and kept getting little bits on the belt which made a horrendous noise when it got to the cogs and was chewing up the belt, so your no maintenance only applies if the belt doesn't break, and while he liked it on any road sections because it was super smooth and quiet, for him, it wasn't worth the risk of not being able to fix a link mid ride. He could have had a spare belt, but that's not great when your packing as light as possible for a week long trip. Again, there's a reason it's not common in mtb.
  • 1 0
 @luckymixes: and factory teams running anything means nothing, they've got the backup and support to replace the belt a lot more often/potentially have custom parts that aren't available to consumers. We get it, you've got a hard on for belt drives, but not many people share your enthusiasm, and most people will not be moving away from a chain any time soon.
  • 1 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: Everything wears eventually. Especially if a mix of a lubricant and an abrasive (water and sand) has to be purged between two surfaces. Single speed chains are pretty cheap, the sprockets for them are too. Sure a belt should last you a few chains. After a few years of riding, which is cheaper? I'm not even taking the recycling options into account (steel chain vs composite belt). And just bring a chain tool and a cut-off of a chain along for the ride and you can always fix a chain should you snap one.

I'm not against something new or different. But my choices are largely influenced by
1. What does it cost to ride my bike per ride?
2. How likely is it to fail in a way that I can't fix it trailside?
  • 1 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: Yes you are right, I really dig the gearbox and belt system. But I am talking about producing the best DH machine possible, which I think it has the potential to be.

DH is absurdly expensive, and expensive parts are breaking all the time, so being cost-effective was never the big selling point. A spare belt drive costs less than a good tyre, so it's not a dealbreaker.

That said, a gearbox is a very robust machine. The box and the belt should outlast several chains, cassettes and even a couple derailleurs. Not to mention that a lighter rear wheel with really good suspension should reduce the amount of flats and smashed rims.

And finally, DH bikes are washed like, every 10-20 runs? What I mean is, if it works for at least a week of bickepacking, it should be good enough for a race weekend, right?
  • 1 0
 @luckymixes: In this discussion, the belt is to be compared to a single speed chain. So with the other components (except for the interfaces) to be similar (gearbox or single speed, no rear mech etc). If the focus for this discussion is primarily about DH bikes, does a single speed chain even wear much? And without the lateral loads of shifting, does it even break on a ride? And if not, what does one gain with a belt?
  • 1 1
 @inked-up-metalhead: All I say is, it just makes sense for DH. I would love to see more testing on the idea, and I really think that, with enough iterations, it would make the whole DH/park experience better:

Think about the gains:
- Chainless-like suspension kinematics. Best ever traction and braking.
- Shifting while coasting or in the air, with a crisp electronic shifter (Pinion Smart.Shift)
- No metal noises (watch some Zerode videos, they make the quietest bike sound ridiculous)
- Optimum weight distribution, the bike should be very stable and predictable in the air.
- No chain lube, no shifter cables. Just clean it and go.
  • 1 1
 @vinay: Why singlespeed? The belts work with gearboxes, you can have a gearbox and a belt drive
look: www.pinkbike.com/photo/23826076

Not sure what you mean.
  • 2 0
 @luckymixes: In response to the gains you mentioned:

- Chainless-like suspension kinematics. Best ever traction and braking.

The suspension performance with either a belt or a chain (all else being equal) will be equal.

- Shifting while coasting or in the air, with a crisp electronic shifter (Pinion Smart.Shift)

Yes for those who consider that an advantage, that can indeed be an advantage of using a frame-mounted gearbox. Regardless of whether a chain or a belt is being used. Downside I can think of would be if this would increase drag when coasting with a dirty belt or chain.

- No metal noises (watch some Zerode videos, they make the quietest bike sound ridiculous)

Fair.

- Optimum weight distribution, the bike should be very stable and predictable in the air.

Weight distribution won't change much if you'd replace the chain by a belt, all things being equal.

- No chain lube, no shifter cables. Just clean it and go.

Fair about the chainlube. Obviously the shifter cables don't depend on the use of either a chain or a belt.

- Why singlespeed?

You can use a gearbox with a belt or a singlespeed chain like a KMC Z1. You don't need a chain like a HG chain that can be used with a derailleur system as there is no derailleur.
  • 1 1
 @luckymixes: you need to get your head on straight. Why singlespeed? Because your belt is single speed, duh. Yes it's a gearbox, buy its still a single speed belt/chain, you don't run a 12 speed chain on a pinion. Single speed chains last ages, and are literally £8. If you want the ultimate dh bike, a belt is a more costly approach than a chain, while being less reliable when wear/damage is involved. I have first hand accounts of belts being worse when grit/mud is involved. Nothing you say will convince me or 98% of the mtb world otherwise. Get over it, chains are better.
  • 1 0
 @luckymixes: you seem to think you can only use a pinion with a belt? Is that the problem here? Most of your perceived benefits are from the pinion, not the belt, as vinay pointed out.
  • 1 1
 @inked-up-metalhead: OK I thought you meant singlespeed bike, not just the chain, my bad.

Between a singlespeed chain and a belt, I would prefer the belt, because it is less weight, and more importantly, less inertia, so less flapping around.

Chains go absolutely crazy when you watch them in slowmo, a belt would be much calmer, (even with the tensioner set up to a softer spring, which also helps suspension) Bonus, no noise.

All of this of course, provided that strength and durability is on par for DH, which now we are starting to see with experiments like this bike
  • 1 1
 @vinay: when I say Chainless-like suspension, I am refering to the sprung vs. unsprung mass concept.
Every bike review I have seen about gearbox bikes say it is very noticeable, and it makes sense to me. Fricition is less of a problem if you increase the sprung mass
  • 1 0
 Better get a jockey cup for those jockey wheels.
  • 1 1
 @vinay: [Weight distribution won't change much if you'd replace the chain by a belt, all things being equal.]

also, I am talking about the whole concept of the bike, not just the belt.

The concept being, high pivot bike, gearbox, belt, and wireless electronic shifters. Does not exist yet, but I think they will
  • 1 0
 @luckymixes: you are arguing the positives for gearboxes as the positives for belts. They are not the same thing, and you can run one without the other. Not a single one of your arguments (other than noise) is valid or concerns belt drives. Again, a pinion can be used with a chain, getting 99% of your claimed benefits without the downsides of a belt.
  • 1 1
 @inked-up-metalhead: No I am not. I am talking about the positives of gearbox AND belts together, for DH purposes.

It is clear that I like the setup, and you and @vinay don't. It is OK by me, I am just playing armchair engineer here. No woorries mates
  • 1 1
 @luckymixes: no. You are using things like unsprung weight, which is purely the gearbox, and a chain driven gearbox has all the same benefits. If you can't separate the two, you're playing armchair idiot.
  • 1 0
 @luckymixes: set up 2 virtual bikes, same frame, same components, same pinion gear box. The only difference is the belt or the chain. Now, what are the benefits of the one with the belt? None. Absolutely naff all. Not for dh. Not over the chain, which runs on the same gearbox, same frame, same wheel, same size cogs. You have no argument for belts on dh bikes other than noise, but if you're riding slow enough to hear the difference, you probably don't need a dh bike. Chain slap is pretty much Jon existent these days, especially with good chainstay protectors.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: I would, but I find it amusing the level of mental Gymnastics he's doing to try and say the benefits of gearboxes are, in fact, because of the belt. I have nothing better to do so might aswell see how far it goes ‍lol
  • 1 1
 @inked-up-metalhead: You need to relax, no one is going to give you an award for defending your beautiful chain noises hahaha... Do something else if you can't discuss without calling other people idiots, nobody is going to miss you here.

A belt's mass is half of a chain. If you say that there are no benefits, maybe you should ask yourself who is being an idiot here.

Maybe it breaks. Maybe it clogs with mud. Maybe it rides terrible for some other reason. All I am saying is that I would like to see a bike like that tested in world cup level DH.
  • 1 0
 @luckymixes: but you're being stupid, by not seeing that the belt is completely separate from the gearbox, and you're using arguments that only apply to a gearbox. You are literally being an idiot, it's not an insult, it's just straight up fact at this point. You are not discussing anything either, you're just reiterating your very wrong points.

And half of a 250g chain
Wow.
Such saving.
How much does the rear sprocket weigh in comparison with a single speed chain sprocket? I bet its 100g different.

And you never will/have for a damn good reason, no team is going to use on, because it makes zero sense. Considering the various things that have been tried, it would have been by now. Maybe you should go start your own team to watch them lose on belt drives.
  • 1 0
 @luckymixes: and BTW, it still wouldn't produce the best dh bike drive train. Accept the separation you've been missing, and yes, a high pivot gearbox dh bike is ideal, I always wanted a zerode g1/g2, but add in the belt and you've ruined it.
  • 1 0
 @luckymixes: and no one is going to give you an award for defending your expensive, non repairable belts that don't like mud and stones. But you're still here, so so am i. At this point, I can't work out which of us is trolling the other the most lol
  • 1 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: you do work on a chain factory, don't you?

It is the only possible reason for someone to loose his head over an internet discussion on this topic and start showing your lack of manners.

So, your argument is crying about a 83,95€ belt being too expensive and saying "if it worked, somebody would have done it by now." Congratulations.

There ARE people trying this stuff right now. GAMUX team started on Pinions with chain and grip shift, and switched to belts and paddle shifters in 2022. Season. Things have to be tested in order to say they work or not. Unno has a patent for a DH bike with a gearbox, maybe they will try belt, maybe not. All I know is that you should relax a bit and learn to respect others opinions
  • 1 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: I have a Zerode on belt drive and had previously had it set up with a chain,l the parts overall were slightly less with the belt, I weighed every part out of curiosity, the belt was significantly lighter (1/3rd of the weight of the same length of chain) but the sprockets were heavier. The belt has been great for the overall ride and the putit away wet conditions we have in the PNW. It's also much quieter, it's over a year and a half and I haven't had any issues. I have to say the customer service from Gates at least in the USA is some of the best I've experienced too, I broke a tensioner part on a trip when it was the chain set up and they sent me a part free of charge, they also should anything go wrong with your pinion ship you a spare gearbox while they take a look at yours. There is the drag part which people go on about which is similar to slower rolling tires but for the riding we have here (winch and plummet) its been awesome.
  • 1 1
 @luckymixes: you work for gates don't you?

It is the only possible reason for someone to be this idiotic over and Internet discussion on this topic and deflect and change their argument so much.

So, your argument is '' just because pro teams haven't done in en masss (ala 29er) doesn't mean they aren't wrong'. Congratulations.

And yeah, when even 10% of the field are on belts I'll come back and concede defeat. You've been just as bad, if not worse for not respecting or considering other people's opinions, just bleating the same, wrong subject arguments again and again.
  • 1 0
 @tobyb: it's quite loamy in the pnw if I'm correct? I imagine it would be a better case use for them, just the guy I knew who tried one liked it until he hit the gravel/shale that he was mainly riding. I'm not completely against them, just don't think in the majority of mtb circumstances they come even close to a chain.
  • 1 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: yeah it's pretty loamy, it's not too different to UK dirt, but not the rock flint shale terrain as found in parts of Wales. (i grew up in the UK) In my experience here the belt is less maintenance and not a noticeable difference in efficiency over a chain. I think there is less chain slap effect with the belt being so light but maybe as its rubber its also quieter that way too. I ended up trying a gearbox bike as I was always curious and there are pros and cons, I think the unsprung weight is a big plus and I find my wheels seem to stay very true with no flat spots than previously (it is also dishless and less weight to have to change direction) The belt suits me as its less maintenance after a wet ride, its fit and forget in my experience. There is a company (Gamux) that is using belt this year and a gearbox. I had a friend who wrenched world cups some years back and I asked them why they didn't try a gearbox back in the time and it was the efficiency that seemed to be the issue, which I see, if you are sprinting for a win and loosing 6-8% efficeincy then I get why a racer might not entertain that, but for an everyday rider I think it makes sense, I equal it to having double down tires vs xc tires, they are slower uphill but I ride for the downs, same for coil shocks too, people spend so much to enhance the dh performance but overlook the gearboxes which makes a huge difference. I do wonder about the times on the race course that are non-pedalling parts of the courses and how much time it might make up vs the % losses when it comes to a point where you need to lay down the watts in a sprint. I've been experimenting with lighter wheelsets and tires and different inserts too as the rear wheel seems to hang up less so that's been interesting, but like for like i jumped on friends bike with a rear mech the other day and it was easier to pedal up, but i need the exercise lol
  • 2 0
 @tobyb: I'm in Lancashire, my mate was up in the lakes/Scotland with his, lots of granite chips and limestone gravel bridleways, it was the horrendous noises from those chips being between the belt and cogs that made him ditch it in the end, combined with the fact he didn't trust it to not break/wear through (another symptom of the same problem) when he was a full day or two and/or 50 miles from civilisation in the Highlands.

Tbf, it's only the belt I've ever been saying is a problem, I like the idea of a gearbox, if someone brought out an ebike (my solution to getting up hills lol) with a zerode g1 style frame mounted gear hub/high pivot suspension, I'd be all over that in a heartbeat, obviously there are companies working towards integrated gearbox/motor solutions but I'm not 100% convinced yet, the revolute one is a automatic cvt I believe, which sounds great for commuting, but not mtb where you sometimes want to be in a massively low gear preemptively.
  • 53 0
 That's a funny looking bash guard
  • 23 1
 Bash seeker?
  • 1 0
 Taint.
  • 39 4
 That derailleur looks as poorly positioned as the balls on a two legged dog.
  • 28 1
 Which 2 legs, because I have thoughts.
  • 28 2
 Uhhh….I tHiNk YoUr DeRaIlLeUr iS On WrOnG !!
  • 51 1
 Guys chill, that chain tensioner on the pictures is the "standard Effigear" for low pivot bikes. With the new chainstay there will be enough space for "our tensioner", like on the first frame, thats sits tucked away behind the chainring!
  • 6 1
 @pinnit-cycles: yup, best solution.
still, if you would just have shortened the chain for the photo above, this shit comments show wouldn't have happened.
Sorry for being honest, but the whole concept looks great, and it is a pitty, that it is bashed for literally no reason / unimportant detail, that will be fixed anyway.
  • 2 0
 @pinnit-cycles: Why didn't you experiment with Effigear? It more easily allows a high pivot. Was it down to availability?
  • 3 0
 @hamncheez: this is the effigear mimic gearbox in the pictures, it has the same mounting "standard" as the pinion, so you can use both with this frame.

The other effigear gearbox (I guess you are referring to that one) is basicly welded into the frame, not mounted via screws.

That one easy allows a high pivot indeed, but limits you in everything else, so we went for the "pinion mounting" options
  • 1 0
 @Zerknecht0r: Ah, thanks for the clarification! So this is as close to a "standard mount" as we are going to get for gearboxes?
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: I think so Big Grin Until there's a new standard...
  • 22 1
 *Pinnit engineer and chain tensioner exec meet in dark back alley. A briefcase is passed *

Exec: "These tensioners are really profitable. We need a way to move more units"
Pinnit engineer: "Say no more..."
  • 14 0
 The CAD bike with two rear triangles and a double shock looks interesting!
  • 6 0
 Also: three cranks
  • 16 4
 It's a no from me dawg.
  • 9 0
 Why is the chain tensioner so big and low? Surely this is not the finished product for the chain routing. be awesome to see it belt drive.
  • 1 4
 I think with that tensioner the chain is long away the chain stay to prevent slapping. With belt there won't be that issue
  • 13 2
 Ooooo dangly bits under bb. Smart.
  • 10 4
 If “chain growth is nearly zero” then why the exaggerated tensioner? If there’s almost no difference in chain length due to the suspension kinematics, you shouldn’t need much total take up.

Cool bike otherwise
  • 9 0
 Chain growth in this case (and all others afaik) refers to growth of the upper chain, since that translates into pedal kickback.

In total there always must be, at least some, chain growth. (Unless for example you run a single Pivot point exactly though the BB, like in some slopestyle fullys, so there is zero change in length, that the chain has so deal with.)

That particular tensioner wasnt desgined for high pivot bikes, so the mountain plate is far from ideal for this frame. Our tensioner for this frame (similar like the one on the first frame we made) is not ready yet, so we used this tensioner...
  • 1 0
 @pinnit-cycles: am I missing something kinematically? If the top section of chain doesn’t grow, shouldn’t the return loop/bottom side also not grow? Hard to visualize with the high idler pulley in there…
  • 1 0
 @mtallman2: maybe this helps:

That is the calculated chain growth (both upper and lower) out of linkage design:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/24219511

Excuse the quality of the pictures, that is the actual chain lengthening
(tested with our prototype tensioner and our new chainstay):
www.pinkbike.com/photo/24219512

-> there needs to be slack at the lower chain (that has to be managed by a tensioner), otherwise the chain would rip when you dive into the travel.
  • 4 0
 Everyone's piling on the tensioner location, which is fine. But is there a reason they couldn't just put an actual RD mount on the bike to run a tensioner, like one does when single-speeding a bike with vertical dropouts? It's confusing why they went the route they did. I didn't see a reason mentioned in the article.

Also, Cedric Eveleigh would probably be happy to license his tensioner to them.
  • 2 0
 UnSpRuNg WeIgHt
  • 10 0
 @bkm303: tHaTs AcTuAlLy KiNdA tRuE!

The tensioner on our first frame worked flawlessly, so we sticked with this design, since it is less prone to be ripped of, and indeed is less unsprung weight. The tensioner on the pics above was just the one that came with the Effigear and we used it to get one frame built until we have ours made.
  • 8 2
 Kinda looks like a session
  • 2 0
 Kinda. the front part of the front triangle kinda looks like a Commencal though
  • 6 0
 Best mountain bike company name ever.
  • 7 2
 "Not made for riding over or near or within line of sight of rocks. But suspension is optimized for square edges."
  • 1 1
 Flow trail only I guess, one of the strangest things I've ever seen outside of 4/1.
  • 1 0
 @ghill28: perfect for kerbs then
  • 4 0
 My days of riding over logs or higher rocks are done if I buy this bike. That derailleur setup would last me maybe 1-2 rides, if lucky.
  • 6 0
 Everybody wants gearbox bikes...until they show up.
  • 4 2
 Errerm hate to point out the obvious but...... main point of a gear box is to eliminate the deraileure.....? So let's move it from a vulnerable area to an even MORE.. VERY vulnerable area.....
,(it's 3am here an I went straight to comments so I coul easily be missing something.....?)
  • 4 1
 How does the derailleur handle a hard case/ bottom out?
Bike looks cool and dig that you're getting after it with your design. Best of luck to you Andi.
  • 2 3
 It's not a derailleur.
  • 1 0
 It don't
  • 3 1
 @mi-bike: Biology says a derailleur, is a derailleur. ;P
  • 3 0
 I used the original Pinion tensioner (2 wheel design, similar like the one above from Effi) for one year and it works, because when compressing / stuff hitting it, it starts to rotate towards the rear wheel "out of the way". But its not a nice solution and sometimes rocks, picked up by the front wheel, are tossed into it, leaving scratches. So when our tensioners arrive, we'll switch to them.

Oh and thx Smile
  • 2 0
 Zerode makes a tensioner for the Pinion that mounts high, just behind the cranks, not sure why these guys decided to hang the tensioner low and in a precarious location, but I’d change that bit ASAP!
  • 1 0
 the high pivot requires more slack to be taken up.
  • 1 0
 Looks like a great rig! Question: any particular reason why the DwnToob has to be bent? only negative in my opinion, Is one reason shock resi clearing? (bb bend) But why cant it be straight from the HT??? would love to thrash one of theseSmile cheers
  • 2 0
 You're right, space for the piggy back is one reason (BB bend). Regarding the toptube section bend: is takes the forces from the headtube way better than a straight tube, that would require gussets. And those are a bit hard to simulate/implement!
  • 1 0
 Today I have 50/50 cased a big jump by stupid mistake with my aluminium RM Slayer, just grabbed it, quickly checked over and continued to have a fun in the bikepark. Then I go to pinkbike and see this design, no thanks, call me progressproof or whatever, I'm fine
  • 2 0
 Do your chain hang low?
Do it wobble to da flow?
Do it snag on every rock?
Is it platinum, is it gold?
Could you throw it over ya shoulder?
If ya hot, it make ya cold
Do your chain hang low?
  • 2 0
 Sick looking bike, unfortunately the derailleur is likely to explode on some rocks (or the ground) quicker than one would on the back.
  • 2 1
 Tears the Derailleur off on the FIRST rock roll. Somersaulting down a nearly endless pile of granite boulders cursing the guy who put it between the wheels. "But at least it looks fu(kin' sick"
  • 1 0
 -DHers in the lift line having a pissing contest.

Random rider shows up on a Pinnit Shredmaster, swings mech over shoulder and tips their helmet " how you boys hangin'?"
[Reply]
  • 2 0
 Chill everyone or you won't have enough pent up vitriol for the next downcountry mullet bike with internal headset routing release
  • 1 1
 I love how people laugh at a pulley hanging off in the wrong place, but feel absolutely fine about having a 100$ derailleur bolted to the side of the rear wheel. If Shimano XT was invented today, everyone would give them a hard time in the comments for being a terrible idea.

Let's face it: bike drivetrains are a reminiscence from old road bikes. It just stuck and was perfectioned to the point that we no longer think about them.

It makes much more sense to have a closed gearbox, specially with a belt drive so we don't have a chain slapping everything and sounding like a trainwreck while we ride.

The last problems to be solved about gearboxes are:

- Shifters. Electronic ones make total sense. No more grip shift (Pinion), and no more finicky spring setups (Effigear)
- Weight and DH specific use cases. 5 or 6 gears with about 300% range should be more than enough for most situations.

I honestly believe that in five years time, we will be looking at the absurdity of today's derailleurs with a big laugh.
  • 1 0
 The difference is that there's a big wheel with a rubber bumper (tire) on it that extends past the rear derailleur and shares a similar axis. If you run into a big rock, the wheel hits first. The vestigial derailleur/pulley in this design is not protected at all. I'm not saying derailleurs are perfect, but this design is far more likely to get broken than a regular derailleur.
  • 2 0
 @woofer2609: It has been said 100 times already: the tensioner on the picture is an old design. There new ones fold upwards, see: www.pinkbike.com/photo/24217859

My point was not that the hanging pulley isn't awful, my point is that modern derailleurs are just a bit less awful than that, yet no one bats an eye.
  • 2 0
 @luckymixes: Is it mentioned in this particular article that the tensioner has changed position? I may have missed it being mentioned, I'm basing my comment on the image shown that has a tensioner hanging 6 inches below the BB.
If this is an outdated picture, why include it?
Awesome looking bike with the relocated tensioner.
  • 1 0
 If the tensioner is to be reduced and moved in the next models, why are you publishing this bike now? Instead of focusing on the new bike, we all turn our attention to the poorly designed derailleur.
  • 4 0
 Sick! Much want.
  • 2 0
 With a name like Pinnit, they did not feature Kenda's Gwin Pinner tires? Missed opportunity.
  • 2 0
 Specialized actually made tires called Pin it. They were really good on dry hard packed conditions too. Wish they still.made them honestly. I guess they were a little too conditions specific though.
  • 2 2
 @Bushmaster123: Specialized makes some good tires. Good tread patterns, stout casings, and not too heavy. I'm using Specialized tires both front and rear right now. Hillbilly front Butcher rear. Good for dry looser conditions.
  • 2 1
 @tacklingdummy: Good combo, I used that set up before. I tried Kenda Hellkats last summer. Excellent in the loose dry as well.
  • 5 2
 I actually don't think I could want this any less
  • 2 0
 How dare they show the kind of contempt for us that we were going to show to their product. Outrageous.
  • 1 0
 It's good they do destructive testing, I'm always a bit skeptical of the safety testing on some of these small garage built brands.
  • 3 0
 Liking it!
  • 3 2
 great work pinnit, now all the big manufancturers are going to be angri they have to make bikes like this
  • 3 0
 Very cool
  • 3 0
 This is wild. Love it.
  • 2 0
 I just said yesterday. What about a gearbox DH bike.
  • 1 0
 What about a digital drive dh?
  • 4 2
 Congrats but... hard pass.
  • 2 0
 Pinnit's Instagram meme totally accurate.
  • 2 0
 Needs horizontal shock mounting. [insert armchair engineers report here]
  • 2 0
 So they built a Kavenz with a gearbox?
  • 2 0
 "angular roll bearings" should say "roller"
  • 2 0
 Testing info for a self-made bike? When did we get into the 21st century?
  • 4 1
 1st of January, 2000, exactly just after midnight ticked by on 31st December 1999. Please don't tell me you think we're in the 20th century.
  • 2 0
 @handynzl: Whoosh! Yes, I know we're in the 21st.

The point is that this kind of empirical testing and analysis should be normal in this day and age. It's surprising because it shouldn't be surprising but is.
  • 2 0
 47 comments in and the price nazis are nowhere to be seen. LOL
  • 2 0
 Route your cables through that tensioner, and I think we're done.
  • 1 0
 It's a real looker of a bike, and then you take another peek and wtaf. Like putting a towbar on a Ferrari.
  • 2 0
 I saw this thing two years ago in flesh and it´s an absolute beauty!
  • 1 0
 i expect that tensioner routed through the bottom bracket on your next model. thank you.
  • 2 0
 Is that a vestigial derailleur?
  • 1 0
 Why not designing an expandable pulley to tension the chain rather than that ugly tensioner?
  • 2 0
 Looks like this article got derailed by a derailleur
  • 2 1
 Team rumours: Gwinnit to Pinnit.
  • 1 0
 Huck to flat video will be interesting ....
  • 1 1
 yet again americans f*ck up german names. the company is called schnurrtec ffs. not that hard…
  • 3 1
 @Sethimus

Learn how to use capitol letters… It’s not that hard.
  • 3 0
 @Saidrick: "Capital" letters?
  • 2 0
 @woofer2609:

Capitalizing the ‘c’ would refer the The Capitol of a country or state, or as a name of a team like the Washington Capitols.
  • 1 0
 @Saidrick: Capitalizing the "C" also denotes it being the first letter in a sentence, question, etc.
  • 1 0
 Someone turn that dingly dangly chain tensioner upside-down already!
  • 1 0
 I'll wait for the digital drive model.
  • 1 0
 What's your bike called?

Pinnit shredmaster

Erm.
  • 2 2
 Well that tensioner placement is simply horrendous
  • 3 3
 An SBone chain tensioner would look better on it
  • 1 0
 Want one! Nice work!
  • 1 0
 looks like session Big Grin
  • 5 7
 203mm rotor mount sucks just do 200mm. Also that tensioner is possibly the dumbest thing ive seen this year
  • 3 0
 It's actually 200mm, that table was wrong.
  • 2 3
 i would ride this if it was size small and had a normal drivetrain
  • 1 3
 Too many bikes with off the shelf tubes and rockers lately.
  • 1 3
 Falls in the “… doesn't mean you should” category
  • 3 6
 "The Pinnit Shredmaster" lol no thanks.
  • 1 3
 But Who Are You?
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