Pivot Releases New Les SL Lightweight XC Hardtail

 The number of pivots is also les than their other bikes.

 Agree. I appreciate that they didn’t actually ‘shave every gram off’.

They elected to keep bottle mounts, tool mounts and cable ports - all these would have easily added more than 30g to the frame weight - but they made a practical and lightweight bike with good numbers.

Well done Pivot.

 I think (hope) we'll see a move in XC hardtails akin to CX bikes being replaced with gravel bikes. More mounts, slacker geo, bigger tyre clearance, more focus on comfort and and all day endurance than on 90min races. All while still retaining their lightness, simplicity, and ability to cover ground at speed.

 I count 4:

1x Seat Tube
1x Toptube downside
1x Downtube upside
1x Downtube downside

 The article mentions the downside downtube mount to be for tools and a spare tube. Obviously people can use it for a bottle cage, a pump or just a Fidlock mount and attach whatever they feel like.

 @mattg95: 100%

 @sprecks57: Math!

 It weighs less than my gravel bike... (but also costs about 3x as much)... but yeah it'd be pretty great for some long adventures.

 I think you mean two water bottle mounts, and the requisite enduro banana holder mount….though seems unnecessary on this bike

 Imagine spending 10k on any bike when brands like vitus, commencal, canyon, nukeproof exist

 Imagine spending any amount of money on your own pleasure instead of living a joyless existence in a grey box and hoarding every penny earned from your labour.

 @Patrick9-32: imagine hoarding every penny earned from labor just to purchase a $10K bicycle because you think it will remove you from a joyless grey box existence.

 @Patrick9-32: Imagine making your hard-earned money go further...

 Imagine all the people Livin' life in peace

 @zeusdreadbeard: imagine thinking Commencal made lightweight xc bikes

 Imagine spending $3k on a bike that's an awful fit for how you like to ride. That's worse than spending $10k on the perfect bike. Finding the right bike for your riding style is priceless.

 @preridedump: *EMOTIONAL DAMAGE - you've just destroyed the psychy's of 90% of the readers, including me. I hate you.

 @maestroman21: RUNG WHAT YOU BRUNG and ride it till the wheels fall off! Or spend $5k for 2 more bottle mounts. Makes no difference to me

 Reminds me of that dumb ass Epic Speed of Light edition bike that went for $15k. On a frame that costs well below $1k to mass produce in Taiwan or China, probably around $600

 @zeusdreadbeard: ahh yes the good ol Amazon "bike in a box" brands

 @Patrick9-32: Imagine spending money on a useless bike rather than allowing compound interest to make you far more money.

 @maestroman21: psyches

 @Jshemuel: You know what? I was way closer than I thought I was.

 Imagine being a dentist.

 currently building up a chromag wideangle for my gf.

final price projecting around $3500 usd.

my own chromag cost me around $3k to build.

one of the best bikes i've ever owned, to some degree prefer it over my full squish.

10k is unnecessary. but hey, if u have money to burn, who am i to stop you.

 @waldo-jpg: Commencal's lightweight XC bike is the Meta AM HT.

 Totally worth doing a couple of extra root canals and fillings.

 @sewer-rat: I think you're a dreamer......

 Imagine all the people Livin' for today

 @mattmatthew: Sounds Interesting. Where can I learn about your build?

 @sewer-rat: imagine only thinking of that song as beautiful.

Then trying to share it with a girl who was really religious who only heard it as anti religious OR for your super republican mother who only remembers it as communist propaganda...

OOPS Funny how you can hear the same thing but only find the message you were already looking for!

 @nickfranko: Yea cause I'd rather make money and not ride... WAIT, whachyootalkinboutWillis...

 @stiingya: Even for the little bit religious, it would be hard to get beyond the first line!

 @vRidge: This is true... but I don't always get caught up in the lyrics. When we watched the Goonies with the kiddos I was going around singing Girls just wanna have FUN for like two weeks!

The last two days I've had the opening theme song from Firefly/Serenity in my head... cant stop.

Probably early signs of alzheimers!!

 @iSawThat: i'll probably post pics and specs on vital-mtb when it's done.

 Agreed

 not very familiar with Pivots but seeing a lot of references to this bikes popularity with the single speed crowd....is there a reason for that compared to other hard tails?

 @SATN-XC: had sliding dropouts I would assume?

 @SATN-XC: because Niner got out of that game

 Not the goal of this bike. I'm sure you could do ebb or a tensioner.

 @SATN-XC: It was popular with the SS crowd, because the old LES had what Pivot called their 'swinger' conversion kit that (basically a sliding dropout system, that was a breeze to use) that allowed for quick & easy conversion from gears to a dedicated SS. It was one of the last remaining SS-able, racy, lightweight/carbon options that was designed for pedaling hard & fast.

Maybe this is a reason formerly sponsored Pivot XC/endurance/gravel athlete, Gordon Wadsworth, recently left and signed with Why Cycles. Gordon did a lot of SS-events -- multiple time SS XC champion and NUE overall champ, IMO made his name there, and still does occassionally, but if Pivot decided to no longer make a SS frame, he'd leave no? (just thinking out loud)

Not sure what is out there now? Sure there are metal frames out there...but who now makes a carbon SS for the race crowd?

I had SS LES and it was so damn fun. Although if I want to make my current Mach 4 SL a SS, I just pick a gear I want and pop the battery out of the AXS derailleur ;-)

 @RR1: Spot Rocker is the only thing I can think of that’s carbon.

 As already mentioned, the Les used to be able to swap the dropout to convert from SS to geared.

The "V2" dropped that option to make it lighter.

But you could buy a dedicated Les SS frame, if SS and light is still your thing. It is still on the website:

store.pivotcycles.com/en/bike-les-singlespeed-1

 I would argue there are more overall SS options out there, but the competition to get your carbon race hardtail at or below 800g makes offering a carbon XC race hardtail SS compatible difficult. And obviously the brands that did it in the past and no longer are see more value in hitting that weight mark than catering to the SS market.

 Spot Rocker, if you want a carbon SS, which is a pretty niche market.

I wonder if there are more carbon singlespeeds, or downhill bikes being ridden?

 I rode the SS Pivot Les for years. Just switched to the Spot Rocker (with belt drive!!) last year. Much better set up and geo than this V2.

 @DHhack: Yep, I built my Spot Rocker as 19.5 lb single speed race sled.

 @SATN-XC: The original model of this bike had a SS option

 @chase2wheels: that sounds awesome!

 Can't you just use an eccentric bottom bracket instead? Save a ton of weight and complication.

If there's a reason why not, genuinely interested

 @mtb-thetown: if you do it wrong, especially on a flyweight frame, you could crush the bb and void the warranty. They are a lot heavier than adjustable dropouts too.

 @DHhack: interesting, didn't realize they were so heavy

 That's just part of the brand at this point. Pretty sure my XTR mach 4 in 2011 had one XTR component.

 That is inexcusable at this point... for the prices they charge, it's absurd.

 Yea i agree, also annoying when someone is selling a used bike and writes XTR in the description and then only the RD is XTR and the rest is SLX/XT

 And therein lies the pivot..

 Pivot Les PivotLes Pivotless gotta pivot your brain maaan

 The drivetrain is full of pivots.

 The reason many XC hardtails run 27.2 is that you can run a flexy high post and get a tiny bit of comfort. You can get that lightweight fox dropper in 27.2 too.

What more does one need?

 It does take a dropper, doesn't it? I don't think the choice for the 27.2mm seat tube diameter is because of weight. I recall that when Stanton went up in seat tube diameter, tech editor at Dirt Magazine Ed Haythorntwaite (currently at Robotbike/Atherton) was complaining that the bike lost the liveliness. I can imagine the smaller seat tube diameter allows for more compliance and for a hardtail like this, that is a consideration.

 @vinay: in talking with a handful of hardtail designers, a select few believe that seat tube diameter has a noticeable effect on frame stiffness, but most feel like its impact is minimal.

 @vinay: Fair enough. But my XC hardtail sports a 160mm dropper and I do use all of that travel on most rides. How much travel do 27.2mm droppers provide? Is a fractionally livelier bike going to be more fun kicking me in the ass on the descents? Come on, some tech editors deemed 80mm of front suspension excessive just a couple decades ago. Now how dead can a bike feel with 100mm!

 @miuan: The PNW and Crank Brothers both have 125mm for 27.2

 @hardtailparty: I have done no systematic research in that I've built identical frames with only a change in seat tube diameter and then went to look for differences in ride characteristics. Ed Haythorntwaite is a hardtail frame builder and designer (well before he joined Dirt, very well before he joined Robotbike) so I just trusted him on that. So other frame builders would argue with him, great. I'm not taking sides, I just haven't heard their explanation.

@miuan: How much room your getting over the saddle isn't limited by the amount of seatpost travel. It is limited by the seattube length. The shorter the seattube, the lower you can get the saddle. From the picture, the seattube appears fairly short already considering the rear wheel diameter. You can make it shorter but it will actually be the rearwheel that gets in the way. I've got a 400mm seattube and run my saddle slammed, but I also run 26" wheels so I can actually use that room. Either way, the amount of seatpost travel only limits the range of adjustment. So with the seattube length limiting how low the saddle can go, if you want to push that limit then the travel limits how high you can raise the saddle. But either way, there isn't anything keeping you clear from the saddle on the descends other than how you set your saddle.

One other consideration could be that they went with a fairly short chainstay for a 29" wheeled bike, yet with a fairly straight seattube. Adding 3mm to the seattube diameter could require a 0.1" narrower rear tire, which could have been a compromise they weren't willing to make either.

Look, I'm not in the market for a bike like this. But I can understand the design choices they've made. It is always a compromise and this is where they've gone. If your set of priorities is different, there sure is a bike available for you too.

 The seatpost diameter isn't anywhere near as bad as them removing the sliding dropouts.

 @mrkumro: agreed. What made the last Les special was the convertibility.

 While I prefer long droppers on my long travel bikes for obvious reasons, the XC rigs do amazingly well with even a short travel dropper. I bought an XC bike with 100mm of travel and didn't think I would be happy, but it has yet to be a limiting factor in any racing I have done.

 Yup, I put a 170mm dropper on my Epic HT, which has a 30.9mm seat tube. Together with a slightly beefier front tier and tire inserts to run ~20psi, this opens up a whole range of new trails (blue and occasional black). It still won't be the ideal bike for rowdy trails (I use it mostly for gravel/green trails), but it makes the bike a lot more versatile. If you use your bike only for racing, 27.2 is probably fine.

 Plenty of good 27.2 droppers on the market now. PNW probably best example.

 I'm not sure why this posted outside of the original thread.

 Weight?

Agree with you.

 Agreed x2. No Singlespeed? No thank you.

 They did that 3 years ago.

 Why would you need that on a lightweight xc bike?

 @laupe: For a single speed xc setup.

 @mrkumro: yea, but it doesn't make sense on a purebred xc bike made for racing

 @laupe: Because a singlespeed is the simplest expression of "a purebred XC bike for racing"

 Why is everyone upset about news from 2019?

Just buy the Les SS

LeSS?

store.pivotcycles.com/en/bike-les-singlespeed-1

 @JSTootell: Don't underestimate the power of an ultra -light singlespeed.

 @Dopepedaler: I'm not. I am just pointing out that everyone is complaining about news from THREE YEARS AGO.

And also that the bike is still available. You can still build an ultra light SS. Probably lighter than before. If you want a Pivot Les as a single speed, buy the SS frame. Problem solved.

 @JSTootell: The current Les SS is the old geometry. I'm hoping they release a SS version with the new geo.

 only how are you going to SS it? I guess the only way to do that is with a tensioner now...yuck

 Too much

 Frame only option? Look at this guy.

 What's wrong with raceface?

 @laupe: cheaply made, terrible support.

 The vertically challenged need it to be slacker for front wheel clearance on their toes. If it's too steep, the front wheel hits the feet when turning.

 @hardtailparty: tall people have much higher center of gravity, we don’t want shorter wheelbases.

 You want steeper head angles on big bikes since when the reach increases they become more stable/less manageable.

 @Themissinglink83: haven’t heard someone say that with a straight face in years…

 @DHhack: you don't pay much attention to bikes in general, evidently. It's pretty common practice in road/cx/gravel bikes. Mountain bike companies are just lazy and cheap for the most part, because mountain bikers don't seem to care about overall geometry.

 @DHhack: images.singletracks.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Screen-Shot-2016-02-02-at-4.40.25-PM.png

Norco, not lazy. They must not make bikes with a straight face though.

 @Themissinglink83: What is that, a screenshot of a the 2016 Revolver geometry? I'm not sure you made your point. I had one and it was a great bike...but it wasn't current and doesn't justify Pivot's decision here.

 @Themissinglink83: this is mountain bikes. Roadie ideas held us back for two decades. All they are worried about is hips, hands, balls off your feet and wheelbase. If you’re idea off mountain biking is IMBA green and blue trails I guess bike design truly doesn’t matter.

You read about the road race that was won in the decent because of the dropper post? UCI said that’s fine. I guess all the dirt roadies will admit their usefulness now LOL

 The PRs I set on my hardtail that I can't break on a FS suggest otherwise.

 Yeah gravel bikes, and especially road bikes are very inefficient due to their steep angles. -Nobody Ever.

 @warmerdamj: my 74 hta Felt was pretty slow, don't ya know.

 @warmerdamj: efficient in terms of power transfer-HTA isn't important. There is that bike handling thing though. And yeah, if you mountain bike on actual mountains a 65 HTA is where it's at....ask that Nino guy.

 @Themissinglink83: If you're riding mellow trails, might as well put drop bars on. You set your PR on Captain Ahab, or Phillips Canyon, or Hangover, or any other testpiece trails that can be railed on an XC bike and then talk. A mountain bike should be good at mountain biking. Even a race bike should be confident on burly descents. Might not send a road gap on an XC bike, but it should still handle well. Steep head angles are crap for actual mountain biking. Ask that Nino guy......

 @wyorider: yea, that's not XC racing dude. Trying to say that you need a race bike to ride Enduro trails or whatever is about as stupid as saying a road racing bike should handle like a gravel bike.

Nino and Kate are still racing on the scale with it's 69.5 HTA when they race on a hardtail, so bringing that up is pretty dumb. Ask that Nino guy huh? What does he know.

 @wyorider: People with actual bike handling skills don't need a super slack headtube angle.

 @mrkumro: need? No.

Does it work better? Yes.

 @Themissinglink83: I’ve seen XC pros ride Ahab on their XC pro bikes.

I’ll go to the mat on slacker head tube angles. There is no benefit on a mountain bike to having a steep head tube angle, but there are a lot of drawbacks.

On a hardtail where compressing the fork steepens the HTA, that’s even more true.

 @wyorider: Considering your profile claims you were an "XC racer" you should be pretty aware that climbing up a steep technical section with a steep HA is much better then with a slack HA as the wheel can then easily wander. It also keeps your wheelbase shorter so the bike can turn tighter, another benefit in an xc race and believe it or not bike companies are aware that when a fork compresses the angles change, I can assure you this is accounted for. As for Nino, hes riding a 67.2* FS and 69.5* HT so I dont know what you are going on about there. You don't need a 65* HA to ride technical trails either, you just need to know how to handle a bike. You sound like you only have been riding bikes for 2 years and have no clue where things have come from. I have a 71.5* HA on my Norco revolver and I can ride that thing down pretty much anything, rigid for or suspension fork.

 @warmerdamj: I raced Cat 1 XC on 71 degree HTA hardtail for years in the PNW before making the leap to 66 degree hardtail (sagged). My cornering and descending improved significantly in just a few rides. I can ride steep double black tech that I was walking two years ago. It took a little longer to get used to climbing switchbacks on a slacker HTA but it's totally doable. I only see upsides to going to slack geo and I would never go back.

 @fentoncrackshell: but why do you need a 66* HA on an xc bike? It's designed to be a light, agile bike that climbs well. They arent meant to shred trails you need a 66* HA for. That's what a trail bike is for. I'm not trying to say bikes don't need slacker angles, of course that make for a better descending bike. I'm saying xc bikes don't need it, there's no way you would be faster on a true xc course with your current bike vs your old race bike. You may not feel it but your climbing has been compromised, you have just learned to compensate for it.

 @warmerdamj: Some XC courses have more technical features where you can gain time with a more aggressive geometry. I've seen courses with jumps that you can double vs roll, drops instead of ride arounds, stay off the brakes more, etc. A longer reach and a 66 HTA give you more stability when you're too tired to maintain good body position on the last descent in a race. In upper levels of XC racing, everyone climbs fast so any advantage in cornering and descending helps create gaps.

 @fentoncrackshell: When you are tired it's much easier to deal with a shorter, steeper bike on a descent vs a long, slack bike on a climb. Maintaining body position while suffering up a climb is where you win an xc race.

 It says both frame weight and build option weights

 @laupe: ok got it... $500.00 a pound