Polygon Square One EX9 and its R3ACT Suspension - Where it Came From and How it Works

Apr 12, 2017
by Richard Cunningham  



Polygon's Square One will be the first bicycle to feature the Naild's R3act rear suspension system, and the reason you need to know about this truly new design is that it rides like no other dual-suspension mountain bike you may have experienced. Big statement? Perhaps, but I have had the opportunity to trace the development of R3act 2 play, the first production version of the design, for three years running, and during that time, I watched some of the sport's heavy hitters scratch their heads in awe after riding the prototypes. More recently, I was given production-ready machines for final evaluation - an experience that made me wish I had not worn the words "groundbreaking" and "revolutionary" into cliches, because I have a proper use for them now. The Square One EX9 we introduce here has 180 millimeters of ultra plush rear suspension, but unless you were told, you wouldn't know that fact until you dropped into a rowdy descent. More about that later.


Where Did R3act Suspension Come From?

Today, we classify trail bikes by the amount of suspension travel that they possess. The reason is simple: as dual-suspension designs gradually progressed from 100 to 170 millimeters, riders either happily or grudgingly accepted a number of compromises between pedaling efficiency and suspension performance. Even with the addition of technological band-aids like anti-squat kinematics, pedal platform switches, remote travel adjustments, lockout levers, inertial controls and reactive electronics, experience has taught us that, at various waypoints, we trade pedaling efficiency for a more technically capable (and heavier) chassis, and we have names for those benchmarks of compromise: cross country, trail, all-mountain, and enduro.
Pinkbike-Polygon-3-2017
R3act suspension derives its enviable anti-squat attributes largely from its telescoping "monostay" swingarm. The stanchion tube is visible inside the pocket ahead of the bottom bracket.


Designer Darrell Voss thinks otherwise. "I don't believe that suspension travel should necessarily be part of that equation," says Voss. "Let's face it. Most riders are out there to have fun, and they can only afford one bike. If it pedals efficiently, what is the downside to having more travel?" Voss spent the past nine years working on a suspension system that erases nearly every downside of long-travel rear suspension. Heard that before? Yeah, probably from me, among others. Voss, who is a ripper downhiller, wanted an 180-millimeter-travel trail bike that pedaled as well as the best 120 bikes, but with a suspension that could track the ground like his DH machine. It took him a while, but he figured out a way to do it. It's called "R3act" - a tribute to Newton's third law - and it looks like it was derived from part of an alien space vehicle.

Darrell Voss
- Dennis Yuroshek photo
bigquotesLet's face it. Most riders are out there to have fun, and they can only afford one bike. If it pedals efficiently, what is the downside to having more travel?Darrell Voss

I'll forgive you for not knowing Voss. He's about as enigmatic as a six-foot, seven-inch-tall genius who has a zillion bicycle related patents can be. Soft spoken, he prefers to work behind the curtain, beginning his engineering and design career with Klein Bicycles in the late 80's, which led to a series of design partnerships and manufacturing operations
in Asia that ranged from bicycle construction, to suspension products, key components, and even a magnesium forging facility. Voss's wide range of experience and tenure in the mountain bike world affords him a broader view of the sport. He lives on the vanguard of technology, but he becomes much more animated when the conversation shifts from extolling the virtues of the latest ten-thousand-dollar superbike, to how it may be possible to squeeze all that performance onto one that only costs only five thousand - which is why he founded Naild, and why Naild's first major project was R3act suspension.

R3act is designed to be a complete rear suspension system that Naild plans to sell to bike makers, along with any assistance necessary, to help them integrate it into their own frame designs. Presently, two bike brands have signed on. Polygon, and another well-known brand that will be debuting its version shortly. The basic suspension configuration is adapted to incorporate variations in suspension travel, wheel diameter and frame sizing. The design of the frame's front section, its geometry, components, and the bike's intended use are left to the customer.

Pinkbike-Polygon-3-2017
Internal hoses, tucked from harm's way and full-width chainstays.
Pinkbike-Polygon-3-2017
The rear axle plays an important role in the stiffness of the swingarm.


Why Elevated Chainstays?

Naild's carbon monostay swingarm is simply the most efficient way to provide an ultra-rigid structure that can incorporate the suspension's tubular sliding element. Shut your eyes and think "bicycle" and you will probably imagine a classic double diamond frame, garnished perhaps, with bits that relate to your style of riding. That's what a bike frame is supposed to look like, right? And, if you were making a frame from steel or bamboo, the double diamond design would be the best possible, time-proven way to build it. The addition of long-travel suspension, however, and the availability of engineered materials, like heavily manipulated aluminum or carbon composites, encourage designers like Voss to deviate from accepted fashion in order to solve new engineering challenges in more effective ways.


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And, the Sliding Element?

OK, here's the nerdy part: Voss admits that the basic concept is not new, and sources two bike designs that used sliding elements to help isolate the suspension from pedaling-induced chain tension: Paul Turner's Maverick and the evolution of Yeti's sliding carriage and present sliding column suspension. His version, however, takes the concept further. The heart and soul of his R3act suspension is a large stanchion tube that pivots near the bottom bracket that the monostay swingarm slides on. The stanchion tube is angled precisely to direct chain tension to counter suspension bobbing, and also to provide an "anti-squat" vector that, unlike the present dual-link suspension designs, remains very consistent through the bike's gear range and suspension travel.

Voss' ace in the hole is that the sliding member apparently balances opposing pedaling and suspension forces so well that a small impact can activate the system. That, and the fact that shock damping is reduced to the absolute minimum, allows the R3act system to track rough or uneven the ground with uncanny accuracy.

What that mumbo means to normal people is, you can pedal the bike in or out of the saddle and as hard or as softly as you want, and it will keep the tire hooked up without having to care about or compensate for what the rear suspension is doing. And, it accomplishes that without the need to engage platform levers, use electronics, or employ damping filters.
Anti-squat at 25 sag
Anti-squat at zero sag.
Anti-squat at full compression
Anti-squat at full compression.
Anti Squat vs gear ratio
Change in anti-squat vectors with each cassette shift.

No Fuss Suspension

Voss would be angry if I continued to baptize readers with suspension kinematics and techno-sermons about R3act. He's spent a measure of his life attempting to debunk the hocus pocus that marketing and media hacks have heaped upon a mechanism that he believes should be a simple to operate. "Sure, R3act's kinematics are complicated to describe," says Voss. "But, the rider should never have to think of that. Set the Square One's sag at 25-percent, get the low-speed rebound close and go ride. There is nothing else to do."

Truth is, that's all there is to it. No rubber bands in the air can, no knobs to fiddle with. In fact, Voss had to work closely with Fox to provide an X2 shock with almost no rebound and compression damping to optimize its performance. After testing, Polygon deemed the shock's platform lever unnecessary and eliminated it entirely. Voss calls it "Ground Tracking" suspension, because the way that R3act uncouples braking and pedaling forces allows the wheel to follow terrain so closely that most riders initially think something has gone wrong back there.

Polygon Team rider Mick Hannah said, "At first, I thought the rear brake wasn't grabbing. If I wanted to slide around, there's just so much more grip available, I had to use more lever to break traction. I found I could brake much later because of it." Indeed, the Polygon stays composed under braking, and it can level just about anything a proper DH bike can - better in situations like braking bumps - and it somehow manages to perform those tasks regardless of speed. Go figure.

bigquotesIf I wanted to slide around, there's just so much more grip available, I had to use more lever to break traction. I found I could brake much later because of it.Mick Hannah
Mick Hannah
- Dennis Yuroshek photo

Construction

Presently, R3act swingarms are made from carbon, which is probably the best use of that material. To boost stiffness, the monostay structure is intentionally boxy where space or clearance is not a concern, so the large, hollow part lends itself well to carbon composite manufacturing techniques. The shock is driven by an aluminum yoke that pivots on plain bushings. Lateral forces on the swingarm are controlled by an aluminum rocker link near the mid-line of the swingarm that controls braking inputs and counters lateral forces. The sliding element is a large-diameter hard-anodized aluminum tube which pivots on ball bearings inside a pocket, forward of the bottom bracket. There is no spring or damping assembly between the swingarm and the stanchion tube, it is simply a sliding interface that telescopes as the suspension cycles.

Pinkbike-Polygon-3-2017
The unusual bottom bracket placement is necessary to position the swingarm's sliding element where it can help generate the ideal anti-squat action. In spite of the offset seat tube and bottom bracket structure, the chassis is quite rigid. At full compression, the swingarm nests into the offset.


Both the rear derailleur housing and brake hose are routed internally through the Boost-width swingarm, and its 12-millimeter quick-engagement through-axle is Voss' own design. Protecting the swingarm's moving bits from weather and mud is an integrated plastic fender, which came in handy during winter testing. Protection is also provided in the form of a thick screw-on plastic bash guard that is intended to ward off rock strikes where the chassis protrudes forward of the bottom bracket housing. The guard was missing from our Polygon test bike, which resulted in an ugly, but only cosmetic impact crater on the corner of the frame. A second, unnamed test bike had the guard installed and suffered similar impacts without damage.

Polygon Square One EX9 geometry

Square One EX Geometry

The Square One EX's offset seat tube and unusual bottom bracket support structure give the impression that the chassis has a very slack seat tube angle, but that is not exactly the case. Measured in a straight line through the saddle to the bottom bracket axle, the Polygon's effective seat tube angle is 73.5 degrees with the stock, set-back KS LEV dropper post, and one degree steeper with a conventional zero-offset post in place. Polygon's reluctance to join the steeper is better seat tube movement is its only nod to conservative all-day trail riders. From there, the Square One's chassis reflects contemporary enduro numbers with a generous reach, a sufficiently low bottom bracket good stand-over clearance and a 66-degree head tube angle.
Mick Hannah
The Polygon's rear suspension does not settle noticeably when climbing steeply, which compensates for its 73.5-degree seat tube angle and keeps the legs feeling fresh. - Dennis Yuroshek photo


Pinkbike-Polygon-3-2017
The size large weighs 13.94 kg (30.67 pounds) A bit heavy for a carbon trail bike, but considering that it has 180mm of wheel travel, it must be strong enough to be ridden as a single-crown DH bike.

mo geometry


3 Questions: Zendy Meidyawan Renan - Polygon Product manager


What motivated Polygon to partner with Naild and adopt the R3act Suspension System?

We decided to expand our market internationally, and we wanted to look for something new and innovative. In our mind, we wanted to keep our company progressive. We saw Naild bring in a technology, totally outside of the box - genuinely - which solved the very basic problems that keep happening in the development of suspension technology for bicycles. In the end, Polygon and Naild have the same simple goal which is, to make people happy when they ride
Zendy Meidyawan Renan Polygon Product manage
- Dennis Yuroshek photo

Why did Polygon decide to drop the shock's pedal platform lever?

We found how well the bike suspension system works with all the damping controls being completely open, and with all of the testing we did, there was no single occasion where our test riders thought they needed to switch off or tweak any setup on the shock, on the fly.

Can the Naild system be adapted for aluminum construction?

It has the potential to go that direction. Seeing how this system works - there is so much potential that we can explore, and to bring it to a more affordable level, surely is one of them. How soon? ...Let's say we have several projects with Naild ahead of us.

Pinkbike-Polygon-3-2017


First Impressions:
bigquotesIt has been a while since I've seen an innovation as relevant to the moment as Naild's R3act suspension system, and the fact that Polygon is the first to launch it, underscores the possibility that Darrell Voss's invention may fall directly into the hands of riders who need it most. The present enduro/all-mountain bike has evolved to the point of near perfection, but at a cost. Its pedaling efficiency, climbing ability, and edgy performance is dependent upon sophisticated suspension, the lightest construction methods and the best drivetrain parts. Here is a suspension system that can deliver better pedaling, superior suspension action, and greater versatility - and it requires no special components - at least for the rear suspension.

At a moment when the sport is choking on carbon caviar, Voss and Polygon offer a simpler alternative: How about we skip the science class and ride one bike that can do just about anything we'll ever need a mountain bike for? The Square One EX 9 is not perfect, but it's darn close, and it's a first try. R3act suspension, and the bicycles that are built around it, are only going to improve, which is bound to light a fire under the butts of some of Polygon's very conspicuous competitors. Just when we thought that trail bikes couldn't get much better, Voss and company leave the industry with no other option.
RC
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Must Read This Week

407 Comments

  • + 550
 Ellsworth: I think we clinched the ugliest bike of the year for the 3rd year running.
Polygon: Hold my beer....
  • + 72
 Redalp: I got this!
  • + 170
 I like it, sorry.
  • + 261
 I actually kinda like how it looks. Besides, if it rides that well who cares about looks?
  • + 118
 The more I read about this bike the more I get into the looks. I bet in flat black with some subtle gloss stickers it would look sick.
  • + 11
 we get used to EVIL-LIVE design, wait 6 months and this will be good
  • + 5
 cool, now i got something to read for my 15 minute breaks at work
  • + 20
 Chainstays make it look a bit like a praying mantis. Great idea though. Looking forward to reading some ride reviews.
  • + 10
 back end reminds me of the marin quad system and that telescoping tube obviously was inspired by the Yeti switch infinity
  • - 15
flag Minibeast (Apr 12, 2017 at 5:26) (Below Threshold)
 @rifu: almost threw up when i saw one...
  • + 194
 Say what you want about how it looks (clearly subjective), I'm just happy to see some innovation vs. another tire size being announced.
  • + 9
 Hold my beer. Lol.
  • + 2
 @Caiokv: everyone
  • + 4
 @bcmrider: thought the exact same thing, praying mantis ftw
  • + 12
 Let's make the voting rights after reading this article! 1. Function Or 2. Fashion
  • - 4
flag mrtopher39 (Apr 12, 2017 at 7:35) (Below Threshold)
 How do you qualify the Ellsworth as ugly and not every other 4 bar style bike ugly along w it?
  • + 2
 Pronghorn racing to redalp: don't worry I got ur back in xc racing.
  • - 11
flag RedBurn (Apr 12, 2017 at 7:53) (Below Threshold)
 Ellsworth enduro bike is sicklooking ....... here theres no gearbox
  • + 27
 Crazy looking yes, but it's an industrial looking crazy that I actually like. And I'm really excited to see a company doing things differently. I wonder if there would be a way to use a pull shock (don't shoot me) in the telescoping swing arm in the future to make things ultra clean.
  • + 10
 Seems like a pretty big design change from their current standard. The idea of a constantly changing pivot center is really cool, and it sounds like it makes the bike perform totally different. I guess my only question would be, How does this bike do when you get it airborne?
  • + 3
 @goflowz: what makes you say its yeti inspired? Maybe the fact they said it in the article. You are more of a picture book reader aren't you lol
  • + 7
 I'm sure it feels the same way about you. I mean really, if you are that caught up with how a bike looks, maybe you are missing the point all together.
  • + 6
 now ill wait for the water bottle capable 2nd gen
  • + 1
 @mrtopher39: Wow really? Have you seen an ellesworth before dude? The newer ones are getting better but the older ones have grossly big linkage and they don't know how to make the tubes line up better to make the frame more streamline looking!!
  • + 11
 Looks like the plastic love child of an orange and a yeti Actually, if some of the rough edges and the bloated-looking swing arm were smoothed out a bit this bike could be pretty sexy. As much as I think Yeti's are over-hyped, there is no denying that their switch infinity system pedals and grips really well. If this platform has similar characteristics it should be a game changer.
  • + 3
 Ellsworth version of the R3act suspension FTW.
  • - 1
 funny.
  • + 14
 @Caiokv: MTB will always be a high school fashion show for some people.
  • + 1
 @davemays: Swiss made Bold bikes have your back on that one
  • + 4
 I like it too.
  • + 15
 At least it doesn't look like Session...
  • - 2
 It just kind of looks.. Broken.
  • + 2
 @Hyakian: regardless, at a certain price point looks are very important!
  • + 0
 @CaptainSnappy: yep! Shit gotta look damn sexy for my money!
  • + 1
 @burnadette: Most bikes have a constantly changing pivot centre. The idea behind this is that it doesn't!
  • + 1
 @mhoshal: Yeti sliding rail design.
  • + 1
 Regardless of my previous comment, I can't wait to ride one!!
  • + 3
 Looks like the creators of Gundam WIng made a bike, so 90's.
  • + 4
 @therealtylerdurden: It looks like a bunch of Polygons. I'd ride the hell out of though...who cares what it looks like at the end of the day. It's all about performance and reliability.
  • + 1
 I love how they integrated the downtube to act as chain guard to deflect rocks as well. Multipurposizing is the bestest.
  • + 2
 My first thought was it looked like the old Mountain Cycle suspension design, but apparently it's a wee-bit more advanced than that...
Ugly? yes, but if it makes me faster then my buddies will be the ones looking at the ugly back end of it while I'm up front. No loss there.
  • + 3
 @jclnv: actually, its continually changing like I said earlier... watch the video... If the yoke and the lower connecting element were parallel and the same eye to eye length, it would move in a semi vertical/linear path, but the Virtual Pivot Point would still constantly change. (sorry for using santacruz terminology to describe the process, but im sticking to my guns on this one,) the pivot center migrates as the bike compresses. (just imagine trying to make the suspension into a single pivot... it couldn't work with this setup, therefore the pivot has to change relative to its position in the travel... I think.)
  • + 2
 @goflowz: the design of this would have started wayyyyyy before the switch infinity was seen
  • + 12
 @bohns1: I hear ya. I once had a ride that was the sexiest thing around. I loved being seen around town and on the trails. Constantly got looks and approving head nods. Overall the ride quality of the rig was was mediocre and maintenance was sky high.

My next ride wasn't as flashy, had way better performance and almost zero maintenance.

Wish I would have married her!
  • + 1
 @burnadette: The idea behind the design (I believe!?) is to maintain a consistent anti-squat value. Have a look at the two diagrams with the AS intersect lines remaining very similar. Usually the more the IC varies (Do you mean instant centre when you say VPP?) the more the AS value changes.

Anyway I think it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist!
  • + 3
 You tripping, that bike is hawt
  • + 2
 As long it rides perfect & not fussing with technical pre-ride settings, I'm stoked..
  • + 1
 Definitely a love or hate it situation here.
  • + 1
 @TheFunkyMonkey: i was on about redalp not the polygon
  • + 1
 @mrtopher39: that's easy.
Transition = great looking 4 bar
YT = also good looking 4bar
Canyon = much the same again
Specialized = for the most part, sweet looks
Ellsworth = vomit in mouth 4 bar
  • + 2
 What is the bike in the video above? - it has an obviously different linkage than the polygon.?
  • + 1
 @jclnv: I believe that you have to find a problem with the current standards in order to make a faster bike year over year.

My initial point is what you have confirmed in your second statement. The IC or VPP moves along an arc through out the travel of the bike.

What is cool/different about this design is: you are basically getting a double action out of the rear suspension. It is moving a lot more dynamically than a regular single pivot based linkage.
  • + 0
 I think the most ugly bike i'ts still Orange. But they ride well
  • - 3
 That suspension movement is the most hideous and visually offensive thing I've ever seen on this site. If this is the future, as Hudson would say, "You can count me out."
  • + 0
 How did I know the top comment would have something to do with Ellsworth? LOL
  • + 130
 Come on Pinkbike/Richard. This article is much too breathless and fawning to be taken seriously. Where's the beef?

"provide an "anti-squat" vector that, unlike the present dual-link suspension designs, remains very consistent through the bike's gear range and suspension travel"

You don't want anti-squat to be consistent through the suspension travel! Ideally it should fall off in the deeper travel, in order to minimize pedal kickback.

Where's the leverage curve? And pedaling is not the only issue with longer travel: there is also bike weight and suspension feel (poppiness). You ignore those for most of the article.

The split seat tube is also a con, limiting seat post insertion.

Undertstanding anti-squat and leverage curves is not mumbo jumbo. It's not even hard to understand. Or at least it wouldn't be if journalists didn't constantly talk circles around it. We're mountain bikers... if we're here reading an article on the internet about a new suspension design, you don't need to play dumb and apologetic with the "nerd" talk. Your audience isn't stupid, go ahead and get technical because that is what actually matters. Designing stuff might be hard, but the measurements are not hard to understand.
  • + 22
 Well said man.
  • + 6
 Well said indeed. Not much you could add to that.
  • + 11
 Hell yeah....I'll add if they want to trump up braking and can include anti squat charts, why not brake squat ('anti rise') charts as well?

It's only taken 20 years but folks are finally starting to realize a bike's characteristics need not be black magic. A bike rides largely as per it's kinematics and geometry...little more, little less. One doesn't have to be an engineer to make this stuff understandable to the layman.
  • + 6
 Agreed. Also, with anti-squat that high the kickback is going to be huge.
  • + 5
 @tcmtnbikr: The anti-rise curve is already on the graph.
  • + 2
 @AgrAde: Not necessarily. Contrarily to what the bike industry told you, there is more to pedal kickback that just the finishing anti-squat value.
  • + 1
 @blacksim549: I stand corrected...I'll blame it on my old eyes. Thanks
  • + 1
 @blacksim549: I know. For conventional drivetrains though they have a close relationship.
  • + 10
 @tigen, Gotta save some of that juice for a full review
  • + 15
 @AgrAde: And that relationship is the area under the anti-squat vs. travel curve. It's not black magic.

@tigen: Spot on. I like you.

This article is an advertorial. It's disingenuous and Pinkbike should be ashamed for such a blatent sell-out - and we should be ashamed if we continue to read articles without a skeptical eye. Not that this is the first advertorial on the internet, mind you, but it's a particularly ugly one.

This linkage uses all the standard design parameters (anti-squat, anti-rise, motion ratio) in the same way as almost every other suspension system. There's nothing unique about the kinematics here. Nothing that makes it pedal any better than another design with the same anti-squat parameters (which, contrary to Richard Cunningham's nonsense, isn't completely unique, nor is is superior). No reason why it needs less damping or needs "no rubber bands in the air can, no knobs to fiddle with".

I'm sure this linkage can produce a perfectly good bike, but it won't be *because* of this suspension system.
  • + 6
 @R-M-R: Yeah, basically. One is pretty much proportional to the integral of the other. It gets weird when you have a super high or low chainring and pivot (or virtual pivot) compared to the rear axle, which is the advantage of high pivot bikes with idlers - they get the anti-squat without the kickback. If you made a mountain bike with a 20" wheel and a really high bb then it'd also have low kickback for the given anti-squat. Any normal bike with a normal bb height and normal drivetrain? yeah, you're right.

And you're right regarding how the link can't do anything special. It can't. And touting that it's revolutionary because the anti-squat is "stable" is funny too. You can get similar "stability" with the lapierre/radon/etc four bar design. Not that a flat anti-squat curve means that the pedalling behavior is stable, or that it's a good thing. tigen already mentioned that it's better to have anti-squat dropping off outside of the pedalling area of the travel, which I agree with.
  • + 5
 Remember, what is not said in review/article is the most important part of the review/article
  • + 1
 @R-M-R @AgrAde:

So pedal kickback (presumably at X mm of travel) is proportional to the integral of the anti-squat curve (up to X mm)? Can you gentlemen provide some source material? I have been Google searching about this with no results!
  • + 1
 @WaterBear: It's the major factor, yeah. Source? Nah, sorry. There's not a lot of resources on mtb suspension around, it's mostly all motorcycle and car stuff. The best i can suggest is looking through the linkagedesign blog (or downloading the software they use) and seeing how the graphs relate to each other.
  • + 1
 Even in this article in which RC finally ends his tug of war with the demon anti-squat and joins the dark side, he can't do so without the occasional jibe. Applying the concepts of generally accepted scientific fields like kinematics to the design of a suspension bike gets slighted as a "technological band-aid" and "mumbo". And then in the midst of an account of the sliding link on the EX9 RC suddenly reverts to his constant refrain of 'chain tension'. He says, "the stanchion tube is angled precisely to direct chain tension to counter suspension bobbing." And then, belatedly, he grants that the physical positioning of the sliding link is "also to provide an 'anti-squat' vector." RC really likes mechanical accounts in which things like chains really pull other things to where they ought to be. He is suspicious of these invisible anti-squat vectors and although he now seems to be conceding that "anti-squat kinematics" actually explains how things work he still quietly insists that his preferred way of looking at things still stands undiminished even if it has to be augmented by a certain amount of scientific mumbo talk. In view of his evident reservations why RC has finally decided to embrace a bike having an elevated anti-squat profile, like this one, is unclear.

On an different point, it is clear that the anti-squat vectors shown on the diagrams labeled "Anti-squat at zero sag" and "Anti-squat at full compression" are not the correct anti-squat vectors or the EX9. Both of these vectors indicate a lesser magnitude than the anti-squat curves plotted on anti-squat chart included in the article. The shown vectors may be anti-rise vectors but they aren't anti-squat vectors.
  • + 1
 @stillunimpressed: Definitely anti-rise in the two diagrams.
  • + 77
 Sod how it looks. If it rides as well as I'm hearing, I'm sold. Especially for a first production attempt. Zero chance of ever affording one though.
  • + 24
 Make me an SLX spec version and i'm all over this
  • - 15
flag hamncheez (Apr 12, 2017 at 5:17) (Below Threshold)
 i bet its going to perform the same as the new magic link bikes, which are super cheap www.tantrumcycles.com
  • + 28
 @hamncheez: fk me those tantrum bikes are ugly though
  • - 13
flag hamncheez (Apr 12, 2017 at 5:41) (Below Threshold)
 @graeme187: uglier than these?
  • + 20
 @hamncheez: way uglier imho....
  • + 23
 Calling the Tantrums super cheap is REALLY pushing it.
  • + 4
 @codfather1234: two builds under $3k, and compared to whatever this will cost, its cheap
  • + 13
 There's one build under $3k, with X5 10 speed, fixed seatpost and very ordinary other parts. It's less expensive than this will be. But it is not cheap. Of course it's less expensive than a full carbon frame with Eagle, dropper, X2, 36 and all the trimmings.
  • + 7
 Oh and all of those prices are only valid on the first five sold. After that, they increase by $800. So they're actually terrible value for money.
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: plus the tantrum bikes are a little different. They have a "mechanical auto lockout" which is said to be effective, but part of the benefit of having open suspension (especially on climbs) is traction. That's why companies are racing to increase the pedaling platform of their bikes. As an employee of a shop that sells yeti, the brand with the most platform on the market currently, I would love to give these a try as they claim to do the same but better.
  • + 2
 @graeme187:
The only similarity to Tantrums Missing Link suspension I can see is that no platform shock or lockout is needed for general pedal efficiency.
However Tantrums main attribute is the seamless change of geometry adjusted by the resistance when pedaling uphill, while always maintaining an active in suspension. No lockout levers or other manual adjustments needed. No propedal platform. No electronics or inerthia valves.
  • + 1
 @Davichin: isn't it a bit "ugly" to care about looks above performance ;-) Or maybe it's just me not getting hang of this new metrosexual boy thing..
  • + 12
 @MortifiedPenguin: I have a 2nd gen magic link. Its definitely not 'locked out' on climbs, and the missing link is the same. It reacts to bump input from the rear wheel and moves backward and upward over the bump, and strikes a great balance between out of the saddle anti-bob and still tracking the terrain. It worked brilliantly.

That being said, it doesn't matter how well the suspension doesn't bob when you have a 37 pound bike with DH casing, super heavy tires on the bike. Thats what all these suspension gimmicks ignore. Wheel and tire choice will have a bigger impact on how well a modern bike climbs than its linkages, no matter how complex.
  • + 5
 They made a proof of concept in alloy so it's just a matter of time before an affordable one is available.

gzmyu4ma9b-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Polygon-Square-One-180mm-travel-enduro-bike-Naild-R3act-suspension-system-6.jpg
  • - 1
 @hamncheez: but if you put an e-motor on it lol.......
  • + 0
 @MortifiedPenguin: I beg to differ I don't think switch infinity is any better than vpp or dw or meastro for that matter you are just a yeti fan boy lol!!
  • + 9
 @hamncheez thanks for clearing that up. I must have misunderstood how the Missing Link bikes work

@mhoshal: I own a Kona Honzo and a Devinci Wilson. I have owned a Knolly Chilcotin, a Ragley Blue Pig, a Norco A-Line, and a Diamondback Overdrive. My wife rides a Giant Cypher (maestro 5.0). The shop I work at sells Yeti, Giant, and Haro. Never in my life have I ever owned a Yeti, although I have had chances to for VERY cheap. Clearly I am not a Yeti fanboy. I simply have had quite a bit of back to back comparison of Yeti to Giant (and others) with very similar shock set ups and on the exact same trail. Giant makes a great bike. I really like DW Link. I was not stating anything about the superiority of one brand over another. Yeti bikes simply have, in my experience, more pedaling platform than the competition. Does that make them better? I let the rider judge that.
  • + 3
 @MortifiedPenguin: If ever you study how tantrum system works you'll see crearly suspension movement is only locked for and by rider pedalling efforts BUT free for ground obstacles input. In R3act system is a pedal induced forces vector too. A comparative between both systems will be fantastic. Users win !!!
  • + 55
 "R3act 2fun" - really? How can you expect people to take your company seriously when you threat them like a bunch of teenage idiots?
  • + 58
 I Don't want 2B too R3ctal about it but it seems like it would make a Tie Fighter sound when passing by. And firing lasers when rebound damping gets activated. Pew! pew! pew! mwhwEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaooo
  • + 45
 Yeah, the name is pretty R3d1cul0u$.
  • + 11
 I think its kind of cool too be honest. Rawr XD
  • + 15
 (Totally messing with you its a lot of dumb shit)
  • + 8
 The n@me is $hit 4 sure.
  • + 6
 Nah... I was kidding, it's good to see new designs. Even fkng Red Alp, at least you get a dramatic point of reference (sometimes you see a nice girl or dude, hear them talk smart/funny and you are like... I want to divorce, how did I end up with her.... for life... and then you see a girl coming out of KFC with XL bucket or few guys get out of the Star Wars Fan club and you're like Lenny Kravitz - I'm gunna staaaay - by - my - woman nooooow). So it's cool with "revolutionary" designs - too many bikes look like s...
  • + 4
 Because it should be as serious as a heart attack?
Lighten up Francis.
  • + 1
 This was actually a typo. It was meant to be R3act 2 play. Changed in the article!
  • + 5
 @karl-burkat:
OH, that is so much better!!!1 Wink
  • + 33
 props to PB for such a comprehensive article - i saw this on Dirt this morning and they just said 'Polygon are being tight lipped about the technical specifics of the design' not good enough. The detail is really useful, thank you!
  • + 31
 But where does the water bottle go?
  • + 39
 i think the oblique tube could fit 1 gallon
  • + 16
 In your hydration pack
  • + 3
 Stash bib, swat, pearl izumi, fanny pack...
  • + 4
 on your back dude Big Grin
  • + 0
 @properp: really :how you can ride with a stone on your back? I'm very unbalanced with an hydrapack
  • + 1
 Maybe we can fit a spare bottle on the new Nomad, so your riding buddy got you covered.
  • - 6
flag properp (Apr 12, 2017 at 13:29) (Below Threshold)
 @cauboi: if the Trail is less than 30 miles I hydrate before my ride. I never carry water. Water is for the weak.
  • + 2
 @properp: You must not ride on hot, arid terrain then...
  • - 2
 @TheNormsk: most of my rides are 90-plus Degree extremely high humidity. I can easily do a 30-plus mile ride in these conditions hydrating before my ride. I am a very efficient machine. If I spin 10 Mile laps I will hydrate between laps. If I am not on my home turf or familiar with the trails I will carry water.
  • + 1
 A nice lil tricky dodad are those collapsible water containers u find at rei etc
  • + 23
 Those anti-squat curves are nothing special. In fact, the highest anti-squat values are at the end of the stroke, where you don't need it. Anti-squat is proportional to pedal-kickback, and having such high AS values throughout the stroke inevitably results in super high pedal-kickback and chain growth . No wonder Polygon are so keen to 'skip the science class' Describing these curves as 'enviable' is pretty sloppy journalism if you ask me.

Also, the "sufficiently low" BB is sky high, and there was no criticism of the seat angle being super slack.
  • + 17
 I think I'll take my advice from the people who actually make the stuff and those that actually ride the stuff over some PB expert.
  • + 10
 i was lucky enough to be part of the press-camp ...
think about it this way: antisquat/progressivity/leverage ratio graphs... these are all static and for-the-most-part two dimensional ...

the key to the design is the ability to balance both the rider's pedal input (graphs above) AND the inertia (acceleration or deceleration) of the rider ... yes it is dynamic and not easy to describe on paper or the web

the current tools of curves and ratios are insufficient to fully describe the design.
  • + 16
 @naild-it: Hmm, looking at your username....biased much?
  • + 15
 Yes, it was a particularly soft review. Getting used to cliches and avoidance tactics from PB these days. When the biggest kid on the Mtb magazine block cant give honest reviews for fear of comebacks we may as well let the marketing guys at the bike companies write the review.
  • + 8
 @mgolder: you'd listen to the guy selling you something telling you how good it is and believe it over an informed opinion that the person gains nothing from? Interesting the way you've decided to "insure" yourself against getting ripped off. It won't work.
  • + 9
 @naild-it: Pivot don't have a problem explaining it. They've been doing it for years with DW Link.
  • + 5
 @mgolder: Because the "people who actually make the stuff" are sure to give you unbiased analysis?

In my opinion, the article seems like a conduit to what the marketing people want to say, with no real criticism or informed analysis of the suspension design.
  • + 2
 yip anti squat is relative to tension in chain from chain growth. Tension in chain from chain growth is relative to pedal kickback. I have no chain growth so have nither, just ride park and don't fecking pedal..
  • + 3
 @bat-fastard: #argumentforchainlessbikes
  • + 1
 In the video posted in RC's review, was the chain growth "super high?"
  • + 1
 @jasdo: There was a video. I am not seeing it now. @RichardCunningham?
  • + 2
 @naild-it: lol, bull sh!t!
  • + 3
 @naild-it: If these tools are insufficient to fully describe the design, then what extra measurement (or "tool") do you suggest we use?
  • + 2
 AFAIK what you said is spot-on. If you look at the pictures captioned "anti-squat at zero sag / full compression" you can see that as you compress the suspension, the swingarm is moving outboard on the BB stanchion. So yea, it looks like they achieved increased AS by stretching the chain, which will result in pedal kick back.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm running single speed now, just incase I need couple of cranks for a jump lol
  • + 1
 @Bustacrimes: yah why listen to someone who actually designs bikes for a living when you can listen to some 24 year old who may or may not have a clue what he is talking about? thats some PB logic right there lol
  • + 9
 @naild-it: Ha...so the kinematic analyses employed throughout the engineering discipline since the dawn of time and across all other industries suddenly aren't capable of describing this linkage design? I'm intrigued by the somewhat novel design but all credibility is lost and I lump you in the Tony Ellsworth camp of ignorance when you make such a ridiculous statement.
  • + 10
 @naild-it: LOL, so you're saying you designed this bike with some kind of math/physics that can't be represented and conveyed to another person? Well, pack it up Newton, Euler, Einstein, Hawking, etc - this guy has you beat with a bicycle design! @tcmtnbikr bingo, I'm with you dude.
  • + 1
 Show me anti squat curves that look like that, what are these high AS values you speak of cos I can't see them. AS at end of stroke is a mute point, who cares what it is at end stroke, it's not like your gonna be peddling at that point in the travel anyway.
  • + 2
 Bloody internet warriors, anti squat relates to instant centre tracking and whether pedal forces, when theoretically isolated from the downward momentum of a riders body weight when pedalling, will use the chain pull force to compress or extend the suspension, chain growth is not anti-squat, a high antisquat value deep into the travel is only a concern if you are actually pedalling while that deep into compression, which you normally never would be. Try researching instant centres, drag racing uses instant centre calculations to control a cars traction off the line. Sam blenkinsops modified Norco uses a pulley to give less anti-squat, this is likely due to how much he pedals over rough terrain where anti squat will actually have a negative effect of causing pedal kick back while pedalling.
  • + 33
 @ctd07: every time you lock up the rear wheel (which happens quite frequently because every time the wheel leaves the ground under any substantial braking, there's nothing stopping it from slowing down anymore), it no longer matters whether you're pedaling - chain growth can still pull on the pedals because the freewheel is not unloading chain slack any more.

While I'll reserve comment on real world performance until I actually ride or measure one of these up, @naild-it does actually have a valid point about anti-squat curves: the standard 2D anti-squat curves assume the rider isn't moving up and down on the bike whilst pedaling, and that the bike is on flat ground, and that the rear wheel is moving up and down rather than the sprung mass shifting relative to the ground, and that you're in one particular gear. In practice, even in a single gear there would need to be at least a 5-dimensional curve to simultaneously display all of the relevant factors so as to see a true net force in any situation. This is pretty hard to display graphically given that we only have 3 physical dimensions and your computer monitor is 2D. Weagle has made many references to this in the past and dw-link designs don't run at "exactly" 100% anti-squat at the sag point for that reason. Quotation marks because it's never exact anyway.

Note that this does not in any way mean I am somehow defending or complimenting this particular design - skepticism is never unwarranted really - just discussing these particular comments. I will say however that for any 1DOF axle path, there is nothing new here in terms of the physics involved. Using a sliding element instead of a rotating element does not necessarily generate a centre of curvature that is substantially or inherently different or superior. Migration of the CC (as opposed to the IC) coupled with gearing (chainline) and wheelbase are the invariants with regards to pedaling performance, irrespective of the specific IC location or migration. As a result, 2D anti-squat curves are imperfect (ie 100% anti-squat does not actually mean zero bob) but not irrelevant, as relatively small "fudge factors" can be applied to make them about as accurate as they realistically can be given the variable biomechanics of the rider.
  • + 2
 @ctd07: Looking at the photos, it certainly appears that the chain is stretched as this particular design moves throughout its travel.

Could be wrong.
  • + 6
 @VorsprungSuspension: reality check appreciated. Many of us want all the nitty-gritty physics... then realize no one's invented a 6-dimensional monitor to display all the vectors...
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: I think many people look purely at chain growth as being a bad thing, it may alter the technique or braking points required over braking bumps etc, but the flip side is the ratcheting effect and bump compliance you get over compressions that makes high pivot point bikes so fast.

I assume anti squat when mentioned in general refers to the Instant centre affect, which compares the chain pull line with the mathematical centre of rotation for the swing arms mass. I personally don't feel the Instant centre property is as hugely relevant to mountain bikes as companies like Ellsworth for instance, claim it to be, for the reasons you touched on.

It doesn't take into account inherent mechanical inefficiency built into a linkage through angular force transfer, this being what gives you reduced brake jack and/or a pedal platform built into the linkage. The actual linkage mechanics and force transfer between links can have more effect on how chain pull forces affect antisquat in pedalling than ICT kinematics do IMO. A company can design something with no ICT anti-squat but it may still have chain growth and a mechanical pedal platform to help it pedal well.

I personally believe a linkage should be designed to be as compliant as possible to bump forces, I.e., like a high single pivot and that chain growth anti-squat and proper shock damping make for a much better all round bike, more reliable, faster over bumps and consistent handling, just a pity so many people don't have proper damping with designs like Ctd's check valve instead of shims being commonplace.
  • + 2
 @VorsprungSuspension: Could you recommend some literature for people with various backgrounds to start learning about bicycle suspension? Not an introductory website but a real textbook. I am aware of some academic repositories online but they mostly regard stability analysis. I have seen some motorcycle suspension design books floating around the web but I want to know what engineers are using in school.

Thanks in advance for any info!
  • + 1
 @ctd07: almost there, high pivot with a chain idler to remove any pedal kick back, was big years ago and is making a comeback, commecal v4, Norco's protype for 2018 etc
  • + 1
 @bat-fastard: antidote Dark Matter, DeVinci Wilson
  • + 1
 @naild-it: I think I get this!.....You have a single pivoting telescoping swing arm. The telescope is restrained with a pivoting lower link. Under pedal load (X) the swing arm is forced toward the single pivot so no pedal bob. Under braking (-Z) the swing arm is also forced toward the single pivot so no brake jack. However, under compression (Z) the swing arm is free to pivot and telescope out as much as is needed regardless of chain load (X perpendicular to Z)
So pedal hard, brake hard, no jack or bob, but hit a bump and the swing arm is free to pivot and telescope out of the the way like butter?
  • + 1
 @parallaxid: I appreciate the link, but I was really hoping for a textbook. I just want to see what's being used in school.
  • + 3
 @WaterBear: there are no textbooks specifically on bicycle suspension that I'm aware of. Motorcycle Chassis Design by Tony Foale is the closest and most thing.
  • + 7
 One other thing that has been missed entirely is that those anti-squat curves are flat out incorrect. One giveaway is that there is less anti-squat in the easier gears than the harder ones...
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: off course, so any comment on Sram Eagle? Big Grin Is Nino Schurters bike designed around a giant cassette sprocket?
  • + 2
 @VorsprungSuspension: Not all suspension designs have higher AS in lower gears. It depends whether the Axle-IC line crosses the chainline behind vs in front of where the chain makes contact with the front chainring.
  • + 2
 @WaterBear: There are no text books (that I'm aware of) specifically relating to bicycle suspension, however my website has a stack of info in the theory section: www.i-tracksuspension.com/suspensiontheory.html
Some other useful references are as follows:
For a bigger picture of vehicle dynamics, read Carroll Smith's 'Tune to Win'
Motorbike suspension: Tony Foale's 'Motorcycle Handling and Chassis Design', make sure you get the second edition though (first edition has an error with regards to swingarm mounted idlers).
Also, Dave Weagle's patents are pretty informative, and my patent (US9168977) also has a ton of info in it.
Happy reading!
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: Thanks very, very much for the reference!

@hmcleay: Many thanks to you as well!
  • + 1
 @hmcleay: Ah yes, you are correct, I was mistaken - my apologies for that.
  • + 1
 @VorsprungSuspension: You piqued my curiosity with your reference to CC migration. I would be grateful if you could provide references to any materials addressing the topic of CC migration and any implications a migrating Centre of Curvature may have for the ride and pedalling performance of a bicycle. There is very little attention given to the impact of CC or IC migration on bicycle dynamics. There are a handful of web sites hosting articles containing some discussion about the implications of IC position (although not migration) on the behaviour of drag racing vehicles but a lot of that falls under merely setting out certain "rules of thumb" and isn't explanatory at all. Ken Sasaki, similarly, in his Path Analysis paper talks about the Centre of Curvature but, as far as I can recall, that paper never fully explains the broad implications for bicycle suspension behaviour of a) a reducing or increasing radius of axle path curvature (i.e. narrowing or widening axle path curvature) or b) the changing CC to axle angle during CC migration, for a bike with a linkage that occasions a noticeable degree of CC migration.

Anyway, your thoughts on this would be welcome.
  • + 24
 That rear triangle makes me remember a little bit the old mountain Cycle, anyway I like a lot this new polygon, have a futuristic lines Smile
  • + 1
 Reminds me of the MC 9.5. I had one so of course right?
  • + 22
 More important are actual comparisons. 1st against the Tantrum you rode. 2nd a Canfield since from what I've read of the patient they do the same thing. The AS vector stays the same through the travel and it's why there's no recommended sag since it doesn't matter.
  • + 5
 I'd love to hear more about this sort of comparison too. @RichardCunningham - any chance of hearing more?
  • + 1
 The point to canfields formula suspension was spot on. I was reading the article thinking the same thing. Just goes about the process with more mechanical linkages to get the same results for AS.
  • + 23
 well, not very sexy, but great ideas inside. Kudos for Polygon
  • + 15
 I wonder why is there such super expensive shock when the article says the bike needs hardly any rebound or compression damping. Wouldnt it be price friendly to spec some kind of a basic shock or even el cheapo coil?

On the other hand if the bike has no rebound damping how does it behave on jumps? I would certainly not like being launched into the stratosphere after bigger landing.
  • + 3
 This. Was wondering the same thing.
  • + 2
 "Set the Square One's sag at 25-percent, get the low-speed rebound close and go ride."

This line made me think the shock is basically low-speed rebound only, which is what you would adjust for jumps.
  • + 2
 It could be that there is so much friction in the system that they need to back off damping to keep it relatively sensitive. It could be that it's so progressive that you get enough support in the mid-stroke without much compression damping, or it could be that there is so much anti-squat that it needs less compression damping to retain chassis stability.
  • + 2
 My take on that is that it needs a lighter tune for compression and high speed rebound, low speed is what stops you getting pogo sticked into space, it's still there. It must have damping to some degree, no damping at all would be unusable. I'm hoping they get some over to the UK for demo days.
  • + 1
 @ilikeallwheelsizes: it could be due to the (maybe) more rearward axle path than others, but i would expect that to increase rebound to stop the shock pulling the axle forward.

It would be good to know more details
  • + 15
 The notion of a 180mm bike replacing XC/trail/AM bikes as a do-it-all is ridiculous, since suspension efficiency isn't the only compromise that's made: geometry, build kit (particularly wheels/tires), frame strength (weight), among others.


As others have mentioned, the Canfield CBF bikes achieve a very similar (flat) anti-squat curve. Even some dw-link bikes like the RFX can get pretty close. The Yeti Switch Infinity bikes have ~100% AS for >50% of the stroke. Depending on pivot placement, some Horst and single-pivot bikes can get reasonably close - the Trek Slash has 105% to 95% AS through its first half of the stroke. So, a flat AS curve doesn't make something revolutionary on its own.
  • + 1
 you are absolutely correct ... AS curves are only a tiny part of it ...
the full dynamic package matters
the non-uniform pedal inputs and the acceleration / deceleration of the rider are the typical killer ...
the full dynamic package of R3act is what makes this ground-tracing system work
  • + 4
 @naild-it: Could you elaborate on that a little? It sounds like you're saying that rider weight transfer is also addressed by the R3act system. How? Chain-stretch is the only way I know to go about doing that.
  • + 2
 Article talks about taking suspension travel out of the equation, so if you could build a 20lb bike with light racing tires and xc geometry why not have 180mm of travel if it still rides just as well. Not so much about making 1 bike to do it all just getting away with previous mandatory but arbitrary suspension travel for intended use. A bit like how konas process line has odd travel numbers because they designed those bikes around their intended use first then let the travel end up wherever it did instead of sticking with a set number like every other brand
  • + 5
 @naild-it: Okay, I consider myself open-minded on the subject. I love a new design that doesn't rely on damper tuning to pedal well. However, the article only goes into technical detail on AS, so there isn't anything else to consider.


Can you talk more about the full dynamic package, explaining what does does differently than other designs on the market?
  • + 1
 @kevin267: I think what they're saying is just that it has about the same anti-squat throughout the entire travel range. It's important to be precise about what the phrase "taking suspension travel out of the equation" means. In the sense I just described, this sort of thing has been done before (eg. Canfield's suspension design).
  • + 3
 Even this R3act system isn't a flat curve! Look at the anti-squat on the high gears: it almost doubles! How is that flat? Sure, it's quite flat on the climbing gears, but it's clearly false to say it's an inherently flat anti-squat curve.

The bigger issue is that other systems can also produce a flat anti-squat curve, but they choose to not do so. It's detrimental to have high anti-squat deep in the travel. Why create the pedal kick-back that is inherent to anti-squat in a region of the travel where the rider won't be pedaling (it's generally assumed a rider won't be pedaling beyond about 50% travel, as that much travel implies the rider is taking a decent impact, which is done with cranks level).

There's nothing inherently wrong with this design of a sliding element and a rotating link - it's essentially the same as Yeti's Switch Infinity, plus the ability of the slider to rotate a little - but this implementation of the design is sub-optimal. And the article is all hype and no substance.

I'm not on a crusade against this bike, only against advertorials and hype.
  • + 13
 everyone talks about pedaling but what about loading and pumping. 180mm bike gives less platform, pump, snd therefore is slower unless pointed down some real gnar. screw pedaling how does it pump flat terrain/flow trail etc, if it feels like endless deep 180 travel then who cares how it pedals.
  • + 1
 ^^^Exactly. Need much more review of how it performs in those ways
  • + 4
 not to mention the super high BB which is another bummer of riding a 180 bike all the time.
  • + 15
 but it has a pressfit BB...
  • + 11
 It's not the first time either... what happened to that "missing link" suspension you fawned over last year or whatever? I can't really tell if you honestly swallow the marketing schtick every time or there's some kind of financial agenda. I suppose hyping up something will automatically generate more page hits than a sober article. Anyway I complain because it's disappointing... usually this place is pretty reliable but then we occasionally see this other style of hype article written as if you got mind-controlled by a marketing machine.
  • + 3
 @tigen The missing link suspension is in kickstarter mode with the first frames to be delivered in late May. So there hasn't been any fawning since the first article because there hasn't been anything to fawn over since then. I have one on order out of curiousity, but have no idea if it will suit me or not. Multiple other random riders on MTBR have gone on demo rides and been quite impressed, so maybe there is something to it. AFter re-reading the article I see that RC did not even ride this bike or if he did he didn't comment, so you are right that this article is fluffing albeit interesting. The Tantrum missing link he at least rode for a day with no marketing muscle behind it other than the lone builder trying to get the word out.
  • + 13
 My immediate r3action is: looks like they naild everything but the aesthetics
  • + 6
 I see what you did there
  • + 3
 one very well know rider was asked the question same question at the press-camp: "What do you think about the looks"
his very basic answer was "the more I ride it ... the better it look" ...
  • + 1
 @naild-it: so in other words, you, and this well known rider, agree that it doesn't look good if you don't ride it? Unfortunately, we only see our own bike when we are off the saddle..
  • + 1
 Damn, booiii!! Shots fired!!! I repeat, shots fired!!!
  • + 1
 @tachril: i repeat, shot fired...performance not yet proven since i dont take marketing gimmick explanation..but the look is definitely piece of cake
  • + 14
 Password please
  • + 10
 Patented? Sounds like it might be with the "I will sell you the components" approach to ROI. Kudos to one guy to outpace the Giants and big bike companies.
  • + 8
 Very interesting design, looks like he the suspension love child of Trek VRX, Marin Quad and some "long travel" Yeti Switch Infinity thrown in for good measure. Wonder how he went about to check the kinematics?

I wonder if a pull shock could be thrown in instead of that "sliding bearing", it could open up some valuable space for a water bottle.
  • + 11
 Did anyone else laugh when they read "Voss' ace in the hole is that the sliding member apparently balances"?
  • + 24
 No.
  • + 8
 I have been able to closely follow this project come to fruition over the past 2 years and its the culmination of over 25 years of thinking and designing, Darrell has put in a tremendous effort in building this system. As i live in Taiwan and see many production / prototype parts and bikes way earlier and know how long others take to make something to only market it too early and having early adopting customers as their test-crowd while improving things for the next 2 years , i can only say that this project is done way different and with a far better approach to rider bike and conditions then anything i have seen before.
Big Kudos to Darrel and the Naild.it team for getting us riders what we deserve ! Proven Ready product !
  • + 7
 "Let's face it. Most riders are out there to have fun, and they can only afford one bike. If it pedals efficiently, what is the downside to having more travel?" -- Darrell Voss

This is what I have been saying for years, and why I'm skeptical of the recent trends toward lower-travel bikes. MOAR TRAVEL! 160mm+++++!
  • + 4
 @TheR I too prescribe to the "more is more" school of though.
  • + 7
 What is there to bitch about? The miltary green looks great, the rear swing arm looks how a solid swing arm should look, and finnaly a shock that just works the same way without changing modes. No Kimosabi...this bike looks like it just wants to ride.
  • + 11
 Fuck me, i only just realised it's not an e-bike!
  • + 6
 Just gonna jump in here and say: Canfield Bros have been making bikes with 100-120% anti-squat throughout the entire travel for years now. Not sure how that relates to this design, but I would be curious to know how it does.
  • + 10
 I wonder if Mick will race one at Cairns?
  • + 6
 Oh....im sure thats susp mecanism bring people on "hate or love" like a Orange Bike with "single pivot model"
But, overall its radical inovasion from Polygon. Good job!

Maybe pinkbike has a review soon Big Grin
  • + 8
 The framesection attached to the bb ended up doing the most stressful job in the bikebusiness.
  • + 8
 I'm more excited that a company actually put a rear fender on a bike to keep dirt and crap out of the pivots and bb area.
  • + 9
 That's some serious marketing talk
  • + 5
 "The Square One EX's offset seat tube and unusual bottom bracket support structure give the impression that the chassis has a very slack seat tube angle, but that is not exactly the case. Measured in a straight line through the saddle to the bottom bracket axle, the Polygon's effective seat tube angle is 73.5 degrees..."

Yes, it exactly IS the case. If you are over 185cm, en EFFECTIVE seat angle paired with 425mm chainstays will not work for you on steep climbs and this will not be compensated by R3act.
  • + 3
 Big Bunny knows a thing or two about height
  • + 1
 @FarmerJohn: I literally searched the comments section hoping somebody knew Darrell's old nick-name. Oh, and my first MTB was a Mongoose with Farmer John's...
  • + 1
 @GRMTBR: So it is THE Darrell "Big Bunny" Voss. I wonder if he can still pull off those massive bunny hops.
  • + 1
 @DrPhibes:

mombat.org/MOMBAT/BikeHistoryPages/Klein.html See the 1989 ad. He used climbing shoes for the better grip of the rubber on the pedal back then....way before 5.10 haha
  • + 1
 @sprockets: That MTB looks like a BMX under his 6'6".
  • + 5
 Innovation is always welcome but to call this suspension system "simple" is a bit of an over reach. It certainly looks way more complex than a DW-link. Huge monostay, pivoting link, telescoping rod in the BB area, massive connecting rod to the shock, interrupted seat tube, suspended BB ... simple it ain't! And what about the weight? And the performance uphill? The single photo provided is not really encouraging, nor is the vague statement "rear suspension does not settle noticeably when climbing steeply" ... noticeably?
  • + 2
 Simple in so much that the shock it's self is basic... Overall in terms of mechanical operation it appears no more complex than DW, VPP, etc...
  • + 3
 @Hyakian: to me it looks much more complex than DW or VPP link: besides all the changes required to the frame it got a sliding stanchion in the monostay!!!! The only system that seems as complex is the YETI.

And frankly I am not so ready to believe that a 30+ pounds looking 180 travel bike pedals uphill better than anything already on the market ... it is an incredible bold statement to make (as bold as calling DW link or VPP "band aids") and it should be supported by some real data ...
  • + 5
 @duzzi: Regarding complexity - I guess we see things differently, that's OK.

Regarding data:
There are some things data will tell you, other things it wont.
I've ridden a lot of bikes (skied on a lot of skis) that shouldn't have worked well according to the numbers and conventional wisdom however IRL performed way beyond expectation. "Feel" and "experience" in the field is another matter - Some times you have to try something and experience it first hand before you can have an objective opinion.

I get it though, this is new, and its easy for anyone to be a skeptic. However, at the end of the day, if one hasn't ridden it (this or any design for that matter) it just amounts to "talk". And, talk is cheap.
  • + 4
 @Hyakian: Yes, and this is exactly what this "first ride" sounds like: talk. What's the point of a first ride report in which Cunningham calls all the suspension development of the last 10-15 years a band-aid? If you are serious do a real comparison and weight the cost/benefits of the new system properly (it is bound to be heavy with all that extra stuff, and why take away rebound/compression ... how can one set up work for everybody? And why? what is the advantage? saving 20 grams in a shock?).

And not to be unkind but it is hard to trust Pinkbike: it sings the song of revolutionary innovation on average every 3 months!
  • + 1
 @duzzi: Ha ha, fair point - I hear ya - Like most things time will tell I suppose.
Curious to swing a leg over it to see what RC is fussing about tho...
  • + 1
 @Hyakian: same here!
  • + 1
 @duzzi: this was much more dramatically worded than most reviews about a new linkage... here's to hoping it rides as great as it's written up (And has good SUPPORT for popping and pumping!?)
  • + 8
 Animation or it didn't happen
  • + 7
 @RichardCunningham any thoughts on how this compares to the missing link (magic link 3.0) bikes?
  • + 6
 Or Pivots DW Link as that's been around for years and gets little to no praise but remains the best climbing platform I've ever ridden.
  • + 4
 @Bustacrimes: Shhh, the dw link is based on science and math and doesn't throw fancy terms around.
  • + 4
 How progressive is the frame?
The only way i can see it working descent with next to no compression damping is by using less sag and having a very progressive suspension... The sag-part seems to be true with only recommended 25% sag but there are no words about the progressivity.
  • + 3
 This is what is cool about the bike industry- someone is always coming up with a new way to make a better mouse trap. Sounds like it rides really well. I would love to have a bike where I never felt the need to use my rear shock lock-out.
  • + 3
 I dont take any thing RC says as marketing hype.
This is better than Horste link?
Better than VPP?
Weagle link
Maestro ect.
I wonder how many bike companies will jump on board ?
  • + 0
 It's no better than any of those man its all hype to get the almighty dollar!!
  • + 1
 At least one other well known company per the article. My guess is specialized. I say that because their suspension patent is up and there are a lot of other companies that are copying their older model bikes.
  • + 1
 @Lastpikd: Specialized just recently released redesigned Enduros and Stumpies. It's more likely to be a company with a trail or enduro bike that's due for an update. The Nomad comes to mind, but I think that's far to extreme for Santa Cruz. Too big a change for any of the major North American brands for that matter. I'd put my money on a European brand like Cube or Lapierre.
  • + 1
 @Lastpikd: It will be Marin Bikes. Polygon owns Marin and Darrell Voss is on the Board.
  • + 2
 What is with the anti aesthetic comments all the time?, Is a good looking bike something i am supposed to grow out of ?
"it rides well so who cares how it looks" is a down right ridiculous comment. Do you apply that formula to everything in life?
  • + 3
 One bike that can do multiple things is swimming against the current industry thinking of ever smaller niche bikes to make us part with our cash. Fingers crossed its a strong swimmer.
  • + 2
 One importatnt factor for claimed goog all-round performance is BB height/clearance. How can you possibly have a 180mm travel bike with enough ground clearance, that it can be used as a 120mm trail bike without geometry changes! This is the most important part of the equation. Extremly impotant for bike handling.
  • + 3
 I see people on here always with the " yeah, but it has press-fit". Someone want to chime in and explain that? i personally have never had any issues with them, but everyone seems to want a threaded BB.
  • + 2
 Ride a hard tail, cross bike or a true road bike for an hour and then get back on any full suspension bike and tell me how good they pedal. As soon as you add springs to a bike you lose power transfer to the tires, but see huge gains in others areas, there is no way around it and no magic linkage is going to solve this. If this one is as good as claimed it sounds like its better than most.. Bikes like all things in life are a compromise, and its up to us as the consumer to choose what we value the most and shop accordingly from their.
  • + 1
 VPP infinity link style with very low leverage ratio. Nothing to complain about and surely works very well. So as Yeti. But, please if you have something revolutionary at this subject , document it properly so that people can actually understand what's different with this system.
  • + 1
 Looks like all the futuristic Call Of Duty games had a baby with a mountain bike. Im really really not into the looks, way too boxy and outlandish. The swingarm looks like those ones on those cheap walmart mountain bikes or throwback DH rigs. But, criticism aside, the technology here sounds like a game changer. Nice to know that other bike companies are gonna be able to buy into this suspension design, that way there'll hopefully be a bike with this technology that isn't butt-ugly. Excited to see what other companies will have to offer when they start using this same suspension design (smooth lines, no boxy square stuff, make the swingarm look normal please?? Im not loving the whole futuristic transformer robocop looking bike). Thats just my opinion though, super excited to see where this tech will go
  • + 4
 Its like a Prius, at first its okay. As time passes by, actually, it looks better
  • + 2
 Yeah because you get older and don't care as much
  • + 1
 Look, I'll be the first to admit I'm not a suspension expert, but isn't this just making the lower link of a two link suspension design flimsy and supporting it with a telescoping post? I don't see how the kinematics benefit from the post? The travel and arc of the suspension is still defined by the lower link and the upper link (in this case the yoke/shock) what is the post actually doing?
  • + 5
 The 'lower link' you refer to is actually the upper link. The actual lower link is the telescoping post, given it has a lower pivot connecting it to the bike it's movement is defined by the short upper link above it. The shock yoke has nothing to with the suspension movement.
  • + 3
 Ugly as sin but it looks like it works. Heading to Bali in September and I believe these are the enduro bikes on hire so looking forward to riding one.
  • + 3
 @RichardCunningham - how does this compare to the Tantrum Cycles Missing Link Suspension? similar result via different solution?
  • + 1
 I doubt they perform very similar since this suspension appears to be designed to stay at about the same level of sag while Tantrum Missing Link are designed to continuously adapt to the inclination when climbing. Steep climbing and sag are at 0% to maintain the best possible body position, weight distribution and quick stearing by steeper HT angle.
  • + 3
 I think it looks totally unique and actually good. If rides half as good as all the positive reviews make it sound, I think worth a serious look!
  • + 5
 How many faces Dennis Yuroshek does have finally??
  • - 1
 He is the photographer not the one being photographed.
  • + 3
 My eyes!
I guess they have two design teams, one designed their SS and DH bikes and the other one designed this and their AM bike?
  • + 5
 Well, with that kind of praise, i'd sure as shit like to ride one!
  • + 1
 Looks like a gearbox wouldn't fit but if the drivetrain doesn't influence the action then it's taking away some of the arguments about unsprung weight anyway. As someone who likes a little damping as possible and putting up with the negatives associated with that I'm sold on the design. I'm really looking forward to a review, if it also offers good support through the stroke for pumping the bike through turns and off trail features then it's a game changer. I'm sure we've all ridden enough ugly things to overlook that eh boys and girls
  • + 1
 To some degree, because you still have unsprung weight on the back it is still affecting the bikes performance without you noticing, so you can have this bike with sophisticated suspension but a conventional drivetrain or you can have a zenerode taniwha with a more conventional suspension but with a sophisticated drive train, Both very innovative bikes in their own way
  • + 1
 I think its hideous but I love it at the same time too (much like my Balfa BB7)... The only thing that I dont like about it is the relatively slack effective SA and that the HA is a bit too steep for a 180mm travel bike (would expect something similar to the spindrift or at least below 66).. otherwise it looks like an insane bike with great reach, may the bb is a bit high but that makes for an easier to pedal bike too (although is that what a 180mm bike is meant to be??).

It just seems a little bit confused in the final geo... slack ESA, Not slack enough HA and a high (comparatively) BB, sort of the opposite of what you would expect from a 180mm bike (you would expect that much travel to be like a mini dh rig but one that pedaled wel).

Still super keen to try one if I ever see one in the flesh...
  • + 3
 As an engineer, it is a really interesting concept. However, that bottom bracket with the sliding linkage thing is an absolute nightmare.
  • + 1
 This is what happens when you let engineers build stuff. Design Team: "Uh yeah, that'll look like ass!" Engineering Team: "MAKE IT HAPPEN" Marketing Team: "We'll just sell it as revolutionary!"
  • + 2
 As a non-engineer it is interesting to me too. Is a career imperative to finding something interesting?
  • + 3
 @mgolder: As an engineer, i dont know why being an engineer makes this more or less interesting, but im glad i told you im an engineer.
As a rider, it looks legit, less bearings and swingarm components than FSR/VPP and the slider is housed well compared to yeti's more exposed version. Shaft size looks substantial and it also looks like the seal head for it uses the BB tool, so disassembly should be a piece of piss. Looks good.
  • + 1
 @bluumax: you must be a crappy engineer if you can't count. VPP = 4 pivots not including shock mounts. This thing = 4 pivots + a shaft. VPP has 2 links. This thing has 2 links plus the shaft system. It's MORE complicated than VPP!
  • + 1
 edit
  • + 1
 This is reminiscent of the old Maverick bikes in a way. Although drastically different of course. A little funky looking at first but it quickly grows on ya. Would love to give it a whirl. Sounds promising.
  • + 1
 So if one wanted to run this bike as a replacement for their relatively lightweight trail bike, would it not be strange to have 130 or 140mm upfront with 180mm in the rear? I'm asking cause I have no idea.
  • + 3
 Anyone have any idea who the other company to lease this technology might be?
  • + 1
 How does it compare with Yeti's Switch Infinity? I think most people would agree that up until now (maybe) that system was the most efficient? Will this be even better then that?
  • + 1
 design is ugly , but if the hype is real then i am happy to ride it. its not perfect though.. too much stress on shock , frame perhaps less stiff aswell , and reliability is questioned also.
  • + 2
 "I don't believe that suspension travel should necessarily be part of that equation," says Voss

I can't help but think of the Dyson vacuum cleaner guy when I read this.
  • + 3
 I told my wife I would never sell my nomad... but maybe I've changed my mind
  • + 2
 When you think bikes couldn't get more complicated...!? Some bikes with these very complicated systems around the BB area, just wouldn't last long in the UK!
  • + 4
 This should have been GT's next iDrive suspension variant.
  • + 1
 Is it just me or do those anti-squat diagrams look completely wrong? Plotting out the IC and chain line to find the AS line gives me a completely different result- giving it almost double the amount of AS.
Thoughts?
  • + 1
 See here for what I mean? I notice that the bike in the video is different to the diagram though:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/14609042
  • + 1
 @TrueScotsman: yes the bike in the video has a very different linkage to the polygon which is shown
  • + 4
 It does not look like a Session - I like it.
  • + 4
 You had me at "sliding member".
  • + 2
 now just wait until someone comes up with a beautiful version... And wait for front suspension to step up the game as well :0
  • + 1
 I heard the guy from racetech motorcross suspension talking about telescoping forks/suspension couple years ago. He holds a few patents. Push is/was a client of his
  • + 1
 So much good here but then you incorporate a high interrupted seat tube. WTF! An AM bike is no longer AM when the max seat post drop is 6"
  • + 2
 The BIG question is..... has a mainstream bike manufacturer bought in??? C'mon PB.. who is the silent player?? let's avit...
  • + 2
 Lots of big talk in this article. I really want to demo one to see if the reviewer's words hold up. Sounds awesome.
  • + 0
 How is no one talking about the big ass bulge at the bottom of the down tube? I wouldn't wanna ride over logs or in bigger rocks that thing would get smashed quick and bye bye frame!!
  • + 2
 Imagine Polygon's R3ACT Suspension and Trek's RE:aktiv shock!!! Mind blown!!
  • + 1
 This suspension design reminds me of the VST suspension design that Frank The Welder was working on back when he was at Sinister bikes circa 2006-2007.
  • + 1
 Looks like a Trek VRX. But hey,great to see inovation. I really miss the "arms race" of the 90's,when every month we were blown away with never seen technology.
  • + 2
 If you have to choose only 1 answer,
Wich one you will choose?
a. Appearances
b. Performances
  • + 1
 There are bikes that have both so no need to choose! I want both
  • + 2
 I will just ride my aluminum old school forgotten about Canfield brothers "the One".
  • + 2
 I don't care how good it rides, my scout rides just fine and doesn't look like a mutated Minecraft praying mantis.
  • + 2
 A sliding system in frame and isn't kashima coated!!!?? That can't be real!
  • + 5
 I'll put my sliding system in your mom's frame
  • + 2
 > Scroll down > The video is password protected > Scroll down for password > Echap
  • + 3
 We can't wait to get this bike in stock!!! It's amazing!!!
  • + 2
 I'll be waiting for a good look on this bike's second iteration.
  • + 1
 That suspension system looks promising. 29er 160 needed !! Press fit, AGAIN? NO THANKS !!
  • + 1
 Still riding my Maverick ML8 and loving it. Interesting to hear how that design concept is still alive and kicking.
  • + 1
 Cannondale Fulcrum back to life!!!! Hurray!!!! Hey RC, was Darrell Voss a Fulcrum engineer ?
  • + 1
 I have to ask... if he worked for Klein. Did he have anything to do with the Mantra?
  • + 1
 I'm really hoping this won't win "bike of the year" or smthn because when it does, the price will go up nearly twice
  • + 1
 A little bit of Yeti sus some Commencal parallel link and the looks of San Andreas. Like it.
  • + 2
 DW link already pedals well enough and looks clean, why do I need this?
  • + 2
 The name sounds a lot like a Trek Fuel EX9 with ReAktiv..... Hmmmmmm
  • + 2
 I would like to try it. Maybe even buy it!
  • + 2
 im a fan of ugly bikes that hide the true real beauty
  • + 1
 I think it looks pretty cool. I'd like to ride one. Like the out of the box thinking. It just may work!
  • + 1
 Very cool. I like it. I'm not a big fan of the colors, but I like the silhouette. Awesome looking suspension action, too.
  • + 2
 Oh...Ride very little rebound on my single pivot too. That's how it works.
  • + 2
 If it rides like they say.....WANT.
  • + 3
 OMG I want to ride this.
  • + 1
 Do we know if someone has raced a prototype to see how it compares to other bikes?
  • + 5
 CousCous raced it in Tasmania EWS last week
  • + 1
 Form follow function. It's challenging my idea of of what is an aestheticly pleasing machine; however, I kind of like it.
  • + 1
 the rear swing arm looks like my first bike...a 1999 Saracen Raw 2 from halfords.
  • + 1
 Stick a 12sp gearbox on it and i'm sold.... granted it's as ugly as an Orange...
  • + 3
 The area where a gearbox might go is full of suspension components.
  • + 1
 @Patrick9-32: correct, but There's two options, you can have the square one with the awesome suspension but with a massive cassette in the rear wheel which means unsprung on the rear wheel that some how it defeats the purpose of the r3act suspension Option two is the zerode taniwha with a gearbox and no unsprung weight in the rear wheel which means a more balanced bike, but then the gearbox is not completely there when it comes to performance for enduro racing, so two very different bikes trying to solve the same problem which is making the perfect bike
  • + 0
 I looks like a space transformer bicycle from the year 2100. I love it! Sadly i know nothing about the kinematics of rear suspension, so I wont comment on that ...
  • + 2
 Water bottle mounts? Razz
  • + 1
 looks dont worry me....the price however
  • + 1
 Besides the ugly can see how it works like the Yeti switch..
  • + 2
 Watch the provided video!! Do people even read these things or do most of you just browse the pictures and then come make dumb comments?
  • + 2
 @mhoshal: lulz - Reading comprehension is not a characteristic strength of the internet mountain biker genus
  • + 1
 @mhoshal: Because as the suspension travels the pivot location changes.
  • + 1
 when this bike available in Indonesia ?
i will test ride Smile )
  • + 0
 I mean it is possible to make a bike that works well and looks great, hello ???
Polygon obviously does not know that.
  • + 1
 I hope this is in kinder joy ^.^
  • + 1
 no room for a motor? Make the universal standard....
  • + 1
 What's up with the rear tire in the last pix?
  • + 1
 Reminds me of the Corsair Crown DH frame with that blow off shock.
  • + 1
 Back-end looks like a Mountain Cycle San Andreas.
  • + 1
 kinda looks like a ebike at first glance
  • + 2
 Looks flexy.
  • + 1
 Agreed!
  • + 1
 COOL BIKE IN THE WORLD. POLYGON.!!!
  • + 2
 nutcracker
  • + 1
 Can I exchange my polygon for this one? Smile
  • + 1
 If master chief rode a mountain bike it'd be this one.
  • + 1
 unless I see it on the EWS podium. I believe nothing.
  • + 1
 When I see it win a world cup xc race, dh and Enduro....I'll buy one .
  • + 1
 Mik
..can I borrow it next time you're in town? I'll give right back.
  • + 0
 it's that ugly and rides that well that i need to ride one put my demons to bed!
  • + 1
 This bike "IS" the future
  • + 1
 I'd ride it, if it delivers on the ride, I can hold back the vomit
  • + 1
 This is honking bit of kit. This wins Ugliest bike.
  • + 1
 That's beautiful. It looks like horses fucking.
  • + 1
 iss it something like I-drive from GT?
  • + 1
 @Dmitry81 nope, not even close.
  • - 2
 They just took Mountain Cycle's parts and install it into a carbon chasis. I thought that nothing could be uglier than Mountain Cycle, but new Polygon beat him in a heart beat!
  • + 1
 Perfect bike to put a gearbox onto with that BB design
  • + 0
 Or not. A friend has had a zerode for all of 1month and the gearbox broke while riding. Maybe from a pedal strike..either way, the pedals froze and had to deal with some high speed turns with cranks stuck. Now its a big repair scenario
  • + 1
 Daaaamn daniel, I like it.
  • + 1
 Does anyone else think this looks like a porygon from pokemon?
  • + 1
 A Cannondale Fulcrum fucked a Yeti 303.
  • + 1
 Looks more like the C'dale Super V did the deed.
  • + 1
 Its a hell better rhan that ugly as fk bike they got out atm
  • + 2
 Sick!
  • + 0
 ....... so it's a dw-link suspension just made uglier?
  • + 1
 So its not an E-bike?
  • + 1
 Thankfully
  • + 2
 @jrocksdh: Looks like one though!
  • + 1
 @Boxxer1237: yep..1st oic doesnt help, makes the HA look all steep like an etard.
Lookn fwrd to see the 'other' companies iteration.
  • + 1
 @jrocksdh: Yeah, you also got that turbo levo lookin bb.
  • + 0
 Thing looks like it weighs 50pds.
  • + 3
 Apparently it's around 13.66kg (30.12 lbs) without pedals.
  • + 0
 @Jacquers: beast. That's a carbon frame isn't it?
  • + 1
 I guess we'll always assume its not light if the weight isnt given..pb comments usually deliver
  • + 1
 The size large weighs 13.94 kg (30.67 pounds) A bit heavy for a carbon trail bike, but considering that it has 180mm of wheel travel, it has to be able to be designed strong enough to be ridden as a single-crown DH bike.
  • + 1
 What's it weigh?(frame)
  • + 1
 I miss my Maverick
  • - 2
 So essentially, it's the one of ugliest bikes you'll ever see, is pretty conservative geometry-wise, but has one of the best suspension systems available.
  • + 0
 That 29er has to be a BMC...
  • + 0
 Find it beautiful, specially without those yellow stickers...
  • + 1
 @andrextr

Thoughts?
  • + 2
 It has an anti-squat that increases along the travel (where you don't need it), causing higher chaingrowth and pedal kickback than traditional bikes. Secondly the leverage ratio is almost constant, which translates into low progressivity for a 180mm bike. I'm not conviced about this design. Smile
  • + 0
 Polyvon....what is the minimum height range for the med frame?
  • - 1
 this looks like some thing cannondale would have made in the mid 90's crossed with a crack head.
  • + 0
 When is the 29er coming? ARe they available as a frame/shock?
  • + 0
 I may have missed this in the article. How much?
  • + 0
 It doesn't look too bad... what do you think @beeboo ?
  • + 5
 It's definitely interesting! The frame is kind of fugly but the suspension design is very cool. It's great to see a new suspension lay out being offered. My only question is how do you clean the telescoping monostay swingarm when it gets covered in mud, and how do you take it apart to service?
  • + 1
 hell yes!
  • + 1
 Looks like it's broke...
  • + 0
 Wow that's ugly. Definitely not a buyer.
  • + 1
 The humps and bends in the toptube are killing the looks...clean that up so i can look at it without squinting.
  • - 1
 Why utilize a round sliding stanchion when a square one would have been more stiff?
  • + 7
 Because "square o-ring" is an oxymoron
  • + 1
 without harping an about seals, Square Ones are harder to keep clean and smooth
  • + 1
 Cliff notes?
  • + 0
 Cue the Form over function debate......again.
  • + 0
 JUST NO! On every level.
  • - 3
 ugly,waiting on a review of its downhill prowess , or lack of
  • - 2
 Square one, round hole!
  • - 2
 Looks like a session
  • - 3
 Host link i-drive suspension?
  • - 1
 MY EYES!!!!
  • - 1
 Dennis looks like Darrel
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