Porsche Acquires Majority Stake in Greyp eBikes

 It's the VW group. Don't expect better.

 You beat me to comment on that line. How exactly producing 150k+ cars is sustainable? Sustainable mobility are mass commuter solutions not Taycans and 911s.

 Porsche is one of the first manufacturers who is replacing carbon fiber with natural fiber composites for semi structural and structural applications. Not saying that buying a Porsche is better for the environment than a small electric car, but they certainly are a driver for sustainable solutions in their market segment.

 @SleepingAwake: You cannot just buy "sustainability". A luxury car manufacturer isn't sustainable by their very nature. Cars are 40% of the problem. Does that mean I could roll coal down to buy some e company shares and call myself sustainable?

 Look at how many are still going strong in their fourth or fifth decade. Well beyond the price of most people (me included) but at least they don't fall to pieces at 5 years.

 Isn't there a rule that a car company should produce cars about this (value) fuel efficient? So for average car manufacturers that'd be the compromise between efficient and low acquisition price. For luxury car manufacturers that implies that they can only continue producing fuel guzzlers if they offset that with other cars with low emission.

 @SleepingAwake: That is such a strange thing to do, because the toxic ingredient in carbon fiber is not the carbon but the resin holding it together.

 @SleepingAwake: it’s a luxury product, just like mtn biking there’s is NO arguing it in anyway that’s ‘sustainable’. Sustainable is good but it’s used out of context all the time anymore. Any modern man made manufactured item is not indefinitely sustainable.

 I bet you there are no Taycans that still run in 50 years. Plenty of ICE Porsches do. Perhaps in that respect they are becoming less sustainable. The best thing for the planet would be to ban the manufacture of new cars.ake the ones we already have last and last buy repair and replacement of parts only when necessary.

 @littleskull99: yeah i fully agree with your statement. Nonetheless they are taking steps in the right direction which hopefully will be implemented by other brands in different market segments.

@Startgas: You are wrong about this, in a carbon composite part the fibre is responsible for the vast majority of the CO2 emissions. Even with recycled carbon the impact comes still mostly from the fibres.

 @littleskull99: But, He didn't suggest Porsche is a model of sustainability. He wrote that due to their R&D efforts, they are a driver for sustainable solutions in their market segment. I think if you reread what he wrote, you'll see he wrote nothing contentious.

 @SleepingAwake: Interesting, I had no idea. Just looked it up. Immediately made me wonder if anyone in the bike industry is looking at the same material. Not clear on why anyone is downvoting you, you were spot on and acknowledging that Porsche is no angle regardless. Oh well, PB comments...

 @littleskull99: Did you mean this for Sleeping? All I saw is he pointed out the new material, which I find pretty interesting and hopefully the bike industry is at least looking into it.

 @Startgas: Yes and no, depends on your definition of "toxic". The actual carbon fibers are rather hard to recycle, and take more energy to create than the Flax version. So basically they seem to have solved for one of the two parts, which I think is pretty cool?

 @colincolin: You won't believe how low their emissions are.

 @not-really: Lightyear are producing the "One", a 150K car and I would consider them reasonably sustainable.

 @SleepingAwake: not to mention vegan interior options

 maybe more of their cars are still around than the shitboxes like Corollas etc?

 Smoke and mirrors, they have practice. Remember WWII, ever do any research on what Porsche was up to in the 40's???

 @AC-Fabz: Ehrm, what was BMW doing during the first and second war then? And how is that relevant to bicycles with pedal assist now?

I think flax and hemp are high performance fibres and are already commonly used in car interiors. They're actually strong enough for structural parts too but the big challenge for engineers is that the performance isn't as controlled as industrially produced fibres/metals/plastics so it is harder to critically design. But even during the second world war, a wooden plane like the Haviland Mosquito was superior as they were just better at making stuff from wood than from metals back then. Plus the material was more available. So yeah, we may revisit that time in a way. You can ship materials from the other side of the world where they are mined, or you can grow them locally. Conservation (paint, impregnation) may then compromise end of life disposal, but even if you burn them you'll be CO2 neutral. If you manage to breed a fungus that eats even through conserved material, you can actually retrieve some nutrients and put them back in the soil. Maybe this will never happen, but I think it could be cool if it would. The big driver will be scarcity of energy and materials. I just doubt that Porsche is the best brand to present the solution.

 @jaame: I'd instead argue (along with banning ICE) mandating all new electric vehicles MUST have modular and standardized batteries, control units, and motors; this way as battery technology improves it's not a problem to 'upgrade' your old EV's instead of replacing them! My 1998 Trek 920 is now in it's 5th reincarnation: XC, trail riding, touring, commuting, now winter beater... It had great fundamentals when new, and after 23 years it rides substantially better than the day it left the factory thanks to modern drivetrains, tires, cockpit, wheels, and fork.

 @littleskull99 100% agree with you. One interesting thing is that the very first vehicle Ferdinand Porsche made was a wagon that was powered by an electric transmission that was powered by a gas motor. He won a race on that thing as well. So, as far as I know it was the first hybrid, it was made in 1890. It's the first vehicle you will see at the Porsche museum in Stuttgart Germany. The second vehicle that has the Porsche name is another hybrid that had 4 electric motors at each wheel, and was powered by a gas motor. #sorryforbeinganerd

 @nzandyb: That is a good idea. If it were up to me I would ban the school run before I banned the ICE. I would also ban single driver journeys in full size cars. I would encourage car companies to make desirable fully enclosed scooters or one/two seat cars with small engines for the majority of journeys in which only one person is in the vehicle. I would also take out as many traffic lights as possible and replace them with tree covered roundabouts - the stop start is a terrible cause of pollution.

While I'm at it, I would cut the impact of water treatment and degrade the water quality we have piped to our homes. We treat all of our water to potable standards, and then flush 95% of it down the drain (according to my water bill, 95% of it is taken away as sewerage). We literally only drink 5% of the water we use, and we use drinking water to wash away our turds. Not very environmentally responsible.

I would certainly back a return to the old days where people fixed shit instead of throwing it away. This should come through culture and not legislaton though. Hopefully it will happen as the younger generation comes to power.

Another thing I would do instead of making meat illegal (which I think we are heading towards) is to simply ban commercial butchers. Make people kill and butcher their own animals and meat consumption will plummet. I could handle doing a chicken or a goat, but I doubt I would eat beef again and I love beef.

What else? Ah yes. Too many people. The human population needs to be cut in half somehow. Amazing to think that in 1870 there were only a billion people alive. Someone needs to think of a way to convince people to stop having kids for a couple of generations. Perhaps encouraging dog/cat ownership would be a good bet.

 @AyJayDoubleyou:
Not really impressive. Many of those old sport cars have not much miles on the clock.

 @SleepingAwake: the C02 impact is from the fibers, but the resin creates significant gas and metal pollution makes it unrecyclable in most cases (some allow you to burn it off with more pollution) so...you're both right

 @jaame:
Funny how you can make fundamentally illiberal ideas (ban this, prohibit that, reduce the population, etc) appeal to liberals if you wrap them up in an eco context.

Have a look at what you just wrote and ask yourself what major political movement of the 20th century it has most in common with. You may not like the answer.

I find a lot of this kind of talk worrying - it has all the self righteous zeal of a religious movement, and little regard for nuance or the actual reality of the world.

JP

 @Chuckolicious: Urge atleast used to use a woven natural material in there helmet shells as an alternative to carbon not to sure if thats still the case now though

 @Chuckolicious: Some bike companies have already offered bikes with natural fibers (usually Flax) in place of some of the carbon. Usually they have claimed superior vibration damping as the main benefit. The two that spring to mind are Look and Museeuw on their road bikes.

 @thekaiser: Thanks for the leads! I wonder if bars and saddles might be a good application. I had a raw uncovered CF saddle decades ago. Weighed nothing, but just imagine if it had a failure!

 @littleskull99: The air their factories put exhaust is allegedly cleaner than what went in, and they say the same about their cars if you're driving around the city. They're also working on synthetic fuels which take more carbon out of the air to produce than they put back when they burn it.

So there are many things they are doing which are progressing the industry forward, even if all of it is so they can sell more flat 6s.

 @Jprestidge: Funny how you can make a wealthy capitalist suddenly embrace socialism; just move to pass laws to force them to pay for the externalized costs of their products (health issues caused by pollution, damage due to global warming, etc), and all of a sudden they don't feel like they should bear the full costs of the production of the items they are selling, and want the cost to be borne by the taxpayers.

Honestly, I am fine with people producing nearly anything, as long as they bear the cost of cleaning up after themselves (and presumably bake it into the cost of the goods sold).

 @dontcoast: what do you mean by "gas and metal pollution" ? the life cycle of a flax part with incineration with energy recuperation has less global warming potential than just even recycling waste carbon fiber. There are also significant efforts in using naturally sources for resin production, which again would lower the CO2 emissions over the life cycle

 @Jprestidge: You raise a good point. Restrict the media, conscript civilians, completely reorient the economy to war, ship thousands into camps. And that was just the British government in the face of a political movement in the 20th century. Sometimes, against an existential threat, otherwise terrifying illiberal ideas suddenly make a lot more sense.

 @Ozziefish: Means never justify any ends, because the means always end up becoming the ends, to paraphrase Huxley.

JP

 @SleepingAwake: Yes Funny that Henry Ford made a car out of hemp, only his solution was to continue to use steel & hemp was banned, such forward thinking?

 @AyJayDoubleyou: some not without a great deal of maintenance. But at least the early 2000's cars (fried egg era) are attainable for the average joe (sort of, could be had for 18-25k), provided you have $1500 to spend replacing the IMS bearing.

 @SimonD: Not a chance. Corollas last forever and here in NE US they only finally die as they succumb to rust and road salt. I'd argue the Corolla owner has a lower carbon footprint as they can drive that car into the ground, and are likely one-vehicle people rather than Porsche owners who typically own at least one other vehicle.

 "I don't always post, but when I do I make sure to do zero research before spouting off my nonsense"
-littleskull99, probably

 more carbon tax credits please

 @SleepingAwake: I was saying the resin used in most CFRP today leads to offgassing and heavy metal contamination. Basically, removing the carbon fibers is an amazing step in reducing carbon footprint, but let's not pretend there aren't other significant pollution issues with composites.

(I bring this up because the "global warming/c02 conversation has an unfortunate tendency to ignore other pollution/habitat impacts of the industrial anthropocene)

I am 100% for flax (or hemp) fiber with low-impact resins and am thrilled there are significant efforts to improve such technology.

 @dontcoast: If you use a fiber like hemp or flax, it is even more important to use less toxic resins as when you have exposed fibers (which you get when you have air bubbles trapped during the RTM process) they will work as runners to vent the toxic stuff to the outside. Plus of course, it should always be a consideration whereas we should indeed carry toxic stuff into nature for our recreation. We already have teflon-free chain lubes (been using Green Oil for fifteen years or so now) but the big elephant obviously is our tires rubbing off as we're enjoying ourselves.

 ugliest ish with the name Porsche on

 These flat pedals look like 2010. Look a these cables on the seatpost, too. Actually the whole bike looks like an eBike from many years ago. I wonder if someone has just bought a rare old e-MTB on ebay, and sold the "technology" to Porsche

 I’m have not owned a non e bike in almost 3 years, but if that was my only option I would not be riding an e bike. Quite possibly the ugliest one I have had the displeasure of looking at!

 needs a banana seat and then I'd be ok with it

 Agreed, I'm amazed at how they can get away with that when their parent company makes such beautiful electric cars!

 @jaznomore: and some bars end also a few more cables...

 Yeah I feel greyp'd just looking at it

 The first ebike they produced was not ugly enough, so they acquired the only manufacturer with an uglier bike.

 Hey man, Porsche's might be dated in their car design but they're not that bad!

 @scott-townes: the 928 was a pretty fast and good looking ride back in its day.

 @xxinsert-name-herexx: LOL did you just say Jaguar and reliable in the same sentence? 911's have always been solid (other than some odd engine issues with the 996), other Porsches maybe not so much.

 As far as ebikes go, par for the course.

 But they are still under the same roof now?

 @FuzzyL: He is building a new campus and it was said that Greyp will have part of it..

 Its doesn’t need one, its has the latest synergy drive hybrid hydration system that ‘reuses’ sweat from your butt crack when used in conjunction with the Porsche Osmosis Omentum shorts. The future is brown!

 you don't work up a sweat on an ethingy. Well you might when you're putting it on the bike rack etc.

 @nukedchipp: you do when the battery of the brake-by-wire system goes flat on a double black run...

 Wouldn’t you just have your butler jog along beside you? Who carries their own water?!?

 What’s a Porche? Is that like a really fancy porch?

 It’s their new porch division

 Person who rode their normal bike to the trailhead - "excuse me, do you have any GREYPoupon?"

 @americandentalassociation: lol i guess i have to retract my comment due to spelling.

 Rn01

 It's like brands from the same conglomerate buying out each other, what's the point in this ? It's all different flavours of golfs in the end.

 @Balgaroth: hahaha

 The market for Bugatti's is not really expanding. The market for e bikes on the other hand, certainly is. The willingness of people to spend $10k+ on one proves the point.

 Having been in a Taycan turbo S, i dont think anyone is going to notice the 0.3 seconds extra it took to get to 60, however, they will notice the fact their Plaid isnt stopping after going warpspeed due to its cruddy braking performance. thats quite a big selling point to me lol.

 @MartyMcfly2810: the bigger issue is that it’s a mass production Porsche with a base price of £140k, with no charging infrastructure.

 Greyps of wrath

 Did a stone get into your eyes?

 @xxinsert-name-herexx: ha-ha. Early morning comment, still waking up.