Raaw Announces Madonna V2 with Updated Frame Design & Geometry
The first Madonna was launched in 2017 and started the journey of Raaw. Since then we’ve been very privileged to meet many riders and share endless kilometres of trails. It’s been an amazing experience so far.
As it goes in life things evolve and change, we gather experience and constantly aim to improve. The Madonna V2 is the result of all the riding, observing and chin-scratching we have done over the past two years.
As it goes in life things evolve and change, we gather experience and constantly aim to improve. The Madonna V2 is the result of all the riding, observing and chin-scratching we have done over the past two years.
Raaw Madonna V2
• 29" wheels
• Travel front/ back: 170mm (180) / 160mm
• External cables, threaded BB
• 6066 aluminium
• Double sealed pivots
• Available end of February
• Black and Raw color options
• Frame kits from 2.290 Euro (incl VAT) or $2137 USD (excl VAT)
• 29" wheels
• Travel front/ back: 170mm (180) / 160mm
• External cables, threaded BB
• 6066 aluminium
• Double sealed pivots
• Available end of February
• Black and Raw color options
• Frame kits from 2.290 Euro (incl VAT) or $2137 USD (excl VAT)
Geometry
The Madonna V2 adds a size small, upping the family to four sizes. Medium has grown to 455mm reach. Large and extra-large also gain some length. The steps between the four sizes are now evenly distributed with 25mm reach steps between sizes and 15mm head tube length steps. The four sizes feature three different seat tube angles to maintain a very balanced and centered seated position that still leaves some room for the upper body to move.
The geometry numbers are now based around a 170mm travel fork. The option of 180mm travel up front will also fit the Madonna V2 like a dream, but would alter the geometry slightly.
With the Madonna V2 we’ve reinforced what the first Madonna was initially designed for. While being an excellent climber the focus still remains on downhill performance. The head angle is slackened to 64.5˚ and accompanied by a 44mm offset fork. The reach and stack numbers have grown giving the bike an even more planted character.
The geometry numbers are now based around a 170mm travel fork. The option of 180mm travel up front will also fit the Madonna V2 like a dream, but would alter the geometry slightly.
With the Madonna V2 we’ve reinforced what the first Madonna was initially designed for. While being an excellent climber the focus still remains on downhill performance. The head angle is slackened to 64.5˚ and accompanied by a 44mm offset fork. The reach and stack numbers have grown giving the bike an even more planted character.
Dropout Inserts
We use different chain stay lengths between frame sizes because we believe it’s very important to have balance between the front and rear of the bike. But we also appreciate that riders have their own preferences. Therefore, we’ve designed the dropouts with inserts. The different frame sizes come with growing chain stay lengths following what we think fits best. But we also offer additional inserts in our shop so you can change and experiment with different chain stay lengths.
Rocker 60 & Rocker 65
The suspension of the Madonna V2 is designed around two different rocker links, the Rocker 60 and the Rocker 65. Both rocker links generate 160mm of travel at the rear wheel, each with just over 20% of progression. But the differentiating factor is the shock stroke. The Rocker 60 uses 60mm of stroke on the shock to generate 160mm of travel at the rear wheel. The Rocker 65 uses 65mm of stroke to produce the 160mm of travel. This results in a higher leverage ratio for the Rocker 60 that is best suited for riders up to 90kg and a lower leverage ratio for the Rocker 65 that is best for riders over 90kg.
Riders on the lighter end of the scale benefit from the Rocker 60 with more mechanical leverage that helps the damping and adds to the small bump sensitivity. The Rocker 65 enables heavier riders to run a lower air pressure or spring rate and happy damping for the shock.
The different stroke lengths on the shock are fixed internally but based around the same shock. A 205 x 60 shock can be modified to 205 x 65 and vice versa. But this needs to be done directly by FOX.
The Rocker 65 (left) is best for rider over 90 kg, the Rocker 65 (right) is best for rider up to 90 kg
Design
The refined top tube design reaffirms our core direction at Raaw, where functionality and durability are highest priorities. The straight top tube makes for increased bottle cage space and helps save weight.
Two fresh gussets are used to guarantee smooth transitions between tubes in key areas.
Comparing to the previous Madonna, the weight of the Madonna V2 has reduced by 150g. This is down to the new top tube design, allowing for an extended thinner tube section, and by adding the Super Leggero AL7075 hardware as standard.
Frame Protection
The Madonna V2 features a new down tube protector. The protector is made from soft 5mm thick rubber and can simply be stuck to the frame. It covers the full width of the down tube and extends over the bottom bracket weld.
A new chain stay protector is also made from soft rubber and features a ribbed pattern to silence chain-slap. The ribs are exaggerated towards the front and cover every single bit of chain stay that would otherwise be exposed to the chain. The chain stay protector can also simply be stuck to the frame.
The inside of the right seat stay is also protected with a pre-cut silicon piece.
Gear Storage
The Madonna V2 features an external gear storage solution, allowing different options for the rider. Two bottle cage bosses under the top tube accept mounts from accessory brands, like Wolf Tooth, offering straps and bags for personalized storage.
A bottle cage mount is standard on all sizes. Size small and medium can fit a 500 ml bottle, size large and extra-large have plenty of space for any bottle. Even beer.
Main Pivot
Updated main pivot caps eliminate any potential creaky noises and ensure a quiet bike ride after ride. The main pivot nut evolves and uses the Shimano Bottom Bracket tool interface for tightening.
The Madonna V2 avoids beating around the bush and comes standard with a 203mm brake mount on all sizes. 180mm brake mounts are also available, if that’s what you prefer.
The Madonna V2 up in the mountains of Champery
The trails in Morgins, Switzerland, deliver the good stuff
Berms like bathtubs
For more information click here.
MENTIONS: @ShapeRideShoot
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I'g strongly consider a 160/140 (F/R) version.
Still, so much to love.
I love this bike and the design principles but for the trails I have available 150 (160)F / 140 rear is about right.
RAAW, ANY chance of a shorter travel version in the future?
Cheers to design evolution. This bike looks sick too though....... for a fraction of the cost too.....
Buy Offset bushings for the lower shock mount
Buy a DVO Topaz 2 Shock and reduce the travel to what you prefer via those special spacers (not volume spacers but stroke limiters)
-> identical geometry at sag, eg 140mm back, good uphill position
What's the next model? The CardiB?
It's a name referencing the symbol of the ultimate woman and/or bike... very fitting if you ask me.
But yes, most uninformed Americans might simply think of the old pop star.
2020 Knolly Warden
1. Stout, meticulously detailed, best in the biz aluminum frame, w/ storage or spot for Di2 built-in under the frame protection (built in the same factory as RAWW bikes).
2. Top notch suspension system
3. 160 R / 160 or 170 F
4. Geo size L: Reach = 500, WB = 1251, STA = 77, HTA = 64.75 (64.25 w/ 170)
5. RAWW has adjustable stroke/shock... Knolly has adjustable geo/progression
Wheel-size is different... 27.5 for Knolly, 29 for RAWW... but that's personal preference and Knolly is currently slowly revamping their entire line, will probably have a longer travel 29'r next year. Or get the same features, quality and specs in the shorter travel 29r (135/150 or 160) in the Fugitive LT.
I'm sure it's a great bike, some people rave about their suspension, but compared to the RAAW MAV2 it's a whole different animal. Also those multiple tiny pivots VS the large main pivot, frame aesthetics, Knolly's always gonna have that odd offset seat post due to their linkage. But at least that gives them space for a front derailleur mount...?
And also, super boost can kiss my ass...
I stand by my comment. The Warden might have better geo but it still lacks some features of the RAAW. (and has tiny wheels)
Pivots are only small on ow stress locations, otherwise, though not a large as the Madonna (overkill for the marketing?) they turn on titanium pivots with dual row angular contact bearings. Offset seatpost allows zero issues with long droppers with long insertions at all frame sizes.
As for 157 spacing... everyone is entitled to their own opinion. For me, after riding one for a year, selling it and demoing many many bikes... I won't go back to a bike without it.
Anyway, both great bikes that rip hard and are super durable... great choices to have!!
Totally admit that a tube in the battery compartment is a genius "hack", but accessing something behind 5 bolts is not a storage "feature".
Admit that Knollys titanium hardware and angular contact bearing might be a match in quality/longevity, etc. even though smaller? But generally speaking having larger and less pivots is better. (but no way can I prove that so I'll let that go...)
The offset seatpost thing is just aesthetics and mostly irrelevant. Some Knolly sizes/builds are pretty sweet looking, but sometimes they just look "off", mostly as STA's get steeper than there is that "gap"? Aesthetically the RAAWMAV2 might be a little simple these days, but I think those clean lines are part of why it looks so good! Now I'd ride an ugly bike that was better... But if you can ride a sweet looking bike that is better than that = win!
Yes the MAV2 is only adjusted "if" you spec one rocker or the other. But that is a feature nobody else I've heard of offering... An OE optional rocker link to tune their suspension for heavier/harder hitting riders..? Aftermarket has done this. Compatible rocker links to change travel has been done. But for OE and an option at purchase, not just charging you more money for a later upgrade? That is new to me? and AWESOME! This is like the dream of about 50% of Sentinel riders...
At any rate I'd say that for a 120mm bike the Fugitive was "up to date" - modern geo. I would not really say it was "progressive" for a 2019 release? Plenty of other 120 29ers had already been there. For whatever reason Knolly came to market with a short travel 29er trail bike at the same time everybody else was coming to market with new long travel 29ers...?
The Fugitive LT was a great idea to bring a longer travel 29er to market quickly! BUT, that mostly same geo from the 120mm bike on a 135/150-160 bike is certainly not progressive and might not even be considered "up to date" compared to bikes that were already around.
157 is fine as long as the designer can keep the stays narrow enough. But also don't think it's necessary outside of DH? Granted that is a thought experiment as I've never done a back to back to see what 157 would offer. However I've been burned by proprietary and changing standards and so I'm always going to be wary of the two...
In the end though the whole discussion is kind of moot. (which didn't stop me from spending an hour writing this...
Watch, tonight on PB... Aluminum Knolly Warden 29er just released...
As for 157... I as well, wondered "why bother?". Then I rode the Fugitive for an extended period and during this time didn't even really notice the difference too much. It wasn't until I then demo'd a bunch of other burly bikes (Santa Cruz Megatower, etc), that I did notice a difference, and now I can't go back. You should read Knolly's explanation... which I know can be explained away as marketing BS, but if you know Noel at all, you know he's not one to bullshit anyone (having a beer with him on Friday), he's an engineering guy first and at heart and his numbers and data are not overblown. It would really have made a lot of sense for the industry as a whole to just move from 142 straight to 157 and all bikes would have been on the same standard (DH, Trail, Enduro, etc...) - www.knollybikes.com/engineering
Also worth reading a couple of the interviews Noel has done... offers some perspective on the company, their philosophy and why their such a great company to support beyond the bikes being so good.
www.pinkbike.com/news/behind-the-bike-knollys-new-fugitive.html
nsmb.com/articles/knolly-founder-noel-buckley-interview (this one's a little older)
In the NSMB article he says a carbon fugitive would be available in 8 months? Wonder what's up with that. Then he also says he went to 157 to get shorter rear stays. Even he bows out of the "stronger wheel" argument. Also mentions how the slack offset forward seat tube is key to building a 29er for clearance.
Very interesting reading about his thoughts and experiences and the hurdles to go through making mountain bikes in another country, especially when your a smaller company. I can see how his brand has built such a following, reading through some of the comments has the kind of dedication that reminds me of Turner back in the day. (wonder how Big S and others using a similar suspension concepts got around his 4by4 patent?)
At any rate, yes good chat!
Also, are these coil friendly and can they be purchased without a shock?
Regardless, this looks like a really great bike with tons of well thought out details.
Honestly one of the reasons why I bought said bike. Would be ace to get some more cable management on the frame for shock levers too. Honestly would swap my ransom frame for a Raaw if it did this.
But I run a 29 in the rear mostly at home when I am on flatter stuff and just general trail riding an climbing.
What about a fr 160/150 + r140mm 29er?
So if you get a frame you could likely swap out to whatever guides you needed if you change setup.
A shame really, but I guess it's better to try and do one thing really well than try and compromise by introducing more flip chips etc, especially as they are a smaller company.
Still love the look of it though, just wish I was taller!
@jaame, to be fair Raaw looks like it is a nicer frame set with some more features. Privateer is a no nonsense build, big fan of the concept tho & will most likely be picking one up for my next rig.
More build options would be nice, as the stock builds are a little out of my range.
Its it really just all good with next to no draw backs? I always wonder if geo changes are truly fixing "flawed" Geo where the pros vastly outweigh the cons...or if its more of a give-and-take. Sounds like your experience is more of the former. Thanks man
/sarc
13.8kg, perfect fit for agressive AM/EN rides! More in my gallery.
It also looks nice.
I love to see small and courageous companies grow.
Maybe one day a handy and ripping 27 RAAW ?
enduro-mtb.com/en/raaw-madonna-v2-fox-factory-built-review-2020
Best value by Enduro Magazine.
"The Rocker 65 (left) is best for rider over 90 kg, the Rocker 65 (right) is best for rider up to 90 kg"
agree would be looking at a 160/140 frame next but thats nice!
You're seriously trying to steer buyers away from Nicolai?
Same money, same material, similar geometry (albeit 2 sizes up), less adjustability, but one is made in Germany, one isn't
People always disliked me for saying this :-).
Still waiting for an e-stay version though!
geometrygeeks.bike/bike/raaw-madonna-v2-2020
Congrats Ruben!
I was drooling at the details just now: Main pivot is not too low as in some other 4bar horst link designs, the tunable chainstay length,protection in the correct places and different wight oriented rocker link and bearings on every single pivot.
Then I visited the website and looked at the hardware page. Nice
Congratulations for the thouroughly thought out and executed bike!
Would a Fox X2 fit too?
*Official start of the pun sub-thread hopefully
And.......GO!.......
Ah I was reading it as the first was unsaged and the second was sagged and couldn’t work out why the large and xl was the same, my bad.
us.yt-industries.com/detail/index/sArticle/2340/sCategory/260
That being said, if you're buying complete, you need to buy the top of the line Capra to have the same level component spec as the Raaw and it's actually more expensive (though its carbon frame leaves it .7 kg lighter). And despite the lighter weight, it pedals worse than the Raaw and is less playful, so I'm not sure it matters.
In the biz, they call your argument a "straw man", because like straw, it won't stand up, and anyone looking at it will know that it's not a "real boy".
S: 71
M: 72.5
L: 78.5
XL: 78.5
is that right??
size virtual actual
S 77 71
M 77.6 72.5
L 78.2 74
XL 78.2 74
Change the bolts?
I made it through the wilderness
Somehow I made it through
Didn't know how lost I was
Until I found you
I was beat
Incomplete
I'd been had, I was sad and blue
But you made me feel
Yeah, you made me feel
Shiny and new
Hoo, like a virgin
Touched for the very first time
Like a virgin
When your heart beats
Next to mine
Gonna give you all my love, boy
My fear is fading fast
Been saving it all for you
'Cause only love can last
You're so fine
And you're mine
Make me strong, yeah you make me bold
Oh your love thawed out
Yeah, your love thawed out
What was scared and cold
Like a virgin, hey
Touched for the very first time
Like a virgin
With your heartbeat
Next to mine
Whoa
Whoa, ah
Whoa
You're so fine
And you're mine
I'll be yours
'Til the end of time
'Cause you made me feel
Yeah, you made me feel
I've nothing to hide
Like a virgin, hey
Touched for the very first time
Like a virgin
With your heartbeat
Next to mine
Like a virgin, ooh ooh
Like a virgin
Feels so good inside
When you hold me
And your heart beats
And you love me
Oh oh, ooh whoa
Oh oh oh whoa
Whoa oh ho, ho
Ooh baby
Yeah
Can't you hear my heart beat
For the very first time?
I made it through the wilderness
Somehow I made it through
Didn't know how lost I was
Until I found you
I was beat
Incomplete
I'd been had, I was sad and blue
But you made me feel
Yeah, you made me feel
Shiny and new
Hoo, like a virgin
Touched for the very first time
Like a virgin
When your heart beats
Next to mine
Gonna give you all my love, boy
My fear is fading fast
Been saving it all for you
'Cause only love can last
You're so fine
And you're mine
Make me strong, yeah you make me bold
Oh your love thawed out
Yeah, your love thawed out
What was scared and cold
Like a virgin, hey
Touched for the very first time
Like a virgin
With your heartbeat
Next to mine
Whoa
Whoa, ah
Whoa
You're so fine
And you're mine
I'll be yours
'Til the end of time
'Cause you made me feel
Yeah, you made me feel
I've nothing to hide
Like a virgin, hey
Touched for the very first time
Like a virgin
With your heartbeat
Next to mine
Like a virgin, ooh ooh
Like a virgin
Feels so good inside
When you hold me
And your heart beats
And you love me
Oh oh, ooh whoa
Oh oh oh whoa
Whoa oh ho, ho
Ooh baby
Yeah
Can't you hear my heart beat
For the very first time?
I made it through the wilderness
Somehow I made it through
Didn't know how lost I was
Until I found you
I was beat
Incomplete
I'd been had, I was sad and blue
But you made me feel
Yeah, you made me feel
Shiny and new
Hoo, like a virgin
Touched for the very first time
Like a virgin
When your heart beats
Next to mine
Gonna give you all my love, boy
My fear is fading fast
Been saving it all for you
'Cause only love can last
You're so fine
And you're mine
Make me strong, yeah you make me bold
Oh your love thawed out
Yeah, your love thawed out
What was scared and cold
Like a virgin, hey
Touched for the very first time
Like a virgin
With your heartbeat
Next to mine
Whoa
Whoa, ah
Whoa
You're so fine
And you're mine
I'll be yours
'Til the end of time
'Cause you made me feel
Yeah, you made me feel
I've nothing to hide
Like a virgin, hey
Touched for the very first time
Like a virgin
With your heartbeat
Next to mine
Like a virgin, ooh ooh
Like a virgin
Feels so good inside
When you hold me
And your heart beats
And you love me
Oh oh, ooh whoa
Oh oh oh whoa
Whoa oh ho, ho
Ooh baby
Yeah
Can't you hear my heart beat
For the very first time?