Randoms Round 1 - Sea Otter 2023

 I love it because of how much some people hate it.

 @mikekazimer: It honestly looks like something I'd use on my ebike and my mountain bike. Quite handy....and the comments alone would be worth it.

 I'd rock it om my regular bike - it's a big Speed Hole.

 But think of the Superman seat grabs that can happen

 Is it a handle; or a fart vent?

Its Both!

 I hate Dual Control as much as you hate saddle handle. DC never caught on because it was a terrible product, no one wanted or needed in MTB.

 I just walked my bike home because I burped the tire with no pump. Handle would have been handy.

 I thought it was to mitigate a higher incidence of Sharting amongst e-bike users.

 Its an easy place to hook up the tow rope for the non-ebike riders...

 @suspended-flesh: nothing lighter than a hole!

 Guessing you hate bikes but this saddle makes so much sense. I immediately bought one when I saw it. Aside from moving the bike around easily with my nuked shoulder it makes for the perfect place to attach a tow bungee to get my groms up the hill for some laps.

 Saddle handle like dirtbikes have. Next we will have front and back tugg straps too ? Funny how even without trying bike engineers are slowly but surely reinventing the dirtbike lol.

 Your mate can hold on for a tow-up

 @Dustfarter: traxmtb.com

 @mikekazimer: I can’t believe it doesn’t come with an inter grated beer bottle opener? What an R&D oversight.

 I can totally see the value of it on my e-commuter bike, but I'd be totally wary of fitting it to any bike with a dropper, because sooner or latter you're gonna forget to raise the seat first, and then......

 @lumpy873: oh yeah! Trailer hitch!

 @RonSauce But you can now lift your bike... yes its true... you can Lift Your Bike!! how can you hate that selling point!

 @clalonde: they should have put a beer bottle opener on it like is 2019 and round out its usefulness.

 @mikekazimer: I think it is because the shape is outdated. The original JEM is from 1987. Steve Vai updated it last year or so and it is now called PIA (Paradise in Art, not what you were thinking). People were expecting these holes in the saddle. If you buy a saddle for your e-bike in 2023, it shouldn't look too vintage.

 If you spot a rider using this saddle out on the trail, shout "A hole!"

 @Balgaroth: they’ve added the motors back….

 If you cant lift your ebike with out that seat get the hell off the trail. I agree. Hate it.

 @ceedub72: of course you could….but easier is the way of the ebike.

 It's the combination of ti seat rails yet designed for heavy bikes that really makes it bike industry logic.

 I actually may like the seat for my kids' bikes, since you need to carry those on occasion. Not as useful on my bike as I prefer to ride it instead of carry it though.

 Make an e-bike product and name it after devolution. At least they're honest?

 @gnarlysipes: Hard disagree. Still got them on my 04 Enduro which I take out once in a while. And I quickly relearn them, and coupled with Rapid Rise, they really work well. Resto-modded the bike a few years ago to 1x and modern wide rims. Fun little rig, almost like an FS BMX.

 It's 100% going to be the comedic material of all your riding buddies and it's never going to get old. Whenever you go to ride off someone is going to try and grab it.

 Call that the "seatgrab special saddle" and let the 12 years old in me brag about it.

 @bikes-arent-real: Yep, it is the ass grabber special.......

 @vinay: has the shape of people’s grundles changed that much?

 @sfarnum: mine has changed dramatically since 1987

 @gnarlysipes: Dual Control worked fine. My riding buddy and me have been using it until two years ago. Say to use, never had an accidental shift or a problem with braking.
Also, they were just plain fun to play with, just tapping the brake levers down without any force, like flapping your wings.
They didn't catch on because of the inverted shifting which made things unnecessary complicated, and because people feared they would have problems with them, without ever using them.

 You’re all wrong, it’s the best Camp Toilet ever. Buy that saddle, and everyone at the campsite will line up to sit on your bike after coffee each morning. You actually get a warmed up seat to start your ride. Brilliant. Maybe a roll of toilet paper on your handlebars.

 @Hoolie:

 It's actually a hemorrhoid relief channel.

 Holy crap

 @mrgonzo: *holey

 But the tape measure method requires two hands. How do I measure my cockpit and hold my tin of beard wax?

 @mwysel: false, my man. Tape measures have a thumb lock for the tape. =)

 I have noticed that after I have symmetrically setup my cockpit with a measuring tape and my phone level I tend to move my levers a little bit after some rides and tend to end with a slight asymmetry of a millimeter or two

 It is only useful if you have a perfectly symmetric body. That is not very common.

 I just use the angle finder on my phone.

 Sinkbike

 Pretty sure that's a baby elephant's footprint.

 @Nikliss615: Pinkhole?

 @robw515: I feel like that would be a different kind of website.

 Dual Control Shifter/Brakes - not good at either.
Perhaps the worst idea Shimano ever had?

 They're viable again now that we have wide range 9 speed cassettes and Sunrace is building derailleurs that use the old shimano 2:1 cable pull geometry AND include a clutch mechanism which are compatible with such cassettes (the short cage is rated for a 42T, the medium a 46T and the long a 50T).

 @jkwilliamz: Far from their worst idea ever. They're the defacto standard in road bikes and have been for thirty plus years. If they'd SIMPLY introduced them to mountain bikes, without that idiotic low normal derailleur at the same time, and without a shifter body that was so large, they'd have done really well with them. Sometimes Shimano tests a new individual idea at the lower groups exclusively and sometimes at the higher groups exclusively and gets it right. But generally anytime they try and implement multiple ideas without seperate testing FIRST they flop.

Linkglide for example has proven good after testing it with a dedicated XT level group alone. Biopace rings actually were good (at the time) for certain riders, but not in the limited sizes that only worked as a set they offered at the time and not with the more complicated front derailleur adjustments. The ramps and pins on the inside if the big/middle chainrings which XTR debuted in 1992 and became an industry standard after to speed up upshifting, started out as a thing tested on the lower mtb groups that had stamped steel chainrings to solve the slow front shifting of biopace rings with their irregular shape not guaranteeing the front derailleur cage would move the chain over correctly onto the teeth. The alloy biopace rings on the higher groups never got it implemented before shimano abandoned the biopace system altogether but the ramp technology carried over across all the groups eventually and was copied by other brands afterwards.

 They Flip-FLOPPED. I had a pair on a race hardtail and it would wildly shift gears when pulling on the bars.

 Yep, we’ve got some projects in the works. I think taller front ends will become more common, but within reason.

 @mikekazimer: Great stuff, look forward to it. Just when we thought geometry was starting to settle down..!

 Do you have a link to the bar?

 This is a good idea for a test. I like the idea of the 76mm rise. It raises the height without reducing the amount of reach. But like you said it would be interesting to test all of that.

 Technological innovation is complex, requires knowledge/understanding of complex factors and a willingness to think outside the box. Unfortunately that is expensive and takes time. Marketing innovation however……..

 They save energy on human powered bikes too. It's probably a harder compound like Maxx speed or adixx speed. With different marketing.

 They know exactly what they are doing. Most E-MTBs are never ridden in any kind of demanding terrain. But a lot of them are ridden by people with range anxiety.

 Black Sheep bikes has been building that style for years. They’re phenomenal bikes, and this site doesn’t do much Handbuilt goodness, but the Black Sheep’s and Wolfhounds are some of the best around.

 Check out Retrotec

 You don’t want
No scrubs ?

 Just about every hand built frame co. has a bike like this in their lineup. The Radavist.com is a good place to start.

 according to their website they make Ti MTB and gravel frames. They don't mention "cruisers" on their website.

I didn't know they don't make full-sus bikes anymore. Rode one approx 30 yrs ago and it opened my eyes to full-sus bikes

 Checkout State Bikes Klunker, they look almost identical accept for the curved vs straight inner support and downtube. Probably 10% as expensive too. Never ridden their bikes but I want to get one in the future.

 @vhdh666: They announced them on their Instagram page, yesterday, I think...

 They’ll be too distracted by the handle saddle.

 @wmelton14: haha you’re right I totally missed it.

 I'm glad quick release is gone but it's not like they went from thru axles to quick release, qr was an improvement over the threaded bolt on axles that bent or broke just as easily and you had to carry a dang wrench to fix on the trail

 Wasn't shimano's worst idea, just badly implemented and packaged along with an even worse idea, the low normal rear derailleur. If the shifter body had been slimmer as they are with road dual control (which are barely any bigger than a straight aero brake lever) then they'd have had a real winner on their hands.

 @mrgonzo: And its not as if thru-axles weren't tried a long time ago, but until Shimano got on board to offer hubs in thru-axle configurations and partnered with Fox to develop the 15mm standard, we'd still be struggly along most likely with the technology limited to DH/Enduro/Freeride bikes of limited production. A Mountain Cycles Suspenders 2 fork in 1993 had a QR Thru-Axle similar to a modern setup and 12mm in diameter. Manitou offered a bolted thru axle on the EFC-DH fork. Rockshox had a thru axle on the first boxxer in 1996.

 @deeeight: I stand corrected you sir are a mountain bike tech historian

 Can't blame your hand slipped off the saddle when they gave you a handle...

 Dude on Friday fails thumbnail would have made it to Sunday saves with this seat

 Pants or shorts are highly recommended when using this saddle.

 It sure is. Fixed.

 Pit Viper has been doing them... I like mine:
www.pitviper.com/collections/lift-offs

 Would be more relevant if the two current sizes were small and medium and they added a large and extra large to the lineup. The frame does look pretty sweet though.