Results and Overall Standings: World Cup DH Val di Sole - Finals
ELITE MEN
1st // Aaron Gwin
2nd // Loic Bruni
3rd // Troy Brosnan
ELITE MEN OVERALL
1st // Aaron Gwin
ELITE WOMEN
1st // Rachel Atherton
2nd // Myriam Nicole
3rd // Manon Carpenter
4th // Tahnee Seagrave
5th // Tracey Hannah
ELITE WOMEN OVERALL STANDINGS
JUNIOR MEN
1st // Loris Revelli
2nd // Jacob Dickson
3rd // Laurie Greenland
4th // Andrew Crimmins
5th // Thibault Laly
JUNIOR MEN OVERALL STANDINGS
1st // Aaron Gwin
2nd // Loic Bruni
3rd // Troy Brosnan
ELITE MEN OVERALL
1st // Aaron Gwin
ELITE WOMEN
1st // Rachel Atherton
2nd // Myriam Nicole
3rd // Manon Carpenter
4th // Tahnee Seagrave
5th // Tracey Hannah
ELITE WOMEN OVERALL STANDINGS
JUNIOR MEN
1st // Loris Revelli
2nd // Jacob Dickson
3rd // Laurie Greenland
4th // Andrew Crimmins
5th // Thibault Laly
JUNIOR MEN OVERALL STANDINGS
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sorry you think so my friend. I actually made the comment on this page as soon as Emmeline gave her interview on Redbull TV during the build up to the DH in Italy. Subsequently Pinkbike then posted an article based on the interview Emmeline had just given to Rob Warner & Claudio.
wrong article, right article? either way I'm still sure I will not be alone in wishing Emmeline the very best for her future.
Happy trails
New neg me cuz I don't give a shit
Actually Brosnan has gone OTB on the new Demo a lot more often than he did on the old Demo, but Gwin has the skills to manage it. Fun season, the tracks were great this year.
I still maintain my position that the design is dangerous, especially with less skilled riders. My legal position also has not changed: Specialized should provide a disclaimer for customers who purchase this bike that reminds them they have purchased a bicycle with an unstable wheelbase that could potentially compromise traction or send them over-the-bars. I'm surprised their own hyper aggressive legal team isn't on top of this.
does he realy care what axle path he's on?
In this day and age where almost all manufacturers are making custom one-off frames and/or linkages for their athletes, no design can be inferior and still be dominant or successful.
Your opinions are completely discredited by real world experiences. It's time to move along and find a new topic to hate on.
I didn't like the old design of the demo, but imo this asymetric design is really good looking. Plus both gwin's steath paintjob and troy 's black and orange are ace.
- @Protour (March 24th, 2015)
Also was Marcello on porcore or something, and just suffered a half-flat?
That being said, The Demo Setup's that Aaron and Troy ride are very different from the Stock purchase that you and I would make. They have their own personal Mech's that adjust every nook and cranny for them. I think that the one true perspective here is that they are Pro Racer's , this is their life and they adjust accordingly every aspect of their rides, either that be with Fox, Sram, Rockshox, Saint etc.
Leaving Trek and switching to Specialized for Gwin would take some adapting too and yes it took a couple of years but they were spent on adjusting and re-adjusting the ride so that it was customed made just for them.
Anyways, at the end of the day, it all comes down to the rider. They all have factory based bikes that are tuned to their riding styles and its the physical training, lines choices, when to let go of the brakes, variable and adapting conditions and some lady luck that wins it.
Loic has come in 2nd so many many times. Do you honestly think that the difference is between his bike and Gwin's? Hey maybe Gwin is using his old formula of adjusting his fork and shock to higher pressure which would mean much less resistance/impact on the ruts and braking bumps but then again it demands much more control, core stability and muscular endurance.
Today we witnessed Minnar go down. Seriously, I've been following DH for a hell of a long time and I never really saw him fall. He's always in total control. Is it because of the bike he fell? No. It's Human error, long story short.
Troy crashed on a Demo...but still ended up third. Poor Bulldog got sent OTB on his flawless Trek in practice resulting in a knee injury and Minnaar, Danny, and countless others crashed/washed out in finals but they ended up further down the list than Troy. Does this mean the Demo corrects better for user errors more than any other bike out there?? If I apply Protour's warped interpretations of cause and effect, then yes it does.
Again, bikes at this level cannot afford to be even fractions worse than their competitors. They are out to squeeze every possible advantage over the rest, and that cannot be done on a sub-standard platform. Move along Protour, your points are all moot and disproven by simple, everyday experience.
The virtual pivot point is the intersection of these two lines, it is very forward and higher than the BB. The trajectory of the wheel axle is an arc which the center is this point, so the axle path is almost vertical.
m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-BDS-2015,8934/G-Out-Fort-William-Specialized-S-Works-Demo-8,91870/sspomer,2
Here is the actual axle path graph Specialized does not want you to see:
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2426014/2015.PNG
Look at the numbers and compare them to any suspension bicycle in the history of mtb. It is extremely upward and inward, and the back wheel moves in nearly the opposite direction of the front wheel. The axle path of both wheels moving together is essentially like an upside down V. Thus the most unstable wheelbase in the history of two-wheel vehicles. Nobody has even tried to contest that point because it is an accurate statement.
Does anybody think there could be any advantages to riding a DH bike with the most unstable wheelbase in the history of DH that would actually make you go faster? Because unless you can get really creative and find an advantage to it I view you as essentially in agreement with me but still in complete denial because you are being stubborn.
Gwin is a winner but this design is a clear loser.
#specializedevil
And the best part about Vital's G-Out Project.... all bikes do it.
Trek Session
www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-World-Cup-DH-2015,9033/Trek-Session-9-9-G-ed-Out-at-the-Fort-William-World-Cup,92600/bturman,109
Mondraker Summum
www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-BDS-2015,8934/G-Out-Fort-William-Mondraker-Summum,91856/sspomer,2
Santa Cruz V10
www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-World-Cup-DH-2015,9033/Santa-Cruz-V10-Carbon-G-ed-Out-at-the-Fort-William-World-Cup,92568/bturman,109
Devinci Wilson
www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Lourdes-World-Cup,8803/Dean-Lucas-G-Out-Project-Lourdes-World-Cup,88767/sspomer,2
Do I really need to continue?
Take the demo 8 and any number of other more "stable" bikes out there.. Stand them upright only using a hand on the saddle. Now, remove your hand. I predict you will have a similar result with all the bikes.
How much time during a run is a the suspension under full compression anyway?
Side note, how fast was Troy going if he crashed and still only was 1.8 off? He had to be moving. .
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2426014/2015.PNG
The Demo has about 38mm of inward travel, no other bike currently on the market is even close to that now that Morpheus killed their hideously ineffective concentric BB pivot bike:
m.vitalmtb.com/product/feature/Morpheus-Cycles-Shows-Off-New-Carbon-Downhill-Frame,120
@zede. I'm sure the Specialized marketing department is stoked that their expensive carbon DH bike has been revealed to have the most unstable wheelbase in the history of two-wheeled vehicles.
Potential Specialized Demo marketing slogans:
Instability guaranteed at speed
Innovate and think about it later
#Iamunstable
A Demo to die on
OTB but low COG
DH racing has about the roughest terrain of any two-wheeled racing discipline besides maybe motocross racing. And now we have a DH bike with the most unstable wheelbase in the history of two-wheeled racing. Makes perfect sense.
Clearly Yes. Continue down your path of stubborn self-induced delusion until you reach a dead end sign called Reality. The reality is that none of those bikes you posted have even half of the inward movement that the Specialized axle path has.
Did you really think the virtual pivot point is the same thing as the actual main pivot or were you just being disingenuous? Reading your paragraph was pretty mind-bending, I might have to come back later and critique that a little more for humor's sake after today's ride. Good stuff, kabrap.
ka-brap: "GWIN & BROSNAN GO 1 & 3 AT VAL DI SOLE ON BIKES WITH "WORST AXLE PATH IN DH BIKE HISTORY"
You got that part right.
ka-brap: "PROTOUR'S SCREAMS HEARD COMING FROM HIS BASEMENT"
Sorry to disappoint you but this was another of your delusions. No screams, just appreciation for the skills of one of the best racers of all time in dealing with one of the worst suspension designs of all time.
@lumpy873 Actually, when you sit on the new Demo and sag it with both brakes fully locked watch what the tires do. The front tire will skid forward much further than it will on any other DH bike because of the extreme axle path imbalance. Now think about what happens on the trail if that happens; your front tire is going to 'knife', you are going to lose traction more easily compared to other bikes, and be more likely to crash. Admittedly not to often you grab both brakes but even if you were skidding the back tire and feathering the front brake you are much more likely to lose traction on this bike because the wheels are constantly fighting each other due to the extreme axle path imbalance.
Thank you @thenotoriusmic for going against the pinkbike grain and acknowledging the obvious.
Thanks for the offer but I am not really interested in trying out the new Demo.
"The front tire will skid forward much further" if the demo has a forward axle path, the center of the bike will move rear-wards, and the front wheel will move rearwards, not forward, no?
All this talk about "dramatic axle path" is really just a few mm different from other, more traditional designs.
@Protour, try more riding and less armchair engineering. . You can throw out whatever you want as far as numbers and theories, but it's how they work together on the trail that matters.
The bike that won the WC overall by a huge margin and won the last cup world race yesterday. she's a beauty.
here it is in a more chill environment.
p.vitalmtb.com/photos/users/35144/setup_checks/29834/photos/43555/s1600_DSC00904.jpg?1439997388
Specialized has proved that you can run these frames with any suspenion setup, well any setup at all and still be an impressive machine.
They hit the nail on the head with the design and did the same thing with sam hill but it wasn't as successful.
Take the top guy, give him whatever he wants as far as bike and design/support goes.
another thing they did right was hire EC to tighten up the ship.
Good job specialized! they deserve the overall!
Second- you are failing to understand how to map the axle path of any bike with a Horst link, be it a Specialized or Norco or Ellsworth or any other bike that use it. You cannot simply base the axle path on the pivots that are on the chain stay. You need to draw a straight line that intersects the center of the chain stay pivots (Horst & BB pivot) and continue it out past the font of the bike. You then draw a straight line that intersects the seat stay pivot and the upper frame pivot (essentially the pivots of the rocker link) and continue it out past the front of the bike. Where these 2 straight lines meet up is the main pivot location of the suspension platform. Take your our compass, put the pointy end at the intersection of the 2 lines, put the pencil end at the axle and make an arc. This is the axle path that you need to measure.
If you are not doing this (which the "WTF" drawing in your profile indicates) then you are doing it wrong.
@Silvain-F The 'virtual pivot point' you refer to relates to the pedaling forces of a suspension design and is not what dictates the axle path. The main pivot largely controls the axle path, but the horst link on the fsr design actually has the effect of making an even slightly more upward and inward axle path. Nice try though, creative how you took something with no relevance to the topic at hand and pretended it was relevant.
QUOTE END
You are certainly not a mechanical engineer. The virtual pivot point, also called "Instant center of rotation" dictates the movement of the the part it refers, in the case of this frame the part the wheel is attached.
Read this you may learn something :
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_centre_of_rotation
It should look like this, the ICR is the red point, this point will move down during the compression :
www.pinkbike.com/photo/12603389
p.vitalmtb.com/photos/users/2/photos/91870/s600_20150517_fort_william_bds_MG_6438.jpg?1431957659
Sylvain-F: "The virtual pivot point is the intersection of these two lines, it is very forward and higher than the BB. The trajectory of the wheel axle is an arc which the center is this point, so the axle path is almost vertical."
Do you really believe this? Definitely one of the most idiotic claims I've ever heard about this bike. You are pretending that an imaginary pivot point that doesn't actually physically exist actually physically controls the axle path. The main pivot largely controls the upward and inward arc, but the horst link pulls it even more inward to a slight degree. How many times do you need to look at this photo before it FINALLY sinks into your head?
m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-BDS-2015,8934/G-Out-Fort-William-Specialized-S-Works-Demo-8,91870/sspomer,2
The axle path also isn't even close to vertical, it is going upward and inward most of its arc. The fact that you got 5 positive props for that gibberish tells you everything you need to know about Specialized fanboys.
I never said anything about full compression, you made that up desperado. But even if you go through half of the travel front and rear on the Demo, your traction is going to be seriously compromised because of the way the unstable wheelbase pushes the front wheel ahead. Much more so than on any other bicycle built ever.
It's the only axle path I've found on the internet if you have a different one post it. But honestly, like mic says, who needs an axle path graph when you have a revealing picture like this?
m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-BDS-2015,8934/G-Out-Fort-William-Specialized-S-Works-Demo-8,91870/sspomer,2
It's not even close, ka-brap. The new Demo is the winner of The-Most-Unstable-Wheelbase-in-History award. The fact that I keep saying that and nobody can offer up another bike that might be more unstable is also pretty revealing.
The new Demo is an extreme outlier, especially considering some DH bikes have little or no rearward movement in the axle path. I still can't believe you went along with Sylvain-F's complete BS ideas about axle path. Look at the freak'in picture:
m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-BDS-2015,8934/G-Out-Fort-William-Specialized-S-Works-Demo-8,91870/sspomer,2
"All this talk about "dramatic axle path" is really just a few mm different from other, more traditional designs."
Considering the new Demo has almost 40mm of inward movement in its arc, it is much more than a few mm's. We are talking at least 20-30mm more inward movement than most other designs! Check out the pic home slice:
m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-BDS-2015,8934/G-Out-Fort-William-Specialized-S-Works-Demo-8,91870/sspomer,2
It really is the most unstable wheelbase in the history of bicycle design, and nobody here has yet to even attempt to dispute that.
I feel like I'm finally starting to make some headway here and people are finally getting it: Gwin is winning despite this bike and certainly not because of it. This bike faces a troubled future and at some point Specialized designers are going to have to publicly defend it against the accusations of having the most unstable wheelbase in the history of bicycles or move on to another more stable design. Going OTB is a very serious event, that is where head injuries, neck injuries, spinal injuries, etc happen. Going OTB for a lower GOG is not really a good trade-off. Do you really want to own up to this design, Specialized?
m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-BDS-2015,8934/G-Out-Fort-William-Specialized-S-Works-Demo-8,91870/sspomer,2
Realize what year of Demo I am referring to before talk sh*t. I'm glad you like your bicycle.
It does not have as much inward movement as you are talking about, which is out of your ass.
You are a complete troll with nothing better to do than hate on Specialized, which is due to your mom not buying you one for Christmas 15 years ago. Get over it.
And also, when you compress a smaller frame size to full compression and compare it to larger frames that are not at full compression, then of course your images will be like that. When you want to show a compression comparison, take the sizes into consideration. Your variables are all over the place.
Go to sleep, stop crying that you lost and were made a fool in front of the entire internet.
We have all seen the picture. . Reposting the link a dozen times doesn't change a thing.. You are like my teenage daughter .. or maybe like my 7 year old talking about things he doesn't understand. I guess if a Demo rider has both his shock and fork blow out, a demo is not the bike to be on? That's the closest thing I can find to any sort of relevance. . Maybe that will be next for Gwin... His fork and shock will go flat on the first jump and we will ride the "most unstable bike ever" to a victory. .
Because this picture does not lie:
m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-BDS-2015,8934/G-Out-Fort-William-Specialized-S-Works-Demo-8,91870/sspomer,2
"Sylvain-F: "The virtual pivot point is the intersection of these two lines, it is very forward and higher than the BB. The trajectory of the wheel axle is an arc which the center is this point, so the axle path is almost vertical."
Do you really believe this? Definitely one of the most idiotic claims I've ever heard about this bike. You are pretending that an imaginary pivot point that doesn't actually physically exist actually physically controls the axle path. The main pivot largely controls the upward and inward arc, but the horst link pulls it even more inward to a slight degree. How many times do you need to look at this photo before it FINALLY sinks into your head?
"
Of course I believe this. You refute this proven mechanical theory ?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_centre_of_rotation
So it is the proof that you are completely stupid.
PS : I am Engineer at Airbus
you have the worst malfunction brain path in human history...
www.pinkbike.com/photo/12605932
Your axle path graph is a fake, Specialized engineers know their job.
Thanks for the warning, I will avoid that airline like the plague and tell all my friends and family to also avoid it because of the obviously inept 'engineers' who work there.
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/engineering/9088801/Airbus-A380-superjumbo-hit-by-another-fault.html
www.imeche.org/news/engineering/airbus-blames-engine-failure-for-a400m-crash-04061501
www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/25/germanwings-plane-crash-attention-airbus-safety
Nice work there, I supposed you won't be too bothered if Troy Brosnan goes over the bars again at World's on the new Demo and is paralyzed considering the human carnage that lies in your wake.
Rather than attempt to debate somebody who thinks that the 'virtual pivot point' is an actual pivot, I will simply refer you to a conversation with Dave Weagle(DW), the man who coined that term:
www.ridemonkey.com/threads/virtual-pivot-point.19653
Dave Weagle: "Your statement above is correct, if you are talking about a PATH. But if you read, I am not. I am talking about a point, a POINT at which there is a transition of the focus of the averaged radius of the linkage path curvature."
A little more convincing than your Wikipedia BS that doesn't even apply here.
Pay special attention to the 3rd comment from DW where he points out the obvious:
"
Your statement above is correct, if you are talking about a PATHBut if you read, I am not. I am talking about a point, a POINT at which there is a transition of the focus of the averaged radius of the linkage path curvature."
i.imgur.com/im6US99.jpg
Its an overlay of that demo bottoming out pic that you've linked to, with a mondraker summun. They are aligned at the rear axle. Under full compression, its true, the mondraker has a longer wheelbase, as seen by the front wheel (the monnraker is the one with the white fox 40). HOWEVER, if you look at the head tube its also further forward because of the longer top tube. The distance between the two front axles is BARELY more than the distance between the head tubes, and the fox 40 is ever so slightly more slack , meaning the effective wheelbase between the two bikes is essentially the same once you account for the top tube differences.
TL;DR : under full compression the new Demo and the new Mondraker undergo very similar wheelbase changes.
He is exactly describing our point: you think the axle is locked to the swingarm, which is not truly the case. The axle behaves as if the main pivot was out in front of the bike.
Simply because you clearly don't understand basic principles of engineering, you denounce them and point to something else as if it were applicable. Weagle obviously knows what he is talking about, but you clearly are taking things out of context and hoping that it applies out your argument.
**Golf clap**
It's like trying to argue with a dog about mathematics. We can't get upset you. We can only smile, pat you on the head and throw the stick again.
Your nativity here is hilarious ka-brap. All Sylvain-F showed is that he is seriously confused about the difference between the main pivot and the 'virtual' pivot point that relates to where pedaling forces are isolated. So of course you immediately jump on his confused bandwagon and demonstrate that you are just as ignorant as him on the subject.
ka-brap. "This means that because main pivot is well ahead of the BB the arc it produces is a near vertical axle path within the distance the rear axle moves."
How high does one have to get to delude themselves into thinking the virtual pivot is the same thing as the main pivot? That's not even the virtual pivot, though. That's just Sylvain-F drawing two random lines and pretending they mean something when they obviously don't. And you bought it hook, line, and sinker. Feeling stupid yet? If not keep reading. ...
ka-brap: "It's an arc, but because it is part of a very big circle, it is almost near vertical."
Uh huh, the delusion grows deeper. Doubling down on stupidity, but here you get really creative with it:
ka-brap: "This is the ENTIRE basis that FSR is founded on and that you are not understanding."
So the entire basis of fsr is a near-vertical axle path that in reality actually isn't nearly vertical at all? Brilliant, ka-brap. And for all these years I had thought the basis of the fsr design was suspension that stayed active under braking and pedaling. No, ka-brap says the ENTIRE basis of the fsr design is a near vertical axle path that pivots off an imaginary pivot that doesn't actually exist way in front of the BB. Calling you an idiot at this point would be the polite approach.
ka-brap: "It is no different than the old Demo in that regard, only that the location of the pivots moved downward to produce a lower center of gravity. They still act the same way and that way is not at all similar to what you are describing."
They lowered the main pivot that largely controls the axle path a humongous 2", that is precisely what causes the almost 40mm of inward movement that you are in complete delusional denial about.
ka-brap: "And the best part about Vital's G-Out Project.... all bikes do it."
Yes, all bikes bottom out. But only the Demo instantly converts to highly unstable dirt jumper wheelbase when it bottoms out:
m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-BDS-2015,8934/G-Out-Fort-William-Specialized-S-Works-Demo-8,91870/sspomer,2
m.vitalmtb.com/product/feature/First-Look-2015-Mondraker-Summum-Carbon-Pro,286
So the main pivot is next to the BB yet you think the bike behaves as if it were "out in front of the bike?
Also, in that conversation DW was referring to his own bikes, which are actually the virtual pivot design. Hate to burst your highly delusional bubble but the FSR design is not a virtual pivot design. It is a 4 bar linkage design and thus has no virtual pivot. It has a main pivot that largely controls axle path, but which is slightly altered by the horst link. (actually brings it more inward as the top rocker rotates forward). If it didn't have the horst link it would be a single pivot and the main pivot next to the BB would entirely control the axle path.
Ready to give it up yet? I'm surprised you still seem confident given that you are embracing ideas that are so easy to de-bunk. Take another look:
m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-BDS-2015,8934/G-Out-Fort-William-Specialized-S-Works-Demo-8,91870/sspomer,2
Like I said, I'm being very polite here in calling you an idiot.
Yeah, it's blurry so I can't make much use of it.
Care to address the point I made about the linkage behind the BB that pulls the swingarm away from the BB? You had the time to make that blurry graphic but you completely ignore my point which completely debunks your idea, nice.
@ka-brap You cannot extrapolate the axle path of a 4 bar linkage design by pretending it is related to where the pedaling forces are isolated. It clearly is not, and you and Sylvain F are simply doing some very disingenuous posturing in pretending they are related.
Still nobody that has challenged my assertion that the new Demo has the most unstable wheelbase in the history of bicycles, this is getting boring. But World Championships in a week and a half should be interesting! Go Gwin!
It really is like watching a dog bark at a wall. You don't see past your narrow view of anything. It's hilarious.
If you look back, Sylvain F actually responded after my remark about it being a near vertical path, I merely helped explain it after his comment. And yes FSR is all about a near vertical axle path with the end result (your benefit) is its independence from pedaling and braking forces.
People have been challenging your ridiculous "most unstable wheelbase" theory for a hundred comments now you goon. No one here will make such a retarded accusation that another company has a worse one because wait for it.... it's a retarded accusation that only a basement dwelling child wants to harp on. Ultimately our experience proves you wrong, which is so rewarding. It's clearly not the most unstable bike out there (PS- that rider rode away from the full compression G-Out, so it can't be that bad). And while I am not qualified to say it's the best ever, I will note that the bike reigns supreme over the rest of the field. Which is a pretty good achievement, despite your insatiable frustration with it.
I just feel bad that your mom didn't buy you a Specialized when you wanted one so long ago.... This could have all been avoided.
Peace out, @Protour. Carry on barking at your basement wall. It's super fun watching you melt down.
ka-brap: "People have been challenging your ridiculous "most unstable wheelbase" theory for a hundred comments now you goon."
Not really. It's mostly just been meaningless personal insults and Specialized fanboys insisting the axle path doesn't go inward despite all the obvious evidence that it in fact does. The only person who named a bike that they thought had a more unstable wheelbase was home slice hamncheez, but that was easily debunked. You posted some unconvincing pictures of others bikes with clearly more stable wheelbases that only bolstered my assertions but that's about it. Even the old Morpheus and Rotec aren't in the same unstable class as the new Demo in terms of wheelbase shrinkage because they had steeper head angles didn't have a forward rotating rocker arm that pulls it even more forward.
ka-brap: "It's super fun watching you melt down."
When did this happen? Was that the part when I was quoting your sentences and making you look fairly foolish, Mr 'the mysterious vpp controls the axle path"? Lmfao, I think this has actually been a fairly civil conversation until your recent butt hurt but that's understandable. I look forward to more of these conversations on this subject, it's been somewhat fun melting down your ideas. peas out @ka-brap.
Who's the next batter?
@jason-at-specialized ???
You keep on using this word (disingenuous) I do not think it means, what you think it means" -inigo montoya
In order to use that word you must think very highly of yourself. It's a good thing, because you are alone with that one.
There aren't any batters. You are in the wrong field playing the wrong game about 5 years too late.
A winning bike is a winning bike. Shut up now. You can't really prove anything you've said. I wish I could trace your IP so I could disconnect your internet because you are wasting everyones time.
oh look.
ELITE MEN
1st // Aaron Gwin
2nd // Loic Bruni
3rd // Troy Brosnan
2 specialized bikes on the podium this and every race this year. and 2 specialized bikes in the top 5 overall. it must be terrible!! Maybe i'll sell my giant and buy 2 just to piss off f*cktart.
12/10 bikes have that movement you are talking about. That is actually a good thing because it pushes you forward through rough stuff. There's a reason they don't design bikes with outward and upward travel lol (except canfield and a couple others because they can't think of any new designs) Let me know when you get a bike and post some pics of u riding hahahahaha
i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/116/572/937/937572116_079.jpg
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d9/5f/99/d95f99748e3afe53a4d59759697512a7.jpg
Measure using a vertical line through the center of the bb and rear axle at 3 settings...
1) static with no weight.
2) with a rider at about 30% sag to simulate real world set up.
3) full compression.
Maybe even include the front axle in the mix too.. I would guess today's slacked out bikes shorten up more up front than years past.. Then we could see where the greatest amount of change takes place. No crayons involved, just simple measurements.
"That is actually a good thing because it pushes you forward through rough stuf."
Yep, right over the bars. The fact that you think concussions are a good thing explains a lot about your writing style.
I'm curious. . What bikes meet the @Proutor level of armchair engineering excellence and which do you ride?
Getrektm8, if that was you that I didn't pull over for in time, sorry. Dude, you are fast!
Gwin is a god
Protour is a f*cktard
And everybody is a highly skilled engineer
Pffft!
And a big shout out to Jasper Jauch, you deserve it mate!
Any rational human's doubts were dispelled when he lost his freaking chain not 10 yards out of the fricken gate, yet STILL beat the absolute WORLD'S BEST
Have you heard of Minnaar? He's been racing longer than most and is ALWAYS fast. He's the most consistent rider out there, crashes about once every 4 years and has won more wc races than anyone else.
GOAT.
I'm sure Minnaar has seen many fast riders come and go, Hill, Atherton, Gwin, Smith. Noone can match his consistency.
Winning is one thing. Winning under adverse conditions is another, and beating the snot out of the entire field of the world's best DH riders-WITH NO MOTOR- is several levels above.
And lets not forget that he lost the chain right outta the fricken start box, not 1/2 or 3/4 the way down the run.
When another rider(Minaar?) achieves something along this level, we'll talk.
Mens: It was Steve Peat for many years, till Minnaar overtook him this season.
Womens: Atherton currently has a huge lead.
You're trying to apply common sense and reasoning to this argument, and there's no place in this kind of debate for that(I'm being sarcastic of course).
It is however, what the manufacturers, media, and even riders count on to make their living(s).
The media coined the term 'G.O.A.T'( regarding Ricky Carmichael IIRC) in order to give themselves something to 'report' on, and to drive fan interest, again, to give 'em all something to do and money to support themselves.
Who's the greatest quarterback of all time?
It's who the most fans say it is, which gives a HUGE advantage to quarterbacks who are currently playing of course, but what are the parameters? Who makes that decision? Is it most wins? A lot of talking suits won't even consider a 1/4-back unless he's won Superbowls. I personally think it has more to do with how much talent the INDIVIDUAL person has, not that of those that surround him(the way you win in the NFL).
My reasoning for saying AG is the GOAT is the fact that his skill is such that he was able to beat everyone, INCLUDING Minaar, with the HUGE disadvantage of not having the ability to pedal his damn bike.
Am I right or wrong? I'll argue that at the end of the day, that's not even what matters.
What matters is, as I said before, the fact that WE'RE interested in the topic.
Basically in the Actual Grand Total Downhill World Cup of All Time Greg Minnaar has just overtaken Steve Peat for the lead. Aaron Gwin climbed the ranks massively a few years back, went off the boil for a bit and now seems to be getting back up to speed. Come to think of it the rules are pretty harsh. 200 racers enter each race, the winner gets 1 point and the season never ends.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gwin took the lead at some point. It wont be for at least a few years if he does tho. He's definitely the best rider out there at the moment. Every race I look forward to watching him demolish the rest of the field. Actually, I think I'm gonna go watch his Windham run now.
I want to see Hill win a few more races. A season with Hill and Gwin both fit and riding well would be f*cking awesome.
This look like a practice podium to you? That's pretty much the exact jersey worn during the race, if not the exact ones.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/12595487
Same kit style? You mean solid red pants vs. red/white pants. And some diagonal stripe multicolor jersey for Troy vs. white/blue/red for Gwin.
... Probably not
Would Bruni have won the overall if He won this race?? If so, it would have been because of Quali-points and not actual race results.
hahahahahahaa
found this www.redbull.com/en/bike/events/1331684183239/uci-mtb-world-cup-2015-round-9-val-di-sole
1. Let's eat, Troy.
2. Let's eat Troy.
pls.
@Pininator , I dont dislike Gwin :L in fact the only negative feeling I got from today was that I was gutted for Minnaar, even after hearing about Raggot's decision to retire, whilst its sad to hear about a rider retiring its good to hear her plans on how she's going to continue giving to the sport!
Perhaps my initial comment should have focused and dwelled more on Gwins results today then to start looking toward next season for one of my favourite riders, but whats done is done.