Revel Expands US-Made Recyclable Wheel Range With the RW27 - Pond Beaver 2021

 One of the execs at Revel was former ENVE guy, might splain the pricing.

 Or Canadian made We Are One Composites using the same hub for a lot less. And lifetime warranty.

 Well, for starters, Nobl is garbage. So there's that.

 i love this idea that people think US mfg will be strong. with all the entitlement in our workforce, who's going to step up to do the hard work for that wage lol? everyone is just thinking, "well someone else will do it (and not me)" when these same people cant even hold down jobs at fast food joints or not show up stoned hahaha.

source: i currently work in US mfg, from the assembly line floor on up to the some other jobs, and i can tell you first-hand that the number of people who will be humble, bust their ass, and prove themselves from the mfg floor is an EXTREMELY low number. on the bell curve/venn diagram of talent and work ethic, very VERY few people possess both or sit at the upper 10% of either. most mfg operators still have that sense of entitlement: oh i dont want to wake up that early, i dont want to work nights, i dont want to wear a gown and goggles, i dont want to do physical work. the list goes on. so many operators end up quitting just because they arent rewarded within 6 mos of starting a low level job....

 @conoat: Which is exactly how I know your bike skills are garbage.

Set yourself up for that one.

 @cuban-b: "on the bell curve/venn diagram of talent and work ethic, very VERY few people [...] sit at the upper 10% of either."

I fully agree. The 90% that do not have the talent and work ethic should start busting their asses so all of them can be upper 10% too.

 @mi-bike: you should take your own advice, stop browsing PB all day, and get some work done

 @Ryanrobinson1984: bless your heart. you keep trying

 @cuban-b: that’s all I can do, man! Haha

 I think media outlets (or ideally some independent organisation) really need to start picking up companies on their environmental claims. Totally agreed, recycling means it be remade into the original component, or something of simialr use level, the cycle can go on for ever. This kind of 'recycling' has a cycle of one!! And made into something that doesn't even need to be carbon fibre anyway.

In times when the environment really is at risk, we risk falling into a trap whereby we believe we are solving the problem, but are in fact just being conned by clever marketing. This means we achieve exactly zero and the World dies by lies!!

I'm all angry now!!!

 Recycle/up-cycle/down-cycle: We are working to do all three! This material really is that cool and we hope to make a lot more components out of it in the very near future. What we are excited about the most is that there is no reason our rims and manufacturing scraps ever see a landfill.
This explains our process a little more www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwVo45ELiR8

 You aren't Sam Hill though?

 @honda50r: Thou shall follow the king

 theyre not made of carbon theyre made of magical space material thats recyclable.

 I used to wrench for a bunch of Pro DH guys back in the day and they said the same thing. Softer rim that would dent rather than flat (pre inserts obviously) Adding PSI in the tires wasn't an option because of feel, so We may have laced up a bunch of them Sun Singletrack rims in a weekend, but they finished every run, Dents and all. If Sam Hill and Bruni (and many others) chose to run metal..... reasons exist.

 @NivlacEloop: many claim this magic material is stiff and compliant at the same time. Must be made from Schrödingers cat's hair

 @timothyjplatt79: we all know it's not just that. We all do. We forget when we lash out over 300$ per rim. Only carbon rims getting Waki approval are ZIPPs. Extra thick wall and lesser torsional stiffness. Even if carbon rim can flex in vertical plane (if it is very light) it is unlikely to flex torsionally. Alu flexes better in all directions.

If there was ANY water in claim for Carbon rims for Enduro and DH, they would show a comparison. Because it is really not that hard to make a machine that would prove this. one that presses on the rim and gives force reading per distance of discplacement. Raoul Luescher has one and he doesn't even sell products in thousands.

 @justwaki: yup.. The key is that it DOES give.... in just the right way. Like a relationship.

 @Lukefuelex: It was mainly a good jest bud haha. Don’t be too serious.

I do tend to agree with most of his outlooks and riding preferences on most everything though.

 @cougar797: I know lol

 @justwaki: I don't ride anything that's not Waki approved

 @honda50r: I rode Alloy rims and flat pedals before Sam Hill was born.

Sam Hill is not Betsie though

I did once have Sam Hill catch me on the old Whistler Canadian open Dh track, it was like I wasnt moving the speed he caught me at!

 Sam Hill has a mechanic, I mostly run carbon because I'm lazy and they need very little truing compared to Alu, then when you do break them they have a lifetime warranty and you get a fresh build back. ...Unless buy carbon rims without the lifetime warranty.. Which you really shouldn't do because they're fucking expensive!

 @justwaki: Try doing a front stoppie 180 with Zipps, report back what happens.

 @mark4444: torsional across the section...
media.alltricks.com/hd/11464915d08b8ae6e6839.73382791.jpg

Also lifetime warranty? You mean you have a trusted aluminium wheel in case carbon gets wrecked and you wait for replacment? Just kidding. I love all wheels of other people's bikes

 Pretty sure that if Danny can ride carbon hoops on the slabs I'll be ok

 @betsie: yeah his sighting lap cruise speed shames people's lifetime PRs lol

 I do remember a similar comment from a racer (forget who/where) but they elaborated that they raced aluminum for the lower risk of catastrophic failure, but used carbon for training/everyday riding because of the longevity and overall reduced maintenance of not needing to true as often (almost ever) as they far less susceptible to the smaller damage that affects aluminum rims.

Overall it was aluminum on race day, because if it’s mangled at the end it doesn’t matter as long as it’s still holding a tire, but carbon for everything else because you will very likely never need to think about it. Which makes sense to me, just not my wallet yet!

 @timothyjplatt79: do you want to relace a dozen rims a season? lmao

reasons pros do a thing may not apply to the real world. EWS allows you to repair a rim between stages but not replace it. so there are a ton of bodges you can do to keep going on a horribly mangled alloy rim. that's why. And they do mangle the f*ck out of them every single race. Carbon rims would likely come through most races unscathed, but the very small risk of one cracking and forcing a DNF is too high. A 10th place on a egg shaped alloy with duct tape holding the tire on is better than the very small chance of a DNF

 @conoat: Just like most non pro people don’t mangle normal aluminum rims. You don’t need carbon to have wheels last. If you want to cool but you can do AL and be fine.

 @cougar797: well, I do. I can destroy a DT511 in 2 days at a rocky bike park. I am like 180lbs. I have broken so many aluminum rims I quit counting at a dozen or so. carbon carnage? 1 rear hoop that cracked(didnt notice until the end of the day) tatering a knife edge rock on Karpiel at Northstar.

 @cougar797: some people mangle wheels a lot more than others. Whole talk is funny. There are rather dramatic differences between different alloy rims. For instance let’s take the recent breed of stupid wide rims like those above 30mm. They get heavy with such widths which means manufacturer will save material and lower the profile to be able to sell it. Then they will market it as enduro bro. I dare anybody: make a few visits to a workshop that works on high end bikes, you will see dozens of messed up wide alloy rims, like RF Arc 35 or WTB i35. I bought a Hope wheel for 90$ with Fortus 35 rim that had more dents on it than all the rims I had in 20 years. Almost each one of their own would be terminal and rim would leak. I bought it just for the hub. The guy told me: “I rode it just here locally with ARD insert”. We may have many rocks but we don’t have speeds. I have a 35mm internal rim on front of the bike and I have never heard so many boings of tire bottoming on the rim when riding casually with regular pressures. I tend to not waste my rims, yet when I switched to 30mm rear I got dent and flat tire streak (including puncturing DD tire through Procore!) that rivals only the times when I rode 1ply Schwalbe tires. Yes wide rims give better support for filmsy tires, but there is a price to pay. But all the people I know who used EX471 had them for a long time with no issues and minimal maintenance. I happen to know many people who wasted all sorts of carbon rims suprisingly fast

But given this stupid wide rim trend carbon rims seems to come out on top

So I’d say, carbon rims make sense in certain situations, like lighweight very wide rims or XC racing rims. But considering how shitty the most expensive ones are, I would never pay more than for Light Bicycle. They all feel rigid and nasty to me. The only ones I wouldn’t sell right away after someone gave me some, would be Zipp 3zero moto. I want to believe, except I don’t. DT Swiss and Spanks for me please. 30mm front, 25mm rear

 @conoat: install EX471 and come back to me. I wasted Ex511 very quickly after I installed one. Also you have a Karpiel, you’re a whacky weirdo to begin with. There’s the proof

 @conoat: Haha your that guy! I have a friend that just ruins rims like that. I thought he was just a strange abnormality though. No judgements.

 @laceloop: that apparently fails so frequently they needed a way to squeeze some revenue out of the returns.

 @justwaki: Karpiel is a double black at Northstar. lol. you wackadoodle.

 @conoat: it was a sarcasm, by no means I tried to diminish you or your bike, or mr Jan currently living in Polish Aspen called Zakopane which translater means "buried" and it is one of the most bizzare places in this country

 @justwaki: I destroy rims, always have done, partly because I always run race pressures on my Dh bike. (21/23 or 19/21 generally). I have some carbon rims on my trail bike (mega/lyrik) and I have not destroyed them yet (rear is sixthelement rim).
I dont think I would race carbon rims for Dh though as they just feel too stiff for my old bones and I dont go quite as fast (and racing is about going as fast as you can top to bottom).

Maybe one day... who knows, also changing a tyre is a nightmare on that 6element rim, no way would I want to tire my hands that much at a race!

 @betsie: "I rode Alloy rims and flat pedals before Sam Hill was born."

You were 11 when he was born. So yeah, of course your Raleigh Chopper had metal rims and no clip-in pedals

 @bananowy: when I was 11, my dad ran the RAF expedition cycling team (as he did for many many years), cycled my first 100 miles in a day and rode alloy rims with flat pedals (well toe clips too for time trials).
I cycled to school every day and back for lunch, trained most days of the week, rode with Stephen Roche on a training camp. Raced every Tuesday night. Built jumps out of old sticks and hit this massive drop off on a clunker bike (it was about 1ft high). We rode on dirt every Sunday (it was called the club run).

All before Hill was born.

You?

 If you go with a chemical breakdown of material you can produce plastics with similar properties than when made with virgin materials. Only problem is chemical breakdown is more expensive than grinding. This is at least true for fabrics and since membranes for textile are pretty high-tech and precise applications I would think it is the same for any other plastic use. No idea for carbon and this "special carbon" either tho.

 They turn them all into hula-hoops and distribute them in third world countries in exchange for some carbon credits.

 Do some reading on it, they are actively turning busted rims into tyre levers. Doesn't sound like bs to me

 @russthedog: that's still not circular though.

 @sspiff: true, technically it is downcycling or reusing. My main point is I don't think its marketing bs or green wash

 @sspiff: Yep, it's not true recycling, and does smell a little bit of green washing... but still better than landfill. It's not perfect, but better than the most common alternative.

 @russthedog: As @sspiff points out, that is not circular. If you are not terribly aware of what plastics recycling is and is not, I would agree, "Doesn't sound like bs to me". However, I would encourage you if interested to look into what exactly is plastic recycling, what polymers can be reprocessed, what the reprocessing limitations are, what virgin materials are, and how regrind is used.

 @RevelBikes Can you maybe turn the returned rims into 3d printer filament? Sick of paying top dollar for CF reinforced nylon made from virgin material when it doesn't need to be. I'll happily test it out for you.

 Hey! Shh! Don't mention that part.

 It's clear you've never ridden carbon wheels.

 @fullendurbro: I don't need to ride carbon wheels to make a judgment that $2200 is utterly ridiculous for a set of wheels. You can get a really good mountain bike for that with a decent set of standard wheels already on it!
These should be labeled 'Dentist Wheels'.

 @MattP76: It might be ridiculous to you, but keep in mind that some people have made career choices that make a $1,700 price difference a non-issue. There are tangible benefits in carbon, and there are plenty of people with lots of disposable income.

 @fullendurbro: Just to let you know I could easily afford a set of wheels like this. However I am not an fool and won't buy them due to the fact they are a total rip off. I work hard for my money like most people do so I want to see value in what a buy. Carbon is not worth the money it gets charged at in anyway whatsoever. Look at the facts. You can get a great Mountain Bike for the price of these wheels.

 Which are also recyclable

 That is way off. A pair of EX 511 retails for 300.00 here in the States (234 pounds or 257 euro). While I am not saying that 2200 bucks for a set of wheels is cheap, its a lot. But when you consider that the Hydra hubs retail for 700.00 per set ($460 rear/$240 front), DT rims at 300.00, Spokes and nips at about 96.00 (1.50 per @ 32 hole) and you have yourself an 1100.00 wheelset (providing you build them yourself). Granted its half the price of the Revel wheelset, but not Fusion Fiber, and quite a bit heavier. The argument of a $500 wheelset by comparison doesn't add up.

 @scstrail: 511 rims come with nipples and nipple washers

 I don’t live in the US. @scstrail: if I was to buy them in the UK they would cost £160 a pair. Pair of bitex hubs for £130 (145g front/280g rear) and wheel building incl spokes costs me £30 per wheel. So for £350 I have a very good pair of wheels. Buying from the EU means I’m not paying VAT and can import duty free hence the £60 a rim posted.

 @spaceofades: Yes they do, but not spokes (obviously). All prices are based on retail as well.
Apples to Apples comparison.

 @mtb-scotland: Where are you buying EX511 for 160 a pair?? That is less than wholesale here.

 No just marketing ploy. But also means said aerospace company might be DoD related which would explain the high mark up. The more hands a product passes through the more expensive it gets.

 @kroozctrl: so your trying to tell me that wheels made from spaceships wont make me a better rider.

 Yeah, pretty much. Carbon laid in thermoplastic rather than the traditional epoxy.

 Yes, essentially the same material. I believe they use a polymer (like nylon) instead of epoxy resin to bond the carbon strands.

Revel does the recycling (they make them into tire levers) if you send them a damaged rim.

 Rovals lol

 @russthedog:

Literally the only carbon wheels I’ve never broken and they’re 4 years old. E13’s also offer a lifetime warranty, same weight, and are $1200. I guess if you like to throw money away ‍♂️

 @russthedog:

These are XC wheels so that’s what I’m referring to. I run EX511’s or Enduro 305’s on my longer travel bikes. Roval currently makes the lightest carbon wheelset on the market and also offers a lifetime warranty. In XC weight is what matters, so why would someone buy these that are literally 500 grams heavier for basically the same price?

 @russthedog:
Brand loyalty is stupid... I don’t care who makes them, if they’re the best.

 @Frontrange: ah we are in different segments

 so do these, I actually broke a pair of RW30s and I had a replacement in hand in a week

 @mariomtblt:

But they’re either more experience and/or more heavy. So again... why? The selling point is because they make tire levers out of them? Sorry, not interested.