Technical Report Tires:
On a non-electric bike I'd typically run the same 2.5” front / 2.4” rear tire setup as the Bullit, but after a handful of extra-slippery adventures I started wishing for a wider and even meatier rear tire. The motor makes it possible to overpower the 2.4" DHRII's tread pattern, causing the wheel to spin and all forward momentum to be lost. In drier conditions this wouldn't be as much of a concern, but for riders in wetter zones it's something to consider. Code RSC brakes:
I went through a set of metallic pads much quicker than I usually do on a regular bike, likely due to the wet conditions and the added effort required to slow it the Bullit down. Don't forget to check the wear sooner than you typically would, or run the risk of figuring out you don't have any pads left in the middle of a steep descent. DT Swiss 350 hubs:
I've said lots of good things about DT Swiss' hubs in the past, and their Star Ratchet design is usually very reliable...usually. In this case, some of the teeth became slightly rounded and started slipping past each other, which meant it was impossible to put any pressure on the pedals. In other words, ride over. One I scooted my way home I swapped out the teeth and didn't run into any further issues. This incident did make me thing that there might be room for a beefier start ratchet, possible with larger, and fewer teeth. EP8 issues
: I was halfway through a ride when the motor cut out and the display flashed an E01020 error message. I checked all the connections, and tried all the tricks I could think of without any success. I figured that I owed some penance for the motorized assistance I'd been enjoying, so I pedaled another lap with the motor off before contacting Shimano. It turns out that error message required a whole new drive unit, which gave me the chance to see how hard it is to replace a motor. Turns out it's not very difficult, but I can imagine that someone who'd dropped upwards of $11k on a new bike wouldn't be very happy at all when faced with a dead motor. I'll be sending the motor back to Shimano to figure out what caused the issue, and I'll update this when I learn more.
While we're talking about the motor, I do wish was a little quieter, especially after riding a near-silent Specialized/Brose motor, but I really only noticed its high pitched 'whir' on smoother climbs. It also rattles on rougher descents when there are repeated quick hits, with a sound that's similar to riding a bike without a clutch derailleur. Mud collection:
The VPP suspension layout and the EP8 motor itself creates lots of little nooks and crannies for mud and grit to get into – be prepared to spend a little extra time keeping everything clean, and it's worth taking the plastic covers around the motor off every once in a while to remove the debris that'll inevitably work its way inside. Value
If you're looking for a screaming deal on an eMTB this isn't the bike for you. Even the base model costs $7,499, for a build kit that has a RockShox Zeb fork, SRAM NX Eagle drivetrain, and Guide RE brakes. It is good to see that the tire spec remains consistent on all models, since that's not a place to cut costs on a bike like this. Still, no matter how you look at it the Bullit is on the higher end of the price scale.
I still can’t unsee Pivot’s ebike.
you. need. help.
I'm 100% for people using e-bikes if they have a genuine issue with riding a traditional bike but it's sad to see so many young people starting out on these now.
Love my none e bike too !
He appears to be stoked about his e-bike experience and wants other to join him. Is that so bad?
Specifically YT owners...
@danzzz88 You should try one and then if you still feel the same , slate them but you can’t strap 12kg to your bike and say ebikes are shit !
I’m late 40’s and give you a run for your money on any bike pal
I was a bit harsh here but I'm passionate about e bikes and tired of the hate.
BTW way to COMPLETELY change the title AND content of your original post at the link I provided...
Original title was something like: "YT is a Nazi/MAGA White supremacist company..."
And the original post linked to all types of conspiracy BS, as well as calling an Owl an Eagle and associating the Austrian flag with Nazis...
Why Did You Change It?
I’m sure the performance is good but if I wanted a powered bike it’s not where I’d spend my hard earned.
of the top 3 reasons to buy carbon, weight doesn't make the list.
Once you throw a 7 pound motor/controller and 10 pound battery on the frame none of that really matters anymore, so carbon doesn't really matter much anymore.
Now it's an ebike and the only thing the two have in common is the weight. What the f*ck.
His view is part of a diverse perspective on the this subject and any other subject. I appreciate the different perspective and utilize it in formulating my thoughts on the subject. To cancel his or anyone else's opinion is a disservice to everyone... including yourself.
5 years from now, when you are out riding your new e-bike... what will you think about canceling that guy that was touting them as the next great thing?
I guess I can count myself as a middle age guy with enough money to buy this bike several times over. Do you think that means I can't ride!? It probably means I have a small dick too, yeah? lmao. What you are doing here is slagging off people that have the means that you do not. It's serious small dick energy. don't do that.
btw, what wheelset you got? I gotta hear this...
here is the thing: had you simply said 1400g wheelset, I wouldn't have said a word. but you got greedy with your lie. you wanted to be just *that* much cooler. I would go so far as to say you probably don't have a 165 or a 11.6 or.....a life.
is the zzz in your name denoting your mental state right now?
Hmm, sounds like some suggested solutions that may or may not have already been sorted out in the past... might I also recommend a small radiator to help keep the motor cool?
*maintenance intervals for all the wear items aren't any shorter, I'm just hitting them sooner because of three bike lifetimes in the past year!
bikes are dialed!!!
Again, glad you're stoked on your ride! I'd knock on wood if I were you ; )
Even a place like Downieville would be a massive bummer (esp on the non-classic routes), or say you're in a valley and need to climb 1000m to cross a pass to town to end the day, it would f'ing suck to have to pedal a 50lb bike with extra drag up/out of that. I'm stoked on the future of electric bikes, but they have to be even more reliable than traditional bikes to justify the cost/weight/maintenance. If they're only good for lunch laps, they aren't practical for the average biker and they aren't going to help those who need them due to age/physical limitations access a broad range of trails with peace of mind.
E7000/8000 and EP8 all have this issue. Best way to avoid is turn on the power unit without a rider on the bike at all/ bike stationary, not moving. Once it's on, leave it on all day. You're only depleting the battery when pedaling.
Saying an ebike is unreliable & can't be trusted is more false of a statement than saying your fuel injected vehicle can't be trusted. IF the Ebike system fails, you simply ride home a heavy bike. Your fuel injection fails, you're walking. I'd rather have pedals and wheels than walk.
An ebike ridden solely in ECO mode, with a low level of support can achieve upwards of 100km on a charge. If you're putting in more than 100 km/day with any climbing involved an Ebike isn't for you.
Regardless of age or ability, the ebike is flexible in the way you can hammer out multiple laps - or have an all day 100km epic. The beauty is in the way this can be changed by the press of a button all in one ride. Many ebikes also have quick change battery options, where a spare can be thrown in a pack, some even attach to the bike as range extenders.
Yes there is a larger margin of error with electrical components, but someone who is careful with equipment - issues will be far and few. Shimano wouldn't put it out there if it sucked that bad.
I agree there is a learning curve for sure. But at this point, the technology is at an enjoyable point where the Shimano Steps system is mostly reliable, completely maintenance free other than charging, and the benefit is much MUCH more riding.
So far its been nothing but positive, and I chose to spend much much less than $11,500 for a bike. You spec to your riding style. At $7500 CAD I figure I spent appx $1500 more than I would have on a normal bike in the same trim level - making the Steps system appx $1500. Is it worth $1500 to me? The fact I can double my typical KM count in a day says yes.
$7500 CAD is reasonable in the realm of bike prices, and early/early-ish adopters like you are going to help push the tech to be better, lighter, faster, stronger. My riding friends (none of us have e-bikes yet) always see e-bikes out there on the climbs and we all kind of look at each other like, "It's only a matter of time before we're on that train!" Haha anyway, covid luckily cancelled work for me today, so I'm hitting the trails. Cheers dude, thx for the perspectives!
I however work alot, which involves walking 5-10km a day in steel/safety toed boots. When I'm off work, I want all the good stuff, none of the suffer. Im still down for a good workout - but not killing myself. The wife works a desk job, her fitness level isnt the same as mine. I can ride in Eco, she can ride in Trail mode with that bit more of assistance - and we're now the same speed. I used to wait at the top of the hill while she hated every second of the climb, to the point where she stopped riding with me. Now we ride together again, and she is invigorated to ride. Instead of doing a 20km rounder with X amount of climbing, we're doing a 40km with XX amount of climbing. Key word (we're).
It has been all good so far. I researched the hell out of them, with most of the changes being for added power and torque. Personally encountering one user with just over !!15,000km!! on his Shimano powered ebike, he says the battery isn't providing as many km as it used to.
That's a lot of riding man! And isn't that what we're all in it for, the riding? Ebike rider etiquette is something that needs to improve, but I'm hoping that will also come in time.
Enjoy the day!
My 180mm travel / 52lb monster is not only a great descender, it's the best XC bike I've ever owned. I took it on a 35 mile / 8500ft ride last summer and pedaled 5 miles or so with the motor off, it was definitely tough. But actually remained fun the whole (truncated) time.
ebikes are great. and only getting better.
and the shimano "you pushed start with your foot on the pedal" error is 013, is it not? I dunno, I'm still on 8000 motor
I don't hate the design, I don't hate eBikes...but it feels to me that putting the Bullit name on it is kind of like what Ford did with the Mustang Mach E. The Bullit was an icon, I owned one. Loved that bike.
I find it hilarious that it isn't rated for a DC...being a 50+ lb freeride bike...
I can't get over the ugly aesthetic of ebikes; Specialized definitely has won the looks game, and maybe the overall package game (if you're gonna compare watts to watts, then there are more powerful batteries/motors, but you still have Class 1/3 limitations to deal with), what with their phone apps controlling ride performance/length/etc. For now, most companies grab an off-the-shelf, then bolt a battery onto the water bottle mounts and zip-tie a motor to the BB and call it a day.
So a sub 40lb mullet Ebike with a 160 or 170 29er fork
Shimano wrote the book on seals.
When you return the motor please ask them about the sealing as well !
Pics of this intrusion and also the VPP mud build up are appreciated.
Just like how their regular bikes are all a pound and a half too heavy and at least half a generation behind on geometry.
Funny to me that the Santa Cruz ebikes with massive profit margins have way fewer supply chain issues than the regular bikes.
I missed out on 2 ski seasons due to Covid, so saved and bought a Santa Cruz Bullit in January 2021 instead. I got £1000 off the 'S' Model.
Its absolutely game-changing. I have had it at some classic Scottish Enduro spots so far, and I am doing 6500 ft climbing per day, and like 5x as many descents as I would on my normal bike.
All you grumpy guys who harp on about Ebikes, I take it you skin up the piste at ski resorts, and always avoid the chairlifts yeah?
The comment about brake pads is very true, I blow through pads, annoying af.
Why not put a DH casing on the front lol, why a DD on an ebike.....
A beefy tire is a requirement if you want to push heavy ass e bikes to their limits in tech / etc...I mean, goes for any bike really, but the extra weight makes it less of an option more of a necessity. It folds and gets deflected like a little bitch without a heavy casing.
beefier tires help a lot. Perfect example is the Levo. One of the biggest upgrades you can make is to ditch the tires that come on there and get some real ones.
I actually run the exact same tire set up... well not necessarily size but tire type... on my hardtail and my emtb.
Assegai up front 3C MaxxGrip. Which I guess is a DH casing. Honestly didn't realize it but just looked at the site and there it is... DH casing. LOL!
DHR2 in the rear. 3C MaxxTerra I believe.
Where did you do most of your riding for the review?
I'm also in Washington, and the only place I know of off the top of my head where they are legal (on mountain bike trails) around here is Daringtons North mountain area (the shuttle stuff), but admittedly I haven't checked much lately. Maybe there are new places?
I am still not sure how I feel about ebikes personally, but as long as they're not legal anywhere around me, I haven't really felt like they've even been worth thinking about so far (even in my future).
But in relation to gravity and things rolling...
Example... how much energy is required to get a BMX bike rolling vs. say... a train.
Force equals mass times acceleration or some crap. Think you're thinking of velocity.
Basically the force required to get something moving is mass times acceleration. Figure if A is consistent between objects.... say 25 pound bike and a 50 pound bike to say 25 kph you get...
F=25x25 or F=25x50.
Force required to get your standard mtb rolling to that speed is 625. Force required to get the emtb rolling to the same speed is 1250.
Could be wrong though. I'm old as f*ck and the extent of my math use right now is helping one of my kids with long division and the other with counting apples in a box.
Glad you have seen the light. Embrace progress
"As mountain bikers, we need to stick together and take a stand to protect the integrity of the sport against these electric intruders."
Gold Jerry. Gold!
We all ride E bikes as well, and they are a great leveller, particularly for a 20 km 1.25hour non stop blast.
The negative side for me, is on very steep slippery tech trails, they are difficult to slow down and manoeuvre as easily as my much lighter agile trail bike.
Good job on riding at 65. I follow Ned Overend (also 65) on Strava for inspiration, although he falls more into the world class athlete category.
I really wish we could take a hard look at star ratchets, and stop talking about them being ultra-reliable as a matter of fact.
a mechanism that is so unable to tolerate even mild changes in lubricant, is by definition, not a mechanism well suited to reliable operation in the conditions a bike hub sees. that oil will not stay contaminant free.
Mine is bosch powered. Great motor and battery set up. Love that it has 4 speeds instead of 3. I pretty much never use turbo unless I see a stupid climb that should be impossible and I'm like.... screw it lets give it a go.
But that motor is loud as well and the cradle creaks A LOT... at times. The monitor is nice to look at and functions well but it's in a crazy spot and I've already snapped it off a couple times. It's not bolted in place hopping and praying it never happens again... and their control set up functions well but spins around like crazy and is clunky to use. Walk function is pretty much useless, etc.
I'd basically take the big S's system but Bosch's 4 speeds. That'd be the best combo right now.
Shimano's new set up is solid. But it's 3rd on my list at the moment.
The big S is like Burton... yeah we're gonna put this big line down the middle of your board. Why? Because it works better.. and we can. Rest of you can piss off. That's Specialized right now with EMTB tech. Everyone else is playing catch up.
Friend shipped his road bike and upon arrival one of the Di2 shifter wires has pulled out of the socket.
Which required a Shimano wiring plug tool. Big hassle no ride and a trip to the bike shop.
Don't Die Wondering. All cycling is cheating gravity rolling resistance and air resistance and purists run the trails barefoot or swim the English channel unassisted. Allow your human brain to Evolve.
Even on the kenevo I’d go 38 over the 40.
Orbea seemed to have reasonable weight for their model (35lbs?).
a little more, but more stealthy for sure.
What happened to pedaling yourself uphill??
some people get older and/or picked up injuries.........most others by the vast majority are just lazy who like the lifestyle of riding mtb's but dont want to put in the graft and earn there turns and get the rewards that hard effort pays off so they get an e-bike. I find it depressing to see my local trails flooded with what appears to be many young perfectly able bodied people whirring around on e-bikes.
I have the upmost respect for riders who put in the graft and i would rather see someone slowly going round a trail as there new and learning or perhaps instead because of the passage of time has slowed a rider down (after all it happens to us all) but i do not consider e-bike riding to be the same and i do consider it a lazy option (if you are perfectly able bodied obviously).
I love all the "i work 40 hours a week, have 2 kids, 2 hamsters and a goldfish and therefore don't have the time to ride for 20 miles at a time so instead spend the same time on an ebike" excuses......its all about life choices. I would like to have the physique of a regular gym going individual but i like food too much so i cycle my 90kg frame around to the best of my ability and i am still despite all this decently fast because of the hard work i have put in to cycling all these years (just don't expect me to jog far as im crap at that).
so many people aspire for the image of being a mountain biker but cant be arsed to put the effort in so now companies have found the golden ticket of selling the image with minimal effort required as the entry now only being a matter of money.........e-bikes are here to stay as unfortunately theirs always more lazy people looking to cheat there way at things.
for all you reading this with anger please read my first part where i outline a big caveat. If you fit that type of rider my comments are not meant to annoy you at all.
As for the other types............well i just wish they didn't bother quite honestly.
I have a levo sl and it is fantastic, the perfect crossover between unpowered bikes and full power ebikes, You can ride with either.
That said, the decision of which ebike to buy was really tough, and if I was in the market again (for an ebike) I would seriously be considering a longer travel full power bike like this. Not at this price though...
Most of my riding mates have moved over to full power ebikes and have consistently said that with all that power on tap, you may as well have more travel for smashing burlier tracks and downhill runs.
The light weight half power concept of the levo sl makes huge sense if you are mainly riding trail centres, particularly with both powered and unpowered friends. It feels like a ‘normal’ bike and is easy to ride without the motor if necessary. But being able to ride any downhill trail and have a self contained uplift in one beefy bike with burlier forks and shock is a good concept.
The canyon Torque On is killer value at £5k with a spare battery thrown in and the Vitus e-Sommet is also a fantastic spec for the money, both have the same long travel full power layout as the bullit shown above but at a more reasonable price point
The increased bike weight makes it more difficult to maneuver and arguably less fun to ride.
And beyond that, emtbs's due to the weight tend to want to stay on the ground. Planted.
The review is correct, it's easy to pickup speed on this bike, and the "e" is not related to this.
I've heard of a few people riding like this. I'm on a Bosch set up and it's not that easy to flip on and off without looking away from the trail so I pretty much never turn it off. It's passive on descents anyways. And it's nice to have the motor there if you want to power out of a tight corner or speed up to clear a log you didn't know was there... etc.
I do have one question though... on long rolling descents where you need to pedal to maintain momentum and you're speed is greater than the limiter... if you turn it completely off does it still feel like you're pedaling through a brick wall? That's the only time I could see turning it off. There's a few trails I've ridden like this and I end up falling way off the back because I'm pushing through the bike.
I'm just not a big fan of turning things on and off more than necessary. It's like the new motors that kill have the cylinders at the light. I hate that crap. It rumbles up and delays when you want to leave the light and it ends up doing damage to the passive valves over time.
But that's me.... but if it stops the brick wall on the descents I just mentioned I may start turning it off for those sections. Thanks for the heads up in advance.
I think there will be a place for mullet bikes for quite a while.