Review: 2021 Santa Cruz Bullit - The Electrified Freeride Machine

Mar 2, 2021
by Mike Kazimer  
When I first heard rumors that Santa Cruz had a new Bullit on the way my attention was immediately piqued. I've witnessed some ridiculous riding feats performed aboard the original aluminum single pivot version, everything from telephone poll high skinnies ridden in the rain by a rider whose drivetrain was skipping at the most inopportune moments to big hucks to flat in the Utah desert. I've never owned one myself, but I'll always have a soft spot for that bike, which is why I decided to get the motorized version in for some proper winter testing.

The new Bullit doesn't share much in common with its predecessor, other than the name. It's not aluminum, it's not a single pivot, and instead of 26” wheels it has a mixed wheel, 29 / 27.5” configuration with 170mm of travel.
Bullit Details

• Wheel size: 29" front, 27.5" rear
• Carbon frame
• Travel: 170mm
• 64-degree head angle
• 449mm chainstays
• Shimano EP8 motor
• Weight: 49.2 lb / 22.3 kg (size L)
• Price: $11,499 USD
santacruzbicycles.com


It's also not cheap – the base model goes for $7,499 USD, and the version reviewed here is a whopping $11,499 USD. I'm typically not a fan of the whole “I could buy a [insert your favorite random unrelated item here] for that much money” trope, but I did think it was ironic that putting this on my bike rack more than tripled the worth of my van.

That tall price tag gets you a Fox 38 Factory fork, SRAM Code RSC brakes with properly big rotors, an X01 Eagle 12-speed drivetrain, and carbon Reserve wheels mounted up with a Maxxis Assegai / DHR II tire combo, both with a Double Down casing. Don't forget about the motor, which in this case is Shimano's latest EP8 system, with a 630 Wh battery.


bigquotesThe Bullit will get up to speed eye-wateringly fast, and it'll maintain that pace as long as you can keep off the brakes. Mike Kazimer




Santa Cruz Bullit review


Frame Features & Motor Details


The Bullit has the now-familiar Santa Cruz silhouette, albeit with an oversized downtube to house the battery. The frame is constructed from Santa Cruz's CC-level carbon, and for now there aren't any lower priced C-level or aluminum framed models.

Santa Cruz uses their Di2 carbon handlebars to give the Bullit a clean cockpit – the E-tube wire from the mode selector to the display runs inside the handlebar. The wire from the display to the motor has its own port in the head tube, although I wish the wire itself had a thicker casing, just in case it got snagged on a branch or other grabby trailside foliage. The derailleur and brake housing are also internally routed, and are zip tied to the side of the down tube to keep things quiet.

Other details worth a quick mention include a ribbed chainstay protector, a tiny fender to keep a tiny amount of mud off the shock, and room for a water bottle inside the front triangle. Itching to run a dual crown fork on your e-bike? Well, it's not going to be this one – the frame is not dual crown compatible.


Santa Cruz Bullit review
The Bullit is equipped with Shimano's new EP8 motor.
Santa Cruz Bullit review
The 630 Wh battery is stored in the downtube, and easily removed with one hex key.


The battery for the Shimano EP8 motor can easily be removed from the downtube for charging or transport with a partial turn of a 4mm hex key, but I'd imagine most riders will take advantage of the charging port located on the non-drive side of the frame. That's just below the power button, which sits underneath the shock.

Ralf Hauser put together an extensive review of the EP8 motor earlier this year, which digs deeper into the nitty gritty details of the new motor – be sure to check that out if you want the full scoop on the heart of the Bullit.

In short, there are three modes – Eco, Trail, and Boost, along with a Walk mode that can be used when you're off the bike and trying to push a 50 pound beast up a steep hill. The level of support and the max torque that's delivered in each mode can be adjusted to some extent via Shimano's E-Tube Project app, so if you wanted Eco mode to deliver a little more 'oomph', or Boost mode to be a little tamer, that's easily accomplished.



Santa Cruz Bullit review
The mode selector is easy to reach, and the wire is run internally through the carbon bar.
Santa Cruz Bullit review
There's a tiny mud flap, but it'll only do so much in really mucky conditions.


2021 Santa Cruz Bullit


Geometry & Sizing

The Bullit's reach numbers and 64-degree head tube angle are identical to those found on the Nomad, its closest non-motorized sibling. The chainstay length is 449mm on all sizes – in this case there aren't any flip chips or size-specific chainstays. There are four sizes in total, from M to XXL, with reach numbers ranging from 450mm to 515mm. There's no Bullit for riders looking for a size small, but Santa Cruz does make the 150mm Heckler in a small with a 416mm reach.


Santa Cruz Bullit review

Suspension Design

The Bullit uses two short(ish) counter-rotating links for its 170mm of travel, and there's enough progression to the leverage curve that a coil or an air shock are both viable options. Like the rest of Santa Cruz's bikes, the pivot bearings are covered by a lifetime warranty.



Specifications
Price $11499
Travel 170mm
Rear Shock RockShox Super Deluxe Ultimate
Fork FOX 38 Float Factory E-Tune, 170mm, 29"
Headset Cane Creek 40 IS Integrated
Cassette SRAM XG1295 Eagle, 12spd, 10-52t
Crankarms Shimano EM900 HollowTech Crank Arms, 165mm
Rear Derailleur SRAM X01 Eagle, 12spd
Chain SRAM XG1295
Shifter Pods SRAM X01 Eagle Single Click, 12spd
Handlebar Santa Cruz Bicycles Carbon Di2 Riser
Stem Burgtec Enduro MK2
Grips Santa Cruz House Grip
Brakes SRAM Code RSC
Hubs DT Swiss 350
Spokes Sapim D-light
Rim Santa Cruz Reserve 30 29 Carbon (f), Reserve Carbon DH 27.5 (r)
Tires 29 x 2.5" Maxxis Assegai MaxxGrip DoubleDown, 27.5 x 2.4" DHRII MaxxTerra DoubleDown
Seat WTB Silverado Team
Seatpost Fox Transfer Factory



Santa Cruz Bullit review









Test Bike Setup

Santa Cruz has a very detailed suspension setup chart on their website that's a good place to begin. I inflated the Super Deluxe shock to 175 psi, which put me at 30% sag, and ran the low speed compression 10 clicks from closed.

My final settings for the 170mm Fox 38 fork were around 10 pounds more than the suggested starting point, at 100 psi with three tokens installed for my 160 pound weight. The initial settings were too soft, and had me using more (or all) of the travel much too often. Bumping up the air pressure settled things down, and kept the ride height where I wanted it in steeper terrain.

I mentioned the ability to fine tune each of the motor's assist settings using Shimano's app, but I was happy with the stock configuration and didn't need to deviate from how the bike arrived.

Testing took place in the depths of winter, which meant there were deep puddles, lots of mud, and a handful of snowy rides in the mix.




Me.
Mike Kazimer
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
Age: 38
Height: 5'11" / 180cm
Inseam: 33" / 84cm
Weight: 160 lbs / 72.6 kg
Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Instagram: @mikekazimer


Santa Cruz Bullit review

Climbing


All the usual talk about pedaling efficiency becomes much less relevant when you have a motor helping you up the hill. Instead, the focus shifts to traction, and the Bullit delivers that in spades. The rear wheel easily moves up and over obstacles, making rough, rooty climbs much more achievable. With a little practice it became second nature to shift my body back a little to unweight the front wheel, and then doing sort of a power wheelie pivot to get around tight switchbacks.

The overall climbing position on the size large was very comfortable for my 5'11” height, and longer paved road approaches were dispatched without any discomfort. Eco mode provides enough assistance to hide the weight of the bike on the pedal to the trailhead, while also ensuring there's plenty of juice left in the battery for the best parts of the ride.

Initially, I envisioned using the Bullit mainly for knocking off multiple laps on steep trails that have grueling logging road grinds to access them. And while the Bullit was a great tool for those types of rides, I found myself enjoying the more exploratory missions, ones that included a healthy mix of awkward climbs, the kind with moves that required more than one attempt to conquer.

There's no getting around the fact that the Bullit is a big bike – the term nimble never really ever crossed my mind - but it's also much more manageable, and downright enjoyable, on techy climbs. It does take some effort to muscle it around, but that turned into part of the fun, trying to get it to clamber up and over slimy rock steps or around a tight corner with an off-camber root in exactly the wrong spot. The motor does make climbing much faster and easier, but it also provided incentive for me to try riding up things I'd never even consider on a regular bike.


Santa Cruz Bullit review

Descending

The original Bullit wishes it could corner and descend like the new one does. The overall heft of the bike, and the way much of that weight is around the bottom bracket area makes it possible to push into the 170mm of travel and absolutely rail through turns in a way that's typically only possible on a downhill bike. The geometry felt well balanced - the 475mm reach combined with the 449 chainstys made it easy to stay centered and in a good descending position.

The Bullit will get up to speed eye-wateringly fast, and it'll maintain that pace as long as you can keep off the brakes. For some reason, the image of a UPS truck absolutely rallying around a race track kept popping into my mind when I was riding the Bullit. It's more of a plow than a razor sharp precision instrument, a bike that prefers blast right through whatever is in the way. Despite the mis-matched brand names, the Fox 38 and RockShox Super Deluxe suspension combo played well together in these type of scenarios once I had them dialed in.

When it comes to hitting jumps, be warned that the Bullit has a penchant for going deep on larger stepdowns or jumps with decent sized lips - I landed well past where I'd intended more than once when my momentum carried further than expected. Luckily, the suspension has a very smooth end stroke ramp up, and I never felt any harsh bottom outs. The overall weight is more noticeable when bunnyhopping or trying to pop over mid-trail obstacles, and can deliver quite the upper body workout by the end of a ride.


Santa Cruz Bullit review
Bullit the blue sky.

Technical Report

Tires: On a non-electric bike I'd typically run the same 2.5” front / 2.4” rear tire setup as the Bullit, but after a handful of extra-slippery adventures I started wishing for a wider and even meatier rear tire. The motor makes it possible to overpower the 2.4" DHRII's tread pattern, causing the wheel to spin and all forward momentum to be lost. In drier conditions this wouldn't be as much of a concern, but for riders in wetter zones it's something to consider.

Code RSC brakes: I went through a set of metallic pads much quicker than I usually do on a regular bike, likely due to the wet conditions and the added effort required to slow it the Bullit down. Don't forget to check the wear sooner than you typically would, or run the risk of figuring out you don't have any pads left in the middle of a steep descent.

DT Swiss 350 hubs: I've said lots of good things about DT Swiss' hubs in the past, and their Star Ratchet design is usually very reliable...usually. In this case, some of the teeth became slightly rounded and started slipping past each other, which meant it was impossible to put any pressure on the pedals. In other words, ride over. One I scooted my way home I swapped out the teeth and didn't run into any further issues. This incident did make me thing that there might be room for a beefier start ratchet, possible with larger, and fewer teeth.


Santa Cruz Bullit review
DoubleDown casing tires are a good pick.
Not ideal.


EP8 issues: I was halfway through a ride when the motor cut out and the display flashed an E01020 error message. I checked all the connections, and tried all the tricks I could think of without any success. I figured that I owed some penance for the motorized assistance I'd been enjoying, so I pedaled another lap with the motor off before contacting Shimano. It turns out that error message required a whole new drive unit, which gave me the chance to see how hard it is to replace a motor. Turns out it's not very difficult, but I can imagine that someone who'd dropped upwards of $11k on a new bike wouldn't be very happy at all when faced with a dead motor. I'll be sending the motor back to Shimano to figure out what caused the issue, and I'll update this when I learn more.

While we're talking about the motor, I do wish was a little quieter, especially after riding a near-silent Specialized/Brose motor, but I really only noticed its high pitched 'whir' on smoother climbs. It also rattles on rougher descents when there are repeated quick hits, with a sound that's similar to riding a bike without a clutch derailleur.

Mud collection: The VPP suspension layout and the EP8 motor itself creates lots of little nooks and crannies for mud and grit to get into – be prepared to spend a little extra time keeping everything clean, and it's worth taking the plastic covers around the motor off every once in a while to remove the debris that'll inevitably work its way inside.


Santa Cruz Bullit review


Value

If you're looking for a screaming deal on an eMTB this isn't the bike for you. Even the base model costs $7,499, for a build kit that has a RockShox Zeb fork, SRAM NX Eagle drivetrain, and Guide RE brakes. It is good to see that the tire spec remains consistent on all models, since that's not a place to cut costs on a bike like this. Still, no matter how you look at it the Bullit is on the higher end of the price scale.


Pros

+ Impressive cornering and downhill capabilities
+ Good battery life allows for extended adventures

Cons

- Suspension layout and motor provide lots of places for mud and grit to get into
- EP8 motor rattles in rough terrain


Pinkbike's Take

bigquotesThe new Bullit has the geometry and suspension to take on DH bike-worthy trails, but it's not a one trick pony – it can deliver a good time on the climbs and traversing sections too, as long as they're technical enough to be interesting. That sky high price tag of this model is tough to overlook, although when you consider the wear and tear that shuttling incurs on a vehicle, and the price of a DH bike that can't be pedaled uphill, it might be ever-so-slightly easier to try and justify... Mike Kazimer









314 Comments

  • 328 64
 Sad day when one of the most iconic free ride bikes of its time now sports an electric motor and 10k canadian base model price tag.
  • 145 15
 And a downtube that looks like it belongs on a Boeing. The Bullet in my heart is an aluminum single pivot with a Monster T. Single tear.
  • 78 423
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 2, 2021 at 8:26) (Below Threshold)
 ⬆️⬆️Triggered, snowflake, slow bike riders. Only real thing to complain about here is the price and the engine rattle. Turn your e bike filter on if you can't deal with the reality that e bikes are blowing up(no pun intended), and slow bikes are slowly dying(pun intended).
  • 13 1
 I have my old Bullit stashed upstairs - what a beast.. As I recollect the ad campaign said something like 'be like Steve and ride your bike up the hill'. Steve would not be impressed. I still want one tho'.
  • 17 20
 I hate e-bikes for my own reasons but for Santa Cruz to say NO to slaying the rest of the pack with a killer bike is not going to happen. SC is the iconic brand I bought into 20 years ago and look forward to the day I need to use an Eeeeeeeh bike cause of age.
  • 171 45
 @DoubleCrownAddict: you can almost feel that q-anon/trump supporting anger and confusion.
  • 34 6
 @Glenngineer: “And a downtube that looks like it belongs on a Boeing.”

I still can’t unsee Pivot’s ebike.
  • 12 5
 my 100% real reaction to reading the article headline was WHOOOOOOOAAAAA! [keeps reading] Nooooooooo Frown
  • 115 5
 @DoubleCrownAddict: There are no slow bikes, just slow riders, and if you're a slow rider, the e-bike won't make you fast.
  • 4 4
 @kcy4130: top comment
  • 59 8
 @SlodownU: Dude this guy @DoubleCrownAdddict has a serious hate on for anyone who rides a regular bike. He's living some dystopian E-bike life that we can't understand. The amount of downvotes this guy get 's on the regular is surely some kind of record/travesty.
  • 51 13
 @DoubleCrownAddict: lol, yeah everybody turn on your content filters so that the triggered snowflake e-bikers can have their safe-space.
  • 14 3
 I don’t know... I view it as this iconic free ride bike now comes with a built-in lift. I do not like ebikes, but if I ever do it’ll be built into something I’d usually want to toss on a chairlift.
  • 3 1
 @Glenngineer: SC missed an opportunity for a larger logo with its weight dropped lower on downtube. It'd be the most surprising 'design feature' here
  • 14 180
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 2, 2021 at 9:17) (Below Threshold)
 @SlodownU: If that were true I wouldn't be passing so many people on slow bikes, sometimes twice on their same climb if I'm in shuttle mode. Yet they aren't passing me on the downhills. Regular bikes are so slow on the climbs they deserve to be called slow bikes, imho.
  • 32 0
 an electromagnetic driven Bullit should be called the Railgun
  • 69 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: ironically your post is the only thing sounding remotely triggered
  • 101 13
 @DoubleCrownAddict: You're incredibly toxic to the mountain bike scene. you spread hatred, divisim, and rally against the majority. You go against the grain and shame and make fun of people who don't align with your distorted vision. Please grow up, a guy in his 40's on e bike is not going to change the mindset of the website. Just clear your eyes.
  • 92 14
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Some people just need electronics to get the job done when they can no longer keep up on the real thing. Like your girlfriend when she say's she'd just rather use her vibrator from now on.
  • 8 3
 I agree that it's sad that a iconic bike name is being rehashed into something else. Santa Cruz also did that with the heckler. Considering their marketing budget it's a bit surprising they couldn't come up with a new name for what is an entirely new bike.
  • 35 11
 @ridingofthebikes: Agreed, @DoubleCrownAddict is such a douchebag. Im yet to read one valid opinion from that little MAGA troll. Such a waste of space.
  • 49 6
 @DoubleCrownAddict: if anyone bothered like I just did you go into your profile......holy f*ck mate. lol

you. need. help.
  • 49 3
 Does pinkbike have an @doublecrownaddict filter?
  • 14 2
 @JPones: If you want a chuckle, take a look at his profiles quote. Delusional is the word that comes to mind.
  • 20 1
 @conoat: h o l y s h i i i i i t. Just checked his profile. What a nutcase. Not sure if I should call for a wellness check or the FBI...
  • 7 2
 @Maestroman87: Hahaha that peanut passed delusional several hundred kilometres back...
  • 2 1
 @Glenngineer: Haha the first time I saw a bullit in person the downtube stood out to me. It is seriously massive.
  • 29 16
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I hate laz-e-bikes but if u like them great for you. I think there destroying the sport so I guess that's why a lot of people hate them. There selling well only because humans are mostly lazy.
I'm 100% for people using e-bikes if they have a genuine issue with riding a traditional bike but it's sad to see so many young people starting out on these now.
  • 17 3
 @chriskneeland: There are lots of ebikers with bad attitudes BUT the majority imo are just mtbers who enjoy going out on great rides like myself !
Love my none e bike too !
  • 10 2
 @DoubleCrownAddict: It's really not as much of a Triggered, Snowflake comment as you make it out to be. I'm disappointed that it's not as cool as it could have been. It's similar to the sadness I feel with the new Chevrolet Blazer. It's nothing like the original and only shares the same name. It's not hating E-Bikes, just disappointed in SC for what they did with an Iconic name.
  • 3 5
 @gtill9000: Waki filter might work
  • 14 3
 Doublecrownaddict has been a troll account for years...pretty sure by design. Anything inflammatory is posted including pics. Be willing to be most he/she posts isn't even their true beliefs.
  • 14 8
 @DoubleCrownAddict: so are all "regular" bike riders now QAnon White Supremacist Nazis? Or is that still reserved for YT riders only?
  • 19 2
 @syeve: I look forward to the day trump is no longer in not just every single political conversation but even top comments on mtb forums. Sadly I think it's going to be a while.
  • 5 6
 @Spencermon: OK, fair enough.
  • 5 0
 Kranked 3 baby! The Bullit in it’s prime with Monster T’s - it inspired a movement!
  • 15 8
 @ridingofthebikes: A bit harsh... Your opinion of @DoubleCrownAddict has a hint of exactly what your accusing him of. Your suggesting that his unique opinion is a minority opinion and because of that he should not have a voice.

He appears to be stoked about his e-bike experience and wants other to join him. Is that so bad?
  • 1 1
 Well said Sir!
  • 5 5
 Anyone who rode the original bullit would embrace this bike (not the price)
  • 22 14
 @DoubleCrownAddict: lmao literally every forum or post about e bikes this guy gets in a hissy fit when somebody says anything remotely bad about e bikes and starts calling normal bikes slow etc...dude any 30 year old guy who goes gyms is gonna be faster and shred harder than your 50 year old pot bellied fat ass cruising around on your power wheels. Since when was being able to get up a hill at 15mph ever considered 'fast'? No one gives a crap how fast you get those pigs up the hill when on a normal bike you go back down at 30+ mph. Look at the thing is weighs 50 freaking pounds... And don't tell me weight doesn't matter, I strapped 12kg of weight to my sb165 just to test the effects of more sprung mass on suspension and it did indeed improve the feel of the suspension probably about 20% or so but my god the handling was utter shite, this was with weight strapped right near the bb and my god the reluctancy for the bike to turn and switch direction was way more noticeable than the improved suspension, the bike felt like going from a rally car to a van. You can start saying e bikes are better when the motors don't have a speed limiter and weigh 35lbs or less...until then they are just winches to get fat weak asses like yourself up the hill, compromise being utter shite agility on the way back down.... Lmao 15mph power wheels guys calling normal bikes slow, some pro dudes are hitting north of 40mph downhill and with way more agility than you XD
  • 6 3
 @SlodownU: I think an ebike is used to conserve energy so you can improve your downhill riding skills.
  • 3 4
 @conoat: word dude. He’s got so much nasty nazi and q anon stuff there.
  • 2 0
 @zmums: Realize he isnt Qanon or Nazi supporting...he calls EVERYONE else that.
Specifically YT owners...

m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=227030&pagenum=1
  • 4 3
 @conoat: yeah he's got albums glorifying nazi symbols all over his profile, how is he allowed to be on pinkbike? @mikekazimer
  • 4 15
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 2, 2021 at 21:11) (Below Threshold)
 @chriskneeland: Sounds like you might be speaking from a personal experience.
  • 6 15
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 2, 2021 at 21:19) (Below Threshold)
 @kawkaw: If you read the comments on the images you can see I am actually critical of them and not in any way glorifying then. I'm pro-black lives matter and all for equality and social justice. It's part of a blog project I'm working on about YT Bikes offensive and MAGA/Nazi-affiliated advertising and marketing. Hopefully some day soon you'll see it on the front page of Pinkbike. Follow me if you want to have the first opportunity to see it, it could be dropping soon.
  • 11 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: We're eagerly awaiting your frontpage e-bike nazi blog post
  • 5 6
 @thegoodflow: can we just calm down a tab boys lol
@danzzz88 You should try one and then if you still feel the same , slate them but you can’t strap 12kg to your bike and say ebikes are shit !
I’m late 40’s and give you a run for your money on any bike pal Big Grin
  • 2 0
 A German bike brand running nazi-affiliated advertising? This should be good, they’ll probably have to close down
  • 2 0
 @scitrainer: I think I might have inadvertently joined the wrong club, I thought I was buying a direct sell bike not a right wing idealism. Glad I didnt get any of their tattoosSmile
  • 2 1
 @Danzzz88: absolutely spot on.
  • 3 1
 @Baller7756: Look at his profile and then read his comment's, the dude is an absolute whack job. You are saying he is sharing his minority opinion, but all I see is him talking shit and attacking people who have a dissimilar opinion to his. Dudes gotta go.
  • 2 4
 @chriskneeland: f*cking awesome!
  • 4 0
 @calarco68: Here’s a dirty little secret; you downhill skills also improve when you get stronger and more fit.
  • 3 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: my bad. i saw them again and does seem like you are criticising them. Seems strange YT would do this given how strongly the german government comes down on anything related to nazis or their symbols.
  • 2 1
 @SlodownU: also by doing 3runs to your 1 !
  • 1 2
 @Matt115lamb: Doubt it, I'm getting up Revs on the Land rover miles faster than e biking it back up to the top...
  • 2 8
flag mtbufu (Mar 3, 2021 at 7:49) (Below Threshold)
 @brianpark @mikelevy @mikekazimer can you guy do something about all the Nazi shit posted on this guys profile? That must be in violation of TOS
  • 4 1
 @mtbufu, did you read the photo captions? None of them are promoting Nazis - apparently he's working on a blog post or something. Still a little strange, though.
  • 2 3
 @mtbufu: It'd be a lot more interesting if they reached out to YT to see why they use all the Nazi symbolism in their ads and artwork.
  • 3 7
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 3, 2021 at 9:15) (Below Threshold)
 @Boondocker390: That's simply not true, look at my recent e bike post and my top comment on the trans x post:

m.pinkbike.com/news/tranzxs-new-integrated-travel-adjust-dropper-post-will-fit-any-frame.html

m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=227340

I was a bit harsh here but I'm passionate about e bikes and tired of the hate.
  • 3 4
 @kawkaw: Exactly, YT probably haven't violated any laws since it can be considered art, but they should be more respectful of their countries history and the effect it had on so many lives and other countries.
  • 5 8
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Regardless you are still a vile little troll whose life's achievement is this PB comments bullshit. You are so insignificant that pissing people off so that they bitch at you on PB makes you feel like you actually exist. Pathetic. f*ck. Off.
  • 2 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Good Lord...

BTW way to COMPLETELY change the title AND content of your original post at the link I provided...

Original title was something like: "YT is a Nazi/MAGA White supremacist company..."

And the original post linked to all types of conspiracy BS, as well as calling an Owl an Eagle and associating the Austrian flag with Nazis...

Why Did You Change It?
  • 2 0
 so whats it going to take to get people to stop talking about this
  • 4 0
 @hamncheez: a meteor possibly, we're f*cked lol.
  • 1 1
 uummm. Thats a car price.
  • 1 4
 @sebmx: that's a pretty shitty car though. lol
  • 2 0
 @conoat: Is it? You can get a pretty decent car for that price in most of Canada. Not new of course but 3-5 years old, under 80k km... lots of different sedans, CUV's or SUV's to choose from. Not so much trucks though.
  • 1 0
 @Maestroman87: I can find 2011 ford f150s 4x4 crew cab for this price, sure, but I feel like you have to compare new for new, and for $11k you can't get much for a new car....
  • 3 1
 Anyone defending doublecrownaddict clearly missed his recent hate-spewing tirade, during which he accused Vali Höll of riding a nazi themed bike at World Champs, because he erroneously stated the Austrian Flag and coat of arms were “nazi symbols”. When questioned about this, he unsurprisingly deleted the photo and edited his comments.
  • 1 0
 @TypicalCanadian: Who are you referring to?
  • 2 0
 @TypicalCanadian: Sorry I gotcha now.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: True. I was never one to buy into the "you can buy x" for the price of a bike. That's a steep slope to tread.
  • 2 5
 @kawkaw: Allowed? Who are you to judge someone else? Who are you to take something from someone else?
  • 3 0
 I don’t understand the point in making carbon ebikes. They weigh enough that the weight saving is a minimal gain. They cost more. And they will need replacing quicker than a normal bike when the battery and motor tech is obsolete. Before 2030 most of these frames will be in landfill.

I’m sure the performance is good but if I wanted a powered bike it’s not where I’d spend my hard earned.
  • 1 1
 @Maestroman87: so you're comparing a very used economy car to a brand new ebike? why don't you just compare an apple to say an orange!?
  • 1 1
 @Altron5000: the same reason to buy a regular carbon bike over and ALU one...

of the top 3 reasons to buy carbon, weight doesn't make the list.
  • 2 0
 @conoat: you can't really compare them at all. Two very different functions. I was simply responding to the one starting the "you can buy x for the price of this bike". You can't compare a new car to a new bike either. The problem is that people think a products cost is only based on the volume of materials used. It's so much more ..I still think the price of this bike is insane, but it's not because of its relation to the cost of a vehicle.
  • 4 1
 @conoat: I'll have to disagree. Carbon bike frames (when done well) are easily 2 pounds lighter than aluminum. That matters for enduro, and obviously even more for XC. Good carbon can also be made to ride with a better ride quality, kind of like steel, but even better because you can tune the direction of the flex with complex shapes. Subtle frame flex, tracking, and compliance matter when you have 120mm of travel. It is also noticeable on a longer travel bike; ride Scotts carbon bikes to feel that goodness.

Once you throw a 7 pound motor/controller and 10 pound battery on the frame none of that really matters anymore, so carbon doesn't really matter much anymore.
  • 3 1
 I used to ride a Bullit back in the day, frame color was root beer. It had a 24" rear wheel with a double wide rim, 5th Element rear shock and Marzocchi Z150 fork, the first 150mm single crown fork. The fork was pretty much solid steel and weighed like 7lbs in order to keep it stiff. That bike was insane back then, I rode so much stupid crazy shit.

Now it's an ebike and the only thing the two have in common is the weight. What the f*ck.
  • 2 1
 @warmerdamj: Yep, WTAF
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: the fact the frame is lighter isn't in dispute. what my point was, was that it matters less than ride quality, strength and fatigue resistance.
  • 2 1
 @warmerdamj: nailed it. Big Grin
  • 2 1
 @Boondocker390: I don't think we need to look into his profile or his past... or anyone's for that matter and pass judgement without context.

His view is part of a diverse perspective on the this subject and any other subject. I appreciate the different perspective and utilize it in formulating my thoughts on the subject. To cancel his or anyone else's opinion is a disservice to everyone... including yourself.

5 years from now, when you are out riding your new e-bike... what will you think about canceling that guy that was touting them as the next great thing?
  • 1 0
 $11,499............ What the actual fuggh????
  • 1 0
 @MTBrent: That thing is hideous if I may say so myself
  • 4 0
 I’ve been riding Mt Tam since the Excelsior days. Have had many high performance machines over the years. EMTBs have their place for us old fuks that still enjoy getting out on the mountain. I concur it’s a different sport for the most part. But at 64, I’ll take what I can get.
  • 1 0
 @Mjtwing: Fair enough
  • 1 0
 @Maestroman87: I'm guessing its since been edited to the current one?
  • 57 1
 I'd have a real hard time spending $11k on a bike that rattles out of the gate...
  • 9 4
 There is nothing 11k about it, you are paying a huge premium for the fact it's an E bike and has Santa Cruz written down the side. The frame probs cost less than £500 to make, the battery and motor cost like a grand to buy, all the rest of the crap you get on a top spec Decoy... I own a Yeti so I can't really talk about value for money but then I bought my parts cheap and got deals.. this bike is a complete utter piss take as is the Levo SL. These companies adding like £3k onto their top models just because it has a motor and battery that costs a grand RRP when bought solo. Instead of having a fixed markup to make profit, they have an exponential mark up so the higher priced bikes you are paying considerably more than RRP for seperate parts because you are buying it as a whole premium bike. Total and utter rip off. Only guys that can afford bikes like these are guys that are middle aged, own their own business etc and can't even ride or jump a bike anyway...they just buy it because the high price tag means success to them.
  • 5 3
 @Danzzz88: besides your back of the napkin math being wildly wrong, your entire rant here drips in so much envy that it's palpable.

I guess I can count myself as a middle age guy with enough money to buy this bike several times over. Do you think that means I can't ride!? It probably means I have a small dick too, yeah? lmao. What you are doing here is slagging off people that have the means that you do not. It's serious small dick energy. don't do that.
  • 2 1
 @conoat: Funny how you and the other fella above are always the ones getting triggered yet you say I'm the one that is envious? I rather have my sb165 than that ugly bike above any day of the week, I have nothing ro be envious about, PUSH 11.6, 1300gram wheelset, better brakes than this bike...my entire build is better specced than the above and cost me considerably less money.
  • 4 2
 @Danzzz88: LMAO. you have a 1300g wheelset on a super enduro bike? wanna know how I know you don't ride hard!???

btw, what wheelset you got? I gotta hear this...
  • 1 1
 @conoat: Carbon Ti hubs, Stans carbon hoops. Had Onyx hubs and dt511 rims on previous bike and they were like bricks in comparison, these are miles stronger, more reliable, lighter, stay truer, stiffer and well yea just better all round wheels than even Richie Rude is running so pretty sure my wheelset doesn't determine how hard I ride Wink
  • 2 3
 @Danzzz88: so you have to be running the Crest CB7 to get to that weight. why would you run an XC rim on a single crown downhill bike??lol
  • 2 2
 @conoat: you seem to be makong a lot of assumptions don't you, I thought wisdom comes with age...try again fella
  • 2 2
 @Danzzz88: it's less assumptions and more math. But you keep lying for fake internet points from people you don't know!
  • 1 1
 @conoat: Dude how arrogant are you that you think you are always right, how the f*ck do you know what rims and spokes I have... Your closed mindedness correlates with your apparent lack of iq. I don't need no internet points, only reason I reply to you is literally to rub more shit in your dumbass face, it's worth the small amount of time to respond just to humiliate you but otherwise I don't give a toss what anyone else reading this thinks.
  • 2 2
 @Danzzz88: you understand that all the weights of the products you listed are readily available on the internet, right? lmao. try again, son.

here is the thing: had you simply said 1400g wheelset, I wouldn't have said a word. but you got greedy with your lie. you wanted to be just *that* much cooler. I would go so far as to say you probably don't have a 165 or a 11.6 or.....a life.
  • 1 3
 @conoat: Stans 'Bravo rims', Carbon Ti hubs, Berd spokes... Try again smartass....don't ever go thinking your smart my man, many people are smarter than you, if you had high enough IQ you would have realised that you could have been wrong about your assumptions or at least done better research. The fact you are actually going to the effort of adding up my parts in a desperate attempt to disprove me shows how pathetic you are. Now go take that info and recalculate with the addition you learnt back in primary. Don't try playing chess against people considerably smarter than you mate, you're gonna lose every time. Now go do your sums and cry in the corner... southern c*nt.
  • 2 2
 @Danzzz88: you toothless dolt. those are 450g per hoop in 27.5. I was being generous when I quoted the Crest hoops as they are the ligthest possible. so 900 gram hoops, 300g of hubs(assuming for you sake 28h), 140g in spokes. you can add, yes? thats 1340 before you tape them and put valves on. so, you know....a bit closer to the 1400g I said a bit ago.

is the zzz in your name denoting your mental state right now?
  • 1 1
 @conoat: 95g front hub, 185g rear hub= 180 grams so put's that figure at 1320...my bad I forgot how important including vslve stems is in wheelset weights as that's what all prebuilt wheel manufactures fo riiiight, sure all them Navics, I9's and Hopes etc come eith valve stems when they quote weights...? Moron, again you failed to see the XD driver is lighter than the micro spline, but regardless this still proves you are absolutely desperate to try prove me wrong. Give up..
  • 7 0
 @Danzzz88 @conoat Jesus Christ, your'e both pretty, give it a rest FFS
  • 49 3
 Seems like e-bikes are still going through growing pains.
  • 34 9
 So based on the power of the motor, the bike needs a really knobby tire, big powerful brakes, and a heavier more robust hub to handle the torque.

Hmm, sounds like some suggested solutions that may or may not have already been sorted out in the past... might I also recommend a small radiator to help keep the motor cool?
  • 10 0
 Was thinking the same. For the significant gains in weight, price and maintenance, the reliability needs to be exceptional. Similar to a moto in this sense, you don't want something that heavy breaking down in the backcountry, where what was once a performance benefit becomes a serious liability.
  • 10 3
 @gemma8788: I'm approaching 2000 trail miles on my shimano8000 motor...roasting pads and tires* but the drive unit's been flawless.

*maintenance intervals for all the wear items aren't any shorter, I'm just hitting them sooner because of three bike lifetimes in the past year!

bikes are dialed!!!
  • 4 0
 @gemma8788: Yeah for sure. A dead motor on a 50 pound bike sounds like the most aggravating/frustrating type of issue.
  • 4 1
 @owl-X: Oh I'm sure there are a lot of positive experiences out there, and I'm glad yours is one of them. But between you (pos) and the reviewer (neg), that's 1/1. Going to take a consensus. Not knocking e-bikes in general, but my point above remains. They need to be exceptionally reliable for people who aren't super rich and who really get out there. Also, a noisy/rattly motor such as the reviewer described is another hefty negative (for me).

Again, glad you're stoked on your ride! I'd knock on wood if I were you ; )
  • 2 0
 @gemma8788: really not meant for the back country. Meant for busting laps.
  • 4 0
 @platnum: That's true, but that also reinforces my point. You wouldn't want to take one into the back country/something with a battery on a multi-day ride. But you can get pretty far out there in one day, especially depending on where you start and especially with a motor (which is designed to take you farther).

Even a place like Downieville would be a massive bummer (esp on the non-classic routes), or say you're in a valley and need to climb 1000m to cross a pass to town to end the day, it would f'ing suck to have to pedal a 50lb bike with extra drag up/out of that. I'm stoked on the future of electric bikes, but they have to be even more reliable than traditional bikes to justify the cost/weight/maintenance. If they're only good for lunch laps, they aren't practical for the average biker and they aren't going to help those who need them due to age/physical limitations access a broad range of trails with peace of mind.
  • 5 1
 E010 is often triggered by applying torque to the pedals while powering on the system. It is well known and documented. Short answer; Steps system cannot determine what 0 torque is when torque is applied at startup..

E7000/8000 and EP8 all have this issue. Best way to avoid is turn on the power unit without a rider on the bike at all/ bike stationary, not moving. Once it's on, leave it on all day. You're only depleting the battery when pedaling.

Saying an ebike is unreliable & can't be trusted is more false of a statement than saying your fuel injected vehicle can't be trusted. IF the Ebike system fails, you simply ride home a heavy bike. Your fuel injection fails, you're walking. I'd rather have pedals and wheels than walk.
  • 3 0
 @cstishenko: Interesting, I didn't know that. And fully agree, would much rather have a heavy bike with pedals and wheels than try to walk out a moto. I'd just argue that fuel injected vehicles have a longer history and are incredibly reliably. Incredibly reliable even with half-hearted maintenance. But I also wasn't saying they (ebikes) can't be trusted more than fuel injection; I was saying they can't be trusted more than a traditional bicycle (yet). And this back and forth on this sub-thread has been pretty good, but continues to reinforce the point. You have to know you can't pedal at startup (and if you accidentally do?). It's just a new system that has to be learned and refined and trusted over time, and the people that really *need* them (older/physical limitations) absolutely cannot risk getting stuck out there with a 50lb bike, even if out there is only ~10 miles. Not sure how many times I have to say I'm pro e-bikes, but the reviewer got stuck on a brand new $11,500 bike b/c he pedaled at the wrong time.
  • 3 0
 @gemma8788: An ebikes range is determined by the level of support from the motor, rolling resistance and the size of the battery. If ridden in ECO, a 180mm ebike can feel similar to a normal all mountain bike. You still get in an excellent workout.

An ebike ridden solely in ECO mode, with a low level of support can achieve upwards of 100km on a charge. If you're putting in more than 100 km/day with any climbing involved an Ebike isn't for you.

Regardless of age or ability, the ebike is flexible in the way you can hammer out multiple laps - or have an all day 100km epic. The beauty is in the way this can be changed by the press of a button all in one ride. Many ebikes also have quick change battery options, where a spare can be thrown in a pack, some even attach to the bike as range extenders.

Yes there is a larger margin of error with electrical components, but someone who is careful with equipment - issues will be far and few. Shimano wouldn't put it out there if it sucked that bad.
  • 4 0
 @gemma8788: not suggesting you're anti Ebike, your questions and replies are excellent and well presented.

I agree there is a learning curve for sure. But at this point, the technology is at an enjoyable point where the Shimano Steps system is mostly reliable, completely maintenance free other than charging, and the benefit is much MUCH more riding.

So far its been nothing but positive, and I chose to spend much much less than $11,500 for a bike. You spec to your riding style. At $7500 CAD I figure I spent appx $1500 more than I would have on a normal bike in the same trim level - making the Steps system appx $1500. Is it worth $1500 to me? The fact I can double my typical KM count in a day says yes.
  • 3 0
 @cstishenko: Word! And likewise your replies are excellent counters and further explanations of your POV. I can be just dumb stubborn sometimes and I feel like I'm pushing small details at this point, but ones that are important to me (and again, for those who use them as a true physical "assist"; I used to help sell e-bikes at the shop I worked at, and a lot of my customers fit this description so I'm always looking out for them ; ).

$7500 CAD is reasonable in the realm of bike prices, and early/early-ish adopters like you are going to help push the tech to be better, lighter, faster, stronger. My riding friends (none of us have e-bikes yet) always see e-bikes out there on the climbs and we all kind of look at each other like, "It's only a matter of time before we're on that train!" Haha anyway, covid luckily cancelled work for me today, so I'm hitting the trails. Cheers dude, thx for the perspectives!
  • 5 2
 @gemma8788: I also was very stubborn towards them at first. In my 30's and in decent shape, I have full ability to ride a non motorized bike. My last was a 170/170 Kona Enduro bike.

I however work alot, which involves walking 5-10km a day in steel/safety toed boots. When I'm off work, I want all the good stuff, none of the suffer. Im still down for a good workout - but not killing myself. The wife works a desk job, her fitness level isnt the same as mine. I can ride in Eco, she can ride in Trail mode with that bit more of assistance - and we're now the same speed. I used to wait at the top of the hill while she hated every second of the climb, to the point where she stopped riding with me. Now we ride together again, and she is invigorated to ride. Instead of doing a 20km rounder with X amount of climbing, we're doing a 40km with XX amount of climbing. Key word (we're).

It has been all good so far. I researched the hell out of them, with most of the changes being for added power and torque. Personally encountering one user with just over !!15,000km!! on his Shimano powered ebike, he says the battery isn't providing as many km as it used to.

That's a lot of riding man! And isn't that what we're all in it for, the riding? Ebike rider etiquette is something that needs to improve, but I'm hoping that will also come in time.

Enjoy the day!
  • 1 0
 @ninjatarian: Mondraker Ebikes have air scoops at the top of the downtube to channel air in past the battery and motor! that count? lol
  • 2 0
 @gemma8788: I used some electricity and googled: electric motors predate internal combustion engines, and are much simpler. I've had Bosch, Curry (TransX?), Shimano, and no-name hub motors and they've all been at least as durable as anything else on their respective bikes...spoked wheels are ancient and I'm gonna stick wiht them too...even though they blow up sometimes.

My 180mm travel / 52lb monster is not only a great descender, it's the best XC bike I've ever owned. I took it on a 35 mile / 8500ft ride last summer and pedaled 5 miles or so with the motor off, it was definitely tough. But actually remained fun the whole (truncated) time.

ebikes are great. and only getting better.

and the shimano "you pushed start with your foot on the pedal" error is 013, is it not? I dunno, I'm still on 8000 motor

luv ya
  • 42 5
 Man I love 29 in wheels for freeride. They really help with spin tricks
  • 69 13
 Same. Once I start spinning the momentum really helps me stomp those 1080s. Also, this only has one 29” wheel.
  • 3 13
flag Cpstyps (Mar 2, 2021 at 8:20) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: wait you can do 1080s on a 29er?
  • 36 0
 @Cpstyps: I seen em. He even winked at me mid spin, I was like “woooo”
  • 14 2
 I'm pretty sure my 29" wheels are the only thing holding me back from landing spins. I should have gone with the more playful wheel size.
  • 3 1
 @VtVolk: ha i think there was sarcasm there confirming this.
  • 5 0
 @Cpstyps: you can do $1080s, 10 in 1 day, maybe 11 or 12 if you are Canadian
  • 31 1
 This seems pretty poor for that much money.

I don't hate the design, I don't hate eBikes...but it feels to me that putting the Bullit name on it is kind of like what Ford did with the Mustang Mach E. The Bullit was an icon, I owned one. Loved that bike.

I find it hilarious that it isn't rated for a DC...being a 50+ lb freeride bike...
  • 26 4
 What’s the point of putting carbon rims on a bike that already weighs as much as a small car.
  • 31 2
 Cause without the carbon rims it weighs as much as a family car
  • 6 0
 @JPones @CM999 probably more so to keep their build kit options in line across the models. Plus, they will hold up better than alloy rims will, especially with how heavy that bike is.
  • 22 0
 Climbs like an ebike
  • 11 0
 Like an e-goat
  • 19 0
 I kinda like it but wouldn't buy it.
  • 11 45
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Mar 2, 2021 at 8:21) (Below Threshold)
 Huge improvement over their first effort, though spendy.
  • 5 3
 @DoubleCrownAddict: nah the hecklers way nicer imo
  • 15 2
 @DoubleCrownAddict: dude wtf is up with the images on your account??
  • 18 0
 Good on you for doing a pedal lap on that beast when the motor went out @mikekazimer
  • 4 1
 No joke. I’ve pedaled out a few times dead. It’s not pleasant.
  • 16 0
 Once I see $11k & DT 350 hubs in the same sentence I die a little bit inside
  • 6 0
 Yeah. DT Swiss 350s are great hubs, but at 11K they should have 240s which are better and more fitting.
  • 15 1
 Rode a Levo SL few weeks ago. Forgot I was on an ebike until I checked my Strava and saw that I had about 100 KOMs, had to changed ride type immediately.
  • 7 2
 Thing is amazing, aint it! I'm not down with the big heavy full powered rigs like this SC, just not my thing. But SL, or Orbea, that's the way I'll go for my first E addition to my quiver.
  • 2 2
 @Chuckolicious: Yea, I think people reflexively dismiss anything from the Big S, because they like to virtue signal and claim they don't deal with companies that sue the little guys. They say this as they hold an iPhone in their hand (Apple has sued thousands of companies into oblivion, but virtue signalers like to cherry pick their causes).

I can't get over the ugly aesthetic of ebikes; Specialized definitely has won the looks game, and maybe the overall package game (if you're gonna compare watts to watts, then there are more powerful batteries/motors, but you still have Class 1/3 limitations to deal with), what with their phone apps controlling ride performance/length/etc. For now, most companies grab an off-the-shelf, then bolt a battery onto the water bottle mounts and zip-tie a motor to the BB and call it a day.
  • 4 0
 @Chuckolicious: rumor has it you can change out the 210x55 shock on the Orbea and run a 213x63 shock for a 160mm rear travel 27.5 rear end.
So a sub 40lb mullet Ebike with a 160 or 170 29er fork
  • 3 0
 @vanillarice19: That would be dope! See if we can get Rob Rides to do a piece on that?
  • 1 0
 And unlike these 50+ lb monsters, you can pedal the Levo SL with the motor off with almost no drag and less weight. I don't want a Specialized but they're the only ones I can see that are in the market for "lightweight" ebikes that really ride like a mtb (but with motor noise).
  • 1 0
 @kattrap: Orbea Rise has little to no drag and is lighter than a SL and cheaper too and more power and more battery. Oh and you can mullet it with 160mm rear travel out back if you want
  • 11 0
 Amongst the many misses here the inability to run a dual crown?? Brands need to consider resurrecting old(beloved) names a little more carefully.
  • 12 1
 This seems a long way off offering the kind of premium refined experience I would expect for that spend.
  • 5 0
 Debris working it's way inside the cover ? Why should that be inevitable ?
Shimano wrote the book on seals.
When you return the motor please ask them about the sealing as well !

Pics of this intrusion and also the VPP mud build up are appreciated.
  • 9 4
 If there is even potentially a way how E-Bikes could make sense, then this bike is the epitome of how that could be. Big, burly freeride machines that absolutely suck to pedal around, but you get electric assistance to compensate for the weight and kinematics.
  • 8 3
 For the Santa Cruz price premium it feels like they didn’t sweat the details on this like they use to do.

Just like how their regular bikes are all a pound and a half too heavy and at least half a generation behind on geometry.

Funny to me that the Santa Cruz ebikes with massive profit margins have way fewer supply chain issues than the regular bikes.
  • 3 5
 Yeah Santa Cruz are all way too heavy and overpriced. I know so many people that have them, but I wonder: why?
  • 8 0
 How much of a pain is it to change your bars with that wire in it?
  • 20 3
 Shockingly difficult.
  • 2 1
 @ReformedRoadie: Just like on a Di2 equipped road bike with internal handlebar routing. Painful.
  • 5 0
 It's easy to both unthread the wire and thread the wire. No big deal. I'm a Heckler owner love the design of the bar.
  • 13 6
 I still get sticker shock looking at the cost. Cost so much more than a dirt bike.
  • 5 4
 This bike costs more than my first motorcycle and first three cars. Combined.
  • 15 2
 For the "but bikes are different" crowd, the Alta Redshift, an electric with the power of a 450, top end suspension, actual engineering (pack and drivetrain design, not shoving a Shimano motor in a carbon mold), and lower production numbers BY FAR than these E bikes, MSRP'd at $11.9k.
  • 7 1
 @GorgeousBeauGaston: yup. More actual engineering than Santa Cruz has done in their lifetime.
  • 5 0
 @GorgeousBeauGaston: Except Alta went belly up.
  • 6 2
 @Circe: Alta may have gone under but even with the KTM tax, you can get a 2021 Freeride E-XC for $10,500. I'm pretty certain they're low volume as well and have magnitudes more technology, suspension, etc. than this SC ebike. Shits just gotten silly at this point...
  • 5 0
 Looks fancy. Gonna need a security guard to watch the bike rack when chuggin beers and inhaling tacos at the watering hole...or champagne and caviar at the michelin star mountain biker hangout.
  • 9 0
 My butler is assigned this task.
  • 4 1
 Bought a YT decoy elite for my dad and I to share...$7k lmao. And I thought that was pricey.

The comment about brake pads is very true, I blow through pads, annoying af.

Why not put a DH casing on the front lol, why a DD on an ebike.....
  • 2 0
 Decoy was the first emtb that really had me going... I want that. Thanks for reminding me to order more pads. Personally a dh casing on the front is overkill. Standard assagai up front does the trick.
  • 2 0
 @onemanarmy: to each his own, it’s all relative to how hard you’re pushing / how much you weigh.

A beefy tire is a requirement if you want to push heavy ass e bikes to their limits in tech / etc...I mean, goes for any bike really, but the extra weight makes it less of an option more of a necessity. It folds and gets deflected like a little bitch without a heavy casing.
  • 1 0
 @nvranka:

beefier tires help a lot. Perfect example is the Levo. One of the biggest upgrades you can make is to ditch the tires that come on there and get some real ones.

I actually run the exact same tire set up... well not necessarily size but tire type... on my hardtail and my emtb.

Assegai up front 3C MaxxGrip. Which I guess is a DH casing. Honestly didn't realize it but just looked at the site and there it is... DH casing. LOL!
DHR2 in the rear. 3C MaxxTerra I believe.
  • 5 2
 In some ways I kind of like that SC has decided to eff with their old fans/fan bois by taking two of their iconic bike names and applying them to new rigs that have basically nothing in common with the new ones. I found it amusing that many of the local Santa Cruz fan bois got worked up that SC even got into the eBike game for that matter. My time as a SC fan boi ended around 2013 when they began trying sell everyone $10K bikes in neon colors that performance were just okay. SC stopped being leaders at that point and began playing it safe (cutting edge vs being financially remunitive). They certainly still make some interesting bikes, but they no longer speak to me function-wise, cost-wise, uniqueness-wise or otherwise.
  • 5 2
 @mikekazimer

Where did you do most of your riding for the review?

I'm also in Washington, and the only place I know of off the top of my head where they are legal (on mountain bike trails) around here is Daringtons North mountain area (the shuttle stuff), but admittedly I haven't checked much lately. Maybe there are new places?

I am still not sure how I feel about ebikes personally, but as long as they're not legal anywhere around me, I haven't really felt like they've even been worth thinking about so far (even in my future).
  • 3 0
 Pinkbike comments are hilarious. Constantly negative and jealous!

I missed out on 2 ski seasons due to Covid, so saved and bought a Santa Cruz Bullit in January 2021 instead. I got £1000 off the 'S' Model.

Its absolutely game-changing. I have had it at some classic Scottish Enduro spots so far, and I am doing 6500 ft climbing per day, and like 5x as many descents as I would on my normal bike.

All you grumpy guys who harp on about Ebikes, I take it you skin up the piste at ski resorts, and always avoid the chairlifts yeah?
  • 5 0
 I would hope 50# + gravity would pick up speed quickly...I'd question Newton's genius if it didn't.
  • 1 0
 At first I was like... truth. Then I went wait... heavier mass takes more energy to get moving but once it’s moving it does gain momentum quicker and is harder to stop.
  • 4 0
 @onemanarmy: Wait, are you saying that if you dropped a heavier bike and a lighter bike off a building, the heavier one would hit the ground first? (air resistance not with standing).
  • 1 0
 @Chuckolicious: Missed that class but pretty sure in a vacuum they fall at the same speed.

But in relation to gravity and things rolling...

Example... how much energy is required to get a BMX bike rolling vs. say... a train.

Force equals mass times acceleration or some crap. Think you're thinking of velocity.


Basically the force required to get something moving is mass times acceleration. Figure if A is consistent between objects.... say 25 pound bike and a 50 pound bike to say 25 kph you get...

F=25x25 or F=25x50.

Force required to get your standard mtb rolling to that speed is 625. Force required to get the emtb rolling to the same speed is 1250.

Could be wrong though. I'm old as f*ck and the extent of my math use right now is helping one of my kids with long division and the other with counting apples in a box.
  • 2 0
 @onemanarmy: Yea, it seemed like you were saying once the two bike were accelerated to the same speed, the heavier bike would continue to gain momentum over the lighter bike. While yes, the feather and the bowling ball both fell at the same speed on the moon, I'm not 100% that the same thing applies to this. I'd love to know, though. Maybe the heavier bike encounters the same bumps and energy robbing things but is not effected as much, allowing it to accelerate due to gravity better than the lighter bike. I dunno! Brain too smooth.
  • 11 9
 It is something Inside me I cannot get rational, everytime I read about a new ebike it hurts me a bit..Deep inside of me I feel all this new electric era is wrong and a sad step in our sport. Even more sad if iconic names and brands are forced to build lemons like this one.. C'mon stop all this nonsense . Buying an ebike is wrong as buying a Hummer .. You can buy it , it is legal, but is wrong for you and everyone around you and for the education of the new generations .
  • 2 0
 Very nice bike ,but the price is ridiculous,start selling eframes,cause if they sell a heckler for 2800€ or 3000€ I will be tented to buy one an put my bike parts on it ,cause the rest of the equipment for the price is something to wish for as a complete bike ,even so the quality of the carbon and the lifetime on both frame and bearings is a good value to the brand more in this E bikes cause the rate that a rider will ride them will be enormous compared to a normal one ,but yes nice bike ,SANTA CRUZ start selling the frames with different options on motor please ,cause I can assemble one with better parts an much more cheap if the frames cost as much as the non E
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer Do you feel the adventure riding, conquering techy climbs on this bike helps or hinders you when its time to get back on a traditional bike and do the same? I've only ridden an e-bike once uphill and quickly got off and my regular bike immediately felt broken.
  • 5 0
 The key is to having enough time between the two rides. If you go on an e-bike ride in the morning and then ride a regular bike right after your regular bike will feel sooo sluggish. It's not ideal. Do it the other way around, though, and it'll feel like you've got fresh legs again.
  • 3 0
 It‘s definitly time for offering ebike framekits. Not that I want one... but this is „cow milking“ next level...and I am SC Fanboy...
  • 10 7
 I think it's cool, in the same way I think E dirt bikes are cool. Would love to own one but I'd like to keep non-motorized trails, non-motorized.
  • 14 3
 Ha, you had to dig through the archives for that one. I still don't think there's an actual need for eMTBs, and I'd never have one as my sole mode of off-road transportation, but there's also no denying that they're getting quite good, and aren't going away anytime soon. Plus it's something else to tinker with and figure out, and I do enjoy spending time in my shop.
  • 18 7
 @mikekazimer:
"As mountain bikers, we need to stick together and take a stand to protect the integrity of the sport against these electric intruders."

Gold Jerry. Gold!
  • 14 0
 @christophero, my attempts at starting an uprising obviously failed. Looks like I need a new windmill to tilt at.
  • 7 1
 @mikekazimer: Spoken like a young dude. All the negative comments I see on Ebikes come from from young guys. By that I mean anyone 50 and under. You can’t imagine at that age that you are ever going to lose your physical ability. When you hit your 60’s, unless you are a world class athlete, there is a huge drop off in your muscle mass and ability to get up hills. I love big rides with lots of tech and steep downs with jumps and drops. At 65 I just can’t do them anymore on a regular bike. Ebikes will keep me riding the good shit into my 70’s and I don’t give a rat’s ass what you kids say.????????
  • 1 0
 @endoguru: I would agree, being the same age. I ride conventional bikes with folk 2-3 x younger than myself, and sometimes struggle to keep up on long arduous climbs, this then results in being more tired and being at somewhat more risk on the DHs (as not only does muscle bulk drift away with age BUT probably more importantly visual processing).
We all ride E bikes as well, and they are a great leveller, particularly for a 20 km 1.25hour non stop blast.
The negative side for me, is on very steep slippery tech trails, they are difficult to slow down and manoeuvre as easily as my much lighter agile trail bike.
  • 1 0
 @endoguru: It's true ... we never think we're going to lose physical abilities or sometimes, even get old. lol

Good job on riding at 65. I follow Ned Overend (also 65) on Strava for inspiration, although he falls more into the world class athlete category.
  • 4 0
 @mikekazimer how many teeth on that DT 350 hub that died? Stock 18T star ratchet or something more?
  • 2 0
 Should have been 24T. That's DT's e-bike ratchet gear.
  • 5 0
 @quehill, it was an 18-tooth. Strangely enough, I had the same thing happen on a brand new 36-tooth ratchet on a non-electric bike just the other day. I'm sending them off to DT to see what they say.
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: it happens sometimes. Enough reports that I carry an 18 tooth spare in my pack for longer back country rides where hiking out would really suck.
  • 4 3
 TBH, everybody talks about how reliable star ratchets are, but they are the most common failed hub mechanism i've seen in real life, always failing in the same way, and in a predictable manner based on the design. (unlike other hub designs, the force from your pedaling does not force debris or lube out of the way to ensure full tooth engagement.)

I really wish we could take a hard look at star ratchets, and stop talking about them being ultra-reliable as a matter of fact.
  • 3 3
 to clarify, i'm not saying that they're terribly unreliable overall, merely that I see them failed more often than other hubs, and that their reputation for reliability seems undeserved, or at least, overhyped, and perhaps taken as a matter of course, when it would be reasonable to treat it with more skepticism.
  • 5 0
 @groghunter: sounds like someone used grease rather than oil. Star ratchet is far more reliable than delicate pawls/tiny springs.
  • 2 2
 @emptybe-er: ignoring that i know that is not the case in many of the occurrences i'm talking about, and that i doubt kazimer was using grease here:

a mechanism that is so unable to tolerate even mild changes in lubricant, is by definition, not a mechanism well suited to reliable operation in the conditions a bike hub sees. that oil will not stay contaminant free.
  • 1 0
 @Speeder01: same here. Most people don't realize they can be serviced/swapped without tools. Assuming you have a hex to remove your axle
  • 4 1
 @groghunter: Ratchet drives use grease, just not thick sticky stuff. Pawl drives don’t tolerate thicker viscosity or sticky grease as well as ratchet drives. Given there are way more pawl systems out there, but I see something like 100 pawl hubs failures to 1 or 2 ratchet drives. It’s not even close. But it's relatively dry here. And I agree, the hub in the test probably had the right lube. Maybe more of an xd/xdr, microspline issue as I’ve not worked on as many of the newest hubs.
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: DT does a 240s hybrid hub with a hardened steel 24t ratchet specifically designed for ebikes. Odd choice from SC to spec a regular hub and expect it to work the same.
  • 2 0
 @dubod22: The 18T ratchets are stronger (larger teeth) than the 24t. I guarantee they're all made from hardened steel. Maybe the 240s hub is better for ebikes, but since the ratchet failed at the teeth, the hub probably was irrelevant unless the spring was put in backwards or something on the 350. The requirement is to not use more than 24t ratchet for ebike: wheelbuilder.com/dt-swiss-star-ratchet-upgrade-kits
  • 2 0
 This is true for all Shimano powered bikes but I wish there was a more elegant solution for the display wire. It looks so exposed dangling from the side and up to the display. Having said that I’ve never broken one so far.
  • 3 0
 I know it, for such an important piece it makes me so nervous I'm going to accidentally rip it out.
  • 6 0
 @mikekazimer: They pretty much all need improvement on interface and routing. So far specialized is miles ahead of everyone in pretty much everything.

Mine is bosch powered. Great motor and battery set up. Love that it has 4 speeds instead of 3. I pretty much never use turbo unless I see a stupid climb that should be impossible and I'm like.... screw it lets give it a go.

But that motor is loud as well and the cradle creaks A LOT... at times. The monitor is nice to look at and functions well but it's in a crazy spot and I've already snapped it off a couple times. It's not bolted in place hopping and praying it never happens again... and their control set up functions well but spins around like crazy and is clunky to use. Walk function is pretty much useless, etc.

I'd basically take the big S's system but Bosch's 4 speeds. That'd be the best combo right now.

Shimano's new set up is solid. But it's 3rd on my list at the moment.

The big S is like Burton... yeah we're gonna put this big line down the middle of your board. Why? Because it works better.. and we can. Rest of you can piss off. That's Specialized right now with EMTB tech. Everyone else is playing catch up.
  • 1 0
 @Aleksis: Agreed and doesn't even have to happen whilst riding.
Friend shipped his road bike and upon arrival one of the Di2 shifter wires has pulled out of the socket.
Which required a Shimano wiring plug tool. Big hassle Really Mad no ride and a trip to the bike shop.
  • 1 0
 Glad the tire spec didn't change from the base model though...I sure am glad because I wouldn't want to spend that $7499 (I am guessing USD) on something with shit tires. Really, wow. Go on with the budget bikes PB, there is much more to those reviews for us mere mortals.
  • 2 1
 The problem with Ebike sceptics is that their brains have not Evolved to match the technology available that allows them to enjoy life even more. If you've got a ego looking for a trip give one a proper long hard and fast non stop uphill and downhill blast and you will come ALIVE and might even find out why you were born . Do you think Einstein would have said " no I won't ride one because my thick mates will give me a hard time" They are a Time Machine with enormous health benefits as you just want to ride it harder every day and turn us into gleeful kids again and broaden our ability to explore terrain multiplying the benefits of one of mens greatest gravity cheating inventions the bicycle. Why would you not want to Explore new Grounds.
Don't Die Wondering. All cycling is cheating gravity rolling resistance and air resistance and purists run the trails barefoot or swim the English channel unassisted. Allow your human brain to Evolve.
E=Mtb²
  • 1 0
 Key to any hopes of drivetrain longevity is steel, steel, steel. Full steel freehub, rachets, cassette with full steel carrier, thick steel chain and ring. The more gears it has, the faster it wears as well. Roasted a full steel NX 12 speed in under 1 month. On 10 speed now!
  • 1 0
 Some really bad toxicity on this message thread, some people need to take a long hard look at how they interact with the world and other riders. We all ride bikes and are passionate about them, and should not be taking unnecessary shots at each other when there are plenty of other people who will do just that to the cycling community. Go away and have a cup of tea, and come back calmer!
  • 1 0
 Let's see...rattletrap, failure prone motor, over geared, over weight, short life drive train, and the top spec bike costs as much as a new KTM 450 motocross racer. Until this stuff is fixed, I'll be sticking with my '18 Nomad 4, and used KTM500, which came in at about the same money as this Emtb...for BOTH!
  • 2 0
 This e10 error was already plaguing the e8000 and could mean a number of things. But its a bit unsettling that shimano still didn't figure that out.
  • 3 0
 Kazimer, who doesn't ride skinnies, successfully stayed on one long enough for a photo lol
  • 3 1
 I bought a brand new enduro bike and a slightly used 250f for less than the price of this ...in canada, during a pandemic. Seems absurd to spend that much on an e-bike.
  • 3 0
 So 11k for a bike that you need to clean more often and has a motor that rattles on trails that said bike is designed for...
  • 2 0
 about the ep8 rattle, my dads bike also does it, it is the chainring turning back and forth slightly and nocking on the engagement, so doest do anything
  • 1 1
 There are plenty of bikes equally as good if not better at HALF that price . You are paying for prestige and nothing more . But , SC isn't worried , they know there are plenty of fools out there that are enamored with Name and image .
  • 2 2
 Demoed one in December and pound for pound one of the best days ive had on a bike, takes the Pi££ climbing and so very much planted when pointing it down hill. BUT ! it wont replace my Megatower at 46 im not ready for a mobility bike ....just yet
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer Please stop comparing bike prices to cars. Its just not an apple to apple comparison. Who should ever get a car for the price of a bike? Thats ridiculous! Something only dentists can afford!
  • 1 1
 I’m not surprised on the price I always felt SC had high prices for weak builds this is why I always stirred away from SC no disrespect to them I just feel for these price ranges you should get more for your money instead of less for your money this is why Commencal, YT, Nukeproof, Fezzari, and Canyon are killing because you get so much more for less
  • 3 0
 Ordered. This thing is sick! Shuttle myself to anything. Seems pretty ideal.
  • 3 0
 Needs to be rated for a dual crown if in freeride class.
  • 3 0
 Agreed but the 38 is plenty of fork.

Even on the kenevo I’d go 38 over the 40.
  • 4 4
 Santa Cruz is losing its way IMHO. I used to have 3 SC bikes hanging up. Now, Specialized & Norco. Each to their own I guess, but they do seem to be shifting their approach lately.
  • 2 0
 Well mine will be here in July supposedly so I guess I can find out first hand. Fingers crossed!!!
  • 1 0
 So Kazimer is doing reviews on Ebikes now .... that probably means its finally the time to reconsider my attitude and test some of the latest
  • 2 2
 It's a hideous machine from the esthetics dept. I don't think it will age well, and still too heavy and too expensive for any real adoption.

Orbea seemed to have reasonable weight for their model (35lbs?).
  • 1 0
 Interview with Rob roskopp after he sold santa Cruz in 2015. No fat bikes. Ebikes apparently ok though.
www.bikemag.com/features/profiles/interview-rob-roskopp
  • 15 14
 I used to believe in Santa Cruz. I've owned a Blur LT, a Bronson, and a Hightower. I don't believe in Santa Cruz any more.
  • 2 0
 Tönt
  • 2 0
 if they make a full 29" version, my wallet will be in grave danger
  • 1 1
 Is there even another e-bike in the list on your 'comparison' tool? I see bikes on there from 2011 listed. How is this tool supposed to be of any use?
  • 9 9
 Sooo.. this electric bikes are getting really good but they are just not quite there yet. Maybe a Yamaha WR250F for 8.5k is better buy
  • 5 2
 Have fun ride no that on your local bike trails.
  • 4 0
 then there's this:
www.ktm.com/en-us/models/e-ride/freeride/ktm-freeride-e-xc2021.html

a little more, but more stealthy for sure.
  • 4 3
 It also rattles on rougher descents. So thats only about 50% of the time aboard this massively overpriced sled then.
  • 2 0
 HAHAHAhahaha not Dual Crown compatible?!! Hold my beer...
  • 3 1
 EP8 rattling all the way home...
  • 2 0
 Not sure about the frame colour tbh
  • 4 2
 The cheapening of a sport is stratospherically expensive.
  • 1 0
 The EP8 rattle noise is a Shimano complete fail. 11.000$ and your bike sounds like it's falling apart? C'mon
  • 2 0
 I'm only happy when I'm angry.
  • 1 0
 I bet Levy sabotaged the the motor on the Bullit just so he could watch Kazimer have to pedal a 50lb bike home.
  • 1 0
 I bet @mikelevy sabotaged the motor on the bullit just so he could watch @mikekazimer pedal this 50lb piece of carbon home.
  • 1 0
 That's gotta be the first time I've seen a U2 reference on PB. Very funny, @mikekazimer
  • 2 0
 EP8...
  • 8 7
 This is NOT a bullit. Come on. Sacrilege!
  • 3 1
 It's like Ford putting the mustang badge on an electric SUV
  • 1 0
 Looks like you need to carry a code reader one every ride lol
  • 3 4
 No, lol. Thats around R200k SA money. I could have a decent Hypermotard and three other bicycles for that. Fuck off bike industry.
  • 3 2
 Same price as the best enduro motorcycle in the world. Hmm
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer - How many teeth were on the star ratchet you stripped?
  • 4 3
 JUST RIDE A DMAN NORMAL BIKE!!
  • 1 0
 Should’ve named it Bull-E
  • 1 0
 EMotors Shimano, Drivetrain SRAM Pluralism so good
  • 2 0
 Just build an E-V10 FFS.
  • 1 0
 Next they're going to re-release the super 8 without a pop-can holder.
  • 1 0
 Its definitely a better looking e-bike....they just lost me on the price
  • 5 5
 Why not just ride a dirt bike, they’re cheaper?

What happened to pedaling yourself uphill??
  • 2 5
 i know right.
some people get older and/or picked up injuries.........most others by the vast majority are just lazy who like the lifestyle of riding mtb's but dont want to put in the graft and earn there turns and get the rewards that hard effort pays off so they get an e-bike. I find it depressing to see my local trails flooded with what appears to be many young perfectly able bodied people whirring around on e-bikes.

I have the upmost respect for riders who put in the graft and i would rather see someone slowly going round a trail as there new and learning or perhaps instead because of the passage of time has slowed a rider down (after all it happens to us all) but i do not consider e-bike riding to be the same and i do consider it a lazy option (if you are perfectly able bodied obviously).

I love all the "i work 40 hours a week, have 2 kids, 2 hamsters and a goldfish and therefore don't have the time to ride for 20 miles at a time so instead spend the same time on an ebike" excuses......its all about life choices. I would like to have the physique of a regular gym going individual but i like food too much so i cycle my 90kg frame around to the best of my ability and i am still despite all this decently fast because of the hard work i have put in to cycling all these years (just don't expect me to jog far as im crap at that).
so many people aspire for the image of being a mountain biker but cant be arsed to put the effort in so now companies have found the golden ticket of selling the image with minimal effort required as the entry now only being a matter of money.........e-bikes are here to stay as unfortunately theirs always more lazy people looking to cheat there way at things.

for all you reading this with anger please read my first part where i outline a big caveat. If you fit that type of rider my comments are not meant to annoy you at all.

As for the other types............well i just wish they didn't bother quite honestly.
  • 1 0
 Now you can just e-arn your turns
  • 1 0
 @rabidmonkfish: I hear similar comments often.. and before I became an experienced eBike owner, I would have echoed.. after all.. it makes sense that folks would use the motor as a crutch.. instead of earning the speed and endurance through the gruel of conditioning.. it’s been about 15 months since I got my Kona Remote 160.. and after the initial excitement stage; where I neglected my Slash.. I settled into riding the weee-bike about every 3rd or forth ride.. I can say it has made me a better rider (faster/smoother/ and railing corners -once I discovered the amazing super-powers of Michelin E-wild tires after tearing several double-down beads) - and seems to have improved my fitness.. while the significant amount of assist turns me into a super-man version of myself when compared to other non-assisted riders.. I mostly ride the ebike alone; making it almost like a different activity. Where boosting air of features and slamming corners happens while going down and up. Super fun to pick the most intimidating rocky/rooty steep roller to ride up! (Working every bit ofweight shifting finesse to find traction while keeping the front wheel high enough to get over the obstacles, yet low enough to keep from toppling ) Today, I rode 15 miles of trail with an 18” chainsaw in my pack.. stopping several times to cut out the significant trail blockages discovered on yesterday’s non-assisted ride ..thanks to the e-assist; the 25 lb pack was bearable/and ride was fun! .. (snow had kept us off the trails for the past two weeks) I still love the Slash more. It feels so light..and flickable.. especially after coming off the ebike.. it took a while for the ebike to find the right place in my riding, but now that it has; I think the Remote 160 has made me appreciate/enjoy my Slash even more.
  • 1 0
 I think Dunlop can help you with your tire issues. Puke
  • 1 0
 E bikes are fun. Thank you Mike for the review.
  • 1 0
 E010, Electrified Only Idiot Outside
  • 1 1
 Scam drivetrain with Shimano cranks.....lol
  • 3 2
 Looks like a UPS Truck
  • 1 0
 No BEAST MODE!!
  • 2 2
 ok moped for 11k but where is blinkers and register shield??
  • 2 2
 Vrooooom vroooom
  • 6 7
 that is a motorcycle, no a bike
  • 2 3
 And comes with a RS....
  • 1 0
 Their new frame design doesn’t offer very many shock choices. Huge miss if you ask me. Specialized went a similar route in moving shock location but they managed to basically let you pick whatever shock you want.
  • 1 4
 Who is asking for these types of e-bikes? Thought more people would take inspiration from the levo sl.
  • 1 0
 Valid question, not sure why you are getting down-voted?..
I have a levo sl and it is fantastic, the perfect crossover between unpowered bikes and full power ebikes, You can ride with either.
That said, the decision of which ebike to buy was really tough, and if I was in the market again (for an ebike) I would seriously be considering a longer travel full power bike like this. Not at this price though...
Most of my riding mates have moved over to full power ebikes and have consistently said that with all that power on tap, you may as well have more travel for smashing burlier tracks and downhill runs.
The light weight half power concept of the levo sl makes huge sense if you are mainly riding trail centres, particularly with both powered and unpowered friends. It feels like a ‘normal’ bike and is easy to ride without the motor if necessary. But being able to ride any downhill trail and have a self contained uplift in one beefy bike with burlier forks and shock is a good concept.
The canyon Torque On is killer value at £5k with a spare battery thrown in and the Vitus e-Sommet is also a fantastic spec for the money, both have the same long travel full power layout as the bullit shown above but at a more reasonable price point
  • 7 8
 moped go brrr
  • 1 4
 Shimano motor. SRAM brakes. Hmmm.
  • 6 0
 SRAM doesn't make a motor, so I wouldn't say that's too surprising.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: I wouldn't say no to riding one. Just seems like a lot of mismatched components tip to tail.
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: Shimano does make brakes however.
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