As fun as it was to zip up a fire road and then dive into a steep descent over and over (and over) again aboard the Repeater, my favorite rides were more exploratory in nature, seeing where little-used moto trails took me, and getting into areas that were a little further off the beaten path. The Repeater's geometry works well for both styles of rides – it's slack enough to get rowdy, but it's not so slack that it feels sluggish on more rolling terrain.
That being said, it does feel more alive at higher speeds versus picking and poking down a technical line. Those higher speeds make it easier to really lean into the turns, and to take advantage of all the traction that comes from the extra weight of the motor around the bottom bracket area. In addition, the suspension is well supported, which helps keep it from getting bogged down on really chopped up sections of trail. I could have run a little more sag to make it feel even plusher, but the setup I ended up with delivered plenty of grip without feeling too mushy on smoother sections of trail.
Jumping a 50-pound e-bike comes with a little bit of a learning curve – it can take a few runs to get used to how the extra heft handles in the air, especially if you're coming from a lighter, non-motorized bike. It's a little trickier to find the balance between going too far and not going far enough, but the good news is that throughout it all I didn't experience any harsh bottom outs – the Float X2 does a great job of dealing with bigger hits.
It's been mentioned countless times before, but the Shimano EP8 motor does make a rattling noise on rougher decents. How noticeable the rattle is seems to depend in part to the frame design – some frames are quieter than others. I'd place the Repeater in the middle of the road – the noise is there, but it wasn't that distracting. I'd still like it eliminated altogether, especially since it's not like we're talking about inexpensive bikes here. How Does It Compare?
I had the Repeater on hand at the same time I was testing the new Santa Cruz Heckler, so a comparison between the two seems apt. When it comes to geometry, the Repeater has 10mm more rear travel, and a half-degree slacker head angle. The reach on the Repeater is a little longer, at 480mm vs. 472mm, but not by much. I'd place both bikes in the same category when it comes to intended usage, although the Repeater has a better spec for more aggressive riding thanks to the Fox 38 or Zeb fork depending on the spec, burlier tires, and a longer dropper post.
Price is always a sticking point when it comes to e-bikes, especially ones with carbon frames - these things are damn expensive, and the Repeater is no exception. The GX AXS version of the Heckler is the same as the Repeater at $10,999 USD, but there are a few differences. The Heckler gets a Performance Elite Fox 36, while the Repeater has Factory level suspension. The Heckler has Code R brakes, compared to the Magura MT7's. There's also the aforementioned difference in tires, but it's the battery capacity difference that really separates them - the Heckler has a 720 Wh battery, versus the Repeater's 630 Wh.
What does all that mean out on the trail? Well, I was able to get in more miles before running out of juice on the Heckler. The range on the Repeater is still decent, but I wouldn't have said 'no' to an even larger battery. As far as the suspension feel goes, both bikes have great traction, although I'd give the nod to the Heckler when it comes to small bump sensitivity. The mixed-wheel Heckler was a little easier to handle in tighter, more awkward climbs, while the Repeater needed more room to really come alive. Out of the box, I'd say the Repeater is going to be a better fit for aggressive riders who tend to ride at higher speeds, while the Heckler is a little more of an all-rounder, and would likely need a couple component swaps for someone who was more focused on all-out descending performance.
Congrats on freeing up 3mb
Your bike is now a consumer electronic, with life span and replacement costs to match. Maybe this is why eBikes are a cash cow? As a company you can probably count on much shorter product purchase cycles as electric components fail or are quickly made obsolete?
Early adopters are only a good thing if they also hold the new thing accountable. If they set a precedent where e-bikes are overpriced and not reliable, then it just adds another chunk of time to the development of these products ever becoming a real consideration for the middle class and/or majority of riders/buyers.
Also I was referencing more simple things like electronic windows vs manual ones. If the trend continues in this direction, you can end up with a bike that damn near feels like a car service with electronic shifting, dropper, suspension, and drivetrain motor. Which to me is only a bad thing if it has horrible reliability, service, and warranty surrounding it.
And that's what I was referencing because my friend was talking about his Commencal e-bike and how it had an outright motor failure and he waited basically months to get his bike back. And... There was some f*ckery with the warranty where they were trying to charge him and I think he just talked them out of it because it was BS. I'd have to see him again to get the details. But I'd be f*ckin... Up a wall if I had a motor failure in under 2 years and then the company tried to play games with the warranty being close to expiration and what not. After all that money invested. Yikess
Some batteries go forever and some need replacing in relatively short order. One of my EV's has 96,000mi on it and is still going strong with no noticeable battery degradation year after year. There are scatterplots of this stuff you can find online. You can also find a lot of data on "true cost to own". EV's have been around for awhile now. We've got plenty of data. Maintenance costs of an ICE car are, on average, far higher than an EV over the long run. And the EV is better for the environment, all factors considered, after about 35,000 miles and on.
Now this doesn't mean that a manufacturer can't try and make your life very difficult if you don't play ball, but you as the consumer can fight them, and will more than likely win as the law is very clear when it comes to warranties.
I file warranty claims as part of my job, and most manufacturers are very happy to make sure the customer is made whole. There are some that are absolutely terrible about it, like Honda (power equipment) and Kawasaki engines, but most are very good.
- eats up headset bearings because of water ingress
- cables wear fork shafts
- crowded headset are and need to put everything together each time makes fork service and fork installation way harder
- makes it impossible to use other headsets
- makes it harder to use other stems (often)
- will maybe make a whole bike useless one day once spares for the one headset that fits aren´t made anymore.
- ACROS, like Magura, likes to use plastics where metall would be the obvious and longer lasting material of choice
+ it looks great at the car park and the café stop and when recharging the bikes battery in town.
I personally dont own one, and dont plan on getting one, at least for the next 10 years.
But I don`t understand all the Hate.
None of you have a problem to go to a BikePark or even Shuttle with a Big Ass Truck.
How are eBikes bad?
With ebikes, all the natural terrain can be ridden 4 5 times as much resulting in more damage to the trails, therefore closing because the city will not allow it anymore…
Happend in our city
For riders themselves, I guess ebikes represent having it come too easy. Mountainbiking is usually a sport where you suffer. Whether that is up or/and down, you don't tend to have it easy. Ebikes literally raise your ability to do the fundamental aspect of riding - to pedal - to superhuman levels, and this for a lot of people doesn't sit that well. Yes, it has a lot of good causes - getting those less able to ride bikes out and about - but from one rider to another, it just looks like an unfair advantage.
Either way, they're here to stay so I guess everyone just has to get used to them.
Should I flog myself when I use a chairlift in order to introduce the required suffering?
They way I see it, if they make a ton of cash from these things, perhaps it’ll help put funds toward (keeping) making awesome non-eBikes. And they do make killer bikes. I don’t own one now, but I will again someday, and I have in the past.
I think the realistic view of this is that if you dont make an e-bike in the next 10 years you may struggle to even survive as Ebikes will begin to dominate the market.
Just saying that I have perspective now- it sucked at the time to me, but it didn’t affect the handling of the bike.
Just numbers. And going forward, I understand why bike companies make the decision that they do (not always, but sometimes.)
I imagined somehow you were irrationally anti boost-wheels ;-)
This seems to have slowed a little now, covid supply chains have taken the edge off constantly new standards at least.
In all seriousness, that stem is more offensive than the motor.
wait for it...
What ever you ride just be decent and have fun!
On the flip side lots of use ebikes to get our tools in to do maintenance
The amount of holes, ruts, and loose rubble on the trail since the advent of ebikes is unbelievable.
So the point is - our personal experience means nothing in the wider world, it’s just anecdotal rubbish.
Many of the complainers still shuttle or use lift services but I don't see many people arguing that that is "too easy"
Personally, they do offer a lot of potential to a lot of people but the original commenter asked why there was a lot of hate towards ebikes. I tried to answer concisely so it wasn't meant as a whine. Apologies, you seem more riled than I do about it.
Read my response completely. “ Absolutely I was! I’m calling myself out on it. I had just purchased a 2017 Patrol. Then SBG and Boost came out a month later, and my bike was all of the sudden “lame”.
Just saying that I have perspective now- it sucked at the time to me, but it didn’t affect the handling of the bike.
Just numbers. And going forward, I understand why bike companies make the decision that they do (not always, but sometimes.)”
I’m too concerned about long term return on investment but I’d get one in a heartbeat if i could hop a bike path to some trails or speed up a climb. Some of us have commitments and 45 minutes only to get up and back down before we have to give a kid a bath or make dinner. Hero suffering and earning turns is bullshit
I regularly climb ventoux and alp du zwift virtually just for fun, try to do it once a month at least just to see if I can get a better time. And working to climb up a hill on a bike has f*ck all to do with a job. Those types of work aren’t even remotely comparable unless you walk up hills for a living. I’ve never sat at a desk and said f*ck this excel formula and thrown my bike down or had to check my heart rate.
And fitness going up a hill isn’t the issue, nor is doing the “work” of climbing. It’s having the convenience that if my wife gave me the green light some day at 5pm to pop out the door and ride over to the trails an ebike would technically make it much easier and faster to do the loop
But I guess since I said e-bikes would let me speed up a climb, I am just a fat and lazy American with no work ethic.
Now I enjoy my ebike - it's brilliant. There is no sense of entitlement here, just riding, accessing new areas and opening up more descending with increasingly limited time.
My ebike is most definitely a mountain bike. Without question! It's not a scooter, definitely not Moto. It's weightier than your usual MTB, sure, but still great fun. I still end up shattered after a day in the saddle, I've just covered more ground and descended a LOT. I could be fitter but heck, I love so many aspects of life and I'm going to enjoy them all. You live once, why not.
Ride as you wish to ride. Don't expect others to feel the same as you and stop taking a childish, ridiculous moral high ground. You're an example of the saddest aspect of society in general - the online keyboard warrior movement - you.
Get out there and ride. Enjoy it. Leave others to their riding. If I annoy you on my ebike, then you seriously need to grow up.
People who like Ebikes will continue to buy and ride them, including me - I couldn't give a single shit what people say about their use so long as there are no land access issues to contend with, then its a legal argument and entirely separate.
As Jon Hall, Gwins mechanic said in the recent podcast - if you are anti e-bike its because you haven't tried one.
They sell because they are fun as shit you dullard.
Interesting that you get rid of ebikes you get rid of the problem.
You are talking complete and utter shite though, now the reason not to ride them is they will set on fire when you are on the trail and burn the whole place down? yea right - have a chat with people who make bbq's and fires first, eh?
Its interesting that if you get rid of people obsessed with a puritan view of the hobby that is mountainbiking that you get rid of the problem.
Puritanical? Not in the least. Just because technology allows for something does not make it better. My observation of ebike users (where I ride, here in Vancouver) are mostly those whom would not of ridden without the assistance of the motor, and certainly the large proportion (not all) are going down the smooth, groomed runs since without the constitution to go up they lack the practice and skill to go down. This is a regular occurrence. There is no purist of the sport. You ride, which means pedalling. That is what a bike was designed to do. Adding a motor makes it a motor bike. You seem to think the ability to ride is a right rather than a privilege, and privileges are earned. Strange no one complained about the up or how hard it was 20 years ago prior to the introduction of ebikes.
I have sent a couple of letters to both the province and municipality on the issue of fire risk but have not had a reply; but in your retort of batteries in phones, the same could be said. It only takes one incident and that will be it. One fire in a popular area (Squamish, North Van or anywhere in BC) will get all of us kicked out, not just bikers. Since a great preponderance of fires are human caused, the fact backcountry access is not limited yet bewilders me despite being an outdoorsman. And the evidence of a bike causing the fire will be obvious as much of the bike cannot burn.
Just as a logical progression, are you also lobbying to ban electric cars from the trail car parks, they surely exhibit the same fire risk, no?
And no, Ebikes aren’t motorbikes, no matter how much you say it, how many letters you write or how high your blood pressure goes obsessing about it. Ebikes are here to stay and your letters unsurprisingly will continue to be ignored.
After a ride just feel a little off with ebikes. Never had that buzz. Even performance wise. Just feel a little numb. I tried to like them but more often just sell and get another up to date FS. I think as long as the human engine is there and capable of big rides. I am sure when older (40s) may get on it to preserve the heart!
For me, having the Decoy is absolutely nothing to do with my fitness, age, health etc. It's purely to allow me to get more riding in when I have limited time during the week and for that it's absolutely superb.
All the ebike did was pedal for you, it's didn't magically make you ride longer.
"Worthwhile" is clearly a totally subjective term.
- carbon frame on an E-Bike
- headset that WILL eat dirt like hell
- small battery
- underpowered Shimano motor
- Shimano motor that is not serviceable
Pepperidge farm remembers...
Transition would rather grab the ebike cash than take care of people who have been waiting for Spur’s for ten months I guess.
Time to grow up, surely?
Transition probably ordered these e-bikes well over a year (or two) ago from the manufacturer, the e-bike wont be taking capacity from the Spur or delaying its manufacture - did you miss the memo that covid has caused lead times measured in years?
I am a patient boy.
I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait
My time, water down a drain
Me realizing damn everyone's ready to roll out:
Everybody's moving, moving, moving, moving
Please don't leave me to remain
My bros asking where I am at:
Sitting in the waiting room (ah)
Sitting in the waiting room (ah)
Sitting in the waiting room (ah)
Sitting in the waiting room (tell me why)
Because, they can't get up
Lol. I crack myself up. :-P
Shimano is more basic with their 12 speed stuff. Deore is all steel in bunches of pieces. SLX has aluminum 45/51 tooth. XT has two aluminum gears and XTR has 3. All use the new micro spline driver (that still notches fyi). Count the black (aluminum) gears in back and you know which level it is.
There’s just no argument that moto is more expensive to run compared to mtb/emtb.
If you’re going to sellout, at least get a few details right.
Definition of moped (Entry 1 of 2)
: a lightweight, low-powered motorbike that can be pedaled
Hows the warranty?
Too many friends have has spesh and orbeas fail.
Usually seat stays. And usually the bike mfg claims user crashed it.
They're decent frames I know (I've owned one myself), but I see the alloy frames as comparable to Nukeproof.
The asking price of £2.2k for an alloy Spire seems a bit "aspirational" and out of step with their market position in the US.
“SBG” is Transition’s approach to geometry. It has nothing to do with their suspension design (which they call “GiddyUp”).
But anyway, while I like their bikes, GiddyUp is a brand name for a four bar, and SBG is a brand name for well, a geometry. Maybe, IIRC, Transition may be among the 1st brands to bring back a shorter fork offset.
Any ep8 motored bike automatically goes into the I wouldn't own one category.
Underpowered, rattly, shit display.
Haha I've owned one, not again!
I know there are plenty of sub $5K eMTB's out there, which is a start.
You're not pro-ebike but you're right about this and it is worth mentioning.
That said, I still choose Shimano.
Note that ~5yrs ago, all ebikes were hideous offerings *except* for Specialized, and I credit them for raising the esthetics bar.
Dear @TransitionBikeCompany: Charge 10% less than the competition and get this to many riders. Brand abundance on the mountain is exceptional marketing.
Don’t have any issue with ebikes and it’s not really a surprise that Transition have now produced one, but as long as I can haul myself up those climbs under my own steam, I won’t be getting an ebike.
Like my dad used to say: I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.
Also me: No. No, they don't.
"OUR COMMITMENT TO OUR CUSTOMERS,Transition Bikes has always strived ....blablabla
They have nice bikes ,their clips are the best and nice to look at but the vil metal are doing damages on them and i am a follower from them since Dirtbag bikes.From there till today the rules changed $$$$$$
About the Repeater its everithing said back here .
If it is a Enduro bike like Patrol should take the 2 wheels back option with some flipchips or Cockchips....
.A Carbon option but also or first manufactured Allu frame, a bike ,for the rider and a bike for a Armani rider.
Maybe battery capacity its right .Not too heavy for the handling If someone wants more maybe with a booster or a diiferent bike Spur /Sentinel based .
But Primarily No Shimano motor should be in the bike .Sofware App uppdates shity problems ,bigger rattling noise than everything else -Shimano motor that is not serviceable,no parts available ,? Ñobody wants to assist and repair the motor
Shimano motors Should not be authorized to be on the maket ,every market.
And the bike manufactors who use shimano motor must be only because they are making money with shimano ,leading customers to have losses later after the warranty expired ,but then they have another bike to sell us and we have an expensive useless object .Shimano is not the only one but its the worst at the moment.
That kind of killed a lot of group rides (some are cool and just potter op climbs on Eco, but some apparently just can't get enough of that Turbo life) but on the ones I've still gone on there's been that "tension" between people on SL-style bikes and the full fat ones. Must suck to drop the better part of £10k on a bike then find you can't do the rides your friends are doing because they have bigger range.
Most e-bikers only ride in turbo. Shop I worked at did a quick diagnostic on every e bike we worked on that lets you see how much time was spent in each mode. Nearly all riders were >80% turbo. There’s was a single customer with >50% eco mode and the whole shop was freaking out for a day.
Like I said, some do just drop to Eco but now there are so many people here with eebs it's more common to just get eeb only group rides these days. Being the only regular bike rider in a group of ebike riders isn't a great feeling simply because you know you're limiting what people could be doing. The unfit thing is kind of similar I guess but it's on a different scale with eebs.
It sounds like our area isn't representative of the whole though, just in terms of the ratio of regular to ebikes out there, so my experience may not be that "normal".
One guy got himself a brand new YT Decoy with the 500 battery, and suddenly he was having to find shortcuts and ducking out of rides early, because he just couldn't coax the bike around compared to the rest of us with 700 batteries. As the odd one out it was a real problem for him and kinda ruins his enjoyment of the new bike. So much so that he sold it after a month and got a Mondraker.
I get that maybe this is an edge case, hence why I say "for me" the Transition doesn't work, and that's a shame.
Yes it is hard but its sooo much fun. Technical trails in turbo are awesome fun
Why'd you do an ebike ?!
I just ordered a Commencal one !
Nah that's cool, it's heavier but less expensive and about as well spec'd.
Who left Ibis, Guerrilla, Diamondback.
Are there any E-MTB's where the battery and/or motor is load bearing? Why are these things 50lbs?
There might be lighter batteries out there (I am sure there are, prob in orbit on satellites or on lunar rovers) but that would only make these bikes more expensive.
Next I wondered how many beers can fit in the downtube??
Not making an ebike in 2022 is leaving most of the money you could make on the table.
The people who spend actual money on actual retail price mountain bikes (not pro deals or bro deals or end of line or last year's model on sale) aren't on pinkbike making comments, they are buying e bikes. The numbers don't lie.
I do get gassed when I ride my eMTB or Motox hard, but I guess that doesn't count as a workout.
Regardless the flowing salty tears of the haters has brightened up my day tremendously.
@mikekazimer Does Pinkbike really not count?
If you want to make +50km rides with lot of elevation gain (or full day ride), a 720wh battery is not enough, or at best you start to get anxious as your battery is getting empty.
Also 720wh batteries are getting pretty big and can probably make it tough to fit in smaller sizes (I guess Norco couldn't place a 900wh battery without flipping the motor).
Really I don't get why there isn't more brands pushing the +-630wh battery + powerboost solution.
Motor brands could even think about it (no shit !) and make some sort of "powerboost clog" that would fit in the space between the wheel and downtube (not in the wheel travel of course).
Now... if you want to criticize the product they have offered here, thats a different story. I must say... if you are going to be late to the market, then you need to have learned from the early mistakes and dont make any new mistakes. The 29" rear wheel has already proven to be inferior to the 27.5 on e-bikes, and that cable routing is horrendous.
I’m just really f-ing disappointed in Transition.
Alot of people, including myself, were going to look into buying a Transition because the don‘t make E-Bikes. Now it‘s all gone to shit!
That headset, on the other hand, can f*ck right off.
That is literally one of the strangest, teenage fanboy level bullshit I have heard, grow the f*ck up.
Just need to to know what pronouns to use now when talking about the bike. Don’t want to upset it.