Review: RockShox's 2023 Lyrik Ultimate is Smooth, Silent, & Incredibly Comfortable

May 26, 2022
by Mike Kazimer  

RockShox rolled out their Flight Attendant electronic suspension system last fall, effectively providing a sneak peek of the new features that are now found on the new battery-free versions of the Lyrik, Pike, and Zeb.

Those pressure relief valves and the ButterCup vibration absorbers made it into the lineup, and there's also a brand new Charger 3 damper that uses a spring-backed IFP instead of the bladder-style damper that RockShox used for nearly a decade.

RockShox has been working to avoid having too much overlap between the different fork models in order to make it easier to choose the right option. That's why you won't see a 120mm Zeb, or a 190mm Pike – horses for courses as the saying goes.

RockShox Lyrik Ultimate Details

• Intended use: trail / enduro
• Travel: 140, 150, 160mm
• 27.5" or 29" options.
• 35mm stanchions
• Offset: 44m for 29", 37 or 44mm for 27.5"
• Air spring with volume spacers
• ButterCups vibration absorbers
• Pressure relief valves
• Colors: black, Heavy Meadow
• Weight:1980 grams (178mm steerer w/ starnut and axle)
• MSRP: $1,107 USD
rockshox.com
As it stands, the Pike comes with either 120, 130, or 140mm of travel, the Lyrik has 140, 150, or 160mm, and the Zeb goes from 160mm all the way up to a whopping 190mm of travel. I tested the 160mm, 29” version of the Lyrik Ultimate, which retails for $1,107 USD.


CHARGER 3 DAMPER

The new Charger 3 damper is significantly different from its predecessor due to the use of a spring-backed internal floating piston (IFP) to deal with the oil that's displaced when the fork is compressed. Previously, an expanding rubber bladder was employed to accomplish that task. Why the change? According to RockShox, the new design made it easier to make the low- and high-speed compression circuits as independent as possible.

Now, RockShox are far from the first company to go with this design – it's very common in the moto world, and Fox has been using a spring-backed IFP in their GRIP damper for years – but while the overall concept may be similar there are distinct differences between the inner workings of the dampers. One feature that RockShox included is a stepped 'silencer' piston head. The stepped shape affect the oil's flow, reducing turbulence and the amount of noise that the fork makes as it compresses or rebounds. I never found the previous Lyrik to be too noisy, but this new version is remarkably silent – in fact, I'd say it's the quietest fork I've ever ridden.

The green is the LSC oil pathway and the blue is the HSC oil pathway.
As far as adjustments go, the Charger 3 damper has 15 clicks of low-speed compression adjustment, 5 clicks of high-speed compression, and 18 clicks of rebound adjustment. The concept of independent high- and low-speed compression adjustments gets tossed around a lot, but that's not always entirely true – at a certain point the the low-speed compression adjustment starts affecting the high-speed compression damping and vice versa.

However, according to RockShox, they've come incredibly close to having truly independent adjustments – on a dyno chart there's no change at all to the low-speed compression damping when the high-speed compression dial is fully closed, and there's less than a 5% difference in the high-speed compression damping when the low-speed dial is fully closed. In other words, riders should be able to turn those knobs to their hearts' content without worrying about one influencing the other.


MMM, BUTTERCUPS

ButterCups are one of those features that make so much sense it's surprising we haven't seen them used in the mountain bike world before. Found in the Ultimate level forks, they're small rubber pucks that sit at the bottom of the air spring and damper shafts, where they act as the first line of defense against high frequency vibrations (RockShox says they reduce those vibrations by 20% compared to a fork without them).

The rubber pucks can wear over time, which is why it's recommended that they're replaced as part of a 200-hour service. It's also possible to run just one Buttercup and get at least some of the vibration damping benefits – that scenario would occur if a rider upgraded just the air spring or damper in their 2023 fork that wasn't already equipped with them.

AIR SPRING

The Debonair spring has been tweaked yet again, and the position dimple in the stanchion that allows the positive and negative chambers to equalize has been changed. As with the previous Lyrik, changing the amount of end-stroke ramp up is as easy as unthreading the air side top cap (once it's deflated, of course) and then screwing on one or more plastic volume spacers.


NEW CHASSIS, NOW WITH PRESSURE RELIEF VALVES

If you've ever slid a zip tie behind the dust seal of a fork you're probably familiar with how much air can end up in the lowers over time. That trapped air can affect the fork's performance, making it difficult to get full travel. With the pressure relief valves that's no longer an issue, and an occasional push of the buttons lets any trapped air escape. Again, it's not a brand new concept in the mountain bike world – Fox, Manitou, and others adopted it earlier, but it does come in handy, especially if you're doing a bunch of bike park laps or riding somewhere with big elevation changes.

The fork lowers were also re-shaped in order to increase the amount of torsional stiffness. Personally, I didn't find the previous version to be lacking in that department, but the new version is claimed to be 20% stiffer.

The Ultimate models have longer lower bushings than the Select and Select+ models in order to reduce friction during big impacts and G-outs. Part of me thinks it's not fair that there's a difference in bushings between the highest and lowest end models, but I guess there need to be some features that separate one from the other, and the promise of improved performance and lower friction on the fanciest model is a strong selling point.


ON THE TRAIL

RockShox recommends 75 psi for my 160lb weight, which ended up being a good starting point. I ended up going down a small amount, settling at 73 psi. That gave me 28mm, or 17% sag. I typically don't measure fork sag during setup – I prefer to go by feel, and then adjust as needed depending on the fork's behavior on the trail. I ran a grand total of zero Bottomless Tokens, and didn't feel the need to add any over the course of the test period.

I started the test period with day of bracketing on the same loop, trying out each of the compression settings in order to feel the differences. The clicks are well defined, and I found the entire range to be usable, even if it didn't match my preferences. By that I mean I could close the low speed compression and high speed compression all the way and still make it down the trail without fearing for my safety, or having my hands blow off the bars.

My happy place ended up being smack dab in the middle for both the high- and low-speed adjustments, which is how RockShox intended it. When trail conditions were loose and slippery I'd back off the low-speed by two clicks, and for firmer trails, like those found in the Whistler Bike Park, I'd increase the low-speed compression by two clicks. Those changes made enough of a difference to be noticeable without dramatically altering the fork's manners.

Speaking of manners, the new Lyrik is incredibly well composed. I mentioned before how quiet it is – that's not directly related to performance, but it is very satisfying to be rocketing down the trail and only hearing the sound of your tires rather than oil slurping and sloshing around with every impact. There's more going on than the sound of silence, though; the Lyrik is also a very, very comfortable fork.

That trait became crystal clear during my time in the Whistler Bike Park. It's still early season, so the brake bumps haven't reached their full potential yet, but there were still more than enough repeated high-speed impacts to really get a feel for the Lyrik's response. Those fast chattery hits are where the Lyrik really shines, and that was the key difference between it and the Fox 36 that I did back-to-back laps with – the 36 wasn't able to take the edge off the choppy sections of trail in the same way that the Lyrik did. I'd still put the EXT Era at the top of my chart when it comes to initial sensitivity, but that fork is almost twice the price of the Lyrik, so it's not exactly the most even comparison.

I was able to use all of the travel when warranted, but I never experienced any harsh bottom outs, and that's without any volume spacers installed. As far as stiffness goes, I didn't find the previous Lyrik to be lacking in that department, and that holds true with this new version. We've seen a wave of 38mm stanchioned forks hit the market over the last couple of seasons, but for the vast majority of riders I'd say that the stiffness of a Lyrik (or a 36 for that matter) is more than adequate. I rode though compressions as hard as I could, landed deep off plenty of jumps, and rode all sorts of chunky trails with quick direction changes, and not once did I think "If only my fork was stiffer..." Granted, I'm no Clydesdale, but I'm willing to bet that the Lyrik's stiffness is going to hit the sweet spot for a wide range of riders.

DURABILITY

I've put a solid two months of riding in on the Lyrik so far. That's not enough time to comment on long-term durability, but it's 100% leak and creak free, and there's no bushing play to speak of - it's still operating just as smoothly as the day it as installed. I'll update this review if anything changes.



HOW DOES IT COMPARE? ROCKSHOX LYRIK ULTIMATE VS FOX 36 FACTORY

The Fox 36 is the Lyrik's most obvious competitor – RockShox and Fox are the most commonly spec'd brands these days, so it's worth taking a moment to pit the new Lyrik vs the 36.

WEIGHT

On my scale the Lyrik Ultimate weighed 70 grams less than the Fox 36, at 1980 grams vs 2050 (both forks had a 178mm steerer with a star nut and a bolt on axle installed). That's barely a drop in the bucket, but if you save 70 grams here and 70 grams there eventually all that fat trimming can make a difference, at least if you're the type of rider that cares about the numbers on the scale. It's worth noting that the 2023 Fox 36 has a different steerer and crown that's a claimed 20 grams lighter, which makes the weight difference between the two forks even less of a consideration.

PRICE

This point goes to the Lyrik, but just barely. Neither fork is going to be the way to go for the bargain shopper - the MSRP of the 36 is $1139 USD, while the Lyrik is priced $32 less at $1,107 USD.

PERFORMANCE

Before I go any further, I should stress that the 36 is an excellent fork. It has more adjustments than the Lyrik thanks to the ability to tweak the amount of high-speed rebound, and it does a great job of balancing off-the-top suppleness with a very supportive mid-stroke – there's a little more of a platform deeper in the travel compared to the Lyrik.

However, this time around the Lyrik gets my vote as the overall winner thanks to how well it minimizes the amount of trail feedback while still providing a reliable platform to push into. The fact that it also happens to be dead silent is the cherry on top. Those back-to-back laps in the bike park made the difference between the two forks strikingly apparent, and if I had a long day of racing or riding ahead of my I'd pick the Lyrik due to its comfortable composure. On the 36, I tend to run my high- and low-speed compression settings closer to the fully open position than I did on the Lyrik; I found the Lyrik to offer a better range of possible settings than the 36, at least in the compression department.




Pros

+ Extremely quiet
+ Very comfortable, especially on choppy sections of trail
+ Effective, usable range of damping adjustments

Cons

- Only the Ultimate version has ButterCups and longer bushings.




Pinkbike's Take

bigquotesThe previous Lyrik didn't leave much to be desired, but the enhancements the 2023 version receives take it to the next level. It's an ideal fork for a wide range of bikes, everything from those shorter travel, aggressive trail machines all the way up to bikes that straddle the line between enduro and all-mountain. With plenty of adjustability and smooth, silent performance the new Lyrik is going to be hard to beat. Mike Kazimer



342 Comments

  • 292 10
 Will there be a Rockshox Super Grand Supreme Splendid Opulent Deluxe Superlative Upmost Ultimate Optimum Magnificent Palatial EVO version?
  • 72 22
 For anyone else who has no idea what the heck palatial means:

pa·la·tial

/pəˈlāSHəl/

adjective

resembling a palace in being spacious and splendid.
  • 29 1
 I won't settle for nothing less
  • 16 0
 Splendid, Really appreciate that one. I might get a decal made up that just says Splendid in BlackBox font. Friggin Splendid!
  • 12 1
 I'm holding out for ...EVO+
  • 20 3
 @danielfloyd:
That's how I define my gentleman's sausage.
  • 27 4
 Smooth, Silent, & Incredibly Comfortable….much like my morning dump.
  • 2 1
 You'll need a special bike to put that. I advise an aluminium frame nukeproof- Mega AF or Giga AF
  • 1 0
 @brassinne: i spatout my monster munch laughing
  • 6 0
 didnt someone on the internet say yesterday lyriks were now the rockshox indy of the fork world and only zebs and 38s were important
  • 1 0
 You've forgot the mandatory 'Plus'
  • 2 1
 OH DUDE STOP THIS I just spat out my grass fed kombucha all over my Macbook Pro. CLASSSIC AS PAL
  • 1 0
 @ribena1234 Wait, are we talking about suspension here or some warlord character from the latest playstation fantasy game?
  • 1 0
 @KK11: I thing to be envious about.
  • 3 0
 @Ben-76: I believe RS sees these two things as one and the same
  • 3 0
 @ullsen: Evo pro
  • 1 1
 @carlwheezer69: I must be misunderstanding how kombucha works lol
  • 2 0
 Yes. Limited, exclusive run of 1.000.000 (One Million) units. ALthough there could be more if demand is there.
  • 1 0
 @brassinne:

Mine is down country.

Well sounds similar
  • 3 0
 @c-radicallis: you need a double negatve air chamber!!
  • 1 0
 Yes, it slots in right above the supercalifragilisticexpialidocious version
  • 1 0
 @ribena1234....best comment...made me laugh...thanks..imagine the decal length
  • 97 7
 It seems you a word in the title.
  • 49 0
 I see you did here
  • 20 2
 And it was on that day of days, after long last, after all that had happened, that Kaz himself.
  • 2 2
 Rock

@ribena1234: wait for it

@eugenux: no

@mikekazimer: wouldn't your 36 be more comfortable if the hsc damping were closer to closed?
  • 3 1
 @ceecee: closed increases the amount of damping, which decreases the response to input and would transmit more through the front end and into the arms
  • 1 3
 @tkrug: hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360042329633-Mezzer-Pro-Set-up-Guide

'Arm fatigue is typically a result of excess hi-speed. Reduce hi-speed for a more compliant ride.'

Decreased response to input....
  • 1 0
 No suspension manufacturer is going to tell me how high speed compression damping works!
  • 1 0
 @ceecee: no it says decrease the dial, decreasing damping. I can be wrong but I don’t think I am - turning the dial to minus opens the oil circuit decreasing damping
  • 1 1
 @tkrug: closed is 0 is maximum damping of input is maximum comfort but minimum sensitivity. Downhill tuning is closer to 0. For fast flat dry sweeping corners, i.e. trail, one opens the damping circuit because the fork doesn't have to deal with inputs which would otherwise be jarring, and tracks better in kitty litter
  • 77 3
 now, if we could, pretty please, have the 170 and 180mm lyriks back?
  • 61 0
 This. At least 170mm. As a pretty light guy I’d love to run a lyrik instead of my 38 and save some weight on the front end.
  • 75 0
 @Longroadtonowhere: This isn't a sport for light people (anymore).
Go eat a burguer and ride your built-for-bison-to-avoid-warranty 38lbs trail bike.
  • 19 1
 Yeah I use a 180mm Lyrik on my Capra. It is easily stiff enough for a light guy like me. They used the 36 on freeride bikes for quiet some time. And the 36 is less stiff than a Lyrik
  • 18 2
 @bashhard: yes, 36 was used for a long time, then HAs got slacker. Even if you are a pretty light fellow, on a 63 HA with 170/180 travel a 38 or Zeb is going to run smoother as there is less stress and friction on the bushings. There is just a lot of strain happening on these slack long travel bikes. You don’t necessarily need to feel the flex of the fork to benefit from a stiffer fork. I bet if you had a chance to A/B test a 36 v 38 (or Lyrik v Zeb) back to back on rough terrain, the 38 would feel more plush on a newer slack bike. At 210lbs, it’s damn easy for me to tell the difference.
  • 3 0
 @bashhard: it was commonly used for years in ews... I do think we, the non pros, even if we weight a little more(like me), wouldn't have a problem riding it. (on a lyrik since 2017 until last year(different variants)) and, actually, I had a 140, or it was 150mm, lyrik... the old lyrik on my old spez pitch pro.
  • 31 0
 @eugenux: They even used a 160mm pike in the EWS for a few years. How did they even get down the hill?
  • 70 1
 @bashhard: They didn't. They all crashed, died, and were replaced with lizard-people doppelgangers hatched in a secret SRAM facility. Their sole purpose in life is to sell us bigger stanchions. Trust me, I've done my own research on this.
  • 5 0
 Yep I agree. Other riders in our household appreciate the lighter weight (and probable lower cost oem, on bikes) of a Lyrik. Especially when running a 155-165mm frame. This will only lead to full built bikes going up further in price. Frown

But oversized me likes that I am less likely to need to replace the fork on the next enduro bike I buy with RS.
  • 7 0
 I've just bought a 2022 Trek Slash with a 170 Lyrik, phew!
  • 2 0
 @bkm303: the truth has finally been revealed!
  • 1 0
 @bashhard: I had a 160mm pike on my old sanction 2.0 frame, with, horror, 26" wheels. I loved that fork.
  • 4 1
 @Longroadtonowhere: if only there were something 180mm with a dual adjustable spring that was only 50g heavier than new Lyrik
  • 4 0
 I'm just stoked 140mm is available now.
  • 9 1
 @ceecee: for sure isn't the zeb, which is over 320g heavier.
  • 8 0
 @Longroadtonowhere: +1(70) - I'm a lighter rider w/ a 31lb, 170mm backcountry bike, and that's the way I want to keep it for long days in the saddle. Zebs & 38s are great under heavier riders and for park & shuttle riding, but for everyone else, reality is the majority of our time on bikes is spent pedaling *uphill.*
  • 2 0
 @bkm303: "look into it"
  • 1 0
 @redrook: I'm sorry, your bike is worthless now
  • 19 0
 @hamncheez: Look, I'm not saying Big Stanchion is about to kick down my door... but if you don't hear from me tomorrow you know what happened.
  • 1 0
 If the stanchions are only marked with 140, 150 and 160mm sag markings (I have no idea if this is the case) I assume their intention is to never offer longer or shorter airspring lengths as an upgrade, which suck.
  • 8 0
 @Longroadtonowhere: Used Lyrik Ultimates are like $450 after the Zeb came out, possibly even lower now since it's now "last gen". Incredible bang for the buck right there. Hard to justify spending twice as much for this "current gen" fork. Still on my 2018 RC2 with a Charger 2.1 (after the stock Charger 2 started pissing oil about 2500mi/3 years in) Ran the fork at 160, 170, and 180 and it's been amazing other than the non-servicable damper.
  • 1 0
 I'm running a 170mm Lyrik - will the new damper fit?...
  • 4 0
 @ceecee: mezzer
  • 4 0
 Very much this. I am not that hard-core rider to make use of a Zeb, yet my frame is 170mm so I am now stuck to Zeb, because marketing sh#t
  • 1 0
 @IMeasureStuff: shame - RS have been really cool with backwards compatibility until now
  • 1 0
 @mm732: see above
  • 1 0
 @ceecee: exactly
  • 3 0
 @whambat: i am also 210lbs and run the Lyric on 180mm. I find no reason to buy a Zeb (apart from marketing).
  • 1 0
 @bkm303: well, if you've done you're own research, I should think nobody would suggest anything else.
  • 6 0
 There is still the Mezzer Pro as a Lighter combatant next to the ZEB and 38 which is nearly as Stiff but as light as a Lyrik and whose travel can be changed internally from 140-180mm via spacers.
  • 2 0
 @pioterski:

Na, probably IT IS possible to Use the old Air spring in the new fork or you could Use the Pipe from the old one and mount IT to the new Air Piston and sealhead
  • 1 0
 @eugenux: still running it. Great fork.
  • 2 0
 @bkm303: tinfoil around one thigh, then they can't tell you're a mountain biker. BSS (big stanchion syndicate, they can't read in brackets; facts). They'll assume your an XC snowboarder with "scootch leg" and move on......
  • 67 2
 Whoever made the fork silent at RockShox deserves a complimentary Ferrari.
  • 10 0
 With the caveat that he/she wouldn't be able to tell anyone about it.
  • 9 0
 @kinematix: Ahh yes. Also it's an electric Ferrari without a stereo to be completely silent.
  • 77 0
 Did you say Fezzari?
  • 8 12
flag vemegen (May 26, 2022 at 8:16) (Below Threshold)
 pretty sure he'd prefer a Tesla
  • 3 2
 @vemegen: I’d prefer a Ferrari. Drive it til the gas tank is empty, then sell it and buy a Tesla.
  • 63 3
 So electronic beep boops are cool but hydraulic squish is annoying. Progess.
  • 8 1
 I demo'd a bike with an old MRP fork at Outerbike years ago that was insanely loud...could not wait to return it.
  • 6 0
 Ext sounds are like music to my ears
  • 62 5
 I consider myself a decent rider, ride hard, tech and choppy trails, drop big things and I still do not get how do you all "experience" fork flex? What a hell are you doing to make it flex and even more - to feel the flex? Or are you all just being told by the marketing dept that your current fork flexes so you need to spend money on this new... 20% less flexy thing?
  • 6 1
 I only noticed it when I went from a 150mm Pike to a Lyrik, and noticed the front wouldn't get as easily deflected and felt more solid.
  • 8 0
 I rode a fox 32 once and I could feel it flex but other than that yeah idk not so much
  • 7 1
 I have the opposite experience coming from BMX and being close to 200 lbs. I've always thought mountain bikes (especially wheels, forks, and FS rear triangles) felt flexy as hell. The "tucking" effect when braking hard with my Pike is pretty obvious. I also notice longer travel forks loading up laterally in corners. This is less obvious but stands out more on tight steep corners.
  • 4 1
 I moved from an MRP Ribbon to a Manitou Mezzer. I find the biggest difference is the fact the Mezzer is tuned better for my riding and is more supportive, but the difference in chassis is noticeable. However, I only really thought about the flex in the MRP AFTER I moved to the Mezzer. Before, the only time I noticed flex was during fast, repeated, hard hits.

IMO a stiffer chassis is a good thing, but only if the spring/damper is also improved.
  • 3 0
 The 32SC on my XC bike definitely flexes, especially compared to the very stiff Lefty on my old bike. But...I kinda forgot about it until just now. I don't think I weigh enough at 145 pounds to notice it on my 36mm Ohlins, and I use up the 170mm of travel often enough.
  • 1 0
 Oh I can definitely feel it. I'm 210lbs geared up and I can feel a fox 32 try to touch the downtube when I brake hard. I don't feel it so much on drops and jumps because the entire bike is so stressed under those conditions, but braking or anywhere where the rear wheel gets light its obvious. Plowing rock gardens will do it to a lesser extent.
  • 4 6
 My last bike had a '19 160 mm 36 and it was a wet noodle. My friends could see the front load up hard into berms and look like the wheel was tucking under the bike, which is what it felt like it was doing. Had a 170 Lyrik before that which was better and now on a zeb which is unreal. 180 lbs and also can't ride without DD or SG tires and cush cores, and I still blow wheels up.
  • 3 0
 @4thflowkage: I had the exact same experience between those forks! The damping on the Mezzer is also significantly better.
  • 1 1
 Never noticed it until I looked for it. If I grab a ton of front brake I can even see my fox 40 flex under my 150lbs
  • 16 1
 @mariomtblt: Years(maybe a decade ago) i remember complaining about fork twist on my 32 when hard on the brakes, deflection from rocks etc...

I got downvoted to oblivion. Told I was a moron etc.....

Am I allowed to say I was right yet?
  • 1 2
 A few years ago I only owned a downhill bike marz 380ti and a hard tail with rock shox revelations and the difference was shocking when jumping between the two. I didn’t keep the revs for long. There’s still a noticeable difference between pikes, lyriks and zebs. While zebs are a massive improvement especially resisting twisting and binding it could still be stiffer fore and aft. Would rather have a lightweight triple clamp lyrik.
  • 1 0
 I’m a 200lb and my local trails aren’t crazy but I could definitely flex my 140mm Pike when cornering and braking. I recently put a Yari on the same bike, and it’s quite noticeably stiffer.
  • 3 1
 @jeremy3220: bmx background at it again!
  • 3 1
 @thenotoriousmic: A triple clamp Lyrik...also known as a Boxer!
  • 1 0
 I remember few years back when I took my friend's Yeti 575 for a quick run, I felt the flex in his Fox Float 32 150 mm compared to the Lyrik 160 mm that I had on my Specialized Enduro. But yeah, among all forks with 35 mm stanchions I can't feel any difference. I had a Pike 160 mm on my 2015 YT Capra and now I have a Lyrik 160 mm on my 2020 Norco Sight and I can't tell the difference, stiffness wise.
  • 1 1
 @rojo-1: Obviously not the same thing is it?
  • 1 2
 The fore and aft flex helps in terms of hand fatigue. The torsional flex is what you want less of. At 150lbs, I noticed it the flex on a 180mm Lyric on a heavy 55lb Ebike
  • 1 0
 My 32's are pretty flexy front to back. Laterally, I can't feel flex.
  • 1 0
 so you all (or most of you) saying 32 is flexy. I got that. But 35 ( RS Gold I have) and 36 ( Fox I used to have ) and my DH rig with 38mm ( Marzo Bomber 88Cool are pretty stiff. I weigh 200lbs and prob hitting 230 fully kitted so I should be freaking breaking those stanchions in half based on what I am reading here Big Grin But maybe I am just riding to slow ahahahaha

Also most riders I see in my city are bigger than me and ride 34mm and 36mm. I am still not convinced that flex pass 35mm is a serious issue
  • 2 0
 @ndefeo96: Fox 32? Is there no weight limit for this fork? And obviously NOT an enduro or even an All mountain fork... there is no reason to mention this fork. I also found flex on a rockshox Sector i had in the past but it was because i had put it on an NS Surge and drove some enduro trails with it. I found your argument irelevant. sorry
  • 2 0
 I'm 75kg/165lbs and ride reasonably hard (mid pack at big enduro events) though I'll totally admit I'm not a smasher! If I go looking for it, I could say I can feel some flex in my 170mm Lyrik, but it sure as hell doesn't bother me. I did fit torque caps to the bike when I got it, and I could feel the difference, but again, not life changing. I'll admit to not having a hench upper body, so I'd rather have some forgiveness in the front end to avoid fatigue
  • 42 4
 Everyone’s favorite, the rockshox ultimate!
  • 6 11
flag bikes00939393 (May 26, 2022 at 15:27) (Below Threshold)
 fox rules
  • 14 0
 @bikes00939393: O'doyle Rules
  • 1 0
 @hessiannate: The Billy Madison vibes!
  • 29 1
 Strange, I listened to a podcast with the founder of EXT Franco Fratton and he said they want dampers with a lot of turbulent flow…Noise is good
  • 53 3
 Noise isn’t necessarily a bad thing depending on what’s causing it, but if I can have a fork that performs very well and also happens to be silent that’s the one I’m going to pick.
  • 17 0
 I believe that this is because EXT designs their dampers to work in turbulent flow, which isn’t the common way of doing things. I believe only EXT and Ohlins do this in the mtb industry. Most applications are designed to operate under laminar flow to maintain consistent damping. Someone more knowledgeable correct me if I’m wrong?
  • 30 7
 @mikekazimer: I will take performance over noise reduction 10/10 times.
  • 4 0
 @norcorider-13: that was my understanding as well
  • 22 0
 @notsosikmik: Mike's point was the performance is top notch AND it's quiet.
  • 6 1
 I guess I'd rather a damper be silent than make noise but it's not a factor to me when considering a suspension purchase. I've used the noisiest dampers from EXT, Ohlins, Rockshox, Fox, etc and not once was the noise intrusive or an issue at all. The noisiest shock I ever used was Fox X2s with all the air in the damper fluid.
  • 2 0
 @norcorider-13: you mean, you're not an engineer??
  • 3 0
 @jamesbrant: no, just a mechanical engineering technologist haha
  • 3 0
 It's not like the Era is crazy loud, the Storias are a different storia. btw @mikekazimer, would you do new Lyrik or Era v2?
  • 28 0
 Just spend some time in the military (or any of the other professions with noise), end up with tinnitus, and you won't care about fork noise ever again!

I love my Ohlins, and all I ever hear is "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
  • 3 0
 @WalrusRider: Ah yes, the beautiful squishing noises that remind you and everyone around you that it's once again time for a rebuild. My X2 is currently on the shelf because I'm mildly miffed at how short of a time it was before it once again decided that the two wanted to meet again.
  • 1 1
 @mikekazimer: I can't stand the seal noise on Fox though. Sounds like there's so much friction. Fox and Rockshox perform almost identical nowadays in my opinion so noise and weight is the buying factor for me.
  • 7 1
 @norcorider-13: I'm going to be brave here and say that every damper will exhibit highly turbulent flow around the valves. You shoving oil through a tiny hole quite hard; it's bound to change speed and direction quite suddenly. I'd guess the coil-backed IFP has more to do with these being quiet. Full disclosure: I failed Thermofluid dynamics at uni.
  • 3 0
 Really weird that we get silent suspension but the newest ebike motors started to rattle while descending...
  • 1 0
 @norcorider-13: Turbulent noise isn't necessarily noisy in a fork, cavitation is. That is, oil evaporating due to local low pressure "pockets" and then condensing back when pressure (somewhere downstream) goes back up a little bit. Turbulent flow is actually more consistent than laminar flow, since it's a lot less sensitive to local things like surface roughness, tolerances, angles, etc. Laminar flow is only nice and ordered in the computer.
  • 28 0
 Will the SID ultimate get the new bushings, cause it needs it based on all of them going back for warranty...
  • 26 0
 So the Lyrik lost it's 170mm option and the Pike lost it's 150mm option.
  • 34 1
 Definitely going to be some people disappointed by that. Lots of smaller riders that do not benefit from or need to go up to the larger fork at those travels
  • 25 0
 Pike had a 160mm option before too.
  • 8 0
 I *just* got one of the last 150 mm Pikes and I'm so happy with it
  • 2 1
 @TylerP15: yes but Rockshox have to make money
  • 1 1
 I'm hoping someone will bring out an aftermarket Air shaft. I'm assuming that's all it needs.
  • 12 0
 @EdSawyer: there was a 180mm Lyrik too!
  • 3 0
 @TylerP15: I kinda get that they are separating the intentions and making it simpler to choose which one will be “best” but yeah… you’re right.
  • 11 0
 @bentopi: Part of me also thinks that segmenting the forks this way is motivated by the trends toward:

1) slacker head angles; and
2) more people consistently front casing jumps on machine built flow trails
3) all the while complaining about creaky CSUs
  • 3 0
 @bentopi: To be clear -- I fall under #1 and #2 in my list above
  • 6 0
 @tbgd: thinking the spacing between bushings will limit the abilities of aftermarket air springs. That’s quite a gap… thinking the lower bushing could become exposed.
  • 2 0
 @tbgd: BlueLiquidLabs makes air shaft extenders for RochShox products. Check it out.
  • 2 1
 @EdSawyer: only in 27.5 though
  • 6 0
 @browner: The lower travel ranges is because they are using wider spaced bushings in the Ultimate level forks and can't run a 170mm Lyrik (for example) and still have the lowers overlap the lower bushing properly. Aftermarket air shafts could probably bump travel up at least 10mm past their stated ranges on their NON ultimate models since they don't have the wider spaced bushings.
  • 1 0
 I’m more disappointed with the pike shrink than the lyrik. I had been planning on getting one on my next bike and bumping the travel up to 150mm.
  • 2 0
 @Afterschoolsports: Universal Cycles might still have 150 mm Pikes
  • 1 0
 I have a 150mm Pike on my trail bike, and a 170mm Lyrik on my enduro. Glad I built them when I did, though I don't have buttercups...
  • 2 4
 No. The Lyrik lost the 180mm option, and the Pike lost the 160mm option.
  • 1 0
 @pmhobson: me too and I payed just 650 euros!!! Ultimate and silver bling bling
  • 1 0
 @zsandstrom: Oliver is the man!
  • 1 0
 @zsandstrom: Or use a 20mm long M6 allen bolt and a 10mm piece of aluminum tubing
  • 2 0
 @Alexh1983: same! (I paid more in USD. But silver and bling: yes
  • 2 0
 @pmhobson: how dare you speak such harsh truths!
  • 1 0
 @pmhobson: 38 and ZEB are among the worst when it comes to csu creaking. Especially the 38.
  • 2 0
 @JohSch: What is the CSU?
  • 21 0
 So when does the 20mm axle make it's comeback?
Or it is as dead as 26er?
  • 17 1
 Couple more years but. Have to leave enough time for people to be on their second 29x15 wheelset before making the switch
  • 15 1
 Ahhhhh dammit! Don't give them ideas or they'll release something stupid like an 18mm axle.
  • 8 1
 meanwhile, RS wants us to screw weird parts to the hub flanges
  • 9 1
 that was a Fox move... RS kept the 20mm for as long as possible. A standard that is just wrong.... same weight with less clamping force.
  • 9 4
 @dfbland: It's SRAM, so...17.99mm axles
  • 11 1
 the fact sram had to come up with torque caps pretty much admits the abandonment of 20mm was a bad idea :/
  • 3 0
 @McMeta666: to their credit, it wasn't there fault we moved away...well, I still have mine on my 36.
  • 4 0
 I think the new Suntour durolux 38 has a 20mm option.
  • 2 2
 @dfbland: 17.99 mm
  • 2 0
 @ReformedRoadie: beat me to it
  • 19 0
 Im glad i bought a z1 coil so i can worry more about riding my bike than what new fork is marginally better than the last version.
  • 11 4
 Coil FTW. Forget this buttercup nonsense - not required if you don't have the stiction of an air spring.
  • 3 0
 Ditto. Fit and forget.
  • 15 0
 Does the damper sound really bother riders that much? I love it! It's like hearing a turbo wastegate but for bikes. Means the suspension is working and doing its job.
  • 12 0
 I can hear very distinct SLUUUURP in my Marzo Bomber 888 while those crazy 380ml of oil going around... and I enjoy it every time Big Grin
  • 4 0
 This, I love hearing the rebound on my 36 especially on Quick small Hits.. Tsshhtshtshtshshh
  • 14 0
 "Buttercup... act as the first line of defense against high frequency vibrations"
hmm,
wouldn't that huge tire under the fork at low psi act as first line of defense against high frequency vibrations?
  • 4 2
 Think poly bushings on a road car for improved NVH.
  • 13 0
 @haen: Polyurethane bushings are much worse for NVH. There is not a single car made, from $10000, to $2,000,000 that uses a urethane bushing in the suspension. Urethane is so cheap, that if was better (or even a substitute) it would be used.

Instead, manufacturers use teflon mesh impregnated rubber, dual density rubber bushings, preloaded rubber sandwich etc etc. But no urethane.
  • 15 2
 OK, wegen will that Coil shock ne available?
All All the adjusents from an EXT Storia für half the price.
The new e storia has Had adjustable HBO as Well and the Arma For years....so a Welcome feature
  • 49 1
 did you had a beer or two?
  • 23 0
 Hooked on phonics combined with conversational german-accented-English is... Awesome actually.
  • 8 0
 @kazwei: yesterday was national drinking holiday, so its very probable
  • 11 0
 the zeb was about 21% torsuanally stiffer than the previois lyric, with very little increased in fore-aft stiffness (2%). If this lyric is 18% stiffer torsiaonally than the previous lyric, then does the zeb give a 3% (ish) stiffness increase over the new lyric? Why would you buy a zeb?
  • 10 0
 Because now Lyrik is missing 170mm travel option
  • 2 0
 Great point.
  • 4 0
 @Alexanderskh: RS too embarrassed that Lyrik might outperform the Zeb?
  • 2 0
 Vital cites the new lyrik being 20% more torsionally stiff than the previous one, but the point remains the same. No report of the new zeb has said it is any stiffer. It doesn’t really make sense that now for longer travel applications you’re forced to have a zeb that’s at least 200 grams heavier and only marginally stiffer than the lyrik.
  • 1 0
 Maybe ZEB also has the 53% more bushing overlap what can increase torsional and maybe minor fore-aft stiffness? Just guessing.
  • 9 0
 Maybe its the geek in me but i love the damper noise. After changing the stack on my onxy its nice to see if there is a difference in the sounds

I also like knowing it’s working too.
  • 9 0
 Wait 2 months and they will have a revised update for all of it
  • 7 0
 2 month? Ahahaha... you won't be able to buy it for a 2 years prob so why worry Big Grin
  • 5 0
 Interesting they have moved to coil spring IFP for the premium Charger 3 Damper, the Charger Select RC damper has been a coil spring since 2019, they must have learnt some good things from that project.
  • 2 0
 Now they just need a coil in the spring side as well, eh?
  • 4 0
 I'm curious to see how the new damper will hold up to hard usage compared to the older bladder ones. Even with servicing every 6 months I had to replace a torn bladder about every other year. Any expectations on this front @mikekazimer?
  • 10 0
 I would hope that this would be a more durable design - in my experience metal springs tend to last longer than rubber parts. We’ll see.
  • 3 3
 I'd love to know the level of serviceability on this new one. Not buying any more RS products that lack ability to change out every seal.
  • 2 0
 @Eatsdirt, the service manual is here: www.sram.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/service-manuals/rockshox/front-suspension/2023-zeb-lyrik-pike-service-manual-english.pdf

I wouldn't say it's overly complicated - all the o-rings and seals are fairly easy to access.
  • 3 2
 @mikekazimer: 404 link Kaz, but that sounds promising.
  • 3 0
 @Eatsdirt, really? It's working for me. You can also find more here: www.sram.com/en/service/models/fs-lyrk-ult-d1
  • 1 0
 @nikwashere: Thanks. I don't see any instructions for replacing top cap control orings but maybe they're accessible. Such a stupid little issue that killed my charger 2.
  • 2 1
 It’s looks a lot like the rs1 style damper that’s been in the select level forks for the last couple of years now but only with high speed adjustment. Personally prefer the damper in the select forks over the charger damper so it’s promising.
  • 6 0
 What about when it's cold outside? How do those buttercups work? Like the old elastomers from the '90's? Because those didn't work very well.
  • 7 0
 You're right, they might get hard when the weather gets cold, but they'll still be softer than a fixed metal-metal connection like the previous model.
  • 1 0
 Dang, that's a smart question. Do the air chambers heat up very much once things start moving? I wonder if the rubber gets warm quickly enough to make that a non-issue? Any engineering types know?
  • 5 0
 I'm just really sad that they removed the red fork option. I can no longer color match my fork to the red coil spring of my shock... Life no longer makes sense! (Or can I fit a boxxer to my jeffsy?)
  • 5 1
 Seemingly the marketing team wrote this article a touch wrong. The Zeb does not have 53% longer bushings, only the pike and Lyrik do. The Zeb is the only backwards compatible model because most of the features exist in the Zeb that they tout as new. The new models are basically a pike/Lyrik with the lowers of a Zeb. The ifp is a grip damper that still doesn’t have the flexibility of the rebound circuits available theough ohlins, ext, push, and vorsprung. Still has no separation of clamping load and torsional force loading from suspension action at thru axle. I think there is just a zeb, a zeb mini and a zeb micro. Pick your zeb or get the select model and get what they had laying around from the last couple years for a new and improved price! Also those buttercups make me laugh, it’s called a bump stop and it’s nothing new just the material they use is poor in comparison to other materials long used in the motocross and extreme off-road industry.
  • 7 0
 I love my 2020 Lyrik a lot, this sounds amazing.
  • 8 3
 Removing 150/160mm and 170mm from the Pike and Lyrik is such a dumb move by RS.

They'll be back next year for sure (as a 'new extended' feature no doubt).
  • 6 1
 They did it because they increased the bushing overlap in the Ultimate models (for better performance). Having a longer air spring in those models means the uppers would no longer engage the lower bushing correctly.
  • 3 0
 No, they won't be back. Fox did similar when the 38 appeared, and they even have more steps with the StepCast 34 and 32. Each model overlaps another with one travel length, and covers two or three 10mm increments.

A 160 Pike isn't as floppy as the ol' 150 32, but if you need 160 then a Lyrik or 36 would be just plain better. Ask me how I know... (because I've had all of the above, 'cept the Lyrik)
  • 5 0
 @justinfoil: i ran 160 Pikes for years (still have 4 pairs in the garage); currently running 29er 170 Lyrik ultimates on two bikes; no desire to have Zebs.
  • 2 0
 @Chris-uk: like I said, I had a 150mm Fox 32, and beat the crap out of it and myself sending it down stupid shit. It "worked", but that doesn't mean there weren't/aren't better options. SRAM thinks forks that light shouldn't be that long anymore, and they wanted to limit SKUs and parts to keep in stock. Everyone seems ok with them telling us how little damping adjustment is needed, you can be ok with them telling you how much travel you should have with a given chassis.

Good thing you have 4 160mm pikes (why?), you should have parts to keep one alive for a long long time.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil:

Forgot. One pair is a 650b 170 coil converted Lyrik, not a Pike.

Why 4 old pairs? - the wife asks the same, lol. They're all 650b, from older builds, never got round to selling them. Also got a SC N4 languishing in there, lol. It's ridiculous.

One of the current 170 Lyriks has a Smashpot coil conversion, love them.
  • 5 1
 You know there isn't much more to say about forks, when the Pros section starts with: "silent operation".
Also: what if I like it loud? It's a Cons for me. Thanks for this indispensable feature.
  • 4 0
 Would love to hear what @seb-stott thinks of these new forks. He was one of the few reviewers that was willing to say the last Lyrik wasn't as good as the previous version, which I think is true.
  • 5 0
 Seb will be spending some time on the new RockShox suspension in the near future - you'll be able to read his findings later this summer. Believe me, if this Lyrik didn't feel better than the previous version I would have mentioned it.
  • 5 0
 @mikekazimer: Hope that didn't seem like a passive aggressive dig on you. I just remember reading a bunch of reviews (can't remember whose) that sounded like they were regurgitating the RS marketing materials. Looking forward to hearing Seb's take, especially since he loved that RC2 like I did.
  • 4 1
 Buttercups their bandaid for increased latency in damper response from loss of bladder. The whole crosstalk thing is a complete non issue. Why would you want that undamped PU in your susp anywah? $100 sponsored pros ride without them.
  • 1 0
 Who's going to be first to introduce a Manitou Mara style flexible IFP and claim it as revolutionary, Fox, Rockshox or Suntour.
  • 3 0
 I own no RS stuff at the moment but do like how they seem to keep things simple/easy with their products. I hope they do some updates to the shocks to give them a little more mid-stroke without a megneg.
  • 3 0
 They did.
  • 5 0
 Coil shock gives all the mid-stroke support you need.
  • 6 0
 Did you try 74psi?! You know, for science
  • 6 0
 These should go to 170mm still.
  • 4 0
 "smack dab in the middle for both the high- and low-speed adjustments, which is how RockShox intended it."

Just means you're perfectly average.
  • 3 0
 Did the dimple move up or down? How does that compare with the intentions of the C Spring update for the last iteration of DebonAir (gave the effect of moving the dimple down towards the top of the travel, IIRC)?
  • 3 0
 This
The only detail I actually care about and it's missing

Many sources claim the B version (2020) was better than the C.
  • 1 0
 @Konda: it was/is. I upgraded pikes with the c to the b right out of the box.
  • 5 3
 I wish people would separate "comfort" from "performance" in these reviews. A go-kart is not comfortable, but the performance is top notch. A cadillac is terrible in the corners, but the comfort is top notch. The two are not in any way the same thing, and a super comfortable fork often isn't a high performance fork.

People get confused by all the marketing spiel about "incredible small bump" and end up running their fork with super low pressure and tons of tokens, then have a fork that is terrible at anything but just going in a straight line. If this new fork is "incredibly comfortable" even with no tokens, I'd imagine it is nigh on impossible to get any life and responsiveness out of it without making it overly hard later in the travel.
  • 2 0
 I literally purchased a 2022 Pike Ultimate 150mm 3 days ago.... Not sure how I feel about this news!! (It hasn't arrived yet and I could still return it.)

I didn't see an availabilty date, does anyone know when they will be in stock?
  • 1 0
 June 3rd according to the lost co's website.
  • 5 0
 I love buttered stuff! ITS BUTTERCUP!
  • 5 0
 Oh butter nuts!!!
  • 4 0
 Only thing im interested is can I put a Charger 3 damper in a 2022 Lyric or Yari?
  • 1 0
 No. Only the the latest zeb i backwards compatible.
  • 2 0
 "The damper is retrofitable with any ZEB because that CSU hasn’t changed, but otherwise will only fit 2023 Pikes and Lyriks."

www.pinkbike.com/news/everything-you-need-to-know-about-rockshoxs-redesigned-2023-forks-and-shocks.html
  • 10 4
 @dolface: Classic RS move, change the thread pitch on the top cap to prevent backwards compatibility. New 2023 top cap thread pitch is 17% more threadular than the 2022 models. Here's a graph with no scale that proves it.
  • 1 0
 It seems that overlapping the travel options between models makes a lot of sense, I run 160 fox 36 atm, for the trails I ride I don't really need 38 stanchions, but I want to adjust my bb and hta by putting 170mm fork, so there is no debate within the brand, only between, even though I really want to go for RS as my next fork I might just stick with 36...
  • 1 0
 The longer bushings were greatly needed for the lyrik. The only reason my old lyrik isnt still in service is eventual bushing to stantion wear I'm pretty sure was due to heavy fore aft compression loading. Yes it stayed cleaned and serviced. That needs to come on all models.
  • 3 0
 Running a 180mm lyrik on a almost dh bike at 90 kilos riders weight. Sam hill was running a 180 lyrik most of the time. I think 170mm is fair for the lyrik.
  • 1 0
 Loving what they have done with the total re-working of the damper and air spring and would love a new Rockshox setup on a new bike, but when and what bikes are going to come to market with them?
At the moment it appears that fox have dominated the oem market.
Take a look at all the current new bikes for sale, and you're hard pushed to find anything that is RS equipped.
Being someone that does all of my own fork and shock full servicing, I love how easy it is to work on RS and really don't want to own fox as this means re-tooling. some of the tools to do a full service on Fox is astronomically expensive.
Don't get me wrong, Fox is a fantastic product, but RS is so user friendly.
  • 1 0
 "RockShox recommends 75 psi for my 160lb weight ... a good starting point. [...] I typically don't measure fork sag during setup – I prefer to go by feel, and then adjust as needed depending..."

Yeah, but you started at their recommended pressure and adjusted, which is literally the same process as starting at a recommended sag and adjusting. You think RockShox doesn't know pretty damn close to what the sag would be at that pressure for that weight on an average modern bike that suits a Lyrik? All they're doing is giving you a different number to start from, which is actually kinda weird considering they have sag indicators on the fork...
  • 4 0
 But has it been burnished?
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer is that a sneaky pic of the new Rockshoxs coil shock at the top of the page? It looks like the compression knob has the same simple graduation markings as the charger 3.
  • 1 0
 Ha I missed the other PB article on the new Rockshoxs line up.
  • 4 0
 Waiting for Specialized CEO to sue rockshox
  • 1 0
 Wait….I just noticed this Lyrik with ‘Buttercups Vibration Absorbers’ is fitted on a Specialized Stumpy, and Specialized has just launched new ‘butter-colored’ jerseys and pants….oh the irony
  • 2 2
 No offense to Kaz experience but such jobs should go to Matt Beer. From the review he did of that Commencal Supreme I really feel he is the guru in term of feelings, rides skills and ability to extract data from riding and transfer it to text in the actual PB staff. More Matt Beer articles please!
  • 2 0
 They have Seb Scott who goes above and beyond with testing on their staff too and we haven’t seen a ton of his work yet for Pinkbike.
  • 2 0
 I must say Matt's quickly become my favourite writer on PB because of the way he focuses on ride feel, but Mike's done a fine job here and told me everything I wanted to know about the new Lyrik.
  • 2 2
 "With the pressure relief valves that's no longer an issue, and an occasional push of the buttons lets any trapped air escape"

It took them so long to realize it. Yeah.....no more "air and oil spiting" when you service the lowers.

"RockShox Lyrik Ultimate Details

• Intended use: trail / enduro
• Travel: 140, 150, 160mm"

It was such an advantage to be able to use the lyric up to 180mm. They are pushing the customers to buy the Zeb just like what Fox did with the 38.....

I think that everyone who values his money will now think of other brands as well. Within the same price range....why not DVO? Canecreek? Formula? or even Marzochi?

The only part SRAM is good at is in the OEM market....

PS: i am not going to comment on the rear garbage they call shocks.
PS2: not a Fox guy...
  • 3 0
 Are there no sag measurements on the stanchions anymore?
  • 8 0
 This is the RockShox Ultimate Kaz Edition. No desire or need for sag markings.

"I typically don't measure fork sag during setup – I prefer to go by feel, and then adjust as needed depending on the fork's behavior on the trail."
  • 8 4
 @kinematix: SAG, in my opinion, is a bit over-hyped in fork set-up. I generally find that setting the fork to your recommended air pressure, putting every dial in the middle, then doing a little fiddling is a much better way to set up your fork than the sag method. You're going to tinker with it either way... I trust the engineers recommended PSI x bodyweight more than my eye trying to dial in SAG. Doesn't take nearly as much time either.
  • 5 0
 @cgreaseman: agreed. In my experience sag measurements on the fork aren't nearly as repeatable as on rear shock (more stiction, no leverage ratio, super sensitive to fore/aft weight distribution and getting on/off the bike, etc etc), so there can be a lot of noise in the readings. I don't see much value in measuring fork sag. I mostly just start with recommended pressure, look at where the o-ring is after big hits, and go by feel after that.
  • 3 0
 I agree with both Kaz and cgreaseman: setting static sag on a fork never works out well for me. Works better for a shock because we're sitting right on top of it, but the fork isn't anywhere near the center of mass. I start with a generally close setting, then go ride some laps with shock pump in hand and adjust everything based on how it actually rides.
  • 1 0
 @kinematix: I don’t even have marking on one of my Zeb’s. Do I have the limited Kaz edition?!?!
  • 3 0
 Are the buttercups just an elastomer-air hybrid fork technology?
  • 3 0
 really just more of a rubber grommet mount, sort of like having a rubber mount where a car shock mounts to the body. Isolation purposes really.
  • 2 0
 In a sense yes. But only for the first 3mm of travel.
  • 2 0
 yes.
  • 1 3
 If you're interested in learning more about the technology and development behind ButterCups, check out the "Learn" tab on RockShox.com - we do a deeper dive into how they work, including animations to show it. There's also an article under the same tab explaining how Charger 3's independent HSC and LSC work as well.

Check it out here: www.sram.com/en/rockshox/rockshox-technology
  • 3 0
 So Rockshox doesn't think anyone needs high speed rebound?
  • 4 1
 I miss the red Lyriks, ngl. These sound great though.
  • 2 0
 I agree. I actually wish they’d just make red their heritage color and offer all Ultimate level suspension in either black or red.
  • 2 0
 Is the Charger 3.0 available to buy separately? Only brought some rockshock Zebs 2 months ago….
  • 1 0
 Appears that the charger 3 will fit in to the older zebs
  • 8 0
 Only for people that know the difference between bought and brought!
  • 4 1
 spring backed IFP, 2013 Marzocchi tech
  • 2 0
 I am powerless when it comes to spending money on new parts. Damn you marketing wizards
  • 2 0
 So it sounds like neither the new airspring or damper assembly is reverse compatible with older chassis?
  • 1 0
 Only the Zeb is backwards compatible
  • 3 0
 bummer on lack of 150 for pikes.
  • 3 0
 Dropping some haribos into my fox 39
  • 1 0
 I'm interested to know how many people are buying new 27.5 forks. Better to have a 29 and more mud clearance no? The resale value is higher on a 29.
  • 1 0
 Nah I think people are still buying 27.5 lyrics. But I don't know about Zeb's. The Zeb is kinda marketed as a long travel 29 fork.
  • 3 1
 More people are still riding 27.5 fir now anyway. Why wouldn’t they sell 27.5 forks?
  • 2 0
 @thenotoriousmic: the Whistler stats showed that didn't they - I was surprised. I'm sure some people still want to buy them but it restricts you to a smaller wheel only. I'd rather have the choice of running both sizes (or plus size if that's your thing). Each to their own though.
  • 1 0
 Surprisingly, I'm actually not interested. I'm sure the new Lyrik is the great and all that. But my old fork is fine and I really, honestly don't feel like I need an upgrade.
  • 1 0
 Ok, son where are my aftermarket buttercups for the older pikes!? ... I'm not blowing 1100 for a fork (what I keep telling the wife)
  • 2 0
 sneak peek*
I had to do it, sorry...
  • 4 6
 Is a buttercup just a chunk of rubber at the bottom of the fork leg? If so I would say Marzocchi's huge bottom out bumper on the old RC3 coil forks precedes the buttercup, by a decade or more. Although it wasn't advertised as a vibration dampening device, the fact that it's 5-10X larger than a buyer cup would make me believe it has similar benefits, at least in the spring leg, the only leg it was in.
  • 6 0
 The second sentence under the heading "MMM, BUTTERCUP" explains what they are
  • 1 0
 I think that is slightly different. If I'm understanding correctly the buttercup isolates the connection between the damper/airshaft and the lowers with a rubber 'cup'. In other forks this is a direct metal on metal connection.
  • 2 0
 Yes and no. The Buttercups seperate the damper and air spring shafts from input.

The bottom out bumper in other forks was just that...a bottom out bumper. If you locked out the fork, or ran too stiff of a spring, you'd feel every little trail imperfection.

The Buttercups isolate the "active" parts of the fork from the trail.
  • 2 0
 It is quite different. The Buttercups are inline with the air and damper shafts - the first line of defense off the top of the travel (to mitigate high frequency trail chatter), not full bottom out as you mentioned.
  • 1 0
 It's basically like the bushings that mount your car suspension / differential / whatever to your chassis. Absorbs high frequency / low amplitude chatter (road noise). It's *always* the point of connection between the lowers and shaft, not just during a bottom-out event.
  • 3 2
 At their very core, you could say ButterCups are a rubber mount. There is, of course, more to ButterCups than just that. If you're interested in learning more about the technology, testing, and development behind ButterCups, check out the "Learn" tab on RockShox.com - we do a deeper dive into how they work, including animations to show it. There's also an article under the same tab explaining how Charger 3's independent HSC and LSC work as well.

Check it out here: www.sram.com/en/rockshox/rockshox-technology
  • 2 0
 Peanut Buttercups are good!
  • 1 0
 Does this mean they aren't going to make 170mm air springs of the new design?
  • 2 0
 they removed the sag markers
  • 6 5
 I'm just seeing a perfect review...from a company that has an ad plastered all over their main page Smile
  • 2 0
 Lost me at 160mm, Zeb it is!
  • 1 1
 Cest la Vie, Boxxer red. Hello, Cabbage Green. What? Im sorry, that color is awful, so bad they didnt even give the press that color. Lucky they have good ol black. :-)
  • 2 0
 Offer a lighter tuned version…Princess Buttercup
  • 1 1
 Is the Charger 3 backwards compatible with the prior Lyrik Ultimate? It sounds like Buttercups is not, but what about the damper itself?
  • 4 2
 Still rooting for DVO!!!!!
  • 2 4
 “If you've ever slid a zip tie behind the dust seal of a fork”

Was this ever a thing? In +20 years of mountain biking I’ve never done it nor have I seen anyone else do it. I’d never even heard of doing such a thing until Fox added their equalisation valves. I smell 5hite.
  • 5 0
 I've done it lots of times - if you currently have a fork without equalization valves give it a try and I bet you'll notice some trapped air being released.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: do you cycle the air chamber whilst the zip tie is inserted? I feel like my Zebs feel stiffer than they did before my service but with less air pressure and less compression. I want to try this method to try and alleviate any trapped air
  • 2 0
 1200 dollar fork does fork things well.
  • 1 0
 until next season
  • 2 0
 Buttercups?... isnt that the tires job?....
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer do you know if the 140mm can be converted to 150 and vice versa?
  • 1 0
 I'm sure it's very lovely. However, the price of these things now is ridiculous. Looks like £500 to me on a good day.
  • 1 0
 Now...which of these parts can be swapped inside a Yari to make it better Big Grin ?
  • 1 0
 First timer here browsing the Pinkbike comments, and I'm happy to see that karma farming is in full effect.
  • 1 0
 Buttercups? I was hoping for huckleberries. Do they come in different flavors?
  • 1 0
 Hi, will you be doing a review of the new Pike? Keen to see how these stacks up against the Fox 34
  • 4 3
 Specialized is going to sue for the buttercup thing.
  • 2 2
 Review: 2023 RockShox Lyrik Ultimate Condom - Smooth, Silent, & Incredibly Comfortable
  • 1 2
 Do you still need to buy a replacement air spring in order to change the travel??? It’s one of the things I don’t like about the big two suspension makers.
  • 1 0
 Can I purchase this damper for my existing Lyrik?
  • 1 0
 Soo is there a new 23 Zeb with these new features??
  • 2 0
 Yes - the Lyrik, Zeb, and Pike all have the same features, just with different stanchion sizes and lowers.
  • 1 4
 @mikekazimer: dont the pike and lyrik both have 35mm stanchions?
  • 1 0
 My brand new Zeb started loudly creaking after 4 rides yesterday Frown
  • 1 0
 cmon rockshox ... I'm all out of organs to sell ... Frown
  • 2 0
 PRINCESS BUTTERCUP!!!
  • 1 0
 Whats with the Grappler tire in the pic? Prototype?
  • 1 1
 I was looking forward to put the Charger 3 into my Lyrik. Looks like next fork will be a different brand.
  • 1 0
 Since when quietness is so important for a fork?!
  • 1 0
 Buttercup?
Inconciveable!!
  • 1 0
 WELP- Wipes out card- Take my money!
  • 1 0
 So the new lyrik cannot be run at 170mm?
  • 1 2
 So, say you burp the lowers twice on a long day on the bike. Do you effectively loose that pressure from your fork? Won't it feel softer letting that pressure out?
  • 1 0
 I love the sound of my GRIP2 damper.
  • 1 1
 can you upgrade to use buttercups in older Lyriks?
  • 2 0
 No.
  • 1 1
 Are the buttercups back-compatible with 2022 Ultimate?
  • 1 0
 When can we buy?
  • 1 0
 Looks intriguing.
  • 2 1
 Con: Kashima exists.
  • 1 0
 "kashima" is marketing BS
  • 1 0
 @derkenblosh: of course it is, functionally zero add. It’s just so shiny.
  • 1 1
 Bleed valves for the Zeb soon?!?!
  • 1 2
 So RockShox closing the gap on fox. Let's see what fox comes out with next year.
  • 4 7
 Go eat it, fox Hehe boi
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