Review: 2019 Eminent Haste Pro

Feb 25, 2019
by Daniel Sapp  
The Eminent Cycles Haste debuted a little over a year ago, the result of Jeff Soncrant's desire to start his own mountain bike company. Jeff started working on Eminent five years ago because he was looking for a great performing enduro bike that would accept any shock- coil or air, all wrapped in an attractive package. At that time he wasn’t able to find what he was looking for amongst the offerings available so Eminent forged their own path and developed the Haste. The US-based company uses a direct-to-consumer model, but they also have a few dealers stocking bikes.

According to Eminent, the 160mm, 27.5"-wheeled Haste is aimed at "someone who is more mature - this isn't their first bike. They're looking for something different with more engineering behind it." The Haste comes in three different builds for 2019. The mantra behind it is "good, better, best" - or "entry, mid-level, fully-loaded." The $3,999 entry level bike features all brand name components, Fox suspension, DT Wheels, Magura brakes, and Maxxis tires.
Eminent Haste

Intended use: Enduro
Travel: 160mm
Wheel size: 27.5"
Frame construction: carbon
Head angle: 65.5º
Chainstay length: 442mm
Colors: Team carbon/graphite, Team blue/white gloss, ZR1black/red satin, ZR1 red satin
Sizes: 56cm, 59cm, 62cm, 65cm, 68cm
Weight: 31.2 lbs
Price: $4,999 USD - As tested
More info: www.eminentcycles.com

The top of the line bike is $5,999 USD and has Cane Creek suspension and a Shimano XT/XTR drivetrain with Industry Nine wheels. The model we tested is more of a custom build and sells for $4,999.


bigquotesThe Haste isn't your run-of-the mill big brand bike - it brings something a little different to the table. Daniel Sapp







Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.


Construction and Features


The Haste has a unique look to it, largely due to Eminent's AFS (Active Float System) suspension design, their take on a concept used by Mert Lawwill back in the '90s. The bike's carbon frame is built around 27.5-inch wheels, and delivers 160mm of rear travel via a 230x60mm metric shock.

The carbon frame is Eminent's own blend of high modulus carbon, and most of the features we've come to expect on a modern bike - there's internal cable routing, ISCG 05 chain guide tabs, a carbon down tube guard, and 12x148 Boost spacing. The one thing that's missing is internal dropper post routing - according to Eminent, running a portion of housing on the outside of the seat tube was the best way to avoid having it turn sharp corners inside the frame, and it also eliminates the potential for cable rattle or rubbing. It's a small detail, but one that does potentially limit the number of compatible dropper posts.


Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.
Clean and simple internal cable routing.
Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.
Seat binder is integrated.



Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.
The now unique suspension design on the Haste has been around for years if you can remember the Yeti Lawwill and Schwinn Straight 8.
Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.
The floating rear brake helps modulation and keeps the suspension active under braking.



Haste Geo

Geometry & Sizing

The Haste has a 65.5-degree head tube angle, with a 438mm reach number on the 62cm frame and 442mm chainstays. The seat tube angle is a 73-degrees, which is very conservative, especially when compared to some of the bikes we've seen come out in the last few months like the Yeti SB150.

Sizing on the Haste is not what we're used to seeing from many brands. You won't see a Small, Medium, Large listed on the geometry chart; instead, Eminent's sizes are based on the top tube length. It's an interesting direction to take, especially considering that seeing that many brands are looking at reach rather than top tube length as a sizing metric. There's also the fact the the seat tube length is on the longer side of things.

For instance, take the 62cm size tested here. That bike has a reach of 438mm, which is similar to a size medium from other brands, but that same size also has a seat tube of 471mm (18.5 inches), which is what's usually found on a size large. In other words, certain riders may have difficulty running a dropper post with their ideal amount of travel.


Suspension Design

The suspension design of the Haste is what really sets it apart from most other bikes out there. It's design is a parallelogram - similar to Mert Lawwill's design used by Gary Fisher and Yeti in the '90s, but with present-day materials and kinematics. The upper link of the suspension pushes the shock, which is connected to the frame's swingarm. Having it connected like this instead of to the front of the frame helps isolate the shock from lateral forces that create friction. There are angular contact bearings at all of the suspension points to add stiffness and help with the transference of force up and down while improving durability.

The suspension is made to be moderately progressive and to work for air and coil shock configurations along with a wide range of rider weights. There's a decreasing leverage ratio and it ramps up without any ups and downs in the curve. At sag, there's an anti-squat of 115%.

With the arm directly driving the shock with nothing in between, as you would have on a four bar/FSR platform, it's difficult to get the braking forces 100% disengaged from the suspension. If that isn't managed, you end up with some bad braking tendencies and chatter with the suspension when you're trying to slow down. On the Eminent, the brake caliper floats between the rear axle and a ball-joint attached to the swingarm on a track to help isolate the brake from the suspension, which should help provide better brake modulation and a smoother feel while descending.

bigquotesThe Lawwill design suspension wants to adhere to the trail, and go fast.

Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.
Lawwill style.
Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.
Some funky angles allow for the shock to be isolated from lateral forces which cuts down on friction.


Specifications

Specifications
Price $5999
Travel 160mm
Rear Shock Cane Creek Double Barrel Air
Fork Cane Creek Helm Air 170mm Fork
Headset Cane Creek
Cassette SRAM GX 10-50t
Crankarms SRAM X01
Chainguide MRP SXg
Rear Derailleur SRAM GX Eagle
Shifter Pods SRAM GX Eagle
Handlebar Answer Pro Taper Carbon Handlebars
Stem Valiant Stem, 31.8 dia
Grips Lizard Skins Dual Lock on Grip
Brakes SRAM Guide RSC
Wheelset DT Swiss M1700
Tires Maxxis Minion DHF / DHRII
Seat WTB Volt Team Saddle - Ti Rails
Seatpost Fox Transfer Performance



Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.












Test Bike Setup

The Haste came spec'd with what I would almost consider a good all-round trail build, with 2.3" Maxxis Minion DHF/DHR II tires on DT wheels, a Sram GX Eagle drivetrain, Fox Transfer dropper, and Cane Creek suspension to smooth the ride. The Guide brakes are a little underpowered for a 160mm bike, especially coupled with the 160mm rotor on the back, but that's the only thing I see as an omission. There was really nothing I felt compelled to do upon unboxing the bike - an easy process in itself as Eminent sends it pre-assembled and ready to go. All told, getting it put together and ready to ride was only a ten minute process.

The Cane Creek suspension is pretty straight-forward in set-up but since they're right down the road from me, I met up with one of their guys to double check my settings and I was pretty spot on with what I had. I ran the sag at 19mm, or 32% of the shock's travel.

PC Mangler
Daniel Sapp
Location: Brevard, NC, USA
Age: 31
Height: 5'10"
Inseam: 32"
Weight: 152 lbs
Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Instagram: @d_sapp1

I spent my time on the Haste at home in Brevard, NC. I rode it on the more rugged, rocky and root infested trails of Pisgah National Forest where the climbs are long and the descents are fast and violent.



Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.


Climbing

The suspension design of the Haste helps it go up technical trail well, and even without using the climb switch on the Double Barrel Air there was plenty of support. The bike feels light and nimble heading uphill; there's no unwanted mushiness when stomping hard on the pedals It felt efficient as it sat up well in its travel, and has no issue pedaling over or through obstacles.

The seat angle does feel slack, and once I got around to looking at the geometry chart my impressions were confirmed. The slack angle puts the pedals farther out in front, and even with the seat slammed forward and on longer climbs I struggled with my hips becoming tight, something I rarely experience with other bikes in this category.

I rode the 62 cm size frame. With the frame this size the collar of the seatpost was bottomed out on the frame with no room to go any lower in order to achieve my preferred seat height. If you're ordering a Haste - pay attention to the sizing and make sure you're on the correct one. The seat tube heights are taller than average, which may limit how long of a dropper post you can use.

I knew I would be right on the cusp of seat tube height and could deal with that, but with the reach on the 62cm size (equivalent to a large from most other manufacturers) is a scant 438mm. Had I sized down to the 59cm, it would have been 411mm. To put that in perspective, Specialized's Stumpjumper which we have tested and agree has fairly conservative geometry has a reach of 435mm on a size medium; their small is 415mm.

On a more positive note, more technical sections of trail felt very manageable at a lower speeds - the Haste was very precise and easy to maneuver through tighter turns, although the front end did feel a little light at times during steep, seated climbing efforts.

Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.

Descending

The Haste really shines when it's pointed downhill - as it should, given that it has 160 millimeters of travel on tap. It doesn't come alive immediately, though. It rewards a more aggressive riding style and feels best when it's really pushed into obstacles and corners. It sits up higher in its travel than, say, a Santa Cruz Nomad, but it offers plenty of traction in roots and rocks. Again, the short reach and awkward geometry incited a bit of initial trepidation, but once I opened it up, the Haste delivered a magic carpet ride. The bike smoothed out the rough and felt glued to the ground.

One upside to the laid back seat angle is the fact that it's easier to get it out of the way than a bike with a steeper angle. I could descend on the Haste without fully slamming the seat down. Try to do that on a bike with a 77-degree seat tube and you're going to have a seat in your stomach and a pretty bad time.

The floating rear brake system seems to work well in isolating from the rear suspension, and I didn't experience any negative braking tendencies or loss of traction when shutting things down in rough terrain.

The bike likes to jump around and is effortless to get into the air. Bumping off of roots and rocks to double up and link sections of trail is as easy as could be and the short reach certainly doesn't hurt in those situations.






Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.
Eminent Haste

Santa Cruz Nomad 4
Santa Cruz Nomad

How does it compare?

The Santa Cruz Nomad's rear suspension feels a little more supple, sinking farther into its travel on the climbs where the Haste likes to sit up more. The Haste feels lighter and rides over the top of obstructions in the trail, while the Nomad likes to do a bit more plowing and soaking things up. On the descents, the Nomad is ready to take on any obstacle no matter the speed, where Haste seems to handle the hits better at higher speeds. Once those speeds are achieved, the Haste stays light and smooth, and rides a little higher in its travel than the Nomad.

Price wise, the Haste is a good value as it's spec'd. The one here comes close to the Nomad's carbon C S build, but with a few nicer components here and there. It's good to see the guys at Eminent offer a build with something different than the standard big brand components - the Cane Creek suspension components are a slight deviation from the norm.


Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.
Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.


Technical Report

SRAM Drivetrain: SRAM's Eagle drivetrain has become the standard. It's reliable and offers a huge range of gearing. Although its narrow-wide chainring rarely drops a chain, adding on the MRP chain guide is a big upgrade for aggressive riding.

SRAM Guide RS Brakes: When set up properly, I do like SRAM's Guide family of brakes when they're in the appropriate setting. The 160mm rotor in the back is underwhelming and Codes would be more appropriate but, the Guides still do an excellent job on this bike.

Fox Transfer Seatpost: Fox's Transfer dropper is a solid all-round choice these days. I'm not a fan of the external routing, but even so, it's a clean look and until wireless posts are perfected, the best option for this bike.

Cane Creek Helm Fork and DB Air Shock: Cane Creek's suspension has had its ups and downs, but the DB air shock has always been a quality product in my experience. It offers a ton of adjustability and helps keep the back of the bike glued to the ground. The Helm fork is consistent and reliable, but has to be ridden hard to get the most out of it. There's a lot of compression damping, no matter which way you turn the knobs, and while that is great if you ride hard or are a heavier rider, lighter weight riders and those who pick through terrain over smashing into it may find it a little bit harsh.


Daniel Sapp on Star Gap.


Pros

+ Capable descender
+ Not run-of-the-mill suspension
+ Different, outside of the box design
Cons

- Sizing can be difficult to figure out
- Slack seat tube angle
- Aesthetics seem have been a higher priority than function



Is this the bike for you?

No bike is perfect. It's all a balance of what's great and what's not so good. Eminent took a chance with their wild design and a suspension platform that's not nearly as common. If we were going to look at just the way the suspension performs, the Haste earns high marks. But, we have to factor in everything else, including the geometry and overall ride - both up and down. With it all on the table, I don't think things quite equal out.

If you think this is the bike for you, pay attention to the numbers. The slack seat tube angle, tall seat tube, and short reach give it a more "traditional" feel compared to the latest crop of all-mountain / enduro rigs.

Eminent's team is working on a 29er platform and we're all excited to see how that bike compares. With updated geometry, its suspension design may help it be a real contender.



Eminent's Response
bigquotesEminent Cycles was created to offer a great suspension that works for both air and coil, does not require proprietary shocks, looks fantastic, and always has the ability to pedal up and go down fast. We tune our suspension to rarely bottom out (through the use of volume reducing spacers), if this setting is too firm, it is easy to swap or remove spacers for a more supple ride. Given our start as a Direct to Consumer brand our customer is our ultimate priority, so we listen to feedback and continuously strive to improve. We have updated our 2019 spec to include larger brakes and bigger front tires. As for the seatpost sizing, we offer our customers the opportunity to select different length seatposts to further ensure a good fit for those in between sizes as was Daniel.Jeff Soncrant, Owner of Eminent Cycles


Pinkbike's Take
bigquotesThe Haste's unique suspension design helps it descend well, along with giving it a look that stands out from the crowd. It's always good to see new companies trying to give the established players a run for their money, but in this case the Haste's performance is hampered by its geometry, especially compared to other bikes in the same category.Daniel Sapp








132 Comments

  • + 88
 " Jeff started working on Eminent five years ago".....And did the geometry first (and left it like that).
  • + 4
 Seems about right. It takes along time for these small operations to get the product to market and buy the time they are available, things have progressed and changed.
  • + 42
 Will a real haste owner please stand up.
  • + 16
 @Boardlife69: DAMMIT!! Been trying to think of a decent Eminem pun for 40 minutes!!!
  • + 7
 I love how "traditional" is used as a negative by this writer... I've ridden the latest crop of "enduro/trail" bikes from all over the spectrum of manufacturers, the difference between Traditional and Modern geometry is there, but it isn't as big of a deal as Pinkbike loves to make it out to me. I wouldn't really list traditional as a neg unless traditional is referring to pre 2015 geometries.
  • - 3
 I'm always surprised how people can judge how a bike would ride just by looking at the numbers. I can relate the numbers to my own bike to get more or less an idea of what it would ride like in relation to my own bike, but it would still be a rough estimate. Reach appears to be low but so is stack. So I can imagine the slope of the line between bb and top of the headtube would be more or less the same hence the distance from bars to shoulders wouldn't change much either. Obviously the distance between those two points would reduce so I'd be a bit worried about my kneepads hitting the handlebar when climbing steep (and especially when climbing) but other than that I can imagine it would be fun. Less stable maybe (having your weight further over the front) but it seems doable and fun.

I actually like the slacker seat tube angle. It is a bit of a compromise these days with most brands taking the side of those who prefer to climb seated. That requires a steep seat tube angle when the saddle is up to XC height. For standing riding and especially when descending, I'd actually prefer a slacker seat tube making it easier to push the saddle sideways with my knees whenever I feel like. Ideally I'd say you get a seatpost with a lot of setback and a very steep (or near vertical) seat tube. That will give you the best saddle position both with the saddle high as well as low. As it is now (and especially with dropper seatposts) setback is limited and it seems most bike manufacturers choose to go with the steep seat tube to favour those who climb seated. So with that part of the audience catered for, it is always good to see a company produce slacker seattubes for whoever prefers those for descending.

Other than that, it seems like there is a 12mm difference in chainstay lengths between the Pinkbike table and the geometry table. 442mm appears long but it is far from the longest out there. In relation to the front center then yeah probably. But if Daniel can still ride the bike just fine then it is probably good enough.
  • + 5
 @brappjuice: Well a 438mm reach with a 471mm seat tube is traditional. And the pivot placed so high on the seat tube doesn't help with seatpost insertion lenght.
  • - 1
 That is one he'll of an ugly contraption
  • + 20
 @vinay: I can ride a penny farthing or a hardtail from 1992 just fine too, neither would translate to a great experience on the trail in 2019 and there's no "good enough" when you're spending thousands of dollars on a toy.

I really wanted to like this bike but I just don't. Looking forward to seeing some updates from these folks because there is some potential there.
  • - 3
 @danielsapp: Never tried a penny farthing but I do ride a mountain unicycle. It is fun actually, but not comparable to a mountainbike. Either way, what I took from your review is that the geometry wasn't great for seated climbing but was good fun for descending and a popping off everything. That for me (and probably for more riders out there) is a more important quality than being mighty efficient on the seated climbs.

I guess the statement "good enough" is interpreted differently. For me it is relative. For a certain price, I expect a certain level of performance. If it meets that, it is good enough. If it exceeds it then sure that is great. But there is no reason to require something to be better than "good enough". That is (in this context), require that it is better than what is to be expected for the price.
  • + 1
 Do you plan on having children? If so I would advise against the penny farting ball breaker.
  • + 1
 @dobermon: No worries. I've got two daughters. I'm read for the penny farthing.
  • + 2
 " Jeff started working on Eminent five years ago".....not a lot of Haste...
  • + 2
 @vinay: just to be clear, for how long can you climb standing up? On a 1hr ride, climbing I stay seated for about the majority of the climb, actualy I do stand up just for a few seconds to clear an obstacle or two, your argument does not makes any sense, to me at least. Or is there anything else I missed?
  • - 1
 @adespotoskyli: Living in The Netherlands, climbs typically are just a few seconds Wink . Kidding though I think the bigger climbs here are only a few minutes. There are a few that I just can't clear though. My gearing is relatively heavy (11-36 in the rear, 34 oval in the front with 26" wheels) and on loose climbs I know that seated with a slightly lighter pedaling will give a smoother transfer and make it less likely to spin out. But where is the fun in that? I just made it my challenge to try and be smooth when standing up and apply those bursts when the terrain allows it and ease off when it doesn't. On the mountain unicycle, I haven't yet mastered actually riding seat in front (SIF) so technically I'm riding that one seated though that seat is more for control and balance than actual sitting. That said, actual riding when the grip is there, I haven't really clocked it but I haven't found my limit either. I mostly go out for short mountainbike rides here because I already do more than enough (steady, seated) riding on the commuter. So I typically avoid that on the mountainbike. That said, I did some riding in South Tirol (southern Alps, Italy) and even though climbs were much longer it wasn't hard to ride standing up exclusively. At least I never raised that saddle from slammed so except for some coasting/chilling I didn't put the power down when seated. My guess is typically over half an hour of continuous standing climbing, but I don't know what the limit would be.

My neighbor is an ice speed skater (he's Frysian, so he has to) and he recently got himself a mountainbike too. I got him my old platform pedals and last weekend showed him some riding nearby. First a session on the local pumptrack to get a feel for how the bike moves underneath him, only then moved onto the other trails. For those two hours, he kept his saddle low and I don't think I saw him do any seated pedaling. Being a skater he's used to squat low and apply power for a good while.

So yeah, standing climbing may bring some extra technical challenges but physically I think it is a matter of adaptation. I do have to say that the longer reach of my current frame of my old bike (460mm vs something like 375mm) makes a huge difference too. The short reach forced me to lean backwards on the climbs for my kneepads to clear the handlebar. On my current bike, I can put my body in a much better position.
  • + 2
 @vinay: yes but that what has to do with steep sa? You lower it and it's out of the way simple
Still don't get it
  • + 1
 @adespotoskyli: That's a different question. As in my first "below threshold" post, it isn't that I don't want the saddle at all. I may not use it much for sitting, but I do like to push against it with my knees for control. I like it to be a bit rearward positioned for that. A slack seattube angle helps there. So yeah, it isn't just about being "out of the way". Many modern (full suspension) bikes do have a slack seattube but have shifted the line of the seattube forwards of the bb to achieve the desired steep effective seat tube angle when the saddle is high. Obviously if you raise it even further the seat tube angle effectively slackens again (which is what many here on PB complain about) but if you slam it all the way down it ends up more forwards than you'd have with a seat tube in line with the bb. So that's the deal basically. People call for a steep seat tube angle when the saddle is high. To make room for big wheels, wide tires etc the whole thing gets shifted forwards and eventually the slammed saddle is further forwards than I consider ideal. My suggestion merely was to develop seatposts with a lot of setback and frames with a very steep seattube. This will give you a rearwards saddle position when the saddle is low and still relatively forwards when the saddle is high.
  • + 2
 @vinay: there is an issue with kinked seat tubes when the post is extended making sa way slacker than optimal as on my jeffsy 29er, but when the seat is slamed there is not difference if the sa is slack or not, to make such a difference it must be to slack, eg like a dh frame and again won't do much difference, lower seat tubes account for that issue, also when the seat is slamed it's tt length that defines how far back or close the saddle is, sa has marginal effect as the seat stops at the tt/st merging point
  • + 1
 @adespotoskyli: Sorry, I can't make it any clearer without visual material. This is my last attempt and then I'll call it a day. You ride a Jeffsy. Alright then, check this diagram.

ep1.pinkbike.org/p6pb16750683/p6pb16750683.jpg

There are two green lines near the seat tube. One is in line with the actual seattube, the other goes through the bottom bracket and crosses the horizontal line that also crosses the top of the headtube. The first line of the actual seattube is a bit slacker than the other line commonly called the effective seattube. The actual seattube also goes in front of the bottom bracket. As you can see when the saddle is raised higher than the top tube, the saddle actually moves behind the effective seat tube. This is what you and quite a few other Pinkbike readers have issues with. My issue is that when the seat is slammed, it goes in front of the effective seat tube. And unless you're going to extend the seatpost over 400mm (approx.) out of the seattube for the XXL or over 300mm for the S model, the amount it goes behind the effective seattube will be less than the amount it goes in front when the seat is slammed. Is it a problem for me? No, because I don't buy those bikes. My initial post here was just that I appreciate that they make a slack seattube, I think it is a good idea. Not for everyone, but those for whom it isn't a good idea have plenty of other options available.
  • + 1
 @vinay: we both agree we need no more kinked seat tubes then, but on 29ers a bit difficult atm
  • + 0
 @adespotoskyli: The current trend for big wheels (26" and 24" seem to be getting less common as a rear wheel) requires more clearance. So either the chainstays have to grow, or the seattube has to move out of the way. Many companies choose to offset the seattube in front of the bb. Be it kinked (like your YT) which also limits the amount of room for the seatpost or just shifted (like Liteville) which at least gives you the full length. Again, as I mentioned in my first post, a very steep (or near vertical) seattube with a seatpost with a lot of setback would be a nice solution. It gives you the rear wheel tire clearance even with big wheels, despite the setback and thanks to the steep seattube you're getting a relatively forwards high seating position and despite the steep seattube and thanks to the setback I can still get the saddle enough to the rear when it is low. Trouble is setback doesn't seem to be fashionable at the moment. Also, except for maybe Liteville most other companies have stuck with traditional seatpost diameters despite everything that it needs to house these days (bushings, stanchions and these need to be stiff enough too). Apparently reliability of these has become acceptable by now but once you're getting dropper seatposts with a lot of setback, these seatpoasts are going to be subject to a larger bending moment which could cause binding and leaking seals etc.

So yeah, it is going to take some systems engineering. Big wheels and short chainstays in my view would require a steep seattube and a seatpost with a lot of setback. A dropper seatpost with a lot of setback will require a larger seatpost diameter for it to be reliable. Which requires a larger diameter seatpost. On a hardtail that would affect the feel of the bike. On a full susser it is likely to cause issues with the room required for the suspension linkage. A not-round (like oval or rectangular) seatpost could sort that but obviously that is going to be horrible to produce reliably and accurately, let alone keep working nicely under load and adverse conditions. It is likely to jam. Then again this would only be an issue when there is a link that has to move around the seattube. When the shock passes low through the seattube (like the newer Santa Cruz bikes) or just stays behind it (like Propain does), they could probably increase seattube diameter without issues.

Another and much easier solution would obviously be to just stick with the smaller wheel in the rear. Enough clearance even with a traditional seattube straight towards the bb.
  • + 1
 @vinay: Wut?
  • + 1
 @watchmen: Dut.
  • + 2
 @Boardlife69: It's an amazing bike. I have been riding a 2018 Giant Reign for a year now and loves to soak everything and isn't very playful, however the Haste I have been riding is extremely playful but can also handle the gnarly chunky stuff. Don't hate one this bike until you've gotten the chance to ride it.

The only thing I dislike about the bike is
the external dropper post routing. With that being the case I can't run my favorite dropper post.
  • + 0
 @Tof: Interesting. So the people who've ridden the bike seem to like and those keyboard experts who haven't, don't quite appreciate it. So that makes for an easy solution. Everyone needs to ride this bike a few times and then everyone will like it.
  • + 2
 @vinay: You've missed the memo. Most PB comment bros say their rides are just like pics of the EWS... long, smooth, calm climbs followed by sick descents, so they want their climbing geo biased towards chill, slow, seated pedaling up those roads. Actual intense rolling trails with lots of high-energy standing pedaling apparently doesn't exist anymore. Rolleyes FWIW, I hear you. Bring on the downvotes, endurobro army.
  • + 1
 @vinay: the bike needs to be ridden to understand, its beyond playful and loves to hit the rough stuff
  • + 1
 @damphear: Oh yeah, for sure. So far I've only read about people who've ridden the bike and love it and from people who have not ridden it and don't seem to like it.
  • + 39
 "someone who is more mature - this isn't their first bike. They're looking for something different with more engineering behind it." Really? C'Mon Man? Really? This the best marketing line you can come up with?
  • + 51
 Based on the geometry, what they mean by "mature" is someone who feels bike design reached its peak in about 2012.
  • + 3
 @KennyWatson: I’m mature, thank gawd I’m not that kind of mature. Who the hell designed this thing? Good lunch competing against the other vendors!
  • + 19
 sounds like a Milf on a seedy dating site
  • + 3
 The "more engineering" is a bit preten- lets go with bold. Bit of a jab to - lets see - every bike company?
  • + 2
 Lol agree. "more engineering" in the 5 years they've been around compared to the decades others have been around. Also using a suspension design that everyone else abandoned 20 years ago.
  • + 24
 No internal routing for a dropper is a total dealbreaker. It might be ok if the frame was alloy so you could drill it, but the number of good external posts is too low to not offer internal routing.
  • + 45
 *sram whispering* AXS
  • + 28
 Even if it was alloy, it would be absurd to have to drill your modern frame to fit a seatpost...
  • + 1
 It seems they are trying to solve an issue that no one else is having with internal routing. Had more than a few internally routed posts - Reverbs, KS Levs and now PNW. No issues with cable bends. But overall a beautiful bike!
  • - 3
 @AAAAAHHH: i saw a lot of people do that on dh bikes but i have never heard that they where having issues apart from warranty
  • + 1
 Its the best looking/clean "none internal" design out there for sure. But yeah.. I agree. No internal dropper is a no for me.
  • + 10
 I have the external Transfer and it's entirely trouble-free. Looks good on this bike and it's easier to deal with. Seems pretty narrow-minded to say no to this bike just for that.
  • + 1
 You can't run the cable up the seat tube because there isn't one! Maybe they could have tried to run it through one of the supports to the side of the shock but that would have to have needed some engineering (or TITS).
  • + 2
 have you tried the Fox Transfer? Best dropper out there.
  • + 6
 @totalbrody: Have you tried a Revive?
  • + 1
 @IamZOSO: The transfer is good, and smoother than the oneup, but the oneup is a better overall package considering it's short length and low price, unfortunately it doesn't have an external option
  • + 4
 PB commenters: complain about internal routing but also complain about lack of internal routing when it comes to dropper posts
  • + 5
 @vtracer: dropper post internal routing is much easier to work with than brake and shift cable routing. There is a much larger exit (top of seat tube) and you dont need to fiddle with indexing or (usually) bleeding
  • + 3
 @Legbacon: revive most reliable rebuild able easiest to bleed and has a great lever.
Have to look long and hard to find a bad thing said about the revive.
  • + 2
 @vtracer: How do you know they are the same people?
  • + 19
 glad to see an honest review even though they advertise on the site.
  • + 14
 So instead of a short seat tube with longer reach they have done the opposite........why? For me would fit the 65cms frame, with it´s 463mm reach, sounds great, but 496mm seat tube???? Even with standard seat post smashed completely down it is still damn high for me. What makes them to go this way while others are trying to keep the seat tube the same lenght (short) for all the sizes. Do they expect the bike will be ridden by t-rex or what?
  • + 11
 "Jeff started working on Eminent five years ago because he was looking for a great performing enduro bike that would accept any shock- coil or air, all wrapped in an attractive package."

These stories of people starting companies because they wanted to make a thing that does X, Y or Z when there are already many of those things on the market that do X, Y or Z seem way too frequent.
  • + 10
 There's a reason that bike manufacturers are adopting this new longer reach, slacker head tube and steeper seat angles...it works. You have numbers that make it good for speed going down, yet a peddle position that allows a seemingly downhill oriented bike to climb efficiently.

And then not be able to use an internally routed dropper (Bike Yoke 185 Revive....best dropper I've personally ever used to date) much less fit it in that tall seat tube..... as much as I love to see new bike companies try to make their way, I really can't believe all the time and money put into something that seems in many important aspects already dated.
  • + 14
 140mm stem, and reach will be spot-on.
  • + 9
 Cool a bushing for my brake mount and external cable routing for my dropper
  • + 9
 Nothing seems to be right. That brake floater gives me the chills. 160mm discs in an Enduro also
  • + 1
 For some reason the nut on the floating brake mount looks inviting for an ankle to smash into it.
  • + 9
 Yeti, Rotec and Schwinn Straight 8 all used this design - good to see it back in action!
  • + 9
 So pinkbikes take was buy a Nomad?
  • + 1
 kind of written between the lines, yes
  • + 3
 WTF, 496mm seat tube on a 463mm reach bike in 2019? My 2017 has a 480mm ST on 460mm reach and it's a nuisance, so much so that YT fixed the seat tube lengths on the 2019 Jeffsys.

Do they want people to run 100mm droppers on a 160mm travel bike?
  • + 7
 "all wrapped in an attractive package"

aaaah.... erm... [sucks teeth]
  • + 3
 Sorry Jeff and pinkbike, but that bike isn’t a jack of all trades. Coming from San Diego and having ridden it, it is an air shock exclusive frame. Climbing or pedaling wise there is zero pedal bob or close to it.

But when you point this downhill, it is very linear. Like so linear you need max tokens and high speed compression still on an air shock to make it feel right. Yes, you would bottom out with a coil shock. This bike was designed around San Diego trails where the sketchiest trail is Ted Williams. So more techs descends and less huck to flat.

Another fault is the sizing of the frame. So I normally stick with 440mm reach as that is what my nomad is. But sitting on the bike, it was uncomfortable. Like I had to go all the way to their version of a XL just so it didn’t feel like my knees were touching the handle bars.

The company is run by two guys Jeff and Paul. Jeff has a lot of hubris while Paul sees the bigger picture. And honestly, kinematically this bike would be perfect under a DH platform. But not a enduro. They need to change some geometry.
  • + 1
 I tested one of these up here in south OC last year, and while it climbed better than I thought it would, it was a brutal descent. It felt like people were riding beside me and kicking me in the thighs and forearms. I've ridden XC bikes that felt more compliant over drops. Hell, I've ridden full rigid bikes that didn't hurt that bad. The owner was saying something about needing to put different, harsher shock settings than a normal design. I like to see folks try different things, but I'll take almost any other modern design over this.
  • + 5
 "DB air shock has always been a quality product in my experience": Lose all credibility right there.
  • + 7
 Oh yes the recalled Fox Float X2 is way better... and the old ones are not compatible with the new air can... way to go Fox.
Also creaky fork crowns are ace.
Buy now for only 899$ (or more)
  • + 11
 The DB air is a solid shock. I wouldn't say the same for the Inline.
  • + 4
 I thought it was just the Inline that was a POS... is the regular DB Air with the piggyback the same?
  • + 4
 @gtrguy: the CCDB Air or Coil are good quality products.
CC and Öhlins both f*cked up because they teamed with Specialized and got their bad reputation (broken shafts on the CC on the Demo) because Specialized well tought out rear triangle and yoke (sarcasm) directly transferred side movements onto the shock- so Air shocks popped and coil shocks broke.
Just look at the old enduros- the whole air shaft was directly (!) mounted onto the yoke- thats nuts.

Yes the Inline had it flaws but now it works extremely well.

My both CCDB Air and Coil both worked flawlessly (way better than my Monarch Plus)
  • + 1
 @danielsapp: I had so much troubles with my inline in the beggining (I had like the first one when it arrived here), then finaly after third warranty replace I get the new inner parts and the thing has been working season long without any troubles. As I have been informed, Specialized pushed them to place it onto market before they solved this issues.
  • + 2
 "Eminent Cycles was created to offer a great suspension that works for both air and coil, does not require proprietary shocks, looks fantastic, and always has the ability to pedal up and go down fast."

Yaaaa, them and just about every other bike company out there too...
  • + 4
 Wait, is that the 'rock of death' on Heartbreak? Did someone armor it??

That'll make ORAMM heckling even more interesting this year!
  • + 3
 Yep, bottom of Star Gap - Motomike did some magic to that trail.
  • + 5
 They need to update the geometry post-haste.
  • + 0
 This is a copy of the "Straight 8" and the suspension system designed by "Mert Lawwill"
And pay attention because the way and trap they use to copy it, is very similar to the one used by mondraker to copy VPPs (which are already a copy)
in short, nothing new.
  • + 3
 Numbers still tell me the same thing they did when it was introduced last year: This is a "dad bike."
  • + 3
 Anybody else find the spelling vs pronunciation of "debuted" really uncool?
  • + 0
 There's a significant population that appreciates "traditional" geometry and though I jumped on the bandwagon big time with a Transition purchase, not everyone wants a long bike. My opinion nor your opinion make shit's difference in what appeals to those that like a more compact layout. Not everyone lives the delusional speed racer dream.

It is doubtful that Eminent arrived at these numbers by ignorance. Props to them for making something different in many ways. For the haters, check yourself to see if you're also spraying at those who follow trends. The hypocrisy is thick.
  • + 0
 Is there a way to validate the claims of these designs that minimize/eliminate brake jack? Seems like it's all about the rider's feelings on how the suspension is working under hard braking, but that's too subjective. There must be a way to quantify how the suspension is still working when the brakes are being applied with some sort of numerical value.

Nerds, get to work.
  • + 2
 There is, it’s called anti-rise. 100% is neutral, greater than 100% the bike will squat, the closer you get to 0% the more active the bike gets, and anything negative is genuine brake jack
  • + 4
 Yikes. Not a fan of that Geo AT ALL.
  • + 3
 To much compromises to even think about it, ugly, Geo from the past, external dropper
  • + 2
 Sorry, Eminent. Good try and nice looking bike but you need to see why Nukeproof Mega 275 wins podiums and go back and fix your geometry.
  • + 2
 I think I'd rather have the brake jack than the noise and slop that caliper mount is going to make is a year or two.
  • + 1
 Just got my custom build built. Got the frame when they were discounted $1000. This thing is a fast beast and I am telling you this coming from a Yeti SB6...
  • + 3
 Cocaine is a hellavu drug
  • + 2
 Is the name used for ironic purposes? Never heard of them before (Looks smart though!)
  • - 1
 So here's what we really want to know:

1) First ride pic: Devil's Staircase/Bennett?
2) Second ride pic: Up to Black from Clawhammer?
3) Third ride pic: Hmm, I'm guessing either Sycamore or Laurel?
4) Fourth ride pic: Pilot Rock?
  • + 16
 1) Nope
2) Wrong county
3) Still guessing wrong
4) Negative

I'm not going to be able to have you on my WNC trail trivia team after this but you should go ride Heartbreak and Star Gap, they're great right now.
  • + 2
 @danielsapp: LOL. Heartbreak rips. Love it. Haven't done Star Gap, yet. Where it at?
  • + 6
 @Tearsforgears: Bottom of Heartbreak...you hang a right and head out over the railroad tracks to the geyser.
  • + 1
 @danielsapp: That new rock armoring at the bottom looks good.
  • + 1
 I was immediately stoked to see that this was taken at the railroad crossing at the bottom of Heartbreak/Star Gap.
  • + 4
 Poor shock
  • - 2
 Someone will design a fender for that. Until then, owners will just recycle a piece of tube, suspend it there and not worry about a thing.
  • + 1
 @vinay: they give you a little mud guard
  • + 1
 @damphear: Why would @kanter feel sorry for that shock then? Judging by the upvotes, people really love what he said there so he must have a point.
  • + 1
 @vinay: aftera full day of riding the mud never really flings to the shock, it flings on the seat tube and my ass, that little piece that the shock connects to is way over built and I seen them smash it with a hammer at the factory
  • + 3
 at least there is a "Pro" in its name
  • + 3
 Looks like a.... Mondraker Dune?
  • + 1
 I was actually scrolling down to see if anyone already made such a comment. If it wasn't there, I'd have taken the spot. Now all we have to do is wait. Wait for someone to point out that we're idiots because the suspension linkage is different.
  • + 6
 @vinay: You are idiots. It looks more like a Lawwill got inseminated by a Meta V3.
  • + 1
 @BenPea: spot on
  • + 1
 Really ugly one though Big Grin And with less well designed suspension kinematics.
  • + 1
 @Mondbiker: Thanks, now I'm feeling even more inadequate. Am I the only one on Pinkbike who can't rank suspension kinematics by merely looking at pictures?
  • + 1
 @vinay: there is enough informations out there and there is animation in the article as well Wink
  • + 1
 @Mondbiker: Daniel seems quite positive about the suspension in the article. Climbing, descending, braking, all good. I saw the animation too but I don't see what would be bad about that. There is some drivetrain interference deep in the travel but would that be a problem for anyone? If you bottom out 160mm of rear wheel suspension, it is ok to feel something through your feet.
  • + 1
 @vinay: let´s say if there is a place where you don´t want any kickback it´s deep in the travel.
  • + 1
 Guess who's back, back again? Mert Lawwill's design, back again; tell a friend...
  • + 1
 I love my haste and most of you guys are just talking shit to talk shit, go ride your bikes
  • + 2
 What is that little stick thingy holding up the rear shock? Hmmmmmm
  • + 1
 I saw that exact bike on the back of a truck on Sweeten Creek a couple weeks ago.
  • - 2
 Interesting that they chose such conservative numbers. I don't look as much at reach numbers these days as I look at top tube length and seat tube angle. My Fuse has similar numbers in a size large and fits my 5'10 frame well.
  • + 4
 Why you look at toptube lenght? TTL is irrelevant when descending whereas reach is way more important, especially on 160mm enduro bikes.

Or is doing XC loops on 160mm bikes now en vogue?
  • + 1
 @NotNamed: I think he is saying that he uses seat tube angle and top tube length and then does math and calculated reach instead if just looking at the reach number.
  • + 3
 @Chris97a: Sorry, I dont get it. You get the effective TTL - but it changes with how far you seatpost is Up/ seat slammed forward.
  • + 3
 @NotNamed: I was sort of joking around as his statement is basically saying that he calculated reach.

Back in the day when I road bike raced we would use top tube length and seat angle to figure out how long a bike actually was. This actually worked because all bikes had flat top tube and straight seat tubes. With a modern Mt. bike you have to make a lot of assumptions or physically measure the bike. So reach numbers are great.
  • + 1
 @Chris97a: Haha got me good. Yeah as the seattubes get shorter the TT get steeper- little but difficult to figure some numbers out.
Reach/ Stack and CS lenght are Most important IMO.
  • + 1
 we heard you like pivots so we added some pivots to your pivots
  • + 1
 damn..that's a nice packaging.
  • + 1
 Well if anyone wants to try one out in the NYC NJ area let me know.
  • + 1
 Cool bike but not in love how it looks
  • + 1
 The Real Slim Shady Please Stand Up.
  • + 1
 That Linkage is a Lawwill Rotec RL9
  • + 1
 is this a versus weapon x?
  • + 1
 Interesting, looks dope for some reason. I’d love to try this
  • + 1
 Nope just going to wait for the new ROTEC lawill to come out .
  • + 1
 Blagh'
  • - 2
 These bikes are terrible.
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