The suspension design of the Haste helps it go up technical trail well, and even without using the climb switch on the Double Barrel Air there was plenty of support. The bike feels light and nimble heading uphill; there's no unwanted mushiness when stomping hard on the pedals It felt efficient as it sat up well in its travel, and has no issue pedaling over or through obstacles.
The seat angle does feel slack, and once I got around to looking at the geometry chart my impressions were confirmed. The slack angle puts the pedals farther out in front, and even with the seat slammed forward and on longer climbs I struggled with my hips becoming tight, something I rarely experience with other bikes in this category.
I rode the 62 cm size frame. With the frame this size the collar of the seatpost was bottomed out on the frame with no room to go any lower in order to achieve my preferred seat height. If you're ordering a Haste - pay attention to the sizing and make sure you're on the correct one. The seat tube heights are taller than average, which may limit how long of a dropper post you can use.
I knew I would be right on the cusp of seat tube height and could deal with that, but with the reach on the 62cm size (equivalent to a large from most other manufacturers) is a scant 438mm. Had I sized down to the 59cm, it would have been 411mm. To put that in perspective, Specialized's Stumpjumper which we have tested
and agree has fairly conservative geometry has a reach of 435mm on a size medium; their small is 415mm.
On a more positive note, more technical sections of trail felt very manageable at a lower speeds - the Haste was very precise and easy to maneuver through tighter turns, although the front end did feel a little light at times during steep, seated climbing efforts.
I actually like the slacker seat tube angle. It is a bit of a compromise these days with most brands taking the side of those who prefer to climb seated. That requires a steep seat tube angle when the saddle is up to XC height. For standing riding and especially when descending, I'd actually prefer a slacker seat tube making it easier to push the saddle sideways with my knees whenever I feel like. Ideally I'd say you get a seatpost with a lot of setback and a very steep (or near vertical) seat tube. That will give you the best saddle position both with the saddle high as well as low. As it is now (and especially with dropper seatposts) setback is limited and it seems most bike manufacturers choose to go with the steep seat tube to favour those who climb seated. So with that part of the audience catered for, it is always good to see a company produce slacker seattubes for whoever prefers those for descending.
Other than that, it seems like there is a 12mm difference in chainstay lengths between the Pinkbike table and the geometry table. 442mm appears long but it is far from the longest out there. In relation to the front center then yeah probably. But if Daniel can still ride the bike just fine then it is probably good enough.
I really wanted to like this bike but I just don't. Looking forward to seeing some updates from these folks because there is some potential there.
I guess the statement "good enough" is interpreted differently. For me it is relative. For a certain price, I expect a certain level of performance. If it meets that, it is good enough. If it exceeds it then sure that is great. But there is no reason to require something to be better than "good enough". That is (in this context), require that it is better than what is to be expected for the price.
My neighbor is an ice speed skater (he's Frysian, so he has to) and he recently got himself a mountainbike too. I got him my old platform pedals and last weekend showed him some riding nearby. First a session on the local pumptrack to get a feel for how the bike moves underneath him, only then moved onto the other trails. For those two hours, he kept his saddle low and I don't think I saw him do any seated pedaling. Being a skater he's used to squat low and apply power for a good while.
So yeah, standing climbing may bring some extra technical challenges but physically I think it is a matter of adaptation. I do have to say that the longer reach of my current frame of my old bike (460mm vs something like 375mm) makes a huge difference too. The short reach forced me to lean backwards on the climbs for my kneepads to clear the handlebar. On my current bike, I can put my body in a much better position.
Still don't get it
There are two green lines near the seat tube. One is in line with the actual seattube, the other goes through the bottom bracket and crosses the horizontal line that also crosses the top of the headtube. The first line of the actual seattube is a bit slacker than the other line commonly called the effective seattube. The actual seattube also goes in front of the bottom bracket. As you can see when the saddle is raised higher than the top tube, the saddle actually moves behind the effective seat tube. This is what you and quite a few other Pinkbike readers have issues with. My issue is that when the seat is slammed, it goes in front of the effective seat tube. And unless you're going to extend the seatpost over 400mm (approx.) out of the seattube for the XXL or over 300mm for the S model, the amount it goes behind the effective seattube will be less than the amount it goes in front when the seat is slammed. Is it a problem for me? No, because I don't buy those bikes. My initial post here was just that I appreciate that they make a slack seattube, I think it is a good idea. Not for everyone, but those for whom it isn't a good idea have plenty of other options available.
So yeah, it is going to take some systems engineering. Big wheels and short chainstays in my view would require a steep seattube and a seatpost with a lot of setback. A dropper seatpost with a lot of setback will require a larger seatpost diameter for it to be reliable. Which requires a larger diameter seatpost. On a hardtail that would affect the feel of the bike. On a full susser it is likely to cause issues with the room required for the suspension linkage. A not-round (like oval or rectangular) seatpost could sort that but obviously that is going to be horrible to produce reliably and accurately, let alone keep working nicely under load and adverse conditions. It is likely to jam. Then again this would only be an issue when there is a link that has to move around the seattube. When the shock passes low through the seattube (like the newer Santa Cruz bikes) or just stays behind it (like Propain does), they could probably increase seattube diameter without issues.
Another and much easier solution would obviously be to just stick with the smaller wheel in the rear. Enough clearance even with a traditional seattube straight towards the bb.
The only thing I dislike about the bike is
the external dropper post routing. With that being the case I can't run my favorite dropper post.
Have to look long and hard to find a bad thing said about the revive.
These stories of people starting companies because they wanted to make a thing that does X, Y or Z when there are already many of those things on the market that do X, Y or Z seem way too frequent.
And then not be able to use an internally routed dropper (Bike Yoke 185 Revive....best dropper I've personally ever used to date) much less fit it in that tall seat tube..... as much as I love to see new bike companies try to make their way, I really can't believe all the time and money put into something that seems in many important aspects already dated.
aaaah.... erm... [sucks teeth]
But when you point this downhill, it is very linear. Like so linear you need max tokens and high speed compression still on an air shock to make it feel right. Yes, you would bottom out with a coil shock. This bike was designed around San Diego trails where the sketchiest trail is Ted Williams. So more techs descends and less huck to flat.
Another fault is the sizing of the frame. So I normally stick with 440mm reach as that is what my nomad is. But sitting on the bike, it was uncomfortable. Like I had to go all the way to their version of a XL just so it didn’t feel like my knees were touching the handle bars.
The company is run by two guys Jeff and Paul. Jeff has a lot of hubris while Paul sees the bigger picture. And honestly, kinematically this bike would be perfect under a DH platform. But not a enduro. They need to change some geometry.
Do they want people to run 100mm droppers on a 160mm travel bike?
That'll make ORAMM heckling even more interesting this year!
Also creaky fork crowns are ace.
Buy now for only 899$ (or more)
CC and Öhlins both f*cked up because they teamed with Specialized and got their bad reputation (broken shafts on the CC on the Demo) because Specialized well tought out rear triangle and yoke (sarcasm) directly transferred side movements onto the shock- so Air shocks popped and coil shocks broke.
Just look at the old enduros- the whole air shaft was directly (!) mounted onto the yoke- thats nuts.
Yes the Inline had it flaws but now it works extremely well.
My both CCDB Air and Coil both worked flawlessly (way better than my Monarch Plus)
Yaaaa, them and just about every other bike company out there too...
And pay attention because the way and trap they use to copy it, is very similar to the one used by mondraker to copy VPPs (which are already a copy)
in short, nothing new.
It is doubtful that Eminent arrived at these numbers by ignorance. Props to them for making something different in many ways. For the haters, check yourself to see if you're also spraying at those who follow trends. The hypocrisy is thick.
1) First ride pic: Devil's Staircase/Bennett?
2) Second ride pic: Up to Black from Clawhammer?
3) Third ride pic: Hmm, I'm guessing either Sycamore or Laurel?
4) Fourth ride pic: Pilot Rock?
2) Wrong county
3) Still guessing wrong
I'm not going to be able to have you on my WNC trail trivia team after this but you should go ride Heartbreak and Star Gap, they're great right now.
Nerds, get to work.
Or is doing XC loops on 160mm bikes now en vogue?
Back in the day when I road bike raced we would use top tube length and seat angle to figure out how long a bike actually was. This actually worked because all bikes had flat top tube and straight seat tubes. With a modern Mt. bike you have to make a lot of assumptions or physically measure the bike. So reach numbers are great.
Reach/ Stack and CS lenght are Most important IMO.
~~The Haste feels lighter and rides over the top of obstructions in the trail, while the Nomad likes to do a bit more plowing and soaking things up. On the descents, the Nomad is ready to take on any obstacle no matter the speed, where Haste seems to handle the hits better at higher speeds.~~