Review: Enve's New M7 Carbon Handlebar & Stem

Aug 2, 2018
by Daniel Sapp  


Enve are best known for their American made carbon wheels, but they also manufacture carbon bars, stems, forks, and other accessories at their Ogden, Utah, facility. The M7 series handlebar and stem are new additions to the lineup, the first components from Enve with a 35mm clamp diameter.

Just like with their wheels, Enve make several different carbon bars, each with a different construction that is engineered and tuned for an intended application. With the M7, the objective was to create a 35mm bar for aggressive all-mountain/enduro riding that has the same flex tune as the M9 - Enve's DH bar. The M7 bar is 800mm wide and can be cut down to 780mm and is available with 10mm, 25mm, or 40mm of rise.

The M7 carbon stem is designed to be lightweight, strong, and appropriate for gravity applications. It's made to pair with the M7 bar for the all-mountain/enduro rider looking for the "best in class cockpit" - at least according to Enve. The stem comes in 35mm, 50mm, and 65mm lengths.

The 230g handlebar sells for $170 USD and the 92g stem (50mm) sells for $280 USD.

Enve M7 Handlebar Details
• Construction: carbon
• Clamp: 35mm
• Rise: 10mm, 25mm, 40mm
• Sweep: 8-deg
• Tip: 4-deg
• Colors: black
• Weight: 240g
• MSRP: $170 USD

Enve M7 Stem Details
• Construction: carbon with titanium hardware and alloy faceplate
• Clamp: 35mm
• Lengths: 35mm, 50mm, 65mm
• Weight: 85g, 92g, 99g (respectively)
• Rise: 0-deg
• Colors: black
• MSRP: $280 USD
www.enve.com


The M7 handlebar and 50mm stem.
The carbon stem has titanium hardware and an aluminum faceplate.


Construction

The M7 bars are designed to be stiff, but Enve don't recommended cutting the bar any shorter than 780mm because it will further increase its stiffness and create a poor ride quality. Therefore, Enve argues that the M7 bar may not be for everyone, especially "lighter riders who don't need an 800mm wide bar and super high levels of strength." For those riders, the M6, at 780mm and with their smaller, 31.8 clamp may be a better choice.

Enve's carbon M7 is their only 35mm-clamp stem. They say that it was challenging to make a stem from carbon, and then making one for all-mountain / enduro applications made it even more challenging. The carbon stem is a one-piece construction with titanium hardware and a cold-forged aluminum faceplate. The carbon layup is designed to mute out more vibration than an aluminum stem would.




A Deeper Look

I'm sure there are plenty of people wondering exactly why they should even consider spending $450 on a bar and stem, among other things. So, I reached out to Jake Pantone, Enve's VP of Product and Consumer Experience, with a few questions that may be helpful and clarifying.

What is involved in Enve's engineering process? What about it is unique to Enve?


Jake Pantone: Enve's development process always involves riders. The main reason we sponsor athletes is to collect feedback and validate the paths we are taking with product development. For example, the M9 handlebars were developed initially with the Syndicate and then with our current WC DH team, Intense Factory Racing. So, initial testing happens in the lab, of course. We'll have several different laminate designs/stiffnesses and after they pass safety requirements, we'll send them out to our teams and other test riders for feedback. When we were developing our first line of DH bars, we took delivery of 200 bars that met our weight and safety/impact requirements, but through the test riding process, we collectively decided they rode awfully and proceeded to cut them all up and go back to the drawing board.

We always take the approach of, "How do we get the absolute, no holds barred, best combination of characteristics that we want from the product," which ultimately results in a component that is more expensive to produce. Why? Time, materials, and labor. For example, let's say you want to produce a handlebar. You can say it needs to be 800mm wide, 6-degree sweep, 250g...whatever you want. You can send a drawing to the factory and they'll produce you a bar that meets those requirements. They'll test it for strength, tell you how stiff it is, and say that it's good to go. You can take some samples for testing where you may ride them and love them, if you do, you go to production. If you hate them, then it will cost you time and money to change them. You could also knowingly hate them and go to market anyways with them.

We never have to deliberate what path we'll take. We always will do what's best for the product and ultimately, the end rider.

In developing a handlebar, what is Enve's ideal balance between weight, stiffness, strength, and ride quality?


There are always tradeoffs, so it is our job as a design team to prioritize the goals and make those decisions. For example: you want an 810mm bar with "X" stiffness profile and strength rating at 225g? You'll either have to make it less strong, more narrow, or add weight and sacrifice the 225g goal for, say, 250g. In terms of ride quality, we're looking for a bar that is both compliant, but also sharp and responsive in terms of handling and reacting to rider inputs. This is where the art of designing carbon fiber laminates comes into play and also why carbon is a superior material for handlebars.

Enve has both "trail-rated" and "DH-rated" handlebars. Is there a specific metric used to determine what makes one different from the other, or is it more of a general "recommended use" for each bar?


The differences are all-encompassing. The intended use dictates the flex tune and stiffness profile, ultimate strength, and weight. For example: the M5 is our XC race rated bar. It remains a 31.8mm clamp to ensure we could achieve the flex profile and weight we targeted. The M5 and M6 are going to be far better bars for light riders, less aggressive terrain, or short travel bikes. These bars have a specific tune, strength, and stiffness profile which is optimized for the widths they come in . The gravity rated bars are for hard chargers on big bikes and terrain. They are for riders who ride more over the front of their bikes and need more control through bigger hits. The M7 are 35mm clamp bars and M9 are 31.8 - both the M7 and M9 have the same ultimate strength and flex tune. The gravity bars are ride tuned for bar widths of 780-810 so cutting one of those bars down to 760mm will adversely impact the ride quality by making it feel harsher and overly stiff, causing rider fatigue.

What were the biggest challenges in constructing the new M Series bars?


There was a lot of pre-work to determine the geometries we would target with the handlebar lineup. We did trips to team training camps and collected feedback, face to face, with our pro riders. For example, the M9x50mm rise is the bar that Jack Moir wanted. The rise options available in the M7 lineup were based on the direct feedback from the Orbea and Alchemy EWS teams. The biggest challenge of course, is making everyone happy.


Is carbon the best material for a handlebar or is it just another option for someone looking for a specific feel?


In short, yes. Carbon is the best/ultimate material for a handlebar. Aluminum simply isn't as tunable, it fatigues, and the ride quality of aluminum pales in comparison to a properly constructed carbon handlebar. Sure, aluminum is less expensive, but carbon, when done right, is lighter, stronger, more durable, and more compliant without sacrificing response and control.

What makes a stem cost $280? What really sets it apart?


First, a stem is a no-compromise component. It can't break catastrophically and therefore every measure is taken to ensure that it is up to the task. This means cost isn't a consideration for Enve when we're designing the laminate. Given that it's a small part with a lot of small pieces, the bulk of the cost is associated with the manufacturing process. To give context, there are over 50 different pieces that go into each mountain stem. Each piece needs to be cut, plied, and laid in the mold. After it's molded, it needs to be finished. That means a fair amount of sanding to clear the parting lines caused by the molding process off of the stem in order to prep for paint.

When you compare the process to that of a forged or machined alloy, you can see how much more complexity is involved in a carbon part vs. alloy.

Dispelling or confirming some myths about carbon bars - What considerations need to be taken when putting controls on the bars?


There is a lot of misinformation on the internet as well as bad experience as related to carbon bars on the internet. Some warranted, some not. There have been many questionable products produced over the years, but that was then and this is now. The bike industry has learned a lot and reputable carbon manufacturers are making great products. Like any product, special care specific to the construction material of the product should be considered. When installing a carbon handlebar and controls on the bar, USE A TORQUE WRENCH. At Enve, I can count the number of broken handlebars I've seen in my 10+ years here on two hands with fingers to spare. Of those broken bars, 100% were related to controls being over clamped or a bar being damaged in a crash and not replaced.

So, what if someone crashes and damages the bars?


If you're the original owner and you happen to damage or break a bar while riding/crashing, we'll replace it. If you overtightened your controls and didn't follow the installation instructions, we have a 50% off replacement option. We don't want people jeopardizing their safety by riding a bar they've crashed on because they can't afford to replace it.

When does a carbon bar get to the point where you say, "okay, don't use this, it's unsafe" from a crash, abuse, etc?


Anytime a bar has been scratched to levels beneath the paint, we suggest the rider consult with Enve or a local Enve retailer or distributor. A sure indicator that your bar is unsafe and damaged beyond safe usage would be if the impact creates a soft spot (you can push in on the bar and feel it give with your finger) or if you tap on the bar at a point of impact and the resonance changes to a dead tone. This means you likely have compromised the laminate. In general, if you have a question, just ask us.




Performance

I mounted up a 25mm rise M7 bar with a 50mm M7 stem on my Rocky Mountain Instinct test mule. It's the bike I ride the most and therefore have established a great baseline as to how specific parts behave on it. It previously had a 35mm-clamp, 780mm-wide aluminum RaceFace Turbine R handlebar, and an aluminum stem. I've been riding a mix of carbon and aluminum bars on all of the test bikes I've had lately, with the carbon bars ranging from Specialized's 31.8mm S-Works DH handlebar to RaceFace's 35mm SixC. I typically run my bars at 785mm, and I weigh 150-155 lbs (68-70kg) and ride fairly light on trail, rather than straight-line smashing and plowing.

There are a lot of products that are hard to tell a difference between, especially when we're talking stiffness and compliance, but this handlebar and stem combo is an exception. It is noticeable right away how much more stiff it is than the RaceFace bar that I previously had on the Instinct, and every other bar I've ridden in recent memory. From standing up and pedaling to turning, to riding full gas down rough and technical sections of trail, this bar is incredibly stout. The first ride I did with the M7 duo was a mix of high-speed chunky hits, roots, and erosion on Pisgah's Bennett Gap trail, which is one of my "go-to" testing rides. At the bottom of that first ride, I felt that I had been worked over by the front end of the bike. Noticeably stiffer than most any other bar out there, no doubt.

As I continued to put more and more time in on the M7, I became accustomed to the ride. What seemed harsh at first translated into my being able to pick up on little trail nuances that I don't typically feel with other setups. Every input that I made was immediate and responsive. Even though I wasn't initially a fan of the increased feedback, I've come to appreciate and like the way it rides.

Now, the bar at $170 is by no means inexpensive, but the $280 stem is three times the price of Race Face's nicest alloy stem and close to half the price of a season pass for the Whistler Bike Park, all for a few dozen grams. I don't believe that it will offer near the difference in performance that the M7 bar does, however, it is an upgrade over most other stems available. It's handcrafted in Ogden, Utah, and as Enve claim, "It's maybe not for everyone but for those looking for the absolute best cockpit they can put on their bike, pair the M Series bar and stem" - a statement with which I agree.



Issues

This isn't as much of an issue as it is a word of caution to anyone considering buying the M7 bar/stem. The M7 combo isn't for everyone, and even Enve will attest to that. It's made to be really stiff and strong, and if you want to cut the bars down, it's only going to increase that characteristic. Aggressive riders who weigh at or above 150lbs (68kg) and who are looking for a very stiff, responsive, well-made and matched combination won't be disappointed with the performance. The price is another story... A lot of riders, however, would be better served by going with Enve's M5 or M6 handlebar/stem that's going to be a little more compliant. Personally, I am on the line. While I've grown to really like the M7, I also think I could be very happy with the slightly more compliant ride of the M6.


Pinkbike's Take
bigquotesThe ride quality of the new M7 and stem combo is excellent, especially if stiffness is high on your priority list. While this setup may be too much for some riders when it comes to the overall ride feel or cost, those looking for a seriously solid feeling cockpit without suffering a weight penalty won't be disappointed.Daniel Sapp








204 Comments

  • 83 8
 Enve's starting point to make any component is a) to make everything out of carbon no matter what, and b) to use that as justification for it to cost a bomb. I'm sure if they could they would sell grips and tyres made out of carbon, and charge 10X.
  • 22 2
 Better have that tourque wrench handy to install your tyres so they don’t fail too.
  • 4 2
 Looks like a stem made out of playdoll
  • 21 0
 @chyu: playdoll? You sick-O.
  • 8 6
 I LOVE ENVE bars and stems...they add no value to the used bikes that I buy, and I can sell them for big bucks. Seriously though...they're a complete waste of money. At least their wheels add some value.
  • 6 2
 It's just bling and because they can. It is fully explained, they spared no expense for a carbon stem and this is it.
Aluminum is cheaper, much easier to make, can be just as light and made to any stiffness.

I'm surprised they didn't make a one piece stem/bar, maybe the others that already did that have a patent.

There is no doubt the Enve stem is the ultimate bling, absolutely no reason to buy one.
  • 70 29
 This site seems to be full of cheap suckers who don't give a damn about performance. I get that not everyone can distinguish the difference between an average component and an awesome component. But just because you can't notice the differences, it doesn't mean they aren't there, and it doesn't mean that the company is trying to screw everyone over.

As to the consistent grumbling about price... You gotta pay to play. This hobby/sport/passion is a non-essential part of life that people find immense enjoyment in. It also happens to be a very expensive sport. Stop shitting all over the time and effort that people have put into this industry to make it better, just because you don't want to pay for things. If you don't like the price tag, move on and buy something cheaper. There are ALWAYS cheaper options out there. Crying about the price and claiming that it is "unjustified" or "absurd" just shows how ignorant you are to the way things work. Or you are just a dirty socialist. Either way, I think Jack Pantone's responses to the questions were completely reasonable, and gave a small insight to exactly how much time and effort a lot of companies put into the products they sell. There is nothing wrong with ENVE putting a high price tag on their products. There is nothing wrong with ENVE being proud of the things they sell. If the product is worth it, people will buy it. Sometimes people will buy it even if it isn't worth it. But that's a whole other topic that i'd be happy to discuss.
  • 2 1
 @Rasterman: Ritchey, Syncros (Scott) and those Spanish guys all have one-piece combos so I don't see why Enve couldn't do one too.
  • 5 4
 @Mojo348
They are "carbon made" company and I would be extremely disappointed if they would decided to produce something out of aluminium or some other material.
Also, as @Rasterman already pointed out, they are pure bling company and it would be absolutely idiotic move to go and offer a product or the whole line of products for the reasonable price.
  • 8 4
 @dtiskevics: well said.
  • 5 18
flag makripper (Aug 2, 2018 at 8:20) (Below Threshold)
 I just got a new truvativ descendant alu bar for 80$ my second day out I crashed and scratched it. If it was a carbon bar it would be in the garbage along with my 400$ (x2 for needing a new bar)
  • 17 2
 @makripper: I take it you didn't read the interview before coming to comment bash them

"If you're the original owner and you happen to damage or break a bar while riding/crashing, we'll replace it"
  • 6 0
 @vid1998: ever try to roll your bars forward or backward on those 1 piece jobs?

I'll keep my modular and adjustable setup.
  • 5 1
 @makripper: Or, if it was an Enve bar, they would replace if for free (as it says in this piece)
  • 2 1
 Love that RMB colorway!
  • 4 2
 @toad321: I read it. I don't really feel like waiting months for a crash replacement... Would probably just spend evem more on a backup alu bar.
  • 2 1
 @djyosh: free doesn't matter if you have to wait. And they would likely want you to ship your old bar to them at your expense for them to see for themselves. Details are important.
  • 6 4
 @dtiskevics: Socialist? Pretty sure socialists are okay paying for things, since they're pro tax.

Coloured an otherwise insightful post with that comment.
  • 7 1
 @dtiskevics: Everyone grumbles about the price of components that they themselves either can’t afford or wouldn’t pay for. Why? EVERYTHING has to be priced within THEIR particular range of what they consider reasonable? For the people that want the most well thought out and well constructed components, made of the best materials, and have the cash to buy it, more power to ‘em. No one is holding a gun to anyone’s head making them buy ENVE. The name of the company itself explains a lot of why people like to hate on them. It just shows their true colors.

Just don’t buy it people!!! It’s as simple as that if you don’t like the price. Don’t buy it.
  • 4 3
 @dtiskevics: Nice stuff costs a lot of money but half of the stuff Enve makes nowadays can hardly be considered top tier. The weight to cost ratio of these parts are embarrassingly bad. Especially considering people will bankrupt themselves to buy this stuff while believing they're getting the best. I guess impressing your buddies with how much of your bike is covered in Enve is what's most important.
  • 3 2
 @TheLanknessMonster: There might be more to quality than weight. I’m sure they could go lighter, don’t you think? My guess is performance and durability also plays a part in their design process.
  • 3 2
 @TheLanknessMonster: I am a bike mechanic, and thus get slightly better deals than the average joe off the street, but I ponied up for a full ENVE cockpit on my road bike. I have used other carbon cockpits, several in fact, I test ride bikes CONSTANTLY. The ENVE stuff on my bike is the best I have felt.
  • 1 0
 @FLATLlNE: I didn't say I'd like it or buy it just that they could probably make one if they'd like to.
  • 2 0
 INSTAGRAM has lied to you it's OK to have to SAVE-UP for a purchase. It may be too late to mention Guidance Counselor to some here, but it should be a serious conversation everyone has. I've ridden the M7 on a borrowed bike that was full sus and their stiffness was great. I prefer the M5 on my personal rig as I'm rolling rigid steel, they really calm the trail down in combination with a carbon fork. Most people buying ENVE are eveyday riders who love bikes...they are discerning riders who probably started with the bars, stem cap and socks and then won't accept anything less than perfection when buying future components. "Hi my name is 801Trails and I'm an ENVE addict." It's just not a problem for me.
  • 2 0
 @vid1998: I get you, for sure. But honestly, I don't think they makes sense. You have no control over your rise and sweep as it changes with fork angles, reach, etc.
  • 1 0
 @FLATLlNE: I agree with you. Until designers/engineers will have the same amount of knowledge about bike geometry and human position like they have with road bikes they will hardly make a combo that would work for a majority of people. And still then they would have to offer quite a lot of different lenght/widht/rise/sweep options.
  • 3 0
 @sheepstar: True. I am very passionate about this particular subject and I let an unrelated part of that argument (socialism) come out today before it was needed. My bad, next time i'll try to keep my response more tailored to the specific point i'm rebutting.
  • 4 4
 @Garrathustra: I've also ridden a full enve cockpit before. Sure, it's nice stuff but there's not some magical difference between other nice carbon stuff. I'd rather go for something cheaper for the same weight/feel or if I'm spending $$$ I'd get some actually light components. Enve might impress the Freds out there but more experienced riders are less impressed becuase they know you shelled out big bucks for pretty average stuff.
  • 1 0
 @Rasterman: I'd guess they sell far less stems then bars, so they'd be worried about losing sales if people had to buy the manufacturing process for the stem along with the bar. Also the manufacturing of the two together is likely higher than the two separate, especially considering you can manufacture one stem for a variety of bar sizes.
  • 2 0
 @dtiskevics: Cheers mate!
  • 2 1
 @dtiskevics: i love you
  • 1 0
 @sheepstar: here here!
  • 3 1
 @TheLanknessMonster: In my opinion, there is definitely a difference, although I wouldn’t call it magical, and I wouldn’t consider myself fooled. I have spec’d my road bike with lighter carbon bars and aluminum stems, both of high quality and not much cheaper than ENVE. The ride was harsh and buzzy. And with zero flex to the bars, I would be scared to ride my bike if it fell over in the garage. The ENVE stuff has a noticeable increase in dampening, very noticeable, compared to basically every bar/stem combo I have pedaled around. All while staying functionally stiff for climbing and sprinting. I don’t have a drop of ENVE on my MTB (a Yeti, which everyone likes to hate on, too, because they don’t mess around with anything below high end and never have). I use Deity for that. But ENVE does make a superior product to most any other company out there. You will always have diminishing returns as you approach the top of the component food chain, but that is not a knock on a company that strives with everything they have to make the absolute best regardless of price. They know their market is a small slice of what is already a small slice of the cycling population, which is a small slice of the population as a whole.

What bothers me is that people get angry that they would have the gall to make something that most people can’t afford. Should Shimano stop making XTR because most people could never buy it? They will gladly buy the trickle down technology that ends up in every generation of XT and SLX. Is XTR “fooling” people?
  • 2 0
 @schralpknobslikecornonthecob: Trolls not wanted/needed do*che bag.
  • 70 1
 i like the combo of enve carbon bars and cheap guide r brakes
  • 22 1
 No money left for expensive brake. I think guide r brakes are good, but i would prefer a combo of high end brake normal bar/stem.
  • 3 0
 I have R's on my base line alu bike - it also struck me as odd. But I guess @Alain2 nailed it.
  • 6 24
flag mollow (Aug 2, 2018 at 7:27) (Below Threshold)
 As much as you guys like to diss on Guides R their latest version is miles ahead shimano and even has more power than the over-rated Hopes everyone wanks on when setup properly...
  • 12 5
 @mollow: Yeah, no. I have Guide Rs on my YT. The are adequate. at best. I put a set of SLX on my old Kona and they were much stronger. Even the cheapy Deore's my wife has on her Giant offer a stronger bite. Modulation is not an issue with the Shimano. They bite hard so you have to use a gentile finger. Smile With the Guide, I feel like I have to reef on the lever to get it to do what I want. Wouldn't buy them for a build (they came on the bike). At some point I'll be replacing with XT or other.
  • 10 5
 Guides are atrocious
  • 4 2
 @mollow: Just look at all those stuck Guide lever warranties (mine included)...

SRAM drivetrains, Shimano brakes for me!
  • 2 0
 I thought that was funny too.
  • 3 13
flag mollow (Aug 2, 2018 at 8:47) (Below Threshold)
 @BaeckerX1: that's why I specified their updated version, you should try to understand what you're reading mate...

@Poulsbojohnny: I had XTs before that and their reliability is atrocious. At least two bleeds a month, leaked from the levers, had to replace a hose. I never said they didn't have enough modulation. I will say that again; anyone saying Guides suck hasn't set them up properly...
  • 9 1
 @mollow: So by your logic, they release a ton of new brakes that the levers stick when they get in hot weather, and then they release a new model that fixes that issue, so I shouldn't hate on Guide brakes...

That's like saying if I bought a 2017 model car and it was a piece of shit that broke down all the time, I shouldn't be salty toward the company, just buy a new car, right? They fixed it for 2018, no biggie!

Sometimes you only get one shot to earn consumer confidence. Not to mention local and online shops aren't always upfront about what model year you're buying when it comes to bike parts since they want to get rid of old stock first. Unless you know what you're looking for, you might end up with the older model anyway.
  • 1 0
 I did an experiment where I'm running Level levers with Code calipers. AMAZING!!!!
  • 2 1
 @Poulsbojohnny:

A gentile finger? I am Jewish. Does that mean I can't use Shimano brakes? No matter... I put Hope brakes on my MTB.
  • 1 9
flag mollow (Aug 2, 2018 at 9:19) (Below Threshold)
 @BaeckerX1: that's extrapolating at its finest lmao, sure man you're right! Whatever keep dissing something you haven't tried
  • 5 0
 @mollow: You forgot I got new brakes under warranty, so I have tried them. I have lots of SRAM and Rockshox stuff, I just am not a huge fan of the Guides. The only reason they're still on one of my bikes is because they came with the bike and they're internally routed. I haven't bothered to replace them yet. I wanted to warranty them and give them a fair shake first. I still prefer Shimano, and their bleeding process as well. That's my personal opinion and I am entitled to it. Smile You ride whatever you want.
  • 1 0
 www.instagram.com/p/Bl3Fq6uFUfY/?taken-by=envecomposites

Saw this posted on Envecomposites INSTAGRAM M7 and stem on the trail. If I get to ride like this, I'm in!
  • 5 4
 @mollow: He's right. Guides can't hold a candle to Shimano brakes. If you like them great, but it's very well established that Guides are pretty low on the brake heirarchy.
  • 2 6
flag makripper (Aug 3, 2018 at 9:15) (Below Threshold)
 @TheRaven: sorry but no. I've had terrible luck with the last 2 gens of saints. Waiting on a redesign. Until then, I might go code. Mid range Shimano punches way above it's belt but there isn't a perfect brand put there.
  • 5 1
 @makripper: Never said anything about a perfect brake.

That said, it's not up for debate. There's wide ranging consensus on brakes at this point.
  • 2 6
flag mollow (Aug 3, 2018 at 9:39) (Below Threshold)
 @TheRaven: not up for debate lol. Really open minded aren't you? Gtfoh if you don't want to argue
  • 1 0
 @TheRaven: lol! Yeah it's up for debate. Lots of Shimano gear sucks and lots of people don't like it. I run Shimano on some bikes, sram on others. They both blow for different reasons. So yes. It's 100% up for debate. I'm actually considering tektros new stuff at this point.
  • 1 1
 @makripper: Brakes. Not "Shimano gear". Brakes.
  • 1 0
 @TheRaven: I'm talking about brakes. You are still wrong. Don't worry.
  • 1 1
 @makripper: Not worried about what a tiny minority of riders think.

Actually i'm not worried about what the majority of riders think either. I just happen to agree with them in this case.
  • 1 0
 @TheRaven: then why are you commenting?
  • 1 0
 @makripper: Sheer boredom. Raining too hard to ride.
  • 1 0
 I switch between Guides and SLX on my two bikes. When I go back to slx I have to recalibrate my braking finger to avoid over braking up front. The power difference with the same rotor size is huge.
  • 50 17
 $280 for a stem! F-you ENVE, honestly give me one reason i should spend 100 extra on top of all the great already overpriced stems on the market. This is just stupid
  • 37 12
 Because it can break and kill you, you have to assemble super careful with carbon paste etc. Just so many benefits...
  • 12 39
flag seraph (Aug 2, 2018 at 0:50) (Below Threshold)
 If you're chasing grams, there's no better option than the Enve carbon stem.
  • 39 10
 @seraph: erm, not really, carbon bar and stem combos are lighter and betters. Then a few companies do lighter alu stems. Nevertheless each one of them begs for Golden certificate for misallocation of attention and resources. Since we have youtube channels like “Is it a good idea to microwave this” and “ Will it blend” maybe Enve along with some German brands could do a show called “what else can we make from carbon and still sell it”. Spoiler alert: the season ends with composite bolts and the program leader dies.
  • 14 9
 I guess you also complain about some supercars costing serveral times as much as other already pretty much decent cars. It's not for everyone and the higher the price point is, the less you're getting benefits with your money. Also from what I have seen, ENVE puts a LOT more effort into testing and development than most other companies, which exorbitantly raises the expenses which they put into a single product, which they have to make up when they sell it. For the bar you should also consider that they'll have you fully covered if you manage to damage it, as long as you're installing everything appropriately.
  • 16 4
 Because dentists don't want to break their own teeth.
  • 4 3
 @seraph: until it breaks on a hard G-out like my buddies...
  • 6 1
 So when you sell your bike to me in a year or two, I can make enough money selling the bar and stem to buy a new drivetrain?
  • 7 5
 @Highclimber: can we stop compearing bikes to cars please?

1. Tax on sportscars are way way higher than on normal cars
2. A stem is a stem... Nothing really hard to manufacture. A high reving engine , Transmission and maybe Carbon chassis onw the other hand...

I could go on but you get my point
  • 2 1
 @Highclimber: That might make sense if decent cars performed as well as supercars. There are any number of aluminum bar/stem combos that are as good as these AND don't cost nearly as much. I'll argue they're even better...b/c aluminum doesn't generally snap at unfortunate times.
  • 1 2
 @NotNamed: unlucky that you get a higher tax for higher performance cars...we hit luxury tax at some point but there are plenty of sports cars below that threshold.

As to the Enve stem...this is a thing of beauty and it is definitely a splurge item. Get ahold of one and really look it over. As an engineer, it is lust-worthy.

I work with a guy who added enve bar and stem combos to 2 of his MTB’s after more than a year of riding original builds. Sometimes, there just isn’t anywhere else to upgrade a bike and you get the itch to do something to keep your bike fresh. Kind of like buying nice lingerie.
  • 3 0
 @Highclimber: True, but a supercar will make me go faster than you. This won't. Smile
  • 1 0
 @projectnortheast: I'm not worried about my 35mm stem breaking. There isn't enough carbon in between the clamps to flex and fatigue.
  • 2 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I'd be interested to see if you can produce an aluminum 35mm long stem with a 31.8mm clamp that weighs less than the Enve stem does.
  • 2 0
 @seraph: what about the Intend Grace EN? 82/85 g depending on the bar diameter, and no compromises.

www.intend-bc.com/products/stems/grace-en
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I just want to know for my new Norco Optic XCish trail bike - do I put RaceFace Turbine stem + NextSL handlebar (both 35mm diam) or Syntace Megaforce + Vector 31.8 x 760? Or another? I need a 65-70mm stem + ~760-765mm bars. Thanks in advance
  • 2 0
 @seraph: intend Grace trail stem comes at 87g in 50mm. Then Syntace Megaforce and Warp 40 stem come very close. Anything under 100g is f*cking light. As to intend stem, it is a choice of Gustav Dangerholm, owner of world’s lightest bikes (he was presenting his Scott Scales here) and he still uses no nonsense components. A genuine dork could try to beat him by a few grams by using some useless gram cutting solutions.
  • 2 0
 @someslowguy: I’d go for Syntace just because it’s made in Germany and imhonit looks better Smile
  • 34 1
 A $280 stem that looks about as exciting as a $25 stem from Halfords
  • 1 1
 Says the person who's bike literally looks like it was designed by a caribou
  • 22 0
 Why use carbon for the stem? My aluminium 40mm stem is about the same weight (90g) certified for enduro use and about 1/3 of the price of this Enve stem.

Is it a compliance thing?

Is it just for the bling factor? If that is the case, then I totally get it.
  • 18 3
 Because its frigging carbon ma duudee Goes well with my Yeti and Land Rover
  • 4 1
 Curious which stem you are using? I have the Turbine R 35 40mm length with ti bolts and its 124 gr.
  • 3 0
 @MikeAzBS: I have a Newmen Sl 4 Bolt stem. German engineering ftw.
  • 18 0
 Carbon bars are great because they are not so stiff. So why make them stiff!
  • 19 6
 Emperors new clothes infused with snake oil hardened in a room of smoke and mirrors!!! Oh sorry, it’s my tourette again, don’t pay attention to what I say.
  • 3 1
 Personally find Renthal alu Fatbars too stiff. God knows how stiff these things are. Don't know if it's the Vibrocore, but Spank's feel much better.
  • 4 7
 @LemonadeMoney: alu fatbar is way too stiff, but Remthal fatbar lite in 31.6 is best feeling handlebar that I have ever put my hands one. I just rode CandyRay var and must say that I am changing my mind about carbon bars. They can be compliant indeed. I just don’t want to go through th mine field of bars and carbon products in general that are too stiff, too brittle since people will buy anything just because it’s carbon. Nobody will tell me that people don’t buy premium products for the sake of them being premium. They do believe in th increase in performance too, but well, that’s just a belief, since they cannot measure the results.
  • 15 2
 @WAKIdesigns: "... don't pay attention to what I say."

Ok.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Yeah I had the Lite and liked it, but too narrow for me now. I bought the Fatbar as I wanted the Lite feel but wider.
  • 2 1
 Not just stiff, but so stiff you are advised not to cut them down to a width that is actually useable...
  • 2 0
 This point confused me. The whole point is that lovely carbon vibration absorption that it provides. You could get a TI bar or good AL bar with the same stiffness. And if this is DH specific, who cares about the weight?
  • 1 0
 @LemonadeMoney: For my 205lb frame without gear, I find the Renthal Al just about right at 800mm for stiffness. Although, I do hear good things about the Spanks. If I had the means, I’d love to do some A-B testing of both.
  • 4 0
 I dabbled in the 35 clamp bar/stems and found them too damn stiff and am back on 31.8. Much better feel for me.
  • 14 1
 I want this company www.pinkbike.com/news/fasst-company-announces-flexx-handlebar.html and Enve to fight over who has the right idea about bars. Literally.
  • 31 0
 A MTB debate video series! That would be incredibly entertaining.

Handlebar stiffness: ENVE vs. Fasst

Frame stiffness: Pivot vs. Starling

Bike travel & geometry: @mikelevy vs. @paulaston

Just because: @WAKIdesigns vs. @protour
  • 7 0
 @MTBrent: Waki vs Protour would be so far more entertaining that a football worldcup!
  • 10 1
 Just wait until next year when it costs 500$!

You buy ENVE stuff because you can’t just go around yelling “MY SALARY IS 300 THOUSAND DOLLARS” and most mountain bikers have no idea how much a Patek costs.
  • 16 1
 My salary isn't anywhere near that high and I bought these bars some time ago. I don't care about the enve name as much as I did their far superior crash replacement policy and the fact I can initiate it myself. The price on their bars really isn't that far off for carbon, either.

I crashed hard on a set of RF bars, I wanted to replace them. They apparently have a crash replacement policy but my LBS wasn't aware of it, the other shop I consulted said it's 20% off. So I'm paying ~$140 (depending on where you look) for the bars and I'll get ~$20-$30 off if I crash on them, that's if the shop is willing to request it.

Renthal, you are SOL on broken bars, they don't have a crash replacement policy.

So I paid an extra $30 over the Raceface bars so that when/if I'm no longer confident in the bars because of an accident, I'm either covered by Enve's policy entirely or, worst case, I pay 50% of the cost ($85) to replace them. That was worth the added $30 to me.

TBH, $170 for bars isn't that unreasonable. There are bars on the Santa Cruz site that are the same price, Raceface isn't far off, Renthals are $150. The stem, yea, I'll agree and it isn't for me, but the bars are reasonable and their crash replacement + support is better than any of the others.
  • 4 8
flag wibblywobbly (Aug 2, 2018 at 6:28) (Below Threshold)
 @shinook: I’ll be honest. Had no idea Race Face had a crash replacement policy. And the stories I’ve heard about ENVE and their wheels I won’t have much faith in the turning around a bar fast.

I guess I’m the big baller because when ever I have crash had on my carbon bars I’ve just taken the L, bought new ones and sold the old ones to someone on Craigslist as only being mounted and that I didn’t like the color.

Seriously though, I’m going to go try and crash replace like three bars now.
  • 1 0
 @wibblywobbly: like he said You'll get 20-30$ off lol, might as well wait for a sale at that point.
  • 5 0
 @wibblywobbly: Buyer beware. Gulp.
  • 2 0
 @shinook: I also find ENVE bars to be competitively priced with other carbon bars. I have the M6 version for those that want 780's and they are perfect. Like you not sure I would drop the coin for the stem though, even at wholesale price. My Renthal stem works just fine and is just as light
  • 2 0
 @shinook: most reasonable comment in pb history
  • 9 1
 So lets get this straight, make a handlebar that is so stiff you shouldnt cut it down to a width that is actually useable?

The majority of racers run sub 780mm bars, thats DH and Enduro, this isnt an opinion it is fact, there are of course some that run wider but these are the exception not the norm.

The same goes for most 'normal' riders - not many want to run an 800mm bar on a non-dh specific bike, and even then most dont.
  • 4 0
 Bigger is better thats why I run 820mm bars with 30mm extenders
  • 3 0
 @mollow: a few years ago now, a company made 900mm or 1000mm bars as a joke. We are getting closer and closer to that joke all the time
  • 1 0
 @makripper: haha didn't know that, the guy was a visionary!
  • 9 0
 Wheels made in USA. All other parts in Taïwan.......
  • 1 1
 Yep! it says a shipment of 200 bars a shipment from CHINA lots of dingle-berries in the comments here like to say hey guys this stuff is expensive because it is usa made stuff
  • 3 0
 @englertracing: Literally nobody in here is saying that
  • 8 1
 An article on stiff handlebars without the mention of arm pump seems incomplete to me.
  • 5 2
 It's funny how many people are whining about the prices. Good lord, have you seen how much a complete set of ENVE wheels costs? And you see those things EVERYWHERE. The people who can buy the wheels will probably not even think twice about the price of that stem or handlebar. And that stuff will sell. Everything that ENVE cranks out gets sold.
  • 2 0
 So I haven't seen any comment about someone actually running these new bars.....


I have the M9(Cromag AL stem) on my Firebird. After snapping my POS Raceface bars when my bike fell over.....Yes....FELL. OVER. These new bars are like butter. I am running them at full 810mm but will likely cut them back to 795-800 soon. The reviewer kind of nailed it. They are extremely exacting in their feel, but not buzzy. My race face bar felt like an overcooked noodle in comarision. I dig it.
  • 2 0
 Everything mnb cost more than it should....we just love the sport and buck up for many over priced parts to ride and enjoy our time out there Make a list and tell someone who does not bike what things cost....they would have a laugh at most of us and what we have paid. I have no problems spending money on bikes and parts....riding is the best time ever. But we do have budgets and people who complain about everything
  • 2 0
 This argument that I see over and over again in these comments, “I can’t afford it, or wouldn’t pay for it, or couldn’t perceive any benefit, and I like these bars and this stem, so ENVE is absurd and a bunch of crooks!”, is ridiculous. Ride the bar and stem that you like, people! You already have your solution to the problem that ENVE stuff is too expensive for your taste. Just stop making it out to be their fault. If someone wants to buy a $280 stem, that is up to them, just as it is up to you to not buy it.

It is bizarre to watch a bunch of people who ride bikes that cost more than half of the world earns in a year complaining about a company making a BIKE PART that they don’t like the price of. Everything we spend on our bikes is disposable income. I would be a less happy individual without my bike, but I would survive, and what I pay for that enjoyment is purely disposable income that I prioritize.

Stop prioritizing bashing products you have no intention of buying, and companies that make the best they can for those that want the best and appreciate the qualities exacted in their products, and go ride whatever bar/stem combo you enjoy! If it turns out ENVE is making their stems out of golden retriever puppies, then I will be the first to jump on the ENVE is evil bandwagon. Until then, stop trying to dumb down the industry.
  • 6 1
 ALU bars and stem for life ...... !!!!
  • 1 0
 Finally someone said it! All of these fugazes talking all of their carbon mumbo jumbo!
  • 2 1
 $450 USD for a bar & stem LoLoLoLoL The price of the bar is in line with other carbon bars I've seen, but damn near $300 for a stem is ridiculous. Fools and there money are easily parted.

There appears to be no markings on either the stem or bar for alignment/fit adjustments. Nice touch! Guess the added cost of printing that stuff on would have eaten to much into their profit margins?
  • 1 0
 I was born and raised in Ogden City Utah. I haven’t lived there in over 20 years. I’m poor but I work hard and save. I buy as much Enve as I can. Never had a problem. I’m just proud to come from a cool spot. Great snow, great bike stuff and Three O’Clock High.
  • 2 0
 @casman86: Exactly, plus when transporting bike, shuttling etc. you're not always in control how the bike is handled, or aware of all the hits it gets.
  • 3 0
 On the opposite side of the spectrum you find Spank and vibrocore foam in 31.8. That would be my approach for the long haul.
  • 4 0
 if you are a Pinkbike employee...you are Enve's target market.
  • 3 0
 I don't get why the stems cost almost twice as much as the bars. I'm assuming it takes a lot more labor hours?
  • 1 1
 I agree that the price of ENVE products are very high but their service is pretty good. I no longer run their wheels after going through a few sets but still run their bar, stem and seatpost. Currently I run Nox wheels and very happy with them, especially with their customer service team.
  • 2 2
 When spending that money, 'pretty good' service is not good enough frankly.
  • 2 1
 I have NEVER ever thought or heard ANYONE says "my carbon bar is too flexy " In fact its always been the exact opposite !Makes you wonder if the guys at ENVE actually ride bikes ?

and that price ?
  • 1 1
 I had to get rid of my ENVE mountain stem because of the NOISE it made. I just could not get it to stop creaking. Mounted a Chromag aluminum stem and problem solved. Waste of my money. There's nothing I hate more than 'noise' coming from my bike. Now my Evil is super quiet front and rear. Be warned.
  • 2 0
 I'm a fan of the old riser bar and if the new ones are close or better I'll love them. They are a fantastic and really deaden trail chatter.
  • 3 1
 think about that, after every crash you can replce this bar or continue to ride with the stress of it breaking......
  • 9 1
 That's exactly why I can't run them. Is that a scratch, a stress riser, or a crack? Only the X-ray machine knows. Your LBS will always say 'Replace it!'
  • 2 1
 @iamamodel: CANT UPVOTE MORE
  • 1 0
 just got my m7 bar installed last night, quick ride on backyard trail they feel really good. ill see how they are after a full ride this weekend
  • 3 0
 Not the best looking stem ever
  • 3 0
 I came here just for the comments about the stem
  • 3 0
 Dentist requested this. So stiff it will knock your fillings out.
  • 4 0
 Carbon stem? No thanks.
  • 3 0
 Cut down that friggin steer tube!
  • 2 0
 $450 for a bar and stem? LMAO,I guess my dad was right all along...... there is one born every minute.
  • 1 0
 Using deity carbon bar in my smuggler. It looks great but no noticeable difference from my alu rf bar. Still getting renthal carbon bars for my next commencal bike.
  • 17 17
 Why would anyone want a carbon bar? I've known more than one person that have broken enve bars revealing carbon splinters of death.
  • 20 3
 And I haven't so I stick to my Sixc. Anything can break depending on your riding.
  • 6 17
flag Matt76 (Aug 2, 2018 at 1:03) (Below Threshold)
 I certainly wouldnt risk it. Despite what the science and the brainwashed say about it.
  • 20 7
 "Why would anyone want a carbon bar?" - Enve makes you want it becasue they need to earn money, that's why. Like most consumption on this planet happens - it is not really driven by consumer demand, it is driven by greed (sometimes called capitalism). Invent something, market it and people will want it - think fidget spinner.
  • 3 4
 @lkubica: Very good point
  • 10 0
 I'll stick with Renthal carbon bar, perfect flex
  • 12 2
 They offer noticeable reduction in vibration at same or greater level of stiffness. My carbon fat bars are still going strong after nearly 3 years and an infinite number of crashes, and I'm not light by any stretch of the imagination.
  • 12 0
 Also, carbon is a highly addictive substance.
  • 2 0
 @fracasnoxteam: +1 to that
  • 15 1
 Why would anyone want an alloy bar? I've known more than one person that had alu bar snapped in half on both road bikes and MTB.
  • 3 6
 @lp130i: How do you manage to snap a bar on a road bike??? Unless a crash is involved I suppose.
  • 1 0
 @lkubica: Good analysis, and it be extended any business.
Commencal for instance are no saints, they know there is a market for Al bikes, and they know by pushing hard on the communication around "how Al frame are [insert positive argument]" they can get those juicy $$. Do they just update the V3 to V4 because it is faster and so they can make the world a better place? lol, but the improved performance means there is // they can create demand for it.
But truth is, this is a universal law. Want recycling to be widespread? Find a way to make money // business model around it or else nobody will ever want the hassle of setting up a system/network/business that will not be sustainable in time.
  • 10 0
 My current bar snap count... Alloy: 3. Carbon: 0. Caveat: 20 years of riding alloy bars, 6 of carbon.
  • 11 0
 @bigtim: Do you think you could report back in 4-6 years?
  • 1 0
 I run an ENVE Sweep on my HT for a lil extra flex and dampening. I'd like carbon bars on my road bike but they are more complicated thus more expensive.
  • 1 2
 @Kamba6: the "carbon == magic vibration damping without flex" thing is such BS. I've ridden many carbon bars. They absorb vibration by flexing, just like alloy, and their stiffness varies wildly by brand and model. Some are too flexy for my tastes, some are too stiff and harsh without any flex at all, a few are just right. Overall alloy offers more consistent flex and comfort in the sweet spot.
  • 2 3
 @lp130i: if we're talking road bikes, many riders in the pro peloton use aluminum cockpits on their bikes because of the risk of carbon components breaking in a crash...that really says it all when it comes to carbon cockpits, methinks.
  • 2 0
 @dthomp325: I never said it's magic. I could certainly feel the difference between renthal aluminium and carbon bars on the exact same bike for the same bar width. Also, flex is not the only factor determining the ability to absorb vibration. Material density and construction also have a lot to do with it.
  • 2 1
 I don’t like grabbing a stiff one in my hand, it hurts my wrists!! I do however love it stiff out back!
  • 2 1
 We need @vernonfelton back as a guest to complete a full series of ENVE reviews (and proper take downs).
  • 1 0
 Is the enve bar replacement only for the m7 or for older bars such as the rsr. Asking for a friend
  • 2 0
 Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
  • 2 0
 Bar and stem on them pics are worth more than the brakes!
  • 2 0
 TFW you spend so much on bars, you have to get Guide Rs
  • 2 1
 $450 US for a bar and stem Eek you could buy a Raceface, Easton, chromag or syncros set for 200-250 less
  • 2 0
 for anyone wanting a tingling or numb sensation in your wrists and hands.
  • 5 7
 If companies listened to all the pink bike bitching we’d still be riding quick release 26 inch bikes with v brakes and 70 degree head angles. GT, mongoose, and specialized would be our only options. Sorry you can’t afford stuff, please stfu!
  • 2 1
 This comment needs more upvotes
  • 3 0
 HA!
  • 1 0
 Even normal stems are already overpriced, who needs cnc precision for the stem body
  • 4 5
 Did a 7th grader write this article? “but Enve don't recommended cutting the bar any shorter than 780mm because it will further increase its stiffness and create a poor ride quality. “
  • 2 0
 a stem for over $300.00CDN and it's not a Renthal.


not on my watch.
  • 3 1
 I dont understand how ENVE even stays in business.
  • 3 1
 "My 35mm dia carbon bar isn't stiff enough"

Said no one.
  • 2 1
 When you have to pretend that each piece in the layup of the stem is an individual 'part' to justify the ridiculous price.
  • 2 0
 not a fan of the sternum breaker spacers above the stem !! hahahaha!
  • 1 0
 Saw an ENVE MTB carbon stem in the local LBS 5 years ago...guess what, still sitting there!
  • 1 0
 I'm an ENVE fan. When is your MTN Fork gonna go BOOST? I want one. Please go 480 crown to axle
  • 1 0
 Anyone else notice that these Enve bars are actually made in China? I was surprised when I saw that sticker on the box...
  • 1 0
 And I thought I was a big spender with my alu burgtec bar and stem...
  • 1 0
 What was that race recently where the Enve bar snapped ?
  • 1 0
 450$ for cock(pit)? GTFO! :]
  • 1 0
 Hmm... Ultra-Stiff and ENVE in the same title, who would have thunk it...
  • 1 0
 and 1 crash will get you another 450$ bar/stem bill
  • 1 0
 nothing sexier than some enves with guide r strapped to them
  • 1 0
 Truvativ bar 40 bucks Truvativ stem 50 bucks enough said
  • 1 0
 Burgtec all day....
  • 1 0
 too spensive for me!
  • 10 12
 Just say no to carbon handlebars and definitely don't ever decide a carbon stem is a good idea.
  • 6 1
 You did the maths?
  • 9 3
 Yes to carbon bars (we've been doing it since the late 90s) and yes to carbon stems.
  • 9 8
 @seraph: You like having to replace your bars every time you crash or your bike falls over in the garage? You're Enve's target market. Mystery solved.
  • 5 4
 Agree!!
  • 6 2
 @casman86: Personally I change my Schmolke (Even is for peasants) carbon bar after each session, you never know what happens. And when it rains I make sure to pack a change as well, better safe than sorry.
The frame is a bit more robust and it can resist a fall in the garage, or me dropping my gloves on it.
Sadly though, my Tune Condord is good for the bin each time I fart, carbon is so brittle it can't handle the shockwave and the structural integrity of the item might be altered.
  • 3 0
 ENVE DH stem and 808 Minnaar Bar. Lots of use, plenty of crashes and still going strong.
  • 1 0
 @krumpdancer101: And more than likely replaced after every crash. Dont be fooled!
  • 1 0
 @Matt76: No fooling here. I wish I had that sort of cash. Said I have the Minnaar bar not that I was Greg.
  • 3 0
 @casman86: No because unlike you I understand how carbon components are made. I ride an Enve bar and stem on my 5010 and they hold up just fine.
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