Review: Hope's UK-Made HB.130 Trail Bike

Jan 6, 2020
by David Arthur  



After some 20 years of making hubs and disc brakes, Hope spread its wings and flourished into a full-fledged bike brand with the launch of the HB.160 in 2017. Eyebrows were certainly raised when Hope declared it was going to branch out into carbon manufacturing and make the bikes at its Barnoldswick, Lancashire factory, but the investment hasn't been an extravagant indulgence, and the hard work has paid off.

The latest addition is the HB.130, a seriously good looking bike with top quality construction that is impressive given how new to carbon the British company is.

Hope HB.130

Travel: 130mm rear/140mm front
Wheel size: 29"
Frame construction: Carbon main frame, alloy swingarm
Suspension: Four bar with flip-chip adjustment
Sizes: M, L, XL
Weight: L w/o pedals 31.1lb (14.1kg)
Price: $8,400 USD
More info: www.hopetech.com
The HB.130 is a 29” trail bike with 130mm of rear wheel travel coupled to a 140mm travel fork, adjustable geometry via a flip-chip, and a four-bar suspension layout. A complete bike specced with top-end SRAM, Fox and Hope components goes for $8,400 USD, or you can buy the frameset including shock, hubs, headset, bottom bracket and seat clamp for $4,950. There are also some possible upgrade options available, including Santa Cruz Reserve rims laced to Pro 4 hubs, a SRAM AXS wireless groupset, Hope Evo Cranks, or an Ohlins TTX22M coil shock.


bigquotesIt was precise through the slow-speed corners and I was able to point the front wheel where I wanted it to go easily; as the speed ramped up it displayed awesome stability to let you tuck in and barrel through the faster sections." David Arthur







Hope HB130 Review


Construction and Features

Like the original HB.160, this new bike has a front triangle made from carbon fiber manufactured at Hope’s facility in Barnoldswick. It’s all part of the company’s ambitious plan to expand into the world of composites, which started with a handlebar a few years ago and now includes the radical British Cycling Lotus track bike too. If you haven’t seen that yet, take a moment to go check it out.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but this is a lovely looking frame. It’s smooth and curved in the right places, and I love the fact the carbon hasn’t been painted over. Instead, you can revel in its raw beauty and admire the quality of workmanship on show here.

Hope has managed to shed about 100g from the front triangle compared to the HB.160 because of lessons learned along the way and because of the intended purpose of the new bike. While the front end is carbon fiber, Hope went with machined aluminum for the swingarm, utilizing the company’s extensive experience in CNC machining. The various components of the rear stays are machined and then bonded together, which Hope says creates a super strong rear triangle.

hope hb130

The HB.130 has a few features that show Hope’s desire and ability to design a bike from the ground up. The first is a 130mm rear hub spacing with a 17mm diameter axle. Hope wanted to create a symmetrically spoked rear wheel that would be stronger and stiffer, with the oversize axle contributing to the stiffness, so they decided to go with this spacing rather than the more common Boost standard. Side benefits include less risk of snagging the rear mech in a rock garden and more heel clearance.

Also proprietary is the bottom bracket, which uses an M46 thread with a 30mm spindle. Since Hope manufactures its own bottom brackets, support for aftermarket cranks shouldn’t be a problem with spacer kits and so on. All cables and hoses are internally routed in the carbon frame and external along the swingarm. The bottom of the down tube has a rubber protector and there’s a rubber guide along the drive-side chainstay acting as a noise reducer and cable tidy. The last few details include an integrated chain guide and external seat clamp on the dropper post friendly seat tube.


Hope HB130 Review


Hope HB130 Review
Intricately machined aluminum rear triangle.
Hope HB130 Review
Space for a water bottle.


Geometry & Sizing

hb130

The HB.160 seemed to get a bit of flak for its geometry being too conservative, so Hope's designers spent loads of time dialling the geometry of the HB.130. They came up with numbers that are modern but not extreme, and they do look to be more on the money than the original HB.160 when it launched. The main sticking point might be the limited size range, with only medium, large and XL options currently available.

The reach figure extends from 455 to 495mm with a 66-degree head angle and 75.7-degree seat angle in the low setting, with a 1214mm wheelbase, 435mm chainstays and -39.5mm bottom bracket drop.

Suspension Design

The HB.130 uses a four-bar arrangement just like the original HB.160, with the main change being the shock attached to the top tube rather than the down tube to provide space for a bottle cage. Hope has used a metric shock with a 50mm stroke shock. While the suspension closely mirrors that developed for the 160, Hope has tweaked this new bike to favor better pedalling performance.

The flip-chip not only adjusts the geometry, but it also changes the suspension leverage curve, making it more progressive. It’s the opposite in the high setting. The low setting also lowers the bottom bracket and slackens the head angle. The 130mm rear wheel travel is paired with a 140mm travel suspension fork with a 44mm offset.

I can see harder-hitting ridings wanting even more progression from the rear suspension, and thankfully adding bigger volume reducing tokens to the Fox shock is five minutes work. I stuck with the stock setup because I loved the super plush nature; it worked for my weight and riding style and i got on well with the peppy characteristic the suspension displayed. There's space for a coil shock with the Ohlins TTX22 offered as an upgrade option.





Hope HB130 Review

hope hb130
The leverage ratio showing the difference between high and low flip-chip settings.



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Specifications

Specifications
Release Date 2019
Price $8400
Travel 130mm
Rear Shock Fox DPX2 Factory 3 Positon Factory Metric
Fork Fox 36 Factory 140mm Grip 2, 44 Offset
Headset Hope HB.130
Cassette Sram XO1 12sp
Crankarms Sram XO1 12sp
Chainguide Hope
Rear Derailleur Sram XO1 12sp
Chain Sram XO1 12sp
Front Derailleur N/A
Shifter Pods Sram XO1 12sp
Handlebar Hope Carbon 780x20mm
Stem Hope AM 35/50
Grips Hope SL Black
Brakes Hope Tech 3 E4
Wheelset Hope HB Pro4 On Fortus 26
Hubs Hope HB Pro4 On Fortus 26
Tires Front Minion DHF 2.5WT 3C Maxx Terra, Rear Minion DHR 2.3 3C EXO TR
Seat SDG Radar HB Logo
Seatpost Fox Transfer 125mm/150mm

Hope HB130 Review












Test Bike Setup

This is a bike designed for trail riding, so that’s what it was used for, riding as many trails in and around my patch with regular excursions to far-flung trails around the UK to test its mettle. Testing included visits to the bike park and local downhill spot just to push its limits.

Hope recommended 20% fork sag and 25% shock sag for all-day riding, going up to 30% for “riding the gnar” with the Fox recommended settings. All sensible advice, and the Fox suspension guidelines are a good starting point. I experimented with sag and in the end settled on halfway between, about 28% rear sag.

I felt comfortable on the size large bike with a good reach to the handlebars for long days in the saddle. Hope supplied two stem lengths, 50 and 35mm to provide fine-tuning of the fit. After some experimentation, I settled on the shorter stem as the best all-round fit and feel. The pictured bike has a standard spec, but Hope can adjust the parts to fit.

Merida Big Trail
David Arthur // Technical Editor
Age: 39
Location: Gloucestershire, UK
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 150 lbs
Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Instagram: @davidjarthur

Hope HB130 Review

Climbing

Some trail bikes lean towards descending prowess but can feel lethargic on tamer trails, while some might be brilliant climbers but out of depth in the rough. The HB.130 hits the sweet spot, and gets the balance just right. What most struck me is how playful this bike at any speed, fast or slow, with a pleasing level of agility that really lets you hustle it along the trail.

Weighing in at about 31 pounds, it’s already on the back foot compared to what you might expect for a trail bike in the category and price, but the specification is a clear indication Hope has traded in some gravity-defying weight-saving components for burliness. Yet that weight doesn’t feel like a huge handicap, and there’s still a decent sense of urgency when you get rampant on the pedals on a steep climb. You won’t feel like an XC champ on long fire road drags, but get onto anything technically challenging and the HB.130 plays its trump card.

The active suspension lets you tank up anything covered with roots, rocks or other obstacles, with more than enough traction to deal with anything you might encounter on a trail ride. I’ve got loads of tricky little climbs where traction and agility are paramount to cleaning sections, and the HB.130 had all the right qualities to help me clear these challenges time and again. It might not be the quickest to the summit, but you’ll have more fun cleaning the technical climbs that will have other bikes stumped.

On bumpy and rough climbs the suspension works great in the open mode, but on smoother climbs I was reaching for the shock's compression lever. The suspension is on the more active side of things, and unless your pedalling is buttery smooth you can induce a fair amount of pedal bob. Settle into a rhythm and concentrate on smooth pedalling circles and it calms down nicely. Better yet, make use of the compression lever on the Fox can and it calms down a load more.

Hope HB130 Review

Descending

It’s abundantly clear if you’ve been reading PB bike reviews for the past handful of years that trail bikes are getting incredibly capable when it comes to the business of descending. This is where the HB.130 shines - the suspension, geometry and equipment let you blaze some blistering lines on your favorite descents and reap the rewards of battling gravity on the previous climb.

On the descents it’s a case of just enough: just enough suspension travel, just enough slackness and length in the geometry, just enough weight, to produce a bike that is easy to slide into corners, twist through narrow gaps, air over crests, plummet down fall lines and send off drops. It’s all the good things - sure-footed, planted and stable - that you want in a trail bike without going full-bore enduro.

I spent time with the flip-chip in high and low, settling on the slacker mode because the payback on the descents was worth the small compromise on the climbs. The biggest challenge this presented was the low bottom bracket; the cranks spin close to the ground and I clouted pedals into the ground a few times, something to be aware of rather than worried about. The upshot is cornering stability that lets you hold off the brakes longer past the point when you thought you should be scrubbing off speed before the apex.

Hope HB130 Review

The low flip-chip setting also lends a little more progression to the suspension too, which is needed if you like to push it hard on the descents. The trade-off to the overly-active suspension when climbing is that it's super plush and extremely supple when coming down the hill. The suspension is supple on all the small-sized bumps and undulations, keeping the wheel glued to the ground, and it’s very forgiving on bigger impacts, whether landing off a drop or slamming into an Anaconda sized tree root. I regularly used all the travel but never noticed a slam dunk bottom out.

The bike displays a high level of stiffness too. I certainly couldn’t detect any wag from the skinny swingarm and the carbon frame feels taut when you’re pedalling as hard as you can or slamming into corners. The high-quality components, from the Fox 36 fork to the Hope brakes and Maxxis tires hit all the right notes, complementing the high-quality frame and delivering enough burliness for harder trails.

I want a trail bike to be reasonably fast on the way up, and fun and capable on the way down, and the HB.130 ticked both boxes. It’s a hugely rewarding bike giving you the ability to cover ground fast and have fun in a controlled manner when smashing down the hillside. It’s not the slackest or longest trail bike, but for me I found it the right tradeoff, with impressive descending and climbing skills. It keeps you on your toes in the best way possible and lets you exploit the tamer trails that you encounter on an all-day epic as well as the rad descents where the HB.130 shines.








How does it compare?

If you want a carbon fiber 29” trail bike but you want to save a few bucks, the value on offer from the YT Jeffsy 29 CF Pro Race is a good alternative, with an entire bike costing not much more than the entire HB.130 bike. The Jeffsy has a full carbon frame and carries a bit more travel between its 29” wheels with a reasonably similar set of geometry numbers that gives similar handling, but the rear suspension is noticeably more progressive out of the box compared to the HB.130.

Another keenly priced alternative is the Radon Slide Trail 10.0 I recently tested, which gets an all-star cast of top-end components on a carbon mainframe. It’s not as good looking, but it’s highly competent with only the high-ish weight and short reach the main detractions on an otherwise impressive package.


Hope HB130 Review

Hope HB130 Review
Hope HB130 Review


Technical Report

Hope Tech 3 E4 brakes: Hope brakes have long been popular, and these are a worthy alternative to more mainstream choices. They’re like the Race Evo E4 brakes I reviewed but the aluminum levers have easily adjustable stroke and bite point adjustment. I like being able to dial in the feel of the brake levers without needing any tools, and the braking performance is top-notch.

Hope Fortus 26 rims on Pro 4 hubs: Hope justifiably built its reputation on high-quality hubs and these are no exception, spinning smoothly on sealed bearings with a fast engaging freehub. It was my first ride on Hope’s new Fortus which are wider then its old rims and these proved to be very strong during testing. These were 26mm wide, but they go up to 33mm.

Fox 36 Factory Grip 2 140mm fork: It might have been tempting to perhaps fit a Fox 34 but the 36 is a top choice with a stiff chassis giving a real sense of purpose to the HB.130. The damping is supremely balanced and it’s easy to adjust with a wide range of options to suit all riders. It's an excellent match for the rear suspension.

Maxxis Minion DHF/DHR tires : What can I say about these tires that hasn't been said many times before? Stacks of grip and usable in all conditions from dusty dry to gloopy mud.


Is this the bike for you?

If you want a true all-rounder that makes reasonably light work of the climbs, is involving on tamer trails, and won’t hold you back on the descents and will let you take the tricky line, you'll love the HB.130.


Pros

+ Made in UK
+ Well balanced geometry
+ Build quality
Cons

- Proprietary bottom bracket and rear hub
- Expensive
- Some pedal bob




Pinkbike's Take
bigquotesIt’s an expensive bike, there are only three sizes, and you're tied into Hope's own rear axle design, which could all be deal-breakers. If you can live with them though, you have a 100% UK carbon trail bike that offers brilliant performance and handling that is fun and fast in equal measure and a proper rival to more mainstream choices in this category. David Arthur









312 Comments

  • 82 6
 Hope for you, Hope for me. Hope my wife does not see... the credit card bill.
  • 2 0
 hope they name the frame Hope Harper
  • 6 1
 Check out the track bike. It has more aggressive mtb geometry than this does...
  • 8 9
 31 lbs for $8400, they have a good sense of humor at least.
  • 2 1
 @jorgeposada: And what about you: did you calculate your price per pound and how much of extra weight you should deal with? What about your own geometry, stiffness, ratios?

Being focused on weight and obsessed by that is like staring at the tree that hides the forest.
  • 1 0
 @softsteel: Never, 35 years of mountain biking I have learned nothing and calculate nothing yet somehow continue to clear these massive jumps.
  • 63 13
 No one comment on the elephant in the room , over 14 kg . For a carbon ( half ) framed short travel trail bike .my Rose 150 travel trail bike is 1kg lighter and alloy . What's going on , and was 25% of the price .
  • 17 1
 There is a paragraph on it and I feel it makes good sense of the weight without making it seem unreasonably insignificant:

"Weighing in at about 31 pounds, it’s already on the back foot compared to what you might expect for a trail bike in the category and price, but the specification is a clear indication Hope has traded in some gravity-defying weight-saving components for burliness. Yet that weight doesn’t feel like a huge handicap, and there’s still a decent sense of urgency when you get rampant on the pedals on a steep climb. You won’t feel like an XC champ on long fire road drags, but get onto anything technically challenging and the HB.130 plays its trump card."
  • 13 0
 Simple. Hope's wheels, brakes and other things are not lightweight as others but they are robust
  • 17 3
 Usually an $8000 price tag means alot of lightweight parts to hit that price point. Obviously not the case here! I have a $7000 trail bike with more travel than this and it weighs 3lbs less. Not bragging, just sayin'.
  • 4 1
 @F179: that's still no reason for it to be that heavy. I guess its hard for hope to do light given all thier components are heavy
  • 6 6
 @Noeserd: Hopes brakes are actually really light.
  • 4 0
 @makkelijk: yes i checked you are right but the wheels are too damn heavy Big Grin i have fortus 30 model and it weighs something like 2400 to 2500
  • 3 0
 @Noeserd: what brakes are you referring to? Hope brakes are actually pretty darn light. Last I checked, Hope 4 pot brakes were lighter than most all Shimano 2 pot brakes!
  • 1 0
 @Noeserd: sorry, i see you replied Razz
  • 8 1
 Had to comment too. Its easy to get an enduro bike that weighs less and costs less, and by the sounds of it would climb just as well. So whats the point of this bike?
  • 2 1
 Agreed. It seems to be on the heavier side especially for the price. I was also “hoping” it would be spec’d with XTR or XT and not SRAM.
  • 6 1
 @hamncheez: looks good at the car park/coffee shop
  • 4 0
 I take a swing at the dead horse.

27.5lb 130/160 with a coil fork sitting right in front of me and it didn't cost 8k.

Pretty sure for 8k I can get an Enduro bike down to 31lbs.
  • 1 0
 @privateer-wheels: and my Piccola set weigh less then one hope brake.
  • 4 3
 @hamncheez: it's a trophy for British dentists.
  • 7 1
 Let's hope the extra weight comes from all the £10 notes stuffed into the frame. About 400 of them should do it.
  • 6 7
 ah here we go. 3 comments in and the weight weenie war begins. nailed it.
  • 7 6
 @jamesbrant: nailed what? It's a 31.5lb 130mm 8k bike should the weight not be considered.

Ok I'll have a stab..

Nailed it!! Another Canadian who probably rides 80% downhill that says weight doesn't matter.

Shocking!!
  • 5 0
 @Noeserd: If those wheels really are close to 2500g that's the whole issue right there. Even an 1800g wheelset and that thing would be 29.xx lbs and nobody would be complaining about weight.
  • 2 0
 @yupstate: fortus 26 29er : 2145g
  • 7 6
 Why is everyone worried about the weight? Let's say you weigh 150 lbs and you are comparing a 29 vs a 32 lb bike. It is a 1.6% difference. As this bike is more built to have fun on the downs I would take that extra level of burliness for that tiny handicap on the ups.
  • 7 0
 @Chris97a: 'cos it's incredibly expensive. Strong, light, cheap, etc.
  • 3 4
 @reverend27: If you ride 80% downhill that defies the laws of physics.
  • 4 2
 @Noeserd: Do you have a 115 kg robust girlfriend?
  • 4 0
 @Chris97a: I can't speak for everyone, least of all regarding this bike, but I was a bit bemused why the new Nukeproof trail bike is the same weight as the trail bike they released five years ago, made from a heavier material. Are they only just building them to the 'right' spec now? Or are the weight savings found in carbon fibre completely insignificant in a world of 29ers and dinner plate cassettes?
  • 6 5
 @fielonator:
But why are people worried about the weight at all? It doesn't matter at all unless you are competing at a really high level in cross country racing or another discipline where the time matters up the hill. Then a 1.5% difference in weight might actually matter, but you also shouldn't be on a trail bike where the kinematics of the suspension are tuned for going down anyway, so.....

I know you wouldn't be able to brag about how light your bike is, if it's a few pounds heavier, but that is the only loss for 99.99% of the customers for this bike.
  • 3 3
 @gkeele:
The wheels and tires are probably an extra pound right there, if they are the same spec tire, rims and spokes. People are able to ride harder and faster on the more modern bikes and so, often a bunch of components are at least as strong. 5 or 6 years ago bikes in the 130-140 travel category were speced with paper thin tires and rims made of cheese. That is not how most are speced anymore, so the weights are not lower than they used to be in this category.
  • 3 1
 @gkeele: Many carbon trail frames are not really much lighter than an aluminum version. Maybe a pound.
  • 14 1
 @reverend27: British dentists do exist ???
  • 2 0
 @gkeele: yes. to both. lol

30lbs seems to be the sweet spot. considerably lighter and you start breaking things. heavier, and PB bitches. lol
  • 3 0
 @Chris97a: So the wheels are bigger, we agree there. But my five year old stock wheels are going strong, my frame isn't snapped, no-one was riding trail bikes and marvelling as they buckled at the first whiff of a jump in 2013.

It seems to me like manufacturers are happy to sell the line of 'oh we build them properly now' and consumers are swallowing it whole, because they don't want to think that these hugely expensive carbon frames are pointless in the wake of a larger wheel size trend and a supposed revision of what 'trail bikes' should be capable of.
  • 4 0
 @Chris97a: it's mostly about the dynamic differences between the materials, but the difference between a 6lb frame and 7lb frame is 15%. thats far from insignificant.
  • 6 1
 @Chris97a: when i bought my Nomad last year i opted for the cheaper carbon frame. The more expensive carbon option would have been just as stiff and strong but lighter. In most cases in sport something that's lighter without compromising on strength, durability, functionality, size, or shape will lead to an enhancement in performance. Whilst i concede the point that a bike doesn't have to be very light to ride well, a reduction in weight without compromising anything else would make it better to ride for several reasons. I didn't want to pay the extra to get the lighter frame, and i love how my Nomad rides. It would be a better bike if it were lighter though.
  • 3 2
 @conoat:
I have very rarely seen a frame riding a trail by itself, but if it was possible it would be significantly faster with a 1 pound reduction. In the real world that 1 pound turns into a .5% lighter system and doesn't result in much of a performance difference based on weight.
  • 4 1
 @fielonator:
I don't know the price difference, but I think that almost everyone could spend the money saved by going for the cheaper frame on a lot of other things that could result in themselves being a faster rider than the frame could ever do for them. $500(or more?) dollars for some coaching or personal training sessions, an awesome trip to a place that pushes your progression. That is how you become faster, not a 1lb reduction in your frames weight.
  • 1 1
 @gkeele:
The frames were pretty okay 5ish years ago, but the tires and wheels, especially on the mid-range to entry level builds were awful a lot of the time. Performance non tubeless casings and single compound tires. 24mm internal, non tubeless rims made out of butter. It was pretty bad, that seems to have gotten at least a bit better in the last few years, but has made the weights go up, especially with 29" wheels.
  • 2 1
 @Chris97a: Price is too high, travel too short for the specs.
  • 2 0
 @AAAAAHHH: Shots fired!!
  • 10 1
 @Chris97a: to all the wieght does not matter people , go for a Trail ride on your 14 plus kg bike then get on a 12 kg bike , same trail
  • 6 0
 @Chris97a: That doesn't change the fact that for 8k you can build a bike that has even stronger components while still being lighter. Would be interesting to know the frame weight, but I bet it is heavier than a Giant or liteville aluminum frame.
  • 3 0
 @reverend27: Is that a jab at the state of British dental hygiene as well? If so, I applaud you.
  • 8 1
 @LeDuke: Good eye!

Jared Graves once said you build the bike with the components you need to do the job. Weight is not a concern at all. You can always make it lighter, but it will probably also make it weaker and less reliable.
Anyone saying you can get a lighter bike for less money is missing the point. This is a manufactured in the uk bike for people who want a boutique product that was not made by borderline slave labour in a Chinese factory, or by those nice hard working folks in a Taiwanese factory.
If you care about the price or value for money, it’s not for you.
  • 1 0
 Interesting they forwent their own cranks
  • 1 0
 @peleton7:
The price is high, yep.
The travel is just about right for me, I usually run a little less.(point is that the amount of travel that you want is not relevant to the design of this bike)
  • 1 0
 @Chris97a: who says it additional strength?
  • 5 0
 @jaame: Sorry, but it has been proven countless times that heavy components are often no more robust than lighter ones. Most parts are not heavy because they are strong but because they are cheaply designed or built. (or designed for looks and gimmicks rather than performance)
  • 1 0
 i got Rose in my garden :-)
  • 1 2
 @nick1957:
The only way that experiment makes sense is if you use the exact same bike and components but ride with a 3 pound weight on the same bike. Like maybe a full water bottle. A result that shows that you are slightly faster without a water bottle doesn't mean that you should try and find a way to shed weight off the bike at all cost however.

I have demoed tons of bikes and owned a 28 lb carbon Optic (110 mm 29er), 32 lb Al sight (27.5 140 mm), and am now on a 33 lb Al RSD(27.5+ 120 mm). They were/are all great, the RSD, definitely the quickest down the hill and the slowest up, but just barely and only due to suspension kinematics and slow ass DHR rear tire(slowest rear tire on any of the others was a Vittoria Morsa). How heavy were any of the demo bikes, no idea, I don't worry about it. Some were faster on the downs, like a SC Bronson, was it because it was light weight, very doubtful, probably because it was made to go fast down a hill.
  • 1 3
 @nick1957:
I just did the conversion to pounds. I would never consider trusting a 12 kg MTB(26.5 lbs). I can't imagine the compromises on part selection to get there, carbon rims, paper thin tires, a lightweight flexy fork. Perhaps if I weighed a lot less, did not ride the trails I ride and was looking for a XC bike.... Maybe that would be an acceptable weight.
  • 1 0
 @tomtom4044: Yes. But don't tell my wife.
  • 4 0
 @Ttimer: Don't think Hope components are cheaply designed or built, gimmicky and based on looks (although to be fair the do look good). They are extremely well regarded by pros and privateers. More than happy with them on my Canyon.
  • 1 0
 @Ttimer: can the same be said for tyres? Most popular tyres are available in a range of casings with weights from 700-1300g. That makes a big difference to the weight of a bike, and as can be said for rims and certainly many other parts, heavier is more reliable.
  • 2 0
 @camcoz69: I read somewhere that using sram eagle ties them into using sram cranks..so that may be why
  • 2 0
 @Chris97a: my ti hard tail is 26 pounds with twin piston brakes, DHFs, full length dropper, etc.
  • 1 0
 @Chris97a: you can , i do .granite chief of a few years ago ,first of the hydro formed tubes frames . dt swiss wheels , even got a rose carbon railed saddle. only falure were the formula brakes . now running shimano's. regular GBU runs in forest of dean including both drops.
you decide what is acceptable and not what not your being told is the norm
  • 3 0
 @reverend27: I didn't know the british had dentists
  • 1 0
 @nick1957:
I could not get away with a bike that light. I am 6'4", 205 lbs when I'm in great shape, and am not in my best shape right now. I've been riding for 30 years and have broke nearly every frame I've owned. The ones that made it away, a Transition dirt bag, my Norco Sight, and an Aluminum Honzo. I'm actually pretty easy on wheels and most other parts of the bike other than seatposts on my first full suspension bike. Can't ride anything lighter than an EXO tire in Maxxis world or super gravity in Schwalbe, ( I actually have up on Schwalbe a few years ago because of the floppiness) not for cut reasons but because of how much they flop around even at pretty high pressure. I like about 34 psi rear on a 29mm rim. Tried Conti Apex protection but the casings just tore the second the dirt wasn't wet. There is no way I would trust a 26 lb trail bike, I've only had 1 XC aluminum hardtail that was lighter than that and I broke the bb shell off the frame.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez:
Hardtails are for younger folk with less surgeries under their belt.
  • 1 0
 @nick1957:
Don't actually know why I wrote all that, as in the end, weight just doesn't matter any significant amount. It only matters if you are a top athlete competing at a national level in cross country racing. The only other place it matters is bragging rights at the shop or at the trailhead parking lot. As long as your bike is a reasonable weight( below say 34 lbs if you are a normal size person) and holds together every ride, than your fine. If you are not an aggressive rider or weigh a lot less than a lighter bike will be fine and probably hold together just fine. I've seen carbon everything Enduro bikes that I would be comfortable riding and weighed a tick over 27 lbs, I would just never be willing to pay for that, as I would gain next to nothing performance wise, for all that money.
  • 1 0
 @reverend27: well aren't you fancy!

I suppose Hope should consider stocking their bikes with Trick Stuff brakes from now on...
  • 1 0
 @privateer-wheels: they are also powered by sunflower oil and not dot.

In addition they don't require olive and Barb. The banjo threads into the hose itself.

And should be right at home on an 8k bike.
  • 1 0
 @reverend27: Maybe Trick Stuff can make their own bike Wink
  • 1 0
 My Trek Fuel EX 29 has similar numbers and an alloy frame at the same weight, 31 Lbs/14 Kg, for $4400 less retail - less than 1/2 the price.
  • 1 0
 @AAAAAHHH: Not according to Austin Powers
  • 1 0
 @Chris97a: I weigh the same as you, and I have plenty of injuries from wrestling in college. Hard tails are wicked fun
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez:
I had a Honzo up untill about a year and a half ago, pretty fun as it was my first hardtail since the late 90's. Got done with a random flowy, natural, small jump blue trail decent and couldn't get my knee, that I have had 2 surgeries on, to pedal over the top of the stroke, even with the seat all the way up. Swelled up the size of a cantaloupe and could barely walk for a few weeks, pretty much has hurt since then. Might have happened on a full sus anyway, but I don't think the extra abuse was doing it any favors. The mildly torn discs in my back also aren't really a huge fan of hardtails on long rides.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez:
I was also not nearly the weight I stated as me in shape. 195 to 205 was my weight as a division 1 college Nordic skier and then through till my early 30's. I was more like 250 at the time when I re-injured my knee. Big boy weight.
  • 25 4
 "the value on offer from the YT Jeffsy 29 CF Pro Race is a good alternative, with an entire bike costing not much more than the entire HB.130 bike" ehhhh?
  • 25 1
 Probably meant to say frameset.
  • 41 3
 but then you have a YT
  • 11 0
 @senorbanana: More like WHY-T amirite? Just kidding, I have a jeffsy.
  • 2 0
 @senorbanana:... and love it!
  • 21 0
 A Hope bike with a Sram crankset. British sense of humour?
Come on carbon suckers!
  • 25 0
 SRAM being dicks, they'll only sell Eagle oem if it's a whole set, hence the cranks.
  • 32 11
 @Fix-the-Spade: then go Shimano and have a better ride and easy repairs. Sram is a friggin nightmare
  • 8 0
 @madmon: You are preaching to the choir there, but I'm not the guy making OEM purchases for Hope.
  • 3 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: Hope have only just been allowed to make microsplines, so having designed the rear end around their prop. hub could only really spec SRAM when the review was written.
  • 2 0
 @timbarnes: they could take all the sram cranks and let one of their work experience boys sell them off at cost through ebay
  • 1 0
 It would be interesting to see if they gave you the eagle cranks when you pay to upgrade to hope exo cranks. Not a problem i will ever face but still food for thought.
  • 26 5
 I'll wait for the £2,000 refund.
  • 18 4
 You'd have to really love what Hope are about to select this from what I can see here.
High cost, average geo, nice new standards which lock you into Hope kit at $$$. Rear centre is exactly the same size regardless of frame size.

There's some lovely finish elements but I certainly wouldn't spend my hard earned on it. Doubtless others would though for looks / bragging rights alone.
  • 9 0
 Agreed. The big question is “why.” Why would I get this bike over any other? I know one big reason not to: proprietary rear hub and bottom bracket.
  • 8 0
 @skelldify: On one hand I'm disappointed that they have proprietary parts on this bike but in reality nobody is going to buy it except for diehard hope fanboys and it probably doesn't matter to them.

I know its not the same thing but I think its ironic that Hope was up in arms about Micro spline licensing and they have a bike with propriety parts and their XD driver doesn't even conform to XD standards.
  • 4 2
 It's funny to me that a components manufacturer gets grief because they design and engineer a bike around their own components (that they make in house.)

I really don't see the problem. Why the hell would you buy a Hope bike if you didn't intend to use Hope shit? Not only that but a company that employs a pretty large shop of folks really can't be faulted for ensuring that if you're buying one product line from them, you gotta use stuff from another product line whenever possible. That's just good business sense. It's a stretch that if you buy a Rockshox fork their intent is that you fill it up with Fox internals. Granted people mod shit and what not, but folks would do the same thing with the Hope frame if there was a market for it.
  • 5 3
 @Rucker10: this bike is aimed at well heeled Range Rover drivers who want to walk into a shop and get “the best” thing there. Price, compatibility, weight... who cares?
  • 3 0
 @skelldify: Agreed and agreed. No Proprietary anything on my bikes!!!
  • 4 1
 You guys are too practical. The people buying these will be the same ones who have a Ducati Panigale for commuting to work.
  • 3 1
 @friendlyfoe: I was “this close” to mentioning a Panigale in my Range Rover comment!
  • 2 0
 @mybaben: I 'third' this agreement. I'm a Hope fanboy and have owned most parts they produce but cannot get past the proprietary hub and bb. Component choice will always be limited and whilst Hope make good hubs (i've had 3 sets), the rear hub is a hugely important part and there are better options on the market (I9, Onyx, Chris King etc).
  • 2 0
 @tremeer023: Agreed. I love HOPE too! In fact, I have two custom built wheel sets with Hope Pro4s, though my wheel set on my main full sus rig is I-9s. Still I just can't limit myself to anything proprietary... Cheers.
  • 14 0
 Am I the only one disappointed by that half arsed head badge? Surely Hope of all people could come up with some gorgeous CNC masterpiece to stick on there!
  • 1 0
 Agreed, huge issue! I'm not sure where "cool head badge" is on my list of requirements for a bike, but it's WAAAAY higher up the list than I'm proud of...
  • 12 2
 Don't get me wrong i am a massive Hope fan. I have 15 year old stuff that still going as well as running there new stuff. but this is a massively competitive market and this does not hit the spot for me. If i had that kind of cash I would be looking at Pole, alchemy, Atherton etc. or buy a Yt and a primer and see which one you like. Don't get me wrong i bet it rides well. the build quality will be there is will last years and hope keep back catalog of parts for over decade but i still think its a lot of money for what you get. IMHO
  • 7 4
 And I don't understand the pro "made in the UK." Why is this a pro? If this was a bike review for a UK audience only, then fine. But this is a global review. I appreciate things made on the West coast of Canada; they support my local economy. But I wouldn't include that as a reason for someone in the US to purchase those things.
  • 7 0
 @rrolly: I don't think it's hard to understand the reviewer was stating "made in the UK" as a pro Vs made somewhere else with less clear conditions in regard to labor, environment, etc.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised the core market of this bike to be in the UK, specially after Brexit, so a bike being made "locally" to it's core market seems like a good idea
  • 6 1
 @rrolly: why not? I always weigh things made in the west vs cost. People need jobs and not every works in font of a computer.
Id be great if the time is coming to pass that corporate greed builds every physical object in China, mostly at shit quality.
It trains the rest of society to devalue everything we own and become unwilling to pay for and support quality products made by our neighbor.
I dont always follow my own advice, but if i need something to last and want quality, ill pay that extra, usually happily. And, its disproportionately German for some reason...
  • 1 0
 alchemy? have you ridden one? Because, I have......
  • 2 1
 @rrolly: I would choose a Canadian (or Mexican, or European, or South American) product over Asian, if the quality is great and price is at least in the ballpark. I think where the product is made, is something that any company should be clear about.
  • 3 0
 @Chris97a: We should certainly be mindful of which regimes our money supports. The Chinese communist party is certainly one of the ones we should strive to not support. I think the pro could equally read “Not made in China”. That would be as good for me as made in the UK.
  • 2 1
 @rrolly: Same reason I don't give a hoot about the whole "made in Colorado" spiel for GG. Both GG and Giant frames are built overseas from where I stand.

Technically this bike is too.
  • 2 0
 @Ttimer:
I hope that you understand the significantly different conditions that a composite worker in Colorado works under vs a composite worker in China.
  • 2 0
 @Chris97a: First of all, many, if not most, bikes are not made in China. If I'm not mistaken, Taiwan is the big manufacturing country.
  • 1 0
 @scary1: You're making a massive assumption by saying that good quality comes from our own countries while crap comes from China. There are good and poor quality products from both countries.
I don't have a problem with a review of a product stating where it's from. I think it's great to know so that people can determine where to send their money. Just don't make it a pro or con relating to the quality of the bike.
  • 1 0
 @rrolly: Taiwan for aluminium and components, China for carbon. I suspect that wages in Taiwan are too high for manual carbon production. However, wages in china are rising and companies might soon relocate carbon manufacture to cheaper countries like Vietnam, Bangladesh or Cambodia. Just like the the clothing industry has done already.
  • 1 0
 With globalised supply chains it’s not so simple as “Made in X” any more. The iPhone, for example, while assembled in China by a Taiwanese company has components from over 40 countries of manufacture.

A lot of bike companies manufacture different parts in different countries. Some are made in China and finished in Taiwan. I previously heard of bikes being formed and welded in Taiwan and then finished in Indonesia. Santa Cruz is manufactured in China but as far as I’m aware, no raw carbon strands are manufactured in China yet.

It’s a complex business, but one thing that’s not complex is that some countries don’t respect individual rights, free speech or even free thought. One of them is China. I personally try to avoid anything that’s made in China wherever possible. There is literally no worse pocket in the world for money to end up in than the CCP’s pocket.
  • 1 0
 @rrolly:
That is true for some parts, but the labor standards in North America, the EU and some other countries are far higher than in China or Taiwan.
  • 1 0
 @Chris97a: there is a world of difference between the working conditions in Taiwan and China. It’s true, Taiwan is not on the level of the west in terms of average salaries or out of work benefits, but at work conditions have been improved a lot over the past decade. As long as you’re Taiwanese at least. Not if you’re a migrant worker from Southeast Asia.
  • 1 0
 @jaame:
I am aware that conditions are better in Taiwan than Mainland China, but the original comment was"why is(made in a western country) a pro, (if it isn't the country I live in)".
  • 1 0
 @Chris97a: yeah that wasn’t a dig at you, it was more just to provide information to anyone reading who thinks Taiwan is China.
  • 2 0
 @scary1: those little German brands make beautiful high performance components.
  • 10 1
 $8400, proprietary BB and rear hub (crucial parts) and relatively heavy for a medium travel bike with many cheaper contenders making lighter bikes with equal performance without proprietary parts. I like UK built bikes and parts in general and Hope specifically, but this doesn't seem like a smart choice...
  • 5 2
 The proprietary parts would be a problem if they weren't backed up by a company like Hope. They'll produce spares for all of their parts basically indefinitely.
  • 4 1
 @mnorris122: True, but you're very limited in choice of replacement parts.
  • 2 0
 @mnorris122: Also, considering their critique towards Shimano for not making Microspline an open interface, I expect that all competitors will be free to produce parts that suit their bikes. Not likely it will happen but you never know. A smaller company like Syntace also introduced standards that eventually took off. So yeah, should their bb dimensions ever become the new norm, I trust anyone will be free to make bb cups for those. That said, I doubt ISCG05 will fit so we'd need a new chainguard standard too. Oh no...
  • 3 0
 @mnorris122: Even if they are backed by hope good luck finding them in stock at a normal bike shop (especially outside the UK). Chances are you will have to call hope and have them send one too you. yes it will get fixed but it will take time and that can be big issue if your on a trip or somthing.
  • 3 0
 @mnorris122: That's true, but replacements will be expensive and take time to deliver.
Not something I want to deal with for vulnerable parts like wheels.
The BB is fine, those usually don't fail spontaneously.
  • 1 2
 @mnorris122: I'm confused as to why people think that Hope makes high quality stuff. Compared to something like a King or DT 240, they are pretty poor in terms of quality. You don't need spares if you have a well made product to begin with.
  • 1 0
 @LeDuke: Hope does bridge a gap between average OEM stuff and the high end stuff. DT240 is high end, DT350 is more workhorse level. That said, the quality of affordable components has just gone up a lot lately so they don't really have that edge anymore. Now that Superstarcomponents has basically taken a similar approach (of producing CNC parts in the UK) yet direct to customer to cut costs, I'm curious to see how these two compare. I've got a Hope headset in my hardtail. I've got a Superstarcomponents slackerizer headset kicking around yet to install in my Cannondale Prophet in order to turn that one into something I'm willing to ride a little more. The Hope headset has been keeping up just fine for the past two years. Once the Superstarcomponent headset is in the fully we'll see how these compare. But yeah, this Hope headset seems just fine to me, no reason to think it is a bad product. Got to admit that my hardtail has a 150mm headtube so that probably keeps it easy on the headset.
  • 24 17
 This bike reminds me of a Taiwanese catalogue frame:
-Average geo
-Average suspension
-Average design aesthetic
-Random standards
-Performs OK

Only difference is the extortionate price.
There are much better looking and performing boutique brands in Europe you could indulge in for this price and get something interesting for your money! (Pole, Antidote, Unno) I just dont see a compelling reason to buy.
  • 16 1
 Pole, really?

Doubt Hope have ever (or would ever) throw an internet tantrum over a bad review
  • 9 0
 @usmbc-co-uk: Plus, they've probably never had a bad review...
  • 7 0
 Would love to see a back to back comparisons between this and the Santa Cruz Tallboy. About the same sort of price for the frame only option.

I think Hope is the only company I’d buy a frame with custom parts from. The after market support is brilliant.

Here hoping they turn up on the second hand market in a year or two when I am next looking Smile
  • 8 2
 Would have been interesting to see a boutique bike like this in the bike test and see how it stacked up.
I think that PB raised the bar for bike tests and maybe all bikes should go down the test track now and test climb to see how they really fair Smile
  • 6 8
 In the one of the last tests Steve Jones ever wrote in DirtMag he rode UNNO Dash and loved it calling it one of the best out there. Then he rode Starling Murmur and liked it over UNNO
  • 4 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Then he started riding bikes with electric motors...

Damn, I miss DIRT.
  • 1 0
 But what would you test it against? Santa cruz, yeti are all mass production brands
  • 1 0
 @ReformedRoadie: The problem is: how it rides is a matter of personal preference and opinion. Also based on what the tester have been riding beforehand. Also PinkBike has to provide a good service for the brands, showing off their products, in order to sell ads. They do provide specs and construction, what for me is enough to tell if I would like to try a bike or not.
  • 7 6
 @yvidal: the problem is, it all rides very well these days. It’s all a show of first world problems, like this whining on the geo of this bike not being progressive enough. Pole and Geometron have set some numbers while It is beyond geos of DH Race bikes. And DH bikes are not subjects to any compromise, their handling and speed parameters are maxed out. Suddenly two woke as fuk “visionaires” come along and throw all the body of knowledge of world’s fastest racers to garbage. And that is more than fine. What isn’t is a bunch of folks who use it as measure of progress which is BS.
  • 2 1
 @WAKIdesigns: "And DH bikes are not subjects to any compromise" are you serious?" DH is one of if not the most conservative bike sports out there that hasn´t really progressed that much in the past decade not because they got it spot on in the first place but because no one want´s to experiment anymore. And they are riding around the same stupid compromises like everyone else, bolt though axle on boxxer fork? Really? They ride what they get for free, just like top guys in enduro, xc, whatever. Doesn´t mean it´s better than what the next guy is doing, they just pay them more, I don´t think nicolai or pole is interested in paying million per year to Gwin just to see him snap e thirteen crank hurting his ankle month into the season. People who tried the bike more often than not bought it and they don´t need bigger market share than they do have now either.
  • 4 3
 @Mondbiker: dh bikes conservative? Oh God... i really need to see you ride mate.
  • 3 1
 @WAKIdesigns: ha I read this post and instantly thought of steve Jones and dirt as well. I still don’t read pinkbike reviews, I’ve heard they’ve cleaned their act up a bit but last time I checked they were just blatant adverts.

@Mondbiker DH hasn’t progressed much in ten years? Are you trying to be funny?
  • 3 0
 @thenotoriousmic: This review is pretty much an advert, but imo the field test was pretty good. No holding back on the downsides.
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I don't know for sure what geo numbers you refer specifically, but I am wrong to assume you mean reach value?

Yes, plenty of Enduro/AM Bikes will settle with longer reaches than their DH counterparts. For a simple reason. Front center is more important than reach on its own. DH bikes tend to have longer front centers for the same reach due to fork lengths and steering angles. If you want to emulate DH bike weight distribution and stability (and you should) on a shorter travel platform you need to increase reach.

That's why I don't get these frequent comments on "such long reach on a trail/am/Enduro/whatever-non-dh-bike ist just a fad, just look at the shorter reaches of the DH bikes the Pros use!".

If you were not referring to reach, then please ignore my rant
  • 2 0
 In the past, DH was where the new trends came from... This time around, things trickled up to DH... DH took extra time to go from 26 to 27 5 to 29... Partially because most people didn't think that much travel on big wheels would work.. Then, as they started to figure out frames and geometry, the component companies had to get DH worthy forks, tires, and wheels out there.. It almost seems that the Enduro bikes are becoming the new development bike...
  • 2 2
 @WAKIdesigns: You're STILL moaning about Pole and Geometron in a Hope story?!!
You havent even ridden the the damn bikes!
And yet just about every major manufacturer is creeping toward their numbers more every year.
People are literarily scared of my bike until the ride it and im pretty sure its your fault.
  • 1 0
 @Arierep: See? This guy has a brain
  • 3 1
 @Arierep: these super long bikes don’t work, well they don’t work for DH and EWS. Pretty much all the top DH / EWS racers have shunned massive bikes. Think Josh Bryceland summed it up best when he said something like long slack bikes are great for riders who need assistance getting down stuff but for riders who want to get as much speed out of a track as possible then smaller better handling bikes are the way to go.
  • 3 0
 @lumpy873: Greg turned up with a 29’ers v10 and everyone just followed suit without even questioning it. There’s no evidence that 29’ers are faster they just didn’t want to be left behind.
  • 3 2
 @Arierep: It’s the whole package. Long reach on trail and enduro Poles/Geometrons is dictated a lot by the steep seat angle, otherwise the ETT would be too short. They don’t shy away from DH head angles either. All that creates necessity for a rather long chainstay which grounds you. It literally does. And long geos are fine on long travel bikes. LikenDH bikes. They have tires and suspension to cover the cheques geo is writing. 140 trail bikes... not so much. Pinkbike Field Testers said it themselves. You have to remind yourself you are on a short travel bike. Well, yeah. An idea that you can max out every single factor yet keep travel low is silly.

@scary1 are you by any chance one of Functional training Woo woo coaches?
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Im pretty awake,brah.
Seriously, its easily my favorite bike in 25 years of bikes, i climb better,get less fatigued while doing it,descend just as fast, and its just a safer feeling bike to do it on.
At my age, that adds to the fun factor,knowing i can go as fast as i possibly can and everything is more stable and i dont even think about getting pitched off into a cactus.
It does take a little adjustment and its not a "jibby" type bike, if thats what you are, its not for you.
BUT, I Literally have been wanting this bike for 20 years and didn't know it.
#formerprodhracer #formershittyangryclimber
#currentlyenjoyingalloftheride
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Yeah, except the stopwatch on literally every time its tried,but thats it
  • 2 1
 @scary1: I just thought that it explains your drive towards novelty which is often mistaken with improvement. But since you obviously love it, who am I to judge. I like agile bikes that are easy to pick up in the air. I like to be able to chose lines instead of plowing ahead hoping no big stuff will come yp
  • 2 1
 @scary1: what stopwatch? Again there’s no evidence to suggest those races wouldn’t have been won on a different sized wheel.

@WAKIdesigns true you need a 8 inch duel crown to make slack geometry to work.
  • 3 0
 @thenotoriousmic: that's highly hyperbolic, and I could come up with a lengthy list of pros who ride on fairly long bikes or even size up.
Funny how you mention Josh Bryceland, a rider known for being into tricks and weird almost dj-like bikes (yes, he was crazy fast as well) when on the same team as him there was Greg Minnaar, who spent years asking for longer bikes and is still lengthening his current one with custom mods.

And is there any surprise those top guys have quirky setups? Most of them also run with a billion psi on their tyres and forks, would you also argue that's the way to go for the average rider?
The vast majority of average riders I know feel way more comfortable and safe with longer bikes
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Fair enough. But the length and geo pretty well dictate that I HOPE big stuff comes up ,Ive tried and its a hoot.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I don't know for sure what was the egg and what was the chicken, step STAs or long front centers, so won't comment much on that.
I disagree with you that a long bike necessarily equates to an overly planted bike feel.

I can't also see how maximizing geometry can't be compatible with shorter travels. If for an X amount of travel you improve the geometry, you just raised the performance ceiling of the bike a little. Yes, not as much as if you also increased the amount of travel, but is still a safer bike if you don't want to deal with the downsides of more travel for a given suspension design. Is not a zero sum game.
  • 2 0
 @Arierep: go on then list them, good luck. And you’ve just agreed with what I’m and I think bryceland was saying. Less skilled riders like longer bikes because they’re easy to get down stuff where the fast lads want something they can win on.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: oh shit, really??
You should call Intense and tell them how they f*cked up. The m29 is a full 5INCHES longer than the original M1.
I wonder if they even know?? Buncha hacks
  • 1 0
 @scary1: nobody’s saying they had it bang on in 1996 dude, just that these super long bikes didn’t work. 450mm reach on a xl m29 sounds about right to me though. Wink
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: go ask Minaar how progressive V10 is with last 5 iterations getting longer by millimeters, just don´t go 2mm too long becuse that will make the bike unridable lol. Yes, DH is the most conservative MTB discipline, slopestyle bikes developed more in that timeframe ffs.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Yeah, and then Minaar said that Rats bike is unridable by anyone else even remotely close in height...I really don´t know why anyone would take stoned rats advice seriously for anything other than having weird priorities in life and needing confirmation lol.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Too bad reach on m29 is 471mm then? And Gwin at what, sub 6 feet height rides it (ok, with -10mm reachset), the same guy who used to win races on Session that was 10cm shorter in WB. Get a clue mate, bikes are getting longer and lower for the past 10 year, too bad they need to lenghten it by 5mm most between model years, they might have been at this level back in 2010 if they weren´t scared to try..
  • 2 0
 @Arierep: long bike equals planted feel. Especially long chainstay. The difference between Manualing 420 stays and 438 is big (I compare my bikes) add 29” wheels more BB drop and it gets even more accentuated. It is inevitable. What long geo does it minimizes the effect of the terrain on the rider, hence conversely rider must move more and act with greater force on the bike. It’s physics. 450 Stays are a btch to pull up. Please note, I actually can manual long distances and Bunny hop 60cm. But most clients of these companies cannot do that so they don’t care. They cannot corner for shit either. Long bikes promote static bike Riding position. Now why isn’t it a problem On a DH bike? Because DH bikes are often fed with lots of kinetic energy and have suspension to make up for it. A little pop off a rock or root sends you several meters away. Unlike trail bikes.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: static? Hardly. The G1 requires more input not less. I quite like to muscle it into things and not worry about over-riding it. Yes 135 wheelbase and 325 bb height is a challenge to manual.
Luckily i can go from a 60 ha to a 64 on the G1 because you can adjust it with mutators.
I put the -8mm chainstays on it to try and it was too poppy for me . But that is the great thing about this bike as apposed to the Pole, there are a ton of variations you can make out of one frame.
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: I just used rat as an example because he’s on record talking about it but it’s the same for pretty much all top racers. They’re not riding super long bikes generally. There’s a few exceptions but it doesn’t take a genius to realise that 500mm plus reaches with 450mm stays isn’t a very good idea if you want to go fast. And yeah I don’t actually know the sizes on the new intense I was talking about last years which had a 450mm reach. My mistake.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Since you're the one making the claim that most top guys are on shorts bikes, the burden of evidence is on you. I invite you to go check a good number of top pros bike checks from the 2019 season and take note of their heights and frame sizes. Have fun.

Hint: Fatboy was an obvious outlier, and that was back in the day. Richie Rude seems to be another one right now. Most guys are on the brand's sizing charts for their heights at current geometry.

And notice that people here are not talking about extreme geometries like 510mm reach for an L.
But I should have left the conversation when you said a 450mm reach XL was perfect, so that's on me...
  • 2 0
 @Arierep: for a person that is around 180cm the 450 reach is quite usable. However if you steepen the seat angle to 76degrees your ETT gets close to 600mm. Super cool 78 degrees and your ETT is at 560-570 and you are hitting bars with your knees while pedaling. So if we fo 78 seat angle, we need reach of 470-480. Now let’s put head angle at 63 degrees and your front center grows to 800-830. That forces you to use chainstays no shorter than 450. Add longer person or even “Woke as fuk” seat angle and you end up with front end of 900mm and chainstay grows to 470-480. I want to see someone bunnyhop that...
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I was referring to the statement of calling a 450mm reach XL perfect. Unless your sizing table recommends XL for 175-185cm is something like that.

I agree with what you say there. I also think 180mm fork hardtails are stupid, so I think we are more or less on the same page
  • 1 0
 @scary1: muscling it into things is indeed a Necessity, if you want to steer the bike from straightlining stuff. I rode XL E29 once as well as Large Kona Big Honzo. Never was I working so hard on making bikes do shit while I also noticed that not doing much is fine. Go ride a BMX if you have issues with overdoing stuff. Take one to a pumptrack. Correct movement pattern with correct amount of energy put into it is a beautiful skill. Like clean and jerk. I wish I had the shoulder mobility for snatches. Once mastered these are wonderful tools to do anything. When I can no longer move right I will get an 29” Ebike with 200mm of travel front and rear, and 1300mm wheelbase
  • 1 0
 @Arierep: XL DH bike asks for at least 470, no weird things there, but given steep seat angles XL Enduro bike could easily need 490 at least. Please remember that Cesar Rojo, the author Of trend setting Mondrakers said himself that bikes get crazy long.
  • 3 0
 @Arierep: Rude, bruni, Perron, hill and could go on but I wasn’t making a claim is was correcting you. You’re two years to late for the long and slack nonsense. It didn’t work and the industry has moved on. XL demo 460mm reach gregs V10 490mm reach and that’s super long by DH / ews standards. Sam Hills mega 430mm reach. Nobody’s running long bikes.

I’m 6,3 and 450mm reach is perfect for me. My other bike has a 490mm reach and I hardly ride it because it’s too long.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: it is worth mentioning how tall Greg is as well as what is his style. He is light for how tall he is and stays on the ground a lot. Extremely smooth. Awfully smooth. I witnessed it first hand. It can be opposed to Troy Brosnan who is literally a fkng Kangaroo, or Danny Hart. They stay on top of things and need immediate response from the bike with little effort. It is unachievable with long reach and stays, requiring you to shift your weight by a lot to lift the bike and be even farther ahead of any movement.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Yep, he’s got that inch perfect style and longer bikes with bigger wheels clearly works for him but he’s doesn't have that flat out pace that bruni or gwin has, he wins by being consistently fast everywhere on the track.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Sorry, but Hills bike is a 450mm reach medium. There's a reason a specified for you to check 2019 season data.

And tell that to the whole bike industry which added length and slackness almost across the range of the new releases.

But hey if that bike suits you, power to you
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: I think it Just looks like that, he is Big and smooth, he just looks slow. Gwin is doing some weird stuff, I think he just stays off brakes more and then has balls to drop anchors no matter what. I saw him in VDS, on the steepest and roughest part he basically aligned himself for a rather straight line and bulldozed it, no matter what was on the way. He has arms to make up for it. These arms, shoulders and chest can lift 150% of his bodyweight easily. He is an old BMX racer and Moto dude. I’d assume he could make use of a stupid long bike, there’s not as much finesse in his riding as with Bruni or Minnie
  • 2 0
 @Arierep: my mistake, it’s 435mm not 430mm but again the guy who won the EWS did it on a tiny bike by today’s standards... are you getting it yet? Wink

@WAKIdesigns

He’s amazing he really is, to be doing it at his age. He definitely doesn’t look slow just that he doesn’t have the out and out pace of bruni, gwin or Perron bit doesn’t have the weakness that they have ether. He’s the best all round racer ever.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: it must just be made for me. I ride over the front really hard i guess . My front suspension is much harder that my rear with 5 tokens in the boxxer and i always wear out my front tire before my rear.
Anyways, i think i comes down to that Im right and youll be riding this geo in 5 years so Wink
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: +1 for you 100% right
  • 3 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Sam hill rides 29er mega which is 455mm reach and 450mm chinstays, something that would be considered between typical L and XL size just 5 years ago for most brands, and he is known for very "inactive" riding style, he is almost always in the middle of the bike and can keep his body there better than pretty much everyone else on this planet. So guy with textbook form at 175cm height rides larger frame than you at 187cm. Hm I wonder who is late to the party here lol. Not to mention every single DH rider you mentioned is upsizing or sits at the top of size recommended by the factory in size guides. Demo is 62.7 deg. in head angle ( something that was considered nonsense 2 years ago, and here we are, watching him win on it. What I don´t see is his fork binding like Marshy was so sure about in interview about geometry but oh well...)and 465mm reach in S3, no one called it´s XL, in fact most review of the bike stated that if you are above 6ft tall you might have to look elsewhere. But it´s fine that you think you can ride short bike faster than long one, it´s your money after all, just don´t spread the made up numbers and BS around Wink
  • 1 1
 @Mondbiker: nope, medium mega 435mm reach, large mega 470mm, why is there such a massive gap between large and medium? Sam Hill doesn’t want a long bike. You really don’t have a clue do you?
  • 2 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Dude, seriously...http://nukeproof.com/products/mega-290-comp-2020/#geometry
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: You mean this Danny Hart? www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-check-danny-harts-saracen-myst-maribor.html
I don´t know, 1289mm WB and 460mm CS sounds long enough for 175cm guy (and I don´t believe for a milisecond that he is above 170 heh)
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: do like I finally did and ignore the troll...
Either that o the guy's in the spectrum, he would not backpedal even if you rubbed the geo charts in his face.

@WAKIdesigns is right when he says that longer bikes are harder to manual, but I guess, currently, most consumers are more interested in going fast over hard terrain rather than jibbing around.
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: as I said countless times, no problem with long and slack on DH bikes... as for Enduro Bikes please expect them To go up in travel and slowly but surely transform into actua Quasi DH bikes, at least as long as tracks keep developing in same direction. Enduro racers already use heavy as fuk DH tires and inserts, which turn climbing into an awful dull grind.

Now putting “go fast as you can“ idea on trail and Down Country bikes which by their Main concept are meant for those who take a chill pill, which don’t have suspension and tires To cover up for it is basically nothing more but enlarging tits with no face to look at. Who in their right mind needs Danny Harts geo in a fkng trail center on what effectively is a XC bike with Minions as if this wasn’t already a stupid idea. A bike that doesn’t reach speeds that are even close to a DH bike.
  • 1 0
 BTW Danny Hart is 178...
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I have nothing against more travel, if you need it and actually have enough strenght to use it without running 50% sag F/R why not.
Based on the article I posted he is 175cm, in previous article about his bike from 2018 he was 179cm. Must have had pretty serious back injury where he lost those 4cm. I would bet you that the first number is closer than the latter. Anyways, it´s like with bodybulding, everybody is 120kg at 3%BF. At least on the insta/FB. f*ck it, so am I.
  • 2 0
 @Mondbiker: yeah my mistake, sam changed to 29 half way through the season to a stock frame not his preferred geo like the 27.5. Be interesting to see if he sticks with it though or gets the geo he wants again. Still isn’t massive and here we are a day later and you still haven’t managed to name a top racer who’s riding a massive bike, not a single one. These stupidly long bikes aren’t new, we’ve had them for years now yet they haven’t taken off and they’ve been shunned by the elites pretty much tells you everything you need to know but you won’t listen, you’re only really interested in winning an argument that you can’t win because you’re wrong. It’s no a secret only you know, the racers know about it they’ve tried them, the manufacturers know about it, they’ve tested them. Nobody’s convinced but I’m glad they work for you.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Well, one thing I can agree on is that there is no way I´m winning here arguing with you lol. I give up, you win.
  • 1 0
 Gents. May add a wee theory to your enthralling argument.

The larger the wheel size the longer the bike required for the same or similar feeling/handling. Smile
  • 1 0
 @betsie: Doesn´t really work that way but thanks.
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: Yes it does but no thanks,
That is just basic levers and angular momentum stuff. Smile
Not after an argument (that is your hobby) just stating a fact to you.
  • 1 0
 @betsie: gentlemen... too much theory, not enough sending sideways... this weekend, point the rear axle ahead!
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: been out mate. Enjoyed a few days of 7C temperatures here. Like summer nearly.
Snapped my mega TR275, built my 160mm Mega back up, rode a 29er dh bike for the first time. It was ok. Didnt beat my 26er though Wink

Back to work tomorrow after 3 weeks off. Design Engineering.... I mean paperwork.
Far stretch from the days of missile launch systems, brushless motor drives, bomb disposal robots or high temperature high reliability downhole tools for oil and gas.

Mass manufacture medical devices... much more paperwork Frown
  • 1 0
 @betsie: I’ll be back on Thursday into my melting pot... At least I am drawing a gym Smile that makes me feel better even though everybody seems to hate everybody in the project. My back just cleared 3 sets of 5 on 100kg. It may actually work out. It’s been exactly year since the SI joint injury. My buddies want to convince me to try 360 again... that shit hurts even though we built the best jump ever for it.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: The going back to work hurts the head after time off.
Drawing a gym sounds cool actually, beats going back to final tidy up of a large project I was tech lead for then part change notification processing and some alternative supplier qualifications for bespoke parts.

I am the pencil dead sailor king... I mean, I jump like an old man, tired to backflip into an airbag once, didnt get far but it was funny, Closer to 50 than 40 now so have to leave the tricks to the youngsters.... (insert other excuses here).
  • 1 0
 @betsie: ... if that is how inertia works for you than I really really really hope you aren´t engineer.
  • 1 0
 @betsie: I thought like that about “tricks” too. But whips and tabletops hugely improved my overall jumping game, that includes sending off a rock/ root over a big feature. It really raised my game in rock gardens because I my head and body found it perfectly natural to pop from stuff at an angle or land at an angle. (Like taking off a sharkfin kind of hip and landing into a corner, when you ride stuff as big as VDS or what upper Fort Bill seems to be that is what you effectively do when you are pinning it) In the same way riding skate park suddenly made me super comfy with steeps. I think it is due to the fact that “tricks” make you familiar with ranges of motion and angles beyond what is usable on a big full susser. So when you ride that full susser you feel comfortable within those ranges. Approaching a lip a bit off and Realizing you will be landing a bit off when You have experience doing some 45-90 whips? No problem. You know that as long as your center of mass stays in right spot between the wheels And the front points in the right direction the bike will ride it out. No whip experience? You tense up before the take off then freeze completely in thw air and... Fiday fail Smile

Find some good legit jumps and grind it
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: I really really hope that I am.
Just to help you. Now as you are clearly a space rocket scientist, I will allow you to do the 2+2 here. (I know, you just either came up with 5 or don't know why I put 2+2)

Inertia is the resistance of the object to any change in its motion, including a change in direction. An object will stay still or keep moving at the same speed and in a straight line, unless it is acted upon by an external unbalanced force.

Then Angular momentum

Angular Momentum
The angular momentum of a rigid object is defined as the product of the moment of inertia and the angular velocity. It is analogous to linear momentum and is subject to the fundamental constraints of the conservation of angular momentum principle if there is no external torque on the object. Angular momentum is a vector quantity. It is derivable from the expression for the angular momentum of a particle.

Watch out for that moment of inertia in the angular momentum text Smile

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/amom.html

A link for you too so you can see a pretty picture.

Now I will help you a bit.. a 26" wheel is smaller than a 29" wheel, and a 29" wheel, due to having a larger diameter weighs more than a 26" wheel.

If you want take 2 gyroscopes of different sizes and see how much force it takes to move them once they are rotating, you could even see how much force it takes to get them moving...

There are Engineers and keyboard engineers in the world, the best ones are the keyboard engineers as they know absolutely everything.... that isnt written in a text book and they learned from sponge bob.
  • 1 0
 @betsie: bbb but... doesn’t it insinuate that if we had two bikes with same geometry, one with 26” wheels and one with 29” (given dimensions of the frame and fork are big enough to accomodate a bigger wheel w bike with big wheels, thinking mainly CS length and stack) it is the 29” wheel that will be more stable at speed. This would mean that if one finds a satisfactory geo for 26” wheel, the 29” version can have a shorter and less slack numbers... remember that the bigger the bike the more force rider needs to exert on it to move it.
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: It´s funny when you explain why is someone wrong in 2 sentences when he (engineer) needed diploma thesis to actually prove himself wrong. What I don´t get is how and why this happens only here ,it´s like pinkbike is some weird loophole where engineers forget how to engineer lol. I´m not an engineer, so I understand that bigger wheel doesn´ t need longer bike to be more stable, not that that wouldn´t be obvious to anyone able to check geometry charts where 29ers are almost always shorter in /steeper in HA, desperately trying to make up for lazy big wheels everyone needs these days.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns:
The 29er should be more stable in a straight line at speed for sure, but harder to initiate that initial speed, and if it goes off balance then it is harder to get back on balance (I have said this since day 1 and also said its why there appears to be more crashes on 29 than 27.5, 29 is still evolving, hence the mullet).
On a pump track a 29er or even a 27.5 is much harder work over the rollers etc to get the bike back down on the ground and through the tighter corners where the exit means you are transferring from one direction to another compared to a 26.
You like your tricks, have you found them easier or harder with the bigger wheels or is injury still effecting you too much?
Also the larger the force the tighter the suspension control required to keep it stable. Suspension includes the rider of course.
The 29er I tried at the weekend was stable for sure, Commy with Boxxer WC etc on, I trusted it straight off the line, just wasn't setup exactly for me (too stiff for me as its owner is 10kg heavier than me), would be interesting to see hoe fast I could go on it, track only maxes out at 25mph on a good day and you have to carry out of some slightly tighter helterskeleter corners to get that speed. Although my bike was faster I was more fatigued on the 26 than the 29 at the bottom of the track.
I always keep an open mind when it comes to different wheel sizes on different bikes. I cant wait to try the commy again and see what it can do with a good few laps practice and setup.
  • 9 1
 I really like Hope stuff but this just seems to miss the mark again in terms of geometry and price, I really can't see it matching an Optic
  • 12 0
 I'm going to go out on a limb here and say hope aren't trying to position this bike as a competitor to the optic, or any other mass produced bike. These bikes are more like functional jewelry born as a result of Hope's internal engineering exercises, a platform for hope to try different things with a blank canvas. Not a production bike made with the goal of mass production and competitive pricing. I'm not saying that is good or bad, just that it's different and the appeal will be different. Hope's biggest sales challenge might be that, as we all know, there are no dentists in the UK. Hehehe
  • 1 0
 @KennyWatson: LMAO!! Oh snap!
  • 5 0
 I tested one of these recently and left somewhat dissapointed. It did everything ok but no more than that. I also a bit shocked that you didn't experience the flex in the rear end?! Really put me off it so went for a ripmo which when I back to back tested was better at just about everything I thought. The hope looks incredible, and loved the spec but it kinda felt dated in terms of geo and reach.
  • 5 1
 130mm hub spacing??? Doesn't the last decade of marketing tell us that this means the rear wheel will flex like a wet noodle, you won't be able to fit a tyre bigger than 1.95", and all of your riding buddies will make fun of you! Unrideable.

Actually, in all honesty, I think the bike looks sick. I can't afford one, but if someone wanted to give me one, I'd rather have this than some boring Yeti, or SC!
  • 1 0
 And you'd look even cooler at the coffee shop with your even more obscure/niche high dollar bike.
  • 1 0
 Precisely. My comment got deleted. This bike is a pile of bullshit.

But they get a pass because of low level imperialist pride. Goofy money, immediately dead standards, from a brand that can’t supply enough stock to its dealers already. Sweet.
  • 8 1
 British bikes : no steel no deal !
  • 2 0
 As you say Wink
  • 13 6
 Why is 'Made in UK' a Pro??
  • 7 1
 Brexit init, the lion will ROAR etc etc etc
  • 9 1
 Because it's different and not Chinese. People like bikes from countries they can relate to. Also, it smells less like 'mass produced by young overworked children' (I'm exaggerating).
  • 11 8
 @Mac1987:" People like bikes from countries they can relate to"'
I think I would just rather have a well made bike. Not too bothered about which country it comes from.
'Excellent build quality' is a Pro.
'Made in UK' is a simple fact.

Besides, the days of Made In Britain meaning quality are looong gone. But we're getting off topic.
  • 7 0
 For some of us, "buying local produce" is a pro. As you may have noticed here on PB, North American visitors (and reviewers) can get very excited over something produced in North America. Something similar goes for European readers when something has been produced in Europe. Though maybe not to the same extend as it seems European production hasn't suffered as much as North American production. Especially now that we're actually seeing a rise in UK produced frames (with Cotic, Stanton etc reeling more production back in).

@usmbc-co-uk: Has the sentiment over there grown any bigger over there with all this Brexit stuff? I must admit being from The Netherlands I don't expect the Brexit will keep me from buying British stuff. CRC already went boring well before the Brexit vote but if I just want to buy something from Hope or Superstarcomponents the Brexit is not keeping me from doing that.
  • 1 1
 @Pedal-Bin: I didn't say it should be that way or that all people feel that way. I just pointed out that a lot of people feel that way and that it can be a powerful marketing instrument. Also, the times of only cheap crap coming out of China are long gone. Stuff coming out of Taiwan is usually at least decent and often good quality.
On the other hand, if you make stuff in expensive countries (like Germany or the UK), you might as well make it high quality. High cost and low quality doesn't seem to work in the long run. And Hope has been around for a long time.
  • 1 0
 Made the same comment too bro.Wondering aswell.
  • 3 0
 @Mac1987: Cool, sorry if I reacted badly. It just annoyed me that 'Made in UK' was a Pro, 'Well Made' would of got the point across and been a little less xenophobic.
High cost low quality will always lose, I agree.
I just keep thinking back to when Hope knocked 2000 GBP of one of their bikes and even refunded customers who had already bought the bike. It was like they were being cheeky and thought 'Hey, people will pay a premium because it's made in the UK, or just because we are Hope'. They shouldn't build a good brand up and then try and abuse their customers trust.

@vinay: Fair point, I'm all for buying locally sourced goods where possible.
  • 3 0
 @Pedal-Bin: the UK is a center of manufacturing excellence that Hope can tap into, as their recent collab with Lotus nicely demonstrates. You're paying the premium because it's made in Britain, so it had better be a plus!
  • 5 0
 @Pedal-Bin: "Besides, the days of Made In Britain meaning quality are looong gone. But we're getting off topic."

Sounds like you're the one whos xenophobic. The UK has a long established high end manufacturing industry.
  • 3 0
 @Pedal-Bin: Not really when it comes to carbon and high end manufacturing not many if any can match the uk being made by Hope is a definite advantage over your made in China cheap plastic carbon that most manufacturers use.
  • 1 1
 @Mac1987: Reductive opinion as everything`s not made in China. Also one could hire foreign children to build home soil things in UK. Question of... business geometry; our world is cynical enough to set up that kind of scheme. Imagine...
  • 1 1
 @vinay: Buying local may end up our only real option, as the pound collapses further and imports cost a fortune. Also means buying UK exports might be nice and cheap....
  • 2 0
 @thenotoriousmic: " being made by Hope is a definite advantage"
That's what I'm saying. Made by Hope is a Pro. Not 'Made in UK'.
  • 2 0
 @G-horseNoBrakes: That maybe so, but the review came across as anything made in the UK, simply by virtue of being made in the UK is good which is not the case.
  • 2 0
 @blackpudding: No! You're paying the premium because it's made by Hope. I refer you to the bit about the 2k refunds they gave.
  • 3 0
 @Pedal-Bin: Well it totally depends on what it is really. Bottle of wine with made in the uk on the side is definitely not a good thing, high end manufacturing though is a different story all together.
  • 2 0
 @Pedal-Bin: What's wrong with the refunds? The bike was initially made as a prototype/experimental. When by popular demand they started series production they probably expected it to be very niche (hence only a few bikes sold) so the price per piece (which includes the costs for the molds etc) was high. When they had more orders than expected, the price per product dropped and they considered it fair to refund the savings to the early adopters too. They didn't necessarily have to but they did. Not sure why this is a bad thing.
  • 2 0
 @vinay: that actually sounds like great customer service. Most companies would have accepted the extra money and increased prices for the next model.
  • 3 0
 It's a tough bike market out there these days. Lots of good rigs and it's hard to stand out.
Need to either have a unique and amazing rear suspension (i.e. Orion, CBF, SB), unique fit (Mondraker, Pole, Geometron), unique custom features (Atherton, SWAT), really lightweight (Pivot, Giant), standout warranty (Santa Cruz) or killer value (YT, Canyon, Intense). To top it off you need to have parts available, service, water bottle storage, looks, etc...
When there is eventually a recession the herd of 'also' bikes will be culled and I don't see what this Hope bike offers that stands out.
That said, I genuinely wish Hope all the luck and sales in the World.
  • 1 0
 Only important thing you mention is water bottle storage
  • 4 0
 @browner: Well the good thing is that picking the right bike for you must be incredibly easy. Check for water bottle holder, YES... I'll take this one.
  • 1 0
 @SunsPSD: are you new here? It's not easy at all actually. Location, number of mounts, size of bottle all come into play and that's not even touching on custom artisan mounts.
  • 1 0
 @browner: artisan bottle mounts. Excellent work.
  • 3 0
 I have an HB.160, so I'm obviously biased. Mine cost £5500 18 months ago, and there's obviously been an increase in price since then. It didn't "cost" that much, as I got £3500 fron the insurance when my 2015 Spitfire snapped and knacked a few components. I sold some other parts on to make another £1k.

Geo-wise, it's more up-to-date than the HB.160 but then, geo is personal depending on leg, torso and arm lengths.

The BB is a non-issue. The alloy shells screw into the frame like a normal threaded BB, just larger diameter. The bearings are then pressed in. They run the Hope 30mm crank axle with no adaptors, or the DUB cranks with adaptors, therefore there's no reason to think they won't make 24mm adaptors at some point.

The rear wheel is not flexy. The 130mm hub has no internal axle like normal Pro4's - the 17mm frame axle runs direct on the bearings. The 35W are heavy, though, and at some point I'm going to rebuild with XM481's.

I guess it has a standard post mount rather than the radial mount if you don't want Hope brakes.

It's not that heavy or expensive really - an SC Hightower CC XO1 with Reserves is 13.5kg and £7800 (or £6600 without reserves).
  • 1 0
 How can the rear wheel not be flexy? For the past 5+ years, we've been listening to hundreds of songs about why still prolonging rear wheel axle is necessary, that those zilion sprocket casettes need some more space. That flanges must be farer apart to make for wider wheel lacing. So who's been kidding ourselve? Or is this new HB130 using 4mm steel spokes in 4-cross pattern to gain the lost stiffness?
  • 5 1
 XL Geometry is too conservative... I can't ride 75*....

Kidding, but it is a bummer to see a new bike with the seat post angle getting slacker as the bike gets larger...
  • 2 0
 Agree.
XL isn’t very XL is it....

I’s take the Pace RC295 over this any day.
  • 2 0
 I've no strong personal preference (though I still feel a slack STA is best when the saddle is low) but from all these discussions I've seen in the comment section, there is a considerable number of riders who actually prefer their seat tube angles not overly steep. The steeper seat tube angles were paired with a longer reach to keep the horizontal top tube (relevant for seated pedaling) in check. If the reach on this bike is not particularly long, I can imagine they'd need to back off the seat tube angle too to give enough room for seated riding.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: Exactly as you say in your last sentance, which means the geo is too conservative... The problem is the seat tube angle gets slacker as the frame sizes gets larger when people on larger frames are mostly taller and benefit much more from a steeper sta. The higher up your mass the more it acts like a lever against suspension, having a steeper STA better centers your mass on the bike.
  • 4 1
 so now if i buy this bike Im stuck with a NEW standard and must use their hubs and bb?????????
for $10,000.00 Canadian and its beefy like a dead weight for a trail bike.
HELLO GIANT.
  • 3 1
 It consistently amazes me how many spelling and grammatical errors pepper these articles. For a news/content website you would think they would have some level of editorial oversight.
  • 1 0
 Charlatans
  • 3 1
 "Proprietary bottom bracket and rear hub" Epic FAIL!
I don't care who makes the bike or components, I will NOT be locked into any one thing for the life of the bike!
NEXT!
  • 1 0
 If I bought an @all rounder 29er, that I could be everything on from uplifting to racing the odd Enduro, and riding on my local trail, I’d be thinking 160mm and 145mm rear travel. I’m also not too into shelling out loads of cash. Maybe a Ripmo AF with a coil would be more my kind of bike?
  • 10 8
 Yo pinkbike you now what would be sick to do is that if you got a full custom one off bike and auctioned it off to help bush fire affected Australians.
  • 40 0
 You know what would be sicker.... if the government here actually funded the fire service properly
  • 1 0
 @ctd07: you know what would be even sicker....... if they actually knew how to spend tax payers money instead of going billions of dollars over budget
  • 4 0
 Seems kinda on the heavy side for a 130mm bike. Also pricey AF.
  • 1 1
 I'll add my voice to the chorus of dissenters on this one. My aluminum Slash with a much more basic build kit weights the same, climbs as well and crushes descents in a way this bike never will. At the price, the Hope should have a little more travel, or weigh less. Or it should cost less. As-is, it's an inferior British-made clone of a good Asian made trail bike.
  • 3 1
 What a cheap bike, at least compared to the Taiwanese made trance advanced pro 0 29r.
  • 1 0
 Typo in here?

"...the value on offer from the YT Jeffsy 29 CF Pro Race is a good alternative, with an entire bike costing not much more than the entire HB.130 bike"
  • 2 0
 Wow, heavier and more expensive than my custom build sb150. Great job Hope!
  • 2 0
 "130mm rear hub spacing with a 17mm diameter axle" i want to see... in detail Eek
  • 1 0
 The bolt through axle is the hub axle
  • 1 0
 If only there was a company who could matchy-match the Kashima colouring on anodized blingy bits (pivots/headset/spacers/hubs/brake rotors/master cylinder caps etc)...
  • 1 0
 ought to be plenty of well heeled range rover owner/riders in the UK willing to have a proper UK made steed. this is a good thing, aimed at a serious market, the way I see it
  • 4 2
 I'm just here for the Hope puns.
  • 2 0
 I certainly hope so.
  • 2 0
 Hopeless...
  • 2 3
 @vinay: like the chances of this bike selling.
  • 4 0
 I'm waiting for some Big uns to drop
  • 3 0
 I was Hope-ing for an Aluminium anodized frame set.
  • 1 0
 @shimanodx: I hub you don't have to wait too long...
  • 1 0
 @sewer-rat: sounds a bit BULBous
  • 3 0
 HB.200 please !!
  • 2 0
 How does one tuck and barrel
  • 2 2
 "Proprietary bottom bracket and rear hub"

Say what now?
At least with the hub being a Hope, it will never ever need servicing, let alone replacing.
  • 1 0
 I am just barely moving away from the 12x142 rear axle. Tell me, why are we moving on from boost now?
  • 1 0
 Nice looking bike but.... nothing new here. Except a more expensive price tag and an unnecessary new hub standard...
  • 2 0
 How is a Hope bike not going to have a Hope crankset??
  • 1 0
 Because SRAM will only supply Hope with XO1 Eagle if the fit the cranks. It actually works out as a no-cost option to spec the Hope Evo crank through the dealers.
  • 1 0
 Am I the only one annoyed by companies that refer to 29 inch rims as their 26 series? Come on.
  • 1 0
 Weird you didnt mention how ultra low stack is, as you did on GT Sector 29 130...
  • 1 0
 This is from a year ago. Strange it got posted exactly a year after again. Did PinkBike get hacked?
  • 1 0
 31lbs, $8K, eff that's heavy bike with a heavy price! Eye test, this should not cost more than $5K
  • 2 0
 This the mountain bike equivalent of a Pagani.
  • 1 0
 I dont know about what others think but made in the UK does not actually rate as a pro for me
  • 1 0
 I would buy this and just hang it on my wall
  • 1 0
 looks more like Horst link and less like four bar suspension design....
  • 4 0
 Horst link is form of four bar design.
  • 1 1
 @Mondbiker: negative. Horst link is a multi pivot design, meaning that the axle is separated from the frame by two or more pivots. Horst link always has the pivot on the chainstay. Four bar is a single pivot design in that the axle is only separated from the frame by the pivot at the frame. Four bar always has the pivot on the seat stay.
  • 4 0
 @tdcworm: That’s Faux Bar. So named because at a glance it looks like Four Bar but is actually a linkage driven single pivot.
  • 2 0
 @tdcworm: Well, davechopoptions beat me to it, soooo yes, no, fourbar isn´t linkage driven singlepivot that you described.
  • 1 0
 26 in rims?? I think you meant 29?
  • 1 0
 So a 135 mm old school rear hub won't fit? Or is the 130 mm a typo?
  • 1 2
 Won’t fit. Especially as it runs a proprietary 17mm axle to ensure that resulting tiny hub bearings last no time at all.
  • 1 0
 mind you maxis dh tyres , you could save 500grams by fitting trail tyres
  • 1 0
 It is absolutely pretty AF!!!
  • 2 2
 Good to see they ditched that frame mount and went with the PM standard.
  • 2 3
 Pros : made in UK ? You count that as a good thing...lol....there were no other pros so you just put that there.
  • 4 0
 For many people, and not just those in the UK, it is a indeed a pro. as it would if it were made in any simlar eu nation like Germany, France etc -environmental regulations are strong -labour laws are tighter.
  • 1 0
 .....
  • 1 1
 should make entire frame out of cnc'd alloy
  • 1 0
 love that rear triangle.
  • 4 5
 The pricing makes S-Works and Project One seem reasonable.
  • 12 0
 Spec use cheap asian labour to make there goods and ramp up the price. Hope is UK made all the way. Which can at times cost more.
  • 7 2
 Yeah but an s works still has specialized own brand stuff on it, costs cut on things like chains and cassettes, and have volume of production on their side. Hope are aftermarket components primarily, so to get a bike with everything already at that level, there's no real upgrades can be done, plus you wouldn't see many other people out on a hope, whereas specializeds are literally common as muck.
  • 1 0
 why? this has literally no similarities to S-works or project one, for the reasons @inked-up-metalhead and @jonathansixtysix just mentioned
  • 1 0
 @jonathansixtysix: Nobody in the bike industry makes a whole lot of money-the margins are pretty lousy.

I'm not a huge fan of big dollar bikes, but don't kid yourself that an Asian made frame equals a big payday for anybody in the industry.
  • 2 4
 Why ist „made in UK“ a pro when you are not from the UK?
  • 14 1
 A few reasons:
* the environmental regulations are much stronger in the EU so it's better for the planet (hopefully this will remain the case after Brexit)
* The labour laws are saner so you know the staff aren't being exploited
* You know it's not an kit bought off the shelf with a few stickers on
  • 3 6
 2003 called, it wants its visible twill weave back.
  • 2 0
 Yes I do not like the woven carbon look
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