Review: Industry Nine's New Hydra Hubs Have 690 Points of Engagement
For over a decade now, Industry Nine's high end hubs have clicked along with 120 points of engagement. That's a lot of engagement for a bicycle hub, and there really aren't too many other options out there which rival it. Chris King's hubs have 72 points of engagement and have long been considered a standard, and then Project 321's hubs have 216. Onyx uses a sprag clutch system for instantaneous engagement, but that's a clutch system, and it's best to compare clutches to clutches and pawls to pawls.
There are a few more choices out there, but Industry Nine have always been up towards the front of the pack when it comes to points of engagement, and with the new Hydra hub they've taken things even further. The Hydra hub has only .52 degrees between engagement points thanks to a 115-tooth drive ring with 6 pawls working in 6 phases. The weight of the updated system is a few grams less than the older Torch hubs.
There are a few more choices out there, but Industry Nine have always been up towards the front of the pack when it comes to points of engagement, and with the new Hydra hub they've taken things even further. The Hydra hub has only .52 degrees between engagement points thanks to a 115-tooth drive ring with 6 pawls working in 6 phases. The weight of the updated system is a few grams less than the older Torch hubs.
Industry Nine Hydra Wheelset Details
• 27.5" or 29" (tested) system options
• Aluminum and carbon rim options available
• 28/32 spokes, aluminum system and J-bend available
• 6-pawl, 6-phase, 115-tooth drive ring
• .52 degrees between engagement points
• 11 different colors in system wheels
• 2-year warranty
• Wheelsets from $975, Hubsets from $650
• industrynine.com
• 27.5" or 29" (tested) system options
• Aluminum and carbon rim options available
• 28/32 spokes, aluminum system and J-bend available
• 6-pawl, 6-phase, 115-tooth drive ring
• .52 degrees between engagement points
• 11 different colors in system wheels
• 2-year warranty
• Wheelsets from $975, Hubsets from $650
• industrynine.com
The new Hydra hub system isn't just a higher tier option in their line. It replaces their current Torch series hubs completely, and it's joined by a new more value-oriented 101 series hub set with 90 points of engagement.
The older Torch series, left and Hydra, right have a different pawl, drive ring, and bearing system.
Construction
According to Industry Nine, having the highest engagement wasn’t the principle goal with Hydra - the primary goal was to make the most durable high engagement hub system possible.
A standard pawl driven system has between two and four pawls that engage simultaneously, a design that's intended to equally distribute the load around the drive ring and freehub body. That's the theory at least, but when you’re actually riding down the trail there are a lot of different forces acting on the bike and flexing just about everything on it, including the hub shell, axle, and drive ring; there’s constant movement and stress in the system. Occasionally, with all of those outside forces, you’ll end up with a single pawl engagement. This adds a big cantilever load to the freehub body and the freehub bearing as well as the drive side hub shell bearing. This can lead to accelerated bearing wear, freehub body wear, and it can impact the efficiency to the system because the bearings that are supporting the freehub are taking an increased load.
With Hydra, there’s a 115-tooth drive ring, and 6 individually phased pawls, equally spaced from each other. This means that all of the pawls, and the teeth on them, catch the teeth on the drive ring individually instead of simultaneously. That means that each time you move the drive ring one tooth over you’ll get six individual clicks. The Hydra system also uses a leaf spring system under the pawls instead of the tiny coil springs found on the Torch system.
In the video, you can see the difference in the phasing of the older 3-degree and new Hydra design.
You have one leading pawl that starts to take the load or force from pedaling, but because the pawls are phased close together and the tooth count is so high, as soon as you apply torque to the system, or pedal, a second, third, and fourth pawl will start to take some of the torque load and evenly distribute the load. It utilizes the inherent flex in the drive system to transfer the torque and ensure that a single pawl will never take the entire load. This is where Industry Nine claim that their system has an advantage over a traditional pawl system that can’t limit that flex - they say it limits and minimizes wear and tear on the system and provides a more consistent ride.
With the new freehub design there's also a new bearing and axle configuration on both the front and back. The new design uses a smaller diameter axle and a larger bearing. The rear axle is now a 15mm spec, down from 17mm. This was done to increase bearing life and to be compatible with Shimano's Micro Spline freehub. The other reason for the change was to increase the stiffness of the axle system. The 15mm axle now makes a direct contact with the thru bolt, making a stiffer axle system overall. Not to be left out, the front hub also gets a new axle as well.
Industry Nine's two new freehub bodies - 101 and Hydra on top and then their older Torch below.
Ride Impressions
The first thing that I noticed with the wheels is that the loud, at times almost annoying “metallic rattlegator” sound that Industry Nine have become known for is much more subdued. It’s not quiet, but it’s less disturbing. If you’ve ridden Chris King or Project 321 hubs, it has a similar tone to those two now, more of a growl. There’s still a bit of I9 in there, but it’s much subtler.
Usually after a half dozen rides or so, the wheels would get louder as the grease thins out but so far things are purring right along, and I’ve put a solid 30 hours, many of those in poor conditions, on the wheels.
Now to the other part and what actually matters - 690 points of engagement…can you even tell? Plain and simple, yes. When switching from the older Torch wheels or the Project 321 hubs over to the Hydra hubs there was a very noticeable difference, similar to the sensation that occurs when you switch from a traditional pawl system with far less engagement to either of those.
Does having that much engagement in the hubs make you a better rider? No, not at all, and it’s probably not going to help you get through any bit of trail you previously couldn’t clean. However, you can tell that it’s a high-quality system and it feels good - there’s no lag that I can tell when I’m crawling up technical terrain; the half-degree between engagement points essentially feels instantaneous and makes getting through tight spots seem more fluid.
The new hubs are advertised to have less drag than the old Torch system and riding them proves this true. As far as bearing life goes, I haven’t had any issues thus far and I’ve ridden in some pretty sloppy conditions that tend to help shake those to the surface rather quickly.
Hub shells come from a solid chunk of aluminum and pawls are cut from a sheet of steel.
Pinkbike's Take
 | 690 points of engagement sounds pretty silly, really. Is it necessary? Time will tell whether the system is all that much more durable than traditional pawl driven set-ups, which is in my mind its biggest selling point. There’s also no doubt about it that Hydra’s engagement is noticeably quicker, smoother, and so far, I can say it works exactly as advertised. If you have lusted after high amounts of engagement in the past, consistently wreck freehub parts because you’re putting down massive amounts of power, or just like nice flashy wheels, I9's Hydra system may be worth checking out. |
Author Info:
Must Read This Week
Sign Up for the Pinkbike Newsletter - All the Biggest, Most Interesting Stories in your Inbox
PB Newsletter Signup
here you go
High POE: Because when you pay 200$ more than you should for a rear hub you want something to brag about.
So Hydra won't make me a better rider but Hydra will make it seem like I'm a better rider? Got it.
www.pinksumo.com/gifts-c1/fun-stuff-c49/merkin-body-hair-p2225
*And as the brave Offendivists walked through the ravine, they came upon a Triggericon. They knew how dangerous those items are so they walked around it. But one of them, the SJ, he couldn't resist - he turned around and try to grab it with the end of his hallibard. As he touched it, a net shoot up the sky from the ground, capturing him. They heard the grunting laughter and a giant hand of a mountain troll picked him up and soon he was consumed. Offendivists only heard the agonal screams of their comrade being eaten alive... the crunching of the bones... the tears have been shed...
The joke
-------------
Your head
If you'll notice the joke has flown right over your head
www.facebook.com/pg/Industry9/videos
www.schoolspring.com/find/vermont_teaching_jobs_in_vermont.cfm
I don't understand the split between Masters degree and the shit pay that teachers get. In any other industry, a real masters would have you pulling 6 figures.
www.facebook.com/Industry9
As for how affects when coasting at higher speed, basically, it doesn't; when coasting at higher speed the motion in the freehub coming from suspension won't be fast enough to engage on the fast-spinning hub body (this comes from Antonio Osuna blog)
some reading for the easy triggers:
linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2012/12/kickback-en-bajadas-wm.html?m=1
Hey, it'll give the dentists an excuse. "Yeah, my Strava time was slower thru the rock garden today because my new 690 pt hub was throwing off my rear suspension."
No hate on i9 or high end hubs.... non dentist/doctor here and happy Project321 owner. Silent pawls. Worth the money. And I'd consider these for my next build. I do like the more subdued sound. Nice vid on YouTube.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFyZM1vMwnI
It still doesn't sound good to me. With the 3-degree hub, three evenly distributed pawls are helping bear the load equally around the ring, 33.3% each, and keeping everything in alignment. With Hydra, one pawl is being smashed into oblivion until the next pawl engages, and that pawl is being smashed to a lesser extent until the next pawl engages, and so on. The load mechanism seems to be purposely enforcing an eccentric rotation furthest out from the most smashed pawl. One might argue that this eccentricity will eventually occur everywhere around the ring, so it balances out, but it also seems that over time this would introduce slop (or blunt the pawls).
I can't image any mechanism, hub or otherwise, where this is preferred over equal distribution of load.
That's a really good explanation; thanks. I observe that engagement failures frequently occur in synchronized multi-pawl systems, so Hydra addresses this problem. I should have read the article more closely, as it mentions this.
@logcabm77:
If you watch the Hydra slo-mo video, the pawl engagement sequence is not adjacent. It's the traditional balanced load sequence, three points around the ring. This should address your last concern.
www.facebook.com/Industry9
The I9 aluminum spokes are thicker and prettier than a steel spoke but they are not stronger or stiffer!
Spokes will fail from fatigue, both steel and aluminum. Of course it is way less common than catastrophic failure in mountain biking. It happens most commonly on nondrivside spokes if they are not tensioned enough because they will go completely slack under heavy load, like a flat landing from a drop, this repeated cycling of going slack and retensioning will greatly weaken the spoke over time. This won't be an issue if the wheel was built up properly with enough tension to begin with though.
And I'm with @JohanG that aluminum is much worse than steel at handling fatigue.
In all seriousness though, when you're pedaling all freehubs are silent
sales@onyxrp.com or (320) 295-7652
I'm also not trying to drive business to Onyx in an I9 review. I mentioned it just because the knock on Onyx is that they are 'heavy' but that never bothered me.
But in real there's always enough friction to start tilting the sprags in the other way, then as soon as they get caught in the little grooves of the inner an outer circles everything gets blocked and the hub engages, right ?
So physically speaking, there's probably a very very light noise right ? (my brain is stupidly precise sometimes :p)
Or is the flex great enough that all 6 pawls will engage to evenly distribute it?
Most would think the freehub would be pushed 180° from the single pawl that is engaged, but its actually rotated into itself. You have to imagine that the tip of the pawl engaged with the drive ring is your fulcrum point. If you apply torque to the system with that as a fulcrum, it is going to inherently rotate back and up. therefore, that is where you want the location of your proceeding pawl to engage.
A few things to keep in mind is that the amount of allowable deflection is comparable to most manufacturing tolerances. Every material will flex, you can't think of these metallic components as being 'rigid'. Everything acts as fluid when enough force is applied, but you don't want to exceed the materials yield strength. Bearings come in different allowable clearances.
DT Swiss 240s > Everything else.
on the road bike, 18T is more than enough, though
The DT240 is considerably lighter and one of the easiest hubs to maintain.
Ted : Yeah, sure, 8-Minute Abs. Yeah, the excercise video.
Hitchhiker : Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 7... Minute... Abs.
Ted : Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.
Hitchhiker : Think about it. You walk into a video store, you see 8-Minute Abs sittin' there, there's 7-Minute Abs right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?
Ted : I would go for the 7.
Hitchhiker : Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute folk.
Ted : You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?
Hitchhiker : If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes, we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".
Ted : That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 6-Minute Abs. Then you're in trouble, huh?
[Hitchhiker convulses]
Hitchhiker : No! No, no, not 6! I said 7. Nobody's comin' up with 6. Who works out in 6 minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.
Ted : That - good point.
Hitchhiker : 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
Ted : Why?
Hitchhiker : 'Cause you're f*ckin' fired!
The only variance I can think of is the fitting/seal between the hub and the freehub... Is there standards for this, or is every manufacturer different?
i.e. Am I being stupid, or could you just buy the freehub and mount it to a different hub?
Hydra and Torch are two different systems, using different FH bodies, axles, bearings and driverings. So the parts do not have "plug and play" intercompatibility.
Thanks I9 for the reply though!
We have a revised axle/endcap for 15x110 spec only. This change aims to promote longer wear on the front hub bearings. We're no longer using a "floating" axle spacer, but rather a solid axle.
Thanks!
Not complaining, just asking the why?
I don´t want a fast engaging freehub, because some degree of free movement can decrease the pedal kickback on the crank arms. And that is a bigger advantage for me than quick engagement.
The suspension can work more freely.
Lol oh ya, you can feel that 2% less drag while riding?!
service AT industrynine DOT com
But if it does slip, the teeth are pretty small and only a little rounding off might be enough start causing problems. I certainly won't be rushing out to buy these until people have had a year or two of hard riding on them and can report back.
Hopefully packing it with enough grease would silence it :-O
I don't think you know what you think you know about points of engagement.
With all those POG HOW well does it Fakie?
Either way, cool idea with the out of phase pawls. I'll never pay for hubs like these but you cannot deny that they are nice and appear well built!
"Our hub that only engages 1 pawl at a time is better than one that engages 4 pawls at a time, because ours avoids engaging only 1 pawl at a time"?!?!?
f*cking marketting bs overdrive....
Time to organize and get that legislature OUT brother!!