Review: Industry Nine's New Hydra Hubs Have 690 Points of Engagement

Feb 12, 2019
by Daniel Sapp  


For over a decade now, Industry Nine's high end hubs have clicked along with 120 points of engagement. That's a lot of engagement for a bicycle hub, and there really aren't too many other options out there which rival it. Chris King's hubs have 72 points of engagement and have long been considered a standard, and then Project 321's hubs have 216. Onyx uses a sprag clutch system for instantaneous engagement, but that's a clutch system, and it's best to compare clutches to clutches and pawls to pawls.

There are a few more choices out there, but Industry Nine have always been up towards the front of the pack when it comes to points of engagement, and with the new Hydra hub they've taken things even further. The Hydra hub has only .52 degrees between engagement points thanks to a 115-tooth drive ring with 6 pawls working in 6 phases. The weight of the updated system is a few grams less than the older Torch hubs.
Industry Nine Hydra Wheelset Details
• 27.5" or 29" (tested) system options
• Aluminum and carbon rim options available
• 28/32 spokes, aluminum system and J-bend available
• 6-pawl, 6-phase, 115-tooth drive ring
• .52 degrees between engagement points
• 11 different colors in system wheels
• 2-year warranty
• Wheelsets from $975, Hubsets from $650
industrynine.com

The new Hydra hub system isn't just a higher tier option in their line. It replaces their current Torch series hubs completely, and it's joined by a new more value-oriented 101 series hub set with 90 points of engagement.


The older Torch series, left and Hydra, right have a different pawl, drive ring, and bearing system.


Construction

According to Industry Nine, having the highest engagement wasn’t the principle goal with Hydra - the primary goal was to make the most durable high engagement hub system possible.

A standard pawl driven system has between two and four pawls that engage simultaneously, a design that's intended to equally distribute the load around the drive ring and freehub body. That's the theory at least, but when you’re actually riding down the trail there are a lot of different forces acting on the bike and flexing just about everything on it, including the hub shell, axle, and drive ring; there’s constant movement and stress in the system. Occasionally, with all of those outside forces, you’ll end up with a single pawl engagement. This adds a big cantilever load to the freehub body and the freehub bearing as well as the drive side hub shell bearing. This can lead to accelerated bearing wear, freehub body wear, and it can impact the efficiency to the system because the bearings that are supporting the freehub are taking an increased load.

With Hydra, there’s a 115-tooth drive ring, and 6 individually phased pawls, equally spaced from each other. This means that all of the pawls, and the teeth on them, catch the teeth on the drive ring individually instead of simultaneously. That means that each time you move the drive ring one tooth over you’ll get six individual clicks. The Hydra system also uses a leaf spring system under the pawls instead of the tiny coil springs found on the Torch system.


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In the video, you can see the difference in the phasing of the older 3-degree and new Hydra design.

You have one leading pawl that starts to take the load or force from pedaling, but because the pawls are phased close together and the tooth count is so high, as soon as you apply torque to the system, or pedal, a second, third, and fourth pawl will start to take some of the torque load and evenly distribute the load. It utilizes the inherent flex in the drive system to transfer the torque and ensure that a single pawl will never take the entire load. This is where Industry Nine claim that their system has an advantage over a traditional pawl system that can’t limit that flex - they say it limits and minimizes wear and tear on the system and provides a more consistent ride.

With the new freehub design there's also a new bearing and axle configuration on both the front and back. The new design uses a smaller diameter axle and a larger bearing. The rear axle is now a 15mm spec, down from 17mm. This was done to increase bearing life and to be compatible with Shimano's Micro Spline freehub. The other reason for the change was to increase the stiffness of the axle system. The 15mm axle now makes a direct contact with the thru bolt, making a stiffer axle system overall. Not to be left out, the front hub also gets a new axle as well.


Industry Nine's two new freehub bodies - 101 and Hydra on top and then their older Torch below.



Ride Impressions

The first thing that I noticed with the wheels is that the loud, at times almost annoying “metallic rattlegator” sound that Industry Nine have become known for is much more subdued. It’s not quiet, but it’s less disturbing. If you’ve ridden Chris King or Project 321 hubs, it has a similar tone to those two now, more of a growl. There’s still a bit of I9 in there, but it’s much subtler. 

Usually after a half dozen rides or so, the wheels would get louder as the grease thins out but so far things are purring right along, and I’ve put a solid 30 hours, many of those in poor conditions, on the wheels.

Now to the other part and what actually matters - 690 points of engagement…can you even tell? Plain and simple, yes. When switching from the older Torch wheels or the Project 321 hubs over to the Hydra hubs there was a very noticeable difference, similar to the sensation that occurs when you switch from a traditional pawl system with far less engagement to either of those.

Does having that much engagement in the hubs make you a better rider? No, not at all, and it’s probably not going to help you get through any bit of trail you previously couldn’t clean. However, you can tell that it’s a high-quality system and it feels good - there’s no lag that I can tell when I’m crawling up technical terrain; the half-degree between engagement points essentially feels instantaneous and makes getting through tight spots seem more fluid.

The new hubs are advertised to have less drag than the old Torch system and riding them proves this true. As far as bearing life goes, I haven’t had any issues thus far and I’ve ridden in some pretty sloppy conditions that tend to help shake those to the surface rather quickly.


Hub shells come from a solid chunk of aluminum and pawls are cut from a sheet of steel.




Pinkbike's Take
bigquotes690 points of engagement sounds pretty silly, really. Is it necessary? Time will tell whether the system is all that much more durable than traditional pawl driven set-ups, which is in my mind its biggest selling point. There’s also no doubt about it that Hydra’s engagement is noticeably quicker, smoother, and so far, I can say it works exactly as advertised. 

If you have lusted after high amounts of engagement in the past, consistently wreck freehub parts because you’re putting down massive amounts of power, or just like nice flashy wheels, I9's Hydra system may be worth checking out.
Daniel Sapp








340 Comments

  • + 543
 0.5 degree engagement hubs, a wireless dropper...what's next- a 180mm travel hardtail?!?!
  • + 227
 @tomekdbc: r/woooosh
  • + 56
 DT Swiss starts a colab with Rolex and makes the 1099 points of engagement star ratchet.

High POE: Because when you pay 200$ more than you should for a rear hub you want something to brag about.
  • + 73
 Why bother with durable hubs when there'll be a new wheel/axle/freehub/spoke/rotor/merkin standard along in a year or two anyway?
  • + 9
 @bennorth: wrong site mate Big Grin
  • + 5
 @bishopsmike: a new merkin standard, brilliant.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Yeah but if you buy one that has Rolex on it as soon as you receive it you've made two grand!
  • + 18
 "Does having that much engagement in the hubs make you a better rider? No, not at all, and it’s probably not going to help you get through any bit of trail you previously couldn’t clean.....the half-degree between engagement points essentially feels instantaneous and makes getting through tight spots seem more fluid."

So Hydra won't make me a better rider but Hydra will make it seem like I'm a better rider? Got it.
  • + 4
 @bishopsmike: I thought leopard print merkins never go out of style....

www.pinksumo.com/gifts-c1/fun-stuff-c49/merkin-body-hair-p2225
  • - 14
flag WAKIdesigns (Feb 12, 2019 at 8:39) (Below Threshold)
 @dirtworks911: "So Hydra won't make me a better rider but Hydra will make it seem like I'm a better rider? " - no it will make you feel like you have a more expensive hub than most of the people you meet on the trail and that it was money well spent. It's more of a luxury item than performance item. Nothing bad about that. It's your money your body and all that... Children starving in Africa though...


*And as the brave Offendivists walked through the ravine, they came upon a Triggericon. They knew how dangerous those items are so they walked around it. But one of them, the SJ, he couldn't resist - he turned around and try to grab it with the end of his hallibard. As he touched it, a net shoot up the sky from the ground, capturing him. They heard the grunting laughter and a giant hand of a mountain troll picked him up and soon he was consumed. Offendivists only heard the agonal screams of their comrade being eaten alive... the crunching of the bones... the tears have been shed...
  • + 1
 They could have just fixed the piss poor seals and bearings they used and that would have been nice.
  • + 4
 Every other wheel manufacturer with $1300 wheelsets throws their entire stock in the garbage.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: to liberate north korea and rebuild syria
  • + 10
 @tomekdbc:
The joke
-------------
Your head


If you'll notice the joke has flown right over your head
  • + 2
 @thekleindoctor: Long past due IMHO ... you should see the old school merkins some of these riders are sporting... enough to put you off your overly hopped IPA Wink
  • + 1
 @Gills: Downvoted for telling the truth? Oh right, this is Pinkbike ;-)
  • + 1
 Wouldn't this result in all the force of pedaling being concentrated on a single pawl? Is that a good thing?
  • + 1
 @dirtworks911: I would say that going from 24-50 POE makes it easier to do technical climbs but i haven't tried anything with more POE than 56. Going from 56 to 690 might not make a difference but for med the previous step was HUGE!
  • + 0
 @LDG: 24 is too little for sure. 36-54 (DT) or 48 Hope is more than fine. Rode the Hope 88 trials SS hub and wasn’t that amazed. Jump from 24 to 36 is big, 36-54 noticeable, above? Everyone decide for their own. We are all picky about some things.
  • + 1
 @Gills: Fair point, hoping the improved axle and larger bearings help. The novel idea of so much engagement is going to attract a lot of customers.
  • + 1
 @PivotMach: I got one ordered for the rear. Let‘s see how it holds up. I ride a lot and am a heavy rider who likes steep technical climbs and has a background of trials riding. Smile
  • + 1
 @PivotMach: One can certainly hope so. I get the downvotes for my comment, but I actually own a set and still use them, it’s just a big letdown to pay that much for a wheel and have bearing seals that are like a screen door.
  • + 97
 I couldn't really engage with this article, it was apawling.
  • + 19
 yea total drag
  • + 20
 Are you saying something didn't click?
  • + 13
 I dunno, i appreciated the author's freewheeling writing style.
  • + 21
 They're just trying to create more buzz.
  • + 13
 This comment thread is just a hub for negativity.
  • + 10
 Shut yo ratchet mouths
  • + 1
 @Ajmarganski: it wasn’t a total drag, I just struggled engaging with it!
  • - 1
 this kickback may have some bearing on pb choosing to axle such articles in future
  • + 1
 Pawl has spoken and what he said has no bearing on the buzz created by the engagement of the gear.
  • + 74
 I would have been happy with just 69 points of engagement.
  • + 45
 420.69 points of engagement to go with a Vorsprung smashpot
  • + 35
 They should have stopped at 666 points if engagement.
  • + 27
 Sram insists in 28.99 points of engagement only.
  • + 3
 @nyhc00: Yessss, give me one in black, please.
  • + 6
 You’re on plus 69, I wanna give you props but can’t bring myself to move that number!!! :-)
  • + 62
 Any videos of audio at full speed freecoasting?
  • + 270
 It'll be ironic if it sounds like a dentist drill.
  • + 22
 @browntown40: Say what you want about the price, but schralpers love riding I9's because they hold up to the worst trail abuse you can give them, and the quick engagement translates to speed and power. Worth it to me (on a school teacher salary LOL).
  • + 5
 Head over to Bike Rumor's site. They have that video there.
  • + 13
 @Lokirides: Or get Onyx Hubs with instant engagement?
  • + 9
 Onix hubs are super heavy. Even the front one is heavier then St 240s. Or i9 hubs @NotNamed:
  • - 14
flag jamesbrant (Feb 12, 2019 at 8:28) (Below Threshold)
 @Lokirides: so 80k/yr with 2 months off a year?
  • + 29
 @jamesbrant: Dude, I have a masters degree and 8 years of experience, and I make less than 40k a year after taxes. I don't get paid for the 2 months of summer vacation. I guess teachers are treated better in Canada than North Carolina, but I'm not surprised. Teachers in NC are about the worst paid in America, thanks to the "right to work" no-union laws here. But don't get me started.
  • + 5
 @mojoriders: weight at the hub matters a whole lot less than weight at the rim/tire in terms of riding characteristics of a wheel.
  • + 3
 @browntown40: Been a while since I've heard a dentist's drill, but sounds like at full speed you might be right... youtu.be/QFyZM1vMwnI
  • + 2
 @Lokirides: Haha - just jokes in regards to the dentist comment. I9's are fantastic hubs.
  • + 6
 @Lokirides: I'm with you on the teachers salary man. Should be a teachers discount, public servants and all. Luckily my LBS offers one like 5-7% I can never remember, its not a lot but its something. Definitely want these on my next wheel set.
  • - 14
flag bogey (Feb 12, 2019 at 9:31) (Below Threshold)
 @Lokirides: so you’re saying that you’re doing well financially compared to most AND you get two months off? Nice!
  • - 3
 @Lokirides: Not hating on teachers in any way, but you knew the pay situation going in right?
  • + 1
 @Lokirides: sorry mate, couldn't resist, but i figured i was wrong. this is indeed the case with many (not all) Canadian teachers, especially with your education. they do work very hard though, i'm not denying that.
  • - 3
 @Lokirides: That is BS that someone with a masters makes under 40k a year. Makes me feel a lot better about my high school education and $45k per year income.
  • + 1
 @Cbc4447: Regardless of education you still have to put in your time, and that's how it should be.
  • + 10
 @lokirides Come to VT. Lotsa teaching jobs, better pay. It's hiring season and we are looking for 3-4 teachers alone in our small school in a resort town!
www.schoolspring.com/find/vermont_teaching_jobs_in_vermont.cfm
  • + 3
 @milestogo: And the riding (and skiing) are pretty damn good there too.
  • + 11
 @drunknride: Yep, something about my youthful idealism made me think there were more important things in life than a salary. I am a privileged guy anyway, and I don't mean to sound ungrateful- I just wish the pay scale were commensurate with the importance of the job and professional experience.
  • + 6
 @milestogo: Sorry, I love PISGAH!
  • + 1
 @Lokirides: I have no degree, make more than twice what you make in a year and get a much shorter vacation.

I don't understand the split between Masters degree and the shit pay that teachers get. In any other industry, a real masters would have you pulling 6 figures.
  • + 4
 @Poulsbojohnny: Both statistics and my anecdotal experience say this is not true. The median salary for a fresh PhD chemist is well under $100K. If they work in research it's like $70k. Even in industry a masters in science/engineering won't often pull in $100k+ for a new grad (software engineering being a notable exception).
  • + 1
 Ditto. I need to hear this thing in all it glory!
  • + 1
 @chinaboy: check out I9s insta stories www.instagram.com/industry_nine
  • + 3
 We'll be hosting a Facebook Live event tomorrow, 2/14/19 at 1pm EST with one of our engineers and our VP to answer some of the questions that we've been getting so far. Feel free to join in on the discussion if you'd like!

www.facebook.com/Industry9
  • + 26
 This will make pedal kickback worse though, right? Everyone loved how Aaron pulled off his chainless win, with many theorising that without a chain his suspension could be more supple. Put a 690-engagement hub on and you're only going to make the suspension/drivetrain interaction problem worse.
  • + 7
 By all means good for a hardtail or a BMX, or something with zero pedal kickback, but for most full-sus designs I think it'd make things worse.
  • + 10
 not really. Kickback affects when hub is engaged (climbing), so nevermind the hub/system.
As for how affects when coasting at higher speed, basically, it doesn't; when coasting at higher speed the motion in the freehub coming from suspension won't be fast enough to engage on the fast-spinning hub body (this comes from Antonio Osuna blog)
  • + 1
 Ye, I was going to suggest the same. I expected this to be covered in the review actually. Not sure whether this is a concern or not???
  • - 4
flag ismasan (Feb 12, 2019 at 5:21) (Below Threshold)
 can't believe my comment is being downvoted lol.
some reading for the easy triggers:
linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2012/12/kickback-en-bajadas-wm.html?m=1
  • + 2
 @ismasan: rootsandrain is clearly aware of the relationship between hub engagement and pedal kickback - that's why the question is asked. Your article refers to much fewer engagement points where there clearly isn't an issue.
  • + 16
 @Robo88: the experiment in the article states that coasting at 20km/h the angular speed of the freehub coming from suspension action is never equal or higher than the one in the hub body, so it doesn't really matter how many POE, it won't engage.
  • - 2
 @rootsandrain same exact question and concern. Where can I learn more? @IndustryNineOfficial
  • + 3
 @ismasan: You’ll get used to it if you keep posting. This is Pinkbike. Opinions are better than facts to those who “just know” stuff.
  • - 3
 @rootsandrain:

Hey, it'll give the dentists an excuse. "Yeah, my Strava time was slower thru the rock garden today because my new 690 pt hub was throwing off my rear suspension."

No hate on i9 or high end hubs.... non dentist/doctor here and happy Project321 owner. Silent pawls. Worth the money. And I'd consider these for my next build. I do like the more subdued sound. Nice vid on YouTube.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFyZM1vMwnI
  • - 3
 The pedal kickback still exists at high speed when coasting. This is because as bike speed increases, so does the speed that the suspension goes through it's travel.
  • + 0
 @ismasan: the model from Antonio does not cover the braking phase where the wheel often and for a very short laps of time stops rotating completely. In these moments the ratchet can catch up and pedal kickback occurs.
  • + 26
 These things are going to sound like a cicada mating call...
  • + 12
 hahaha~ Korea also describes it as a "cicada sound."
Smile
  • + 9
 If you ride too close to a Canadian/American embassy, you might trigger a panic of a ultrasound attack
  • + 1
 actually they sound like a shimano...spin casting reel... when the fish is running.
  • + 24
 Are Points of engagement the new water bottles mount ?
  • + 37
 Idk where do you mount a bottle at the Niagara Falls?
  • + 16
 @colincolin: that took me a second
  • + 8
 @colincolin: I see what you did there... And I like it.
  • + 19
 My brain refuses to accept the claim that one pawl engaged at a time equals more durability, even with their explainations. It is like the first engaged pawl is always going to deal with a bigger load than the others. Has anyone got a more solid details ?
  • + 22
 It's looks like they have designed flex in to the system. First pawl engages, system flexes, then a few more do. It only takes full load once a few Pawls were engaged. They have potentially taken the primary weakness of a pawl system and used it to get higher engagement. Fecking clever if it works.
  • + 49
 The beauty of the Hydra system is that it will never have just one pawl taking the full load under pedaling torque. Since the system uses a 115 tooth drivering with 6 individually phased pawls, when you are coasting, every 3.13 degrees of wheel rotation, or 1.14mm between each tooth on the drivering, yields 6 individual engagements. Meaning, as one pawl engages the two trailing pawls are respectively only .19 and .38mm away from engaging the drivering (a sheet of paper is .1mm thick). As soon as you apply torque, the natural flex inherent in the axle, freehub, drivering, and hubshell allow the second and third pawl to come into contact and share the torque load. This distributes the load in a controlled matter, which precludes premature bearing or freehub wear that can occur in conventional pawl driven systems when only a single pawl engages due to flex, vibration, or inconsistencies in production tolerances.
  • - 25
flag slapmackie (Feb 12, 2019 at 6:44) (Below Threshold)
 @IndustryNineOfficial: "Speak english Doc, we ain't scientist" ~Dewey Cox's Father
  • + 26
 @slapmackie: First pawl comes to party. Then his buddies start to show up. Now everyone helping.
  • + 1
 @acali: I get the concept, I've just been dying to use that quote, it parties
  • + 4
 @IndustryNineOfficial: thanks a lot, my brain is happy now Smile
  • + 3
 @IndustryNineOfficial:
It still doesn't sound good to me. With the 3-degree hub, three evenly distributed pawls are helping bear the load equally around the ring, 33.3% each, and keeping everything in alignment. With Hydra, one pawl is being smashed into oblivion until the next pawl engages, and that pawl is being smashed to a lesser extent until the next pawl engages, and so on. The load mechanism seems to be purposely enforcing an eccentric rotation furthest out from the most smashed pawl. One might argue that this eccentricity will eventually occur everywhere around the ring, so it balances out, but it also seems that over time this would introduce slop (or blunt the pawls).

I can't image any mechanism, hub or otherwise, where this is preferred over equal distribution of load.
  • + 2
 @IndustryNineOfficial: Given that the system relies on flex to engage additional pawls, isn't the 690 number a bit misleading?
  • + 4
 So if the first pawl engages, but then the system flexes until 3 are in contact, isn’t it essentially flexing from what would be a .5degree gap to a 1.5 degree gap? Effectively negating the point of having the 690 poe? Basically once you let off the load it will first have to unflex that 1 degree, and then turn another .5 degrees before the next engagement point. Even once all three are engaged, that first pawl is still going to have significantly more stress on it than the other two. also, why have all three engaging on the same side, and not just have them engage equidistant from each other? @IndustryNineOfficial:
  • + 1
 @AAAAAHHH my brain agrees with your brain.
  • + 16
 @tripleultrasuperboostplusplus: You are correct that the Hydra system does allow a small amount of eccentric rotation accommodated by flex. However, the amount of rotation is very small and that rotation essentially stops once the third pawl engages. The load is fully supported by the three pawls at this point and the materials in the drive ring, pawls, and FH body are not anywhere close to their yield point. In a traditional 3 pawl or 6 pawl phased MTB freehub, if you have three pawls engaged at the same time the load on the system is neutral. However, since there is constantly flex being introduced into the system when you are riding, it is fairly common for only a single pawl to engage in a symmetrical system. When this happens the FH is subject to large uncontrolled eccentric rotation which can cause premature bearing wear or in extreme cases, material deformation to the FH body. Our Torch MTN system was built to withstand these loads by utilizing an oversized drivering to reduce peak cantilever loads and a double row inner FH bearing with a higher load rating than most hubs on the market. However, the Hydra system eliminates these extreme stresses since the continuously phased pawls always allow the two trailing pawls to back up the initial pawl that has engaged limiting the system to a small amount of controlled flex.
  • + 9
 @IndustryNineOfficial: So if I get it, as an even system gets slightly uneven when it's moving, you designed an uneven system that gets more even when it's moving, and ends up being more even than the initially even system, right ?
  • + 2
 @IndustryNineOfficial: have you had any problem with freehub body distortion? My p321 pawl pockets were shagged.
  • + 1
 @IndustryNineOfficial:
That's a really good explanation; thanks. I observe that engagement failures frequently occur in synchronized multi-pawl systems, so Hydra addresses this problem. I should have read the article more closely, as it mentions this.

@logcabm77:
If you watch the Hydra slo-mo video, the pawl engagement sequence is not adjacent. It's the traditional balanced load sequence, three points around the ring. This should address your last concern.
  • + 2
 I’ve watched it several times, and I can’t see what you are taking about. It seems that they all engage sequentially in a counter-clockwise direction, which also goes along with what I9 said above about the two “trailing” pawls engaging. @tripleultrasuperboostplusplus:
  • + 2
 Thanks for that explanation, that actually does clear things up a lot. I never realized that traditionally phased pawls often only engage one pawl at a time, which explains how this will ensure more engagement at any given time. With that being said I’m still unsure why it is set so that the two trailing pawls serve as the “back ups” rather then phasing it to do the same thing but just equally spread across the circle. I’m sure it would be a lot trickier to work out mathematically and to keep it balanced tho. @IndustryNineOfficial:
  • + 3
 We'll be hosting a Facebook Live event tomorrow, 2/14/19 at 1pm EST with one of our engineers and our VP to answer some of the questions that we've been getting so far. Feel free to join in on the discussion if you'd like!

www.facebook.com/Industry9
  • + 14
 The only thing these hub manufacturers need to ‘engage’ in, is a deal with Onyx hubs to use their instant engagement system which makes all this ‘teeth, pawl and ratchet’ talk seem archaic and laughable
  • + 10
 but there are people that want a sound coming from their hub (me for example) and the Onyx is silent.
  • + 49
 @wiesejunge: After riding for nearly 15 years total, and having ridden Onyx for the last two, I really can't understand why anyone wants extra unnecessary noise coming from their bike.
  • + 45
 and then make it weigh less than a boat anchor.
  • + 29
 @watchmen: Yep... I9 weight 286g and Onyx 473g...
  • + 46
 @TheStabbyCyclist: It helps alert hikers and other cyclists you are near. And it makes it impossible to surprise a bear.
  • + 6
 @benhildred...Thank-you!! My Project 321 hubs are "virtually" silent, but my Onyx are completely silent and I wouldn't have it any other way.
  • + 10
 @FindDigRideRepeat: I use a Timber! bell to warn hikers when riding multi-use trails. Nice thing about that is I can turn it off. Can't turn off your hub noise. That said, the weight of an Onyx hub is definitely a big downside, although I'm pretty sure they're working on reducing the weight.
  • + 16
 can I get hubs that scream "AAAAAGH" as I coast down the trail?
  • + 3
 When the Onyx needs service they make some terrible sounds. My buddy's makes a nasty creak/pop every so often - sounds like a truck that is used for scrap metal runs. I do agree though - silence is golden.
  • + 1
 @Sethimus: Haha, i´ve just watched that episode yesterday! Big Grin
  • + 1
 Anyone can explain how a sprag cluth works ? Well I mean,I get it but more precisely, why does it engages in one direction but not in the other even if it's not spring loaded ?
  • + 2
 @Will-narayan: I dont think this is exactly the same as the Onyx - but the mechanics are the same. www.gmnbt.com/images/GMN_Clutch.gif
  • + 9
 @TheStabbyCyclist: I need the noise to cover up the sound of my bottom bracket creak, cryo-creak on my fork, rattling of internal cable routing, saddle rail mount, rotors rub, etc, etc...
In all seriousness though, when you're pedaling all freehubs are silent
  • - 2
 @Moskit: what do the new onyx weigh in at? I had heard they brought the weight much closer to normal hubs
  • + 7
 @FindDigRideRepeat: I agree it's actually good to have some noise. I'm always riding up behind people and trying to make some clickity-click with my shifters or something when I'm on my silent DT240's so I don't always have to yell out to them. For whatever reason even when being polite people don't seem to love "on your left" or "on your right". Now my other bike with the i9 torch, they hear me before I even know they are up ahead.
  • + 4
 Totally agree. I love my onyx hubs. I've got em. On both my bikes. The low drag, instant soft engagement, and silence makes them worth the weight.
  • + 0
 @FindDigRideRepeat: And don't forget about dip$hit hunters...
  • + 1
 @gotohe11carolina: Aha! Hence Blenki!
  • + 4
 @yupstate: IDK why but people love bells but hate hearing your voice. I've been told "thanks for ringing your bell!" countless times but only get dirty looks from "on your left".
  • + 1
 Ben, I think around 5 people at the shop that you briefly worked at in Canada run I9 hubs and no-one runs Onyx. I like Onyx hubs but silence isn't everything. Weight and reliability are also important.
  • + 4
 @BEERandSPOKES: There's people out there hunting dipshits?!
  • + 3
 @hardtailparty: New lighter hubs are about to come out. I luv Onyx and Made in the USA, too.
  • - 2
 @FindDigRideRepeat: get a bell. The noisy hubs argument as a positive thing is tired and inaccurate. When you're pedaling all hubs are silent.
  • + 1
 @endlessblockades: new lighter hubs? Do tell... where did you read/hear this? I'm about to order another set of Onyx so if I need to wait I will... However, I'm known for waiting and then finally ordering and the very next day the new ones are released.
  • + 1
 @wilbloodworth: No, actually the loud hubs being too loud therefore I won’t run them, is old. Put proX grease in them and what do you know...silent.
  • + 1
 @wilbloodworth: I'm not qualified to talk about it in detail. Give them a call or email:

sales@onyxrp.com or (320) 295-7652

I'm also not trying to drive business to Onyx in an I9 review. I mentioned it just because the knock on Onyx is that they are 'heavy' but that never bothered me.
  • + 1
 @browntown40: Thanks, but my brain is annoying and wants to understand what triggers the engagement again : In a perfect system, in the void, with no air, no gravity, no friction, the sprag could stay titlted even when the axle changes direction right ?
But in real there's always enough friction to start tilting the sprags in the other way, then as soon as they get caught in the little grooves of the inner an outer circles everything gets blocked and the hub engages, right ?
So physically speaking, there's probably a very very light noise right ? (my brain is stupidly precise sometimes :p)
  • + 1
 FYI easily silenced with a few drops of Phil’s Tenacious Oil @TheStabbyCyclist:
  • + 0
 @Will-narayan: about as much noise as a front hub. The decreased rolling resistance is another great feature to the onyx.
  • + 0
 @Will-narayan: Silent to my ears.
  • + 9
 Go to Moab. Break a spoke or two. Now, you get to take your tire off, take the tape off, replace your spoke then deal with getting it back together. You're camping and the wind is blowing dirt in everything. Royal pain. I have several wheels with proprietary spokes, and I will never ever buy another one. J bend spokes and straight forward non alloy nipples.
  • + 40
 Not everyone is a fan of propriety parts often found on system wheels. We get that, so we offer the Hydra drive mech in our Classic platform that'll use a standard j-bend spoke.
  • + 2
 @IndustryNineOfficial: Is there anywhere to hear the new hub at full song? I'm intrigued.
  • + 3
 @endlessblockades: I’ll have something special for you next week....
  • + 8
 If you break a J bend spoke it's a pretty similar process?
  • + 1
 Funny you mention that. The only time I've seen I9 for real was in Moab as well. My friend's son put the bike down on a technical climb and ping a spoke broke. We were quite surprised how easily the breakage occurred. His dad was pissed !
  • + 1
 Most every time you have to replace a J-bend spoke it also means replacing the nipple. Which means having to go through the exact same process you just described. Only with I-9’s you simply drop the spoke through the rim, start threading it in and then bring it back up to tension. Which is like 100 times easier then threading a j-bend spoke back through the hub shell, (which on the drive side will require you to pull the cassette) and then interlacing it through the right spoke and then attaching the nipple.
  • + 2
 @vggg: Could have just as easily happened with a steel spoke. I’ve seen plenty of broken steel spokes the same type of accident. I’ve been riding I9’s exclusively for over a decade now and every wheel I’ve had has ended up with spokes dented, bent, gouged, etc. and the wheels stay true af. The few breaks I’ve had on the trail didn’t have enough effect on the wheel to keep me from riding out of the woods.
  • - 1
 @vggg: The amount of side load on a wheel that will snap a spoke is quite small. I snapped a Sapim Race on a two week old wheelset by holding the bars and flipping the bike around so it landed on the rear wheel at an angle. Ping!

The I9 aluminum spokes are thicker and prettier than a steel spoke but they are not stronger or stiffer!
  • + 2
 Wrong, the tensile strength is equal to or greater than most steel spokes. They are also waaay stiffer because of the diameter and material. They deflect so little using a tensiometer that at equal tension they read way higher than a steel spoke.@JohanG:
  • - 1
 @Satanslittlehelper: You are wrong. Some basic engineering calculations show they have identical stiffness to a 1.8mm steel spoke. And if you want to argue that aluminum is better at fatigue than forged 18-8, I have a bridge to sell you.
  • + 1
 Hahaha,ok guy! Please tell me what basic engineering calculations you’re referring to. Outside diameter is an enormous factor in making a cylinder stiffer. You’re basically arguing that a quick release skewer is stiffer than a through axle. You can do a super simple test using any steel spoke next to an I9. Use the edge of a table and hang the same amount of weight off of each and see which one deflects more. No one said anything about fatigue life, but I know people ten years in on wheel sets with same spokes still on them. All spokes on bicycle wheels get broken from outside forces, no one rides anything to point of breaking from fatigue. You also seem to be failing to grasp that as a system the 1 piece aluminum spoke design makes for a much stiffer wheel than any j-bend ever could. The j itself is a stress rise and weak point on the spoke. It also moves where it’s hooked into the hub shell when under load. The threads cut into a steel spoke become the thinnest and weakest point on the spoke. An I9 spoke tapers so its at it’s thickest where the threads are cut. A spoke nipple also allows for movement under load. So, the 1 peice aluminum spoke eliminates 2 weak spots on the spoke itself and also eliminates 2 flex points, one at the hub and one at the rim. Even if the spoke itself wasn’t stiffer, which it most certainly is, the 1 peice straight spoke threaded directly to the hub is inherently a stiffer, stronger wheel. @JohanG:
  • + 0
 @Satanslittlehelper: Stiffness of a wheel doesn't come from the lateral stiffness of the spokes so your example of hanging weight off of a spoke clamped to a table isn't really useful, assuming the same rim and hub how much the spoke will stretch under tension is what effects the stiffness of the wheel. You could make spokes out of cable or rope if you wanted to as long as they were tensioned up properly (I'm pretty sure someone did this for a study, I'll try to find the link to it). Butted steel spokes address the issue of the threads being the weak point, and straight pull spokes address the issue of the weakness at the j-bend. As for the the nipple allowing movement, yeah it does but since wheel stiffnes comes from the tension in the spokes not how much they are able to bend it doesn't matter for wheel stiffness, also i9 spokes can have some movement at the rim I believe, it's not like they are welded in there.

Spokes will fail from fatigue, both steel and aluminum. Of course it is way less common than catastrophic failure in mountain biking. It happens most commonly on nondrivside spokes if they are not tensioned enough because they will go completely slack under heavy load, like a flat landing from a drop, this repeated cycling of going slack and retensioning will greatly weaken the spoke over time. This won't be an issue if the wheel was built up properly with enough tension to begin with though.

And I'm with @JohanG that aluminum is much worse than steel at handling fatigue.
  • + 1
 @Joeshreds: The example is useful in that it proves the only point I was arguing, which is that the I-9 spoke is stiffer. But thanks for adding a bunch of misinformed opinion to the debate, then debunking your own argument about spokes failing from fatigue. Of course steel has a better fatigue life, but that's still irrelevant to the conversation and I never argued that to begin with.
  • + 7
 Absolutely love the sound of a singing hub! It’s all part of the trail music experience. The sound of knobs in the dirt, the squelching oil in the shocks, the sssssss as your pads just touch the rotors, and the zzzzzzzzing sizzle of a hub! That’s all combined with actual physical bodily feedback to every sound in a veritable trail concerto! The owner of a local bike shop here who just attended a tech clinic in which I9 was one of the presenters stated that these hubs sound like “Angels singing”
  • + 2
 @fattyheadshok to each is own I guess. I prefer the sound of nature instead of the mechanical nightmare scaring off all the wildlife. It's like the jackasses who own Harleys.... yeah, we don't get two $hit$ about your Harley... don't force me to listen to your noise pollution.
  • + 0
 @wilbloodworth: certainly to each his own. I9 hubs don't seem to carry all too far in contrast to Harleys. honestly as long as theyre not being sported by Joeys high-posting over chunk, slow I9s sound the worst.
  • + 7
 With the teeth and pawl notches being so small, you'd think they'd be more susceptible to grit and grime. When my King hubs have had a season of hard use without a cleaning, and the rides drop to below freezing, the moisture and grime freeze in the ring drive, leading to poor engagement. This seems like it has the potential to be worse still with such small engagements. Maybe they have really good seals?
  • + 16
 We have been testing versions of Hydra for over two years in a huge variety of conditions. The system has proven incredibly durable, and all of our test wheels are still operating on their original bearings. Even though Hydra uses smaller teeth vs. our Torch hubs, since the system guarantees you will always have multiple pawls taking the drive load, it actually has a higher torque carrying capacity than our Torch product.
  • + 1
 @IndustryNineOfficial: our torch hub axle broke and thought it would be taken care of because they’re not cheap but I got hit with a fee and you guy reinstated the old bearings! I questioned that and I was told this is common practice! Got rid of that wheel so as I could after I took it apart and installed NEW bearings! Do you guys actually know it hard on bearings to remove them and heck bearings are actually cheep. Most overrated stuff on the market!
  • + 8
 I had low engagement hubs at some point and thought I wanted high engagement hubs. Then I got better at pedaling.

DT Swiss 240s > Everything else.
  • + 1
 With the 54t upgrade. You can feel the difference The 36t is ok but lacking
  • + 2
 @dchill: I have a friend with a 54t. I have a 36t on my 240 and I can feel the difference, but not enough for me to want it. Heck, I have a 350 with an 18t on my hardtail and I'm not really wishing I had nearly instantaneous engagement. But to each their own.
  • - 5
flag lRaphl (Feb 12, 2019 at 5:58) (Below Threshold)
 @Almazing: My mountain bikes has 24 poe, my road bike 52 poe and my fat bike 72 poe. I can't really feel the difference when I ride.
  • + 2
 They sure have solved that one-pawl issue that killed a few of my previous hubs. Without being pricey or heavy. I honestly can't see ever buying a different rear hub than a 350 with the 54T star.
  • + 3
 @dchill: i wished i had gone with the 54T over the 36T a couple times while teetering over a log, but that's been about it.

on the road bike, 18T is more than enough, though
  • - 2
 @dchill: I have the 54T upgrade in my DT240s... they still are woefully lacking compared to my Onyx hubs. They feel completely different... and not in a good way. They'll be replaced as soon as I have extra cash to get rid of them.
  • + 3
 @wilbloodworth: that’s comparing apples to oranges. The Onyx are a sprague clutch, instant engagement and boat anchor weight.
The DT240 is considerably lighter and one of the easiest hubs to maintain.
  • + 5
 @wilbloodworth: i've literally never heard anyone complain about DT Swiss 240 hubs before
  • + 6
 Props to I9 for continuing to push the boundaries. I've given my Enduro 305 wheelset an absolute thrashing, riding in all conditions, smashing in to every root/rock I can find with reckless abandon and they're still ticking along nicely. Way to make a solid product even more awesome.
  • + 5
 I applaud i9 for pushing innovation and not resting. On their laurels. They had great engagement before and now they got even better. I'm glad they're quieter too. I'm an onyx man myself, but if I didn't have onyx as an option, these would be my next hubs.
  • + 1
 Are you going to do a review for us on the you tube channel?
  • + 2
 Onyx man here too, Chris King second choice.
  • + 0
 @cyrways: Men of Onyx with hearts of coal.
  • + 5
 Looking at the slow motion video it looks like the pawls engage in order, so when as described the second third and fourth pawl engage it will be one sided, for example if 3 pawls engage then it's the 3 all on the same side so would be an uneven load, would it not of been better to have them engage as opposites to more evenly distribute the load as the extra pawls engage?

Or is the flex great enough that all 6 pawls will engage to evenly distribute it?
  • + 1
 This is a great point. If not all pawls are engaging at the same time, your "point of engagement " number is actually more like 3 pawls with 2 teeth per-pawl. So that's technically like 6 points of engagement, not 690. Now because of the 115 tooth driver ring, you would get that .5 degree rotation needed to engage the 6 or 8 or 12 points of engagement, depending on how much stuff flexes and what have you.
  • + 1
 It is intentional to have them all load on the same side because the amount it deflects can be tightly controlled and that is the direction the freehub is flexing.

Most would think the freehub would be pushed 180° from the single pawl that is engaged, but its actually rotated into itself. You have to imagine that the tip of the pawl engaged with the drive ring is your fulcrum point. If you apply torque to the system with that as a fulcrum, it is going to inherently rotate back and up. therefore, that is where you want the location of your proceeding pawl to engage.

A few things to keep in mind is that the amount of allowable deflection is comparable to most manufacturing tolerances. Every material will flex, you can't think of these metallic components as being 'rigid'. Everything acts as fluid when enough force is applied, but you don't want to exceed the materials yield strength. Bearings come in different allowable clearances.
  • + 1
 @mmdulken: Ya I was thinking of this whole concept wrong. I9, is engaging just one pawl at a time. I was still imagining all 6 paws engaging at once. so yes. they have 6, individually engaging pawls with a 115 tooth drive ring. That would be 660 actual engagement points per one revolution of the wheel. I was thinking initially, how many teeth are actually being engaged when you're pedaling. That's where I was thinking 6 pawls, each with two teeth, 12 points of engagement in an 115tooth drive ring. Not at all how I9 views the engagement of the hub.
  • + 9
 When will we get oval hubs to go with our oval chainrings?
  • + 1
 i want a rotary hub
  • + 4
 Hitchhiker : You heard of this thing, the 8-Minute Abs?

Ted : Yeah, sure, 8-Minute Abs. Yeah, the excercise video.

Hitchhiker : Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 7... Minute... Abs.

Ted : Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.

Hitchhiker : Think about it. You walk into a video store, you see 8-Minute Abs sittin' there, there's 7-Minute Abs right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?

Ted : I would go for the 7.

Hitchhiker : Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute folk.

Ted : You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?

Hitchhiker : If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes, we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".

Ted : That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 6-Minute Abs. Then you're in trouble, huh?

[Hitchhiker convulses]

Hitchhiker : No! No, no, not 6! I said 7. Nobody's comin' up with 6. Who works out in 6 minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.

Ted : That - good point.

Hitchhiker : 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.

Ted : Why?

Hitchhiker : 'Cause you're f*ckin' fired!
  • + 2
 I have an old 1971 Schwinn. It's a kickback, 2 speed. Sometimes, when you backpedal to shift, it takes 1-2 crank revolutions for the hub to "catch" and engage forward drive. Sometimes I wish for faster engagement, but this bike has a Solo cup holder on the bars, and it's not really used for performance riding. Wink But on my mountain bike, I have XT hubs, and I've never wished for faster engagement..... these I9s sure are pretty though.
  • + 4
 According to the spec sheet on their website for the new Hydra Enduro S, it weighs 0 grams and has a weight limit of 250lbs. Perfect for us weight weenie clydes!
  • + 6
 Ok now where can I find the i9 Torch series wheelsets on sale?
  • + 1
 Just bought some m50s torch for $1500 on competitive cyclist. Last one checked they had only 2 more in stock.
  • + 1
 @Shredocalypse69: We have 4 left.
  • + 6
 Anyone else just want the cool gizmo which they demonstrate the POE on?
  • + 6
 Ridiculous. I won't ride anything with less than 900 points of engagement.
  • + 1
 So I'm not one to brag but I actually had an idea like this. I'm not an engineer either. I said to myself, self if you can use three pawls for engagement, then if you do 6 but stagger it then you can cut your engagement degrees in half. And if you put in 12 and stagger them all at any given time you'll have three engaged only 30 degrees of Engagement between them instead of 90. And if you put it in a shitload then you can take it up to 690. I never actually thought of that number at the time but the theory is valid
  • + 3
 dang you should have been a millionaire m8
  • + 5
 What’s next? Titanium cranks arms? Oh wait...
  • + 2
 oh wait, another Asheville manufacturer. #AshevilleArmy
  • + 1
 At this point, what stops company to use one way bearing instead of a pawl system? Is it weight? Friction in those is very low, it's cheap and readily available, barely no engagement angle (probably on the sub degree like the hydra), evenly distribute the load...

Not complaining, just asking the why?
  • + 4
 I've got a profile elite ss rear with 5k miles on it and you've peaked my interestSmile Does it come SS specific?
  • + 1
 Are freehubs interchangeable between systems? Clearly the axle is going to be the same diameter, and also the width?
The only variance I can think of is the fitting/seal between the hub and the freehub... Is there standards for this, or is every manufacturer different?
i.e. Am I being stupid, or could you just buy the freehub and mount it to a different hub?
  • + 5
 Thanks for the question -

Hydra and Torch are two different systems, using different FH bodies, axles, bearings and driverings. So the parts do not have "plug and play" intercompatibility.
  • + 5
 I guess you didn’t read the article since they outline that it’s a new axle size but it’s the same original Torch hubshell.
  • + 1
 @carlomdy: I was considering just the inner axle size (12mm) and not the outer, so yes I was being silly!

Thanks I9 for the reply though!
  • + 2
 @IndustryNineOfficial: This article alludes to the front hub getting a new axle. What differences are there between Torch/Hydra front hubs?
  • + 4
 @miles-e:

We have a revised axle/endcap for 15x110 spec only. This change aims to promote longer wear on the front hub bearings. We're no longer using a "floating" axle spacer, but rather a solid axle.

Thanks!
  • + 1
 Pawl hubs are fragile, no matter how you make them, I9 already has a reputation for bearing failure, so spending more for a potential higher fragility hub is kinda nonsensical. Having run Onyx and DT Swiss for a few years with zero issues, it's hard to spend more and get less. I suppose some folks are suckers for a pretty color, but I'll take my bland looking DT Swiss 350 over a walk home any day.
  • + 1
 Also that fine an engagement is barely noticable in terms of faster pickup, but really noticable in terms of suspension induced pedal feedback. This hub will actually make a DH or enduro bike (ie, fairly long travel) slower at descending than an identical bike with a slower pick up hub.
  • + 1
 I wish there was an easy way i could 'go long' on these hubs. The contact points are frickin tiny, the number of contact drags per wheel revolution are off the scale and i9 ain't exactly loaded with foolproof hub history. I can smell a load of warranty and freehubs that last no time at all.
  • + 4
 Onxy rear hub weights over 1lbs!
  • + 2
 Is all of the force going into just one pawl? Or once power is applied is there something else happening that allows equal force to be applied throughout the ratchet ring?
  • + 3
 As the French would say, they're just butt fucking flies with this. I wouldn't argue.
  • + 13
 On n'est pas là pour enculer des mouches, et moi je suis pas venu déguisé en choux-fleur pour me faire brouter le cul par des lapins
  • + 7
 @Uuno: well... That escalated quickly.
  • + 5
 @Uuno: Come back Bernard, all is forgiven.
  • + 2
 "The new hubs are advertised to have less drag than the old Torch system and riding them proves this true."

Lol oh ya, you can feel that 2% less drag while riding?!
  • + 1
 Sure can- I didn’t get my percentometer out but the difference is noticeable.
  • + 3
 @danielsapp: This is from a Zipp engineer discussing over-tightened hub bearings, but the same principle applies: "The difference between a perfectly setup cartridge bearing hub and tight one as you describe is likely in the 0.2-0.5w range at 30mph, this isn't much, but the really big difference will come in bearing life."Less than a single watt at 30mph... To feel the difference in drag of any hub would be incredible.
  • + 3
 Just one pawl engaged at a time. Very cool and pretty amazing it can handle all the abuse.
  • + 2
 So, possible to use/upgrade a new drive ring and cassette body on my current i9 hubs?
  • + 1
 @IndustryNineOfficial , maybe send them in?
  • + 3
 We'll need some more details about specifically what kind of wheels you have - hit us up:
service AT industrynine DOT com
  • + 1
 @IndustryNineOfficial: Will do. That said, I have the classic Torch J bend Hubs. Aprox 3 years old. Thanks
  • + 1
 @bman33: I'll save you the trouble, they can't be upgraded. I have the same hubs, apparently they can't reliably get the drive ring out without damaging the hub shell. Oh well, not like the Torches are bad, I'll stick with 'em till I need new hubs.
  • + 1
 This is awesome! The more POE the better! I have Onyx Racing’s hubs and can never go back to the measly POE in a traditional hub
  • + 0
 Yeah even more annoying on the trail, now more buzzing more clicking. At least you wont get hit and run over by the owner of this super loud hub if you can hear it 200 yards away.
  • + 3
 Those tiny springs are gone? Hell yes!!!!
  • - 1
 6 pawls, 2 teeth per pawl engaged at a time, is 12 points of engagment. Half degree of rotation required to engage them. This math really isn't that hard. If you had 690 points of engagement, each pawl would need 115 teeth per pawl.
  • + 1
 www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB1PIcbgGok

I don't think you know what you think you know about points of engagement.
  • + 1
 Lol ya, that's not how Points of engagement works. Each pawl engages individually and there appear to be 19 points to engage between pawls. 115 points to engage around the whole hub, then since each pawl engages individually, 115 points time 6 pawls is 690 points of engagement.
  • + 2
 690 poe and not 1 video of the damn things in use so we can hear them at play.
  • + 1
 Does anyone make a ratchet hub sound that doesn't cause novice riders you come up on to panic and crash? Happens all the time, like they hear a rattlesnake
  • + 10
 Feature not a flaw.
  • + 3
 A true bear, bobcat, cattle deterrent wheel.... ZzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzZZzzzz
  • + 1
 I wonder if there will be a reliability penalty for having all those extra points of engagement.
  • + 1
 I figure it's like zero decimal something millimeters between engagement, so even if it slips, the slack will be instantly taken up.
  • + 1
 @Kramz:

But if it does slip, the teeth are pretty small and only a little rounding off might be enough start causing problems. I certainly won't be rushing out to buy these until people have had a year or two of hard riding on them and can report back.
  • + 2
 I wanna know more about the budget 101 series they are introducing
  • + 1
 0° 31' 18.26" - Not too shabby, but I'm pretty sure that 0° 29' 28.99" would be significantly faster.
  • + 1
 But won't it make that really irritating buzz sound?
Hopefully packing it with enough grease would silence it :-O
  • + 1
 "lusted after high amounts of engagement in the past"; HAVE THEY BEEN READING MY DIARY?
  • + 2
 Time to throw out my obsolete Torch hubs...
  • + 3
 I'll take em!
  • + 1
 Just checked the site and they don't offer 29" aluminum wheels anymore?? Or are they just on there way?
  • + 3
 We still have our full range of 29" offerings. However, the 29" wheel filter isn't quite dialed in on our new site. If you click on the 27.5" wheel filter and look at the models you are interested in, the specifications for the 29" wheels are on the product page. Thanks for your patience, while we get everything sorted out on the new site.
  • + 1
 @IndustryNineOfficial: Ah ok, thanks for the reply!
  • + 2
 need full speed/sound video~ ALSO, more slow-mo POE videos of other hubs!
  • + 1
 I often wonder on these type of hubs if they produce more pedal feedback on longer travel bikes?
  • - 2
 It's funny how Project 321 hubs have load ratings, 2 paws for light weight riders, 3 paws for heavier duty. Industry 9 is giving every one the middle finger by having just one option, one paw engagement. As if they're saying if you know what you're doing, you can do whatever the hell you want! I hope this one paw thing pans out for them. Good for them, good for all of us!
  • + 2
 Okay, this is getting ridiculous.
  • - 2
 If you have such a quick engaging freehub, you feel every degree of the pedal kickback of your rear suspension.
I don´t want a fast engaging freehub, because some degree of free movement can decrease the pedal kickback on the crank arms. And that is a bigger advantage for me than quick engagement.
  • + 3
 but you feel the kickback when the hub is already engaged and you're pushing, generally climbing at low speed, so in thet matter nevermind the hub/system.
  • + 0
 @ismasan: I only rode about the behavior in the downhills.
The suspension can work more freely.
  • + 3
 @ridingloose: I linked an interesting reading about that a few comments up
  • + 2
 Waiting for the used market to flood wth Torch Hubs Big Grin
  • + 2
 69 0 that's amazing. Even 420 poe are sufficient
  • + 2
 Please I9, do a BMX race version. My Hadley hubs have tons of POE too.
  • + 2
 Suddenly my rear wheel has exploded.
  • + 2
 I like it a lot.
  • + 1
 But what does is sound like?
  • + 3
 You have to go to bikerumor for that.
  • + 0
 The faster you go the less likely going too notice how many POG?
With all those POG HOW well does it Fakie?
  • + 1
 Can you change existing torch free hubs to hydra?
  • + 1
 No, you cannot.
  • - 1
 with more than 32 poe, i don't really think you need more. I have 72p now and there is no noticeable difference on the trails.
  • + 1
 The hub engages before the slack is out of the chain....uh......
  • + 1
 @Lokirides
Time to organize and get that legislature OUT brother!!
  • + 1
 Make flexy hub a feature. awesomeness.
  • + 1
 Cool, they will make me sound faster.
  • + 1
 Tiny teeth....can't be tough ?
  • + 1
 i9 are generally renowned for being stupidly reliable and they claim these are even more durable and with larger bearings....probably going to be tough
  • + 0
 @ryan77777: but what about those tiiiiiny teeth ?
  • - 1
 @ryan77777: reliable? That’s the first time I heard that. They are known to have bearing problems
  • + 1
 It produces a frequency so high only a dog can hear you ride by.
  • + 2
 Just too awesome!
  • + 1
 Roses are red, walls are made of plaster, my onyx hubs are still faster.
  • + 1
 I got 690 points but a skill ain't one.
  • - 1
 Why not put a 1 way bearing or 2 in there and do away with pawls completely? That would eliminate noise, wear, machining time/costs, prolly something else too...
  • + 1
 I like the idea, but from what I've seen, one-way bearings have quite a bit of backwards slip before engagement, then the actual engagement is "soft", not binary like pawl-and-tooth. I don't think this would feel right on the bike.
  • + 2
 All Hail Hydra!
  • + 1
 I love Pinkbike.thanks for information...
  • + 0
 Mega Boost 167 is just around the corner... Then your spicy hubs and XX1 eagle cassettes will be obsolete!
  • + 1
 does it come in 135x10 bolt up rear with steel freehub?
  • + 1
 the Torch series offered a similar setup so I wouldn't be surprised if they still offered it. give them a call, comment sections can't answer every question
  • + 1
 Whoa. The Anolab on their website is a mess.
  • + 7
 We're on it! New site, new problems to find and de-bug! If you place the product in the cart it will give you a price. Thanks!
  • - 3
 Flex in the hub body? Maybe an actual engineer can chime in, but from taking apart my Hope hubs I just don't understand how a solid piece of aluminum can flex much without breaking....

Either way, cool idea with the out of phase pawls. I'll never pay for hubs like these but you cannot deny that they are nice and appear well built!
  • + 6
 I believe it’s flex from the freehub body to the hub shell that they’ve calculated and used to their advantage. Not the hub shell itself flexing.
  • + 1
 "All other hubs flex and that's bad! Our hubs flex and that's good!"
  • + 1
 And there's me, still riding my Hope Pro 2's after all those years....
  • - 1
 why not a sprag clutch then ... so much drag and noise down there ! Really, ONYX is the way
  • + 0
 Why to create other hub than Hope...
  • + 0
 The axis will be pushed to one side....(I would have tested it, but...)
Smile
  • + 0
 All Aboard, Next Stop Drag City.
  • + 1
 Holy smoke!!!
  • + 0
 Profile elite
  • - 2
 These will sound worse then superstar hubs !!!! buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
  • - 1
 Precisely 10 times too much engagement
  • + 0
 Click click clickbait...
  • - 3
 Why do they keep talking about 0.5 degree of engagement when Onyx hubs have ZERO drag and instant engagement? Is I9 living on it's separate planet?
  • + 2
 No, you are wrong. They don't have ZERO drag or instant engagement.
  • - 3
 It appears in this instance 26" is indeed dead.
  • + 4
 No 26" hub option ?
  • + 7
 We still offer the EN305 and the GR300 in 26" - worry not!
  • + 5
 @IndustryNineOfficial: Thank you sirs. Love me some 26”
  • + 5
 It also appears at least 5 people who ride 26" are rather sensitive.
  • - 3
 Jesus Christ, Its like the bros in the marketing dept. are just seeing what they can get with at this point.
  • + 0
 *away with
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