Review: Pipedream The Full Moxie

Nov 9, 2020
by David Arthur  



The UK sure has a soft spot for steel frames, with lots of small brands to choose from, and I must admit to having a penchant for quality steel frames too. Pipedream has been helping to keep steel real for the past 15 years, but has just launched its first full susser, The Full Moxie, a 29er dishing out 146mm travel from a single pivot configuration wrapped with a beautifully made steel frame and swingarm.

The frame without shock costs £1,499, or you can buy a frame with DVO shock and fork for £2,348, with a £100 coil shock upgrade option. If you prefer to buy a complete bike and not get your hands mucky with some spannering, the company offers two build options: Trail Kit uses a Shimano Deore 12-speed groupset and costs £3,948 and the Enduro Kit gets a Shimano XT upgrade and costs £4,448, with a Jade X coil shock upgrade for £100.
Pipedream The Full Moxie

Travel: 146mm (r) / 150mm (f)
Wheel size: 29"
Frame construction: 4130 custom butted steel
Head angle: 64-degree
Seat angle: 77.5-degree
Sizes: Long and Longer
Weight: L w/o pedals 36.05 lb (16.35kg)
Price: £1,499 (frame w/out shock)
More info: www.pipedreamcycles.com

Due to the delays caused by the pandemic my build has a few different parts; the result is you can’t buy this exact bike, but there’s nothing to stop you from speccing a frame this way yourself. For reference, I tested The Full Moxie with a complete Shimano SLX groupset, Hope wheels, OneUp v2 dropper and Schwalbe tires.

bigquotes'Steel is real' is an oft used mantra, but The Full Moxie is proof, if it were ever needed, that geometry and suspension design are the most important when defining how a bike rides, not the material it’s made from. But there is something inherently special about a steel frame that is tricky to put into words. David Arthur






Pipedream



Construction and Features

Pipedream is known for its line of steel hardtails and there’s long been a full suspension sized hole in its range. The Full Moxie fills that vacancy with a good looking single-pivot machine boasting 146mm rear wheel travel and designed around a 150mm fork. The wheels are 29", but you can go mullet if you’re keeping up with the latest industry trends.

More than just borrowing its name from the company’s hardtail, there’s a shared tubeset that has been developed over several years with no unsightly reinforcing gussets as is often the case with steel frames. The frame is made from custom-butted 4130 tubing - a shame not to get a branded tubeset like Reynolds - with a focus on ensuring there’s adequate strength in key places to avoid any strengthening gussets. The result is an incredibly clean looking bike that emphasises the traditional appeal of steel. It’s about as far removed from a swoopy carbon frame as it gets.

The asymmetric swingarm is hewn from steel as well with an oversized main pivot, and to ensure there is ample stiffness in the rear end a special X-brace has been CNC machined from aluminum to connect the swingarm just above the main pivot. It’s a small detail but one that has clearly been the result of lots of development time. The shock yoke and mount have also been CNC machined.

All cables are routed externally along the top of the down tube and along the top of the chainstays, with internal routing for the dropper post. The low slung top tube and short seat tube provides capacity for a generous dropper post. With the shock positioned in the center of the frame, the mandatory bottle cage mounts have been moved to the underside of the down tube, which is less than desirable if you care about not ingesting mud and poo from the water bottle nozzle.

The frame comes in three colours, the pictured signature pink plus electric blue and rust orange.


Pipedream



Pipedream
Pipedream


Geometry & Sizing

pipedream

Pipedream has used its Moxie hardtail as the starting point for the geometry to ensure it’s up to the demands of the modern trail rider. There are just two sizes on offer, understandable given the small size of the company, but with short seat tubes and generous reach, a wide size range of riders should be catered for. Reach is 470mm on the Long and 510mm on the Longer, and both feature 420mm chainstays, 602mm stack and 77.5-degree seat angles. Head angle is 64-degree with a 44mm offset fork.

Pipedream

Suspension Design

For the company’s first attempt at a full-suspension bike they have kept things simple with a single pivot design, but look closer and there’s a lot of attention to detail on show. The neatness around the main pivot, the CNC brace and the yoke driving the shock all smack of tireless design and engineering to achieve a high level of quality. The compact asymmetric swingarm aids in the stiffness to ensure there’s no twisting flex to ruin the performance.

The Full Moxie delivers up to 146mm rear wheel travel from a 65mm stroke shock fixed to the down tube with the main pivot positioned just above the bottom bracket. A 62.5mm shock can be used to reduce travel to 140mm if you wish. The frame is designed around a 140 to 160mm suspension fork, with a 150mm travel 44mm offset fork fitted to my test bike.

Pipedream says it has developed a yoke-activated design using a long-stroke shock to allow it to tune the kinematics to provide a progressive spring rate that works with both air and coil shocks.

pipedream
pipedream








Test Bike Setup
At 5’11” I tested the shorter of the two sizes, since the 470mm reach is in my preferred sweet spot for the trail riding this bike is designed for. Setting the bike up was a relatively easy affair with saddle height, bar rotation and tire pressure set to my preferred settings.

Dialling in the suspension can potentially be a confusing challenge with lots of knobs and dials to play with but following the recommended settings got the bike to a really good place for quickly and then just a few adjustments after which I didn’t touch anything for the duration of the test period.

The DVO Topaz shock features an air bladder alongside the main air chamber for altering the spring curve, making it firmer or softer. I settled on 160psi for the air spring to achieve 30% sag and 170psi for the air bladder with 5 clicks of rebound and it worked well for me. The air bladder allows a big range of adjustment from softer to firmer and it’s worth experimenting with once you've set your sag. The Diamond fork is similarly highly adjustable, I opted for 105psi, 1 click for high-speed compression and adjusted the low-speed compression on the trail, from open when descending to firmer when climbing, with eight clicks of rebound and for the unique OTT (Off The Top) adjuster, I set that to three clicks from open. The DVO setup guide is recommended for solid base settings.

Testing was conducted mostly on local trails as lockdowns and travel restrictions have made trips to further away trails a little limiting, but conditions covered everything from dusty to muddy.


Merida Big Trail
David Arthur // Technical Editor
Age: 39
Location: Gloucestershire, UK
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 150 lbs
Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Instagram: @davidjarthur

Pipedream

Climbing

There’s no easy way around this, the weight of the Full Moxie does mean the climbing ability is tempered to a large degree. That additional mass is the inherent drawback of a steel frame compared to lighter aluminum and carbon, so if weight matters and you want a fast climbing bike the Full Moxie won’t reward. Dial back your ambition and expectation, though, and get onto a smoother logging fire road with less severe gradient and the Full Moxie is much happier.

There’s more to a bike's climbing ability than just weight, and here the geometry gives a helping hand. The steep seat angle pivots your weight over the bike nicely and the reach combined with a short stem makes for a comfortable climbing position on longer fireroad drags when you have to settle into the grind for a long while. On steeper climbs, the front wheel can tend to wander requiring shuffling forward on the saddle to keep the tire weighted and pointing forwards and not sideways.

The DVO shock has a three-position compression lever which is easy to reach on the move and flicking into the firmest setting helps on smoother climbs, minimizing any excess suspension movement without locking it out completely. Even in fully open mode, as desired for lumpy technical climbs, there’s no excess of movement from the shock. It’s well mannered and controlled in all climbing situations helping you to get to the top without much excess energy expended.

Traction is in abundance when tackling a root-infested climb with a layer of wet leaves and mud. The excellent tire choice helped as well, and the suspension pushing the rubber into every little nook and cranny made it possible to scamper up the most challenging climbs. The extra weight probably helps a little here, and even in my most tricky local climbs the Pipedream just feels so calm and collected it lets you focus on getting the power through the cranks.

If you like ripping up technical trails the Full Moxie will frustrate you, but get onto longer smoother climbs and it’ll settle into a nice rhythm and big trail rides from sunrise to sunset aren’t at all out of the question. Though with a sub-optimal water bottle mount you’ll be digging out your old hydration pack...

Pipedream

Descending

No doubt about it, The Full Moxie is happiest when you’re hurtling down a fun steep trail with lots of natural obstacles. With momentum behind you, it’s right at home with good balance and an appetite for tight turns and wide-open berms. To really make the most of its potential, the trails need to be steep and technically challenging because when they are, the Full Moxie rewards. It really does come alive and the weight fades away; it’s a good payback for the climbing efforts.

The geometry, great suspension and grippy tires make tackling technical descents hugely entertaining and very rewarding. It really is a very fun bike to ride and the stable ride, calm suspension, relaxed geometry all make it a very highly capable trail bike that excels on the descents. And as a skills boost, the Pipedream is quite impressive, helping me to master some tricky switchback descents that I’d previously struggled to conquer on other bikes. This bike can pivot on a dime, which helps to kick the myth that long 29ers can’t do tight corners into the long grass. So if you want a bike to make a better rider of you, take a closer look at the Moxie.

The handling is good and lets you focus on picking your line and where you want to place the tires, and the Full Moxie displays a pleasing level of agility that pins a massive grin on your face every time you’re descending. The balance is good, but as with many long bikes you do need to push your weight forward to get the front tire to grip and carve, but if you want to hang back the suspension is capable enough to soak up everything in its path. Going faster is rewarding on any bike, but with the Full Moxie it’s key to unlocking its full character and potential, and it’s really happy going flat out. There’s enough suspension travel to get out out of trouble in most situations; it’s predictable and will never catch you off-guard if you’re not paying attention 100% of the time as can sometimes be the case with lighter, more skittish bikes.

The suspension coped with everything nicely. It feels plush and soaks up impacts well giving a smooth ride through chundery roots. There’s ample progression to handle big impacts and drops well with no heavy bottom out. It’s easy to see the Full Moxie is aimed at trail riders wanting a bike for big rides in the woods, but the weight does favour a more gravity-oriented riding style where it’s about getting to the top as unflustered as possible and eking out one more run before the sunsets.

Pipedream





Swarf Contour 29er
Swarf Contour
Cotic Flaremax
Cotic FlareMAX


How does it compare?

There’s no shortage of steel bikes in the UK, with many small brands specialising in steel as it offers more freedom to design and engineer a bike over the big costs and lead times involved with aluminum and carbon fiber. The Cotic FlareMAX is a shorter travel steel bike that I’ve ridden (the RocketMax is arguably a better comparison but I haven’t ridden it) which is lighter and uses Reynolds 853 tubing for the brand snobs, and offers a similarly highly capable bike, but which is arguably a bit easier on the legs on the climbs. The Swarf Contour is even shorter on travel, but still big on character and uniquely individual in its design and appearance. Compared to them, the Full Moxie is more capable on technical and rough trails with more willingness on fast descents, but isn’t quite as fast a climber. What these bikes all prove is that steel is an appealing choice for those that want to buck the mainstream choices.


Pipedream
Pipedream


Technical Report

Shimano SLX/XT 12-speed: I’m glad to see Shimano finally back in the groupset game with some solid 1x offerings and SLX provides exceptionally good shifting performance and the brakes are good, with none of the vague bit point issues, though I’d prefer four-pot calipers on this bike.

DVO Topaz T3 Air shock: This is a highly tunable air shock with lots of customization available that will delight or scare riders. As well as being able to add additional volume spacers to the positive and negative air chambers, you can adjust the bladder pressure to soften or firm the shock. It’s a small range of adjustment, between 170 and 200 psi, but I found this adjustment adequate to get the shock into a happy place on the Full Moxie. If you love to fiddle with your suspension this shock clearly appeals, but even if you prefer to set and forget after some initial fiddling I’ve been very impressed with the performance of this DVO shock.

Schwalbe Magic Mary/Hans Dampf tires: Simply a winning tire combination that works well in all conditions from dust to mud, and is capable of finding tenacious grip even when faced with evil roots and jagged rocks.

OneUp 180mm dropper: Longer dropper posts are better and the 180mm works well, giving lots of bike-shaping room when descending and a strong pedalling position when climbing.

Pipedream


Pros

+ Confidence inspiring geometry and handling
+ Great suspension
+ Looks lovely

Cons

- It’s not light
- No room for a water bottle inside the front triangle




Pinkbike's Take
bigquotes There are many factors to consider when choosing a new mountain bike. If value, weight and components are important than the Full Moxie is a tough bike to recommend against lighter rivals, but there’s something special about steel, its toughness, durability and classic looks, that ensure it continues to be a viable and valid alternative to mainstream choices. And for that, I salute the Full Moxie. It’s a hell of a bike.  David Arthur









196 Comments

  • 137 8
 All bike reviews should include the exact frame weight as a matter of course. Take the hour or so needed to strip it down and put it on the scales. It's important info and it always gets debated in the comments.
  • 14 0
 @Paco77 100% agreed
  • 18 38
flag phutphutend (Nov 9, 2020 at 9:39) (Below Threshold)
 It's not the frame that makes this bike 36lb, it's the wheels and tyres!!

At most the frame will be about 1.5kg heavier than the lightest (but totally un-durable) carbon frame. Very similar to most ally frames and not much more than tough carbon frames.

Lots of brands (probably more savvy ones) put lightweight wheels and tyres on their bikes for tests. They are not appropriate for the riding being done, so the reviewers very quickly change them for something more suitable. However, the published weight is the one of the delivered bike with the incorrect tyres.

Reviewers shouldn't publish frame weights, rather run stock wheels and tyres! Weight will then suddenly be less important and all the comments will go away.
  • 14 0
 My guess is that frame is pushing 9 pounds with shock. Steel certainly is real
  • 60 0
 Hey Paco77, just for you I weighed the frame I have at the shop. Frame only in a Longer. Comes in at just under 9 pounds. Cheers!
  • 19 2
 @phutphutend: That doesn't make sense. Actually your argument further supports posting frame only weight to erase any questions and remove the 'heavy or light' components spec factor. As @SmithCreekCycle mentions, damn thing is nearly 9lbs/4kgs. Not saying it's a bad bike or doesn't ride well, but it's a tank
  • 8 6
 @phutphutend: carbon is "un-durable"? I have broken way more 4130 frames than carbon frames in my riding.

I do agree about a standard wheel and tire setup for testing. Wheels have an outsized impact on the overall performance of a bike. Since wheels can be a very expensive proposition to replace maybe just a standard tire setup would be more reasonable.
  • 6 0
 I would rather see actual measured geometry before bare frame weight, measured seat angle at real world height for starters.
  • 6 1
 I find that geometry is way more important than total bike weight. I have recently switched from a bike with a 76º seat angle to one with 80º. Both bikes are basically the same weight yet the I find going uphill to be way easier on the steeper 80º seat angle bike. It flies uphill!
  • 1 0
 True. But I expect bad numbers from lot of carbon frames to be fair. Specialized excluded.
  • 5 4
 @phutphutend: I've ridden and raced every material. Good carbon is plenty durable and actually more repairable than steel.
  • 4 0
 @phutphutend: That's uncannily accurate, my carbon frame is indeed 1.5kg (3.3lb) lighter. (Just under 9lb Moxie, 5.67lb Trance).

Honestly I don't think I'd feel 3lbs of static frame weight enought to make it a deal breaker. But on the flip side at 200lbs I have been hucking the carbon Trance and riding an old DH track for a year straight with no frame issues whatsoever...
  • 4 4
 @50percentsure: I'm capable of eating 2-3lbs in a single sitting lol. Most riders won't really notice a 36lb bike vs a 31lb bike. Hell, I've got 20-odd lbs of spare body fat, probably more. I'd happily trade 3.5 lbs for whatever other features I want in a bike. People get too wrapped up in frame weight (as opposed to wheel/tire etc, which is more easily felt).
  • 3 0
 I'm surprised there's so much negativity to my comment! Let put it another way, can you quantify using science and numbers the impact of extra bike weight. What is the scientific reason it matters. Don't just rant in words telling me I'm stupid, formulate a sensible response and some actual numbers.
  • 4 1
 @phutphutend: I'm with you. For 1KG extra frame weight, on a 15 degree grade climb, the component of weight draggin you back down the hill is only 250 grams. I doubt very much that anyone can notice that extra weight. Heavy wheels, heavy tyres with an aggressive tread pattern and low pressures will have a much bigger impact than a slightly heavier frame.
  • 1 0
 @SintraFreeride: t'es passé sur un stamina ?
  • 2 0
 If weight is a plus or a minus, the weight should listed...
  • 2 0
 @50percentsure: trances are badass
  • 2 0
 @SmithCreekCycle: Woah!!! Great guess from @flattire !! Nice weight psychic skills!
  • 44 4
 As an owner of a FlareMax, if this climbs worse and is heavier you may as well push lol Steel is really nice and compliant but it feels like you are dragging an anchor uphill - On the plus side it's made me man up and get fit again
  • 12 2
 Steel is the Cadillac of bicycles. Pretty much everything you expect from a Cadillac, a steel bike is. Heavy, comfy, slow, well put together feeling.
  • 38 6
 Can you really tell the difference in compliance between different frame materials on a full sus bike?
  • 13 0
 @HollyBoni: absolutely! I had a very stiff Empire and then a Marin before and compliance in the top tube is noticeable, the fork almost feels in synergy with the frame when cornering and on drops etc, very smooth indeed and very quiet, not harsh at all. I agree less noticeable in the rear but surprising in the front end
  • 2 0
 @HollyBoni: this is quite a nice vid of it in action with a reviewer who's quite passionate about them

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fweWB0wNzpw
  • 9 2
 @HollyBoni: yes, it's huge, even between carbon and alu.
  • 8 1
 @sewer-rat: Hmm. I'd love to test bikes back to back with alu, carbon, steel frames. Exact same frame design, same suspension design, same geo, same components, just different frame material. Big Grin
That will never happen tho. Frown
  • 2 0
 @HollyBoni: Not sure I'd necessarily be able to tell alloy and carbon apart. I can definitely feel the difference from alloy\carbon to a skinny steel frame though.
  • 11 2
 I think it's a myth that steel bikes are overly heavy. I have a Cotic Rocket, built up with a thought out spec and it really isn't that heavy. I weighed it at about 14.6 kg - right in the ball park of other aluminium and carbon enduro bikes. I'm quite happy climbing on it all day
  • 4 0
 @militantmandy: Full sus tho? My MTB is alu, my road bike and gravel bike are steel (super skinny tubing on both). Those are rigid bikes with small tyres tho.
I just wonder how much difference the frame material makes in terms of compliance when you have 2.3+ tyres and suspension front and back. Based on the comments I guess there is a difference. (When it comes to steel i'm careful and I take everything with a grain of salt, because I noticed that there are a lot of steel fanatics with pretty radical views, opinions Big Grin )
  • 2 0
 @RonBorger: I think I specced the wrong shock in all honesty for my intended use, I specced the cane creek double barrel and did not expect it to climb and move / bob so much. It was only once reading that the X Fusion bobbed less on this old news feed did I realise what I had done, even using the Cotic specific settings for the shock. I also contacted them and to be fair they got back to me straight away and I tried it (some further settings) yesterday with much better results, max LSC dialed in but I've also trained a lot (running, weights etc) got a lot fitter because of how difficult it seemed Beer

Either way I love the bike, it just climbs not as good as I'd expected (and I've been single pivot for yeeearrrs)

www.cotic.co.uk/news/2016/shocktuning
  • 1 1
 I have tried most steel FS bikes (owned both mentioned above) from the UK and nothing so far compares to the Morph FS in all round capability.
  • 2 0
 @HollyBoni: 100%. I've spent a good amount of time on a Starling Swoop and the differences to a stiff carbon bike and clear, especially in hard corners and off camber sections.
  • 1 0
 @700-pirate: How about Starling?
  • 2 1
 To an extent. I'm on a Stanton full suss now and it climbs way better than my YT Capra did. I think geometry and suspension design is more important than weight. Maybe if it gets really steep or technical the weight comes into play, but at 10-15% grade I don't think it has that much of an impact.
  • 4 0
 where is all this hate coming from, the FlareMax frame in XL is 3.3kgs, lighter than some carbon frames.
  • 1 1
 I'll just ride my DH bike for the win.
  • 2 0
 @HollyBoni: Here you go... using Knolly's previous gen Warden - nsmb.com/articles/duelling-knolly-wardens-final-verdicts

Just remember, Knolly makes very high end aluminum frames, not your usual big brand aluminum frame.
  • 2 1
 @RonBorger: how is it a myth? This thing is over 36 lbs before pedals.
  • 3 0
 @HollyBoni:
I would argue that you can feel the weight difference and hear the difference more than you actually feel the difference in compliance.
  • 4 0
 @HollyBoni: Full sus especially! The carbon builders have to make it really overbuilt to deal with the point stresses that enduro riding creates - steel just takes it all in stride. As a result its not significantly heavier - my murmur is 32lbs at xl with no carbon. Anybody else riding a carbon bike on the same trails I ride weighs about that much.

And the radical views? Thats just experience talking. Those views dont seem radical anymore. The steel builders have been at the forefront of the geometry changes that everybody and their mothers builders have adopted.
  • 2 0
 @Kramz: corners like a boat?
  • 9 1
 @zeedre: Oh i'm not calling out anyone here. But i've heard a lot BS from die hard steel fans over the years, especially on teh interwebz.
I noticed that steel can attract a certain kind of person that critizies everything and talks BS, sometimes with zero experience behind their "facts"/opinions (again not talking about anybody here).
  • 2 0
 @HollyBoni: You might get close testing the older Kona Honzos, ALU, Carbon, Ti, and a Kona Process 111 alloy. No carbon FS analog as the 111 was only made in alloy, but I can't think of any other group from the same brand.
  • 4 0
 @sewer-rat maybe it's just because I have ridden so many enduro bikes in the recent past, but I find my FlareMax to be a great technical climber. It really made uphills (especially nasty tech climbs) so much more fun for me and brought me back to the trials-type lines I used to enjoy back when I rode more xc-ish bikes. I am sure this is all relative, although I have spent some time aboard some lighter carbon trail rigs and while they excel at going quickly uphill, I find my FlareMax to be my favorite bike for riding shorter, super techy lines (think alt lines up heinous rock gardens.) The length and the planted-ness really seem to do well in these situations.

@HollyBoni I sure can. Aluminum feels dead-stiff and just very "standard" or neutral. Carbon feels more hollow and plasticy and maybe a bit more lively-stiff, and steel feels more solid and simultaneously compliant. I think I notice the benefits of the steel around bumpy off-camber corners (feels grippier than other frames, which have literally been built up with the same parts), but can somewhat feel less precise at times. (hopefully my made-up terminology here, like "lively-stiff", gets the point across, ha.) That all being said, I think a lot of it has to do with how things are built. I have had burly steel hardtails that, although they feel solid like a BMX bike, are every bit as stiff and chattery as a burly carbon hardtail (Transition Vagrant vs. Chromag Primer, both horrendously stiff. Chromag was maybe a bit less "chattery" but "compliant" was not a word I would use to describe either, whatsoever.) Get on a lively XC carbon hardtail and it will feel super compliant, relatively speaking.
  • 1 2
 @trialsracer: I wish I could dissect some insight from your longwinded incoherent and contradictory comment—it sounded promising at first—but then when you set up every descriptive phrase to cancel out the previous statement, I was just left empty, frustrated, underwhelmed and thirsty.
  • 1 0
 @trialsracer: I agree in some sense about the stability it's just the draggyness (yes I know that's not a word) on long climbs etc. My brother came up with a point I hadn't considered and that was the chain stay length, surely having mass further away from you on a climb (the wheel and tyre) makes it harder. If you were to drag a 20kg weight up a climb on 5M of rope logic dictates it would be harder than just pulling it by hand - I know it's a bit goofy that I complained about it but it's just not as efficient as I'd hoped and the clock don't lie either - and that's running a WTB trailboss on the rear, not the most aggressive tyre by any means.
I still stand by that I love the bike, it just doesn't seem that efficient (or didn't until I wound LSC all the way in, and built some muscle) as I'd expected
  • 2 0
 @Kramz: Steel is slow for you maybe (or maybe you're just slow? Wink ), but it hasn't slowed me down at all. The opposite if anything!
  • 24 0
 ever take it off any sweet jumps?
  • 21 8
 It's so heavy it doesn't take off
  • 14 3
 @zede: tell that to anyone who rides a dh bike
  • 11 0
 It's a sledgehammer... Dang
  • 10 0
 We deserve a bike check for Pedro.
  • 2 2
 @Civicowner: woosh *in heavy metallic voice*
  • 1 0
 @zede: that's the sound of my 16kg steel rig flying over your head after i send it off a jump Big Grin
  • 11 0
 That is a very nice bike! I'm wondering though how much of the sluggishness that comes down to the very heavy Hope wheelset? Hope makes some excellent components, but their wheels (or rims really) are way overweight compared with similar options.
  • 11 1
 A lot actually - I spec and build these complete bikes, the stock SLX spec (that this was supposed to be) usually has Hunt Trailwides and a slightly lighter cockpit. From memory I think they are 32lbs no pedals.

The XT spec gets 4pot brakes.
  • 21 7
 Agreed, bike weight makes bugger all difference. Adding 2 kg to a 90kg system (bike plus rider and kit) really doesn't impact climbing ability. Air resistance, rolling resistance, mechanical inefficiencies are all more important.

But adding 2kg to the wheels, rotating mass that constantly needs to be accelerated on technical climbs makes a massive difference.

Conversley, heavy wheels help massively with downhill stability.

I can't believe reviewers still don't understand this.
  • 6 2
 @James-at-Pedals: you could stock Hunt Trailwides. But the rims are made of chocolate and the hubs seem to be some kind of cheese
  • 1 0
 @James-at-Pedals: 32lbs without pedals is not bad at all. Maybe I should have bought one to match my Moxie Smile
  • 5 0
 @Madmanuk: My Endurowides have been absolutely perfect.
  • 4 2
 @militantmandy: First my freehub decided to eat itself and then after the warranty replacement finally arrived the rim collapsed. I think they're just cheap Chinese crap rebranded
  • 4 0
 @Madmanuk: Sorry to hear that. Mine have been brilliant and I've just bought another set for my new bike. My GF and her sister both run Hunts also with no issues.
  • 1 0
 @James-at-Pedals: Do you happen to know what the frame weigh?
  • 2 0
 Jesus I had no idea the Hope Fortus 30 were over 700g per rim... The Fortus 35 are actually much lighter
  • 3 0
 @overconfident: There seems to be a lot of confusion with Hope wheelsets/rims. They offer 3 different widths but each is their own model for different uses, 26mm + 35mm are Trail / Enduro whereas the 30mm model are beefed out for Enduro/DH, hence the weight.
  • 1 0
 @Caza1232: Ya, I realised that when I read the small print. They should really have had the *use* embedded in the names, like TR26, DH30, EN35 or something (not exactly that as they'd be stepping on other companies names)
  • 1 0
 @phutphutend: 2 KG is less important than aero? you have it all backwards.
  • 15 2
 1500 £ for a single pivot, heavy, no room for water bottle steel frame ??? Oh yeah it "Looks lovely" in the cons
  • 2 3
 Yeah and the larger version still has this stupid 420mm seat tube lenght. I wanted a Moxie hardtail back than, but with that ST lenght I can't even find a dropper that would have been long enough to not go over the minimum insertion mark and it would have looked super ugly anyway.
  • 5 3
 maybe ride it before you judge it Wink
single pivots aren't bad
  • 6 0
 @OneTrustMan: do you really need a 795mm seat height? 31.3 inches. Cos that's what you'd get with a 420mm seat tube and a 210mm oneup dropper at minimum insertion. When you add crank length, you'd need to have about a 38 inch inseam to ride that.
  • 7 1
 i used to be the worst for knocking single pivot bikes, but then i got fed up of changing 10 bearings every 18 months, and switched to a single pivot and love it. It doesnt have the "this trail has been tarmaced" feel or levels of grip, but you know where you stand, and its still just as fun. I kinda wish my Orange had an even bigger pivot bearing, one that made it a little bit heavier, but you knew would never ever need looking at.
  • 2 1
 @OllyR: best single pivot bearing I've ever seen was on an older santa cruz (heckler or bullit, can't remember which) and it was just a 24mm axle external bb.
  • 1 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: in a trip I met a guy with a homade bike, looking a lot like a BTR. His pivot was a Shimano theaded BB, simply genius.
  • 1 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: That was the Bullit, yeah i always wanted one of those, although upon further inspection most External BBs are caged bearings, as the bearing needs low friction over load capacity. There are only 10 or so balls in there, so not really a very suitable bearing a high load job. I think if you went with a hope one, which is full ball compliment, rather than caged, i think you might do better though.
  • 1 0
 @OllyR: the guy I saw was using a taper roller bearing bb for his. Practically indestructible, 5 year warranty on them (I got one after learning about them, I sold the bike with it on after 3 years and 4 different frames, hands down the best bb I've ever owned, shame they stopped doing them)
  • 13 1
 That looks almost identical to a Production Privee Shan No. 5 o_O
  • 4 0
 The M Shan No.5 has a reach of 453mm and the XXL a reach of 495mm, so quite different size wise really.
  • 2 0
 @commental: good to know, always thought PP bikes were perhaps a bit too short - they still look the same though Razz
  • 3 0
 @irollones: Agreed, I think I'd have owned a Shan GT by now if they did one with longer reach. At 6'2" their XL isn't long enough for my preferences.
  • 3 1
 @commental: agreed Shan's are stupidly short. At least here they improved the geometry of the No5 even if they did steal its looks
  • 3 0
 @irollones: my PP too short also Frown
  • 14 5
 Pro: Frame and suspension design wasn't compromised just to fit a water bottle. Good job.
  • 4 1
 Yeah, okay Chris Porter's echo.
  • 1 1
 lmao
  • 7 1
 i think the bad climbing is either down to heavy wheels/tires or straight up placebo, i ride a 16kg bike and have no qualms climbing. to think that 1kg in the frame compared to similarly specced bikes will make it noticeable worse at climbing is pure rubbish. bike + rider is 84kg, even a 1kg frame difference compared to alloy will be a lot less noticeable than so many other factors
  • 4 1
 Agreed. My (carbon) Nomad 4 is 16.5 kg and it climbs just fine. That includes DH/DD tyres and inserts. I guess if you're used to a much lighter bike, then it might be more noticeable.
  • 5 17
flag Civicowner (Nov 9, 2020 at 2:47) (Below Threshold)
 @militantmandy: if you did a blind test with a 16kg and a 10kg bike having identical weight wheels and tires i don't think anyone would notice
  • 6 1
 @Civicowner: You would, big time. I ride my gravel bike with a half frame bag and two bottles 99% of the time. Not a blind test, but if I go for a short spin around town with no bag and no bottles, the bike feels way different.
What I noticed between heavier and lighter bikes is that the difference is very noticeable at first, but after riding the bike for a while you kinda just get used to it.
  • 3 4
 @HollyBoni: that's coz of the handling not how it climbs
  • 1 0
 @Civicowner: Nah, the bike feels lighter and "peppier" everywhere for sure when I remove the extra weight. I don't think it's placebo, and the handling doesn't feel different.
But again, I get used to it pretty quickly and i'm not hunting KOMs so I don't care that much about weight.
  • 1 1
 @HollyBoni: the peppier feel is because of handling (not same as cornering). i am saying climbing speed difference is ultra minimal
  • 2 0
 @Civicowner: Okay, let's say it is. But you said that in a blind test you don't think anyone would notice a 6kg difference, yet when I take off ~2-2.5kg off my bike, it's really noticeable. Maybe it's because of different handling, maybe because of something else. Whether the difference is in handling or not, there is definitely a difference that I can feel. Time savings on a climb is another thing, haven't tested that (and probably never will).

But really, i'm not trying to argue about this. Strap some weights to your bike and see for yourself. Smile
  • 6 0
 My wife and I just partnered up with Pipedream to bring them to North America! We're pretty pumped. These frames are incredible, and the Pipedream team are all fantastic to work with.
  • 1 0
 congrats, i bought a moxie a few months back , nice frame nice people
  • 5 1
 I own a Starling Murmur and a Swoop and one thing i can say for sure is that weight isnt an issue!!! My murmur is specced with reliable parts and an EXT coil shock. Its about 16kg with single ply tires and I set many uphill PRs and smashed my PR on a XC trail that i set with the intense primer (top5 Strava even beating some ebikes). IMHO uphill performance and efficiency when sprinting has a lot to do with kinematics, the suspension setting and with chainstay length. Of course the rotating mass on your wheels plays a key role. My swoop isnt thet efficient on the uphills and when sprinting. It has the Topaz and shorter chainstays as well. I hope people stop bitching about weight in general and start using their brains. My overall system weight is 0,1t and a frame that is 1kg lighter is just 1 percent of the whole system weight. Moreover that 1kg is not rotating mass, its sprung mass that sits in the centre of the system, which only makes this bike more stable at speed. if you ride worldcup xc a reliable steel bike might not be for you. If you want a reliable do it all bike that is also forgiving and confidence inspiring get a steel frame with a thought out kinematic and longer chainstays, get your suspension tuned properly and choose your components wisely. And for all those weight weenies... take a dump before riding and check your diet. This has more impact on weight and your riding performance than the stiffest and lightest carbon frame that punishes you when the riding gets technical and rowdy.
  • 15 9
 im sorry, 36 lbs ?? sure you can spec it lighter but thats too heavy. at least the geo is dialed
  • 5 4
 (16.35kg) Is massive. I wonder how much the frame alone weighs. 5kg?
  • 9 2
 @viatch: Too heavy for who and for what??
  • 7 0
 This is a great looking bike but I agree with you on the weight, I've always stayed away from carbon bikes but trail bikes now are so big and burly that the metal versions are becoming so heavy especially in XL. Once you add 2.5 29ers, cushcore etc. They aren't really fun as trail bikes anymore, they are amazing at going downhill but my understanding of a trail bike is that it should be fun to ride on anything. It's a lovely looking bike, I just feel the trail genre has been pushed too far in the enduro direction probably to make us all buy down country bikes as well. I think that my 27lbs or thereabouts 26 inch aluminium Trek Fuel whilst being worse downhill, would probably be more fun and faster to ride on a trail loop than my current XL 29er weighing in around 35lbs
  • 3 1
 @justanothermatt: exactly, I tried to stick with a mate on his 2011 Kona the other week in Yorkshire, left me for dead on the climbs! The 29er sleds are getting big and heavy now
  • 4 0
 @justanothermatt: Cushcore and big burly tyres are not really helping for making a bike nimble. This summer I tried running lighter tyres (Ardent and Trail King), and only a huck norris in the rear tyre. Those are not superlight, but the bike changed a ton. But you obviously have to change the way you ride as well, I think most people have forgot how careful and smooth you had to be on the light trailbikes we all used to ride.
Loads of fun though, so next summer the hardtail will be set up on fast and light tyres Smile
  • 3 0
 @Olaal: Agreed, I think tires and wheels are where the sluggishness mostly comes from, then the weight penalty of bikes that are now massive. I always see trail bikes as the do everything sweet spot, they probably still are if they are full carbon. I'm probably going the same route as you with a light build trail hardtail, I'm yearning for some responsiveness.
  • 1 0
 __
  • 4 1
 Meh. My Hardtail is jus a smidge lighter than 35lbs, and it's just fine. Yeah, no rocket ship, but a fun bike on the trail - that's what matters. I don't go out to race, I go riding to have fun.
  • 1 0
 @viatch: 36lbs isn’t really that heavy for a full suspension 29er that’s not a xc race bike. My hard tail weighs in around 32lbs. There’s so much more to the bike than weight. I used to keep up on the climbs with a converted roadie with one of those 25lb xc race bikes on my 40lb free ride bike. He was losing speed trying to avoid any rocks larger than the size of your fist while I was just riding over them. Granted weight makes a difference but if your bike is dialed in, riding skill more than makes up for weight.
  • 4 1
 Seems like a performer as well as a looker, but spec it with lighter wheels and tires. Sluggishness from kitting it out with too much rotating mass does not have that much to do with the performance of the frame now does it..
  • 3 0
 "made it possible to scamper up the most challenging climbs"

"if you like ripping up technical trails the Full Moxie will frustrate you"

WTF? Which is it? Makes hard climbs possible or frustrates you? This whole thing is full of contradictions.
  • 3 1
 Could they not have snuck a side entry bottle cage under the top tube in front of the shock? Maybe bosses to for that Canyon double bottle? Shame you can't turn the shock back to front, as it looks like a bottle could easily fit where the piggyback is, but the shock yoke would have the piggyback in your calf :-(
  • 15 13
 "At 5’11” I tested the shorter of the two sizes, since the 470mm reach is in my preferred sweet spot for the trail riding this bike is designed for".
Yet you have completely ignored the fact, that the real perceived reach is a function of the number of spacers run under the stem, the HA and stem length and handlebar setback. So in fact you have no clue what is your preferred reach. It may be as well 460 as 480.
  • 3 1
 Fashion dictates 40mm stem and 800mm bars. Bar height is a matter of preference. So long as it’s in the ball park the fit changing 5-10mm in any direction is fairly easy for decent riders to adapt to within a kilometer or two.
  • 6 0
 Cool bike, and at that price it's a steel
  • 3 0
 Maximum recommended rider weight 100 kg (including kit, shoes, protection and hydration pack). ???

according to their website....
www.pipedreamcycles.com/shop/the-full-moxie
  • 2 0
 for the engineers out there - isn't it irrelevant where the change in sprung mass comes from? Ignoring center-of-gravity concerns, wouldn't riding a bike that weighs 5 pounds more be the same as bringing a 5 pound heavier pack with you on the ride? or weighing 5 pounds more yourself, for that matter..

so many riders are stressed about bike weight but couldn't it be mostly in our heads, seeing as how depending on the ride we might have nothing on our backs or many pounds of weight clinging to us?
  • 1 0
 if sitting and pedaling yes, but not when you need to move the bike around under you.
  • 1 0
 @iiman: yeah exactly. just curious about the basic premise that you're carrying more weight while riding uphill. if it is extra weight in the frame or just extra weight around your waist, it should amount to the same thing. this is not to address the dynamic differences between center of gravity, etc.
  • 2 0
 "flicking into the firmest setting helps on smoother climbs, minimizing any excess suspension movement without locking it out completely. Even in fully open mode, as desired for lumpy technical climbs, there’s no excess of movement from the shock."

What excess movement is the firm mode minimizing? Since allegedly there is "no excess of movement" even in open mode...
  • 2 0
 "balance is good, but as with many long bikes you do need to push your weight forward to get the front tire to grip and carve"

Sounds like the balance isn't actually great since you have to worry about managing front grip...
  • 5 0
 How does it Compare: Starling Murmur?
  • 2 2
 well it seems they copied it so i'd say similar
  • 2 0
 @Madmanuk: I would say i'ts more the illegitimate son of a Murmur and a PP Shan n°5...
But as an early owner of a Starling, I would add that there is quite a few differences : Reynolds & Colombus tubeset, bespoke geo, handmade in UK... Could make a different riding experience too.
  • 3 0
 @Madmanuk: no they didnt, i can see a shock yoke right there. similarities are that it's steel and a single pivot. that's like saying Process and Evil Wreckoning are the same bike coz theyre both carbon linkage driven single pivots
  • 2 0
 There's no way it will be as good as a Murmur.
  • 2 0
 @monsieurGamelle: yes it looks more like a Shan no.5 now I've looked
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: why not ? what makes murmur so special
  • 3 0
 @Civicowner: Tounge in cheek comment in response to Mr Phuts question above. However it would be great to see a shootout of steel sus bikes to see the differences.
  • 1 0
 I have no direct comparison but have recently swapped from the SC Hightower LT to a Murmur and i prefer the murmur hand down. More comfy, more stable at high speeds. It might be a little less chuckable but thats something you will learn and match over time. Climbing on it is loads comfier. downhill is great. Im sold ! Only downside for me was the bottle mount, so i got a hip pack with a bladder. Solved.
  • 1 0
 @poppagee: There are plenty of strap bottlemounts, works very well on my swoop. my gen 1.5 starling is a great bike but it has one flaw that really bugs me. if you sprint hard the cranks hit the chainstays, it also ate 2 shocks ( i cant proof the latter but i have not killed shocks in ages before). So overall mine is probably too soft for my 80kg
  • 1 0
 You may be interested in this group test.
enduro-mtb.com/en/steel-enduro-full-suspension-mtb-review
No Murmur, but close.
  • 1 2
 @optimumnotmaximum: The chainstay clearance on the cranks has improved massively from those early bikes, now with triple bend stays. Also, there are lots of riders way over 80kg with no issues. I think yours is one of the super early shed build frames that is a long way from where we are now!
  • 1 0
 @phutphutend: probably true, can confirm that it is a super early shedbuild.
  • 1 0
 The murmur has a slightly rising leverage rate at the end, meaning no progression .This moxie uses a shock yoke to try and get some progression and fall to the leverage rate, and it looks like it worked. I haven't ridden this Moxie, but my guess is that it will play nicer with coil shocks, and feel softer off the top when just pedalling around, but when you're riding serious trails the chainstays will be too short and the bike won't have that magic carpet ride that the Murmur has.
  • 1 0
 Whoops I misread the geo sheet, its the seat tube thats 420mm, not the chainstays. I revise my armchair speculation and I suspect this thing will shred better than the Murmur in many DH situations, mainly because of its more progressive compression curve.

The shock yoke will increase stress on the rear shock, and with the steel rear end allowing for even more flex I'm worried that it will further increase the rear shock stress. Thoughts?
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: i was thinking to myself: man this guy really has a strong opinion on these 5mm.

I have killed 5 shocks over the last 20+ years - One on a Hot chili singlepivot 1997, one on a GT DHI, one on a Salsa horsethief with shockyoke and a rearend that could be riddden way out of its comfortzone, two on my early Starling swoop. There were plenty of bikes in between and while many other factors may have played a role, I remain worried.
  • 1 0
 @optimumnotmaximum: Ya, several of my mates (me included) bought into the con that the 2013 Enduro 29er was Jesus's personal bike, and the best thing to happen to the industry since Rob Warner started commentating, but without a single exception we all blew up several rear shocks each, and I blame the shock yoke. I just realized thats a very long run-on sentence.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: they came with inlines !? - perfect combination shockyoke and first gen inline
  • 1 0
 I'm curious, why would this frame be more likely to break shocks (than some other linkage design)? I understand that a design where the shock is driven by a short link mounted to the frame (and the other pivot also mounted directly to the frame) might be slightly easier on the shock (unless the alignment is slightly off, which would make matters much worse) but aren't shocks designed to cope with this in the first place? I've got some rear shocks and they have a bearings there that allows for rotation around all axes. Don't all rear shocks have that?

Moreover, I doubt the rear triangle is even going to flex more than an aluminum design. Tubes aren't that much thinner as they need to fit between tire and cranks. So replacing aluminum tubes with steel ones within that same amount of space won't really decrease lateral stiffness. Even reducing wall thickness won't matter that much because tubes there are thin already. But that's my bit of armchair engineering. They may allow for a little bit of lateral flex at the axle end but that shouldn't necessarily imply that the shock mount is going to shift proportionally more too.
  • 1 0
 @optimumnotmaximum: Actually, none of them were (initially) inlines. Some were the stock fox float, mine was a monarch plus, another was the regular CCDBair. But yes, one guy "upgrade" to the inline and it met the same fate.

I actually wonder if the initial high failure rate was partially due to Specialized being the only OEM user of the inline at the time.
  • 1 1
 @hamncheez: how does shock yoke increase shock stress? unless it's on a specialized type design where the yoke is directly mounted to the shock, look how the rearmost eyelet is orented: vertically. so it allows some sideways movement as the rear end flexes compared to 2 horizontal eyelets like on Starling.

Yokes killing shocks on non specialized bikes is a myth imo
  • 2 0
 @Civicowner: Interesting thought. Its hard to tell if the possibility of rotation helps enough to reduce the stress of the longer beam. Hard to explain, but the rearend will probably not pivot around the rearward shockeye when flexing sideways. Long ago mtb -news actually tested how far it rotates while building the second communitybike, they wanted to make sure the shock can not go completely sideways. It turned out that the rotation is minimal.
  • 1 0
 @optimumnotmaximum: mine has the mount on the undeside of the top tube. Tried a Fabric cageless bottle which just leaked out. Must be something to do with the seals not liking being more horizontal. Hoping to try a similar system with no cage but pack is fine.
No rub under sprinting on mine, must have been due to early design as others suggest ?
  • 1 0
 @poppagee: mine -as all the early swoops- has none. i mounted an elite vip strapsystem in front of the frontshockmount. works without issues. a friend of mine has the sks system on his commencal, although i am not sure it would fit the starling frames due to the heigth of the system. As phutphutend ( Joe) said, the newer ones have more clearance on the chainstays.
  • 2 0
 @optimumnotmaximum: I've got an SKS mounted in front of the shock on my XL Murmur. It fits a 600ml bottle nicely and 750ml at a push.
  • 5 0
 Looks like a... full suspension hardtail.
  • 5 0
 Pros- looks lovely
Umm...?
Guess looks are subjective
  • 1 0
 More than just borrowing its name from the company’s hardtail, there’s a shared tubeset that has been developed over several years with no unsightly reinforcing gussets as is often the case with steel frames. The frame is made from custom-butted 4130 tubing - a shame not to get a branded tubeset like Reynolds
Sorry I'm confused. What tubeset are you using? Gussets are bad?
If it's a steel frame it's probably butted steel all decent steel frames are. I would call 4130 steel generic. If it's custom then tell us in detail why. Tripple butted? Yep there are old school mountain bikers that remember butting thickness , tube diameter, tube guage. Un like carbon fiber it's rather easy to explain the details of the frame construction. Hopefully your website is more informative.
  • 3 0
 I really don't understand what a steel full suspension bike brings to the table other than thin tubes and portlier on the scales.
  • 2 0
 "Steel is Real" feel aside:

I am sure someone will correct me if required but as far as I know, you can make (or have made) bikes in low volumes from steel far easier/cheaper than aluminium or carbon. This allows more flexibility in design and continual development if desired. They can also be more niche, the target market doesn't have to be massive to pay off any fancy molds or tooling etc.

Ultimately it comes down to what you want, if you want on trend geo, standard sizing or on a budget then there is nothing wrong with off the shelf Alu or Carbon.
But if you want or need something a bit different then there is probably a steel rig out there for you (or at least someone willing to build it you).
  • 1 1
 They exist because decent welders can build them with pretty basic manufacturing processes. If aluminum or carbon were as inexpensive to make in a one off fashion, I imagine that we would barely see steel frames.
  • 1 0
 This should answer your question a bit: (and show some nice examples of steel fullies ;-) )
www.singletracks.com/mtb-gear/europe-is-aswim-with-stout-steel-full-suspension-mountain-bike-frames
  • 1 0
 I have the hardtail Moxie with a carbon wheelset and full XTR (just to say that it isn't components weighing it down) and it is a bit sluggish off jumps. But I'm okay with that because it is so much fun to ride everywhere else. Even when it isn't the fastest climbing, the geometry just feels so comfortable, that there are very few times in which I'm not having a blast.
  • 1 0
 "The Full Moxie is proof, if it were ever needed, that geometry and suspension design are the most important when defining how a bike rides, not the material it’s made from." I'm reading this as: "despite it being made from steel, it's still pretty ok".
  • 4 0
 Thinking of you, Travis Bickle. RIP my friend.
  • 3 2
 Wow. This bike seems like a lot of work to ride up AND down. A UK based Orange Stage 5 or Stage Evo weighs at least 10 pounds less and the Cotic Flare Max I had was around 26lbs.
  • 3 0
 heavy with no bottle mount not even a small one for storage. Ya it weighs more than a DH bike.
  • 1 0
 How long ago did you do the photo shoot for this bike? I don't believe anywhere in the UK has been that dry for months. You must have been sitting on this review since September! Big Grin
  • 3 0
 if you weight more than 100 kgs (all equipment included)....you will never know.
  • 4 0
 Severe shortage of "pink bike" jokes down here so far, somebody plz help
  • 1 0
 "shame not to get a branded tubeset like Reynolds"

A tubeset that might require some of those "ugly" gussets? Silly to want a brand name even though it would take away something else that's good about the bike
  • 1 0
 Check out BTR's Instagram on how he feels about Reynolds. (Hint: He tries to persuade Columbus to make so proper mtb tubeset ;-) )
  • 1 0
 Leverage rate goes from ~2.3 to ~2.1 according to that graph. That's not very progressive, less than 10% change in rate. Looks nicely linear, so it'll be predictable, but not really progressive.
  • 1 0
 "it's predictable and will never catch you off-guard if you’re not paying attention 100% of the time"

Unless you don't weight that front wheel, because the balance is soooo good...
  • 4 1
 The new swarf 155 will poop on all the above bikes.
  • 1 0
 This single pivot suspension looks like a half-priced Dartmoor Bluebird. Steel makes it even heavier. Appearance of this bike is also controvertial. Definitelly niche...
  • 4 1
 of course it would be a Pole shilling dartmoor. One glance at the geo chart and they are nowhere near alike.

weight is just a number Razz
  • 3 0
 somebody please donate some chainstay protection or some spare tubes.....
  • 1 2
 "the weight of the Full Moxie does mean the climbing ability is tempered to a large degree"

"the extra weight probably helps a little here, and even in my most tricky local climbs the Pipedream just feels so calm and collected it lets you focus on getting the power through the cranks."

So which is it? Weight good or weight bad? Because you said both, but also mentioned that traction is super important...
  • 2 2
 "but you can go mullet if you’re keeping up with the latest industry trends"

Or... Maybe... you just got mullet if that's what fits you and forget what's "trending" or not.
  • 4 1
 cries in broke
  • 2 0
 Ahh I want one of these are
  • 1 0
 I'm a firm believer in steel, but not in single pivots. So this bike is a no no for me.
  • 1 0
 @davidarthur Great to see those trails in your photos! Plenty of variation there to test a bike for sure Smile
  • 1 0
 Are the chainstays 440(geochart) not 420(text).
420 would be out of Balance.
  • 1 0
 I wanted to changed a statement to a question, now i posted some weird grammar...
  • 2 0
 Yoke driven shock and no room for a water bottle= big fat nope.
  • 2 0
 Jet fuel can't melt steal frames!
  • 2 0
 I want one.
  • 1 0
 Doesn't have adjustable travel like the RM original.
  • 1 0
 I read pipedream the full "movie" review wasnt expecting that.
  • 1 1
 An extra set of squats and deadlifts during the week will help your issues about bike weight.
  • 1 0
 I thought „Popierdalam” for a while
  • 3 1
 Steel is real(ly heavy).
  • 1 0
 I though it was a bike video, i read it 'pipe dream full movie' my bad
  • 2 5
 "If you like ripping up technical trails the Full Moxie will frustrate you"

Well that's a shame, climbing tech is fun if you have a good climbing bike, clearly this is not that kind of bike, so then what's it good for?
  • 1 0
 Mind those knees!
  • 3 6
 Meh, it's 6 pounds heavier than an average mountain bike. I can pick that up with one finger, as probably can a good percentage of people.
  • 11 1
 unfortunately mountain bikes have wheels and is meant to be pedalled around.
  • 1 1
 @viatch: unfortunately it's only frame weight, and look at similarly specced alloy bikes and they are a lot closer weight wise
  • 2 3
 But how does it really compare? (Grim Donut)
  • 3 5
 Absolute Starling knock off
  • 3 0
 in what way? it has 2 wheels and is steel?
  • 5 0
 @Civicowner: it's not a starling knock off. It's a production privee shan no5 copy!
  • 1 0
 @bicycleconnor: This man is on the money. geo still different though
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